PAC HE-shock buff

[balmy kernel]

as we all know there is no point in using HE-shock over impact. i think it would be a nice buff to make HE-shock good on weak armor like wood/stone. the Impact/pierce meta would still hold up so people won´t get upset. it would just be niche for early game PACs and it would help new folk as their first instinct is usually BOOM=GUD

[frosty delta]

that is its points HE is good against weak blocks w/low AC

[glossy pecan]

^but I do agree it's kinda weird for PAC to have HE despite access to impact

[mental heron]

The issue is that nothing outside of DWG uses wood, and against DWG PAC is easily the worst weapon type
All its upsides don't matter against almost everything DWG

I would instead give explosive PAC a small HESH effect

[eternal kiln]

im a new player and fast shells= good and so is big booms

[balmy kernel]

PAC is fine as a 1 shot 1 kill gun against DWG

[thin talon]

past a certain size, HE PAC beats impact against alloy and metal

apparently it never catches up against HA though

*in terms of damage done. Impact leaves fewer blocks partially damaged so it might actually kill more blocks

[hybrid light]

OW sail and hybrid vessels use wood situationally. Including wood decks in the latter

Though they might not be wood through and through

Some WF ships also use wood iirc

Especially Zealot ships

[mental heron]

Still the same issues
They don't really have any active defenses or evasiveness for PAC to make sense

[tribal zephyr]

Wtf is HE-shock

do you mean HE

[delicate kindle]

In pac its called explosive shock

[tribal zephyr]

Either way HE is stronger than thump

Idk which delulu world it isn't

unless you're doing low damage

[delicate kindle]

Isnt it the exact opposite for pac

[tribal zephyr]

go on

test it

if you don't believe me

[delicate kindle]

[tribal zephyr]

Aim for damage minimum 30k

but generally more like if you're going for 100k damage

you'll see HE always does a lot more

the closer to those higher number the better

HE can do up to 50-60% more damage

which is the difference between a 600k mat vessel and a 1mil one

[delicate kindle]

I mean raw damage sure but impact just always uses all its potential damage

[tribal zephyr]

Also HE slips through crevices and can remove sensitive bits

[delicate kindle]

He is a gamble in pac as far as my prior testing

It does better against non armored enemies whereas it does more at smaller scales generally speaking

[thin talon]

I was testing my PAC bomber against various Neter craft and I always got better results with HE once I hit around 200k thump-equivalent (so like 50-100k actual damage), but then someone tested the same against Neter craft that are almost entirely made of HA and said HE never surpassed thump. I didn't see their numbers though

in terms of pros and cons other than raw damage, HE can slip through crevices as you said but thump also finishes off more blocks rather than leaving them partially damaged

though having lots of partially damaged blocks can sometimes help other damage types hit higher damage numbers

[balmy kernel]

its well established that HE-shock is underpowered and useless against anything more than a shrike

[tribal zephyr]

established by who

reddit doesn't count, community is too small there

[tribal zephyr]

So basically your info confirms the truth

[balmy kernel]

everyone

not just reddit

[tribal zephyr]

wut

lol

[balmy kernel]

ask any of the pros here

[tribal zephyr]

Beyond 50k HE starts to trend towards 50% more damage

plus extra damage underwater

plus slipping through holes it punched to get extra internals

[thin talon]

doesn't thump get the same buff underwater now or is that just APS

[tribal zephyr]

Ehh idk

Either way slip through plus extra damage makes it worth it

I've tested vs my own vehicles and watched thump fail where HE just wins

Oh right, also forgot the extra damage HE tends to do with subobjects

If the subobjects are overlapping and together

and the fact thump will only damage one which tends to work against it

[balmy kernel]

@sly yew @radiant tartan @delicate kindle could you put your opinion on this tocip here? yall have much more expierience than we

[delicate kindle]

Its more of where said shot hits

And the target its fighting

[tribal zephyr]

Sure, what you're trying to do also matters

But my argument is HE has plenty situations where it's good

buff HE pac by even 20% and you will almost never seen thump again.

Like lmao.

except for spam thump larping as pierce

[thin talon]

it'll still be good for smaller craft that can't hit the necessary threshold. but that threshold is not very high

if any changes were made I'd prefer if they made the choice more interesting

[delicate kindle]

Why did ping arti

[tribal zephyr]

Idfk who any of these people are

[boreal needle]

"Than we" lmao. Knife (currently the Cooler Violet) is a person of note for actually testing shit (and finding new stuff! Such as that LAMS was straight-up busted!); these are two "pros."

[balmy kernel]

sry, didnt recognise the new name

[balmy kernel]

why not? he build fricking LH

[delicate kindle]

I do too

But i was making a joke

[balmy kernel]

and did i ping u?

yeye ik

[thin talon]

I'm still curious about what the other guy found who said HE doesn't catch up against mostly HA targets

[old thorn]

huh

if you ask high skill players about it the big question from them would be: why are you using pac

[delicate kindle]

AA

[balmy kernel]

fair

[balmy kernel]

cant you just use lasers for that?

[delicate kindle]

Lasers arent volume efficient

An AA PAC can be like 3 blocks long

[balmy kernel]

but they r cheaper and dont explode when damaged, no?

[delicate kindle]

Not for the same effectivity at range

Again an AA PAC can be effective at 3 blocks long

[balmy kernel]

is lasers better if you have some spare space and an enemy over 30k?

[delicate kindle]

Its more likely to work generally

For pac its to hit the thing with EMP and hope it dies

[radiant tartan]

TRUE

[radiant tartan]

My experience with impact vs explosive pac is Impact > HE. UNLESS the HE is hitting internal areas, then HE dmg potential is higher than Impact.

Example, HE pac is usually much worse compared to Impact when fighting uninjured vehicles. Mainly due to the fact that HE exploding externally is the worst case scenario for HE. While Impact does not care and uses up all of the damage potential it has.
On the inverse, if the battle has gone on for a while, HE would do better generally because there would be more holes and bits more exposed that HE is better at. Like if HE explodes internally, it gains alot more damage bonuses like containment, more damage due to hitting less HP blocks (HE does more damage if it does more than a certain % of the target hp), and usually internal areas have less AC so HE would do better. HE also generally has better damage profile

Anyways, thats my experience with HE vs Impact PAC

[radiant tartan]

😔

[delicate kindle]

[sly yew]

depends on target both are shit generally tho 👍

[sage osprey]

"Cause it looks cool" or "It was required by law"