Have "Official or Verified" server filter enabled by default

[timber granite]

and even cheryl's server is dead

is this a healthy change?

[frigid iris]

Its a system actively in the works

[timber granite]

well it was working b4

y change it

[quartz escarp]

well then it should be reverted

[frigid iris]

It really wasnt

[analog fog]

This.

[quartz escarp]

until a proper system is in place (official/vanilla only in the main menu)

and leave the regular server browser alone..

[frigid iris]

But improvements can be made

[timber granite]

the server browser was working

as players got into verified/official and unverified servers

now the change axed unverified servers player traffic and will overflow verified/official servers

[vital cedar]

This would be more aggressive

[timber granite]

as problems alr starting 2 show up

[quartz escarp]

it was literally this way in tf2 classic

you only had vaultf4 official and only vanilla servers

[analog fog]

Reason I ask this is because it seems like it would be an upgrade to the player experience to turn off anycast and you'd be able to get verified.

[quartz escarp]

now you have it so verified sits at the top on a barely scalable server list, just pushes down the entire unverified hosts down

[vital cedar]

And servers which didnt appear on this menu routinely died

[timber granite]

yeah I checked, EU unverified servers r dead

only non-dead unverified servers r in regions which dont have verified/official servers

[quartz escarp]

so you can agree that your verified pinning at the top kills other unverified servers as well? why not revert it then?

[timber granite]

which is a massive shame

[analog fog]

I mentioned this earlier, yeah. People would look at the title screen and not use the server browser.

[frigid iris]

Yeah unverified servers did not get much/any attention

[frigid iris]

Last I checked, tiny kitty girl pound was active

[analog fog]

Saying this as an admin on Moon's Pub since early-mid 2025 and a server hoster in late 2025.

[timber granite]

thats an exception

then how it comes that multiple unverified EU servers r dead in this hour

like 4 example, its EU peak hour

[quartz escarp]

just revert this catastrophic forced pinning of serevrs update and work on a better system

[frigid iris]

Could be that its working hours in EU land on a weekday

[mellow pollen]

Being a ticket from day 1 doesn't explain why it was pushed without telling server owners. If this was always planned, there was even more time to communicate it. And even with proper notice, the core problem stays the same, the sorting prioritizes moderation policy over gameplay quality.

[timber granite]

we are talking abt EU peak hour

that cant be a case

[quartz escarp]

I guess we were too late lodging our ticket on day 1

because this is absolutely crazy

[analog fog]

I mean I'm looking right now and Wonderland's 2fort server has 39 players. There's a couple of nearly full qtland servers.

[quartz escarp]

my class wars fully died

and my 2fort normally peaks way higher around this time

but it's invisible because of the bloated verified servers at the top

[timber granite]

we are talking abt EU peak hour, and all of my EU servers would be full this time around

im only seeing one

and the Indonesian server is only full since there is no verified/official server host hosting there

[frigid iris]

Could it be that they’re just in the NA server? I know the TF2C playerbase often plays in the wrong regions

Its somewhat of a running joke with some of the longer running hosters

Join an NA server and its all Russian players lol

Not saying thats 100% the case but its worth noting

[timber granite]

can't be the case but the verified/official server forceful pin killed traffic

[timber granite]

also looks like the said change killed traffic towards arctic.tf EU servers aswell

it cant be a timezone issue when its literally EU peak hours

[analog fog]

In the server browser I counted ten full or nearly full servers. Let's 1.5x that number to account for the servers with a tiny amount of people and couple of 32 player servers I didn't bother to account for. So fifteen of twenty four.

There are 1519 players active last I checked on SteamDB. 1519 / 24 = 63

63 - 15 = 48 servers worth of people not on verified.

Obviously this is shitty napkin math, but it seems a vast majority of people are on non-verified servers anyways.

[timber granite]

but a majority of players moved 2 verified/official servers, b4 the said update both servers regardless of them being verified or official would have players and the old system was quite literally working

[ashen fulcrum]

i feel like we might be missing a possible answer, which is that the playerbase is normalizing from the initial rush

also EU servers? its... pretty late their time on a weekend

[timber granite]

its literally EU peak hours

[quartz escarp]

no it's eu peak times

[ashen fulcrum]

thats on me for timezones

[timber granite]

all the change did is forcefully pin verified/official servers into being top which just drowns out traffic towards unverified servers, and is an unhealthy change in general

[frigid iris]

I forget, what country is Helsinki in/

[timber granite]

Finland

[analog fog]

Maybe it's an issue specific to some servers and not all unverified servers?

[timber granite]

all of the unverified servers got punished by the change

[frigid iris]

I mean, it kinda looks like a lot of smaller hosters have actually moved to become verified

[timber granite]

but what about us unverified servers? i cant be verified since im not letting sum dude use exploits 2 make the gameplay unplayable

[analog fog]

Unverified servers seems to be getting healthy traffic right now. Do you have any evidence that all unverified server numbers dropped?

Not just your server or arctic.

[timber granite]

that just nitpicking

[frigid iris]

Of all the populated servers, about 40% are unverified by my count

[analog fog]

That's literally the opposite of nitpicking.

Wait I forgot what nitpicking means.

[timber granite]

arctic.tf one is a major server network so if they dont have a lot of players in EU then it indicates a problem

[frigid iris]

Every time this discussion ocmes up you say this but never elaborate

[analog fog]

Still I think I'm making a fair argument.

[analog fog]

Or maybe people just moved to other servers?

[timber granite]

other verified/official servers yes

forcefully

[frigid iris]

femcel puppy furry pound is doing a great job

[timber granite]

that one is verified i believe

[analog fog]

Unless the ratio of verified to non-verified players changed and there's evidence for it it could just be changing player habits.

[frigid iris]

It is not

[timber granite]

part of the warsaw.tf network

[frigid iris]

It is not

[analog fog]

The femcel server doesn't come up when I filter for verified.

[timber granite]

sure

these server appear first and i relaunched my game

[mellow pollen]

I live in Finland. Helsinki server is 23 ping for me and 18/24 real players right now. It's 21st on my list. Above it: a verified server with 32 bots, a 4fort server with 10 bots, a dodgeball server, and verified servers at 50+ ping. The verified pin is actively sorting me away from my best server.

[frigid iris]

Sort by players

[analog fog]

You are cherrypicking screenshots. Most people are on unverified servers right now, just not on yours.

[frigid iris]

It has 32 bots because its engineer fortress.

[timber granite]

shitload of verified servers being active

[frigid iris]

And also a healthy chunk of active unverified servers.

[quartz escarp]

it's working as intended, the tf2c devs just gave us the middle finger

instead of reverting it and working on a working system they will leave the servers dead in the water

[timber granite]

brazil and RU server is an exception since there is no verified/official server in those regions

but its consistant w verified or official servers

[frigid iris]

Of the 26 servers with player counts of 10 or above, 13 of them are onverified.

Which seems very even to me.

[timber granite]

still is an unhealthy system

after another scroll

[frigid iris]

"This server kills unverified servers and draws everyne to verified servers!"
"but half the servers active are unverified?"
"Shut up"

[analog fog]

If you can't prove that the ratios changed then the screenshots you're sending doesn't matter.

[frigid iris]

Like unmu anyone can open the game and count for themselves

[timber granite]

this change didnt affect regions which doesnt have official/verified servers

which is inconsistent

[frigid iris]

50% of all servers active being unverified servers seems fair to me

[timber granite]

me, luka, and cheryl wouldnt complain if this was the case

[frigid iris]

This is the case. I literally opened the game and counted.

[analog fog]

sakura_reflection gotta be trolling at this point.

[timber granite]

most unverified servers that are active are in RU, South America, Asia. For example in EU/North American servers are mostly full with official/verified servers

[analog fog]

Literally just plugging their ears and going LALALA.

[frigid iris]

There are more unverified EU servers than for any other individual region

[timber granite]

i did check most players play on verified/official servers atleast from EU

did u read my msg or ignore it

[frigid iris]

Actually I think EU is tied with SA for active unverified servers

[timber granite]

no, EU is mostly full w official/verified servers

SA doesnt have official/verified servers so its completely understandable that players mostly play on unverified servers

so does Asia and Russia, they just dont have a verified/official server host hosting there and players will flock to unverified servers (shocking)

[sturdy flower]

ohhh that makes more sense now

[timber granite]

i have also checked and my Helsinki server can be an exception since again, no official/verified server host is hosting in Helsinki, Finland but i can be wrong about that

[frigid iris]

I feel like you're intentionally skipping over words in my sentence? Again, there's as many unverified active servers in the EU as there are elsewhere.

[timber granite]

most unverified servers that are active are in RU, South America, Asia
SA (so does Asia and Russia) doesnt have official/verified servers so its completely understandable that players mostly play on unverified servers

[frigid iris]

Even when accounting for all the verified EU servers

[analog fog]

I counted 36 servers total, 16 verified/official.

[frigid iris]

EU does, and it has as many active unverified servers as any of them if not more

[frigid iris]

I only counted servers with player counts over 10

[analog fog]

So did I.

[timber granite]

my Helsinki server can be an exception since again, no official/verified server host is hosting in Helsinki, Finland

[frigid iris]

Hm, must have changed

[analog fog]

Or maybe I have better connectivity?

I dunno.

[frigid iris]

Literally not even relevant to what I'm saying?

[timber granite]

my bad, Helsinki isnt an EU member

here i am

[frigid iris]

13 unverified servers out of 26 total servers

[ashen fulcrum]

we're getting lost in semantics atp

[frigid iris]

Count is still the same

50% of active servers being unverified is clear enough evidence that the current system is not disenfranchsing to unverified servers

[timber granite]

read my msg on y that is the case.

stop ignoring my arguments on purpose

[analog fog]

This doesn't seem that unusual.

[timber granite]

as ur actively arguing in bad faith @frigid iris

[analog fog]

My sibling in Christ you are desperately trying to cherrypick screenshots

[frigid iris]

I read your message. I do not think it is relevant or a very good counterargument since unverified servers that have to compete with verified servers due to region similarities are just as prevalent, if not moreso, than unverified servers in regions that lack verified servers.

[timber granite]

i gave up arguing w u, i will only reply 2 u if u properly read wat i said

[frigid iris]

Not sure how much more fair you can get than 50/50.

[analog fog]

Here's a few samples of the servers you screenshotted as proof these networks are losing players. I'm sorry but these servers were already dead or experiencing regular player pattenrs.

https://gamemonitoring.net/team-fortress-2-classified/servers?name=arctic.tf

[sturdy flower]

the reason I sparked this whole conversation to begin with is because when I looked at the server browser yesterday, I could barely find anything vanilla to play that was an Arctic server

at noon PST yesterday, I counted servers with between 10-32 players with vanilla rules (so no civilian, bunnyhop or live TF2 weapons, but random crits or even 24/7 map servers were fair game); 21 servers met that criteria, and 12 of them were Arctic

that is a huge jump from the roughly 10-20% of vanilla servers Arctic accounted for at launch, shooting up to 50%. and these weren't exactly unaccounted for regions either, it was mostly major US and EU cities that would've already been more than covered by the plethora of verified and local server hosts https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1469436402809700352/1471236668659990701/image.png?ex=698edc2c&is=698d8aac&hm=cd87bd5d74767642c1640255abb0e5fe477c2f11bd69aa0736c2a0ceb7f79ca8&

[halcyon ridge]

this thread is arguing in circles and going nowhere. this implementation may not be perfect, but it's something we have been discussing since weeks before launch, and can be improved overtime.

i'll clarify some things:
this prioritization only takes affect when the user has no sorting algorithm selected
this prioritization only shows servers with players that are under 70 ping
wonderland playercount barely changed this entire time, and i'm still seeing extremely similar player activity

i was worried about this too, but the end result is very clear that this isn't making much of a difference, and there's no point in beginning to attack each other over this :l

[timber granite]

just revert said change

[sturdy flower]

didnt even bother to read their post before just raging

[analog fog]

To be honest I think there's certain people not engaging in good faith and I'm basically using this as a meditation thing.

[timber granite]

i was never even mad, just upset at a change which i dont appreciate

[analog fog]

I'm basically training my patience at this point LMAO.

[frigid iris]

The change seems to have been beneficial towards smaller unverified hosters and less beneficial to larger unverified hosters, which is interesting.

[halcyon ridge]

which was one of the hopes of doing this

[frigid iris]

With the data in mind, I'm in support of it. I'd me in terested to see how the ratio changes over time.

[timber granite]

im not in favor of this change

[sturdy flower]

wow nooo way

[analog fog]

I think the recent changes are good for experimentation. I'm gonna try to add more servers to gamemonitoring.net so we have more data.

[ashen fulcrum]

at this point we've kinda proven theyre not going to argue in a good faith or logical manner as much as make themselves heard

[analog fog]

By the way shoutouts to people who disagreed with me or anyone but engaged in good faith. I hope you get Doritos with extra dust on it today.

[frigid iris]

mmmmm skin

[mellow pollen]

Interesting that one of the hopes was specifically reducing traffic to larger unverified hosters. That's a different goal than improving player experience.

[analog fog]

I love bait

[halcyon ridge]

that's not even what was said?

nova said it was beneficial to both, with more of an increase in activity to smaller hosts

[mellow pollen]

Nova said the change was less beneficial to larger unverified hosters. You said "which was one of the hopes of doing this." What did you mean if not that?

[frigid iris]

Less beneficial ≠ detrimetal

In fact something being beneficial is the opposite of detrimental

[halcyon ridge]

that we wanted to encourage the growth of new communities

something that improves player experience

[timber granite]

Category, Player Count, Server Count (Active/Total)
Verified, 447, 20 active, 97 total
Official, 117, 6 active, 21 total
Unverified*, 573, 56 active, 164 total

*Unverified servers are higher due to the fact that Verified and Official servers can't cover servers for regions in Dallas, Helsinki, Moscow, London, Singapore, Hong Kong. Players will generally move to unverified servers for this alone and that's why the player count is high for said unverified servers.

Also this recent change was unannounced and no one wanted this, it will also fuck up UX as players have to forcefully scroll to get into their unverified servers if there isn't an official/verified server in their area/region. And also the reason why Verified servers have most players is due to them being in EU (Warsaw, Frankfurt) which forcefully drowns out other non-verified servers in the same region/area.

And also verified/official servers drowns out other non-verified servers in NA aswell as most players are either official and or verified NA servers

• this change let alone could create an unhealthy and unfair environment where server operators would fight for server locations as a server operator can expand their locations at any time

[frigid iris]

Again, I think if that was there case there wouldn't be any unverified servers for EU considering how many active verified servers there are for EU.

[timber granite]

i recommend that you read my message carefully, it will give an answer. stop being ignorant

[frigid iris]

I read your message. It says nothing new and does not address my point.

[timber granite]

then read it again, and slowly process it

the answer is in there

[gritty kiln]

What is this passive-aggressiveness, damn

[frigid iris]

Its really funny because it really doesnt address my point lol

And if server hosters are fighting over “territory” than they’re being childish.

[timber granite]

it literally did address your point, read my messages

[ashen fulcrum]

i feel like we might be exaggerating the effort required to scroll a few times

[timber granite]

there i edited so you can see it clearly now

[halcyon ridge]

server operators aren't fighting over server locations

that's why there's plenty of healthy communities hosted in the central EU

[timber granite]

but they can and would be given an unfair start as their server would show up instead of mine

[halcyon ridge]

you guys have the approach of looking at this like your territory is being encroached on by wolves ._.

[halcyon ridge]

then have a reason for people to stick to your server beyond ping

[gritty kiln]

So, nobody?

[timber granite]

a server operator can expand their regions at any time, and this change alone would be unfair since it would allow them to continuesly be at the top due to their "verified/official" status

[mellow pollen]

I've lost 32% of my players since the patch. Is that less beneficial or detrimental?

[halcyon ridge]

you also host up to 6 servers per region, without seeing specific statistics i'd assume those players are now checking out other verified servers in their region

[ashen fulcrum]

im going to once again ask why we're treating server hosting like youre trying to keep celebrity status

[quartz escarp]

same boat, but in this case 100% for one of my servers at least, I can only try so much on one server

[analog fog]

To elaborate: I find it really relaxing to engage with people who are acting in bad-faith because it really trains my patience. There's a feeling getting out of a conversation that my patience is stronger. If I can handle hours of baiting and trolling and clearly false opinions then I can handle anything in life. It's therapeutic. I don't know why I'm like this but I am.

[quartz escarp]

it's not about "celebrity" status, it's about the unfairness involved in it

[ashen fulcrum]

because we shouldnt be, not to repeat a point but again youre a service hoster not a demagogue

[ashen fulcrum]

True

[timber granite]

your not understanding it right, the point was that verified/official servers are unfair

[analog fog]

You were experiencing regular player population patterns. This is your Class Wars server.

[halcyon ridge]

something like this sounds nice in practice until you wonder how to sort it and manage the UI

[narrow plinth]

i mean i think lack of proper moderation in servers like arctic can also be a big factor on why they get less players over time as people start favouring other more moderated servers

[gritty kiln]

How do you mean?

[halcyon ridge]

well, how do you make this look when sorting by latency?

[timber granite]

arctic.tf had a lot of players and continuesly has a lot of players in non-EU/NA regions

[halcyon ridge]

another thing is opening a provider and getting blasted with 20 servers, some of which you could care less about

[timber granite]

again, arctic servers get full in regions where official/verified servers host dont have a server for the location which arctic.tf hosts to

[quartz escarp]

not anymore?

[halcyon ridge]

but i do love your older suggestion of the ℹ️ for servers

something like that would be great if it had a way to link providers :D

[analog fog]

*are experiencing

https://gamemonitoring.net/team-fortress-2-classified/servers/11108153

[quartz escarp]

?

it's completely dead

lol

[halcyon ridge]

yes, which is how servers work in every game

[analog fog]

That's 24 hours, change it to a week.

You've had multiple dips like this throughout the week.

[timber granite]

right now in TF2C verified/official servers get an unfair advantage and head start

which replaces servers in the same region

[quartz escarp]

The patch was put in yesterday night

?

[halcyon ridge]

no, they don't in the context you said

[mellow pollen]

That's my point. Those players were on my servers yesterday and now they're on verified servers in the same region. They didn't switch because the verified servers offer something better. The sorting moved them. That's the definition of the browser controlling traffic instead of player choice.

[quartz escarp]

The week wont say anything

[timber granite]

that's what i'm saying

[quartz escarp]

I should have 50 players at this time minimum

but now my server is barely visible

[analog fog]

The data is as recent as the past hour.

[timber granite]

no, 24 hours would be correct

as there sum change happened there

[quartz escarp]

look at the chart again

[halcyon ridge]

how do you know they didn't switch because they wanted to try something new they didn't know was around?

[quartz escarp]

yesterday at this time I had 50 players minimum

Now I have 0

Why? because verified servers are pinned

and I'm not the only one

[timber granite]

wym new, its the same experience w more strict moderation and policing

[halcyon ridge]

i mentioned earlier this is going in circles and i can see this is still the case

[timber granite]

i have also lost players due to this patch

[gritty kiln]

I can't speak for anybody else, but my server only gets populated under the following circumstances:

• Custom Weapons tag (lol)
• The de-facto available server because it's full(-ish) everywhere else

[analog fog]

You've had your server drop similarly in inconsistent spots throughout the week around the similar time give or take a few hours.

[halcyon ridge]

like i said earlier, we'll be monitoring statistics and looking into ways to improve this system to be as fair as it can be

[timber granite]

tf

don't push a change if you don't know effective or stable will it be

[mellow pollen]

If they didn't know those servers were around until the sorting showed them first, that's exactly what I'm saying. The sorting controlled where they went, not their own choice.

[quartz escarp]

currently it's super duper unfair

[timber granite]

and be more transparent if you do changes like this

[quartz escarp]

it should be reverted completely

this is absolutely insane

releasing broken patches

0 testing 0 thoughts

[analog fog]

As a beta tester this is not the case.

[ashen fulcrum]

you're acting as if your next paycheck is how well you can play to the crowd and SEO, not that you happen to be hosting a service on... tf2c of all things and happen to not want to get verified

[halcyon ridge]

it was not my change, but it's not a broken patch and was well discussed.

[quartz escarp]

literally one of the devs didn't even know that there was an update like this

and one of the devs disagreed with this change as well

like what's going on?

do people just push patches when they want it

[timber granite]

was there any mentions of this in #tf2c-announcements and or in any of the release change logs?

[quartz escarp]

where's the community aspect for such a change lol

[timber granite]

was the community asked if they want this change or not

[halcyon ridge]

no, and that wasn't my choice

it would have been if it was

[timber granite]

then the first problem starts there

[ashen fulcrum]

this is just kinda an intrinsically absurd situation

[gritty kiln]

Regardless of how heated(?) this conversation may be, I'm also concerned by the lack of communication

[halcyon ridge]

yes, as we're in a suggestions thread that's weeks old about exactly this

[timber granite]

look at the ratio

33:32 what makes you think people want this?

[halcyon ridge]

this suggestions thread was about a much harsher implementation beyond what was actually put in :l

[gritty kiln]

Suggestions should only serve as references

[halcyon ridge]

if 33 people want that, i imagine the ratio would be much more in favor of this lesser implementation

[timber granite]

for me it looks like "fuck you for even attempting to host an unverified server, and fuck your Warsaw server let verified/official servers take it"

[gritty kiln]

This shouldn't be a democracy, but common sense

[halcyon ridge]

we've discussed this internally for weeks beforehand, we always wanted some form of weighting

[gritty kiln]

As a Project Manager myself, I wouldn't say so either

[halcyon ridge]

even among server hosts

[gritty kiln]

It's understandable to believe in your decisions, albeit how biased you may be

But the team can bounce back

[timber granite]

that didnt include me, and many other unverified server hosts

[gritty kiln]

This isn't "over"

[timber granite]

the majority you asked are verified and or official server hosts

they would want this but we dont

[sturdy flower]

it seems more like an ego thing than genuine concern for community building

[timber granite]

none of you still getting the point

[quartz escarp]

these guys are the ones initially voting for this change u cant change their mind

they parroted this since day 1

[timber granite]

i will be very clear: There is a verified server in Frankfurt and I'm a unverified server in Frankfurt, and now this new change makes it so the verified server in Frankfurt would be getting constant player while my unverified server in Frankfurt won't see that traffic anymore

i have also tried and no player traffic from my Germany servers ever since the update dropped

[analog fog]

For real for real no cap.

[celest bluff]

That can only be assumed. Maybe a discussion forum for proposed changes that are specific to the change rather than the ballpark is in order. At least on the topic of server browsing.

[timber granite]

32 people don't want this

only 1 people difference

[halcyon ridge]

32 people don't want forcing verified servers to be the only servers shown

including me

that's not what was implemented

[analog fog]

What was implemented is entirely different than what people voted for.

[gritty kiln]

That shouldn't be a reason to dismiss a suggestion

However

[gritty kiln]

It should still be taken as a reference

[timber granite]

wrong screenshot

[gritty kiln]

And there should be an attempt in taking the best of every world

[halcyon ridge]

which it very much is

[timber granite]

then what was implemented?

[analog fog]

I love bait

[timber granite]

i restarted my game for this

[analog fog]

Feed me more bait

[quartz escarp]

this is literally what my server browser looks like

[timber granite]

this is what should show up for everyone

[analog fog]

Yummy fishes and worms

[frigid iris]

This thread shoud've been locked like a day ago

[analog fog]

So true

[sturdy flower]

and the amount of likes on this post doubled by 16 since 3 days ago as opposed to just the 8 additional dislikes specifically because people would rather even this radical measure go into effect as opposed to seeing the verified servers essentially get suffocated

[mellow pollen]

Jester, you said this was discussed internally with server hosts for weeks. The Steam store page says the plan was to work with server hosters to create a menu that is fair to all. Which server hosters were consulted? Because the unverified ones in this thread clearly weren't, and the same page says unverified servers will continue to appear in the server browser as normal.

[analog fog]

This was about the vanilla tagging thing from what I remember.

Because servers with Civilian enabled would get buried.

Stuff like that.

[halcyon ridge]

the server hosters that were consulted were ones that had built communities during the sourcemod era

all 3 of you are completely new to this community

[timber granite]

so we don't exist to you

[quartz escarp]

💯 this

[analog fog]

What's y'all's favourite bait? I love eating those weird fuzzy things and getting a hook stuck in my cheek.

[halcyon ridge]

thank you for repeatedly putting words in my mouth, it really shows that you don't care about this discussion

[still garnet]

the heavy amount of criticism has reactionary throwaway lines which paints a picture of rampant antagonism towards the devs choices, this frame makes it difficult to listen and create a discussion, as webb hypothesized, a sort of soft culture war

[frigid iris]

Evidently a 50/50 split between verified and unverified = removing unverified servers. I think that a system which encourages community building is beneficial to the game and its community as a whole. There are plenty of new, unverified servers hosters that are building healthy communities.

[still garnet]

This thread should be locked

[gritty kiln]

I would like to become a part of those conversations in the future

[timber granite]

my server network is existing since 2023 so how can i be new to you

[gritty kiln]

I care a lot about having nice things and that's the very thing I base my projects upon

[sturdy flower]

yeah, you're not gonna get invited to the betacord when you got banned from even the Gold Rush discord for bringing up nazis and pedophiles in relation to free speech a concerningly large number of times in public chat

like what do you expect lol

[still garnet]

anonymity is a two way street

[quartz escarp]

it's awesome that the guys voting for this change can't seem to have a civil discussion over it

[halcyon ridge]

you should be, we'll likely be asking for server host feedback on a few things soon while we work on the server hosting experience

[timber granite]

☝️

[analog fog]

🍿

Put this thread out of its misery.

[still garnet]

For someone new, You are a fantastic example of how this discussion should be approached

[frigid iris]

If none of your servers are getting player safter this change, but plenty of smaller unverified servers are, than maybe people just want to play on servers where there is a community they can be a part of. I know that that's one thing people have repeatedly praised the game for in the past.

[frigid iris]

This is the way to go about things.

You'll go far.

[timber granite]

this is how the server browser looks by default, tell me why would a player join an unverified server if these are the first results

[analog fog]

Heapons' the only sane person here.

I respect him.

[timber granite]

you can't have a civil conversation

[frigid iris]

Evidently they are, half the active servers are unverified. The region that "competes" with verified servers the most, which is Europe, even has the most unverified servers active.

[analog fog]

As much as I love those fuzzy things I won't lie getting a few worms really hits the spot sometimes.

[timber granite]

again,

There is a verified server in Frankfurt and I'm a unverified server in Frankfurt, and now this new change makes it so the verified server in Frankfurt would be getting constant player while my unverified server in Frankfurt won't see that traffic anymore

[analog fog]

this thread right now

[frigid iris]

I think what a lot of players want out of TF2C is a strong community that they feel they can be a part of. I think that this current system emphasizes that, and that that is reflected in how well smaller unverified hosters are succeeding where larger unverified hosters are not.

[timber granite]

Verified and Official servers can't cover servers for regions in Dallas, Helsinki, Moscow, London, Singapore, Hong Kong. Players will generally move to unverified servers for this alone and that's why the player count is high for said unverified servers.

Verified servers have most players is due to them being in EU (Warsaw, Frankfurt) which forcefully drowns out other non-verified servers in the same region/area

[quartz escarp]

this pretty much sums it up

I completely forgot about that announcement

amazing

[ashen fulcrum]

imo trying to find grand treason in a decision on how to order servers is quite frankly, hilarious

[timber granite]

it's also not normal that my Helsinki server gets constant traffic but my servers in Germany, other parts of EU dont

[sturdy flower]

if this change gets players to see moderated communities they genuinely enjoy over the unmoderated faceless servers that mostly got played just because it was the path of least resistance for a full server, I consider that truly beneficial for the community at large

[analog fog]

Do you know what the definition of insanity is?

[timber granite]

especially my Warsaw servers

[mellow pollen]

The store page says the goal is to boost a wider variety of communities. You consulted only established ones and are now telling new hosters they don't count because they're new. How does that boost a wider variety of communities?

[analog fog]

Wake up. Eat shrimp and worms. Go to sleep. Over and over again. I'm going CRAAAAYZAYYY.

[celest bluff]

webb stop ragebaiting or whatever it is your doing. its just disrupting the discussion

[still garnet]

nah I see the discussion as pretty clear on verdict, It's also hard to butt in as someone new when the emotional aspect has become too turbulent to respect

[quartz escarp]

literally he's derailing this thread lol

[analog fog]

This is not a discussion. This is a corpse. Being killed and reanimated over and over again. Never changing. Never learning. Never growing.

[kindred mantle]

imo this thread should be locked

[timber granite]

Can you stop being uncivil and continuesly derail the conversation

[analog fog]

rare agree

[ashen fulcrum]

the discussion is barely there anyways, its three weirdos who are trying to find every edge they can and every little way of phrasing that they can pull on so they can argue that trying to compete for petty ego is valid

[analog fog]

Shrimp. Yummy.

[timber granite]

we are talking about verified and official servers and they appear first so the thread should be kept up

[kindred mantle]

@halcyon ridge my only wish would be to communicate such things better in the future

[celest bluff]

if you dont want to keep reading or participating just mute the channel, you dont need to add noise

[halcyon ridge]

again, i would really appreciate if you would stop putting words in my mouth. you are very obviously trying to act in bad faith, as i stated that the reason why you weren't consulted, is because you weren't here when we were consulting hosts.

please refrain from pinging me further like this.

[ashen fulcrum]

oh yeah i forgot, theyre also arguing in bad faith seemingly for the sake of it

[halcyon ridge]

this will hopefully be something we can work on, i'm very much in support in as much transparency as possible :)

[timber granite]

But how you wrote is: your too new and your opinion will not count

[analog fog]

Chums are kinda shit. Not very delicious. I prefer a worm or a shrimp.

[halcyon ridge]

that's not "how i wrote". i was responding to a question about why you weren't consulted before development had finished. no one had any idea you'd be hosting servers

[mellow pollen]

For the record, I quoted the Steam store page directly. And "you weren't here yet" doesn't change a public commitment to be fair to all server hosters, including future ones.

[halcyon ridge]

again, i'm out of this conversation, please do not try to put words in my mouth again

[frigid iris]

<@&715608448913506395> this is an unusual ping but can one of y'all please lock this thread? This whole thing is devolving into toxicity and bad faith arguments.

[analog fog]

and shrimp

[timber granite]

One person is continuesly derailing the thread and there was no toxic and or bad faith arguments so far

[frigid iris]

I'm not even going to engage with that.

[timber granite]

It would be great if moderators take action against @analog fog

[quartz escarp]

surprisingly the OP is derailing the thread after getting his way

[timber granite]

so we can have a civil conversation

[timber granite]

yeah this is annoying, along with Nova continuedly ignoring what I say and pointing out anything else but what I'm saying

[still garnet]

Good time as any to pull out my full arsenal of thoughts since I won't have a chance soon enough; You can tell who prides arguments as a form of winner/loser instead of verdict, compromise or new conclusions to points

There is no new points left to iterate, mainly trying to pick apart every small detail for a sense of success, not a sense of emphasizing your ideas

doesn't help that two of the loudest members opposing verified are very antagonistic

success isn't winning, it's being clear

[analog fog]

For me I'm just happy I have a thread where others share my love of lures.

[ashen fulcrum]

i am just going to reiterate that server hosting is not an ego measuring competition, and then enjoy the rest of the show

[still garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/fish-gas-station-you-know-what-that-means-gif-1113666392679473186

[frigid iris]

I'm going to derail the conversation with a cute snake yawning

[analog fog]

Do it

[frigid iris]

https://tenor.com/view/snakes-yawning-i-want-to-sleep-gif-6939244601539298754

[analog fog]

So true

[timber granite]

My problems with the change/thread are:

1. We unverified server hosts were not asked for this change and no poll made in #tf2c-announcements and anywhere else.
2. We haven't been properly notified about this change.
3. I will be honest, the people voted in favor is due to their Verified/Official servers not getting the players and is now ego tripping.
4. We can't have civil conversation as Nova and or webb continuesly derail the conversation and refuse to address any points made against which will be in a continuesly loop up until one of the person gives up arguing

[ashen fulcrum]

point 4 presumes as if there wasnt a whole day or so of civil conversation that you argued in bad faith over anyways ✨

[timber granite]

What point of my argument was made in bad faith?

[analog fog]

yummy crayfish in my tummy

With a side of bloodworms.

[ashen fulcrum]

like, a lot of it. you could just scroll up and reread your own points if you wish for an example

[frigid iris]

I have replied to arguments with the facts that half the servers active are unverified and that the region with the most unverified server is one with a lot of verified servers. I do not understand what part of that is in bad faith, nor do I care to.

[timber granite]

Those said points are valid and none of was made in bad faith, and you can also fact check it yourself

[ashen fulcrum]

im not performing free labor to prove your points

[timber granite]

The problem starts here.

[frigid iris]

I'm done here, I hope this thread gets locked, and I would prefer it if nobody pinged me about this again.

[timber granite]

Then how sure you are that i'm arguing in "bad faith"

[timber granite]

Then you continuesly ignored my argument on why unverified server get players in specific regions

and I have provided clear examples of this yet you ignored them

[frigid iris]

I addressed it multiple times. Stop fucking pinging me.

[ashen fulcrum]

you're here merely to exhaust everyone so you can win, not to have a discussion

or youre just. That seperated from reality that this is a discussion

[timber granite]

im not performing free labor to prove your points
This is a problematic statement, and how can I be sure that you actually gave time to read what I have said and made up a conclusion?

None of my statements were made in malicious intent and or in bad faith and you can check it yourself if you don't believe me

[ashen fulcrum]

are you trying to miss the point deliberately or are you arguing for no reason?

[timber granite]

Do you?

[analog fog]

https://youtu.be/wmVkJvieaOA