In the Double Down update, the Jump Pad saw two notable nerfs: its build cost increased from 70 to 100 metal, and its build time was extended from 5 to 8 seconds. When I first played with these nerfs I really disliked them, so I made a post asking that the nerfs be reverted which was subsequently removed for being too recent to the update (I then recently tried to make another post, which also got removed because they didn't accept balance changes anymore which is another whole argument) With it being nearly 5 months since the nerfs were first added I can confidently say that it is even worse than I thought it was when I first tried it.
In that original post I said that the jump pads were designed to be expendable and more aggressive than the teleporter which allowed for a pseudo-battle engie playstyle in tf2c, the nerfs really handicapped this playstyle which me and many others really really enjoyed. Where previously one could afford to place a Jump Pad alongside a sentry or dispenser, the current cost restricts options to just two Jump Pads or a Jump Pad with a dispenser—unless you find more metal mid-combat, which isn't always practical. The expendable nature of the jump pad was also neutered with the build time being increased as well, which adds nothing to the game besides making the jump pad less fun to use as you aren't able to go for those risky placements that allow for a cheeky push down a flank which wouldn't typically allow it. It’s also worth noting that even prior to these changes, the Jump Pad was much more situational when compared to the teleporter and was arguably less effective in 70-80% of scenarios. These nerfs have pushed it even further into a niche territory, making it a suboptimal choice in most contexts.
All I am asking for is it to be reverted exactly back to how it used to be, 70 metal and 5 second build time.
#FINALLY I GET TO TALK ABOUT THE JUMP PAD
proper bison
urban haven
I thought those nerfs happened 'cuz of how laughably unremovable the jump pad became when you used it on defense?
proper bison
I dont see how increasing metal cost or deploy speed changes that tho
If anything it makes it much more good at defense as its expendable, offensive nature got neutered
urban haven
iirc, the logic was something like
- jump pad on defense provides powerful mobility
- placing them in a heavily-defended area makes them very difficult to destroy
- jump pads take very little effort to replace once destroyed
- result: jump pads are up all the time for red, which gives them too large of a defensive edge
- conclusion: jump pads need to be nerfed, somehow
- solution: increase the overall downtime for the engi when his jump pad gets destroyed
but I'm not really qualified to talk, since I have such little practical experience in tf2c o~o
proper bison
The thing is, The nerfs didnt really change it too much
If the engie is playing defensively they are going to be able to get a jumppad up very easily despite the nerfs
so it really only handicaps offensive engineers
which makes it even HARDER for blue engies to do stuff
round nacelle
i feel like the nerfs were pretty solid tbh, destroying jump pads feels like a genuinely impactful thing now since the engi has to sacrifice more to replace it
they have to make a choice on if they should replace it or do something else with that metal, since 100 metal is alot to spend on something that could easily get destroyed again
it did fuck over offensive engineering which sucks major, but overall it did make jump pads picks far more impactful then before
proper bison
I get the idea behind nerfing it defensively
but it really fucked offensive usage of it
round nacelle
i agree, but at the end of the day engi is a defensive class. Ultimately he should be balanced around that even if its at the detriment of offensive plays
sturdy sun
What if it started to lose a bit of durability if its used too much, like after around 10 jumps in like 6 secs (idk can be longer or shorter) it loses a tad bit of health.
fast raven
I love the 2 second wait you have between the animation finishes and when the jumppad is actually usable
That, is, effin, awful
sturdy sun
I love the 2 second wait you have between the animation finishes and when the ju...
Uhhhhhhhh…
Jeee
It is
fast raven
I think they should revert the build speed change
fast raven
Yeah I think it's fine, the build speed was too much
sturdy sun
What if it started to lose a bit of durability if its used too much, like after ...
What about this one?
Thought for like a minute on that
fast raven
Eh.. buildings taking natural damage just doesn't sound very intuitive
Like "why is my building taking damage from nothing???"
sturdy sun
I can see that, wanted to mainly think about
"What can be hindering defence while not also hindering offence"
fast raven
Well I think the 90 HP could be lowered a little.
Other than that I think 100 metal is fine
sturdy sun
Well I think the 90 HP could be lowered a little.
75?
urban haven
from my time in the Fight-or-Flight beta playtest, iirc we settled on 90 being the step the jump pad would get nerfed down to in case it became overbearing, cuz that's the breakpoint for jump pads being OHKO'd by rockets
(been a couple years so I might just be wrong o~o)
mystic scarab
I'd say keep the build speed at its current level but drop the metal cost back down to 70
though it would be kind of funny to instead make Jump Pads upgradable in some fashion or another to better justify it being in the same cost range as the Teleporter
plucky kindle
After playing with newer pads for whole, I feel like the 70 metal should be reverted but the build time stay the same. I did think the jumpads were very strong and needed a debuff, but this comes off as a bit of an over correction
Its still 'good enough' and isn't aggregiously horrible, but the small health pool mixed with the high cost in time and money make it really difficult to use in more offensive positions. I'd even go as far to say it encourages it to just be placed at spawn, simply because maintaining them becomes too hard to manage
delicate pond
Jump pads are incredibly powerful and shouldnt be treated like they’re disposable. This balance change in 2.2!aligned with that
The issue with them on release was honestly just that you couldnt keep them down
Their downtime was ~2 seconds between destroying it and another one going up, they allowed red to access verticality locked areas where blue is meant to be safe and push from, and they were often hidden outside of the line of fire, which made them incredibly difficult to get to and destroy since ofc the entire enemy team is right there
Currently, they have a decent cost and a longer downtime which both prevents them from being easily replaceable should you not have a full nest set up, but it also means that pushes and risky plays to destroy them can frequently be worth it thanks to the longer downtime
delicate pond
iirc, the logic was something like
* jump pad on defense provides powerful mobil...
Basically what you said but with more words
As an extreme example, playing steel on blue became a lot harder. Steel uses height a lot to give a team an advantage, like on C or A as the most obvious examples. This ofc applies to the other points too. Blue is often meant to control a hefty bit of high ground where they can nest up, regroup, and gather, with few red players being able to push past them
Jump pads mean that what would otherwise be just a temporary setback for blue becomes an irrecoverable disaster, with red pushing that momentum back from C to B, effectively requiring blue to recapture that whole area again just to have a chance at pushing C
You also saw similar dynamics with dustbowl, sawmill, freight, foundry, 2fort, gorge, powerhouse, harbor, and a slew of other maps. That dynamic still exists now, but its harder and most costly to pull off for extended periods of time, and sapping jump pads is now worthwhile and actually beneficial for your team
fast raven
The monster build time is so agonizing