#Old Gens OU

1 messages · Page 20 of 1

hasty ingot
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Is not mega zam

unborn solstice
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mdoom's quick as fuck and isn't threatened by much in sun bc greninja can eat dick

vast oracle
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i would rather run zardX on torkoal sun personally

hasty ingot
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115 speed is slow for what it wants to do

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Why are we running torkoal sun in sm to begin with

unborn solstice
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it's fun

vast oracle
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so you can run zardx!

hasty ingot
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Make tang fog fini

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Make the kyurem like a kart or smth tbh no way kyurem is optimal there

vast oracle
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zardx in sun means you dont even need dclaw or pursuit support to bust through mlati

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but anyways

hasty ingot
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Don't run this team

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Final note

unborn solstice
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thankfully i retreated to gen 3 after a while

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i got sick of fairy types again

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i lasted longer than last time

hasty ingot
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That's understandable

vast oracle
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there's a sun samples team for sm ou btw if you wanna give a whirl of the 'standard' sun builds to look for

hasty ingot
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My brain doesn't operate without team preview so more power to you

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(I definitely didn't play rby in roapl)

unborn solstice
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i'm a huge hypocrite bc i hate the power level of recent gens, especially 9, but i adore hyper offence and love gen 5 as my second favorite tier ever

leaden fiber
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LMAO

vast oracle
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rby dex arc, crazy

hasty ingot
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I won one game!

leaden fiber
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daves genuinely huge brain drafting

hasty ingot
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In 3 bo3s!

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I signed up for it cause I've been getting tutored in rby

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And then I got foddered

unborn solstice
leaden fiber
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real

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thats me

hasty ingot
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Smogon has a tutoring system

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You should check it out

leaden fiber
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and now i got caught up playing rby and now i have to play raiza

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( i will get super duper smoked )

unborn solstice
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learning is for nerds i only use real strats like choice band gengar in adv

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it's won me 84 gengargillion games

topaz sentinel
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Made my own gen 3 ou team can I get feedback not looking to take gengar off the team

leaden fiber
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doesnt look too shabby

unborn solstice
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not bad u just have to be really careful with pert and dol

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but that's standard anyways

leaden fiber
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im. on mobile but u can do

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fire grass wisp boom gar

unborn solstice
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it sucks that gar is like

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the only non gimmick ghost type in adv

leaden fiber
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not anymore

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missy is

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“good”

unborn solstice
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the only misdreavus sets i've seen

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were the gimmick

leaden fiber
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it’s a popularized team going around recently built by abr

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imo its garbage but it does beat some shit

unborn solstice
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jimothy cool and abr are the funniest singles influencers. you will find so many people using their sets and mons

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and they won't work at all

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bc they're not good at the game

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very funny

leaden fiber
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HUH

unborn solstice
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am i... wrong

leaden fiber
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oh do u mean rhe players or the sets

unborn solstice
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the players

leaden fiber
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if u mean the players ur very wrong

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abr is probably a top10 player rn

unborn solstice
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oh no i meant

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the

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players who use the sets

leaden fiber
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Oh

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yeah

unborn solstice
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and just assume they're gonna 6-0 bc they used a jimothy cool set

topaz sentinel
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So just change gengar a moves? Are it’s stat spreads alright?

leaden fiber
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well jimcools sets r ultimately gimmicks

unborn solstice
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yeah

leaden fiber
unborn solstice
topaz sentinel
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Ok take ur time, r u sure I don’t need ice punch cuz it seems it would be helpful for grounds and Salamanca

leaden fiber
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Mhh

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ya

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tbh

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maybe ice grass wisp

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ur prob ok into jira gross forre as is

unborn solstice
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i agree

topaz sentinel
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Oh I didn’t think abt those two

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Wait so wisp, grass, fire, boom?

unborn solstice
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no

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wisp grass ice boom

topaz sentinel
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Ok

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Ok lmk when u get gengars stat spread

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Also is starmie a viable alternative for a rapid spinner?

unborn solstice
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ehhhh

leaden fiber
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here meh, in general they fit on diff styles

unborn solstice
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i feel like you're really weak into dos if you plan on saving ttar for a while

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so u kind of want dol

leaden fiber
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yap

crisp saffron
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If you’re married to using mega doom go and do so

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But yes it is a bad Pokémon

leaden fiber
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Gengar
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 80 HP / 144 Def / 108 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature

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try this

crisp saffron
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If you want “sun” I’d go with the classic zard y, spinner and trapper

leaden fiber
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gar evs are fairly customizable though

crisp saffron
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Sorry didn’t mean to interject on something else just follow up on the earlier sm team

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Also scarf blacephelon is more consistent than victini

leaden fiber
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in sm? i dont agree

crisp saffron
crisp saffron
leaden fiber
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gambit is extremely useful

crisp saffron
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You want the actual cleaning potential from blace

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Victini just peters out

leaden fiber
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ho has like 2-3 cleaners anyw

crisp saffron
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Gambit isn’t great when it’s your entire speed control

leaden fiber
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i think its just a flawed ho, not that scarf tini is worse

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lol

unborn solstice
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normalize being ass at every gen besides one

topaz sentinel
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Ok I changed it to that spread

leaden fiber
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should be ok ur like kind of weak to some things but its not super flawed in general and i only say that bc i think structures like this are wtv in general

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which is just my opin

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so

crisp saffron
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But I guess it’s a matter of perspective

topaz sentinel
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Ok so the only thing I changed was gengars moved slightly to what u said above and gave it that stat spread

crisp saffron
leaden fiber
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Yea

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should be good

outer crescent
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The normalize pokémon when ghost:

crisp saffron
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It’s so funny how they made normalize decent for gen 6 and then it immediately went back to a joke ability

outer crescent
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This honestly reminds me of a "boss" battle in a now deleted pokemon game which was a battle against 5 mons that only used explosion

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And a guy on YouTube brought a level 2 pumpkaboo on accident

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Lol!

barren patrol
barren patrol
topaz sentinel
# leaden fiber should be good

Hey can I get team replacement suggestions I feel like I keep losing to the same 3 mons (toxic stallers, zapdos, starmie/SS kingdra) I feel I need more mons that can switch into toxic and ice/water moves

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Here’s the team again, I feel like I wanna add one or two of starmie, zapdos and maybe a diff spread for gengar cuz I feel I’m always losing cuz of these things

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I also feel w gengar I never been able to use will o wisp and that I sorely need fire punch

leaden fiber
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u can do cune dol

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wisp on gar is super good

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u can wisp gross and stuff

topaz sentinel
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@leaden fiber At least the ppl I’ve been running into have not had metagross for some reason

leaden fiber
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u wisp tar too

topaz sentinel
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Wait who would cune replace

leaden fiber
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u need to know when

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pert

topaz sentinel
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My Pokémon can’t switch into water/ice coverage not sure if I should get that myself w starmie?

leaden fiber
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No

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Starmie is very bad at checking other watesr

topaz sentinel
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Or just having that coverage for myself

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I swear the ppl I’ve been facing don’t use metagross for some reason and use special tyranitar

unborn silo
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Is it good?

Screenshot_20230901_214326_Chrome.jpg
upper plume
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Do u have a plan for DD Tar?

upper plume
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Also Heracross + Spikes don't mix

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If you're running a bulky physical Tar, then you shouldn't have Pursuit on it

unborn silo
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Why dont herra and spikes mix? Is it because spikes bait flying types in?

upper plume
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Yes

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Heracross brings in Flying types

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Which Spikes don't weaken

wispy spindle
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I am kinda new to this. Built this and proceeded to bully my friend with Swampert

Feel free to bully me

Screenshot_133.png
upper plume
#

!pokepaste

karmic geyserBOT
#

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

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You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
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upper plume
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Both of you

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Anyway

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First of all

upper plume
wispy spindle
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fair

upper plume
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Pick one or the other

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Essentially

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By one or the other, I mean pick one of Skarm + Jolteon or Magneton + Heracross

wispy spindle
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fair

upper plume
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The reason why is that Heracross is irritated by opposing Skarmory

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And Magneton removes Skarmory for the benefit of Heracross and other attackers

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Meanwhile, Jolteon is a good abuser of Skarmory's Spikes because of its Electric STAB and Baton Pass

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You don't necessarily want to run Jolteon and Magneton together since they stack Ground weaknesses

wispy spindle
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Yeah I was kinda running into that and they felt somewhat redunant together

upper plume
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Exactly

wispy spindle
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only reason I kept him was that i thought the agility baton pass was kinda funny with heracross

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super inconsistent, but kinda funny to make hera outspeed everything

upper plume
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I'd say that if you want to improve this team, you either lean into a Spikes focused direction or a physical offense focused direction

wispy spindle
upper plume
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Ok, so a few things

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There are better sets available for all of Swampert, Celebi, and Snorlax

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Swampert should use the Standard Defensive set to bolster your team against a gamut of physical attackers

leaden fiber
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uh

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the easy ans for this is just

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make it sdpass

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the issue w. that is that if u are sdpassing to heracross (why would u do that?) u need weather clear

upper plume
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Sd pass bi?

leaden fiber
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correct

upper plume
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I'll let zerkas cook

leaden fiber
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or just make it

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a traditional ho

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like

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or i guess a traditional mag hera ho

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but those arent very good so idk

unborn solstice
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not necessarily a rate, bc it's a team that i know is built well

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but im a huge hyper offense enjoyer and gen 7 has been very fun for me

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this HO team by finch is one of my favs

leaden fiber
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(xtra ho means its built by the player xtra)

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xtra$hine

unborn solstice
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(there is still that low ladder problem of running into the most insane picks that somehow wall my entire team, but that comes with the territory)

unborn solstice
leaden fiber
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could be modified then

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that is xtra ho though

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kyub koko lucha

unborn solstice
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nvm im a fucking moron lmao it's 1 above a finch team i just misread

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but yeah it's been extremely fun for me

unborn solstice
bronze depot
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Anyone feel like critiquing a gen 8 team I made for me?

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I’m new to team building, so don’t hold back but please be nice 🥲

upper plume
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This is an Ubers team

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Although you only have 1 Uber pokemon

bronze depot
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Oh I’m sorry. Is there an Uber chat?

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Never mind, I see it

manic bridge
gritty scaffold
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also the team doesnt seem like has answers to dnite

upper plume
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^

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You don't even have Stealth Rock to wear it down

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Nor do you have a faster scarfer to revenge kill it

topaz ocean
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whos good at sm ou

crisp saffron
# manic bridge Hi, new to competetive. I created a team for OU4 with massive help of smogon gui...

There’s a lot of necessary changes but you kinda have to decide what style you want, what you have is some kind of weird offense. You definitely need a different lead, glisgor works and set itself is fine as a lead but you need to put stealth rocks somewhere. You could put it on a bulky t-tar (for reasons I’ll explain below I’d put fire blast on said bulky t-tar.) You have a magnezone but nothing that’s exceptionally walled by skarm except glisgor, and there’s better steels for offense like an agility metagross or a scarf jirachi. Skarm can be dealt with by your special attackers and fire blast tar as a potential lure. I’d recommend you have a choice scarf user unless you really want to make this an HO team, which would require some other restructuring. So right now I’d say scarf rachi > magnezone, make ttar bulky rocks, in general I’d recommend you think about what kind of style you want this team to be and go from there

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Because it’s kind of hard to make changes without knowing what your end goal is

leaden gate
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @orchid tiger, @hasty ingot. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

hasty ingot
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blissey seems weird here

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(i'm also just not a big blissey fan in ss in general, giving melm the free swap is never good)

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so going down the list

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lando should be heavier invested into SpD

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heatran should most likely be leftovers on a team like this

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same with lando

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heatran is up to you but lando def needs lefties

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close combat > drain punch 10/10 times on buzzwole

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and you definitely want some offensive investment there

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maybe even choice band

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but helmet and a bit fatter is fine

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over blissey i would probably have tornadus-t

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assault vest looks decent here

manic bridge
manic bridge
gritty scaffold
manic bridge
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what are the best leads in my tier?

gritty scaffold
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Breloom , metagross , zap (which can just u turn to bring a counter after u set up) , empoleon , aero , infernape , machamp

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Jirachi snd swampert, hippo is also a problem

gritty scaffold
vast bay
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @polar nacelle, @surreal crypt, @old iris, @leaden fiber. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

gritty scaffold
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I wouldnt lead with dug bc its meant to be a revenge killer

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Ans you usually want hp bug

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And you have no spike setters

vast bay
gritty scaffold
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I think skarm over claydol tbh

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This team doesnt rly need spin

vast bay
gritty scaffold
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Standard

vast bay
gritty scaffold
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Yea prob

vast bay
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Thx

unborn silo
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Rate my gag team

Screenshot_20230901_214302_Chrome.jpg
upper plume
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I wouldn't go Sub Salac on Blaziken tbh

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It isn't the worst, but if you're leading with it, then I'd recommend a different set and/or item

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Give your Aero a Jolly nature so that it can outrun +1 DD Tar

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Flygon has to be a defensive set since it's the only mon that can conceivably check DD Tar

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But it and Forretress want Pursuit Tar so that Gar doesn't become too irritating

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So I'd do that > Zam

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I also think that Cloyster fits this team better than Forre anywho

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Because Cloy is more offensive

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Tho if you want to stick with Forretress, give it max Spdef, a Careful Nature, and EQ > Body Slam

foggy pebble
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made a slightly upgraded version of the team i actually used in my ultra sun playthrough that is most definitely not competitively viable but i am emotionally attached to them all so theyre goated

image.png
upper plume
#

!pokepaste

karmic geyserBOT
#

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
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You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
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upper plume
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for one

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but also your original message implies that you're not going to change out any mon on this team

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which is unfortunate because 5/6 mons on your team suck

foggy pebble
foggy pebble
upper plume
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Raichu-A is PU, while Sylveon is UU

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in SM

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if you want to play the tier with a team that will find you consistent success

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!gen7samples

karmic geyserBOT
#

SM Sample Teams
Ubers: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen7ubers
OU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen7ou
UU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen7uu
RU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen7ru
NU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen7nu
PU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen7pu
LC: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen7lc
1v1: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen71v1
Monotype: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen7monotype
Let's Go OU: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3667865/post-8552756
Doubles OU: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3661293/

upper plume
#

I suggest you take a look at these

foggy pebble
#

thank u

topaz ocean
lost summit
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @polar nacelle, @surreal crypt, @old iris, @leaden fiber. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

polar nacelle
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Dont use cb meta there

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Use agility metagross if u must

lost summit
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Should I drop meta

polar nacelle
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The mon in the meta slot is usually a sweeper

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Usually starmie or aero goes there

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Or zap or molt

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Meta is possible but not so common

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But if u do use it u should use the sweeper set which is agility

lost summit
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What zap set should I use

polar nacelle
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Anything sweeperish

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As long as it has spatk investment and tbolt and hidden power its an ok set to use

lost summit
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Something like this

polar nacelle
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Yeah smth like this

lost summit
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Thanks mate😃

vast oracle
# topaz ocean https://pokepast.es/b432e4aba95184a0

i dislike LO kyu-b with no roost & defog cause you'll die pretty quickly otherwise, and I also prefer that set more on electric terrain structures with koko. since you picked kyu-b initially, i'd assume you want the team to be more offensive, and if so:

  • replace kyu-b with scarf kartana, gives you your cleaner and better matchup against opposing offense
  • run the more offensive lando-t set with SD + z fly. You can still run bulk investment in this too if you want to tank some physical attacks, like going with EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Spe (or some other benchmark you come up with)
  • with lando-t as the z move user, run life orb on greninja instead. you dont need z dig either here cause psyspam pressures toxapex enough (i'd much rather z low kick tbh). also spikes over tspikes cause a lot of lele+mzam's checks are steels, so you support them better (tspikes greninja in general is also mostly either a lead on HO running dual hazards or found on more fat hazard-stacking structures that can afford a different spiker, like ferrothorn). I'd go with hydro pump/ice beam/hp fire too as the attacks, which cover similar threats as your current moveset, with hydro pump + hp fire in particular to pressure the steels more. if so, dont forget to go with timid max/max
  • hp fire over focus blast on lele to nuke msciz (heatran gets overwhelmed by repeated psychics anyways)

I personally dislike modest mzam cause you lose the speed tier against mlop and opposing mzam but it's fine if you wanna keep it i guess, esp since there's scarf kartana too, so not the end of the world

#

if you want to keep the other sets as is and make the team more BO, you can go with like rotom-w over kyu-b for more pivoting options + defogger + bulky water (though i'd still replace the greninja set with z low kick + spikes, and go with uturn on lando-t over SD [with like hp ice/toxic over smack down])

lost summit
#

!gen4samples

karmic geyserBOT
#

DPP Sample Teams
Ubers: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen4ubers
OU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen4ou
UU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen4uu
NU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen4nu
PU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen4pu
ZU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen4zu
LC: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen4lc
Monotype: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen4monotype
1v1: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen41v1
Doubles OU: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/com/forums/threads/3717286/

topaz ocean
vast oracle
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mag gets overwhelmed by psyspam + spikes (the new set with LO Hp fire should also chip it down too)

topaz ocean
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I was gonna go for that at first but I rarely use T spike gren wanted to try it out

vast oracle
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yeah tspikes gren is good, just not in this build imo

topaz ocean
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I put some defense on mag to live hjk from medi and lucha after boosted cause it’s a threat

vast oracle
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yeah thats fine, i think that's the standard spread too afaik, also lives lando's eq

topaz ocean
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Yeah mag is bulky as shit

vast oracle
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oh also, very minor but

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make greninja male

topaz ocean
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yeah forgot

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karts a problem so I might go for that max defense zam but idk on psy spam

vast oracle
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not necessary. between keeping lando-t + mage alive so kart can't lock into 1 move to sweep your whole team and multiple potential revenge killers, i think the matchup is outplay-able

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plus, at the end of the day, you're running offense so you cant really afford to switch into stuff freely -- just gotta out-offense em

topaz ocean
fallow grail
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

unborn solstice
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

vast oracle
# topaz ocean https://pokepast.es/04c7a3fb0ad5d532

this feels like a bunch of offensive mons being jammed together but i personally cant tell what the intention/direction of the team is supposed to be. most are either wallbreakers or setup sweepers but it's not HO either. the closest thing I can think of is I guess the specs clown + mage + mzam together in like a offense/BO? but then a big issue i see with that is you have bulu's terrain, which makes opposing heatran (and mttar too) live forever

vast oracle
# unborn solstice https://pokepast.es/13a38f22660ae8e9 Gen 7 OU HO attempt

yeah this is unfortunately unviable. blace is already a niche mon in general, and running AV on it is even more unviable. closest thing you run on HO is either scarf or subcm, imo. and then you have clef, mlop, and scarf landot, which are generally not mons you run on HO either (KB and greninja too in general, but both can still be workable on somes HOs to some extent: for example, running the former in that diavolc team, and the latter as an offensive spiker on those psyspam/fairyspam structures)

unborn solstice
#

Clef is like. invaluable for me. bulky mono fairy with no chip is amazing for pivots and twave can shut down a lot of scarfers for MLop and Blace/Gren kills

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Just my thought process and how it’s worked so far.

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scarf lando is mostly for pivoting and mlop is just another big fuck you attacker to send in after a successful pivot

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i would do MMedi but since its speed tier is kind of middling all things considered it doesn’t seem to fit as well

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I’m not trying to say you’re wrong, i’m obviously new to the tier, but this is just my experience/reasoning for making the team and i would love slot suggestions

upper plume
#

ur removal is a scarf lando t

unborn solstice
#

it’s worked so far. and stuff that threatens lando t can be pivoted out of into like blace or gren

fallow grail
topaz ocean
upper plume
#

hyper offense or heavy offense (which I've also heard of)

topaz ocean
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never heard of heavy

upper plume
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yeah hyper is more common

fallow grail
#

Then why is a deffendiv cleaf in there? Isnt the whole purpose of hyper offense to always keep the onffense on to pressure the oponent?

leaden fiber
#

its closer to a bulkyoffense structure yeah

unborn solstice
thorn rivet
#

https://pokepast.es/4f483236dfe06d84
Gen 5 ou rain team
Idk about lando ev I I like defensive to make me a bit better to sand structures and to catch a big phis hit and initimidate it and a volt absorb catcher smack down eq I like for mag/thunder(without hp ice) and other flying pests u turn for momentum and boom for wall breaking gastrodon and supprise kills on a few things and I think it’s fine that ferro gets both rocks and spikes as idk what it would run if I removed one.

Lati running specs so if scissor tries to swich in it gets cleanly 2hit by thunder and also outrageous power of specs Draco
trick cause wall break and not much more coverage I need to fit in as either I be spamming Draco ice beam or thunder and gainsing rain boosted surf ain’t that valuable as I have keldio which does that better and hits about as hard as thunder

Keldio is a war crime with scarf scald/hydro with hp ghost it can take out a weak jelly pump is there if I need the extra power might change scald to surf and revenges pretty much anything in rain

Also what the difference between resto chesto poli and lefties poli

I think the rest are quite normal to rain teams.
My biggest problem is that keldio poli ferro lati t cruel is all like must have in rain so I tried experimenting with the last slot a bit with like thunderous( agility and nasty plot variants) and it’s disgusting but I feel a little inconsistent rotum I think is more consistent but it seems harder to wall break with it and I allways get volt block predicts wrong and willow never hits so am believing in lando too much what problems could I face and what other replacents for the last slot for rain exist

karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @astral thistle, @short hedge, @surreal crypt, @upper plume. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upper plume
#

most of your team looks fine, but your landorus set looks a bit weird

#

lefties poli is a more conventional set that lets it last in a weather war

thorn rivet
#

I see

upper plume
#

chesto poli is a more recent tech used for more aggressive teams that try and keep politoed healthier in exchange for worse longevity in a longer game

#

if you're running chesto poli, you have the ability to run stuff like thief

thorn rivet
#

Do you think I should give it a try

upper plume
#

which could potentially steal leftovers from keldeo checks like jellicent or celebi on the switch

#

not necessarily

#

I'm just saying that's one of the options chesto rest opens up

thorn rivet
#

Ok

upper plume
#

I don't think explosion is good on lando-t

thorn rivet
#

Why not

upper plume
#

because it's not a lead and it doesn't halve the opponent's defense like it does prior to gen 5

#

basically explosion is mostly seen on lead landorus-t

thorn rivet
#

I usually lead with lati or poly what should my lead actualy be

upper plume
#

poli or lati are fine leads

#

wait run surf and dpulse/recover > thunder and ice beam on latios

thorn rivet
#

Why so

#

Still specs or life orb

upper plume
#

specs > life orb

#

it's so powerful

thorn rivet
#

Why recover specs

upper plume
#

once you've tricked your specs away you have the opportunity to heal

thorn rivet
#

Oh I see

upper plume
#

like if you trick into a ferrothorn, you can heal as it sets spikes

#

dpulse is the standard last

thorn rivet
#

Makes sence

#

I’ll give it a try

upper plume
#

smack down lando is also less necessary since this team doesn't struggle versus skarmory

thorn rivet
#

What do I replace lando with then or do I run a superpower rocks eq u turn set

upper plume
#

you can either go mamoswine > lando for the ability to break down bulky sand teams

#

or run the defensive lando-t set

#

potentially making lando-t your stealth rocker and freeing up a move slot for ferrothorn

thorn rivet
#

What’s the mamo set and what move to i slot in for ferro prot ? For lefties extra heal and scout

upper plume
#

if you're running the defensive lando-t set, then you can run gyro ball

#

worry seed is a fun tech tho

#

to just annoy poison heal and magic guard Pokemon

thorn rivet
#

I see and spam freely on switches along with knock off

upper plume
#

yes, if you choose to do so

# 
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard```
#

substitute mamoswine or 4 attacks with superpower are both great

#

item can be never melt ice or leftovers

#

mamoswine also gives you a nice backup check to thundurus-therian

#

with its powerful ice shard

thorn rivet
#

I see I’ll try it out and see how it feels feels spicy

#

Does it oko with shard

upper plume
#

not quite, but it does over half

#

that is if the thundurus is running bulk

thorn rivet
#

Ok

upper plume
#

but latios + mamoswine should make you fine enough for it

thorn rivet
#

Yea

#

What matchups should I be worried about with mamo and lando

upper plume
#

don't run both lando and mamoswine

thorn rivet
#

I mean with either

upper plume
#

they don't really switch into much on opposing rain teams

thorn rivet
#

Opposing rain could be issues

upper plume
#

but in terms of their use vs rain, mamoswine does better since it can revenge kill latios or thundurus

#

or tornadus

thorn rivet
#

I see

upper plume
#

however, defensive landorus-therian will never not be bad

#

because of intimidate and u-turn and stab eq

thorn rivet
#

Yea when I tried it without boom and smack down it was always conisnstent and loved it as it’s never bad

upper plume
#

typically, the ground type on rain is mamoswine or garchomp since they're more threatening into the rain mirror

#

also

#

if you want to learn about a pokemon's place in bw

#

search up "smogon bw <pokemon>" on google

#

wait there's a command for it

karmic geyserBOT
thorn rivet
#

I see

#

Ok biggest question

#

Can I replace ferro with jirachi

upper plume
#

not really

thorn rivet
#

As it feels slightly criminal

upper plume
#

because rain really wants ferrothorn's defensive presence and spikes

#

if you look at it

#

it resists all of water, electric and dragon

#

all of which are threatening types on opposing rain teams

#

so it can give you a buffer vs those threats

#

and the reason you want spikes is because spikes wear down the opposing tyranitar very quickly

thorn rivet
#

What if I run jirachi and a grass like breloom

upper plume
#

those teams are ok

thorn rivet
#

I see

upper plume
#

one of the older rain samples has a jirachi + breloom team

#

but here's the thing

#

with those teams

#

you are essentially doing in two slots

#

what ferrothorn could do in one

thorn rivet
#

True and you still don’t have hazards

upper plume
#

well jirachi could be your rocker

#

but you don't have spikes

thorn rivet
#

But jirachi movset can’t hold everything it needs

upper plume
#

yeah

thorn rivet
#

Like wish prot rocks iron head u turn

upper plume
#

that's what that sample team uses

#

pretty much

#

!gen5samples

karmic geyserBOT
#

BW Sample Teams
Ubers: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen5ubers
OU: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3686880/
UU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen5uu
RU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen5ru
NU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen5nu
PU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen5pu
ZU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen5zu
LC: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen5lc
1v1: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen51v1
Doubles OU: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/com/forums/threads/3606719/

upper plume
#

so if you go to the ou samples, the rachi + loom team is one of the retired samples

thorn rivet
#

What’s the most consistent rain team

upper plume
#

standard rain

#

3 support, 3 sweepers

#

what's not to love

thorn rivet
#

Well it feels weird that rain has like 2 slots at max you can change up

upper plume
#

part of it is that you want to abuse so much in rain

thorn rivet
#

True

upper plume
#

but you also can't just put 5 offensive pokemon and a politoed and expect to be consistent

thorn rivet
#

Yea it’s more that 3 Defensive you can’t change up and 2 offensive are kinda taken up

#

Like are there lati and keldio replacents

upper plume
#

latios less so

#

keldeo sure

#

the reason why latios is harder to replace is because it has a great typing (both defensively and offensively) and because it's so powerful

thorn rivet
#

What do you replace keldio with starmie ?

upper plume
#

starmie is faster, has better coverage, and can (sometimes) spin

thorn rivet
#

I feel that starmie can barely ever spin as it feels verry frail and ferro can destroy it

#

So is it valuable to run 4 attacks

upper plume
#

4a starmie works fine

#

it doesn't always need to spin

thorn rivet
#

I’m assuming specs as scarf seems like it might lack power

upper plume
#

it can run either

#

rain makes up for the lack of power if using scarf

#

and scarf starmie is a scarfer who outruns the fastest common scarfer (latios)

thorn rivet
#

I see

#

Yea oh I forgor starmie got ice beam hmm seems kinda spice

upper plume
#

and starmie has analytic to get an extra boost if your opponent switches

thorn rivet
#

Is natural cure better or analytic

#

For free status absorb

upper plume
#

most starmies are offensive nowadays

#

so analytic

#

if you wanted to run a bulky starmie (which tends to be very passive) then you would run ncure

karmic geyserBOT
upper plume
#

yeah sample starmie sets

thorn rivet
#

With bulky starmie it feels like it might not have enough bulk and losing one of rain nukes feels wasteful now I think about it

upper plume
#

offensive spin and specs

thorn rivet
#

Hmm

#

It feels hard changing my lati set as it gave me so much success could you explain why dragon enegy recover surf over thunder ice Draco

upper plume
#

you aren't replacing draco meteor or trick

#

those two stay

#

you add surf

thorn rivet
#

Yea

upper plume
#

and then you pick between either dragon pulse or recover

thorn rivet
#

Oh

#

That makes a lot more sence

#

Replacing Draco seems like a crime to me

upper plume
#

draco meteor is half the reason latios is good

thorn rivet
#

True

upper plume
#

every set listed on latios's page have draco meteor on them

#

and the ones that are "other options" are the ones that don't use draco meteor

thorn rivet
#

Is lati specs keldio scarf hood or should I swich them around or run doubbel scarf or doubbel specs

upper plume
#

specs latios and scarf keldeo is good

#

scarf keldeo single handedly solves your matchup into hyper offense teams

thorn rivet
#

Yea

#

In rain omg why is it not banned with lati

#

Actual war crime

upper plume
#

Fr

thorn rivet
#

What is more common item for latios specs or scarf to see should I risk with keldio

upper plume
#

You don't want double specs or double scarf

#

For sure

thorn rivet
#

No I meant like in a posing teams What’s more common specs or scarf lati

upper plume
#

Technically Scarf lati is more common

thorn rivet
#

To see if I can revenge with keldio

#

Wdm technically

upper plume
#

Bc honestly

#

Latios can basically do whatever it wants and it'll do fine

#

You'd have to calc to see the set anyway

thorn rivet
#

I see I was thinking of dropping hydro pump for ice coverage to buly lati with keldio

upper plume
#

You don't want to drop Hydro

thorn rivet
#

Yea I thought as much

#

Is hp ghost or dark beter

#

Sorry if I am taking a lot of your time but I’m learning so much

upper plume
#

I believe Ghost gets used more

#

No worries

thorn rivet
#

What benefits do either one give

upper plume
#

I think Ghost hits fighting types harder

#

Is the main draw

#

And normal types aren't super common in bw anyway

#

Bc blissey is entry for ferrothorn/tentacruel

thorn rivet
#

Yea also I haven’t seen a lot of stall does it exist where has it gone

#

Like full stall with evil lite Chancey and all

upper plume
#

Eviolite chansey is seen more on Sun stall

#

Which itself is very uncommon

thorn rivet
#

Why sun as the weather

upper plume
#

Because they actually want to abuse Cresselia

thorn rivet
#

It’s gets abused by rocks tho

upper plume
#

Yeah

leaden fiber
#

bounce em

thorn rivet
#

What does cress do

leaden fiber
#

not take damage

thorn rivet
leaden fiber
#
  • in sun regens 75%
upper plume
#

^

thorn rivet
#

Oh I see

leaden fiber
#

so if setup right u just sit on shit forever

upper plume
#

Yeah Xatu bounces hazards

leaden fiber
#

xatu beats most drillers and ferro

thorn rivet
#

Well but Inst that verry prediction reliant

leaden fiber
#

Nah cuz u can go hard on a lot of rockers pretty safely

#

minus like

#

rocks terrak, rocks chomp, stuff like that

#

but those don't survive that long anyways

#

rocks terrak is bad anyways

upper plume
#

Hazard leads also tend to not contest sun well

#

Because they're on hyper offense teams that don't bring weather

thorn rivet
#

But what if you do like a Lati lead

upper plume
#

Sun stall has a chansey

thorn rivet
#

Oh I forgor

#

Also darm and victini must hit hard in sun

upper plume
#

They do

#

But they also stack fire types

thorn rivet
#

Wait what about chlorophyll venu

#

And growth

leaden fiber
#

banned

thorn rivet
#

Oh

upper plume
#

Chlorophyll + Drought are banned together

#

It was eventually realized that Dugtrio was the real culprit for why ChoroDrought was so good

#

But there isn't an urge from the playerbase to unban ChloroDrought

thorn rivet
#

I see

#

Dug to eat t tar and permanent sun

upper plume
#

And heatran

#

And weakened politoed

thorn rivet
#

Oh yea forgor heatran

#

Also is it just me or where has taunt gone

upper plume
#

It still exists on some Pokes

#

It's just that the metagame has shifted to be more offensive

thorn rivet
#

I see

upper plume
#

Like Jellicent commonly runs Taunt

thorn rivet
#

Oh problem to stop cm keldio I’m assuming

upper plume
#

That and other defensive Pokemon

#

Like Gastrodon can't Toxic or Recover

#

No hazards for Skarmory

#

Etc.

thorn rivet
#

What is the matchup circle like in bw ou

#

As it seems like this gen is a mess and there should be a few banned things

#

What happend

upper plume
#

There's like two parts to it

#

One is that when BW was current generation, a lot of powerful Pokemon were let in the tier

thorn rivet
#

I’m already affraid

upper plume
#

Think like Thundurus-I, Sand Rush Excadrill, etc.

thorn rivet
#

Yea

upper plume
#

So it took some time to sort that out

#

And then some controversial votes occurred (DrizzleSwim being the most notable)

#

But even stuff like Keldeo getting suspected twice

thorn rivet
#

What’s drizzle swim

upper plume
#

Basically you can't use a Drizzle Pokemon and a Swift Swim Pokemon on the same team

thorn rivet
#

Ok fair enough

upper plume
#

The reason why it's controversial is two fold

#
  1. Some people think that it was the wrong decision, and Drizzle should have been removed.
  2. It was the first complex ban in Smogon history, which means that a pair of strategies were restricted from being used together.
thorn rivet
#

I see

#

What else happened

#

Thisgen looks damaged

#

Kinda want to see all the bans and the contoroveries

thorn rivet
upper plume
#

I don't really like boiling down the archetypal matchups into a "rock paper scissors"

#

since that tends to oversimplify building in this tier

#

but the idea is that sand is good into rain because sand teams lean in favor of longevity in order to cut off the rain over the course of the battle

#

hyper offense teams play aggressive to take advantage of and break through the aforementioned sand teams

#

and rain teams do well into hyper offense since the weather goes uncontested and you can abuse your powerful boosted water moves

upper plume
#

you'll get everything prior to the second keldeo suspect test

thorn rivet
#

But yea only other thing I need is machup circle and why no lati ban

upper plume
#

as for why no lati ban

thorn rivet
upper plume
#

for one it hasn't been formally proposed

#

for two there are several powerful elements of the tier that latios helps keep in check

#

stuff like keldeo and thundurus

thorn rivet
#

I see and pursuit trap

upper plume
#

yeah

thorn rivet
#

Do you think its damaging tho

leaden fiber
#

bw is a tier built on very fragile supports

#

u cant really remove anything consequential atm

#

or else the entire tier will crumble

#

maybe at some point in the future where we're prepared to do that and restructure the tier fundamentally sure

#

but rn banning anything just leads to gaping holes

thorn rivet
#

Fair enough

#

Well that’s a lot

upper plume
#

the idea is that if you ban latios, you'd also have to ban thundurus and keldeo, and from there you'd also have to ban volcarona and maybe cloyster

#

and then the magic guard psychic types are so powerful as well

#

and then you don't know from there what could be too powerful

#

because we're talking theorymon at that point

thorn rivet
#

Conclusion this gen is blessed and cursed

gritty scaffold
thorn rivet
#

And for what reason

gritty scaffold
#

Yea id recommend that

#

Not only bc it outspeeds alot of stuff but bc since ur in rain some stuff shouldnt outspeed you
Example some tentas;

#

My main problem of lando in rain is the fact that is hard to use vs opposing rain

thorn rivet
#

Honestly I have changed everything exept lati with the recommendations as without thunder ice lati it’s a lot harder to beat stuff like drag mag and opposing rain

#

Lando I feel gives me betetr sand counterplay as eq imuintly and intim spam

#

Giving a hp ice and super power sets a go

#

I’ll outspeed a regular t cruel

#

Anything else

gritty scaffold
thorn rivet
# gritty scaffold Eh it doesnt rly fix tbh

It does to some extent and getting free para on a lati switching in or para anything is verry nice and rain v rain I can use it for volt blocking thunder block but I agree it’s a tougher matchup

#

And it’s more outplays I’m getting saved by than anything else

gritty scaffold
#

If anything they can just scout that move and pivot to an elec immune

#

Example mamo, drill , thundy , loom ig?.

delicate jungle
#

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

  • Leech Seed
  • Gyro Ball
  • Stealth Rock
  • Power Whip

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Magma Storm
  • Earth Power
  • Taunt
  • Toxic

Azumarill (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD
Adamant Nature

  • Play Rough
  • Waterfall
  • Aqua Jet
  • Knock Off

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

  • High Jump Kick
  • Return
  • Fake Out
  • Ice Punch

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Defog
  • Soft-Boiled
  • Will-O-Wisp
  • Psychic

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 68 SpA / 16 Spe
Bold Nature

  • Thunderbolt
  • Roost
  • Defog
  • Heat Wave
#

gen 6 ou team

#

thoughts?

upper plume
gritty scaffold
#

Bc they wanna deal with drill,chomp better

upper plume
#

you'd still use speed to hold off drill

gritty scaffold
#

yea

prisma pulsar
#

Dont need a team rate particularly but do want someone well versed in ORAS to help me just filter through some teams

#

i want to remove some garbage and keep whatever could be good in current meta

wraith mulch
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @orchid tiger, @hasty ingot. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wraith mulch
#

pult mu is kinda sus tbf but eh

leaden fiber
#

@solid cradle ge

solid cradle
#

its just the nature of ss

#

honestly this looks pretty good is there something specific you were worried about or

#

this is a team i would go test

tropic schooner
#

Uh idk i dont think this team needs defog

wraith mulch
#

idk i got rolled on ladder and copied it lol

#

still not used to ss threatlists n stuff

tropic schooner
#

Av torn might be a consideration? Also defo run high horsepower over eq on melm

#

Due to grassy terrain reduction shit

wraith mulch
#

what does av do over boots?

solid cradle
#

better pult mu is one big thing, i think this team is like

#

at the point where it could go defogless

#

but i would probably keep defog

#

also yeah high horsepower i missed that

#

you can also do stomping tantrum chomp

#

technically better + there is sometimes a very very very funny interaction w protect

#

w opp swap -> protect failed -> stomping tantrum doubled power

#

never comes up rly i think ive had it happen once in my life

#

i think like i feel not so great going defogless on teams that arent trying to close out the game quickly if that makes sense

#

and this team clearly wants to play a longer style of game, and if so, idt it's correct to not have at least some hazard removal

#

one thing i would consider is going np gking here that gives more breaking power in fatter mus, and i dont really see a huge reason to want av

#

ig it technically helps the pult mu or smth

wraith mulch
#

you act as a trick absorber i think with av

solid cradle
#

thats fair enough i suppose

hasty ingot
solid cradle
#

yeah its kinda just a very normal build it feels like that is doing good normal ss things

hasty ingot
#

I like what you have here but ona team like this I feel like pex + gking is superfluous

solid cradle
#

yeah pex was also kinda weird to me

hasty ingot
#

If you make chomp more SpD and use bro over pex, you have an open slot over gking

wraith mulch
#

uhh i figured tspikes is useful if they spam grounded mons

#

thats pex's main idea

hasty ingot
#

I'd also suggest heat wave > hurricane since kartana is always a large threat to terrain teams

wraith mulch
#

i do agree pex is a weird fit

hasty ingot
#

On torn

#

And you want the consistency

solid cradle
# wraith mulch still not used to ss threatlists n stuff

one kinda crude but effective way of going about things is to just procedurally go through every single mon on the vr and go
is this a problem. if so, do i feel like i am ok with allowing that to be a problem/can i accept it/how much counterplay do i have

wraith mulch
wraith mulch
solid cradle
#

its fine like

#

slowbro isnt Ideal vs watershifu but like its fine

#

itll do

wraith mulch
#

what will be over gking then

solid cradle
#

so we have in this rilla torn chomp bro melm right

wraith mulch
#

ye thats the 5

solid cradle
#

my first instinct is weavile

#

but let me think about this

wraith mulch
#

could tran work?

solid cradle
#

yeah idm weavile i think thats a reasonable choice here tho like again the pult mu is dodgy but theres not rly a great soln

#

tran could work let me think about this

#

yeah i like tran actually thats a good idea means u get to be the asshole even more, patches up the pult mu to a point i feel fine with it, has some breaking stuff & text vs fat, i would be a tiny bit scared about the buzzwole mu but you have outs and its probably not a huge deal anyway considering it needs leech ice punch cc exactly

#

yeah i mean now i write that thats like yeah ok one exact buzzwole set kinda is a problem but you can play around it + it needs to be pretty precise to actually even cause an issue thats whatever dont worry about it

wraith mulch
#

is that cb zwole?

solid cradle
#

yeah i mean like in theory 3a roost is more annoying bc you dont get to protect on it and scout sets + longevity but like idk its not a big deal i feel like

wraith mulch
#

ah

solid cradle
#

if you have to be weak to something this is not a bad thing to be weak to

#

and you kinda do have to be weak to smth in mons

wraith mulch
#

what does spdef chomp look like lol

solid cradle
#

prob fine to run 252 hp 252 spd whats the speed for?

#

also would probably be on flame body tran here

#

helps weavile mu a lot for instance

wraith mulch
solid cradle
#

also eg buzzwole mu you can fish

#

yeah nido is like i mean ok you can speed for that i guess if you care but i would feel kinda fine just punting to nido like nido will beat this team no matter what you're doing (and dw it was also beating the previous one) i feel like, kinda inherently?

wraith mulch
#

alr ill drop speed then

solid cradle
#

i would also if you do want to run speed go 252 hp 136 spd but yeah

#

it hurts to like basically just say yeah ok this mu is unwinnable i wont put effort into this but i think that sometimes for EV it is necessary unfortunately

wraith mulch
#

ill run no speed for now and see how it goes, ty!

solid cradle
#

np! let me know if you have any other questions and please ping me in future if you want ss ou help

hasty ingot
#

Just knocking it is gangbusters a lot of the time

#

I can link the original rmt, it's a good read

#

(definitely not cause I wrote it)

#

This was made at a time when shifu was at a low tbf

#

But bro is usually sufficient, especially if it's pads

#

Band became less ubiquitous over time, it's pretty evenly split between that and scarf and pads

keen oar
solid cradle
#

just as the super low hanging fruit here

hazy bronze
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

vast oracle
# hazy bronze https://pokepast.es/922b927f130ffcb8 gen 7 ou
  • lacks a ground, speed control, and defogger (just mdia alone isn't enough, especially with KB + volc), which makes scarf landot an easy fix over the amoong.
  • lack of steel is also concerning, i'd run it over one of your offensive mons (preferably kart just cause diavolc & dia+kb are known cores) if you want to keep the structure more BO.
  • volc set looks a bit weird -- it's like an amalgamation of bulkarona and subswarm, and i'd rather run one over the other. i think you either make it subswarm or like fully offensive (qd+3a with lum/iapapa)
  • lefties over berry if you're running pain split rotomw
lost summit
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

gritty scaffold
#

I think you might want a defoger/spinner on this team

#

Id suggest rocks>flame clef and mayb change chomp to exca to spin?

lost summit
#

That makes sense

hazy bronze
wraith mulch
solid cradle
wraith mulch
solid cradle
#

yeah i mean like

#

its annoying but you could do some pivoting stuff w eg going melm on a scales into bro or something

#

but yeah the team kinda struggles with it

#

but ok it is also not such a significant force in the metagame so i wouldnt worry too much, if you were worried i would maybe swap back to hurricane on torn and use that

#

but idt thats worth making a concession for yk?

wraith mulch
#

icic, so its kinda like buzzwole where you pray its not there but if it is just play around it

solid cradle
#

yeah and like the praying is very likely to work

#

buzzwole you have to dodge a quite specific set of coverage right

#

and i think like the chances of that appearing are significantly higher than kommo-o

wraith mulch
#

blobthumbsup tyy

keen oar
#

trying out psychic spam

#

As Tapu lulu has the ability to activate psychic surge, I'd figured putting Psychium Z on it

prisma pulsar
#

Looks fine, id do a status move on rotom over defog tho

#

U have it on lando

#

Likely twave

#

For volcarona

#

Which sets up on a lot and autowins

leaden fiber
#

can try boom mage too

prisma pulsar
#

For sure

#

Also

#

Psyshock > psychic on zlele no?

leaden fiber
#

on z psy

#

idk

#

id probaly run fire

#

though

#

cuz ur 6-0 by steela

#

or thunder

topaz ocean
#

fightinium>psychium

opal beacon
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @orchid tiger, @hasty ingot. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upper nacelle
#

Wait nvm

#

Just realised I had no hazard control

neon raptor
#

It’s not technically necessary in SS OU.

lyric nebula
#

Guys anyone have gen5 Team? i want to try some diffenrent think

gritty scaffold
#

you make the teams and post here but you can look at the samples https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bw-ou-samples-thread.3686880/

Smogon Forums
OU - BW OU Samples Thread

Maintained by the BW community.

Hello! This thread is here to archive teams from the Black and White Overused metagame and showcase popular playstyles and archetypes of the current metagame. Its aim is to help beginners and intermediate level players to get acclimated to the tier, or simply to...

tiny plover
upper plume
#

Which tier is this for

tiny plover
#

should've said that earlier mb

karmic geyserBOT
leaden fiber
#

freed

outer crescent
#

gaming

smoky jasper
#

Back?

keen oar
#

Though, When it comes to grass spam why do people run greninja?

vast oracle
#

whoops missed this cause rmts have been closed for a bit

vast oracle
vast oracle
# keen oar https://pokepast.es/27ce546c87a40339

team gets bullied by tapu koko though, especially with no ground. i recommend going for gastro over agren here instead; gives you your water resist too cause bulu is offensive (over the spdef variants) and to switch into rotomw, which is very annoying to do for non-mlatias grassspams

#

Personally like bullet seed mhera on bulu builds for the pseudo-stab and makes you capable of 6-0ing stall yourself (hits unaclef and physdef pex harder) but i guess pin missile is fine here yea for mlati just cause you lack pursuit for bulu+kart

rancid pike
#

No clue how good this team is

upper plume
#

It looks fine

#

Toxicroak is kinda weird cuz it relies on getting setup vs specific mons that can't break its Sub

#

Ferrothorn and choiced Keldeo namely

#

Plus it doesn't really help your matchup into bulky sand teams

#

A more conventional approach on rain is to use something like a Sub Mamo or Garchomp

#

Both of whom give you extra insurance into Thundurus-T

upper plume
#

While also being a massive threat for opposing Sand teams

gritty scaffold
#

I dont rly like life orb here aswell but yea would be better just use thund

rancid pike
#

This look better

#

And I’m open to replace thunder with chomp if it would make the team better

upper plume
#

leftovers > life orb on thundurus

#

you also need hp ice on every thundy set

karmic geyserBOT
upper plume
#

whoops

karmic geyserBOT
undone flicker
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @polar nacelle, @surreal crypt, @old iris, @leaden fiber. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

undone flicker
#

Should I run a spinner? Claydol?

upper plume
#

typically we don't do rmt's for partially complete teams

gritty scaffold
leaden fiber
#

mie not bad here, run grass cele though dont lose to dug lol

polar nacelle
#

same with the celebi, u need something to hit skarm

#

and ur pert should be more offensive

#

alternatively u can make everything more defensive then u want skarm for spikes

vivid kraken
#

this good?

gritty scaffold
#

mega chomp without a sand setter is kinda mid

#

also clef should be phys def i think. this team looks so cursed im going to ping a team rater so can give proper help

#

you should specify what gen is when posting a pokepaste so the rater can help

#

@vast oracle Can you help? this person forgot to specify the gen but is gen 7 ou

stable sonnet
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @astral thistle, @short hedge, @surreal crypt, @upper plume. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

gritty scaffold
#

Wtf

gritty scaffold
rain pine
#

I looked at the dragons and magnezone and thought "oh, they're going for a dragmag core" then I look up and see trick room reuniclus and get caught so off guard 😂

vivid kraken
upper plume
upper plume
rain pine
#

You're joking

#

What does it do?

upper plume
#

Set up trick room and rip apart faster offense

rain pine
#

That's pretty cool actually. Guess you learn something new every day

upper plume
#

tr reun runs 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA with a Quiet nature

#

and a Life Orb

karmic geyserBOT
upper plume
#

it's actually a neat choice, and lets you run more wallbreakers on your team since it effectively acts as a cleaner

upper plume
#

anyway, here are my recommendations for this team:

  • Make your Reuniclus the same set in the link I just posted; this maximizes its coverage and power so that it has more immediate threatening power, while also giving it sufficient bulk to set up Trick Room.
  • Choice Band Kyurem-Black should run max Attack, max Speed with either an Adamant or Jolly nature. The lowest Speed I would let it go is 212 Speed EVs so that it outruns neutral Speed Excadrill and Timid Heatran. The moves can stay the same; Kyurem-B doesn't really click Ice Beam that often anyway.
  • Scarf Latios is a fine set, but considering you already have a great anti-offense option in TR Reun, Choice Specs is also a great option since it super threatens bulkier teams in conjunction with Kyurem.
  • Bisharp and Lucario aren't great options on DragMag, so we should replace them with options that synergize with this team better.
  • The first addition is Jirachi. Jirachi is the mon that your offensive Pokemon will fall back on in order to take attacks from opposing Dragons and Psychics. It also sets up Stealth Rock, and provides U-turn for your team in order to bring your threats in more easily. Icy Wind lets you beat Ground-types like Garchomp and Landorus-T, even if you don't run a Shuca Berrry. Icy Wind is better than HP Ice in this regard because Icy Wind will slow down the Ground-type for the second Icy Wind to hit.
#
  • The other addition is Starmie. Your team (and DragMag in general) is ABSURDLY weak to Mamoswine, whose Ground and Ice STABs threaten 3 of your 5 Pokemon super effectively (not to mention it smacks Reun and Kyu-B as well). Air Balloon Starmie gives you a way to check Mamoswine, while being a backup Ground immunity. It also can Rapid Spin, and is among the most dangerous Pokemon on the switch, thanks to Analytic.
  • Alternatively, if you are worried about a lack of damage output, I'd go with Yache SD Garchomp. It synergizes well with Kyurem-Black since they both attack with physical Dragon moves, and both particularly appreciate Magnezone removing Skarmory and Ferrothorn. You can run two Dragon moves on this set (I'd recommend Outrage and Dragon Claw or Dual Chop to beat Alakazam) since Dragon + Steel is such good coverage in BW. Yache Berry gives you room to take Mamoswine's Ice Shard, Starmie's Ice Beam, and HP Ice from Alakazam, Reuniclus, Thundurus-T, and Landorus-T.
tropic schooner
#

Icy wind also gets rid of random yache chomp or sash lando too

upper plume
#

also

#

@stable sonnet I saw you on the BW Forum and I figured you may want to join the BW Discord

karmic geyserBOT
upper plume
#

this link has it

tropic schooner
#

Oh is that cord alive?

upper plume
#

ye

tropic schooner
#

Thats nice to hear might join

#

Oh ye the dead one is orascord

upper plume
#

rip

gritty scaffold
tropic schooner
#

U usually icy wind the switch

upper plume
#

even without shuca

gritty scaffold
#

oh wow max attack even

upper plume
#

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Jirachi: 338-402 (83.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

#

it lives so long as the lando isn't +attack

#

but adamant landorus-t isn't usually lead off with

gritty scaffold
#

yea

stable sonnet
stable sonnet
#

Send the pokepaste link and the gen and tier

gritty scaffold
#

Dude this is old gens

stable sonnet
#

you should put this in SV OU rmt

stable sonnet
#

rate my team

#

so u see the channel rate my team

#

click on it

#

then you should see tiers under the search bar

#

click the first one on the left that says SV OU

#

and paste ur team there

upper plume
#

Also !pokepaste

#

!pokepaste

karmic geyserBOT
#

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1127497594126479460/pokepasteps.png

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1127497593610584074/pokepastelink.png

upper plume
stable sonnet
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @astral thistle, @short hedge, @surreal crypt, @upper plume. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

short hedge
#

the first 3 mon are fine

#

maybe go knock off > twave on ferrothorn

#

since u have gyro

#

I could see Sharpedo working but its probably not better then Gyarados (so I'll throw that as a soft suggestion)

#

I think Keldeo looks better then Celebi, or even Latios in this slot

#

Keldeo under rain provides solid defensive coverage

#

also hits like a brick

#

hp fire under rain isn't highly recommended

#

also what's conk's job on this team

#

@stable sonnet

stable sonnet
#

i was trying to look for mons to counter bulky sand and psyspam

stable sonnet
stable sonnet
#

Keld is a good suggestion but scarf and specs limits threatening ability on specific switch ins and you are stuck on one move

#

thats y i didnt want to use it

stable sonnet
#

and sharpedo is also there for cleaning up

stable sonnet
upper plume
#

Hoo boy is that team Uber weak to latios

stable sonnet
#

Gen 5 OU

gritty scaffold
#

i would recommend band mamo here and super power instead of sub also dont use honchcrow. id recommend use specs keldeo here and make that jirachi spdef imo

#

and why ur using hp fire rachi on rain

knotty stratus
#

SS OU

#

rate my team pls

onyx cairn
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @polar nacelle, @surreal crypt, @old iris, @leaden fiber. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

polar nacelle
#

Use a better celebi set

onyx cairn
polar nacelle
#

Yes

#

Just use one of the offensive sets on the smogon analysis

onyx cairn
polar nacelle
#

Its too difficult for me to evaluate at a glance to pick on movesets. But u should try to be stronger vs blissey

onyx cairn
polar nacelle
#

i also have a video of speedpassing to suicune

#

offense teambuilding guide can be found attached to this post

#

oh oops

#

one sec

onyx cairn
# polar nacelle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyJ85aWS_7M

I actually watched this just after building my team, I'm curious as to whether rest is still more useful than roar on suicune for my set given that I have heracross charizard that put alot of pressure on celebi (which from the video seems like the primary reason for the set)

onyx cairn
#

I've changed my own celebi to mirror yours as a reliable blissey check

polar nacelle
#

its easier if you read through my guide

onyx cairn
#

What I need realistically is understanding how to put it into practice

polar nacelle
#

let me pull up something

polar nacelle
onyx cairn
# polar nacelle

what do you mean by divide the matchup? Also in this specific context im trying to understand the relative value of different move and EV choices, which I'm not well equipped to do given a low understanding of specific interactions in the meta

polar nacelle
#

divide the matchup = u have to do well not just against the pokemon but also the surrounding cores

onyx cairn
#

I need less help in fundamental team structure as I do maximising individual outcomes

polar nacelle
#

in my slides there are some triangles of backbones

onyx cairn
polar nacelle
#

im sorry i cant be more helpful right now, it would take too much time. what i would suggest is to watch replays of sea and mana in this thread https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/callous-invitational-7-teams-replays-and-usage-statistics.3722746/ and see how the sequences flow

Smogon Forums
Tournaments - Callous Invitational 7 - Teams, Replays, and Usage St...

approved by johnnyg2
Callous Invitational 7 - Teams, Replays, and Usage Statistics

Callous Invitational Discord CALLOUS Narrates > Callous Invitational Overall Records

#

also let me dm u

polar nacelle
#

^ to update on the above, i have uploaded and updated offense guide found here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/adv-ou-teambuilding-strategy-archetypes-and-cores-a-data-driven-approach.3654874/post-9810020

Smogon Forums
Resource - ADV OU Teambuilding/Strategy: Archetypes and Cores -- A ...

For me, the lead pokemon isn't really important. What's important is that the lead pokemon has synergy with pokemon in reserve, so it can switch out almost for free. A lead zapdos is usually facing rockslide or ice beam from opposing lead tyranitars, and thus metagross is an acceptable switch...

kind shadow
#

This any good?

odd narwhal
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @cyan ether, @hasty ingot, @strong frigate, @upper plume. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upper plume
#

your team is extremely slow

#

plus electivire is just not that great in general

#

is chople on heatran for zam?

odd narwhal
#

Yes, for Zam and lead Fighting moves. The idea was to bait Electric type attacks, stack hazards to Whirlwind for chip damage for E-vire. Swampert walls my team without Will-O. Need a Scarfer as well.

upper plume
#

so a couple of things

#

starmie spins your hazards away

#

breloom is irritating for this team

#

especially poison heal

#

and defog gliscor removes hazards easily

#

which is kinda the problem with spikes (and more specifically skarmory) in bdsp; it takes more effort to set up spikes than to remove them

hasty ingot
#

Doesn’t rotom just beat this

upper plume
#

I think if you want to make a spikes team in bdsp, there are more pragmatic ways to do so instead of using lower-tier Pokes like Evire and Umbreon

#

oh yeah it does huh

#

yeah I was about to suggest roserade as the spiker

#

since it gets more opportunities vs opposing rotom

odd narwhal
#

Roserade lead and run Scarf Heatran?

#

Instead of Skarm and Chople Heatran?

upper plume
#

yeah

#

and an unaware clef as the stealth rocker

#

probably over evire since you already have rotom-w

#

azumarill also could run max speed instead of max hp

odd narwhal
#

Might have to scrap it then, built the team around E-vire. 😞😌 I have Unaware Clefable on another Offensive Pivot team, as well.

#

One sec-

upper plume
#

evire is just all hype

#

tbh

#

it's NU for good reason

cyan ether
#

yeah evire is what is known as bad

odd narwhal
#

😢 Almost done with another team.

upper plume
#

team looks decent

#

what is clef speed for?

odd narwhal
#

Creeping over opposing Clefable, using a final wish or netting a Moonblast kill. Stone Edge was for Togekiss and D-Nite, but could be Mach Punch/ThunderPunch.

upper plume
#

yeah honestly you're pretty fine vs Kiss and Nite

#

with scarf rotom and unaclef

odd narwhal
#

I could put Rocks on Clef instead of CM or Protect, likely CM (if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it). And put Aerial Ace on Gliscor instead *to hard counter Breloom.

upper plume
#

I think ape should run mach or tpunch here

mystic iris
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @polar nacelle, @surreal crypt, @old iris, @leaden fiber. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

odd narwhal
#

Wow, Gen 3 OU. 🏉🔙 Just before my trainer time, hadn’t turned 10. 😅

mystic iris
#

i wasnt alive lol

odd narwhal
upper plume
#

Rotom-W is good

odd narwhal
#

I’m considering throwing a Grass Poke/move in there! But this is team Infernape, not Breloom. Assault Vest in BDSP would see Guts Fighting types beat Rotom-W! 💫

gritty scaffold
kind shadow
#

Wdym?

#

Then Ig i will then