#Platinum 2 Manon Looking for a Corde de Sécurité

168 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

trim yacht
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Hello! This is the first fighting game that I've ever taken seriously, and I've been on and off with it due to frustration. I've asked around a bit, but I am new to this server and was wondering if someone would be willing to let me know how to level up my Manon playstyle.

My CFN is "BannerThief" and I could provide some replay codes later if need be. Any ranked or casual match should be a good barometer, I do tend to play a fair bit of battle hub as well. Thank you!

If I had to make some points about my own play, I'd say that my neutral knowledge is pretty lackluster and I tend to flail when an opponent does something unusual or annoying, but I'm open to any criticism/suggestions. Juet want to feel like I'm meaningfully better before going back to Ranked.

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For more info, feel free to hit me up whenever on Discord, I'm on US-West Coast and have too much free time. 😄

fierce jasper
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yo @trim yacht, I used to play Manon, so I think I could help

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just hit me up in this chat if you've got time

fierce jasper
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so do you wanna play now?

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Or should I look at some replays ?

trim yacht
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Working in the office today but I could be on around 5 o'clock Pacific if that works. If not, I'm wfh tomorrow so that means I'm free all day. 🙂

fierce jasper
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wait gotta google

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No idea how timezones work dude

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how many hours is it until 5 for you?

trim yacht
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It's 2:40pm now for me for reference.

fierce jasper
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dayum

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doesn't mattter I'm on vacation

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aight I've got time at five then

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5 is 1 am for me lol

late orbit
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hey. a couple of the coaches have manon knowledge. i got a bit and ik @fallow igloo plays her

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im sure we can also help

trim yacht
# fierce jasper 5 is 1 am for me lol

I impulsively signed up for a Plat and Below tourney earlier today as well, it's at 6pm for me. If 1 am sucks then we can do something tomorrow or the weekend, it doesn't have to happen tonight!

fierce jasper
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aight I think coaches can help more anyways, well see

trim yacht
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Thank you though, would definitely love a long set sometime soon anyway.

fierce jasper
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always down to play, your manon is higher rank than mine anyways

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I know stuff about her but back when I played her I had NO neutral

fierce jasper
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@trim yacht you down for a set rn?

trim yacht
fierce jasper
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bruh you're teleporting xD

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connection is ass

trim yacht
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Oof

fierce jasper
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do you always play with that internet?

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maybe it's just bad cuz I'm in Europe

trim yacht
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My internet is pretty good, gigabit ethernet, but then again I am half a world away.

fierce jasper
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ye

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game says it was yours but I don't think so

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let's try again and if it doesn't work it isn't meant to be

fierce jasper
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nah bruh you gotta see what's happening on my screen

trim yacht
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GGs man!

fierce jasper
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ggs

trim yacht
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IDK, my internet is good shrug But yeah this connection sucks

fierce jasper
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I hit a punish counter and then the block sfx played

fierce jasper
trim yacht
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Same, I feel bad lol

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Usually things are pretty solid in this game

fierce jasper
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ye

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you've got great guessing, but I feel like you don't mix up you offense and defense very much

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jump lk grab

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and st hk

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and when you're in the corner either jump or DI

trim yacht
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Yeah that's all fair.

trim yacht
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Tried again tonight. Playing like ass with this character now. Really not sure if I need to just hang it up with her and come back later when I'm not total trash at the game lol.

late orbit
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it sounds a bit to me like you’re also unsure what character to proceed with @trim yacht

trim yacht
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I am for sure. I've tried most of the cast at this point. I come back to Manon over and over because I at least know her moves and basic combos, but I am so stuck where I am with her and unable to get any better. And playing other characters makes it obvious that I never learned how to do combos, really. I just learned her basic ones by brute force. I can't do Juri's super basic combos, can't do Ryu's, can't do... Yeah. Just frustrated tonight. Not sure where to go from here with the game in general.

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I keep wanting to try other characters but I get annoyed that I can't do basic shit and give up on them after a day or two, certain that this time I will unlock whatever it is I'm missing with Manon.

late orbit
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if you want, tomorrow we can go to training mode with input history on and we can practice inputs a bit and i can share some tips and tricks

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and you can see what I do that way too

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are you on pad? leverless? stick? keyboard?

trim yacht
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Leverless, I'm mostly very happy with it but struggle a bit with certain inputs occasionally. I was a pad user when the game came out but transitioned because my left thumb joint started feeling terrible after sessions and I didn't want to fuck up my thumb for a video game. 😸

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And that would be cool, thank you! I'm free anytime tomorrow.

late orbit
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great! I'll sleep until 11 hours from now probably haha

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I'll be on in around 16-17 hours I reckon

trim yacht
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🫂

trim yacht
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Yeah getting my fucking ass beat in this game.

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It might be Joever for now with this character and me.

fallow igloo
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I checked out a few of your replays. To me, it looked like you are stuck in the "yolo-Manon" phase that most players go through

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She has a lot of really unsafe options that have pretty bad risk-reward. They can still be used every now and then if you have a read on your opponent, but I'm talking about like 1 per match. Like 214LK can be fine, if you see that your opponent always walks back from certain distance, but you just die if you use it on block. 214MK has almost no uses in neutral (sometimes fine to kill people with chip when they are burned out). 214HK is one of the few tools that is fine to use, since its almost always safe if you space it right and can combo on counter-hit (214HK, st.lk, 236whatever).

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You also use DI a lot. And I mean A LOT. That inherently makes your games extremely swingy, since either you die or they die. DI can have its place, but I would recommend really easing off from that button. Especially when you are defending.

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You also have weird Oki. I saw you use 236KK multiple times as oki option and I don't quite understand why. Sure, you can ok reward on hit, but you die on block. And that is not something you want on your own oki. You should be doing light confirm combos, drive rush into grab/cmd.grab or drive rush into cr.mp or something that combos on hit and is safe/lets you continue pressure on block

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And lastly, the choice of buttons in neutral. I didn't see you press st.hp once. It has its faults (slow, dies to DI), but its very easily hitconfirmable and leads to your best mixups. If your opponent starts jumping/using DI, then start pressing cr.mp (or st.mp), both are good. Cr.mp combos into itself on counter-hit or punish-counter. And using either medium punch to drive rush should be a core part of your toolset on Manon. Poke with those, drive rush behind on both hit/block and try to get your offense started that way

trim yacht
# fallow igloo And lastly, the choice of buttons in neutral. I didn't see you press st.hp once....

Thank you for all this. Yeah I am definitely getting very impatient in games these days, watching my own replays from over the last week or so. DI is a habit I thought I'd broken but I took a break from the game for a few weeks a little while ago and came back with bad habits. As for the st.hp, I got warned early on (Iron/Bronze) that it was bad to rely on so I honestly never even really began to use it at all. Same for her pokes, which I'm only now even really starting to integrate. As for the wheel kick on wakeup, Idk I think I just never really understood the concept of light confirms and wanted big bomba damage. I have a lot to work on.

trim yacht
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I definitely get too aggro for this character, which is why I keep wondering if I'd be better off with someone else, but truth be told I really do want to get better with Manon. I just need to hold myself back from my worst instincts until they're not habits anymore.

late orbit
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it's not necessarily about character. every character can be played aggressively and defensively. Very often when people are overly aggressive it's about them being impatient more than anything else

trim yacht
trim yacht
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Well I got to Platinum 3. Still feel like I have so much to learn, and I'm frustrated by how little I can actually do in this game after watching some other Manon players who are at or just above my level. Not sure where to start with my own playstyle overhaul.

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Not sure anyone is even following this topic anymore. 😸

fierce jasper
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Like I said, I'd love to help, but we live too far apart

trim yacht
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I need to work on a bit of everything, I think.

trim yacht
fierce jasper
late orbit
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@trim yacht tomorrow or the day after im getting cabled connection so I should be able to play

fierce jasper
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Nice

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I also wanna have a rematch them

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then

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You were really good when we played and I think I can learn some things if we play in good connection

late orbit
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for sure my man

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I’ve learned some marisa too since then by teaching others haha

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prolly play her around plat

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so i got a range of chars now that i can play you as

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jp dhalsim cammy ryu manon marisa

trim yacht
late orbit
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jokers say he plays like he’s in MK1 and I don’t disagree lol

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it’s mostly cause in mk1 it’s normal to combo out of throws

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but also his juggles are insane

trim yacht
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I ended up uninstalling, unfortunately. Tried to play a little bit tonight and I simply cannot deal with my stagnation in a healthy way. I need to figure out what I want from this game before coming back.

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Thanks to everyone for trying to help, it means a lot!

late orbit
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Alright boss, that sounds healthy. Without clear goals, losses go towards frustration, not improvement.

trim yacht
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Took a little break, came back with a better attitude, blasted most of the way through Plat 3. I think what needs to happen for Diamond is to work on light confirms, converting st.mp into a combo more often, and a better meaty option than med.cmd which is getting me blown up too often now.

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Whiff punishing, I feel like I'm finally getting the hang of, mostly 😅

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Still need to work on ranges for heavy kick.

late orbit
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nice boss!

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Personally, keeping it simple with manon is paying off so much lol. I'm blasting diamonds just holding a simple gameplan of going for whiff punishes and DR into cmd grab on block

trim yacht
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For sure, I think I can do it with a bit more practice, then I will try and mess around with JP more.

trim yacht
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Yeah it turns out I need a lot of fucking help lol. Feel completely lost now.
Cannot deal with how badly I'm still playing in this game.

late orbit
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if you want in about an hour I have some time for sets/review and talks

trim yacht
late orbit
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no problemo boss

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I'm cookin rn, I'll @ you when im ready

late orbit
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@trim yacht u here in 15?

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what do u wanna do? sets or i look over replays or what do u need?

trim yacht
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Sure, how about a set?

late orbit
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sure

trim yacht
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I'm down whenever, just vibing in VC right now with peeps

late orbit
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im watching UFA so ill be on after i see Valmaster win XD

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okay

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2-0 rn so wont be long

late orbit
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ok boss gimme 2 mins to finish this roll and im yours

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you said you play manon right

trim yacht
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Yeppers

late orbit
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il be in 1on1 coaching

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@trim yacht

late orbit
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@trim yacht send u a dm

trim yacht
# late orbit <@456226577798135808> send u a dm

Thank you so much for the sets yesterday and your notes, I feel like I actually have set things to work on now. Before, my mindset was stuck on "just play better" in a vague way that obviously wasn't getting results anymore.

late orbit
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practice without a goal is hardly useful my friend

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im glad you got something to work towards now

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you saw the text in coaching right? i was worried it would get burried under the new texts

trim yacht
atomic spruce
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Can someone help me train with manon

late orbit
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@trim yacht i read your comment. my new laptop is coming this weekend and i should have it all set up until next week. I can then stream some games while we VC and explain to you what I'm thinking along the way, maybe that helps

late orbit
trim yacht
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Very slow going on improving anything right ow.

atomic spruce
# late orbit anything specific you need?

Didn’t see this sorry, I need help linking her moves together. I notice her moves don’t link like other characters and that I can’t turn a medium kick into a rond point or degage

trim yacht
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Got to Plat 5. Feels like I'm close to Diamond, which was my "No shot I will ever get here" goal just a few months ago.

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Not sure what changed. Just feels like I'm playing less dumb? Is thst enough?

vague depot
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Yeah. Some people send their invul reversals too often and make consistently poor decisions under pressure. Playing less dumb doesnt win you the game, it makes it so you lose less interactions which translates to more chances to win the game.

late orbit
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yeah it s enough for now haha, I'm glad you're feeling better about your play

trim yacht
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Mmm never mind lmao, had an awful set of games tonight and feel like all my mental progress has been lost. I wish I knew how to not feel so mad at myself for playing poorly. Or better, to stop playing poorly.

fallow igloo
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Don't look at progress daily, thats not how progress happens

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Everyone has good and bad days

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You should look back a week or a month. Think about what things you have been practicing and are you actually hitting those things now compared to earlier

trim yacht
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Yeah that is all fair. It was a bad day and I just needed to let cooler heads prevail. Ended up getting 550 LP that day, taking another break, then going back yesterday...

Screenshot_69.png
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@late orbit Wanted to thank you for the advice a while ago, it took me a long while to implement and I had to struggle through unlearning a lot of bad habits but it's been shocking to see how much better I've gotten in the last couple weeks. Now to learn JP sometime. 😅

late orbit
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very good man! im glad to hear

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you can t unlearn stuff overnight, good to understand that growth takes time

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if you go to the gym and look in the mirror every day you won t see progress

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just as tursmo said

maiden flower
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@late orbitat some point I will have need of your services too, thinking of dropping Marisa for Manon, idk just in the mood
placements with her netted me Gold1, but I am generally pretty bad with her if people put lots of preassure on me/dont respect me which makes strike/throw conditioning hard

late orbit
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sure

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let me know when

sturdy nimbus
maiden flower
sturdy nimbus
# maiden flower interesting, would you mind elaborating on those two things?

for footsies, manon doesnt have a good drive rush, so she cant start her offense in this manner. What manon is good at, is footsies. this is based on her normals. She has the most disjointed set up of buttons possibly in the game. Disjointed meaning the hitbox goes farther than you can see. her st.mp is disjointed and moves her forward. her st.mk is heavily disjointed and moves her forward. and her st.hp and st.hk are excellent pokes with st.hk giving you a decent reward on punish counter. So they designed her strength on whiff punishing and hit confirming to start your offense. in terms of playing slow, manon is the worst character in the game defensively wise on round 1, since she has no super. So you do NOT want to get hit round 1. Winning round 1 increases your win rate for the game substantially, so winning this round is game winning. Also by round 2 or 3, you might have 3 to 5 medals, making you able to end a round in 3 guesses. So, i do not recommend going for command grabs round 1 in lower ranks, i recommend always going for strike, as people will be pressing anyway. so just do a normal cr.lp, cr.lp, into qcf.hk until you get them into the corner. I also recommend slowing it down and spacing things out well while they are in the corner, as they might just try to jump out, and you can anti air, or they will do a gimmick which you can punish, such as drive rush, or they will press and you can just whiff punish.

maiden flower
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like what do I do in the corner, what do I do when I win round 1? also keeping in mind I am gonna face gold opponents with her

sturdy nimbus
# maiden flower like what do I do in the corner, what do I do when I win round 1? also keeping i...

in the corner, people prob gonna keep pressing, so you gotta get good at wakeup super guessing. when get someone in the corner, its mostly looking for hit confirms by using the corner as your advantage, and setting up oki with hit confirms into qcb. mk her corner offense is not complex but it kinda is to type out, so you might want to watch other manon players to see. after winning round 1, you can play slightly more risky, because you can now wakeup super, but mostly the same. I still dont recommend grabbing alot, in 50-50s unless you are confident you conditioned your opponent when only going for strike. also i recommend you to learn all of manons gimmicks to know how to break the rules, because as a grappler, you have to learn how to land cheeky grabs

trim yacht
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Yeah I feel like I've completely stalled with this character.

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I feel bad reigniting this thread but I really don't know where else to turn to with specific questions, and I don't think my problems are now specifically just on me, I think there are aspects of this character that feel underbaked. Like, how am I supposed to fight against characters like Guile?

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Anyway, might be time to call it on the game for a long while. I reached my goal, I guess. Feels like a pretty hollow victory tbh. I know I have a long way to go and it's feeling more and more insurmountable for me, at least with where I am right now.

sturdy nimbus
maiden flower
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@sturdy nimbuscan you paint me a bit of a picture on footsies in general and with manon specifically?

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I am new to these concepts

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you gave examples of moves to use but I still cant quite picture what footsies look like

sturdy nimbus
# maiden flower <@279072544995147779>can you paint me a bit of a picture on footsies in general ...

footsies with her is poking and whiff punishing, her main pokes are st.hk, qcb. hk. both Drive impactable and risky, but easy to land. your main goal in neutral is to throw out these 2 buttons but not get punished for them. what this does is it gives you free damage, and conditions the opponent to look for these to DI. so that way you can walk them either into the corner, or your desired range. Manon is best when she is whiff punishing you with st.mp or st.mk. and she has spacing traps to setup these buttons. for example, if you space st.hk right, if blocked, certain normals auto whiff and you press st.mp after and get a punish counter. People i recommend you watch for this is idom, and luffy. manon has very disjointed buttons, so pressing when someone walks into your range is almost guaranteed a hit confirm with st.mp and st.mk, and if it is blocked, you can still drive rush in for a command grab mixup. that is kinda how its played generally.

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What i like to do is do see how the opponent likes to play, if they try to go for immediate offense, i focus only on whiff punishing and hit confirms. If they play neutral, then i run with st.hk and qcb. hk

trim yacht
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Well, I'm back. Still having some bad days, including today, but I'm not gonna lose D1 so that's nice.

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I feel like my offense has become very stagnant and predictable now, and it's getting me read like a book.

trim yacht
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Pretty sure nobody is even checking on this anymore, I wish I could just close the topic.

late orbit
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i am boss, I was waiting to see watchu need

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or thought you were gonna be back with an update

maiden flower
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@trim yacht i am too, since I felt the muse to play her i had been reading back on it

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And will continue to check with questions