Skirmisher QoL Changes

[visual sorrel]

The Skirmisher could use a minor buff that makes it more enjoyable and allowed for more varied gameplay across its kit. As it currently stands, the Skirmisher gameplay can become stale and annoying to non-Skirmisher players due to the limited kit the subclass has to deal with. This is a list of changes that I believe would lead to various options that allow Skirmishers to enjoy the subclass more while not making the class overpowered. There are also a couple of nerfs I would apply which I feel are totally sensible.

• Buff Quiver (https://discord.com/channels/209841695850889226/1020438551118233661)
• Throwing Axes should have their carry capacity increased to 7 or higher
• Throwing Mallets should be a primary weapon option (with a carry capacity of 7 or higher)
• Javelins should not flinch VIP characters
• Javelins picked up by non-Skirmishers should have their carry capacity limited to ONE

Some may feel the Skirmisher does not deserve any improvements/buffs, but I was careful to ensure that none of the changes would make the class more powerful or more annoying. In fact, I feel the newly varied kit will cause more Skirmishers to experiment and find unique playstyles which most may find much more enjoyable to play against. The Quiver needs to be buffed because it is simply a terrible ability, and while I don't feel it needs to be powerful, it should be good enough to where you at least want to use it. Throwing Axes have always been underwhelming compared to Javelins, and while I do not feel they need to be as strong as Javelins you simply do not have enough to make up for all the benefits that Javelins have. Adding Throwing Mallets as a primary weapon is somewhat of a meme, but I also feel that it would genuinely be a very fun option in a class that currently has only two primary options, with only one of them being used. Lastly, the two nerfs I suggested are just sensible. I genuinely believe that VIPs being flinched is an oversight rather than a conscious decision by the devs. In regards to non-Skirmishers using Javelins, Throwing Axe carry capacity is reduced on non-Skirmishers. Why is it not the same for Javelins? What makes them so special that they don't deserve to function similarly?

/thread

[gusty bough]

Quiver does need changed for a special it is horrible. I think if you made the Javs resupplied by it have Flinch and increased your supply to 7 it would be perfect. But make it unable to resupply again until they (buffed Javs) are all gone.

This would allow you to take away flinch from the regular Javs and make your special desirable.

I doubt they could do this though.

[prime blade]

Buff quiver????????
7 throwing axes???????
7 throwing mallets??????

make skirmisher superheroes too to defeat everyone only looking at them

[visual sorrel]

do you believe that throwing axes are currently strong at all?

[bleak maple]

Throwing Mallets as a new option would be cool. And yeah Throwing Axes suck as a main weapon for Ambusher rn

[visual sorrel]

and yeah quiver sucks lmao

[visual sorrel]

which is fine. don't have to buff them at all just gimme more lol

[bleak maple]

Here's a bad idea : Throwing Knife Primary

[visual sorrel]

😔

[delicate moon]

I think giving archer a blunt stam smashing option is a bad idea

I also think mallet as a primary is...I don't know, too silly?

There's silliness in the game, but it's typically not in the kit

[latent prism]

Ah yes, the worse ambusher

[obtuse venture]

I just want the ability to use the sword as a secondary weapon. Skirmishers are usually at a disadvantage in IvX so having the extra reach would really help. The longest secondary skirmishers have atm is the falchion.

[obtuse venture]

you know, it's just javelins that cause problems in most games. The throwing axes are underpowered and the only good reason to use them is if you are a chad and prefer to mix melee into your playstyle.

Mallets aren't even that good either. They'd just be a meme weapon for added variety.

[obtuse venture]

the reason why throwing axe capacity is reduced for non-skirmishers is, to my knowledge, not a balancing element but a technical element. Knights who spawn with throwing axes carry them in their tertiary (3rd) slot, and have a reduced capacity. The game treats throwing axes as tertiary items for all non-skirmisher classes, which is why you can't pick up axes and place them in your tertiary slot as a skirmisher, and you can't have axes in your primary slot as a non-skirmisher class.

[bleak maple]

Mallets are pretty good tbh. Very fast, hits hard, throws decent, good stamina damage. Biggest downside is range. Not ideal for 1vX

[obtuse venture]

I agree.

I do believe mallets would be a balanced option for skirmishers due to their highly situational capabilities and drawbacks.

Skirmishers are the "melee" class at the greatest risk, and need to maintain a specific distance at all times which has much less margin of safety than all other classes in the game. By further reducing their range, that margin would be further decreased, and the likelihood of an enemy closing within melee range would be increased.

It is also worth mentioning that a single throw drains a lot of stamina.

[visual sorrel]

Yeah I secretly know that it wasn't intentional, but I'm just using it to a point as to why Javelin should be nerfed in a similar way for non skirmishes

[thorn vapor]

A javelin throw only drains about 10 stamina. If you throw javelins as quickly as possible your stamina will still fully replenish between throws

[delicate moon]

Test a heavy throw?

[thorn vapor]

Held throws are even more efficient because the stamina is drained the moment the throw starts. It still costs 10 stamina, and if you hold the throw your stamina will begin replenishing before the javelin leaves your hand

If you do a held throw at long range (around 40 meters or so), it's possible that your stamina will fully replenish before the javelin even hits anyone

Just did some more testing, throwing axes actually cost 50% more stamina to throw than javelins do

[visual sorrel]

this is fine to me although one could argue that the recovery should be a little faster

for throwing axes, that is

but it is an unnecessary change. I feel they are fine as is besides the capacity

[formal mica]

As someone who never gets to use Skirmisher because of the Archer limit, I'd really like them to remove the limit to Skirmisher

[obtuse venture]

axes can be thrown quicker (and they should, otherwise you should have picked javelins), meaning you can lose all of your stamina within seconds. Axe mains keep getting disregarded when the skirmisher class is discussed. I want people to realize that not all skirmishers are javelin throwers who avoid melee.

[obtuse venture]

that is strange. I never notice that and I am very confused now.

thanks for testing.

[delicate moon]

@visual sorrel and throwing axes take up more stamina per throw. Do they even do more damage than a javelin?

[thorn vapor]

They do less damage than javelins, even with the chop bonus

[delicate moon]

If it does less damage, and has a higher stam cost, I'd say it probably needs a better fire rate

[visual sorrel]

they throw faster, slightly

and they have one more carry capacity

if they had 7 I wouldn't complain

[delicate moon]

I don't think that's enough for having dramatically worse melee capability

Or I'm just bad with them in melee

[visual sorrel]

like I said Throwing Axes don't have to be equal to Javelins, they can just be a little bit better

at the moment they're so bad they're not worth choosing, but they can afford to be a bit better

[obtuse venture]

I prefer to use the throwing axes in melee because they can slash, allowing for nice mixups. However, the reach is so short that the enemy can sometimes unintentionally "dodge" you just by moving backwards

[delicate moon]

Playing throwing axes/javs so I have a better opinion on all of this lol

@visual sorrel Is 25% the damage bonus blunts have?

[visual sorrel]

Damage bonus differs depending on the class that you're attacking

[delicate moon]

Knight

[visual sorrel]

I'm fairly certain it would be 35% then

[delicate moon]

So, what I didn't realize, is that throwing axes have hitstop.

So this is an axe with hitstop?

[visual sorrel]

Yes.

[delicate moon]

Ok gimme a minute

I'm destroying, will post score later

The hitstop on this weapon is amazing

[visual sorrel]

Score doesn't mean much. If anything, the throwing axes can be better for getting score since you have an extra throwable and it still does enough damage to get you a takedown

[delicate moon]

Like this is one of the fastest recoverys

[visual sorrel]

I rather have the javelin

[delicate moon]

It seems really good for my specific playstyle so far

It's better for weapon swapping, I think

Throwing axes draw faster than javs I think

Anyway I've changed my mind on giving it faster speed for throws

Like, recovery

I think your buff so far is a good idea @visual sorrel

[visual sorrel]

Thank you. Like I said, it doesn't need much

Literally just give me one more, maybe two more

But I would be fine with one more

[delicate moon]

All I'm gonna say is I've gotten several triple kills

[visual sorrel]

They do not have to be on par with javelins. They can just afford to close the gap a little

[visual sorrel]

That's fine. In general the throwing axes are more tolerable to people because they can't one shot anything but an Archer

[delicate moon]

I think they're actually pretty good!

[visual sorrel]

Yeah they're just not much compared to the javelins.

[delicate moon]

They're able to kill multiple people/are more flexible

Javelins are better if you want to snipe people out/deal massive damage ocassionally

[visual sorrel]

I'm just talking about overall effectiveness. Javelins are much better but that's okay

[delicate moon]

What's awesome about throwing axes is the same reason why dagger + throwing knives are good with ambusher. I can fight one guy, and mid fight throw an axe at a wounded guy 50 meters off, kill him, and finish off the guy I'm fighting

I need to clip this shit

Stay posted (not really do whatever lol)

I'm doing shit javelin simply can't do

@visual sorrel

[visual sorrel]

That's good. One of the strengths of the throwing axis is being much more effective at anti-archer

[delicate moon]

Also kills in melee really fast

lol I like dagger so it's pretty similar

[delicate moon]

@visual sorrel Maybe stam drain on throw should be lowered, just to make throwing axes more flexible

Feels like you should be baiting people into missing to throw at them at around melee range

[visual sorrel]

No, like I said they're fine the way they are. Also, I don't think you can change the stamina cost of throwing them without changing the stamina cost of throwing them on Knight

Just a simple bump from 6 to 7