#Thorny Watch - A watch that uses your blood instead of cloak!

81 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

cyan abyss
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"Make every drop count!"

• Uses your blood instead of cloak (leaves spy at 1 hp before de-cloaking)

  • Allows you to walk through enemies while cloaked
  • De-cloaking while inside of an enemy will telefrag them
thorn shale
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Oh dear god. blockciv_disgust

cyan abyss
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Im honestly surprised by the lack of custom weapons involving spy watches.

This watch is mean to act as high risk, high reward type of watch as it allows you to break through snipers and engineers camping their sentry nests without ever dropping your disguise or putting yourself at risk.

However as an escape tool, its not that great as any damage will essentially will remove any chance of escape.

thorn shale
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I don’t think allowing spy to Telefrag people is a good idea.

swift trench
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"Watch what happens when I use a spell I don't know!"

cyan abyss
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I disagree, in tf2 and tf2c its about players moving arounds to attack/defend the objective.

Getting into position to telefrag is not easy as everyone is moving around. Only snipers and camping engineers will be the most affected by it.

And even then, keep in mind your health is constantly being drained by the watch. Miss your chance to telefrag because your target moved then you're screwed

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Spy is a pick class who doesnt stick close to their teammates so they have to rely on healthpacks to stay afloat while having this watch equipped

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With the stock watch you could get away and cloak with the ammo your enemy dropped but with this watch, you cant

cyan abyss
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If the penalty of losing the health is too much. I was thinking of three options

+Medics healing speed increased by X%
+Max overheal increased by X%
+A successful telefrag restores 50% of your max health

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@thorn shale

thorn shale
cyan abyss
dusty pivot
dusty pivot
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ive thought of watches that run on your health and watches that allow you to telefrag but this is certainly strange

dusty pivot
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if you were to ask me id say these should be split, however for this i would make it so the telefrag only works at 50% or more cloak/health

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otherwise you get telefragged

candid karma
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fascinating idea ngl

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I think personally I would keep the telefragging capability in check by making it so Spy takes potentially-lethal recoil damage from the telefrag

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say, around 100 dmg?

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that way you can't just go invis and then beeline across the map to a pick target, like an invisible guided missile, blow him up with a cheapshot-kill from nowhere, and still get away scot-free to do it again on someone else now with considerably less risk

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imagine being on the receiving end of this thing o~o

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you're just minding your own business when you get spontaneously exploded by a spy telefrag that nobody but the team's resident pyro could have feasibly intercepted (they phase through everybody which means they can't be bodyblocked)

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Not gonna upvote or downvote this for now, but I think a weapon who's got the potential to have extremely volatile results (metaphorically speaking) should be thought through very carefully

dusty pivot
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i think it should be split because both are fine ideas on their own

candid karma
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A high-risk/reward weapon like this (imo) should have its potential repurcussions thought through very thoroughly — like, even moreso than any other kind of weapon proposal — so that holes in the original idea which blow it wide open can get caught and addressed while it's still only in the drafting/theory stage

it's very easy for a weapon that's made to be extreme by design to accidentally fall off the metaphorical tightrope of balance

dusty pivot
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agreed

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what i did with this idea is made cloak drain significantly faster while phasing through someone and made the telefrag work only work above 50% cloak (below telefrags you)

woven bone
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it's both a one-hit

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though maaayyyybe he shouldn't be able to do both

dusty pivot
dusty pivot
woven bone
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i think in some old tf mod for doom the spy could uncloak by shooting, this kind of reminds me of that

dusty pivot
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quaketf?

woven bone
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for doom

dusty pivot
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neat

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as for the bloodwatch idea, i would give it a speedboost but the lescampette already exists

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still the idea of gaining a benefit and infinite cloak at the cost of your direct survivability is good

thorn shale
dusty pivot
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also again you neither need to allow time/space to decloak and don't need to get into position beyond within an enemy

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feasibly ubercharge needs to make you immortal to near all direct ways players can kill you

cyan abyss
candid karma
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I mean yea, you did say that

cyan abyss
candid karma
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but I think the can pass through enemies stat (which is needed for telefragging to work) might have the unintended side effect of making spy waaay harder for enemies to detect, since you won't get stopped when you bump into him

cyan abyss
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and people paranoia

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every class can spy check without consequence but if you get hit, oh boy

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while with a normal class getting hit by a single bullet isnt that much of an issue

candid karma
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this watch's existence might basically force the team's pyro to get peer-pressured into doing nothing but spychecking all game, since a Thorny Watch spy would be so difficult to detect without someone actively dedicating their entire game just to hunting for him
is the sort of train of thought I'm tryna get at

cyan abyss
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Here it becomes an issue if you do get hit while invs

dusty pivot
cyan abyss
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I think the only way to figure out how broken this watch may be is through beta testing it

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i remember discussions of post-nerf dead ringer still wanting a nerf

candid karma
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it would be a smoking gun to be sure...

dusty pivot
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i can safely say you gotta have some limiting factor on it or spy in general is ironically going to get worse to play while worse to play against

cyan abyss
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spy is essentially a glass canon

candid karma
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but yeah, thinking on it more this item's combination of stats is defs raising some serious red flags for me

cyan abyss
candid karma
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The telefrag watch's mere presence on the roster (even if it doesn't end up getting used) might result in a drastic warping of tf2c's gameplay
similar to how the dead ringer, merely by existing, turns any spy you think you killed into a potential recurring problem, which means every single spy basically has to be spychecked twice

dusty pivot
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i think id ditch one half of the concept and focus on the other

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again a phasing watch or a blood-powered watch are both fine ideas but together seems, a bit hard to balance

cyan abyss
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so giving the watch the escape plan threatment?

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by splitting it in half

trim vault
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i like the verve of this one

candid karma
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the... verve?

trim vault
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the verve.

dusty pivot
cyan abyss
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I'd like to still how well this watch performs before splitting it but im interested in what aspects would be split

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@dusty pivot tell your idea of how the split would be

muted loom
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Just uh

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Just so you know

dusty pivot
muted loom
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Anyways, I don't much like the idea of disguises or cloak letting you go through enemies

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Kinda just feels easy

dusty pivot
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eh, id be fine with it

candid karma
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aye, that stat is by far the most influential imo
even if it's probably only intended to be a supporting stat just for enabling telefrags o~o (correct me if i'm wrong)

muted loom
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Movement is a big part of spy that's kind of underrated, I think removing that aspect hurts spy as a class

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As for this weapon specifically, eh? Sounds like it'd make spy more frustrating to play while also making him more frustrating to fight, since you die in one hit (resulting in a lot of bogus deaths), and enemies now have to shoot everyone in order to properly spycheck (frustrating and tedious)

candid karma
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spy singlehandedly winning games by slowing down the enemy team due to excessive spychecking (our only spy switched off 15 minutes ago) civilian_megabastard