the ambassador

[flint scroll]

Crits on headshot
-15% damage
-15% firing speed
-0.95 second cooldown per headshot

[languid kraken]

https://tenor.com/view/son-giftok-tom-tucker-family-guy-im-crine-gif-47048448267690577

[magic bronze]

you cant just give the spy the hunting revolver

[pliant fable]

That's a LITERAL VANILLA WEAPON with only a few tweaks that don't justify it, that's just creatively bankrupt! Are you seriously being ignorant on purpose? #faq

[flint scroll]

no, its just a foundational weapon for spy that gives him a lot of options whilst being increadibly fun, and balanced, and its a tragedy that the last time tf2 got updated the lesser tf2 devs that didnt know what they were doing listend to one salty engineer main that wrongly lied to them that it was a monsterous item in competitive

i know what the devs have said, but id say they seriously need to reconsider, their is a lot of TF2 weapons that are downright foundational to classes, or incredibly well designed, and if theyre going to limit themselves, i will point out how incredibly unnecessary it is, the market garden is an incredibly well designed weapons that are immensely fun to use, but instead of adding the market gardener, they decided to give themselves a shot at redesigning the weapon with the Admiralty Anchor, which i dont have an issue with directly, but you cant tell me that using the anchor feels as fun or as rewarding as the market Gardner would

[magic bronze]

nah man

I like that hefty chunka metal

[candid hill]

Sn*per

[pliant fable]

You've got to be really deluding yourself if you really think that this SDK mod needs more vanilla weapons on a global scale and that the devs should listen to you with no objections. They went creatively about it, and you already have the option to just... look for custom weapon servers with vanilla TF2 weapons.

Like, again, if I wanted to have Rescue Ranger, I'd just ask a server owner to add it instead of going for a global ahh suggestion that is already covered by the FAQ.

[flint scroll]

im not saying every vanilla weapon, but they need to add more than just the handful theyve chosen, because like i said their are some real diamonds in game development in TF2's weapons

[pliant fable]

Again, just go to a custom weapons server. Or, wait for alternatives because that's their SDK mod and their design philosophy for it.

[candid hill]

Ignoring design philosophys... Doesn't the Ambassador just turn Spy into a softer version of a Sniper with a cloak and a knife?

Also a weapon being "foundational" that isn't stock isn't exactly "balanced"

[flint scroll]

it doesnt, thats always been a myth / gimmick, a real spy playing properly is still going to stab people, and is often going to be fighting people at non sniping distances

[flint scroll]

not neccessarily, the gunslinger is kind of foundational to engineer for example, but its not overpowered and doesnt replace the stock wrench, its because he needs options for differant game play situations

[harsh mason]

I like the ambassador and think it’s a pretty well designed albeit problematic weapon in live but it just doesn’t belong in TF2C’s environment atm. The ambassadors core design goes against the design philosophy of making weapons that are theoretically direct upgrades with perfect aim/timing

[strange pendant]

The gunslinger is not foundational to engineer

It's just the only interesting engi wrench. That doesn't mean it was well executed or foundational to the class, especially when it de-emphasizes one of engis buildings

My hot take is that the gunslinger is probably the least interesting way Valve could have done an aggressive engi playstyle: by making engi a combat class

I think there were much simpler and much more interesting ways to do it without straying so far from engis core g ameplay

[candid hill]

Not to mention but it almost shafts Scout hard. Just like a normal sentry except it's much faster to build and it's cheaper.

I guess the same could be said about the ambassador, just not for Scout

[flint scroll]

its just an example, if you want to disagree then sure, but an item can be foundational without being strictly better than stock

[strange pendant]

In what way is it foundational? Imo, it's a regression of engis gimmick

It weakens his buildings in favor of making him more combat oriented.

[flint scroll]

if you want to disagree with the gunslinger, then sure, its not foundational, i dont care to argue, but their are items that are foundational without being outright better than stock, i was only using the gunslinger as an example

[strange pendant]

What makes an item foundational?

[night tide]

stock

[candid hill]

stock

[flint scroll]

it depends on the class really
the gunboats for soldier probably wouldve been a better example than the gunslinger
the gunboats are definitely not OP, and definitely arent better than the shotgun, but trying to imagine soldier without the gunboats is insane

[candid hill]

Not really? You just take more damage

Also it would give the Liberty Launcher an actual use, how about that?

It's a stupid argument but it isn't foundational lol

[night tide]

Gunboats just reduce the risk of using rocket jumps. Most consecutive rocket jumps use 3-4 rockets, which is within the health threshold of soldier, with or without gunboats

most of the stuff high-level soldiers do is stuff that was still possible even before gunboats were added. The main difference is that soldiers had the possibility of not immediately sacking after getting a few frags, so soldiers started going for them more often

not exactly a bad thing however

but dying versus not dying isn't exactly foundational

Over the years soldiers with or without gunboats have increased the number of bombs they go for in a match simply because it is strong, and gunboats soldiers sometimes just don't die afterwards

There are even roamers who run shotgun, and they still pull the same stunts

[river breach]

No thanks

Like, if you want to play a class that can dish out more damage and get around, play scout.

What especially turns me away from adding the Ambassador or most of the other live weapons is it's not an interesting addition.

Grenade launcher and cyclops
Minigun and AAC
Sniper and Hunting Revolver

There's more going on with those compared to the revolver and ambassador

[pliant fable]

And again, even then that'd be just copycatting, which Classified itself and its dev team have made abundantly clear in the FAQ that they don't want to just copy and paste any more live weapons on a global scale (and turn the mod into a vanilla TF2 clone with slightly more unique guns as a result of that). Custom weapon servers with live items exist for this very reason, dunno why can't the OP just use that instead of being creatively bankrupt to the point of suggesting vanilla TF2 weapons with very minor tweaks.

[languid otter]

Somehow I disagree with everything mentioned here

Amby is not essential to spy
Anchor can be as pleasing to use as market gardener
Amby and market are not exactly "well designed weapons"