Spy primary concept

[fluid socket]

how is a clip size of 8 worse than a clip size of 6

[mellow nacelle]

i think it's because it's supposed to be an smg?

[frosty wedge]

Compared to smg

[fluid socket]

oh ok then

[last fern]

engineer levels of reserve ammo is insane

[frosty wedge]

I think this would work better being two handed but you cant use watch while this is active

[lavish cargo]

... why? just, why?

[frosty wedge]

Gun spy

[manic crater]

That is not a spy weapon

[strange coral]

Counterpoint, its for spy

The uh

weakest class in the game

and he sorta always needed an automatic primary

[strange coral]

Its a handheld concealable smg, fits spy pretty well I'd say

[manic crater]

not his gameplay

it's like giving medic a ak47

[strange coral]

(Which would be cool sorta) But this is like

A good weapon, it does fit spy in a way

it kills enemies quickly

and if you land all your hits

it does a full

80 damage

not at max rampup btw

[manic crater]

he's not made to gun people down

[strange coral]

its basically for a sorta gunspy

[manic crater]

it's closer to smg sniper

[strange coral]

Demoman is supposed to be weak at melee range

but we got the entire demoknight thing

[manic crater]

which was a mistake

[strange coral]

Now thats a horrible take from you

Demoknight is fun, really fun even

As a medic main, I don't even mind dealing with them! They are basically free ubersaw hits

[manic crater]

tf2 wasn't made to accomodate a 200 hp thing that charges at people

[strange coral]

tf2 wasn't made for battle engineer

But the gunslinger exists

Tf2 wasn't made for Heavy having a weapon that literally is leagues above the rest (besides stock) aka the tomislav

I say my weapon is considerably balanced in terms of tf2

[frosty wedge]

Counter point
https://youtube.com/shorts/vAk9cZ5Nong?si=3uIzu0fR7AL9Rpjn

[strange coral]

and could be good in tf2c

[manic crater]

doesn't fit spy just as i said

and it's not a good idea to give a actually decent weapon to spy of all classes

[strange coral]

Now that is genuinely bad take

[frosty wedge]

That is just a bad take

[strange coral]

Engineer has genuinely good primaries

and im pretty sure he was meant for being defensive

so why cant spy have good primaries?

Is it because of the kunai's existence?

Cause that dont exist in tf2c

[manic crater]

but he cannot just appear at the back lines and gun people down

[strange coral]

flanking.

[manic crater]

which is exactly what spy can do

[strange coral]

engineer CAN appear in your backlines and gun you down

by FLANKING

so can scout

and pyro

[manic crater]

which can be shut down by anyone with a eye

[strange coral]

You sir are very delusional if you think spy shouldnt have decent primaries

[manic crater]

spy can literally go invisible and go at the speed of scout at will

[strange coral]

AND that demoknight is bad

[manic crater]

don't call me sir.

[strange coral]

oh

your a woman

My apologizes. "Ma'am".

[manic crater]

not worth arguing with someone who can't realize why breaking a class intended role for better smg sniper isn't a good idea

[strange coral]

You're opinions, at least some of them

Are Delusional, "Ma'am"

[strange coral]

its not better then stock thats for sure

[manic crater]

yours are more tho

[strange coral]

My idea is at least fine

You can't even comprehend the thought that

Spy could have DECENT GUNS

Or the existence of demoknight being a good thing

[manic crater]

ask literally anybody else and they will say the same

it just isn't a good

idea

[strange coral]

You, is my idea good?

[manic crater]

ofc going to the one person that agrees

[strange coral]

You said

to ask literally anybody

Therefore

I did ask

"anybody"

[manic crater]

then do it again but this time ask literally anybody else

[strange coral]

Okay

[normal oak]

I don't really like this particular weapon idea, but @manic crater saying Spy doesn't deserve good weapons is insane

It implies Spy is supposed to be shit by design, which is totally not true lol

[manic crater]

for combat

[jade goblet]

Um wrong at bud

[strange coral]

The infamous "Gun" spy has:

Whicj

btw

[manic crater]

a shitty revolver

[strange coral]

can kill a light class pretty easily

[manic crater]

literally everything else can

but way easier

[strange coral]

Do you just have a hatred for spy having good weapons because you can't comprehend it?

Comprehend the fact spy can have good weapons perhaps

THE DIAMONDBACK for example

sure its annoying to deal with sometimes

But it is a great primary

[manic crater]

i can comprehend spy was designed to be weaker at head to head combat pretty well

and that revolver was made to be a last resort

[normal oak]

I think having guns that are designed to help Spy (for retreating, or finishing low enemies from a distance) is the right way to go. I like the "+Cloak" stat from the video above, but I'd probably not make it a machine-gun, rather a faster shooting revolver that sacrifices 10, or maybe 15% of damage. That would be a good Spy's gun side-grade which fullfils the role of a stealthy frenchman

[manic crater]

does anybody but spies care or likes fighting against free 102

[strange coral]

As a medic main

Yes

Yes I do

[manic crater]

exactly

[strange coral]

I do enjoy fighting diamondback spies

[manic crater]

then you're on a very small minorities of people

spy needs anything but a smg

[strange coral]

spy can have an smg, he would know how to use it

He is a spy, he would know how to use a lot of weapons, but chooses the stealthy ones

(why he doesnt use a silenced pistol is beyond me)

So a silenced, concealable smg, isnt out of his leagues

it could be balanced too

[manic crater]

*it cant

[strange coral]

*it can

I feel like you genuinely hate the fact that tf2 is evolving past its old princibles of design

And eventually, spy is gonna have a damn fine primary for fighting

and demoknight will have more swords

[normal oak]

Honestly it kinda goes against "what you see is what you get". SMG looks all powerful and what-not, but it'd have to be balanced around Spy, who's not the best class for direct combat.

Player reaction would basically be this:
Oh, an SMG for Spy! It must be gr- oh it's shit.

Weapons should fulfill power-fantasy of a class they're designed for.

[manic crater]

that's never used for any kind of actual evolution

[normal oak]

Even if that power-fantasy is having no power in combat

[strange coral]

it does a flat 80 damage

no rampup included

but rampup included its like

[manic crater]

last time someone used "tf2 is evolvin past it's old princibles" it was for ruining the artstyle

and what we got from that

[strange coral]

its artstyle wasnt ruined

honestly im glad it strayed from it

eventually it would get a little old

[manic crater]

literally nothing because nobody used any of the new cosmetics

people aren't here for smg spy

[strange coral]

Then leave

If you hate this weapon so much

and you cant convince me this is bad

then leave

[normal oak]

Nahh I disagree. Cartoon retro-futuristic art-style is eternal. I mean live TF2 still looks great all those years later even if it strayed from the original artistic vision

[manic crater]

the worst argument ever

[normal oak]

And it'd look great even if it didn't stray from that vision

[strange coral]

Okay "dude"

[manic crater]

"then leave" doesn't explain why should people accept a gun that nobody asked for

[manic crater]

you aren't getting anywhere by missgendering

[strange coral]

Well reading your bio, your trans right?

so by birth, you were infact a boy

so by technicality

I am not misgendering

[normal oak]

I mean, you put it out here in the public. Gotta get used to feedback, positive or not. And the negative one tends to be even more helpful in the long run!

Creating stuff is fun, but the unfun part is important too

[strange coral]

Okay a bit too far on my end

[manic crater]

finally you realized that

i don't even care if you do i barely know you

[strange coral]

Same.