Old Gens OU | Smogon | Page 19

raw hornet Aug 19, 2023, 2:20 PM

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He doesnt hit as hard as other pokemon and he is slow

abstract flare Aug 19, 2023, 3:10 PM

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just got wiped by an areodactyl then a marowak

timid temple Aug 19, 2023, 5:22 PM

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https://pokepast.es/7ae2f778e2500b98

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Gen 3 OU

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I want to get high ladder, but this isn’t cutting

leaden fiber Aug 19, 2023, 5:22 PM

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whats ur idea here

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u use p2 to counter trap dugtrio

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usually because you have other pkmn in the back that dont like dugtrio

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(cm celebi, cm jirachi, cm raikou)

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idk, i generally don't see a team structure here to work w/

timid temple Aug 19, 2023, 5:35 PM

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leaden fiber whats ur idea here

I thought of using p2 to remove dugtrio, so Ttar and cross don’t get revenge killed

leaden fiber Aug 19, 2023, 5:35 PM

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u only really see p2 on teams w

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multiple cmers

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what u can do is

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if hera dies to aerial ace

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u can trap their dug with yours

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but like again, these aren't really structures

timid temple Aug 19, 2023, 5:38 PM

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I feel like I’m kind of just slapping stuff together, hoping it works

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And that won’t help me for sure :/

leaden fiber Aug 19, 2023, 5:39 PM

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yeah

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try using sample teams

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!gen3samples

karmic geyserBOT Aug 19, 2023, 5:39 PM

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ADV Sample Teams:
Ubers: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen3ubers
OU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen3ou
UU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen3uu
NU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen3nu
PU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen3pu
ZU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen3zu
LC: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen3lc
1v1: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen31v1

timid temple Aug 19, 2023, 5:40 PM

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I have tried TSS, which did me good

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Just felt like trying something else

leaden fiber Aug 19, 2023, 5:40 PM

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(personally i think tss is bad/mid)

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lol

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uh

burnt python Aug 19, 2023, 6:04 PM

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https://pokepast.es/c6e84077d3a1cd1e

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I noticed I need a ground type. I how no idea how I didn't think of that earlier.

leaden fiber Aug 19, 2023, 6:05 PM

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u dont, not really, but u do lose hard to zapdos

burnt python Aug 19, 2023, 6:05 PM

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Yep-

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I basically need a counter measure since winning against zapdos is a bad position knowing its common.

leaden fiber Aug 19, 2023, 6:06 PM

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uh

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azelf ofenses u dont

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need two scarfers

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like

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lati > cune

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er

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lati > luc

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specs or offensive cm

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a lot of issues r resolved

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and then i probably do espeed nite

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hmm

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im wondering also if u need overheat on tom

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probably ice is fine

burnt python Aug 19, 2023, 6:09 PM

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Jirachi is a common so yea it's pretty much needed as it walls lucario and stops its revenge killing.

leaden fiber Aug 19, 2023, 6:09 PM

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well u dont use tom to deal w rachi

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on this team both lumnite and skarm deal fairly well with it

burnt python Aug 19, 2023, 6:10 PM

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Yea good point.

leaden fiber Aug 19, 2023, 6:10 PM

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u can probably do like

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lo

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draco surf fire roost

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lati > lucario
And then imo ice on heattom, bc ddnite isnt an awesome mu here

burnt python Aug 19, 2023, 6:13 PM

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Mu?

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I'm sorry I'm basically new to reading textie type stuff.

leaden fiber Aug 19, 2023, 6:13 PM

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matchup

burnt python Aug 19, 2023, 6:27 PM

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Ok so what I'll do this see a comparison of results to see which team is more reliable, and the one I feel best works.

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I'll take the old team and new teams from your suggestions and let you know if they work or not.

brisk kite Aug 19, 2023, 7:35 PM

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https://pokepast.es/9047d5db71005e66

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gen 7 ou

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been a while since i touched it

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might post another team soon

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corrected a mistake

brisk kite Aug 19, 2023, 9:21 PM

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https://pokepast.es/a7ba27b53ea5dc07

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thoughts would be appreciated

leaden fiber Aug 19, 2023, 9:23 PM

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ill look at these later

brisk kite Aug 19, 2023, 9:23 PM

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ty

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btw, the weak point of both is probably ho

brisk kite Aug 19, 2023, 10:01 PM

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Actually ignore the first one

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It's bad

brisk kite Aug 19, 2023, 11:45 PM

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the second one is too

upper plume Aug 19, 2023, 11:48 PM

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That's the point of this channel

brisk kite Aug 20, 2023, 2:00 AM

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https://pokepast.es/3158542f100f33fa

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@leaden fiber wdyt

karmic geyserBOT Aug 20, 2023, 2:02 AM

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brisk kite Aug 20, 2023, 2:04 AM

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brisk kite https://pokepast.es/3158542f100f33fa

Anyway ping me whenever someone looks at this

karmic geyserBOT Aug 20, 2023, 2:28 AM

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karmic geyserBOT Aug 20, 2023, 2:44 AM

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upper plume Aug 20, 2023, 2:45 AM

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Whoever is spamming

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Please don't

silk sky Aug 20, 2023, 2:51 AM

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My fault im lookin

upper plume Aug 20, 2023, 2:55 AM

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These sample teams are a privilege

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Also you didn't need to look at SM teams twice in a row

burnt python Aug 20, 2023, 4:50 AM

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https://pokepast.es/72c4280f6430f38c ok I've done some major changes from the team from earlier and this one is working the best.

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Have been climbing the ladder very effectively.

upper plume Aug 20, 2023, 5:46 AM

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Tbh, Lucario doesn't really abuse Spikes well

raw hornet Aug 20, 2023, 6:15 AM

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brisk kite https://pokepast.es/a7ba27b53ea5dc07

Garchomp mega is bad in HO

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This team have ho pokemon but other weird pokemon like victini

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Or ferrothorn

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Ho teams have suicide lead and pokemon like kyu black or volcarona things like that yknow

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And hawlucha doesnt need roost it needs stone edge

brisk kite Aug 20, 2023, 8:14 AM

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That's a team I told not to worry about cuz it's bad

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Look at the one after

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https://pokepast.es/3158542f100f33fa

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This one

oak steeple Aug 20, 2023, 12:37 PM

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Hey does any1 have a suicine team for bw ou for thie pokemon game that only allows suicine as the only legendary

gritty scaffold Aug 20, 2023, 12:47 PM

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What?

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We dont discuss non smogon stuff here

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suicune sucks in bw ou

upper plume Aug 20, 2023, 12:58 PM

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^

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Plus that really isn't the point of this channel

oak steeple Aug 20, 2023, 1:10 PM

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gritty scaffold + suicune sucks in bw ou

So u wouldnt use suicine?

oak steeple Aug 20, 2023, 1:10 PM

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upper plume Plus that really isn't the point of this channel

Well where do i ask these questions

upper plume Aug 20, 2023, 1:10 PM

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#comp-general #comp-general-2

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This is for evaluating/improving already completed teams

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But yeah Suicune is bad in BW OU and doesn't get used

oak steeple Aug 20, 2023, 1:11 PM

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Alrighty

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Thanks

brisk kite Aug 20, 2023, 9:56 PM

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https://pokepast.es/dbdcfc4da2ba278a

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Mega Zor and friends

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 2:48 AM

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brisk kite https://pokepast.es/dbdcfc4da2ba278a

you dont need av mage here cause msciz + spdef heatran covers the psychics + fairies. i'd replace it with a bulky water, either fini or pex since both also deals with agren too, and gives you your water resist in general.

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i think uturn msciz here is better cause it pairs well with z chomp, pivoting it in on mons like heatran, pex, and zapdos. also i personally dont like superpower sets with 0 speed investment cause you still lose to zone anyways, so might as well be a utility bot early game before you can click sd and win lategame

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:09 AM

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Bulky waters don't have vswitch or turn typically tho :/

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:12 AM

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uturn on tornt & msciz is generally enough

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:12 AM

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Hmm

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:12 AM

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or if you want it that much you can run eject button on pex

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:12 AM

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True

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Doesn't not having superpower hinder zor's late game capabilities

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Also isn't the psyspam mu pretty bad

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:14 AM

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you have spdef heatran + msciz

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:14 AM

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Idk if that's enough

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Focus blast and HP fire are common

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:15 AM

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hence heatran and msciz, which covers both coverage

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:16 AM

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Hmm

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:16 AM

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i mean if you still wanna keep av mage then it's all up to you, i'm just here suggesting changes that i think could improve the team

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:16 AM

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Do you recommend speed investment and superpower here, or the opposite

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:16 AM

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uturn

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:16 AM

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I see

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:17 AM

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brisk kite Doesn't not having superpower hinder zor's late game capabilities

Oh you didn't answer this btw

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Since u turn forces you out

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You only have 1 actual attack for late game

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To clean I mean

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:18 AM

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not really, the way i see it msciz provides the defensive value + utility that can potentially clean late game

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you have agren to clean too so it's not like you're only overrelying on msciz as your sole wincon

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no scarfer is pretty mehh but i think agren and double prio should be fine

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:20 AM

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Psyspam is an issue, again

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Cause both prios are irrelevant

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:20 AM

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again

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:20 AM

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And they alr tend to be quite fast

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:21 AM

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well av mage doesnt help either

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with the speed issue

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psyspam is generally known to be tough anyways, and not all team can afford double steel like yours

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:22 AM

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Hmm

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Is Scarf Washtom a good fit here

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Iirc it at least creeps lele

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...well, specs lele

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Idk if it can handle the onslaught of agren tho

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:24 AM

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hence, bulky water forsenY

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:25 AM

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I thought Washtom qualified

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As a bulky water

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I guess scarftom doesn't count

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:25 AM

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in this context, a bulky water that checks agren

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thats why i recommend fini or pex

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:26 AM

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Hmm

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Actually

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Bulu also checks it iirc

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And it's also my water resist

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Is there a reason it has to be water

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(I'm talking about AV Bulu)

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:27 AM

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more fire resist for msciz in general

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av bulu is an unset in current sm, run spdef sd if you want

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:28 AM

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Why is it not good

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:29 AM

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but atp i'd rather run that garchomp + agren + bulu + mmaw + heatran + tornt team

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:29 AM

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I see

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:30 AM

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too passive without any setup move and missing out on synthesis or protect is pretty awful

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:30 AM

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Hmm, maybe I'll add fini and drop toxic for protect on tran

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I'll decide on the set in a bit

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:30 AM

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i personally prefer protect on bulu builds

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you can still run toxic on fini builds btw

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cause a lot of mons you toxic like rotomw and mlati still gets affected by it

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:31 AM

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Hm

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:31 AM

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but ye those are pretty minor

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so shouldnt be too big of an issue

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:31 AM

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If it was a bulu build

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Protect 100%

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Actually might run protect here to scout choice leles

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:32 AM

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if you dont need stuff like rocks or taunt or whatever then ye protect is a nice slot if you can afford it

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:35 AM

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Meant over toxic

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As Washtom and m latis

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I'm not confident are enough to warrant toxic

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:39 AM

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toxicing rotomw helps msciz but ye your call

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:45 AM

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hmm, fair point

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@vast oracle what set do i run on fini since torn t already defogs

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or do i run defog fini and sth else on torn

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:46 AM

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brisk kite or do i run defog fini and sth else on torn

this is fine too

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or you run trapper fini

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honestly bulu is also okay actually

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:47 AM

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vast oracle but atp i'd rather run that garchomp + agren + bulu + mmaw + heatran + tornt tea...

it's literally just this team but with msciz over mmaw lol

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:47 AM

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vast oracle honestly bulu is also okay actually

spd bulu with sd

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?

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what made you change your mind

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hmm

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i just discovered trap fini is a thing lmao

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:50 AM

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brisk kite what made you change your mind

mpert, and grassy terrain with heatran is always nice to make it live forever

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though msciz is kinda okay enough for the mpert matchup

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and bulu making opposing pex take less from your chomp's eq is awful when you need to pressure it for agren and msciz

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cause with mmaw you can brute force past pex in general

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:51 AM

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yeah that's true

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:52 AM

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yeah fini and pex i think

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either or is okay

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:52 AM

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hmm

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fini stops my team from being wisped or toxiced

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pex forms a regen core

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:52 AM

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misty terrain lets your chomp hard switch into pex too

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:53 AM

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true

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:53 AM

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i.e. you dont need voltturn to let them in safely

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:54 AM

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what is a good fourth move on torn

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:54 AM

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are you going defog-less or

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:55 AM

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yeah assuming defogless

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i'm considering my options

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:56 AM

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taunt

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i personally find it meh but some defensive torn-t run heat wave too

half frost Aug 21, 2023, 9:56 AM

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Should i use lum berry on politoed? Because damn status effects are brutal in gen 5 messi

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:56 AM

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vast oracle i personally find it meh but some defensive torn-t run heat wave too

does my team have a bad mu against zor or kart

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especially kart

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since it's the most popular scarfer

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and resists both of my priorities

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:57 AM

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are you saying you're scared of scarf kart or kart in general

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cause scarf kart can never break msciz

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:57 AM

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true

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:58 AM

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if it's like sd, then msciz can always switch into it and slow uturn into your revenge killers

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:58 AM

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can i realistically stop sd kart from getting a kill

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:59 AM

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ye

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you have both torn-t and msciz, which are like some of the best kart switchins

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 9:59 AM

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fair

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 9:59 AM

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they have to z giga on the switch to have a chance of OHKOing tornt

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:00 AM

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the zor mirror

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well i have heatran for one

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torn t helps too

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 10:00 AM

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especially if you run pex

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:01 AM

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hmm

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actually

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if i were to run pex

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which set would i run

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 10:01 AM

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just standard pex

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:01 AM

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...i'm saying that as if 3/4 moves aren't predetermined

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hmm

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toxic, tspikes or baneful bunker

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eash have their merits

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 10:05 AM

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tspikes is generally on fatter teams where their wincons are bulky mons like mlati reuni

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:06 AM

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i mean

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this team is fairly fat too

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though idk if i'd qualify it as balance or BO

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 10:07 AM

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Nah i mean fat fat

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Like gliscor chansey type builds

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:07 AM

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oh

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really fat huh

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 10:07 AM

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Ye, yours is BO

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:07 AM

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regardless, it's not the best idea to go for a hazard stack here

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hmm

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 10:08 AM

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Toxic or bunker is fine

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:08 AM

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i feel like i'll either

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 10:08 AM

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I prefer toxic personally

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:08 AM

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do toxic here and protect on tran

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or the opposite

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 10:08 AM

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Helps with the zardx matchup too

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Honestly running tspikes here is not too bad either

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:10 AM

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you don't want to run hazard stack with defog tho

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am i wrong

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hazard stack usually runs spin or nothing

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 10:11 AM

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It’s okay, and in general your team’s strategy isnt solely revolving around hazard stacking either

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Very different from mlati reuni clef gliscor skarm builds

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That can trade spikes and never need to have defog

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:13 AM

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hmm

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baneful is cool

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but it makes pex more passive

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i think the alternatives are better

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now the question is toxic vs tspikes

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just so we're clear

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spd washtom with pain split

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isn't enough to handle gren

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right ?

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252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 204+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 118-141 (38.9 - 46.5%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

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yeah this is anything but reliable

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 10:36 AM

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vast oracle Helps with the zardx matchup too

Go toxic then for this

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Some even run double poison by dropping haze/recover but it’s hyper specific and i don’t recommend it in general

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:40 AM

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admittedly my team doesn't have a good zardx mu

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this helps a fair bit

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hmm

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now this may sound dumb

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but i feel like i might want protect on heatran now

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cause i have nothing to scout choice locks atm

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 10:43 AM

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Ye that’s fine

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I would generally be opposed to it cause you’re running magma and bulu-less but since you dont have to run rocks then it should be okay

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:44 AM

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oh

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regardless it's either toxic or protect

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cause i don't need rocks on it

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 10:45 AM

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Your preference

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 10:45 AM

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aight thanks

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https://pokepast.es/53b367303840458a

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@vast oracle

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any final thoughts ?

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:00 AM

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yeah looks fine

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if you still want the pivot option you can consider eject button on pex

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:00 AM

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might actually

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go back to fini

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cause the zard x mu

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is really bad

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:01 AM

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and if the rotomw matchup becomes annoying, consider toxic on the heatran again, helps msciz tornt and to some extent chomp too

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:03 AM

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vast oracle and if the rotomw matchup becomes annoying, consider toxic on the heatran again,...

true

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hmm

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:04 AM

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brisk kite is really bad

it's not as bad as you make it out to be. sd z chomp is a very good rocker, which means you can almost guarantee that zardx will not be healthy when it switches in. if it's dd+3a, then between flare blitz recoil + agren shuriken then zardx can be stopped from sweeping. if it's eq, then chomp and pex takes +1. if dclaw (or outrage i guess) then heatran handles it, esp if you're toxic.
fini doesnt help the zardx matchup either

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:05 AM

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pex gets slapped by eq

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:05 AM

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lives +1

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:05 AM

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and then...?

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:06 AM

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you click toxic?

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and then pivot around

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:06 AM

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fair

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now what happens with fini

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:07 AM

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you prob click taunt on the +2 zardx

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:14 AM

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is pex

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still manageable if i go with bulu

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nvm it's weak to fblitz

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:18 AM

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heatran in grassy terrain can take +1 eq and click toxic back if it comes to it but ye

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:19 AM

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pex taking up to 88% from +1 eq is

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not great

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:19 AM

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it's just one of those matchups where you have room to outplay in the game itself

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:20 AM

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vast oracle 1. it's not as bad as you make it out to be. sd z chomp is a very good rocker, w...

again, read point 1

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:20 AM

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i mean

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3a runs all three attacks

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fblitz

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dclaw/outrage

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and eq

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:20 AM

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i'm well aware of what 3a it runs

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i'm saying if it isnt roost it'll be low hp

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between rocks + fblitz recoil

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:21 AM

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oh

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i see

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:21 AM

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that agren water shuriken can pick it off

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:23 AM

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scouting's gonna be a pain

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but it does seem doable

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:23 AM

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funny thing is you're so scared of the zardx matchup but you had av mage earlier, which is even worse into it 😭

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:23 AM

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lmao

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true

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hmm

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i can't let my chomp get chipped in that mu tho

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otherwise dd roost fblitz eq

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is gonna be painful

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:25 AM

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yup

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:26 AM

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maybe

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i should put my rocks on tran instead / as well

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the reason being if i try to maintain rocks, chomp will probably get chipped

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:27 AM

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nah not necssary

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but if you wanna do it then go ahead

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:28 AM

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well if i don't

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imma have trouble keeping rocks up and keeping chomp healthy

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@vast oracle is heatran enough to handle the pex

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or do i really need chomp to handle it too

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 11:41 AM

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knock tornt + agren spikes help too

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 11:42 AM

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true

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i think i'll just go with my gut and use bulu

raw hornet Aug 21, 2023, 12:03 PM

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brisk kite https://pokepast.es/3158542f100f33fa

Yeah but this one is worse

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:04 PM

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fair

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https://pokepast.es/dbe6a19d3abf24e0

#

@vast oracle

raw hornet Aug 21, 2023, 12:06 PM

#

Z heal bell mag heatran z grass can be used here ?

#

Cuz theres grassy terrain

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 12:07 PM

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brisk kite https://pokepast.es/dbe6a19d3abf24e0

i prefer the pex but this is alright

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 12:07 PM

#

raw hornet Z heal bell mag heatran z grass can be used here ?

possible but not necessary

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:08 PM

#

tran has to be able to trap pex efficiently

#

so magma storm ep and taunt are important

raw hornet Aug 21, 2023, 12:08 PM

#

Taunt ?

#

Why taunt a pex

#

He doesnt do anything to you

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:08 PM

#

...cause they carry recover ?

raw hornet Aug 21, 2023, 12:08 PM

#

Oh yeah lol i forgot mb

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:09 PM

#

it's 16 pp in this gen too

raw hornet Aug 21, 2023, 12:09 PM

#

Ye

#

Oh wait if you have grassy terrain active you can 2hko pex with ep and bloom doom

#

Yeah anyway defensive heatran is probably better here

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:11 PM

#

oh i replaced toxic with tect btw

raw hornet Aug 21, 2023, 12:13 PM

#

What you could do instead

#

Is remove sr

#

And put protect

#

If you need it

#

Cuz your chomp have sr

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:14 PM

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oh there is no sr on tran

raw hornet Aug 21, 2023, 12:14 PM

#

Oh yeah theres taunt

#

Yeah i guess you could remove toxic

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:14 PM

#

it's magma storm ep taunt and toxic / protect

#

haven't decided yet

raw hornet Aug 21, 2023, 12:14 PM

#

Probably toxic

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:15 PM

#

probably gonna go back with toxic yeah, washtom is annoying

#

@vast oracle was the other team you mentioned the exact same apart from m wile

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 12:22 PM

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nah

#

z outrage garchomp + rocks tran

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:22 PM

#

i see

#

hmm

#

would you say m wile fits better than m zor

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 12:23 PM

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if it's the one with bulu then ye i prefer the mmaw

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:23 PM

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i see, ty

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 12:23 PM

#

np!

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:24 PM

#

can you send the link to that team please

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 12:26 PM

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https://pokepast.es/f9770f020942e4fc

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:28 PM

#

ty

#

btw quick question

#

is it worth running stomping tantrum on chomp

#

over eq

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 12:29 PM

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sd still wants to run eq, cause it still hits pretty hard at +2

#

stomping tantrum is if you run tankchomp

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:31 PM

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vast oracle sd still wants to run eq, cause it still hits pretty hard at +2

Assuming grassy isn't up right

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 12:31 PM

#

even if it's up

#

plus you dont always get to have terrain

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:32 PM

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True

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Ty for the help

#

Imma try the team as is for now

#

And if it lacks punch

#

I'll use m wile instead

raw hornet Aug 21, 2023, 12:35 PM

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Guys ive seen on the viability ranking from skypenguin that porygon z with z hyper beam is pretty strong

#

He also said that moltres is dangerous with z hurricane set

#

That aerodactyl mega is very good against ho

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Or that mega sharpedo is insanely strong

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 12:45 PM

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If you wanna discuss sm ou, do it in compgen please. This channel is for rating teams

raw hornet Aug 21, 2023, 12:45 PM

#

Okay sorry

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 12:51 PM

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@vast oracle why do you think wile is better in this kind of team

vast oracle Aug 21, 2023, 12:59 PM

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Just the standard mmaw + agren core

brisk kite Aug 21, 2023, 1:03 PM

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Hmm

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If I were to run wile

#

Is rocks chomp + pex killer tran still a good idea

#

Compared to the paste

#

Also is wile more helpful in the psyspam mu than zor

#

@vast oracle

#

To be fair spd Bulu is pretty good in that mu

atomic pike Aug 21, 2023, 3:36 PM

#

https://pokepast.es/22b962ac10f49558

#

funny gen 4 drag mag, tell me if im doing anything wrong

gritty scaffold Aug 21, 2023, 5:15 PM

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Dindt knew dpp has dragmag aswell thought was only a gen 5 thing

burnt python Aug 21, 2023, 8:34 PM

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gritty scaffold Dindt knew dpp has dragmag aswell thought was only a gen 5 thing

It is, it's just more prevalent in gen 5

atomic pike Aug 22, 2023, 7:49 PM

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gritty scaffold Dindt knew dpp has dragmag aswell thought was only a gen 5 thing

Yeah but its in gen 4. Making it really funny

torn nimbus Aug 22, 2023, 11:14 PM

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https://pokepast.es/ef2607b1bc38c338 tried making TSS as someone who's new to gen 3 ou

karmic geyserBOT Aug 22, 2023, 11:14 PM

#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @polar nacelle, @surreal crypt, @old iris, @leaden fiber. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

vale lagoon Aug 23, 2023, 3:17 AM

#

https://pokepast.es/c12f33f6da01ae38 gen7ou

karmic geyserBOT Aug 23, 2023, 3:17 AM

#

New OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

vale lagoon Aug 23, 2023, 3:17 AM

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Was aiming to make an Ash-Greninja BO team

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 3:17 AM

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https://pokepast.es/81f75bfca944c647 gen 5 OU voltturn Terrakion sand, definite room for improvement just curious to see thoughts. Played this on the ladder for a while as a bulky offense team which is my preffered style, did pretty well but new to gen 5 in general

karmic geyserBOT Aug 23, 2023, 3:17 AM

#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @astral thistle, @short hedge, @surreal crypt, @upper plume. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

vale lagoon Aug 23, 2023, 3:18 AM

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vale lagoon Was aiming to make an Ash-Greninja BO team

Kinda doubting scizor's placement here though, I just needed another pivot user

#

but maybe Tapu Koko or someone else could work

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 3:25 AM

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vale lagoon Kinda doubting scizor's placement here though, I just needed another pivot user

I haven't played gen 7 since it was the current gen, but double mega isn't great because regular (defensive) scissor with no item is dead weight, you could slot in koko or torn with defog to give your lando a free slot for rocks, hp ice

vale lagoon Aug 23, 2023, 3:25 AM

#

Oh yeah I completely forgot about the double mega

#

Yeah I could try Koko or tornadus then

leaden fiber Aug 23, 2023, 3:26 AM

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torn nimbus https://pokepast.es/ef2607b1bc38c338 tried making TSS as someone who's new to ge...

structure generally looks ok

#

you're soft into things like

#

gengar and swampert

#

try offensive celebi > starmie

#

celebi also helps u break down opposing skarmbliss cores

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 3:27 AM

#

vale lagoon Yeah I could try Koko or tornadus then

its hard to go wrong with koko + ash gren but torn t gives more longevity and utility, so really depends on playstyle, I say try both

vale lagoon Aug 23, 2023, 3:28 AM

#

alrighty

leaden fiber Aug 23, 2023, 3:28 AM

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as for set changes, i would do either 4 atks tar + agility metagross or lefties meta + fast ddtar

#

either works decently

torn nimbus Aug 23, 2023, 4:11 AM

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leaden fiber try offensive celebi > starmie

i'll look into that

torn nimbus Aug 23, 2023, 4:11 AM

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leaden fiber as for set changes, i would do either 4 atks tar + agility metagross or lefties ...

gotcha

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i was also thinking about running defensive gengar and rest zapdos over starmie and metagross

torn nimbus Aug 23, 2023, 4:49 AM

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starmie generally has been very dissapointing

upper plume Aug 23, 2023, 5:32 AM

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crisp saffron https://pokepast.es/81f75bfca944c647 gen 5 OU voltturn Terrakion sand, definite ...

are rotom ev's for extra cloyster insurance or for something else?

#

also lowkey ferrothorn can set up hazards against you and you will get worn down very quickly

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 5:36 AM

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upper plume are rotom ev's for extra cloyster insurance or for something else?

Well I took the spread from a sample team, it must do something blobthonkeng

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 5:37 AM

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upper plume also lowkey ferrothorn can set up hazards against you and you will get worn down...

I’ve been dealing with fero by going scissor or terak on knock offs, but yea hazards will go up against this team

upper plume Aug 23, 2023, 5:38 AM

#

rotom seems to be using physdef on a ground spam team

#

a team that is evidently otherwise very weak to cloyster

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 5:39 AM

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Well I figured phys def rotom would patch up my weakness to scissor, scarf chomp, etc, my instinct was to go max max

upper plume Aug 23, 2023, 5:39 AM

#

oh wait that's just the sample set

#

nvm

#

I'm more used to seeing spdef rotom but yeah physdef works better on this team

#

also your best play into volc is to trade damage into rak to kill it

#

if you stone edge then they get to set up w/ breloom

#

make sure you're prepared for those scenarios vs hyper offense teams

#

if you have a game plan going in then you should be good

#

you kinda have to sack vs kyurem-black but that's nothing new tbh

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 5:41 AM

#

I agree, I went double priority for maximum contingencies into HO but ultimately I just have to deny free turns to the best of my ability vs it

#

Celebii actually does a lot better than I thought as a rocker I took inspiration from the ground spam team

upper plume Aug 23, 2023, 5:43 AM

#

I think this team would struggle the most vs psyspam, since rak doesn't come in easily and you don't have the best insurance vs alakazam

#

but w/ scizor, scarf lando and tar you should be fine

#

a personal preference of mine is twave last on tyranitar

#

actually you kinda struggle to break through defensive lando

#

cuz rotom will get u-turned on

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 5:46 AM

#

upper plume a personal preference of mine is twave last on tyranitar

That’s a good idea, I kept rock slide mostly in fear of Volc, but t wave will probably be better in most cases

upper plume Aug 23, 2023, 5:47 AM

#

team is already pretty solid tbh

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 5:47 AM

#

upper plume I think this team would struggle the most vs psyspam, since rak doesn't come in ...

Yea I should have some replays vs psyspam on the ladder I can post them in the morning if you’re curious, like you said scarf lando with uturn and scissor, once zams sash gets broken I’ve been able to deal with it

upper plume Aug 23, 2023, 5:47 AM

#

idt that's necessary

#

this is kinda similar to the kind of sand teams I would build

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 5:48 AM

#

upper plume actually you kinda struggle to break through defensive lando

Gotta get rocks up and limit, hopefully scissor + terak is too much for it to stave off easily

#

Thanks for all the feedback

upper plume Aug 23, 2023, 5:49 AM

#

I will say

#

you should put a bit of spdef into zor

#

since it's your dragon + psychic resist

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 5:50 AM

#

upper plume you should put a bit of spdef into zor

That’s a good idea, I’ll look at the calculator to see if I can take some out of HP and into spdef to make it more optimal

upper plume Aug 23, 2023, 5:50 AM

#

I agree

#

good luck!

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 5:50 AM

#

Thanks 🙂

upper plume Aug 23, 2023, 1:14 PM

#

Ik this is like 7 hrs later

#

But Jirachi > Scizor could also work

#

But I guess your team would rather have the offense vs opposing Terrakion

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 6:31 PM

#

hmm, that definitely compounds my ferrothorn weakness

#

but it gives the team a lot more longevity

#

I could slap hp fire on celebii and move rocks to the rachi slot?

crisp saffron Aug 23, 2023, 6:50 PM

#

crisp saffron hmm, that definitely compounds my ferrothorn weakness

Could even think about forretress in that slot, give spikes support, pivot with volt switch, could get opportunities to spin (maybe not, it’s still a foretress and I’d lose an offensive threat and priority)

#

I’ll test out rachi later and see how it performs

crisp saffron Aug 24, 2023, 12:10 AM

#

crisp saffron I’ll test out rachi later and see how it performs

with testing tbh I like the original comp more, gotta play it to get terrak in against sand and rain and play the sack game against HO, I think this team is really fun, also put like 104 spdef evs into scissor just to help with some calcs

vale lagoon Aug 24, 2023, 1:21 AM

#

Adjusted my Ash-Greninja BO team, thoughts?

#

https://pokepast.es/2722b53f3dcd5275 gen7ou

karmic geyserBOT Aug 24, 2023, 1:21 AM

#

New OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

vast oracle Aug 24, 2023, 3:15 AM

#

(sry for ghost ping, will take a look at the team in a bit)

vast oracle Aug 24, 2023, 4:17 AM

#

vale lagoon https://pokepast.es/2722b53f3dcd5275 gen7ou

rotom-w over torn-t, gives you a pivot and defogger too but switches into heatran better, improves matchup against mons like zardx, volc, and victini (esp if you run twave and/or z hydro), or can lure in pex for agren too with z thunder. gives you an ice resist in general too against weav, kyub, and protgren, and alongside ferro helps you deal with rain. you lose your kart check but between choiced sets not being able to freely lock into 1 move and having agren to revenge sd sets i think it's a fine trade. also just a classic pairing with lando + ferro
cleric clef is way too passive here. if you still want clef, i'd run a more offensive variant like cmlo or lo+3a cause it pressures bulky msab teams that agren + mmedi struggles with and works well with spikes in general. either sets can still run significant defensive investment too if you want, so you can still tank hits from mons like hawlucha, mmedi, scarf kart, etc.
minor changes:
tpunch mmedi is only worth it on koko teams (even then, they drop zen for it). change it to ice punch, lets you nail landot, tornt, and mlati twins
knock over one of ferro's stabs to cripple switchins like heatran and opposing ferro, which helps clef and agren, respectively

I dislike the lack of scarfers here (i'd personally make it scarf lando + rocks ferro + spikes agren) but if you think agren & double prio is enough speed control then it's fine i guess

vale lagoon Aug 24, 2023, 4:39 AM

#

vast oracle - rotom-w over torn-t, gives you a pivot and defogger too but switches into heat...

Alrighty, thanks! Would this be the right set for a more aggressive Clefable?

#

Grabbing the set rq

#

Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature

Moonblast
Thunderbolt
Fire Blast
Soft-Boiled

vast oracle Aug 24, 2023, 4:40 AM

#

yea, can also run like bold with defensive investment too

vale lagoon Aug 24, 2023, 4:40 AM

#

Alrighty

vast oracle Aug 24, 2023, 4:40 AM

#

if max spa modest consider going thunder

#

252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 156-185 (51.3 - 60.8%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

#

flamethrower is also a fine alternative over blast

vale lagoon Aug 24, 2023, 4:41 AM

#

Alrighty

#

I did 200 SPA, and 52+ defense if that’s good

vast oracle Aug 24, 2023, 4:42 AM

#

uh as long as it hits a certain benchmark then it's prob fine

vast oracle Aug 24, 2023, 4:43 AM

#

vale lagoon I did 200 SPA, and 52+ defense if that’s good

also if you're doing that, go with modest to get more stats (clef has more spa than def)

vale lagoon Aug 24, 2023, 4:43 AM

#

Alrighty

#

Thanks!

half frost Aug 24, 2023, 11:52 PM

#

https://pokepast.es/747e2e3d964735ae

#

Gen 5 Sand Team

visual vault Aug 25, 2023, 3:04 AM

#

Gen 3 https://pokepast.es/cc494907fe7773fb
why does band claydol work

karmic geyserBOT Aug 25, 2023, 3:04 AM

#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @polar nacelle, @surreal crypt, @old iris, @leaden fiber. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

gritty scaffold Aug 25, 2023, 9:15 AM

#

half frost https://pokepast.es/747e2e3d964735ae

Dont use life orb zam bc is easy to revenge kill , keld specs isnt good in sand and id consider putting using ferro over keld

half frost Aug 26, 2023, 1:12 AM

#

gritty scaffold Dont use life orb zam bc is easy to revenge kill , keld specs isnt good in sand ...

Thanks

half frost Aug 26, 2023, 2:25 AM

#

I'm thinking of using adamant nature + choice band scizor with the technician ability and bullet punch

upper plume Aug 26, 2023, 3:18 AM

#

Cb zor kinda bad too

#

Just gets worn down by hazards and thuds into rain too easily

#

Which the rest of your team doesn't help with

#

Also lowkey I don't like EQ tar

#

You should have Superpower in that slot

#

Ur Lando is kinda ok?

#

I'd go Superpower/HP Ice > U-turn

#

You also need a more solid Keldeo check cuz Latios gets worn down and Keld threatens 4 or 5 mons on ur team

#

Also Agility Thundy just 6-0's

#

Yeah looking at the set, Smack Down Landorus-T runs Substitute > Swords Dance and Leftovers

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 3:49 AM

#

visual vault Gen 3 https://pokepast.es/cc494907fe7773fb why does band claydol work

this team doesn't operate succesfully into any common build

#

ie

visual vault Aug 26, 2023, 3:50 AM

#

leaden fiber this team doesn't operate succesfully into any common build

Been pretty successful for me so far

#

I need to think of a Gengar counter thou

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 3:50 AM

#

you have plenty

#

however

#

you lack a real check to

#

real things

#

like metagross

#

counter aggron is not a metagross counter

#

pert barely

#

cb claydol kind of kills the point of claydol

#

you immediately lose to charizard if it clicks substitue

#

i could go on and on

#

and note that im only listening individual pokemon

#

nevermind actual team structures

visual vault Aug 26, 2023, 3:52 AM

#

leaden fiber cb claydol kind of kills the point of claydol

It's a good counter to basically any earthquake user

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 3:52 AM

#

so is regular claydol

#

and regular claydol can actually damage salamence without explosion

#

👍

visual vault Aug 26, 2023, 3:53 AM

#

Damage

#

Not OHKO

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 3:53 AM

#

u don't need claydol to do damage

#

u just need it

visual vault Aug 26, 2023, 3:53 AM

#

It's unexpected though

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 3:53 AM

#

to 2hko ttar with eq

#

so

#

unexpected doesn't make it good against anybody above like 1200 on ladder

visual vault Aug 26, 2023, 3:53 AM

#

So people switch into something like swampart to counter

#

Then kaboom

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 3:54 AM

#

regular claydol explodes on swampert just fine

#

esp bc

#

once people see no lefties

#

it's not that hard of a logical jump to say choice band

#

especially if they are able to put in stuff into the damage calc

#

lol

#

also like

#

dol likes having longevity

#

so that it can get off spikes more then once as necessary

#

im not going to force you to change anything but personally if I were aiming to get better i would grab a team from a spl dump or one of the better sample teams

#

if you want me to point out what i think are good sample teams to use let me know

visual vault Aug 26, 2023, 3:57 AM

#

Also the counter aggron is mainly for opponent swampart

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 3:57 AM

#

i think you could make

#

the unexpected shit work

#

if you didn't try to

#

put all six mons

#

on the same team

#

like, five standard + one maybe not as standard

#

that could work

visual vault Aug 26, 2023, 3:57 AM

#

And basically any earthquake user who didnt invest into attack

#

Also I think the mag and the swampert are pretty standard

#

Minus the metal sound and facade

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 3:58 AM

#

magneton usually runs

#

tbolt

#

and a status (twave, toxic)

#

swampert usually ev's differently if its doing a curse set

#

curse sets also

#

like, they kind of need earthquake

#

cuz that's the entire point of curse swampert

#

also note that

#

boosted facade (70 x 2) base power is still less then STAB earthquake (100 x 1.5) base power

#

and that means you have to be toxic'd / burned

#

neither of which is something pert likes to be taking

visual vault Aug 26, 2023, 4:00 AM

#

Facade actually is double if the opponent is effected by status

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 4:00 AM

#

Yeah

#

70 x 2 = 140

#

100 x 1.5 = 150

#

earthquake is still stronger

#

and you have ice beam / hydro for birds

visual vault Aug 26, 2023, 4:01 AM

#

I see

#

The only thing I've been struggling with is Gengar

#

I usually just spam ice beam and hope for the freeze chance if I see him

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 4:03 AM

#

Yea, but i think team generally needs restructure lol

visual vault Aug 26, 2023, 4:07 AM

#

Perhaps

#

I just like using all of them

inner tinsel Aug 26, 2023, 10:22 AM

#

Any glaring weaknesses? (Gen 5 OU)
https://pokepast.es/87e8e1efbc399068

gritty scaffold Aug 26, 2023, 10:53 AM

#

i wouldnt recommend specs keldeo in sand bc you dont get the same power as rain would , ebelt latios isnt that great either, ttar lefties isnt that great to check the psy mons , id say this team is very weak to alot of scarfers like mence , chomp etc. this team just feels a bit weak vs ho and rain aswell

inner tinsel Aug 26, 2023, 11:06 AM

#

gritty scaffold i wouldnt recommend specs keldeo in sand bc you dont get the same power as rain ...

Are there certain things that can solve that or would you suggest scraping it

gritty scaffold Aug 26, 2023, 11:10 AM

#

prob scrap it id recommend just using the sets from analysis stuff when u are new

#

i just realized the team alsso doesnt have spinner

manic bridge Aug 26, 2023, 11:16 AM

#

Hi, new to competetive. I created a team for OU4 with massive help of smogon guide. Please reccomend some imporvements. https://pokepast.es/1282f751e1d392e1

torn nimbus Aug 26, 2023, 4:48 PM

#

leaden fiber try offensive celebi > starmie

this has worked pretty well btw thanks

topaz sentinel Aug 26, 2023, 5:17 PM

#

https://pokepast.es/dbf81d8ecae51c39 can I get this gen 3 ou team ranked

karmic geyserBOT Aug 26, 2023, 5:17 PM

#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @polar nacelle, @surreal crypt, @old iris, @leaden fiber. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 5:17 PM

#

It's a sample team

#

souh

#

no?

topaz sentinel Aug 26, 2023, 5:17 PM

#

I made slight changes

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 5:18 PM

#

Ah

#

no actually u didnt this is the exact same

topaz sentinel Aug 26, 2023, 5:18 PM

#

I’m trying to use gengar and Jolteon on the same team cuz I like them both, but if u need me to completely replace certain mons that be great

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 5:18 PM

#

this team is fine

#

probably cuz it's a sample team

#

👍

topaz sentinel Aug 26, 2023, 5:19 PM

#

Really the sample team has like focus punch tyranitar

#

And choice band metagross and starmie instead of swampert

#

Is there a diff swampert set I can run w out focus punch that’s good? And can Salamance take the spot of anyone here

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 5:20 PM

#

nope this is the sample

#

and uh

#

i wouldnt modify

#

most sample teams

#

they are that way for a reason

#

oh

#

u might've pasted the wrong team

topaz sentinel Aug 26, 2023, 5:21 PM

#

I may have just took sample sets from smog on and pasted them in

#

So what does it mean that I pasted wrong team what do I do

leaden fiber Aug 26, 2023, 5:25 PM

#

u pasted the sample

#

i dont know if that was ur intention

#

as in

#

i dont see ur modifications

topaz sentinel Aug 26, 2023, 5:31 PM

#

Well I think metagross had cb tyranitar didn’t have dragon dance and there was starmie instead of swampert

gritty scaffold Aug 26, 2023, 5:48 PM

#

So ive tried to build a team with sub focus punch breloom on bw ou should i change somethin here? https://pokepast.es/64732428a3ca40aa

karmic geyserBOT Aug 26, 2023, 5:48 PM

#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @astral thistle, @short hedge, @surreal crypt, @upper plume. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

granite skiff Aug 26, 2023, 8:18 PM

#

https://pokepast.es/844332c26ad5029f

upper plume Aug 27, 2023, 12:37 AM

#

granite skiff https://pokepast.es/844332c26ad5029f

Once you've picked out a last, then I'll rate

granite skiff Aug 27, 2023, 12:57 AM

#

https://pokepast.es/884e1e5ea36b7247

half frost Aug 27, 2023, 3:41 AM

#

Gen 5 OU

#

https://pokepast.es/5d6b419767304f61

#

Weatherless Offense team need help with the last member of the team and some item and moveset recommendations

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 9:54 AM

#

scarf mence here could mayb work

half frost Aug 27, 2023, 12:59 PM

#

gritty scaffold scarf mence here could mayb work

Never tried out scarf mence before only lum berry + outrage set, life orb set, and choice band set

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 12:59 PM

#

mence best set is scarf preety sure

#

theres no reason to run dd over stuff like dnite

half frost Aug 27, 2023, 1:02 PM

#

gritty scaffold mence best set is scarf preety sure

It's my first time hearing about scarf mence

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 1:02 PM

#

well

#

mence isnt that great on bw but its always scarf that good players run

half frost Aug 27, 2023, 1:02 PM

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All the things that came to my mind when someone say salamence is pure sheer power

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 1:02 PM

#

bc cb mence may sound good

#

but dnite is better at that bc has more bulk

#

that isnt just revenge killed by ice move

#

unless rocks

half frost Aug 27, 2023, 1:03 PM

#

I've tried special attacking mence on gen 4 before it was banned but I'm not sure if it's good on gen 5

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 1:03 PM

#

nah its not

#

just run scarf mence

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 1:51 PM

#

Ive tried to make a porygon 2 team on GSC should i change somethin here? https://pokepast.es/6e749a20a8240ca4

karmic geyserBOT Aug 27, 2023, 1:51 PM

#

New OU RMT @half jungle, @silver reef, @fresh thistle, @red delta. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

fresh thistle Aug 27, 2023, 2:15 PM

#

gritty scaffold Ive tried to make a porygon 2 team on GSC should i change somethin here? https:/...

P2 isnt well suited for stall teams due to its susceptibility to status. With your current team there are very few mons P2 can switch in on basically nothing that it actually checks

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 2:15 PM

#

oh dindt tried to make stall

fresh thistle Aug 27, 2023, 2:15 PM

#

The team also doesnt enjoy switching in on zapdos

#

it certainly looks like a defensive team

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 2:16 PM

#

thought using umbreon would be gud to just stop lax

fresh thistle Aug 27, 2023, 2:16 PM

#

if you want to build an offensive team, umbreon is just a momentum sink

#

it gives your opponent a lot of free turns and you have to keep it healthy to check lax

#

even then its risky to have umb as your sole curse lax check

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 2:17 PM

#

hm so any recommendations to change?

fresh thistle Aug 27, 2023, 2:18 PM

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P2's main utility is that with a curse + recover set it can stall out curse lax

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 2:18 PM

#

oh i heard is a good twave spreader aswell

#

dindt thought curse was the main set

fresh thistle Aug 27, 2023, 2:18 PM

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true but you need to be able to switch in on things to twave

#

and a non curse p2 set has a hard time getting in

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 2:19 PM

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cordead ig ill just try rebuild then

fresh thistle Aug 27, 2023, 2:19 PM

#

if you goal is to spread para, youll find better options than p2

#

if you want a p2 team, better to play to its strengths

granite skiff Aug 27, 2023, 4:54 PM

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https://pokepast.es/4f789a0438754ecf

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 5:19 PM

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granite skiff https://pokepast.es/4f789a0438754ecf

skarm spikes + rocks isnt good

#

also wheres roost on it

#

although ig u want to be lead but this team doesnt look like ho at all

granite skiff Aug 27, 2023, 5:58 PM

#

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature

Stealth Rock
Roost
Brave Bird
Whirlwind

#

is this better set for skarm

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 6:34 PM

#

yea although usually ppl run evs on spdef instead of physical

polar relic Aug 27, 2023, 6:39 PM

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https://pokepast.es/13be05f5d830f2c4 can someone tell me if this team is good for gen 8 OU
made it myself

karmic geyserBOT Aug 27, 2023, 6:39 PM

#

New OU RMT @orchid tiger, @hasty ingot. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

granite skiff Aug 27, 2023, 6:52 PM

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gritty scaffold yea although usually ppl run evs on spdef instead of physical

besides skarm anything else i should change

gritty scaffold Aug 27, 2023, 6:53 PM

#

unsure atm

vale lagoon Aug 28, 2023, 12:00 AM

#

Greninja Double hazards team

#

https://pokepast.es/44b66078ecfb02ec Gen7OU

karmic geyserBOT Aug 28, 2023, 12:01 AM

#

New OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

vale lagoon Aug 28, 2023, 12:01 AM

#

Seems solid so far, just lacking a defensive pivot I think

#

It’s hard to get my setup sweepers in

#

Sorry for so many teams, I just like trying out new Greninja sets

#

You think Rotom wash or Tornadus-T would be a good replacement for Toxapex?

vast oracle Aug 28, 2023, 3:49 AM

#

vale lagoon https://pokepast.es/44b66078ecfb02ec Gen7OU

double hazard lead ho is not really the most standard thing ever but if you wanna run it then you wanna make sure that the remaining teammates can keep up offensive pressure

#

and speaking of, HO in general cant afford to run relatively passive mons like pex and reuni cause you 1) let the opposing team set up, which is hugely detrimental cause you run HO and lack the defensive backbone to fall into opposing setup and 2) let them defog away your hazards, pretty much rendering both gren and exca's job futile (meaning you have 2 dead slots on the team)

#

i'd recommend replacing pex and reuni with just offensive mons in general

vale lagoon Aug 28, 2023, 3:53 AM

#

Volt switch Tapu Koko maybe?

vast oracle Aug 28, 2023, 3:53 AM

#

i was thinking scarf lele + serperior

vale lagoon Aug 28, 2023, 3:53 AM

#

Ahh okay

vast oracle Aug 28, 2023, 3:53 AM

#

serp gives you taunt + defog deterrent

#

honestly you can use another mon than lele

#

Atm volc and mmaw dont really make use of tspikes that well (i.e stuff like pex and heatran dont care) too

vast oracle Aug 28, 2023, 4:37 AM

#

also knock over tpunch on mmaw

#

lets you hit ferro and cripples heatran, the latter helps volc a ton

last gate Aug 28, 2023, 3:55 PM

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going back to gen 7 ou cuz i see lots of peeps are playing itlike cray

#

going back to old sand shenanigans

#

stuck with what i built in the latest NDOU and NDUU cuz i forgot what else i ran before

#

most i got is ttar exca and tapu fini

#

https://pokepast.es/ef8be48d753cf3a6 using this as a baseline and thinking of ways to replace dracozolt cuz man using both him and drill is basically a drug

last gate Aug 28, 2023, 6:02 PM

#

https://pokepast.es/eb298cd8b2493eea thoughts?

#

using nidoking to fill the hole left by zolt's absence cuz fk yeah i love substitute abuse

vast oracle Aug 29, 2023, 2:22 AM

#

last gate https://pokepast.es/eb298cd8b2493eea thoughts?

Nidoking isn't the most standard mon but if you wanna build specifically around it then i think it's fine.

I think with celesteela + tangrowth, you'd rather make this a balance core (which sand usually tend to run) and go with toxapex over fini instead. Just the standard spdef set is fine, but you can opt for eject button here imo to bring nidoking in safely on mons like heatran, gliscor, etc. scarf fini in general is also an unset in SM so yea, i think it's mostly an ND thing
minor changes:
with nidoking and excadrill, i dont think you need earthquake on mttar. i'd either go with fire punch to pressure ferrothorn, skarmory, and celesteela better for them (esp cause nidoking lacks a fire move), or crunch to pressure slowbro more for excadrill. your preference.
with nidoking and excadrill (and even celesteela too) to pressure bulu, i think you can drop sludge bomb on tangrowth for either sleep powder or stun spore. gives your offensive mons free entry or setup opportunities, and just be a general support and nuisance

neon raptor Aug 29, 2023, 2:49 AM

#

https://pokepast.es/f2947d0192a4cb07
SS OU. Trying to make Koko fat work

karmic geyserBOT Aug 29, 2023, 2:49 AM

#

New OU RMT @orchid tiger, @hasty ingot. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

last gate Aug 29, 2023, 2:54 AM

#

vast oracle Nidoking isn't the most standard mon but if you wanna build specifically around ...

Yeah about that. I went with a sub coverage sweeper koko as my alternative https://pokepast.es/07833ac50c6e3ff9

#

i really dont like pex btw. or more precisely i just like tapu fini more cuz i find it way more reliable at doing BO things. pex is usually too passive and fini helps protect the entire team from burn spam and para spam which would otherwise cripple most of my mons

#

i still kinda believe in the scarf fini tho. if lando has taught me anything, it's that being able to leverage being offensive and defensive at the same time is HUGE

#

also fml i fked up the pokepaste again

#

can't open up the teambuilder rn to fish up the team i got rn cuz idk it's not loading

#

would love to just copy from here if i could but luckily i just netdecked some sets

vast oracle Aug 29, 2023, 2:59 AM

#

i mean i'm just recommending you changes based on what I know about the metagame, but if you still decide to run the same team then by all means

last gate Aug 29, 2023, 2:59 AM

#

i made some changes based on whatcha said though and after some testing (i got rekt by a zard y cuz the first iteration with nidoking was too slow of all the things to forget lmao)

#

trying to build around excadrill tho

#

not nidoking

#

i may like nidoking but excadrill is my home boi

vast oracle Aug 29, 2023, 3:00 AM

#

pex would help around zardy but ye blobshrug

last gate Aug 29, 2023, 3:00 AM

#

(which is why i was dejected when i saw the lack of sand teams)

last gate Aug 29, 2023, 3:01 AM

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vast oracle pex would help around zardy but ye <:blobshrug:356963220734476288>

ik but then im also too passive vs stall otherwise

vast oracle Aug 29, 2023, 3:01 AM

#

you have sd exca + nido + pursuit

#

i think you can pressure defensive cores decently well already

last gate Aug 29, 2023, 3:02 AM

#

and they can just take the hit and burn me no problem and i aint using nidoking anymore

#

i hate scald and i hate wisp okay

#

sht is just way too crippling

#

50% damage reduction is just bs imo

#

if ttar gets burnt anything that was once a 2 shot is now a 4 shot

#

if excadrill gets burnt, same logic

#

and if i use my special attackers, they just pivot into chansey who still only gets 2 shot at best

#

i genuinely dunno how i'd break past these older variations of stall without the absurdity of something like dracovish or dracozolt or urshifu nowadays cuz yeah ngl i may have gotten a lil too drunk on their power

#

i legit need to perfect read vs stall damn near every time or abuse sub

#

but yeah your thoughts on just making it less prediction reliant and easier to pilot while also minimizing hax

hearty geyser Aug 29, 2023, 9:24 AM

#

Ive been hiding this for quite a while, but after seeing my alt hit leaderboard i think it deserves to be revealed

#

https://pokepast.es/1cadf2f670b84236

#

gen 8 ou rmt

copper gull Aug 29, 2023, 9:36 AM

#

https://pokepast.es/59484129d15ddfae

#

i think this is a decent team

#

your thoughts?

neon raptor Aug 29, 2023, 2:56 PM

#

hearty geyser https://pokepast.es/1cadf2f670b84236

What does Snowtales do here?

upper plume Aug 29, 2023, 3:18 PM

#

wait yeah why both alolan ninetails and tyranitar?

neon raptor Aug 29, 2023, 3:21 PM

#

There’s some strange sets like no hazards Ferro and double defog on a team that doesn’t really warrant double Defog.

outer crescent Aug 29, 2023, 6:04 PM

#

https://pokepast.es/b417a7f7a17ba9cb USM OU

karmic geyserBOT Aug 29, 2023, 6:04 PM

#

New OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

outer crescent Aug 29, 2023, 6:05 PM

#

fluxh ping when you check tysm 👍

torn nimbus Aug 29, 2023, 7:18 PM

#

copper gull https://pokepast.es/59484129d15ddfae

rock slide on skarm is a very strange choice

#

so are night shade and body slam on gengar

copper gull Aug 29, 2023, 7:19 PM

#

torn nimbus so are night shade and body slam on gengar

idk what i was doing

#

i got back from a 15 hour flight

torn nimbus Aug 29, 2023, 7:19 PM

#

fair enough

#

in terms of the pokemon themselves idrk what you're trying to do

#

but i'm not an expert so

hearty geyser Aug 30, 2023, 12:01 AM

#

upper plume wait yeah why both alolan ninetails and tyranitar?

A9 anti lead + screens

torn nimbus Aug 30, 2023, 12:03 AM

#

not me losing 4 games in a row

hearty geyser Aug 30, 2023, 12:07 AM

#

let me cook tho

#

Reached 1500+

#

A9 checks lando and pelipper switchins

#

for example from a barraskewda flip turn to pelipper

#

a predict sends pelipper out

torn nimbus Aug 30, 2023, 12:24 AM

#

nice

#

maybe i should try gen 8 ou again some time

#

i used to use the most goofy ahh ferrothorn set

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:33 AM

#

outer crescent https://pokepast.es/b417a7f7a17ba9cb USM OU

this team can go a lot of ways in terms of what i recommend. Whats the original idea/intention of the build? any mon/core in particular you want to keep?

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:36 AM

#

vast oracle this team can go a lot of ways in terms of what i recommend. Whats the original ...

i wanted to build some offensive-oriented team w/megazam

#

i'd want to keep megazam (not me stating the same thing twice 😭)

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:36 AM

#

offense or bulky offense?

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:36 AM

#

well by offensive i mean

#

bulky offense yea

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:36 AM

#

cause this looks more like bo

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:36 AM

#

yeah i mean bo

#

i can't get it out of my head that offense = hyper offense

#

i mean

#

i need to get it in

#

you got it idk lmao

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:37 AM

#

nah, offense is something else between ho and bo

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:37 AM

#

oh like

#

like those

#

meters

#

what's the word

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:38 AM

#

vast oracle nah, offense is something else between ho and bo

i'm figuring it's something like

#

BO is something with a more defensive backbone

#

HO is very very very offense and offense is a midterm?

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:38 AM

#

ye pretty much, though it's just semantics atp it's fine

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:39 AM

#

~~this is confusing as fuck, but yeah mostly some BO thing with megazam was my goal~~

#

ig LMAO

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:40 AM

#

any reason you're not going with psyspam? with mzam + lele + scarf kart builds

#

cause atm mzam, agren, and scarf kart excels more against offensive teams, but nothing on the team breaks down bulky builds

#

defensively, you lack a steel too

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:40 AM

#

vast oracle any reason you're not going with psyspam? with mzam + lele + scarf kart builds

i forgot about lele completely

#

but that's honestly

#

man i'm new to actually playing this tier fr lmao

#

this is my first non-sample team on it

#

so s

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:41 AM

#

yea it's fine, it's salvageable

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:41 AM

#

thanks lmao

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:41 AM

#

(not unviable or anything lol)

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:42 AM

#

(ig lol)

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:42 AM

#

cause like bo a lot of times get forced into these structures like

#

after having your 3 offensive core

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:42 AM

#

yeah

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:43 AM

#

you either go with lando + rotomw + mage/ferro/heatran

#

depending on the steel, you'll also have another partner too patch up defensively (like if you go for heatran, you might go with bulu/kommoo to have a better matchup against agren)

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:44 AM

#

i'm ngl i actually really like

#

heatran in this

#

kind of stuff i mean

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:44 AM

#

vast oracle depending on the steel, you'll also have another partner too patch up defensivel...

probably kommo-o

#

bulu would do the uh

#

override with lele

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:46 AM

#

something like this?

#

though that's defensive kommo

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:47 AM

#

defensive or offensive kommo isn't something i'm gonna be nitpicky about lol

#

yeah i like this

#

can i see paste

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:47 AM

#

https://pokepast.es/7c97eff05c009628

#

can make gren the spikes set too

#

or if you want to stick with scarf kart + mzam + lele, you can run the more standard psyspam

#

with landot + rotomw + av mage

#

either make it more offensive with specs lele + sd flyz lando, or keep BO with cm zfight lele + defensive lando, both are fine

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:53 AM

#

back

#

mb

#

nah i liked this ngl lol

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:54 AM

#

ye, feel free to experiment with the other 4, psyspam is just that flexible

#

anything from offense to balance can work

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 1:56 AM

#

thanks a lot lol

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 1:58 AM

#

nw, though i apologize for ending up giving a team instead of fixing yours when i say it's salvageable blobbucket

outer crescent Aug 30, 2023, 2:01 AM

#

vast oracle nw, though i apologize for ending up giving a team instead of fixing yours when ...

nah don't worry about it

#

it kept the concept i wanted to run

#

therefore it counts

#

👍

leaden fiber Aug 30, 2023, 3:34 AM

#

copper gull https://pokepast.es/59484129d15ddfae

alot of these sets r outright bad

#

and the structure is like, weird

#

ie, loom + dd mence w no gar check in sight

#

and gar + spikes with no sand

#

i don't think there's a direction / anything worth salvaging here lol

#

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/callous-invitational-7-teams-replays-and-usage-statistics.3722746/ if u want up2date teams, lot of variety here, sea / mana is great for offense

#

there aren't actual pastes there but piecing shit together from replays helps u learn and whatnot

balmy laurel Aug 30, 2023, 6:49 AM

#

Hey I'm doing a 1v1 tomorrow with a friend, and I wanted some critique on this set;; It's nothing special and I don't expect it to do any more than take me thru a best of 3
https://pokepast.es/dd56e069bd627a7f

peak canyon Aug 30, 2023, 7:42 AM

#

https://pokepast.es/18a793fb17a84a74 usum ou what should be changed here to make it not visibly weak to anything

karmic geyserBOT Aug 30, 2023, 7:42 AM

#

New OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

copper gull Aug 30, 2023, 9:04 AM

#

leaden fiber and gar + spikes with no sand

like i said

#

i came back from holiday

#

and my head feels woozy

#

idk what i was doing lmfao, my bad

warped venture Aug 30, 2023, 10:52 AM

#

polar relic https://pokepast.es/13be05f5d830f2c4 can someone tell me if this team is good fo...

Hey sorry for late reply.
Aegislash has Shadow Ball over Shadow Claw. Was that intentional?
Though even then I don't think this is the kind of team you would want to use Swords Dance Aegislash on.

#

Snorlax also is just not worth using, Curselax is a dated strategy and there is significantly better wincons in OU.

#

What exactly was your main focus here? That'd make it a lot easier to rebuild.

#

Also both Lando and Rotom Wash more commonly go for Specially Defensive sets. As Rotom Wash valuably checks Heatran because of said investment, as well as Landorus being able to slow down a lot of common Special Attackers in the tier while still being able to check a fair few Physical Attackers.

#

Mixed Dragapult simply spreads its resources too thin to make it an effective Wallbreaker in a majority of cases, its offenses are already poultry in the grand scheme of things and usually only gets things done with a boosting Item.

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 3:44 PM

#

peak canyon https://pokepast.es/18a793fb17a84a74 usum ou what should be changed here to make...

why is there a qd defog no-fire-move volc on my screen

peak canyon Aug 30, 2023, 3:45 PM

#

vast oracle why is there a qd defog no-fire-move volc on my screen

That is a mistake

#

Its supposed to be fire blast sorry

#

Instead of defog

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 3:45 PM

#

ye makes sense

#

i actually have a similar BO build with z psychic volc + sd msciz core

#

i think you get a lot of mileage doing something similar actually

#

cb ttar pursuits heatran (among other things) for volc + msciz + scarf serp

peak canyon Aug 30, 2023, 3:48 PM

#

Hmm

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 3:48 PM

#

i also dislike bulu on your build cause you pretty much make opposing heatran unkillable, which is annoying for your double bug core

peak canyon Aug 30, 2023, 3:49 PM

#

Hm i see

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 3:49 PM

#

and also i like double defogs on my volc bo builds, hence both serp and fini having them

#

serp also lures in heatran and knock it, which lets my msciz run uturn (for instance, msciz uturns out of an incoming heatran, giving ttar entry to pursuit it etc)

peak canyon Aug 30, 2023, 3:51 PM

#

I see

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 3:51 PM

#

also gives the team a general breaker

peak canyon Aug 30, 2023, 3:51 PM

#

Can u send that team over

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 3:51 PM

#

https://pokepast.es/94a58951c5a78520

peak canyon Aug 30, 2023, 3:52 PM

#

Alr so ttars job is to

#

Tske care of tran

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 3:52 PM

#

generally yes

#

but can also pursuit mlati, zapdos, and tornt for serp, pursuit chansey for volc, and pursuit zapdos for msciz

peak canyon Aug 30, 2023, 3:54 PM

#

I see

#

Thanks

#

Ill use it

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 3:55 PM

#

sure thing

peak canyon Aug 30, 2023, 3:55 PM

#

48 spe on lando for?

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 3:55 PM

#

modest magearna

peak canyon Aug 30, 2023, 3:55 PM

#

Oh ok

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 3:56 PM

#

i generally run 144 for modest heatran on my defensive lando, pretty standard spread

#

but since i have cb ttar to pursuit heatran in general, i have more freedom to run more bulk

#

pretty cool application

peak canyon Aug 30, 2023, 3:57 PM

#

I see

peak canyon Aug 30, 2023, 4:18 PM

#

@vast oracle whats my volcorona check in that team

vast oracle Aug 30, 2023, 4:22 PM

#

taunt fini lol

#

ttar lives if it's not z bug

#

also just keep rocks up

#

you can try glare on scarf serp to emergency check it, but i just think you cant afford to drop any of the moves

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 8:08 AM

#

https://pokepast.es/7a9add1f324c0f92 the defensive core (especially mzam) is a big question mark, and id like to fit uturn on torn if possible. also is defog>rocks on lando worth it?

#

@vast oracle please and ty!

vast oracle Aug 31, 2023, 9:51 AM

#

wraith mulch https://pokepast.es/7a9add1f324c0f92 the defensive core (especially mzam) is a b...

oooo i love the specs clown + z fight tornt core, pretty cool concept

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though it seems like you want to keep the setup mage too based on the team name, so i think we'll go ahead and go the direction of replacing mzam instead.

with lack of mzam, you'll need another speed control and i'd just suggest running scarf landot, which means you'll need another rocker.
since you have a late-game mage and you're attempting to build BO, i think we might need another defensive steel, something like ferro prob works. gives you your agren check, rocker, and potentially knock off support too, which can let your tornt forgo its own knock off.
i know you want uturn on the torn-t, but consider taunt too -- helps against CM setup sweepers like mlati and clef cause all 3 of your offensive core are all special attackers and can fall short against them (specs clown with trick can help ease the matchup, but i think if they stack insane hazards [which these fat CM-ers tend to be paired with] then it'll get ugly real quick). also helps the matchup against stuff like chansey and pex, which helps clown + mage
pain split rotomw wants lefties over 50% berry and a status move (twave or wisp) over defog, which prevents it from being too passive
if you still want double defog, landot can run it too. but if you think defog on landot is enough, then tornt can drop its own defog for knock off/uturn/taunt

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:15 AM

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vast oracle though it seems like you want to keep the setup mage too based on the team name,...

blob_heart thanks for the feedback! the concept for mage is that if tar gets in on bace safely, i can threaten to setup and go for game, perhaps that concept could have a better mon than mage?

On the agren point, does mage not do it well enough? ig it is offensive, so perhaps it doesnt have the ability to constantly come in on hpumps and stuff? otherwise, implemented! would like to know your thoughts on the ttar "revenge killer"

vast oracle Aug 31, 2023, 10:32 AM

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Yea i understood the synergy for sure, it’s just that i also thought about running mzam as the cleaner instead & heart swap mage as the check to CM-ers — just a different apporach to your team

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The only mage set on BO that answers agren decently well is the AV set so having another backup is nice. It’s a different story too if you run HO, of course

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:34 AM

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vast oracle Yea i understood the synergy for sure, it’s just that i also thought about runni...

i dont really mind the direction of the team kek, as long as something can hard punish ttar if it gets in on non-hp ground

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:34 AM

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vast oracle The only mage set on BO that answers agren decently well is the AV set so having...

icic, ty

vast oracle Aug 31, 2023, 10:35 AM

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Yeah it’s totally fine

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I had a clown team too with z-clang kommoo as my rocker and pursuit-punisher lol

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:36 AM

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:0

vast oracle Aug 31, 2023, 10:36 AM

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Decent agren & heatran check for offense too

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:36 AM

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but actually now that i think about it, is therea necessity for fightz torn and mage on the same team

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if they are both going after ttar

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and ttar isnt even the only pursuiter

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nvm it probably is the only one that can switch into fire blast

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:37 AM

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wraith mulch but actually now that i think about it, is therea necessity for fightz torn and ...

point still stands

vast oracle Aug 31, 2023, 10:38 AM

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You also can lure heatran for mage

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Mage also helps cover weavile which would honestly threaten & pursuit trap tornt + clown

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Either soft checking it or use it as setup fodder too

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I guess you can forgo focus on mage and run something like CM/fleur actually

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:40 AM

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https://pokepast.es/eb32ff622a5ca2d2 something like this?

unborn solstice Aug 31, 2023, 10:40 AM

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this is making me wanna play gen 7 lol

tropic schooner Aug 31, 2023, 10:42 AM

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Hmm is this solid enough into sub stored mlati?

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Also no rocks on this

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Punishment over defog lando and rocks somewhere on ferro prob

vast oracle Aug 31, 2023, 10:43 AM

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Whip over gyro & rocks over spikes on ferro, and max out lando’s ivs too

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Dont think you run spikes if you go for double defog

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Ye the cm-er matchup has been annoying, punishment lando is also okay too if you want to be more rigid on that front

tropic schooner Aug 31, 2023, 10:44 AM

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My issue with whipper is kyurem becomes annoying

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Altho you can just catch that off guard with fightinium ig

vast oracle Aug 31, 2023, 10:46 AM

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I’d also go for slightly more spdef on rotomw but full physdef i think is fine too

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:46 AM

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how many evs would u suggest

vast oracle Aug 31, 2023, 10:47 AM

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Uh idt i have lefties rotomw on my ev spread compendiums, most of my rotomw are ev’d for the 50% berry lol

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:48 AM

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o lol, any benchmarks i wanna ev for?

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im pretty sure i can figure it out if i know what im looking for

tropic schooner Aug 31, 2023, 10:48 AM

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Uh victini bolt strike or +1 defensive volcarona buginium

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Would also go for twave on washtom here

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Helps a lot more vs kyu base and volcarona

vast oracle Aug 31, 2023, 10:51 AM

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Mmaw is a headache otherwise but lando should slow it down enough i guess?

tropic schooner Aug 31, 2023, 10:52 AM

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Ferro eases it off if its brick break

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:52 AM

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tropic schooner Uh victini bolt strike or +1 defensive volcarona buginium

+1 0 SpA Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 256-303 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO by or you do mean or and not and right

tropic schooner Aug 31, 2023, 10:52 AM

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Yeah this is doable

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Or as i said vic bolt strike for 3hko

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:53 AM

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it is fine to say scarf lando is fine into volc

vast oracle Aug 31, 2023, 10:53 AM

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Oh nah if they run brick break mmaw you already win

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:54 AM

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tropic schooner Or as i said vic bolt strike for 3hko

252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Rotom-Wash: 85-101 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
and rest in spdef i guess?

tropic schooner Aug 31, 2023, 10:54 AM

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You dont need that much

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Calc with lefties

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 10:55 AM

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o right

vast oracle Aug 31, 2023, 10:55 AM

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That spdef +224 is fine

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If they lock into bolt it gives lando entry anywayd

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Can run 12 spdef on lando to live +1 volcs flame

tropic schooner Aug 31, 2023, 10:56 AM

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Its a scary 50/50 and i also didnt know what to calc for

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 11:26 AM

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uh

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so whats the conclusion

vast oracle Aug 31, 2023, 12:59 PM

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wraith mulch so whats the conclusion

https://pokepast.es/ce397ca61d40fa44 with the proposed changes

wraith mulch Aug 31, 2023, 1:01 PM

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vast oracle https://pokepast.es/ce397ca61d40fa44 with the proposed changes

ty!

unborn solstice Aug 31, 2023, 2:59 PM

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vast oracle https://pokepast.es/ce397ca61d40fa44 with the proposed changes

i’m terrible at teambuilding. but this hyperoffense sun is really fun to use so far. thoughts?

https://pokepast.es/76c4615c270dfff6

crisp saffron Sep 1, 2023, 12:07 AM

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wow dpp ou is bad now

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unironically re ban latias

crisp saffron Sep 1, 2023, 12:07 AM

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unborn solstice i’m terrible at teambuilding. but this hyperoffense sun is really fun to use so ...

nat dex?

crisp saffron Sep 1, 2023, 12:09 AM

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vast oracle Mmaw is a headache otherwise but lando should slow it down enough i guess?

when is mega mawile not a headache

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so not a glaring weakness

unborn solstice Sep 1, 2023, 12:24 AM

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crisp saffron unironically re ban latias

yeah… latias is the problem…

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big dpp fan here. it’s jirachi. jirachi is the problem.

crisp saffron Sep 1, 2023, 12:25 AM

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unborn solstice big dpp fan here. it’s jirachi. jirachi is the problem.

Latias forces jirachi

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the omnipotent tyranny of clef and jirachi is only really enforced by having latias in the tier

unborn solstice Sep 1, 2023, 12:26 AM

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jirachi wouldn’t become less of an issue without latias

crisp saffron Sep 1, 2023, 12:26 AM

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that said if I was in charge of DPP I'd also ban iron head and body slam

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but people are so maried to hax rachi that that'd obviously never happen

unborn solstice Sep 1, 2023, 12:27 AM

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just iron head for me. para is a staple of pokemon as a whole. it’s usually manageable. iron head makes it stupid

crisp saffron Sep 1, 2023, 12:45 AM

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Maybe body slam would be a manageable without iron head

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Then again like half of dpp teams are mono t wave anyway

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So body slam might not even matter

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😂

unborn solstice Sep 1, 2023, 12:46 AM

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it really doesn't

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para's a big part of gen 4 even without rachi

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rachi just sucks

crisp saffron Sep 1, 2023, 12:54 AM

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unborn solstice i’m terrible at teambuilding. but this hyperoffense sun is really fun to use so ...

Oh no Tera types so I assume gen 7, main issue I see is your weakness to other offensive mons, an offensive lando, several megas or excadrill under sand would have a field day with this, I don’t think glisgor fits all too well , try a rock polish SD lando

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Tangrowth is ok but kind of a momentum sink. Could try something like koko or torn to maintain momentum (depends on what you want to check more)

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Disclosure I haven’t played gen 7 since it was current. I’ll take a more detailed look tomorrow when I have the time

vast oracle Sep 1, 2023, 1:43 AM

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unborn solstice i’m terrible at teambuilding. but this hyperoffense sun is really fun to use so ...

aside from mdoom being unviable in sm, i think this is far too away from your standard sun builds, which usually runs zardY structures with kartana + weavile/victini, or the more niche torkoal ones with zardX + venu. some more issues on your team is hazard removal only being spin torkoal (which cant reliably spin on the rockers in the first place, & having to keep itself healthy for sun duration, etc) on a sun team with 3 rock-weak mons, av tangrowth has fallen off a lot but i think the way the team is build in the first place means you're forced into running it to cover/soft check a bunch of threats at once, and then having sd gliscor out of nowhere. also you call this HO but it's neither built like one nor played like one so i'm even more confused of the direction of the team

unborn solstice Sep 1, 2023, 1:45 AM

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vast oracle aside from mdoom being unviable in sm, i think this is far too away from your st...

remember when i said i'm terrible at team building 😄

hasty ingot Sep 1, 2023, 1:45 AM

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vast oracle aside from mdoom being unviable in sm, i think this is far too away from your st...

You're unviable in SM

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Carry on

unborn solstice Sep 1, 2023, 1:45 AM

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as soon as they released items that weren't leftovers i fell off 😭

vast oracle Sep 1, 2023, 1:47 AM

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unborn solstice remember when i said i'm terrible at team building 😄

yeah nah this is totally fine, i get you. just pointing out the team's flaws so you might have a good idea how it's generally supposed to be

vast oracle Sep 1, 2023, 1:48 AM

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unborn solstice as soon as they released items that weren't leftovers i fell off 😭

if you're a returning player, i'd suggest using the samples team and play to get a feeling of the metagame yourself; from there, once you're knowledgeable enough, you can build a good one of your own

unborn solstice Sep 1, 2023, 1:48 AM

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also why is mdoom unviable? i know where it's ranked but like. with some prediction i've been able to rip holes through teams

vast oracle Sep 1, 2023, 1:48 AM

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hasty ingot You're unviable in SM

no u changry

hasty ingot Sep 1, 2023, 1:48 AM

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Rocks weakness

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Prediction reliant

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Slow

#Old Gens OU