Draft | Smogon | Page 8

untold crag Sep 12, 2025, 4:29 PM

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What would ur 6 be

rancid kestrel Sep 12, 2025, 4:30 PM

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MAero, Thundy, Victini, Suicune, Necrozma, Skeledirge

untold crag Sep 12, 2025, 4:30 PM

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kk

rancid kestrel Sep 12, 2025, 4:32 PM

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TBC - this is what I would bring. I highly value defensive cores and access to hazards, which can cloud my matchup prep judgment. I would not take my picks as gospel for you, though I do think it's a good start for sure.

untold crag Sep 12, 2025, 4:33 PM

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Yeh yeh

ember knot Sep 12, 2025, 4:33 PM

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rancid kestrel MAero, Thundy, Victini, Suicune, Necrozma, Skeledirge

Cb mamoswine is free no?

untold crag Sep 12, 2025, 4:33 PM

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goat is here

ember knot Sep 12, 2025, 4:33 PM

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Or smth like a sword dance mamo

rancid kestrel Sep 12, 2025, 4:34 PM

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Ye, hence what I was saying about my predilictions - Mamo's strong here for sure with prediction, it just probably wouldn't be on my final team preview.

ember knot Sep 12, 2025, 4:34 PM

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His faster mons are all ice shard weak and his only revenge is rlly metagross or breloom mach punch

untold crag Sep 12, 2025, 4:34 PM

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Ye

ember knot Sep 12, 2025, 4:34 PM

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rancid kestrel Ye, hence what I was saying about my predilictions - Mamo's strong here for sure...

Doesnt mamo have more value in this mu?

rancid kestrel Sep 12, 2025, 4:35 PM

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There's no right or wrong in Draft. What you bring is going to depend on the value you see and how you want to play the game.

ember knot Sep 12, 2025, 4:36 PM

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ember knot Doesnt mamo have more value in this mu?

Than dirge

rancid kestrel Sep 12, 2025, 4:37 PM

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I'm also not claiming to be perfect or infalliable, this is my third message saying I prefer a specific type of team and playstyle in Draft and that's how I think about the game. There's a reason in my messages I word things like "I would bring" or "If I were your opponent" - because in the end, the person playing the game and building the team are going to have their own thoughts and preferences.

ember knot Sep 12, 2025, 4:37 PM

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Personally im just looking at a bunch of mons that beat dirge and dirge doesn't wanna come in on. Apart from like breloom and wisp isn't horrible but victini can do that better

ember knot Sep 12, 2025, 4:37 PM

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rancid kestrel I'm also not claiming to be perfect or infalliable, this is my third message say...

Yeah ofc ofc

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Nothing wrong with ur picks

untold crag Sep 12, 2025, 7:23 PM

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@rancid kestrel i won 5-0

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ended up using autotomize power herb necro

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which cleared few mons

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then ddance aero cleared rest

rancid kestrel Sep 12, 2025, 7:24 PM

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Good stuff, congratulations!

untold crag Sep 12, 2025, 7:25 PM

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thanks

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and i did end up going vic bc of ur advice which helped against his breloom

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so ye

lofty wigeon Sep 12, 2025, 7:56 PM

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Was this person the same position in the other pool as you too ?

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just curious

untold crag Sep 12, 2025, 8:30 PM

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lofty wigeon Was this person the same position in the other pool as you too ?

Uh it not like a normal draft league

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Format

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we got 3 boxes of mons

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Everyone chooses 3 from each

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and people can have same picks

untold crag Sep 14, 2025, 12:06 PM

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@rancid kestrel

misty plumeBOT Sep 14, 2025, 12:06 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rancid kestrel Sep 14, 2025, 2:21 PM

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untold crag

I like your opponent's team. A wide range of powerful threats that, mostly while alone are not particularly effective, can be difficult to handle when you're needing to check every single one of them. Some of their mons are not great, but they're all bringable to some games.
Their speed tiers are alright, better than yours IMO but not standout incredible. They're bunched a ton around the sweet spot of 110-90, but half of those mons being in the 100-90 range isn't normally ideal. It works fine into yours, though their lack of ability to outpace your Sala/Tini is going to be a pain for like, Hydrei. Could see scarf Hydrei or Vic again.
Their hazards aren't great. Sure, GWeez can set TSpikes, but you have a ton of levitating 'mons that come with Defog. And then it's some mons who'd rather not carry Rocks - all three can, but it's going to be twisted arms figuring out how to bring rocks weekly. Their hazard removal is pretty good as well.
If I'm them, I see a Terrakion and no rock resists and a buncha weaknesses on your lineup. Maybe scarf to just outspeed everything, but you could also see double dance or Band or whatever. I frankly don't know how you respond to rock-spamming Terrak, it looks terrifying. Some kinda Charti Wisp Skeledirge could maybe do it, but that's a lot of pressure onto an 85% accurate move that isn't even like, fully "oh problem solved".

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I also like Thund into you, you have some responses to Electric but they aren't the best (Mamo and Hydrei can't heal). If Terrak's the scarfer, they prob don't need scarf Vic or Hydrei, but I'm also not convinced it's a difficult bring into you. One of those, but probably not both.
I think Suicune and GWeezing come here. The latter can answer your dragons and the former can be a good special answer into Skele, Nec, Hydrei, your own Suicune, some Victini...
Leaves one slot left. We don't have hazards, so maybe a utility Hydrei if it's Victini? Could also put in MAgg and just not bother with removal. Or maybe removal is Thundy? I like that actually, yeah.
For you, I don't actually know how you respond to Terrakion. 252/252+ Suicune avoids the 3HKO from Scarf, but can't heal or really threaten back, because it just switches out for later. Even a fully defensive Intim Salamence gets 2HKO'd by Stone Edge. Thundy can Prankster TWave, but even then that's like, okay it's still a threat, it's just slower.

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Let's say the response is a fully physdef Nec. It can heal, SEdge only does 34 max if it's Jolly Scarf... Sure. It's something. And hey, it can bring Rocks. Yay.
Their own rock resists are all weak to ground. MAero goes hard here once the scarfer is found. They are also lacking in good electric resistances, and ThundyI is just useful in general, so let's start that as our core.
Three mons left. I could see Suicune coming as a response to the ton of aggressive physical attackers they have alongside Nec, Dirge has some level of response to their special attackers, though it isn't perfect. Salamence, Victini, and Hydrei can all be a scarfer here, whichever you pick will be up to you I think - I probably pick Salamence here, 4x resist to FImp on the scarfer seems useful. Mamoswine doesn't have as good a matchup here, but it can function as a mini MAero w.r.t. its coverage range?
If I'm playing this, I bring Nec, MAero, Thundy, Salamence, Dirge, and Suicune. That's not to say that's what you should bring, but that's what I would do personally.

untold crag Sep 14, 2025, 2:42 PM

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main thing im scared is there lokix and hydreigon

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Just hitting for free

rancid kestrel Sep 14, 2025, 2:43 PM

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That's fair. I'm not as scared of Lokix personally, but Hydrei is a good 'mon yeah.

untold crag Sep 14, 2025, 2:44 PM

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Lokix band first impression

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just does a ton to a lot

rancid kestrel Sep 14, 2025, 2:47 PM

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-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Salamence: 162-192 (48.9 - 58%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO

thats w/ 0 investment and ada band

untold crag Sep 14, 2025, 2:49 PM

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Ah

frigid crater Sep 14, 2025, 6:01 PM

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need help building my pokemon in showdown

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/building team

rancid kestrel Sep 14, 2025, 6:02 PM

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Hi, who's your opponent?

frigid crater Sep 14, 2025, 6:11 PM

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Just need to build

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Them

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Alot of apponents

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Lol

rancid kestrel Sep 14, 2025, 6:14 PM

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Are you not allowed to change your team, moves, items, etc between opponents?

spare relic Sep 14, 2025, 8:39 PM

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Update on the match: ended up winning using trick room cheese, although I did get a bit lucky in the process.

https://pokepast.es/1700e92efc239319

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9draft-871367

[Gen 9] Draft: siroperation vs. Brayz - Replays - Pokémon Showdown!

Watch a replay of a Pokémon battle between siroperation and Brayz! Format: [Gen 9] Draft; Date: Sep 14, 2025

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You were bang on about the opponent though.

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Thanks for the advice

rancid kestrel Sep 14, 2025, 8:43 PM

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Happy to help, glad my advice was within expected range!

frigid crater Sep 15, 2025, 12:24 AM

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rancid kestrel Are you not allowed to change your team, moves, items, etc between opponents?

the tera i have

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is the two listed

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but any mon

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besides mega

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can tera

rancid kestrel Sep 15, 2025, 12:27 AM

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Okay, first things first
AGAIN: Send your messages in a single thought. Send a single message explaining what you want to say, do not send five messages to say one thing.
Secondly: If you can change your team between games with each opponent, then in Draft you build a new team for each opponent. We can't help you without knowing what your opponent's options are.

solemn warren Sep 15, 2025, 4:59 PM

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frigid crater need help building my pokemon in showdown

15 mons seems a lot

weary ibex Sep 15, 2025, 7:20 PM

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So this is what I am considering, the only pokemon on there team that can mega is metagross btw, my only worry is alot of bullet punches.... Looking at the team I see them going either trick room or tailwind, but I do find tailwind maybe a bit more likely. I dont think they have a good way to shut down weather unless I am missing something. My main plan is to go Whims Torkoal, or Whims Charizard. But I am not 100% sure...

misty plumeBOT Sep 15, 2025, 7:20 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

weary ibex Sep 15, 2025, 7:20 PM

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@cerulean aspen (Sorry for the @ you are the only person that seems to maybe understand older gens to a point)

solemn warren Sep 15, 2025, 7:54 PM

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Mega zard + Venusaur seems really good

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Flamethrower + Heat Wave on Zard doesn't seem very good

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Trick specs can absolutely demolish walls in Skarmory, Swampert and Ferrothorn

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A potential priority Tailwind with their Talonflame seems dangerous

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Weavile Fake Out COULD prevent this and allow a follow-up but I'm unsure where you'd slot em

spare relic Sep 15, 2025, 10:10 PM

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Yea it’s not really looking good for me, opponent prob has the better sun team

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I’m the one on the right btw

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With the R1 groundon

rancid kestrel Sep 15, 2025, 11:31 PM

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Giving myself a fifteen minute timer on this bc NDUbers is wildly different from standard play and I don't have a ton of time this evening.

Dunno where your Arceus is. Your team doesn't look good enough to not have an Arceus which is worrying. You exchanged it with what, some 'mons that can't really ever come?
127 101 is rough. Even with the Sun stuff you've got going on, that's a lotta things that are going to outspeed you. Scarf Wake looks real hard for you to respond to, what genuinely is a response to Scarf Hydro Steam?
You have like, no hazard removal. It's really just Defog on Moltres. IDK how you did that in NDUbers. At least you have a theoretical TSpikes absorber even if it can't really ever come to any game - for context, 252+ Life Orb Sludge Bomb is a less than 50% chance to OHKO completely uninvested Xerneas. You just aren't dealing damage.
I couldn't possibly predict what will come in this context, I'm sorry. My guess would be best mons - IDK how you knock out a well played Giratina besides ChiYu or KyuB. You lack a ton of Rock resists that don't fold to EQ, so if Arceus ever gets off a DD, I dunno what the response is. Defensive Groudon? Surely Xern comes, it's gotta be near mandatory even into fire/steel types of yours.
From there, I like a Scarf Wake, I like Thundy to maybe switch the weather, I could see Victini taking advantage of the weather... I dunno. Speculation.
For you, does really feel like you need to lean into the sun - Groudon, Mane, scarf ChiYu, I'd probably bring Dialga and Phero as just good mons, then like... Victini? Moltres for removal? Probably one of those two.

spare relic Sep 16, 2025, 12:10 AM

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rancid kestrel Giving myself a fifteen minute timer on this bc NDUbers is wildly different from...

Yea no arceus was a throw, I think I used my points on sandy shocks and mega mawile cuz someone told me it could be a good knock absorber and sandy shocks upgrades my hazard stacking game a little bit. I prob should have got fire arceus over victini+venu(forgot how much points exactly)

I think my speed tiers are alright? Phermosa(151) and flutter mane(135) are pretty fast and phermosa will pretty much be the fastest unboosted Mon on the field. Scarf xern will be pretty darn scary I will prob have trouble playing around that. There is also shaymin sky(127) that does have potential to be bringable too.

I’m guessing flutter mane can pressure giratina maybe?? If I run specs? I guess I’m lucky it doesn’t have much reliable recovery.

This will probably be sun vs sun as my opponent also has his little sun thingy with wake and groundon

rancid kestrel Sep 16, 2025, 12:12 AM

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The problem is less about "im faster" and more about every single 'mon within 126 and 102 or whatever able to invest in bulk or damage via nature or EVs bc they dont try to outspeed Skymin or any of the Chloro/Proto mons but also don't need full investment to outspeed non-boosted Shocks.

spare relic Sep 16, 2025, 12:14 AM

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Hmm ic, that’s makes more sense

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I will definitely lean to a more HO based style

rancid kestrel Sep 16, 2025, 12:17 AM

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Like, for example, every single Arceus you face doesn't need to run anything more than 224 Speed (or 104+) to outspeed your Shocks outside of sun/without booster speed, and never even needs to bother trying to outspeed your Shaymin Sky or FMane. That's a lot of EVs or a nature going into mixed sets, bulk, what have you.

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But yeah, your team is for sure set up for HO, so it may be that they respond in some way w/ Sneasler+Rilla since Unburden/Glide can work to dismantle HO. Though, Glide looks bad into you.

spare relic Sep 16, 2025, 12:20 AM

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Damn I might regret picking venusaur though I didn’t think it would that weak.

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I probably get much more utility in a cheap Mon like leavanny that can at least set webs in sun

rancid kestrel Sep 16, 2025, 12:21 AM

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It's NDUbers - you're going to have a lot of fishy things that serve purpose only in one or two matchups. Venusaur's fine, it's just going to need a turn to get Growth off to really start pumping out damage.

spare relic Sep 16, 2025, 12:22 AM

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Hmm ic

rancid kestrel Sep 16, 2025, 12:26 AM

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I also wouldn't have been so motivated by webs - it's NDUbers, most everyone is going to have 3-5 Defog options on average. Now, mind you, I have a Ribombee on my team, so it's not like I'm following my own advice, but, removal (Defog particularly) is gonna be real common on most every team you face. I wouldn't mourn something you never had, because frankly, I've got it and it's never likely coming.

solemn warren Sep 16, 2025, 11:41 AM

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spare relic Yea it’s not really looking good for me, opponent prob has the better sun team

Welp that's a Sneasler

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GG shake my hand

spare relic Sep 16, 2025, 11:43 AM

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solemn warren Welp that's a Sneasler

True 💔💔

frigid crater Sep 16, 2025, 12:31 PM

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Im willing to pay 10$ for spmone to help me build 15 pokemon in showdown from my draft league that I picked and I would just go over in call how I plan on using them and names ect

solemn warren Sep 16, 2025, 12:48 PM

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Dude you don't need to pay

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Just

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What do you have

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What does your opponent have

untold crag Sep 16, 2025, 4:47 PM

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Yeh

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just show us what pokemons your opponent has

jade solar Sep 19, 2025, 3:34 PM

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very important matchup. need a win to make playoffs, and a big win (4-0 or more) secures me POs w/o any math involved as i'm 3-4 +1 rn. https://pokepast.es/076187244faad1fe made this team so far, would love some help on this MU

misty plumeBOT Sep 19, 2025, 3:34 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rancid kestrel Sep 19, 2025, 3:35 PM

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when's the match? friday posting makes me think you need this in a day or two but the earliest time i probably can get you anything is gonna be like, sunday

jade solar Sep 19, 2025, 3:39 PM

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rancid kestrel when's the match? friday posting makes me think you need this in a day or two bu...

it's on sunday night for me the game

rancid kestrel Sep 19, 2025, 3:39 PM

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I'll try to find time today. It'll probably just be a quick paste review since I trust you've reviewed most of the things I end up looking at in my rambles anyway.

jade solar Sep 19, 2025, 3:40 PM

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alright

rancid kestrel Sep 19, 2025, 8:37 PM

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jade solar very important matchup. need a win to make playoffs, and a big win (4-0 or more)...

Is there value in Drain Punch on Rilla if it's expecting to take a beating from PopBomb? IG HHP helps for Qwil/Eleki.
I assume all the EVs are correct? That's a lotta speed on an unburden Sneasler - Scarf Pult prep?
If you're CM Booster SpA, is DMeteor not just better? Sure, 10% chance of miss, but you boost up the damage a ton at not a lot of cost comparative.

Nothing else really sticks out to me as something I'd want to change here.

untold crag Sep 20, 2025, 12:22 AM

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im subbing in for kaneki so dont question the picks 😭 @rancid kestrel z and tera are free

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Tera on the 2 caps

rancid kestrel Sep 20, 2025, 12:34 AM

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when is this game being played @untold crag? i probably dont have time to put thoughts together until monday if this isnt super urgent. if it is ugent then i can put some shitty quick thoughts togehter

untold crag Sep 20, 2025, 12:34 AM

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rancid kestrel when is this game being played <@1150383551242588250>? i probably dont have time...

I can get extension

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so uh take ur time

rancid kestrel Sep 20, 2025, 12:34 AM

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dont get an extension for rmt advice

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when is the game due

untold crag Sep 20, 2025, 12:34 AM

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O

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Tommorow

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Like 22 hrs

rancid kestrel Sep 20, 2025, 12:35 AM

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christ

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ok

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lemme put together a few thoughts

untold crag Sep 20, 2025, 12:35 AM

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Kk

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Thanks

rancid kestrel Sep 20, 2025, 12:43 AM

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untold crag im subbing in for kaneki so dont question the picks 😭 <@129787659777212416> z a...

dunno what your reply is gonna be to a kyurem, id figure that out quick. doublade prob doesnt cut it.
their response to iv is gonna be what, hqwil? ditto cant combat it bc it doesnt copy qd boosts.
pecharunt seems real good here, but i havent run the calcs.
their scarfer/speed control kinda doesnt exist. is it hzoro? tornt? lol, not great. i like your iv here, it outspeeds basically everything and can prob 2hko everything.
tornt w/o tera seems not great. maybe z move can help it.
i dont like their hazard setting, it's kinda all on tusk and tusk really doesnt wanna play ball w/ ferro.
if im them i bring z tornt, scarf horo, sub kyurem, sd mmawile, and 2 defensive mons that can respond to hydrei/iv/ogerh. prob slowking and tangrowth? tho maybe mawile doesnt come into pecha ogerh doublade ferro. can drop it and bring tusk.
if im you i bring booster speed setup iv, scarf hydrei, ferro, pecharunt, and then whatever two more mons you think work best here. in my mind it's ogerh and cyclizar, but i can see arguments for mswamp or doublade. florges is harder to see.

untold crag Sep 20, 2025, 2:43 PM

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rancid kestrel - dunno what your reply is gonna be to a kyurem, id figure that out quick. doubl...

Kk thanks

ember knot Sep 20, 2025, 5:18 PM

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untold crag im subbing in for kaneki so dont question the picks 😭 <@129787659777212416> z a...

U got this

untold crag Sep 20, 2025, 5:44 PM

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ember knot U got this

Yesir

untold crag Sep 20, 2025, 10:44 PM

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rancid kestrel - dunno what your reply is gonna be to a kyurem, id figure that out quick. doubl...

I won 4-0

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https://pokepast.es/870e7b7dcd038951

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Ended up using this

misty plumeBOT Sep 20, 2025, 10:44 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rancid kestrel Sep 20, 2025, 10:45 PM

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Tada, gz!

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:36 PM

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I need help picking a team for my schools draft league on smogon

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:37 PM

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Hi, @carmine dragon can you provide more information? Do you have a sheet link for your tournament you can share with us?

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:37 PM

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rancid kestrel Hi, <@290593727913787393> can you provide more information? Do you have a sheet ...

Yes

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So I have a 100 points

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I got the tierlists

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misty plumeBOT Sep 21, 2025, 6:38 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:39 PM

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Please share the sheet link, we're not going to be able to see info in such huge images.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:39 PM

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ClXD0mAQZ1VLS0BCZFAsXlC44vPsjCLs-uunMHuDvqc/edit?usp=sharing

Google Docs

VCU Fall 2025 Tier List

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my bad

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So my first picks were dumb obviously

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:39 PM

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Additionally, the rules of the league are going to be very helpful in determining a number of things, so that'll be needed too.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:39 PM

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I can swap them out

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You will have 100 points to draft a total of 11 Pokemon.
We will first go around and draft a single of the restricted Pokemon, Cosmog and Cosmoem will give you bonus points if you pick them.
Then we will do a snake draft order for picking Pokemon! (1st,2nd,3rd, etc then 3rd, 2nd, 1st)
After the draft you will have until everyone has finished drafting and a few extra days to do trades in the trades channel! (You can either trade with the sheet or other people for free)
After the grace period you only get 3 free trades, then each one past that will cost an additional 3 points. (Getting a 10 point pokemon will cost 13 instead)
Finally Tera Captain Rules! After you draft you will choose one pokemon you have drafted and declare 3 types. Those are the 3 tera types it can have and one of those must be a STAB type (same as one of its typings). Only one pokemon per team can tera and must choose one of those types each time!

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They skipped my picks

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Because I was holding on for a long time

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:41 PM

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Which team are you?

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:41 PM

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They told me I can make the team

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Yveltal (25)

Metagross (16)

Rotom-Wash (16)

Volcarona (20)

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I had this

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:41 PM

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The bonus points are not worth it if you ask me

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:41 PM

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I can remove them

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:41 PM

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Are you starting from scratch now?

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:41 PM

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Yeah

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:42 PM

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formal haven The bonus points are not worth it if you ask me

Definitely not

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:42 PM

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What are the Z-Move rules

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:42 PM

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And Tera rules for that matter

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:43 PM

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Finally Tera Captain Rules! After you draft you will choose one pokemon you have drafted and declare 3 types. Those are the 3 tera types it can have and one of those must be a STAB type (same as one of its typings). Only one pokemon per team can tera and must choose one of those types each time!

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:43 PM

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She never mentioned anything about z moves

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:43 PM

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So uhm.... from what I can see Tera Shedninja is legal

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:43 PM

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the host

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:43 PM

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Its a funky cheese option

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:44 PM

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I would clarify before much of anything whether that means no Z-Moves or free Z-Moves

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:44 PM

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^^

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:44 PM

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True

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I just dmed her

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:45 PM

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I do see omniboosts as specific ban, so maybe the rest is legal

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Honestly im tempted to just say you should pick Caly-S

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:46 PM

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As for your restricted option. Yveltal's fine. The 35 mons are better, there's not much better in 25 IMO, 20 and lower are probably not worth taking over Yveltal. If you have full free do-over, I'd take one of the 35s and call it a day. Remember, you have 100 points, yes, but you also only get to bring 6 mons a game, so like, having an incredible 'mon like CalyS or Miraidon is quite useful.

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Alakazam Mega, Dragapult, and Salamence Mega seem really strong for 20. Most other things there are super not worth it. A lot of 19 18 17 all have the same problem of being super overpriced - Hatterene is not a 19 point Pokemon, for example.

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:48 PM

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I prefer CalyS over Miraidon, especially because the best defensive answer is already a restricted mon. Further more people underestimate its utility movepool, getting the fastest encore in the game on a nasty setup sweeper is insane. Also if you check the other rules, CalyS is allowed to be your tera captain which is truly insane

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:48 PM

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rancid kestrel Alakazam Mega, Dragapult, and Salamence Mega seem really strong for 20. Most oth...

I noticed this too, I was shocked when I saw Espathra at 20 points

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:48 PM

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Yeah

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A lot of it is overpriced

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:48 PM

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People are terrified of Tera Espathra. Rillaboom's the real shocker to me.

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How many Pokemon must you draft?

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:48 PM

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Her goal was to use weaker pokemon in our teams

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I got the option to draft up to 11

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Some players have 11 in their team

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:49 PM

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What is the minimum?

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:49 PM

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No minimum mentioned

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:49 PM

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Cause honestly if you are allowed to draft 8 I would

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:49 PM

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11 max

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11 is the final limit

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:50 PM

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Especially with how many mons are overpriced, just getting a very strong base 4/5 with some rotationary options seems like the way to go for me

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:50 PM

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It is very overpriced

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she did this to avoid meta

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Lmao

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I mean, I like a challenge

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Weavile at 16 is absurd

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:54 PM

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Yeah, just overload on top level talent and go for as few as possible. Spectrier is a good start, here's some things I would encourage you to make sure you find in your draft by the end

Two ways of setting Stealth Rock, Spikes, two ways of removing hazards (ideally, 'mons that are happy to run it - Landorus-Incarnate doesn't want to run Defog, for example)
A Pokemon at or faster than 135 base Speed, a Pokemon at 120, 110, 100, and 90. This Pokemon should be able to run speed - Lugia is not a good 110, as an example. The order of importance here is 110 -> 120 -> 100 -> 90 -> 135. These don't have to be specific the numbers, but you should be aiming around there.
A way to take hits from Psychic, Dragon, Fairy, Ground, Electric, and Flying-type attacks. Whether it's immunities, blobby defensive Pokemon, or just a good enough resistance, you will be unhappy handling a Lati@s, a Tapu, a Therian, or something like it, if you don't have easy switchins.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:55 PM

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the banlist says no onmi-boosting z-crystals whatever that means

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:55 PM

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okay

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so free z-moves but no omniboosting ones

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:55 PM

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Yeah

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:55 PM

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wild but not super out of expectation

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Hydreigon at 15 seems like a good price, it's an amazing Choice Scarf user, has a good speed tier, and that's about where it'd be normally anyway.

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:57 PM

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I also like the pricing on Cinderace at 16 on this board. Maybe 1 point above where I would slot it, but it gives you a great speedtier for Caly and a pivot to get it in

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:58 PM

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So Z moves are good, just non omniboost ones

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:58 PM

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Scream Tail at 13 can do a lot of good, and that's a reasonable price for it.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:58 PM

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omniboost is illegal

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So how would i choose my team

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Just got back into comp since XY

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Im so out of touch

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 6:58 PM

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That'll be up to you. There are very few wrong answers in draft - how you want to play and what you find motivating is what'll be best for you.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 6:59 PM

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Im relearning almost everything

formal haven Sep 21, 2025, 6:59 PM

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Actually at 13 there are a lot of good mons, Tail, Scizor, Mence, Pecha, QuagQuag, Nihil all seem like good value at that spot

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:00 PM

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rancid kestrel That'll be up to you. There are very few wrong answers in draft - how you want t...

I like to very attacking and menacing

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thats my goal

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Like black air force energy

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But I do need defense

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lol

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:03 PM

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carmine dragon Im relearning almost everything

There isn't really a guide to picking teams - there are, but they rely on structures that exist and are known and predictable, they don't translate well to a friend group's personal tiering and what have you. The points I made above about what to make sure you have is a good start, but you're going to derust and figure things out by doing rather than by theorizing.

If I were you, I'd take a look at each of the 35s, and figure out what you want to do and which one of those look the most exciting for you. You can read their AG or Ubers analyses on Smogon, get a sense of what the kinda 'mon they are and what they can accomplish, then pick the one that sounds the most exciting.

From there, I would pick Pokemon, either that Twan or I have suggested, or Pokemon you know you'd enjoy playing with. Keep in mind the points I've made, make sure you have some access to some of the things I've brought up as you go.

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If I were you, I would start with Calyrex Shadow Rider, Cinderace, Hydreigon, and Scream Tail. Plug those into a prep doc (see pins at the bottom) to see what you're missing prep-wise, and go from there to what excites you.

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We can def give you advice once you figure where you want to start, once you've got a few picks locked in and have an idea of your starting "core" so to speak. But when you have basically the entire world open to you, asking what your first step should be is a question about looking inward and not asking outward - there are very few wrong answers in Draft. So long as you're not picking Cosmog/oem or Bellsprout, for example, whatever restricted you pick is not going to be a bad choice in the sense that you can't recover.

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Would I recommend Sneasler or Walking Wake when Koraidon or CSR are on the field? No, absolutely not. Are they picks that you're not going to be able to make a draft from? Also no.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:09 PM

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gotcha

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@rancid kestrel got my team

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That was calling me

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Calyrex -6
Cinderace- 16
Hydreigon- 15
Scream Tail- 13
Rotom-Wash -16
Lombre- 1
Iron Bundle- 10
Espathra- 20
Scizor- 13

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:24 PM

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Are you sure you want Calyrex...?

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:24 PM

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Shadow rider?

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:24 PM

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For 6 points?

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:25 PM

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Not worth it?

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:25 PM

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CSR is 35 points, isn't it?

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:25 PM

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Oh yeah

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That was me then

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I misread the document 😭

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:25 PM

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To be fair, it's not like Nintendo did us any favor having a 'mon named Glastrier, Spectrier, Calyrex, Calyrex-Ice-Rider, and Calyrex-Shadow-Rider.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:26 PM

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Yeah

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haha

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:27 PM

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That said. I think that Espathra is alarmingly bad even at like, the point values it normally gets put at (like, 15), and that picking it up at 20 is, while not an unfixable decision, is absolutely self-defeating.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:27 PM

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So re reading on my own, I got these options

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Calyrex-S (35)
Cinderace (16)
Hydreigon (15)
Scizor (13)
Rotom-Wash (16)
Munchlax (1)

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:28 PM

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Are you able to get both CSR and Zama? I thought you could only get one restricted?

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:29 PM

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I’m blind.

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:29 PM

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That's fine. Not like it was any points /j

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:29 PM

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I need munchlax

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Top 3 of my favorite

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:30 PM

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So, I think that this is... doable. You have five points left for at least 3 Pokemon, which, like, isn't impossible, but you are particularly top heavy (TBF that's on me for my suggestions).

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It's not great that you don't have any way to set hazards outside of Hydrei SR, or that your speed tiers go from 119 to 98. It's not the end of the world, and given how off beat your league is from standard, you may not find these to be particularly difficult things to overcome.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:33 PM

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We can go with electrabuzz (3), lombre (for the memes and 1 point), and Unown (1)

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:34 PM

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I would recommend considering Rabsca as a 3pt 'mon that can use Revival Blessing - what's worse than one CSR? A second one at 50%.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:34 PM

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Calyrex-S (35)
Cinderace (16)
Hydreigon (15)
Scizor (13)
Rotom-Wash (16)
Rabsca (3)
Marshtomp (1)
Munchlax (1)

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:35 PM

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I'd also recommend Munchlax over Unown, or some other bulky NFE as a 1pter. In draft, every point is valuable, sure memes are whatever and can be fine, but remember, you have only five real Pokemon - it doesn't hurt to find a touch of value in a cheap 'mon that can maybe tank a hit or has a useful immunity. Unown is not any of that and doesn't add anything.

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Yeah, something like that definitely can work.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:37 PM

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Was thinking of replacing lombre with Marshtomp

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:37 PM

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I think both are about as good and both are unlikely to ever come. But it'd give you something immune to Electric.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:38 PM

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True

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:38 PM

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But like, again, no wrong decisions, and frankly, it is a one pointer.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:38 PM

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So a normal type would be better in the mix?

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:38 PM

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If you like your favorite mon, why not? It's never coming. I've drafted Snorunt plenty for it.

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:38 PM

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carmine dragon So a normal type would be better in the mix?

Well, that's what Munchlax's for, no?

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:39 PM

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True

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I’ll stick with Marshtomp

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:39 PM

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Thumbs up.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:39 PM

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He’s been my favorite starter

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Calyrex-S (35)
Cinderace (16)
Hydreigon (15)
Scizor (13)
Rotom-Wash (16)
Rabsca (3)
Marshtomp (1)
Munchlax (1)
Riolu (0)
Togepi (0)
Marill (0)

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:40 PM

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I think this is definitely usable, yeah.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:41 PM

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Gotcha

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I’ll come up with a good move set for each

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I’ll be back on later

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And get some feedback

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:45 PM

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Oh, to be clear - in draft, you build new teams for each opponent individually. You should be preparing for specific opponents, not making one overall good team and calling it a tour.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:46 PM

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Nope

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We stick with the same teams

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In this one

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:47 PM

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...Oh.

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That's wild.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:48 PM

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Yeah

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Actually she changed the rules 😭

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Like now

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We can draft

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Per opponent

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I need 11 by the way

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So I need 3 0 point Pokemon

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Which are baby

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So a gibble, etc

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:50 PM

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I'd pick some immunities. Whatever stuff but like, a Dark type, a Fairy type, smth with Water Absorb or Sap Sipper or whatever.

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Wait sorry, draft per opponent, as in, bring entirely new Pokemon for each opponent? Or just, change up movesets?

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:53 PM

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rancid kestrel Oh, to be clear - in draft, you build new teams for each opponent individually. ...

She mentioned this

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Almost identical

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:55 PM

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surprise i'm actually that person /j
but yeah that does make more sense! this place will be happy to help you figure out things when time comes

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:55 PM

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Thanks

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Calyrex-S (35)
Cinderace (16)
Hydreigon (15)
Scizor (13)
Rotom-Wash (16)
Rabsca (3)
Marshtomp (1)
Munchlax (1)
Riolu (0)
Togepi (0)
Marill (0)

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Final team for opponent 1

solemn warren Sep 21, 2025, 7:56 PM

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Calyrex mfing Shadow

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 7:56 PM

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Sure!

solemn warren Sep 21, 2025, 7:56 PM

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I'm sure you'll have a good time

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 7:57 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/verycat-cateat-gif-7339469281817108398

Tenor

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 8:08 PM

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rancid kestrel Sure!

So for the draft

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I need to chose 11

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But I need to choose 6

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 8:10 PM

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Yes, that's pretty standard. Do you mean choose 6 that you then tell your opponent to prepare for?

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 8:11 PM

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yeah, but idk what team my opponent will start off with

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https://pokepast.es/72ca190c5d511c77

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 8:16 PM

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Honestly, this benefits you more than them - they already are gonna assume that Togepi isn't coming, you have 5 good mons, 1 mon that can Do A Thing, and then 5 mons that kinda just exist outside of hyperniche stuff. Meanwhile, many of your opponents can bring 9+ usable mons. Forcing a specific 6 before prep even starts let alone team preview is a huge benefit to you over your opponents.

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 8:17 PM

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https://pokepast.es/6a8b76b11c38470d

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The bench

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 8:17 PM

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Just remember that those sets are gonna change a ton based on what your opponents have,

carmine dragon Sep 21, 2025, 8:18 PM

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True

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Idk what my opponents has

rancid kestrel Sep 21, 2025, 8:18 PM

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You'll find out eventually and then start prepping. You'll be fine!

cerulean aspen Sep 22, 2025, 3:33 PM

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misty plumeBOT Sep 22, 2025, 3:33 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

cerulean aspen Sep 22, 2025, 3:33 PM

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SV ND;
was thinking just a classic Toxic bulky (PhysDef?) Tera Water Gliscor

lofty sparrow Sep 22, 2025, 3:41 PM

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tera normal sd looks unwallable asf

cerulean aspen Sep 22, 2025, 3:46 PM

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air balloon dengo + skarm exists but yeah it is quite strong

spare relic Sep 22, 2025, 3:54 PM

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lofty sparrow tera normal sd looks unwallable asf

I think skarm clicks roar on that no?

lofty sparrow Sep 22, 2025, 3:55 PM

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i mean u can knock it

rancid kestrel Sep 22, 2025, 3:55 PM

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cerulean aspen

Goodness their team is passive. Like, sure, they've got offensive pieces, but a backbone of Florges Skarm Volc Tusk? Tusk is a bit odd-one-out here but like, it can't do A Ton, especially into you.
125-109-97, I get this is 8mon but like, surely you can get better speed tiers than this? Yours meanwhile look respectfully psychotic, it looks like you interpreted "oh a 120, 110, 100" as like, dogma LOL. But like, better than theirs!
Gliscor goes hard, for sure. Though it makes it harder to bring Crown, because like, Crown really wants Tera and it seems harder to bring non-Tera Crown into Wake Tusk Dengo Volc, yknow? I also like Koko a lot here, hard to see what really wants to take TBolt once you can DGleam/UTurn down the Tusk.
If I'm you, my options to leave at home seem to be Sceptile (bad into most of their good mons and sat on by Skarm), Iron Crown (see above), and like, Conkeldurr? Hard to see what Conk accomplishes here personally. I actually kinda like Swalot as a wall here, but you'll have to figure out the calcs you like are.
I think for them, I wanna take all these things, but I maybe leave Haxorus at home. It seems like a misery to be playing these predict games against MDia, Koko, Gliscor, and Crown while being Base 97 speed, and like, their scarfer should be Dengo or a Speed Booster Wake, anyway.
I then leave one of Florges/Skarm/Volc at home. I personally leave Volc at home - Skarm is a hazard mon that can mess up MDia with an steel-type move while also rocking RHelm for Palafin/Conk, and Florges is a good Wish passer and their primary special defense response to stuff like Koko and Crown.
I think Tusk is like, BU Spin, Florges is a SpD wall with Wish, Skarm brings hazards and a steel type move while also being physdef, Dengo is scarf, Wake and Weav are just beatsticks that you're going to have to figure out how to wall.

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bit of a shorter one but

lofty sparrow Sep 22, 2025, 3:55 PM

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or even run like smack down + eq ‼️‼️‼️‼️

cerulean aspen Sep 22, 2025, 4:03 PM

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rancid kestrel - Goodness their team is passive. Like, sure, they've got offensive pieces, but ...

honestly the psychotic speed tiers are mainly from jscurf suggesting sceptile out of nowhere 💀
agree that tbolt is super spammable after tusk is out of the picture, always super forces out stuff like weavile volcanion skarm etc

rancid kestrel Sep 22, 2025, 4:04 PM

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252 SpA Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 350-414 (94.3 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

you only need one prediction right or for them to not be booster speed/fairy resist berry/invested and then like. what even do they do

quartz raptor Sep 22, 2025, 4:40 PM

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Ok so. I am participating in a low stakes pokemon draft 2v2 little tourney with 6 of my friends. Thing is I don't know how to competitive pokemon good, especially not 2v2 but the reward is a drawing of me and my team. I want that. Please help me draft my team, I just looked at pokemons I think are cool and put them in with no thoughts because I don't know where to start thinking. Is this any good?????

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Backup is like if One of the guys gets picked, a second choice if you will

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Oh and the team is from 9 to 11 pokemons and the points are 100 max points per team (I hit that right on the target with the 9)

rancid kestrel Sep 22, 2025, 4:54 PM

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Just to be clear, @quartz raptor - those 14 Pokemon are all yours? And you're playing a doubles format? Or does 2v2 mean you bring 2 Pokemon to a game.

quartz raptor Sep 22, 2025, 4:56 PM

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We haven’t drafted yet, the 9 are my top priority and the 5 on the right are backups if people steal my 9. As for the format it is double battles

rancid kestrel Sep 22, 2025, 4:57 PM

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Do you have a sheet link?

quartz raptor Sep 22, 2025, 4:58 PM

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yes hold on

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_tRHnWQLHIl4_pvQMRvmeFLjEFoIK8HY-jHn-luMoiE/edit?gid=162447210#gid=162447210

Google Docs

WBG Reg F tier list

rancid kestrel Sep 22, 2025, 5:07 PM

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Okay so. I don't know a ton about Doubles, but I'll do my best.

Espeon, Blissey, Chandelure, Cinderace, Tinkaton, Cramorant, Clefable, Hatterne, Lilligant, and Sylveon are all not useless, but don't serve a very strong purpose. Some of these are going to be wastes of points since they either get outclassed by something you already have (what is Espeon's role on a team with FMane, for example). That doesn't mean you can't try to get them, but you're going to end up relying a lot on Kingambit, Flutter Mane, and Incineroar to win your games, and while those 'mons are good and can get KOes sometimes, you're likely going to end up being weighed down somewhat.
I would not try to prep an entire list of nine before drafting even begins. Even in a pool of six, fairly small, you are not likely to get every single 'mon you want - I'd be surprised if you get all of Gambit, Mane, and Incin. I know you said you have backups, but you should be planning based on what you get rather than a pre-start plan for everything.
What I would do is that I would pick FMane (the most expensive 'mon that you want) and then go from there. If Gambit or Incin are still available to you when it comes back to your pick, awesome, grab one of them. If not, realize your 20 point 'mon is not an offensive 'mon in doubles really, and find something expensive that can be that offensive powerhouse. An Urshifu, Chien Pao, Chi-Yu, something. Also remember that Even if you get Incin or Gambit, they're also not offensive powerhouses either. I'd find powerful 'mons at some point that you can rely on for good damage. For example, I see a 12 Point Latios or Salamence, stuff that can be hard to predict and can dish out serious damage.

quartz raptor Sep 22, 2025, 5:52 PM

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Thank you for the feedback

untold crag Sep 22, 2025, 8:57 PM

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@rancid kestrel

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opp has insane draft

rancid kestrel Sep 22, 2025, 8:58 PM

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Is this another "this game needs to be done within the next few days" or if I leave this for tomorrow it won't be a problem?

untold crag Sep 22, 2025, 9:02 PM

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no

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i got a week

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ur good

rancid kestrel Sep 22, 2025, 9:03 PM

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I'll mark unread for tomorrow

untold crag Sep 22, 2025, 9:04 PM

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cool

spare relic Sep 23, 2025, 2:25 PM

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701135620789108766/1419689534580461639/image0.jpg?ex=68d3fde9&is=68d2ac69&hm=fbc2454be63180391a4c392cbd2d251afb560de5b3c9d9b7006a1b8aaca9d69d&

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Interesting MU since it’s against a fellow tusk team

rancid kestrel Sep 23, 2025, 2:39 PM

#

untold crag <@129787659777212416>

I can't say I'm a huge fan of your opponent's team, unfortunately. Your opponent has four Pokemon with varying levels of legitimacy - Pult, MDia, ChiYu, and Primarina, with the rest of their team being somewhat "suspect" in the sense that it's hard to see a lot of use consistently coming from them.
Their speed tiers are pretty hard to figure out. 110-110-70 is alarming for ND 8mon, and while 110-100 is fine, you can see where it sorta breaks down here, right? How are they outspeeding IV if not Dragapult? It kinda is just Scarf Chi-Yu. Look how much speed Hydreigon (if you don't scarf it) can give up - you can go down to just 164+ and still outspeed Modest Chi-Yu that isn't scarf'd, and if you are willing to risk not outspeeding Modest non-Scarf Chi-Yu, you literally only need 32+ or 124 to outspeed 252+ Poliwrath. Like, that's super bad for them. You're not super well-positioned to take advantage of it, admittedly, but their speed here is not great, and basically every Pokemon below 100 doesn't want to run speed. Their saving grace is Dragapult, but Dragapult is the saving grace on any non-Ubers format draft it is allowed in.
They only have one removal, but they do have MDia. Their removal's not good for ND 8mon, but it's serviceable. Their setting is more rough, relying on MDia and a few subpar options to get up the bare minimum. That said, on this team, Hippo or Zong probably does come regularly, so it's not like they're boxed out of options in prep.

#

Dragapult, MDia, and Chi-Yu come here. Chi-Yu should be scarf, should be, and MDia is going to do what MDia does. The big question you need to figure out is what Dragapult is doing. My guess is going to be specially offensive, since otherwise Ferro, Doublade, and Pecharunt kinda make its life much more difficult. It can figure out Florges with help from, IDK, Corv or Bronzong. It probably doesn't need Specs here, check calcs but, would be worth being on the lookout for a Dark or Fairy resist berry to surprise Hydrei/IV.
Other three. I think Corv has to come, it does well into most of your threats. Primarina's useful here too, in much the same way. Final mon, personally I pick Bronzong, but I could see justification for Arboliva/Hippo/Poliwrath. I just think that Bronzong's better for these purposes. Poliwrath if not, though, I think that is standout "second best".
For you, if I'm in your shoes, IV Hydrei are my core. Scarf the latter, the former I'd play around with calcs and mocks for a while and see what I like. OgerH looks useful here, as does a defensive Florges. Ferro Pecharunt or Doublade can serve as a physdef 'mon against Poliwrath, odd phsyical Pults, and Hippo sorta - Ferro seems better to me than Doublade or Pech but I've not run the calcs, and it bringing hazards is quite nice. Final mon, could see Pecharunt, I could see Cyclizar, I could see MPert. My gut instinct is Pech but I couldn't really explain why.

rancid kestrel Sep 23, 2025, 2:58 PM

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spare relic https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701135620789108766/1419689534580461639/im...

Your opponent's team is very top heavy. They're "taking advantage" of a depressed view of Tera Tealpon, a 'mon that I'm quite fond of personally, and like, hey, it's working for them. Not super great into your team, it kinda hates Hydrapple pre-Tera, but like, it plus IB plus Tusk are for sure a potent combo.
It's hard to see what you'll do about IB. But then again, that's true for most teams in 8mon SV. You do have a particularly strong response in Glowking, 252/252+ Specs is what it takes to nearly assure the 2HKO w/ Hydro Pump against 252/252+. And it's hard for them to run 252+ since you have a Jolteon. So like, it's only a 25% chance for HPump to 2HKO from 252/252? Yay, I guess. If you put on an Assault Vest, suddenly it's 22% chance to 3HKO? Seems like the best avenue for you.
Their removal is quite good, but I'm not a fan of their setting. Coalossal is not real, especially into Tusk Toise Hatt, so like, it's Spikes Oger and Rocks Tusk. TSpikes Glowking exists, IG. But yeah, rough stuff. At least they have two great removal options.

#

If I'm them, I leave Granbull and Coalossal behind. You can kinda see the top-heavyness from Bundle Tusk resulting in two 'mons that like, can't really ever come. They have plenty good hazard control btwn Tera Tealpon, Bundle Booster, Spin Tusk, I'm not convinced they need a scarfer - they kinda don't have a good one anyway. Bundle does what Bundle does, Ogerpon could be band, 252/252+ Apple is taking 41% max from Uturn which seems useful. Could be SD though but like, UTurn still isn't killing.
Tusk is probably utility here, it's not a fan of Toise, potential Ice Jolt, Apple, Hatt... Does Tusk not come? Lol. Surely Tusk comes. What even is Granbull doing? Maybe it's offensive Mirror Herb Tusk, lol. ThundyT I dunno what it'll do, probably some nonsense, not sure how it hits your Tusk w/o Tera. Corv has to handle hazards here, if tusk is Mirror Herb then like, IG they aren't setting hazards, but if Tusk is utility then this is probably some defensive response to Tusk setup threats. God even Corv doesn't look good into you, Jolt Ace make its life hell. But I'm less convinced that Corv's staying back than I was with Tusk. TBF, they can't leave both behind, even ignoring removal, you absolutely cannot be bringing Coalossal to a game, sorry. Final mon Glowking. SpDef for Toise, Apple, Jolt. Probably just works, yknow.

untold crag Sep 23, 2025, 3:26 PM

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rancid kestrel - Dragapult, MDia, and Chi-Yu come here. Chi-Yu should be scarf, should be, and ...

Thanks a lot

#

Im not sure with pech

#

Dont see much useful here

rancid kestrel Sep 23, 2025, 3:27 PM

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Could see a ghost resist berry lure w/ shadow ball to trade down with Pult, but yeah, if I'm playing your game my thoughts on the last thought are kinda like. There's no easy one Good answer, yknow?

spare relic Sep 23, 2025, 3:55 PM

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rancid kestrel - If I'm them, I leave Granbull and Coalossal behind. You can kinda see the top-...

Thanks afairy as usual.

For me Terapon+iron bundle will probably be the biggest threats to focus on. Although thankfully I have mons like drapple that can check it. Iron bundle is hard but it could be specs like last time.

They have tusk and corv has hazard removers and Ogerpon as a spikes setter which is a pretty interesting dynamic.

Your probably right about the bottom 2 they are essential the cheap mons that prob won’t come to battle. Ig he could Tera grass coalossal to check like a tusk or toise? But that’s a waste of a Tera since tealpon already does that.

For granbull, surprisingly it has a high attack stat (120) but iirc it’s usually used as a defensive/utility fairy type no? I don’t really see what it checks here but ig he can try some cheesy attack strats like endeavor custap, and ig it has lash out to hit glowking?

For my mons personally based on a quick glance I’m not sure if I like hatterene here especially into glowking. Tusk has a harder time here as corv,bundle,Ogerpon,thundy all check it. Hydrapple & ace looks fine here fwiw and if jolteon and blastoise too. Froslass can be bringable but hazard stacking will be hard with their removal. Glowking probably has to come so I don’t immediately get 6/0ed by bundle lol

rancid kestrel Sep 23, 2025, 3:57 PM

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I think that's a good assessment, yeah.

spiral thunder Sep 23, 2025, 4:10 PM

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https://pokepast.es/1ea5aee3c444e150

Screenshot_2025-09-23_at_12.10.31_PM.png

misty plumeBOT Sep 23, 2025, 4:10 PM

#

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rancid kestrel Sep 23, 2025, 4:10 PM

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I will take a look at this in a few hours

spiral thunder Sep 23, 2025, 4:10 PM

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cool thx

#

:DD

rancid kestrel Sep 23, 2025, 5:51 PM

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spiral thunder https://pokepast.es/1ea5aee3c444e150

I'm not going to lie, I'm not the biggest fan of your team. You've unfortunately picked tw "draft traps" - 'mons that may seem fun to use or otherwise good but really struggle in the draft format. Espathra is not good when you can see it coming - a Tera Dark or Steel on Reuiniclus for example can make it very difficult for your Espathra to do much of anything, and Haze or other similar tools can make the slot a bit of a drain. Additionally, it's a very Tera-dependant 'mon, it kinda needs it to properly do anything. Maushold is similar, when you can see it on the opposing team, it's not hard to put Rocky Helmet on, say, Donphan, and all of the sudden Maushold's gone down without accomplishing much of anything.
Your speed tiers are okay, not not great. 111 as a top speed kinda doesn't cut it in SV (is this NatDex? I don't see any 'mons that require it, your paste is in a non-ND format, but the sheet implies it is? I am assuming it's not) and their Cinderace is going to be a pain for you as a result. Your speeds are otherwise okay, but viewing it as if Maushold and Espathra are relevant to speed tiers is a bit inaccurate, the former is really close to Wake, the real speed threat, and the latter has Speed Boost - it's more of a question for DeoS than, say, whatever they should have between 110 and 92. They should have something between 110 and 92. They don't. I don't know why.
They have okay removal, Court Change is kinda pulling all the weight though. Their hazard stacking is good, but it's maybe uncomfortably reliant on DeoS. Your hazards are way better, CEdge + Chomp is awesome, and Rachi/Dun can pull weight too. Your removal is, unfortunately, not great, Maushold Tidy Up is your only option for removal at all, and you have no TSpikes absorption pre-Tera. Not that they have TSpikes. You're also a bit lucky that like, Court Change being their big removal means hazardstack DeoS is less good for them.

#

I'm going to jump straight to the paste, because you've got a paste. First things first, existential threat to your chance of succeeding - Bellibolt just doesn't have IVs. I assume it's PhysDef into Bax, OgerW, and Toxicroak, so I'm assuming off that.
I see a lot of 252+ Speed on a lot of mons. This is not necessary. Let's take Walking Wake as an example - with 252+, you get the SpA boost, good, but what is that hitting speed-wise? You hit 348, sure, but for what? Oger 252+ hits 350, you're not outspeeding that. The next fastest thing if we ignore scarves or Rapid Spin boosts is 252 Cinderace at 337 speed. There's nothing in between 350 and 337. We can drop Wake's speed to 216+ and still outspeed that Cinderace, and suddenly we have 40 EVs to put into a defensive stat or HP!
You can do similar with Garchomp (prob want to outspeed 252 Ogerpon), Espathra (252 Cinderace but you get like 4EVs back but still if you're gonna invest in Speed at all pre-boosts then why not speed creep properly), and Jirachi (you never outspeed 252+ DeoS, but you can outspeed scarf 252+ Krook).

#

I'm not super convinced that all of these sets are great. What's Scald doing on Wake, why is it not its Hydro Steam move or whatever it is? Why is it Psychic Tera on Espathra, especially if you have Tera Blast? Go Tera Fighting to prevent Krook or Tera Dark/Steel from blanking Stored Power.
Are we really leaving Hisu Samu behind? Are we that scared of Court Change? Samu seems useful into Reuni, Dengo, Cinderace, DeoS (with Sucker) - what is Bellibolt doing here, exactly? Whats its purpose? I'm not saying it's the wrong choice, but I'm not super convinced it brings a ton to the table.

carmine bay Sep 24, 2025, 1:14 AM

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#comp-general message any thoughts

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my match is soon

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bouta go up against a team w these mons, the person tends to run hisuian zoroark, articuno, raging bolt and alolan ninetales, and im curious if running chien pao, ammonguss, dragonite, and eelektross would be my best bet? or do swap dragonite (would i would normally tera normal) for sneasler

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my team

misty plumeBOT Sep 24, 2025, 1:16 AM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

carmine bay Sep 24, 2025, 1:16 AM

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opponents team

cerulean aspen Sep 24, 2025, 2:38 AM

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carmine bay opponents team

the inverse color scheme is killing my eyes
I assume this is VGC because the tiers are VGC (holy shit 114 for 8 mons)

I will say this is a pretty bad MU for chien-nite, articuno ninetales-a stuffs tera normal dnite pretty hard with defense investment + roost, harc also ruins gouging + pao
luckily hariyama w/ thick fast has an amazing mu, with AV and bulk investment it's very hard for them to break. Drain Punch alone deals decent damage into their entire team.
That being said, I have no idea why you have a Sneasler + Hariyama... Sneasler's speed and CC's hit very hard here, Hizo is pressured to not only check Espeed spam but also 2 fighting mons.

if I'm you I just bring top 6 , figure out the Pao set (Pao into Harc is a really bad mu icl). Maybe resist berry in snow + sd sacred sword...
Amoonguss is the bolt check, though it might be worth bringing eelektross over it in this mu (it's kind of bad into waterpon spore immunity + snow + harc). if you bring it it's probably standard pollen puff spore rage powder sitrus, though again not great into blizzard spam.
gouging fire is solid offense, tera fairy is very good here. heat crash + dragon claw / breaking swipe with howl paired with pao or hariyama is pretty hard for them to deal with.
dnite idk, could probs go for a utility brick break set here but I don't like it. Probably still have to bring it though, maybe band brick break espeed stomping tantrum dragon claw. Does solid (?) damage into most of their mons

carmine bay Sep 24, 2025, 2:38 AM

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Ngl I alr played and won

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Went 2-0

cerulean aspen Sep 24, 2025, 2:39 AM

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they don't really have offensive threats, it's more like their entire team does consistent damage (waterpon tera cudgel + spatk booster draco are their only big hitters, though band harc is valid)

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💀

carmine bay Sep 24, 2025, 2:39 AM

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I was just scared cuz I didn’t practice the against the team

gilded oasis Sep 24, 2025, 12:01 PM

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Good morning! I’m in a draft tournament with my friends using the vgc F rules. I’ve finished drafting my Pokémons what do you guys think? Am I cooking or am I cooked?

misty plumeBOT Sep 24, 2025, 12:01 PM

#

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

gilded oasis Sep 24, 2025, 12:02 PM

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gilded oasis Good morning! I’m in a draft tournament with my friends using the vgc F rules. I...

It’s doubles btw

cerulean aspen Sep 24, 2025, 2:28 PM

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ND SV

cerulean aspen Sep 24, 2025, 2:28 PM

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gilded oasis Good morning! I’m in a draft tournament with my friends using the vgc F rules. I...

about this
it's rather solid, waterpon blursa with psyspam core

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maybe a bit linear and the fast mode isn't great (waterpon top spe and basc no rain no tw)
if possible I'd pick up like a really fast low tier for speed control (webs, tw, icy wind)

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when I say webs I mean electroweb btw not sticky

gilded oasis Sep 24, 2025, 3:21 PM

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Should I still get fast Pokémon’s if I’m going trick room?

rancid kestrel Sep 24, 2025, 3:22 PM

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gilded oasis Good morning! I’m in a draft tournament with my friends using the vgc F rules. I...

Dunno much about VGC, admittedly. Seems fine. Ursa Bascu and Oger are strong as a core, and you've got good utility 'mons like Gallade, Indeedee, and Arma to help out. Not super sure Coal, Espa, or Scyther will add much of anything, but you've got a nice team that probably works in and out of TR to some extent.

rancid kestrel Sep 24, 2025, 3:23 PM

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gilded oasis Should I still get fast Pokémon’s if I’m going trick room?

Again, VGC Draft is pretty far from what we normally deal with, but my understanding of VGC is generally speaking you either commit to hard TR with multiple defensive setters, or you just have it as an option but not the primary gameplan.

gilded oasis Sep 24, 2025, 3:24 PM

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Ok thank you!!

rancid kestrel Sep 24, 2025, 3:25 PM

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cerulean aspen ND SV

Didn't you already ask about this matchup? #1320229793270337536 message

cerulean aspen Sep 24, 2025, 3:31 PM

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rancid kestrel Didn't you already ask about this matchup? https://discord.com/channels/19271331...

uuuh yes mb 😅

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sorry sorry

untold crag Sep 24, 2025, 4:34 PM

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rancid kestrel Could see a ghost resist berry lure w/ shadow ball to trade down with Pult, but ...

Thats a shout

spare relic Sep 25, 2025, 3:41 PM

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Okay so I haven’t really though much of my other Natdex Ubers matches, but they are coming soon so I need a few ideas

jade solar Sep 25, 2025, 4:08 PM

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rematch of my week 4 game, finally made POs in a paldex league after so much struggle. definitely will have to prepare better for this matchup now.
Last meeting: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9draft-2427050857-k50xgxv4562kmil98laa177y0v5s8mspw

[Gen 9] Draft: charlieum vs. VagueParallels - Replays - Pokémon Sh...

Watch a replay of a Pokémon battle between charlieum and VagueParallels! Format: [Gen 9] Draft; Date: Aug 23, 2025

misty plumeBOT Sep 25, 2025, 4:08 PM

#

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rancid kestrel Sep 25, 2025, 5:02 PM

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spare relic Okay so I haven’t really though much of my other Natdex Ubers matches, but they ...

It's NDUbers so I'm not going to be able to write a ton knowledgeably and I don't feel super well so I'll see what I can do...

for hgc1110, I'm not super sure what you can do to stop Arc-Ground. Groudon can probably take a hit, but what is it doing back? Skymin can do damage, but it can't take a hit. If it can hit its rock-type move, you kinda have no real good response. ArcG, scarf Zek/Resh/Kyu (why do they have all 3...?) MMeta, Zama, +2. If I'm them I basically ignore the fact that you have sun - maybe scarf Reshi looks scarier in it - and just focus on dealing a ton of damage that will be difficult for you to keep up with. I probably take a second of the Gen5 dragons, and then... AMuk? Milo?
Stefaan, Arc-Grass is kinda hard to figure out here, so maybe it stays behind? It's not a very good Arc here, anyway. Your team really dislikes things living (Skymin, FMane, Phero, KyuB, MMawile all really prefer OHKOing to avoid taking hits) and Lunala is kinda terrifying. If done correcty it can even potentially do that more than once if set up correctly. Etern's not super ideal into you but isn't ever going to be bad. Lunala Etern Zac + 3 - I'd prob take TingLu to help stall sun turns, maybe a band Ray w/ ESpeed, and then possibly Vikavolt for Webs or Shifu for damage.

rancid kestrel Sep 25, 2025, 5:09 PM

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jade solar rematch of my week 4 game, finally made POs in a paldex league after so much str...

Gonna link back my old comments from when you played them - #1320229793270337536 message

I don't feel super well so I don't see the value of doing an entirely new writeup and I think mostly what I've said there holds true here. I will say that a second run of something as lure/"gimmicky" as your Sneasler set back then probably doesn't hold the same surprise, as is the nature of Draft. I think I'd still advise the same sorta things I did back then. I think that you're probably on track to win - I think your team matches up well into the average Torn TingLu stuff, just don't let last time's game mess with you and don't tilt and you're probably good so long as you build something you're comfortable with.

jade solar Sep 25, 2025, 5:13 PM

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yeah

weary ibex Sep 25, 2025, 10:48 PM

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So this is what I am working with this week. (Ignore the slowking) I am not too sure on speed stats here since I feel like I should try to be as fast as possible on most mons.

misty plumeBOT Sep 25, 2025, 10:49 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

weary ibex Sep 25, 2025, 10:49 PM

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weary ibex So this is what I am working with this week. (Ignore the slowking) I am not too ...

Oh yeah this is USUM btw

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I am also not sure what item I should be giving whims since both Tornadus and Mawile exist

rancid kestrel Sep 25, 2025, 11:54 PM

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This is VGC, yeah?

weary ibex Sep 26, 2025, 12:06 AM

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rancid kestrel This is VGC, yeah?

yeah 2019

rancid kestrel Sep 26, 2025, 12:08 AM

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I suppose I'll ping @cerulean aspen since they've helped before? But I don't think you'll find any other useful help here given how distant it is from standard Draft. Maybe trace knows some VGC draft but otherwise I dunno that there'll be much here, sorry.

weary ibex Sep 26, 2025, 12:09 AM

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Yeah, im aware. You have mentioned this before, just wanted to seeif maybe I am forgetting something important mostly

rancid kestrel Sep 26, 2025, 12:11 AM

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Seems scary to Choice Blace into a MMawile team. Only thing that sticks out to me.

weary ibex Sep 26, 2025, 12:26 AM

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rancid kestrel Seems scary to Choice Blace into a MMawile team. Only thing that sticks out to m...

I assume you mean specs?

rancid kestrel Sep 26, 2025, 12:27 AM

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Choice Specs Blace, yeah - it's not Specs-specific, it's "any item that locks you into a move when MMawile is on the other team"

weary ibex Sep 26, 2025, 12:28 AM

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Good point what would you suggest? expert belt maybe?

rancid kestrel Sep 26, 2025, 12:28 AM

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If you feel like you need the damage, sure. I don't know the calcs or anything. LO might also work - Blace doesn't take hits anyway.

weary ibex Sep 26, 2025, 12:30 AM

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LO could work...

cerulean aspen Sep 26, 2025, 1:32 AM

#

weary ibex So this is what I am working with this week. (Ignore the slowking) I am not too ...

they have a team that's a little bit of everything. The most annoying mons for you are def the torn-t, rotom-heat, and meowstic
torn-t with AV eats up most of your hits and dishes out air slash / heat wave / weather balls, which are pretty hard for you to switch into defensively, so heliolisk bring is good. pretty much have to pair with whimsicott (would not go babiri in this mu, coba or occa are better) w/ sunny day + tailwind.
rotom-heat with goggles basically walls your entire team. tbolt overheat protect filler (probably plot). again probably try to break through with heliolisk, maybe hp rock, but this one is tricky.
meowstic is annoying because of one thing: prankster rain dance. It has fake out for whims (cloak doesn't exist yet), and can shut down your offense HARD with rain dance + light screen.
other threats to be wary of: mmaw idt is actually v good into sun spam, they might actually leave it on the bench.
araq has good spd + wide guard so it can act as a solid check to zard-y
milotic same as araq, but no wide guard, instead has recover and is generally bulkier
mlade has wide guard (I think in usum it gets wide guard), also checks heliolisk due to speed tier. careful.
Drampa is a solid fire resist for them, also dishes out pretty meaty hits with hyper voice + draco. it can get out of hand quickly with a roost berserk set, so careful here asw.

#

now, on your side:
(I'm assuming Z is banned? idr)
blacephalon is god. They have no shadow ball switchin bar drampa, so I agree specs is the right bring. you have protect on a specs mon though, drop protect for heat wave.
Whimsicott: Tailwind is SO important here. mlade torn-t outspeeding your key threats in heliolisk blace and zardy is bad for you. They also have no TR setter bar Meowstic (which is frail and loses to blace + whims taunt) so I wouldn't worry too much? I'd slot After You + Minspe clefairy just in case though.
Hawlucha is solid as well, I don't know how good Drain Punch is in this mu though, I feel like you want HJK for the damage vs Rotom-H + MMaw
Zard should run heat wave air slash (for mlade araq) solar beam protect
drop sunny day on clefairy for after you as mentioned above
whimsicott needs sunny day here

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mad respect to afairy for being able to type these up all the time 😅

weary ibex Sep 26, 2025, 1:37 AM

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Understood, I honestly had the same thought process for the pokemon threats.

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@cerulean aspen But unfortunatly my opponent had to rush our games (we were supposed to do them tomorrow) So I pretty much just used what I had. Which sucked. I lost 1-2 but the last game was kinda close

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These are the games if you are curious

cerulean aspen Sep 26, 2025, 1:43 AM

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weary ibex

why did we not mega t1

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it would have OHKO'd the Drampa with increased SpA

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just because Cloud Nine is in effect doesn't mean the +spatk doesn't take place

weary ibex Sep 26, 2025, 1:44 AM

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shit...... I thought megas change stats..... I feel so dumb.....

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I forgot they change stats

cerulean aspen Sep 26, 2025, 1:52 AM

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it's fine

weary ibex Sep 26, 2025, 1:52 AM

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@cerulean aspen Here is another one that I honestly feel kinda confident.

cerulean aspen Sep 26, 2025, 1:52 AM

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weary ibex <@1273300304003072120> Here is another one that I honestly feel kinda confident.

why do they have 7 mons

weary ibex Sep 26, 2025, 1:53 AM

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idk, thats what they drafted

cerulean aspen Sep 26, 2025, 1:53 AM

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and uh
the most godly heliolisk mu of all time

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grass knot thunder gg

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with a life orb under Tailwind

weary ibex Sep 26, 2025, 1:53 AM

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this is all they pulled LOL

weary ibex Sep 26, 2025, 1:56 AM

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cerulean aspen grass knot thunder gg

This is the only thing I am worried about, there is a chance I dont kill swampert

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I could switch to modest nature maybe?

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That should work

cerulean aspen Sep 26, 2025, 2:12 AM

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weary ibex That should work

why are you 11 IV HP Heliptile in the first place

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that's not heliolisk

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???

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252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert-Mega: 244-291 (117.8 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
@weary ibex ???

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run it with whimsicott
thunder hyper voice grass knot protect

weary ibex Sep 26, 2025, 3:12 AM

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cerulean aspen why are you 11 IV HP Heliptile in the first place

not 100% sure honestly.

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@cerulean aspen Sorry it took so long to respond I just had a 70 min deadlock game, I had to lock in

spare relic Sep 26, 2025, 2:14 PM

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rancid kestrel It's NDUbers so I'm not going to be able to write a ton knowledgeably and I don'...

So unfortunately for hgc I made a few crucial mistakes on builder that cost me the game

https://pokepast.es/e69ef7893113aff4 in this paste I forgot to put chlorophyll on venusaur and put the wrong eject item for moltres, it was suppose to be eject button 🫩💔

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2449770758

[Gen 9] NatDex Draft: hgc1110 vs. siroperation - Replays - Pokémon...

Watch a replay of a Pokémon battle between hgc1110 and siroperation! Format: [Gen 9] NatDex Draft; Date: Sep 26, 2025

proven zenith Sep 26, 2025, 11:58 PM

#

hello, I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this team im preparing to bring against my opponent. our tier is national dex draft.
Here is the link to my team: https://pokepast.es/45ade2ca4145d596
My opponent's pokemon:
Iron Bundle
Sneasler
Tapu Lele
Alolamola
Gliscore
Galade(Tera fighting, dark, fire)
Forretress(Tera steel, fighting, fairy)
Xurkitree
Hoopa(unbound)
Ditto
Golurk
Brute Bonnet(Tera dark, poison, fire)

My team:
Tyranitar
Kommo-o
Iron Crown
Tentacruel
Heat Rotom
Lycanroc midday
Nidoking
Lokix
Magnezone(Tera electric, fighting, ground)
Houndstone(Tera ghost, fairy, steel)
Ogerpon Heartflame
Wo-chien(Tera dark, poison, fairy)

misty plumeBOT Sep 26, 2025, 11:58 PM

#

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rancid kestrel Sep 27, 2025, 4:46 AM

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proven zenith hello, I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this team im preparing to...

A bit of a shorter one because it's real late at night for me.

Why are your speeds the way they are? For example, Ogerpon has 252+, but what is it outrunning with that? It wants to outrun Tapu Lele, sure, but it needs 248 or 136+ to accomplish that. Basically every single 'mon that you've invested speed into has the same problem, just a ton of wasted EVs. Houndstone hits 470 in the Sand with 252, their fastest non-boosted speed is 408, what is the purpose of all those EVs?
Where's your hazard removal? Even beyond Nido Tspikes absorption, you have six grounded Pokemon, none of which are using Boots, and they have Gliscor + Forry. I'm not looking forward to getting chipped for 25%+Rocks every turn I need to switch something in.
What is your answer to threats of theirs like Iron Bundle? It looks to me like it 2HKOs your whole team, Crown can't exactly switch in and is still slower than Booster Speed Bundle. What's the switchin to a Specs Lele Moonblast? It's Crown, again, and that seems super unsustainable. Nidoking gets 90% chance at 2HKO from Timid.
What's Roar for on TTar? Power Whip on Oger? Taunt on Lokix? These seem like confusing options and I'm struggling to envision when they get clicked. TTar never gets Roar off on Bundle Sneasler or Gliscor, Power Whip is good for hitting Alo I guess but they're never staying in, Lokix Taunts... what exactly? I can't even tell what it's for.

proven zenith Sep 27, 2025, 2:11 PM

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you're right...i didn't put too much thought into those threats at all. I originally ran taunt to try and stop hazards from being set up, or to prevent a substitute/wish from going off. From what I can tell, the only mon i have with rapid spin is the jellyfish...im not too sure any of my guys get defog

rancid kestrel Sep 27, 2025, 2:12 PM

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Rotom-Heat has Defog. Are you using a prep doc? Check the pins (Techno's towards the bottom) to get a prep doc link, its super useful and I highly recommend using one.

proven zenith Sep 27, 2025, 2:13 PM

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alolamola has proven a thorn in my side every time i face it...i swapped out lokix for an analytic assault vest magnezone, but i wonder, would tera blast fighting do more than tera fighting body press?

rancid kestrel Sep 27, 2025, 2:14 PM

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I would use the Showdown calc to figure out those calcs! You can see for yourself how things look.

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https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/

proven zenith Sep 27, 2025, 2:14 PM

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ill take a look, thank you

spare relic Sep 29, 2025, 12:16 PM

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Alright so this is for round 5, Mus are looking a little more harder

lofty sparrow Sep 29, 2025, 12:17 PM

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scarf tusk lowkey clears no

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ig u dont rly wanna run scarf tusk but it does clear

spare relic Sep 29, 2025, 12:18 PM

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Zapdos & zarude makes things tricky for tusk but ig rock coverage can help

lofty sparrow Sep 29, 2025, 12:18 PM

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theyre forced to bring prima for smash toise so i think u can do something w that

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or ig they can do some weird yache berry zarude thing

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or tera water

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lowkey u can run like tera grass + some bulk?

spare relic Sep 29, 2025, 12:19 PM

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Hmm ic the vision

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But indeedee+unburden Sneasler is also a possible thing

lofty sparrow Sep 29, 2025, 12:21 PM

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maybe colbur glowking could be nice

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+2 252+ Atk Sneasler Throat Chop vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Colbur Berry Slowking-Galar: 231-272 (69.7 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

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and invest for acrobatics ig

spare relic Sep 29, 2025, 12:25 PM

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lofty sparrow +2 252+ Atk Sneasler Throat Chop vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Colbur Berry Slowking-Galar: 2...

Hmm for sure

spiral thunder Sep 29, 2025, 3:18 PM

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rancid kestrel - I'm not super convinced that all of these sets are great. What's Scald doing o...

thanks and sorry for the late response - i have scald bc it has a burn chance which i think is boosted by serene grace? nobody will be running so day so i dont see the point when its the same dmg.

i just forgot to tera espathra and iv bellibolt i was thinking water. as for speeds, im not sure on how to figure out which exact speed to set each mon for its confusing

cerulean aspen Sep 29, 2025, 3:29 PM

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we are now 1-1

misty plumeBOT Sep 29, 2025, 3:29 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

cerulean aspen Sep 29, 2025, 3:30 PM

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Koko into Valiant Treads looks like something the devil cooked up
on the other hand Palafin does go super hard here, I'd assume Tera Grass Victini in this mu

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demon Gliscor also works here perhaps Tera Flying DWB / Tera Blast

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looks like a scarf koko mu to revenge valiant + maero

rancid kestrel Sep 29, 2025, 5:48 PM

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spare relic Alright so this is for round 5, Mus are looking a little more harder

Not a fan of your opponent's team. Sneasler seems out of place even with Indeedee, their top 4 is good and they have alright 5 and 6 but it feels somewhat disconnected. Like, your defensive core when you bring your top 6 is Zap, Exca, Prim? Can't feel great.
Their best Pokemon is their primary hazard setter. Exca has rocks, Sneasler has TSpikes, and I guess Coalossal exists, but it's kinda all on DeoS with Exca support. Their removal is solo-Exca, too, assuming Coal doesn't come - it shouldn't into you given Toise Tusk Hatt. Hatt can't really staring contest either of their main setters, but Court Change plus usable Spinners makes it hard for them to win the hazard war here.
If I'm them, I leave Coalossal at home for sure. As for a second 'mon to leave behind... is it Indeedee? They may try to force the Indeedee for Unburden stuff but like, I dunno, it doesn't look stellar into you anyway with Unburden, I guess Throat Chop can threaten Glowking. Do they leave behind Exca? Maybe they leave behind Exca. It's prob Indeedee they leave behind and try like a White Herb Unburden, if it is Unburden.
For you, I'd probably leave behind Hydrapple (seems less than ideal into Zarude, Sneasler, DeoS, Zap) and... Froslass? I could see the value in Lass tho. Jolteon? I dunno. I'd probably run an offensive Ace, hard to see what they have that actually wants to switch in over the course of a longer game, and like rightclicker said, Prim's kinda gotta be there for Toise. Froslass could be a cool Scarf or something, probably, or even just hazard setting.
Tusk prob does hazards if Lass doesn't, and it prob does some kinda Booster offensive set if it does. Just remember that you don't outspeed DeoS. Toise can be Shell Smash here, beware Mirror Herb. Defensive core of Glowking Hatt. I dunno, that probably works? You'd have to do prep calcs and stuff against Zarude obviously depending on what Tera you think it is.

Hell yeah, got it in one message.

rancid kestrel Sep 29, 2025, 6:04 PM

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spiral thunder thanks and sorry for the late response - i have scald bc it has a burn chance wh...

What is Serene Grace coming into play here, sorry? Though I won't lie I thought HSteam had more PP than Scald. Sure.

For speed stuff - I would get a prep doc, there's one in the pins. From there, you can see what speeds your opponent can hit - for example, it'll tell you that a base 100 'mon can hit 236 at 0, 299 at 252 invested, and 328 at 252+.
This means if you have a 105 base 'mon, you know that if you must outspeed the base 100 'mon all else being neutral (so, not counting speed boosts or drops), you absolutely need to hit 329 - a bit of playing around in the teambuilder and you've got 216+ as what the 105 base 'mon needs - that's like nearly 40 EVs you can put somewhere else!

rancid kestrel Sep 29, 2025, 6:20 PM

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cerulean aspen we are now 1-1

Is it time for the legendary Telepathy Koko, lol? Sure, it and Crown would like ETerrain, but gods do you really wanna run that into ValTreads? I feel like not. Besides, Crown doesn't even look all that great here unless you pump it with Tera - Val, Treads, Tini, Hydrei, Aero all have its number.
I like your speed tiers into them, though their tiers are good too. I just don't think you can stop at 116 (MAero doesnt count) in ND, even 8mon. I wonder if they predict the Telepathy on Koko and don't try to leech off ETerrain? Their speed control is like, Scarf Tini/Hydrei, Booster Val, or MAero. I guess that's good speed control. Scarf Tini looks abusable by your Pala+Glisc, though, so maybe it's scarf Hydrei? But that hates your fairies unless its Flash Cannon predictions.
If I'm them, I leave behind Avalugg, it doesn't like the amount of special attackers you have. Milo can handle non-Tera Gliscor, probably. I think I also leave behind... MAero? It seems hard to bring into Koko, Palafin, Crown, Glisc... I like Weezing here and I think Milo has to come, which means some offensive piece is being left behind. Maybe it's Victini, it's not actually all that great here, but it's also a Victini.

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For you, I think Conk gets left behind, it doesn't provide anything aside SE prio against Hydrei, but it gets used as an entry for Val, Tini, Milo/Weez, MAero, hell even Avalugg. I think Sceptile also doesn't come, it seems hard to find a set that doesn't get chewed up by Weezing/Hydrei/Tini/Treads/MAero. Leaves you with Koko, Diancie, Pala, Crown, Gliscor, Swalot?
You can prob leave Swalot behind if you don't like it, but I think a well EV'd Swalot can be a huge PITA for their offensive 'mons like Val or Hydrei that don't carry the coverage for it. And you also don't want to be out removal of TSpikes. I think that Crown can be decent here potentially if it can hog the Tera, but it could also be left behind.
Palafin, could be a damage boosting item, Scarf Koko makes sense to me (Telepathy...! wild.) Gliscor I could see an offensive set but I do think it maybe needs to care about hazards. MDia does as MDia does, just beware coverage because a random Flash Cannon or Earth Power is going to destroy it.

cerulean aspen Sep 29, 2025, 6:23 PM

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rancid kestrel - For you, I think Conk gets left behind, it doesn't provide anything aside SE p...

yeah ty
I think this is def a telepathy koko week, all it really needs to do is click gleam anyways (and no matter the koko set it gets walled by treads anyways so...) probably nature's madness gleam uturn tbolt /discharge, or at least something along those lines

I'm actually dead scared of a mixed tera grass victini lol... energy ball v create uturn +1 kind of destroys me. I'm p sure I have to be super bulky gliscor specifically to check it.

rancid kestrel Sep 29, 2025, 6:26 PM

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Makes sense to me, yeah. At least a mixed Victini often has like, negative sustainability, and Gliscor is very sustainable inherently.

spare relic Sep 29, 2025, 6:50 PM

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rancid kestrel - Not a fan of your opponent's team. Sneasler seems out of place even with Indee...

Hi afairy!

I think hatterene might be good as a check to deo-speed. But I think hydrapple might have some merit as a check to zarude & excadrill with Tera. I think Tera fairy zarude comes into this game.

I think rightclicker said that I can tech my glowking for Sneasler. Another possibility is power herb dig Sneasler for unburden set.

Glowking is obviously pretty good here. Good into most of his top mons outside zarude maybe.

It’s between excadrill/indeedee on who else gets benched with coalossal. Tbf coalossal can check non HJK ace so there is some merit to bringing coalossal maybe. Exca can check glowking though and I don’t exactly have a flying so he can try and take advantage of that. Indeedee for unburden sneasler but like you said Sneasler can run power herb/white herb.

For my mons, from a glance it’s hard to tell who will be benched, I think all my mons have merit. Glowking for sure coming, tusk maybe for exca/sneasler. Tera blastoise looks decent. Cinder looks good offensive and Hatt is also good here in deo-speed. Jolt and fros are more in the fringe but they have a little merit.

spiral thunder Sep 29, 2025, 7:18 PM

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rancid kestrel What is Serene Grace coming into play here, sorry? Though I won't lie I thought ...

i didnt realise how it works lollll it doesnt come into play

thank you very much :))

rancid kestrel Sep 29, 2025, 7:59 PM

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spare relic Hi afairy! I think hatterene might be good as a check to deo-speed. But I think...

I think all that makes sense to me, yeah. I didn’t think about Power Herb Dig, that’s a clever tech for sure. I do think the logical bench for them is Indeedee, but I’m also biased against Sneasler terrain teams always trying to force in the terrain somehow, yknow?

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:24 PM

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@rancid kestrel hey

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Sup

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Thanks for helping me in draft a couple of days ago

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:24 PM

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Sure, happy to help!

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:25 PM

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I got my first opponent

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For the draft that I mentioned to you

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misty plumeBOT Sep 30, 2025, 3:26 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:27 PM

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Is this your team or theirs?

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:27 PM

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Theirs

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:27 PM

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Can you share yours?

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:27 PM

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Sure

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Her terra captain is Cloyster

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:33 PM

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carmine dragon

why is there a caly-s on my screen

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:33 PM

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Their league's tiering is wild.

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:34 PM

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It’s weird

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:34 PM

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jade solar why is there a caly-s on my screen

Chill

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:34 PM

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oh lmao

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i wasn't trying to be rude or anything

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but the sheer sight of it surprised me lol

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:34 PM

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Yeah

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lol

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:34 PM

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for a team built around it the person did well imo

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:35 PM

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Yeah

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Did hella research

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:35 PM

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for u i would suggest just straight up try and pressure him with rain

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:35 PM

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you've got the slots flipped.

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:35 PM

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huh what

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:35 PM

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nauJ is the CSR team

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:35 PM

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oh then u win the league

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ggs

lofty wigeon Sep 30, 2025, 3:36 PM

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Last match of the season

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Gen O

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9

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:36 PM

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jade solar oh then u win the league

but be careful of the rain and play carefully against possible scarf mons and ur basically set

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:37 PM

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jade solar oh then u win the league

lol

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I can’t terra him tho

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:37 PM

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even then

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it's a whole ass CSR

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:37 PM

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what was your tera again? hydrei?

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:37 PM

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this thing warranted yveltal on almost every team in ubers back in gen 8

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just shows how stupid the mon in

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:37 PM

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Haven’t chosen my terra captain yet

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:37 PM

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....thats a wild league choice to let matchups happen before a team is locked in.

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:38 PM

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wack

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:38 PM

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Definitely wack from me. Just been busy with college

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lol

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:38 PM

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i'd pick hydreigon. scizor as an outside option. but hydrei's the best option on your team for a tera captain if CSR is tera-banned

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:38 PM

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yeah tera drei fo sure

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:38 PM

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if you can tera CSR, tera CSR.

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:38 PM

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rancid kestrel if you can tera CSR, tera CSR.

who in their right minds would allow that LOL

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i run a ND ubers league and that thing is banned even with tera restrictions and stuff in there lmfao

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:39 PM

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who in their right minds would allow CSR, so. im not going to disregard any possibility.

lofty wigeon Sep 30, 2025, 3:39 PM

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One of. My first leagues you could free agent anytime once a week so people would just snipe a counter 10 mins before game time

jade solar Sep 30, 2025, 3:39 PM

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trueee

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:39 PM

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(also orbit ill get your matchup after i finish writing up for nauJ)

lofty wigeon Sep 30, 2025, 3:39 PM

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No worries I have till 2:30 to build

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:40 PM

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rancid kestrel who in their right minds would allow CSR, so. im not going to disregard any poss...

The person who is in charge of it is a board member of the Pokemon club at my college and I argued with her about her tier system and rules

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But oh well

lofty wigeon Sep 30, 2025, 3:41 PM

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Smash club runs mine lol

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 3:41 PM

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lol

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That’s fire

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 3:52 PM

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carmine dragon

So, you have preciesly six Pokemon you can bring, really. But that was kinda the intention/plan in building. Your opponent has a strange team, there's this like, rain subsection with Politoed, Kingdra, Palpitoed but not really, sorta Shifu/Cloyster/Mane. I'd guess that's the angle they take, because otherwise they kinda get rinsed by CalyS and Cinderace.
Their speed tiers are not good. They have two Pokemon above 100, and one of them is a Kadabra. This basically necessitates a scarf somewhere even on rain, and it kinda has to be Shifu. So, we're definitely expecting Mane, Shifu, Kingdra, and Politoed. So the question is the remaining two.
Their hazards are not great. Their removal stinks, it's not impossibly bad but its not good either. So much of their hazard stuff focuses around Cloyster, which means that they don't get the opportunity really to explore Shell Smash or whatever, yknow? Their second best setter is Nidoking which isn't great. Of course, your setting is kinda disregarded, too, with only SR on Hydrei. At least you have plenty of good removal.
If I'm them I bring Grimmsnarl and Cloyster. Screens is one of the only ways I can see your opponent being able to stomach hits from CSR, so I'd definitely bring it and just run a rain hyper-offense with screens. Cloyster can be Shell Smash, another avenue to outspeed CSR, but it can also just do hazard stuff.

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MMane is just an offensive option that outspeeds everything non-CSR, Politoed can be some wack lure set though given your access to VoltTurn on your secondary mons (hydrei rotom scizor ace) I don't think that there's much value in that. But it's gotta come for rain. Kingdra is a swift swim sweeper, it's faster than Caly under rain and HPump OHKOs no bulk CSR. Shifu is for sure a scarfer here IMO.
So, I definitely don't think there's any value in any of your baby mons. So I'd just run with your top six. If you want to surprise, Scarf Caly outspeeds even Scarf Shifu and Kingdra under rain, but it may struggle to get clean OHKOs, so you may need damage especially on the latter to do it. But also you have a Rabsca to just bring it back, lol. I'd consider Hydrei scarf here, it outspeeds Scarf Shifu (but not rain Kingdra) - DMeteor/DPulse, Dark Pulse, Uturn and a coverage move seems good here. Could see Surf/HPump to take advantage of the rain, but it kinda doesn't hit anything special, but a glance at the movepool doesn't seem motivating.
Cinderace I'd make utility, its not going to do a ton of damage in rain so Court Change, UTurn, etc etc. Rotom-Wash I'd make specially defensive, response to MMane and Kingdra - check calcs etc. Scizor can be physdef for Shifu and like, idk, Shell Smash Cloyster. Rabsca exists.

lofty wigeon Sep 30, 2025, 4:17 PM

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Just curious how long does it take for you to write these up ?

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 4:20 PM

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that one for nauJ took me about 25m based on when they posted their team and when i posted mine. yours that im about to post took me about 30m based on the nauJ posting timing and me finishing yours just now? but some take shorter, some take longer. it used to take me, idk, 45m-1h, but i think ive gotten better at cutting out redundant info, ive gotten faster at putting my thoughts together and interpreting it into words, etc.

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 4:20 PM

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lofty wigeon Last match of the season

Sun! Oh boy. And with a dash of Webs/Screens cheese. They kinda don't have the slots on the team to take advantage of it, but it's there. Unfortunately, Whimsicott doesn't get Rain Dance, but you do have a TTar! They are kinda whole-team into Sun, so like, it's just going to be sun, the question will be mostly slots 5 and 6 for them (moon moth wake tork). But it also does mean their speed situation, mathematically worse than yours, is kinda a bit moot given Proto and Chloro and what have you.
OTOH, you have sand Exca, which like, is a bit terrifying for them, yknow? IDK how you keep TTar alive, bc it's terrified of Moon Wake Lilligant, but you can at least turn the sun off at least once. Talonflame has situational priority in Gale Wings, Whimsi has prankster, Scarf Darkrai outspeeds the Protos (but not Lilligant!!)... It's not the end of the world, for sure. You'll just have to play well.
I don't like their hazards much. It's just Torkoal. Okay, they do technically have other things, but like, Defog Corv in a sun team? TSpikes IMoth in sun? Nah, that's not super real, yknow? Especially when they're strapped for slots as-is.
If I'm them, I see no reason to bring my core 4. I also feel obligated to bring Lilligant, because it's the only thing outpacing scarf Darkrai. That leaves one slot left. It's not Vikavolt, because you have good removal. Sylveon doesn't match well here, and Rhyperior doesn't either. It might be screens Grimm? If I'm them, I suspect that a lot of your anti-sweeper prep is going to be predicated around tight damage calcs that get really messed up with screens.

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For you, I think a SpD Rotom-Wash has to come, alongside Glowking. These are gonna be your primary answers to Moth and Wake, I'd think. PhysDef Mew can help with Lilligant and Moon, though it probably can't do both, yknow? Fully 252/252+ Mew does 60 min with Body Press to Moon while living Crunch. IDK. Alternative is like, physdef Rotom? But it folds to Lilligant. PhysDef Talonflame could be a good shout but it hates Moon Knock.
I do think it has to be scarf Darkrai, then TTar+Exca as your primary wincons. I don't know how you keep TTar alive, but them positioning around Exca if sand is up to get sun up is going to be real difficult for them, unless they do bring Corv I guess?
So yeah, Glowking Rotom-Wash [physdef answer to lilli/moon] TTar Exca Darkrai is what makes sense to me. There are probably different angles but I'm inclined to answer their sun sweepers defensively, so this is the angle I would take.

lofty wigeon Sep 30, 2025, 4:41 PM

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rancid kestrel - For you, I think a SpD Rotom-Wash has to come, alongside Glowking. These are g...

Thank you, I think whimscotts has to be screen support with taunt, then i can really abuse AV Ttar

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Worry seed disruptions seems valuable, turning off drought for the whole game is super intriguing to me

rancid kestrel Sep 30, 2025, 4:44 PM

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Does Worry Seed remain even beyond switching out? I wasn’t aware that it did.

lofty wigeon Sep 30, 2025, 5:22 PM

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Yes

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I've used it a ton in doubles

lofty sparrow Sep 30, 2025, 5:36 PM

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it does not????

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this is a major interaction in bh i know this personally

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you cant alter any mons ability/typing permanently

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it always goes away once they switch

lofty wigeon Sep 30, 2025, 7:38 PM

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lofty sparrow it always goes away once they switch

This might just be more of a testament that i am incredibly awful at doubles and my opponents don't switch much 💀

carmine dragon Sep 30, 2025, 9:42 PM

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rancid kestrel - So, you have preciesly six Pokemon you can bring, really. But that was kinda t...

Ah I see

silver nacelle Oct 1, 2025, 1:45 AM

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gen 6, opponent's team is on the right. Paging some local goats for inspiration, i'm ass

misty plumeBOT Oct 1, 2025, 1:45 AM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

solemn warren Oct 1, 2025, 10:20 AM

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silver nacelle gen 6, opponent's team is on the right. Paging some local goats for inspiration,...

Eviolite Gligar seems like a good

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Option

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(more later hold on)

silver nacelle Oct 1, 2025, 10:25 AM

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hp is allowed, figured i should mention

solemn warren Oct 1, 2025, 10:25 AM

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I could see this as a webs team with the Shuckle as a lead as you got plenty of hard hitters

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(I'm mid class so forgive me here)

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Gligar could serve as a defensive fallback piece (doesn't it have roost in this gen?)

silver nacelle Oct 1, 2025, 10:26 AM

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im ass class dont worry about it, i have a team i might go with, just figured a 2nd or 3rd set of eyes would be nice

solemn warren Oct 1, 2025, 10:26 AM

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Keldeo Secret Sword can deal with Sharpedo + webs delaying its Speed Boost

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Be thankful that's not the Mega

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4 Sand immunities too

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Manectric can slam Tornadus Sharpedo Roserade (flamethrower)

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And HP Fighting for tar

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And Houndoom too

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While scarf Magneton doesn't outrun Sand Rush Excadrill out of webs you can still trap it

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And I think it does under webs? Gotta check

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It does

silver nacelle Oct 1, 2025, 10:33 AM

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soz am at work

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https://pokepast.es/b491b5300ff7977d

misty plumeBOT Oct 1, 2025, 10:33 AM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

silver nacelle Oct 1, 2025, 10:33 AM

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this is what i cooked yesterday evening

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ah fk didnt mean to ping people lmaooo

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but yea the idea is to slowpivot into keld

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my issue with scarf mag is it doesnt even ohko drill

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so the idea i had was to get it in safely or into an eq then click magnet rise as it breaks my balloon but if i flinch ill shoot the computer

solemn warren Oct 1, 2025, 10:39 AM

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I'm not sure either

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252 SpA 30 IVs Magneton Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Excadrill: 176-208 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Shit

silver nacelle Oct 1, 2025, 10:42 AM

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ya so with magnet rise i wont have to ohko it

solemn warren Oct 1, 2025, 10:43 AM

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I HAVE AN IDEA

silver nacelle Oct 1, 2025, 10:43 AM

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!

solemn warren Oct 1, 2025, 10:43 AM

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Sturdy Magneton

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Wait nvm he'll switch

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Not even a double switch he'd have to misclick

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Or succumb to the pressure of getting outran under webs

silver nacelle Oct 1, 2025, 10:53 AM

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ya i like the prospect of webs

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well, still plenty of time til the game thankfully

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ty for looking at it

lofty wigeon Oct 1, 2025, 2:11 PM

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lofty wigeon Last match of the season

just realized i drafted gen 5 ou without really planning for it

rancid kestrel Oct 1, 2025, 3:06 PM

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silver nacelle https://pokepast.es/b491b5300ff7977d

Your oppoennt's team is bonkers slow. 111 highest, then down into double 95 followed by 90? That's their speed? You're going to be outpseeding them consistently. Like it's honestly a little bit incredible how slow their team is. Sure, Sharpedo has Speed Boost and Excadrill has Sand Rush, but like, that's really not justifiable. What's their speed control beyond that? Scarf Gallade or Houndoom?
I like your speed more. 108 to 97 is a bit questionable as a speed tier jump, but it's not like it matters in this match. 116 as the highest in an ND format is also a bit suspect, but again, doesn't matter here.
Their hazards are weird. Removal's quite nice, ND Rotom Defog is very good, and Exca's strong too. But their hazard setting leaves much to be desired. Roeserade's their primary setter? I don't know that I agree with that. I guess TTar can carry rocks to relieve the pressure from Exca, but Rocks on either of them in every single game is kinda rough. I like your hazard setting more, even if it is being mostly carried by Gligar and I guess Shuckle. Your removal is alarming, though, since it is exclusively Defog on exclusively Whimsi/Gligar. That's not good at all! If I'm your opponent, I don't even bring Defog Rotom, I just use Spin Exca and rely on Cofagrigus not coming, because the imbalance there means that if you ever want to remove, you gotta remove your own stuff too, but it isn't true for them. This makes your Gligar and Shuckle way worse.
Haxorus looks super good here with only Sylveon as a fairy and outspeeding basically everything - First Impression can ruin Sharpedo's life if it doesn't have Protect, but it should have protect. But like, Scarf Haxorus outspeeds everything and they don't really have good switchings - one ground immununity (Mold Breaker ignores Rotom's levitate) and one fairy immunity.

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MMane also looks super good here, they have one electric immunity and it's their primary sweeper (or should be, at least) and like, Flamethrower does 79 min to uninvested, and for a miss risk, Overheat is a clean OHKO. But then, like, what else? Sure they have some electric resists, TTar kinda does wall you, but it has non-existent recovery and is susceptible to chip pretty heavily.
If I'm them, I bring Torn, Sharpedo, a scarf Houndoom, Excadrill offensive, Mega TTar, and then one of Rotom, Gallade, or Roserade. You can make that two if you choose to drop Torn, bc it actually doesn't look super useful here IMO.
I do not understand this paste. Where is MMane? Why is Magneton here? I'm glad at least that you aren't trying Webs, with all due respect to Storm, Webs is meaningless at best and harmful at worst - see my points on Speed and Hazards as to why. But like, where is MMane? I can vaguely understand the DD Haxorus, I guess. Why is Heatran 252+ when that's a ton of meaningless speed? Based on Haxorus and Keldeo it looks like you have some understanding of draft speed, but then Heatran is full speed for no reason? What is Scald and Icy Wind for on Keldeo, what are the situations you're clicking those?

mint rain Oct 1, 2025, 3:19 PM

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can someone help me with my team? its the first one i'm making for real and i'll test it on elite four of sinnoh in pokemmo
https://pokepast.es/83c3ec0f3ca6ee89

rancid kestrel Oct 1, 2025, 3:20 PM

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@mint rain Hi, this server does not support PokeMMO as a format.

silver nacelle Oct 1, 2025, 3:20 PM

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ayyy i was hoping youd give me a writeup

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i'll take a bit and respond if you dont mind

rancid kestrel Oct 1, 2025, 3:20 PM

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No rush, stolik

mint rain Oct 1, 2025, 3:21 PM

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rancid kestrel <@543937491279806497> Hi, this server does not support PokeMMO as a format.

ok, sorry

silver nacelle Oct 1, 2025, 4:32 PM

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rancid kestrel - Your oppoennt's team is bonkers slow. 111 highest, then down into double 95 fo...

Apologies for taking so long, I tried to reformat my ramblings to make them a tad more comprehensible.

Ok, so, this is Gen 6, meaning, unless I'm doing something CATASTROPHICALLY wrong in the teambuilder, Exca is their only removal, no First Impression Haxorus, no Defog Rotom, and my only removal is Gligar, etc. That is, admittedly, pretty terrible, even for me as someone who doesn't draft much removal (I think it's a bait to drafting bad mons), but honestly nothing really jumped out at me when I was looking through the tiers (and also it's one of those structured ones, so i had to have an S tier, an A tier, etc) and I'm not really sure what I'd have to drop to get more removal options. If you have any recommendations, shoot me, I'm always down to use something I haven't used before (which, admittedly, is a large portion of the roster)
Yeah Haxorus does look really good here, which is why I figured, if I can get rid of Sylveon, I can kinda just click dd and then outrage 5 times (initial team had a trick Ring Target Whimsicott on it for this explicit purpose). I do think Scarf might be easier to use here.
Yeah I kinda just dismissed MMane after i saw how much damage it deals to Mega Tar. Probably bad call
Heatran is not a mon i've used much so I just looked at the ORAS OU spreads and liked the one that outspeeds Adamant Drill (244+), with the idea being to scout for if its Adamant orJolly with one of my bulky mons and play accordingly. Do you think I should go SpDef?
Yeah Magneton looks to me more like an overcook the more i look at it. Like I said before, the idea is to slow pivot / switch it in on an excadrill EQ with Balloon up and click Magnet Rise so i can trap kill it from 100 without dying (which according to my calculations 🤓 Mag can't do otherwise). Idea seems good in my head but pulling up into DrillTar with 2 4x ground weaks seems like asking for trouble. I think I'll just exit the kitchen and do MMane instead.

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As for the Keldeo, I think Scald is a good midground between Secret Sword and Pump (if I dont want to miss Pump and a Fighting resist is threatening to switch in, for example Gallade or Roserade). It still kills the likes of Houndoom and uninvested Drill, I think? Icy Wind was on one of the sample sets and i like the idea of being able to reliably kill a chipped down Roserade. Unfortunately, Gen 6, can't do Flip Turn. Also, on Scald, I honestly like fishing for hax, lol, im not going to lie. it's kind of my brand among the homies haha.

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i do thank you for your time fairy you the goat :)

rancid kestrel Oct 1, 2025, 5:34 PM

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silver nacelle i do thank you for your time fairy you the goat :)

Sure, missed that it's Gen6, but my notes don't super change a ton - maybe a little bit more about hazards but your perspective on hazards is already pretty radically different to mine, so it's no big deal.

The only note I want to make on your responses, since I think most are reasonable "you do you, it isn't how I'd do it but you do you" approaches on your part, is the speed stuff - don't use Smogon sets for EVs or moves or whatever.

Usage based tiers and Draft are so totally different in the builder, because in those formats you're expecting speeds across an entire field of options, becuase you have no expectation of what your team will bring. In draft, you know the exact 11 mons your opponent has access to.

Heatran with 252+ hits 278 speed. That doesn't outspeed Gallade at 252+, which hits 284. However, it does outspeed 252+ TTar at 265 and 252 Gallade at 259. But like, you just need 266 Speed to do that. All you need to do that is to have 208+ Speed. That's over 40 EVs you now get to put into another stat that would've otherwise gone wasted.

Now, this is not always gospel. Things like speed boosting or decreasing items/abilities/moves like Choice Scarf or Speed Boost or Sticky Webs, people being forced into non-Speed boosting natures to hit specific damage ranges, or even just bad speed creeping can make this slightly more chaotic, but like, taking the time to do a little bit of evaluation on what speeds your 'mons need to hit against 11 specific mons rather than an entire metagame.

silver nacelle Oct 1, 2025, 5:56 PM

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rancid kestrel Sure, missed that it's Gen6, but my notes don't super change a ton - maybe a lit...

Yeah no you asked about my spreads so I figured I should probably explain where my brain was at while making them, I do see the point on the notes you were making, still. The Heatran spread was admittedly just something i threw on there that would have probably gotten changed closer to the game - I don't tend to do lazy 252 252 unless theres a speed tier i need to match or, as was the case here, have literally 0 clue how the mon is best utilized, haha.

Glad you hammered the point on the Tran set home. I have to reevaluate how I want to use it, I suppose. I focused too much on the shiny rocks and the shiny plume/wisp and the shiny magma storm without considering what im actually going to click in the game. Thanks! Good talk, knew I'd get something if I posted here.

rancid kestrel Oct 1, 2025, 5:58 PM

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Yeah - it's more than just Heatran though, any 'mon can benefit from "what do I want this to outspeed" questions - in your case, for example hypothetically, MMane can dip a lot to just outspeed Torn, Haxorus can save a few EVs to avoid tying with Sharpedo or Houndoom, etc.

carmine dragon Oct 2, 2025, 3:40 AM

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how do I counter this team

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With my team

misty plumeBOT Oct 2, 2025, 3:40 AM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

carmine dragon Oct 2, 2025, 3:40 AM

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formal haven Oct 2, 2025, 3:43 AM

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This might be one of the best bulky Scizor matchups I have ever seen in my life

carmine dragon Oct 2, 2025, 3:43 AM

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Lol

formal haven Oct 2, 2025, 3:43 AM

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Is hidden power legal?

carmine dragon Oct 2, 2025, 3:43 AM

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Yeah

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I can’t terra CSR though

formal haven Oct 2, 2025, 3:44 AM

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Ah then its a lot worse tho

carmine dragon Oct 2, 2025, 3:44 AM

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Yeah

formal haven Oct 2, 2025, 3:44 AM

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Most likely run helmet physically bulky Scizor

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Caly can run DK + Barage with plot/cm and sub/encore

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Most likely standard scarf Hydra so you can u-turn onto the florges and get either Scizor or Cinderace in

carmine dragon Oct 2, 2025, 3:47 AM

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I was thinking of scarfing hydra

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Didn’t think of the u turn

formal haven Oct 2, 2025, 3:47 AM

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Think its U-turn, Draco, Flash Cannon and Dragon Pulse

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Or you can be cheeky and run physical scarf

carmine dragon Oct 2, 2025, 3:48 AM

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formal haven Or you can be cheeky and run physical scarf

On who?

formal haven Oct 2, 2025, 3:49 AM

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Hydra

carmine dragon Oct 2, 2025, 3:49 AM

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Hydrei?

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Gotcha

formal haven Oct 2, 2025, 3:49 AM

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You get steel wing to hit the fairies

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And the what I think will be tera fairy dragapult

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U-turn hits kinda grossly hard

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Are you still allowed to get a tera cap?

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For future matches

carmine dragon Oct 2, 2025, 3:51 AM

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Yeah

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On others

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Except Terra cap my restricted list mon

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Which was CSR

formal haven Oct 2, 2025, 3:51 AM

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Yeah fair enuf

carmine dragon Oct 2, 2025, 3:52 AM

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Yeah. The host made the rule after we’re done selecting

formal haven Oct 2, 2025, 3:52 AM

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That sucks

carmine dragon Oct 2, 2025, 3:52 AM

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Yeah

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It was because of me

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She knew I was going to cheese

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And she’s the best player in the club

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I was like damn

lofty sparrow Oct 2, 2025, 9:51 AM

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bulky sd scizor goes insanely hard

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oh wait oops that was already mentioned

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washtom also doesnt have a switchin except for pult and they really want that healthy to at least tera steel and rk scizor

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caly-s is caly-s

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 11:24 AM

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carmine dragon

what type of shit is this

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how do they get away with tera pult

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but u can't get away with tera CSR

lofty sparrow Oct 2, 2025, 11:41 AM

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how is tera caly-s the same level as tera pult 😭

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 11:42 AM

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lofty sparrow how is tera caly-s the same level as tera pult 😭

yeah but if someone has the stupid idea to let pult tera outside of ubers draft

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then might as well let CSR do that same shit no?

lofty sparrow Oct 2, 2025, 11:42 AM

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???

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if anything the inverse is true no

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if they already have caly-s legal then might as well just let pult tera

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 12:03 PM

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idk man

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that league is wack

rancid kestrel Oct 2, 2025, 2:26 PM

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carmine dragon

Bit of a shorter one here, sorry. Have you declared your TC yet? You should do that...

Why is Naclstack 0pt? Wild, that thing is usable. Anyways, this is probably going to be your toughest opponent, because Pult Meow and Lop all are huge threats to CalyS. You don't have the freedom to leave it at home, but expect a tough time for Caly for sure. Like, Scarf Meow (if it isnt Scarf Vish and Hazards Meow), Infiltrator Pult, Fake Out Lop, that kinda stuff.
Their speed blows, oh my goodness. 123 to 75? Enjoy so many free EVs into defensive stats, LOL. Scizor basically needs to run no speed! Oh no, you don't outspeed... Cottonee. Lol. Anyway their team is really just a top 4 or 5 (depends how much you respect Florges) and then a buncha irrelevant 'mons. Sorry Klawf.
Their removal is Florges, Cottonee isn't real. But they do have a lot of good ways to set hazards, sure. Court Change might be quite useful here if they do try to set a bunch of hazards - it's not like you can really set hazards anyway.

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They for sure bring Pult, MLop, Meow, and probably Vish. Florges kinda needs to come on account of removal. From there... I guess one of their Eviolite kids, probably Naclstack, could come to set a hazard? Klawf? Feels bad to be this dismissive about so many 'mons but like. They're not good, yknow? Spidops is not coming to get Webs changed onto their field, Gorsola isn't coming into CalyS, Cottonee/Tangela is terrified of Scizor/Ace... It's probably just Naclstack.
For you, none of your babies here matter. Maybe Munchlax could be cute into Pult, but Pult will have ways to hit Lax. Bring your default six, bulky Scizor like mentioned, I'm not super thrilled about setup CalyS personally (I'd Scarf, but you'll find I really like scarfing my fastest mon) but it's for sure usable. I'd scarf Rotom maybe? Scarf Trick can help but given that four of six of their mons either cant be tricked (MLop) or will happily take a scarf on most sets (Vish Meow Pult) I don't think it's super necessary.
Cinderace could also be the scarf if you want like, RHelm on Rotom for Vish/MLop. Or you could just not have a Scarf, that works too. Hydrei and Sciz I won't go into depth on, you got good advice given already. Rbasca might be able to pull off a Sash if you're reasonably confident about getting Court Changes off on.

carmine dragon Oct 2, 2025, 3:15 PM

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jade solar then might as well let CSR do that same shit no?

It’s rigged. Hate to say it

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She chose her team last minute

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Because it was odd numbers

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They didn’t want a bye week

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 3:38 PM

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different paldex league this time around got knocked out of QFs in the terap-bolt one but i'm glad i made POs. Week 4 in collo and i have this half sun matchup of all things to face, 1-2 -4 after a garg masterclass last MU. need help for this.

misty plumeBOT Oct 2, 2025, 3:38 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 3:39 PM

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https://pokepast.es/21b86297cfdbf51f

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team i made

rancid kestrel Oct 2, 2025, 4:33 PM

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jade solar different paldex league this time around got knocked out of QFs in the terap-bol...

Little bit of a quick one. Tusk Bundle TeraBolt is wild points-wise, and then to actually have usable things past that? Wack. Your team's neat, hard to see a strong defensive core and I think you're going to have a not fun time hazards-wise through your season, but it's definitely not a bad team.

SD Weavile sticks out to me as slightly strange, not sure I understand what the angle there is for. I guess it doesn't hurt but it seems like it's high potentiality for it to fall flat. I'm not sure what you're SDing on, yknow? Mandibuzz? Missy maybe, but Missy isn't coming.
What's Rock Slide for on Exca? Iron Head would hit all the same things except for hitting Mandi a bit less hard, but it gives you options for Bundle, Fairy Bolt, Florges, and I dont have the calcs up but surely it's better into Rilla?
Fez EVs confuse me, as do Zarude EVs. If you're Bulk Up on the latter, surely you wanna be investing more on SpD for Bolt Bundle? And the Fez EVs I just am gonna assume they're calcs-based but not having a particularly solid Bundle switchin seems worrying to me - surely 248/132+ isnt safe enough into Bundle?

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 4:35 PM

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rancid kestrel Little bit of a quick one. Tusk Bundle TeraBolt is wild points-wise, and then to...

mostly mandi, might just change it to band for immediate pressure, i thought it got sucker so i liked sd route but apparently not.
mandi, but yeah ihead is a better option.
252 SpA Iron Bundle Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 132+ SpD Fezandipiti: 118-139 (31.1 - 36.6%) -- 67.7% chance to 3HKO
yeah i think this engh, i want some bulk into punishing rilla but i prob take grass stab more than well and i can just go max spdef

rancid kestrel Oct 2, 2025, 4:36 PM

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I dunno that I'd rely on just 252 - they've got plenty of space to run Modest or Specs/a damage boosting item, in my mind.

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Like, yeah, they underspeed Weavile if Modest, but I'm not super scared of that if I'm them, yknow?

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 4:37 PM

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then if i get rocks up with exca it's takin 25% each switchin and i outlast it with fezan healthy engh

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if it's specs/scarf

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if modest then i just knock for free on it

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i'll make weav faster than modest just in case

rancid kestrel Oct 2, 2025, 4:39 PM

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I mean, if I'm honest, I see your lineup and I don't know that I'm super scared of Rocks up consistently - your setting is either tera hog Garg or Exca, and their removal is Tusk, Mandi, and Florges (kinda not real here but) - Tusk and Mandi both scare Exca and can get rocks off the field.

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But yeah, that is fair.

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 4:40 PM

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rancid kestrel I mean, if I'm honest, I see your lineup and I don't know that I'm super scared ...

if they're constantly forced so spin/defog, then zarude likes that and sets up on them fast enough and can't get punished past engh too if they're not encore bundle

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i might make a bit of a weird rude set by fixing it to live a 1-2 hydro's once terad + engh to outpace max speed tusk

rancid kestrel Oct 2, 2025, 4:41 PM

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Ye, that's fair. In the end it's a circular guessing game of where you place on the circle and where your opponent intends to place. I do think that the Fez EVs are fair, they're probably just not what I'd set it.

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 4:42 PM

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yeah i'll have to make it more spdef

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his main physical mons MU are mixed into fezan

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rilla doesn't do shit but tusk i just swap out and play better

rancid kestrel Oct 2, 2025, 4:42 PM

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I also tend to be a proponent of the "one mon for physdef one mon for spdef" mindset which does influence my perspective.

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 4:42 PM

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same here lol

rancid kestrel Oct 2, 2025, 4:43 PM

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So mixed EVs in my head make me go "oh so you just take more from both sides unnecessarily" which like. I probably should be better about it.

cerulean aspen Oct 2, 2025, 5:54 PM

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jade solar different paldex league this time around got knocked out of QFs in the terap-bol...

how are you in another one???
tera fairy zarude wins gg go next lol

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 5:55 PM

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cerulean aspen how are you in another one??? tera fairy zarude wins gg go next lol

i move as fast as lightning

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😂

cerulean aspen Oct 2, 2025, 5:55 PM

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just invest enough into spe to outrun ninetales
bulk up synth (leaf guard blocks wisp anyways) knock off traiblaze or something along those lines

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this is that one mu where zarude's ability is useful

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 5:55 PM

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cerulean aspen just invest enough into spe to outrun ninetales bulk up synth (leaf guard block...

yeah but if he brings sun then pump is just lmao

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i take 0 then

cerulean aspen Oct 2, 2025, 5:56 PM

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pump from bundle?
as I said spdef zarude w/ enough speed for ninetales
u don't need that much atk since you bulk up on this team forever

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I could also see a tera grass band set go super hard once bolt teras but again mandi is kind of a pain

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since CB rilla revenges a lot of your offensive pieces (actually, kinda all of them)

jade solar Oct 2, 2025, 6:15 PM

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cerulean aspen pump from bundle? as I said spdef zarude w/ enough speed for ninetales u don't n...

https://pokepast.es/1b2d76cd61f1eb71

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so i changed the sets a bit

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have to fix with what u've said so far

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but what if he does not bring sun here

lofty wigeon Oct 3, 2025, 3:44 AM

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rancid kestrel - Sun! Oh boy. And with a dash of Webs/Screens cheese. They kinda don't have the...

Did you know grimm learns Hammer Arm and ohkos ttar 💀

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i learned today

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 3:46 AM

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Unfortunate, that'll happen. I had a similar experience with Low Kick Kingambit in a league sometime in 2024. Gotta stand up and learn the thing and move forward.

lofty wigeon Oct 3, 2025, 3:52 AM

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He didn't even bring Tork

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All my planning for the match up was gone so he definitely got me

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 4:01 AM

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That'll happen, for sure. I had something similar where a major piece I prepared for just didn't show up and I never mentally recollected from the confusion I had on team preview.

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 2:58 PM

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hey
im participaiting in a gen 9 singles draft and they are running their own tier list
are there any pokemon you feel are miss tiered?
apart from dragapult being legal
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NmcdcQTbWk3Gdl9_elhjdxJJzzWscXauHDQYYR63KzE/edit?gid=1390405613#gid=1390405613

Google Docs

PDL Kaderbau Vorlage Season VI

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its in german so im going to translate most important stuff

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basically you have 12 picks with 11.500$ budget and you have 2 teras, 1 tera 1000$ and below and the other tera 500$ and below
and the teras have only 1 type

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 3:00 PM

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What are the numbers next to the types? Base Speed, it looks like?

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And anything about 1000 can't Tera at all?

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 3:01 PM

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rancid kestrel What are the numbers next to the types? Base Speed, it looks like?

yes

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 3:01 PM

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rancid kestrel And anything about 1000 can't Tera at all?

1000 can tera but not above

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same with 500

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 3:10 PM

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Okay. My first instinct is that this structure suffers from collapse at the top - you have a ton of variance in the 2.000 tier, ranging from Tera-locked Torn-T/Enam-I, Jirachi, Cyclizar, Iron Bundle, Baxcalibur, and Ogerpon-H - really terrible picks for that budget, in the same price point as Terapagos, Dragapult(?!), Garchomp, LandoT - top tier Pokemon generally speaking.

In a structure that better resembles modern Gen 9 Draft top level perspectives, there's more flexibility at the top - Dragapult costing the same as a non-Tera Iron Boulder is beyond bonkers, and would probably be one of the first things people would notice. the 1.750 tier suffers similarly - non-Tera Kingambit is pretty terrible, and it's competing with Meowscarada and Greninja, some of the best 'mons in the metagame?

I don't see any immediate underprices anywhere (other than Pult I guess, LOL), the idea of picking 12 'mons with only 11.500 budget when subpar Pokemon like Cyclizar and Galarian Zapdos cost 2.000 is incomprehensible to me - is the intent to lower the power of the draft teams? Then why allow stuff like Pult or Garchomp in the first place, that's recipe for teams stuck with Vaporeons and Bombirdiers getting swept by the 2.000s mons.

It's less that I think individual Pokemon are mistiered, it's more that the combination of a 12.500 budget, the tiers structured as they are, and an expectation that you need twelve Pokemon means that this whole board I think is pretty far from modern SV Draft understandings - I think if you asked the folks doing tiering for the big team tours or leagues, they would balk at a lot of the decisions being made here.

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 3:15 PM

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rancid kestrel Okay. My first instinct is that this structure suffers from collapse at the top ...

yeah

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do you think its a good idea if i compare the list to some smogon point lists

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and thank you for the detailed response

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 3:21 PM

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I don't think so, no. Smogon point lists (for our tournaments) rely on 8 'mon drafts, adding another 4 drastically shifts a lot of things. I would use the Draft Example Board linked below as a starting off point to compare.

Please realize, though, that the board I'm linking is 115 points for 9-12, with the most expensive 'mon starting at 20 - you're spending about 17.4% of your budget on the most expensive 'mon. While 2.000 out of 12.500 is only 16%, you also don't have the flexibility of 19, 18, and so on - your next tier down is 1750 - you can see the clumping in your league's scoring at the top, compared to the Smogon tiering, even if you push aside the questionable tiering choices and the expectation of 12 compared to the Smogon range.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ehfZA4RbUldU5tMg1RrebztOvVHpLNsRYVejeBz3jMw/edit?gid=171239#gid=171239

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But just as a numbers comparison - let's say you take everything 15+ in Smogon-side and go, okay, let's call that 2.000 in PDL - even then, yall have 5 more 'mons in 2.000 than Smogon does at 15+, and that's flatly ignoring like, the fact that it wouldn't be 15+, it'd be 18+ (4 compared to 28) because 1.750 and 1.500 exists.

But like, look at some of these things around the 15-17 point section. Palafin is flatly banned in your league, but is 17 in Smogon's sample. Cyclizar is 7 points on Smogon, even with Tera, in a 115-point pool - for y'all, it's Tera Banned and the maximum cost it can be.

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The league's board isn't unusable. I'm being a bit mean, your league will run fine, but I expect that it will result in a structure where folks will fall into one of three categories

people who try to balance their budget and get steamrolled because you can't get 12 mons for 12.500 and have 'mons that are decent to use
people who grab one or two high powered mons to be their team focal points and succeed because they got things that actually are underpriced (pult) or at a decent cost (deo-s, darkrai, lando, iv as examples)
people who grab one or two high cost mons to be their team focal points and fail because things like kinambit, iron boulder, iron moth, gliscor, etc can't carry a roster of 12 that's weaker off because of their cost given that they're victims of top-level price clumping

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Which honestly doesn't sound like a super enjoyable league to me.

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 4:18 PM

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rancid kestrel The league's board isn't unusable. I'm being a bit mean, your league will run fi...

so is the best way to just hope to get the actually good 2000 mons and just pick whatever 250 mons to get more good ones

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 4:47 PM

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vague trout so is the best way to just hope to get the actually good 2000 mons and just pick...

I dunno about that. Like, Dragapult and 5 250 mons are not gonna be a winning team, yknow? But getting, I dunno, 4-6 usable 'mons with most of your budget leaves you with 6 'mons to fill out with 250s, which costs 1500 - not terrible, all things considered.

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 4:48 PM

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rancid kestrel I dunno about that. Like, Dragapult and 5 250 mons are not gonna be a winning te...

that makes sense

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like having a strong base out of 5 mons that are actually good for their price and then go for low underpriced mons

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 4:48 PM

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You can aim for something between 1 and 3, where you get, I dunno, two or three mons between 1500 and 1000 that are usable, a single 2000 that is actually worth your time, and then just fill out from there based on what your draft is missing.

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 4:50 PM

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yeah i might go for that

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but there are some really nice 1750 mons

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like meowmeow and ninja frog

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 4:51 PM

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Yeah, those are probably the two standout best ones.

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 4:51 PM

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galarian slowking also decent

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but that would be it for me in that tier

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 4:52 PM

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Everything else is probably a touched too overpriced for the league structure/tera rules. Mew maybe not, Latias maybe not, but I'm not super motivated by most anything else.

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 4:52 PM

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yeah

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and they have some really nice underpriced mons

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like blastoise for 250 or 500

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 4:53 PM

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I think Glowking's problem is that you can never select it as your first Pokemon, so you're always in a situation where you're either spending 1750 after spending a ton on your lead 'mon, or you're picking it first and then going "cool my first pick was a support pick I can't build around"

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 4:53 PM

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and i will probably dive into some teras on smogon

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 4:53 PM

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rancid kestrel I think Glowking's problem is that you can never select it as your first Pokemon...

yeah

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i have to somehow pray to get pult

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and then somehow get him aswell

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 4:54 PM

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I wouldn't expect it, frankly, but that'll depend on luck.

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 4:54 PM

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yeah

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 4:54 PM

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But like, there's enough usable picks at the top end - are y'all doing 16 player or 8 player pools?

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 4:54 PM

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but last time pult got picked after like 5 6 rounds

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 4:55 PM

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rancid kestrel But like, there's enough usable picks at the top end - are y'all doing 16 player...

8

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pult is not really loved somehow

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i remember i wanted him last time then got sniped bcs i was 7th

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 4:57 PM

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Okay, yeah, you'll be able to get something of value even if you're eighth pick - Darkrai, LandoT, DeoS, IV, Pult, Latios, Tusk, Terap - eight mons, unordered, all in the 2000 tier that are reasonable enough picks.

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Now, obviously, some of these are better than others. But it's not like being pick 7 or 8 means you're doomed.

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 4:57 PM

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is darkrai really that good

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i like him and would like to draft him but isnt he hard to navigate

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 4:59 PM

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Darkrai has a free item slot, very good offensive stats, plenty of cool utility moves even if Sleep is banned, a type that doesn't actively harm it. It's not the easiest 'mon to use properly, but it's for sure easy to just slap a choice item, stab, and three coverage moves and most of time be the fastest thing on the field, if not the fastest thing on the field.

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 5:01 PM

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sleep has a clause where only one pokemon can be put to sleep

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would you run hypnosis with darkrai

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 5:01 PM

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Sleep on Darkrai is a bit of a "noob trap" - it's dangerous to use but has a lot of payoff if it does work. But it's not great, IMO, but Darkrai can do a lot even if you entirely ignore sleep.

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 5:04 PM

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really really thanks for the help. will wait for the draft order to be published so i can go from there with my draftplan

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if you dont mind i would ask questions here if i have some in the future

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 5:05 PM

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No worries, happy to help, yeah. I think that the league is a bit strange in how it's approached things, but depending on draft order and what's available, I think you have a good first step towards not falling into a 2.000 Cyclizar pitfall. You're welcome to come back in the future with more drafting or teambuild prep questions, that's what this place is for.

vague trout Oct 3, 2025, 5:06 PM

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rancid kestrel No worries, happy to help, yeah. I think that the league is a bit strange in how...

lmao

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yeah i would love 2 thanks again have a great day

rancid kestrel Oct 3, 2025, 5:06 PM

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You as well!

spare relic Oct 4, 2025, 6:20 PM

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rancid kestrel I think all that makes sense to me, yeah. I didn’t think about Power Herb Dig, t...

Update on the seasonal matchup: got haxed a bit but I still comfortably won https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9draft-2455202798

the zarude ended up being Tera ghost which is not surprising. Drapple and lass really came in clutch

[Gen 9] Draft: siroperation vs. iifwm - Replays - Pokémon Showdown!

Watch a replay of a Pokémon battle between siroperation and iifwm! Format: [Gen 9] Draft; Date: Oct 4, 2025

rancid kestrel Oct 4, 2025, 6:23 PM

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Glad to hear it, well done!

spare relic Oct 4, 2025, 6:24 PM

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Ace could have cleaned the end game but got critted by Trailblaze which was tuff but a win is a win

silver nacelle Oct 5, 2025, 12:40 PM

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Aye fairy you were right... mmane went stupid

misty plumeBOT Oct 5, 2025, 5:54 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

spare relic Oct 6, 2025, 12:18 PM

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Okay so this is round 6 for seasonal, MUs are getting harder for sure

cerulean aspen Oct 6, 2025, 2:47 PM

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wow another seasonal post! woopee
2-1 record so far heading into this week, feeling p good
but there's another Tera Victini blobsweat

misty plumeBOT Oct 6, 2025, 2:47 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rancid kestrel Oct 6, 2025, 6:26 PM

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cerulean aspen wow another seasonal post! woopee 2-1 record so far heading into this week, feel...

Remind me what your league's Z-Move rules were

cerulean aspen Oct 6, 2025, 6:32 PM

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rancid kestrel Remind me what your league's Z-Move rules were

(tera?)

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z is banned its sv nd

rancid kestrel Oct 6, 2025, 6:42 PM

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spare relic Okay so this is round 6 for seasonal, MUs are getting harder for sure

Not a fan of your opponent's speed situation. They kinda need scarf on Typh/Lando and Spin on DeoS, but even then, their speed kinda is just "DeoS outspeeds everything and then I only ever get outsped" otherwise. I guess it's not difficult for them to bring Hyph... But yeah, rough situation for them. Cuz like, look at Cinderace. You do need to run Jolly to outspeed Zarude, but that's so many free EVs you don't need to worry about putting in Speed, yknow?
They have a surprising amount of setting, but it's just Spin on Terap to remove. What does Terap do to Froslass? Flamethrower? Also like, setting a ton of hazards isn't super exciting when you're facing down Court Change Cinderace. It's also a fair bit spent on Qwil/Klef/Quil, and like, my guess is two of those three get left behind, so.
What's their response to Shell Smash, I wonder? Mirror Herb on DeoS? Maybe Mirror Herb Lando/Typh, but I don't think you can really safely do that, but like, what is the other option? Surely it isn't DeoS, but like, maybe it's ESpeed DeoS to get around the priority stuff?

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My guess is that they leave behind Quilladin and Klefki. I actually do think that Qwil is a good response to your Apple, and Intim Cycling w/ LandoT against Tusk or Ace seems useful too. Klefki's like, fine, but it's also the default "oh Apple needs to beat this and will use Tera to do so". I guess if it's Tera Ground (into Zarude and Lando...?) then Qwil kinda doesn't help. Quill just doesn't seem super useful into Ace Lass Toise.
If I'm you, I leave Jolteon behind - hard to see what it's hitting well here, Ghost+Electric isn't a super great set of coverage here, between immunities and resistances and a lack of Tera. It's not like you're particularly fiending for the speed, either. I also think I leave... Glowking behind? Hatt seems super useful into Klefki and the hazard stacking, but maybe we aren't worried about Klefi. I also don't like Glowking into Hyph and Zarude much at all.
I could see Ace being Band or some other damage boosting item, again beyond a telegraphed Scarf it doesn't have to worry about outspeeding stuff, and it has the defensive EVs to mess with calcs from DeoS or Hyph or whatever. Froslass could be setting, if you can figure out how to make it Flamethrower-proof (Tera Ghost? Surely you want Tera on Apple tho...) it can ruin Terap's life. Hell even just DBond trading down seems useful to me. Scarf lets you surprise the scarf Hyph/LandoT and ruin their speed structure if you like that angle.
Tusk I could see being utility, I think Tusk suffers from their intim cycling more than Ace does, so I don't want to be in your shoes trying and failing to Bulk Up a ton and going nowhere. Blastoise is probably Shell Smash, it can Tera if it wants and Apple doesn't need it - Dark seems usable here, as does Fairy. Apple is Apple, you'll figure out how best you wanna run it and whether it needs the Tera probably. And then Hatt could be some utility set, maybe with HWish to bring back Apple/Toise for a round 2 potentially.

rancid kestrel Oct 6, 2025, 6:58 PM

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cerulean aspen wow another seasonal post! woopee 2-1 record so far heading into this week, feel...

What's with their speed, what? 100 86 85x2 80? Huh? This isn't even a Trick Room team either, it's just Like That. They have Prankster, I guess, and good scarfers, but like, I can't say I understand their intent at all. So many of your mons are not gonna need to run speed at all! Sure, they have good scarfers, but like, I dunno, rough speed situation all around for them. Koko has to run 16+ or 132 to outspeed Tini, and like, can't even outspeed the 80+s which scarf or rapid spin or whatever, so like... So many EVs free for investment elsewhere!
Oh man. You'd think someone failing to invest in speed would have, I dunno, a killer hazards game, but they kinda don't. Sure, they have good removal, but like, they can only set SR, and it's 2.5 mons who don't want to set SR, Clefable, and sorta Terapagos (that's the .5 btw). So like, they can keep stuff off the field well enough, but like, setting is just not in their wheelhouse. At least EP+IB Terap (if it finds the space for both) can destroy both your primary setters, and Rotom+Corv can scare Glisc+Diancie individually.
If I'm them, I don't see a ton of value in Clefable here. MDia gives it a hard time, Crown and Gliscor scare it, it can't really stand up to Palafin/Koko - it can stand up to one of them well enough, but not really both - and anything it can do damage-wise is kinda limited to niche situations, like surprising Glisc w/ IB or Palafin with TBolt, it doesn't seem like super useful to me.

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I think I also leave Mamo at home, though Grimm is another viable option to leave behind. Momo scares Scep and Glisc yes, but Glisc is already pretty scared here against Tini Wash Terap and is Scep really coming into a game agaisnt Tini, Mamo, Corv? I don't really think so, if I'm your opponent. But maybe I'm a Sceptile disrespecter. Grimm stays home if there isn't much use for Screens, but I think that Kommoo and Tini are both happy behind screens, so I think it does come.
For you, I think Sceptile stays at home, see above, and then either Swalot or Conk stay at home. You could maybe leave the non-tera'ing Glisc/ICrown, but like, it's not like these mons are bad in their default types, and like, they aren't terrible here. The lack of certainty helps too. I just don't see the value of both Swalot and Conk in this set, and which one you leave behind will probably matter which one you value more - Swalot can tank specially defensive stuff better, which is like, most of their team, but Conk provides a bit of unique benefit against stuff like Terap and Mamo from an offensive POV.

cerulean aspen Oct 6, 2025, 7:01 PM

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Specifically very scared of just being run over by Kommo-o + screens, it has plausible coverage for everything + tera means even scarf koko / speed booster crown aren't sure checks, thoughts?

rancid kestrel Oct 6, 2025, 7:07 PM

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Yeah, that's going to be a major avenue for them to win games - though obviously it does take turns of setting up that you can mimic with your own Koko in theory. I don't see any like, surefire "op now you can't do this" buttons, especially when you're facing down Tera Kommo-o behind Screens, but like, short of Prankster DBond or whatever, I'm not sure there is one of those. Conk or Scep can maybe Brick Break and then depending on Tera you can go from there? But like, that's not surefire thing, it's not like Conk's motivated to stay in on Grimm, obviously.

cerulean aspen Oct 6, 2025, 8:00 PM

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rancid kestrel Yeah, that's going to be a major avenue for them to win games - though obviously...

since koko doesn't have to invest in speed, was thinking perhaps mirror herb koko w/ cm roost
since if terap doesn't have toxic (it really shouldn't into mdia glisc crown conk) koko should 1v1

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as well as dealing with clangsoul / idbp kommo-o

spare relic Oct 6, 2025, 10:37 PM

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rancid kestrel - Not a fan of your opponent's speed situation. They kinda need scarf on Typh/La...

Hi afairy!

Yea basically your assessment is what I was about. Their hazard game is pretty strong as they have an abundance of hazard setters even with their cheap pointer in Quilladin. I’m not sure froslass is that reliable in spin blocking since pagos has dark pulse & flamethrower that can easily 2hko it & lass doesn’t really do anything back.

For their speed tiers they do have deoxys-speed, but after that it’s a huge drop off. When I saw this team from a glance I immediately assumed scarf Lando is a possibility since he won’t want a tusk or ace outspeeding his team so easily. I also have 3 of the slowest mons of all time so it’s not like I have the upper hand entirely.

Yea about the mons they are bringing, top 4 pretty much seems locked. The problem is the other 3 they all seem pretty bringable. Quil is looking like the obvious one out but ig it can check tusk with eviolites+set hazards against my team? But like they already have stuff like Lando and zarude for the tusk+ other spikes setters like deoxysS and klefki. Hyphlosion is the one I’m scared about because he is definitely going to abuse the fact I have no natural ghost resist so free specs/scarf spamming eruption/shadow ball. Hyph is especially going to be looking to abuse glowking.

For fish and klefki I think they brought those combos to most of their matches based on the replays I saw. Klefki can set spikes infront of hatt especially if it has steel coverage+ it can thunder wave ace & dazzling gleam tusk in a clutch. still this is not an ideal match up for klefki into ace toise tusk hatt apple jolt etc. qwil can check ace and apple like you said so its the most likely one to come.

rancid kestrel Oct 6, 2025, 10:40 PM

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How is Klefki setting Spikes on Magic Bounce Hatterene, sorry?

spare relic Oct 6, 2025, 10:40 PM

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If it brings like steel coverage to scare Hatt out, not sure how much it does but I’m assuming it does enough to force a switch

rancid kestrel Oct 6, 2025, 10:41 PM

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0 SpA Klefki Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 140-168 (54.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You have more ability to invest in defenses than they do in offenses, I'd think.

spare relic Oct 6, 2025, 10:42 PM

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Hmm ig that’s true

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For my mons, I have an idea on what’s bringable and what’s not. Like you said BU tusk is hard to bring since Lando intimidate. And I want coverage like ice spinner and cc hit Lando, zarude and pagos+headlong for qwil klefki and hyphlosion+rapid spin for removal. So no bu tusk probably

This is glowking roughest mu so far. It definitely doesn’t like dealing with hyphlosion, zarude, lando, etc. fwiw it has good coverages moves so if I look to bring it I can definitely explore that.

Ace looks strong as usual. Probably going to force scarf lando+qwilfish but I do have coverage like zen to hit fish anyway.

Hatt definitely looks ideal with the hazard blocking+deo speed check(sorta)

Drapple looks like it will probably be busy trying to deal with rude+lando. I think I might have to build some tech for hyphlosion somewhere.

Toise is the usual dynamic. Shell smash amazing potentially but always have to watch out for mirror herb.

For the fringes. Bolt beam jolt can potentially work here but it will struggle to break stuff like defensive pagos and Tera zarude. Froslass can set hazards but not exactly reliable in spin blocking pagos since coverage.

rancid kestrel Oct 6, 2025, 10:53 PM

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Makes a lot of sense, yeah. I personally leave behind Jolt and Glowking, I think both are not good enough to justify over other 'mons. I'm guessing their scarfer is Hyph, so I'd make my scarfer Lass personally. But Scarf Lass ruins both of their scarfers while also outspeeding non-Scarf DeoS

spare relic Oct 6, 2025, 10:59 PM

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The trickiest part is what do I do into terapagos lol bulky pagos seems hard to pressure

rancid kestrel Oct 6, 2025, 11:03 PM

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My guess would be between Ace, Tusk, even Toise, you can probably keep it consistently struggling to do things that aren't boosting up to sweep

spare relic Oct 6, 2025, 11:10 PM

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Hmm ic

cerulean aspen Oct 7, 2025, 3:22 PM

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ND Ubers
the ghost resists are MAudino and Staraptor into Tera Spectrier...

misty plumeBOT Oct 7, 2025, 3:23 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

cerulean aspen Oct 7, 2025, 3:23 PM

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on the other hand palkia looks quite insane

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(Arc-Elec on my side, Arc-Psychic on theirs)

rancid kestrel Oct 7, 2025, 3:23 PM

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Terap's a ghost resistance! But yeah lemme put some thoughts together and all that.

cerulean aspen Oct 7, 2025, 3:24 PM

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that is true

rancid kestrel Oct 7, 2025, 3:25 PM

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Besides, the idea of Tera Spec is to go "oh you resist me how quaint. SE Tera Blast" and like, Stellar Terapagos is a Uno Reverse Card to that.

cerulean aspen Oct 7, 2025, 3:25 PM

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honestly keep thinking terap is just a big bonk machine with tera starstorm

rancid kestrel Oct 7, 2025, 3:25 PM

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I mean. Ain't that true in any Terap meta? /lh

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Okay I'm going to stop getting distratced and begin my writeup

rancid kestrel Oct 7, 2025, 4:01 PM

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cerulean aspen ND Ubers the ghost resists are MAudino and Staraptor into Tera Spectrier...

Some immediate thoughts about their team - if they've built entirely around Spectrier, why is it just Spectrier? Why not CSR? Not allowed in the draft despite CIR obviously being allowed? Wack choice. From there, their options rapidly decrease in luster - Arceus Psychic is definitely not one of the better Arceus options, especially in a metagame where (presumably) Pursuit is back in the game. Ho-Oh and Garchomp are fine, and probably a solid third and fourth, but then it rapidly craters from there - UrsaBM can't be up to being fifth best in this power level, and then your sixth best 'mon is what - Pech? Ferro? MBlast? I guess these aren't terrible 'mons, but like, is there ever a world where Aurorus or Togekiss or Bisharp come? I kinda don't think so.
I don't like their speed structure a ton. I'm not super high on Psychic Arc, and it kinda has to be the glue between the sorta one-time "I'm going to be a huge pain" Spectrier and what, Garchomp at 102? You don't really have a way to take advantage of the speed failure here, barring like, Dark Pulse Deoxys or whatever, but like, it's not an ideal situation for sure. I also don't see a ton of speed control on their team - what's holding Scarf here? Blastoise can Shell Smash, but that's not really speed control. Is it Scarf Chomp? Surely it isn't Scarf Spec - I mean, this match here I can see some value in Scarf if they have an alternative plan to take care of Terapagos-S, but like, what's their usual plan? It doesn't seem good. They don't even have access to TR as sorta the anti-speed control, beyond Arceus.

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I like your speed structure. Good scarf options in Lele and Palk, a touch of speed control in Treads, you have Deo, Arc-E is actually a not-subpar Arceus type to my knowledge. Your speed tiers are reasonable, though I have my doubts on some of your Pokemon being particularly viable picks into a normal game - sorry to OgerC but you probably never Tera, and Staraptor is like, struggling with power creep in modern SV Draft, let alone NDUBers stuff.
I don't really like your opponent's hazard play. It's a buncha mons that don't want to carry SR, Garchomp and Ferrothorn being like the sole exceptions. The removal is kinda just MBlast and Ho-Oh, which don't get me wrong, are plenty good at removal. I just then look at a buncha mons happier to set SR/Spikes (sorta, this Deo kinda doesn't want to) and remove (Arc-E kinda doesn't want to Defog) and like, yeah they have Ferro HoOh, but I like yours better personally, I dunno.
If I'm them, Spec ArcP Chomp HoOh are mandatory. Can't leave home without them. Chomp here probably has to be a scarfer, ArcP is an Arceus - I can see a CM set doing well into you - Spectrier can be like, honestly I'd maybe run just solo AstBarr, maybe with a Ground Tera Blast (seems best into you persoanlly) and then some nonsense techs to make Terap's life a pain - Taunt, Encore, Sub, that kinda stuff. Ho-Oh kinda doesn't have a ton of set variety, but I haven't deeply examined their movepool. I'd make it SpD
I think I then bring Ferro and Pech - your best removal is Spin, so they can do some good hazard stuff. Make Ferro SpD and Pech PhysD since those match decently into your attackers, and Ferro can get a bit of help from HoOh into stuff like Deo. Pech also makes your Terap's life way way harder - if you don't have Dark Pulse (and hell even if you do) Pech is a nasty POS into your Terap.

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If I'm you, NGL I kinda don't know how to use CIR properly but I'll trust you do, so CIR + Terap + ArcE are probably your core. ArcE can be utility with SpD investment here, I think, outside Garchomp it isn't super threatened by much damage-wise (as much as you can say that in NDUbers), but also like, I dunno that you really have the room to put utility elsewhere. Terap and CalyI you'll need to figure out, Terap's probably not utility here LOL given that it's your first Spec answer, and CalyI I'd never draft personally because I'm bad with it.
A special attacker, a physical attacker, and a SpD utility mon. Let's add DeoS and Scarf Palkia for offense, and then... PhysD Treads? I dunno really how much physical defense you need, TBH, outside of Garchomp, but like, what else is your PhysDef response? I guess CIR is naturally bulky and isn't investing (much) in Speed, though you may wanna outspeed 0 UrsaBM, so CIR can maybe tank physical hits from Chomp for Treads? And like, Sacred Fire is Physical but Treads doesn't want to take that hit...
Surely the answer isn't PhysDef Audino/MAudino. It might be, though, LOL. But like, where's your removal then? On Arceus? Wack. Maybe you just don't worry about a PhysDef mon focus and just use CIR for it. Then you can bring utility in Oger/Treads, change the scarfer to Lele and let Palkia use a different item, or something. That last 'mon is probably pretty flexible depending on how your build comes together.

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That's the first time I've hit character count on just three bullet points...

cerulean aspen Oct 7, 2025, 4:14 PM

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rancid kestrel That's the first time I've hit character count on just three bullet points...

blobsweat
okay let's go through this

Their largest threats are Sacred Fire / BB Ho-Oh (very hard for me to switch into)
Smash Stoise (unfortunately +2 stoise outspeeds deoxys)
For the above, bulky Palkia is my only answer (best switchin to sacred fire, also resists mstoise outside of dragon pulse)
either that, or physdef arceus refresh / recover for ho-oh and find something else for mstoise.

Spectrier must Tera Blast Fighting for Terapagos if it wants to hit it at all, maybe Snarl / CM / Disable but that's kinda gimmicky.

Scale Shot / SD / EQ Garchomp could come, I don't really have an EQ switchin (outside of mega fake Staraptor) at +2.

rancid kestrel Oct 7, 2025, 4:18 PM

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Sure, I can see a bulky Palkia making more sense than a Scarf Palkia here.
Ye, Spec either just needs to go "I'm gonna Tera Fighting and hope I can get you before you get me" which will be an EV/calc fight, or do some silly nonsense like you said, Snarl CM Disable Encore Sub, that kinda stuff.
RE: Chomp
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Audino-Mega: 268-316 (65.3 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Audino-Mega Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 282-332 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm maybe dancing with the devil here, but like.

cerulean aspen Oct 7, 2025, 4:19 PM

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that is kind of a revenge check type mon though, it does deny scale shot...

rancid kestrel Oct 7, 2025, 4:20 PM

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It's definitely, like, silly. And if SD Chomp doesn't show, it kinda doesn't do much (IG it can help tank HoOh?) but like. In my head the primary answer to Chomp was to outspeed w/ Scarf Palkia and OHKO it. But ye Scale Shot does nullify that. Haban? But they could be Haban.

cerulean aspen Oct 7, 2025, 4:23 PM

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I believe Scale Shot goes throug hHaban

rancid kestrel Oct 7, 2025, 4:24 PM

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Might be worth testing. Does make things harder for sure, if true. But also Scale Shot without Loaded Dice (if they're Haban) is much riskier, for sure.

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You also have a Tapu Lele, that might be an angle - stuffs Scale Shot, 252/252+ can tank every +2 EQ (at 100%... if it's not adamant...) - I'm sure there's an angle somewhere to figure out.

cerulean aspen Oct 7, 2025, 4:27 PM

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I do believe I have to bring either a physdef palk or arc-e here to check ho-oh, possibly both
terap is the offensive spectrier check, it can't disable both cm and starstorm
cir is kind of infinitely walled by pecharunt / ferrothorn (clear amulet sub leech seed is mega copium but can't break ferro)

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I'll think on this, ty

rancid kestrel Oct 7, 2025, 4:28 PM

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Good luck with prep and game, yeah!

cerulean aspen Oct 7, 2025, 4:34 PM

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rancid kestrel Sure, I can see a bulky Palkia making more sense than a Scarf Palkia here. Ye, ...

Audino doesn't learn Moonblast.

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This mon is sad as hell.

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on the other hand it gets Ice Beam

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okay never mind I found my spectrier answer

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(this was just a mock but this is crazy)

jade solar Oct 7, 2025, 5:10 PM

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(i also got flinched like 3 times bcuz of pagos dpulse)

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(otherwise just cosmic power arc-psy'd him)

kindred igloo Oct 7, 2025, 5:57 PM

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serp or weavile for gen 7

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draft

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i hve mmaw lando

spare relic Oct 7, 2025, 6:10 PM

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You have to show your pool to see what’s available

rancid kestrel Oct 7, 2025, 6:46 PM

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If the options are those two, I'd probably consider Serp, leaning all in the direction of physical attackers is not entirely great. I don't know that either are great for you in this context, you already have a "I need support to function properly as a beatstick" which like, Weavile and Serp kinda both are (Serp less so) where you already have MMaw.

spiral thunder Oct 7, 2025, 6:58 PM

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https://pokepast.es/50d5ada7174985f9

rancid kestrel Oct 7, 2025, 7:01 PM

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spiral thunder https://pokepast.es/50d5ada7174985f9

What are your opponent's tera captains?

spiral thunder Oct 7, 2025, 7:01 PM

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oh whoops

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mew kingambit altaria

rancid kestrel Oct 7, 2025, 7:25 PM

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spiral thunder https://pokepast.es/50d5ada7174985f9

Unfortunately, your opponent has a Dragapult. Backed up with UrsaBM, Shifu, and a buncha other usable mons, this will be uphill for you. I don't immediately see what your response to it is, since AFAICT it outspeeds everything you have barring Rachi which can't really hit it anyway, you aren't running Sucker on Samu, Wake is Booster SpA, and Espathra is Tera... water? Why is it Tera Water?
I can't say I understand a lot of the decision-making here. You have no physical defense into a Pult, a Shifu, and a Gambit, your Jirachi and Garchomp sets don't make a ton of sense to me, you have no removal (a drafting problem, tbf) and your hazards is on your set-up sweeper? Like, Espathra inherent problem aside (Espathra is not a good Pokemon) are you really going to run Substitute into Infiltrator Dragapult and potential Hyper Voice UrsaBM?
Why are your speed EVs set the way they are? Okay, you outspeed non-Scarf neutral Shifu with Chomp, but you lose to neutral Mew? Plus Speed Shifu? Even your Jirachi, what is it outspeeding? It has too many speed EVs to be outpacing Adamant Scarf Shifu, but not enough for Jolly Scarf Shifu? Meanwhile, Samu is 252+, but you can save four EVs if the goal is to outpace 252 Shifu? I guess I'm just confused as to the nature of these EVs.

spiral thunder Oct 7, 2025, 7:55 PM

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is maybe bellibolt good?

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or

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idk

rancid kestrel Oct 7, 2025, 8:09 PM

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In the end, you're going to be the best perspective - you should be running what you think is good and will win. I just am giving advice on what I think are potential weak points or oversights. If I were you, I would run calcs, figure out what you think is likely to come from your opponent and how you intend to respond to things (such as, for example, Dragapult switching in after you take a KO) and go from there. I don't see a lot of strong response to Dragapult in your paste, but if you think you're able to handle it reasonably well enough, then don't mind all that.

cerulean aspen Oct 8, 2025, 1:09 AM

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spiral thunder https://pokepast.es/50d5ada7174985f9

on top of what afairy said, unfortunately for you the opponent has a nd tera mew and nd tera kingambit (this means mew has roost / soft boiled and gambit has knock off)

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I also think espathra should 100% be tera fairy in this mu, stored power nukeds pecharunt anyways and u want the defensive typing + tera blast into shifu gambit pult

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I would probably go chople rattled dudunsparce here, switch in on uturn --> get speed boost, they go shifu, u revenge kill w/ boomburst, ep if they go pech / gambit.
idt coil glare is esp good here

spiral thunder Oct 8, 2025, 2:28 AM

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are there any mons that i shouild look to trade for?

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 2:33 AM

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Impossible to say without more context, such as free agent rules, what is available on the board, point values or stuff - it doesn’t matter for this match much anyway since standard FA stuff doesn’t kick in until after the match they happen before. But, like, your team isn’t terrible or even bad, it’s just not built necessarily with modern sv draft meta knowledge at the forefront.

cerulean aspen Oct 8, 2025, 3:35 AM

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spiral thunder https://pokepast.es/50d5ada7174985f9

in addition, hsamu is naive (which drops a def stat, idr which) should be jolly

lofty wigeon Oct 8, 2025, 3:37 AM

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ChjLiOS58ungLmQyNNVppEkoC6aMJ_0tykSRZ1hpuq8/edit?usp=drivesdk

About to start a dynasty draft.
Basically i will be able to keep three pokemon to bring into the next season when we start drafting again.

It is Natdex custom rules that are in the docs.

Haven't gotten my pick yet but it's a 12 man draft and i'm at least in the first 7 picks of the draft

Google Docs

Pokemon Combine Circuit (PCC)

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I am pick 7

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 3:47 AM

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Overpays: palafin, gouging fire, spectrier (arguably), chi-yu, landorus, sneasler, torn-t, baxc, celesteela, melmetal, walking wake
Underpays: dragapult, Chien-pao, iv, alakazam-mega, deo-s, mawile-mega, lando-t

Imo at least. A lot of the overpays are bad without Tera or are just placed too high naturally, and a lot of the underpays are just strong mons that either should’ve been banned or should be a point or three higher than they got placed, imo

lofty wigeon Oct 8, 2025, 3:50 AM

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rancid kestrel Overpays: palafin, gouging fire, spectrier (arguably), chi-yu, landorus, sneasle...

Mega Mawile was awesome last draft i used it (gen 7) Pao i don't think will drop but it has a complex SD ban on it so it might

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Zarude is tera legal

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 3:54 AM

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Possible to get that on a r2 or r3, I dunno if I’d go for it r1 in a world where stuff like Mega Alakazam or Chien-Pao are in play, yknow? Like the power level is That High. I missed the Pao complex, but it’s probably still better than NP-less Spectrier I’d think? But yeah fair, I think you’re luckily at 7 suggestions of potential underpays, so like, in theory, even if every single player plays “af optimally” which like, they won’t, you should still have a good r1 pick. And like, that’s not even talking about just fairly priced mons like Garchomp, Shifu, or Mega Medicham/Lopunny, yknow?

lofty wigeon Oct 8, 2025, 3:55 AM

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Also i read the rules again they just said it's banned but it's not actually in the docs

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i won't say anything until it's my pick and ask for clarification

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 3:56 AM

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Man maybe I cut off my overpays one point too high, so many of these 16s are like, not it, even for 120pt…. Like, MAero? Clef? MChomp? I dunno about those prices.

lofty wigeon Oct 8, 2025, 3:57 AM

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also shed tail is legal

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I mentioned it a couple days ago but they didn't change it

kindred igloo Oct 8, 2025, 8:48 AM

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rancid kestrel If the options are those two, I'd probably consider Serp, leaning all in the dir...

the issue is i need speed control. i have 0 speed control

kindred igloo Oct 8, 2025, 8:48 AM

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spare relic You have to show your pool to see what’s available

https://spo.ink/usum_iii_draft_pools_1_16

Google Docs

USUM III - Draft Pools Doc (Pools #1-#16)

kindred igloo Oct 8, 2025, 10:46 AM

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3rd

lofty wigeon Oct 8, 2025, 12:14 PM

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kindred igloo the issue is i need speed control. i have 0 speed control

Serp gets Glare

kindred igloo Oct 8, 2025, 12:17 PM

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lofty wigeon Serp gets Glare

uhh

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yes

lofty wigeon Oct 8, 2025, 12:17 PM

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Ohhh you're still drafting

kindred igloo Oct 8, 2025, 12:17 PM

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ye

kindred igloo Oct 8, 2025, 1:23 PM

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@rancid kestrel

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@spare relic

vague trout Oct 8, 2025, 1:52 PM

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in the draft league im competing in, they dont use tera points. Instead you have 1 pokemon in the 1000$ and below you can choose to tera for one type. Is there anything yall find interesting or good?

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NmcdcQTbWk3Gdl9_elhjdxJJzzWscXauHDQYYR63KzE/edit

Google Docs

PDL Kaderbau Vorlage Season VI

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ah, and you have one additional pick for 500$ and lower

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plus you cant stab tera

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i was thinking tera normal heracross + guts + facade

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or tera ghost porygon z + adaptability

kindred igloo Oct 8, 2025, 3:42 PM

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i ended up going serperior

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what do i prioritize here

misty plumeBOT Oct 8, 2025, 3:43 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

lofty wigeon Oct 8, 2025, 4:06 PM

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rancid kestrel Possible to get that on a r2 or r3, I dunno if I’d go for it r1 in a world where...

Val got taken so i just took dragu

ember knot Oct 8, 2025, 4:37 PM

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kindred igloo what do i prioritize here

Lati volcanion

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Then amuk

kindred igloo Oct 8, 2025, 4:38 PM

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ember knot Lati volcanion

amuk seems more likely to be taken

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than canion surely?

ember knot Oct 8, 2025, 4:39 PM

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kindred igloo amuk seems more likely to be taken

Idk either or

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Depends what ppl need

kindred igloo Oct 8, 2025, 4:41 PM

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ember knot Depends what ppl need

https://spo.ink/usum_iii_draft_pools_1_16

Google Docs

USUM III - Draft Pools Doc (Pools #1-#16)

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3rd pool

cerulean aspen Oct 8, 2025, 9:06 PM

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@sleek bronze what is the draft board?

sleek bronze Oct 8, 2025, 9:17 PM

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cerulean aspen <@701854630837092403> what is the draft board?

ill send it to u once we get further in

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we did a slow draft for some reason so were only on the second round

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 9:27 PM

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Hey. Sorry, didn't have internet up until now.

@kindred igloo - I would look into getting a Pokemon around Base 100, as well as usable hazards - exclusively LandoT rocks (MMaw is not setting) is alarmingly not sufficient in NatDex. I would also not want to be stuck with 110-91 as my speed structure, especially since both seem like likely scarfers on your structure. Having a lot of space missing in that speed tier means that a lot of 'mons are going to be able to give up a lot of speed EVs - get something usable obviously, Miltank isn't exactly going to be a super worrying threat in builder. But like, those are the two big things I see are missing personally. I'm not super thrilled that your solo Dragon resist is MMaw, either, but that's not exactly the end of the world. Ghost is slightly shaky too, but AMuk is a better ghost resist than MMaw is a Dragon immunity.

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 9:39 PM

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vague trout https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NmcdcQTbWk3Gdl9_elhjdxJJzzWscXauHDQYYR63...

At a quick glance at 1000 and 750, some 'mons I'd personally consider giving Tera access on my team:

Cloyster, Armarogue, Gallade, Gyarados, Polteageist, Blaziken, Yanmega - all of these are examples of 'mons that use the Tera they can to change their typing and tank a hit unexpectedly, boosting up their stats or setting up a sub or whatever. High risk, high reward 'mons who rely on getting a prediction right and having counters already chipped to pull off a major sweep. There are some others like these - Galarian Moltres/Articuno, Hariyama, but those are some of the notable ones that stuck out to me.
Ogerpon is Ogerpon. Bonkers, Game Freak made a 'mon that leans into the generational gimmick and like, at least for this gen, it works. It's a bit predictable, though the item guessing game is something, but there's something to be said about CB Tera Grass Adamant Ivy Cudgel - even resists struggle to tank hits.
Hisuian Typhlosion, Cetitan, Crawdaunt, Lokix, Flygon, Haxorus, Porygon-Z, Regidrago, Noivern, Regieleki, Maushold, Jolteon, Barreskewda - all of these are examples of 'mons who use Tera to boost their damage, turning some 2HKOs into OHKOs or 3s into 2s. Whether they're coverage options, such as Regieleki or Jolteon, a second STAB option such as Barreskewda, Noivern, or Regidrago, or "i'm going to hit you even harder with my STAB" options like Maushold, Lokix, and Cetitan, these 'mons use Tera to boost their damage and make them hard to tank.
Revavroom, Garganacl, Orthworm, Wo-Chien, Cresselia, Talonflame - these are 'mons who will mostly be using Tera defensively, to shore up weaknesses, improve their typing so they can act as the defensive powerhouses they need to be on a team. These all have major flaws in a draft environment, mostly due to their typing being seen coming and being prepared for, so Tera allows them to change out of that limitation and provide defensive backbone without a major limiting flaw inherent to their typing.

vague trout Oct 8, 2025, 9:41 PM

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rancid kestrel At a quick glance at 1000 and 750, some 'mons I'd personally consider giving Ter...

interesting pokemon, but the issue is that the teras are known so i cant use them suprisingly and stab teras are banned as i said

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 9:44 PM

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Teras are known as in, tera preview, or as in, you declare one Tera pre-tour and that's what you're stuck with

vague trout Oct 8, 2025, 9:45 PM

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rancid kestrel Teras are known as in, tera preview, or as in, you declare one Tera pre-tour and...

you declare on tera pre tour

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and there are bunch of banned teras aswell

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that arent even game breaking

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 9:49 PM

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Mons that are worse because no stab tera: Hyphlosion, Cetitan, Crawdaunt, Lokix, PorygonZ, Maushold - not unusable, but I dunno that I'd be considering them much given the additional context.
Defensive mons that are worse because their typing can't change: Revavroom, Garganacl - they're like, fine, but they really appreciate being able to adjust as needed in the context of what they're expecting to come up against. They can run useful neutral types (assuming they arent banned...) like, idk, Flying or Fairy respectively, but they more than most prefer the flexibility. Like, Cresselia's always running Electric (this is an oversimplification) - it doesn't mind the limitation quite as much.

It sounds to me somewhat that Tera might not be a majorly impactful mechanic in your league given how many limitations are added. This, generally IMO, leans towards offensive teras being better - such as the coverage damage boost options, or the "will i wont i" stat boosters - for example, would really suck to click Volt Switch on the Gyarados already behind a substitute on the risk it hits Tera Ground that turn and clicks DD, because now you have a +1 +1 Gyara behind a sub and they still have their Rotom-Wash in. But then if they click HPump and you don't Tera, uninvested RWash doesn't even break sub, yknow? And then the damage boosters, like, sure Noivern can't Tera Dragon, but what it wants to do is Tera Normal Boomburst, or Jolteon Tera Ice Tera Blast to provide incredible coverage alongside its Electric stab.

vague trout Oct 8, 2025, 9:53 PM

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rancid kestrel Mons that are worse because no stab tera: Hyphlosion, Cetitan, Crawdaunt, Lokix,...

yeah thats why i was thinking bout tera normal facade guts heracross+

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or run porygon ghost scarf and hit most foes

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but heracross is mad expensive and i can get ursaring for 500$

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but the gyrados tera and noivern tera seem really interesting i will keep that in mind

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 9:55 PM

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I am not a huge Ursaring fan personally, but I do think that again Tera is not likely to be a huge presence in your league, so like, not a huge deal to put it on a 'mon that likely won't ever come. Can't it not Tera Normal though? I dunno that Tera Ghost Ursa is as motivating as it is on P-Z to me.

vague trout Oct 8, 2025, 9:57 PM

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rancid kestrel I am not a huge Ursaring fan personally, but I do think that again Tera is not l...

i meant like ursa without tera does the same thing heracross does without the tera, he has the facade stab and guts and same attack stat i think

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ofc heracross provides other stuff aswell but in the tera context

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but as you said tera does very limited work

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i think in my last pdl draft i just ran palafin pelliper archaludon vileplume like every game and never used my tera mon

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 10:02 PM

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I guess the comparison there in my head is "you gain 5 base attack in exchange for never being able to move first and mostly worse defenses" - I dunno. I'm just not convinced Ursaring is a super reasonable pick in SV Draft even in these contexts.

vague trout Oct 8, 2025, 10:03 PM

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i completly agree

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but unlike smogon where ursa and heca are similar cost

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heca cost double what ursa costs

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 10:04 PM

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That's fair re: costs. Like we talked last time, your league's cost certainly is unique and an angle that I'm not super knowledgeable on. I just think that on a team of 12, I'm not sure Ursaring's ever really bringable.

vague trout Oct 8, 2025, 10:04 PM

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yeah maybe some trick room shenanigans but thats it mostly

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but like we said before the tier list is weird and the most efficant way is to get some 4-5 expensive mons that are useful and some 500 250 mons that fill out whats missing but dont play much of a role

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and that drafting an balanced team is not really doable bcs of the huge pricing gaps

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 10:08 PM

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I don't think there's a wrong pick here, to be clear - maybe something like Espathra, which is notably bad even as a Tera Captain when opponents can see it coming, or mons like Donphan, Blissey, Galarian Weezing, or Klefki which actually don't care about their types (1, 2) or enjoy the type they do have (3, 4) - the best answer, usually, is going to be what you enjoy and find motivating to use.

vague trout Oct 8, 2025, 10:08 PM

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that makes sense

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since tera is not that much of a deal here

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unlike in smogon

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in that case i will just wait what 2000 mon i will get and adapt my tera on him

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 10:12 PM

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I think that makes some sense. Good to explore the options on the field, but always better to see how your draft turns out before locking something into your mind.

vague trout Oct 8, 2025, 10:13 PM

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rancid kestrel I think that makes some sense. Good to explore the options on the field, but alw...

yeah, and i wanted to make sure im not missing out on anything so thats why i asked

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but if there isnt something gamebreaking like pult costing as much as cyclicar and meow costing less

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i will just adapt to the situatiuon

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thanks again for the input

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 10:15 PM

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Nothing immediately sticks out to me, no - if I had to pick what I thought were the standout best options, I'd probably pick Cress, Barre, Noivern, Regieleki, and Ogerpon.

vague trout Oct 8, 2025, 10:16 PM

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rancid kestrel Nothing immediately sticks out to me, no - if I had to pick what I thought were ...

barreskewda?

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 10:19 PM

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Might just be a personal thing, but having something blisteringly fast with good coverage (Water, Fighting Tera) can make it quite usable, though y'all do have your rain setters priced maybe a bit too high for it to really shine.

vague trout Oct 8, 2025, 10:23 PM

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rancid kestrel Might just be a personal thing, but having something blisteringly fast with good...

definetly, thanks for the help again have a nice evening

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 10:23 PM

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You as well!

lofty wigeon Oct 8, 2025, 10:55 PM

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ChjLiOS58ungLmQyNNVppEkoC6aMJ_0tykSRZ1hpuq8/edit?usp=drivesdk

Looking at Tera Keldeo and Torn T for my next picks

Google Docs

Pokemon Combine Circuit (PCC)

rancid kestrel Oct 8, 2025, 11:44 PM

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Is that Tera [Keldeo and Torn T] or [Tera Keldeo] and Torn T @lofty wigeon

lofty wigeon Oct 9, 2025, 12:39 AM

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rancid kestrel Is that Tera [Keldeo and Torn T] or [Tera Keldeo] and Torn T <@65602633907319603...

Tera Keldeo or normal Torn T

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Single Strike Urishifu seems okay as well

rancid kestrel Oct 9, 2025, 12:43 AM

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I like Tera Keldeo a lot, Shifu's definitely a good 'mon, though I'm not the biggest fan of TornT if it doesn't have Tera. If I'm in your shoes I probably go with Keldeo, though it doesn't bring a whole buncha drafting checkmarks beyond its Speed tier.

lofty wigeon Oct 9, 2025, 12:45 AM

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Shifu is nice if it comes around again

silver nacelle Oct 9, 2025, 3:02 AM

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(Gen 6) ditto x stall this week, thoughts? :) (i'm left)

misty plumeBOT Oct 9, 2025, 3:02 AM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rancid kestrel Oct 9, 2025, 3:28 AM

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silver nacelle (Gen 6) ditto x stall this week, thoughts? :) (i'm left)

In the end, your opponent can only bring six Pokemon. They can't have all of Alo TFlame Clef Regi Ditto MSab and still have space for stuff like Flygon, Virizion, or Melo. You have a lot of Knock Off, a lot of Taunt, a lot of Roar - plenty disruption that not a ton on your opponent's team is going to appreciate. Sure, they have MGuard and a Regen mon and Magic Bounce and stuff, but you're going to be able to see this stuff coming and be able to properly plan counteracts.
This team doesn't have a ton of hazard response beyond MSab. Sure, Flygon gets Defog, but that's not good removal. Sure, Clefable and Regi get SR, but that's turns wasted. I also don't see a TSpikes absorber on their team, so if you can get Mummy onto the MSab, you can in theory get up TSpikes and make their life much harder?
Their speed's not great. A lot of their fast 'mons are hard to bring multiple of, it's really just likely to be Talonflame and maybe one of Viriz/Flygon. If I had to guess, Viriz looks better into your team than Flygon does. You can save a lot of EVs on stuff like Heatran or Gligar by nature of not needing to worry about outspeeding, say, Clef or Alo.
I'm not going to try to do an in-depth prediction on what they'll bring or what you'll bring. I will say that 252 Whimsicott is doing minimum 64 to Sableye with Moonblast, and it can carry wallbreaking tools to be a pest. I'd build around it and Cofagrigus, personally. Pack a hard hitter like Keldeo or Haxorus, probably Keldeo, then fill out from there? I don't see a good Ground resist fitting into their structure, so MMane might be able to Volt Switch and be a pest, keep them constantly having to switch is beneficial to you?
Like, surely MSab, Alo, and Clef come. Then what, Talonflame, Registeel, plus 1? Ditto? Probopass? Viriz? Something like, that, probably. Whimsicott with Moonblast Taunt Giga Drain +1 probably goes pretty hard here, I'd think.

silver nacelle Oct 9, 2025, 3:31 AM

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oh you know i loaded up that tspike coffin instantly

kindred igloo Oct 9, 2025, 3:22 PM

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rancid kestrel Hey. Sorry, didn't have internet up until now. <@733925804874137671> - I would...

hi! i'm playing nat dex, and i can get a rocker with my leftover 4 points. this is what i considered, i'd be down to swap jolteon/machamp, i only took it for the speed

rancid kestrel Oct 9, 2025, 3:25 PM

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Do you have a sheet link, @kindred igloo - that'll help me evaluate things better. No sense in tossing a 130 if it doesn't get you enough points in return to justify doing so, yknow?

kindred igloo Oct 9, 2025, 3:25 PM

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rancid kestrel Do you have a sheet link, <@733925804874137671> - that'll help me evaluate thing...

yes

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https://spo.ink/usum_iii_draft_pools_1_16

Google Docs

USUM III - Draft Pools Doc (Pools #1-#16)

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group 3

rancid kestrel Oct 9, 2025, 3:27 PM

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kindred igloo hi! i'm playing nat dex, and i can get a rocker with my leftover 4 points. this ...

Why do you have Latias and Machamp penned in, out of curiosity? I want to understand your aim trying to get them here before I look into anything.

kindred igloo Oct 9, 2025, 3:28 PM

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rancid kestrel Why do you have Latias and Machamp penned in, out of curiosity? I want to unders...

latias is a cool speed tier, a dragon type as well as a cool ground resist. it also gets a plethora of moves. machamp was just filler, ill probably get like the rapid spinner fighter

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hitmon

rancid kestrel Oct 9, 2025, 3:29 PM

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Well sure, but you have LandoT and a 113 already, no?

kindred igloo Oct 9, 2025, 3:29 PM

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rancid kestrel Well sure, but you have LandoT and a 113 already, no?

i do, yes

rancid kestrel Oct 9, 2025, 3:32 PM

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I guess I'm just not super sure what it adds to your lineup other than the Dragon typing. If you want to keep it, that's fine, but it does mean that whatever you get for setting hazards and/or Base 100 is going to be just not as good, yknow. If this is SM, I'm not sure 130 is super important of a speed tier to hit - if you want Lati, I'd drop both Jolteon and Machamp, leaving you with 9 points. I don't know why you're motivated by Hitmontop, your problem is setting hazards not removing them. Lemme take a look at the lineup and see if anything sticks out for either Base 100 or setting that are worth considering.

kindred igloo Oct 9, 2025, 3:34 PM

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rancid kestrel I guess I'm just not super sure what it adds to your lineup other than the Drago...

oh sure, that'd be great

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i like mons with variety of moves in draft

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like tias

rancid kestrel Oct 9, 2025, 3:42 PM

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Base 100s area:
Entei 6pt, Flygon 4pt, Staraptor 5pt, Frogadier 1pt

Hazards: Forry 3pt, Crustle 3pt, Accelgor 4pt, Smeargle 2pt, Omastar 3pt

These are not Good Pokemon, to be clear. These are budget picks that you're going to struggle to make use of, that may only come to a handful of games a tour if any. But they do, somewhat, provide some flexibility in the speed department or in the hazards department, for the price tags you're looking at keeping Lati and not Jolt/Machamp.

kindred igloo Oct 9, 2025, 6:01 PM

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rancid kestrel Base 100s area: Entei 6pt, Flygon 4pt, Staraptor 5pt, Frogadier 1pt Hazards: F...

forretress sounds extremely cool tbh

rancid kestrel Oct 9, 2025, 6:03 PM

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It's not a bad Pokemon, it's just pretty linear and hard to make good use out of because it's very easy to see coming and take advantage of. But what it can do is provide an ability to set hazards if you don't have to worry about them getting removed down the line.

kindred igloo Oct 9, 2025, 6:05 PM

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indeed

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spikes are crucial

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can spin asw

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food for thought i suppose

kindred igloo Oct 9, 2025, 6:06 PM

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rancid kestrel It's not a bad Pokemon, it's just pretty linear and hard to make good use out of...

would entei + forretress work instead of jolteon machamp

rancid kestrel Oct 9, 2025, 6:11 PM

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If I were in your shoes, I'd prefer Entei + Forry over Jolt + Machamp, but both will work in the sense that they have their own limitations and bad matchups that you'll have to work around, while also providing their own attributes and additions that you will appreciate having.

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What you go with will be a determination for yourself and what you value, but I personally think the additional hazard setting from Forry and the speed tier from Entei will be of more value than what Jolteon and Machamp provide.

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 12:11 AM

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ChjLiOS58ungLmQyNNVppEkoC6aMJ_0tykSRZ1hpuq8/edit?usp=drivesdk

I have 5 points left for 3 mons now not sure what to do now, a spinner would be nice

Google Docs

Pokemon Combine Circuit (PCC)

misty plumeBOT Oct 10, 2025, 12:11 AM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rancid kestrel Oct 10, 2025, 12:25 AM

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Uh... Rapid Spin...Eldegoss? Komala? Tatsugiri? Limits you to 1pters. Though it's not like I'm seeing a ton more value in these 2pters. Smeargle? Murkrow or Fletchinder if you're okay with Defog? Vaguely worried about your lack of Ghost resist but it's not like a 2pter changes much.

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 12:41 AM

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rancid kestrel Uh... Rapid Spin...Eldegoss? Komala? Tatsugiri? Limits you to 1pters. Though it'...

Zap i think is gonna be my primary Remover, then lando could run it if he really needs to but eh

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Misdreavus as a second tera cpt doesn't seem awful

rancid kestrel Oct 10, 2025, 12:43 AM

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I think Missy makes your Ghost issues worse even just on a visual "oh man no resists and 3 weaks" level

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 12:45 AM

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I can also trade one of my picks for budget pts from another player

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it looks like 3 pts has been the standard price

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That opens me up to getting tera ambipom

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or tera tinkaton

formal haven Oct 10, 2025, 12:47 AM

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So here is a hot take. You could consider not getting extra removal, sure Zapdos is okayish removal, but you can also just accept that your draft wants to win by turn 25 and go all in on that. You have a very strong HO Core at the moment with the best suicide lead in the game and a lot of abusers. I would be more than happy to run 6 out of these 7 every week

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 12:49 AM

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formal haven So here is a hot take. You could consider not getting extra removal, sure Zapdos...

yeah in my head it's just always d speed screens into set up threat right ?

formal haven Oct 10, 2025, 12:50 AM

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I think Tera Tink is not the correct play for your draft, you have a better steel/fairy and a far better tera captian in Keldeo. (Bulky CM tera keldeo just wins games) however if selling a pick(which means less mons) can get you 3 points, I would.

formal haven Oct 10, 2025, 12:50 AM

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lofty wigeon yeah in my head it's just always d speed screens into set up threat right ?

Yeah or rocks and a spike, plus you get taunt and psychoboost can dent opposing leads

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 12:52 AM

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If i can get 3 points ill get Tera Pom for the ghost immune and tera dark for the spectair player

formal haven Oct 10, 2025, 12:54 AM

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if I read this correctly if oyu sell a pick you can get 3 points and then you have 2 picks left for 8 points right?

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 12:59 AM

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formal haven if I read this correctly if oyu sell a pick you can get 3 points and then you ha...

we have eleven picks but a min of 10 mins

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mons

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to compensate for selling picks

formal haven Oct 10, 2025, 1:00 AM

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So you always have to draft 10 mons even if you "sell" a pick?

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 1:00 AM

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yes

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and the person who bought it must use all their pics

formal haven Oct 10, 2025, 1:01 AM

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So can you sell your 11th pick for 3 points? Or are you tied to 5 points for 3 picks cause you are at 7 mons atm?

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 1:02 AM

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formal haven So can you sell your 11th pick for 3 points? Or are you tied to 5 points for 3 p...

5 points has to make 4 picks

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if i sell 8 points for 3 picks

formal haven Oct 10, 2025, 1:03 AM

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Then I'd advice you to sell, for 6 points grab Alolan-Persian(if you run into a strong ghost) and pick 2 shitty 1 pointers

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 1:04 AM

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what's the benefit over ambipom for persian ?

formal haven Oct 10, 2025, 1:04 AM

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I think there is no benefit to picking ambipom over Persian

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Persian doesn;t need tera to help your team, Ambipom does, which means no tera on Keldeo

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 1:06 AM

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formal haven Persian doesn;t need tera to help your team, Ambipom does, which means no tera o...

i get 3 tera cpts and have the tera budget to get ambipom

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so either of them can be terad

formal haven Oct 10, 2025, 1:07 AM

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The thing is, I feel like you are almost never bringing Ambipom without the intent to tera it. Which weakens your keldeo

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Whereas Persian you intend to bring as a dark-type that can take physical hits as well, so you want it there without the need to tera

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(and even then, tera allows for nasty plot sets which can have a good suprise factor)

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Personally I like Persian a lot more here because of oppertunity costs

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 2:02 AM

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formal haven Personally I like Persian a lot more here because of oppertunity costs

that makes sense i just wanted to know the rationale

kindred igloo Oct 10, 2025, 9:36 AM

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rancid kestrel If I were in your shoes, I'd prefer Entei + Forry over Jolt + Machamp, but both ...

👍

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 1:25 PM

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Here's what the spread is looking like

misty plumeBOT Oct 10, 2025, 1:25 PM

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New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

lofty wigeon Oct 10, 2025, 1:25 PM

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#Draft