Do something about the spectacular amount of stolen Roblox-thumbnails on the Play menu!

[hollow quest]

there is 3 copies

all different co owners

[tawdry siren]

whats the name of the third

[tawdry siren]

maybe if they flip the image itll be a completely different thumbnail 🤔

[lavish kindle]

put a filter over it and it becomes original

[severe yew]

As I go to flip my thumbnail, thus making the clickbait text unreadable…

[hidden pecan]

what do you think of my thumbnail for my new game

I call it "How far can you (2x Tokens!) launch Nuclear warheads sumulator tycoon (Free!)"

took a little too long to make this. About 10 seconds 😒

[coarse yarrow]

I love how this is a parody, but took longer to make than every other thumbnail we have listed

[hidden pecan]

real

[hearty dirge]

Bold of you to assume these “creators” actually make these thumbnails

[clear tangle]

10 seconds! I could make that in 3!

Still looks amazing 👍

How many token transactions?

[hidden pecan]

yeah sorry it took me 5 to find a game on roblox and 5 to download

could be optimized

[hidden pecan]

dunno how many exactly but since the launch of this game i've been living in a $10m mansion taking tours of the grand canyon in a helicopter

so it probably got like one or two transactions for me to afford that

[clear tangle]

Mk

[hidden pecan]

but you know could be better

instead of charging 100 billion tokens for a power up i can try 200 billion

maybe then i can make some decent money

[spring steppe]

these are 2 different rooms.

[sage summit]

this is the dream rec room “original”

[tawdry siren]

They really put in effort by changing the text

[severe yew]

Cough cough file a ticket cough

[tawdry siren]

Be honest, when has making a ticket actually ever done anything about this issue

[severe yew]

idk how many tickets have you sent regarding this issue

[tawdry siren]

No point, fwict in this thread, it doesn’t do anything.

[severe yew]

I am once again urging you to take 5 minutes to send in tickets about these rooms if they are clone republished rooms

I can’t say for certain yet if it works. My first ticket on this issue did result in the rooms getting taken down. I currently have 4 bigger tickets regarding higher profile creators and rooms for clone republishing and will report back if it’s successful.

[fierce girder]

It does not.

[severe yew]

Really?

[fierce girder]

We've been sending many tickets and yet these types of rooms are still up.

[severe yew]

Can you dm me screenshots of some of your tickets regarding clone rooms?

[fierce girder]

Well I haven't sorry, but others have, such as BearDaBear.

[severe yew]

Can we try the system first to see if it works before writing it off? I can help you

[toxic raft]

Are there any lists of the cloned rooms that I can refer to? I would love to make a few tickets but as I only go to val art, im not very aware of the kind of rooms that are consistently cloned and the players who do it

[severe yew]

I can’t necessarily post a list publicly since it’ll be witch hunting but often these are “templates” basically. I can go into further detail in dms

[toxic raft]

Sure

[hazy oar]

this more accurate

[dire violet]

The hot page should value games that get updated often

Not like, every time a new save is published, but every time a new save is published with actual changes

This shouldnt be the only metric, but I think it should be a metric that gets accounted for, and should be carefully implemented so it cant be abused

This would mean games that aren't updated would disappear from the hot page, and games that are active stay up

[tawdry siren]

people after uploading an empty game then slowly updating it to get a finished game

[elfin violet]

You wouldn't believe us if we told you, we already tried that, idk what they are smoking, they assumed my game got stolen or something??
I showed them 2 rooms, an image from each room, which shows you THEY ARE LITERALLY EXACTLY THE SAME, and that they are winning room rewards, this image shows what they responded with

they won room rewards, games are still up, this game is burning down, rec room studio was a bad idea

wertyuio

asdfghjklkjhgfdsaASDFGHJKL;

[elfin violet]

It doesn't work

[toxic raft]

I am aware that what Rec Room does to issues related to copyright is very little, as I submitted a ticket when someone traced my invention and nothing got done. However, we put emphasis on trying to actually do something, and doing it consistently. If Pan Knight gives me some information about those rooms I am willing to submit the ticket to help support actual creators

[elfin violet]

what type of information

[toxic raft]

.

[elfin violet]

I tried

[toxic raft]

Theres too many, i hope to know which ones to tackle first

[safe heath]

Mostly costume roleplay’s, “how far can you” stuff, etc. You will find a lot of them by checking the hot tab, or new tab.

[severe yew]

Reply to the ticket that these are clone republished rooms - that you are not disputing the room ownership, that your ticket was either misinterpreted or mishandled. Point to rule 9 on the creator code of conduct. You got this.

[elfin violet]

for starts they could of knocked out THE 2 I SHOWED THEM that were winning the creators about $1600-$3800 split

[elfin violet]

It's been 3 weeks since the ticket was submitted, my friend submitted it

[severe yew]

Ok then tell your friend lol

Don’t get discouraged and give up when it’s clear there was just a miscommunication

[elfin violet]

it's been 3 weeks since the ticket was made, I don't think they will respond

[toxic raft]

They are obliged to

I think

[severe yew]

They’ll respond if the ticket gets reopened (it gets reopened when you comment on it)

If they continuously ignore a ticket then that can be escalated

[elfin violet]

There's no point in replying. the creators ALREADY GOT THEIR $2000-$3000
All Rec Room's gonna do is take the rooms down and the creators will get off scott free

[severe yew]

Simply false. Keep in mind there are “creators” who have lost the ability to cash out as the result of reports for clone republishing (specifically reports I made)

[toxic raft]

I dont think we’re doing this to take away the money that these people already earned

[elfin violet]

Looks like they are gonna get $3000 more because it won last months room rewards, and its participating in this ones aswell

[severe yew]

Yeah, they can have that victory, ultimately they’re just stealing rec rooms money lmfao

If rec room wants to allocate their budget to costume park republishers and not have any checks against that? No biggie. Let’s just focus on making sure their little racket doesn’t operate as smoothly in the future.

Rr burning money? Whatever. What’s new?

It IS probably good to mention that room rewards forbid clone republished rooms, so mentioning that in the ticket could help. I didn’t mention that in my tickets yet but I should

If you don’t keep the fight up with the tickets though they will continue to do this unchecked.

[elfin violet]

My friend did mention that, I told him like 12 times to put that info in aswell because I showed him the 2 rooms

anwways this should do right

[severe yew]

Ok real quick:

1. Do the rooms share owners/co owners?
2. Are they literally the same exact room?
3. Which came first?

[elfin violet]

1. No they do not share owners, not that I know of
2. They are literally the exact same room, except for the name and thumbnail
3. the one that came first didn't have rrs and was made by someone named Alvedon(who changed their name so you cant find them so its not witchhunting) It was an obvious cash grab and had 215,120 keys and inventions
   You know whats funny? When someone stole / rightfully copied the room, they change anything, not even the creator buttons

Stolen game:
^SkibidiPvPToilet

Original : ^SkibidiToiletPvP2

[severe yew]

Yeah, you would want to mention in the ticket which room came first and how these rooms are exactly the same “clone republished rooms”

It might not delist the rooms, but it can forbid them from room rewards.

[elfin violet]

what if, they cloned it again, there is actually like 3 clones of the original but I think the kids have caught on so they don't play them because its exactly the same game

[severe yew]

So here’s what I would type in the ticket, for any rooms that are clearly the same room that don’t share co owners attempting to get on room rewards:

1. Hello, these 2 (or more) rooms are exactly the same, yet are competing for slots on the room rewards for this month.
   (Link to rooms)
   One of the rules of room rewards is that clone+republished rooms are not eligible for rewards. Please make sure that the room rewards teams understands that these rooms are attempting to skirt the system and claim rewards for the month despite breaking this rule.

[elfin violet]

I'm pretty sure my friend already sent it

Room Rewards was created to help smaller creators earn tokens too
Cash grab creators start abusing it to earn more
Rec Room Studio was created to expand the creativity of rec room and let creators go past the limitations of the makerpen
Cash grab creators start abusing it to earn more

This whole you earn double what you cashout till the end of 2023! thing was probably designed to make smaller creators earn more.
sadly, you know what comes next

[hidden pecan]

real

[elfin violet]

yes

[hidden pecan]

faith in this game drops by the hour

[wise cliff]

almost 100 upvotes

[elfin violet]

reed

it

redit

reddit

[leaden forum]

done

[wise cliff]

gg ez

[elfin violet]

It's official Taconic is gonna

he will

[wise cliff]

what?

[elfin violet]

_ _

[wise cliff]

[hidden pecan]

he will what

[coarse yarrow]

How is this still a problem

This is getting rediculous

[hidden pecan]

real

[elfin violet]

They simply don't care

[carmine hill]

Remember good old times when u needed quality games to be popular

[vapid agate]

I can’t believe it as well. They’re killing their own game 🫢

[dire violet]

The issue is that in recroom right now, they aren't many big teams making big, replayable games

With the introduction of RRS, thats happening, but slowly

[hidden pecan]

little too slow

[vapid agate]

I want them to just remove the new tab tbh

can’t stand it anymore lol

[sage summit]

this has been a rule in the TOS
“You must not utilize "clickbait" or any other misleading or obnoxious methods in connection with promoting your User Content.”

[willow reef]

real

[tawdry siren]

I agree, but there's also the issue that it crashes on mobile.

[meager ginkgo]

Meanwhile in ink inc

[willow reef]

most moral creator

I left the ink inc server for a reason 💀

[hidden pecan]

thats wild

really shows the state of rec room right now that there's people legitimately having these conversations about the best ways to gain the system and cheat the new page

in the wild too

not even in private

[cedar flint]

im only in inkinc to make fun of those people

[coarse yarrow]

ink inc was ruined when it left beta

• me a beta user

[carmine hill]

At this point cashgrab represents RecRoom

Ima get banned for this post or smthing

[severe yew]

Tickets work. Multiple skibidi rooms just got delisted, along with a couple of the "ride a cart into" rooms, i assume due to tickets I've filed.

Please make tickets against republished content.
One thing im not sure of if player's accounts are actually getting punished, or if they're just scrubbing the rooms. One of the republishers (who has had moderation action against his account for republishing before IIRC) is online in a room according to rec.net, so not sure.

Heres what one of my tickets looked like if anyone wants to help clean up some of the republished crap goin around

[elfin violet]

can you dm me telling me who it was

I think I know

T

I hope

[hidden pecan]

Frypan single handedly writing an MLA format college essay of evidence to take down these garbage ass rooms 🔥

now that we know plan T works everyone here should submit at least one ticket

have a mass culling

[severe yew]

yeah theres no excuse now, i dont wanna hear about how tickets dont work.. if it doesnt work then its likely a communication problem

[hidden pecan]

real

[severe yew]

i can help type out tickets... dm me what you're sending and i can help improve it if needed

[coarse yarrow]

Just make a prompt with blank spaces for the room names and creators

[severe yew]

Here is my ticket template:

Hello,

The following rooms are clone republishes this room, which I believe is the original: [Insert Original Room Recnet Link]

• [Recnet Link]
• [Recnet Link]

The co-owners of these rooms are:

• [Recnet profile link]

Rule #9 of the Creator Code of Conduct (https://recroom.com/ccoc) forbids low-effort republishes of rooms that function to game the #new page.
"Reposting exact or extremely similar low-effort clones of the same room to maintain a spot on the "New" page."

[severe yew]

Then i upload any media necessary, usually videos of me entering/looking around the offending content back to back.

[flat olive]

Okay, cool. CCoC is being enforced. I had my doubts, but I guess I was wrong!
Anyway. We still have the issue at hand with the Roblox-thumbnail-ripoffs, though. Not all of these rooms are reposts and I'm unsure wether or not they'd get in trouble if we can't prove that they are just blatant copies. We might be able to get rid off of the ones that are springing up in the New page, but not the ones that have already gained enough traction to stay afloat. I believe we still need this rule.

[slate steppe]

Yeah, I have seen multiple high quality rec room thumbnails, most of the time the game is very low quality and is in hindsight, a cash grab games, personally, if you were to take an icon, at least do the effort in throwing it into an image editor to modify it so its not entirely Roblox related

[flat olive]

Yes, it's still a good plan to go after these people nonetheless. Just making sure we don't close the lid on this just yet

[slate steppe]

I would suggest the Devs could get their hands on an image moderation system where before posting a thumbnail, the image is processed by Rec Room moderation bots or real world people

I would assume that programming wise, the bot would be used on Rec.net to moderate images

[hollow quest]

Unfortunately, (blabbering that doesn't make sense)

[quiet patrol]

W

[willow reef]

There's new policy going into effect actually, and that work is already beginning. You will hear more about it later this week.

[willow reef]

Said new policy and work does target misleading thumbnails.

[hollow quest]

will there be an apology video where gribbly sits down on a couch and breaths deeply

[willow reef]

I don't want to elaborate further, I would rather just let the news come out through the correct sources. Right now that would consist of the Creator Hub.

[willow reef]

no

[hollow quest]

https://tenor.com/view/blank-stare-homelander-antony-starr-the-boys-dead-inside-gif-25853869

[willow reef]

Personally I think some sort of response from our end would be nice. It is still disappointing that action took a long time.

As for said action and policy announcements though, I won't interrupt or steal the thunder of the proper announcements. Just wait for them later this week/next week.

[hollow quest]

videos on updates explaining everything in it would be nice
unrelated recommendation

[dire violet]

lmao

@north onyx

[lavish kindle]

rest in peace

[sage summit]

epik

[lofty dome]

Lolz

[tranquil cypress]

It’s hilarious that this and the “is Rec room losing its soul” thread are the longest lasting and most popular threads on the server and their both shitting on Rec room

[severe yew]

generally people engage with negative stuff more

[hidden pecan]

the negative stuff is also just very prevalent

this issue is one of many

its the most threatening issue to games that mean well and want to make a name for themselves if anything

cause taking one look at what's getting popular on rec room is what makes many new/smaller creators quit 💀

[tranquil cypress]

Largely because the negatives are such a problem

[flint schooner]

couldnt figure out how to make a video about this to gain more attention, so here's a random idea i had:
a "Cripy Concords tiktok bingo" type video where i go to all the "PEAK" rec room maps and mark off bingo spaces as i go
try giving suggestions on what i should add on here

[tawdry siren]

“Partnered creator” in the room owners bio

Grammar mistake somewhere in the room

5 or more co-owners

[long elk]

As an improvement for skibity toilet I recommend deleting everything and replacing it with a fun quest

[silk quest]

Hence the news headlines.

[hollow quest]

bro said to get more attention lmao

[hidden pecan]

owner has significantly less subscribers than the co owners

as in a tens of thousands subscriber difference

[severe yew]

Bragging about contest wins in bio. Military tags in bio. Gold hoodie. Seller swag. Recnet photos of them using the grimace face while flexing gold outfit items. “It’s just a kids game bro work smarter not harder.” Owning many once highly visited but now extremely dead rooms.

“I will pay you 100,000 tokens for owner in your room”

[hidden pecan]

all are real but last two especially are so prevalent

[severe yew]

another ticket going up

[coarse yarrow]

God these people are annoying

Why do they have to go out of their way to be miserable

I keep seeing their RR+ emojis be something like 💰 💵 or 🤑

[severe yew]

they're usually just kids

at least i assume

[severe yew]

Has anyone else filed any tickets?

[coarse yarrow]

I havent been as active on the situation as I was a little bit ago but ill make sure to send them as I find them

[coarse yarrow]

Maybe the lower end ones but the figureheads are primarily adults with lack of parental figures

[sage summit]

allota inventions

[flint schooner]

thats what all of this was for, is it not?

[flint schooner]

the more creator related spaces, the more i have to blur in the video
this is the card now though

[coarse yarrow]

Flexing Visits, offering promotion, and afk in their games maybe?

[formal zodiac]

Add the copy room button.

[fierce girder]

2016 Minecraft intro music in the room

Music in the voices channel

Obby with giant RESPAWN buttons under the map

[tawdry siren]

Free space

[quiet patrol]

Are you trying to make a bingo card for the low effort copypasta rooms?

[flint schooner]

yes, for a video
#1156666567434702848 message

[quiet patrol]

Nice lol

[safe heath]

1. Massive subscribe buttons practically everywhere
2. Stupidly expensive purchases
3. Uses RRS, but only for the thumbnail and skybox
4. Uses RRS, but abuses it widely with stupid models and anims
5. Poorly made maker pen stuff
6. Terrible hitboxes

[quiet patrol]

i have another suggestion: Consumables that ruin the room for everyone else (for example: a "Nuke" consumable in a parkour room that sends everyone back to spawn)

[fierce girder]

Suggestion: shit circuits that don't function

[elfin violet]

I will eat a wasp nest if all the low effort games are deleted

[ionic stirrup]

👀

Please post in #irl-food /j

[elfin violet]

ok

[formal zodiac]

Absolutely disgusting.
I don't feel like eating food anymore.

[fierce girder]

1,000 calories

[dire violet]

this is the most american american that ever lived

you cannot beat that guy

you are not that guy pal

no one will ever be

[wise cliff]

ive got one worse
https://youtu.be/zs3IIBFXSIA?si=H-Ugy-xA_OwX991l

[dire violet]

squirrel did not see the /j
squirrel was muted for posting this in #irl-food

[ionic stirrup]

Yeah I’ve let the mod know where the incident occurred lol, I don’t expect mute to last for what it was given

[quiet patrol]

ive never been so disgusted at a video on discord

[fierce girder]

#creator-announcements message YES

[tawdry siren]

Little T about to go broke.

[fierce girder]

[fierce girder]

@flat olive you got what you wanted

[vapid agate]

massive W

https://tenor.com/view/black-clover-emoticon-asta-lets-go-gif-21016541

[little stump]

Next target: capitalism?

[lament radish]

so zaza

[silk quest]

Now to see if they are going to stick to their own rules they just made and go after ALL of the rooms that violate them, or just the few that people seem to be complaining the most about.

[wise cliff]

🥳🎉

[coarse yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/polar-express-conductor-ticket-punch-one-gif-11897820

Rec room support

[ionic stirrup]

Let’s not eat a wasp nest 😅

[fierce girder]

Speak for yourself

[tranquil cypress]

We win!

[hidden pecan]

well shit let the culling begin

this is like rec rooms version of plan z

[worthy elk]

the rage reactions lol

[coarse yarrow]

Someone draft up a good template

[wise cliff]

unsurprisingly, its all cash grab creators

[coarse yarrow]

where is that?

[wise cliff]

creative club discord

#697470651208040549 message @coarse yarrow

[coarse yarrow]

Mr.T is there of course

[wise cliff]

💀

[fierce girder]

LMAOOOOO

[fierce girder]

Welp, that's 28% of his thumbnails potentially gone.

[coarse yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-dance-cat-cute-jumping-kitten-gif-16517861

about time

doors, demon slayer, and fnaf stuff should be against the policies too for being stolen IPs

Dear Ticket Holder,

I have come across a few rooms that conflict with your new thumbnail policies outlined on your website here https://rec.net/creator/p/thumbnailpolicy. I kindly urge you to investigate these rooms for breaking the rules of the new CCOC. It is my firm belief that these rooms are misleading and preying on other players which ruins not only the experience, but Rec Room's reputation.

Here are the rooms that I have discovered breaking the new conditions set by the CCOC :
[Map Name 1]
[Map Name 2]
[Map Name 3]

Thank you in advance, [Your Name]

Feel free to use that prompt when making your tickets

[flat olive]

I will accept this solution once we see how well reports are handled. This is a step in the right direction, fortunately it didn't take that long from the moment we started complaining until a solution is in place

[tranquil cypress]

Remember

This is Rec room

They could always just not do anything with the new rule

[elfin violet]

YOOOOOOOO

Skibidi Toilet will cease to exist on rec room

[fierce girder]

W

[lavish kindle]

thats huge

[elfin violet]

ye

he told me he's actually happy about losing his game, now he doesn't have to update it anymore
now his friends don't have to get harassed on PSN

[hollow quest]

ik bro is earning millions

[dire violet]

Oh AND skibidi DMCA? Thats huge, that means more companies may learn about RecRoom, and my start to take down more stolen IPs

[elfin violet]

Now that roblox thumbnails aren't allowed, me and my friends will send a ticket for every single room violating the new creator rules

[dire violet]

Awesome

[elfin violet]

lmao I just checked and surprise surprise, we can't see the game name anymore, which means its unpublished

[wise cliff]

[elfin violet]

anyone else wanna make a ticket for all of them?

why

we all know what the T stands for

[elfin violet]

why cant we send 9 images

[forest creek]

Good rec room is finally taking action

[fierce girder]

I guess either creator$ will have to learn how to make decent thumbnails that represent the rooms, or they'll just give up and hope promotion will carry the room with a shitty thumbnail.

[dire violet]

my favorite creator

[tawdry siren]

Bro what

[severe yew]

Upload them as a .zip file instead.

[dire violet]

found this on new page

they dont even try bro

[hidden pecan]

armageddon for cashgrab creators

watch the rate of stolen game ideas drop because they can't be bothered to make an original thumbnail that's enticing and related to the game

[lavish kindle]

they can just pay or scam someone out of doing it for them

[dire violet]

reminds me of that one creator

that like, does that all the time

god its just really hard to remember the name

[tawdry siren]

I can't remember what that first letter starts with...

[elfin violet]

IT

IT WAS

DAMN I LASO CANT REMEMBER

I KNOW

7

[fierce girder]

Isn't there a vowel in the creators name

Idk...

[tawdry siren]

I thought their name was a food

[carmine hill]

Add events

[coarse yarrow]

Has anyone had any success in taking down a thumbnail so far?

[north onyx]

Probably not because they aren't enforcing the policy yet. In the announcement they said they will enforce it "soon"

[coarse yarrow]

Got the bot response 😕

Not looking too good so far

Haven’t seen any thumbnails taken down

[north onyx]

Yeah because they aren't enforcing it yet🤷‍♂️

[coarse yarrow]

That sucks since it gives those Roblox creators time to think of another way to loophole the system

[hidden pecan]

people were saying earlier how a lot of rooms got hit

was that a false alarm

[coarse yarrow]

Where?

[hidden pecan]

like the moment this thing was announced

[north onyx]

I'm pretty sure that's the skibidi toilet DMCA takedown that's going on right now

[coarse yarrow]

Yeah those have been happening recently

I’m still seeing Mr.T’s games untouched

[hidden pecan]

this was one of em

i guess that really was the only one

lel

nevermind then

[fierce girder]

One of them is no longer public (most likely taken down in a panic as it had a Roblox thumbnail)

[inland comet]

@minor urchin on this day, we celebrate a victory far greater than we could’ve ever known

[minor urchin]

THE GODS OF OLYMPUS HAVE SMILED UPON US!!!

[flat olive]

Finally, finally it's happening.

[coarse yarrow]

Did something change?

Or do you mean in general

[flat olive]

In general

[quiet patrol]

:DDDD

[fierce lantern]

Does this mean we win

[quiet patrol]

We'll just have to wait and see if this problem fully gets resolved

[fierce lantern]

So for now

Maybe?

Ish

[hidden pecan]

it means things are tipping in the right direction

[flint schooner]

finished result of that bingo thing
this concept for the video went from "LOOK AT ALL THESE TRASH GAMES" to more of "haha look silly thing"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWAQi0eIjAY&t

[severe yew]

I like the way you make your avatars animate into the scene lol

[flint schooner]

ty
i do that in every video now

[sage summit]

i’ve always loved the avatar animations

also, very very neat video.

[coarse yarrow]

Anyone got any responses from their tickets? I have only gotten a bot response that I linked to earlier in the thread

[elfin violet]

same here

I just realized they aren't enforcing it yet

great so it will take even longer :DDD

[coarse yarrow]

I need a proper ETA otherwise this is just kicking the can down the road like when the devs said they were going to deal with it a month ago

A rule that isnt enforced isnt a rule

[elfin violet]

"Soon" they will start enforcing a rule that has took too much time to make, WHY NOT NOW?

Bruh they gonna let these creators cash in on room rewards

one last payout

[severe yew]

its the weekend so you probably wont receive a response

also if its about thumbnails, its probably gonna be slower since its a brand new policy. And there's probably lots of tickets being filed.

I get "bot responses" (i think these are a mixture of template responses actually inputted by a human, and sometimes chatgpt) but even when i receive these responses, offending content gets removed at most a day later.

[potent glen]

bruh

no way bro

isnt that the second time?

[elfin violet]

yeah

oh wow my friend is there

in the comments

[wise cliff]

dawg ☠️

is it really that hard to make an original thumbnail?

[coarse yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/utopia-gif-21647156

The world if T got banned

[livid sphinx]

BAN RELATED POST

Hi, @coarse yarrow!
It looks like this post might be about bans.

For all matters ban-related, you can find more info here: https://recroom.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/4419815401239-Appealing-Bans-Other-Restrictions
Rec Room does not discuss bans publicly, nor will anyone on the Rec Room Discord be able to help with ban appeals.

AutoMod - This action was performed automatically. Please disregard if incorrect.

[dire violet]

Apparently if your that guy, yes

So many scummy creators

I wonder if thats how roblox creators feel

[wise cliff]

probably

[dire violet]

Like, do roblox devs get angry that a simulator game can get popular despite being a copy of their old game with some assets changed?

[wise cliff]

apparently its a lot harder to gain notoriety on roblox because the problem is much worse on their platform

[little stump]

I love that they’re so lazy you can see the photo improperly cropped in the bottom right lmao

[fierce girder]

No, cause it makes them money and they can always just advertise the actual decent rooms.

[dire violet]

Let me correct my statement

Do good roblox devs get angry at cashgrab roblox devs for making low effort cashgrabs?

Devs as in people who create games on roblox, not roblox developers

I think the roblox team is full of shitheads, so

[fierce girder]

Ah

[dire violet]

I love my favorite sonic game creator, MisterObvious

you know, that creator that did awful things, and then roblox (a company that had this persons details, as this person has made games that made enough robux to let them cashout) refused to give these details to the police after getting evidence of what they have done

[fierce girder]

Oh yeah, we can talk about Roblox devs since it's not Rec Room

[dire violet]

honestly, roblox team is worse than twitch team

[fierce girder]

At least Twitch's new CEO is cool

[dire violet]

twitch moderation team literally moderating with one hand always

[fierce girder]

Same with YT recently

[dire violet]

SSSniperwolf moment

[fierce girder]

Yup

Any other person? Banned. sssniperwolf? No money for like a week.

[sage summit]

as long as ssniperwolf doesn’t address criticism then youtube won’t

[flint schooner]

its barely even that. all of her videos are still monetized except for the very new ones from a few days ago

[spring steppe]

I think this is a good example of what a room image should look like (real proud of it)

[dire violet]

She made an apology video

[sage summit]

she did?

[dire violet]

yes

[sage summit]

hold on i’ll brb

[dire violet]

Youtube pulled a school principal and was like "Well, we dont like the actions of either party on our platform 🙂 "

[sage summit]

i didn’t see moist critical’s video somehow

[spring steppe]

its dumb.

[dire violet]

mhm

[spring steppe]

youtube really do be simping hard for sssniperwolf

[dire violet]

like I said earlier, they really be moderating with one hand

[topaz nimbus]

Garbage, let a true master of thumbnail making show you an actual good thumbnail 🙄

[spring steppe]

@chilly ginkgo

[dire violet]

Where are the rainbows? Where are the arrows?
Why is it a photo of a recroom game and not a roblox game or youtube video?

[topaz nimbus]

you right, my bad

[chilly ginkgo]

[spring steppe]

why is the original img such low quality

[topaz nimbus]

here ya go

[topaz nimbus]

I literally resized it to 10% of its size, THEN resized it back up

I didn't mean to but it makes it look like Im making mario out to be gay, hes actuallyt Bi-sexual, I'm sorry for sending false information, I hope everyone can forgive me 😔

[spring steppe]

lol

[fierce girder]

As Moist said, what the fuck did Jack even do that's wrong?

[hidden pecan]

never thought id see the sssniperwolf controversy in this thread lmao

[dire violet]

I mean, im hoping it extends outside of youtube

Because of jacksfilms, people are learning creators can actually take action against theft

If you see a stolen asset/art/etc, tell the original creator where it is

[hidden pecan]

i def agree with that

[fierce girder]

YouTube is promoting criminals

[coarse yarrow]

I belive that this room changed their own thumbnail to avoid punishment and you can really see how much they needed it to get on the front pages lol. First picture was the before and the second is after. Compliments to T

[sage summit]

has rr taken any action or has it just been people changing thumbnails out of fear

[lavish kindle]

prolly the second one

[carmine hill]

We can go in og game creator dc and ask them to copyright their stolen thumbnails or smthing

[tawdry siren]

love how they were too lazy to get a new one so they just put some text and called it a day

[hidden pecan]

i think its mainly fear

until its actually enforced though they can figure out that the rule isn't being taken seriously so they'll probably teeter totter around it until there's actual consequences

[hidden pecan]

I love how they can't even put effort into their original thumbnails

like they can't even arrange things in an interesting order or make a half assed logo

might wanna scrub the names off

for your own sake

[tawdry siren]

he rly took a pic of his watch

[elfin violet]

they no longer violate any rules,......... that will be enforced

[hidden pecan]

yeah but im just saying if you wanna be safe

[ionic stirrup]

Looks like the thread is working. Misleading thumbnails are disappearing.

[hidden pecan]

yeah at a slower rate than we wished though

[elfin violet]

the only man that has, umm guards is, a creator

[hidden pecan]

just two days ago i reported a few off the new page and stopped because there were so many rule breakers

it's obvious a lot of these guys aren't aware of the new rule, or they understand there's no enforcement yet so they're stretching it out as long as they can

[ionic stirrup]

I think that’s fast enough

[hidden pecan]

yeah even if its just a handful at a time its nice to see

a little change is certainly better than none

[coarse yarrow]

It seems like they are being changed personally which allows them to avoid punishment for manipulating the system all this time

[lavish kindle]

maybe they were told to privately

[hidden pecan]

doubt

[sage summit]

it feels like rec room wants to preserve these types of creators

[coarse yarrow]

I really wish we could ban the 10 ish creators who are constantly doing this garbage

It’s not a large group just a few people who keep sharing co owner with each other to loophole systems

[fierce girder]

We all know who we'd ban if we could only ban 1 tbh.

[elfin violet]

HE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS

[coarse yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/knowing-better-kb-know-better-gif-25459195

[inland comet]

Is that stolen?

[dire violet]

I've been trying to search for the roblox game, but roblox only shows games off icon, not image
From what I can tell, yes, because of the very vibrant colors that dont seem to exist in the real room

Either they:

• Stole the entire image
• Stole the background image, blured it, and added their own title

[inland comet]

Ah

[topaz nimbus]

doesn't matter if its stolen or not, its 100% misleading, background doesn't match the image

[lament radish]

I'm just happy that these rooms are being taken care of, even if it's baby steps

[dire violet]

i was just warned

for that image

ok

I guess I should have clarified not to report the room, as in "Everyone come an report this", but as "Could someone make a ticket about this room's thumbnail?"

[sage summit]

the moderation is truly something

[coarse yarrow]

Makes a rule about not posting clickbait
Someone posts an image of someone breaking the rules
The image poster gets punished as the rule breaker goes free

[hidden pecan]

i love this game

perfect video game no flaws

[icy karma]

instead of taking down the room let’s take down the people complaining about the room 🔥👺🔥

[tawdry siren]

🔥🔥😮‍💨

[hidden pecan]

bro might be onto something

[quiet patrol]

wouldnt be surprised

[coarse yarrow]

How many of us have sent in tickets?

And if you did can you tell us how they responded?

[clear tangle]

New Rule???

[dire violet]

New thumbnail policy

[meager ginkgo]

Seller swag gets a bad rap but it genuinely looks really good

[tawdry siren]

The gold looks bad

[coarse yarrow]

I think the main draw is the gold textures not the item themselfs

Not a fan of any of the items apart from that fact

[hollow quest]

mid mid mid

only say that cuz it's mildy rare

[little stump]

sweller swag and golden items do not look good at all

[meager ginkgo]

no bc good color scheme

I also like the midnight gala set or whatever it’s called and that’s just in the shop

[hidden pecan]

yeah people like shiny

[severe yew]

I’ve been seeing thumbnails change. I assume the tickets are working?

[elfin violet]

Nah they're probably just seeing the new rules

you gotta be shitting me

It has 10k visits already and will probably win room rewards 💀

[coarse yarrow]

They are starting to be taken down or they have just decided to make a room with no thumbnail

Keep making tickets

[severe yew]

Good strategy

Most people won’t tho :/

[coarse yarrow]

I think we just need to keep telling people to make them if they complain

Takes 5 min to fill this out and submit

[severe yew]

it was a pretty sad revelation finding out that people just wanted to complain on discord instead of sending tickets/being proactive

[coarse yarrow]

I mean we just tell them they have no right complaining if they don’t have the strength to make a ticket

@flat olive can you pin this:

1. Go to this website https://recroom.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

2. Select “Moderation and Conduct” and “Report a room, invention, or custom avatar”

3. Fill in the fields required and add this prompt into the text box. Edit with the proper information and submit

Dear Ticket Holder,

I have come across a few rooms that conflict with your new thumbnail policies outlined on your website here https://rec.net/creator/p/thumbnailpolicy. I kindly urge you to investigate these rooms for breaking the rules of the new CCOC. It is my firm belief that these rooms are misleading and preying on other players which ruins not only the experience, but Rec Room's reputation.

Here are the rooms that I have discovered breaking the new conditions set by the CCOC :
[Map Name 1]
[Map Name 2]
[Map Name 3]

Thank you in advance, [Your Name]

[tawdry siren]

For me Zandesk crashes on mobile, so many people can't.

(If it crashes on mobile for everyone)

[coarse yarrow]

I’ve never had this problem and you can always do it on another device

You could also have a friend submit it for you

[tawdry siren]

Yeah. I'm just saying it seems to crash on mobile.

[ionic stirrup]

More or less the report menu needs to be updated to included CCoC options in game for the player base to be more actively reporting misleading room images. It’s still on the old UI.

Perhaps that can be the next step in requesting more hands at reporting the rooms

[coarse yarrow]

How about just having someone tasked with looking over the new page for oh idk, 5 minutes

[ionic stirrup]

Touché

[coarse yarrow]

This person for example got a single room punished, but they couldn’t have just looked at their profile and seen the dozen others

[ionic stirrup]

Are maps published before this policy affected?

[coarse yarrow]

Yeah

Don’t see how that plays into it though considering they break the rules either way

What I love is that these repeats offenders are going to get a slap on the wrist for plaguing the community for months

[hidden pecan]

months is generous

[coarse yarrow]

I just don’t understand why they are being victimized instead of being seen as legitimate threats until they are removed or another game pops up with the same faults that attracted them in the first place

[hidden pecan]

by this i mean its been more than a few months

didn't realize how ambiguous that sounded until now

[hidden pecan]

yeah

[elfin violet]

bruh

[elfin violet]

Classic <insert creator name with one letter>

[hidden pecan]

aint no way

[gritty thorn]

Some user posted a screenshot featuring another user in a negative way, classic witch hunting, nothing to see here.

It was also quite pointless, would have contributed in absolutely no way the purpose of this thread.
Edit: also I am not the one who deleted the screenshot, I have no such power. So screenshotting me was also super pointless. I was simply offering a logical explanation of what I saw.

[sage summit]

once rec room learns what witch hunting means they will go berserk

[gritty thorn]

BUt does it even matters what it means? If this is how RR wants to moderate their servers, then this is pretty much it. Nothing we can do.

[sage summit]

yes it matters what it means. the rule is misleading.

why call it something entirely different when you can just say something along the lines of “don’t say other peoples name in bad faith or criticize people”

[gritty thorn]

I don't think it's really that misleading when everywhere I saw similar witch hunting rules, the meaning was always the same as it is here.

[hidden pecan]

real

if you want to call it witch hunting it should correspond with the definition of witch hunting

if you have a different idea in mind it should be conveyed to the community

you could still call it witch hunting but with an actual clear definition of what you're looking for

for example I called someone's room bad and got timed for witch hunting (for context sake the mod who did so untimed me after a few minutes)

that situation doesn't correspond with witch hunting but if it was stated that "don't witch hunt, don't talk bad about other people's rooms" at least we would know what the rules were

[gritty thorn]

So, what is witch hunting for you? I did a quick google search, except for the litteral definition from a long time ago which consist of hunting someone accused of witchcraft, when it comes to social media, the meaning is always the same as it is applied her.

[coarse yarrow]

I think saying Roblox rooms are ruining the experience of others is pretty based

[gritty thorn]

True, but this is not what was happening in the screenshot shared by funkysquirrel above.

[coarse yarrow]

Well what was in the message where he mentioned a username

[gritty thorn]

It was a screenshot showcasing the negative reaction of someone regarding a recent RR announcement. Like I said, it served no purpose to the goal of this post.

There was nothing constructive about it. It was nothing more than "haha, look at [censored], he mad!"

[coarse yarrow]

Alr then nvm

[gritty thorn]

Ah yes, the social medias of the 1950s

Words can have multiple definitions, and the definition can evolve over time. Like it or not, this is the case for witch hunt as well.

If you want to quote a definition, make sure to find one fitting the current context.

[sage summit]

i’m not saying that your wrong here but i can’t find a modern definition of witch hunting that fits rec room’s definition
can you please provide a website or something along the lines of that

[gritty thorn]

Nope. I'm done. (Edit : I 100% believe you're being dishonest with your definition stuff, which have nothing to do with this thread, so it would be a waste of time.)

[sage summit]

ok

[gritty thorn]

And last thing, @elfin violet , I would appreciate you don't spread screenshots of other Discord servers without stating any context, especially when said screenshot have information that can identify me when I've technically done nothing. (I remind you that I'm not mod of any Discord server at all, I don't have the power to delete anything. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply by "bruh", but it sure doesn't sound like a constructive or postive comment.)

[hidden pecan]

like i said that's fine if they have a seperate definition. They should define it themselves so we're all on the same page. I wouldn't have an issue personally if I knew what they meant.

[coarse yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/jackscope-gif-19049938

me looking for how this is about thumbnails

[hidden pecan]

just replying to the conversation

[elfin violet]

yeah he was aware, but what we got from it is you just cant say or post any creators name that has a bad habit?

[elfin violet]

yeah I should probably stop doing that
<Username> doesn't even specify if I should post it or not
but he does share a lot of information with me

infact he just messaged me with something he disagrees with that probably relates to this thread but it would be posting it from another source on discord

[lavish kindle]

witch hunting ban

[sage summit]

oh the message was edited an hour later. what joy!
my definition hasn’t been dishonest, i am primarily using the Webster, Cambridge, and of course the Dictionary(.com) dictionaries to base what witchhunting truly is. this is why i was asking you for a source because i couldn’t find anything along the lines of plain criticism. the topic of witch hunting is extremely relevant to the thread as multiple people have been muted for critiquing creators. i understand the most recent case was validated but others have not been. i don’t believe it would be a waste of time to discuss what witchhunting truly is, more straightforward rules lead to less mutes.

[lavish kindle]

the dictionary had a bad definition

oh wait thats witch hunting im sorry dictionary for witch hunting

[elfin violet]

Come onnnnnn
still on new tab?

[silk quest]

New tab is going to be new tab. Those are literally new rooms. At least they aren't hot rooms, yet.

[violet helm]

how does one roleplay skibidi toilet

do they just say skibidi every 2 seconds?

[lavish kindle]

yes

[sage summit]

smh my head… you guys obviously aren’t true skibidi fans…

[lavish kindle]

you either say skibidi or dont speak at all

[elfin violet]

that skibiditoiletfunrprr game has been on the new tab for 3 days

[silk quest]

I don't know the specific requirements for new page, but think it can last up to 2 weeks.

[gritty thorn]

At least 2 weeks yes

[tawdry siren]

Thought it was 1w

[silk quest]

Might be 1 week. Certainly more than a few days

[little stump]

every body wants to rule the worrld

[gritty thorn]

More than 1 week for sure

We published a room about a month ago, it got stuck behind all the skibidi and roblox stuff, but it was definitely somewhere in the New page for about 2 weeks

[coarse yarrow]

Anyone got anything from their tickets or seeing thumbnails taken down?

Don’t want this thread to die until the job is done yknow

[tawdry siren]

#1168194814165123153

[gritty thorn]

I do feel like the number of such things may have went down, but maybe it's only the Skibidi DMCA takedown requests. The truth is I don't pay that much attention to them.

There seems to be only one with Roblox characters on the new page, made from the same creators I've seen on other similar rooms.

2-3 others in a similar style "level 1 | level 999" that I've seen on Fortnite as well, but they don't seem to be directly stolen. More like inspired from.

Upon closer look, one of the "Level 1 vs Level 999" style room is definitely a stolen thumbnail featuring elements not found in the room.

also made by the same creators pumping out copy/pasted rooms

[severe yew]

Not related to thumbnails per say but it’s been 2 weeks since I reported 5 hallway runners that were exactly the same, minus hallway color and what png was chasing you, and they haven’t been taken down, outside of a skibidi version that I assume dafuq took down.

This either means slow ticket response or the current threshold of what constitutes a cloned experience is going to be extremely easy to bypass.

[carmine hill]

I once said to a upcoming game creator not to make clicker games and make somthing original and he banned me

[livid sphinx]

BAN RELATED POST

Hi, @carmine hill!
It looks like this post might be about bans.

For all matters ban-related, you can find more info here: https://recroom.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/4419815401239-Appealing-Bans-Other-Restrictions
Rec Room does not discuss bans publicly, nor will anyone on the Rec Room Discord be able to help with ban appeals.

AutoMod - This action was performed automatically. Please disregard if incorrect.

[dire violet]

Smallest cash grab creator ego

[silk quest]

Looking at the hot menu today and I didn't see a single Roblox like image.

[quiet patrol]

The New page is where most of the crappy Roblox thumbnails come from. But youll likely see less of them or even none because of the thumbnail policy

[flint schooner]

a week ago i reported 14 rooms with misleading/stolen roblox thumbnails
1 was made private, and another changed the thumbnail. thats it

[tawdry siren]

[silk quest]

But the new page is like scrolling through rec.net. It is fresh things that have just been posted, so moderation and players have not seen it yet to take action. So, it is expected till they have some sort of AI start managing them.

[elfin violet]

-Stolen or Republished room that is monetized
-Stolen Thumbnail
-Participating In Room Rewards
-Participating in Room Rewards immediately after winning

fuck this game

[severe yew]

i dont see this room up.

[carmine hill]

I confronted a room creator whos game had roblox charectrrs in and he said he made the tuumbnail, like why this is rec room,I said that the room can get take down but he said it's not a big deal

[hidden pecan]

🤑

[rustic comet]

They're easy to make, they use it to get kids to buy keys and stuff because kids like Roblox, he gets easy money, it gets taken down and then they do it again with a slightly different concept

[elfin violet]

Good to hear

[severe yew]

there arent rules against afking in rooms.

[cedar flint]

fr

[severe yew]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNMbqu2dXU0 I will say I had no clue people were getting on alts and spinning in the #art category.

[cedar flint]

yea after i finish making my next room I'ma stop creating stuff for a while

[little stump]

i think im also done for now

[coarse yarrow]

Unreal time 🥲

[hidden pecan]

shit makes me never wanna make a game ever again

[fair fox]

Because the game is ass

[lament radish]

was going here to make sure someone acknowledged this video, nice W

there's a lot of good complaints

[hidden pecan]

🗣️🔥

[coarse yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/puppet-awkward-looking-what-side-eye-gif-15476992

Devs watching the video

[silk quest]

The 3-4 that might actually watch it already know that stuff cause they are already on here seeing the comments and having the conversations with people. That doesn't change the views of those above them that really don't care. They have a goal and a job to do, no ones feelings are going to change that.

[hidden pecan]

real

[formal zodiac]

Damn. A lot of this I wasn't fully aware of.
Gives me another reason to not launch the game for weeks on end.

[dire violet]

engagement, huh

If "engagement" just means "players turning in game" thats insane

[silk quest]

Engagement is literally just the player being the room not registering as AFK. Which means talking or moving.

[dire violet]

Yeah, even im smart enough to know "just moving" isnt enough

[silk quest]

It is to keep them from going AFK. Which means they are "engaged" in the room.

[dire violet]

In murderv3, the anticheat is smart enough to detect macro movements, meaning if your putting in the same inputs repeatively OR have really, really similar time between inputs for too long, you are marked as idle

in order to bypass this anticheat you would need to deliberately make a program to rotate your camera randomly, move randomly, at random times

[silk quest]

That might be something they have put into circuits in that room in particular. Especially since they implemented the whole "play 10 hours for a skin" thing. But, default Rec Room, not a thing.

[dire violet]

its something I put into the room for the 10 hour skin specifically

(dont mind the subtitle lmao, testing something)

[silk quest]

ah, see, so you know that movement keeps you from going AFK

[dire violet]

On screenmode, you are AFK if:

• Your camera movement is the same for a given amount of time
• Your camera inputs have been at roughly the same time too many times
• Your walk movement is the same for a given amount of time
• Your walk pattern has been the same for a given amount of time
• Your walk inputs have been input at roughly the same time too many times

Suspicious movement (Trying to deliberately bypass the AFK system) marks you as idle instantly
Idle movement (Not touching anything, like spinning the same speed, or not moving/moving in one direction) marks you as AFK after 30 seconds

You are automatically kicked from the room after being AFK for 2 minutes

If recroom were care as much about their users as I did, this manipulation wouldn't happen

[silk quest]

Again, that is your system in that room. Not the rest of Rec room.

[dire violet]

I know

I'm saying recroom should put as much effort as I do into their AFK system so people cant abuse it by just literally spinning

[silk quest]

But, in a game where you want to show to investors that people spend hours on end in certain rooms, what does booting them out do?

[dire violet]

and that is corruption :D

we love it

But I dont think booting them out would do anything

[silk quest]

They aren't doing it themselves though

It's just players taking advantage of it

[dire violet]

I don't particularly think investors care how many hours people are spending in ^AFKSimulator (fake room.. hopefully?)

[silk quest]

No, but they can say "With 120M users that spent on average 4 hours online each" or something to the likes.

[dire violet]

But yeah, if RR doesnt make changes to something so it can be abused THAT easily, yeah, I understand why creators are leaving the platform

I've considered learning Lua

granted I dont know if roblox is any better

the more I work on games the more I realise this problem is like, everywhere

The only thing you can hope for is that the company actually does something about it (which they only do if its giving their program a bad name) whilst you continuing working on what you want to until you get popular

It sucks knowing that all of your months of effort can be run into the dirt by 60 games made by 1 creator in the same time making 100x the money, but, if its making the creators of the platform money, they dont care, aslong as its not giving them a bad name :p

[tawdry siren]

Ten hours in total, or one sitting?

[dire violet]

Total

I mean, you could do it in one sitting

If you want the skin, you are going to have to, as it vanishes november 3rd, and its november 2nd

[tawdry siren]

What is the skin?

[dire violet]

Its a "Mythic" skin because it has a unique mesh, particle FX, firing SFX and firing SFX

[tawdry siren]

If I can sit through Golden for 23 hours, I can sit through MurderV2 for 10 hours.

[dire violet]

The game must be running and you cant be AFK

so you need to be actively playing games in public lobbies, or private lobbies with +8 players

[tawdry siren]

I know. I went afk as little as possible.

We played basketball in act eight for like an hour.

[elfin violet]

GODSPEED🫡

💀

[severe yew]

i know why people wanna witch hunt but im not actually aware of any situations with this user that could be considered scamming

[elfin violet]

o

[wise cliff]

i havent either but they've certainly done some very questionable things

[odd abyss]

is it so hard to make ure own thumbnail, like really just photoshop the roblox character away and add a recroom one or smthing it doesnt matter, just dont copyright over peoples art

[sage summit]

i wish i could link the video but it went unlisted and anytime it is posted lil t gaslights mods into thinking that youtube took action against the video thus it shouldn’t be in the server, even though that’s not how it works, the video would have been privated/deleted if that were the case.

[severe yew]

If it’s the beardabear thing, Taconic doesn’t own the room so any co owner removals can’t be blamed on him

Unless he switched it to someone else or something

[sage summit]

little t may have or may have not used an ai to make beardabear look really bad allegedly to get co owner and replace him
if i remember the situation correctly

[lavish kindle]

are creators held responsible for actions outside of the game

is that a thing in the coc

most creators are children having influence on younger children

when they get ahold of power theyre most likely gonna abuse it

thus they should remove every creator that is 17 and below fire them

[sage summit]

nope

[naive hound]

Fr

[lavish kindle]

amazing

gonna be like sssniperwolf and dox people but ill still be able to be a creator and have a platform here

[ionic stirrup]

Where you been sir

[severe yew]

In most cases no

I’m sure things like child abuse or hosting TOS breaking content like hacks get a pass, though. but no, usually if someone does something on discord it doesn’t result in a game ban

[lavish kindle]

intere

not even gonna fix that

[severe yew]

its pretty typical on most platforms. discord isnt going to ban someone for sending a swastika on myspace.

[little stump]

to be fair, discord will hardly ever ban someone for sending a swastika on discord

[severe yew]

oh yeah

[hidden pecan]

Just got to watching this video and I have to say, all of it is true. She mentioned some stuff I didn't know about, and had the same feelings Ive had for at least a full year. Hopefully Rec Room implements some of the changes she talked about.

[silk quest]

I feel like the community goes through this with Rec Room every year about this time especially. It's like they were doing good with communication, talking about upcoming features, and then they just go silent. Then they change something without considering the community feedback, it just happens. Then people complain about it and leave and you start to notice your friends don't log on much. Then, about a year later, you still see some people you know and they are just as disgruntled with all the previous changes, but even more on the new ones. But, they want to hold faith that Rec Room will come around. However, they don't and eventually some of them will leave too.

Then, more time goes by and suddenly Rec Room is doing the "good" stuff again. You see the videos, you see the updates, you think they finally went back to the way they were. So, you come back in, see the changes, you like some of them, but you notice some of the issues as before still haven't changed in 1-7 years. Then, Rec Room stops communicating again. They stop features that you had incentive to participate in and now you are back in the same stage you were when you left several years ago.

Rec Room is like being in a bad relationship. You want to love it, but there are some situations where one might consider abusive. But, then they give you the silent treatment. Ignoring you, making you feel isolated while you see they are still doing stuff for themselves, maybe throwing you some flowers here and there to make you feel like they might come back around. Sometimes, relationships like that are just best to get out of before it really starts to hurt you.

[sage summit]

that’s a harsh but really good analogy. i want the good and i believe the game wants to favor the community over money. but they never fail to prove me wrong in most cases.

[cedar flint]

fr i just ignore what i dont like and do what i like

and also rr is a fairly big company filled with people who went to college to study the thing they do so i trust them more than my own judgement

[severe yew]

do recommend that people take breaks or just straight up stop playing if their mental health is taking a hit

[tawdry siren]

But my daily log in streak!

[sage summit]

b..but i might miss a pop up shop!

[cedar flint]

but i might miss the ajr event!

[low shell]

but i might miss S lore!

[icy karma]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/193073071802941451/1063698188575440970/Screenshot_2.gif

NO DISCUSSING LEAKS

BAN

[little stump]

Real

[elfin violet]

ninja turbo

[dire violet]

me when I come back with a response like 24 hours later

If they wont improve the anti-afk system because it looks good to say there are so many active users, then why have an anti-afk system to begin with?

[naive hound]

Yo mamas house

[coarse yarrow]

Anyone seeing their reports being taken any differently?

Kinda noticed this thread going quiet when the policy was released

Just checked in on the main offenders and haven’t seen any differences, still ripped Roblox thumbnails

[ionic stirrup]

I was just about to ask if anyone has seen any movements in terms of the new thumbnail policy

[formal zodiac]

not too much

[topaz nimbus]

I've seen one, but the funny part is they still involved Copyright infringement in the new Thumbnail lol

[coarse yarrow]

Ticket them again and get the room taken down

That is unless they were the ones who changed their own thumbnail which is likely considering there is still a LOT of obvious violations on the front page

[severe yew]

its demonstrably better

[little stump]

i mean likee

[coarse yarrow]

I see no diffrence

[flat olive]

At least it's not full of ripped Roblox thumbnails or something

We got that going for now

[hidden pecan]

the roblox issue is more or less gone, the next thing is really just quality of the games, which I don't know if the staff can even fix without being creatively limiting

plus even roblox has plenty of issues with rampant low quality games that over monetize to the point of annoyance and detriment to the gameplay. If roblox hasn't had that figured out it probably won't happen here

[tawdry siren]

They can't steal player made rooms from other games.

Boom! Easy way to slightly fix it.

[hidden pecan]

so "if the game has been made before, you can't make it"?

[tawdry siren]

Only if it's from a different social platform, and if it's basically the same, so a Portal inspired Roblox room would need different rooms in Rec Room.

Needs some tweaking.

If it's from something like Roblox there MUST be a noticable differebce.

[hidden pecan]

no way

[tawdry siren]

I still see it.

[hidden pecan]

i used the b word and it deleted the whole paragraph

[tawdry siren]

that would need some pretty heavy wording if they made that rule cause that could definitely limit what players can make which would make the platform more of a BLEEP to use and would cost rec room more revenue

[hidden pecan]

thx

[tawdry siren]

I have to go now.

[flint schooner]

13 silly lil days since i made my ticket on around 14 misleading room thumbnails
pretty much nothing has happened to any

[ionic stirrup]

Have you received a reply of acknowledgment?

[flint schooner]

technically
i was told it was "forwarded to the UGC moderation team"

[hidden pecan]

classic

[elfin violet]

awesome

have tickets even done anything?

I think it was only the creators not wanting to be cashout banned or have their room unpublished

so they changed the thumbnails

[hidden pecan]

def seems that very few tickets have worked

i know frypan knight said his tickets worked

but no one else who reported seems to have said their reported rooms got taken down or punished

[severe yew]

i think so?

[severe yew]

they did, but with conversations with the person who made the cloned rooms, it sounded like he didnt even notice they were removed.

ie he wasnt even warned. Or he was just lying to save face.

Or they didnt actually take them down, and they just happened to be delisted by chance (doubt this happened tho)

they have been taking down the friday night funkin stripper rooms these creators seem to have en masse on their portfolios. But maybe they also still arent even being warned for that? one republisher had 2 stripper rooms each with 200,000 views, and yet that creator was immediately still able to publish rooms after they were delisted.

So maybe there isnt anything fucking happening?

just your typical slap on the wrist ig

[hidden pecan]

classic

[dire violet]

its insane how people are getting away with posting softcore p*rn or even literally just p*rn with 0 consequences

[severe yew]

it was literally nude costumes

200,000 views

[hidden pecan]

god only knows what happens in those rooms

[severe yew]

should clarify yes taking down rooms, thats a start, cool. but how come people can get banned for weeks for drawing dicks on a whiteboard but when you monetize nude costumes and junior tag your room, getting half a million views in the process, basically fostering this weird sexual content aimed at juniors (complete with beds that put the costumes in suggestive positions) you dont even get a month off your creator privileges? imo should be perma?

[hidden pecan]

agreed

[lavish kindle]

it should be jailtime

[sage summit]

moderation truly is something

[coarse yarrow]

Loosing faith

[hidden pecan]

🌚

[tepid flame]

i love the dialogue chip

[elfin violet]

can you clamp it to objects?

I'm gonna make NPC'S

[elfin violet]

I started losing faith when rec room studio was revealed to be more public in July

[north onyx]

Yes you can 🙂

[lament radish]

I really hope rec room is just being goofy and doesn't actually wanna keep those rooms up for profit... right....?

ik keeping a platform and its economy up is hard but corporate priorities always seem to be so off target

[gritty thorn]

Corporate priorities are never off target. Their target is making money.

[lament radish]

it just sucks that the reasons I left making games on roblox are seeping into rec room

[hidden pecan]

real

[clear tangle]

Valid

[dire violet]

truly, it never gets old

[sage summit]

i’m not calling t guy a sociopath but it can’t be normal for someone to lack that much morals

[dire violet]

Most recroom creators aren't doing this becuse they lack morals

They are doing it either because:

• They want to be famous (kids making RR games)
• They have a massive ego and use mental gymnastics to make it okay (anyone old enough to know what they are doing)

Thats why talk to any of these creators and they wont label themselves as bad people, they'll make an excuse as to why what they are doing is okay

[tawdry siren]

Money.

"I make more moeny than you"

[dire violet]

That doesnt make it okay, most of the time thats one of their excuses
"I'm only doing it because it makes me money, I know its stupid" or something

like that doesnt make you a good person

[tawdry siren]

Yeah.

#1170973478090969128 Excuse used here.

[dire violet]

im actually going to delete that message because im pretty sure thats political 🤔

[severe yew]

My ticket reporting certain "escape from" rooms was closed. The ticket responses only assured me that they passed on my feedback to the rooms moderation team.

These rooms all had the same elements:

• Map layout
• Room gameplay
• Room objectives
• Objective locations
• Monster AI
• Same exact monster "model" (that being a JPEG that can be easily swapped out)
• Same experience - run from the JPG, activate the generators to win, if you get caught a JPG pops onto your screen.

Despite this none of the rooms were delisted, except for a skibidi toilet version, which likely got DMCA'd.

If the rooms moderation staff can't understand that these are low effort asset flips, I don't really have much hope. By the time the ticket was closed I had reported 5 of these clones.

[dire violet]

its clearly not an asset flip it uses a different image 🙂 (sarcasm)

[severe yew]

RR certainly seems to think so.

If i posted the rooms here would that be witch hunting? i mean, they arent breaking any rules clearly, so...

[dire violet]

RR is doing a nice job at protecting rooms that are breaking their own rules by ignoring the problem entirely

People are angry
RecRoom says "Okay we'll handle it"
People are happy
RecRoom does jack shit about the problem
Most users are none the wiser about the fact nothing has changed

Good thing they enforce the no-witchunting rule so we cant just copy and paste rooms here that are breaking the rule to see if they'll ever take action

God forbid the moderation team actually has to do their job

Such a disapointment

Might as well make a game on steam, atleast there the valve community team actually cares about their community

[icy karma]

*as long as you don’t mention the number 3

[sage summit]

thing is a lot of creators don’t even use excuses, for instance, the classic “cry about it”

[lavish kindle]

yea pretty much

most of the time they dont care to give a non braindead response

[dire violet]

Alot of these creators dont realise, its not about the money, its about the effort

I am only a rec room creator for the money, I enjoy working on the game and I enjoy creating things, but if I'm not getting paid then I'm not doing it
Whats the difference between me and these creators? I put an insane amount of effort into my work, I do everything to make sure the game plays well, I value my players over whats easy for me, I will always try and do something that feels better for the player even if something else would be easier for me to code something different

[hidden pecan]

The same disease that has plagued AAA gaming franchises for years is now seeping into platforms like roblox and rec room. This disease is called the "how little effort can I put into a product while still making people play and give me money?" virus

franchises like call of duty where they release the same game every year with a new gimmick and somehow people find it interesting enough to buy

how many shooting people in a team deathmatch games need to be made before people get bored?

likewise, how many roblox copy games before these kids grow up and realize its ass?

Unless a plethora of really good homemade games come out on rec room to draw in genuine players who appreciate good games, we'll probably see these awful games plague the play tab until rec room goes bankrupt

[lavish kindle]

all good creators go on strike ez

[hidden pecan]

that's what my hash tag is

No More Games meaning there's no more games on rec room anymore, it's full of products made with the pure incentive of monetization

and No More Games also meaning if we can't fix this we may as well just stop making games and go somewhere else 💀

like a job

A lot of upcoming cash grab creator's don't get that the lowest paying entry level jobs will pay them more in a month than rec room will in their entire tenure

you could work at a sweatshop that pays half of minimum wage and still would be able to flex on a lot of rec room creators

doing this with the idea you'll become rich is so misguided

[lavish kindle]

well i imagine its a lot like youtube where children think they can become rich and famous by creating content but dont realize how much work and luck goes into becoming the famous

[hidden pecan]

exactly

except youtube actually has a better chance than this platform

they're just wasting their time if that's their incentive

like please just leave, go somewhere else, let us make our games in peace

[dire violet]

I just wish recroom was more transparent with their moderation

Tell us what action you are taking

Just telling us "we'll take action" is stupid

I had someone dox one of my friends (A felony offence) and all that happened was that they took their number of of the players bio, not even their fucking name

The moderation in RecRoom is a joke (not sarcasm), I'm so happy they continue to ignore this fact (sarcasm)

[lavish kindle]

if only doxxing was taken more seriously

[lavish kindle]

what do u mean by they got the numbers taken out their bio

[dire violet]

The player put my friends number and name in their bio

RecRoom removed the number, kept the name

Oh and the person had no other consequences other than that

their account is still up 🙂

[lavish kindle]

yayyy

[lavish kindle]

so in theory a serial killer could have a platform on this game

[sage summit]

the serial killer didn’t violate the code of conduct in game you silly goose!

[hidden pecan]

this is very reminiscent of YouTube's old policy of "uhh well did ISIS violate the community guidelines?"

[sage summit]

i don’t feel like i can make any joke here

[hidden pecan]

🌚🙏

[elfin violet]

no fucking way

twas literally his first moderation offense

day after day I start believing more in rec room being all for these creators

good thing my friend gave me this folder

what's an ominous date to do an ominous thing on that will make me ominous

[icy karma]

Tomorrow

[coarse yarrow]

Indie development would be a better gamble than staying on a platform that treats us like shit 🫠

This game needed quality creators to get popular and now that they hit their threshold there’s no need in keeping them happy. Wouldnt be surprised if they let every rule abuser get off free as long as they pull money like Roblox does

[hidden pecan]

real

[wise cliff]

ima do the same thing but refer to him as "T"

[elfin violet]

banned

shit wrong chnanel

umm

discount

[trim zenith]

Anyone know how to go to the very top of the thread?

Without scrolling for an hour

[little stump]

#1156666567434702848 message

[dire violet]

So like, how long should we give recroom to actually start taking action before we just say "fuck it" and leave?

I'm very willing to learn Godot, and I've already started learning C# for unity

I'd be willing to start making games in VRC since its basically RRS but like, better (Udon# has pros and cons vs Cv2)

And the VRC team actually cares about their community 🙂

[coarse yarrow]

I’m going to try rec room for the little cash I can get out of it while learning unreal

[dire violet]

im finishing my projects and then dipping

(Unless recroom actually starts making good decisions)

[silk quest]

VRC doesn't have a base game like RRO, they don't have a single currency that you can earn in game and they pretty much have been UGC all the way since the start. They were also ONLY on VR platforms but, like Rec Room, are now expanding to mobile. Next thing you know, they will be on Xbox and PS.

[dire violet]

I dont see how this relates to my point

[silk quest]

They have different focuses and priorities.

[lavish kindle]

why yes

[dire violet]

RecRoom's priority is clearly not their community

[severe yew]

Platform would just subsist on the low effort content

[lavish kindle]

exactly

[severe yew]

You should send to me for science

[severe yew]

It also doesn’t have monetization iirc

There’s good rr competitors out there besides roblox tho that do have monetization and are growing rapidly

I’m not on the rr doomer train tho and I do recommend people stick around here generally

[coarse yarrow]

Can we get a dev in here to answer why the new policy isnt being reinforced seemingly at all?

If a rule isnt enforced then is it even a rule?

[elfin violet]

No

we can't get a dev in here to answer why the new policy isnt being reinforced

They already fucked up the weekly system because "they needed time to update it"

The person who was meant to work on the new weekly system isn't even part of the company anymore

Star Centurion is the only one who can speak out for us

he's the only one that cares

on the team

[flat olive]

Alright, it looks like people are starting to use this thread for literally whatever at this point.

Please stay on topic or I'll close it / have it closed.

We still do not have an ingame report option. Sending tickets is not good enough to settle with for me. When can we expect an ingame report option for the new rule implemented against these thumbnails?

[hidden pecan]

Yeah it's really just talking about whatever problems need to tackled next and if this issue is even going to be resolved

Someone make seperate threads about seperate issues so we can talk and rally there

[rustic shard]

I’ll like to say, just because people want something to be done about the Roblox thumbnails, low-effort rooms, or just anything you think is wrong, doesn’t give the right to witch hunt. I’ve had to remove messages who have been about or hint about an specific player, and you know who I’m talking about as their name has been mentioned or shown in pictures many times.

You’re allowed to give feedback about the moderation problems, how low effort rooms have taken over the hot page or play page in general, creators just pushing out low effort maps for turns of profit, etc etc, but pointing out specific rooms or players, goes against the rules. I agree that some moderation should be taken and players who have broken the creator code of conduct and code of conduct in general, should see consequences. As we or some know, Support doesn’t handle moderation reports through discord which we have to report through in-game or an ticket about it. As Phil said, let’s keep on the main topic of what this thread is.

I understand that when you see people do bad things, you want something to be done, have consequences to their action, if it’s just breaking the rules, hacking, inappropriate content, scamming, etc, and hopefully people who do break the rules, or hack, or create rooms with inappropriate content, or scam others have action taken against them, and the best we can do is report it through an ticket or in game depending how it’s best to send in a report. Witch hunting isn’t the answer. You can say like “People scamming others need to have some consequences because it isn’t right, and people lose things from it”. But you can’t say “This player is scamming others people, they need to get banned, their name is-“ You know what I’m saying?

TL;DR - Don’t witch hunt, you are allowed to give constructive criticism about moderation and the state of Rec Room, report people through in game or Zendesk. I understand that someone do bad thing, people would want the someone to be faced with their actions, witch hunting isn’t the answer. Remember to stay on topic of the thread as Phil said

[coarse yarrow]

My constructive criticism about moderation is that they should actually be doing their jobs so we wouldn't have to witch hunt these people.

[astral matrix]

I agree

[astral matrix]

this man right here, you sir. YOU
Couldn't have said this any better

To me it appears that the moderation team is currently enforcing a rule to help the people that break these "rules" against people who slander them more than these new creator code of conduct "rules"

Good job team

Once again recommending tickets to solve an issue that wasn't solved and never will be solved with tickets

[hidden pecan]

reality

at this point vigilantism seems like the only answer because it seems for every room that gets taken down 5 more show

the creators themselves aren't getting punished it seems

the rooms are getting punished

and even that is debatable based on reports of tickets not being responded to

[topaz nimbus]

When there are 0 repercussions for a crime, why follow the rules? You won't get in trouble

[little stump]

real thats why i jaywalk and pirate movies

[sage summit]

especially since a lot of the people create masses of these rooms, even removing one wouldn’t do much if there are so many others

[grizzled timber]

Okay is it really witch hunting if we talk about a publicly known person contributing to a publicly known problem and still have it count as witch-hunting?

As far as Ive seen, there has never been any talk on mass-reporting or mass-harassment of any player, which is by definition witch-hunting. What isnt witch-hunting is mentioning them, it's just supression. The amount of these thumbnails produced by the same people is just baffling and frustrating, I got on today for the first time in a whole ass month and saw just how prominent these thumbnails are either straight up from roblox or a borderline recreation

Im honestly quite frustrated with the moderation for witch-hunting because it's enforced more often than not just someone saying they dont like said person or something theyve done. That's it. To me it looks as if any kind of negative perspective on someone shared in this server is immediately shot down and deleted, criticism or not

[dire violet]

Punish the people causing the problem? ❌
Punish the people publicizing the problem? ✅
-rec room moderation team

[grizzled timber]

Im aware there are so many tickets and moderation has to manually review them, but at this point get new and/or more people involved with moderation. It is absurd how bad it has been for ages and the lack of effort towards stopping these creators from profiting off of such cheap effort is all too frustrating

[sage summit]

no it isn’t but that’s what rec room calls it, thus it is

[hidden pecan]

RR staff when I say I love ||REDACTED PLAYER|| 😍
RR staff when I point out ccoc violations by ||REDACTED PLAYER|| 👿

[flat olive]

This is not helping, guys.

You are much better off reporting those people directly when they do wrong instead of finding someone else to blame in here. Send tickets, report ingame. Don't go in here blaming staff who had literally nothing to do with any of it. This is the reason why we get nothing done.

[astral matrix]

if the staff aren't supposed to staff a very important part of rec room, then why are they staff?

[lavish kindle]

wouldnt the support team be involved with moderation

since theyre in charge of it

[astral matrix]

what do staff do then

[lavish kindle]

depends what job they have

[hidden pecan]

are the support team not staff

[lavish kindle]

support team is staff

but not all staff deal with moderation

[flat olive]

Not all of them do the same thing. Also iirc the only staff that answered this chat aren't in the department that handles this issue. Don't throw this on bystanders who could potentially be on your side.

[astral matrix]

what staff takes care of things lik this

pretty useless question coming from me actually nvm

even if we dm them on discord they will tell us to make a ticket

[flat olive]

As you should 🤦‍♂️

[astral matrix]

the tickets don't amount to anything

It's up the creative team if they feel like it

[flat olive]

What?

No

The creative team doesn't decide these things

I'm chiming out, this is stupid. I made my case. We need an ingame report option. I will not help anyone here zero out someone responsible, that doesn't get us anywhere. We want this changed, not someone to blame.

[lavish kindle]

what

[severe yew]

no but you can!

https://recroom.zendesk.com/

[rustic shard]

Yeah I should’ve said in my essay message that I mean both actual definition and Rec Room’s definition of witch hunting

[coarse yarrow]

I find it hard to not to at least tease the people running moderation. It takes all of 5 minutes to open the new page and start shotgunning the rooms that obviously break the new rules. There isn’t any investigation or ticket required when you come across these thumbnails

[lavish kindle]

they should be doing more than just taking down a room their monetizing privileges should be taken since thats the main reason those rooms exist

take away their earnings and the rooms will vanish like magic

[hidden pecan]

yep

[dire violet]

Take down the room? Thats only one of hundreds that creator has made
Take their earnings away? That creator stops because they have no reason to do it anymore

If you abuse the system, temporary earnings ban, duration longer with each ban

[astral matrix]

ok

[astral matrix]

It's up the people on the team that enforce the creator code of conduct, unfortunately it looks like they either don't exist or will only enforce the creator code of conduct if they feel like it

[hidden pecan]

i need that shirt

[astral matrix]

they haven't responded. Another 100,000 tokens for the creators

if the video gets deleted because woo hoo moderation team am i right, then I'ma just assume you guys are being paid

because I already know creators pay rec room mods to keep them safe from bans so they can afk anywhere and spam invite everyone on their friends list, safe from people unmasking who they really are, and making sure their rooms are on the hot tab

This isn't even my video

[potent glen]

wait so it's true?

[potent glen]

yeah definetly

[potent glen]

It looks like it

wtf

[astral matrix]

that's for you to find

[astral matrix]

why do you say so

I'm interested

[potent glen]

My friend got blackmailed in this server and it took the mods 2 hours to delete all the messages with his information,
but it takes meer seconds for proof of people comitting real crimes to be deleted

[astral matrix]

crimes...>?

?*

ooohhh

yeah

[potent glen]

we should take this to dms bfor we get timed out because the moderation

[astral matrix]

yeah this will probably be our last messages for a while

[lavish kindle]

that sounds like a conspiracy theory

would be huge if you had concrete proof

[tawdry siren]

no

[ionic stirrup]

We don’t get paid lol

[lavish kindle]

big shocker

[ionic stirrup]

I’m usually complaining about token prices haha

[lavish kindle]

thought there was an underground creators and vmods exchange

[flat olive]

No, prove me wrong.

[lavish kindle]

prove what

[flat olive]

That this exists

[lavish kindle]

it doesnt

[flat olive]

I guess the burden of proof is on this lad

[ionic stirrup]

“Trust me bruh”

[flat olive]

Source: I made it up Okay but in all seriousness, if that is actually a thing I need to know

[lavish kindle]

they delete the witch hunting videos cuz they have to its precautions

police do the same thing they take precautions when protecting certain criminals its cuz they have to

doesnt mean theyre working with them

[ionic stirrup]

It really isn’t that hard to black out creators names. If you want to share something about the map.

I think that’s all we are asking is that you all do not name drop or discuss the player in negative light.

Also giving nicknames to those players will also result in an infraction.

[coarse yarrow]

I’m just going to start calling that guy “him”. Does that count?

[ionic stirrup]

“A player” “players are” “there’s a player”
Theses are better imo

[coarse yarrow]

Alright everyone A player is now the official name for

[rustic shard]

Where’s my money?

I haven’t heard or seen creators trying to pay us to “protect them from bans”. Even if they were to pay us and we accept it and “protect them”, no matter what anyone does, they will still get consequences. We don’t control who gets banned or not lol

[severe yew]

people make up the darndest things instead of just simply not witch hunting

[hidden pecan]

by probability there definitely is at least one mod doing something like this

at least just being lame in general

[lavish kindle]

free money

[rustic shard]

If there was one, the creator who was paying them will be paying them by doing nothing. VMods can’t protect people from being banned. We can’t just say “No, not this player”. If someone reports the player, staff sees it and see it’s an valid report, the person will or may have consequences

[lavish kindle]

theyre paying vmods for the thought of being safer

paying for delusion

[little stump]

just like chiropathy

[dire violet]

"Players are good at pointing out whats wrong, but shit at pointing out why"

Its not that recroom is paying mods or vice versa to be safe from bans, its just that recroom moderation is shit

[astral matrix]

Not just vmods

[lavish kindle]

who else

if you say staff

i am recoiling out my chair

[astral matrix]

higher ups

people who can unlock a player's crendtials

[lavish kindle]

what

[astral matrix]

people that can basically be devs, or are devs

[lavish kindle]

so staff

[astral matrix]

devs we don't hear from

[lavish kindle]

do you have proof of this happening

[astral matrix]

not in the way you would really think about it

[lavish kindle]

amazing

[flat olive]

#1156666567434702848 message

Now get back to the damn topic or before I forget my manners

[astral matrix]

My source is that there have been no repercussions against these people

[little stump]

everyone knows that a lack of action by rec room must mean a secret underground cult!!

[lavish kindle]

obviously