The cut backpack secondary for Scout

[true thunder]

Since TF2C has cut weapons, I thought it would be a cool idea to add this secondary to the game. Its sharing function works similarly to the Sandvich, but with an added ability to switch supply types by pressing the reload button, like the Vaccinator. This weapon provides sustain for Scout, reducing his need to take medkits and ammo from his teammates. Instead, he can play a more supportive role, sharing ammo packs with engineers or giving med kits to burning teammates. I thought of giving it negative downsides like no double jumping or -10% movement speed on wearer but i think trading your secondary weapon is already too much. I would like to know how you people would balance it or if you think it's already balanced and doesn't need any changes.
Here's the TF2 wiki article about this cut weapon where i got inspiration from https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Backpack_(weapon)

Also the cooldown for supply recharge is 30 seconds, and the supply you've dropped will despawn after 30 seconds as well exactly like the sandwich. I've also thought of making ammo packs/health kits reduce the cooldown whenever you pick them up but i'm not sure if it's a good idea.

[fresh pulsar]

The backpack and the catcher's mit have always been interesting to me, though in practice I don't think it'd be nearly as fun or valuable to actually do in-game.

Especially to warrant replacing a secondary.

[true thunder]

Well I did consider making it way more beneficial than the version I presented, but you gotta be really careful with designing tf2 weapons because one wrong stat can make it extremely annoying to deal with

I thought of adding a +25 max health bonus and instead of having on demand health/ammo you had to actually pick up ammo or health packs and store them but I think it would be too janky

Scouts could be even more annoying this way because they could steal ammo and med kits at full health and ammo

I just think it would be neat to have a scout that follows you during setup as an engineer and helps you set up stuff by providing metal

[true thunder]

Also it would be super annoying to fight a scout that can deploy a large medkit mid battle and heal himself up to full hp

Basically works like the old sandwich, you can throw it and eat it immediately

If it's just a small medkit I think it's pretty balanced

[fresh pulsar]

the backpack probably evolved into the mad milk

simular niche, but flexible

[true thunder]

Probably. But for some reason I doubt that the devs will add mad milk, I'd love to see how this idea would work in practice at least. Unfortunately custom weapon servers only add slop that turns scout into heavy and shit like that

I wish I knew how to work with vscript or whatever is used for that

[lyric kite]

Cool concept, but I think the health regen is too much and nullifies a lot of the risk of playing scout. It's too much passive sustain. I propose:

-Same primary ammo boost to compensate a bit for the loss of his secondary.
-Alt-fire remains the same.
-Primary fire applies the small medpack/medium ammo pack to himself. 26 health every 30 seconds is enough to enable some clutch plays, but not enough that it's impossible to burst him down. Considering scout's low HP, it'll probably be better to use it on a teammate, but you still have the option to use it yourself.
-Same 30 second recharge CD.
-Can be recharged by picking up a health pack/ammo pack of equal or bigger size if you're already at full HP/ammo.

Can have a mailman/delivery motif so it's not just a backpack.

[true thunder]

i present to you this based off of your ideas

i kept sustain but instead of passive regen and more ammo it now encourages you to actually use medkits and ammo from your own pack

you can be more selfish with it but also still be a good sport and help your team out

and being more selfish with your supplies would encourage not stealing medkits and ammo that spawn naturally on the map

here's a slightly tuned version

i think the cooldown could be reduced to 20 seconds to recharge just like the mad milk, also decreasing cooldown by picking up stuff could lead to some really selfish plays or accidentally picking up stuff like large ammo packs or large health kits which would downgrade them to medium and small which is stupid as hell

also i think scout shouldn't be able to regain health or ammo instantly by pressing m1, it would be a lil annoying. Dropping the goodies would discourage the scout from healing midbattle because the enemy could kill you before you get to the stuff you drop and use it themselves. Maybe i should make alt-fire switch supply types instead of the reload key? Would like to hear people's thoughts on that

Also maybe I nerfed the extra health from packs a bit too much. Extra +25% is extra 8 hp for a small medkit which restores 30 normally but that 8 hp barely makes a difference. +50% extra health is 45 hp from a small health pack which makes this a good trade off for losing your secondary

[lyric kite]

Wow, that's some quality art. Impressive if you made it yourself.

What if we kept it simple and removed the +health on wearer line, and replaced the small health kit with a medium one? Do you think 50% health packs for team mates every 30 seconds is too strong? 20% from small ones feels too weak. Maybe it can be fixed at 35%.

For flavor, the scout could leave a trail of letters as he runs. It'd need to disappear fast enough so it doesn't become a disadvantage by giving location info to the other team.

[true thunder]

That's actually a cosmetic from tf2

I just took its icon heh

[true thunder]

I think heavy's sandwich already fills medium sharable health kit role

Medium health kit is just a bit too strong I think

A small health kit every 20 seconds that restores 45 hp if you use it yourself is pretty good for sustain, heavy is a rare case where throwing health at your teammates isn't so crazy op because he's slow as hell

Sandwich and the medic already fill that niche of rapid healing, scout's small health pack is for saving burning medics and such or for self sustain

The main gimmick is sharing ammo with engineers to make your defences stronger

I've also considered other designs for this secondary, like making it a deployable that when thrown acts like a lvl 1 dispenser for 12 seconds or so

Basically a device that provides aoe healing and ammo for a limited amount of time

Like the rejuvenator shield generator thingy but it's just a dispenser instead

With lower velocity too

So you can't throw it across the map

[true thunder]

Give this thing like a 40 second cooldown and I still think it shouldn't reduce the cooldown by picking up ammo boxes because it would lead to even more supply stealing

[lyric kite]

That looks like fun. Honestly, I think simple is best. If we start adding too many lines and too many conditional effects you enter moba territory and the game becomes bloated

[true thunder]

True. In that case we could go nuclear and make the ammo pack a large pack and the health kit could be medium like you suggested, but without any extra stats like more health or ammo for scout

The cooldown should be 25 seconds I think

[true thunder]

Here's the simple version

This makes it even more useful for helping out engineers and I guess you sort of get crazy sustain with it? But the cooldown of 25 seconds should probably make it balanced

Also I've made the reload key thing a positive attribute to stay consistent with tf2 s weird attributes

The vaccinator has resist switch as a positive attribute instead of a neutral one

I guess it also looks kinda nicer this way

Okay but what if

I should probably be submitting these as separate weapons lol but I don't want to clutter up weapon ideas channel

[lyric kite]

Looks good 👍 . The concept is good so even if the numbers aren't balanced that can be tested for

[lyric kite]

That looks extremely annoying 😂 , but would make for a good weapon in some sort of mode/event.

[short turtle]

I like the idea because it’s explicitly taking a cut idea which is TF2C’s bread and butter, the stats here would be fine but I personally wouldn’t give up a brick or pistol for it

How about instead of the health regen or supply drops, instead Scouts can pick up a certain number of items like ammo, health, etc

So you switch to your secondary and click on pick ups you want to carry

Then alt fire with it equipped to drop it to whomever you like

[true thunder]

Oh yeah that's exactly how I would like it to function but I think it's kinda hard to make it work without being super gimmicky and sort of unintuitive

You could press m1 and walk over supplies to store them I suppose and share with alt fire but I think it's a bit too complex and map reliant?

[short turtle]

I mean

So?

The tranq is extremely gimmicky, not super intuitive and pretty much only exists cause it’s in trailer 2

This honestly sounds like it’d provide more than that does as far as support

Bringing a large health pack to your medic on demand with scout speed honestly sounds a bit too strong

[normal bobcat]

I think the healthpack should be a soda so if the scout wants to heal himself he has to go through the bonk/Crit a cola drinking animation

[short turtle]

I don’t think it should self heal at all tbh

Scout doesn’t really need it

[normal bobcat]

yeah but what if the scout drops a healthpack and then just picks it up himself

[short turtle]

Might want to arbitrarily make that impossible

Like how the sandvich works

[true thunder]

What if the scout dropped a special kind of drop that looks visually distinct from normal pick ups

[short turtle]

Could work

[fresh pulsar]

give scout the sandvich

[true thunder]

That would be lore accurate

Scout is definitely the one who touched Sasha and he definitely steals Heavy's sandwiches

That bastard

[true thunder]

It could maybe even work as both a medkit and an ammo pack to make the design of this weapon more streamlined

No more switching supplies gimmick

In regular TF2 killing a heavy with a sandwich makes you heal when you pick up his ammo pack

I think it even heals you more as a scout as a nod to meet the scout video

So that's definitely possible