SWTOR Lore Discussion

[elfin anchor]

he spent like a century studying sith shit right? I think its likely tbh

[jovial ether]

Yeah.

MY question is...how long before the Ritual did he carve the imprint/failsafe into his body?

[elfin anchor]

also dont you think its awfully convenient that Vitiate had everything ready by the time of the Great Hyperspace War? Like the moment the sith begin looking for a strong sith lord to lead them he shows up with everything already planned (he already found dromund kaas and had a plan on how to reach it)

[jovial ether]

It took bro a century to plan all of this. haha

[elfin anchor]

awfully absent during the power struggle between Sadow and Kressh

and whats interesting is that even more centuries before that, some people from Vitiate's time period were already foreseen. For example, Sadow who had a tomb built around the time of Tulak long before Sadow had even been born

I wonder if Vitiate just predicted some events from the Great Hyperspace War, or set something in motion. After all the only one who benefitted greatly from the GHW was Vitiate

[jovial ether]

The Entity helped him. 😉

[elfin anchor]

maybe Vitiate had something to do with Ragnos' death?

[jovial ether]

He maybe Force poisoned him.

[elfin anchor]

he'd know there would be a civil war between ludo and naga because they were the two other most powerful sith of the time

[jovial ether]

I always wondered this. Tenebrae in EOO looks like he is in his 30s or 40s, but if the imprint was made right before the Ritual, then that means he should have looked old given he was 113 when he consumed Nathema.

[marble yew]

Ok that was a shit ton of random cameos

The ones I recognized that weren't mentioned by name were 3 Jedi from ziost only one name I remember master suro meetra revan vaylin syo bakarn

Jesus that story was packed

AND REVAN AS A COMPANION?

Thexan arcann senya

Kira scourge

So

Is he really gone?

Revan showing up at all took me by surprise

But then he's a companion

Like what bloody genius thought of that

Facing all 3 bodies was weird though

But the design for tenebrae was interesting

But I now question

Who was vitate before tenebrae took him over

[uneven quartz]

Probably decently powerful. Anybody he takes over i assume is at least Dark Honor Guard or Dark Council-level.

[marble yew]

Meetra showing up caught me off guard too

Valkorian was just some war lord on a primitive world

[uneven quartz]

But of course, they're willingly giving themselves up. I wouldn't imagine he'd willingly choose somebody like the Outlander that he had to fight for control to dominant.

[marble yew]

Maybe he did

[uneven quartz]

So most likely people that believe emphatically in him and/or are staunch supporters too.

It's always possible. But i just can't see it.

[marble yew]

I doubt valkorian was willing but I also doubt he put up a fight

But we know even less about viatate then we do about valkorian

All we know about valkorian was he was a warlord on the primitive planet of zakuul

[west sequoia]

just to point out again that Vitiate is Tenebrae's Sith title, not a reference to a particular Voice

[uneven quartz]

I think they mean the Vitiate host body of the Sith Empire, since it was clearly not a Sith Pureblood.

[void pelican]

which one

the one the knight meets in chapter 2 or the one the knight kills in chapter 3

[marble yew]

Wether true or not he clearly took over someone's body since that body and the valkorian body were human not sith like his original body

[marble yew]

There's more than those

And he doesn't die in knight chapter 3

[west sequoia]

that Voice 100% dies

just like the Voss Voice 100% dies

[marble yew]

Until yavin 4

[west sequoia]

no

Vitiate isnt even physically present on Yavin 4

[marble yew]

But he is present

Yes knight destroys his body but he doesn't die

He doesn't truly die until the end of kotet

[west sequoia]

but many of his Voices do die

in fact thats why they exist

[marble yew]

The vitate body wasn't a voice though

[west sequoia]

yes it was

[marble yew]

If that's the case so was valkorian

[west sequoia]

yes

[marble yew]

We know for a fact he went back and forth between the two bodies

[west sequoia]

and many others

[marble yew]

Senya and marr both imply as much

However technically unless he overwrote each of his hosts genetically arcann thexan and valyin are not his children

They're valkorian's

That sounds like paradox

[west sequoia]

not really

[marble yew]

They're not genetically his children even though he created them

Remember valkorian was just a war lord before tenebrae found him

Which does make me wonder if he ever found iokath

Tenebrae is the one who significantly advanced zakuul society and he had have found the enternal fleet somehow

It seems likely he had been to iokath at least once

[native plaza]

he tried to push you out of your body too in the end... but yeah if you want to get spot on science genetic body wise they are the children of the voice body of Valkorian but in a bigger sense he tries to push you out the way he had done to them (maybe they were more willing not realizing the actual result thinking he would be there with them when he intended to take over fully from the start) ...

[marble yew]

I seriously want to know what zakuul was like before tenebrae found them

My working theory is the human colony was ethier left there after the rakata infinite empire fell apart or arrived from the core worlds via sleeper ships at some point

All we know for sure is they were primitive before tenebrae found them

[native plaza]

nope... Iokath is something else... the machines of the world or the original inhabitant's machines were sent out to conquer worlds... those worlds included Zakuul that's where the cross over is... now how long ago was that ... that's also why Zakuul's pantheon of Gods is the machines

[marble yew]

Then how did valkorian obtain the eternal fleet

We know those came from iokath it's not a stretch to say he took it from iokath

Same thing with the grave stone

I miss that ship

[native plaza]

that's a jigsaw that has a lot of pieces missing... the question is, when they tried to conquer Zakuul was Valkorian already Tennebra if so then perhaps it was the powers he possess that stopped them and taking their tech is part of how he built it up to what it was

[marble yew]

Koth claims the eternal fleet and the grave stone are older than both zakuul and valkorian but he could be mistaken

[native plaza]

see I don't know that he had been there if he had, he would have known Scorpio was a threat and warned or tried to get you to stop that threat in my opinion... I see it as he didn't really know where they came from just took over and built upon the tech of it they had... why they stopped there... we know they were memory wiped/locked and driven from Iokath by the original creators trying to save themselves ... so maybe they were just continuing their conquest blindly and somehow something happened on Zakuul that stopped them, the gravestone is skuttled into the swamp not crashed normally that much we do know

or when memory locked they returned to the last world they conquered and someone managed to find a way to gain control of them bringing in the Zakuulian pantheon of Gods and starting the whole madness

we know Zildrog is on Nathema but not when that happened... did Valkorian move it there for safe keeping like other things upend discovering the brain and does he know about the ship... the "brain" isn't 100% Iokath looking either so maybe there is a piece we lost somewhere too

[marble yew]

See this all seems likely until you consider zildrog is on nathema

Ethier he discovered iokath at some point and moved it there or it was already there which I doubt

I think more likely he moved zildrog there

As to why he didn't think Scorpio was a threat he ethier didn't know about her or dismissed her as nothing more than an annoyance

[native plaza]

how so, the fact that the machine that is his brain is there tracks with what we know of Valkorian using the vaults there to keep artifacts "even he deemed too powerful to be used"

[marble yew]

The only other possible explanation is zildrog was built on nathema unlike the rest of them

Plus keep in mind we know next to nothing about the builders of iokath

[native plaza]

but Zildrog is not a machine god the way the rest are.... lol I don't know perhaps ZIldrog isn't even originally from Iokath there is no proof it is, we only know it's a machine god (different from the others to what I have seen) yet similar... the thing is if you were among the last suviving original builders on Iokath realizing your own weapons were too powerful to use (two factions fighting for control of the super weapons so the machine gods of Iokath) would you not have put all you had into attempting to make something to defeat that superweapon? Perhaps that is what ZIldrog and the gravestone really is ... it took out the fleet over Zakuul and the creators then skuttled it into the swamps

see I can see that as the actual reason that the only thing that could touch the fleet was the gravestone... and we know that is ZIldrog ... now I have nothing for what happened to those creators maybe they thought it was safe and returned to die or maybe they are out there in the galaxy or maybe they intended to make Zakuul their new home and then later Valkorian found out about it all on Zakuul and took the machine to keep it safe, and to keep himself safe not even knowing that the gravestone was connected and part of it

[west sequoia]

theres some mention of SCORPIO and co being "cast out" from Iokath and ARIES' dialogue strongly suggests Vitiate never went there

[native plaza]

yeah they were driven away and had their memories locked (or wiped but pretty sure locked) by the original makers to try and save themselves

I've done the op once, and don't remember anything valuable in clues for that there either... I haven't done the things with the dropped random card from the op I have one for one of the gods but not a clue how to use it or what it does and haven't had time to look into it

[west sequoia]

thats just to pilot them in the daily area

pretty sure the only other mention the machine gods get is in that probe base prelude before nathema

and not even in an "oh i've wiped out six of these motherfuckers already, one of which was a flying armageddon, this should be a piece of cake"

its just "oh yeah, iokath machine gods, those exist."

tbh i still think it would have been better if IZAX and ZILDROG were swapped

[native plaza]

oh then maybe i should use my lil thing and check it out lol

yeah Izax feels bigger somehow than Zildrog or in my mind at least

[void pelican]

genes don’t matter in that case

it’d be relevant if there were anything left of Valkorion’s own mind but all there was there was the Emperor

[bright phoenix]

https://swtor.jedipedia.net/en/cdx/the-eternal-fleet

Valkorion had heard rumors of the fleet before his arrival on Zakuul; it was the main reason he chose the planet to house his new empire. Once he gained control over Zakuul, he began his search for the fleet in earnest, using the Scions' Force visions to eventually find the dormant ships. He built the Eternal Throne to reactivate and command the lost fleet.

[bright phoenix]

https://swtor.jedipedia.net/en/cdx/zildrog

The ancient mechanical entity known as Zildrog has always operated from behind the scenes.

[bright phoenix]

that is indeed the implication

[bright phoenix]

*"I... I think I finally found it. After combing through all the data we took from Iokath..."

"There was a string of numbers, repeated over and over. When I decrypted them, the string spelled a word: Zildrog."*

[bright phoenix]

https://swtor.jedipedia.net/en/cdx/heralds-of-zildrog

*Stories of the dragon Zildrog predate Izax's pantheon. *

[bright phoenix]

the pantheon of Izax was constructed on Iokath

the planetary network of Iokath is tens of millennia old

Zildrog, according to one of his passives, is described as the "Aegis of Iokath"

Valkorion is described as the "Protector of Zakuul"

[bright phoenix]

The Outlander may ask ARIES whether or not Iokath is another one of Valkorion's secrets, to which ARIES will respond "Iokath has always been a sovereign political entity."

[bright phoenix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amKRroXOXd4

[marble yew]

So is zildrog made of iokath tech?

[bright phoenix]

iokath is made of zildrog tech

[marble yew]

Huh?

[bright phoenix]

Zildrog predates Iokath

[marble yew]

Interesting

[bright phoenix]

https://swtor.jedipedia.net/en/cdx/iokath-remotes

Doctor Oggurobb believes the remotes were built centuries ago as multi-purpose drones used to construct the massive planetary structure of Iokath. More recently, the AI known as ARIES likely repurposed them to monitor any trespassers stranded on the planet.

[marble yew]

So who built zildrog and was it the same people as iokath?

[bright phoenix]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/2/22/Heralds_of_Zildrog.png/revision/latest?cb=20210625045643

remember these guys?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/860243942506364968/1187819899746267357/iokath_montirod.jpeg?ex=669760bc&is=66960f3c&hm=9b5ccb54288e4479afd963f78b477f6cf4b972117b7dfddf7913ffc50c81b3f1&

this is them now

feel old yet?

[marble yew]

Wait what

[bright phoenix]

messengers of zildrog

[marble yew]

Explain

[bright phoenix]

Iokath was created for Zildrog, Iokath was created using the technoliths, monitors and remotes

https://fibrojedi.me.uk/shocemsy/2016/12/18-Central-Technolith-scaled.jpg

which means visually these are the oldest tech you can see on Iokath

[marble yew]

And their creators wiped themselves out at some point

[bright phoenix]

their black and red color scheme matches the black and red color scheme of the Heralds of Zildrog who police the Old World of Zakuul, Valkorion's first attempt at a grand society

[bright phoenix]

No one knows who built Zildrog

that is the ultimate question

because the fact is, the Zildrog we see in the game has been constructed by someone

https://swtor.jedipedia.net/en/cdx/history-of-iokath-entry-4

At long last, our culture will achieve the immortality it deserves.

Zildrog is the culture

the cult

[marble yew]

Is Rass ordo a temporary companion?

[bright phoenix]

and the culture cultivates Zildrog

[unborn brook]

Yes, he is a temp comp...

[marble yew]

Damn he's cool

[native plaza]

temp so far at least

we can hope LOL

[marble yew]

I want arn and tau

And satele

And that one surprise companion from echoes of oblivion

But him being a companion wouldn't work

Since ya know

https://tenor.com/view/he-dead-dead-he-death-died-gif-20280847

[unborn brook]

Hey, at least he got therapy before that... At the expense of the Galaxy... lol

[marble yew]

Dude got split in 2

[unborn brook]

Yeah and was delusional... But hey, he got therapy realizing his goal was folly...

[marble yew]

Only half was delusional

[unborn brook]

Yeah, but it’s still him... Even if neither were truly him... Lol

[marble yew]

He's by far one of my favorite characters

Probably even in my top 10

[mild jetty]

Zash companion when?

[hexed coral]

Just brought that up yesterday

Zash needs to be back

[clever ibex]

She can't
She's killable in the traitor arc after zakuul

Can't remember specifics rn but imma check after work

[hexed coral]

It goes like this

If you chose Khem:
Zash dies in the traitor arc
Khem has an alert

If you chose Zash:
Khem dies in the traitor arc
Zash is ???

So it would be nice to have closure in this branch

[hollow reef]

^ 🙏

if khem got to return and even get a joke romance, then it's entirely possible for them to provide a return for the loose end they still have with the keeping-zash variant

[hexed coral]

SWTOR will never be complete until Zash returns 🙏

[hollow reef]

REAL

🗣️

[hexed coral]

And Jadus, and Vaylin

And Malgus(for the 4000th time)

Not Vitiate though

Pls no

[maiden stag]

and valkorion for 19248928th time because why not retcon deaths are fun anyways

[hollow reef]

with a name like Legacy of the Sith, that implied to me toward the beginning that the story would take an archaeological turn
finding lore n such on a sith's legacies, wowee
and with that in mind considering zash and the inq story, that'd fall in well with being how she can return
,,alas

[hexed coral]

Malgus was the only one whose death they retconned tbh

Jadus is alive no matter what you choose

Zash is alive if you choose her

Vaylin was dead and then heavily implied to be resurrected

And Vitiate was never truly dead until KOTET and they didn’t pretend that he is iirc

And after KOTET they tried to keep his death so it’s some imprint in EOO and not him

[hexed coral]

Should’ve called it Legacy of the Mandos

Or better yet, legacy of TYRUS BROKENBLADE

[west sequoia]

theres a lot of ruhnuk that was in 7.0 so i'm fairly certain it was actually supposed to be 6.4 before 7.0 got moved ahead

and then 7.1 was a bandaid patch

[hexed coral]

I wonder why they did that

[west sequoia]

the 10th anniversary

dont think anyone in the dev teams heirarchy wanted to say outright to EA executives "no we dont have a 10th anniversary expansion planned at all"

[west sequoia]

I do hope we get a 7.x update with that as a primary theme

probably wont be 7.6 though

[elfin anchor]

#star-wars message

https://swtor.jedipedia.net/en/cdx/world-thrasher

should this really be a repulsor vehicle? It'd get disabled so early on

[void pelican]

it's part of a combined arms doctrine

not to mention treads or legs would sometimes negate the all-terrain requirement

[elfin anchor]

@void pelican check the screencaps here though, repulsors seem to not be capable of going through shield perimeters (think thats also why in the movies you dont see droid repulsor tanks breakthing through the gungan shields at naboo). This is one of the reasons why walkers are so common in Star Wars

feel like world thrashers would make more sense if they were tracked or were walkers that acted as, essentially, mine sweepers

[sharp hinge]

Yeah she's Syl now.

[jovial ether]

I wonder how Vaylin had the ability to transfer her essence into Syl.

[elfin anchor]

well I wonder how the hell vitiate knows it in the first place

Andeddu's holocron should be on Prakith

[jovial ether]

Maybe he thought he invented the technique himself, not knowing that there were other Sith Lords before who had done it as well.

[elfin anchor]

i mean its possible but I wouldnt like that tbh

Tulak also knew how to transfer his essence but with that weird ritual

[jovial ether]

Or maybe he learned from texts directly from Karness Muur.

[uneven quartz]

Heck, even somebody like Zash can transfer. It's not like in this era of SW its that uncommon a technique.

[subtle salmon]

Just different ways to do it

[sharp hinge]

I suspect Satele might be to blame there.

[bright phoenix]

I think Vitiate developed that ability after he clicked on essence transfer.exe and consumed 8000 sith

that's also when he would have gained the ability to spread his power around, I'm sure

someone should write a fanfic

the effects of Zildrog under a controlled scientific environment

[frigid parrot]

Does it ever make mention of who originally defeated and imprisoned the Dread Masters?

[jovial ether]

Anyone know where this image of Vitiate came from? It is a commonly used image online of the Emperor but it isn't from any cutscene in game. If anyone had a guess, where did this image originate?

[west sequoia]

i think that's the yavin SH cave in the background so probably someone "trying" to make a cosplay character

[jovial ether]

Aaah... So a custom character that was supposed to resemble Vitiate?

No wonder why this "Vitiate" looks younger than the typical one.

[winter trellis]

yeah, the fact that it's not all black alone gives it away

[jovial ether]

And the armor looks different.

[winter trellis]

one of many "it looks very similar but slightly altered and sold as a seperate outfit"

[deep pebble]

it was Master Kaedan from the Jedi Council
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jaric_Kaedan
very disappointing to ||easily kill him|| during Ilum impside story ||as a some minor NPC, not even the final boss =(||

[subtle salmon]

That guy, did thought he must’ve felt full of himself and was overconfident ever since he captured the Dread Masters

[elfin anchor]

Its Insane that guy defeated the dread masters

yeah he got killed too easily

[west sequoia]

good ol' ludonarrative dissonance

[elfin anchor]

yep

also speaking of the dread masters. Wook says that they basically mastered the usage of battle meditation but I cant find anything in the game that even says the dread masters used battle meditation

This power allowed the Dread Masters to destroy entire Galactic Republic fleets during the Great Galactic War; they had mastered the art of battle meditation to the point that they would inflict an awful, mysterious terror upon members of any given Republic cruiser.
This is what wook says

[void pelican]

yeah

basically it was less “inspire our guys” and more “your guys can’t fight if they have FEAR”

idk if the game calls it battle meditation per se but they could in fact affect entire fleets when working in concert

and like

even with Styrak dead the other five were able to affect that republic fleet so it would crash on Oricon

which i think is a testament to how good they were at their thing

[jovial ether]

So does anyone believe the idea that Tenebrae was born with black eyes such as the legend about his backstory says? Or do you think he was born with normal eyes and got the pure black ones sometime later in his life?

[sinful pawn]

he did what? damn, i just thought he was an always complaining jedi master

[jovial ether]

Where the hell is the source of this information? https://swtor-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Vitiate#Final_Demise

[west sequoia]

fanfiction

or i guess a completely dead wiki

[jovial ether]

Yeah, maybe someone made it up.

[bright phoenix]

whoever wrote it mixed up tenebrous with tenebrae

[jovial ether]

Agreed, haha

[maiden stag]

Either that part hadnt been updated since 2012 or thats just bullshit, I honestly cant tell

[west sequoia]

I think they'd written some kinda ambiguous (because it was at the time) statement based off the Plagueis novel

they only had a very sparse update to the Vitiate page to factor in information from KotFE, seems to be no information from KotET reflected in it

[bright phoenix]

well if you check tenebrous dies 67 bby

plagueis novel only states vitiate died at some point

[west sequoia]

the infobox at the top does say 3630BBY as Vitiate's final death

[bright phoenix]

yeah it's down in the article

probably fixed in the info box

[west sequoia]

its the same kind of writing style that wookieepedia has for ambiguous stuff

[bright phoenix]

*The Emperor continued to live on, past the collapse of his Empire, but, after surviving for millennia, Vitiate is presumed to have died close to 67 BBY at the hands of a Jedi Knight after being pursued in an effort to end his plans for the galaxy

lol

[west sequoia]

but they also have a lot of editors that keep themselves up to date, even with SWTOR info

[bright phoenix]

oh ok well it says close to 67 bby

[west sequoia]

oh right

guess i skim-read and missed the close part

[clever ibex]

Maybe it's the devs giving themselves an excuse to bring him back again as much as they want

[west sequoia]

they dont need a fan wiki to do that

but also i genuinely think they wanted to be done with Vitiate

its why we even got Echoes of Oblivion

[keen delta]

Vitiate is done, Tenebrae will be back

[jovial ether]

Yeah. I think that the information here was a misunderstanding. All the Plagueis novel said was that Vitiate was dead at that point, nothing more. The person probably misunderstood that line and maybe confused it with Darth Tenebrous's death.

[jovial ether]

What's the difference?

[keen delta]

Tenebrae is ugly

Vitiate got the drip

that is the difference

[jovial ether]

Can you explain the source of THIS information in YouTube comments? 😛

[jovial ether]

This person claims that Vitiate is still around in the Phantom Menace era, lol.

[bright phoenix]

another guy speedrunning plagueis or parroting random shit

[jovial ether]

Hehe.

[bright phoenix]

the 67 bby is easily explained by someone mistaking tenebrous with tenebrae tho

[jovial ether]

Next thing you are gonna tell me is that someone or some fan site claimed that Vitiate survived post Star Wars Legacy Era, lol.

[bright phoenix]

way worse stuff out there

[jovial ether]

In all seriousness, I think that Vitiate is truly gone after Echoes of Oblivion, and hope it stays that way.

[bright phoenix]

gone

but not forgotten

[jovial ether]

True that.

Btw, why does Darth Malgus have different colored eyes in Legacy of the Sith's Disorder trailer than in the actual game?

[keen delta]

I hope not

We need the Emperor back

[jovial ether]

Any reason?

[keen delta]

He is the only good villain besides the republic

[west sequoia]

people misremember shit all the fucking time

[jolly depot]

It makes some sense because firstly, Quinn would surely be smart enough to realize that someone who has destroyed countless alien monsters, jedi of all ranks, republic soldiers, and other sith would be smart enough to know that two robots wouldn't do jack shit against you anyways. He should also be smart enough to know that Baras views everyone around him as an expendable asset to be discarded once a better asset presents itself, and that his own life means absolutely nothing to Baras, wherehas it does to the emperor's wrath (depending on if you aren't 100% DS).

Baras's same strengths are also his weaknesses. The man is used to getting what he wants and having everyone obey him at all times. You didn't even do anything against Baras when he betrayed you, he just lured you into a cave for yet another mission before deciding to have you crushed to death. If quinn set the droids to low power at the last moment, made a big show of trying to fight the emperor's wrath and losing, then there would be no reason Baras would notice it since to him, his underlings are incapable of defying him.

Personally, I think broysc just did it himself. The empire is ridden with corruption without all of it being the Sith's doing. Broysc was just a nepo more interested in fucking prostitutes on pleasure ships than actually leading armies. It would have costed him nothing at all to just requisition quinn and groom him from there to be a loyal servant without having him waste away on balmorra. It doesn't change that quinn wouldn't know this and think baras just noticed his potential and decided to put it to good use. Quinn was clearly at his wits end anyways since you don't just threaten to shoot your subordinates unless the pressure is finally getting to you, which makes me question how Baras could have kept quinn motivated enough to be part of his plans for so long before meeting you.

[jolly depot]

The betrayal itself doesn't make sense either. I know that the game and the lore at least according to the wiki just assumes you spammed DS choices for every interaction but there's no reason why you would betray someone after serving alongside them for months, and how your betrayal could be so half-assed that you destroy both robots in less than two minutes.

It also doesn't confirm the "secretly loyal alpha legion 50000D chess quinn" since we get no interactions that indicate quinn ever sabatoged his own betrayal efforts to try and save you.

The whole character arc was botched and I honestly don't think any betrayal would have been necessary but we have to take quinn's story for what it is. No matter how good or bad the writing is, he still betrayed you and broke your trust so I see why people hate him.

[uneven quartz]

Quinn is smart, brilliant even. But for all of his calculating, he cannot calculate The Force or the rate of progress that the SW goes through. Or, the fact that the SW had just never been tested at all and needed to unleash his full potential. The dialog after the traitor fight with Quinn makes it seem like the fight was terribly effortless for the SW, but that can indicate any number of things. One of those being a "low power" on the droids, sure, but many other things and factors too. Also, i doubt Quinn would have set his Droids to a non-lethal level. Again: he's Baras' lapdog and wholly believes in him. And Baras subsequently decides the SW should die and is an enemy of the Empire/ his plans.

Later on when you encounter Baras he even comments on Quinn's aptitude and applauds you for using him as a resource, basically. So even Baras puts stock in Quinn's capabilities. Quinn and Baras are almost like two brothers who believe in one another at a very on-the-surface level. Baras didn't send Quinn against you to die, he believes that Quinn is a highly useful resource; Quinn didn't think he was being setup or betrayed by Baras, he was told what to do and sought the most effective means to do it. That ended up being luring you solo in to an ambush and trying to kill you with two optimized battle droids.

And i don't believe for a second that somebody as accomplished and decorated as Brosyc did it himself. The Moffs have a hierarchy and everything, but you don't hear about them blocking meritocracy from shining, and Quinn is a paramount example of a rising star. He might have some personal animosity, but he wouldn't be the sole voice against Quinn if Quinn was truly unfit for higher duty. There would be an entire list of Moffs blocking his progression. But there isn't. There's just the one, who has a weird fetish with preventing this oooooone person from moving up the chain of command.

[subtle salmon]

Brosyc I assumed when he rose up higher gotten more paranoid and losing it

[uneven quartz]

That's certainly the sort of picture that Quinn paints for you.

[frigid parrot]

^ had no idea this guy was one of the good mandalorians that worked with Jedi.

Always thought he was a major antagonist in the Mandalorian wars.

[winter trellis]

Fortunately not every mando of that age was a POS

[clever ibex]

Only most of them

[winter trellis]

Only most of them

[maiden stag]

Only most of them

[jolly depot]

True, but it also makes you wonder what quinn was like pre-broysc incident. He probably learned to be a doormat after being punished for "insubordination" and was a completely different but equally as intelligent person before this had happened.

I just wish characters like quinn and broonmark had better arcs

[void pelican]

I think it's that baras's people are pretty much all used to cloak and dagger

his whole schtick is military intelligence with a dose of usual sith power building

so like, anyone he sees as useful is probably someone who can live a measure of the spy's life

[jolly depot]

As good as the space huns can possibly be at least

[frigid parrot]

Just came across an interesting opinion

Someone said that “Valkororian would have been a more interesting character if he were a separate character entirely and not just emperor Vitiate.”

Any thoughts?

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/s/0gDA0zWzY0

It definitely would have been a more interesting concept if Valkorian stuck around directly in KOTFE

[bright phoenix]

awful cringe pleb take

the whole thing that makes Valk cool is that he shapes civilizations. He has the time and the drive and the resources to engage in that kind of hobby, which makes him unlike any other character in the eu

[frigid parrot]

I can understand that.

I myself am neutral in terms of this. I like that Tenebrae is a Sith capable of using the force to live multiple lifetimes—which is something other Sith can only dream of doing.

I also like the thought of Valkorion being fresh new character and having a more direct role in the events of KOTFE.

[west sequoia]

Valkorion being yet another face for Vitiate is essentially the primary linkage between KotFE and the rest of the game

if you take out that linkage then it's just.. some random empire that's developed out of nowhere steamrolling the empire and republic, and not even at their weakest points, because.... ??????

it kinda needs that layer of "big bad evil Sith pulling the strings" to make it more comprehensible in the overall context of SWTOR

[keen delta]

well he is a separate character

[west sequoia]

only the one we actually arent familiar with and who is essentially dead by the time KotFE starts

[void pelican]

honestly

hear me out

make it be Darth Jadus somehow

retool it so it makes sense

but like have it be his ideal society -- an Empire where all know fear as the Sith do, where the tenets of the dark side are a universal code

[keen delta]

https://tenor.com/t37nEmxTVtO.gif

[void pelican]

to be fair this wouldn't really be anything like KotFE as we got it

but it'd be interesting

[keen delta]

so Valkorian would be the puppet of Jadus?

[void pelican]

yeah, make "Valkorion" just some local guy who's the figurehead on Jadus's cult

or heck make him be Jadus, i don't know

[frigid parrot]

I’d certainly rather Jadus have no relation with Tenebrae in any shape or fashion other than both being ambitious Sith.

I am curious as to what Jadus’s goal will be that will separate him from the likes of Malgus or Vitiate.

Certainly not another case of “Galactic Extinction” I hope.

[keen delta]

Jadus's plan is the worst

more cruel

extinction would be mercy

[west sequoia]

well their other relation is that Jadus was part of Vitiate's Empire

[west sequoia]

we see it enacted on a small scale in the finale of the agent ch1

makes me kinda think he actually had some indistinct relation to the Dread Masters

maybe someone taking up their cause in their assumed death

[void pelican]

that’s the thing, in this setup Vitiate would have exactly no connection to Zakuul

[jolly depot]

I just want jadus to have SOME comeback

At the very least he or his agents should be trying to hunt down cipher

[deep pebble]

i'm not sure if i really saw that or just imagining, during Scum and Villainy ops when we fought packs of rats in tunnels i think i saw a jedi statue similar to those on Ossus, i wonder what is it doing on Darvannis? i can't find any mention of history with jedi on the planet
or maybe it's just a trophy that cartel mercenaries brought there?

[west sequoia]

there's next to no lore for the dreadful/hateful entities

was probably just asset reuse

[subtle salmon]

Sounds funny a group of mercenaries would take one statue

[west sequoia]

the implication is that its a lot older

[void pelican]

yeah, the hateful is clearly older than oasis city being located there

[jovial ether]

So, there is this guy on Reddit that I briefly talked too, and he stated that the original Vitiate/Tenebrae was rotting in Chaos or stuck in his Sith Tomb.

He admitted that he doesn't know, and that Chaos seems like a more plausible explanation, but does anyone know where he got the idea of Vitiate possibly being in a tomb came from?

[bright phoenix]

he says it right there, it's just what he thought

in actuality

the game says the body got turned into the mind virus

so there's no body anymore, I guess it went poof as kira and scourge destroyed it

that's what the markings do ig

[jovial ether]

Yes. I think it evaporated into a red steam/misy/energy and fire that was the plague.

[bright phoenix]

yeah and the markings are the instructions I guess, just a mechanism waiting to be activated

[jovial ether]

I wonder how the science behind the plague works...is it spiritual, physical biology, or a combination of both?

Is the mental imprint itself the plague, or does the plague just contain and create the imprint?

Are they altered mutated Midiclhorians or pure force energy?

[bright phoenix]

spiritual or mental plague happening in the 5th dimension

[jovial ether]

How does destroying the imprint destroy the plague?

[bright phoenix]

activated by the instructions on his corpse in the 3rd dimension

[jovial ether]

Is the mindscape in Echoes of Oblivion the mindscape of Satele, the plague, or both combined?

[bright phoenix]

I think it was supposed to be Satele because the Temple is so prominent and Theron says he doesn't care to see it

Satele rescues Kira and Scourge, so Satele is the new base for the plague

[jovial ether]

Oh. So the mindscape disappeared after the plague died, or it rebooted or remained the same way it was?

[bright phoenix]

before that it was probably whoever stabbed the corpse

[bright phoenix]

well the plague has no host, so that means no mindscape

everyone who was in danger of being corrupted regains their individuality and their minds are healed

[jovial ether]

I wonder why the mindscape didn't immediately disappear when Tenebrae's three forms collapsed into dust.

[bright phoenix]

we were still in Satele's instance, she's the main host, it's her session

[jovial ether]

Yeah, I didn't understand what exactly happened in between the final battle with Tenebrae and the talk with Satele.

[bright phoenix]

but why was it still dark and gloomy maybe that's just a technical constraint

[bright phoenix]

we were the last person still logged into her mind I think

can't remember

or maybe she can direct message us within that session

[jovial ether]

And it presumbly dissapeared after that right?

[bright phoenix]

Satele's mind is left alone yeah

[jovial ether]

When the player speaks to Satele after the battle, is the plague still there and yet to fade away or is it already gone?

[bright phoenix]

iirc it had some odessen scenery in the background

so probably faded away

or in the process

[jovial ether]

Is the plague itself sentient, the imprint, or does it just host the Tenebrae imprint?

[bright phoenix]

still in Satele's mind, but it was healing and she was in control again

[jovial ether]

Darkness was being bathed and burned away by the healing of Satele's mind.

I like to think of the plague as a cold darkness that consumes all it touches, it is a cold abomination that can only be destroyed by being metaphorically burned by the touching embrace of the pure light of healing and the Force, and that is what happened when Satele destroyed the imprint and healed her mind.

Maybe the plague is mutated Midiclhrorians containing a corrupt essence?

And the Corrupted Midiclhorians just sizzled, burned up, evaporated, and dissolved into nothingness once Satele healed her mind and the essence of the plague began burning away/disappearing.

The Plague....

[jovial ether]

So...back to this...is there any theories/backup lore that lead this guy to have that thought, or is he just purely speculating/guessing?

[unborn brook]

Well... The guy’s just going based off what we know... EoO is Tenebrae’s save file. His body is the floppy disk he put the save file on...

[unborn brook]

We’re still in Satele’s mind and the plague is poofed away by then...

[jovial ether]

So he might be guessing that the body is still there in his secret location vault? Or "tomb"?

[unborn brook]

Likely...

[west sequoia]

entirely possible that the hand could have moved it after SoR but I have a strong feeling that Vitiate's body was on Yavin during that time

likely in a more secure and isolated location than the ones we visited, but still on Yavin all the same

and sadly this connection never gets touched on (because its a player choice and faction variation) but if you properly recover the dread seeds as an imperial player, Acina puts them in storage on Ziost

[unborn brook]

Agreed... Likely was on the forth moon of Yavin

[jovial ether]

What is Chaos anyways? A place of eternal torment like the popular depiction of Hell? A place where you slowly fade away from existence? Or is it just another term for annihilation?

[winter trellis]

Some vague thing one writer came up with that is largely ignored by the rest of the setting

[jovial ether]

Actually you are right. I don't know why people use "Chaos" a lot when talking about the fate of Tenebrae's spirit.

[bright phoenix]

yeah, basically everyone gets recycled by the cosmic force

[jovial ether]

Ummm....why does this Amino Apps page have a picture of Vokk when the topic is about Vitiate? LMAO...https://aminoapps.com/c/star-wars/page/item/darth-vitiate/6YFY_IPzpxYGBRKNqk2mxYpY5jRxgv

[maiden stag]

Vokktiate

[jovial ether]

In YouTuber Pene Patrol's "What if Vitiate returned during the Clone Wars" video, he superimposed a custom Vitiate model onto Vokk's face for the thumbnail...

[jovial ether]

Vokk is such a random, unimportant Sith dude. Have no idea why they put a picture of him when it is supposed to be Vitiate.

[maiden stag]

I can barely tell the two apart

😂

[jovial ether]

In the original image or the thumbnail?

[unborn brook]

Vokk? You mean the guy in the Republic Essiles FP? “A real live Jedi...”

[jovial ether]

Yes. That Vokk.

[jovial ether]

In the link above, they used this picture of Vokk for Vitiate's biography...

[unborn brook]

Poor Vokk!!! He just wants a Jedi kill... Lol

[jovial ether]

Hehe.

[subtle salmon]

Want to show big disrespect and embarrass him, beat him as a trooper or smuggler

[maiden stag]

"A real live Jedi- wait you're not jedi-"

Or can really disrespect him by killing him on sith combat style

[subtle salmon]

Lol

[unborn brook]

Before the Fight
Vokk: Finally a real live Jedi!!!
During the Fight
Vokk: You fight like a Sith?!!! No fair!!! I wanted a real live Jedi, not a traitor cosplaying as a Jedi!!!

(lol)

[jovial ether]

Vokk is such a lame bossfight imo, lmao.

[maiden stag]

Still better than yadira ban...

[subtle salmon]

The Black Talon final boss, yea she was a padawan that was acting full of herself

[jovial ether]

Well, yeah, I can say that too.

[jovial ether]

I wonder why someone would use Vokk on a biography for Vitiate. If they played SWTOR, they must know that that isn't Vitiate but Vokk right?

[unborn brook]

Because Vokk looks cool? (And is easy to photoshop Tenebrae’s Voice host onto it...) Lol

[jovial ether]

I guess. Haha.

[jovial ether]

You are right about it being easy to photoshop Vitiate's Voice onto Vokk, haha.

[unborn brook]

Anyways... We need more Tenebrae representation... No more Voices!!! No more Valkorion!!! We want more Tenebrae!!!

[jovial ether]

What I want is to see an official visual illustration of a giant tall Sith Pureblood Tenebrae with black eyes and heavy black robes with a hood, just as how he is described in the Revan novel.

The closest we got to seeing a visual illustration of him is this..

[jovial ether]

Yeah, that is how he was descrobed in the novel. A young, healthy Sith Pureblood who is very tall and giant for a Sith, and has the iconic pitch black eyes, and clad in heavy unadorned black robes.

[jovial ether]

With a hood effectively hiding his face.

[unborn brook]

Bah!!! Why see Tenebrae cosplay Sidious? I wanna see manbun Tenebrae from Echos of Oblivion!!!

I wanna see him be that “Umm actually” nerd... Lol (Cus he’s a scholar)

[jovial ether]

At least I wanna see a tall giant Tenebrae like how his height was described in the novel. He was as tall as a standard Sith Pureblood in Echoes of Oblivion, which kinda disappointed me imo when I expected him to be much taller.

But yeah, other than that, Echoes of Oblivion Tenebrae is cool, I just wish we saw how he looked like in the Revan novel too.

[unborn brook]

Naw, we already have a Vitiate host in black robes... We don’t need Tenebrae proper in boring robes...

[jovial ether]

I guess. I at least had wished that EOO Tenebrae was tall.

[unborn brook]

Well... Bossfight Tenebrae was super tall... So you got your wish... Lol

[jovial ether]

Yeah, at least I got that, haha.

But that was like, SUPER tall in the bossfight.

What is more interesting for me though is what his throne room canonically looks like. As there are inconsistencies between TOR art and how it is described in the novel.

[unborn brook]

Exactly, taller than a Sith Pureblood... Lol

[jovial ether]

Well, you got a point there...haha.

[unborn brook]

Boo!!! I was hoping the Kaggath that sparked the rebuilding of the Imperial Citadel happened after Revan’s imprisonment but apparently, it happened long before Exar Kun’s rise to power...

[jovial ether]

It was before Exar Kun's rise to power after looking it up. Anyways, by the time of the Great Galactic War, was Vitiate's Empire even aware of the past histories of Exar Kun's Sith Empire and the Sith Triumvirate?

[unborn brook]

Yeah... Probably... They knew about Malak’s attack on Taris and I believe they mention a holocron of Nihilus being on Taris... I don’t know about Freedon Nadd or Exar Kun though...

[jovial ether]

When Nadd was alive, he was a Sith Lord, right? Why did he just rule as king of Onderon and made the Naddists instead of a full fledged Sith Empire like Exar Kun and Revan would do later on?

[unborn brook]

Umm... Cus he wanted to avoid the Jedi while growing stronger?

[jovial ether]

I guess that makes sense.

[sinful pawn]

did anyone ever try to unearth the history behind the main chars that we play as

and i mean their stories before we start palying as them

for each class

all i know is that the sith warrior probably comes from nobility

and the inq was ensalved but has a rich family history

since tulak hord done did his ancestor kallig

the others?

jedi knight is very good in martial arts but thats it, consular was an unusually powerful user since they were a kid

the smuggler had a ship, the trooper did some time in an academy, the bounty hunter i guess did usual bounty hunting until he met braden, and the imp was in an academy again until he got accepted or she, you get me

[unborn brook]

That’s basically their history...

[sinful pawn]

so that's it?

there's no other hidden details?

[frosty void]

i mean, its an RPG, thats kinda the point

[winter trellis]

Allows players to RP their background

[frosty void]

ok so, been rewatching agent cutscenes

what actually is consolidationism

[west sequoia]

within the context of the agent story and how it's applied to the Eagle's network I'd say the opposite of expansionism but here's a more dictionary-based definition

kinda true in that regard because they were proxies for Jadus who was making a bid to control the entire Empire

[void pelican]

rhetoric calling for the empire to get its own house in order before striking out, maybe?

[west sequoia]

one of the things the eagle specifically calls out is the infighting so yeah

[void pelican]

But since critiquing the infighting is critiquing the Sith, he’s a problem that needs to be expunged

[zenith zinc]

Woops wrong channel

[west sequoia]

so this is the obvious bit but still spoilery: the hand don't actually do anything to help you until you prove by your own strength (surviving the ambush on quesh) that you can take anything baras throws at you

this part is where some hypothesizing on my part comes through: we know Scourge had his vision, and that Vitiate was leeching visions of futures through his imprisonment of Revan in the Foundry, and Servant Two is stated to have a deep connection to Vitiate that isn't fully understood

theory: he knew that Scourge was inevitably going to betray them to assist the Hero of Tython so his statement about "an empty Hand can only slap" doesnt immediately mean Scourge has vacated the position

there are briefly two Emperor's Wraths

theres a sense of urgency around the entirety of the knight ch3 which makes me think it starts the latest out of all of them but quickly catches up (at least in terms of the republic stories) when you get to Corellia

Fulminiss' thing on Voss certainly doesn't make any sense if its allegedly happening at the same time as the Warrior trying to free Vitiate from the Dark Heart via the death of the Voss Voice

I also think that the knowledge that Vitiate discovered within the Dark Heart is what enabled him to attempt the broader-scale galactic ritual

i'll have to find the exact lines later but Vitiate says the knowledge he had already gained would lead to his 'ultimate victory'

[unborn brook]

Possibly...

[void pelican]

to be fair the republic stories hit corellia after the empire stories

[subtle salmon]

BH heard was first and unsure what’s last

[west sequoia]

agents the last impside story on corellia

[subtle salmon]

Pub side I’m thinking one of the Jedi classes were last

[west sequoia]

tossup between smuggler or consular as to who finishes on corellia last

overall because of the assault on dromund kaas, knight finishes their class story last

[jovial ether]

Okay, this is a question I have been wondering lately....

How "immortal" is Vitiate?

Many statements in the SWTOR Enclyclopedia, and even the codex entries, stated that Vitiate's life was "prolonged."

However, other sources, such as the same SWTOR Encyclopedia and the Revan novel, stated that he is actually immortal. In that he can not die of age, time passing, or sickness.

Why did he move to host bodies such as the Emperor's Voice then?

[jovial ether]

Plus, how was he able to move his essence from his body to host bodies while keeping his true body alive and/or functional in stasis?

Did he make himself brain dead through a Force ritual or what?

[unborn brook]

He’s unaffected by time/age/illness

But his body can still be killed... So with his floppy disk save ritual carved into him and the Voice host bodies, he has a backup to the backup...

Revan almost killed him in the Revan novel... Or so many have said...

[lucid agate]

Basically he turned himself into an absurdly powerful possessive spirit, arguably perhaps as close to godhood as a Force user has come

[west sequoia]

Revan, basically

he expected his ritual-induced longevity and the isolation of his Empire to keep him safe

[lucid agate]

His host bodies could probably still age (though presumably he used his powers to lengthen their lifespan) and his primary host (the Emperor's Voice) dying still hurts him quite a bit, forcing him to feed off the deaths at Yavin

[west sequoia]

his primary host is his original body

[lucid agate]

and head to Ziost to begin an impromptu planetary reenactment of The Crazies so he could do another Ritual of Nathema to regain all his power

Actually, his original host body had a backup consciousness

which is what we dealt with in Echoes of Oblivion

[west sequoia]

that was the ritual enscribed onto it that was only activated with the death of his original body

[lucid agate]

Ah.

[west sequoia]

Vitiate used so many host bodies precisely because Revan almost killed the original

[lucid agate]

But basically, he was practically as immortal as you could get with Force powers. I believe though, that his story has a mostly unstated point that no matter how powerful you get or what tricks you devise, one day death will catch up with you.

[west sequoia]

as immortal as you could get through the use of the dark side

[lucid agate]

I say "mostly" because the player gets a chance to outright say as much to him

He could apparently use the Light Side as well to at least some extent, if that one battle phase where he swaps between the two sides was any indication. (He'll also describe each side of the Force, specifically whichever the protag is on, as not being enough)

[jovial ether]

Sorry for replying late, but how did Vitiate exit his OG true body in the first place? Vitiate tells the new Emperor's Wrath in the SW storyline that he can only transfer his essence if his current shell gets killed or dies.

Did he kill his original body?

Is it dead?

Or did he somehow manage to transfer out of his original body into Voices without killing his true body and kept it alive?

[subtle salmon]

I assume his old body was killed and is just a pile of skeletons now

[jovial ether]

But he kept his body in stasis and it was a conduit for his spirit in the physical world, according to Scourge in "Lingering Darkness" quest in Onslaught.

[clever ibex]

He kinda forgot he didn't have to do all dat I guess

[unborn brook]

I doubt his Black-eyed, ritual-carved body was killed... At least until Kira and Scourge... Who knows...

[west sequoia]

if i remember right this is specifically talking about the voss voice

"Sel-makor makes suicide impossible"

not even getting into KotFE's marginal retcons, we see him release his control of a host body in vanilla without the host body dying

[jovial ether]

Okay that makes sense.

[mighty coral]

I am realizing the fall of the SIth Empire is a bit silly, now I only know a few things about who is killed in terms of command because I've only done the Trooper Story and know you kill the Sith Emperor as a Jedi Knight, but the fall is a bit silly.

Corellia was a massive screw up. Multiple Lords executed by the playing character, three members of the Dark Council murdered including the most influential, and the almost complete collapse of the Emperors Guards on the planet. The whole push for Corellia was a bit of a joke and a bad move, they could have bombarded the planet instead. I can see why those would further the fall, but they have to have more in command. I suppose that's why it held out for so long still. With Rakton either dead or locked away depending on players choice, there have to be a bunch of other competent Generals that pose as a massive threat. Rakton was just insane.

I can understand the death of the Emperor being a problem, but all it did from what I know is a power vacuum that continued to play out till Legacy of the Sith. There are a lot of statistics here that play, but the fall is a little silly for a massive regime.

[zenith zinc]

Yeah but I feel like it sets up what's gonna kill the empire

Comical levels of infighting

[west sequoia]

theres been basically no infighting for the last

8 years?

[maiden stag]

all the infighters are dead after the whole eternal empire thing id imagine (the ones that survived the base game)

[winter trellis]

No it's very much still there. Acina just got it under lockdown better

...assuming she's still alive

if not it's even more of an issue

[west sequoia]

the game content says otherwise

even with vowrawn as emperor who they've already decided via out-of-game lore articles is far more accepting of infighting, theres nothing in the game that actually reflects that

[mighty coral]

The problem with the infighting is arrogant Sith who wish to take control instead of following, that's why the wiser ones were more powerful. Unfortunately it is how Darth Bane created the rule of two if I remember, not just because the wisest ones were struggling or dead, but because of Sith incompetence to unite.

The Sith Emperor and others were uniters, and without those to keep them in check it fell because of incompetence and arrogance.

[zenith zinc]

At this point through

[mighty coral]

Actually why the secret enclave of Sith during the Clone Wars survived was because they united in a small enough gathering to avoid such infighting or hopes of killing the Jedi

[zenith zinc]

I do agree with Varth

I feel like at this point the only really sensible way for the empire to fall is because of the republic.

[west sequoia]

which

isnt sensible given the games recent writing

[zenith zinc]

I imagine and hope it's gonna be like this

[west sequoia]

but that failure is on the writers

[zenith zinc]

Since the spilt of the timelines

I hope which side wins depends on which side the character sided with

[west sequoia]

thats assuming the writing ever goes back to the faction war

[mighty coral]

Saying the fall of the Empire was because of Raktons death and the Emperors is a little, eh given they were still fighting HARD

From Illum to the battle of Tython

They had a rather all over the place strategy, but they still dealt heavy blows

Compared to the Empire created by Palpatine

Where a bunch of Govenors just took rule and tried to play dictator before getting mauled

It was more Republic incompetence that lead to the attack on Tython it seemed, like how the Sacking of Coruscant happened

[west sequoia]

the Revanite crisis was exactly that

[zenith zinc]

I always figured that was so more because the Revanites were playing both sides in a bid to weaken them both

[mighty coral]

I do not know the Revanite Crisis

[west sequoia]

Revanites on both sides compromising various factors that allowed them to get away with the Tython/Korriban raids

[mighty coral]

So I will avoid spoilers on that front lol

[zenith zinc]

Keep playing the expansions then

Oh

Sorry lol

[mighty coral]

All good, I need to

Going to do it soon on another Toon, since I'm going to be replaying

[mighty coral]

Was that why that final boss had a Purple Saber or was it just a Bioware screw up?

On Tython Assault

[west sequoia]

which one

[mighty coral]

The mute sith lord as the final boss on Assault on Tython

[west sequoia]

probably

the initial strike team on both sides are the Revanites

[mighty coral]

And Republic Intelligence thought it was a Sith Lord from the Sith Empire

[west sequoia]

well they're not openly Revanite at that point

[mighty coral]

From the Codex about it

Well that's what I mean

"A Vengful Sith Lord attempted to liberate Tython"

Probably undercover, yeah

[zenith zinc]

Wdym

[mighty coral]

So the boss on Assault on Tython is named Lord Goh, a Mute Sith Lord with a Purple Lightsaber who is a Chagarian. I sat there wondering, "Why is this man's saber purple?"

Oh yeah I just looked it up

"Goh is part of the "Shadow of Revan prelude" storyline"

So yeah Goh was a Revanite

[west sequoia]

pretty sure there are ordinary sith in the game that have purple lightsabers but Goh is definitely a Revanite

[mighty coral]

Yeee I am seeing here now lmao

I didn't look before

That makes more sense now

And yeah there are Sith in the game with purple lightsabers, which is jarring at times

Considering how Purple is supposed to be a uniting of Dark and Light and isn't common

[zenith zinc]

There is

[sinful pawn]

so unfair that as consular you get a green crystal for free but as inq you don't even get a purple

[winter trellis]

The last expansion if you are an inquisitor can end with you just murdering the dude in your chair

And the current major antagonist is a renegade sith who broke away to do his own thing

And the basic principles of strong replacing the weak is still a fundamental part of sith doctrine

Just because they don't take a second to emphasize it in an already bloated storyline doesnt mean its gone

[mighty coral]

I just really, REALLY hate the ||Trooper DS or LS choice in the ending of the origin story||

It makes no sense

Corellia Republic Ending: ||Putting the dude that betrayed the Republic into CorSec jurisdiction is a dark side option? But luckily you can make it so that Corellia has control of who to vote for next with CorSec giving up government power afterwards.||

[jovial ether]

Man, I can't believe I spent all the unnecessary time and effort with AI to make a scientific biography behind the physics, metaphysics, and science on how Tenebrae's plague and mental imprint works.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/10qrLs03pZojbritI4b-NQ9UPIP9KKbZTLDHPRyMWAoo/edit#heading=h.56m6mp6gnysk

[mighty coral]

Why AI?

[jovial ether]

No idea why I did, I just did for some reason.

[zenith zinc]

@mossy turret This might interest you

[mossy turret]

:O

[mighty coral]

I decided to delve into Nuclear Weapons in the Star Wars universe and it is interesting that the first ones documented to use Nuclear Weapons were the Mandalorian Neo-Crusaders in 3963 BBY

I want to find out which species was the first to invent atomic power honestly

The last time nuclear weapons are mentioned in any lore is 2 ABY of a deceased civilization

From looking at the earliest Empire, the Infinite Empire and the Rakata, it seems as if the Rakatans were the first to have a Nuclear Arsenal?

From lore in quote "A number of Rakata tribes in the Unknown Regions were known to have stolen whatever they were capable of carrying from the storehouses of the idle Star Forge before fleeing in advance of the nuclear war that emerged between the warrior and priest classes."

I swear the Rakatan Empire was generally insane. The Star Forge, Cannibalism Society, Artificial Intelligence

I was right about a theory I was thinking of I had a few days ago about the Flesh Raiders being some part of the Rakatan Empire though, they were a lower caste, Slave Soldier essentially, now looking in further

Tython Spoilers for Jedi: ||You know, with the Flesh Raiders gaining Force-Sensitivity where the Rakata lost it, that would have become a MASSIVE problem more than it was becoming if the playing character didn't stop it.||

[keen delta]

why is this channel dead

[subtle salmon]

Not much lore stuff going on and think some use the other lore place sometimes more

[jovial ether]

What is the other lore place?

[subtle salmon]

#legacy-of-the-sith I believe

[jovial ether]

Oh, okay. They discuss the current lore of Legacy of the Sith expansion I presume?

[west sequoia]

not that much recently

its busiest in the time in close proximity to story updates

[subtle salmon]

Yea

[subtle salmon]

Honestly, which companions personal quests do people dislike?

[keen delta]

having to save people

[sinful pawn]

none of them in particular

they show what your companions care about the most

[maiden stag]

I dislike having to do side quests for my companions 💀

[somber ember]

so, i'm doing fractured alliances on my alt jedi shadow, pub toon,but i allied with the empire beforee this, prob cuzzh of saresh. if i stay allied with the empire what happens there after?

eh, i went back to the republic, just reading various sources like reddit.

[bitter cedar]

So far just saboteur stuff hopefully leading to something more in the future like a proper faction switch over , or dunno if they’re working toward something more cross faction-esc

[west sequoia]

they're not really heading in a cross-faction direction in the story

hmm there's something i'm curious to try on iokath now

[lunar forum]

I just wanted to check, are we able to just say spoilers here without the spoiler tag or are we still supposed to use them? I just wanted to clarify just in case

[coarse lintel]

You don't need to use spoiler tags in the spoiler channels.

[lunar forum]

ok sweet

[mortal gate]

Could someone please explain to me the Fractured Alliances arc... as it isnt making sense to me

[prisma portal]

you got too strong and needed a nerf

[west sequoia]

they could have done that in any number of ways

they somehow picked the worst

especially with the "super secret encryption that only 3 people in the galaxy know that was never mentioned beforehand and one of those 3 people is you somehow"

[west sequoia]

ah, shadow of revan

[mortal gate]

What is the repercussions of the first JuS Empire/Republic decision, esp as a Sith Warrior choosing Republic?

[west sequoia]

theres a bunch of options related to that choice in most of the story content following on from it

[mortal gate]

Such as?

Companions?

[west sequoia]

iirc the latest one got a lot of attention because it bugged out and people that were saboteurs didnt have the saboteur option available

[mortal gate]

Returning companions?

[west sequoia]

i dont wanna just spoil a bunch of stuff for you so in broad terms you become a double agent

[mortal gate]

Saboteur... that rings a bell but... I dont know why I remember that

[west sequoia]

Imperial saboteurs are working alongside the SIS, Republic saboteurs almost have a direct comm line to Xarion, the current head of Intelligence (among other things)

there are also conquest objectives available for small amounts of points based on your loyalist/saboteur alignment

its not a lot but its something

[west sequoia]

none specifically related to the saboteur stuff

[mortal gate]

Does it matter if a SW sides with the Republic again?

[west sequoia]

a bit. most of the saboteur stuff is factional but there's at least one option that's a class-specific dialogue sequence

[mortal gate]

Could you explain the saboteur thing a little?

If I choose the Republic as my faction (despite being a SW) does that mean I work for the Republic SIS and I am automatically a saboteur?

Does it always mean I'm a saboteur?

[west sequoia]

saboteurs are imperial players that align with the republic and republic players that align with the empire

in contrast with loyalist that align with their original faction

[mortal gate]

Ah!

So you are either a traiter/saboteur, or a loyalist

Got it

Thanks

[bitter cedar]

I wonder what ur curious about on iokath

[bitter cedar]

I wonder if they'd want to double down on the chaos and have some sort of Underworld neutral hub to perhaps replace the fleets

Like Port Nowhere as a player hub, but I think it'd be problematic to thin out the populations more if there was still pub imp fleets around.

But yeah I hope they can implement some sort of proper faction transfer for saboteurs if that is where the story is heading

[west sequoia]

"neutral hub to perhaps replace fleet" was odessen and it was a failure, there's just too much stuff on fleet for any real alternative

port nowhere is a neat place though, would be cool to have it universally accessible

[west sequoia]

i forgot to do it last time i was there but also i was kinda pressed for time doing high yield conquest stuff
basically getting past the enemy base guards and checking the mission board if the neutral missions still show up

[mortal gate]

Any repercussions flirting with Major Anri?

I mean, with a current romance already active

[sinful pawn]

port nowhere needs to look something like it's conterpart from guardians of the galaxy, minus the head and everything

[deep pebble]

it's weird they give spoilery codex entries before a npc becomes a companion, but i'm curious who G0-T9 is?

[bitter cedar]

Seems like a mystery at the moment

No other references to that droid I can find

Maybe just an Easter egg at a dev dnd character type of thing

[subtle salmon]

Maybe

[frosty void]

who is mentor for that matter

[deep pebble]

it's from Directive 7 flashpoint story

[midnight dune]

why is Quinn so stupid when he betrays Sith Warrior?

[deep pebble]

this is such a good question xD i facepalm every time i play SW and see that scene =(
i think he's lying to himself that Baras is good for the Empire because long time ago Baras saved Quinn and he thought he was obliged to pay that debt

[midnight dune]

I mean a lore accurate sith would turn him into second hand kebab meat

[midnight dune]

Do you guys kill Baras?

Locking him away is more shameful

Make him stew in his hate

His base dismantled, his scheme fumbled and his image ruined

But he is a good liar and could come back at you.

[prisma portal]

depends on the character

but out of 13 runs I think I only spared him twice

maybe 3 times

[midnight dune]

So kill him on a light side sith

[prisma portal]

well

you have to consider the implications

he's a powerful man with a huge network of agents

you know how easy it is to get stuff smuggled into and out of prison even nowadays

what's to say that he can' get in touch with people still?

even if he can't break free

he could still find ways to exact revenge

or to exert his influence in other ways

it's also questionable what that prison entails

yes, it might be able to hold a powerful sith

but is that possible indefinitely?

what if something iprobable happens like the attacks of the eternal empire?

will the prison still be safe, then?

[midnight dune]

Hmmm

So death is only way to stop him? @prisma portal

[prisma portal]

depends on whether your character believes in the safety of the prison, the stability of the emprie and the good in people

[midnight dune]

I mean he does try to kill you

More than a dozen times in last chapter

[prisma portal]

mhm

the two characters I remember where I did send him to prison

one of them just generally believes in the good in everyone and that nobody deserves death

and the other had the same reasoning as you: that a lifetime sentence would result in shameful reflection on his failures with his power takena nd his base dismantled

[deep pebble]

i'm surprised the entire Dark Council doesn't die from laughing if a sith (named Emperor's Wrath) spares the enemy not to torture or use in any other way but just cuz killing is bad
i mean how does it look from the outside?

[prisma portal]

the others that killed him did it either out of Rage, spite, indifference, bloodlust, a need for revenge, ....

[midnight dune]

Another quest that makes no sense is at the very start

A sith asks you to test academy professors for purity

Turns out they arent very sith

So they will kill professors over genes?

[prisma portal]

no

I doubt anyone loses their life over that

they just want the data to prove their point that the Sith have strayed too far from their roots or sth like that

to have a stronger position to advocate for pureblood supremacy or something?

[winter trellis]

The sith empire is full if bigotry

Some even more bigoted than the rest

[midnight dune]

What about failed students?

Can they try again another year to be sith?

[subtle salmon]

Think if failed they are killed

[winter trellis]

You don't survive yes

Survival of the fittest

[subtle salmon]

Think Baras even says: If you return with nothing, you are killed. If you die in the tombs, you’ll be forgotten.

Something like that

[midnight dune]

Any lore reason why wars lasted longer during Old Republic Era?

With Hyper Drives wars still lasted decades

Balmora alone was at war 20 years

But clone wars lasted 4

[unborn brook]

Seems like a waste, to risk his escape. I usually have my characters just get it done with it, one confrontation and done.

[midnight dune]

Hmm, sounds reasonable

[midnight dune]

Also why were wars longer back then?

More people to throw at the issue?

[unborn brook]

Clone Wars was manipulated on both sides, so it could have lasted longer had Sidious needed to.

[midnight dune]

Then there is the big boy

3rd Galactic War

We start it in the expansions, on wookiepedia it's stated it lasts 120 years

Our toons will die before the war ends

Nevermind, it lasts 106 years

Starts in 3628 bby and ends 3522 bby

So first war lasted 20 years, second war a handful of years

3rd war is god damn 5 generations of people

[bitter cedar]

Is that so ? I guess malgus rlly is gonna set the galaxy on fire

[midnight dune]

106 years of war started in Onslaught

[unborn brook]

We don’t really know if the war lasts that long, Wookieepedia is just speculating the numbers on this conflict...

[winter trellis]

Well if you want to get technical, the wars in TOR are all categorized as seperate conflicts

[west sequoia]

there isnt a definite end to the third galactic war yet

wookieepedia just says 3522 because thats the next date of something happening in the entire legends timeline

[bitter cedar]

Ah good that there’s room to maneuver for the writers

[midnight dune]

Can you beat the dlc without killing people?

I mean named npc's

I plan a purist light side sith warrior

[west sequoia]

nope

well, i guess it actually depends on your definition of "killing"

because combat has always been framed as defeats

you only get outright kills in cutscenes

but there's mandatory combat all through the game

[midnight dune]

@west sequoia but are we obligated to kill certain characters?

Think Valkorion at the end of KOTET

[west sequoia]

yeah

[midnight dune]

So difference between a light and dark story is wether or not we spare the mother and the son?

But the daughter and father have to die

[midnight dune]

I was thinking

make a really evil sith, but because the story is long he will turn around at some point

which point should a sith start doing good things?

[deep pebble]

for the warrior tatooine oasis makes sense the most

[midnight dune]

So evil on starting planet, capital planet, Balmora and Tattooine and then go light side?

Oh nvm, it's Nar Shadaa before Tatooine

[somber ember]

use fp's to swap DS vs LS is what i keep hearing

[crude tundra]

diplomat missions does ls/ds points

[midnight dune]

What would you describe light side republic trooper?

An incorruptible soldier of the republic?

[lunar forum]

What do you guys reckon of this explanation? I was curious about the relationship between lana and koth based on their interactions in kotfe and I feel this describes it pretty accurately

[prisma portal]

well the devs made it intentionally ambiguous

but that comment is pretty close to my personal interpretation as well

[lunar forum]

Yeah I feel they may have left it up to player interpretation by doing it like that
I also feel this makes the most sense, for me anyway. Just based on the characters personalities and behaviours

[mortal rover]

I mean I entirely see it possible that they dated for a while, and figured it didn't work so they mutually broke off things

[lunar forum]

I do as well, it’s hard to know because the dialogue can be interpreted different ways like has been said earlier. I’ve heard that it can depend on whether your character has romanced lana or not, not sure if that’s true though

I wonder if they made the dialogue fit different scenarios to save on animation time and cost

That way they don’t have to animate and record voice lines for different outcomes/context

[subtle salmon]

I assume if romanced Lana they might not have dated

[unborn brook]

Perhaps, though Koth seems to act like they did... So... At the very least, there might be some miscommunication...

[west sequoia]

Lana saying "its over" kinda suggests they did have something in the past

[mortal rover]

Still criminal that we can't marry Anal Kenobi tbh

[mild jetty]

You can propose to her. It's at the end of the zakuul stuff. Which means you've been engaged for years in game time. Hopefully some day in the future they add a wedding. For everyone else too of course. After date nights are weddings.

As for the Koth question, he seems to say no they didn't date in this scene, but he could be lying or downplaying it or soemthing.

[lunar forum]

yeah nim and others have said they made it ambiguous on purpose, most likely so it could fit different scenarios without the need for separate dialogue and conversations

i think if you dont romance lana or koth they end up together so thats probably why they set it up the way they did, so that character arc could work either way

[west sequoia]

its not that ambiguous

[lunar forum]

tbh im probably biased cos the platonic version suits my characters story better but i can definitely see them having had a relationship based on the dialogue and behaviour

[mild jetty]

I tested on a character that was romancing a class story crew member and planned to stay with them, so they had 0 flirts with Lana or Koth and that scene where Koth said they're just allies and friends was the same.

One other neat little thing I found out in that same test is that when you get stabbed by Arcann and your romance rushes in to save you, if you have never flirted with anyone then it defaults to Koth, and the third dialogue choice in this screen that is normally a kiss is just missing lol

[jovial ether]

I am still wondering where the hell Sel-Makor is by the time of KOTET if you chose to let him live in the dark side ending.

[west sequoia]

killed offscreen

he was the reason there wasnt any kind of peace between the gormak and voss

[jovial ether]

I wonder who else bought an end to Sel-Makor's reign if one follows the dark side ending if that's the case.

[unborn brook]

Voss Mystics are never wrong... The Interpreters can be... Perhaps they Interpreted another Voss Commando...

[humble hill]

I haven't reached that point in the story yet, but I already know about Valkorion and him being Tenebrae etc. But my question is: was he the "Reincarnation" of Tenebrae right from the beginning, or was he "possessed" by the Emperor? I think at some point, Tenebrae says that he has been working on Zakuul for a long time, but...what about his appearance as Vitiate in the JK campaign? He couldn't have been at two places simultaneously, right?

[west sequoia]

Valkorion is a Voice

the original Valkorion was a tribal leader on Zakuul before Vitiate elevated their culture to what we're familiar with

[kindred moss]

It's a Voice? Not his second body?

[west sequoia]

the Voices are kind of collectively Vitiate's "second body"

theres not enough information to put together a strict timeline of which ones came first

[kindred moss]

I thought the first body is Tenebrae, the one is Valkorion. And he had many Voices like the Voss one and the Sith Emperor

[west sequoia]

Valkorion was a distinct person before Vitiate discovered him

all of the Voices were, its just that Valkorion is the only one where we know anything about the person they were before Vitiate turned them into a Voice

[kindred moss]

So, the Voice should be Vitiate's host body

Thanks for explain!

[humble hill]

Thanks from me too

[coarse lintel]

@wet yoke Here!

[wet yoke]

Appreciate you, homie!

[coarse lintel]

[wet yoke]

This is the way.

So.... Being crowned the Champion of the Great Hunt felt really good, lol.

[prisma portal]

I bet

wish I could experience that for the first time again

[west sequoia]

oh right yeah this isnt just a crazy idea of mine

the dread masters literally see jadus as comparable to themselves

there's also "beast lord" mobs on Oricon, a potentially coincidental usage of the same Beast Lords of Onderon

but then one of Jadus' apprentices was from Onderon too

[west sequoia]

I wonder if we'll ever see more of Guss' Force master on Nar Shaddaa

the enigmatic Isaac

[bitter cedar]

Yeah I wanna see him tie into things somehow

[blazing flame]

Hello, does anyone know the real name of this guy https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Empire's_Wrath, it's bugging the hell out of me that I can't find his real name. Thanks.

[turbid peak]

Do you mean the actual actor or the character?

Because the Emperor's Wrath is the player character of the Sith Warrior story

[blazing flame]

The character I guess, I haven't played yet, although I'm currently reading a fanfic about the game that's making me consider it.

[unborn brook]

And the Wrath ain’t like Revan where there’s media outside of SWTOR (The Revan novel and KOTOR comics) fleshing out their story with canon info...

[turbid peak]

Ah well then I've spoiled it (though this is a spoiler channel). The Wrath is your character so they are who you make yourself out to be

[turbid peak]

This is a great explanation

[unborn brook]

I think there are only two classes with a “canon name” are the Agent and Inquisitor... Agent: ||Cipher Ninr|| and Inquisitor: ||Darth Nox/Imperius/Occulus||

[blazing flame]

Oh, I just saw the part on the page where it says he doesn't have an official name, my bad I guess. SO I guess his name would be whatever the player names him/her. Got it thanks, was very confused.

[unborn brook]

Oh wait... Three...

The Smuggler has one... (I always forget about the Smuggler... Lol)

Smuggler: ||Voidwolf/Voidhound||, if I’m remembering correctly...

[turbid peak]

I'm inclined to agree with this. Though I'd also mention Barsen'thor (sp?) the Consular. I can't remember if the Bounty Hunter does besides just being Mandalorian

[unborn brook]

But Barsen’thor is an official title... (And it’s heavily implied/believed we see the Consulars tomb in one of the Jedi Knight games, too but no canon name for them...)

[unborn brook]

And I think the Bounty Hunter’s just Mando/||Great Hunt Champion||

Glory to the Sith Order’s naming traditions... Giving canon names to a single nameless PCs... Lol

However, all classes have their own callsigns... With the space missions

[gilded rover]

Guys, I don't understand one thing about the plot. After the destruction of the eternal fleet, does the Commander stop being Emperor or what? Because I don't remember any mention of Zakuul since then. Maybe I missed something?

[prisma portal]

I think you eventually get some sort of notice that they declared independence

and you dont really have the resources to keep control at the time

[wet yoke]

couldn't you just create a new Bounty Hunter? When was the last time you did it? Sometimes it's been so long that it's like it's familiar, but at the same time new again. You know what I mean?

[prisma portal]

not that easy

it's my main class so I have like a dozen 🥲

[wet yoke]

HAHAHAAHAAAAAAAAA!!!! Damn, bro... Well shoot... Guess you're SOL, then, my friend, pending a memory wipe, lmfao.

[prisma portal]

yup

[subtle salmon]

I’m not only one that thinks the BH final boss is bit of a let down? Just thinking of times I thought his reasoning for going after the BH is stupid. Like Jedi die like every day and he decided to get personal over a friends death.

[upper badger]

wierd question but I could of sworn the "modern" as of swtor anyways, Massassi on Yavin were mutated members of the sith pureblood warrior cast augmented by into what they are by Naga Sadow now Exar Kun, was this a retcon? Or was I misinformed?

From what i've surmised, basically at the time of SoR these were suppose to be the people that eventually evolve into the Massassi first mentioned in legends, as I recall my dad being mad about them, as he never read any old republic stuff and just recognised the names from legends, and assumed they were just humans.

Then I looked into the comics lore, and saw theyre just what the ancient sith called thier warrior cast/subspecies with the more traditional socerers being the kisai, but I swore Elara and a couple npc said they were alchemically augmented via Naga Sadow when he fled to yavin and left here to devolve into the savages we see in swtor.

And presumably eventually evolve into the people in the original trilogy legends material my dad mentioned

If they were augmented to be this way as far back as Exar Kuun, Does that mean there coulpe be other Massassi Populations out there like the sorcerers of Tund? where a sith pureblood can lay claim to a more "direct" heritage to either of these Clans/Subspecies

That last bit is just some personal RP speculating for making up my Purebloods "family history"

[clever ibex]

If I remember right they were always massasi, just mutated by either sadow or kun though maybe both did some mutating on them

[unborn brook]

Could just be in universe contradictions... Talos might not know the full extent of Naga Sadow’s work in the Massassi breeding

[west sequoia]

Exar Kun is more recent than Sadow

so Talos is probably suggesting that he augmented them further than what Sadow did

[upper badger]

Oh okay, so Naga Sadow brought them here, and Exar Kun further augmented them? The Deshade acts like theyre capable of speech, So that means they are were at one point more "Sapient" Than they are today, that or theyve become increasingly weary of outsiders, and prone to Violence Was Yavin within the "Imperial Space" before the sith empire revealed themses like Dromand Kaas or was it like Korriban, abandoned within the Republics jurisdiction.?

The way my father described the Massassi in the novel, when compariing them which he cant recall which, he said "They're just human, theyre just Indians, but they didnt have red skin, or those wierd spikes" i'm remembering correctly, Nost of this is just to expand the lroe of a little tribe of them, that guard my yavin 4 temple house temple And the possible relation these Massasi may or may not have to my Sith Purebloods obcession with his heritage and legacy.

I am interested if there are Massassi out there, on other worlds.

Oh and uh that third group of ancient sith, had to google them the Architect cast. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Zuguruk

[upper badger]

I've got a theory, replaying Guss's recruitment quest and doing Dragons maw on another character. Is Issac suppose to be Watcher Izax? https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Watcher_Izax https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Isaac

[bitter cedar]

that is one possibility, and a theory that has come up before, I hope we can see some more of Isaac in the future to get some more context/background

[upper badger]

So far he's not even shown up to help train more force sensitives. But to me, this is plausably canon

For lack of a better candidate

[coarse lintel]

https://bsky.app/profile/thedavidhayter.bsky.social/post/3lbxdryxxkk23

David Hayter (@thedavidhayter.bsky.social)

This is a really fun interview. A rare conversation about my 15 years playing a Jedi in STAR WARS: THE OLD REPUBLIC.

Thanks @GamologyUS

#StarWarsTheOldRepublic
#Bioware

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyqW...

Bluesky · Nov 27, 2024, 8:01 PM

https://youtu.be/cyqWtiqGKIY

[jolly depot]

Is valkorion/eternal empire too OP?

[crude tundra]

[retty sure they nerf him for story reasons

[keen delta]

Yes

[upper badger]

So uh, where are they taking this parsec data from? Is this little blerb in the corner new, I thought they avoided giving measruements due to wanting to keep the galaxy map vague compaired to hte offical maps.

[coarse lintel]

Parsecs have always been on that screen, even before the update.

[upper badger]

okay

then i never paid attention to the blerb

So is this data just made up? the galaxy map has changed alot, but it still dosnt seem "accurate" to that older... probally nolonger canon one from the guidebooks

[coarse lintel]

It used to be above the travel button.

[upper badger]

AH

[crude tundra]

Do i need to romance torian in class story to romance him post kotef or can i skip class story route and start the romance in kotef

[winter trellis]

Class story

If you don't then the story assumes you didn't

[crude tundra]

damn

[somber cliff]

lets say i wanted to check out all the swtor revan lore. how much of it is free and how much is expansion locked? which ones are class locked etc?

and ig the emperor lore too

[winter trellis]

What do you mean by revan lore

Because most of revan's pre-swtor history is seen in the kotor games, the kotor comics and the revan novel

[unborn brook]

If they want only SWTOR content, then... Here’s the one EVERYONE can get (The free ones)
There’s the: (in order)

Imp: Dromund Kaas Planetary story

Pub: Taral V Flashpoint Story (two flashpoints: Taral V and Maelstrom Prison)

Imp: Boarding Party Flashpoint Story (two flashpoints: Boarding Party and The Foundry)

Pub&Imp: The Shadow of Revan Expansion (4 Flashpoints: Korriban/Tython, Tython/Korriban, Depths of Manaan, and Legacy of the Rakata; Rishi story with 2 Flashpoints: Blood Hunt and Battle of Rishi; and the Yavin IV Story)

Now for Tenebrae... Okay... Here’s everything that’s free (That I can recall)

Pub: Knight class story (Chapter 3) and Consular class story (Chapter 3)

Imp: Warrior class story (Chapter 3)

The Shadow of Revan expansion (Yavin IV and Ziost specifically)

Now for the subscription stuffs:

KOTFE & KOTET (The whole thing for Tenebrae)

Onslaught (For Tenebrae and Revan, specifically the mission Echoes of Oblivion)

And mentions of Tenebrae in Legacy of the Sith)

(I have missed a side mission on Pub Side Taris and a Planetary story mission on Imp Side Nar Shaddaa for Revan)

[somber cliff]

Dang that's a lot

But thx

[spare phoenix]

Are we gonna talk about the fact that Senya could have prevented the entirety of KOTET?

[clever ibex]

Yeah fuck her

[west sequoia]

by doing what exactly, she was already outclassed by her kids when they were still kids

arcann and vaylin chose their fuckups, nobody is to blame except them

[winter trellis]

she asked them to come with her

they chose not to

unless you expect her to casually murder her children without a second thought, which is not an easy thing to do, it's hardly a "could have prevented this situation"

[clever ibex]

And she robs us of great chance to kill Arcann

[winter trellis]

which can potentially result in him being redeemed and becoming an ally

especially since killing him is exactly what valkorion wants

[clever ibex]

Fair point
But I like killing and doing evil so still fuck her

[winter trellis]

boring

[clever ibex]

😭

[hollow reef]

snore

[clever ibex]

mommy says other kids just don't get me and I'm special

[spare phoenix]

She had Vaylin dead to rights but decided to just, not. Subsequently likely being the cause for millions of deaths

[winter trellis]

Which she regrets but we are talking about her killing her own daughter

Thats not exactly an easy thing to do

[spare phoenix]

True, but she's also like.. clinically insane and extremely cruel

[winter trellis]

Still her daughter. I don't have kids but I do have nephews who I love and adore and if one grew up to be like Vaylin I'd have a hard time putting them down.

Logic dictates I probably should but its not an easy thing to do

You still remember the good times you had

[spare phoenix]

I suppose that's true. I can understand trying to save Arcann but Vaylin is like a rabid dog, she kills knights like it's nothing, for instance

[winter trellis]

Like I said

Logic dictates she should probably be killed

But emotions are a rough thing

[west sequoia]

technically Vaylin's core issue was manifesting before she was even born

too much force power bundled up in the form of an infant/toddler/child

[winter trellis]

That too

[west sequoia]

@unborn brook so, technically a theory, but:
his dialogue on Voss in the warrior story calls the knowledge stored in the Dark Heart the key to ultimate victory

Voss was, until quite recently at that point, an entirely unknown world and culture to the rest of the galaxy

something within the dynamics of Sel-makor essentially being a sentient ball of hate was critical to Vitiate's galaxy-scale ritual

[unborn brook]

Yes? And the Knight story claims he’s using mass death as the catalyst for his brunch ritual...

[west sequoia]

he discovered that much which is why we don't overtly see him return to Voss, there's probably other stuff he was interested in and undoubtedly if his ritual had succeeded he would have returned there to collect as much information as possible before departing to another galaxy to continue his plan of living every possible life

the point is, at the time of the Great Galactic War he had absolutely no capacity to even start the galaxy-wide ritual

the knowledge obtained from Sel-makor on Voss was the missing link

what else would an ultimate victory from his point of view be?

[unborn brook]

Hmm... How curious...

[west sequoia]

and with the Knight being enthralled by Vitiate's influence for an indeterminate period of time, its completely possible that Orgus Din's spirit didn't help to free them until the Voss Voice had been disposed of

Vitiate is free to move in the rest of the galaxy, has the final piece of knowledge required for its initiation, and plenty of dedicated followers to create a mass death catalyst

and going back to the comment of "an empty Hand can only slap" when the warrior is first recruited as the Wrath

[unborn brook]

That seems likely...

[west sequoia]

in this it would seem that there are briefly two Wraths, but Scourge is occupied with keeping guard over the Emperor's Fortress and the temporarily converted Hero of Tython

I think this two Wraths situation is actually something intentional on Vitiate's part too, there's nobody else that could contain the Hero of Tython but at the same time he still needs a Wrath to deal with Baras

and frankly

[unborn brook]

This answers something I was going to ask about needing two of the same tool, in this case, a hammer (The Wrath)...

[west sequoia]

if he knew the galaxy-wide ritual at the time of the Great Galactic War

[unborn brook]

He’d likely have done it...

[west sequoia]

why didnt he just kick it off with devastating a planet during the course of the war?

[subtle salmon]

So the battle on Corellia was needed as well? Since thought the constant death was feeding him

[west sequoia]

the one we participate in as part of Corellia's planet story? nope, thats the lords of the council making an invasion plan completely blind to Vitiate's ulterior motives

Vitiate just uses it as a convenient smokescreen to deploy the converted Firestorm weapons batteries

[unborn brook]

Corellia, Voss, or Belsavis alone would have been good... (He likely planned on using all three as backup plans for each other)

Belsavis and Voss was likely Tenebrae’s intended routes... Sending his death cult and the Alchemist to do the deed...

[winter trellis]

That could potentially tip his non brainwashed followers into realizing what he REALLY wants to do.

[west sequoia]

he managed to sell the ritual of Nathema to the rest of the Empire as a devastating Jedi attack

he's not just a powerful Force user, he's a cunning manipulative bastard too

[unborn brook]

But why would that worry him? There’s mass death, so if that’s all he needed as a catalyst, bam, no conflict within his ranks.

[west sequoia]

he could possibly even twist the unknowing members of the Empire into directly doing his work, claim that the utter destruction of some planet would be a critical blow against the Republic

but again, the whole point of this theory is that it was something that was, at the time, far beyond his capacity

and it sorta loops into my other theory that there is in fact a power cap on the ritual

[winter trellis]

Yes but doing it again on a non sith world would raise questions, and during war time he would need his followers focused on the conflict. Not everyone under the empire trusted him after all

[west sequoia]

again, manipulate them into devastating likely a highly populated Republic world, claim it as some critial venture of the war effort

[unborn brook]

That’s what the death cult squad tried to do on Belsavis...

[winter trellis]

Not a guarantee they wouldn't investigate

[west sequoia]

the death cult weren't unknowing

[winter trellis]

Plus he didn't need to do it

[unborn brook]

Though it was more willing...

[west sequoia]

virtually nobody investigated Nathema

certainly nobody investigated it at the time

[winter trellis]

Yeah because he had just killed all his biggest rivals lol

[unborn brook]

And any who did tends to die (Nyriss and that era’s Dark Council) or stay silent (if any did discover anything and stayed tight-lipped)...

[west sequoia]

and he had manipulated the rest of the Empire into thinking the Jedi had launched some devastating attack against them

honestly given the amount of warhawks that were present in the GGW and upset by the Treaty of Coruscant, I'm pretty sure he could have easily found support, frame it as an act of revenge, demoralization, strategic denial of resources

and if it wasnt enough, if he needed another catalyst?
"do it again, prove to the Republic that this wasnt just a fluke"

[winter trellis]

Well we know revan was also influencing his mind

[west sequoia]

we know thats what Revan thought was happening

[winter trellis]

Plus due to his immortality doesn't care much on how long shit takes

Not to mention all that time he was working on Zakuul

Honestly he strikes me as a guy who, while capable of coming up with plans, is just content to watch shit play out due his arrogance.

[bitter cedar]

I think he let the war develop past its initial burst, for the sake of cruelty, suffering, pain, etc, for his ritual.

Also, the devouring of Ziost seems to be something he did in order to replenish himself for the most part.

like he was still full from Medriass/Nathema until he started losing Voices/hosts

[west sequoia]

Ziost was essentially to replenish himself after the failed galactic ritual attempt had expended so much of his energy

[winter trellis]

and being nommed on by sel makor, and being defeated by the hero which, while didn't kill him I think his host body dying while he's in it weakens his spirit

[jolly depot]

Can I romance broonmark

[zenith zinc]

No

[bitter cedar]

ah makes sense.

[midnight dune]

How evil is Lana?

[keen delta]

Not as evil as the jedi

She is a smart Sith

Not as smart as me of course but smart enough

[winter trellis]

Shes pragmatic but definitely has her harsh sides where she feels the ends often justify the means

[west sequoia]

lawful neutral

[subtle salmon]

Does the Agent story line ever mentioned Watcher One from the JK story?