Skeleton Knife

[barren marten]

...why?

[still flame]

This is

[vocal gyro]

The big earner is a fun knife, here is an alternative.

[still flame]

I'm like actually at a loss for words

This is a terrible idea

[vocal gyro]

Explain.

[barren marten]

this is just an overcomplicated and worse big earner

[vocal gyro]

What is so complicated about it?

Its a charge knife, then you spend it to get a mobility boost.

[jagged yacht]

Big earner except you struggle to chase down an engi

[barren marten]

-10% puts you at 97% which is A LOT

[jagged yacht]

I checked and that's just barely faster than Demo

😭

[barren marten]

yeah exactly

[vocal gyro]

Yeah, and using it in tandem with the tranq is ideal for this.

[jagged yacht]

Medic Picks? In your dreams buddy

[arctic spoke]

something tells me that every single weapon that has <temporary boost on something> with <permanent weakness on the same thing> is poorly designed

[barren marten]

weapons should not be designed to necessitate sidegrades

[vocal gyro]

It's strength and weaknesses.

[jagged yacht]

that's gonna be so much slower than just backstabbing though

[still flame]

Makes getting stabs basically impossible on anyone other than soldiers, demo's or heavies and when you do it makes spy completely cracked

[vocal gyro]

But it's not impossible to do so

[arctic spoke]

you're not going to achieve much with this unless you give the opponent a warning and an opportunity to fight back

[still flame]

You want to give the class that can instakill people +30% speed and the ability to double jump 😂

[barren marten]

i honestly would just rather importing the big earner

[barren marten]

i mean i like that element, it's just that it's also debilitating

[still flame]

Just import big earner

Way simpler and more balanced

[fiery sparrow]

Bros onto nothing

[still flame]

This just sounds like the big stinker to me

[vocal gyro]

No, it's net +15%. Not net +30%

Are you insane?

[still flame]

???

You said 30%

Oh,

I see

[barren marten]

+30% from the base speed that -10% gives you

[arctic spoke]

oh so the speed boost stacks with the slower movement speed so this is even worse

[still flame]

Well what the hells the point in that?

Again that's just a slightly worse big earner

Why would you use this knife?

[jagged yacht]

so you still can't catch up to scouts?

[barren marten]

actually significantly worse considering how important speed is on spy

[vocal gyro]

Also the big earner gives +35%

As speed

[still flame]

Aye, and with that you can use it to kill people

[vocal gyro]

Which is over twice as fast as I am proposing

[barren marten]

yeah, for health which is significantly more fun to use, partially because it doesn't make you slower than demoman

[vocal gyro]

Again just use the tranq if speed is such a problem. Its going to pair well with it

Side grades can and will interact with eachother the more of them there are.

[jagged yacht]

yeah you're probably gonna die before you finish off whoever you tranqed

[vocal gyro]

Pessimism will only get you so far, have you actually tried to play tranq spy?

[jagged yacht]

no because I don't like the tranq and shank and I won't curse others with it

[still flame]

I think this weapon needs a total rework tbh, too much like big earner

[jagged yacht]

❤️

[barren marten]

however you've designed this weapon to require it to be viable, like how you have to use the l'etranger with the YER due to the cloak drain

[vocal gyro]

The tranq doesn't make it viable, it makes it easier to use.

[still flame]

I think you could design it around your skeleton concept, the dead and allat

[vocal gyro]

Also its not like a literal skeleton, its a knife type

[barren marten]

i don't think you understand how important speed is on spy

[vocal gyro]

I clearly do, I know how to play spy.

[jagged yacht]

On kill: summon HHH

[barren marten]

my final verdict is that it's some weird althistory big earner where valve nerfed it into the ground hard

[still flame]

I mean, you just typed out a knife that's basically 'big earner but different'

[jagged yacht]

10 skeleton kings

[vocal gyro]

Yes, there will eventually be a "big earner but different" spy knife.

[arctic spoke]

forcing spy to alert the enemy and let them fight back every time or only being able to catch your main prey if they backpedal into you

for a lame speed boost and the ability to double jump into nowhere useful

[vocal gyro]

Pessimism once again

Im not willing to hear you out if you're just gonna be overtly negative without trying to see upsides.

[still flame]

They did see the upsides; and they were shite 😂

[vocal gyro]

You don't realize how easy it is to tranw and shank people, especially light classes

[barren marten]

it's upsides is that you get A Bit more speed and the doublejump which is nice but not enough to save it

[still flame]

I think it needs a rework man, too similar to the big earner

If you ask me

[vocal gyro]

And for one thing. Its not even possible to do it to a scout in the first place unless they back into you or corner themselves.

[barren marten]

for "not requiring" the tranq you seem to only want it to be used with the tranq

[shrewd arrow]

I wouldn't ever even be tempted to equip this

[barren marten]

i mean idc about that

[vocal gyro]

You can literally use the revolver just fine

Revolver is literally better than tranq

I would tweak it so that you're just as fast as an engie and remove the double jump ability, but the key idea here is a toggleable speed boost

And even when its charged, your original speed penalty is negated until the charge is activated.

[shrewd arrow]

The l'escampette does it better

[vocal gyro]

The l'escampette gives means to an end.

[barren marten]

lescampette + big earner would be so fun actually

[vocal gyro]

This can pair with the speedwatch too

[barren marten]

dude the problem is that it's downsides are far far too debilating for an upside that's hard to acquire, this is like if the YER disabled your cloak for instant disguises

[vocal gyro]

Its not hard to acquire.

[barren marten]

the cost/benefit is way off and while double jump is powerful, that doesnt save how you're 15% slower (and barely faster SOMETIMES) and have 110 health

[vocal gyro]

Read what I said about tweaking it

[barren marten]

-7% speed but then you get to be as fast as scout sometimes...

well it's at least usable but id still consider it not worth it

[vocal gyro]

This is less debilitating than the big earner and offers control in the speed boost.

[barren marten]

n, no it's a bit more debilitating

[vocal gyro]

Where the big earner makes you use it or lose it.

[barren marten]

that's the POINT of the big earner

[vocal gyro]

Its not, it has enough health to not surpass that damage threshold.

[vocal gyro]

Okay? And the point of this knife is that you are slower and more vulnerable, but can boost yourself temporarily and go for chain stabs.

What if the meter extended by 1 second per kill while the boost was active?

[barren marten]

which the big earner already does

[vocal gyro]

But the big earner isnt in tf2c

So here's a weird cousin of it.

[barren marten]

it still falls under "valve decided to nerf the big earner for no particular reason" vibe to me, i still think you'd get more mileage out of adding the big earner

[shrewd arrow]

Being slower and more vulnerable is not generally something you want to be as spy. In addition, this has the side effect of making the sniper, medic, spy, and engi disguises unusable

[vast loom]

the escampette already fills in the niche of a spy speed boost i think

[vocal gyro]

Did you read about the tweaking idea??

They're not unusable disguises

[shrewd arrow]

I see the intent, but this doesn't sound like it would offer a fun or enjoyable gamplay loop.

[vocal gyro]

Charge mechanics are fun

Speed boosts are spy are fun

Its not complicated

[barren marten]

i do like both but this is just, it doesnt sound that fun to use

big earner offers instant reward and instant death, a very fast knife both ways

now it offers slightly more vulnerability and slightly less speed

[vast loom]

the ocassional speed boost doesnt compensate for being very slow 90% of the time

[barren marten]

you cant just assemble elements together you have to consider how they'd actually play

[vocal gyro]

Don't even have an amount for how much backstabbing and crit melee it would take to fully charge it

[vocal gyro]

Big earner.

[barren marten]

i presume more than one since it isnt on backstab

[vocal gyro]

At least 2

The big earner is very strong

It cant just be a replica of it

[barren marten]

yes, but you also get one-shot by most weapons that arent chip damage

like compared to most of the knifes the big earner is very balanced

[vocal gyro]

Also, I would change this to tertiary fire, not secondary

[barren marten]

not just comparatively but that aside

[barren marten]

this does not play like the big earner

[vocal gyro]

Yes it does

[barren marten]

no, it doesnt

like

literally

[vocal gyro]

It offers a much longer speedboost

[barren marten]

you cant go for escapes off of stabs or push your luck with chainstabs, nor are you in immense risk of getting one shot that the speedboost makes up for in both ways

[vast loom]

you already have the escampette for giving spy a speed boost tho

[still flame]

Big earner but you go mildly faster for 10 seconds and can double jump and shit

[vocal gyro]

Still ignoring my tweaks

[still flame]

What tweaks

[barren marten]

edit the original message (not sarcastic just, legit advice)

[vast loom]

oh i only saw the original message my bad

[vocal gyro]

Alright, act is over. I made this thread to guage the average reaction to a purposefully bad weapon, but also I want to prove how much a bad idea of a weapon ideas channel is.

[vast loom]

oh! i see

[still flame]

Yeah guys my shit idea was an elaborate ragebait this whole time...

[arctic spoke]

the schrodinger's douchebag

[barren marten]

yknow what

[vocal gyro]

No i actually hate this channel sincerely.

[barren marten]

ill give you the benefit of the doubt that you intended that from the start

[vast loom]

i think there are plenty of other threads you could look at to see how people react to bad ideas tho

[vast loom]

why exactly

[vocal gyro]

Too much a headache.

[barren marten]

in which case, the weapon ideas channel is so it doesnt take up general chat, you can just mute it

[vocal gyro]

Bad precedent.

Anyways, im deleting these now.