Draft

[lofty sparrow]

https://pokepast.es/ee5c79fb0b400ecd gen 9 tera preview, im on the right
evs are pretty unoptimized minus chomp who outspeeds jolly mimikyu and 4hkos fully physdef scream tail

im pretty scared of specs gren in particular

oh and mimikyu asw

[lofty sparrow]

https://pokepast.es/c2a4b91f81235177 updated-ish paste

after some tinkering around

glimmora mu still sucks ass tho

[lofty sparrow]

https://pokepast.es/65d1473d9342d69c ok final update we have this garbage conkeldurr to both cope with tspikes and check gren now

this is what i want rated i think

ghold outspeeds jolly ihands chomp now 3hkos max hp max spe scream tail and outspeeds mimikyu zapdos outspeeds mimikyu hatt gets 3hkod by scarf latias sball

can probably run air balloon on ghold to rly cteam glimmora

[olive halo]

Uh sorry it was Friday and I was out but wow there was a lot happening here

[olive halo]

What is Rocky helmet ghold for? And oh god you’re facing a tera latias

Um wow

You need to add psyshock to your hatterene

I know you’re worried about battle bond gren

But if latias gets 1 calm mind versus your team, it’s curtains

Latias will be tera steel this match-up, it will be leftovers and if your conkeldur dies you have no way to beat it

I don’t know how else you beat it but you need to bring kinggambit, nothing else on your team will come close to beating it

And if you think I’m exaggerating, I’m no I’m not ask literally any other draft player here and they all have nightmares about tera latias, that Pokemon is a demon and when paired with gren this match-up is just over

I do have good news! You have the best Pokemon at revenge killing battle bond gren and that’s scarf meow!

That way if you need to sac something to gren you can outspeed the +1 battle bond boost and kill it with flower trick

Honestly, you could run choice scarf with trick

And try to trick the scarf onto the lati to stop it from winning the game too

That is another great viable strategy that slight beats lati

God and scream tail is going to just wish everything back up you need kingambit for those Pokemon even if it means getting walled by hands, it’s just too valuable into those Pokemon

Your can never be too scared of tera lati

[lofty sparrow]

who should i drop it for?

[olive halo]

One of Zapdos/conk. conk I get leaving on the team because of glimmora defog, but /gen what is zapdos doing here

[lofty sparrow]

its mostly for mimikyu i think

[olive halo]

Can’t really 1v1 hands, loses to gren, loses to lati, can’t beat scream tail and can be encores into roost

Oh boy do I have a steel and dark type for you that will beat mimikyu

[lofty sparrow]

does it actually check

i'm afraid of drain punch in particular

or can we run chople for that

[olive halo]

It should check the sucker punch calc, assuming this is the sequence where you sac something to break the disguise and kingambit comes in at +1 fallen enemy. And yeah chople is 100% viable here and very good

[lofty sparrow]

its also nice for latias so

i guess

[olive halo]

Not only that but meow should be able to kill mimikyu at low health too since shadow sneak can’t ohko

[lofty sparrow]

also i made ghold air balloon to counter glimmora lead

[olive halo]

Better than Rocky helmet since this team is all special attackers at least

[lofty sparrow]

what coverage should i run on scarf meow or are the moves i have rn good already

[olive halo]

Moves are good as is just replace spikes with trick

er wait

Does play rough kill gren?

It should right?

[lofty sparrow]

252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 362-428 (127 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

ye

[olive halo]

Okay, then just don't miss because play rough is better in the mu than flower trick

[lofty sparrow]

i'll make gambit sd sucker kowtow ihead is that ok

[olive halo]

Yeah that's good

[lofty sparrow]

alright, thanks for the help

[olive halo]

Anytime ❤️ ❤️

[kindred igloo]

thinking big lapras

[rancid kestrel]

Yeah, makes sense to me.

[wicked pilot]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R6OtVOt1Tz95se7JLS-q0xsNpo3a8_mBIoUgfcXz71M/edit?gid=1026180985#gid=1026180985

ok I am very torn rn on what to do on this grace period

I am considering grabbing Firepon because I want additional breaking power

but that would mean 3 grasses

Thundurus on paper has more synergy with my core

but my 6 mon core is pretty good already

So would the additional fire power of Firepon out weigh Thundy-I?

[olive halo]

Nah I think you have plenty of fire power honestly

Tusk will be offensive, sini, hsam, thundy, and lax are all pretty offensive

Sky's not great

[wicked pilot]

just for the speed tier 💔

for Sky

[olive halo]

Idt I would have gone sky, it doesn't have great stats, but yeah it's elite speed tier is nice and leech seed is rare in this game

Honestly this is a very solid team

You just might struggle into a valiant maybe, but also every team struggles into valiant

[wicked pilot]

true Valiant has no switch ins

😔

[olive halo]

well fez and sky with a scarf can revenge so it's not the end of the world

[wicked pilot]

What do you think about Tera types for Sinis and Lax?

🤔

I have to choose 1 stab 2 others

Sinis I was thinking:
ghost/steel/undecided

Lax:
normal/fairy/undecided

[olive halo]

I'm real bad at this, sini should be ghost over grass but beyond that idk maybe water and yeah steel is good with heat proof

[wicked pilot]

🤔 makes sense water is always good

[olive halo]

And yeah I like normal fairy and maybe ground? Since it has thick fat and stab eq and also your other ground is tusk which is bad into like zap and other tera electric mons

tera flying* not electric

[wicked pilot]

🤔 thick fat helps with bolt-beam nonsense as well

ty

[lofty sparrow]

alright so this team is like rly fucking scary idk what to do

terrain ival sneasler tera polteageist

[solemn warren]

You're the critter with the Garchomp right

Uh
+2 Unburden Sneasler Acrobatics
GG shake my hand

I mean not really since Gholdego walls it

A Kingambit sweep will probably get stopped by the Indeedee

[lofty sparrow]

https://pokepast.es/0eb88fe2008cc8dd

idfk

[solemn warren]

There's also scarf Blastoise Water Spout in rain functioning as a mini Kyogre

[lofty sparrow]

sneasler probably gets walled by ghold but i also need it for valiant

dijsjskalalakjajananai

bro this shit is literally a 1000-0 mu what do i do 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[solemn warren]

Scarf Meowscarada can one tap Blastoise if my calcs are sharp

That Archaludon is probably running Sturdy so there's the possibility of a Draco being dropped

[lofty sparrow]

why would it be sturdy instead of stamina tho

[solemn warren]

Shenanigans

[lofty sparrow]

fair

i feel like av conk might check it for a while tho

the problem is this fuckass blastoise ival and polteageist i literally just straight up dont check them at all

[solemn warren]

Ogerpon is very likely to make an appearance because it can Terastallize, and it's faster than your entire team bar the scarf Meowscarada I think

[lofty sparrow]

i'd need to calc how much garchomp pjab does

[solemn warren]

If you try to check Polteageist with Kingambit and it Terastallizes dark... Good luck

[lofty sparrow]

unless if +2 cudgel just kills

[lofty sparrow]

im trying to check it with tera dark av hatt

into nuzzle

[solemn warren]

Keyword being trying

[lofty sparrow]

yeah...

[solemn warren]

I could build a team based off his and we could practice but school moment

Also Archaludon will just Electro Shot in Rain and OHKO uh
Everything barring Swampert and Garchomp as I think Meowscarada can't take the hit

[lofty sparrow]

+2 252 Atk Ogerpon Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 322-381 (90.1 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

ok so i need some invest

unfortunately poison jab does not kill

so im fucked there regardless

[solemn warren]

You should probably do some Electro Shot calcs too just in case

Are the weather rocks allowed

[lofty sparrow]

yeah i think

let me check the doc

[solemn warren]

You'll just be in rain the entire battle regardless

If you win this matchup it'll be like REALLY close

[lofty sparrow]

yes they are very allowed

[solemn warren]

Yeah you're ultra fucked then

You can try to hazard chip then with Swampert as their removal includes rapid spin Blastoise and it'd rather just Water Spout in rain

[lofty sparrow]

ok so if i make conk max speed it outspeeds no speed invested archaludon

by 1

unfortunately then i have no points for bulk

[solemn warren]

What's reassuring us that the Archaludon isn't speed invested

[lofty sparrow]

yeah also that

[solemn warren]

There's also the menagerie of sets that Iron Valiant could be

Calm mind, swords dance, mixed, all out attacker, utility

Indeedee Male has Psychic Surge + Expanding Force too I think

[solemn warren]

Ability: Psychic Surge  
Tera Type: Psychic  
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Expanding Force  
- Dazzling Gleam  
- Shadow Ball  
- Energy Ball

It does

[lofty sparrow]

https://pokepast.es/a5eca6d1e1427593 ok i definitely have to fix the evs soon but at least pert is better at checking archa than conk

can also make garchomp haban berry and the emergency ival check is hatt????

[solemn warren]

Also said Indeedee can Trick the scarf into your Swampert

[lofty sparrow]

or it can trick the scarf into my hatt

[solemn warren]

Make the ultra read

[jade solar]

this week with a different MU in a paldex league, week 2 now, 1-0 +1 now and have a bit of a tricky MU on my hands this time. A Terrain based team with lots of insane threats

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jade solar]

https://pokepast.es/8213cd95a177df24

what i prepped so far for this MU

[olive halo]

Tricky tricky tricky match-up give me a minute and I’ll have an idea maybe

[jade solar]

damn we so cooked

[olive halo]

Okay so good news

They have no fairy

[jade solar]

florges???

[olive halo]

Er clothes

Florges

But that’s not coming

It’s gonna be first 5 + gliscor

[jade solar]

tera fairy bolt

kek

[olive halo]

Yeah I agree that it will come

I think you should lead shifu and try to just chunk whatever comes in and if they lead bolt you go treads

Because treads should be able to eat a tera blast fairy and dragon move

Just give it like a lot of special bulk and try and break through that way

The other problem is that you don’t have a great way to revenge chi-yu

[jade solar]

yeah

it's either i rip or it rips me

[rancid kestrel]

Which Urshifu are you?

[jade solar]

single strike

[olive halo]

Single

Yeah no your treads is max defense rn swap that to spdef for bolt and make it lefties or rowap or something

[rancid kestrel]

• The thing about "gimmick teams" like weather, terrains, TR, etc, is that you can see 'em coming. Sure, this doesn't have to be a terrain team, Terap/Chi-Yu/Bolt can function outside of terrain, and Sneasler doesn't desperately need it to perform, but steep fall-off in 'mon quality after those three means that Rilla's for sure coming. And at that point, you're boosting up your Terap potentially to Shell range, Sneasler's able to proc Unburden, you've got one ground immunity anyway(!), so...
• Sneasler, Raging Bolt, and Chi-Yu add nothing utility-wise to a team. Sneasler can status, I guess, via Dire Claw, but these are 'mons who are designed to be supported and set up for. Half a team who need to be positioned for and doesn't contribute back to the team? That's a dangerous place to be in.
• Their speed tiers are not ideal. If they ever lose Unburden on Sneasler from a Red Card tech or something, then all of the sudden they can't outpace Pult. Ch-Yu can run Scarf, yes, but it coming in on Pult is telegraphing Scarf, and it either needs to click the Dark-type move and watch Shifu switch in and tank it, or click the Fire-type move on the predict and then lose itself to Dragapult - though this is vaguely also not beneficial to you, but the prediction contest can be lightened up by something like using Protect on Pult to force it to reveal what it's doing.
• But like, what else is running Scarf/acting as speed control on their team? 252+ Proto Bolt doesn't outspeed 252+ Pult, neither does Scarf. Rilla could run Scarf, but leaving so much damage at the door from Ada/Band/whatever is... wack to me. Terap and Gliscor desperately need their items, Froslass could come but then gets blanked by Treads/Shifu/Prim...

• It's gotta be Sneasler, who can be messed with by a Red Card or otherwise positioned around, potentially. A Static from Zapdos, a TWave from a Cloak Mesprit - legit, Sneasler even at +2 can't KO it with anything to fully invested Mesprit, highest damaging move is Shadow Claw and that only 2HKOs? Disappointing show for Sneasler. Even +2 Crit is still only an 81% roll in their favor on Shadow Claw.
• Froslass isn't coming, and even if it was, it still only ties with Moth, and I'm not convinced it's always wanting to run 252+/Scarf/both. The paradoxes can also jump it in speed, too, via Booster. Chi-Yu feels like the obligatory Scarfer, so if you wanna play with fire, pun unintended, you can tech Zapdos to outrun "just' 252+ Gliscor, and not bother with Chi-Yu. Dangerous, though, because Chi-Yu can hit like a truck.
• +1 Terap could outrun some things and is scary. But it kinda wants boosts before it can do meaningful damage, and Shifu kinda terrifies it. You're Single-Strike so you don't have to worry about the Shell interaction on multi-hit moves, but like, Terap's always scary? Scout the Dazzling Gleam and make sure it doesn't have the Tera Shell up. 248/0 Zapdos is a 2HKO from Tera Starstorm at +1, but are you really letting this thing get BOTH a Rapid Spin and a Calm Mind? I guess it doesn't need a Rapid Spin, but. It also wants both it (what else is doing removal on their team? Gliscor...?) and CM (otherwise it struggles to do damage), which means it gets 2 of Starstorm, DGleam, and EPower. 1+2, Treads sits on it. 1+3, Shifu can tank a Starstorm at full (if it isn't Modest) and revenge it. And 2+3 feels like leaving a lot of damage on the table.

• Okay I have spent too much time on speed tiers, it kinda wandered off into a threat assessment of their offensive mons. But like, if Terap is coming offensive, that's four mons all focused on themselves and requesting support without providing the team much in return. Gliscor and Rilla are good 'mons in Draft, yes, but they alone cannot carry four 'mons with main character syndrome.
• They have good hazards, but all of their setters are kinda a secondary setter, like I mentioned above - Terap and Sneasler are setting hazards? I don't think so, not if they want to be effective. Empoleon and Froslass can, but who's staying on the bench so they can show up? Kinda just leaves Gliscor to do all the hazards, which like, that's as close to a primary setter as they're going to get, but it does pigeonhole it a little bit.
• Removal is slightly alleviated - Empleon and Florges have the same problem that Empleon and Froslass had, but at least Terapagos can lead here with Rapid Spin here. It probably wants to if Gliscor is bringing more than one hazard. But is Gliscor really going to be removing its own hazards? Defog into SR/Spike seems like a lot of turns spent with Terrain running down or letting you get your threatening tools in. I can't imagine that is a good use of your opponent's turns.
• I won't comment too much on the paste here, since Happygate's done that great already, but I'd think about your lack of hazard setting. You really don't want the Terapagos to be able to run Lefties+Terrain and gain 12% without worrying about Rocks chip here. Can I suggest the anti-Sneasler Mesprit I talked about during the speed section, perhaps over Primarina? You can slap Rocks on it as well, if you wanna keep all of Treads' moves.

• I'd take a second look at Pult's Speed/Nature, it seems to me that I'd really quite to be able to outspeed Speed Boosted 252+ Bolt, which takes 212+. I dunno if you have the investment space for that, or if you had a different gameplan for Bolt, but that sticks out to me.

[jade solar]

will that actually come...

well i can't exactly drop mesprit for prima

prima is of a lot of value here

since i need it to switch into chi yu

[rancid kestrel]

So long as you feel comfortable with your responses to Sneasler and you feel confident it won't be 252+ Booster Speed Bolt, then as always my comments are just my own thoughts on the matchup and how I'd consider approaching it - I definitely think the best team you can bring is going to be the one you feel most comfortable with/did the best for you in mocks if you do 'em.

[jade solar]

well

the biggest problem is sneas

i have no answer once it gets goin

[cerulean aspen]

I mean it has to be stabs throat chop sd here right

if they're crazy they go fling big nugget

moth should be able to eat at least one hit from Sneas and nuke it with psychic

[marsh hatch]

Any assistance? Iron Moth is scary

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[olive halo]

Moth is scary? When you have a paladin? I’m pretty sure wimp mode palafin jet punch kills it

This team is very weak to palafin minus bolt

Run spdef clef to walk bolt and play around that. Arch is also cool here

[rancid kestrel]

• Your opponent's speed tiers are not great. Ditto, Grimmsnarl, Raging Bolt, and Iron Moth can all reasonably play outside of the standard speed tier meta, but generally speaking, you have a move-first advantage here.
• 130 to 110 is a worrying topline, though your 125 to 109 isn't strictly speaking much better. Where you shine, however, is your 125-109-100-100, compared to their 130-110-97. Additionally, Crobat as their 130 isn't terrific, sure it's fast and can be a pest, but it's not exactly the flashy killer that you maybe want at the top of the bracket.
• They fall quite quick, too, with double 75s and then down to 60. Their sixth fastest Pokemon is Base 60, again before you mess with Booster Energy or Scarves or whatever. Your sixth fastest is 85, and with the exception of Kilo maybe, all of your top end are pretty strong generally speaking.

• They have two hazards. Total. They have rocks on Swampert, and TSpikes on Iron Moth. They have reasonable removal in Defog on Scizor/Crobat, but it's still a team that is somewhat conceding the hazard gameplay to you - something that you'll probably be able to take advantage of.
• Your removal isn't great, admittedly. The only thing that can remove that comes regularly is Kartana, but Drifblim and Hitmontop aren't as meaningless as their Tropius. Your setting is pretty good, though. Webs on Vikavolt might be worth consideration, Webs can seriously impact a Paradox mon's ability to do things, and they have two. In fact, practically every 'mon that wants to win for them is grounded. The exception here is actually Ditto, kinda, since Imposter activates after Webs and the speed drop gets wiped. But even just being able to put up Rocks can make it difficult for them to safely navigate in Moth.
• They have pretty good type diversity and resistance spread, which in part is due to defensively solid 'mons like AMuk, MSciz, and Swampert. Some weaknesses I see that you might be able to take advantage of are Psychic on MGarde, since bringing all three of MSciz/AMuk/Grimm is difficult for them. The alternative here is Electric, from Kilo, since presuming that Bolt teras into something, say Fairy, they suddenly are limited to just Swampert as their immunity. They also have not a great spread against Archaludon's Dragon, with only MSciz and Grimmsnarl being able to answer it. The only thing that resists the combo of Water+Fighting on your opponent's team is Tropius, which is ineffectual as a bring and takes space, meaning Palafin can toss out damage often and happily as they struggle to work around it.

If I'm your opponent, MSciz, Shifu, and Raging Bolt are assurred brings. Shifu is probably the scarfer if they have one, I don't trust Paradoxes as my speed control personally. MSciz does really well answering in Kartana and Garde, which at first glance is the core of your roster. Raging Bolt strikes me as the default option for the "wincon" for your opponent, Moth is scary yes but Bolt can muscle through checks better than IMoth can and like Happygate said, Bolt doesn't suffer from debilitating fear of Palafin.

After that, I bring Swampert and Crobat, because leaving the hazard gameplay win at the opponent's door before even preview is unacceptable. You can maybe drop Crobat here for Sciz running Defog, but I'm not convinced Sciz has the space to - UTurn, Roost, Bullet Punch are all mandatory, and you probably want something like Knock or or SD or CC or something, and Crobat means your fastest 'mon isn't likely to be Shifu (if Moth doesn't come).

One more slot for your opponent, and it isn't easy. It could be Moth, sure, but it could also be Grimmsnarl, AMuk, or Ditto. I suspect Ditto is much less likely, Kartana doesn't seem like the likely sweeper here, and your other big threats aren't really natural boosters. Grimmsnarl could do stuff like setup screens, sure, but what's taking advantage of that? Bolt? I guess. I can see Grimmsnarl screensless coming, shit like Trick, Parting Shot, TWave... Could also be AMuk, since Swampert isn't a particularly sturdy Palafin answer otherwise, and you likely have a Kartana running around that Crobat's not going to be thrilled to have to deal on top of being speed control and Defog.

This isn't to say that Moth isn't coming, or that you shouldn't worry about stuff like Tropius (maybe this is to say that you shouldn't worry about Tropius.) but I think that if I was your opponent, this would probably be something akin to my approach.

You, on the other hand, are in a much more interesting state - I could legitimately see reasons to bench either Kartana or MGarde, but I think that they do bring enough value to the field to keep them as assumed brings for now. Palafin obviously comes, as does Archaludon - these are the two mons that seem most likely to be the one on the field at the end of the game. This leaves two slots - Clefable is a good shout, specially defensive can blank Bolt that isn't teched for it, while also helping with Moth as an emergency. I could see Vikavolt for Webs, Politoed for rain (be careful how you handle Scizor if so!), Kilo as electric-spam with Tera techs for either Bolt/Pert, uh... your other mons exist too, sorta. Overqwil looks cool, I guess, but I'm not convinced Intimidate here goes off the way it needs to (Shifu and Sciz both will bring pivoting), and I don't see what it does otherwise.

[olive halo]

I'm realizing now that you beating mega sciz is going to be a problem

You just have to wisp it with gard or beat it with a powerful special attacker

Because it will wall your kart and overqwil

[mystic sundial]

Thoughts on the final team? https://pokepast.es/1d325b04ca492ac1

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rancid kestrel]

No removal is worrying. though I'm not sure where you could've fit it in. Ditto with MLop, the matchup for it doesn't look so bad against it that you couldn't get it in somewhere, though Hyph/M-Amph are legitimate alternative avenues.

[mystic sundial]

I figured since their only removal is defog I’d be fine

Lando can stop chomp spike stacking

[rancid kestrel]

It's definitely possible to go without removal, it's just a risk. Generally speaking I dont see anything alarming about your paste - things I wouldn't do (no removal, no MLop) sure, but nothing that I'd strongly discourage against - say, like, bringing Specs instead of Scarf on Hyph.

[marsh hatch]

I think Vikavolt can handle that or Drifblim
Gardevior just loses to scizor

[marsh hatch]

Might run Palafin, Vikavolt, Kartana,Archaludon,Clefable

[marsh hatch]

Any thoughts for the 6th team slot
Water absorb Politoed
Aftermath Drifblim
And Killowattrel
These are good options

[rancid kestrel]

I don't see the value of WA Politoed. Surely you'd be using Drizzle to help out Archaludon? I'd think Kilo would be yoru best bet here of your suggested options. Though I'd not totally discount MGarde, even against a MSciz it can be useful.

[cerulean aspen]

sub mystical fire can beat msciz but it's very risky
sub also lets you maybe check tclap bolt
psyshock / mfire / hyper voice / sub could perhaps work?

[marsh hatch]

Oh that's really smart

[mystic sundial]

Ok ngl, kinda worried about this mu. This guy is really good and he makes crazy builds with his mons. Any advice?

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean aspen]

their fairy is... doesn't exist.
their dark resists are... sneasler and weavile.
their fighting resist is sneasler and zard y
I think you just click buttons and go alo on whatever you can't handle

[mystic sundial]

Phys or Spdef alo?

[cerulean aspen]

uuh
physdef here
spdef find a way to deal with yard (mega amphy spdef is a good shout resists both stabs)

[mystic sundial]

I feel like mega lop would be really good here

[jade solar]

silvally fairy

🗿

[cerulean aspen]

that's fake

[mystic sundial]

Oh yeah

[cerulean aspen]

sub darkrai with glasses or sumn just clicks dark pulse sludge and murders everything

[mystic sundial]

Sneasler and scizor

[jade solar]

sciz is fine

u can deal with it

sneas hmmm.

[rancid kestrel]

I apologize for a more brief/concise/unhelpful message, I'm in a lot of pain today and am exhausted and still have things to do later.

• They have this strange half-commitment to a sun version, btwn CharY, Scov, and maybe a few others. You could also argue that like, Lurantis, Coalossal, Serp, and Salazzle fit into it as well, but again it's this strange half-commitment, because their one sun setter loses half its health on switch in and can only set for 4 turns maximum for its teammates. Mind you, CharY can be its own sun abuser, but generally speaking sun is not going to be up for as long as your opponent wants if they try for a sun version. And all on top of this, they dump a ton of points into MSciz, which totally gets locked out in the sun version.
• I'm not seeing a super easy way to proc Unurden for Sneasler, White Herb CC maybe? But like, you're mostly going to be outspeeding things here with MLop. I could see Serp being scarf, but otherwise they have this strange drop from Serp 113 to CharY 100. Weavile and Sneasler at 125 120 are fine, but generally are a bit one-note. Scovillain as speed control necessitates Sun, which is in limited supply for your opponent.
• Your opponent has terrible setting. It's just Coalossal, and then TSpikes on Salazzle/Sneasler. Like, what? You even have a super flexible grounded Poison in Fezandipiti and a strong spinner in Treads. Are they really going to bring Coalossal, which matches terrible into so many things on your team, just to set up Rocks and get it spun away? Are they gonna force Sneasler/Salazzle to run TSpikes to watch it go away via a UTurn pivot from LandoT to Fezan?
• That said, their removal is reasonable. Silvally can run Defog, Serp/Sciz can as well, and like, I guess YArd and Lurantis can. But they shouldn't. Their spinners are mostly fake, though.

• It's hard for me to figure out what your opponent will be running, since I don't respect the sun subgroup. I'd guess Sneasler, Weavile, Serp, MSciz, and then... Silv Salazzle?
• I'd bring MLop, Darkrai, Azelf, Fezan, LandoT, and Alo, I'd think. Fezan + Alo can blank their offensive pieces well with LandoT's help, and then MLop and Darkrai can kill things. I could maybe see dropping Azelf for like, Treads, but I do kinda think Scarf Azelf goes super hard into Sneasler (not unburdened)/Salazzle/Sciz.

[olive halo]

I feel in the same boat as Af where I’m in a lot of pain, but I have no doubt AF means physical pain whereas mine is entirely mental and if she can put out a response so can I.

This team is crazy weird /neg. I hate almost every part of your opponents team. The sun doesn’t really compliment anything without going too hard into full sun with scovillan, weavile and sneasler are just a weird pairing and like af said 0 hazards few defoggers.
Your best way to beat this team is to just overwhelm it. If they bring charizard, just lead a rocker and set rocks and it will do most of the work for you. And if they bring scizor lead loppuny and go for powerful fighting moves immunities make their team bad. And if you’re ever worried about scarfs or being revenged, go to alomomola.
On alomamola I think there’s really only 2 items to run: Rocky helmet or red card. If you bring Rocky helmet sciz/weav are going to try to knock it off asap, but sneasler doesn’t get that luxury. And red card is good because it can force sneasler out after unburden is procced or weavile/sciz get an sd up essentially neutering them.
A common mistake I see across all levels of play is showing too much respect to your opponent. There team is weak to fighting and dark? Click the fighting and dark moves activate their berries when they don’t want to. Force uncomfortable switches. Just run specs dark pulse and kill things.
Finally my last tip is just don’t let your opponent find a win con. An example of this is say letting unburden sneasler run wild when it’s the last pokemon on their field. Do everything you can to minimize their odds of winning and you’ll realize that your odds of winning start to increase

[wicked pilot]

take care of yourself you two smh.

[mystic sundial]

@olive halo @rancid kestrel thank yall for the advice. Get well soon, I hope yall feel better

[jade solar]

@olive halo @rancid kestrel lost my week 2 game in the paldex MU, i slipped up to a cm pagos and he brought this really unconventional bolt set

but luckily jolt managed to minimize the damages otherwise would've dropped 0-3 or 0-4

got a lucky crit on sneas which helped me reduce my loss for my record to 1-1 -1

[fleet aurora]

This is all of the teams, mine is the Arcanine-H team down, I think I'm screwed guys

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fleet aurora]

This is what I got so far for my 24 mon team

[jade solar]

one sec

provide some conext lol

24 mon draft?

a ffa?

[fleet aurora]

So the long and short of it is

Myself and 6 others are against another team of 7

Each of us needs to fight each of those enemy 7 teams (not in succession, we can reset between battles)

The rules were that we could not pick the same mon as another player, it would be national dex, we'd get 2 megas, 1 tera and 1 uber and then 20 other mons as long as they are legal, and we can't use z-moves

[fleet aurora]

Every second team in this image is a team I need to fight, and each of those teams has their moves already locked in, but I can change anything about my mons for each battle

I havent replaced a pokemon with an uber yet or picked which one of them will be able terastallise, at the moment I'm just going through moves

and the reason I'm here asking for assistance is because I'm kinda new to showdown and the players on my team who've already battled have lost 34-1

If battling those 7 teams is that bad then my real question is not "how should I compose the team" but more "should I leave the tournament"

I feel like it will probably be fun regardless, but it sounds like they're livestreaming the jedi temple during order 66 and my team is the younglings

[olive halo]

Who have you played, sorry what is this?

I don't understand the draft/draft board I've never seen anything like this

[fleet aurora]

Tbh I dont much either

From my understanding we've been drafting 24 pokemon each and then making a sort of jack-of-all-trades composition of moves/abilities for those pokemon so that we can battle the opposing teams

I havent battled anyone yet (hence why my teams moves arent finished yet)

Hold on lemme get a better screenshot, that one is just from the group chat we have

We picked our pokemon starting from the left in order, so Doc took the first mon, Umbreon, then Araquanid and so on

and we weren't allowed to pick something already chosen, as I mentioned above

[olive halo]

Okay...

That's how a normal draft works

So how did you chose pokemon?

[fleet aurora]

Me personally?

[olive halo]

Everyone, like is there a board

Is there a tier system

Did someone spin a wheel?

[fleet aurora]

Oh we just got to pick any we wanted as long as it wasnt taken

Within the limits of legal pokemon in the national dex and as long as we only took a max of 2 megas, 1 tera and 1 uber

[olive halo]

What you didn't even have a list?

You just have to know the 1000 different pokemon?

[fleet aurora]

I guess so?

I'm really starting to realise why the others got beaten 34-1

The list was yeah basically every pokemon, obviously you'd want to take higher evolutions where possible, but otherwise the list was the entire dex

[olive halo]

This format is so confusing

I have never seen anything like this before

[fleet aurora]

You're telling me

In the time I've played pokemon I've never done something like this either

[olive halo]

My suggestion would to just have fun

Run pokemon and moves that make you laugh and that you'll have a good time using

And not take this too seriously

If you lose, you lose that's okay, and you should play actual draft with like tiers and points and compete against people

[fleet aurora]

Tbh thats my thoughts too, it just seems like theres no chance of beating those 7 teams with the same team of my own, even if I am allowed to change moves between each battle

I'm just gonna give all of my pokemon paralysis and sleep moves and pray that its enough

[olive halo]

Sounds super valid

Check if there's sleep clause enabled though

[fleet aurora]

I've he cant do anything then he cant win

[olive halo]

Sleep clause means only 1 pokemon can be asleep at a time

[fleet aurora]

Hmm okay, I'll ask

They've done this tournament before apparently, idk how the last tournament went but I assume it was also chaos

Its livestreamed on twitch

[rancid kestrel]

It's definitely a strange format. I can see the draft comparisons, but free pick definitely isn't a common or popular means of playing Draft. I would echo Happygate - if you want to play, then play, but the format is inherently different. Not unserious, just different.

There's no wrong way to play 'mons, but this format doesn't exist as a commonly played format, so advice is kinda non-existent, at least here. Maybe there's a community that does this often, but you won't find much build/prep help here since this is so distant from standard SV Draft.

[fleet aurora]

Thats kinda my thinking, I'll see how I go with it and let you guys know

[lofty wigeon]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2381683297

Got my first 6-0 ever in the PLAYOFFS BABY

[lofty wigeon]

https://pokepast.es/6a7082e331186357

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rancid kestrel]

Good stuff, congratulations! Every win's a challenge and a 6-0 is an alluring siren, so to catch it is awesome for sure. Well done, I can't say I understand your opponent's prep but I also have the benefit of hindsight watching it get 6'0d on lead in 9 turns...

[lofty wigeon]

we both needed to get it done quick so we did 15 min team build then play since i was on break

the only thing i was really really scared of was scarf fross with destiny bond

is there anything on my other mons that was just down right bad ?

[jade solar]

i got a bye

kek

[rancid kestrel]

Don't know that I understand Trailblaze on Rilla, SD on Tenta, or IHead on Shifu. Nothing downright bad, but they probably wouldn't be things I'd suggest in a thought-dump or my own build, I think.

[lofty wigeon]

Iron head shifu was simply coverage on M dia
SD Tenta i wanted to push the ho as far as i could. In my 6 other games it has only been a spk tank for the team.
Rillaboom, If glide sees a ko i would assume they switch then i can use the stronger moves, this one feel victim to the timer really. but that was my thoughts

I felt the speed advantage was so in my favor that no defense at all was the best

[rancid kestrel]

Isn't Trailblaze weaker than Grassy Glide...?

50 BP vs 55 BP?

[jade solar]

just wood hammer would've been fine

[lofty wigeon]

Yes but it was mainly the speed boost into the other mixed

moves

[rancid kestrel]

Wood Hammer would've been my expectation, yeah. I'm not sure Speed +1 matters a ton for Rilla but may depend on the MU I suppose.

[lofty wigeon]

SD would've been better even

[jade solar]

i either face a rematch or a new opponent

@rancid kestrel btw if this opponent looks familiar

it's because a mixed POs is happening

(i 6-0'd the same guy with gren + m lop)

[olive halo]

Congrats on the victory!

[jade solar]

week 3 now in WPF, my next Mu against a Dia-O + Tera Bundle draft. Tricky, but much more manageable than last week. Would loves some advice on it

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rancid kestrel]

Remind me, your Shifu is Single, right?

@jade solar

[jade solar]

yes

it's single strike

[olive halo]

Oh man what’s your freeze dry answer?

[jade solar]

nothing

[wicked pilot]

I believe in youuuu

[jade solar]

ty!

[rancid kestrel]

• It isnt often that a Bundle team is going to wander into a match where it isn't the fastest on the field. Moon can run Booster Speed, and I suppose Bundle can too (though it'd really rather not, it wants boots/boosting item/sitrus, I'd guess) but Dragapult is going to be outspeeding anything unboosted/scarfed.
• Their tiers are weird. OgerH without tera is kinda limiting, and that's their 110. Bundle and Moon are good, and fast, don't get me wrong, but OgerH -> Tenta -> LandoT/Rotom isn't exactly the most terrifying 110-100-90 ever. Sure, each of them can do stuff, but three of the four of them really don't want to be running 252+ every game. Maybe LandoT/Rotom could be into your team, that seems reasonable, but you can't fit all four on a lineup.
• Moon is a problem for you. It's not super scared of Pult or Jolt, sure Pult can kill it but it can kill Pult right back, and most Moons are gonna be able to outspeed the Pult on its first time out (or forever with a Scarf). You can make it work with Shifu, but beware Acrobatics obviously. A heavily defensive Zapdos can tank a hit and para it, or a scarf can outspeed non-booster speed and do the same.
• Their setting is weak, and their removal is hot garbage. It's just Tenta spinning? Yikes. At least Lando can set SR for them, but like... Are they really using OgerH to spike? That's the worst one of them in that role. Dialga-O obviously isn't bringing SR. Tenta can set TSpikes, but into a team with a Moth? I don't see that as likely.
• Your setting/removal isn't that much better, but at least your removal is more legitimate. You both struggle to set hazards - TSpikes into a team with Tenta is fake, Mesprit/Treads can set rocks reasonably well, and then Glalie spikes sure are a thing that can't really ever come. Even 252/252+ is always 2hko'd by Specs Bundle HPump. But hey if it's Boots and +Spe, then it's 'only' a 3HKO!

• I don't know what your Bundle switch-in is, like Happygate said. Jolteon can at least revenge it, I guess, or force it out and let Pult deal with it later, but it always kills with Specs HPump. Scarf Shifu can OHKO it with CC, but if it Teras out of the fighting weakness, it doesn't. But you can also Tera Shifu? Not sure what difference that makes. 252/252 Mesprit is 2hko'd by specs HPump, and I'm not sure what you do back. Zapdos can't respond to both Moon and Bundle.
• If I'm your opponent, I'm bringing Bundle, Moon, Dialga for sure. Then probably Lando+Tenta for hazards control (since Bundle hates hazards), but maybe just Tenta works and you put rocks on Dialga, lol. Last mon is probably a Scarf Rotom, if I had to guess? OgerH doesnt seem super good into your draft to me, Hariyama and EnamT aren't going to be able to support Bundle/Moon - maybe HWish EnamT could be a pain since most of your responses to Bundle are one-and-done.
• As for your team, I think maybe in your shoes I just try to out-offense and keep them on the back foot as early and as long as possible. Pult and Shifu obviously come, Treads has to come for hazard stuff I'd think. I probably bring Zapdos for Moon, Jolteon for Bundle I guess.
• Or I bring AVest Prim and hit it with Moonblast and hope it has 0 invest. That doesn't seem terrible? 252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Iron Bundle Freeze-Dry vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 288-340 (89.7 - 105.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO as compared to 252+ SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Water Iron Bundle: 252-297 (99.6 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
• Final mon then, I'd think that a Booster Speed Moth is still usable here, but I can also see bringing the other of Jolt/Prim, because Bundle really is that scary. I don't know that I see the space for Mesprit or Glalie here.

[jade solar]

well

what about scarf pult

outspeeds moon and bundle

and i've brought scarf for the same type of problem before

but i goofed up and didn't use it properly

i can use it to either remove bundle or scout for its tera

[rancid kestrel]

Sure, but what are you KOing Bundle with? DMeteor, I suppose?

[jade solar]

meteor or tbolt

[rancid kestrel]

Is there no Tera Preview?

[jade solar]

there is

scout its tera i mean

as in if it teras

[rancid kestrel]

Gotcha, sure.

[jade solar]

i can pivot using u turn and work a plan from there

[rancid kestrel]

Yeah, definitely doable to use Scarf Pult.

Might even be the correct choice instead of/alongside another less-solid response.

Ala the Zapdos or the Primarina for Moon/Bundle respectively.

[kindred igloo]

https://spo.ink/lt_iii_tiering

hi!

what should i get, im pool 2

very very very new to LT draft

[rancid kestrel]

Did you link the right sheet? This is the tiering document and not a pools document.

[jade solar]

i feel like ddarts is a better bring here

moon is beefy on the special side

so it will be problematic if i don't get the right range

and hits bundle fairy well also

[kindred igloo]

my bad!

https://spo.ink/low_tier_iii_draft_pools_1_16

pool

2

stuck on first pick 💀

what do you think is fun here while being competitive and having good synergy with other mons

[olive halo]

Doesn’t bundle have a massive defense stat?

Would it not be best to just attack it specially

[jade solar]

oh shi

yeah

i frgt it was stupidly bulky

on physical side

[rancid kestrel]

Fun is going to be within your hands. I think anything 16-18 points is worth considering. Heracross and Lucario offer incredible power for LT, Shocks Torn and Swampert are all flexible and versatile 'mons that can bring a lot to the table, Goodra Tinkaton Blastoise and Empoleon are all defensively strong and are useful utility-wise while not being dead weight offensively, Noivern Feraligatr and EnamT are somewhat one-note but (esp Tera Noivern/Gatr) are forces to be reckoned with in the prep doc and the game. You can even grab a Tera Captain that would otherwise be cheaper but can do a ton, such as Meloetta, Toxtricity, or Rhyperior - all are dangerous Tera Captains worth the price they're set.

Without knowing your personal preferences or play style, I couldn't give you a recommendation on what to take. If you want my thoughts on what I'd personally take, I would personally consider Sandy Shocks or Blastoise, two 'mons that can be both defensive utility options or offensive sweepers depending on what I need. I'd also consider Tera Rhyperior, that's a scary 'mon with Tera that can be somewhat flexible in what it does match-to-match.

[kindred igloo]

i see. i picked tornadus

before you wrote this

[rancid kestrel]

A very good option, for sure.

[kindred igloo]

i was thinking of a fast NP user

now its my turn again

sandy shocks, dudunsparce and hera are picked now

blastoise?

im considering blastoise swampert lucario or rhyperior 🤔

[rancid kestrel]

I would look at getting a Tera Captain worth your attention - there's a pretty big diffrence between, say, "oh yeah I guess I can tera Uxie" compared to, "Shaymin is my Tera Captain and you are going to have to figure out how to play against it"

Blastoise is a good choice too - getting a top tier removal is going to be very beneficial, and it can be offense-focused with Shell Smash in situations that call for it.

You are definitely still at the point where you could pick most any top tier 'mon and do okay with building out your draft, but it'd be worth considering that TornT doesn't give you any hazards presense, but fills a key speed tier spot. Lucario gives you 90Speed, Blastoise gives you removal, and Swampert gives you one Rocks. Rhyperior can rocks, too, but its presence would be as a Tera Captain, so it shouldn't be a consistent rocker for you.

You really can't go wrong with these picks. What you pick now will inform what you pick later - Rhyperior locks in your primary TC, Blastoise means you have to worry a ton less about removal (not 0, but a ton less), Lucario gives you another speed tier slot filled, and Swampert provides a good start to the hazard setting.

[kindred igloo]

so what im thinking is to get tentacruel

i think it gets rapid spin (?)

and it would give me grounded poison + water type + removal

so id wanna go tera cap/breaker/hazard mon now

[rancid kestrel]

Tentacruel is a good option. It isn't great as a speed tier 'mon, but it does role compression pretty well.

[kindred igloo]

for that reason, i want to eliminate blastoise and swampert. shaymin could be decent, yeah. rhyperior too, and so would lucario.

just comes down to whats fun tbh, i think lucario might be cool. wdyt?

[rancid kestrel]

Lucario is for sure fun. I don't know if it falls to you after picking Tentacruel, but if it's still up by the time you're picking again it definitely works well.

[kindred igloo]

wait, does base luca get adaptability?

[rancid kestrel]

No

Steadfast, Inner Focus, Justified

[kindred igloo]

ah, no. i meant to get tentacruel t3? idk if it would still be up though.

[rancid kestrel]

Which like, aren't bad! You can ignore flinches or turn a Knock Off into a sweep (assuming physicval Luc), but yeah Adaptability would probably mean it'd be banned, haha.

[kindred igloo]

might just take shaymin with tera

[rancid kestrel]

If it isn't, to be honest, it isn't the end of the world.

Lucario + TornT are a scary duo as offensive pieces to start a draft with.

[kindred igloo]

only reason i wanted luca was adaptability bullet punches and vacuum waves LOL

[kindred igloo]

ooo 👀

and would cover steel slot

alright, sounds cool. thanks!

[rancid kestrel]

I wouldn't call Lucario a particularly good 'mon as a Steel-type. It's not really bulky enough to take the hits you'd want out of a proper Steel type.

[kindred igloo]

alright

thanks for all your help! :D

[rancid kestrel]

Happy to help, yeah!

[kindred igloo]

hi! im going to pick tentacruel, and i have torn + lucario. dyt i should go for roles now, or more offense? i lack a tera cap btw, but shaymin and rhyperior got taken

😔

perhaps a bit of hatterene? i am blissfully unaware of this tier

[rancid kestrel]

It's not the end of the world to miss out on a max-price Tera Captain. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

I would start to look at entry hazard stuff - you have Spin on Tenta, and it also brings TSpikes, but you're probably going to want at least one more reasonable removal and then obviously you need usable setting for SR and ideally Spikes.

Hatterene is alright, it's a utility Pokemon that given the reduced power of LT can probably be a reasonable offensive threat. It doesn't give you hazards which isn't the end of the world, but does mean that your back four picks are going to need to be mostly budget options that can handle hazards/additional removal - not impossible but also not ideal.

Compare this to, say, a Cobalion (do not take Cobalion to be clear you have a Lucario), which adds Rocks while also providing utility/offensive pressure.

Hatterene works well if you want to take it, and might even be a good Tera Captain based on its price being two points higher than its base cost. But do realize if you do that you're going to be looking at much cheaper back half options in order to fill out stuff like utility, defensive pieces, hazards setting/removal, etc.

[kindred igloo]

very true. alright, i shall look at hazards. and yes, i was NOT going to take cobalion haha

@rancid kestrel im considering tera iron thorns for spikes maybe. forretress doesn't seem too bad either, would allow me to go smth other than tenta maybe

clodsire could be funny maybe

OR

i could go gligar

OO

hippowdown + tenta maybe

bronzong perhaps

oh mudsdale sounds cool

[rancid kestrel]

Tera Thorns would be a bit of a difficult when it comes to Spiking, since it being Tera kinda means it wants to do more than just spend turns trading momentum for hazards. Not unfixable, but just something to consider.

Of the options you've suggested, I like Gligar the most, as it gives you another Ground immune, all three hazards, a nice defensive pest, and it doesn't really compound any major weaknesses. But that's a personal preference thing I have for Gligar as a 'mon.

However, none of the options you've suggested are things I'd encourage you to avoid. I think I'd be least excited about Clodsire personally, but again, personal preference type thing.

[kindred igloo]

i also like gligar, its a 5 point cheap beast

im just unsure whether to go hazard control or offense this time

[rancid kestrel]

If my mons are Torn / Luc / Tenta, I'd be looking at hazard control. Torn and Luc are going to pull their weight in a vaccuum, I wouldn't feel too worried about needing to give them a third top-tier offense mon at the cost of making sure you don't start on the backfoot in the hazard game every match.

[kindred igloo]

i have tentacruel as hazard control

or do you mean setting up hazards

oh, i have a coolish idea. wdyt of skarmory?

i feel like my pace might be very mismatched though

[rancid kestrel]

Tentacruel gets Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes. You need more of both removal and setting, solo-removal Tentacruel is going to be quite exploitable. Your backup removal isn't going to need to be godly, it just needs to be usable.

[kindred igloo]

yeah, was thinking hatterene haha. i could do funny no hazards only magic bounce maybe LOL

[rancid kestrel]

Skarmory pick at that point I'd start raising the alarms about a pretty worrying Electric weakness, since it can't easily be patched up with a Ground-type due to the nature of BoltBeam or even Water-type coverage.

[kindred igloo]

true

[rancid kestrel]

I think Magic Bounce Hatterene is doable, a bit gimmicky but if you can make it work and feel confident in your ability to control the hazard removal stuff w/ Hatt+Tenta then it can definitely work.

[kindred igloo]

i could go hatt + tenta + gligar maybe

[rancid kestrel]

Definitely doable.

[olive halo]

Every low tier team needs as many rockers and spikers as you can get as well as someone to set screens. You just need those options available even if light clay is banned and you don’t have a spin blocker

Being able to just shut down certain options like a cb gallade from entering or using screens to prevent a setup Pokemon from sweeping is just too powerful

[tall spruce]

Team so far what would yal suggest i try adding or replacing?

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rancid kestrel]

What's the context here? What is the format, rules, points board, etc?

[tall spruce]

Nduu, pick per tier space, singles

[rancid kestrel]

I don't know what any of that means, other than Singles. It doesn't sound like traditional Draft. Is there a league/draft board you can link?

[marsh hatch]

Any tips/pointers ?

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[marsh hatch]

Victini is a super dangerous mon

Wish I drafted it

[olive halo]

It is a very dangerous mon

However you have a cool and dope palafin

With jet punch

Words

I don't think they bring sun

Sun enables Victini, wake, kinda venu, and torkoal

And if gard is in, nothing switches into it

I mean that's true of the whole team

But with sand they at least have ttar and excadril

And celestela will come no matter what

Having a tera kilo and arch is so good here too

Celestela hates those pokemon. I like a power herb electro shot set that's bulky with body press. And tera your kilo. arch is so good here. Counters steela, fini, ttar and a little bit of exca if you have enough stamina boosts

Scarf kart is also cool it ties wake in Sun

Wake fastest mon is also so bad

Sorry af if you're writing this big long thing and then I come in with 3 words that summarize your points

[rancid kestrel]

Always, and always appreciated.

I'll just write up on my ramble and focus on things I don't see you mention. Always happy to be sniped by precise, usable, useful information while I ramble about draft theory and 'mon usability.

[olive halo]

I'd bring palafin, kart, kilo, arch, gard, and maybe rain, maybe clef but I don't love clef into 2 steels + venu and bringing your own rain is just asking for it to get swapped to sun/sand

My other big note is fini hard walls palafin, but also you have kilo, kart, and to a lesser extent gard and arch but I wouldn't rely on those

Oh and a big issue is going to be how are you going to stomach hydro steams? hmmm. Might need to out offense, might need to work arch overtime

[rancid kestrel]

• Their team is strange. Weather is tough in Draft, because you can see it coming a million miles away and prepare for it. Double weather is even stranger, because not only can you see it coming (and often, weather responses are the same across weathers, since weather abusers are often copy-paste change the flavor, ala Clorophyll/Sand Rush, damage boosters, whatever) they don't have the way to fully commit to one weather.
• Take TTar and Exca as an example, if TTar comes alone it's super unhelpful, but bringing both is a third of your opponents team that doesn't really interact with anything else. Then there's Torkoal and Wake/Victini, and like, pre-Mega Venu? Maybe some of these 'mons don't need the weather, like Exca, but again, it's a lot of eggs into a very visible basket that can easily be prepared for.
• Another drawback of the double weather stuff is that some of these 'mons don't add other stuff to the team. For example, their fastest 'mon is 109, not considering for weather boosting Exca/Venu. 109-100-95 isn't bad, but it does mean that your opponent needs to rely on weather being up it feels like in order to handle speed control. It's not like Indeedee can even really run speed, and nothing barring Victini and maybe Exca really wanna run Scarf. So their speed control is Exca in Sand or Venu, pre-Mega, in Sun.
• And then there's the hazard stuff. Frankly, your hazard removal isn't great, Kartana is maybe the only one likely to be able to remove in any given game, but their hazard is kinda weak by nature of it being mostly weather mons wanting to do other things. It's kinda just SR on their weather setters, since Exca's purpose here is not to be super utility. Its already likely gotta run Rapid Spin, it cannot be wasting weather turns setting up SR, or worse, spending turns out of weather putting up SR.

• Their hazard removal is kinda alright, Fini can do a ton of work there. But you can see the reliance on Fini to kinda solo-carry it, because Torkoal and Exca really shouldn't be leading the charge there. In standard ladder formats, you can more reasonably get removal or setting on your weather mons, because you know that your opponent (in this case, you!) isn't able to prep specifically for your ten mons. But in Draft, you know [torkoal/tyranitar] is coming, because the team is super rudderless without it.
• Another problem with weather stuff is weakness compiling - look at what their response to Ground is. It's just Celesteela, and like, bulky MVenu. Your team isn't super inclined to take advantage of it, but like, it's not impossible to do a surprise Tera of it (I do not recommend Tera Ground into Fini Wake Venu) but like, look at Water. Sure, Wake, Fini, Venu, this isn't quite ground, but 1 and 3 aren't going to appreciate Close Combats and 2 Happygate already kinda talked about.
• I am not a fan of double weather teams in Draft, clearly. I think that they suffer from identity crises, running out of space to cover for both standard goodstuff Draft practices and picks, while also making each weather meaningful. Like, just look at their Sandstorm version - it's two mons! Not that Exca is bad, sure, but it's a bit afterthought compared to the sun version, but even that only has two, maybe three traditional abusers. And then to patch up the inherent weaknesses of building weather in Draft, you see them try to toss in stuff like Fini, Indeedee, which is maybe some wack X Surge third rail variant, Celesteela...
• I dunno. I'm of the mind that weather teams show their weakest when they are unable to keep up the tempo and stay in the narrative control of a match, and when it's not properly built (and I am not convinced this is properly built) it's easy to find the cracks in the armor in the builder and the battlefield to take that tempo and contrl away from them.

[lofty sparrow]

oops hold on i forgot their caps

https://pokepast.es/ac24a9de9a83f33d

very basic idea atm

i'll optimize cyclizar so it just outspeeds chi-yu later

other than that ghold outspeeds unboosted adamant gyarados

[solemn warren]

Sobble

[solemn warren]

Anyway I'm curious
Scale Shot Garchomp without Loaded Dice?

[lofty sparrow]

idk solid stab into chomper seemed nice

uh

i mean gyarados

i could change it to dragon claw

[solemn warren]

You're going in without Tera which does put you at a slight disadvantage
Tera Steel Excadrill and all that jazz

[lofty sparrow]

yeah but idk if either pert or hatt rly helps here

damn this is the part where i regret drafting an 8 mon team huh

[solemn warren]

The one thing I'd really worry about would be a potential Choice Scarf Chi Yu

I need to do calcs brb

252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 182-215 (50.9 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You could switch to chomp and EQ if he decided to keep the fish

252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 273-323 (76.4 - 90.4%) -- not a KO

Scale Shot, even at +0, is a KO with 5 hits

Single Strike Urshifu is also one hell of a threat, and it can stop a Kingambit reverse sweep at the drop of a hat

He also has... The pink blob...

But overall your team will have the speed advantage most of the time
Zapdos serves as a good Gyarados check (if it's unboosted) but beware of Ice Fang

Other than Skarmory he doesn't really have hazards while Swampert can get rocks off and chomp can get spikes on the field

[rancid kestrel]

A few short thoughts...

• What is their speed tier situation? Fastest 'mon Whimsi who is already relying on Prankster, second fastest is 100 Chi-Yu? I suppose it's going to be incredibly obvious what their Scarf is based on their response once Chomp takes a kill. ChiYu seems like the obvious pick here to me, but Shifu and Exca both can. Gyara probably shouldn't. I just think that ChiYu becomes way less useful if it's not outspeeding Chomp.
• They have a lot of good setters, even if all of Clef/Skarm/Gastro are impossible to bring together. However, they have a single removal, Spin on Exca, which really limits what their Exca can do. On the other hand, your hazards are slightly worse, since Gambit's never rocking and Chomp limits itself bringing hazards every week. Your removal is slightly better, if only because Cyclizar is fine running Spin every game - Defog Conkeldur isn't real, though.

• It seems to me that Whimsi, ChiYu, and Shifu are all mandatory into you. Whimsi as their fastest mon and Prankster, ChiYu and Shifu as their breakers. From there, I'd think I'd want like, a defensive Exca, good answer to Dengo/Zap(minus heat wave) and can bring hazards/removal, Gyarados for Intimidate/potential sweeping, and then... Cresselia? Could also maybe see Snorlax or Gastro. Clef seems hard to bring into Gambit/Dengo alongside Whimsi. Skarm could come over Exca at the cost of removal.
• What is your Meowscarada? You have a Meow that isnt on the image? Or is that a typo or something? ?_?
• I'm not convinced I'm a huge fan of recovery-less Dengo, what is Shadow Ball hitting? Cress, I guess, but that doesn't seem worth it. You never win that fight against specially defensive Cress unless you're already boosted. And like, if you are, MIR does functionally the same (83-98 SBall, 62-73 MIR) and it's not like you are trying to kill SpD Cress with Dengo anyway.
• Blahblah speed tiers, whatever. You'll figure it out I'm sure.
• Not sure I'm in love with Chomp/Gambit items, but if they get you the rolls you're looking for, thumbs up. Just make sure they're better than Sitrus/Boots/Dice(for chomp) in your eyes, and it's not like it's the Wrong pick.

[cerulean aspen]

Singles, National Dex

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean aspen]

(the format rotates Doubles / Singles every week so the teams are wonky)

I'm thinking Shifu-RS / Tornadus / MLati / Incineroar / Alo / Metagross
but also want to slot on Diancie... Metagross does hot garbage into their top 4 but stabs + knock do p well into bottom of the list
but also rly rly need a check to DD roost facade eq malt

[random geyser]

incineroar has his work cut out for him stopping spectrier from immediately winning

[cerulean aspen]

yeah although incin + alo is probably one of the better spect answers
it doesn't insta lose to draining kiss / wisp at least

Tornadus also looks weirdly good
if stuff is chipped Life Orb / Expert Belt
Agility / Icy Wind / Dark Pulse / Flying move

lati dracos are also kinda... free? it can't really hit malt after it megas

[random geyser]

does banded bullet from meta kill alt

[cerulean aspen]

does 70% ish

[random geyser]

hmmm

[cerulean aspen]

252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 16 HP / 16 Def Altaria-Mega: 204-240 (69.1 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[random geyser]

prob not worth risking magnet pull for that then

[cerulean aspen]

yeah want EQ asw and not-banded
Shuca could work here I guess?
Bullet Punch / Earthquake / Heavy Slam / Ice Punch?

[cerulean aspen]

first of all, tell whoever made the draft board to make it look nicer 😭

[spark python]

lmaoooo

[cerulean aspen]

second, any of the 20pt megas or tapus are good

lele not so much

[spark python]

okay bet

[rancid kestrel]

• Your opponent has Spectrier and you have no switchins - Incineroar doesn't really count, since it has no recovery. Alo can pass wishes I guess, but Meow on top of Spectrier is truly a mountain to overcome. You have three 'mons faster than your fastest, and you have no real way to boost your speed. You have a speed gap from 97 to 70 (Cutiefly and Thwackey do not count), meaning they could legit bring six faster than most of your team. I guess Shifu can run Scarf, it'll probably need to.
• Your hazard removal is super limited, and their hazard setting is super solid. Sure, Nidoqueen / Bibarel are rarely coming, but Lando can get SR up well and Meow is a solid setter. You're kinda forced into Defog on MLati, which can't be a good feeling here.
• Your hazard setting is middling, but they have good removal in response between Spin Mie and Defog Lando. I'd almost be tempted to recommend webs here to reply to Spec/Meow/Volc, but Volc is prob boots anyway and it's not difficult at all for them to remove it once its set, and its not like Cutiefly can get off multiple a game. At the very least, you can probably do well enough keeping SR up on the field with Meta/Diancie? Maybe.

• Like you pointed out, they don't really have a Dragon resist. MAlt once it's set up can blank it, sure, and Magnezone is a resist-in-name-only, but I'm also seeing a weak response to Psychic here - I'm not sure Meta can take advantage of it, and Lati already has Dragon to spam. There's also a Flying weakness - literally the only resist is Magnezone. Something for Torn to take advantage of, with a Scarf perhaps if you choose to not Scarf Shifu?
• Presumably, they bring Spec and Meow. If I'm them, I also bring Starmie, Volc, and LandoT. Final mon, presumably, is MAlt. I suppose I could see dropping Starmie or Volc, but I'm not convinced. This a top-heavy draft and their main power is up top. As such, LandoT kinda has to set hazards, Starmie has to remove them, but the other three (MAlt excluded) kinda have to be super aggresive/setup mons. MAlt can be utility or offense.
• I think I would be inclined to agree on your selected six, I don't think Meta should be offensive here as you said it does poorly into the top, but smth like psyfangs+knock+sr+? and a more defensive set is maybe usable here. Otheriwse I suppose you probably bring Diancie as a hazards spammer? Unsure. Wack format means you've got plenty of uneffective 'mons - like, Incin is just not good in Singles, but Spectrier is them yknow?

[cerulean aspen]

Although you say that Incin doesn't count as a Spectrier switchin, I'm kind of forced to bring it here, no?

[rancid kestrel]

I don't know what I am looking at. Was this sheet made manually? Sorry to whoever got stuck with that task. Anyway, you're pretty far removed from standard Draft - doubles vs singles, gen 7 vs gen 9. You're unlikely to find much help here, to be honest. I'd probably just grab whatever 20pt 'mon you feel happiest with. All these 19pt mons feel like tricks, though - I cannot imagine Celesteela, Kartana, or MGarde are anything near as good in doubles as they are in singles.

[cerulean aspen]

it's my only ghost resist and otherwise I am truly run over by Shadow Ball spam

[spark python]

sorry for the trouble, ill see what i can do, thank ya

[rancid kestrel]

Oh yeah, for sure, you're definitely forced to bring it, but chip after chip builds up, and like you said, you don't really have another option. I guess you can WishPass with Alo to help it, but a Incin+Alo focused on specifically countering Spectrier are liable to get undermined by Volc/Meow and then you're in big trouble.

[rancid kestrel]

I mean, if you come in here, I'll do what I can to help, but the venn diagram of folks who help here that both understand Gen 7 and understand Doubles is maybe a single person, and I'm not sure they're active at all.

[cerulean aspen]

yeah meow is rly hard for me to deal with here
also due to hazard stack I'm kind of forced into bringing boots spdef incineroar and if I ever get knocked it's even worse
something like Knock Off / U-turn / Wisp (do I even bring Wisp? if it's facade malt I just lose) / filler?

[cerulean aspen]

I believe that WBG has one hold on

yeah @spark python https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I-Qz71FpHlp6RzQ6t0_sWg6b0Sp2WHT0T7GK9tKTJ9Q/edit?gid=2033435174#gid=2033435174
the USUM tab and just copy the tiers from there
or directly from Data

[rancid kestrel]

(Make sure that this league is okay being yanked from...)

[spark python]

i didnt make the board

[rancid kestrel]

I'd consider Parting Shot over U-Turn, I'm not convinced you need to worry about chipping Spec (esp given DKiss), I'd more want it to be hitting off -1 to whatever comes in if Spec stays in.

[spark python]

ill use what i can, i didnt make the board and dont have the ability to change it, thank you though

[cerulean aspen]

it's from the samples so it's fine hopeless is p free about it
also about the U-turn choice it was more about hitting meow though I'm not sure meow ever comes in on incin anyways... good point

[rancid kestrel]

Even if it does, it's a free switch in for Torn, I'd think.

[cerulean aspen]

mm would be scared of being chunked by Knock but yeah
was thinking maybe expert belt agility 3 attacks torn

[rancid kestrel]

Can do for sure.

[lofty sparrow]

oops yeah i do have a meowscarada

[lofty sparrow]

thanks for the advice tho

[jade solar]

https://pokepast.es/ebc23436bf1a49eb changed up the team now a bit

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jade solar]

decided specs pult was better incase he was boots on bundle

so i can just quickie him on the spot

have to change up the shifu evs prob

[jade solar]

@rancid kestrel @olive halo

[solemn warren]

The biggest question is
Can you Mega your Diancie

[jade solar]

if he could, it would be put as mega diancie

[solemn warren]

Then uh
Budget hazard setter?

[olive halo]

Yeah that team looks solid enough

[jade solar]

which team

[olive halo]

The one you just posted

[jade solar]

ah

alr

made the shifu to outpace lando now

only change i did

i'll need rocks up as early as i can get them

[rancid kestrel]

Nothing screams out as something I'd question.

[jade solar]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9draft-2384255361-htjt5pplxnwa4d66xqjsidcgfuxcgnjpw

https://tenor.com/view/maya-kumashiro-seikimatsu-occult-gakuin-anime-girl-fall-gif-12803392

[lofty wigeon]

Hello! i'm doing a Gen DOU draft
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19msmzPFp75jqxIm2GhajalXC4fy2KHNyJ7xlub8-vfI/edit?usp=drivesdk

Not listed is my armoroge pick

I'm thinking i want to take a tailwind mon next,Zapdos or Killowatterl

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rancid kestrel]

Zapdos strikes me as more viable in doubles than Kilowattrel, but I'm not super knowledgeable on Doubles Draft.

[jade solar]

zapdos is a fraud in any format

[lofty wigeon]

not in gen 6/7

[cerulean aspen]

ew psyspam

wait

Mew is there?

[lofty wigeon]

yes

[cerulean aspen]

Raging Bolt is still there???

[lofty wigeon]

yes

honestly if they come around i'll prob take mew for year

[cerulean aspen]

so what you do is you drop Iron Hands during grace and you get bolt

[lofty wigeon]

tera

[cerulean aspen]

there are tera captains nvm this is fraud

[lofty wigeon]

2 unrestricted

[cerulean aspen]

yeah idk

there's a lot of good stuff but rly expensive

[lofty wigeon]

how does the team look in general ?

i got zap

[cerulean aspen]

46 for another 5 mons?

oh drop zap

u have hands

[lofty wigeon]

i wanted tailwind

[cerulean aspen]

Amoonguss
Ogerpon-Wellspring
Iron Hands
Indeedee
Zapdos
Armarouge
??

right?

[lofty wigeon]

correct

[cerulean aspen]

nah u never want Tailwind here imo
just lean hard TR
if you want speed get Deoxys or sm

i mean it's fine

but zapdos not great here

WAIT @lofty wigeon take Jirachi rn

next pick take it IMMEDIATELY

that mon is so broken idc u have 4 redirection that mon is broken
also ya amoonguss bad here

[lofty wigeon]

my format knowledge is getting flamed rn

i'll take it if it doesn't get taken

[lofty wigeon]

i got the wish granter

[lofty wigeon]

@cerulean aspen Mew and R Bolt will be around for grace period should i just get booth

[cerulean aspen]

eeh i mean hands is probs fine

[marsh hatch]

Thank you for the pointers. Won the matchup(They ended up bringing sun)

[marsh hatch]

Won my matchup with Arch working overtime(With a crit draco 🙂 ) and I used AV politoed for wake

Anybody want to give me tips for this matchup

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[olive halo]

Congrats! I’ll look at your next weeks mu later when I’m free

[rancid kestrel]

Don't have time to do a review right this moment, but is Shed Tail unbanned in your league or not?

[lofty wigeon]

it is

well the rules only say baton but it says no passing subs so

[rancid kestrel]

Wait, so is it or is it not allow? I asked if it was unbanned, you said yes, then you said passing subs was not allowed?

[lofty wigeon]

oh i read your question wrong

it is banned

i have my matchup for this league as well which is the other rain team in play offs

Urshifu R and Hound are his tera, torn is mine

[rancid kestrel]

OK, chewing through this now. Working on the assumption that Shed Tail is illegal, because it being legal sucks!

• I like their speed stuff a lot more than yours. Dia has to Mega first, but we aren't in ORAS anymore. I mean, they've got Zera hard to compete there. Maybe you could do like, VA Kilo, lol, but I'm not convinced that 70/60 is gonna tank a coverage move. I can see a Scarf Kartana or Palafin or something working here for you, but those kinda bounce off of Zeraora anyway. For them, I could see Booster Speed ICrown, maybe a scarf on... Manaphy? That doesn't feel right. What even is their usual speed control? Are they really just relying on Zera? Mayube I don't like it as much as I thought.
• Their hazard setting is not great, it's exclusively on Gliscor and MDia (MBounce or not). Their removal is a bit better, Glisc/Cyc can both easily run their removal options, and ThundyT and Volc can do so in a pinch. They also don't have a TSpikes absorber, but I'm not convinced that's relevant for most of their team, btwn Take Heart on Mana, boots on Cyc/Zera, natural immunity for Crown, only really MDia/Volc/Scrafty don't like it, and like, one of those 'mons has Shed Skin and already isn't really real.
• Your setting is not great, Clef can reasonably set rocks but Overqwil if it comes (ngl it looks kinda good?) is it really going to be carrying hazards? Your removal is also not great, I really don't think Kartana is good into your opponent's team already, and it's gonna have to be burdened with removal? Uh oh. You can't even rely on your opponent to Defog, because they could reasonably just Spin w/ Cyclizar.
• Your team has one fairy resist, and it's Kartana. You get safely 2HKO'd by Moonblast, even through the resist, unless you run a ton of SpD EVs. And even then, Mystical Fire still wrecks you. If I'm your opponent, I'm bringing an offensive MDiancie and wrecking you.

• Flipping the table, your opponent has one Psychic resist (aside Scrafty), and it's Iron Crown. The problem with it is that Crown takes like, 3HKO damage with just an AVest from Mystical Fire of your own.
• I think that if I was in your shoes, I probably have to bring Intimidate Overqwil for Zera, and SpD Clef/Toed for MDia (though even SpD Clef is a shoddy check, god is the answer Politoed?). I probably also bring Palafin and MGard since I gotta kill things one way or another, probably Scarf on Pala to ensure that it doesn't get outsped by everything. If I'm bringing Toed, may as well bring Arch. Final mon... could see Hitmontop for hazard control/more Intimidate for Zera, Drifblim for some wack ass cheese strats, hell even Vikavolt for like, Webs, lol. I think that Kartana is super bad here, and frankly I don't see the value of Kilo, but like, its competing with Intimidate Hitmontop and Vikavolt, yknow? Maybe it is just Kilo.
• Your opp in my mind brings Zera, Cyclizar, ThundyT, MDia, ICrown, and Gliscor. I could see Manaphy or Volcanion, but I don't really know what you could reasonably drop for either. Cyclizar, maybe?

Orbit I'll take a look at your MU after lunch.

[formal haven]

AF carrying this channel as always

[lofty wigeon]

sounds good thank you, i'll be at a concert tonight so it can even wait till tmr

[rancid kestrel]

• You're facing rain. I'm not sure what Victreebel/Houndstone is doing there, though - roster prep for sun or sand? Odd. But everything barring Darkrai and Boltund sorta seems focused on working well in rain. Some positives, it gives you accurate Hurricane and a number of them turn off outside of rain (MSwamp) or become less effective (Arch), but it's not like they can't operate outside of rain (Darkrai, Ogerpon, Shifu).
• The problem with Rain is that your speed disadvantage here is exacerbated with MSwamp going real quick. I could see like, Scarf Mienshao working here, or Shifu? But you're going to be at the speed disadvantage a bunch, even just naturally. Darkrai outspeeds everything natural, Boltund if it comes ties with your fastest mon, Ogerpon outspeeds everything else. It drops off after there, but Darkrai+Ogerpon are a tough one-two punch.
• You have a Hippo. It will crumble against MSwamp, and it cant really reply to it, but it can at least change the weather against... Arch, I guess? If you can get the turn right on predicting the Electro Shot, you can do a lot of disruption there.
• Their setting and removal sucks. Just flatly bad. Rocks on Arch and MSwamp on a rain team? Neither want to give up the turns to set up rocks! Oger can do Spikes, but then their only removal is Defog on Pelipper, so are they really gonna waste 1-3 turns setting up Spikes they have to remove anyway on their own?

• I actually like Forry here as a setter for you, Tenta works too but is chewed up by Electro Shot/Earthqake, you'd have to figure out what you like. But something like, Rocks on Hippo and Spin+Tspikes on Tenta/Forry seems like it could go pretty far, I don't see a ton of space for Boots on your opponent's team - maybe Darkrai or Pelipper, but each has items it wants to run more, Peli especially.
• I wouldn't sleep on Peli doing stuff here. You have no flying resistance other than Gholdengo. But otherwise, you have solid responses to Water, Ground, Fighting and Dark, which would be what I'd expect to be the primary offensive options your opponent will have, between MSwamp, Darkrai, Shifu. The big questions to me is if you can fit in the space to resist Arch and Peli attacks too.
• If I'm you, I build off Hippo and Forry. The latter can't really heal, which is a bit worrying, but it's nothing that can't be overcome. I think you gotta bring Gholdengo, Rillaboom, and Shifu - though you could maybe bench Dengo? It just seems like a decent offensive option. Surely TornT has to come even as a tera captain, their flying resistances are limited and don't come with good healing, and you have perfect accuracy Hurricane in their weather. I just see terrain-boosted Glide as a really useful reply to Swamp/Shifu, and even potentially a weakened Darkrai. It can also help Forry heal a bit potentially. And like, scarf Shifu scares the shit out of Darkrai, and TPunch can delete Pelipper if you wanna gamble a prediction. CC does like 45-53 to a +1 252/252 Archaludon.
• I can see other options coming, especially if you don't mind leaving the Forry/Tenta at home. I'm sure there are Slowbro sets that can handle Shify/Swamp, Mienshao as a Scarf option can do decent into stuff like Darkrai probably I dunno.

• If I'm your opponent, I imagine I bring Pelipper, Darkrai, Shifu, and MSwamp - that seems non-negotiable. I probably bring two of Ogerpon, Archaludon, or Hatterene. I kinda don't like Hatterene into a team that has Dengo, Shifu-Single, amd the pace that a rain team naturally wants to operate at, so my gut instinct is that Ogerpon and Arch come. I think spending a sixth of your team on Sand Rush Houndstone is not real, but I'd also never draft "anti-other-weather" options on my draft weather team.
• I'd think I'd put rocks on Arch, it strikes me as better than on Swampert which gives free opportunities for Rilla to come in and scare you out? I'd maybe Scarf Oger here, Darkrai LO? To get kills easier... Maybe if you rely on MSwamp you decide you don't need a Scarfer, though. I don't think I agree with that, maybe normally but into a Hippo? I don't think so. But maybe Shifu is the scarfer?

[brave ruin]

Team for an atla based league, i choose water tribe, i want to replace araquanid for another mon(i have kyurem, iron leaves, and grimmsnarl in mind, but im open to any suggestion)
, the ones with a red background are open to take

format is gen 9 natdex draft

[rancid kestrel]

@brave ruin So if this is a gimmick draft/league, I'm not sure how much help will be possible to provide, but I'll give some immediate thoughts.

• You have nothing between Kartana at 109 speed and Quaquaval at 85 speed, which is alarming to me. That's a lot of 'mons that won't have to worry about speed investment, since they'll never outspeed Kart, and don't have to worry about doing much to outspeed Quaq. Moreso if they ignore it because they aren't scared of what it can do or if they assume you'll always be at +1 Speed due to Aqua Step - a bad assumption, but at that point you're worried about them not needing to run any speed at all, basically. That's a ton more defensive EVs they can use because you've got nothing around 90-100.
• You don't have Stealth Rocks. You have okay Spikers, okay TSpikers, good enough removal, but not a single Stealth Rock setter. SR is the best move in competitive Pokemon and Draft - I'd look into fixing this.
• Kyurem and ILeaves solve your speed issue well enough, but don't add hazards. That said, I'm not sure anything available to you solves both your problems. Mamoswine does, sorta? But at a glance I don't see anything else.
• In the end, pick what you feel is best, restriction drafting is inherently restricting, especially when the restriction is something divorced from 'mons altogether. If you want to run without something in that speed tier, a team without SR, or both, that's your perogative.
• Tera Zarude is super powerful if that's a thing. Ogerpon is too, but less so. Rillaboom is a top tier threat, so are Primarina and Kyurem. Ditto is a good builder threat against setup sweepers, Silvally has a niche of being any type which can help in a pinch against teams that you don't have an answer for a specific type of, etc. Some scattershot ideas potentially to consider if you wanna go "off-script".

[brave ruin]

alr bet ty for the insight

i think mamoswine could prob bet the best asset in that case

[brave ruin]

single, natdex (im thinking i bring quaq weavile mamoswine ogerpon kartana and then slowbro but im not too sure)

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brave ruin]

i also dk if i want to bring a scarf quaq to keep up w gliscor and azelf or play bulky

[olive halo]

Any special rules we should know? Tera pokemon, Z mons etc

[brave ruin]

no teras, thats basically it

[olive halo]

Hi why does your kartana just win on the spot after corv drops?

I guess lop/aerodactly exist and are faster

But everything else dies to smart strike + leaf blade + sacred sword

[brave ruin]

wait act?

i js picked kartana up

[formal haven]

You have so much things that can overwhelm his team honesty. Corvi is their only real phsycial check.

[brave ruin]

didnt know it was THAT broken

[olive halo]

Just that with an SD and just win--what beats kart on their team /gen

It's just corv and the 2 pokemon faster

And lop isn't even faster unless it mega evolves

[formal haven]

You can run the SD + Speedboost set(or Salac berry i guess)

Also you need to bring bro/pex to check Lopunny, I recommend not megaing instantly to keep regenerator value

[olive halo]

I am unsure about how real speed boosting is because you need to lower attack for it to work. I have never gotten it to work

[olive halo]

That too

[formal haven]

Yeah but against this team you can afford to lower attack honestly

This might be a bit of a cook, but you can consider Ebelt Weaville here to punch holes for Kartana/Quag/Pon to clean

[brave ruin]

ill look into that

rn im thinking to js play sash js to guarantee a kill b i think i can take risks here

[olive halo]

If you need help understanding how speed boosting kart works let us know, you need to do some weird stuff (negative attack nature and decrease IVs to 18)

[brave ruin]

alr

[olive halo]

But I would probably bring... weav, quaq, slowbro, kart, and maybe serp? Idk you have a lot of physical offense which is good into a blissey but picking up another special attacker would help this team. But as is, it's pretty good. Just keep clobbering corv till it goes down and you should win this game

[brave ruin]

kk bet

ty

[brave ruin]

so i got fried

cuz they had the most cringe movepool ever

d1 gimmicks

thank yall for the help regardless

[jade solar]

need some help for the 4th week of my paldex MU. gotta hit the road running before the inevitable week 5 slugfest that is going to be against literally the best draft in the division.

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jade solar]

https://pokepast.es/a4c3c9c5bf099d95

the team i have so far

honestly a good MU for me outside of Eleki which i can easily play around with spdef treads, if he's tera water well that's another story

+1 252+ Atk Dragapult Phantom Force vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tinkaton: 285-336 (76.2 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

just need some chip on tink and this pult set just wins

@olive halo @rancid kestrel

[rancid kestrel]

• Yeah, like you said, Tera Eleki is kinda them - I could see Water, but if they go that route then Dragapult resists both stabs. But you do have to be careful about non-Ice Teras, even if Ice is the "default" logical one into a team that has Pult and Zapdos. Maybe if they talk themselves into Glalie being the Regieleki answer? But like. It's just not.
• I don't like their speed tiers much at all. Ignore Regieleki, it's not really a speed tier thing outside of like, Scarf math, but 125-110*2-94? And the 94 can't really invest in Speed usually? That doesn't feel like the best place to be in. That said, Jolteon isn't super real either into this matchup - you can do a similar Regieleki-lite with it, but you probably just bounce off Tinkaton. I guess at least they have some priority options in SWing and HSamu? But like, what is their response to a Booster Speed Iron Moth? Get in without rocks being up and Regieleki can't OHKO you bar Explosion (though you can't OHKO back...). Is their answer going to be, like, scarf Darkrai?
• Speaking of Rocks... what is their hazard plays here? Rocks on Tink, CEdge on Hamu... That's it. Defog on Lati, Spin on Regi, that's it. That's good in like, OU I guess, but it's just not good enough in Draft - both Tink and Hamu are probably easy brings weekly for your opp, and neither are burdened with hazard setting, but like, Tink's gonna wanna run other things sometimes... But your weakness to Rock here makes it motivating. And then that removal. Regi doesn't have other moves, sure, but Latias really doesn't want to be doing Defog every game.
• Your setting isn't a ton better - I like your ability to set Rocks most games, but the other hazards are non-existant for you. Your removal is good, I'd say that Zapdos likes running Defog more than Latias and Treads can put up with running Spin nearly as often as Regi is going to end up doing.

• They don't have a consistent dragon resist. You've noticed this with your Tinkaton, it doesn't have recovery and gets 2HKO'd. You do have to navigate around Regieleki or like, a scarf Darkrai, since it can just outspeed and KO you, but that's manageable.
• I also see a lack of sustainable Fairy resists, Glowbro exists but other than that it does a number into a lot of things. Not that Prim's gonna be doing a whole ton of damage inherently, but.
• I'd be worried a bit about Ursa here. Your Ground resistances are limited, and Mesprit is not exactly the tankiest of 'mons.
• Your paste isn't complete yet here, obviously, but like, gut instinct it feels fine? I'm not convinced that Pult will get all that it wants, sub+dd, but Herb is a cool tech for sure. What are the calcs that Prim gives you with AVest? It's probably worth it against Darkrai, I'm guessing?

[jade solar]

• Yeah, I've got a decent matchup into Regieleki, just have to chip at it slowly or find a good opening to remove it.
• Scarf Darkrai is plausible to hunt down Dragapult or even TB Fairy but i was deciding on a couple Moth sets, but best is probably Booster Speed yeah.
• I think Lati lost Defog this gen, their removal is basically only Eleki at this point lol. But IMO they have good enough hazard game.
• That is very unfortunately true lmao, my best is SR and I got Glalie just to cover up on face value for spikes, but I do have TSpikes on Moth tho.
• That's what this aggresive Pult set is for, once Tinkaton is chipped and hopefully Ursalune down/chipped, I can easily sweep through at +1.
• Well AV Prim puts in a lot of work here, just have to play it properly against stuff it can't do well against, they might even bring AV Defensive Tera Slither.
• That is a big concern yeah, i'll have to play my best around it most definitely.
• Will have to fill out those spots, just seeing what sets I can play on them.

[jade solar]

https://pokepast.es/156876148f0eaa64

Updated paste

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rancid kestrel]

Any nitpicks I would have with this paste are probably just preference or me not being particularly good at the game.

[olive halo]

Oh woah I do not like this dragapult, especially into 2 normal types. Oh damn there really is no other physical ghost moves. Surely mixed is better no?

[jade solar]

well power herb is mainly into tink lol

[jade solar]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9draft-2387240168-3n97iqhy7g0lisgai89f8uacwiahm1bpw

[olive halo]

It didn’t even kill and they could have switched out…good win though!

[jade solar]

it's just a mock lol

the main game's on saturday

i just wanted to show that the pult set works fine

[cerulean aspen]

National Dex Doubles (6v6)

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean aspen]

unfort lost against Spect Meow Lando-T (absolutely disgusting mu) but this is doubles so it should be easier
record is 3-2 so far

probably one of the worst Urshifu-RS mu's I've ever seen, Talonflame + Tsareena + Koko / ARaichu is super bad
basically forced to bring Thwackey to overwrite terrain + resist Koko / Palafin
Diancie looks super solid here but ofc Palafin

[spice peak]

is it not free tera

as long as crown is gone diancie looks very threatening here

[cerulean aspen]

it's no tera

[spice peak]

if u can tera grass it

Oh

[cerulean aspen]

which is super sadge

[spice peak]

I think it still looks good

[cerulean aspen]

otherwise Urshifu still looks super good here with Tera Electric but sadly not

yeah Diancie is still good here

[spice peak]

palafin is super dogshit in this mu

u have a palafin mega latias thwackey

[cerulean aspen]

Diamond Storm Body Press Play Rough Trick Room probably

[spice peak]

urshifurapid*

idk why I said palafin

I'd prob just do tect

over prough

[cerulean aspen]

how do I hit MGallade then

[spice peak]

it's not gonna do anything to u

dstorm + body press 2x kills

[cerulean aspen]

eeh yeah true ig
what from top 6 do I drop here
Metagross?

[spice peak]

if it procs

I'd probably drop torn unironically

or Metagross yea

[cerulean aspen]

mm yeah torn doesn't look great here tbh
but meta also gets stuffed by Ting

[spice peak]

It also checks crown and tsareena somewhat but yea

maybe u can id bpress stuff

[cerulean aspen]

idt I'm worried about tsar when I have incin
either AV (check crown) or chople / shuca incin here?

[spice peak]

true

[cerulean aspen]

wouldn't this just be doing the same thing as Diancie tho

[spice peak]

it would but I don't see why it'd be bad

their team have trouble beating that

[cerulean aspen]

it could very easily be specs / lo koko here I don't have many defensive checks to tbolt (my ground is a stunfisk)

and gleam probs chunks thwackey enoug

hmm

[spice peak]

u could be av Metagross instead

I think mega latias will be ur best mon in this matchup though

[random geyser]

why is this a goated CB thwackey mu

[cerulean aspen]

is it when they have a Talonflame and Crown?

[random geyser]

yeah you just believe harder

talonflame does kinda shlonk your shit sideways sadly

[cerulean aspen]

what does this even mean 😭 (it shits me yeah)

[marsh hatch]

https://pokepast.es/49d66d4e18a9a886 This is my rough draft

Any suggestions for tera type on arch/ should I bring palafin?

I'm clicking flip turn unless I see a KO

[rancid kestrel]

• I don't know why your Politoed has Rain Dance and Water Absorb. What?
• What is Throat Chop for on Palafin? Why is it AVest?
• Why is your Arch running EQ?
• What's your answer to Zera here? It looks like it walks all over your team. Not even Intimidate on your Hitmontop?

[marsh hatch]

-Politoed is the answer for volcanion and manaphy as well as being able to tank special hits
-Throat chop is for Iron Crown (I gave it vest such to tank hits better)
-Palafin could maybe be mystic water or wacan berry
-Arch is running EQ because it deals more damage to assualt vest iron crown(dark pulse is 10% better on non vest)
-I was planning for Archaludon to switch into Zeraora or just kill it with Kartana

Instead of Palafin,I'm thinking of maybe Killowattrel with Tera Ice/Fairy

[rancid kestrel]

Right, but Politoed doesn't really take anything from those mons anyway... Are you okay with never having rain? Politoed doesn't get many free turns, the reason it works is because it sets rain automatically.

I definitely question dropping one of your best Pokemon, but if that's what you want your approach to be, it's your team and your battle to play.

I think that "oh ill just ko it with arch or kart" is wildly disrespectful to one of the scariest 'mons on their team. Adamant Zera CC does between 39.8 to 47.5 to a +1 Def Archaludon and 79.5-94.2 to Kartana - these 'mons are not reliable answers to Zeraora.

I'm not able to do the math off hand, but I'm pretty sure even with a little bit of chip, CC into +1 Def CC is unfavorable.

[marsh hatch]

Fair point with zeraora
Killowattrel was my 7th pick and it checks it pretty good when tera'd

And Killowattrel can do Palafin's job similarity
The big problems are gliscor and diancie

[rancid kestrel]

I really don't see Gliscor as big of a problem for you as I do Zera and MDia, but you may have different perspectives on it. That's fine - I'm just giving my thoughts on the paste. Stuff like WA RD Politoed or Modest Earthquake Arch may work for you, and that's great, but I don't think these are the most effective approaches forward for a matchup as a general statement.

[lofty wigeon]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2388002609

uhhh they did not go for rain. I won, i'm not sure if i outplayed them or if they threw was a very very odd match

https://pokepast.es/70b6bc3d686aabd9

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[olive halo]

Congrats on the win!

[lofty sparrow]

https://pokepast.es/2fff9506253c114f
not sure abt the cyclizar moveset atm tbh
garchomp evs survive +2 jolly quaquaval ice spinner, gholdengo outspeeds +spe hoopa-u, conkeldurr outspeeds no invest orthworm, otherwise pretty unoptimized

oops hatt should be shadow ball > mystical fire

[solemn warren]

Back at it again huh

Chomp will definitely play well here as it's good against Lycanroc, Metagross, Orthworm and Toxapex

Gholdengo can deal with the 3 potential Steel weak pokes

Other than slamming the Hoopa with a U-turn I don't really know how to deal with it

Oh yeah, Espathra
While it can't Terastallize it can still do what it did to OU if you come unprepared, so make sure your Kingambit is locked and loaded

[lofty sparrow]

well my plan rn is just to wall it with hatt

[jade solar]

Playoffs game for this league. Rematch of week 4 game of this league.
Last meeting: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2361694926-853lln9kvlsjsx771tpdwdoogf4wuawpw
Team (of last meeting): https://pokepast.es/8a87fa9c09f0dd90

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jade solar]

New Team: https://pokepast.es/3fb7203a9ee45f00

not much changes just a lil change on gren for weav and a more aggressive aegi set

dk if i wanna change the chomp set rt not

@rancid kestrel @olive halo

[jade solar]

(got a bye last week in the initial round)

[formal haven]

Damn Vague be grindin

[olive halo]

I’m kinda busy today tomorrow but if this is a rematch, make sure you rebuild your team from the ground up, even if you won. Don’t bring the same sets/ideas (obv chomp is going to have eq still but you get the idea) and focus on strengthening your team. Since you played you should be more familiar with how they operate and pilot a team and that also adds a new dimension to the game. Be careful and stay focused

[formal haven]

I think you'd get more value out of proteon Gren here over battlebond. Ebelt proteon hits uhm, a whole lot harder here and you want the important breakpoints. (For example getting the 2hko on Spdef Fini and Wo-Chien)

[jade solar]

i mean expert belt tera poison anyways

rips the shred out of fini

and gets me set

i might get more value out of a pivoty pon set maybe?

252 SpA Expert Belt Tera Poison Greninja Sludge Wave (95 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Fini: 190-226 (55.2 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

[jade solar]

yeah wo chien is kind of a pain here lol

suprisingly eats a lot of stuff

also scared of weavile since it jumps me when i'm not bb boosted

[jade solar]

i'm 8-1 +23 and top of the standings in a diff league so ye lol

we do be hustlin

[rancid kestrel]

• I don't like their speed situation. Sure, they have some good scarfers in Shifu, Fini, and Latios, and Unburden Slurpuff sure is a thing technically, but like, 125-110*2-97? If I had to guess, it'd be scarf Shifu, it matches better into both Lop and Gren, but I dunno. It's not great speed tiers normally, and your tiers are pretty good - Horoark isn't even like, well positioned to take advantage of 110, since like, its whole shtick is that it pretends to be someone else. How's it putting out speed pressure disguised as a MVenu?
• On that thought, what even can it disguise as? It can't replicate Fini's terrain or Wo-Chien's Ruin, is it running boots to better pretend to be Weavile or Moltres? I guess it could, but it's giving up a lot of damage/momentum giving up an item like that. Boots-less Weavile? I could see it. But it kinda has to replicate Latios which IG helps w/ the speed stuff, or Shifu/MVenu which means it isnt outputting traditional speed pressure. But I guess that's a [H/Z]oroark for ya. Shame it gets bopped by Scrappy so it can't even play immunities much in this game.
• They have... zero hazards? Like, it's webs on Slurpuff, but not a single rocker or spiker? And then their hazard removal is exclusively Defog, counterintuitive to if they ever want to set Webs (which would be decent into you)? That's a choice, I guess. Your hazard removal is shockingly bad, but if you can get up TSpikes or something, they don't have a grounded poison to remove it. If you can hazard stack them, or even pressure in the hazards, it becomes way harder for them to justify bringing Webs, because like, idk you have Chomp Gren Oger - three mons that can realistically set 2+ hazard layers each.

• I see why you were looking at Tera Poison on Gren, that's an alarming lack of responses. I'd also maybe consider looking at Flying, maybe on Zapdos as coverage, since they have literally no resistances. You don't really have an avenue to take advantage of a Fairy weakness of theirs either, Fez exists but isn't exactly a damage dealer.
• I'd be careful about a Latios or Horoark sweepw, you don't have a ton of good responses to Dragon or Ghost. Fez and Lop are good answers, yes, but they're kinda your only ones, and if you let Lop go down on a bad turn you lose a ton of firepower, and Lati can tech for Fez with Luster Purge.
• Like Happygate recommended, start from scratch here. You may find yourself walking similar roads, especially with certain 'mons that are pretty linear, like MLop, but you will be on the backfoot if you show up with a near-identical team and your opponent brings new stuff entirely.
• I think that not bringing any hazards here is super odd to me. They have removal, yes, but are you gonna wanna be in the position where 5/6 of your mons are at -1 Speed because your opp gambled on Webs Slurpuff and you can't pressure them to click Defog ever? Why is your Zapdos boots? They can't set SR, they don't even have Court Change or Magic Bounce to make you do it for them?
• I'm not super convinced benching Fez is the play here, is Zap alone going to be able to handle everything defensively that it needs to?

[jade solar]

• Funny speed tiers for sure, i think that's where i can catch em.
• Horoark is easy to play around just have to watch out carefully for any signs that it may be one
• Their main bargaining point is Webs only lol, and my removal even worse for that matter, and I think the best i can do on Hazards might be Rocks since i don't wanna stack and then lose everything on a defog turn.
• The problem is who do i replace for Fez, almost everything on my team plays a part in this MU and i can't justify replacing one for another mon.
• Yup Scarf Lati is a definite threat into me.
• Welp i am planning to make some radical changes maybe a Hstack Chom or a Chain Chomp with rocks?
• Hazards again maybe on Chomp?
• The Question is, who for Fez?

[rancid kestrel]

If you feel all six provide something you can't lose, then by all means, I'm definitely not the player here. It's just that I'm worried that the defensive core might be a touch too spread thin. Some considerations: What's Aegi and OgerH providing you? Those are probably the two that I'd not put into my builder until the last slots (if you've seen me go slot by slot in other messages that's what I mean) - last in first out, what are they providing in your mind that is more beneficial than a defensive core more than just Zapdos? Obv the alternative is like, a more defensive Aegi or Chomp, but that'd be my alternative strategy.

I'd think the 100%-lock-in 'mons for you would be Lop Gren Chomp, (which I'd prob run a more defensive hazards-focused Chomp - you don't ever have to click Spikes if you don't see Webs! but that's besides the point) so there's a bit of like, three slots left for Zap, Oger, Fez, Aegi. - Zap seems like the next auto-shoo-in, Flying damage and Defog, so two slots for those three. What will each of them bring to the table, and will they be needed?

Do you really need another all-out sweeper 'mon in Oger when you already have Lop Gren, potentially Chomp? Is Aegi really the pick into Weav, Horo, and Ursh-Single? Is it going to be able to do what it needs to do? Or is it going to give your opponent turns to set up Weav SD or Horo NP as you're forced out?

That would be a bit of my mental approach to figuring out your last slots. Maybe I'm off base and you don't really need additional defensive backbone and you can just out-offense them. But this would just be my train of thought as to how to approach picking slots.

[jade solar]

So what according to you is the best six

maybe Fezan over Pon?

i kinda need aegi's MU into lati

[rancid kestrel]

I couldn't say best six - I think that if I were in your shoes, my first build would include Fezan over Oger, and the Chomp would have Rocks. Whether that would last eternally I don't know, but that would be my initial inclination.

[jade solar]

what do i play on fezan

spdef lefties?

helmet maybe?

[rancid kestrel]

Helmet doesn't make a ton of sense to me instinctually when their physical mons are Single-Strike and Weavile. I could see it working, but I suspect it'd need mocks to really test it.

[jade solar]

i mean

punishing those mons

with helmet chip

gives gren more freedom and range

and a rogue flip on fez by fini along with rocks

gets gren nicely setup with tera poison sludge wave

[rancid kestrel]

Sure, but it's not like Weav is forced to TAxel, and Shifu isn't RStrike so you get one chip in. It's definitely usable but also I suspect you're gonna want it to be answering specially defensive mons more, given Zap is physdef (hey, helmet on zap isn't a bad idea, they don't have hazards!), where Helmet may not be showing up often enough, and chip healing Lefties can help even on Roost turns

[jade solar]

so lefties?

[rancid kestrel]

I think that is what would be on my first draft for consideration, yeah.

[lofty sparrow]

hi af whenever u are free can u look at this too

[rancid kestrel]

Oh, sorry, I thought that was a doubles format for some reason, I can do it soon, sure.

[jade solar]

https://pokepast.es/19df8a1c06cace1a

something like this?

[rancid kestrel]

What's Upper Hand for on Gren? I know that isn't at all what I was talking about but I've only just noticed it.

This paste feels better to me, but remember, that's to me. If it feels worse for you, I can't understate how important it is that the person actually playing the game feels good with what they're loading. I could be given the state of the art SV OU Stall team paste by the greatest stall player of the modern era, and I'd fall flat at being able to properly pilot it. In the end, you're the one doing the mocks and playing the match, and you gotta be confident in your own paste whatever it is and able to load up the match and say, "i can win this because I have faith in my team"

[jade solar]

Ice Shard Weav and Sucker Punch SHifu in a pinch

esp when i'm super low and tera'd

weav expects an easy shard

but upper hand denies that

[rancid kestrel]

Sure, makes sense

[jade solar]

alr ty so much for the help man!

[jade solar]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2388541393-hyibte3ys9rekb5dpv4wtigl67yesnspw

won the game!

was rough but gren cleaned it up in the end

[rancid kestrel]

• Your opponent has, to my eyes, an odd team. The bottom like, half of their team, reads to me as them wanting to bring stall 'mons/slow paced teams/defensive structures. I suppose their offensive tools being HoopaU, Weavile, and like, Espathra/Quaq/Lycan sorta are not the worst means of doing damage, but most everything else feels like it's geared towards these supe defensive structures.
• I'm not convinced their lineup is super great speed-wise. Weavile's 125 good, sure, and Lycan's 110 okay but isn't really a speed demon threat. Then it's Cryogonal at 105? Shrug. Espathra 105 which its whole gimmick is that it runs out of control, that's not a speed threat, that's something you kinda disregard the speed of. Toedscruel 100 doesn't hit hard enough to matter and has MycMight to further mess with it. And now we're already at the 80s, and even then, you have the Aqua Step mon and the mon that desperately wants a choice scarf.
• Your speeds aren't too much better, 123-121-102-100-84 has some rough jumps, but at least all of these 'mons can be reasonably dangerous offensively, depending how you view Cyc and Zap I guess. But like, it's not like a Cryogonal/Toedscruel situation where it's defensive 'mons that struggle to run offensive sets/speed EVs.
• They have good hazard options, though obviously not all of them are coming. Spoiler alert, I'm real bad at figuring out defensive angle draft stuff, so I'm not gonna be making good predictions in what they'll bring, but they have good options. Their removal options are less ideal, but all can reasonably run Spin.

• Your hazard options are less great, really only Pert I'd feel comfortable running Rocks on regularly, but Pert struggles to come regularly in Gen9, power creep hasn't been kind to it. Meow and Chomp can set hazards, sure, but Gambit can't really. But like, how often are you gonna be happy dedicating slots on your two main progress makers to doing hazards? (I am a Hazards Chomp hater, take all this with a grain of salt)
• Your removal is way worse than theirs. Defog Conk is fake, so it's really just Spin on Cyc, which is like, fine/serviceable/bordering on good especially in a limited Paldea Dex context, but it's definitely not as good as the multiple acceptable options your opponent has.
• In the end, your opponents options to win the game involve: Weavile, Espathra, Quaquaval, and HoopaU. Metagross sorta, but not quite so much. This all assumes that Shed Tail is banned, btw. Lycan can help, but it's not likely to be the one able to solo close, if that makes sense? If I'm your opponent, I see Weavile as the best option into you - Gambit blanks Espa because it isn't Tera, HoopaU is okay and will do work onto you but folds to a scarf Meow or even a scarf Cyc uturn or some nonsense, or can be played around since it really wants Scarf here I'd think? Quaquaval is alright, but into Swamp/Meow/Gambit/Ghold it seems likely to me that it will not be able to output enough damage before it gets got. It's a sweeper, yes, but it takes time to get going. 120/85 isn't enough for a single Aqua Step Moxie to really get it going, I feel like.

• Weavile on the other hand feels like it matches super well into basically all of your key mons barring Pert, and even that can't endlessly stop it. Conk is a concern, sure, but it's their best option I think overall.
• I do think that Weavile, Lycan, and Scarf HoopaU come. I think that of these, you could probably drop Lycan, relying on Weav and Hoop to be the offensive tools? I'd probably think that of the spinners, I'd bring Quaq, in part bc it's the Tera Captain and could help them match up into something threatening of yours - I could see Steel being a meaningfully useful Tera into your dragons, Meow, etc.
• Someone's gotta set rocks, if it isn't Lycan I'd think it'd be Metagross? Could alternatively be Orthworm, but I'm less convinced of that.
• I would think either Sylv or Blissey would come, one of the two for healing/special defense - I'd lean Blissey, given you have a Dengo. Pex would be my pick for the last, I'd think. I'm unsure.
• Your opponent has bonkers weaknesses to Fighting, Fairy, and Electric - frankly, they have a lot of worrying resistance calculations, but I'd be most worried about those options into you. Is Conkuldurr really the choice? I'd sooner put Low Kick on Meow, and then put Zapdos in where Conk is. I'd think, at least. Giving up any option to Elec spam into them given their only grounded is Toeds, feels maybe a missed opprtunity but I can see the purpose/value of everything listed.
• Are you sure you want to run no scarfer? I see value in scarf on Dengo (and maybe Cyc if you entertain my existential horror of Scarf HoopaU) or Chomp, though between the three I'd think that Dengo would be the one that makess the most sense to me.

[lofty sparrow]

what should the cyclizar moveset be?

i'm not sure about scarf bc im making ghold scarf rn

also i made meowscarada low kick > taxel

i feel like every moveset i try to run is super sylveon bait

[rancid kestrel]

I wouldn't change the Cyc much if you aren't scarfing it, but Scarf Cyc outspeeds Scarf Hoopa and OHKOs uninvested w/ UTurn, whereas Dengo MIR does 62 max to 0/8, hence the thought - it definitely can work for sure to scarf Dengo, you just have to have properly chipped Hoopa first before it can be revenged, and given it's Hoopa, that isn't super easy.

[lofty sparrow]

is mir ghold really the best click into hoopa?

i feel like dazzling gleam would do more

[rancid kestrel]

252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 159-187 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 142-168 (47.1 - 55.8%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO

[lofty sparrow]

ic

oh and would you change the hatt for anything here? i feel like something like gambit would be better in the slot idk

it can also potentially cheese out weavile with chople

[rancid kestrel]

Scarf Cyc is probably an overcook, but it wrecks Hoopa - 0 Atk Cyclizar U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 292-348 (97 - 115.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Again, this is definitely a me thing overcooking/being mortally terrified of scarf HoopaU, but.

Uh, Hatt is probably fine, there may be better options (like Gambit like you said) but it's not like Hatt is a bad choice. It gives you useful stuff like additional hazards gameplay beyond Cyc, but Gambit can def do a lot against so many of their team - SPunch vs HoopaU does 64-76, it can wreck Dusk/Cryo, it fully blanks Espa.

OTOH, Hatt can take most anything Hoopa U would use, Nuzzle it, and then all of the sudden you're much more secure against it. It also helps vs Weavile and can be a pest against whatever their defensive mons are.

I think if I was in your shoes, I probably bite the bullet and bring Hatt, but I think [pick 2 of 4: hatt, conk, zap, gambit] is going to come down to what you expect them to bring and what you need out of a team after your first 4 mons.

I don't think there's like, an incorrect 2 of those 4 to bring, prior to team preview. Maybe there are incorrect sets in conjunction with others, but I think that which of those 4 you bring will depend on what you expect out of your opponent. I'm personally bringing Zap Hatt, I think, but I think depending on your POV (remember, I'm bad at defensive rosters in Draft, playing and predicting!) your answer may be something else.

[lofty sparrow]

alright, i think im gonna lock in this https://pokepast.es/bd5a3e9d13e8b73a unless if theres something wrong with the movesets here

[rancid kestrel]

I don't have the time right now to check the speed EV stuff, but other than Cyc's EVs nothing sticks out a capital P problem? Like I see the value in 252+ on Meow on the chance that they Ada Weav, but at glance I can't figure out what the Cyc speed EVs are for.

Are the Chomp EVs good for you? Two special moves and you dont invest in it at all? IG EQ is the usual click into most things, but just seems a bit odd to me and something worth taking a second glance and reconfirming for yourself it's what you want.

[lofty sparrow]

cyclizar is unoptimized atm

i'll fix it later

the chomp evs are fine for me, eq is the main click and the coverage does enough to the things i wanna click it i to

although i would say dragon claw is probably better here tbh

[rancid kestrel]

If you're good with Chomp then it's good, was just worth that second thought, yknow? And yeah, do fix up the Cyc EVs before you go into the game. Otherwise, I don't see anything that I'd call fundamental missteps personally, just rather personal preference stuff I'd think.

[jade solar]

@olive halo @rancid kestrel https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9draft-2389004968-khlc4cl0fgyaikwc9je27tsfy88nch7pw?p2

very comfortable win

band shifu ripped like crazy and suprisingly av prim got 4 kills lmfao

welp have the scare fest of an MU next week

[rancid kestrel]

Good stuff! Well done.

[jade solar]

ty!

[jade solar]

Well this is that train wreck of a MU i was talking about. 2-2 0 rn, we are so back lmao. Not sure how on earth do i get past this, and this is a crucial game for my POs scenario. Need some advice for this nightmare of a matchup

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[spice peak]

i dont think that's a particularly impossible matchup

dragapult looks really good here w/ support set imo

[jade solar]

yeah

no matchup is impossible yeah but this is especially tough lmao

[jade solar]

yeah that is one way to keep his best stuff down

but also worried about tera gren

one random BB pop sets me back a long way

[spice peak]

im expecting him to bring top 5 + comfey

i think gren doesn't look that impossible

[jade solar]

how so?

[spice peak]

i think you can prob consider like very sdef oriented zapdos to check it

[jade solar]

@rancid kestrel@olive halo

https://pokepast.es/c4893801c65dc40a

debating last slot for shifu or jolt'

[cerulean aspen]

ah yes the Chandy mu
actually doesn't tspikes put in crazy work here?
no grounded poison + removal is Scizor (does not like moth)

[rancid kestrel]

• So, your opponent has a fascinating team, in the sense that it almost doesn't feel like Draft and feels more like someone's favorite mons listed. I'm going to be frank, I'm not sure what NDW does, presumably some form of boosting set? At a glance I could also see TR (maybe not on their team) or something utility. Zama is also a big deal, but it's also a bit single-intentioned, in the sense that you can probably reasonably guess the contours of their set even if you miss whether it's AoA, IDBP, Rest+3, or whatever.
• I like your speeds here more than theirs. 122-100 seems wack to me, especially when 100 is usually gonna be playing priority anyway. You have the fastest 'mon on the field, and short of Gren, I don't see a particularly motivating Scarfer for them. Gouging, maybe? Gren feels like a distant second. Meanwhile, you have two mons capable of Booster'ing their speed, the fastest 'mon on the field, and I guess like, your Good Mons (read: Pult, Irons, Shifu) pound for pound outspeed their Good Mons (read: Zama/Gren, Gouging, NDW). Obviously this is a tough matchup. I don't want the opening to be like, ah you got the speed stuff, this'll be ez.
• Their hazards are not great. Is Gren really setting hazards? Moreso, is Ting Lu coming "just" to set hazards? Is it, god forbid, NDW? Who's removing here? Is Scizor coming "just" to defog? Once a hazard goes up, it's staying up, I'd think. And you've got some nice hazards you can put up. I'm not seeing a grounded Poison and a whole lotta lack of non-grounded 'mons. I'm not saying TSpikes are the way to go, NDW surely will have Boots, but it's an option to consider. At least they have an exploitable weakness in their overlooking of hazards in the draft.
• If I'm your opponent, I never once consider benching Zama, Gren, or NDW. These are my wincons, and even in a tough MU, they're head and shoulders above the rest in potency and ability - the question is always, what else is coming.

• I think that Gouging is good here. It has a nice defense stat to help against Shifu, and it matches up well into Pult, potentially outspeeding it with Booster Speed.
• I imagine Ting Lu comes, if only to not force Gren to set hazards. It's also good into a number of your mons, as few things can KO it from full (CB Shifu is one of those things, to be clear...).
• The final slot. I see the value of Comfey here, like trace mentioned, but leaving Defog at the door feels worrying to me, so I think I'd be inclined to pick Scizor personally. I think either work.
• I think that if they were likely to drop anything, it'd actually be Ting-Lu, and just rely on Gren to set hazards? But that does feel like an abdication of power to do so, somewhat. I really do not see a world where Dewgong comes, that seems like a mascot pick. I could maybe see EVire coming if they predict Zap/Jolt electric spam, but even if they do, TingLu's probably more effective generally than that over the course of the battle. Oh yay, +1 Speed bc I switched into Volt Switch. Now I will get Treads switch into me and proceed to do nothing of value.
• I think that the mons you have picked are fine. I think personally I bring Shifu, it strikes me as just generally stronger than Jolt, and it running Scarf makes more sense than Jolt to me.
• I think SpD Zap makes sense, I'm less sold on utility Pult but I also think Wisp goes real hard on Zama/NDW. Treads can unironically do a lot of damage, and I really do think there's value in TSpikes on IMoth potentially. I dunno. Prim is I suppose your answer to Zama? Best check Heavy Slam calcs to avoid unwanted surprises.

[jade solar]

yup it's finally here now, trueee, genius and scizor doesn't have defog this gen iirc, so we soo cookin toniight

oh nvm

still keeps defog yeah

just have to capitalise on that

[jade solar]

https://pokepast.es/9ecb991e4cfeb04a

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jade solar]

Team I cooked up

thoughts?

[rancid kestrel]

Is Flamethrower better than Fiery Dance? I guess 10 BP, but I think gut instinct I'd rather have FD's secondary effect over FT's.

[lofty sparrow]

is volt switch worth it on zapdos here? they have an entire ting-lu

[jade solar]

i mean it gives good damage on gren while also allowing me to pivot

and also gives me the opportunity to stright up kill it at a certain range

[jade solar]

alright

[lofty sparrow]

does u-turn not do enough?

also i feel like gren is just going to smack you with ice beam anyways

[jade solar]

i live one and maybe kill it back

0 SpA Zapdos Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Greninja: 240-284 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 237-281 (61.8 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

after life orb chip it kinda just drops

0- Atk 0 IVs Zapdos U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 100-118 (35 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 169-200 (44.1 - 52.2%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO

i technically almost eat it

[lofty sparrow]

protean?

[jade solar]

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 252-299 (65.7 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

live it

252 SpA Choice Specs Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 288-342 (75.1 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[lofty wigeon]

hmm do i put our match up in here would be quite comical

[jade solar]

lmao

be my guest

[jade solar]

@rancid kestrel @olive halo https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9draft-2390186153-kbsxvolh2rlvnn3w6t71dhfjvb2l3s7pw

guess who got folded by gren thanks to a zapdos missing 2 hurricanes

god i love this game

[rancid kestrel]

Rough, it happens sometimes. Sorry, friend.

[jade solar]

ty man

[pine cargo]

Gen 9 NatDex draft (Teraless)

Just finished drafting, wanna know if I should make any adjustments during grace period or if this suffices

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uKIqngm5JraF1BI9kW5g2m4CBMyvMsiXnFqqk73PJ2M/edit?usp=sharing

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pine cargo]

Points for each of my mons

[rancid kestrel]

• I'm worried how little removal you have. It's just Defog on Heat and Skarm, which Skarm while good doesn't strike me as the most in-depth removal that I'd feel great about. Hazard setting is fine, it's kinda depending on Skarm again (Naclstack is not real, Oger can Spikes I guess, Bliss rarely can find time for Rocks, TSpikes are a different lane) which makes me wonder if Skarm's going to be stuck running a hazards-focused set most of the time. Blissey doesn't really want this out of a defensive partner.
• Your speed tiers are okay, Darkrai at 125 is probably a fine capstone, but I question who here on your lineup will be able to pick up the Scarf into, say, a Tapu Koko, or a Booster Energy paradox, or a Weavile or something. Oger can't, Mienshao is going to be hard to bring to games, Zyg's not strong enough to be particularly threatening with a Scarf.
• Your lack of Ghost resist is vaguely worrying. Nacli is not real, Darkrai isn't particularly bulky, and Blissey having to solo-carry an answer to stuff that can happily carry ghost coverage/stab.
• Is there a reason you didn't draft a Mega at all? Megas aren't necessary, obviously, but in a ND tour without Z or Tera, it does feel like willingly passing on the last Big Power button is maybe missing out.
• Maybe this is me doubting non-Tera Oger, Darkrai, and setup Zyg, but I feel like if I load into this team, my gut instinct reply is "oh they arent really doing damage". I know that they can, and that even folks like Mienshao and Primarina have respectable offensive stats of their preference, but it really does feel like a proper "star" is missed. Maybe that's Darkrai.

At a glance at the draft board, I'm not seeing any 'mons that I'd be pushing you to take. You don't have anything capital m Missing in your draft, your hazard play and speed tiers aren't perfect but are perfectly serviceable. So any changes are like, hm, does it make sense to drop Oger here, can we reasonably patch up that speed tier, for example.

If you are looking to slim down, (warning: we are getting to personal preference speculation territory!) I'd maybe think that Mienshao and Rotom-Heat would be the mons I think I'd struggle to bring to most any game. You'd probably have to replace them with something around base speed 100-105 to not mess that up, but like. That's definitely not a barren speed range in ND. I see Mew available on the board, huge potential swiss army knife 'mon.

Let's say you take that: That leaves you with four points remaining - something like Accelgor can be a fast Spiker, Maushold and Polteageist can force unappreciated prep in opponents, Skuntank is deceptively bulky and has a good defensive profile. If you dump Naclstack to go up to 5, Gligar is a bulky hazard spammer, Brambleghast can bring new removal, HElectrode is a speed demon, Zoroark and Sableye can be prep/preview pests...

In the end it'll be up to you and your thoughts, a Mienshao you want to use is worth way more than a Mew that you never feel comfortable trying to build a set for.

[pine cargo]

Yeah by the time I had a good opportunity to get a mega all of the good ones were taken so I doubled down on picking a non-mega rather going for a subpar one

It’s naclstack not nacli btw

I get the “star” part being an issue, again it was just an unfortunate issue of bad order placement as by the time I had a good chance to get a mon of that nature, all of the good ones were taken

Thanks for your feedback i appreciate it

[solemn warren]

Can you use Zygarde God form or are you stuck to Aura Break

[lofty sparrow]

the doc says pconstruct is banned

[solemn warren]

That sucks

[i couldn't read the doc as drive is kinda broken on my phone]

[pine cargo]

zygarde complete is always banned in nd draft

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[olive halo]

Two ting lus and 2 great tusks? What’s the format how did this happen?

[rigid plaza]

Nat Dex, we had two different groups choosing from 2 pools that were the same. We're just getting higher up after elims with weekly trading. This pool category focused on Ground/Steel Types with some variance. We can't tera and no Z moves

[olive halo]

That would explain why they’re so similar

Your best bet i would say is to run something more offensive and beat them quickly

I’m worried about the match-up into pinsir and buzzwole just destroying your team

[rigid plaza]

Are you available for a dm conversation? Just so I don't pollute the chat with so much

[olive halo]

Banded cc kills everything by buzzwole except ghold but they have a whole ting lu

[olive halo]

Nope sorry. Smogon’s policy is to keep it here

[rigid plaza]

Oh, my bad, I didn't know

[olive halo]

And don’t worry about polluting the chat

[rigid plaza]

So my general disruption here was thinking to go Sunny Day Rotom with a scarfed Eruption Heatran and a Scarfed Glimmora Solar beam to nuke the Great Tusk and Buzzwole/Celesteela/Ferrothorn/Mega Pinsir. The garganacl was a recent addition, so I was considering a covert cloak Gholdengo as a joker of sorts, while I ran hyper defensive Ferrothorn and SpDef TingLu. I am divided between using Ogerpon or Great Tusk, as the former has a much better set up opportunities, but a Scarfed Tusk under the Sun would hit really hard

[rigid plaza]

tyty

I also have Sand synergy with Tyranitar and Excadril, but I don't think they hit as hard

[olive halo]

I don’t know that I love sun. My problem is that it also boosts the fire attacks of their heatran and gives a boost to their tusk

[rigid plaza]

Yeah, it's dicey for sure. The best I thought of was that my own heatran has fire immunity and the scarfed Glimmora OHKO's Great Tusk with a Solarbeam. But I'd be relying on the element of surprise, as that's a set I've never used

[olive halo]

I really like cornerstone in this match-up. I don’t have a calc open, but after an SD boost power whip will chunk a lot and the bugs are scared of ivy cudgel

I also like the idea of running screens on rotom mow, that I think is at least interesting with leaf storm and volt switch

[rigid plaza]

I normally run Horn Leech to try and play it safe, but do you think the power whip is worth the risk since I have to hit big? My normal set is IvyCudgel/SD/Horn Leech with either low kick or Trailblaze

and noted. that's how I've ran rotom in the past, and most safely. EV investment into defenses or into speed?

[olive halo]

Defense mostly

And run some calcs

Power whip does more damage but if it isn’t OHKOing it’s not worth it and you can run horn leech

[rigid plaza]

TY, based on what you see, who would your 6 be against mine?

[olive halo]

If I was your opponent I’d bring ting lu, celesteela, buzzwole, tusk, boulder, and one of either heatran, garg or ferro

Just be really careful about boulder as well

Your only good defensive answer is… ghold but it will be running throat chop

[rigid plaza]

That's why I was thinking trailblaze on Ogerpon or a Scarfed Tusk to ideally end that encounter

[olive halo]

Some sort of SD, throat chop, cc, and zen headbutt

Nah just run colbur berry on ghold

Colbur protects against ting lu as well

[rigid plaza]

That's a great piece of advice, tyvm Just ran Calcs and without SD it doesn't kill

[olive halo]

Yeah then just run horn leech no big deal

Or put yourself in a position behind screens with your sturdy active to SD

[rigid plaza]

Oh, I meant the Gholdengo, I have to run calcs on the Ogerpon rn.

Would you recommend the trailblaze too then? My biggest concern with Ogerpon is the Pinsir running quick attack

[spare relic]

Made the cut for low tier but just wanted advice on what I can improve

https://pokepast.es/a53c1568a5dae8d5

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9draft-2388644325

this is one of the matches I lost so i just wanna know what i could’ve potentially done

[rigid plaza]

Some of your team comp goes the path of trying to 'round' out your pokémon instead of trying to improve on what makes them great.

For example, you invested 252 Def EVs into Blissey when no investment can save it from being terrible physically. You'd have been better off investing into SpDef and HP and avoiding physical match ups like the plague.

Similarly with Chople and Recycle on Bronzong. It's too slow to truly benefit from that kind of play, as you'll likely burn the berry the turn after you recycle it. It basically burns your turn. I'd have gone with screens or even toxic to give it more utility over Recycle.

Blastoise was interesting, but your mistake was bringing it into Rotom, considering it volt switched every turn prior after coming in.

Noivern is a bit of a glass cannon, so you didn't do anything necessarily wrong, but it coming onto an assault vest hatterene was tough. I would have set it up with throat spray + boom burst in addition to more attacking moves. Your team lacked a closer or a sweeper at the end, so Noivern could have filled this role.

Also Golem felt like it was wasted and ultimately walled because it wasn't utilized to the best of its moveset. Galvanize and moves like return or even self destruct would have torn the Hatterene up instead of being walled because you only had the one attack move. And honestly, upping its defense doesn't matter when you consider it's 4x weak to ground and that's an extremely common set.

Fezandipiti suffers from similar to Blissey, investing in defense feels like you're moving away from its utility. Toxic chain is better for you here and you want to avoid physical attackers. Personally, I'd rather go Gunk Shot/Play Rough/U-Turn/Taunt or Roost.

[spare relic]

Ic on some of your points

Honestly bronzong set could have been better, also didn’t realize that gyro ball is based on how slow you are vs your opponent and not how slow you are, and recycle was prob a wasted move slot

I feel like there was merit to id body press Agolem, i did want to break through stuff like Flygon ,Orthworm and Tera dogi and i was originally Tera flying to remove that weakness, but solo body press ended up in me getting walled by hatt and electric (normal) coverage was prob the play here.

One of the biggest struggles in that particular Mu was orthworm, barely anything in my team could immediately break through it.

The toxic orb trick Blissey was also not the best choice considering my opponent had like 3 poison immune Mon

[rigid plaza]

The first half of Golem was fine, I just wouldn't use a rest set. Return could have given you the power to bust through Hatterene and then orthworm would have been weakened to the body press + flying Tera.

And yeah, Incineroar would have been great for this set.

[spare relic]

I wasn’t sure about incineroar with the potential vaporeon

[lofty sparrow]

any tips for this mu? i'll build a team when i wake up tomorrow

[rancid kestrel]

This is not a replay review channel but some small thoughts on the paste you shared:

• Sharp Beak on Noivern doesn't seem right to me. It adds to little to a narrow avenue of damage potential/utility. Is there a reason it wasn't Scarf (for outspeeding opposing Noivern) or Specs/Throat Spray+Boomburst/Life Orb?
• Fez doesn't seem set up to make use of the Payapa. Does SB even kill Hatt once you tank the psychic move? I can't see that as being particularly likely. Additionally, is Bronzong really gonna make use of Colbur often enough to make use of Recycle?
• This Alolem set seems not great to me. Solo BP into a team w/ Dogi, Noiv, and Hatt? I can see the vision, but it seems maybe ill-conceived.
• Unlike the other fella, I actually do like this Blissey lure set - miraculously tanking an Outrage and burning the Flygon is really cool, the only problem is that they don't really have other physical attackers, so beyond the Flygon, all that investment isn't used much.

[rancid kestrel]

• This is like, hard rain. They've super invested into it to an astonishing amount. Two setters (Prankster Grafaiai Rain Dance is the second), with nearly every single 'mon either a traditional abuser, a secondary abuser (think Hurricane spammers, water BP boosters, or "fuck my fire weakness") or... Landorus/Bellibolt.
• The thing is, this isn't ladder, so you can see it coming. And your mons aren't exactly the worst when it comes to playing in the rain - Meow, Zap, Dengo, Pert all appreciate the rain one way or another. While you're going to struggle to outspeed Swift Swim on Barra/Kingdra/Bascu barring Scarf Meow for the latter two, the opposing team doesn't exactly have a lot of traditional speed control otherwise. And like, gods bless them if they can't keep rain up consistently.
• I'm assuming Last Respects and Shed Tail are banned here, because otherwise like, what even league is this allowing that nonsense in what otherwise seems like a pretty average non-8 draft format.
• Their speed is mostly tied to rain, but like, Noivern and LandoI can scarf, Barre is naturally super fast, Treads can Booster, and they have good prio between Rilla and Crawdaunt. But like, all of these 'mons can't come, because I've just listed six Pokemon without a single rain setter. But like, it's not like these are not the worst five 'mons to bring - leave LandoI or Noiv at the door and all of the sudden it's like, what happens outside of rain?
• Your speed in response is a bit weird - Meow and Cyc at, what would normally be a decent "faster than everything else" tier, which falls a touch flatter here against hard rain. But then you dip to 102/100 with Chomp and Zap, then you dip hard to 84 Dengo? I'm not convinced that your slower pace of a team is bulky enough to withstand hits well - PsyFangs Barre is doing 61-72 to Amoonguss, for example, and Liquid's doing 63-74 to 252/252+ Swampert.

• A drawback of hard X, be that weather, TR, BP, whatever, is that it often will necessitate a weaker deployment of other things, and you can see that in their hazards. Excluded Treads, they have SR on Lando and Defog on Noivern, neither of which ever want to run it. Treads is fine setting/removal, but it's basically they only thing they have. Your removal is equally alarming, admittedly, but you also have the potential for setting so much hazards (if you give up a ton of damage potential to do so).
• Their weakness chart is also lacking - they have decent enough responses to Electric in reality, since they have Treads (Zap's Heat Wave bounces off in rain), but like, where is their Dark Resist, or their Dragon Resist, or their Ghost resist? Admittedly, their response to these things are mostly to outspeed and OHKO rather than defensively tank it, but like, if a Scarf Dhengo ever starts spamming off Shadow Balls and Rain isn't already up, what exactly is their response? Just take a bunch of damage? What's their DMeteor switchin from Cyclizar? None of their Grass resists want to eat a TAxel.

• OTOH, Barra runs a train over you. Your water resists get chewed up by CC, and the one that doesn't is Amoonguss - I can easily see Liquid/CC/PsyFangs/AJet wrecking your team if you aren't ready for it. I'm less concerned about Bascu and Kingdra in this way, because while yes your top tier Water Resists remain suspectible to the whole "not having bulk" issue, you can outpace them even in rain with Choice Scarfs on Cyc/Meow, and there isn't really easy ways for those two to get around Amoonguss - DMeteor does 60-70 to 252/252 though. Gotta figure out what Amoonguss is trying to reply to.
• You could, maybe, outside world, set up TR with Hatt, make it difficult for them to take advantage of their speed stuff, but I'd leave that up to you to determine if you feel capable of making TR work. I know that I never have been able to, so it'd not work for me, realistically, but.
• If I'm your opponent, I bring Pelipper, Barra, plus four. I'd think it'd be worth bringing Kingdra and Bascu here, both make rain more worth it and can help soften things up for each other and Barre. From there, I'd think ITreads is mandatory as a Zapdos response and for hazards, but I could see someone disrespecting the hazards game and dropping it. I'm assuming it's coming, though.
• From there, I could see a Scarf Noivern, Grafaiai, LandoI, or Rilla all coming. 1 and 3 provide more damage from a slightly different angle, with 1 specifically being a pain in the speed tiers should the rain maintenance get away from them. 2 provides emergency rain setting, and 4 provides passive healing to their many grounded mons as well as a touch of priority. My gut instinct is that Noivern would come, but none of their Pokemon are like, impossible to bring.

• For you, it'll largely depend on how you choose to reply, but I could see a defensive Zapdos as a Barra response, specially defensive Amoonguss for the Bascu/Kingdra, Meow/Cyc/Dengo with probably two scarves somewhere around them, though a surprise resist berry on Cyc could let it respond to Barre and eliminate it. 252+ always KOes with DMeteor and 160 Def with Chople means you never get OHKO'd by Barra CC?
• Final mon is probably Pert/Gambit/Hatt - the former I don't know the calcs but can probably do some things with the correct investment, the latter as a TR option, and Gambit for Sucker Punch options as priority. Sobble isn't real here, Chomp seems like a real bad choice as Scarf can't even outspeed Bascu under rain, and Coalossal is... I dunno. Sash Steam Engine is maybe real. Except that it's wildly telegraphed, 252+ +6 doesn't even outspeed Barra under rain, and then what are you doing back? Poking them with base 80 SpA Earth Power?

[spare relic]

Hi afairy!

-for the Noivern set, i figured my opponent wasn’t bringing hard noivern on Blissey so wasn’t concerned about the opposite noivern. For throat spray+boomburst i was afraid my opponent could’ve brought Tera ghost to stop that idea so I ditched that strategy. I ended up with sharp beak because I didn’t really want to be locked into one move, so I thought sharp beak might do the job but relying on Hurricane is asking to lose ig.

Bronzong movepool was kinda wasted i agree, I ran out of ideas for bronzong and added gyro without knowing how it actually worked

Solo BP Alolem probably was poor in hindsight, and I should’ve ran extra coverage. I thought if I had recovery in rest I could 1v1 dogi if I ended up forcing a Tera with my other teammates

For Payapa fez I thought if I could 1v1 hatt if I successfully fished for a poison or toxic with toxic chain because I could potentially have the opportunity to get off two sludge bombs.

[rigid plaza]

If that was the plan for the blissey, you could get away with investing no more than 76 EVs vs 252 though. That would have allowed the option while still largely being a competent special tank

[rancid kestrel]

Yeah, the EV efficiency isn't great. But I think the idea is not entirely misplaced, for sure.

[jade solar]

This is a different MU in a reduced natdex format. Highlighted mons are Z captains. https://pokepast.es/880558824fb30d1f What i made so far, tested it out, but seems kinda flimsy againsy hamu and hax, not sure what to do to fix that

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lofty sparrow]

https://pokepast.es/6e5192da82f6193e alright, heres a team i built on advice

gambit outspeeds uninvested unboosted crawdaunt

[solemn warren]

Both Z captains on the team and no Z crystal?

[jade solar]

free Z basically

[solemn warren]

So you can like Z explosion on Metagross

[jade solar]

i can

[rancid kestrel]

What's DGleam hitting? Noivern? Nothing else sticks out to me as something alarming, maybe the lack of hazard setting but you're definitely in a bit of a tricky spot when it comes to what you can bring in the first place. I like Trick on Dengo, I like Sunny Day on Amoonguss, though I wonder if Boots on Zapdos is the most useful item? It probably is given damage rolls and stuff, but it and the Dread Plate on Gambit are probably the two I'm most closely looking at wondering if there's more value that could be found elsehwere.

[lofty sparrow]

dread plate on gambit hits sucker rolls on barraskewda after 2 fallen

[rancid kestrel]

Gotcha, that for sure seems worth.

[lofty sparrow]

my thought process on dgleam on ghold was mostly for crawdaunt

[rancid kestrel]

What does "reduced natdex" mean - is it simply that stuff like Koko or Mega Gallade aren't allowed, or does this also mean mons that do exist but lose moves don't have their lost moves, or what?

[rancid kestrel]

Ah, okay. I'm not super convinced they have a ton of space for Crawdaunt, but I suppose it's possible they'll bench Bascu or Kingdra. I just am not sure that it makes a ton of sense into a team with Zapdos to be relying on exclusively contact damaging moves.

[lofty sparrow]

that's fair

[jade solar]

Reduced natdex is basically like this midpoint between standard ND and LT ND where most very top tier threats are banned so sort of mid tier draft tbh

no tera, Z captains but HP is allowed

[rancid kestrel]

Ok, so the "reduced" doesn't matter post-drafting, it only impacts what mons are available on the board?

[jade solar]

yes

[rancid kestrel]

• You have two good tera captains, 'mons that can make good use of Tera to boost damage (Meta) or leave a worrying defensive typing (Ape). However, they have the Tera Hog in Eleki, with Haxorus kinda bridesmaid-never-the-bride secondary captain. This isn't to say Hax can never tera, but if Eleki is coming, it really does need to be able to Tera. Though, with Fez on your side, I'm not actually convinced Eleki is the greatest pick for them.
• Their speed tiers are not good. Regieleki only interfaces with speed tiers when it comes to scarfers, really, and so is less of a relevance here in that sense. Dropping from there, DugA isn't exactly the most threatening 110, it can do stuff sure but it's not exactly a Lati@s or Ogerpon, yknow? They then follow that up with Speed Boost Espathra at 105, who inherently will be a "don't bother with me in speed" kinda 'mon, then dip to 97/95? Sure, Hax or Hamu can scarf, and Espa isn't powerless at +0, but the range here is a bit alarming.
• Your speed tiers aren't like, fantastic, but they're better in the sense that you have mons with their salt in the 100 110 120 range, yknow? Like, Ape gets outrun here by two mons, and one of them (DugA) it can deal 70 minimum with neutral Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave to 0/0. Oger ties at worst with their second fast mon and Low Kick/Power Whip send it into next Sunday.
• Their slower mons are no joke, though. Silvally can come as any type and has surprisingly strong statline, Skeledirge and Hamu are incredibly powerful role players, Tang+Chansey serve as a solid defensive core. However, they can't bring all of these 'mons, so something is getting left at the bullpen. My guess is Skeledirge, your setup option either seem better doing something else (Oger, Ape) or aren't boosting damage stats really (Drif, Meta). I would also not bring Chansey into Oger Ape Meta.

• Their hazards are kinda carried by Hamu an Regi, unsurprisingly. Silv can Defog and DugA/Chansey can SR, but the most likely hazard gameplay is going to be CEdge spam with Spin from Eleki to keep the advantage, with maybe the occassional SR now and then. You on the other hand have some alright removal between Defog on MPidge/Drif (I'm not convinced either have the space to run it, MPidge maybe?) and Donphan's Spin. Your hazard setting is much nicer, a bunch of SR on 'mons that force switches (and Donhpan), and Spikes on Oger, forcing Eleki to run Spin (not that it had other stuff to run, really).
• If I'm your opponent, I'm building around Hamu, Regi, and Haxorus. Those seem like my strongest 'mons, and I respect the Fez blanking Eleki - I'm doing 46% max with TBolt. Maybe I try some Tera Ground tech for it/Meta/Ape, but maybe this is also a turn for the Tera to be on Haxorus?
• From here, I think I add Silvally and Tangrowth as a defensive core - don't underestimate 95/95 as a defensive statline, especially with a flexible typing. My gut instinct here is that Water is maybe the best into you, if I can avoid the OgerC Power Whip. Poison might also be a good option, but my gut instinct is I'm more scared of Ape Fire-type damage than I am Meta Psychic-type damage.
• From there, Espa's a decent runaway sweeper type mon, Hypnosis from +1 can disrupt a ton of your plans potentially and like, barring Tera Dark or Mightyena, Stored Power can go brr if Metagross desn't have free reign.
• If I'm you, I could maybe see benching MPidge, into most of their mons it seems not great, but I'm not sure about it. I'm going to assume it comes, it seems useful enough in a vacuum.
• OgerC, Ape, Fez are easy additions, they're some of your best 'mons too, and Fez can be a Eleki blank. Just be aware of your physical Ape damage rolls against Tang and resist Silvally sets.

• I'd bring Metagross here, probably. It can be useful as a runaway Espa check, taking not a ton from SPower. Final mon is probably Donphan to provide you hazards/removal.

[jade solar]

well i played the game early and i won lol

comfortably too

[rancid kestrel]

Oh. Grats!

[jade solar]

yeah we planned to play like an hr from now

but he was free so we played early

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2392105781-id7slkhveifsqwkhspey7tdwanx4kr3pw

[open hamlet]

National Dex LC. Rules and tiers are from the Smogon Draft League Example Draft Boards, so notably Non-SV items are banned. Also, Grookey can't have Grassy Glide.

Opponent is the best coach in our league, so I know he'll make the most of his team. The vision for the team is to let sweepers run wild under veil and/or webs support. I feel like that makes the team pretty one-dimensional, though. Anyone open to discussing?

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rancid kestrel]

So, you probably aren't going to geet much any help with LC, since it's so incredibly different from standard Gen9 Draft as to make it very difficult to make comparisons.

• I'd think Holtorb has the advantage over Voltorb when it comes to the 20 Speed 'mons. Even if it's just a couple grass-type moves, you don't resist them.
• Them having Stunky is kinda spooky - I'm not convinced 18Spe Feebas is a meaningful threat, but Stunky surely can do plenty given your top speed threats drop to 17. It also comes with Sucker Punch, meaning most of your setups (Sinis, Woobat, Clamperl at -1) are likely to get chewed alive by it.
• I like your Crawbrawler here once Holtorb is gone, I think? It's slow, a shame it can't boost its speed, but it's hard to see what wants to take a hit from it. Staryu...?
• If I'm your opponent, I simply bring my best 6 - I'd perceive them to be Holtorb, Staryu, Stunky, Mudbray, Chinchou, and Drifloon. Like, maybe Larvesta comes, or if they wanna try some nonsense like Simple Mirror Herb Numel, maybe, but I'd think it'd be their standard.
• For you, I'd think that Voltorb, APix, and... Grookey? Have to come. Yea, Surge is banned, but surely Grookey's still way good. From there, uh, whichever setup sweeper you think can avoid the Stunky SPunch stuff, maybe two of them who knows. Then Crawbrawler and/or HGrowlithe if you have space?

Again, LC's a pretty far call from standard draft, so the advice you're gonna get will be not great, but these are my thoughts at least.

[open hamlet]

I Appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Nat Dex LC Draft is definitely an esoteric ruleset, so I'm glad to have another person's perspective on the matchup.

Stunky's sucker punch has been potent in earlier matches this season. Definitely a major threat, so I agree that it's important to remove that threat for the sake of the sweepers.

I was thinking trapinch could be good to trap and remove Stunky. I'd gladly take a 1 for 1 trade to remove the sucker punch threat.

[jade solar]

Alrighty Week 6 time, in a kind of shabby position at 2-3 -5 need a good win to move into POs contention. Need some advice on how to win this MU.

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[solemn warren]

Oh god he has Kyurem and Palafin

I could see a core of Dragapult, Iron Treads, Urshifu, Zapdos, Iron Moth, and Jolteon as an attempt to blitz past the team

Specs Draco is Specs Draco and the only switch in is bait for Treads

Hell you could even go Primarina instead of Zapdos or Jolteon

https://pokepast.es/b6e6e37ed1adbbcb is definitely something
With Dragapult you could use Substitute instead of Psychic Fangs and Phantom Force instead of Tera Blast Ghost
Sparkling Aria on Primarina is just funny you can use Surf instead

I don't really know how dark Urshifu works so that's a bit of a half assed set

[jade solar]

pult ain't my tera cap lol

[solemn warren]

Oh right

Then yeah p force

[lofty sparrow]

the only switch in is bait for specs hydro pump 👍

[olive halo]

Specs shadow ball and Tera dark urshifu go brrrr

Just run top 6, and use the other 4 to pivot constantly to make sure you’re getting urshifu/dragapult in and you’ll do great

Also after torn teras into a fairy type the team is real weak to ground

And if it doesn’t go fairy then the whole team loses to urshifu

Umbreon cannot be broken by wicked blow, but remember cc still goes through its protects so it’s a sitting duck otherwise

As far as item goes urshifu could honestly run band, scarf, or even black glasses and it’s just curtains it doesn’t matter

[jade solar]

https://pokepast.es/c81ecd48d0917aba

team so far

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jade solar]

too much choice/booster items maybe?

[rancid kestrel]

• Your opponent has two real stars, Tera TornT and Palafin, and everything else is either behind the eight ball of power creep to some extent (Umbreon, Donphan, Kyurem, Terrakion), passive (Donphan, Glowking, Heatran), or Kricketune. Brambleghast is perhaps the main exception, but its defensive stats are not good and 115/90 is middling at best.
• This isn't to say bad about Tera TornT and Palafin, but like, these aren't superstars, you know? Like, this is a format that has Dragapult, apparently, and their second best 'mon is Palafin? Your second best 'mon is Single Strike - this doesn't speak great for them overall.
• Their speed tiers are not something to be thrilled about. 121-108-100 is passable, the problem is that you have a Dragapult and your 110 106 both can just boost their speed for the fun of it if they want. Their fourth fastest Pokemon is slower than your fourth slowest Pokemon, and they don't have a ton of easy speed boost options.

• Sure, Terrak Pala Kyurem can all run Scarf, and none of them strictly speaking are begging to run damage boosting items/setup, but it is a touch predictable if that's their response, yknow? I guess they in theory have webs on Kricketune, but like, you've got Treads, and it's a Kricketune.
• Dragapult go brr. It outspeeds Scarf Heatran, so whatever's faster than it on your opponent's team is going to be a bit telegraphed depending on what they try to switch in to revenge. Shifu also go brr, like Happygate mentioned.
• I like their hazards, but Brambleghast and Donphan kinda both fill the same role, so they cancel each other out a bit. The other setters can do stuff, TSpikes are never bad on a 'mon that can beat the This Tall To Ride bar in Gen9, and Tran/Terrak can carry rocks - the latter shouldn't, though.
• Their removal is more suspect though. Bramble has the "will I wont I" Poltergeist click into Dragapult, and hell it may even be their scarfer! But that's worrying if it is, because it's harder for it to act as removal/setting if so, and if Donphan comes to handle that, not only are you bringing two meh mons, you're telegraphing that Brambleghast isn't there to handle hazards. At which point, what is it there for? Scarfing! Shadow Sneak from 252+ Band does 93 max to Pult, so it's not reliable tech.

• I've been over your hazards before - good Rocks, good Spin, good TSpikes, but super limited in all three. At least Treads is great, yknow?
• If I'm your opponent, TornT and Palafin are non-negotiable. Tera Fairy feels mandatory to blank Shifu and Pult, but then ground weakness does go brr like Happygate mentioned. I'd suspect Terrak would be the Scarfer, and then Brambleghast is the removal.
• Two slots left - I'd think Kyurem is benched, it seems like a detriment into Pult/Shifu to me. I could see Heatran coming, 91/106 Chople can tank CC, and like, it does 60-70 back if it hits the Magma Storm, so it isn't like it can't do anything. It also sets rocks probably.
• I can also see Glowking coming as a response to Dragapult, since TWave super dooms it (as well as Shifu but it shouldnt get that off realistically) and opens it up for Scarf Terrak or a Palafin KO from... Ice Punch, I guess? Banded 252+ Jet Punchis doing max 44% to 0/0 Pult, that's super embarrassing for it. Wave Crash does 75 min, though.
• For you, (haven't clicked paste yet) obviously Pult and Shifu are coming - they're your stars. I'd Scarf Shifu here personally, but thats a me thing for sure, and it's not like it even helps with the predicted Terrak scarf. Though if Terrak doesn't click CC, Shifu still chases it out, and if it does click CC, Pult does... Maybe Terrak scarf isn't the play? Is it Palafin? But then what's Terrak doing, Rock Polish? I'm tangenting.
• Seems obvious that Treads would come, Rocks helps into Torn/Pala/Kyu/Glowking, and you definitely want the opportunity to Spin should Webs or Bramble Spikestack comes. Zapdos and IMoth also seem like picks I'd make, the former is a contact demon into Terrak/Pala while also helping tank hits, and the latter works as a potential sweeper option with Booster Speed outspeeding any Scarfer barring TornT.

• From there, with one slot left, I could see Jolteon as a Tera Captain should Shifu not want it, I could see a defensive Primarina helping with pivoting (though Freeze Dry scares me from Kyu if it comes), I could even see like, a utility Mesprit? What's scarier than one Scarf Urshify or Pult? Two, post-Healing Wish!
• Now with the paste open, I have some concersn about the lack of Zapdos, but I think that's probably a personal preference thing.
• The pivoting here is so strange to me - I'd think that you'd expect your progress makers to be Shifu and Pult, so it's strange to me that those are the two that seem to be wanting to pivot out into Prim and IMoth, which I don't think are quite so progress-maker and yet seem to be these "this far no further die on this hill" set. It's not inherently bad, maybe, but it's not what I'd expect.
• They have hazards you do need to respect here, but you don't have Spin on Treads and haven't included a single Boots anywhere. I'm not sure this is the play.
• My gut instinct is that Specs is the wrong item for Jolteon, but I haven't checked damage calcs (both taking hits from like, Scarf Kyu/Terrak, and dealing out damage).
• Nothing else really sticks out to me in this paste as alarming to me, but if this was a "take the paste, make one change, pass it on" type of thing, I'd probably puty Spin on Treads over... Knock? Probably Knock.

[jade solar]

alright

i'll try to integrate this into my prep and provide an improved one soon

[jade solar]

Well checked the damage output and scarf kyu and scarf terrank always find a way to rout off specs jolt

specs jolt can only get atleast one hit off on kyu before getting 2hko and terrak just one shots no matter what

with cc or eq

[dawn briar]

Hiii i play this matchup for playoffs in a small draft league and wanted some advices on how to handle this mu (as it seems really rough) would i need to go like sash lead shocks ? and play very offensively after that ?

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rancid kestrel]

I will take a look at this tomorrow, tonight if I can :P

[formal haven]

Hey i recognize this draft.

[dawn briar]

No way

[formal haven]

Sneasler might pose an issue, but luckily you have a great answer in Glowking. You have to keep it healthy tho and play it correctly. Physical torn looks absolutely amazing here actually might want to just run tera flying bulk up with blast. Bax also does a lot of work with Zone being their only ice resist.

I'm not against sash Shock to get an early rocks in, the issue I have with that is that Sini just feels akward at best to bring in the matchup, much rather having it stay on the bench, which means no spinblocker

[olive halo]

I really like tera steel torn here. Resists necros and rillabooms stab and is immune to sneaslers dire claw/glowking is a great switch to sneasler already. On top of that, it's good into scream tail and hydregion and ting lu's eq is weakened by their own grassy terrain. On top of that I really think dd bax is just killer here. You should be able to outspeed non unburden sneasler and the combination of ice + eq is unresisted on their team. Heartflame is good, and grassy terrain boosts it's grass types (again) and sinistcha is just great here. Drop prim as it's too slow and water + fairy probably isn't doing that much and cycle can probably just spin on ting for ever and drop dracos on rotom (just be careful of body press ting)

[rancid kestrel]

• Like Happygate and TwentyTwan have said, TornT with the right Tera goes in hard.
• I am not super excited about your opponent's speed tiers here, 120-but-Unburden followed up by 111 Scream Tail, a mon that doesnt exert a ton of offensive pressure, followed by 100 Tenta, again not a ton of offensive pressure? I'm not saying OgerH gets a bunch of free EVs from not needing to invest a ton into its Speed, but I am kinda saying that, yknow?
• Their Scarf/speed control is what, Scarf Hydrei? Could also see Trick Scarf Rotom, but I'm less convinced as it strikes me as not wanting to be locked to Scarf pre-Trick, and Oger is a super useful Trick absorber (beware TWave). Sure, Sneasler can run Unburden, but that gets chewed up by a Red Card, which I could reasonably see something like Sandy Shocks running.
• I like your speed much more here. Double 121s, even if one isn't super threatening, followed by 110 and 101 from two mons that can meaningfully put out significant threat. You don't have obvious speed control, Scarf Cyc is a malady of my own mind but like it Can Work just not here. ASlash in Hail is not real, and Baxc struggles to get damage out if it's needing to revenge since it wants setup (hail or dd or whatever) before its priority attacks.

• I could reasonably see a scarf Baxc or Shocks, but I do think there are better items elsewhere for both - Shocks maybe moreso than Baxc to be honest, Red Card as a play is a bit more gimmicky/dependant on your confidence in using the tech.
• Your opponent has one removal, and it's like, okay. The problem is that it's only one removal, putting a ton of pressure on Tentacruel. They have a lot of useful hazards, TingLu solo-Spikes is maybe the only valid solo-Spiker, 2-4 valid Rockers depending how you count, and two realistic TSpikers. The problem is that you have an amazing Spinner, and their spinblocker is not exactly the most durable - Pain Split doesn't cut it nowadays, really.
• You have some okay hazards, not great but not alarming - TSpikes are hard to justify into Sneasler, but you have reasonable Spikes (even if H is maybe the worst Spiker of the Ogers), you have passable SR (ASlash is mostly fake though) and like, in another world TSpikes would be a good consideration. However, it's hard to see where they really fit Boots in on their team - you could reasonably see some of these running it, but Rilla, STail, Tenta, Hydrei, Rotom, and TingLu all really would rather be running other items.
• If I'm your opponent, it's non-negotiable to bring Sneasler and Rillaboom, that's generally speaking going to be where I expect to find my winpath. I'd think Necrozma is as near a certainty, perhaps a touch less so but it's a bit modular in the sense that it can really do so much depending on what the matchup needs.