What spy items are the most classic?

[dawn umbra]

Which item should be added into the game? It doesn’t have to be a direct replica from live tf2. Just want to know which items are fundamentally good. React to the post with the letter that goes with the item (idc if you vote multiple go ahead)
Knives:
• (Y) Your Eternal Reward
• (B) Big Earner (my vote goes to this)
• (K) Kuni (imo this shouldn’t be added)
• (i) Icicle
Watches:
• (D) Dead ringer (imo this shouldn’t be added)
• (C) Cloak and dagger (my vote goes to this)
Revolvers:
• (L) L’etraunger (my vote goes to this)
• (A) Ambassador
• (E) Enforcer
• (T) The Diamondback (imo this shouldn’t be added)
Sappers:
• (R) Red Tape Recorder

What spy items are the most classic?

[cosmic zephyr]

Red Tape.

[hot crown]

There was already a survey about this kind of thing..

[dawn umbra]

when and where?

what were the results?

[dawn umbra]

what if the RTR got a health buff so engies remove them in 3 hits?

[hot crown]

It was in #tf2c-announcements and it had a huge list of weapons and people rated them on how Classic they were

The results are still not public

[dawn umbra]

why are the results still hidden?

[hot crown]

Ping nito

Maybe he'll give some insight

[dawn umbra]

could you ping nito? Idk if I’ll get muted or banned for pinging server hosters/moderators/developers

[hot crown]

Neither

They're cool chill guys

Sure I can if you like

@orchid laurel are you ever planning to release the results to the Classic surveys?

(it might take a bit for them to reply, they're all busy after all)

[orchid laurel]

Id rather not publicize them as discourse would likely shift from "i think this fits because of x, y, and z" to "this fits because it scored a 4.5".

[hot crown]

That makes a lot of sense

So you learn less from reading those discussions

@dawn umbra there's your answer

[dawn umbra]

thanks guys :]

[cosmic zephyr]

Great, so all our Emails just got fed into the Adware. I knew it was a scam.

[orchid laurel]

using it to sell you classic items and accessories

[cosmic zephyr]

WELL WHERE ARE THEY NITO? Come on people, I’m not waiting 4 years for the merch drop just to get Ads of Scout’s mom popping up.

[pliant osprey]

New weapon: the YbkidclaetR
"Absolutely classic"

[violet ocean]

"You see guys we need to add rocket jumper because it scored a 5!!!!!!!!"

[tulip pike]

Spycicle idea: A bucket of water. A replacement for sapper that can disable buildings and extinguish yourself but has 10 second cooldown.

[valid ivy]

The only Spy weapons that would fit into TF2C are the RTR and YER. Everything else is too similar to stock (with the exception of the Dead Ringer and Cloak and Dagger, but they're both terribly designed).

[tulip pike]

The letranger's cloak on hit is a cool mechanic. It's just that nobody uses it.

[cosmic zephyr]

Not on my watch it didn’t.

[cosmic zephyr]

I think the Big earner has merits, it’s not a knife I’d use, but it’s got more ground to stand on than the other two knives.

[cosmic zephyr]

Still, it would be nice to see what everyone said about each weapon, but shouldn’t be a final result, more so to get rid of the bottom scoring Stinkers… though it should have came with an answer box to get more intel as to why.

[raven jungle]

why's Ambassador so low

[cosmic zephyr]

Because it only has style while its mechanic is just 1 headshot and 40 downsides.

If we just ported the models, I’d put the Amby higher.

[vale ivy]

My list of spy weapons that should be added:
YER
Cloak And Dagger (burn in hell Dead Ringer)
(No gun cuz I prefer stock in most cases)
Red Tape Recorder (its not horrible, you just dunno how useful it is >: ( )

[valid ivy]

the red tape is actually a really good distraction tool because of how long it takes to destroy buildings. Put it on a dispenser, hide in a corner and backstab the engie when he comes to remove it

[vale ivy]

and what would your team rather deal with? level 2 sentry? or level 3?

and (as an engie main) an excuse to use more metal is a nail in the coffin when someone comes around.. cause now my 200 metal reserved for healing my sentry went to UPGRADING my sentry

[valid ivy]

the red tape does also techically disable the sentry for longer if it starts going back into toolbox from level 1

[hot crown]

tbh the sapper's main job is disabling the sentry while the rest of the team kill it

so red tape is fine actually

[valid ivy]

people definitely overhate the rtr

[vale ivy]

Sapper: damage, now can be removed easier but if removed the Engie just needs to wack it a few times and its good
Red Tape: downgrade, allows scouts to stand a chance in a way, and if removed effects the Engie in now more metal must be sacrificed, but no damage delt to sentry and takes longer to kill a sentry.
Both: ITS SAPPED!! PUSH NOW!!!

[tulip pike]

Red Tape Recorder is probably the most 'live' spy weapon since the spy does the exact same thing in the exact same situations.

If we allow the red tape recorder, we must also allow the southern hospitality

[vale ivy]

I argue no, because the Red Tape Recorder is really the only other sapper kind that can be balanced... and the Southern Hospitality is just unoriginal and bad, its just a bleed weapon, nothing else.

[elfin crown]

8 seconds of bleed damage

BUFFED

[cosmic zephyr]

The only way I’d want the Red Tape Back is if it was rework to just be a throwable sapper, effecting all buildings in a radius.

[vale ivy]

still just a bleed weapon

[astral horizon]

Did not expect the big earner to be considered classic

Its balanced and fun, but classic? Idk

No ambi too which is shocking

It used to be the go to for alot of spies back when it wasn't just a worse diamondback

[raven jungle]

the Ambassador is older than many players

[astral horizon]

Yeah exactly

And it's the only other spy unlock other than the stranger that many players consider 'fair' or not useless in spy's current primary alot

[hot crown]

It's "Classic" in all metrics but chronology

Well I'm middling on aesthetics

But in terms of what tf2c should take inspiration from, it fits

Amby does too

[astral horizon]

Definitely do think the big earner is really just 'what if we made a more balanced kunai' from valve

[hot crown]

Crazy that the two were added a couple of months apart

[valid ivy]

now that i think about it, the kunai, big earner and YER all seem to encourage chain stabbing in some way

[astral horizon]

oh really? It feels longer

[raven jungle]

it wasn't relevant until a rework much later

[astral horizon]

Ah

Really happy that the le'stranger and Cloak and dagger are the runnee ups. Those are the few solid picks on spy that doesn't feel annoyingly unfair for the enemy

And since we already have a dead ringer in the form of the camppete, a cloak and dagger like would give us the full suite of cloak options

Fast and gurrella like, medium, or slow and methodical

[valid ivy]

the main issue with the c&d is that many spies just sit in one corner for half the match, and it's nearly impossible to find them

[hot crown]

yes it had no speed boost so was pretty useless

very much a small earner

[astral horizon]

I forget this thing has cloak on kill

[pliant osprey]

I always felt like the Hunting Rifle was already TF2C's spiritual successor to the Ambassador.

[valid ivy]

the amby is cool, but it's very annoying to fight if the spy can aim well

[cosmic zephyr]

It’s a simple and basic weapon, a kin to smth like the backburner. A concept easy to Grasp and distinct enough from stock while not being totally Busted (COUGH COUGH, Kunai!)

[cosmic zephyr]

The Amby is like Cool in terms of design. Stat wise, it’s a pain in the ass to let the spy just Dome you whenever he feels like it. It just took them longer to figure out the Diamond back does this 8x better.

[pliant osprey]

I thought simple and basic was like the exact thing that TF2C sought to avoid though to reduce weapon bloat.

[astral horizon]

I never really thought of the speed boost on kill as a super distinctive stat. Especially compared to headshots on the ambi

Its definitely a fun stat to have on spy though, so I wouldn't be upset if that idea wormed it's way into a tf2c weapon

[astral horizon]

I think this is just a meme. I've only seen very new spies do this.

I think the only times I've ever done it is if I wanted to check out weird trade server maps but don't want to fight

[pliant osprey]

One of my favorite ongoing things about the C&D is that all anecdotal evidence comes with the lingering feeling that maybe you just didn't find the Spy.

[tulip pike]

Cloak and Dagger Idea: drains 2hp a second instead of cloak meter. Can't pick up health kits while cloaked.

[pliant osprey]

I really like knowing in Classic that if I heard a Spy cloak I just have to wait a while and eventually they'll decloak. That little bit consistency feels nice to me on the same level people about the Dead Ringer.

[pliant osprey]

Spy corpses randomly appearing in the corners of rooms lmao

[tulip pike]

I think health drain is a good way to convince spies not to spend forever invisable and has the interesting mechanic of being less useful when injured

[pliant osprey]

I think the niche of having to pull from your already limited health for marginally more cloak is a little too great of a trade off vs the consistency of the tool that the Invis watch is but maybe not everyone would feel the same.

[tulip pike]

60 seconds of cloak is massive

[pliant osprey]

Yeah but how long are you realistically going to wait? I genuinely don't know how much health players would sacrifice in practice, but I would be suprised if they used their entire healthbar.

Would be a great interaction with leeching health off of an Engineer's dispenser though.

Might be worth making a weapon thread for this tbh. I'd argue about it in there.

[tulip pike]

ill do that

[cosmic zephyr]

i think they just want to avoid stat swaps, like the Black box being just Blue text, Red text.

[pliant osprey]

Maybe it's just because I've been around it for so long now but I treat the Big Earner like a Blue text, Red text weapon.

Bottom text
Top text
YER gang

[cosmic zephyr]

the health penalty really divides it from being just that, you move fast, kill fast and die fast

[pliant osprey]

Yeah but we've got the L'escampette for that now.

[cobalt crypt]

Under no circumstances should Ambassador, Kunai and Dead Ringer be added

[cosmic zephyr]

i think 2 of them are already black listed

and the bigger fish would have been the diamondback

[pliant osprey]

I feel like it's just universally accepted by this point that the Diamondback's on a completely different level of busted.

[normal nimbus]

Personally I don't think l'etranger fits classic

[cosmic zephyr]

it's part of the "retro" future set, so it didn't even have a beating chance to get in.

[pliant osprey]

It's part of a Deus Ex crossover.

[cosmic zephyr]

same boat as the gorbort collection

too "Future" to be added

[pliant osprey]

Oh no for sure, for sure. I don't think any weapon at this point would be added to Classic though without a fresh coat of paint. Ubersprtize treatment I think is the standard going forward minimum.

[cosmic zephyr]

ironic you say that one, because that's the one i despise the most that came back.

[pliant osprey]

Oh I didn't say I liked it but it got a new model at least. (Even if it was from the workshop)

[normal nimbus]

such a cool model, wasted on the ubersaw

[pliant osprey]

Tell that to the Mine Layer....

[dawn umbra]

I honestly love what knockout weapons did with the cloak n dagger. 30 seconds of cloak, but getting hit while cloaked removes 50% of your cloak meter. It’s just like the live version: easier to get into the backlines (by waiting for an opening, or dodging crossfire, or taking a flank route), but harder to escape enemies. But the main difference is that you don’t get infinite cloak. (Also there is the +100% cloak regen rate but the other stats are more important for what I’m talking about.)
What do you guys think of it?

[leaden brook]

nothing more classic than dr enforcicle and the amby

i would like to see the tf2c team do their own take on the feign death mechanic

[dawn umbra]

you should use the letter so the vote for it can go higher…