JP Discussion and Help

[fluid juniper]

gotcha

[shy vine]

Cool but not for me

[fluid juniper]

also I saw a lot of CPT jps do hk TC exghosts on block, is this anything?

[past panther]

yea fair

[past panther]

just like +26

[shy vine]

Oh yea I love doing that

[past panther]

lets you extend pressure and drain more drive

[shy vine]

It's for the drive damage

[past panther]

i do it when they re like one bar and a half, burns em out super fast

hk hp xx od ghosts, hk hp xx DI

[fluid juniper]

good to know

[past panther]

you can just loop them too if they re not parrying

[fluid juniper]

is there a DI route optimized for burnout? I need to learn some meter dmg combos

[past panther]

oh btw @shy vine that DI bait leads to 2 or more drive damage on block

so it s good at that too

[shy vine]

Yeah but the concern I would have in that situation would be parry I think

[past panther]

hmm, not sure, but if you have time you can do H portal 5hp xx DI, PDR 5HP xx DI

But it has to be a huge whiff for that to happen

which is not realistic

just 5hp xx DI

should be the thing i guess

or going into sa2 best

[fluid juniper]

I know SA2 has some great burnout routes, I haven't gotten to that section of the doc yet tho

[past panther]

tried labbing something like

5hp xx od portals, stmk DRC crhp xx DI, but it almost burns me out for no real improvement

to drive damage

or any followup

so that s useless

[fluid juniper]

Whats the difference between these two combos? Just more dmg for a more difficult follow up with j.mk?

[shy vine]

2nd one looks weird but it should be near the corner only

There's also for corner push from lights activate st mk, dash cr hp xx lp portal, dash hk xx hp, jump forward mk, dr f hk xx hp spin

I haven't seen the 2nd combo you posted so I'm not sure

[fluid juniper]

"Any combo" here is the blender no?

[shy vine]

Wtf is that stun combo

[fluid juniper]

XD

It's in the doc

[grim lion]

This one I can blame someone else since it doesn't use my style :P

[shy vine]

Nah that stinks

[fluid juniper]

Okay doc review finished. Didnt see anything else. Perhaps a section on what to do when you get a stray hit and you have a portal up

[past panther]

never seen that one

[fluid juniper]

also general JP question. if my opponent is plus after od amneisa, and they decide to DI, whats the best response? Depending on the timing counter DI gets funky cause the orbs can flip them out

[past panther]

i think here we should add variation for corner. so 5HK, 5HK TC xx H Portal, 5HK, 2MP xx H Portal, 6HK xx M spin, 5HP xx Blender

[past panther]

you can amnesia again (big brain)

or just counter DI and take the damage that you get

[fluid juniper]

do you get the regular Counter DI amnesia combo?

[past panther]

i doubt it

[grim lion]

I'm pretty sure you can't re-amnesia?

[fluid juniper]

also there is nothing in the doc about regular amnesia, which I feel like is a oversight

[past panther]

yeah i just thought ab this. I will add something

only really relevant vs DI in burnout

so i ll just add that

[fluid juniper]

yeah was going to say exactly that

[grim lion]

There should be a section explaining fuzzies

[fluid juniper]

I feel like regular amensia also works as a punish to some slow moves but have not labbed it

[past panther]

@shy vine for burnout amnesia vs DI, I used to do 2MP xx H portal, manual activation 5HP xx stuff, but now I just do 5HP xx H spin, M ghost, H spike. I find that 2MP xx H portal, 6hk xx poratl activation, H spin, is a good route but it drops so much

[grim lion]

I don't understand fuzzies so I haven't written it

[past panther]

I'll write a section on fuzzies and on safejumps

[fluid juniper]

also for countering a throw with OD amneisa, the combo I always go for is:
cr.mp xx h portal, activate, h spin, m ghost, spike
How does that one compare to the listed combo?

[past panther]

okay i think i added a good description of fuzzy and safejumps

[past panther]

im pretty sure it s worse

how much damage is that?

cr.mp delay H portal, M ghost, H spike, M ghost, H spike deals about 3.6k

[fluid juniper]

cant check atm

feel like mine is somewhere around there

[past panther]

ok lemme check

your does 3430
the other one does 3740
@fluid juniper

so you re losing out on 300 dmg

[fluid juniper]

ah, gotcha. thanks for checking it out

[past panther]

np

[grim lion]

We should include easier/harder to execute options as well, don't want only tournament combos in here

Is the lower damage one noticably easier?

[fluid juniper]

It was pretty tricky to learn it ngl. but that was also day 1 for me so idk

also I havent done the other one

[grim lion]

if it's worse damage and harder, pointless to include

Every combo should have a reason to be used in there, even if the reason is I'm hungover and can't execute

[past panther]

i think hark's is a bit harder cause i keep getting accidental SA2 XD

the one we use is weird to get at first but once you understand when you should do the portal it becomes easy and it s also the same recipe as the DI/Command grab combo

[grim lion]

I need a screenshot of the heath bar maxium we can do stun, OD portal, taunt to end a game

That's very important to include in the document

"emotional damage combo"

[past panther]

which taunt?

[grim lion]

Any taunt works

But good pont, we should find out which one lasts the longest

[past panther]

"is something the matter?"
"do you need to take a rest?"
"is this fight not what you wanted"

these are the options

forward taunt is 400 frames

back taunt is 200 frames

[grim lion]

Do you need to take a rest is top tier for this one since the game can't end until the taunt does

[past panther]

normal one is 220 frames

so forward taunt

[past panther]

lmao that s funny

[grim lion]

JP has the best tech

[fluid juniper]

what even is the keybind for taunt?

[past panther]

3p+3k

[grim lion]

PPPKKK

[past panther]

okay so

DI plus OD Portals does 1600 damage

so 16%

for the emotional damage

[grim lion]

Oh it has to be stun

[past panther]

i think that s best

like

look

[grim lion]

You need time for portals to go up, taunt to start, and they can't get out

Technically if they're in burnout super close to chip you could pull it off maybe?

[past panther]

you get to teabag for a bunch of time too

im sending a recording

the TRUE JP TECH

[grim lion]

We should write it in the document super serious though

[grim lion]

"Set play round ending stun combo"
"After stun, OD portal, 6PPPKKK"

[past panther]

after stun

OD portal

teabag

taunt

[grim lion]

OD portal, 2, 5, 2, 5, 2, 5, 6PPPKKK

[past panther]

yeah XD

[grim lion]

Can you mute your mic for the recordings? It's not a huge deal but the static noise bugs me

[past panther]

yea i just sent em to show what i meant

i can t mute it XD

i can mute it if I edit it afterwards

but i just sent this one raw

[grim lion]

What are you recording with?

[past panther]

nvidia geforce thing

[grim lion]

I think you can toggle mic there

In the settings

[past panther]

i can bind a key but im lazy

[shy vine]

https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1Q4UOSSuloXMEP/0iMvvexDNms9?invite=cr-MSx1cTIsMjA0NDQ2MDAyLA

Forward taunt is ALWAYS the one I use

[shy vine]

It drops when you're not all the way in the corner

[past panther]

i was all the way in the corner

seems you gotta microwalk forward 1-2 frames

i was doing it on ryu

[shy vine]

But if you're all the way in the corner the side switch is better anyway

[past panther]

that s the only way it didn t go the otherw ay

[shy vine]

For the positioning

Yeah you delay the f hk

[past panther]

oh ok

[shy vine]

If you're all the way in the corner it's very consistent you just need the timing

The side switch also has a slight delay

B mp xx hp portal, walk forward a little f hk (2 hits) xx snap, dash forward st hp (cross under) xx stuff

Not just delay, walk forward while you delay

If you walk forward too much they get bounced backwards by the portal

[grim lion]

I just reworked the document's formatting so it's easier to navigate

If you have Outline enabled in View, the left column should show the headers

[shy vine]

Side swap on a big unsafe move could be just moved to heavy

Or to a side swap section? Which would only have DI I think

I guess also amnesias

[past panther]

nice

[past panther]

i think we gotta add the 5HK routes to the heavies thing

and maybe list the combo damage in there

i might do it if I get the time later today

[oblique forum]

This doc is soon becoming a book

I'm almost wanting to do the combo flowchart properly

[grim lion]

The headers will help me out for that

[ionic stone]

@past panther thanks for answering the question on the post level 3 oki, i trust the corner mixup is covered under the Blender section which I'll check out periodically

[past panther]

yes!

I ended up recording a video but it was a lot to stitch together cause I lost track of the order I was doing them in, and it seemed unclear without an explanation alongside it, so i dropped it

the stuff is in the document and if you don't understand something or how to execute something u can always ask here

[grim lion]

I'm thinking of doing something like this but I'm not sure how to include the reasons you'd choose each branch

[grim lion]

Heavily WIP - https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVN4gJgfc=/?share_link_id=929839553497

[past panther]

looks dope

[grim lion]

it looks horrible

I think I need to entirely restructure it based on end goal, resource investment, and reasoning instead of combo structure

[grim lion]

@past panther can you reset into the blender from juggle 5HP xx OD Ghost, Spike?

Like 5HP after that spike?

My notes list juggle 5HP xx OD Ghost, Spike, Portal is +, why wouldn't you do juggle 5HP xx OD Ghost, Spike, 5HP xx Portal?

[keen valve]

u can’t hp after spike ender after od ghost

[grim lion]

Cool cool

[past panther]

the point of that string is to get a single portal that will allow you to fully rejuggle from a throw

if you do 5hp xx portal you can't get anything from the meaty throw except sa1 sometimes

also I believe in general spike kills your juggle points. i don't think there's a single case of any normal working after a spike

other specials work

[grim lion]

Are you certain the portal spike will juggle the throw after?

I'm pretty sure it fires too early

[past panther]

wym?

[grim lion]

I don't think normal portal can ever juggle a throw

[past panther]

it can

so

it should be the case for juggle 5hp xx OD spike, portal
and for 5hp xx od ghost, spike, portal

[grim lion]

So instant throw will reest?

[past panther]

the meaty throw following those should rejuggle into 5hp

yeah it should

these routes are not super common cause OD portal is so much better if u wanna use meter but

yeah

also, it will reset but not with the same juggle points as OD portal throw will. so after normal portal juggle you can only connect 2hp and 5hp, but after OD Portal juggle you can do f.hk xx M spin, 5hp xx stuff

[grim lion]

Ahh

[keen valve]

pc meaty spikes in the corner juggle into sthp

[grim lion]

Ok I wrapped up transcribing this section

I need reasons for a lot of these routes though

Like is xx Spike xx SA3 the same damage as xx M spin xx SA3?

If so, then spin is the easier route and we can ignore the spike route

If not, then I want to specify ease of execution vs slightly more damage

[past panther]

ah dope, i never do meaty spike and don't know where you can get them really so didn't know that

how do you even get a PC Meaty spike? they sa1?

[grim lion]

For it to be both PC and meaty, it has to be projectile invincible

Or maybe a move that moves them into the hitbox?

I can't think of any other options

[past panther]

nah i think the options are sa1 or JP Amnesia

those routes are mostly used in the mirror

[grim lion]

Meaty means it hits late in the active frames right?

[past panther]

not necessarily. that's one of the definitions

a meaty is also just an attack that hits on the opponent's wakeup

but in this case the spike is a meaty that hits meaty

iirc it's +ob from these setups

[grim lion]

But how is it simultaneously meaty and punish counter?

[past panther]

there's attacks like amnesia that have no startup

only active and recovery

sa1 will just be CH, so it's just amnesia

if i'm not mistaken

@keen valve what's a meaty spike setup?

i can manually time them pretty consistently but i wouldn't rely on that close range

[grim lion]

Can't meaty spike be +8 on block at best?

A good setup for that would be awesome

[past panther]

seemingly

that means there's potential for a 5hk trade combo

I'll test it out

[keen valve]

i took note of this in the mirror when id get hit by a meaty spike upon trying to amnesia on wakeup

[keen valve]

fhk > hswipe > raw dr crhp > sthp > hportal > spike

there’s a juggle sthp > od portals meaty spike setup but i forget it

[past panther]

hmm, how come? that doesn't sound right

lemme hop on and see

maybe im just confused

[keen valve]

it might be exclusive to when the opponent is in burnout

[past panther]

burnout only changes blockstun though

[keen valve]

oh sorry i annotated wrong the spike isn’t part of the string the spike is the meaty spike the portal is the ender

[past panther]

yeah I got that

[grim lion]

Is it a setup or manually timed?

[past panther]

im just thinking that setup out of 5hp is usually only slightly plus so it sounds like the spike isn t super meaty

I'll test it out real quick and be back

doesn't seem to be meaty

but

if you just do raw DR 2hp xx H portal into spike

that is almost perfect weirdly

nvm it s not

[keen valve]

really?

[past panther]

i mean, im still getting -2 on block on both of them when they wake up

lemme see if i can come up with something

[keen valve]

https://x.com/bananaken/status/1731798125142999046?s=46

BananaKen (バナナケン) 🇵🇷 (@BananaKen) on X

JP can kill Luke for auto-piloting charged flash knuckle, since it's an amnesia punish you don't have to worry about Luke canceling into level 3 #SF6_JP

Twitter · Dec 4, 2023, 10:10 PM

wrong link

[past panther]

maybe im misunderstanding it

[keen valve]

https://x.com/bananaken/status/1741431295954067831?s=46

BananaKen (バナナケン) 🇵🇷 (@BananaKen) on X

Practicing more burnout sequences; only uses 1 drive meter and lets you set up a meaty spike that trades favorably vs jabs, otherwise you go for whatever you want basically #SF6_JP

Twitter · Dec 31, 2023, 12:09 PM

[past panther]

yeah so that will trade with a 4f

so it s good against burnout when they can t DP i guess

but it s not meaty

and the numbers check out

this leaves you +18

and spike is 22f

so it trades with 4f naturally

ofc trades in your favor since you get the knockdown

and to answer my own question

st.hk trade combos with 4fs very very well

+13 on trade

so another 5hk or a 6hk

so in theory you can do super meaty spike +8 on block into 5hk which will trade with 4fs into a big combo

lemme see if i can cook something up

[keen valve]

got it my apologies

[past panther]

i need a +32 KD i think

[past panther]

no worries bro, im just tryna satisfy my curiosity

and we re all learning from each other here

[keen valve]

damnn not meaty but vicious to set up opponents who like to mash

noted

[past panther]

well it would be meaty. the spike has to hit on the last active frame for this in theory

[keen valve]

ohh setup that i sent isn’t meaty but in that scenario a meaty spike leading to trade fhk combo is possible

[past panther]

okay so i need a +49 or above knockdown, or a +31 knockdown ideally

[past panther]

oh? lemme see

i didn t try to convert, seemed too low

[keen valve]

was a question 😅

[past panther]

you re right

it does trade combo with fhk

that s dope

[keen valve]

nice nice that still serves some sick utility

[past panther]

i notice here only 1 hit of f.hk juggles so 5hp seems like the better pickup

to go into the blender again

bro i just came up with the whackiest route

useless af but fun

[keen valve]

lemme peep

[past panther]

my internet is so bad rn it s not uploading, give it a sec

@keen valve

[keen valve]

keeping this in mind for when i need to be as disrespectful as possible when punishing stun for round win

[past panther]

real as fuck

[past panther]

ok so

after 30 mins of trying

i got spike to be +7 consistently with various framekills in the corner

but it seems impossible for it to be +8

it just whiffs

ok enough labbing for today

only found this

so this is if they challenge with a 5f only sadly

again i couldn't be asked to edit the video it s like 4am

this is if they challenge with a 4f

but obviously the big drawback of 6hk being a stupid bad decision there if they just crouch block

@shy vine let me know if you can find a good use for any of these. my mind goes to a setup that leaves me +4 after spike so we can get a b.mp trade combo. iirc that one is +9 on trade

that means that we need a +27 KD before spike

you too @keen valve you re better connected on twitter and shit lmk if you find anything of the sort

if something also sets up a portal which would make the f.hk safe on crouch too by covering it, it would be super good, but that means a knockdown of 50f from the portal + 30f for the spike, and im not sure there s any way outside of sa2 that we can set that up

also obligatory

https://x.com/BananaKen/status/1741912096881741870?s=20

BananaKen (バナナケン) 🇵🇷 (@BananaKen) on X

SF6 is a game that rewards good reactions

Twitter · Jan 1, 2024, 7:59 PM

@keen valve

this one seems weirdly better than the meaty DI bait

since you re not giving up a mix

https://x.com/BananaKen/status/1747145723890536812?s=20

BananaKen (バナナケン) 🇵🇷 (@BananaKen) on X

Did the funny Vxbao setup 😌

Twitter · Jan 16, 2024, 6:36 AM

ayo? crossup setups

https://x.com/BananaKen/status/1702922892038512908?s=20

BananaKen (バナナケン) 🇵🇷 (@BananaKen) on X

Thanks to that one guy on Twitter that uploaded JP doing a funny amnesia reset

Twitter · Sep 16, 2023, 5:50 AM

crossups

ok last one

https://x.com/BananaKen/status/1719712314763424206?s=20

BananaKen (バナナケン) 🇵🇷 (@BananaKen) on X

I showed @AutoMattock a funny setup and he said he liked it

Twitter · Nov 1, 2023, 1:45 PM

these are too good

im sending them here so I can lab them tomorrow

[keen valve]

this is kinda cool as an alternative to pc 2hk od portal high low esp if ur opponents in the corner

[keen valve]

im gonna try to find something would make this way more solid

[keen valve]

this one’s way sneakier have to install asap

lemme dump some tech too

https://x.com/makoto4210/status/1748347919865197027?s=46 might have posted in resource hub already but kakeru and acqua make really good use of sa2 from lights to set up kill scenarios using the corner carry

CGSgaming 誠 (@Makoto4210) on X

運びコンのダメージと運びがちょっとアップ。

今までのやつ2種→新しいの。

設置を弱設置にして立大P中玉→前ステから大グルが間に合う。

Twitter · Jan 19, 2024, 2:13 PM

[keen valve]

https://x.com/cuongster/status/1747627063341731894?s=46

Cuongster (@Cuongster) on X

Optimisation of the Vxbao setup Level 2. It can be OD DP. But using teleport also crossup but you can punish OD DP @BananaKen @GOOD_NEMO @acqua_db #SF6_JP

Twitter · Jan 17, 2024, 2:28 PM

https://x.com/bananaken/status/1735545367268053172?s=46 and i think this sa2 route does more than the lswipe mswipe route (and sets up safe jump fuzzy)

BananaKen (バナナケン) 🇵🇷 (@BananaKen) on X

Amnesia's a funny move for funny people

Twitter · Dec 15, 2023, 6:20 AM

mann weve all been sleeping on the throw set ups i swear there were like japanese jps with 60 likes on their posts showing those off

[keen valve]

lord bananakens offense is just perfectly structured

[grim lion]

Why is twitter the place it's always posted?

[fluid juniper]

It's crazy how kim's health just vanishes

One amnesia and she was toasted

[grim lion]

Someone added this one to the doc, how does it compare to other high/low stun options? It looks a little excessive with the double j.MK
https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1RGrfeKJ8KdKua/IPERCoDvbc2c

[past panther]

i def would not go for this

giving up better options for a mid reset

[past panther]

that's a dope route with stmp

[cobalt plume]

https://twitter.com/RYUSEI_CARL/status/1751966640223461560?t=wWlyMc3VbqDkuRLCunb4pw

FAV|りゅうせい(Ryusei) (@RYUSEI_CARL) on X

対戦相手泣いちゃうかも連携

Twitter · Jan 29, 2024, 1:52 PM

all getting a bit ridiculous now

[past panther]

the double throw whiff is good to know if you don t wanna burn out with that combo

or if you wanna do max damage with no more bar

[grim lion]

What better options?

[past panther]

just going into blender off of the normal od portal combo

a lot of people mash DP or hold parry during combos so i just don t go for these resets a lot anymore

[fluid juniper]

I havent really been paying attention to people's get-up options, and tbh I just always mash back rise myself. What should I be looking for? Like I assume that them back rising me is good cause it creates more space and I am a zoner, but does JP get crazy midscreen pressure if they dont?

[past panther]

mm, not really tbh. doesn't get any oki real oki from throws and shit if you don t backrise, and neither from spin, so I think normal rise is better vs him

it matters a lot in MUs like blanka and aki

aki to fuck up her midscreen safejump

blanka you gotta backrise cause else he gets a bunch of fake setups that he can do on you

like, this only works on normal rise:

[fluid juniper]

are there any times when I want to be normal rising though?

[past panther]

versus him? no

[fluid juniper]

I meant in general

[grim lion]

My general thought is back rise vs people who want to get in and normal rise vs people who want to keep you out

[fluid juniper]

so for JP the only char who wants to keep you out is like sim? Maybe luke

[past panther]

not even

sim wants to get in too

and if you don’t backrise vs sim he gets crazy oki

also meterless midscreen throw loops that he can also float shimmy from

[fluid juniper]

so like noone then?

also luke gets throw oki midscreen anyway so like normal rise can't be good

[past panther]

@shy vine you ever normal rise midscreen?

[grim lion]

I don't have that route noted, what is it?

[past panther]

https://vxtwitter.com/jiyunaJP/status/1752291311049490850

@grim lion this

so you see how this route deals more damage and goes into 5hp juggle

[grim lion]

Stun
OD Portal, 2HP xx M ghost, whiff throw, whiff throw, 6HK xx H ghost, 5HP xx Blender?

Is that correct?

[past panther]

looks like it

i discovered it yesterday too

yea that’s it

M+H portal

[fluid juniper]

Any reason this needs to be L spike? I find it far less consistent then M spike

[grim lion]

What context? PC 5HP xx H spin?

[fluid juniper]

yeah

[grim lion]

That's probably why

Try 2MP xx DRC 2HP xx H spin?

I'm guessing L spike is consistent in that context

But yeah I can add that it should be M spike if the H spin starts further away

[fluid juniper]

Also, it looks like M spike might be a few frames more plus. Not sure if its just me being more familiar with that input though. I was able to get m spike to be +52 and the best I could do with L spike is +49

[grim lion]

Does M spike hit with the drc?

[fluid juniper]

It always hits for me after 236H, even works if you only get 1 hit of 6hk

[grim lion]

Sweet, I'll put that in

[fluid juniper]

do you know if you can extend this in the corner like you can with the 6hk route? I havent been able to get anything yet but I am still learning it

[grim lion]

Dude I can't even input these combos, I'm just the editor :P

[fluid juniper]

F, I'll keep labbing it then

It looks like you can't. So if they are going into the corner the fhk version seems way better since you can replace the last spike with m spin and get a blender

[past panther]

H spike here

midscreen M spike leaves you +44, H spike hits late and leaves u +46 so better

[grim lion]

6HK xx H spike? Are you sure?

[past panther]

nono

sorry

meant to reply to hark's pic

spin, PDR 2MP, 5hp xx H Spike

[grim lion]

That hits?

[past panther]

it does

it hits late

L spike is never used tbh. only in sa2 combo

[grim lion]

I need to see a clip

[past panther]

I can guarantee it, I labbed it after lemon told me

[grim lion]

I'd think H spike is way too far out

[past panther]

keep in mind spike has 10 active frames

hmm, lemme think actually, am I mixin it up?

[grim lion]

I can't imagine 5HP xx H spike ever hitting

[past panther]

let me look through lemon's messages

[grim lion]

You might be saying go for M spike instead of L spike which will hit later

Hark labbed that one

And that one I believe

[past panther]

yeah no it's correct

it's H spike

+46 midscreen, +44 if they're taken to the corner since it doesn't hit late

[grim lion]

That's insane, I need to see a clip

[past panther]

i'm in bed so I can't, but tomorrow sure

it's 7:30 am here I would do better to just pull a white night ngl

[past panther]

u should be able to but it's just gonna be worse than the F.hk route for that

cause you're doing PDR 2mp 5hp xx stuff instead of PDR 6hk xx M spin, 5hp xx stuff

oh and for the PDR 6hk xx spike one midscreen, def use M spike almost always

[grim lion]

Is it when they get pushed to the corner?

[past panther]

sometimes i go for M ghost cause it's the most damaging but it drops a bunch in weird ways

so it's a small risk

[grim lion]

So H spike doesn't go nearly as far?

[past panther]

what do u mean

[grim lion]

The pdr 2mp, 5hp xx h spike

[past panther]

like which one are u reffering to

H spike works everywhere

from my testing

[grim lion]

That's insane

[past panther]

but it's +46 midscreen and +44 when they hit corner

[grim lion]

I really need to see it

I'm goinf to bed too though

[past panther]

we'll look tmrw

[fluid juniper]

Make sense, thats the one I was doing I just saw the sheet had it different.
Also shame about the PDR 2mp route not being able to extend the same way I was hoping PDR 2mp 5hp m spin 5hp worked but it doesnt.
It also looks like the 2mp route is a few frames less plus then the fhk route which would make it worse verse fast characters waking up dr if you decide to spawn a portal after

there is a lot to think about now after h spin. I remember feeling like a genius day 1 when I figured out you could get a spike after, not even ghost into spike just spike XD

[past panther]

as I said it's a bit more plus if you do H spike there. +46 means you're -4 on portal or +6 on od portal

[fluid juniper]

the fhk route leaves you +52

[grim lion]

How reliable is 2HP vs Honda headbutt?

[oblique forum]

It isn't?

[past panther]

it s not

2mp is sometimes

[grim lion]

I'm thinking it's very active so the window is wider, and headbutt has the hitbox is very inside the hurtbox

And if we can reliably stuff headbutt, then you get the forced knockdown combo

[past panther]

ohh

u mean buttslam

[grim lion]

No

2hp vs buttslam works great (except cross up)

[past panther]

yea just use 2mp

horizontal disjoint

[grim lion]

2mp 5hp xx m spike?

Or perfect parry of course

[fluid juniper]

You can check headbutt with 2mp? I will have to try that
For buttslam I always go for jump back airthrow or PP

you can also go for amnesia but the timing will be tricky

[past panther]

ye u can

blanka ball too

[grim lion]

Is 2mp just the way to check all fast horizontal attacks?

[past panther]

@grim lion you home?

[past panther]

yeah it is

or 5lp

[grim lion]

Nope, at work

[past panther]

can you watch a screen share?

[grim lion]

In a meeting I don't care about but I gotta still pay attention

[past panther]

aight

[fluid juniper]

can you 2mp DI against the ex version or do you need to just block and punish

[past panther]

i seriously doubt it, also if you got time to react and 2mp you got time to block XD

@grim lion

[grim lion]

That's crazy

And it's just flat out better than m spike?

Can you 2mp xx h spin on a forced knockdown?

[past panther]

yea it's just 2 frames more plus

[past panther]

doubt, but lemme check

vs honda no, he s left pretty far after you check it

[grim lion]

What do you do then?

[past panther]

spike

[grim lion]

M spike?

[past panther]

H spike

if he s full screen sthp is a better check

you can press it right as he starts flying

and it will hit

[grim lion]

H spike also?

[past panther]

yeah

or OD spike into H spike

or OD ghost into H spike

[ionic stone]

🔥

[grim lion]

You like the newest iteration?

It's not quite right but I'm very proud of it

It's also very incomplete

One third order section lmao

[past panther]

i shared it with 2 other people today fyi

you should include your own name there. you're the one who started it after all

[grim lion]

Which document?

The miro or the google?

[past panther]

the google

the miro is a bit too incomplete rn and im not even sure how to contribute

[grim lion]

It's basically a big decision tree

MS paint suggestions are more than welcome though

[grim lion]

The most important thing is what you have to invest and why you would choose to invest that amount, since I don't always have details on that

[past panther]

yeah i get that

lemme take a peep actually

[grim lion]

It's just the Blender currently, but having those specifics in the doc are very helpful as a whole

Like the double j.MK combo is really cool but I don't know if it's even worth learning

Does it do better damage? Is there a more optimal route that includes a reset?

No clue

We kinda need a baseline for comparing damage off of similar starters

Damage, difficulty, confirm windows, etc

[past panther]

it s not

[grim lion]

Why?

What options are better and by what metric?

[past panther]

true, we gotta set a baseline

i think we need damage numbers on all options and combos

I can handle that

[grim lion]

Same with the blender 0 bar into SA3, I don't know which route is better

You can do 5HP xx Spike xx SA3 or 5HP xx M spin xx SA3

Is one more damage? Is one better for building SA3 if you're a pixel away?

Hell you could even do ghost xx SA3

[past panther]

M ghost is always the most damage when it comes to those but it s more inconsistent

[grim lion]

And that should probably be noted

it's now noted in the miro board

but the other two are still just "these options exist"

[keen valve]

gonna be so real i saw it on twt and added it to the bag of tricks

maybe i should make a doc for niche/unpractical but cool shit

[grim lion]

Mental damage category

Like the OD portal t bag taunt setup

I need to make that category

[keen valve]

🤣 there u go

[fluid juniper]

A lot of players shimmy me cause their scared of OD amnesia, I have been checking with cr.mk but you get no reward even on counter hit. Also a lot of ppl are aware to look out for jumping foward on wakeup so stand further back where they can AA and meaty with bigger buttons that still reach/frametrap.
any thoughts? I have been considering waking up with drive rush and have seen a few good JP's use it, but I am a bit annoyed that it doesnt look like we have a good way to check shimmies meterless

[shy vine]

Ive been doing cr lk st lp but obviously doesn't work if they walk back a ton

[fluid juniper]

haha, completely overlooked that option 😅. Makes sense for if they are doing close shimmies.
I also need to be incorporating more light kicks into my block strings too. I get real predictable after j.lk cr.lp cr.lk since they can just walk back and I have no threat. doing a extra cr.lk could be useful. that or shimming right away after the first cr.lp to stuff delay tech, but idk if JP's walk speed is good enough to do that

[past panther]

I'm sweepin' unless i can crlk

HAIIIDEE ORPELEU

oops wrong chat

[grim lion]

Lord Venom did a double j.MK combo in SFL today

https://youtu.be/R20F_OwvtkA?t=4439 time stamped link

The second j.MK replaced the dash forward from the side swap OD amnesia combo

It might be super spacing specific though

[ionic stone]

I've gotten a lot of mileage out of 5HK and a little bit of sweep in some scenarios

[shy vine]

Wakeup hk goes crazy lmfao

[grim lion]

I've seen many pros wake up sweep and it works so often

[cobalt plume]

Ive been using it for a while, its really good with ex portal

[past panther]

only the PC one is

normal one is only +27 so you re punishable if you do EX portal there

[cobalt plume]

tru

[shy vine]

https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1TjgccGngHo6st/d1337UfPHB7l?invite=cr-MSxpbmUsMjAzODI3MDAzLA

had the 1st hit cancel

i remember you guys were talking about the 1st hit cancel being weird

[oblique forum]

Yeah that's the one

At least you were able to deal with it 😄

[grim lion]

First hit cancel is so weird

[shy vine]

my totally unsubstantiated guess would be that if the first active frame of 2nd hit whiffs then it lets you cancel the 1st

[fluid juniper]

https://youtu.be/XVqR3OCWUsw?si=zZd5CaVg043gSmx4&t=138
I actually do not know anything about this character

Could someone explain the risk reward of the EX ghost block pressure? It looks really solid but I want to know what it loses to, also what was he doing with the spikes at the end?

b.mp after spike should not be good right? cause +2 in burnout and it's 8f start up?

[past panther]

loses to ex dp depending on range iirc

i’ve certainly been DP-ed out of it

[past panther]

ye but if daigo knows it’s +2 he won’t challenge so b.mp is good. I think actually have no idea wtf daigo pressed there cause he got punish countered? which is very weird

[past panther]

im not sure ab this btw

[fluid juniper]

Is b.mp > spike better then a light into spike? Both should be checkable and theoretically have the same followups

if lvl 2 was an option that obviously changes things but in this situation I dont understand the choice to go for b.mp

It also does look like diago just made a mistake yeah, unless its some giga brained layer1000 counterplay I am not seeing

[shy vine]

He hit cr lp and it whiffed

Which is why punish counter

Also od ghost pressure can be punished by perfect parry

[fluid juniper]

ah, so maybe JP's cr.lp also would have whiffed so thats why he needed to b.mp? Ken could also have done st.mp to beat that there right?

[fluid juniper]

gotcha, do you need to parry the first hit or can you start parrying after you block the first one? Also explains the command grab as he would be expecting a parry

[shy vine]

First hit parry into punish counter right away

[fluid juniper]

ah

[shy vine]

It interrupts the 2nd hit

And the ghost disappears

I've also been punished on OD ghost midscreen with perfect parry dr

Obviously only good players who've labbed it are going to be punishing tho

[fluid juniper]

OD ghost midscreen is pretty weak to a lot of common approach options. I have found it unreliable and it's a bad habit of mine

a lot of chars can just DR through it

[grim lion]

That's all ghosts

[fluid juniper]

I'm having a gameplan issue with my JP. I have a pretty strong counter-poke game now and my full screen zoning is not bad, but in the mid range I am super weak to ppl playing patient and whiff-punishing me. Right now i would say a good 80% of my dmg comes from getting a punish counter st.mk into pressure with the rest being chip dmg from projectiles. Very little of my dmg or pressure comes from me starting it myself.
Right now I am working on implementing more aggressive actions like DR and just walking forward but I dont think i am suited to it at all 😅, I need to look into better mix after DR since rn I am very predictable with my only options being DR cr.mk cr.mp spin or DR grab.

Better players are now sitting out of my range where all of JP's specials are really committal and just waiting for me to poke

[grim lion]

Walk forward?

[fluid juniper]

I have a feeling thats the option but I really hate doing it XD

any suggestions for practice? Or should I just grind games until I can walk foward with confidence?

Like i get that they wont press cr.mk unless I show that I will just walk into it's range but with JP's movespeed it feels like I am just walking to my death

[grim lion]

All I can think of is the footsies handbook talking about slower characters

[fluid juniper]

link?

[grim lion]

Handbook - https://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

I don't remember which page the slow walk speed was covered

[fluid juniper]

I need to read up on the basics anyway. thanks for the link 🙂

[grim lion]

Just stepping forward a little and then blocking, and seeing what they do could be something nice to add?

If they 2MK every time you get in range you can shimmy and whiff punish it

If they walk back you can slowly corner them

If they do nothing, you can get yourself in your most comfortable range

[fluid juniper]

What are some options for when we are both blocking in cr.mk range? I have found that everytime I do the walk and block thing I end up there eventually and have no idea what to do? Obviously all specials are a huge risk, and the risk reward on my cr.mk vs theirs is so in their favor so I just turtle or eat a cr.mk while trying to back up

[grim lion]

Eventually you can just walk forward throw and you both feel like an idiot

[fluid juniper]

yeah but if they are just waiting to cr.mk is my only option send a move first?

cause even on block they are now plus in my face and on hit i am in the corner

[grim lion]

Faster moves can counterhit of course, but the reality is you're in a complex situation that has no single answer

[fluid juniper]

I'm definitely not comfortable there so I might be overly negative but it just feels so bad for jp specially because his cr.mk leads to so little unless you are in their face. I think the answer is simply walking foward more to get into a better range for me, instead of trying to beat better buttons

because if I am in cr.mp range or a range where cr.mk can combo on counter hit it's a lot better for me

[grim lion]

Our 2MK is definitely not nearly as good as other characters, but if we can land basically any combo we have full screen zoning

[fluid juniper]

true, not denying our chars strengths JP is doing just fine, i'm the one who needs to change

[grim lion]

Also if you're super tight on spacing, you can choose to not hold crouch block and that narrows your hurtbox, which could allow you to whiff punish when normally you'd be blocking it

if you're wrong you just get hit though

[past panther]

it definitely is wtf

[fluid juniper]

when it comes to actually spacing whiff punishes I am pretty decent but if they are jsut not pressing I explode

[past panther]

JP 2mk is goated

[grim lion]

Very good

but like Ken's 2MK?

[past panther]

ken 2mk is only that good cause it's attached to Ken. less people mention juri 2mk even though it's a better button

[fluid juniper]

@past panther my neutral sucks and I need some help. Basically my issue is that I only counter poke and dont walk foward enough. we have diagnosed that my main issue with walking foward and blocking is that at the range where we are both blocking at cr.mk range I have no idea what to do and get smoked for it. Thoughts?

I want to walk away but ppl can just press and even if I block they are plus in my face

[grim lion]

it does cost 3 bars to be plus

[fluid juniper]

I have been fine just taking the throw in exchange for like 2 bars of drive, but letting people start their pressure for free is not a great outcome for me I think

[past panther]

you using DR 2MK and DR 4MP?

both are hard ish to check

[fluid juniper]

right now I have been trying to use more DR cr.mk , but without normal walk forward I feel really predictable with it since i will only use it at that range. also on block I have no mix

I have seen a lot of b.mp but I honeslty dont use it at all except when I am extending lights

also, besides mental dmg and last hit what good does poking with st.mp do? Is it just to make the game feel more scrambly to get the opponent to commit to something risky?

[grim lion]

long range so it can just stuff things

but they can't stop you

(mostly)

It has a huge disjoint and it's his longest range normal, except maybe the forward step 3HP

Looking at it through the lens of the footsies handbook, it's basically a good tool to beat other footsies tools. If they're constantly going for max range pokes or trying to catch you whiffing other tools, this one kicks ass

Most people don't try to play footsies vs JP though

Why do JPs do PDR 2MP?

Is it the disjoint to catch a jab check?

[lime gazelle]

Any tips for the Rashid matchup? Went 0-12 against a Rashid player that just kept mixing me up, getting me to the corner and mixing me up more.

[past panther]

uhh, don t amnesia ever unless you have a read on throw

anti air properly

jump back when he does enhanced mixer. drive reversal if he does it as a block string to deny the mix

punish eagle spike accordingly

generally don t be too bent on keeping out and don t commit too much cause his DR f.hk reaches fullscreen super super fast

but is relatively easy to check

[oblique forum]

you can almost always punish the fireball with spike, and j.MK is pretty good to get him in the air double jumping.
If you have lvl 3 when they use lvl 2, do 2x qcf and hold kick during his lvl 2 animation and you will punish him for it

[lime gazelle]

I wasn't sure what the best way to shut down the air double jump, I went with cr.HP and that got me some success but at some point he started doing the double jump into a cross up and I'd just whiff and get deleted for it. Guess air to air might be more consistent (I tried it but i struggled with the timing, might have to lab it)

[oblique forum]

yeah, and depending on the height you can go for an air throw, but I usually preferred the juggle, because in some jMK you can do the stHP xx spike juggle

[grim lion]

Any tips for clean spike into SA3, I feel so uncomfortable doing it

[grim lion]

I think it would be more efficient to just AFK in dhalsim matches

safe some time

same outcome

[past panther]

not really

dd+p df f d df f K

[grim lion]

I generally do dd+p, qcf, qcf, k

Blending the downs might make it feel slightly better

[oblique forum]

I also do the qcfx2

This is one of the few things i haven't had a problem with

[cobalt plume]

what controller?

[grim lion]

Kitsune

[cobalt plume]

just tap down forward twice quicky

[grim lion]

You're going to need to be more precise

Do you mean 22P 33K?

[grim lion]

Honestly I think in trying to input it too fast

[past panther]

yeah it's pretty lenient cancel

[grim lion]

Unrelated, when do we use OD spin? I saw a guy using it repeatedly in the mirror but it didn't seem worth it

[cobalt plume]

you dont

[grim lion]

Never ever?

There's not an edge case that it'll get slightly more damage to kill?

[oblique forum]

No

Most useless move

I only use it when I fat finger and press two buttons by accident

[cobalt plume]

yeah

Ive never seen a JP player using it except the other day in Plat 2 when I was playing as Ryu

[shy vine]

In the corner, b mp target combo combos into od spin

Which gives you a st hp pickup

And also any heavy obv

So if you have 2 bars and get a light punish with the opponent in the corner

I could see going into b mp tc xx od spin, st hp xx spike, od portal for the mix for game

Instead of settling for a safe jump or burning yourself out on drc

I know what you're thinking, couldn't I just do mp spin and then od portal? And of course yes but it's a bit less plus

So none of your mediums would beat a jab

Notably though an immediate teleport would still avoid 4f

But yeah that's the single use case I'd consider it in

Oh also it might do more damage on some level 1 conversions

But idk about that

You can also in the same situation do od spin into hp xx portal to get a portal corner setup without burning yourself out for the full 3 bars

[cobalt plume]

getting tilted

lose to some such shit players

[cobalt plume]

@past panther you're in Germany right?

[past panther]

im romanian but live in italy

[cobalt plume]

Ah ok

Was gonna ask if you're gonna go to that event in Frankfurt next month

[past panther]

ah no

[shy vine]

https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1TWqzNXsKRU_vg/d1337jyIariq?invite=cr-MSxBSkwsMjAzODI3MDAzLA

do you get a pickup on this with a higher f HK?

[cobalt plume]

https://twitter.com/rarirario222/status/1755898954171215900 this is boss

ラリラリオ (@rarirario222) on X

どうもJP運送です！画面端をご所望ですか？
※SA2後は中ストリボーグ、ヴィーハト、弱ストリボーグ、中ストリボーグ、トリグラフ、SA1です

Twitter · Feb 9, 2024, 10:18 AM

[keen valve]

yep just tested it out

[keen valve]

gorgeous

[past panther]

i think u get more damage with straight sa3 at the end but it's a dope showcase i guess

that combo is mad useful getting the corner from midscreen like that

[ionic stone]

wasn't there like a pdr combo that ended with 6hk into m.swipe that can be used here?

[past panther]

not from midscreen like that

gotta be a bit closer

[cobalt plume]

Any you guys entering tourney tonight?

I entered one of those battle hub tournaments before and lost to the worst Sim ever. I'd upload the reply but it's absolutely embarassing

[ionic stone]

@past panther I've been looking at my own replays and wondering about how I can adapt my gameplan to suite the new ranked pool I found myself in - mid diamond. Previously I got a lot of mileage out of using my zoning, a counterhit from checking movement, drive rush etc. into fullscreen where I would use a lot of 22MP to keep them out and win that way, checking fullscreen horizontal moving moves like Ryu h.tatsu.
Now I find that this strategy while still good, feels very flowchart-y and restrictive. I watched a couple of replays of some 1200-1500 MR JPs and they play more like I would like to play - more proactive in making things happen, more understanding of the character's kit. Within the next month, I want to be more intentional with understanding his toolkit, his sequences and just be more aware of things like when Cammy has Level 3 and is fullscreen for example, learning how to actually apply strike/throw and being confident in going for a more advanced level gameplan and to take burnout situations into stun.
Is there any insight you can provide into this as to what avenue I should be going down towards?

[past panther]

I'd say 1200-1500MR JP players are no what you should be watching. most of them still do not understand or are not comfortable yet with the fact that JP does not want to sit full screen because you can't mix good players full screen. they will just walk and parry your shit. You have to learn to, especially in some matchups, play up close and personal and leverage spacing and plus frames to secure corner mix, which is your main win condition imo.

apart from that, it seems like you know what to work on

[keen valve]

i feel like as u rank up ur jp using his zoning tools midscreen to condition your opponents into spacing themselves where you want them to becomes more important than just running the bullet hell

which is still useful in some situations even in higher rank lol

[grim lion]

Top players use portal to walk forward

[cobalt plume]

Kakeru and BananaKen all you need 😉

[keen valve]

mhm and nemo

[grim lion]

And lord venom

[keen valve]

thats how ive ran jp ever since i came across kakeru

cant believe hes not competing in capcom cup 😢

[grim lion]

Really the opponent needs to prove they can deal with bullet hell. If they can't, why bother exposing yourself?

[cobalt plume]

hes gonna enter LCQ

[cobalt plume]

Can anyone do this btw? I cant get the snap to hit on the 2nd ex portal

[keen valve]

when i was dropping the second od portal snap i was doing it too late

[cobalt plume]

I cant do it fast enough

also

why when I'm blocking and press DI ntohing happens

to counter another DI?

[keen valve]

hold forward as u di after u feign ghost

[ionic stone]

Given me a lot of perspective, thank you everyone 🫡

[cobalt plume]

what?

[oblique forum]

I notice this happens to me as well.

i started doing crLP xx DI go counter di if I'm blocking

Because otherwise I don't get it many times

[shy vine]

Input window is much more lenient on a cancel

Since you have the hitstop

[keen valve]

https://x.com/rarirario222/status/1755790394087068031?s=46 meaty fmk after sa2 activation and that od command grab rest is crazy

ラリラリオ (@rarirario222) on X

ぼくのかんがえたさいきょうのがめんはじハメ
※SA1ヒット後と最後のJHP後はそれぞれ＋26でございます

Twitter · Feb 9, 2024, 3:07 AM

[past panther]

i think it was deleted?

[keen valve]

shows up for me and i can click the link

[grim lion]

Are there any other viable wallsplat options other than 6HK xx M spin, 5HP xx Blender?

[grim lion]

Built out a new section

[shy vine]

unless it's gonna kill i don't like doing the double od portal combo from the corner PCpersonally

i'm a big fan of just the f HK starter

[grim lion]

How much damage does it do?

Cus I sure can't hit these

[shy vine]

alright gimme a sec

let me boot up

[grim lion]

I was trying to do the side swap combo and never once hit it

But I can occasionally now hit the light to medium to sa2 combo

[shy vine]

3980 for the double OD portal

[grim lion]

And if you spend SA3?

[shy vine]

2000 more than that lol

[grim lion]

Yeah I realized right as I asked

[shy vine]

f HK xx MP spin into HP xx OD ghost, spike LP spin does 3650

[grim lion]

What's the optimal low investment if you get PC DI on a cornered opponent?

One that doesn't cost you a total of 5 bars

[shy vine]

well that's the thing

i'm a f HK xx spin starter

but depending on the situation i use different enders

[grim lion]

so just blender status

[shy vine]

yeah

if i want to be meterless i'll do hp xx portal or HP xx MP spin for the safe jump

so let's use the DI pc starter as a reference point

f HK xx spin, HP xx portal does 2720 and there's a portal

f HK xx spin, HP xx MP spin does 3120 and you get a safe jump

neutral jump HK, slightly delayed f HK xx MP spin, st HP xx portal does 2900, portal oki but it's harder

neutral jump HK, slightly delayed f HK xx MP spin, HP xx MP spin does 3220

i don't really do those though they actually lower your damage for longer combos

but it could be worth it for regular portal

f HK xx spin, HP xx OD ghost, spike, portal does 3440 and gives you portal oki

[grim lion]

How's it look now? https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVN4gJgfc=/?share_link_id=171075691111

[shy vine]

and of course f HK xx spin, HP xx spike, OD portal does 3120 and you get the OD portal

oki

[grim lion]

yeah that's a blender note

I have an entire different section for that

[shy vine]

yup

[grim lion]

The problem with the blender is you have so many ways to get into it so the scaling is highly variable and damage numbers aren't consistent

Makes documenting it extremely difficult

[shy vine]

yea

but it's just about the relative tradeoff

you can see the damage numbers are relatively close together within like 600ish

and obviously the higher the scaling the more you want to prioritize the oki

https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1UkfAxRWi7fZcn/d1337beUIIQk?invite=cr-MSw3Y2csMjAzODI3MDAzLA

[grim lion]

I dunno how to represent that on the board though

[shy vine]

the other day i got a chance to route this way which i've never done before

cause it made sense with the specific situation

@grim lion you just represent it by where each combo leads to

cause they all lead to a different oki situation

safe jump, regular portal, OD portal

[grim lion]

I'm the worst person to be building this lol

I can't execute half the combos so I can't test it myself

[shy vine]

notably though there are 2 different types of regular portal oki

st HP xx portal the portal picks up after throw, but you can only get a super 1 juggle

st HP xx od ghost juggle into spike regular portal leave syou plus and you can immediately throw instead of having to delay

so you can do throw, portal picks up, st HP

which is really nice

[grim lion]

do you just throw st HP xx OD ghost and hope?

[shy vine]

no this is a juggle

[grim lion]

Oh I see

already in the blender

[shy vine]

yea

oh you have some issues

if you do od portal into immediate throw, you can't juggle f hk

you need to go straight into HP

[grim lion]

This part?

[shy vine]

yeah

[grim lion]

Just rip the 6hk block?

[shy vine]

it only goes to HP

[grim lion]

Gotcha

[shy vine]

i mean or cr HP reset

but you know what i mean

[grim lion]

I do not

[shy vine]

i'm just saying that f HK doesn't juggle, not that nothing hits there

cause cr HP basically always hits in any situation st HP would hit in

if it's in range

it just resets the opponent instead of keeping them in a juggle

so usually it's use for a high/low ghost mix or feint ghost into throw to beat parry

[grim lion]

Oh yeah, the line leads back to the start of the blender once I ripped that bit out

But you're saying instead of OD portal, throw, 5HP xx blender
It could be OD portal, throw, 2HP xx high/low ghost mix?

[shy vine]

yes

[grim lion]

Where does that go?

[shy vine]

usually a medium

you usually see it after a MP spin though

[grim lion]

So like 2MP xx M spin or something out of that?

[shy vine]

yeah but you need to be close

so i'm usually using it after like

[grim lion]

if they're cornered

[shy vine]

target combo xx MP spin

since it moves forward

[grim lion]

What's the whole situation you're talking about?

[shy vine]

in the corner they get hit by b MP tc into spin

then if you're close enough, instead of safe jump oki you can do cr HP into a ghost

and doing cr HP xx empty ghost is -2 so you can block any reversal

[grim lion]

does cr HP true combo out of M spin there?

[shy vine]

yes

it air resets them

in that specific situation it's +11 on regular hit so you can go with a medium or theoretically f HK

https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1UqGGd9aR4agaK/d1337gHwMLQx?invite=cr-MSxEMzIsMjAzODI3MDAzLA

[grim lion]

how do you get the bMP starter? Just throw it out and hope?

[shy vine]

looks like this

could be a jump in, could be a conversion like a PC jab

[grim lion]

Gonna need a new section really

Corner pressure tools

[shy vine]

oh btw

you know that weird midscreen level 2 high/low setup

[grim lion]

No

[shy vine]

basically after HP spin, you can do MK ghost into level 2

and set up a portal mix

but it doesn't work all the time

the issue being if they wall bounce too early (for example you do PC st HP as the starter and you're far), they will be too low for level 2 to juggle

you can get around this though by using an OD spike to pick up before the level 2

but you need to kill 4 more frames (i do cr mk instead of cr MP), but that puts me on the other side of them after an instant overhad so you have to remember to f HK from the other side

https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1UqRpzEOK5nBmg/d1337Rrcjpr5?invite=cr-MSw3R3gsMjAzODI3MDAzLA

here you go

first it's the regular setup, second is the issue that happens if the opponent is too low, last is the alternate pickup

[grim lion]

I think there are so many fuzzies in JP because that's how my brain feels

[shy vine]

it also works from any full screen OD spike pickup

https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1UqWjCO04VIigr/d13370HeVsXz?invite=cr-MSx4b04sMjAzODI3MDAzLA

like a ghost or a portal pickup or whatever

oh but if they quick rise on this one you don't get a jump HK setup lol

rip

it works though if you use st MK instead of cr MK frame kill, but that makes it a 6f safe jump instead of 5f

nah i'm not satisfied with this

it needs a different frame kill

https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1Ur9Vu4DiYk2_p/d1337zcIEgDf?invite=cr-MSw3U0csMjAzODI3MDAzLA

getting a nice pickup after a any OD spike into level 2 would be nice

but yea st MK+bMP as the grounded frame kills there work for both back roll and quickrise

but you're a +41 safe jump instead of +42

this also gives you a fuzzy setup on a midscreen PC DI

since the wait HP xx HP spin, mK ghost juggles too low to go straight into level 2

but you can just od spike pickup

[past panther]

wow you guys worked a bit

dope

[shy vine]

alright fellas

i've got it

full screen OD spike xx level 2, whiff cr MP, empty jump forward, whiff cr HK, HP portal

that's the +42 safe jump that works on both quickrise and backroll

[past panther]

the tech lord

[past panther]

this is only off of regular H spin combo no?

doesn't work on just OD spike xx sa2 i figure

[shy vine]

No

It works on raw od spike too

[past panther]

PC too? I know they're elevated more

[shy vine]

Pc too

[past panther]

interesting how it doesn't change

[shy vine]

Yeah

@past panther you know what's weird

When I was testinf

Doing whiff cr hk first instead of cr mp

Makes it not work on regular rise???

[past panther]

weird, cause they should be interchangable no? but I suppose it matters since how close you are to your opponent when they are being juggled by sa2 changes the juggle

[shy vine]

Yeah that's why it was so annoying

To find a frame kill that works

[past panther]

yeah sounds like it

[shy vine]

The other one I posted is +41

But it's much closer to the other setup

Just replace the cr mp whiff before portal with st mk

[keen valve]

beautiful work

[shy vine]

i really like this one cause it works on any od spike

juggle, PC, grounded hit

@past panther https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1UEjFIj2ZHAXTq/d1337oio7kWW?invite=cr-MSxRZWQsMjAzODI3MDAzLA

look it works exactly the same on PC and regular hit

replaced the video with one that shows a low juggle too

the sa2 after ghost setup not working with a low juggle is why i was looking for this in the first place

[shy vine]

https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1ULvTpboaUxzJu/d1337N6pSwS7?invite=cr-MSxlZUIsMjAzODI3MDAzLA

found a meterless fuzzy setup on activation with portal up

this is pretty deep down the rabbit hole but it's cool

[shy vine]

https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1UM4HDGUv3f3cF/d1337eK6xsiB?invite=cr-MSxHbkEsMjAzODI3MDAzLA

got it in game

https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1UMbVbnTrrBgui/d1337SVDKGeC?invite=cr-MSxIRWcsMjAzODI3MDAzLA

[past panther]

sick bro

[cobalt plume]

Guess that's a bit easier where you wiff about 3 things ha

[oblique forum]

It's so fun playing as cammy against the low ranked JPs knowing what I know haha

They all one and doned me though🥲

[cobalt plume]

https://www.twitch.tv/makoto0124

This guy doing some JP tech

[cobalt plume]

@grim lion are you watching?

[grim lion]

No

I'm working

@cobalt plume anything of note you saw?

[cobalt plume]

https://clips.twitch.tv/BoredCulturedDelicataShazBotstix-o5QJTZSee4n6BXO5

Think he's trying to workout what buttons get him closest to the corner for the wall splat

[shy vine]

if you want to get closer to the corner starting with dr hk/cr mp before the tc would give you some for free

depends on how much pushback you need i guess

i mean drive damage

[cobalt plume]

https://youtu.be/FU2VejZBYlY anti floating Sim tech

[cobalt plume]

Why have I only just discovered OD Amnesia combo is better with f.HK instead of cr.MP? Autotimed with the former

[oblique forum]

Doesn't work on throws right? It works for DI!

[shy vine]

yeah it's only for massively negative moves

like DI or command grab

[grim lion]

They need a move that is 28f of recovery or more for it to work

[grim lion]

Man punk vs vxbao looked so cruel

Punk was just perfectly spaced to whiff punish and was right like 90% of his guesses

Clean set to watch JP get dismantled

[cobalt plume]

Watching Problem X dismantle punk in the Grand Finals was even better

I wanted Kakeru to win but after that Problem X so I'm happy

[cobalt plume]

New lvl 2 route from Nemo https://clips.twitch.tv/EntertainingDaintyKumquatDBstyle-tC9qxV-k1xZEuWqn

[cobalt plume]

Looks like OD Amnesia getting a big nerf

Less active frames and big damage scaling

https://twitter.com/noonches/status/1760413702350926069?t=4sGj_ZzkYlx0GjxHUj_tXw&s=19

Luke :/ (@noonches) on X

OD amnesia definitely less active unless im going crazy

Twitter · Feb 21, 2024, 9:18 PM

https://twitter.com/noonches/status/1760392991397838952?t=0O9vspJvvUNV-kOOIWwsCg&s=19

Luke :/ (@noonches) on X

At the capcom cup ed setup and there are some balance changes in this patch. Amensia has heavy scaling, ken throw loops are gone (not all), and jamie keeps lvl 2 drinks ive found so far

Twitter · Feb 21, 2024, 7:56 PM

[past panther]

hell yeah

can't wait

[grim lion]

Valmaster played JP yesterday? Wild

Got destroyed and went back to Chun lmao

[cobalt plume]

yeah he sucked

[grim lion]

Honestly capcom cup is making JP look pretty mid

Rashid and Blanka looking great

[cobalt plume]

Yep

JP is overblown

[grim lion]

I think he's still very good but he's not #1 best character that a lot of people were hating on, and amnesia isn't nearly as good as people claimed

[past panther]

yea val played like shit on jp ngl

his chun was nice but also lost

[grim lion]

He also played Kimberly

3 characters in 2 sets makes me think he's not feeling confident

[past panther]

yea

kim worked tho

[cobalt plume]

All the JPs in the tournament are shit

BananaKen, Nemo and Kakeru died for this

[grim lion]

At the same time, those three couldn't even make it in

[shy vine]

if kakeru moved to india i think he would be in capcom cup rn

[oblique forum]

Kim match was nice to see

I felt sorry for the other guy

[grim lion]

This is going further and further off topic but the grey blanka skin looks like he's always in burnout and that's a problem

Mena was running it

[past panther]

how about the DJ level 2 removing the burnout color lol

[past panther]

we're closing in on 5000 messages here wow

[grim lion]

How does the SA2, 5HP xx H Portal, 2MP xx DI, DI work?

I can't get it to connect

second DI always dropps

[past panther]

wait wut

in the combo trial?

or what

@grim lion

[grim lion]

Yes, also in the notes

[past panther]

there's a manual delay there

that route sucks

[grim lion]

Where's the manual delay?

And what's the optimal route?

[past panther]

idk about optimal optimal but the one most peeps including lemon go for for consistency is

sa2 5hp dash 5hp xx portal, walk back a bit 5hp xx DI, DR 5hp xx DI

in the corner you just do another DI at the end and ditch DR 5hp

[shy vine]

you can also do a f HK juggle if they're in the corner

after the first one

[grim lion]

For completing the combo trial though, when's the delay?

[shy vine]

idk

[past panther]

idk either das a dumb one

look at the replay

and try time it the same way

iirc

you don't cancel the 2mp into DI

or you delay it or something

[grim lion]

I ggave up

[past panther]

time waster anyways

[grim lion]

When do you use light ghost full screen?

I just watched Ryusei do it 5 times in a row

[grim lion]

I genuinely think he doesn't know the other ghosts are high/low

I'm seeing 5HP xx L ghost on block

[shy vine]

that's the ghost i usually use on block too

light ghost is faster

[grim lion]

Full screen?

On block, 5HP xx M or H ghost lets you force a reaction check and potentially set up for fake ghost into PDR throw or just command grab if they consistently parry
Full screen, same deal but relies on teleport instead for bad parry usage

^ my thought process

So why would you want to give up those options and just spam L ghost?

[shy vine]

Because it's faster

That's the reason

Since it doesn't take as long for hitbox to activate it's harder to get through

[cobalt plume]

https://clips.twitch.tv/TacitWanderingGrouseVoHiYo-vyD6mZzSES5iQ0tk

havent seen this route before

but you do you get it off DI or Stun?

7210 in CA and only 3.5 bars

[shy vine]

just because you have practice mode set to refill your bars doesn't mean the 2 refilled bars don't count

i think this does about the same as the regular double OD portal combo but costs 2 more bars

[past panther]

my guess is every pro labbed PP timing for M/H ghost out of 5hp but not L ghost which is faster

[grim lion]

Is feint the same duration for all ghost types?

[past panther]

yes

tho i always use L

[cobalt plume]

Well RIP Amnesia

[past panther]

thank god i can actually shit on jp players now

[oblique forum]

GGs No more anti airing as JP

😭

[past panther]

welcome to dhalsim gameplay

[grim lion]

The changes seem well designed

Didn't break combos but made low effort high value moves more available for punish