Adding:
There is a relationship between both 'dynamic' and 'static' data, for example a Town Hall's label (e.g. 'Allsight'), and the position of the Town Hall structure itself; however they do not share the exact same x/y positioning.
#code-talk
hollow gyro
pure sierra
You need to say specifically to match one against the other you must loop through all labels and find the closest
hollow gyro
Have re-worded the bit you referenced:
Combining this with World Extents allows you to have a highly accurately proportioned hexagon, and positioned structures/items within; however it is not a blocker for generating a graphic of a hex.
pure sierra
change 'a blocker' to 'necessary'
also maybe mention that "Region Zones" are calculated with Major map markers and Hex vertices location and Voronoi math
hollow gyro
I have not implemented either of those, you're welcome to add a section if you like
pure sierra
Id rather you just do it for me 🙂
just say what i said, the main key word missing from the api docs is Voronoi which needs a mention
hollow gyro
Not sure where to fit that right now, maybe another day.
If you want to DM me some resources for them, I could learn it and then be more confident on what to write about it.
pure sierra
just as a section after flags
you dont have to say anything more than,
To calculate "Region Zones" (control sectors within regions) use Major map marker and Hex vertices locations with Voronoi math.
hollow gyro
Enlistments - Is that the unique number of players, whole war, or total deployments.
e.g. if I login to 1 Region once, and another twice over the war, will they be [1, 1] or [1, 2]?
pure sierra
its the number of unique players to have played on that map in that war
hollow gyro
Cool, so [1, 1]
hollow gyro
Yup, got that:
Note, the enlistments here are unique players per map as per the API; a player deploying to two regions will count to both's 'totalEnlistments' value; therefore totalling the enlistments for all maps would not report unique players for the war, but significantly more.
Changes uploaded.
Voronoi another day
Your feedback is appreciated @pure sierra thanks
pure sierra
seconday one
hollow gyro
seconday one
Huh?
pure sierra
missing r
hollow gyro
Gonna have to be more specefic than that @pure sierra
keen dawn
That should fix it
glad whale
long raft
i wonder if the best approach is correlate 3 regions, and then base everything off of those 
that seems like the simplest way
still gotta sample the height along the borders at every border, but the algebra is trivial
makes me think just 3 points along the same border might have enough variation to correlate them even... hmm
pure sierra
this is neat
summer bobcat
pure sierra
@glad whale so how hard/likely will it be for you or us to update these as the game maps change ?
@torn pike did you see post above by rust
torn pike
Thx
pure sierra
i think that is what you are looking for
long raft
my calculator figured out all the algebra. this thing seemed like a waste of money until now
hollow gyro
@neat fossil
pure sierra
my calculator figured out all the algebra. this thing seemed like a waste of mon...
which?
long raft
ti nspire cx ii
long raft
Height maps: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1379YvpOCZULLPVVXFT5j1XsyMpQ...
Odd request, but do you have these uncropped? The overlap is useful for correlating points
long raft
thanks!
neat fossil
<@456226577798135808>
thanks
lost pier
is there any way to get tech information from the api or any website?
pure sierra
is there any way to get tech information from the api or any website?
not from api, but possibly from user submitted data on a faction specific site/discord
lost pier
do you know of a discord or site that would have that?
hollow gyro
is there any way to get tech information from the api or any website?
The Tech Tree is faction private, and is frowned upon for it to be leaked to the other faction.
Other than that stats on tech like DPS is not public available and is datamined/tested if anything.
lost pier
The Tech Tree is faction private, and is frowned upon for it to be leaked to the...
im only interested in curriently unlocked tech for both factions which is not private because whenever something gets unlocked on both sides it tells you in a nice little dialog box in game.
hollow gyro
im only interested in curriently unlocked tech for both factions which is not pr...
It is private because that "nice little box" only shows for the faction that unlocked it.
The only way a Colonial can know the unlocked tech of Wardens is leaked information, or witnessing the item itself (plus word of mouth).
long raft
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ix-IsQUuBbIY2F9vfHhaHolK9rHSE9mR/view?usp=shari...
I am curious are we losing precision going from (I thought) a 16-bit height value to 8? I can't help but notice so much of the height is the same value, theres a lot of 128 around the borders which would make sense if thats there 0 point, but there is so little variation, it's like everything has been rounded
also im having trouble lining them up with the normal maps. my assumption is there is 200 pixels buffer on every side
pure sierra
im just working on mine too
long raft
its not going as smoothly as i hoped, i derived the math, but i can hardly find 3 different values on a border to correlate together
made a program to sample the border points and spit them out, but theyre not aligned
pure sierra
are you trying to normalize ?
long raft
yes
pure sierra
do you think its possible to find a fixed offset per map ?
long raft
i sure hope so, i need to find 3 shared points on a border for 2 maps to do it
they have to be 3 different points, and its 3 because im assuming these are quadratic
maybe im just not lining the maps up where i sample them. but i couldnt help but wonder if the height was in the G and A channels then it should be 16 bit but this grayscale png is only 8 bits
pure sierra
could be something simple like that
pure sierra
need to get @glad whale input on it, he did offer the scripts, likely you should get a copy
long raft
but yea theres not a lot of variation on a single border, so i fear there will be significant rounding errors
long raft
where do you crop them at? looks like you have stuff lined up pretty well
pure sierra
long raft
feels like less variation than last time doesnt it?
pure sierra
2 sec
pure sierra
seems better yes
im not going for 100% detail
as i resize the height maps down to 1024x888 and crop and mask before tiling and do contour
but could be done at full rez if i wanted too, but for my needs not necessary
long raft
i feel like we might be dumping precision, which i would want more of for normalizing
also everything just looks very flat now
which matt totally warned was the case
pure sierra
old new
pure sierra
let me run a contour on the 'raw' map sent from rust b4 i work it
long raft
im hopeful rust can dump it in 16 bit glory
pure sierra
you know the maps i got say 16 bit
pure sierra
long raft
you are too?
pure sierra
thats all there is
pure sierra
they have been saved that way, but i guess it doesnt mean the data is actually there
long raft
windows reports 64 bit depth wow
i did not know png could do that, gonna google
wow legit 16 bit
awesome, ok ill make adjustments in how i open them
and where are you cropping them at? i dunno where exactly to ...center them
they seem like theyre all offset unevenly
long raft
i dont really need to resize but i will need the crop
the size is 2395
so I crop to 2236 wide?
and 1776 tall?
pure sierra
prev maps and new maps.... def detail loss
long raft
looks ... totally different in shape
long raft
is that DL?
oh ok
well maybe rust can tell us more about the precision
seems like i have something more to work with tho now
pure sierra
so the original ones report 16 bit too
lunar cobalt
the new maps are more correct I believe
long raft
i wonder if the devs have been normalizing them and redrawing them, i dont even notice it in game
or maybe theyre flattening stuff actually, for building mechanics
lunar cobalt
would make sense
pure sierra
that did cross me mind (that matt may have been at work)
long raft
it would make total sense, also i would expect to notice it
lunar cobalt
the maps tend to be "flat area -> height step -> flat area" rather than "ramp"
long raft
the gradients are awful for bunkers eh
lunar cobalt
yeah and just general overhead camera stuff
long raft
or the height maps are normalized but then scaled in game display ...
pure sierra
but theres just no data there in some places, not just a lack of change
long raft
what do you mean
long raft
oh right
hmm ive been doing a ton of scaling work lately, it never occurred to me somebody would want a mathematically correct image scaling method before now, but for an application like this it would be useful
the high quality image scalers use what is more visually correct than mathematically correct. they try to avoid 'ringing' because it looks bad
i guess you could just use bilinear in this case and get away with it
pure sierra
i just thought of something @long raft
my contour program is only creating steps in increments of 1 from 0-255 (8 bit) but when i go over the map with picker it shows changing detail with decimal values, so 16 bit ?
long raft
sure seems like it has extra precision in there
pure sierra
my countour plugin would be ignoring that
long raft
in my program i think i will have more control than paint.net allows me
youd have to convert them all to another format i would think
realistically they should be treated as floating/fixed point
pure sierra
my countour plugin at most adds a line every 1 value change
long raft
and it only works with 8 bit?
pure sierra
as its a plain text script plugin i can likely change it
but could there be a way to scale the 16 bit to 8 bit without data loss ?
long raft
if you ... normalized it? like the min -> max range
but it would still incur some precision loss, and it would look wrong
pure sierra
script
long raft
oh the contour script
its for gimp? but gimp is already using the precision correctly, right?
long raft
not sure where it loses precision in that
pure sierra
so the gross change it wont loose, but it will loose the fine detail in between
if its only drawing lines every whole number change
long raft
yes, but where...
long raft
i dont see any rounding or casting to integer values
and the height range is still between 0 and 255 even though it has 16 bit precision
so the math should be the same
perhaps the smoothing amount is too much
pure sierra
i could try that on 0
long raft
is this python? im not familiar enough to be able to spot a rounding
pure sierra
i think its python but not 100%
long raft
god it looks like ... haskel or something
pure sierra
it might be native
long raft
gimp script o_O
pure sierra
there is a python console as well but i think that seperate to script-fu console
its called scriptfu
long raft
i wonder if it creates an 8 bit pixel depth layer
(theLayer (car (gimp-layer-new theImage
(car (gimp-image-width theImage))
(car (gimp-image-height theImage))
RGBA-IMAGE "Contour Map" 100
NORMAL-MODE)))
)
maybe RGBA-IMAGE is inherently 32bit pixels
long raft
i cant find the docs on it
pure sierra
that is your interval
long raft
perhaps the seperation value should be /256
pure sierra
would it not be /10
to add a decimal
essentially trigger by 0.1 change rather than 1
long raft
no, its 8 bits of precision
2^8
to get your value youre doing x/(256-1), but it should be x/(65536-1)
its binary, not decimal
pure sierra
(in gimp afaik you cant have layers of different precesion, its image wide)
problem could just be that the widget to pick the sep only allows whole numbers but i can easily tweak that
pure sierra
so while i was able to make it calc every 0.1 difference i still ended up with pretty much the same picture
it took much longer so i know it was different
maybe theres just only so much space for a 1 pixel line
you cant draw 2 lines in the space of 1 ...
long raft
maybe you can shrink the line weight
pure sierra
i did
long raft
oh maybe you should leave it the same
pure sierra
i did 1 px lines
languid harness
prev maps and new maps.... def detail loss
I wouldnt call it detail loss but rather better playability. The region can cause quite a headache with its slopes. You can see they have flattened most playing terrain. As for the hills, they are covered in rocks anyway, so little care has to be taken there
pure sierra
i agree its a good thing, its just at the time i thought it might have been a problem with our map aquisition.
pure sierra
and maybe even a result of our original topo maps, as it generated some talk about how bad it was to build in for example great march @languid harness
languid harness
Ah yeah, I hadnt read the whole talk, just noticed those maps and commeted what I saw beside it 😁
long raft
ok will try it myself
im wondering if my methodology will ever work for this, i am finding it difficult
just finding 3 matching points on borders that are supposed to be already aligned, e.g. I deadlands/marban is difficult
im seeing the 16 bit precision tho
perhaps its just a scaling issue
long raft
for all the regions that arent normalized the same i need at least 1 shared border, with 3 different values on the border
i cant use the height data if its isnt unified, frankly
i would happily pay $100 if i just had all the scaling values for each region lol
hardy crane
Is it possible to get a higher res version of the topo map? This is incredible, and I'm in awe at the work that's gone into it
long raft
this is what i have
long raft
wow hayden that crop width looks fantastic
hardy crane
this is what i have
this is the one I'm workin with =\
long raft
this one is cropped to the specs hayden said, he posted his script fu gimp script for making the lines although i dont know the exact settings, but you could remake it higher def
pure sierra
@hardy cranecan do the contour at higher res than i did , but not the basemap, though we can just enlarge/zoom it and its still looks about the same
@long raft once i correct my reduction i got rid of those black lines between
1124px
thats just at standard api rez
long raft
i still feel like... the texture is shifted by a small amount vertically
probably horizontally too 
i realize some missing textures in the water isnt a big deal generally but it jsut seems .... i dunno ...
i keep pulling bad samples its very difficult to sample points around the borders
also you know would be nice for the topography - add the satellite map as a layer, use it to select all the pixels the color of water, and delete them from the height map before doing topography
so that below sealevel stuff doesnt show up
plush bolt
is it possible to use higher res map files than the default ingame
pure sierra
Im not sure they are available anywhere
long raft
skaj would know...
pure sierra
only option would be if they in the pak
long raft
he took the unprocessed, reprocessed them, they are 4x the size
not sure if he had to rescale them back down
i assume its a texture so 0.0-1.0 is still the same regardless of size
pure sierra
lmc in game
so i just checked it game
and the map seems pretty similar to the api ones
so id say there arent better ones available @plush bolt
plush bolt
oh i didnt mean the original map I meant using any higher res texture ingame
mossy pelican
ingame map is not high res at all
pure sierra
oh i didnt mean the original map I meant using any higher res texture ingame
are you talking about textures or cartography maps ?
long raft
oh jeez i misread
yea i would think in theory you could replace textures with higher res
plush bolt
replacing the low res map used ingame with anything higher res
long raft
i dont think anyone has
pure sierra
but how would you get a high res map ?
plush bolt
hypothetically it could be anything
pure sierra
but anything wouldnt line up ?
mild sphinx
Yo @pure sierra, im the one from Reddit who is trying to 3D print the map. You told me to ping you
pure sierra
@mild sphinx
this is the height map i generate the countour lines from
we can get the a higher rez version in time if you need
but one thing you might have to deal with is that some of the regions are 'scaled' differently than others
an extreme example of this is the lighter segment you can see middle right
lunar cobalt
and the darker farranac
land colors appear to be somewhat the same, but water colors are different for basically every map
pure sierra
@long raft is working on trying to normalize programatically them but im not sure its worth it or possible, maybe just by eye it could be done if we had a 3d model of it
long raft
i could at least make a program to do the adjustments ... hmm
i wonder, is there any way to go to the maps themselves and correlate any heights? and the bias/offset could be eyeballed
pure sierra
long raft
like survey the maps in person, and relate that per map
pure sierra
thats what im thinking
long raft
and pray its linear
pure sierra
im going to try getting it into blender
long raft
no i mean playing foxhole, calculating something known
pure sierra
ha, playing foxhole.... how you going to measure height in that
hard enough to even see it
long raft
im not sure how but ... yea
lunar cobalt
Well we know areas where they should be the same
long raft
maybe over a large distance
pure sierra
cv for scale
long raft
using binos? it might reveal the altitude difference
lunar cobalt
like go to the same road crossing on both sides and base it off that because those should be the same altitude
long raft
we need 2 points involved
assuming its linear
so like how tall a mountain is
im not sure if using binos like surveyor equipment would work. based on altitude difference your max bino distance is different
maybe its consistent enough to measure elevation differences
long raft
mild sphinx
<@!305790502303825922> https://www.instructables.com/Converting-Map-Height-Data...
Thanks for all this, im going to trying to print it soon sometime this weekend. I use a resin printer so I can get some fine detail as well, only problem is the plate size is small so it can only be a small scale version
hollow gyro
"Get that to Tabletop Simulator" 😀
long raft
i wonder if the river bed can be used as the scale
like from sea level to the baseline water in a region
pure sierra
that thought has crossed my mind
long raft
its interesting it doesnt go to the bottom
pure sierra
extreme scale difference
long raft
that one just looks offset by .5
mild sphinx
Yeah I couldnt get the command prompt to work for the STLs, but I used a different program and saw how crazy some of the height differences were
I just got this warden highlander off the printer
long raft
mild sphinx
Maybe if we found a way to smooth out the map so its not so sharp (probably in blender) it would be easier to print the model
More like the topographical globes you can buy that have texture. Its not exact but more of generalization
pure sierra
i loaded just godscroft and tempest next to each other as seperate mesh
tweaking the strength (height) on godscroft to 85% so the water was even, you can see the land still way off
so not linear
lunar cobalt
Or the land and water have different offsets
Especially since for the islands each "land" is a different world mesh apparently
Also, it's gonna be 3d print only, because making a CAM path for a mill from a STL / 3d mesh is pain
pure sierra
i just would love to see this 10m x 10m
but printing each region more resonable and fitting them together
lunar cobalt
If we can get the model to be a lot smoother (and I can get enough money for that much material) i have access to a 5'x8' CNC router
But that's a LOT of time on the router and a lot of money in material and endmills
pure sierra
smoothing is not issue, as i did not do that step yet
ok heres some wierdness
so i was able to tweak godscroft height texture contrast and brightness, contrast would compress or expand the height while brightness would just raise or lower the whole map
i tweaked the values until the sea and ground was level with tempest... easy enough, but then wtf the other part of land top red circle is not level !!! 
🤷♂️ 
im guessing this is related to the islands issue where even within a region segments are put together by rust
@long raft
lunar cobalt
yeah each island is scaled differently I guess
I guess you could edit the mesh itself? Just grab the points and raise them?
long raft
yeah
my stitching program will let me scale them, if i knew how much to scale them
but yea, if you had 3 samples and the scaling model is quadratic you can solve it, or if its linear then you just need 2 of those points
youre visually doing what i was doing in excel heh
its very easy to see what the samples are there visually...
pure sierra
would it be possible to just get the highest value and the lowest one (other than black )
and use that as a way to compare them and scale them to a standard
though would not work for maps with no water
long raft
yea i could try to analyze that
i dunno if we will find exact numbers
the ones i should ignore are 0.00?
pure sierra
yes as black is like alpha
long raft
i hope its true 0
long raft
would it be possible to just get the highest value and the lowest one (other tha...
can do 0-1 floating point if you prefer
i figure nothing under water matters but i didnt ignore underwater stuff for these
hollow gyro
Dev Man Bad? 😄
dull aspen
I just got this warden highlander off the printer
that print is so clean jesus christ
mild sphinx
that print is so clean jesus christ
Yeah, Resin printers are amazing! I have a filament printer that rarely gets used now just cause of how nice the detail is and the lack of print lines I get with this new printer
dull aspen
yea man thats like night and day compared to a filament printer, i always wanted to print videogame guns and vehicles and it was just too complex to make it look good
dense fog
Hey guys not sure if this is the right place for this, but I'm looking to get my hands on the map icon files for things like bunker bases so I can manipulate them on an image/video. does that sound possible?
flat estuary
@twilit wave has access to some icons i believe?
dense fog
awesome thank you!
mild sphinx
wanna have the bonewagon files?
sweet yeah! I've been trying to find more models but only found the one so far
want a collie vehicle so I can make a nice diorama of them engaging in combat
long raft
what printer do you use? it indeed looks like a very clean print
also curious which resin
i tried printing a BT before and it came out like crap
reef kelp
try to reduise the scale of godcroft
pure sierra
i did
reef kelp
until the sea floor and the ground are at the same level
pure sierra
keep reading
reef kelp
you don't need to edit the image
pure sierra
it will mostly work, its just a matter of doing them all.....
reef kelp
you can do it whit blender
pure sierra
i dont edit the image
i adjust the contrast and brightness of the texture in blender
then once its all done you could re-export a corrected height map
pure sierra
contrast expands or compresses the height
reef kelp
edit an image is a way to introduice error
pure sierra
i dont edit the image
reef kelp
you edited the contrast
pure sierra
i use blender
reef kelp
load it whit the same parameter
that's what i'm talking about
edit only after the poly
by incising it size
or reducing
the way it read a heigth map is not linear i think
it can introduce error
mild sphinx
what printer do you use? it indeed looks like a very clean print
Elegoo Mars 2, elegoo brand standard resin - grey
long raft
do all your prints come out that clean?
pure sierra
playing with the poly is more likely to create errors as you dont have standardised controls to do it and show adjustments
long raft
if you know the scales/offsets of each region i can modify my stitching program to apply them
reef kelp
cause i was using a voxel software+paint 3d to convert and edit my 3D models
pure sierra
@long raft do you have easy way to tile my high/full res height maps
long raft
yea
long raft
oh uhh ... not image files?
pure sierra
full res height maps masked
pure sierra
that is my blender project with 2 maps loaded to play with
if you wanted to do the whole world you would need to mathmatically work out the xy offsets for each map rather than just doing by eye as i did
pure sierra
full res height maps masked
this @long raft
this is the guide i found to get this far https://johnflower.org/tutorial/make-mountains-blender-heightmaps
long raft
final image is normalized 0-1 @pure sierra
pure sierra
what do you mean normalized 0-1
long raft
the range of heights is from 0 to 1
not like .25 to .75
it doesnt look like much because there are some black spots on the map
but if those were removed the normalization would be obvious, youd see more variance
darker darks, brighter brights
if we get each region scaled right, then normalize the whole image, the topography map will look amazing
probably should delete water too before normalizing
long raft
@pure sierra which maps did you change?
pure sierra
in what i gave you derp ? - none
long raft
oh
pure sierra
i just wanted full rez contour as is for now
long raft
did you see the one i posted yesterday with water deleted?
pure sierra
yes
long raft
i rewrote this stitching program to take an xml template, so now i just have a bunch of templates i can piece together
pure sierra
i cant contour that map you sent me derp, values are 0-100 but by script fu is 0-255
long raft
i spit them out in rgba64
pure sierra
let me try
long raft
same input format
i sure hope im using rgba64
actually im using rgbavector, which is 128 bit, it might be turning it into 32 bit before export
let me try a quick conversion
pure sierra
did you open my example ?
pure sierra
i also posted my tutorial
pure sierra
here
pure sierra
this is the guide i found to get this far https://johnflower.org/tutorial/make-m...
and here
pure sierra
it says 16 bit to me
it must just be some little setting
im trying to run it now
its just i only tell it to draw say values 110-150 to save time as thats where everything is rather than 0-255
but for yours im trying 66-88
long raft
oh, yea thats what normalizing changes
pure sierra
i just look at the color curve
long raft
i can turn normalizing off
pure sierra
just wait see how what im running comes out
long raft
unnormalized
reef kelp
wait i have my monkey way to do it whit no brain
pure sierra
gimp 10gb ram usage...
long raft
lol
pure sierra
i had to end task it
long raft
a lot of those mesas on borders could be used to get a very accurate scaling between two maps if its linear
because its really easy to get two different height values in those
pure sierra
@long raft can you make ur tiler output jpg if not a feature ?
@barren quarry calling me out on large png tile size
and figured easier to go to jpg rather than compress in node
long raft
i think the tiler does jpg already
tiler has new feature to specify output format, if you put .jpg extension it will do jpg
pure sierra
i tred dragging a jpg onto it and it made png
long raft
but you have to use it command line
Tiler.exe -input <input image file> [-size <tile pixel size>] [-zoom <max zoom level>] [-filename "output_directory/{z}_{x}_{y}.png"]
pure sierra
also here is full rez contour
long raft
in theory can just change the -filename to jpg
its something i added in the last 6 months
oooh contour map looks nice, is that normalized?
pure sierra
no
long raft
man this will look so awesome if we can get it
ok so i did the derivation for linear, its easy math
suppose the function to transform a point from map A to map B is f(x) = Ax + B
given two points from each map, lets call them C1, C2 and D1, D2
long raft
we know these two equations are true:
A(C1) + B = D1
A(C2) + B = D2
can you just make it autodetect, if it gets a jpg as drag/drop input it outputs as jpg
long raft
uhhh ... its complicated
so yea maybe i take in an RGB image, but it has to center it (thus on a transparent background) it needs to support RGBA on the output, even if the input is RGB
pure sierra
why does it need alpha ?
long raft
i dont want to assume a background color when i center the input image
so i assume a transparent one
pure sierra
my input image is already centered
long raft
otherwise you might be forced to crop every single tiled image
center inside of a square
its too hard to tile rectangles
imagine someone might want to put a JPG input but they dont want the output tiles to look like theyre centered inside of a black or white box
pure sierra
ill just try batch convert my png tiles
long raft
im surprised the ...output formatting isnt working
pure sierra
maybe i have an old version
pure sierra
pure sierra
windows one wont run for me
long raft
yea also worked for me
i have never seen that error, interesting
are you on windows 7?!
long raft
oh crap ive never tested it on windwos 7
.net 6 ...might have issue with windows 7 crap
you might try the x86 version
i think i might need to compile a specific windows 7 version
pure sierra
same error
long raft
crap win 7 not supported, i never realized this
ill have to make a framework dependent version for windows 7, ill make a note, sorry
thats funny it works perfectly on linux and apple but not windows 7. oof microsoft dropping the ball on your own OS
they must really want to bury win 7
pure sierra
unless im missing a redist
long raft
no i compiled it to be standalone, which evidently doesnt work with .net 6 and windows 7
pure sierra
ok
ur old version worked for me , any chance you added the new jpg feature before this other change
pure sierra
no rush
long raft
ok ill try to do it in a few hours i need to finish up pay work stuff
pure sierra
some other day
long raft
i would say just use linux subsystem, but windows 7 ack
i couldnt go back now. and also windows 11 is rough.
10 is still the sweet spot
pure sierra
win 7 best win
pure sierra
im not sure u can convince me
pure sierra
i have debian for that
long raft
thats hard to get rid of?
never had trouble getting rid of it. dont even know if its on windows 11
mossy pelican
you can turn it off but not uninstall it
long raft
oh ok, yea no big deal to me
mossy pelican
its fully integrated afaik
i also had a lot of trouble getting rid of the windows game bar and xbox stuff
quite annoying
long raft
oh i like the windows game bar i use it in foxhole often
its how i get all my derp drops
mossy pelican
it has a recorder doesnt it
mossy pelican
for me it kinda gets in the way bc i got OBS and all my external tools already and it eats my low end CPU's power
long raft
i suspect it only uses h264 tho
mossy pelican
so i just disabled it along with the xbox thing
long raft
like most windows things, its not very configurable, kinda does basics well but nothing more
mossy pelican
another thing is the old programs
long raft
win 11 has the best UI but man the performance is crap i need to research how to fix it
jesus. my laptop is slow now
mossy pelican
like every windows version is built on top of the previous one so you got the fancy win 10 programs and then you open up the old win 7 stuff that is still on the system for some reason and it looks super weird
long raft
yea the different UI scaling heh
windows is a mess in general, thats not new to win 10 really
mossy pelican
i mean at least the win 7 control panel loads faster than the win 10 one
long raft
never had any performance issues with my win 10 control panel
i feel like if you get pro, and you disable the auto restarts, its a very reliable and solid OS now with all the updates over the years
long raft
yeah
long raft
windows home doesnt let you easily turn off the auto restarts, which i imagine would drive a person insane
i3 pretty solid for gaming
mossy pelican
yeah very nice
i play some popular stuff with the igpu no problem
like gta 5 or kingdom come
long raft
high frequency CPU
long raft
yea the bigger number seemed better but not for games
i mean ... the i7s have better IGUs
but if you have your own video card an i3 is ideal
mossy pelican
i feel like the cpu's generation matters more than the first number thing
mossy pelican
of course an i7 or bigger is gonna beat most of the lower end intel stuff but between a really old i5 and a modern i3 i prefer the i3
so yeah what im gonna do is either get a new cpu with a better igpu or get a dedicated gpu but i think getting a noticeable upgrade on the gpu side is way more expensive
long raft
GPU is probably the way to go, best bang for buck
the CPU sockets and RAM types change so frequently youll be forced to do a whole system upgrade, and still be on an IGU
mossy pelican
whatever i do i hope i dont have to change my RAM
im aiming for 32gb, i got 16gb rn just need to buy the other stick
mild sphinx
do all your prints come out that clean?
yeah every single one comes out this clean. If your having problems with some just PM me, maybe its your exposure settings.
earnest glade
I'm thinking of doing a bit of janky data analysis on old foxhole wars
Anyone know if there's an easy way to get the full event log for a previous war (the one on foxholestats)?
Right now, I'm just copying the logs from the site and parsing them myself, not the end of the world, but an inelegant solution
barren quarry
you could probably ask hayden for an sql database of events
pure sierra
@earnest glade i can supply these on request
earnest glade
Sounds good, I'll let you know if it turns out I need them. thanks!
chilly burrow
https://api.steampowered.com --> this is "public"
https://partner.steam-api.com is this only if you are registered as a partner (company..) on steam?
viral snow
Hi, I'm new to Foxhole and I would like to create some app similar to FoxHoleStats.com, but with more data. First, I check the HTTP API (*.foxholeservices.com), but it's very limited. However, in-game, we have more information (in-game map). However, that more information seems to be retrieved using TCP/UDP (with a 'custom' protocol, rather than the HTTPS). I'm digging a little bit with wireshark and so on, trying to understand how that works. But, anyone already did that before? Thats odd, because /shardStatus contains multiples IPs (one for each hex) and port 7777, but it's never used (?!), instead it connects to a Valve Server (and Vivox). Anyone knows the game protocol?
viscid fern
Hi, I'm new to Foxhole and I would like to create some app similar to FoxHoleSta...
What other "data" you want to show? Foxholestats used to have more AFAIK but people on reddit wanted less because it gave out too much
viral snow
What other "data" you want to show? Foxholestats used to have more AFAIK but peo...
For instance, pings, amount of nodes on mines, factories queue and storage/seaport inventory, and so on. Everything that is available in-game.
viscid fern
oof defs not that's too much intel to give out
viral snow
The idea is to build a simple app which I can see the map without pressing M (running the map on secondary monitor or smartphone) and also keep track of the resources nodes (maybe even adds some notification when those nodes re-spawn or new pings are added to the map), and such. Another feature that would be great, is searching for items (and building types). I mean, searching for "bmat" (or "tshirt", "120mm"...) will highlight all seaports/factories/storage that contains such resource (including your own reserved inventory), making easier to move it to the front, instead of need to check each storage one-by-one. Maybe it could be smart enough to draw a line from the source to the ping, automatically (if the ping contains "logi list", or similar keyword). Anyway, in order to do anything, I need the information from the in-game map....
I don't think it would be simple to get that type of data, sounds like the UDP is encrypted, and I need to hack the Foxhole to use another key. Then, I can proxy the data and still need to understand how the packet is crafted. Them finally, and hopefully, start to request information about the map, in background (while I'm playing and driving some truck around). 🤔
If anyone have some information about the "foxhole protocol" and how the game get the map data, would be really useful. 👍
fallow blade
The issue with this, is it could easily be abused to take enemy information and display it to the other side. Suddenly the Collies know that there is no BMats at a certain base and can destroy it with sustained fire or the wardens know shirts are getting low at a BB and can push.
I think your idea is cool, I just don't think it is in the spirit of the game and highly abusable.
Also if the UDP is encrypted, it most likely is that way for a reason.
@viral snow
viral snow
@fallow blade that wouldn't be an issue if it's not public. I mean, the software would be shared, but not the content (the map itself). The idea is that you must install one app on your desktop, which will connect/hook to your own game. That app could also display the map (and move it to the window to the secondary monitor). Alternatively, have another smartphone app, a client app, which connects to your PC (via wifi) to get the map information. Generally speaking: the app will only have access to the data from your own game (which will not provide information about the enemy stats). The only way to get the data from the enemies is if I had another account. Maybe that could be considered cheating: since it would manipulate/intercept/create messages on behalf of the player, but I'm not sure.
lunar cobalt
I would guess that intercepting in-game data is something the devs would not appreciate
As well as something that could very possibly get you banned if found out.
The data available in the API is the only data available for a reason.
fallow blade
^ Exactly this
In addition, your app would most likely require user interaction in order to bring up certain information, such as what is in a seaport to use one of your examples and at that point you may aswell just press M and do it from there and not risk breaking ToS
viral snow
The data available in the API is the only data available for a reason.
The reason for the limited data is because it's public, not private. I'm not trying to make the information public, but rather read the information that the server is already sending to game anyway. 😅
lunar cobalt
so just play the game?
viral snow
so just play the game?
That is what I'm doing. But, is frustrating to hover into multiple mine fields, factories, seaport, storage (...) trying to find where have resources and if it's empty or not. Having such map-app, which keeps the data updated in the background, would be better and just save a little bit of time. 😅
pure sierra
as others have said, even if you could get access to the game packets that generate the map you see, others would might not wish to risk breaking rules to use it
long raft
oh man i dunno what im gonna do about the windows 7 version
its got like a billion files i have to include
long raft
yea but i deleted them so .. any other windows 7 people will be like wtf
evidently they changed something in .net the way self contained files work that is incompatible with windows 7 so id have to go back to .net 3 oof
pure sierra
so , default tiler generates to level 0-5
long raft
not sure what to do hmmm
pure sierra
but help says -zoom 6
long raft
it calculates the optimum zoom size (by default)
long raft
its some logarithmic calculation
long raft
((int)Math.Ceiling(Math.Log(Math.Max(OriginalSource.Width, OriginalSource.Height) / (double)tile_size)) + 1)
pure sierra
even at level 5 the higher rez over api rez is better
but i ran it to level 6
an now looks buch bettr
long raft
oh yea the lines are sharper
ive been considering using a different scaling method in the tiler
i use lanczos 3, but ive recently discovered a better image scaling filter
pure sierra
long raft
i imagine it will be painfully slow execution tho on a CPU
have you done any normalizing on the regions?
pure sierra
just adding level 6 adds 4000 extra tiles!
long raft
im curious to test one but dont really feel like doing the eyeballing myself
yea level 6 is intense
im kind of proud how fast it runs tho
pure sierra
pretty fast yes
long raft
i used 3 tiling programs before this and it was like a day to do the calculations lol
they were so horrible
crashed with any sizeable image, which is like wtf do you do tiling for. people only tile huge images
or some python script i couldnt get to work lol
pure sierra
have you done any normalizing on the regions?
no, not really rushing to do that, the height eyeballing is not hard, its just loading in all the regions each as a mesh in the right position without lining that up by eye, though maybe grid snap could work
long raft
i should set a small goal
ive got the equations, i should just ... install gimp and sample a couple points and see but meh, sink is clogged, so many other background interruptions
pure sierra
yeah i got plenty other things to do
long raft
we need an intern
pure sierra
currently listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv689YaplMo
dev man feel bad when players have better dialog on suggestions with each other than them, such as #game-feedback-archive auto trash can
long raft
didnt even know there was a presscorps
pure sierra
really good talk
long raft
how long did it take to draw the contour lines on that new map?
pure sierra
full rez ?
long raft
yea
pure sierra
maybe 5 mins
pure sierra
added casualty tally to war history
long raft
nice
brisk flint
Is there a way, via the API, to get access to the event log? How are people retrieving the event list? Apologies if this is a dumb question, but just not seeing an obvious API endpoint.
pure sierra
no dumb questions @brisk flint
there is no event log api as is shown on my site, my event log is generated by interpreting changes in the dynamic endpoints
long raft
foxholestats API when
pure sierra
kinda almost need it
so im trying this now for the apache problems ive beenn having https://serverfault.com/questions/891706/debian-8-apache-2-4-10-scoreboard-is-full-not-at-maxrequestworkers?noredirect=1&lq=1
shell karma
The reason for the limited data is because it's public, not private. I'm not try...
In general, your client does not receive data it does not need.
If you want to know if a field is empty, your only way to get the required data for that is to interact with the field in such a way that the server decides to send you that information to your client... which usually only happens when you can see the current status of the field anyway (Because that's why it sends it to you, so you can see it xD)
long raft
so im trying this now for the apache problems ive beenn having https://serverfau...
you're upgrading apache?
classic debian, always old versions for the sake of stability, leads to buggy ass versions haha
long raft
is it good or bad that theyre idle?
pure sierra
can see prev yellow free slowly dwindling till meets green active
and timeouts ensue
now now free, just idle (blue)
long raft
god i hate web servers
long raft
was just thinking how much i hate apache but then realizing i also hate nginx
pure sierra
nginx is fast but problem is you have to rewrite any htaccess files that come with your systems so you can just be a beginner, its hard
long raft
it aint that fast
pure sierra
everything written for apache htaccess
long raft
i mean inherently its gonna use threads instead of forks tho i think
i guess? i dunno i havent used htaccess in years
pure sierra
last time i tried it was ages ago though
long raft
you know theyre all fine when they work but when they dont theyre hard to figure out
pure sierra
htaccess used critically for rewrite and native cms seo url these days
long raft
i can tolerate tomcat and kestrel, but still have that web server vibe
was sort of shocked to find out kubernetes uses nginx for all its ingress/egress stuff
you can use traefik or apache but the default stuff is nginx, they claim its high performance due to configuration
long raft
@pure sierra in this i attempted to normalize godcrofts to tempest island. what do you think?
hmm everything looks kind of flat, i think my normalization needs another pass
this version makes everything easier to see. jeez godcrofts is super flat
i think proof of concept, this works
hollow gyro
These 2 images not loading for anyone else?
lunar cobalt
Open as original @hollow gyro, they're BIG images and discord doesn't like showing big images
hollow gyro
Ah I'm on mobile 😀
long raft
well in summary i nailed it
now i have to remember my linear algebra to chain these transforms, but i bet thats easy
pure sierra
was thinking about this this morning
do you just take several points along the border and adjust the image until they all meet ?
long raft
no, algebra, i used 2 points
it was very unintuitive the numbers i got, but i plugged them in anyway, and then the water looks insane but suddenly the land lines up perfectly
the problem im finding is the borders are so flat and uniform its hard to find 2 distinct points along it
pure sierra
my game day calc from game time was out by one as game day starts at 1 not 0
long raft
@pure sierra i made a win7 version I will add to binaries, if you get a chance to test this can you let me know if it works i dont have a windows 7 machine to test with.
has to be a whole package of files tho I can't just make a single executable 😦
pure sierra
OK after weekend
coral flax
What language was used to create Foxhole?
languid harness
human
long raft
are those 2 different postings? cause i see little crossover between people who know linear algebra and people who do hard surface modeling
mossy pelican
those are 2 different job offers yes
one is game programmer the other one is i believe 3d generalist
long raft
sexy, eh?
pure sierra
the land edges arent pretty
long raft
they arent?
pure sierra
dont worry about it
long raft
like the beaches?
pure sierra
it seems level
long raft
yea it did seem level to me too
pure sierra
but let me compare
long raft
you should see it without the water cropping. the water becomes like negative value, looks insane
i do not recognize the godcrofts tempest border in that image tho
i only normalized the 1 region
long raft
i mean thats ... a testament to how good its leveled 
pure sierra
that shot is camera looking east to west
long raft
if you cant even see the border...
you remember godcrofts used to be the craziest looking one, it had a large offset
and the scale value to normalize it is actually -.22, so its like its inverted
pure sierra
you seem to have leaveled out a bunch of detail though
long raft
relative to tempest it is just a very flat map
but its all preserved in floating point values, so when its all done the entire map can be normalized from 0-1
i thought i had deleted all detail at first too until i looked closer, its still there, just flat
pure sierra
long raft
i thought at the end of this, matt warned about how the maps appear very flat, its a different sense when playing
pure sierra
long raft
perhaps a high-pass filter is a good technique to preserve detail but keep them joining
pure sierra
those are meant to be the same island
pure sierra
no that is just a guide in blender
long raft
does the border split that island then?
i applied the same scale and offset equally across all points in godcrofts
pure sierra
border is around there
long raft
seems ... good to me
unless something went wrong in deleting the water areas, that process can be refined
this may be something even the devs havent done, unified the entire height map
pure sierra
no
long raft
although i suspect they have leveled them independently to the same levels
and i also notice theyre repainting them to level up better around borders (actually makes it harder for me to level them)
i cant use a border thats all 1 height
but i can chain the linear transforms together, so my hope is its possible to find at least one border thats usable on every region
also if gimp is rounding to the tenth place, i might be losing precision in my math
just seems suspicious everything is 1 decimal place in the display
pure sierra
it look like in blender not as nice
long raft
i mean if it looks good in a topography map, if it helps arti, if it helps me calculate road distance better, thats good enough for me
and when its fully normalized, when i delete all the black pixels, it will really pop for a topography map, i say when like im destined to do it but i should say if lol
pure sierra
are you going to use gimp to do the contouring ?
as your image is still 0-100 and not sure that contour plugin will work
trying again now
pure sierra
yeah it doesnt work
long raft
because of the range?
gimp just shows things as 0-100 that are not
its 0-65535 range but it just shows 0-100
pure sierra
seems, maybe image format not sure. in color range it shows 0-100 but the contour runs 0 -255
long raft
it seems like that contouring script could be using 8 bit values, i mean that can all still work
if youre gonna reduce precision from 16 bits to 8 bits, it would be best to fully normalize it, you would preserve the most detail that way
i think all that stuff is easy to adjust and compensate for
hard part is finding 2 points on each border different enough to solve the transform
and sampling them
this is why we need an intern
hah i wonder if its worth paying somebody on fiver to do this
afraid it woudl take some familiarity, as there are caveats, like you cant use water to level stuff, or any points under water (i suspect)
god i obviously like to talk about this shit i have a real tryhardon for terrain
pure sierra
do you have the contour plugin setup ? have you used it ?
actually it seems to be working
upper is urs lower is original
long raft
i always see this channel lit up like it has unread messages but it never does, is it just scammres or people coming in with the same tired morse code joke?
barren quarry
so its not just me
lunar cobalt
I don't know what it is
pure sierra
i dont see it
languid harness
i always see this channel lit up like it has unread messages but it never does, ...
I saw it was someone who said a bad worth this time
Didnt mention it, because why would I
It was already dealt with
languid harness
I mean, FOD is a public discord
neat grove
wicked island
Hi all, I was just watching a twitch stream, and the guy had a Foxhole life stats windows, with map and life stats, is there something like that I can download somewhere to use for my twitch stream?
I allready found the API files, but I really don't know how to start to code that myself
dusk grove
no clue exactly
pure glen
Check foxholestats, they say stuff about a Twitch/OBS overlay with the info from the API.
It's at the bottom of the page, haven't ever looked into it or tried it.
wicked island
Check foxholestats, they say stuff about a Twitch/OBS overlay with the info from...
Thats only for the event log
pure glen
Oh okay, then no idea!
pure glen
Maybe just ask him, if they're not a big streamer?
wicked island
He had it made by someone, but I had hoped someone over here maybe knows about it
wicked island
Maybe just ask him, if they're not a big streamer?
yeah maybe I will, not sure he want to share it, but I can try
hollow gyro
Anything like that uses the Developer's 'War API' (and a bit of Steam); I am using it myself.
It is likly that this is custom made for the Streamer and therefore only they have access.
There is both foxhole stats, and sigil stats for war information; the latter is more mobile friendly.
wicked island
Anything like that uses the Developer's 'War API' (and a bit of Steam); I am usi...
Thanks for the reply, yeah I gathered it was custom made, would have been nice to have something like that to add to my stream. I have the event log now added so thats a start.
pure sierra
There are several mobile apps that it could be?
pliant lantern
@long raft Was this supposed to be an easter egg?
long raft
Credits
long raft
@pure sierra finally windows 7 versions: https://github.com/NoUDerp/Tiler/releases/tag/main
pure sierra
Cool
neon vaporBOT
@marble plinth Watch your language.
idle maple
I’m thinking about going into code what’s a good starter
I have heard that a lot it’s the best starter
languid harness
I’m thinking about going into code what’s a good starter
Depends on what you are intereseted in coding
idle maple
Depends on what you are intereseted in coding
Really anything just general code then get into specifics idk if I can do that
ionic linden
Really anything just general code then get into specifics idk if I can do that
java or python are good starters for logic and whatnot
I started with java
idle maple
Ok I’ll try Java and see how it goes
languid harness
Python is good if you are scared of the big syntax hassle, or like working with processing data
Java is a good one if you like to get knee deep and try to make an application of sorts
idle maple
Oh ok so python would be better for what I had in mind
Is there anything you recommend for python
coral sundial
Prototyping
Super easy to install a library and get to work
But if you want to get real good id start with C basics. It practically teaches you the basics of all languanges. Its just slow to get started with.
Good library to start with is raylib then
idle maple
Ok thank you
long raft
java is good to start with, tons of people starting with python and c# is amazing
C is pretty easy to start with but useless [for new programmers]
idle maple
Ok so what should I start with instead of C or is that the best to start with I heard C is the best for beginner python
long raft
C is simple and boring
python will give you a lot of power
being able to do things is important for motivation, in my opinion
idle maple
I agree there so start with C to understand it more then move to the complicated stuff?
Or skip C entirely
idle maple
Ok
viscid fern
Ok
Look up freecodecamp
Free, easy entry to coding, mostly from the web side of things at first
Idk why nobody suggests newbies to start with HTML and CSS. Its not programming languages but its such important subject to understand
CSS not only teaches you to aestetics/style, but also semi-introduces you to json/xml styling you'll be using everywhere till you're asked to make databases
long raft
Idk why nobody suggests newbies to start with HTML and CSS. Its not programming ...
because its memorization rather than concepts, chaotic mess of 4-5 technologies that are always shifting
viscid fern
Don't see how tech shifting should make a beginner uncomfortable
My young dumb ass was more excited creating a poopy web page at school rather than scripting a turtle movement but I guess I'm the only one
long raft
well if you write a tutorial on web development its likely out of date in 12 months
you know teaching the same old data structures in C hasnt changed in 50 years
viscid fern
I don't think basic html, CSS and js changed so much for my sites to require updating its code
The people making other js frameworks? They can fart
I use webdev for personal projects so I can only account for hobbyists
long raft
javascript is only like ... 27 years old and is in its 3rd renaissance
the only thing i can think of thats a faster moving target than web development is machine learning
i think some courses are afraid of overwhelming students with the scope of web development
viscid fern
No wonder everyone's switching to using apps and leaving sites... Who even knows what a forum is now.
Yeah maybe just forget about web dev. Just grab the automation book and learn python
Who needs all this margin management when you don't even need no goddamn ui
long raft
i mean ... CSS is terrible. i hope we dont keep using it forever
viscid fern
Oh, but...! You can get 5% off your lifetime squaresp-...
hollow gyro
@idle maple I used a program 'Processing' which is Java but it does drawing and mouse events, really good for making say a box and instantly seeing it exist.
Lots of good little demos to learn from too, I recommend giving it a look for an introduction.
jovial lake
learn C its the best for everything /s
stone void
Just code in Scratch, no one will notice
idle maple
<@713995167996182566> I used a program 'Processing' which is Java but it does dr...
Ok I’ll do python and after I get good at that I’ll try out Java
idle maple
Just code in Scratch, no one will notice
I just looked it up no
stone void
lmao
past phoenix
<@713995167996182566> I used a program 'Processing' which is Java but it does dr...
It can do much more than drawing. I had to use it to make games in my class
hollow gyro
It can do much more than drawing. I had to use it to make games in my class
Yup that too, it's a brilliant tool.
past phoenix
Yup that too, it's a brilliant tool.
Good for introduction I guess. Give you a basic understanding of loops, classes and many other things
hollow gyro
Good for introduction I guess. Give you a basic understanding of loops, classes ...
The main thing for me, it's it's actual code, not crappy drag-and-drop; I did 'Alice' in Yr1 at University; what a waste of time!
Second, is the visual; you get instant feedback in a visually pleasing and easy to understand way.
past phoenix
The main thing for me, it's it's actual code, not crappy drag-and-drop; I did 'A...
Yea and it supports mobile too
long raft
typical training is program flow > algorithms > data structures
cloud magnet
@idle maple Learning C first is like learning to drive a manual car before you learn how to drive an automatic. Learn basic programming concepts from C first and try to write your Code down semantically on paper before you Code. C is the best language to learn the fundamentals of computer theories like Computer Networks, Compiler Design, Computer Architecture, Operating Systems. So to learn about CPU Cache, memory, network adapters etc. C is a must. After that go to C++ and that builds on your knowledge of C and gives you a wide array of things you can do. Also if you learn C/C++ really well, learning any other programming language becomes like a walk in the park.
lunar cobalt
yeah but it's also like trying to learn to drive a manual before you crash off a cliff
cloud magnet
Can you elaborate why you feel that way?
long raft
i dont think anyone learns about cpu caches and network adapters in C
compiler handles all that for you now
proper libraries, ill never see this argument to learn a 50 year old language as the basis for your computer knowledge
god imagine writing a compiler in C, lol
cloud magnet
I am just saying that it is an option.
long raft
yea i mean C can do everything. it will just be 100x harder
and c++ will only confuse you
cloud magnet
Why would it confuse him?
long raft
c++ is a massive language with no transference to other languages
ive mentioned this about c++ before, just the simplest hello world is indecipherable to a new programmer in c++
i argue most people who claim to be c++ programmers dont even know how a c++ hello world works
cloud magnet
C++ is awful to look at as a newbie I get that but the concepts you have in C++ you can easily carry over to other OOP Languages
long raft
like what?
multiple inheritance? obscure operator overloads? templates?
about the only thing that carries over is exceptions
c++ is a freakin weird exotic language that does many bad things the industry avoids now
C is a must, but not a good first language, c++ not required
i suppose a universal rule is do whatever language keeps your interest
cloud magnet
Usage of classes, polymorphism, exceptions are the few things it can give you to other languages but if you start with Python as mentioned above you can miss out on numerous things.
long raft
python doesnt have classes and inheritance?
cloud magnet
C is an absolute must imo as a first language. It forces you to understand variables, pointers, functions, datatypes, etc
long raft
why cant python teach you variables functions datatypes and indices?
cloud magnet
JavaScript can also teach you functions and datatypes aswell but it still doesnt force you to it.
long raft
C doesnt force you either
cloud magnet
Sure you can just write var in C and forget about datatypes....
pliant prism
is that the recommended way to go? fuck no
long raft
you can use void * everywhere
pliant prism
you can learn the fundamentals in any language, but you ain't beating learning how to write code using a statically typed, compiled language
long raft
i dunno data type memorization seems like a pretty tenuous reason to make C your first language
cloud magnet
Yes that is the first thing people do. Use void * for variables.
long raft
so use a 50 year old language so you can memorize 50 year old data types
pliant prism
the only reason why i would maybe recommend C to a newbie is if you'd ever end up stranded on a desert island kind of scenario
cloud magnet
The entire reason why TypeScript is gaining traction is because of datatypes and because you have to use them. People nowadays can build an entire website from scratch or even build "AI" without knowing a single datatype
pliant prism
i personally learned javascript as my first language, and now i fucking hate vanilla JS
i love TS
cloud magnet
the only reason why i would maybe recommend C to a newbie is if you'd ever end u...
It has numerous appliances in IoT, Automation, Robotics and Cars
pliant prism
yeah
a fellow colleague who just joined our company was an embedded engineer working with C/C++
lunar cobalt
It has numerous appliances in IoT, Automation, Robotics and Cars
the likelyhood of a newbie being able to go straight to that in C before burning out is low I'd say
long raft
i just feel like these old languages that are a grind to work in may discourage people from continuing their learning
its really not up for debate that working in C makes everything harder
pliant prism
@long raft true, but there's quite a bit of stuff that newer languages miss out on
light cairn
I use C in order to do Arduino based programming - which absoultly sucks btw
pliant prism
i had a folk recently asked me about what structs were
which is something i picked up whilst learning C and go
long raft
you can find languages that dont do everything C does, but i think its hard to find a popular language thats missing out on something C has
long raft
based on?
lunar cobalt
i had a folk recently asked me about what structs were
yeah cause most languages just don't care about it
cloud magnet
i just feel like these old languages that are a grind to work in may discourage ...
I mean I get that I really do. People in my class were not having fun at all with C and memed it all the time. They hated every minute of it. From learning basic datatypes, loops, pointers, functions, etc. but after that they fully grasped the basic concepts or programming. Also another thing which is not weird to me: Anyone who is good at C/C++ is really good at debugging code.
pliant prism
i have to disagree here
long raft
but they could have learned all that in a language they didnt hate
and they shouldnt be lumped together. c++ is 10x the language scope of C
long raft
people think they are programming c++ but theyre just doing C with a few extra features
c++ is absolutely enormous
pliant prism
oh, that is true
i thought you were referring to scope as in which branches the languages are used
long raft
nah, complexity