Broader Quarterstaff Rebalance suggestions

[balmy totem]

Currently, the weapon is tuned a bit oddly.
The ability to hold parry for 40 seconds is clearly overtuned, but the weapon as a whole is probably undertuned.
This weapon's closest competitors are the Heavy Mace, the 2hh(worse hm), and the War Club, so I'll be primarily using them for comparison.

Thematically, the quarterstaff is intended to be a powerful defensive tool and to allow players to survive in quite rough situations even if it doesn't have the ability to go slash crowds like a war club(fast, long).
To that extent, I consider its damage values fine.
Slash may be a bit too anemic on range, so extending just a bit would probably be good if only to allow qs players to catch more counters.
Stab range seems fine, maybe just a slight boost there.
Overhead is the bread and butter of the weapon and is still a great tool which offers qs its "dual-range" interactions.

Defensively, the qs is worse than heavy mace right now due to getting range diffed too hard(forces using heavy swings to chase or leaning too predictably into overheads, costing stamina) and only having equal stamina damage negation.
40 seconds takes too long to drain for "not getting hit at all" as well, punishing the use of drags too heavily against quarterstaff.
One thing to avoid is allowing infinite stamina on riposte as well again.

To that end, the most you should be able to hold parry for is probably 20-25 seconds, offering the qs what is still a uniquely powerful defensive tool, being able to "hold parry" and have it affect you half as much as other weapons.

Having drags be usable to punish holding parry on qs would also allow its stamina negation to go higher as well, up to a maximum of probably around 30% with its current tuning(if you buff slash and stab range probably max at 25% or so) before it becomes possibly too strong.

These are levers which could be pulled to make qs an interesting and still thematically powerful option in-game. Currently it's simply overshadowed by other options.

@fresh wharf you probably have ideas here

I've tried to be very conservative about my suggestions

[fresh wharf]

We are in a tough spot now. At the moment, there really is no reason to use this weapon compared to the heavy mace. My suggestion has always been put it on MAA, since then you wouldn't necessarily have to buff it. If you had that increased movement speed with the the decreased dodge cooldown, it would allow you to actually utilize the strengths of the weapon. Weapons do not necessarily have to be equal to each other in the context of the game because subclasses can make up for that difference. For example, the Glaive is a mediocre weapon on Poleman, but is much better on Raider. A similar exception could be made to the Quarterstaff by putting it on a more fitting subclass like MAA.

If you don't want to do that, then you'll need to buff the weapon because at the moment it simply is just a worse alternative to the other options on Knight. Crusader is not distinct enough. When a weapon is only available on one subclass, it is going to be compared to those other weapons. At the moment, the Quarterstaff is nowhere near as good as the other Knight options.

If I had to buff the weapon due to the developer's unwillingness to add it to MAA, I would reduce the 'held block' stamina reduction to 20 as you suggested but I would buff the stamina drain negation to 20%. It would be quite annoying for duels, but I don't see another alternative. I'm sure nobody would want the damage increased.

[balmy totem]

I think the higher stam negation even at 25 or 30 percent is significantly counterbalanced by the ability to force overhead exchanges in duels and thus extended parry holds for the qs user, as most players use weapons which can simply outrange qs. It'd make qs the most nightmarish weapon in the game for 1h players though lol.

[fresh wharf]

Anything would be better than what we have now. I do not like redundant weapons. I don't mind you for weapon is worse than another, but I do mind if it is a worse version of another

Like I said though, subclasses can circumvent this issue. It's okay the two-handed hammer is a worse version of heavy mace, because it's also on vanguard

But Quarterstaff cannot be as bad as it is now while being locked to Crusader

[balmy totem]

I also think something might be weird with the qs slash tracers since the patch but idk.

[median tusk]

Its a cool niche weapon that is fun in TO. Balance changes made primarily for duels should be avoided, this game does team combat the best compared to competitors.

[balmy totem]

both dave and I are prioritizing changes which give it a more powerful niche in teamfighting while toeing the line of not breaking duels even if the weapon isn't fun to fight in duel in a more powerful form. Your point? I don't see one.

[median tusk]

TO players dont have an issue with it. Only duel players do. You're arguing for making the weapon more homogenous with its counterparts and chipping away at what makes it special via nerfs. You say its "tuned oddly" but thats kind of the point in my eyes. There can only be so many combinations of speed, range, and damage. Having more oddities like the Katars and QS are cool additions in my eyes. It's like a 2-handed shield in TO, and you can play a support role on the frontline with it. It's unique and interesting in that sense.

[balmy totem]

I think your reading comprehension is failing you almost entirely.
The weapon is currently homogenized. Its stam negation value combined with poor range puts it in a niche explicitly worse than the heavy mace. 40 seconds is just simply too long to be able to hold block for and overly punishes the use of drags against it, so it allow it to be a reasonable powerhouse weapon having only half of the held parry stam drain rate of other weapons would help significantly and allow it to have a higher stamina damage negation value than other weapons, turning it into an unparalleled defensive powerhouse of a weapon.

Currently, the qs is simply the worst option of every option you have to take less stamina damage because it is both not actually in any effective manner more defensive, but also poor offensively.

I am a TO/LTS-first player. Nothing I've stated is untrue in TO.

if the qs were to be in a better place I'd hold it as a significant consideration for my "center" weapon in LTS, being the guy who crashes into the middle of the enemy team and somehow not dies for a significant amount of time while being a fucking nuisance, but right now I think heavy cavalry sword guardian is simply better with our existing class limits.

how comp LTS works is we don't really do subclass limits other than poleman, so it's more of a "have X number of knights", and it's basically between heavy mace, messer, ls, hcs, and qs as options for the way I'm playing

the qs doesn't do any relevant niche better than other weapons right now

[median tusk]

Well if youre going to resort to insults, have fun with your mald thread. 🤷‍♂️

Shoutout to the dude who as-salted this guy by holding block with Quarterstaff

[balmy totem]

I want the qs to be better overall instead of having a single stupid quirk because I want to have good reason to use it. I got a 100 kill game with qs and I want to have reason to go get more lmao

the 100 kill game was before ps+ and was also solo queued*

as is the weapon doesn't hit the peak of anything and doesn't offer good enough offense to offset that. Being "mediocre" in every aspect but good is how we get very strong and fun weapons like War Axe, but the qs is explicitly meant to be a "pinnacle defensive weapon" and it just isn't

the maul is a more survivable defensive weapon than qs is right now

[median tusk]

Held block isnt a quirk, you even just admitted it has a clear use of countering drags. It's a pretty clear part of its identity. It has 3 distinct attacks in its overhead, stab, and slash. Most weapons just have one thats slightly different in terms of speed/range/damage. I dont necessarily think its role is supposed to be "pinnacle defensive weapon" I think its just a defensive attribute that makes it stand out.

Homogenizing by giving it better stam negotiation instead of gutting something unique about it would just make it another counter-trade weapon. You definitely fight with it like a polearm, you want to keep people at a distance, not get in counter wars.

Honestly the only thing it needs is for the Q hitbox to not be trash. It would be the perfect weapon for mix-ups and the occasional frontline hold

[median tusk]

Objectively false

[balmy totem]

I've given it more time and heavy mace has better slashes, better stabs, better damage, similar or better speed, and overall a better actual in-combat stam game than the qs, meaning the only thing the qs has is a slightly longer overhead. That's better as in both same speed or faster, more damage, and a superior release window which allows for significantly more manipulation.
The quarterstaff is an stiff and specialized weapon with its niche surgically removed.

even the 2hh might be better on knight now

and that's just an obsoleted inferior to the heavy mace

[balmy totem]

@stable stirrup I don't think any more meaningful feedback is happening in here so it is what it is

[balmy totem]

As a specific suggestion to improving the slash while improving the readability of Quarterstaff, slide the quarterstaff toward the side(not as far as the special obviously) where the slash is taking place.
This accomplishes three things:

1. Buffing slash range
2. Improving slash readability by declaring sidedness
3. Distinguishing slash from stab

In regard to the special, I'm not sure what should be done with it other than that it ought be gutted as it's too anti-fun of a tool and prevents the weapon from being fun to play against. It's ok if the quarterstaff is challenging to play against, but it's painful to play against more than challenging for most players.