Dells Decimator

[high charm]

Sorry for the AI slop it's just the general concept image, interesting yah?

[signal comet]

seems a bit op ngl

[high charm]

In hindsight yeah it might sound OP but you gotta keep in mind that this thing does use metal for ammo and you don't have a dispenser available so it kind of evens it out also by projectiles I meant rockets and grenades pretty much a counter to soldier and demo more than anything, bullets don't get destroyed, basically it's just a short circuit x5 I guess

[signal comet]

whats stopping a friendly engie from placing one nearby?

[high charm]

nothing, that's the value of teamwork 🙌

[frail crow]

✏️ (jumpscare)

[slim cove]

"Sorry for ai slop" how about you just don't use AI?

Also this is total bs.
"No heals or metal. But hey fuck you demoman and soldier, have fun not being able to pla, the game"

[high charm]

I dont have the artistic abilities to draw a concept image and commissioning an image for a spitball idea is kinda dumb ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[slim cove]

Neither do i, but doesn't stop me. Now does it

You don't need to be a master artist

[high charm]

kind of weird hill to die on tbh

[slim cove]

Idk how "don't use ai slop" is a weird hill

[high charm]

u do u pal have a nice one

[feral fjord]

you dont need artistic abilities to draw a concept image

[maiden tusk]

1. use an image off the internet
2. do a sketch no matter how bad it is
3. just dont include a fucking image its not hard

also yea this is way too hard of a counter

a dispenser and this just fully lock down a demoman from playing

if this were added it would NEED to not affect dynamite

even still

weapons that force opponents to pick a certain loadout are bad weapons

[feral fjord]

also any "bad" drawing made by a human will always be superior than anything generated

[maiden tusk]

agreed

[serene sinew]

A better concept, but still too good to be true, would be that you can activate it via alt fire, and it takes up 20 metal for each second it's being used.

And it would be like a backpack

A building with this would quite chaotic

Since you'd need to run too frequently to supplies

Unless you have a duo engie to supply you

But it's still quite a unbalanced idea tbh

(didn't read any comments from this post so idk other solutions, other than not even mentioning this)

[feral fjord]

seems quite turtley, i like it more as a weapon they'd actively have to use

[serene sinew]

I mean, i feel like as a building it is shit

There's so much different projectiles in-game that it would take up so much metal that you wouldnt even get a nest ready

And forget about sentries if it's a 'passive' building

[fading herald]

AIDS

[high charm]

This is mostly to counter demo and soldier, i cant think of any other class that counters engi as much as these two projectile wise. Don't know why people are up in arms about this since base tf2 has the short circuit (not that good imo), this is good to counter a team with a good amount of soldiers and demos, which I feel would prevent steamrolls from happening tbh.

[high charm]

Oh btw just to be clear, this is for the secondary weapon slot, that way it wouldn't interfere with the PDA selections

[fading herald]

have you ever asked why engineer should counter the two classes specifically designed to stop him from stalling forever

[high charm]

to win the match?... ya cant do area denial with demo and soldier spam raining down on you 🫥

[fading herald]

why should engineer be able to singlehandedly stuff his two main counters

it's like the issue with the Razorback like why should Sniper be able to force Spies to expose themselves

[earnest pendant]

The “Dell-cimator”

I’ll be out

[serene sinew]

short circuit is defo better

cause you don't need to place it everywhere

u can just take it out quickly

and you decided when it takes up metal

with the building you suggested - it's automated

tho you cannot even attack with it

besides - the short circuit is actually usable for multiple things, while the building has one

AND you keep your metal supply with the dispenser when using the short circuit

[slim cove]

Correction *"makes demoman and soldier unplayable, FUCK YOU"

[high charm]

Why wouldn't say it's better it's very situational at most granted I remember when it first came out I thought it was very neat item that they added but I rarely ever see it being used, the only instance that I ever seen it being used is on stage 1 of DustBowl and that's really it

[high charm]

It seems I may have rattled some cages which I guess is a good thing but irregardless these characters would still be playable, this is like getting mad because pyro counters spies

[serene sinew]

yeah just like your tesla tower it'd also be situational.. honestly. i can debate all you want that the short circuit is miles better than this idea.

[high charm]

We'll the tower wouldn't be situational because it's active consistently whereas with the short circuit you need to bring it out use it waste ammo and probably not get all the projectiles that you need. But it seems that you're just being a contrarian at this point and really there's not gonna be any convincing you so I guess we'll just call it at that.

[vernal ridge]

no dispenser is still bad

[safe shell]

youd deadass be better off copypasting an image of a tesla

that image is just generally a shit interpretation

the concept of having a building that completely shuts down demoman with no counterplay besides switching classes is

lol

[high charm]

The "counterplay" is just spamming that's literally the point, the more you deplete the engi of having to use metal to keep the tower running, he won't have metal to repair the sentry gun when it's getting shot by any hit scan weapon...

[safe shell]

uber heavy solos a sentry nest

no dispenser to keep teammates in the fight because you sac'd it for...

niche projectile defense

[deft gyro]

"this is like getting mad because pyro counters spies"

there's a large difference between "spies need to be careful around pyros, but can still slip past them or even take them out with smart play" and "almost all of Soldier's/Demoman's weapons now do absolutely nothing near this building get bent lmao"

[high charm]

If you kept tabs on the conversations throughout this thread you would know that I've made some valid points on how to counter this thing just because they won't be able to outright destroy a sentry nest with either rockets or nades doesn't mean it's gonna be a invincible god killer weapon. It's quite tiring reiterating my points, if you can't outright kill an engineer with explosives then you could at least dwindle the engineer's metal supply by having him to resupply the generator with power, again this isn't like some mega weapon it has a trade off and if you've kept tabs on this thread you would know.

[deft gyro]

there's a reason the Danger Shield isn't in Classified, and what you're proposing is essentially the Engineer equivalent of that
Demo has absolutely no non-projectile options, so he'd have to completely drain his ammo to get rid of it, and Soldier can only really use his rockets since firing a shotgun from outside the range of the sentry that would no doubt be right next to it would be mere chip damage

if the "counter" is to leave yourself near-defenseless by the time it's destroyed, then you functionally have no counter

[high charm]

No, the counter is to dwindle the engis resources while your team deals with the sentry, I feel like y’all are seeing this from a 1v1 perspective when it should be seen as a team effort it is called TEAMfortress for a reason

[safe shell]

so now imagine there's 2+ engineers with this

a greater field of projectile denying if they both run this, or a dispenser helping a team under a field stopping YOUR demos and soldiers from helping with the sentries

[high charm]

Good thing there’s 7 other classes as well, im sure they could be of some use to take those nests out

[deft gyro]

"it’s called TEAM Fortress"
oh boy here we go

name one other weapon in the game that prevents an entire class from doing anything about it

TF2’s design ethos encourages coordination with positive encouragement, not negative

[high charm]

I've already outlined thought this thread how this works and its counters, and anything in-between. Feel free to look into it, hope you find your answer(s). I've been repeating myself to numerous posters and it feels like were going in circles, have a nice day!

[deft gyro]

We have all been reading what you’ve been posting. Your replies to any counterpoints have just been regurgitating the same thing that was just talked about with different wording.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-by-Repetition

[high charm]

I could say the same about you guys, guess we'll just agree to disagree

[deft gyro]

(Before it even gets started: no, this is not an attack on you personally.)

[deft gyro]

very well, have a good one

[slim cove]

You literally remove 2 classes. What is there to disagree on

A demoman literally can't play the game if the enemy is in the field

To that you just say "well there are hitscan classes"
Like, ok and? How does that fix anything. You still removed 2 classes. It's plain dumb

Also demoman is kinda supposed to be good against sentries y'know?

[upbeat spire]

It would be weak to sniper bullet bc balancing

[slim cove]

??? How would you achieve that

It's a building that just bans 2 classes, what balancing exists there???

[upbeat spire]

I guess snipers still shoot down the thing???

[maiden tusk]

and if an engineer puts it behind a wall?

the main balance of hiding buildings around corners is having pipes and rockets to peek and blow them up

[serene sinew]

hm, well, you can just be one human tower with the short circuit? You can just stand near 1 or 2 level three dispenser(s) and spam the big balls? The tower only stops projectiles whenever there even is one, you cannot predict with it, decide when or what it will do. It'll just take up metal whenever a projectile apears. While the short circuit can be taken out anywhere, anytime and can even attack, you can focus the soldiers on yourself while they try and shoot your nest, you spam, when they reload you can rush with a shotgun. The short circuit is more mobile honestly, you're just trying to make a thing that completly removes your metal supplies just to counter the only classes that can defeay engie the easiest.

And keep in mind, if not for a dispenser you wouldn't really be able to upgrade, repair and give ammo to your sentry.

[willow slate]

this

[serene sinew]

You'd need to keep running to spawn or the nearest metal supply, which could just take forever unless you set your nest up in spawn.

[willow slate]

yeah dispensers are hard to replace

defensive devices that sacrifice metal gen make for extreme map dependence

[serene sinew]

If this was changed to be useable it'd need to be slightly changed

Or just made to replace a pistol

[willow slate]

my sentry replacement used the destruction pda slot lol

I like how the jump pad accessible thru the pda, lets me use whatever other weapon I like

[maiden tusk]

personally that isnt really a good idea - i would prefer if it were:
Primary/Secondary (we'll see who comes up with the best concept first): Dispenser
Melee: Sentry
PDA: Tele In/Out

[willow slate]

it uses the destruction pda slot cuz it's a bomb