#ADD A TIMER TO PAYLOAD RACE.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

cobalt comet
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PLEASE.

just make it the same as ctf where the match just ends if the map timer runs out

picture related

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wintry nest
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no

cobalt comet
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i disagree

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okay but seriously a server should not just get stuck on sisyphus for like twice as long as the normal map timer

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do this or make sisyphus not quite as Evil

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because it's annoying as hell when a whole server just gets stuck on sisyphus for an hour

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like is there a genuine design reason not to do this

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give me a real argument

wintry nest
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its fun and people can just rtv

cobalt comet
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people aren't rtv-ing right now

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and fun is subjective

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an entire server should not get stuck on one map like this

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every single other gamemode has a timer

wintry nest
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If people have the means to leave and know how to leave and do not take the steps to leave than the only reasonable assumption is that they do not want to leave.

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Is it getting stuck, or is it wanting to see the round to its conclusion because they are having a good time?

cobalt comet
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the round isn't concluding, that's the point

wintry nest
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The round ends when somebody captures the point and pushes their payload in.

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Wanting to see the round to its conclusion means that they want to play until that happens.

cobalt comet
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well okay but it hasn't happened for the past hour and it's kind of counterintuitive when a server that is advertised as taking place in more than one map becomes a 24/7 sisyphus map because nobody can win

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also why is this logic being applied to specifically payload race when ctf, which is infamous for having the exact same thing happen, has a timer

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it's inconsistent

wintry nest
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Because on ctf people don't play the objective most of the time. For plr, they do. The difference here being that even while playing the objective, people are having trouble capturing the point.

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Though again, if the majority of people want to leave the map, they can always rtv instead of playing the round to its natural conclusion.

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I understand the frustration though. Usually if I no longer want to play a map, I join a different server.

cobalt comet
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i guess, i just think it's annoying to have an entire server get stuck on one map for ages

wintry nest
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True, but that's why rtv exists. Can't really do much if people don't want to use the systems provided to them.

lost elk
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people shouldn’t have to be required to rtv for a map to end on a prolonged stalemate

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it’s not fun for 1 match to drag and drag and drag

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if CTF got that treatment, i don’t see why PLR can’t

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a map should be able to end without the intervention of commands

cobalt comet
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that's what i'm thinking

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i understand that the point of sisyphus is that it lasts ages but the joke's gotten old very fast

lost elk
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if people really wanted a map to last that long, they can vote to extend it

cobalt comet
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yeah exactly

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being stuck in a map for ages shouldn't be the default

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and plr, especially sisyphus, tends to lead to that

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hell, hightower is literally well known for dragging on

lost elk
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the expectation is that one map will last for the duration of the map timer, and anything extra will come from certain modes bleeding some extra time (like pl), or people explicitly trying to keep that map in rotation

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PLR shouldn’t get to hijack that just because it’s stalematey

cobalt comet
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yeah, it feels like plr is being treated differently for no real tangible reason

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when every single other gamemode has a point where it ends, including other symmetrical modes like control points and ctf

wintry nest
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Idk, I think it's fun, and I think that if most players in a server disagree, they have a way to force change the map.

cobalt comet
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if people think it's fun, they could just as easily vote to extend the map

lost elk
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it shouldn’t require a majority for the map rotation to function as expected

wintry nest
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Well, they can't actually, there's only one vote to pick the next map.

lost elk
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it should take a majority to extend a map

wintry nest
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I still think there's an important distinction between "another half hour" and "just until the end of this next round"

lost elk
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that same argument could be used to argue against a timer in ctf

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stalemates are indefinitely long

wintry nest
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I'd say the difference is playing around the objective or not

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In sisyphus the objective is always being contested and people are always trying to cap

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In CTF, people just kind ignore the objective to dm most of the time

cobalt comet
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does that not still result in the same thing though?

lost elk
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i don’t think enforcing the map timer should be discarded because people say “cap if gay” on ctf

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maps should be treated like people are going to play & win them

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but sometimes they don’t

wintry nest
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I hate to break it to you, but a lot of CTF rounds do actually last for a very long time because people refuse to cap in spite of the timer

lost elk
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but the show must go on, which is why the map timer exists

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if anything, i feel like because people play for the objective, it’s even more frustrating for rounds to extend so far past the map timer

wintry nest
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Eh, can't account for personal opinion. Pretty sure sisyphus is meant to be pretty stalematey.

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I think that's part of its charm, but if you don't like it, that's fair enough.

lost elk
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i like stalemates that lead into sudden death, but that doesn’t happen in plr

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it just goes nowhere forever

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i prefer to go somewhere

cobalt comet
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i feel like the joke stops being funny when an hour has passed and nobody has won

wintry nest
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I've not seen that happen yet but I'm jealous

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an hour on sisyphus sounds fun

crude pollen
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This is not a ruleset issue, it's a map issue

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If the mapper decides that the last segment should be 10s of straight pushing otherwise it gets reverted, that's on them

lost elk
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it’s also on everybody in the server

cobalt comet
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what if the respawn times were adjusted?

lost elk
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should really just sudden death or change level

cobalt comet
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like, if a team gets wiped they can't come back as quickly to just stop whoever's leading from capping

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i feel like that's the biggest issue

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a lot of people just kind of go around stopping everyone else from capping without actually capping themselves

lost elk
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I really think the mode could just use a timer

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would fix this issue on past, present, and future maps

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i haven’t stalemated hard on Sisyphus yet, but i’ve been on some gnarly 2nd stage pipeline stalemates

crude pollen
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When the evil map designers add a ramp at the end of the level becaue fuck you

gusty epoch
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I like it the way it is, and rtv exists

ornate hill
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plr is endless death match fun. thats kinda the point of it since ctf has a timer now

midnight tiger
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I don't understand some of the presented arguments here.

just rtv
Sounds like putting dust under the rug. And also gives off heavy "if you don't like it, then just avoid it" vibes — but that's NOT what this is (nor should be) about. The OP most likely made this suggestion precisely because they love the map/gamemode enough to care about making it an even better experience than the status quo.

"plr is meant to be stalematey(?)"
Not sure if I got things right, but that's kinda what some of the arguments sounded like to me. If you want deathmatch, then ask for, you know, deathmatch. Why treat a gamemode for what it wasn't designed for presumably in the name of "TF2 culture"?

I can't claim to have a better idea, though I'd be willing to experiment with solution proposals through a self-coded plugin and organized playtests on my server. I believe that @cobalt comet is making a very reasonable suggestion.

wintry nest
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Stalemates are not the same as DMing. They are still objective oriented.

midnight tiger
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Like I like PLR too but I wish they were more exciting and less sweaty

wintry nest
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I mean, fwiw I don't generally enjoy plr

midnight tiger
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"fwiw"?

wintry nest
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For what its worth

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Sisyphus and a separate map with a similar gimmick that is also 4team made by the same creator are the only plr maps I enjoy

midnight tiger
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I love any PLR map so long it doesn't end up in absurdly long matches

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Same thing with 5cp but that's another topic to discuss

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I'm being told: "push the cart to win."

And what I get is: (cart constantly goes back to previous checkpoint and I can't foresee the end of the game anymore)

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What's a match for if you can't even compete properly

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Might as well play a social game and I'd barely feel the difference other than mechanics/visuals

summer crystal
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it's strange how plr can extend long beyond the server's map timer yet other maps just. suddenly end when the server map timer's up without warning

wintry nest
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Me personally, I enjoy it when a map lasts a while, but I can see how people would find it irritating.

summer crystal
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it's a little inconsistent

midnight tiger
wintry nest
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I wanna say 5cp might?

summer crystal
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that's been a thing in the sourcemod version too

wintry nest
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CTF technically does too?

summer crystal
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ctf actually syncs with the server timer from what i remember

wintry nest
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Yea which is why I say technically

summer crystal
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wish that applied to other maps

wintry nest
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Nah, I think being ripped out of the game mid round is disruptive and annoying

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I like to play until its done rather than that

summer crystal
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actually no that was still be that except you can actually watch your time

faint vale
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But engineers and snipers and heavies really like when the game slows down to a hold

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Especially engineers because that is the only moment you can make full use of your tools

nimble sage
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The point of sisyphus is it doesnt end

midnight tiger
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But a gamemode is still a mode of a game (a game with an objective, with a "winner" and "losers")

patent gazelle
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Man I wish there was a way to end the round without doing the objective. Oh?! What's this!? A big red button in the menu?! What does it say!? "Disconnect" no like seriously why can't people just Disconnect and find a new server, yeah it's annoying to find a new server but on TF2 just click reque and for TF2 Classic just... find a different one

midnight tiger
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Applies to what you're saying too

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No offense but you're arguing in bad faith

patent gazelle
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yeah my agruments just suck ass

sand walrus
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Sisyphus lasting forever is explicitly what makes it so much fun.

midnight tiger
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Then why not design a gamemode**-less** map centered around endless matches in the first place

Even Deathmatch or Player Destruction would at least work better

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Don't misunderstand me; that's very valid, but I just think that enthusiasm is directed toward the wrong direction (for a lack of better words). I care about consistency tbh

ornate hill
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because TF2 is an objective based game. if the entire point of a game mode was kill people good then the entire balance would be thrown off since some classes and some players are far better at killing than others.

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there needs to be a centralized objective or goal separate from the skill of shooting and killing so the game is balanced. even if the objective is poorly designed intentionally or not

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if there is a cracked out demoman on the enemy team with consistent a 30:2 KD ratio than guess who will win when the only objective is to kill people good

midnight tiger
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You can play a gamemode however you want, but it's also reasonable to play it as intended

indigo zenith
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I think cool if there sudden death?