#Give Heavy an LMG Or HMG, please.

165 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

final iron
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Continued: If it’s too realistic I see no reason why Heavy wouldn’t have made some modifications to it, perhaps creating something that fires the slightly larger 30-06 instead of the standard 7.62. After all, we saw Demo make the Cyclops in the Double Down trailer, I assume the mechs create, or have the means to create their equipment.

Don’t think the Heavy would use an American Gun? I got you covered. We also have Maxim-Tokarev. (I see lots of fun with that name BTW) It was designed before the M-60 (1920s), but it has the same caliber, looks similar, and is slightly heavier, then its American cousin.
The only other LMG made by the Russians was the RPK (Picture an AK-47 but slightly beefer) Or RPD (Now picture what the Tomislav SHOULD have looked like in hindsight.)

If you’re still stuck on it being a LMG then try the Pulyemyot Maksima M1910 this is the last gun I’ll mention on this message. It’s an HMG at over 52 pounds. It was made in 1910. technically it has a feed system of 250 rounds but we can use some game magic to say its 100. Also look up the way it looks I can totally see heavy carrying this metal monstrosity into battle, and compared to Sasha its way lighter 🤣, then again Sasha is nearly 4X heavier than the M134 which I believe to be what inspired her so…. 😬

And done! I hope I answered any potential questions or grievances, but something tells me I can’t account for every query or complaint.

I think I’ve fulfilled my gun geek quota for today.

final iron
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Give Heavy an LMG Or HMG, please.

dry peak
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LMG makes sense
you lose the raw firepower of minigun for more versatility and mobility

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#modding-discussion message

dawn shore
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He carries a heavy machine gun and giving heavy a primary that doesnt rev just isnt interesting or good design

final iron
# dawn shore He carries a heavy machine gun and giving heavy a primary that doesnt rev just i...

You get a kick out of being a buzz kill don’t ya?
Fine (as if the noise of a barrel revving makes it more ‘interesting or good’ magically.) we could use a completely fictional weapon design inspired of the one used by Subject Delta in Bioshock 2. it was still a rotary barrel, but was half the size of Sasha, and it could still have a slight but not near as loud spool noise.
Look I mean no offense by this, but I find your outlook on what makes Heavy, heavy to be just plain dull, and frankly quite narrow. Where is your sense of adventure? Where is your sense of imagination?… Oh your a Spy main, okay that makes sense now misery loves company, carry on.😅
(Please don't take this seriously)

dawn shore
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I get a kick of acknowledging when I think a bad idea is a bad idea and when a good idea is a good idea

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Giving heavy a primary that doesn’t rev and deal obscene amounts of damage is like giving sniper a primary that can’t headshot.

final iron
dawn shore
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The revving is what balances out the obscene damage

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It means heavy cant instantly obliterate any class and is vulnerable when caught off guard

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And why does playtime dictate why an opinion is good?

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I see

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You have 7 days of playtime total

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I have 30

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That number next to your name in hlx is not an id, but rather a ranking of where you are

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I'm not in the system because I intentionally disabled it because I don't like all the hlxstats notifications in-game

final iron
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I'm tired of arguing with you.

dawn shore
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You're the one who wanted to make it about experience despite that not being indictive of skill, knowledge, or validity of opinions

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Revving is crucial to heavy's balance

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Even if you nerfed the damage, it would have to be more in line with the rocket launcher or scatterguns DPS to make giving up revving balanced

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And at that point, you're just playing a slower, less mobile scout or soldier

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You'd be giving up heavy's playstyle as well as his role within the team

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As for the heavy machine gun bit, he's already carrying one.

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He's specifically using a gatling style machine gun, the type that's meant to be mounted. While his actual minigun doesnt have an irl equivalent that I can find, it's clearly not the type that's meant to be carried while you shoot it.

final iron
dry peak
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LMG balanced carefully would be a really interesting sort of subclass for Heavy

final iron
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Why can't I close the post?

dry peak
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Right click on the left side bar

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should be an option

final iron
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I did I clicked the button, it didn't do it. Is it a mobile phone thing? Do I need to close it on my PC?

dry peak
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I dont know, i dont use mobile discord

final iron
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Well this is slightly embarrassing. 🤣

dawn shore
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Lmao

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Anyways, time spent very much does not equal knowledge or skill, and the "command" I argued against was literally a bind that people could spam to make getting backstabbing impossible and which would also get you perma banned by anti-cheat on official servers

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Also, yes, revving is required because Heavy has high DPS. High DPS is the main appeal of playing heavy. Why would you want to play heavy without a high DPS?

final iron
dawn shore
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Yes, VF4 is not the only server, but they are the official servers. Any server with anti-cheat (most of them) will react in the same way and issue you a perma ban for cheating if it detects frequent use of that bind

final iron
dawn shore
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I did read your post though?

final iron
dawn shore
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Also, why would you want a "wind up" without a rev sound?

final iron
dawn shore
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Heavy's role is being the slow, sturdy backbone of the team through his high damage and constant rate of fire. I fail to see how removing those in favor of this would be beneficial

dry peak
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heavy is slow with or without revving

dawn shore
final iron
dawn shore
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Oh, you're talking about an entirely different bind than the one I am

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Yeah that ones whatever, but I don't think it matters

final iron
dawn shore
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The one that makes it impossible for spies to backstab you

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Which is why I said multiple times that it makes it impossible for spies to backstab you

final iron
dawn shore
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My guy, you just said it was a command, you didn't specify anything, and the only command I could remember was that one

final iron
dawn shore
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At any rate, what's the point of a heavy primary that makes heavy weaker both in terms of DPS and tankiness?

dawn shore
final iron
dawn shore
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Genuinely didn't remember the bind to tell you where all your teammates are thing

final iron
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To give more options and opportunities, and change up play style.

dawn shore
dawn shore
final iron
dawn shore
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Classes have roles that they are defined by and while they fill. That's why it's a class based shooter. It would defeat the point of a class to give them something that would better suit another class.

final iron
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I'm done for tonight. I need to get ready for bed.

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Class would still be the same.

dawn shore
dawn shore
# final iron Class would still be the same.

I mean, you're gutting the two things people love heavy for, which is how tanky he is and how much damage he doesn. Why would people want to use a weapon that makes you less tanky and does less damage?

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Sure technically it doesn't slow you down when wind it up/rev it, but that's less of an upside and just more of a reason to not use it. This weapon, while intended to make heavy more free and mobile, fails to do so in any significant way, instead only weakening his two core traits without actually making him much more mobile.

orchid dagger
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the hell happened here

hearty elm
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So tomislav?

dry peak
# hearty elm So tomislav?

tomislav but needs to reload, one shot at a time instead of four, and no windup, or slowdown while firing

final iron
dry peak
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theres several weapons like this already in custom weapons servers

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though some tend to have stupid stats

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this one for example is unbalanced

final iron
final iron
dry peak
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hunting revolver sacrifices raw damage for quicker results

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no charge, and it does less damage on headshot anyway

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but it lets you fire more shots at a time

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so the equivalent would be a weapon that removes the need to windup for heavy

final iron
dry peak
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more of a roaming heavy player

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kinda like fat scouting

final iron
dawn shore
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Hunting revolver emphasizes snipers focus on accuracy and headshots

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This doesn't emphasize anything about heavy

dry peak
final iron
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And what about Huntsman?

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Even more aggression with less need for accuracy

dawn shore
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Literally a whataboutism

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Also, the huntsman is meant to focus on accuracy

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The only issue is its poor implementation

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It's meant to turn sniper into a much more aim focused glass cannon imo

dry peak
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Ah so two separate weapons that change sniper's role from being essentially a long range area-denial/pick to a mid-close range asshole
but heavy cant have anything that deviates too far from his slow anchor play style

dawn shore
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Didn't say I liked either, just that I think they both pretty clearly try to emphasize an aspect of sniper while also changing up his gameplay.

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As a concept, emphasizing something about a class is a good way to make a solid weapon. Look at the scot res, flare gun, and anchor.

dry peak
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heavy's aspect is that he has a lot of health to soak up damage and attention while laying out a lot of damage up close

final iron
dry peak
dawn shore
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or him having a lot of health and doing a lot of damage is a consequence of him being intended to be the teams anchor

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Or both ideas were had at the same time

dry peak
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valve designed heavy starting from the idea of a big guy with a big gun
they didnt start with the "tank role" like in a hero shooter and design him around that

dawn shore
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Either way, I don't think this weapon would significantly change heavy's gameplay in any interesting way that would appeal to people who don't play heavy, and I don't think it's good enough to appeal to players who do like to play heavy

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Where heavy came from is ultimately irrelevant with where he is. Why would I want to play heavy but with less survivability and less damage?

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Is reducing heavy's hp and dps really going to make more people want to play heavy?

broken plank
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Giving a Light machine gun on HEAVY weapons guy… do you see the Error?

dry peak
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well i dont agree with the health reduction

dawn shore
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Especially when the benefit is something as meager as revving not slowing you down?

dry peak
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i dont like health being messed with on any class

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im still an avid hater of the plus 25 health of HR

dawn shore
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This concept doesn't know what it's trying to be

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All it knows is that it doesn't like heavy

final iron
dawn shore
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It feels like someone looked at a cool gun irl and thought "man what if I made that as a tf2 weapon"

final iron
dawn shore
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I mean

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It's literally inspired by a rambo weapon

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Also, Sasha is a minigun because she's literally a miniature gatling gun

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Not because she's small

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Which... i guess she is, for a gatling gun

final iron
dawn shore
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It misunderstands why it's called a minigun

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It doesn't actually justify giving heavy an LMG

final iron
dawn shore
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All that being said, you seem too focused on making it an LMG over making it a viable weapon

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What are you trying to do with this other than giving heavy an LMG?

final iron
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Tomislav but not boring

dawn shore
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I can see that, but you're too tied to this lmg identity

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It's caused a lot of confusion

final iron
dawn shore
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On that note, how about a burst fire minigun?

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Something that goes BWAM BWAM BWAM tick tick tick BWAM BWAM BWAM tick tick tick

final iron
dawn shore
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Ideal range being maybe half that of the AAC

final iron
dawn shore
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No health or damage penalites ofc, but functionally it would be like a shotgun-minigun hybrid

final iron
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I primarily just want a fun fresh way to play with heavy. Being slow all the time can get kinda boring which is why I often swap to Soldier because at least he can rocket jump, or back to Medic because I don't feel like my legs are broken.
That or convince Civilan to give me haste up.

dawn shore
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I get what you mean, but also that's what pyro is here to some degree. Obviously with lower dps and health, but he can absolutely melt enemies and has the speed and mobility heavy doesn't.

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As someone coming from Live, might be worth giving shotgun pyro a try and just treating him like a heavy with short range

final iron
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I still think the LMG is more then just a “gimmick” or a what everelse. But I primarily just want heavy to have something that changes him up, and makes him more exciting to play, while opening up more opportunities for him to be used.

broken plank
# final iron I already addressed that please read.

There’s so much in there tech, I don’t think I can wrap my head, like I saw something about the cyclops.

The long short of it is just, Heavy’s MAIN WEAKNESS is that his primaries slow him down a ton.

final iron
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Yes I acknowledge that it is indeed a mess. I wanted to cover as many bases as possible.

final iron
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Demos weakness was that he stinks at direct combat but here comes the Cyclops to make fighting scouts more feasible.

final iron
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And no, because I already see it from a mile away. This in not a whataboutism. This is highlighting a double standard.

broken plank
# final iron And snipers main weakness was that he is garbage at close range, strong in long/...

Sniper gets Ganged easily, if you run at him with more than 2 players, he’s gonna crumble. But sniper is still Sniper as he is mainly a Marksman.

But with Heavy, he’s about the heavy weapons, the ones he can lift on his own where others would barely be able to carry at all. So a “Light” Machine gun, doesn’t Sound very heavy for Heavy. (Not to mention it sounds more like a rifle if it’s only a single bullet at a time rather than a wild spread of multiple and I don’t like Tf2 having (Assault) rifle types.)

indigo meadow
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Look guys the solution is simple. Make the machine gun a secondary weapon. That way he still has his core weapon.

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No reason heavy can't have 2 miniguns.

vagrant spade
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Truth nuke ^

dry peak
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the idea of a machine gun for heavy, primary or secondary, is perfectly solid
we just need to prototype it, beyond the unbalanced ones on custom weapons servers

broken plank
orchid dagger
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the question is what niche would it fill or add to heavy

vagrant spade