Jarate

[pure jay]

i know that new weapons are the main idea, but jarate would be nice and it would fit.

I just think it feels kinda “classic”

[primal shell]

yes

[hasty lichen]

🥀

[indigo quest]

https://tenor.com/view/suction-cup-man-the-fuck-the-fuck-is-that-supposed-to-mean-what-is-that-what-is-this-gif-17617274599194195373

[hasty lichen]

A flower that has wilted, or is dying. Generally depicted as a limp, faded red rose drooping over the to the right on a dried-out, green stem, shedding a petal.
Wilted Flower was approved as part of Unicode 9.0 in 2016 and added to Emoji 3.0 in 2016.

[still obsidian]

so #retro

[indigo quest]

I asked what it means, not what it is. I have an eyeball…. It’s not mine but it works.

[hasty lichen]

ask Grok

[indigo quest]

Don’t trust them. She’s with the algorithm.

[hasty lichen]

ask ChatGPT

[carmine vault]

sniper does not need to be able to throw out a janky projectile that gives free minicrits

[pure jay]

Fair point

[carmine vault]

maybe if somehow that only applies to him but still just defeats the point of sniper needing to either hit a quickscope when someone's right infront of him with the full intent of killing him as fast as possible or back up with a weak pea shooter of a gun to defend himself

[hasty lichen]

i also think a jar of pee is a bit too wacky for what tf2c goes for but maybe im wrong

[carmine vault]

that too

also

wouldn't really matter if it only applies to sniper but if you just port it to tf2c with no changes then i think the second biggest problem is that the sniper can just apply a even worse mark for death

[hasty lichen]

even that would be terrible if combined with the hunstman or hunting revolver

[carmine vault]

because you'd be a bright piss yellow blob that takes minicrits for several seconds

literally anyone with a eyes can and will shoot you meaning you'd be basically sacrificing yourself for a sniper pick because he pressed 2 and m1 in your general direction

[livid pelican]

Jarate is OP and would require nerfs to fit tho

[carmine vault]

or a complete rework onto something less cancerous

[pure jay]

yeah thats what i would think

[carmine vault]

i have no idea how so im letting yall decide how to get it to work

[hasty lichen]

i dont think even a rework would make it in because again the concept of the weapon sounds too wacky for tf2c at least in my opinion

[still obsidian]

a jar of water that sniper can throw to hydrate his team :)

[carmine vault]

that

could actually kinda work if you give it some kind of way to atleast do something to enemies while getting rid of debuffs for you and your team

or maybe could be something to just make melee just slightly more damage or range

you'd still be making yourself even weaker at close range but not just helpless

-# or yknow you can use huntsman or smth :3

[indigo quest]

when the support class gives out support potential:

[carmine vault]

btw he's not a support class at all

[tepid flower]

he's a support pick class

[hasty lichen]

he should support by taking out key targets not by applying debuffs like mini crits to a group of enemies like the jarate does

[livid pelican]

"too wacky"
coilgun and anchor exist

xddd

[carmine vault]

still not quite the support class that deserves free minicrits for fucking off at another country and sometimes pop in to piss at people for free "win team fight" bomb

[livid pelican]

just add timer falloff on splash

less centered hit = less time coated in piss

[indigo quest]

the Devious Class role line up:

[hasty lichen]

even if it was balanced i dont think the jarate fits sniper in the first place anyway i dont think he's the kinda class to apply debuffs in that way

[carmine vault]

it still has the problem of making it easier to win 1v1 fights and mark someone to death if they do kill you and mind you he's not gonna be at your doorstep so you can go back to safety

[indigo quest]

I like the idea of serious, paid assassin throwing jars to disorient his victims.

[carmine vault]

it's not the weapon for sniper of all classes

if someone really wants jarate just add some kind of rifle based on sydyney sleeper so it atleast fits with what sniper should do

[amber estuary]

now i like the comedic vibe, imo its on the same level as a guy built like a brick shithouse eating a sandvich to heal severe bullet wounds

but mechanically its mostly a spy counter (a VERY absolute spy counter), and if used as a team it becomes an absurdly powerful support item

[fierce pebble]

Make it a Medic primary. He needs extra stuff to do that helps his team but is bad for self defense. He needs more decisions he can take that don't distract him from healing for long. Medics have urine samples but to feel less goofy it could also be rethemed to some kind of poison grenade

[tepid flower]

make him throw a jar with spy's head in it

[noble schooner]

It would not be nice, and it would definitely not fit. No more screwing spy over, not for sniper, not for medic, please.

[noble schooner]

This isn't really a dicision though. If it's bad for self defense, then he's just going to throw it into the first enemy group he sees the second cooldown timer is over.

Plus the best thing about medic in TF2C right now is that you can actually use the syringe gun without consciously putting yourself at a disadvantage (because there's no more advantageous option to replace it), and i would really love if any medic primary unlock that would come to the game won't change this.

[fierce pebble]

You may be right. Maybe that was the wrong wording to use anyway: I'm fine with Medic having self defense options. If this jarate or grenade helped him escape from enemies pressuring him, that would be fine. They just need to be weapons that don't outperform the Syringe Gun and don't tempt Medics to run off and kill enemies

I'm sure there's a balance we could find where this is not automatically the better option for the team and Syringe Gun usage stays relevant. It would be hard to make a weapon anywhere near as much of an upgrade as Crusader's Crossbow is, haha

[honest scarab]

give medic a concussion grenade

[livid pelican]

Kidney in a jar

Isn't this exactly why crossbow is OP tho

[noble schooner]

I think the best way of getting around medic's primary weapons would be to leave syringe gun as the only reliable self defense option. Any utility or support option should either be unable to damage enemies at all or be VERY inconsistent with it (in the similar way how shock therapy is working). Essentially there should be consideration of whether or not medic trusts his team enough to use a support item that will definitely not be suited for self defense or not trust his team enough and would use syringe gun to have a chance at finishing off someone who is trying to take him down alone.

And the support option should not be powerful at all, since the syringe gun is already rather weak as a weapon

[noble schooner]

I'm also very surprised that the same idea wasn't implemented with uberspritze, since it's the exact problem of outclassing bone saw you talk about here

[fierce pebble]

Then we agree! Whatever this Medic jarate does wouldn't damage enemies directly at all

[fierce pebble]

could genuinely work

[indigo quest]

i don't think medic should throw piss, maybe something like the Self-aware beauty mark (some green like substance.)

[fierce pebble]

Given we have GRN and YLW, it'd probably be some kind of purple poison

[still obsidian]

Medic finds a mysterious gemstone

[hasty lichen]

thing is even if the syringe gun had better self defense capabilities it would still be overthrown by any kind of utility option for the same slot, even if it left you with no way to defend yourself the extra utility is almost always gonna be worth it, especially if it supports yout team

as a medic its almost always optimal to trade your self defense for more team support, thats what happens with the crossbow in live

i think medic primaries should only be self defense weapons

[digital herald]

we should screw sniper over more

[noble schooner]

That's the spirit!

[noble schooner]

That's exactly why utility should only be reserved for either medigun replacements or melee weapons, and ALWAYS be at best average. Crossbow became so overpowered exactly because it added too much utility and support capabilities over the more damaging self defense options.

[tepid flower]

need a Razorback except it counters headshots

[noble schooner]

I would honestly be fine with medic getting a reborn TFC small shotgun, that would deal ridiculously weak damage but would be a bit more consistent than syringe gun. Essentially making it high risk high reward syringes vs lower risk but lower reward shotty choice.

[noble schooner]

That's called darwins danger shield

[tepid flower]

oh yeah forgot it used to do that

[indigo quest]

Close enough