Slower uber build for rejuvinator

[marble ravine]

Been kinda ruminating on this for a while, but I think the rejuv builds uber too fast on directs. I’ve noticed that on a lot of matches, one team will have a lot of difficulty pushing forward because the enemy medic will always be able to pop a rejuvinator uber to counter them. While this can be done with stock, it usually requires skill, good timing, and good usage of crit heals to do so. I’ve always considered the rejuvinator to be the “keep your team alive” medigun akin to the quick fix rather than a hard counter to other medics. I think it’d be more enjoyable to fight if it just built uber slower (or maybe didnt build it at all on splash? Idk)

[knotty girder]

I don’t even think it’s necessarily an issue of under gain on directs so much as it feels like the Rejuv cheats the Uber build as is, often times I’ll stop healing and still see my Uber charge build up. It’s not necessarily a bad mechanic either especially cause the Rejuv Uber kinda sucks in a lot of situations anyways, just a bit overtuned.

I don’t know how you’d fix this but it’s also really easy to either accidentally or totally intentionally screw your team over using the Rejuv Uber, since it applies to all targets in a radius if you place it on objectives particularly small ones like carts, you can effectively block your own teammates from capturing

[marble ravine]

Its not specifically uber gain on directs but uber build speed as a whole

And while you can definitely fuck your team over with it, I’ve noticed a very consistent pattern of the gamestate not changing because the rejuvinator medics keep popping bubble to stuff the other teams ubers, but because they have the rejuvinator they cant push the other team back either

Maps like dustbowl, gold rush, and hoodoo are ofc some of the more obvious and extreme examples of this just because of how chokey they are, but it occurs to varying degrees on a lot of maps, like frigid

I saw a game of frigid where one team had a rejuvinator medic while all the others were using stock or kritz and the point didnt change hands once. As soon as other medics started using the rejuvinator though, the point began to change hands

Its like carcinization, all becomes crabs rejuvinator

[covert rover]

if your medics are struggling to fight a rejuvenator then maybe it's because they're bad

(and nerfing a weapon by making it harder to use isn't a nerf, it's an inconvenience until everyone catches up)

[marble ravine]

How are medics meant to fight the rejuvinator? They can’t build uber faster than it, and they can’t negate it in any meaningful way, there’s just always a rejuvinator bubble ready

[covert rover]

do you pop uber as soon as you hit 100%?

and I'm not surprised that the grenade launcher splash healing weapon is stronger on chokier, tightier maps

[marble ravine]

No? But neither are rejuvinator medics

Because the uber is more niche, they’re often waiting for an enemy uber or kritz to use it against, or a similar major push

[covert rover]

what's stopping you from forcing them to pop first?

[marble ravine]

Them being even further behind their team than a regular medic for one

While regular medics kinda have to go out into the danger zone to get heals, rejuvinator medics often stay in the safest possible areas while they build their uber because they can do si effectively

[covert rover]

what map gives the rejuvenator enough space to abuse the increased range in a place that isn't a sniper sightline

[tacit trellis]

Not even talking about a couple of some very old, but popular sandy, I would ever say DUSTY maps (dustbowlgoldrushhoodoo) AHEM. But basically any corner is literal safe zone for healing grenade launcher users as long, as there's no spies/scouts.

[covert rover]

...a corner is also a safe zone for the other medi guns

[marble ravine]

Most of them actually

[marble ravine]

Technically yes, but you’ll be much less effective

[covert rover]

not really

maybe you will get 1% more range thanks to the splash but it's basically the same thing

[marble ravine]

No? The rejuvinator has much more range than stock, and you can ofc heal multiple people at people

If you hide far behind a corner as a stock med, you’re much more limited by range and can only heal one person at once

Stock and kritz are encouraged to play a lot more aggressively as a result, especially with the shock therapy

Rejuvs kinda just sit further behind instead of moving with their team and pop the bubble whenever they see a significant threat

[covert rover]

"shock therapy encourages aggressive play" lmao

[marble ravine]

I find its fairly conducive to playing aggressively since you can quickly get your demo, soldier, or especially heavy back up to full while they’re taking lots of damage

[covert rover]

healing a player every X seconds to max health while everyone else in your team is forced to play slower and stop more often because you heal them slower

maybe that's why you all are struggling with the rejuvenator

[marble ravine]

Healing a heavy to full instantly is more effective in the long run and keeps him from taking up all my heals for a lengthy period of time whole also allowing us to keep the pressure on in heated situations. With proper timing, he effectively has over 800 HP. 450 from overheal + full health, + 300 from the shock therapy, and at least 50 from the continued healing. Also, that doesnt have anything to do with the anti-uber weapon building uber faster than uber

If both medics die infrequently, the rejuv medic will always win simply because his uber is usually ready before the stock medics uber. Stock uber is usually used to push through chokes or nests, which the rejuvinator bubble locks down very effectively

And it just entirely negates kritz

At any rate, rejuv medics at least survive just as long as stock meda, if not longer

[covert rover]

30 seconds to heal a player to max health vs telling your heavy to count to 15

[marble ravine]

Moreso “taking 5 seconds to heal every player to max health vs taking 15 to get my heavy to full”

Plus the ability to preserve momentum by giving your heavy full health during a push

[covert rover]

if your heavy is close to dying before a push then you all are jumping in before everyone is ready

[marble ravine]

Not much point to running the shock with the rejuv though, you heal players pretty quickly if you hir your shots, and the spritze lets you extend the uber

[marble ravine]

During a push

Not before

[covert rover]

why is your heavy dying in a push

[marble ravine]

Okay see there are other players shooting him

Sometimes enough to outdamage my healing

Or sometimes I have to pop early

Sometimes shit just goes awry

Having an 800 hp powerhouse is pretty fucking baller

[dense briar]

Kinda unrelated to the thread but I was happy to hear they lowered the healing on the rejuvenator on directs

[covert rover]

Are you seriously trying to push an entire enemy team with only two players: you and the heavy

[marble ravine]

It works more often than not

As long as I hit my shock therapy at the right time

[tacit trellis]

...And they don't have Sniper

[marble ravine]

Or we dont get backstabbed, yeah. Flanking is heloful for avoiding long sightlines though

[covert rover]

You're surprised that you're not winning a 2v12

[dense briar]

Also, yeah I've done some nasty defences with the medic on rejuv, say what you want about the rejuv being good on defence, but when you can heal heavies to full health quickly without even needing critical healing is too strong imo, even on offense. And especially on defence

[marble ravine]

Exactly

[marble ravine]

Its not usually actually a 2v12, usually closed to a 2v4-5

Plus, again, you’re missing the point if the thread to focus on the shock therapy

[dense briar]

But yeah a heavy or rather any power class healed by the rejuv is very hard to kill unless you have a sniper or spy. More than it should be imo

[marble ravine]

Basically forcing the enemy team to also run rejuv or two medics is pretty fucking powerful since you’re invalidating at least one medics uber/kritz provided you’re not dying or immediately using it

[dense briar]

Yeah that's how this weapon's always felt to me, so strong it forces the other team to run it too

Also I got told this is a non issue before when I said this, But its problems really stick out to me in arena mode. Like criticize arena all you want but there's really no other weapon that's just so overwhelmingly strong there compared to its same slot counterparts. and the problems aren't unique to arena only, they just are more noticeable there

[marble ravine]

Mhmm. Honestly the healing can be a bit much, but I’ve always considered the healmg bit to be the most interesting. Its like a more dynamic and unique quick fix

[marble ravine]

With the healing and uber rate I can definitely see that, especially in 4team

Playing frigid when all four teams have a rejuvinator medic genuinely fucking sucks, there’s at least one going off every 10-20 seconds

[dense briar]

Yeah, I think if it got somewhat slower healing and maybe a slower Uber it'd make the rejuv alright with me. Because honestly the Uber really isn't weak at all

[covert rover]

(this is a good thing )

[dense briar]

Yeah it's genuinely a must have there

[dense briar]

Being able to Uber and overheal everyone in a relatively big bubble is still very strong. I'd say it's even somewhat on par in being strong and reliaby with the stock uber

[marble ravine]

Yeah no ngl the bubble is super good for just healing your team and providing a safe zone even ignoring how it hard counters the other mediguns

[knotty girder]

Actually you could technically do this fairly easily if you had a pyro willing to sacrifice himself

The bubble itself is situational, it can go from downright better than stock if you’re on defense to probably the single worst pick when trying to push on offense

[marble ravine]

Yeah if you had a pyro willing and able to run into a bunch of invincible players and push them out of a big uber bubble

Which like, on a ledge sure

[dense briar]

Even on offence just deploying it around a corner or in a choke is a still good, you can destroy any sentry around the corner or force the engineer and enemy to fall back and lose territory, and after the Uber everyone in the bubble will be fully overhealed. I honestly don't think it's situational at all

[knotty girder]

Not as good as an actual Uber you can push up with

[marble ravine]

It also goes through walls which is very handy actually

And… probably a bit busted

[knotty girder]

Well it’s just like stuffing an actual Uber, you push them away and stall their actual Uber time, except this time you’ve got a dome you can actively push them out of

[marble ravine]

Definitely imposes a few limits on designinf new points

[novel otter]

not too sure HOW you would nerf this, my only thought is have the kritz still be faster as it was already good for countering medics in a mostly fair way that didn't feel like an overwatch "fuck your ultimate" button

[marble ravine]

Not really no

[knotty girder]

This I didn’t know, and sounds like an active bug that should be fixed

[dense briar]

Well that's like the one upside the stock uber has is mobility. I think with all of these upsides the rejuv has it's build up should not be much faster than stock

[marble ravine]

Instead of one person and a helpless medic pushing up, its a ton of invincible people and a bloodthristy medic eager to extend his bubble

And ofc any of the meds teammates are beelining for the bubble

Try to rush it down to stuff it isnt very advantageous unless theres a small amount of people and its on a ledge or you’re ubered as well

[knotty girder]

Idk, the bubble never seems particularly oppressive because it’s stuck to one spot unless you’re defending a point. Otherwise you’re chained to one spot

[novel otter]

yeah the ability to uber the whole team supercedes it being stationary with a lil bit of thinking and good timing

[knotty girder]

Plus it’s really fun to toss 8 stickies under the bubble and watch the mindless sheep actively walk into your trap

[marble ravine]

I mean, again, the main issue I have is how reliably it stuffs uber and kritz unless the rejuv medic is dying frequently

[novel otter]

however something about it clearly stops games in their track and the uber being essentially a vacc uber in a way (budget ubercharge whose downsides are mostly superceded by spamming) isn't helping anyone

[knotty girder]

I don’t think it should be able to extend past geometry, and I definitely think it’s kinda crazy when I run the Rejuv and get a bunch of Uber whenever a grenade lightly grazes someone. But I can’t agree that it’s like particularly OP so much as it can be a little annoying

[marble ravine]

If it built slower so that its technically possible to build full uber before stock but just difficult, I’d be dine with that

[marble ravine]

For sure, it stalls the game and stunts the gameplay loop

[knotty girder]

Because it keeps players stationary and it’s short enough that I rarely ever see Rejuv medics make much of a dent in a solid defense

Stock Ubers are clearly better on offense in most situations I’m playing medic on the servers I play on

NA servers, EST usually during the week for reference

[novel otter]

ive seen games lost because both teams had a medic but one was using rejuv, attack or defense

[knotty girder]

Yeah exactly

The rejuv is a bad solo medigun

You need a stock medic if the other team has a stock medic, and that’s honestly a good thing

[dense briar]

I just think it'd need a slower healing and Uber and it'd be fine

[novel otter]

n. no the rejuv won like, 8/10 times without a huge skill imbalance

[knotty girder]

I don’t think it needs a slower healing rate, initially I did agree that it needed a bit of a nerf but upon further inspection, the rejuv is hard capped when it comes to breaking strongholds

[dense briar]

Yeah that's how I feel like it plays too. The constant healing makes up for the lack of mobility while ubering and just overwhelms the other team too much

[knotty girder]

You say this like you’ve got hard statistics, I’d be careful doing that if you don’t have them

I don’t either, so it’s hearsay against hearsay, but the rejuv struggles to keep up with a good medic who knows how to spread heals on stock

Additionally the Rejuv sucks for pocketing which is important if you want to break through a strong defense

[novel otter]

this is game balance, it's mostly hearsay and personal opinion

[knotty girder]

Reminder I was actively trying to abuse everything the Rejuv was best at in my own personal testing

[knotty girder]

Not necessarily, scatterguns killing people real good close up isn’t hearsay or personal opinion

[novel otter]

but it being overpowered cause it's six shots in the clip is

[dense briar]

I honestly feel the same way too, other mediguns just can't keep up with the constant group healing and Ubers of the rejuv

[knotty girder]

Sure, whether or not it’s a good thing is an opinion or not

But I’m not arguing what is or isn’t good

I’m telling you in my experience pocketing is far stronger with stock and the group healing of the rejuv is just barely keeps up with stock IF you’re spreading heals correctly

[novel otter]

we are, we are arguing whether by our experience the rejuv is an awful medigun or an overpowered medigun

[knotty girder]

I will say I think group healing with the Rejuv is easier than stock

[knotty girder]

More so trying to define what it is or isn’t good at, whether or not Scout is good at close range or not if you will

What is the Rejuv good at, what should it be good at and how it compares to stock.

I know from my own experience that I’m actively more effective with stock, but the rejuv can also do things stock flat out can’t with longer ranged healing

[dense briar]

The healing rate is insane tho, even with heal spreading and critical healing it's nothing compared to the rejuv

[novel otter]

that's still a subjective measurement, ex: spy is designed to be great at sneaky close range but whether he achieves that is very subjective

[knotty girder]

Hence my stance that it’s a great secondary medigun

[knotty girder]

That’s less what range he’s suited for and more if he’s well balanced

Nobody is arguing spy is better at long range

[marble ravine]

Uber rate at least, yeah

[dense briar]

Ig it's the mod devs that are gonna have to decide what they want to do in the end. We're just saying what we feel like it true and sharing our experiences here

[novel otter]

so we're defining what the rejuv is good at unless its a balance opinion or whether its balanced?

[knotty girder]

This was my initial thought but when testing it in an actual game, unless you’ve got a team of heavies it’s just not feasible unless you’re hitting directs, which isn’t particularly hard… until you’re healing a team

[novel otter]

this... is so arbitrary

[marble ravine]

Like I’m not arguing the rejuv is good in every scenario, which is what y’all are making it out to be

[knotty girder]

And then if your team is actively taking damage, you’re spending more time reloading than healing

[marble ravine]

Just that its a bit too good on defense for how fast its uber builds

[knotty girder]

This, I don’t necessarily disagree with the main point of this thread which is that the Uber build is kinda nuts

[late sky]

Semi related but I feel arena uber gain in general should be nerfed

[knotty girder]

But it’s not some demon medigun that destroys the balance and ruins the game

[novel otter]

please don't do custom gamemode balancing

[dense briar]

I'd say the lingering healing effect and the burst healing make up for the reload gaps. If anything I think your teammates would be more likely to die with other mediguns in the first place cause you can't heal in a group and as fast

[novel otter]

i mean i never said that, just ive lost to rejuv medics more times than i should

[knotty girder]

I feel like it’s easier to heal groups with it, but I wouldn’t even say it’s better at it than stock unless you’re sitting next to a resupply and you’ve got a team of revving heavies

[dense briar]

Arena isn't a custom game mode

[novel otter]

custom balancing FOR gamemodes, if you'd like me to rephrase

[knotty girder]

That’s also tough to define, is it a skill issue on your part, is it a bad team causing you to fail or is it the Rejuv itself? I can’t know that especially when your experience contradicts mine when I was actively trying to abuse everything the Rejuv had

[dense briar]

Ah... Well yeah I don't think it'd need that

[late sky]

Sorry I meant 4 team

4 team uber generation should be slightly nerfed xddd

[marble ravine]

Its already a thing. Uber builds faster in 4team (and arena iirc?) and vip and vipr have no random crits

[late sky]

Cuz it's bonkers how fast it is

[knotty girder]

Maybe just remove arena mode and make everyone happy

[marble ravine]

I think with stock and kritz its reasonable but with the juvie its fucking insane lmao

Frigid with one rejuvinator med on each team is actually hell

[dense briar]

Electric whizzing every 5 seconds

[novel otter]

i can definitively attribute some of those to team idiocy or because im still not the greatest player despite playing medic for like nearly 5 years, but i can also safely say it became "oh they're using the rejuv, guess we lose" in a similar way to how fighting the vacc feels

[novel otter]

why... especially non-4team arena

[knotty girder]

See this is where I’m on the back foot because I never had issues with the vaccinator either, but maybe I just never played against a good vaccinator medic, idk. I don’t really think about the enemy medic much past “is he glowing” or “can I safely violate the geneva convention?”

[late sky]

Related to the original post tho

Do we need to nerf the weaker medigun?

[knotty girder]

Evidently a lot of people disagree with that assertion

[late sky]

Ok but vaccinator is OP, nader is weaker xddd

[novel otter]

guess that's fair

[dense briar]

Also I have tried like multiple times to use the rejuv and medigun in succession and I've basically always felt like rejuv was just better than the medigun no matter which team or map I was on

[knotty girder]

Like I said I dunno Ig I never fought a good vacc medic

[novel otter]

now we're back to defining whether the rejuv is op or not

[knotty girder]

I honestly don’t think it remotely is

I used to have a hunch it might be too strong after hearing complaints, but I just have better success with stock most of the time

[novel otter]

i personally have had better success with the kritz but fighting it feels like an absurd uphill battle

[late sky]

I meannn

Shorter uber (6s), static uber (easy to break LoS), puts pressure on the medic to hit shots which does mean it can be interrupted more often through pressure

Only upsides are essentially faster healing during combat should you hit your majority of shots directly

[knotty girder]

This is a key thing that I see poisoning the well on so much weapon discussion in this community

Sniper is in theory the single greatest class in TF2

[novel otter]

id say its solely because the ubergain is kind of absurd

[knotty girder]

But don’t lie to me, I play this game way too often, often to know that none of you are good enough to make sniper the greatest class

[late sky]

Stock uber counters nader uber tho

[knotty girder]

Likewise, I know you guys aren’t pipe Jesus and hitting those three hit kills

[marble ravine]

No the fuck it does not lmao

[knotty girder]

Uber a pyro and it does

[late sky]

I am

[marble ravine]

If you uber a pyro sometimes it does

But you still kinda just have to get around it

[knotty girder]

Ok so if you’re in a little box, pyro does not counter a rejuv bubble

Cause then you can’t push them out

Oh and bricks

[novel otter]

kritz already was good for stuffing ubers because of it being faster but timing it wrong means that you get fucked by stock, rejuv builds too damn quick so they can either kill you earlier easier or they react to your uber and you have to uber a pyro

[knotty girder]

Scout bricks

[late sky]

If the nader medic uses rejuv in a little box he's a dumb dumb and wasted the uber lol

[knotty girder]

You can push those guys right out

[knotty girder]

Ofc, which is sorta my point

[marble ravine]

Or if you’re in an open area where they can just move back in easily, or if there’s a lot of them, or if its in a choke, idk, I don’t see a lot of situations where stock is actually countering the rejuv

Usually I see the rejuv used to counter the rejuv and stock and kritz

[novel otter]

or yknow, the pyro is shot before she gets into airblast range

[late sky]

It's a lot harder to prevent a stock uber from doing harm to your team than to prevent a nader uber from harming anyone at all

[marble ravine]

Well we’re assuming the rejuv medic popped first and the stock medic for some reason popped to countee that when usually its the other way around

[novel otter]

ahh

[marble ravine]

Typically the rejuv medic is popping to counter kritz or stock

Or sometimes another rejuv

[knotty girder]

I usually use the Rejuv bubble to direct my team into advantageous positions

It’s great when you’ve got a team of lemmings

[novel otter]

which admittedly is kinda funny

[dense briar]

That's sounds too situational imo. You'd need to pop afterwards and have a pyro you can Uber that knows what to do, and even then you are forced into ubering a pyro and not another power class that can let's say, destroy a sentry nest or something.

[knotty girder]

Me requiring team coordinating in MY fortress? Could never

[marble ravine]

Plus you’re wasting your better uber to attack someones worse uber that they built faster and easier than you

And you have to spend the whole thing to deal with it usually, assuming you’re successful

[knotty girder]

Tbf the kritz had a similar appeal

But I wouldn’t mind the current Rejuv Uber build if it took more skill, e.g. builds faster in directs

[dense briar]

Yeah. Not to mention if they popped rejuv and there is no pyro on your team for you to Uber who will do their job, they can just body block you

[marble ravine]

Kritz has a similar appeal but the difference is that it doesnt counter ubers

[knotty girder]

Idk, Uber pyros and really anything with pushback works great

[marble ravine]

Yeah let me uber the fishwhackeh sniper

[knotty girder]

I’ve laid stickies to push enemies out of the bubble, I’ve used bricks on scout, and ofc

Pyro

The pushback class

And I don’t think it’s crazy to Uber a class to counter something another class has done

[marble ravine]

But even then you’re still using up your uber specifically to deal with something that builds faster than your uber does

[late sky]

If you're telling me the best way to use nader is to counter stock uber by popping uber I feel nader will never be able to make a proper push

[knotty girder]

^

[late sky]

And overrely on dry pushes

[knotty girder]

I feel like on offense this is a losing proposition for the Rejuv

[marble ravine]

Using the rejuv on offense is already a losing proposition

[late sky]

Truth nuke

[knotty girder]

Not wrong but doesn’t exactly help your point much

[novel otter]

yall, you talk about slightly slowing the rejuv's uber is like nerfing the bison for the fourth time

[marble ravine]

But its really fucking good for defense because the measures that would otherwise be used to kill your team and destry your nest now get consistently tied down trying to get by the giant uber bubble

[late sky]

LOL

[late sky]

I mean the uber doesn't protect buildings so

[novel otter]

which is kind of absurd? i don't think it'll be thrown down a trash compactor the moment it has a slower uber build

[novel otter]

that's true

[late sky]

Stock can mostly still just walk in

[marble ravine]

It doesnt but like. Its a giant invulnerable flesh wall of people shooting you

[novel otter]

who can also bodyblock you

[late sky]

Stop ubering heavies

[marble ravine]

Its being used much further up from sentry nests

[novel otter]

?????

[marble ravine]

Because only heavies have collision against enemies apparently

[late sky]

Nah because heavies can't shoot through

[novel otter]

im not going to uber a scout every time i need to fight a rejuv

[late sky]

Demos can easily not get they projectiles blocked

[marble ravine]

Man thatd be so cool if I could move past the group of invincible people with him into an angle where we can shoot the nest

[late sky]

And the stock uber still lasts longer aaaa

[marble ravine]

Not unless it gets used first

Which it usually is

[novel otter]

and it still wastes most of your uber

[late sky]

There's still 2s of a window

For it to be equal or worse

[novel otter]

TWO seconds

[marble ravine]

2 seconds of a window assuming that both meds pop at the same time

And that the rejuv medic doesnt just. Wait until him and his team are in danger

[late sky]

Yes man at that time demo can fire 3 stickies and det them all lol, that's how long 2s is in this dumb game

[novel otter]

buddy i don't think stock uber having two seconds over the rejuv is really the gotcha you think it is

[late sky]

It's not a gotcha it's how I've seen it help in practice aaaa

[marble ravine]

Especially not when the rejuv is usually being used about two seconds after the uber has been popped

And you’re more than two seconds away from the nest

And their team is spread out again

And ofc they could just. Have a pyro.

or a fishwhackeh sniper since they dont have to pick one person to uber

[novel otter]

in the situation of using the rejuv to counter stock, stock lasting two more seconds overall really. doesn't mean a lot especially when practically the rejuv is going to be a second or two in reaction to your uber

[late sky]

It do be a little silly to put it like that because nader is forcing the defense team to hold a specific place and never gain terrain back

They'll eventually sucumb to pressure

Stock on defense allows to push the attacking team back

[novel otter]

they could throw it forward and regain ground, how much further depends on the situation and map but the downside of being stationary is superceded by spamming it and being a lil clever

[late sky]

Sure if you giga camp a specific place nader uber will do better than stock

But you know that means you'll lose to pressure in the long game for the area you're giving up

[late sky]

No it doesn't, they just break LoS

Even Nova agreed using it in offense is a losing scenario compared to stock, so using it on defense to be offensive is the same result

Stock would push them so much more further back

(given the patient makes good use, of course)

[novel otter]

i mean that's still ground you've gained for people to fill into, i don't think its as absurd on offense but it's still really good

also "even nova"?

[late sky]

Ye

Anything wrong with saying that?

[marble ravine]

Comes off as condescending

At any rate

The rejuv is very good for holding ground but not for gaining it

Its good for keeping your team alive

The thing is, you see it on offense often because, well, losing ground sucks

[late sky]

Meant it as you'd agree with that sentence based on what you said, not something along the "even dumb dumb Nova would not think like You"

[marble ravine]

Its so good for countering enemy kritz and ubers that would otherwise push the front line back, even though you don’t make a ton of progress forward just with it. Thats also why its so good for defense. The rejuv generally keeps you r what losing ground against anything nomma

It at the very least feels good

[knotty girder]

2 seconds is often enough time to decimate a group of enemies as demo

Just a shame there isn’t anything that actively encourages enemies to group up

[novel otter]

could you stop being condescending

[marble ravine]

It is! The issue is just that rejuv is usually being popped around two seconds after stock

So they usually stall each other out

[knotty girder]

I feel like there isn’t much to be gained, at this point it feels mostly two for two, but that’s only in the grand scheme. I think a Uber build reduction on splash would be fine enough, but the idea that it’s OP overall is kind of nuts to me

I feel like unless anyone else has something to add, nobody is going to fully agree

[steel pagoda]

whats the rejuvinator again?

[covert rover]

healing grenade launcher

[knotty girder]

It’s the funny grenade launcher that shoots out hotspring water balloons to make your teammates feel warm and fuzzy inside

And also has the Halo 3 bubble shield on steroids as its Uber

Hm… actually

@marble ravine what if the bubble’s post was a physics property that could be pushed around?

[marble ravine]

Feels like that kinda swings the opposite way

[knotty girder]

Perhaps, you’d have to fine tune it ofc

But I had loads of fun back in my Halo days messing with the bubble shield post

While just slapping that trait and letting pyros get rid of your hard earned Uber for free is totally unfair, if we’re already reworking the thing…

You could totally round it out and MAKE it fair

Like uhhh what if you could deal some damage to the stand itself if you get inside and while it doesn’t destroy the Uber it does dislodge the generator, letting players push it via damage or just running into it

Hm, it’d have to be one team sided so you don’t have a portable bubble removing the entire point lol

Only problem is it’d be awfully easy to spam it out as a demo, cause it doesn’t reflect projectiles just gives invulnerability. But I think giving it more engaging counterplay could solve your problem with the Uber in particular, rather than making it just a bit more rare

Going the Bubble Shield route what if instead of invulnerability it heals sorta like a lvl3 dispenser and functioned as just a barrier, one that both teams could enter and deal damage to each other in

[marble ravine]

I don't think it needs a rework though tbh

I think just giving it a slower uber build in some way would work

[knotty girder]

It doesn’t, but it would be cool to make it something more fun to combat than just a boring stat change. You’re probably right that all it needs is a nerf to the Uber charge rate, but if you’re gonna play test… might as well go wild and try different things out

That’s what it’s all about after all

Cant imagine it’d be that hard to change the properties and see how it pans out, besides the best balance changes aren’t strictly nerfs or buffs but just a rework to make it more fun to combat while maintaining or even improving the fun factor when using it

[marble ravine]

Eh? I don't think playtesting wild, crazy changes is really necessary if the core concept of the weapon works well

For the rejuv, it does. It's just a little overtuned.

[knotty girder]

You’d have less of them, but I don’t think a slightly reduction would make them less annoying from what I’ve gathered above

[marble ravine]

Like, we just playtested a bunch of small changes and they were all pretty good tbh

[knotty girder]

Well a lot of things that sound goofy end up working in practice and vice versa, I know that from experience with my own projects

Makes me think it’d be cool to have a play test server that tries to implement the most popular suggestions and see how they actually play out

[marble ravine]

I'd like a reduction big enough that the rejuvinator doesn't consistently get build up fast enough to counter ubers or kritz. I think that it's a fun interaction, but not when it happens every single time. Just barely getting rejuvinator uber while the enemy is mid-uber would be so cool, but that just doesn't really happen right now

I don't see a need to rework it heavily, and I don't think it's that boring either? Why fix what isn't broken?

[novel otter]

-# i will say ive had the idea of being able to break the rejuv-canister either while its activating or if you get into the bubble

[steel pagoda]

i dunno if that would be good maybe

idk

[marble ravine]

I think a lot of people have had that idea, but it would make the uber very vulnerable and not very good for, well, holding

[novel otter]

yeah might fall under being TOO counterable

[knotty girder]

See it’s not a bad idea in of itself so much as it just wouldn’t work the way it is now

If you want to give it more interesting counter play, you also have to be willing to give it some extra benefits

[novel otter]

i dont think it NEEDS a rework, just an idea i wanted to throw out here

[knotty girder]

I mean I think that’s a good way of thinking tbh

[novel otter]

if so it'd obviously need compensating changes for being able to be stuffed by anyone with a gun

[knotty girder]

Just because it doesn’t need a rework doesn’t mean reworking a few things wouldn’t make it more interesting

You just gotta be careful so you’re not removing what people already like about it

[novel otter]

basically yeah

[steel pagoda]

whats its stats?

I could try to think of something even if I dunno what to do

since I am still new

[marble ravine]

I don't think it needs to have more stuff added to it though, it's an interesting and cohesive weapon as-is

[fresh urchin]

not being able to build on splash would just give it the baby faces blaster treatment. But i agree with the decreased heal rate.

[upper wren]

What I don't like about building uber on rejuv is the constant need to be shooting. What I want to do is keep a couple shots in my clip incase somebody needs it but nooooooooo I have to keep shooting people who are already overhealed or I drop uber rate.

[marble ravine]

I see where you’re coming from, but thf that is how the other mediguns work

I would like to see how the reload removed from the rejuvenator and have some other aspect of it nerfed to compensate would work though

[knotty girder]

The reload is annoying as hell so I get it, but that’s also necessary to keep it in check otherwise you could spam them. Plus a smart medic will avoid unnecessary shots, reload, then dish out overheal

Might sound minor but it’s a legitimate thing to keep in mind that adds an extra level of depth it wouldn’t have otherwise

[late sky]

Feels less cool to do this

The thing being more of a weapon is defenitely cooler than it being more similar to medigun

[knotty girder]

^

The point is that it mirrors grenade launchers more offensive players who don’t typically play support classes could enjoy

At this point I’m convinced the rejuv doesn’t really need many changes

It feels fine as is