#Old Gens OU

1 messages · Page 14 of 1

reef cobalt
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so it’d be best in times where rotom forces the opponent to switch to another pokemon?

leaden fiber
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or just things it safe against

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it doesnt force a switch vs toxapex but toxapex doesnt immediately threaten u

reef cobalt
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gotcha!

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so pokemon that dont threaten rotom is where its safe to defog

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so for example, i’d bring rotom in on something like earthquake or something it resists, and defog the turn after bringing it in?

leaden fiber
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it depends a lot on circumstances

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none of these cases are super cut and dry

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like for example if ferro is the rocker and its just going to setup rocks again as u defog and it comes in

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well then

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also if theres a pokemon that u absolutely cant let it for free then volt or wisp instead etc.

reef cobalt
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thats fair!

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yeah of course, i was just wondering

karmic geyserBOT
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New OU RMT @azure torrent, @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

vast oracle
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also, just remembered about this

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with mgyara + kokolucha i'd go straight up HO honestly

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make magearna setup and change torn-t to another wallbreaker

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nah, keep sub (or taunt)

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just lean into its ability to stallbreak, something lucha struggles with

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whoops just red you meant over crunch. certainly dont, hits like a wet noodle and makes you walled by rotom-w and slowbro

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bulu shouldnt be an issue with lucha in the back

broken pollen
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no, tag the relevant people.

steep ruin
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Who to tag for gen 7 OU because someone told me that you rated gen 7 OU teams

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Bruh can u tell me who rates gen 7 OU teams

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Would be really helpful

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@all who rates gen 7 OU teams

leaden fiber
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#1024432517077540904

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has the list

steep ruin
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Thx

leaden fiber
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you haven't even posted the team

steep ruin
azure torrent
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Not today I’m away sorry

steep ruin
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No worries

vast oracle
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uhh whats the main focus of the team here

steep ruin
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Balance

vast oracle
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cause lo gren + megazam, kokolucha, and ferropex are 3 cores that dont work on the same team

steep ruin
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Ohk

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So um what should I do to change this

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I'm kinda new to team building so I could use some help if thats not too much to ask...

vast oracle
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nah it's okay

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i'll look into the team a bit more later, still outside atm

steep ruin
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No worries

copper gull
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whos the ADV OU rater?

leaden fiber
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#1024432517077540904 has the full list

upper plume
vast oracle
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i think if you want to go for a balance build, you can keep CM mega zam + ferropex

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make tapu koko the physical z variant to support Mzam, as it lures in stuff like av mag and chansey, and overwhelm spdef ferro (having your own knock ferro makes it lose lefties + cant heal from leech)

tropic schooner
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My ss brain was almost gonna suggest knock body press ferro

vast oracle
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gliscor and tornt just rounds out the defensive core (ground immune, volt immune, a primary heatran check, kart check, etc)

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i also made adjustments on the moveset & ev spread, let me know if you have any q's

tropic schooner
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Wouldnt spdef glis be better for volcarona stuff

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If its psychium z

vast oracle
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i needed a mmaw and zardx check

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that isnt landot

tropic schooner
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I guess

vast oracle
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  • you have recover megazam for heatran as well
tropic schooner
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Just another structure that folds to some random volc set

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Should be fine

vast oracle
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classic

tropic schooner
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Yea lol

tropic schooner
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@vast oracle

steep ruin
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@vast oracle I actually want a team where Ash Gren is the base

kind shadow
vast oracle
# tropic schooner https://pokepast.es/e4425ef867487580

looks fine. only consideration is probably less speed & more bulk on tornt (you have roost koko for opposing torn-t anyways), and hp ice on mchomp cause the spdef gliscor matchup is x button (if so, go rocks over spikes on ferro and and defog over heat wave on torn-t (the steels gets knocked by your own ferro and lose to taunt + helmet))

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& without spa investment it does nothing to celes

vast oracle
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i'd go BO if that's fine w u

steep ruin
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Kk BO works too

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I want a team with Ash Greninja as base

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Maybe something along the lines of Greninja along with Politode, MSwampert and Ferropex

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And maybe fast offensive Kingdra and Torn-T

vast oracle
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if that's the case then that's just rain

steep ruin
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Well is there any other options

vast oracle
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if you want ashgren with mega pert, a rain setter (pelipper over politoed), a ferrothorn, and kingdra & torn-t then thats exlusively rain

steep ruin
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So do you have any other options

vast oracle
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i mean there's nothing wrong with just going for rain

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it's a good archetype

steep ruin
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True

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Kk imma make a rain team then ig

vast oracle
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you can make ash gren + tapu koko + ferropex (from your original team) work

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though the standard ash gren set is specs with stabs + spikes. the one on your old team is more of a protean thing

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you can replace the mega zam from that pokepast i sent you for ashgren, cause the koko does the same thing (lures in av mag & chansey and overwhelm ferro for ashgren)

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but if you're going for BO, then the other 2 slots could be scarf landot + a breaker

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i like mega maw just cause it demolishes fat teams for agren and just overall work well together, and can slot in tpunch cause of koko's terrain

steep ruin
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Fast offensive rain

vast oracle
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the 6 is fine but the sets are unfortunately suboptimal

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feel free to check the smogdex for their sets

steep ruin
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Kk

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Thx for the help

vast oracle
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nw, if you want a more BO approach a had written something up there

steep ruin
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I actually run Grass Knot as a way to check water types

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Since I run GB on Ferro

vast oracle
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what water types are u clicking grass knot with

steep ruin
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Opposing MSwamperts and Mdos

vast oracle
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pex rotomw slowbro gets specs dark pulsed anyways

steep ruin
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Ig Mdos goes to Superpower from Torn-T

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Mostly for opposing Mperts

vast oracle
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mpert is only in rain, and if it's in rain they're faster than you

steep ruin
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Doesn't +speed AGren outspeed standard Mperts

vast oracle
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mgyara is fair, but as a mon it struggles against offensive teams (which rain is) and it's a very rare mon in the meta that running gknot for it is unjustifiable

steep ruin
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Thats fair

vast oracle
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only target for gknot is gastro, which almost gets 2hkoed by dpulse, especially with spikes up

steep ruin
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Hmm true

vast oracle
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there's a reason why agren is so scary, cause dark + water is so potent

steep ruin
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My Ferro is spiking tho

vast oracle
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it doesnt need to run coverage

steep ruin
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True

vast oracle
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ya it's fine, the hazard stacking core in rain is pretty flexible

steep ruin
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Water and Dark nearly slashes the entire meta

vast oracle
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like you can make mpert rocks, ferro spikes, and gren ice beam

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or mpert superpower, ferro rocks, and gren spikes

steep ruin
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Can I run like Water Shuriken Hydro Pump Dark Pulse and Ice Beam

vast oracle
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ya it's fine

steep ruin
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And maybe water-Z

vast oracle
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if that's the case, make mpert rocks and ferro spikes

steep ruin
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Kk

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So what do I swap for Pert

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I swap Bulk up right

vast oracle
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ye

steep ruin
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Kk

vast oracle
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stabs + ice punch are standards

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again, most of the sets are on smogdex

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you can get for all 6 of your mons

steep ruin
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Also on Ferro what should I run Gyro Ball or Power Whip

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Like what would you prefer

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GB or PW

vast oracle
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whip is fine

steep ruin
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Kk

vast oracle
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also drop leech seed cause you're running offense

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and make the item a 50% berry

steep ruin
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Ight ight

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But then there won't be any source of healing

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Cuz after the berry proc I'm not gonna have LS or LO for healimg

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Healing*

vast oracle
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the pinch berry is enough on these rain offenses

steep ruin
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True

vast oracle
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cause you're not aiming to play the long game

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hence, offense

steep ruin
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Ig I won't take that much from fire anyway

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True

vast oracle
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ya, you dont want ferro to stay on the field for a long time anyways

steep ruin
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I have to win fast and just brute force my way

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Makes sense

vast oracle
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just switch into stuff, set up hazards, let your peli & tornt pivot the breaker in and wreak havoc

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yea

steep ruin
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Simple af

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I like it

vast oracle
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kingdra is fine but the standard 6 is usually manaphy over it

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gives you a potent stallbreaker

steep ruin
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K

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Thx for your time

vast oracle
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all good

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the smogdex infos should still be up to date, feel free to look through them

steep ruin
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Will do

robust hinge
karmic geyserBOT
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New OU RMT @half jungle, @silver reef, @fresh thistle, @red delta. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

robust hinge
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mostly an edited version of the standard hera + boom offense team

fresh thistle
# robust hinge https://pokepast.es/7e5a6946ddb79c87 getting back into GSC OU with this team, it...

I think this team is pretty solid defensively, but could use some work on the offensive side.
Rapid Spin Cloyster is an unusual move choice for offense teams. Has Cloyster been successful keeping Spikes off your side? Do you think its critically important for this team to keep Spikes off?
What does your Tyranitar set typically accomplish? I think its move selection can be optimized, but I'd like to know what you have been using it for.

robust hinge
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i did run fire blast over crunch initially, but i felt the coverage was redundant with both raikou and curse + self destruct snorlax, so i slotted crunch in to better pressure gengar and exeggutor, who i felt were more pressing issues

fresh thistle
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typically only offense teams running marowak run rapid spin starmie/cloy

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Cloyster's explosion is very valuable on offense

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Rapid Spin is great of course, but something like Rapid Spin Golem is a more common sight on offense, it can spin but is still threatening with boom

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No spikes on your side is very nice, but sacrificing Cloy's ability to boom is too costly imo

robust hinge
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alright, i understand, cloy did feel a lot more passive without the threat of explosion

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also for ttar, i think i was thinking too much about skarmory specifically when accounting for move choice, while forgetting about forretress

fresh thistle
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crunch hitting gar and eggy is nice, fire blast is also good for the reasons you mentioned (also does the exact same damage to eggy as crunch)

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but i question tyranitar role on the team

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it can pursuit trap some mons and spread damage

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but what do you think is the main way you win with this team?

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to me this team is totally geared towards physical offense, removing physical walls as well as mons like zap

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ttar doesn't do much to further that goal

robust hinge
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that's fair, i was probably just too scared of gengar specifically when teambuilding, when i already have raikou and snorlax to handle it

fresh thistle
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as well as steelix and hera

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gar doesnt do much to those either

robust hinge
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i thought gar beats hera, not the other way around?

fresh thistle
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not without exploding or running fire punch

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though without curse, gar will stall most of hera's megahorns

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i think a good decision would be to turn ttar into a bigger offensive threat

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you could do this with a set like curse/rslide/eq/roar

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but i think a set like screech/rslide/eq is nice on this team

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good mid/late game threat, and helps not lose to last mon curse lax

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last move can be many options, pursuit/dpunch/fire move

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even roar, though it is a bit redundant with screech

robust hinge
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mhm, i'd probably pick fire blast just to stop forre from being too much of a pain, but i'll try experimenting with all of them

fresh thistle
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fire ttar is unlikely to stop forre from being a pain

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since it comes in on lax/lix/hera

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its only likely to pick off the occasional forre against an opponent that doesnt scout

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but ttar has many options, you can try them out

robust hinge
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yeah i definitely will
thanks for the advice, really appreciate it

fresh thistle
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i have 2 more quick points

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psychic/giga eggy is hazardous for this team

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difficult to switch into

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i would recommend replacing hp water with hp ice on raikou

robust hinge
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i was already considering changing my hidden power, but yeah the team does struggle with eggy

fresh thistle
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my other comment is to beware of machamp, especially fire blast machamp

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sleep talk hera is usually a good wall

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but only if it is running curse

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if machamp sets up curse as hera switches in, hera will still probably win 1v1

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but will expend most of its hp

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it gets even worse is hera is chipped or asleep

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its difficult to alleviate this weakness without radically altering your team

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so just be aware of it and be willing to use explosion to remove machamp

robust hinge
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yeah most of my booms have been on a chipped machamp

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im also guessing this extends to fire blast nidoking as well

fresh thistle
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yes, though i would say that is much more uncommon than fb machamp

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chipping machamp helps hera immensely

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champ only gets in mostly free vs ttar, so be aware of the risk when you're using ttar before the opponents team has been revealed

robust hinge
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alright, thanks for the heads up, really excited to try these new recommendations next time i hop on showdown

fresh thistle
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good luck, feel free to come back after you make some changes

copper tiger
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Built a team around my favorite set of all time (Imprison Explosion Landorus-T)

vast oracle
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other than that, this looks like standard ho to me

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i'd replace scarf kart and thundy-t for better setup sweepers that benefit screens here

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something like wp magearna and zceleb victini

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gives you a way to punish fairies for lucha + mgyara, and gives some sort of defensive backbone (scarf lele clicks moonblast on your current team)

thorny plover
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for ORAS

tribal smelt
karmic geyserBOT
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New OU RMT @azure torrent, @orchid tiger, @hasty ingot. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tribal smelt
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I was staring at this in my builder and I think it can be saved

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Since from playtesting it feels weird more than bad

tropic schooner
tribal smelt
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True

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I think my logic on not running knock was "I like taunt + Toxic as cplay" but like. I have a whole Chansey to stomach any cm bs

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So over toxic goes knock

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I still like do nothing having taunt ftr

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Fast taunt means it neuters any cuteness cplay

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(mostly, and almost solely, demon Mew/ Reun wars)

hazy grotto
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mushroom

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@vast oracle

vast oracle
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looks good honestly. fat mlop teams usually run double prio (fake out + quick attack) to fuck up offense, but i get the ice punch here cause SD grounds are mad threatening

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any specific matchups you're struggling with?

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maybe change uturn to toxic on glisc, and protect over toxic on tran. you dont need the momentum on glisc on fat teams like this. aside from lefties + burn / toxic (spikes) dmg, protect heatran gives you a way to play around choiced mons like lele & kart

hazy grotto
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I do realize the team has no hazards so I’m debating to use SD lando

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but also not a big fan of the grassy terrain reducing ground damage to landorus

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but I’m doing fine without rocks so far

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Also the defog on Hawlucha is just for like webs teams

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@vast oracle

hazy grotto
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I just realized this would’ve been better if I paired it with Tapu Koko

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lol

radiant silo
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SM OU anyone?

image.png
upper plume
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If you post the link and the format then you'll get the bot to ping the sm ou raters

karmic geyserBOT
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New OU RMT @azure torrent, @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

vast oracle
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A huge portion of grasspam teams i have still runs a EQ ground type, which is still better than coping with thundy-t. at worst, i'll have stuff like earth power lando-t or stomping tantrum tankchomp (and even things like nidoking) instead. i also dont see the thundy-t synergy here so dropping it seems justifiable asw

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  • change magearna into rocks spdef heatran, gives you a fire resist cause stuff like zardy & volc just clicks
  • and ya z-stone edge lando-t is good over thundyt, lets you snipe the birds for your grassspam + hawlucha
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  • run defog on kartana over hawlucha. webs is already a fringe playstyle and lucha beats them easily anyways. plus defog on kart lets you potentially defog earlygame against annoying spike stacking builds, something lucha cant reliably do
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Another alternative is to run spdef bulu (better rain answer and survivability to keep terrain for much longer) + SD kartana (normalium/grassium z) + scarf landot instead

vast oracle
# radiant silo SM OU anyone?

make lele specs, one of ferro's stabs for knock for steels (heatran celesteela ferro) for your psyspam, and ashgren a scarf lando-t instead (gives you speed control + pivot for lele + ground immune + volt immune + secondary defogger for volc)

vast oracle
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most of the sets, mostly ev spreads, are unviable (including the sylveon itself unfortunately) and the niche options of keldeo and blace dont have the necessary support to work. is this team built around keldeo or?

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comes with metagame knowledge really; knowing what pokemon is good, the threats that you need to cover in the builder, and knowing the standards sets/roles that each pokemon run

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do you still want to use support mega latias or do you want it to be the wincon with calm mind?

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for one, you lack steel types, which means the matchup against stuff like tapu lele and mega alakazam tougher

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I rated a CM Mlati team way back with a similar core to yours (landot + toxapex + fairy)

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though clefable can be CM as well

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calm mind

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again, metagame knowledge from playing/watching high level games. but also there are multiple resources onsite and on forums that you can read through, like viability rankings and sample teams, and even the analyses on the smogdex should give you a very good idea on them as well

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lots of resources in this forums

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a good way is to start testing them, lets you know firsthand how the team feels and the things it struggles with so you can improve on them afterwards

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like for examples, your mlati has no speed investment, which is one of the few reasons that makes it a good defensive pokemon (outspeeds kartana and Mmedi). this is something you can see and read on the smogdex

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or the standard toxapex spread is generally specially defensive, helps it check things like volcarona and ash greninja better

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things like what does this core struggle with? are there any specific pokemon/matchup that needs to be covered by another pokemon? sounds vague but again, comes with experience

vast oracle
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depends. dont just base it on a simple type chart interaction, but focus on what are the relevant pokemon in the metagame that actually use these ice moves (weavile, kyurem-b, protean greninja, etc) and cover/build accordingly

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cant really discuss much further cause this channel is to rate fully-built teams, not building something from scratch

quick leaf
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@blazing elbow

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could you rate my team :o

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for adv

blazing elbow
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im ass at the tier but I'll try

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in a bit

quick leaf
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oh oopsie

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i thought you like mained adv lol

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you dont have to

blazing elbow
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i do main adv

quick leaf
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you dont suck cathug

leaden fiber
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didnt ask me

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wow

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beatup doom otherwise ok

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and/or fp pert

quick leaf
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beatup over what

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im keeping wisp

leaden fiber
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crunch

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why is that gar spread so weir

quick leaf
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dont ask me

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ask smogon

blazing elbow
leaden fiber
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it looks ugly

blazing elbow
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this might struggle alot vs mixmence

leaden fiber
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yeah

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use grass cloy

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eh

blazing elbow
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also yeah use grass cloy offpert is a pain

leaden fiber
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idk. ithink u want offensive ass cloy

quick leaf
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oki

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what does that run

leaden fiber
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i have the spread

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1s

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the fruhdazi™ spread

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wait nvm its literally the same spread

quick leaf
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lol

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what should i run over hp grass?

leaden fiber
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spin

quick leaf
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i mean what should i swap for hp grass

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cant i be giga drain gengar instead

leaden fiber
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spin

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and no

quick leaf
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why D:

leaden fiber
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cant afford to drop a move for grass

quick leaf
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oki but on the analysis it says cloyster pairs well with houndoom because of spin + pursuit

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i guess analyses are known to suck

blazing elbow
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yeah me personally i liked the spin+scooby+snorlax

leaden fiber
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cloys niche isnt spin spikes anymore

quick leaf
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i just won a roomtour wit the team

thorny plover
karmic geyserBOT
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New OU RMT @azure torrent. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

thin light
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Hi

thorny plover
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hi

karmic geyserBOT
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New OU RMT @azure torrent, @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tidal stone
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where can you find gen6 ou sample teams?

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I know there is a link some where to it but I cant find it

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🤡

upper plume
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!orassamples

karmic geyserBOT
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ORAS Sample Teams:
Ubers: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen6ubers
OU: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-ou-sample-teams.3694551/
UU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen6uu
RU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen6ru
NU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen6nu
PU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen6pu
ZU: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen6zu
LC: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen6lc
Monotype: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen6monotype
1v1: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen61v1

upper plume
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@tidal stone

tidal stone
leaden gate
vast oracle
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-spdef bulu over kartana for grassy terrain (helps pex, ttar, and heatran) and better defensive profile overall while still working well with ttar's pursuit and overwhelm steels for mlati.
-band ttar over av to punish the bulky psychics and birds harder (especially cause you have pex + bulu + grassy terrain to cover and compensate for your lack of bulk)
-optional but scarf landot over gliscor for speed control and better pivot against physical attackers like mmedi, zardx, and mmaw, unless ofc you value gliscor's status absorption and longevity more

minor changes:
-tspikes over knock off on pex, punishes pursuit trappers from threatening your mlati and is generally good against offense
-offensive ev spread, toxic over flash cannon, and magma storm over lava plume on heatran, maximize damage output overall and cripple fire-resists like mlati@s

final team: https://pokepast.es/97ab7345023ffd0d
some consideration is to go mixed bulk on pex to handle physical attackers like weavile better and running z solar beam heatran

stuck storm
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what you guys thinkhttps://pokepast.es/d863503b57e1364c

gritty scaffold
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That team looks cursed worrywhirl

stuck storm
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elaborate

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@gritty scaffold

gritty scaffold
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The sets

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Like tf is that diancie , blissey , magnezone

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And that manaphy is just walled by stuff like celestella lol

stuck storm
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ok

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you see i normally use sample sets from smogon and i decided to build my own sets

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and yeah that happened

gritty scaffold
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Just use the smogon analysis sets

stuck storm
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thats what i normally use

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anyway thanks for confirming that my team is shit lol @gritty scaffold

gritty scaffold
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Im not rly a rater but if i tried that on ladder i would def just be losing lol

thin light
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They're just that cool

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lol

proven path
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@orchid tiger

orchid tiger
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This looks like cyber’s team worrywhirl

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Blissey should be rocks fwiw and clef should be cm

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Clef also wants unaware hdb a lot of teams in stall

proven path
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Got it

proven path
orchid tiger
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@tribal smelt ^

tribal smelt
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I get the idea

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But in my head and from experience there's some touch ups for teams like this

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I ended up settling for an archetype like this when I wanted to go for the structure of Torn T into Skarm into Pex

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The team itself has issues but your is sound and can win games the issue I have is that your stall match up is incredibly lack luster

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Things like 2 bird (Zapdos Corv Gastro as the structure with LS pex) are relatively common, Quag Rachi Zapdos from CG also has the potential to 1v1 your team with no real effort on their part and you yourself have to try too much to force their hand.

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I get what you're doing though: Forfeiting Defog entirely to make Torn T and Clefable break down their team until they have to give up and defog

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I've seen teams like this around just to abuse the fact that they're faking stall

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I myself dislike piloting these stacks a lot but they aren't bad per se, just not friendly for regular play

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So if you are going for a team like this the changes I dumped are more adequate to the core idea (I also tossed in the regular stall changes to make the team flow a bit better)

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And before this gets auto-corrected: Clear Smog gels better here to give room for a Torn T NP and lets you do fun things like knock -> recover -> switch -> clear smog Demon Mew stacks, you can swap out taunt for sludge bomb to do like 70-80 something to most Koko spike stacks, you can run Toxic -> ID on Skarm to status hail teams and sand, you can hypertweak the EVs on clef, make Clef heal bell + CM with Twave on Blissey to beat tourney issues like Toxic + CM sweepers, you can go back and run taunt on Torn T and run protect/yawn/toxic on Gastrodon to status the fliers or force them to have awkward pivots or absorb Fsight, you can do Thunder on Clefable for neutral damage on Tran and gravely wound Pex/Fini in a 1v1 while having some nicer damage on the odd damage soakers like Zapdos

pseudo stump
#

After doing a mono water run in another game and having WP carracosta as MVP i though I'd give it a shot in ladder

#

Unfortunately it's not in Gen 9 yet so i have to settle for gen 8 OU, but here's this

#

Feel free to yell at me as much as humanly possible lmao idk much about gen 8 or SD as a whole

hazy grotto
#

Celesteela and pex makes a nasty core so I decided to build around that

#

Also so I’m not a victim of Tapu Lele

#

@vast oracle

leaden fiber
#

beware of physkoko

hazy grotto
leaden fiber
#

u just have to play good

hazy grotto
#

I think I should be fine I don’t see a lot of physical Koko anyways

leaden fiber
#

Yea

#

watch out for various cm lele

#

but like

hazy grotto
#

Tbolt cheempao

leaden fiber
#

these teams accept those weaknesses

#

hp fire even

hazy grotto
#

And just clicks heavy slam

leaden fiber
#

u live tbolt too

#

u live anything not named z elec

#

but steela isnt hard to chip

#

if its z elec u cope and complain about mu fishing

hazy grotto
#

ya lol

vast oracle
#

I mean committing to sm stall in general makes you lose to a shitton of stuff already, especially cause standard stallbreakers eat this type of team alive (hc kyub, mmaw, mana rain, magnezone offense, hoopau, etc) and there's nothing you can do building wise without compromising other matchups (including the physical zkoko without running gastro stall)

vast oracle
#

gives you a way to play against annoying CM-ers like magearna, lele, and reuni, especially cause the former can overwhelm physdef pex and the latter can overwhelm physdef msab

#

between mbounce msab + pex absorbing tspikes + pheal gliscor + ncure chansey, status shouldnt be an issue

#

your call though

leaden fiber
#

im not sure about thief egg / lax set

#

six should be fine right?

upper plume
#

seems fine to me tbh

#

could also go stun spore > thief on eggy

#

so you have the double status

peak canyon
#

Hey guys where do you ask help for teem building or is that a thing?

upper plume
#

#comp-general

#

If you have a completed team you come here

unborn solstice
#

cracked 1400 on BW OU

#

probably my new fav metagame

#

i love my sun team

fresh thistle
#

Eggy+Nido is also an unusual combination, they don’t have the best synergy

#

And think this team could also struggle to break stall teams

#

How have you been using the combination of eggy+Nido. What do you usually target with Thief?

unborn solstice
#

anyone have any advice on BW OU?

tribal smelt
#

Things are always happening in BW and you can not let it happen in the favour of your opponent: Either you punish them, or they punish you. Buttons have to be pressed and the doubles you pull to gain a lead have to be aggressive, even on the "stall"-ish variants you have to plan ahead of time

leaden fiber
leaden fiber
#

i think the idea is to lure zap with egg thief/boom and force it to rest more often giving nido more chances to break it

#

im not too familiar with gsc but from what ive seen zap is the main intial switch to both?

#

i think re jynx maybe i do talk lax? mono normal?

upper plume
#

If ur doing resttalk then you typically drop Curse so that you are still able to hit gar

#

Another mon your team doesn't enjoy switching into

unborn solstice
#

with dragon dancers I can usually get one clutch turn to toxic or twave before they spiral out of control

#

but volc is fucking monstrous

#

and can OHKO most things that aren’t heatran

fresh thistle
#

So to check against Jynx you would want a Sleep Talk set

leaden fiber
#

Ah just rest talk normal eq

fresh thistle
#

With golem that would usually be DE/EQ/Rest/ST yea

leaden fiber
#

kk

fresh thistle
#

Golem teams essentially need 2 attack talk lax or raikou to check Jynx

leaden fiber
#

what specifically makes me struggle v stall like u said earlier?

#

ah makes sense

fresh thistle
#

Replacing golem with Ttar to run mono lax is also and option but takes away a bit do the teams identity

leaden fiber
#

eh id prefer not to change the six cheempao

fresh thistle
#

Vs stall you don’t have a great way to remove skarmory

#

And you do not have a ghost to block rapid spin

leaden fiber
#

Ah okay

fresh thistle
#

It’s not impossible to win, but you will essentially need to rely on playing Nidoking very well

leaden fiber
#

Don’t double thief + nido + boomers deal with stall?

#

Hmm

#

Makes sense

#

I was thinking I could also do thief > sleep on egg to deal with mie better, and then do lk > thief on nido?

fresh thistle
#

No, I think Thief nido is important to help vs all the sleep talk Lax running around

#

And at least the team you linked has thief + sleep egg on it

leaden fiber
#

Ye like

#

thief over sleep instead of giga

#

for mie

leaden fiber
fresh thistle
#

Uh yea keep Sleep + Thief

leaden fiber
#

kk

fresh thistle
#

Egg doesn’t really face off too much against Starmie anyway

leaden fiber
#

cool okay

fresh thistle
#

Just watch out for last mon curse lax when using you team

#

It can be difficult to remove if you can’t boom on it

#

Though thieving lefties will help

leaden fiber
#

one last question

#

should i keep lax lead?

fresh thistle
#

Leads aren’t that important in GSC imo

leaden fiber
#

Oh interesting

fresh thistle
#

As long as your lead is one of lax/elec/cloy/sleeper

#

Though I would probably lead eggy most of the time on this team

#

It’s helpful to conceal that your mons have thief

#

And if the opponent gets spikes up, eggy and nido get revealed

#

And might as well try to thief lefties as early in the game as possible

leaden fiber
#

okay thankss

fresh thistle
#

No problem

warped venture
#

https://pokepast.es/a6ad83aafe123cf5
ADVOU
Built totally blind
One thing I'm immediately noticing is that CM Waters are probably an issue (Hi Suicune) but idk what to do abt that sooooo

karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @polar nacelle, @surreal crypt, @old iris. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

warped venture
#

ADV players do your Magic

#

Specifically wanted to build Charizard
I could not name you any particular reason, just wanted to do it.

old iris
#

no rock resist

#

@warped venture i ping cause I forgot to use the answer option

#

that might be fine if you replace starmie my metagross or swampert

#

also, moltres is generally better than zard when you rely on spikes

#

zard's strengh over molt is to be able to kill bliss without spikes by clicking focus punch / beat up

warped venture
#

Should I restructure then?

#

ig just to keep this I could swap out Zard for Molt and go Pert.

old iris
#

not to say Zard can't work, but fire blast/will o wisp + spikes is enough to pressure blissey

warped venture
#

I just wanna get the most out of Zard if I'm gonna use it.

old iris
#

since you lacked a rock resist tho, I'd suggest you to read vapicuno's thread on Archetypes

#

it's a bit old, but you can learn what is necessary for a team to function well

warped venture
#

could you link that?

#

I'm not entirely sure where to find it

leaden fiber
#

its uh

warped venture
#

ty

old iris
#

this thread is a golden mine for a beginner

ember hull
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

ember hull
#

i was wondering if lando t would fit better on this team as a pivot, also i dont really have an answer to kartana so yeah

vast oracle
#

that's just the nature of HOs, you generally cant switch into offensive threats just because you cant afford to run defensive mons. instead, you usually put immense amount of offensive pressure that they cant go in and/or attack you in the first place, or force a trade with your mon instead.

#

For HO, you have mons like hawlucha, magearna, zardx, volc, and kommo-o that can take a hit from kartana and/or threaten it out for setup opportunities. and if they're choice-locked into the wrong move, more mons can then take advantage of it as well (i.e. locked into sacred sword lets your azu set up)

#

Especially since you're running screens, which makes stomaching its attacks much easier

#

lando-t on screens HO is usually not pivot; it's usually the designated suicide lead with stealth rock, which you're currently missing. something like this:

Ability: Intimidate  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
- Swords Dance  
- Stealth Rock  
- Earthquake  
- Explosion / Rock Tomb```
vast oracle
#

Also, is there any specific mon you want to keep? based on the team name, i'm assuming it's just screens centered around mmaw + azu

hazy grotto
#

@vast oracle

#

It shouldn’t be named semi stall

#

that was an old team

vast oracle
#

is that supposed to be offense or like nidoking balance(?)
i.e. what archetype are you looking for

polar nacelle
#

do you still want help on this?

#

do you still want help on this?

onyx cairn
polar nacelle
#

your team wont last if you dont have a sand-resistant rock resist

#

at the same time you could do well with a spinner there

#

because youre going to invite skarm for a little long

#

you can replace gar with meta and put mie in the last slot

surreal tusk
ember hull
vast oracle
# ember hull https://pokepast.es/0dfc2fbb92e5186d sm ou team

if you want to keep the other 5, I recommend some optimizations:
-** sucker punch over iron head on mega mawile**, the steel coverage does nothing for you that play rough + knock off doesnt hit already (only missing mega venusaur, which is very niche in the meta); sucker punch lets you pick off faster threats like volcarona, garchomp, and landorus-t that would otherwise revenge kill you easily. Also, you want to run some speed evs (164 Spe) to outrun walls like skarmory, alomomola, and clefable, especially cause mmaw is usually tasked to demolish these kind of walls.
-252 speed and an offensive item (black glasses / lifeorb) on bisharp to maximize offense. also lets you outspeed defensive heatran, rotom-w, and tapu bulu.
-normalium z over sitrus berry, lets you more reliably use belly drum. Run some speed evs, at least 204 EVs to outspeed uninvested tapu bulu that can otherwise take a +6 aqua jet. knock off over liquidation, lets you deal with ferro and toxapex that resist your stab moves.
(dropping the bulk investment on the above adjustments is even more justifiable cause you have screens to let them take hits & set up easily)

Some suggestions: Dual screens tapu koko over a-ninetales, gives you pivoting with u-turn and boost magearna's thunderbolt. lets you potentially run thunder punch on mmaw (over knock off) to hit toxapex and skarmory harder. with koko, you can drop bisharp for hawlucha for a fast mon (cause you're only relying to priority atm, and magearna isnt even shift gear), and somewhat gives you defensive utility with ground immunity, as your current team kinda falters against mid-speed breakers like sd garchomp and sd lando-t (especially with your triple steel). you also have mmaw + azu that provides knock off already. I get that you want the defiant to punish defog, but punishing their defog attempts offensively by setting up can be similarly effective--just something to consider.

hazy grotto
vast oracle
# hazy grotto https://pokepast.es/87b34f8bb19528af nidoking team

went to bed lel
nidoking balance is certainly a unique take, i found it most effective in standard offenses/BOs though. 6 looks okay at first glance, feel free to lmk if there's any mons you're struggling against with.

  • i'd make rotom-w the electrium Z set with thunder instead, lets you nuke pex for mlop and celesteela for both nido+mlop. water z is used to hit stuff like gliscor, mttar, and heatran, which is already mostly covered by nido+mlop already. spreading para with thunder can also be handy for nidoking, especially if you also run twave over toxic on chansey.
  • run more bulk on torn-t cause it's like your fighting resist against stuff like mlop and mmedi. just hit 204 speed evs for scarf zone and the rest in Def, especially since you have a pain split rotom-w for opposing torn-t.i'd also go taunt over uturn; lets you annoy passive mons between taunt + knock off and improve the stall matchup, which looks atrocious atm
#

the rotom-w set is something like this. same offensive benchmark like the one on smogdex, but runs just enough speed for modest heatran so you can run more bulk. feel free to toy around

Ability: Levitate  
EVs: 232 HP / 92 SpA / 184 Spe  
Modest Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Hydro Pump  
- Volt Switch  
- Thunder  
- Pain Split```
topaz sentinel
#

Made 2 gen 4 ou teams, can i get some suggestions on improvement?

tacit vigil
#

post one at a time

#

@short hedge

leaden fiber
#

oops

topaz sentinel
#

My b, I just wanted to experiment a lot

tacit vigil
#

its fine

leaden fiber
#

think meant putting only one pings rater otherwise doesnt lol

short hedge
#

I like the team

#

The first one

topaz sentinel
#

I thought there were too many water types

short hedge
#

Jolteon is outclassed by other mons but it’s speed tier is top notch

leaden fiber
#

i think a lot of that first team hinges on rachi

#

giving u enough rk ability into anything

short hedge
#

I think maybe going with forretress over starmie as a rapid spinner

#

Adds good defensive synergy

#

Why starmie?

topaz sentinel
#

I thought fortress sucks

short hedge
#

No it’s good

topaz sentinel
#

A rapid spinner that’s fast and has good coverage

short hedge
#

You will get pursuit trapped and killed very easily

#

With tyranitar

#

Or scizor

#

And not much you can do since you’re not running LO

leaden fiber
#

idk if u even need a spinner

#

smth like a bronzong would be cool

topaz sentinel
#

Trick room bronzing?

short hedge
#

Bronzing wouldn’t be a bad option either

leaden fiber
#

standard rocks boom stuff

topaz sentinel
#

Over starmie?

leaden fiber
#

tr is weird when all ur mons are fast

topaz sentinel
#

Yeah u right

leaden fiber
#

i think zong gives u more cplay into dders like nite/gyara outside of just

#

"hope gyara isnt wacan and rk with rachi"

topaz sentinel
#

Bronzong seems like u can only explode on gyra

short hedge
#

2nd team you should change rotom and give gengar life orb

leaden fiber
topaz sentinel
#

Who should I replace rotom with

topaz sentinel
short hedge
#

Uturn ape wouldn’t be bad tbh

#

Also give rachi thunder punch on the 2nd team

#

Gyara could be a threat

topaz sentinel
#

Replace which move with that

short hedge
#

Fire punch

topaz sentinel
#

Kk

leaden fiber
#

occa gives u mixnape cplay

topaz sentinel
#

Scarf or life orbinfernape? And mixed or all physical?

#

If I go life orb gengar should I keep the set I already have or use attacking moves to take advantage of the extra power

#

Lastly with the first team, should I use starmie, bronzong or foretress and which set

short hedge
#

Forretress

#

Spikes rapid spin gyro explo / payback

#

U can go phys def

#

I’d go with lefties ape

topaz sentinel
#

Mixed or physical infernape? Uturn, cc, flare blitz, t punch?

wraith mulch
#

(someone passed me this) https://pokepast.es/9efc6f024eae80d7 is there a way to make the team not reliant on mlop as its sole breaker? i accidently let it get esiped and had to constantly stack hazard pressure for the next 50 turns or so, knocking, stossing and chipping before i won. its a route for sure but is there a more offensive spin to this

#

tagging @vast oracle because chatot didnt

leaden fiber
#

its mlop semistall u kinda have to do that

#

thats the point

#

obv reun can kinda do smth but it has to run from a buncha mons

vast oracle
# wraith mulch (someone passed me this) https://pokepast.es/9efc6f024eae80d7 is there a way to ...

Thats just the nature of MLop fat, which is a tried and true structure we’ve seen countless times actually. Mlop isnt even a breaker in these kind of teams; it’s a speed control & anti-offense mon cause of its speed tier + double prio, helps you play around setup sweepers that can overwhelm the team. The original gameplan of the team has always been slowly chipping down foes with passive dmg (mostly hazards) for reuni or mlop to clean up

#

If you want a more offensive approach with Mlop, then pretty much the whole team needs to be changed unfortunately

wraith mulch
#

Ic, thanks

quick leaf
#

@leaden fiber

leaden fiber
#

ditch dug offpert ttar and just go spikes mixoff

#

or something

#

skarm dug is strange

quick leaf
#

whys that

leaden fiber
#

spike and dug usually deal with same thing

quick leaf
#

see the idea was that if skarm gets magged

#

i can dug the mag

leaden fiber
#

well

#

skarm dug stuff the point is

#

u remove mag before skarm can be dugged

quick leaf
#

that works too

leaden fiber
#

and then u skimp on actual ddmence or whatever checks

quick leaf
#

but my backup steel is rachi

#

incase skarm gets magged

leaden fiber
#

@blazing elbow figure this out

#

:d

#

cant think rn i have a buncha shit i need to finish this weekend

blazing elbow
#

uhm i gotta go in a few minutes too but also rmt is for complete teams

leaden fiber
#

LOL

quick leaf
#

oopsie

#

my bad

gritty scaffold
#

Ive tried doing a team with kabutops on although unsure if i should change here or if kabutops isnt just rly viable anymore https://pokepast.es/ea448668b1a676da RBY OU btw ping reply pls

karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @weak mirage, @red delta, @night bridge. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

night bridge
# gritty scaffold Ive tried doing a team with kabutops on although unsure if i should change here ...

i don’t think you can get away with no chansey + shitmon like this, EQ reflect lax just stomps you super hard and offensive lax is hard to switch into. lead jynx also looks absurdly hard to stop, dedge eggy at least stops it from forcing eggy sleep onto jynx but this is still pretty brutal to switch into, and your team is completely smoked by zapdos. the obvious feedback is just “remove kabutops” because i don’t think it’s possible to account for those problems and keep kabu on this team, so this ends up as a heavy matchup fish.

if you’re playing for an aggressive line where you hit counter on a reflax to remove it, you would do better leading a sleeper so you can go hard lax right after hitting sleep; i also think in general if you wanna run shitty swords dancers, lead sleep helps you get early chances to use them semi effectively and force people to switch into slash. i’d rather have more twave in back and less up front; maybe try leading Jynx or even double powder Eggy and in back, Zam+Chansey? it could be reflect chansey, which gives you a Lax answer and twave spreader in case it’s EQ lax or you don’t get the Counter line, freeing up your lax as a wallbreaker. idk, as long as there’s a kabu there will always be big flaws but hopefully some of these ideas help, ultimately any of these ideas still are a MU fish sadly

gritty scaffold
#

kk thanks ill try out prob ill just gonna put chansey instead of kabutops then

slim glacier
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

slim glacier
#

been working out really well for me

#

kyurem has been really clutch and great as long as I can get him in safely, but I was thinking of swapping him out for specs tapu lele to deal with stall easier

leaden gate
#

3 water mons feels wrong ngl

dry bay
# slim glacier https://pokepast.es/3d2692a03c1cbad4 my gen 7 ou team

Not a rater but, I don't like ur Kyurem's set. Z mixed kyurem works here plus make ur lando more defensive to bodysome MMedi's hits. Make kartana scarf with sacred sword to pressure opposing scarf Tapu lele. Swap washtom for AV Mag ig. and do spikes > Grassknot on Ash-Gren. Do u-turn > Knock off on lando too. I will ping @vast oracle for more specific rates on this team..

#

I still worry abt MMedi's MU ngl

vast oracle
# slim glacier https://pokepast.es/3d2692a03c1cbad4 my gen 7 ou team

You have no answers to tapu lele and mega alakazam (especially CM variants of the latter, cause the mon faster than it on your team--rotomw--cant do anything back either). So biggest change is going for AV magearna over toxapex; gives you your spdef steel and another pivot to bring in your offensive mons while still checking agren like pex. It's also less passive, making it fit better on these offensive structures.

#

some minor changes:

  • Run icium z kyurem-b instead, gives you a stronger nuke in general, especially against checks like ferro. Aside from the awful position you get from being locked, outrage is not needed cause it doesnt cover anything that KB's boltbeam coverage does already. Instead, Ice beam is better for a more reliable stab move for mons like lando-t and gliscor without wasting your z move (or having to charge for freeze shock). Optional, but sub can be used over roost to take advantage of passive mons like pex and non-gyro ferro as well as forced switches, as they tryto play around your zmove.
#
  • Scarf kartana for speed control, especially since it can clean up more easily with KB and Agren's punching holes early-game. If you still want to run SD, i think fightiniumz is better to deal with msciz, which helps KB a lot. (and in general, normaliumz is better than steeliumz anyways, since the former also covers zapdos)
#
  • With kart as the scarfer, you can run a more defensive spread on rotom-w to pivot into stuff like msciz, zardy, and volc better, something you missed out on without pex. gives you a defogger too, so you dont have to cram in both defog + rocks on lando. Optional, but you can make rotom-w pain split (change item to lefties) over defog (and then making kart the defogger) to annoy chansey for Agren.
#
  • Water shuriken + spikes over grass knot + ice beam on agren. ice beam only hits tapu bulu & av tangrowth, which KB deals with very easily, and grass knot doesn't really hit any relevant targets that water+dark already does. Water shuriken gives you a way to revenge kill setup sweepers or generally fast mons like volc, zardx, and mlop that can be very problematic. Spikes chips checks like fini, pex, and chansey easier as well as steel-types like heatran and msciz for your KB.
#
  • Run U-turn on lando-t for another pivot. Last moveslot is pretty customizable: hp fire to check kart better; toxic or smack down for pre-mega zardX, torn-t, zapdos, and celesteela; or you can keep knock it's fine.
vast oracle
tropic schooner
#

hone claws kyub propoganda lfg

dry bay
dry bay
#

Might try that set

vast oracle
dry bay
torpid terrace
#

https://pokepast.es/6c5056c338156ca8
Heres my sm ou team, mainly built around kartana and magnezone as stallbreakers, and then lopunny and greninja to clean.
I'm using scarf greninja to beat mega alakazam, because my team doesnt have another good way of dealing with it. Kartana has no item because ive yet to decide between normal, steel or some other z.
For all i know this team may be trash wo since im not that good with teambuilding
(composed almost entirely of smogon sets)
I also just realised that on this one greninja has spikes, on my actual team i ran it with u turn.

karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak canyon
# torpid terrace https://pokepast.es/6c5056c338156ca8 Heres my sm ou team, mainly built around ka...

if greninja is your only way of dealing with zam, you're probably gonna want to run u turn over spikes (i saw your last message)
lopunny also deals decent damage to zam, it's not gonna want ot stay in to a fake out from lopunny especially if you have hazards up
chansey if you're actually struggling with it
double choice is always a little bit icky in my opinion, double hidden power is also not optimal especially when you have other pokemon
why do you have 4 hp and 4 def on magnezone?
i think you're better off replacing magnezone, might want to ask some more people because I haven't played gen 7 ou in a long time

#

also is zam that common???

#

ive barely ever seen anyone use zam

hazy grotto
#

Full health

#

I think

hazy grotto
#

It’s fits better on ash

#

Because you do more damage

#

And since shuriken is like for killing faster threats

#

Don’t really need it

#

Since you’re scarf anyways

#

Also you need a defogger

hazy grotto
peak canyon
peak canyon
#

hidden power usually isn't going to be that effective

#

a x2 hp fire lets say

#

you do juts as well with flash cannon due to stab

#

and thudnerbolt does more damage

#

i guess you can guarantee a ferro kill with magnet pull but idk about anything else

hazy grotto
#

That’s why it runs hp fire

peak canyon
#

ah

hazy grotto
#

HP ice Lando is fine

peak canyon
#

i ahve been using it wrong

hazy grotto
#

Hits Gliscor

#

And other Lando

peak canyon
#

i see

#

ive been away from gen 7 for too long

#

also kartana should just run a z move or LO

#

no z mvoe is a waste

hazy grotto
#

I’ve seen it before but I don’t really like the passive damage it takes

#

From orb

#

Plus it uses SD anyways

#

that’s just my opinion tho

#

LO is an option

peak canyon
#

i didn't sese the sd

#

mb

hazy grotto
#

Also

#

He is using the kart on a more of balanced team

peak canyon
#

what does normalium z sd even do

hazy grotto
#

So I think it should have some longevity

peak canyon
#

since when does kartana get defog

solid cradle
#

like i dont disagree that those might be somewhat bad signs but its also often totally fine

#

and double hp i think is nonsense tbh

peak canyon
#

double scarf usually isn't good

#

just get some better speed control

peak canyon
#

i think it works on the team though

solid cradle
#

as in there's no use in saying 'oh this team has 2 hp users its bad'

peak canyon
#

because of the specific mons its hitting

solid cradle
#

yeah like usually hp is for a specific target

peak canyon
#

ye

#

also i think the team's lacking hazard removal

solid cradle
#

volc offenses that want double defog and have a normal defogger so its kinda a 1.5 defog team

peak canyon
#

how is it even decent

#

its got aboslutely no bulk

#

it gets tapped by any supereffective move

hazy grotto
#

Defog kart is just an emergency defogger

solid cradle
#

yea

peak canyon
#

ic

solid cradle
#

if shit is Bad it can defog away

#

like it isnt a Good defogger but defog is useful enough as a 4th move

#

also if eg you force a swap bc you're threatening a revenge thats a decent chance to defog

#

theres some really weird sd leaf blade synthesis defog stuff ive seen very rarely but thats kinda just nonsense

peak canyon
#

smogon moment

torpid terrace
#

Yeah I was using magnezone as a check to cela, skarm and ferro. Megazam isn’t too common, it’s a niche lategame cleaner, but usually gren is used a lot more.

#

What should I use over water shuriken?

#

Also yeah I realised I needed a defogger, but not sure where to slap it

#

I was gonna run z kart, but still don’t know which to run

vast oracle
#

Was asleep, i’ll rate your team in a bit

peak canyon
#

me personally my favorite fogger is tornadus

peak canyon
peak canyon
#

uh ice beam works i guess

#

just run some sort of coverae

torpid terrace
peak canyon
#

if you run ash gren timid scarf you might as well run protean

torpid terrace
torpid terrace
peak canyon
#

stealth rock

torpid terrace
#

Oh

peak canyon
#

wait actually i don't nkwo if protean scarf works better than ash gren

#

protean works the best with LO imo

torpid terrace
#

Yeah makes sense

#

Since you want to switch moves for coverage

#

I’ll run just enough speed to outspeed megazam then

#

I do have some probs with pex, nothing on my team removes it well

#

And I probably just want defog on lando, but I’m not sure what to run it over

solid cradle
#

zap, torn

torpid terrace
#

What bout pex

peak canyon
tacit vigil
#

+2 252 Atk Kartana Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 310-365 (101.9 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO

solid cradle
#

yea breakneck off of giga impact is insane

torpid terrace
#

I see, what about spdef pex?

#

Actually might not matter

#

Since +0 wouldn’t kill

vast oracle
#

Biggest change is to replace pex with another bulky water in tapu fini, which is far less passive for this sort of offenses. Gives you a defogger and provides misty terrain, which gives your teammates more setup/switchin opportunities, like lets your kart sd freely in front of pex, non-foul play msab, and rotomw. (has the added benefit of replacing lele's terrain too, letting mlop + agren use their prios). Taunt + nmadness annoys things like pex, clef, chansey, and non-whip ferro for your mlop + agren, with taunt to prevent stuff like volc, zardx, and magearna from getting out of control too.

#

minor set changes:

  • scarf agren is unfortunately bad; hits like a wet noodle, which gives it a hard time transforming, especially since it has water shuriken to somewhat provide a speed control option already. Specs agren is better here and is generally the standard set.
  • Give kartana normalium z + giga impact, just a generally strong neutral nuke into checks like zapdos, torn-t, mlatias, and tangrowth, especially cause you have zone to remove the steel types.
  • Scarf magnezone is generally used on fat balances (like chansey + slowbro + gliscor builds) to dispose off sd kartana, which is problematic. Since you're running offense and there's 2 mons faster than it and chase it out, I recommend using either AV + Mirror coat or Chople + twave sets for role compression, as they both help soft checks things like tapu lele, mega alakazam, and magearna while still trapping the steels for your offensive core. rare but chople variants also help you deal with superpower turbo msciz for kart too.
  • Idt you need ice coverage on both lop and lando-t here imo since you have sd kart and agren for all the grounds. instead, smack down on lando-t to threaten zapdos and celes for kart and mlop, and pup on mlop to pressure bulkier teams in general.
#

team should look something like this: https://pokepast.es/9607f6aa65554222
some other considerations you can go for or try to toy with:

  • run sd rockiumz lando to overwhelm the birds & steels for scarf kartana, which means you dont need magnezone as much and thus can run a sturdier steel like av mag or jirachi
  • protean greninja over ashgren with z-dig + gunkshot to lure in pex and pressure clef for mlop
  • quick attack on mlop for more speed control, further insurance against faster stuff like mega zam and boosted threats to compensate for lack of scarfer
  • customizing magnezone's ev spread. currently, it outspeeds uninvested mega scizor. you can try to add more bulk, for instance 244 HP / 208 SpA / 56 SpD to live 2 specs lele's hp fire after rocks

if there's some matchups/mons that give you issues for your original team or just general q's, feel free to lmk

hazy grotto
#

Defog and rocks Lando is used a lot

onyx cairn
torpid terrace
#

Mk, tysm

hazy grotto
#

My friend gave me the idea of mega heracross webs

#

Seems pretty OP

#

Since heracross is insanely powerful

#

@vast oracle

torpid terrace
tribal smelt
#

SM rates would not be the same without royals care and effort

torpid terrace
#

ty royal

vast oracle
#

you dont want to run defog on webs either, cause you pretty much waste shuckle's slot. When building webs, i tend to stack taunts instead, especially cause i gravitate to using mgyara

#

i'd say go for np thundy-t and cm magearna over dnite and lando here. you still have the defensive utility from ground immunity and volt switch blocker, but both also improves the matchup against lucha and serp, both of which can just straight up 6-0 webs

#

oh also magearna helps you against scarf lele cause it just clicks moonblast and you have 3 prio users (on webs!) that become useless cause of the terrain

#

optional but i usually still tend to run a fast mon even when running webs just for insurance. Best choice is usaully serp, helps dissuade defog with contrary as well as counter leads mega diancie, which would otherwise shut down shuckle completely

vast oracle
#

@torpid terrace we can have a slightly more different approach to your team. whats the pokemon/core the original team built around? just magnezone + offensive threats?

torpid terrace
vast oracle
#

all good

vast oracle
torpid terrace
#

Heres something im interested in.
https://pokepast.es/20a3915be57830d7
overall idea is a more defensive team, which allows kyurem b to break holes in the opponents team and megazam to clean up. Dont know who to put as 6th, maybe another fast threat to threaten any stallbreaker mons, or just another threat for reliability?

#

take out hpice on lando, forgot to do that

vast oracle
#

Just letting you know we cant rate incomplete teams btw (as per r4). Though team looks okay so far, feel free to polish it further and come back with a full 6

torpid terrace
#

Oh, sorry about that, will do.

#

https://pokepast.es/1cae96fa1aaa4b27
I slapped on av magearna in the last slot to match up better against opposing megazam as well as having another pivot
What i said before about the team still applies.
Im not sure whether magearna and heatran fit on the same team, however i dont notice any glaring issues

vast oracle
#

make landorus-t the choice scarf user for speed control to outspeed opposing megazam, and give heatran stealth rock over protect instead, especially cause KB helps pressure defoggers like gliscor and tapu fini that would otherwise beat rocks heatran

#

run roost over ep on kyub, keeps yourself healthy so you can switch into things life rotom-w, pex, and heatran (especially cause you have fini's terrain to keep you safe from their status) and lets you take hits from mons like mega swampert

#

feel free to experiment on which defogger you prefer, between torn-t, fini, and lando-t, or hp fire on megazam (maybe over sball) to nuke msciz for KB

peak canyon
#

it does get to use rocks and defog

#

but then it ust dies

#

unless it's in on specific mons

hazy grotto
peak canyon
#

but two turns with a defensive set

#

come on

hazy grotto
#

Two turns?

#

Huh

peak canyon
#

i like to keep my defogger and my rocker seperate

hazy grotto
#

Bro your Lando shouldn’t be dying in two Turns

hazy grotto
#

On one set

peak canyon
#

which is what i just said

#

about lando

#

rocks + defog makes defogging more inconsistent

#

your lando has two roles that it needs ot fulfill

#

doesn't have the best bulk either

#

but it does get stab eq with base 140

hazy grotto
#

I thought you meant the rocks and defog sets were bad nvm

peak canyon
#

yea i probably worded itbad

#

what does wallbreaker lando get walled by

#

i remember running it once for funny

polar nacelle
#

Make starmie timid so that u can emergency twave stuff like superrachi

hazy grotto
#

If you use like SD Z not a lot

#

But if you burn through their Z then Tangrowth walls it

#

Unless it’s Fly Z

#

Unaware quagsire walls too

#

Fly Z Lando gets walled by Skarm btw

#

And Rotom wash

torpid terrace
vast oracle
# torpid terrace I see, tysm. Just had a few questions, what is lando t and tort t outspeeding? A...
  • lando-t: +1 kommo-o (includes mega zam). Just the standard onsite spread, with def to live +2 lucha acro after rocks. you can certainly toy with scarf lando spread here, pretty customizable
  • torn-t: scarf magnezone (includes serp & kartana) and less speed means you usually get the slow uturn off against opposing torn-t so you gain the momentum most of the time. You can run max hp/max speed if you still choose though
  • heatran: adamant crawdaunt
torpid terrace
#

👍

onyx cairn
polar nacelle
#

Ur gonna be winning by healing not winning by damage on this team

polar nacelle
onyx cairn
#

I've tried using it as a switch when skarm is down but it can't tank it very well when its not on 100%

#

I know I'm definitely wrong I just want to understand more

polar nacelle
polar nacelle
onyx cairn
#

it does thank you

#

also a thing with using the team, how should I be punishing forre? i have no fire moves so i have been struggling to stop it from just maxing spikes and exploding @polar nacelle

wraith mulch
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

vast oracle
# wraith mulch sm, inspired by mhera webs from a few days ago https://pokepast.es/c0a58a6e2a321...

looks fine, maybe run a different wallbreaker over kart, like specs lele. kart doesnt really cover stuff that serp + mhera already does. instead, lele overwhelms heatran for serp, and psychic terrain to protect your 'fast' teammates from priority & power up victini's stored power. helps pressure mlati@s for serp & victini too, especially if it's paralyzed. mhera + victini threatens the steels for it in return too

#

(team is very weak to stuff like scarf lando clicking eq or hawlucha unless you run something like thundy-t or gyara, but webs as a playstyle is very cheesy and very all-or-nothing anyways, though you can certainly slot the lele or vic with the aforementioned gyara or thundy-t and see which you prefer)

#

oh also, run hp ground over hp fire on ribombee (hits heatran for serp) and rock tomb over toxic on exca (you want to slow down & pressure non-grounded threats like zapdos, torn-t, & mlati that dont get affected by webs)

wraith mulch
wraith mulch
#

and is it just a webs thing that they nearly auto lose to certain mons/styles?

vast oracle
#

Pretty much, generally inconsistent but can just autowin the right (and specific) matchup

vast oracle
wraith mulch
#

in general with a team like this would i go ribombee->sack ribombee->exca->sack exca-> hope offense wins

#

and also would i ever switch outside of a hard read on what they are gonna do

vast oracle
vast oracle
#

You might be able to switch around with stuff like vic into zardy, mhera into choice-locked kart & bulu, but other than that it can be very risky, especially if they get too low to set up for later

vast oracle
#

@wraith mulch forgot to say earlier but if you dont like being choice-locked (especially on these sort of offenses where a single loss turn can be detrimental), you can run CM + twisted spoon lele instead

wraith mulch
polar nacelle
#

it can lay spikes but u can spin them off too

#

u could also try dpeck on skarm

#

but if anything i think id use dpeck more for gar than for forre

tribal jewel
#

@vast oracle if theres one time other than stall to climb ladder what would it be in your opinion

vast oracle
solid cradle
#

any good team should be able to climb ladder

rain pine
#

Can I post a team with ursaluna even tho it's not quite out yet, or should I hold off

upper plume
#

Idt ursaluna is in a past gen format

#

What format do you want an RMT for?

hasty ingot
#

Ursaluna is my favorite ADV OU mon

rain pine
#

Tryna do nat dex ou

#

Can I post a team with ursaluna there?

upper plume
#

ye

#

eh

#

idk

#

ask in there

fringe wing
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid terrace
vast oracle
#

you have:

  • double taunt to stop setup & defog
  • lando-t intimidate
  • offensive pressure from scarf lando + kb + mzam that they shouldnt set up as easily
  • rocks heatran being supported by kb to beat defoggers like gliscor fini rotomw lando-t to keep rocks up
    so you should have enough tools to considerably manage them
#

you can change torn-t for zapdos to improve the sub dd mence (very niche threat and it's kinda designed to beat bulkier team anyways, just chalk it up to matchup issue)

#

pex is fine, but will make your team more passive. if that's the case, make one of torn-t or lando-t the defogger and consider sub over roost on KB

#

@torpid terrace

torpid terrace
#

I see, I’ll experiment with a few things, ty

leaden gate
#

gen 7 ou

wraith mulch
#

chatot fr lol

#

@vast oracle

vast oracle
#

gm

vast oracle
# leaden gate https://pokepast.es/180bce447a8d3a71
  • I think msciz is better over mmaw here for its defensive utility against things like lele, mzam, and kartana, the latter of which looks to be problematic. msciz also gives you a pivot while still being a decent wincon, especially with vic + weavile + kart to overwhelm or deal with its checks. can run defog utility sets too (double defog to support weavile + vic)
  • z vic outside of dedicated HOs is pretty bad because of its all-or-nothing nature; in builds like these, being able to use its defensive profile early-game to soft check stuff like hp fire lele, some magearna variants, and zardY is pretty valuable, something zceleb sets cant afford to do. thus, i'd recommend choice scarf instead. gives you a pivot again, especially cause it tends to invite in mega lati@s so weavile can come in and pursuit trap them easily. its last 2 attacks are pretty customizeable; trick and gambit lets you cripple or straight up remove stuff like pex and heatran for weavile & msciz (running both moves mean you can threaten pex + heatran cores yourself too, just remember to run 252hp on gambit variants), but you can opt for attacking moves as well.
  • with victini as speed control, SD kart gives you another wallbreaker (also compensates for the lack of mega mawile), with normal z + giga impact to nuke zapdos for msciz.
  • toxic on landot feels useless with fini's misty terrain (mlati gets pursuit trapped or gambited anyways). i recommend smack down cause similar to toxic, you can still pressure zapdos and torn-t with it, but also both skarm and celesteela to open up weavile + kart + msciz more.
  • team has no consistent heatran switchins so i'd recommend either tapu fini or lando-t to run enough speed to at least outspeed modest variants
leaden gate
#

holy

#

ok let me read

vast oracle
leaden gate
#

alright thanks

vast oracle
#

nw :>

calm charm
#

Gen 7 OU

neon raptor
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @orchid tiger, @hasty ingot. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

neon raptor
#

I realize this looks very close to another HO.

orchid tiger
#

I was about to say that worrywhirl

void vigil
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @weak mirage, @red delta, @night bridge. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

night bridge
# void vigil https://pokepast.es/047df9cafaaa4613 My first team RBY team.

you should have a snorlax, always, drop the persian for lax, don’t lead tauros, remove stomp and ice beam for body slam and blizzard, take sub and hyper beam off zapdos and put thunder wave and agility, you chansey set is entirely awful and should be either boltbeam twave softboiled or reflect toss twave softboiled probably, your starmie should have twave and recover and probably be the lead, leech seed and poisonpowder are worthless, change to psychic and stun spore

#

i highly recommend using a sample instead of just choosing random moves on all your mons, none of these have legitimate sets

#

i can’t even really make nuanced critiques because it’s just a nonfunctional team rn

void vigil
#

I expected as such. I would like to maintain a Persian if I could but other than that, this is great advice so far thank you.

night bridge
#

if you want to keep persian keep it with Lax, you can cut zapdos

void vigil
#

Thanks

hazy grotto
#

Hazard stack team

solid cradle
vast oracle
#

why hp grass mlati? it gets energy ball anws if you want the grass coverage

#

just run thunder/twave or smth

vast oracle
# calm charm https://pokepast.es/e9d0f394164f0ee7 Thoughts?
  • physical z koko looks out of place here, i think making it cm fairium z is better on these balance builds.
  • ferro over celesteela as your spdef steel for spikes, supports cm clef and cm koko to chip down mons like heatran and ferro (another ash gren answer too cause your pex is mostly physdef and better matchup against rain in general)
  • make glisc rocks and mlati defog, so you can run something else on clef. twave can work, but a coverage like thunder (esp in terrain) or flamethrower is also fine. consider life orb if you decide to run coverage too

opposing cm-ers, mostly reuni, can be mad annoying. consider taunt on gliscor if this becomes an issue
ps. run jolly gliscor over careful to give you more stats

neon raptor
hazy grotto
#

Misclick

solid cradle
gritty scaffold
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @weak mirage, @red delta, @night bridge. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

night bridge
#

triple KO chans might be a bit excessive with an eggy in back, the main thing im seeing here is your team is horrifically weak to jynx and not great into cloy either

#

I'm not sure why Tauros has Fblast, either

#

IMO - chansey should drop sing for Twave, and egg may consider Dedge > Drain so you can break through an opposing jynx and get your sleep somewhere

gritty scaffold
#

oo

gritty scaffold
gritty scaffold
night bridge
#

fblast is really not as good in that mu as people treat it

#

for tauros war if you keep zam unparalyzed you're pretty safe to try to trade in most games

#

caveat of "pay attention to your game state" obv

#

im talking about late late

gritty scaffold
#

i see

#

mayb i could try then surf + bolt mie so i wouldnt be that bad agaisnt jynx lead aswell cloyster and use blizzard on tauros

night bridge
#

you can lead surfbolt if you want sure but really your lead is gonna be the sleep-taker

#

mainly it’s just that you’re surfing jynx which is mie’s best move into it by a lot

#

maybe consider toss on chans as well to not get rolled by these jynx matchups since chansey can’t touch it

#

in which case eggy doesn’t need dedge but can have it

#

up to you

gritty scaffold
#

kk sure

hazy grotto
#

@vast oracle

#

friend gave me an idea

#

Of mega Mawile

#

Semi stall

vast oracle
#

that is certainly a concept, though team looks more like fat instead of semistall

#

the fattest mmaw structure that's been around looks something like this, and even then, it's more balance

image.png
#

not having pivots for mmaw sucks in these sort of teams. on that team above, with wish support from chansey, mmaw can usually trade with a lot of stuff

#

if you're aiming for semistall, i guess you can go rocks chansey over heatran

#

or, if you dont mind dropping spikes, you can go for wish clef or slowbro over skarm (gives a proper fighting resist while being a ground answer too + you still have torn-t for kart)

#

run flyinium z over rocky helmet on torn-t too, lets you take kart's knock better and gives you a more accurate nuke against things like sd bulu and the rare mvenu, the latter is an issue for mmaw

#

the mega swampert and zardx matchup is atrocious so just be careful with them

topaz sentinel
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @short hedge. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

short hedge
#

Maybe consider starmie > gengar

#

Life orb hydro pump, rapid spin, ice beam, thunderbolt

#

Entry hazards could be problematic for the team

topaz sentinel
#

oh bummer i wanted to use a team w Gengar, guess ill have to make a new one

short hedge
#

Mainly ape and gross

#

You can keep gengar

topaz sentinel
#

should i replace metagross w starmie?

short hedge
#

Def consider pain split and substitute

#

You can

topaz sentinel
#

the gengar set w life orb or black sludge?

#

heres the updated team

#

lmk if this gengar set is better than the previous or if i should go a diff one, and if i should replace anyone else

tribal smelt
karmic geyserBOT
#

New OU RMT @azure torrent, @orchid tiger, @hasty ingot. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tribal smelt
#

I did forfeit the Bandtar weakness so the rest of the team can function into sand (which has been an issue for shedinja +2bird for a long while)

#

Logic behind the EVs and zero electric immunity is that you can sort of blanket the electrics with Chansey + Clef

#

Which means you have potential to put them all on timers

#

And the ghost weakness is big but greedy protects on Shedinja can mean your Chansey never gets tricked (which is pretty nice)

#

From memory you can deal with sub + CM sets with Pex and Shedinja, I can't really go for cute EVs on Clef since it does have to come in actively often enough

#

And bell + CM means reun teams are not super comfortable

#

Which they usually are into 2bird since Blissey often goes heal bell to make Clef the wincon

#

Otherwise its' usual 2bird antics, PP stall every single rocker in the tier, fish for burns/hit toxic on Landorus, pray you never load into Bandtar

#

And I wanted the greedier rocky helmet ID on corv to make Shifu die and Kart to be hurt by knock

quick leaf
#

theres a shedinja

#

this is meant to be for serius teams

#

i thought.

#

if you want to run shedinja though

#

run boots please

#

shed is trash though

tribal smelt
#

I have 96 effective defogs

#

And while arbitrary Shedinja still sits in C- and its' fun to try and make it more viable

gritty scaffold
#

Last shedinja player alive clodpog

quick leaf
#

for a reason

#

( the reason is shedinja sucks)

tribal smelt
#

This is not helpful.

hazy grotto
#

Tera electric shedninja alomotrolla

tropic schooner
tribal smelt
#

I think Fsight has issues if Corv stays in and fishes BP but yeah usual Shedinja stall issues, Toxic Koko I have to scout which gets annoying but it feels like Chansey permasits, I think Gking gets annoyed with Pex and I could shittily tweak Pex into speed to creep, Bandtar is Bandtar I don't think I can ever win that MU without pre-emptive combat

tropic schooner
#

Against fsight theres this small issue of helm slowbro staying in and scalding

#

So you cant 100% stay in with corv

tribal smelt
#

Yeah and having to pay the Weavile knock tax on Clef/Chansey/Blissey is ugly for long term

#

Playable but you know. SS OU moment.

tropic schooner
#

And theres also the very real issue of blace present

#

Like blacelele just

#

Owns you

tribal smelt
#

Farms unless I double shed or get a knock predict with Pex lol

tropic schooner
#

But then again

#

Idk how to fix these in a shed team

#

No ground is just really ass

#

Funnily enough i think zera also 6-0s this

tribal smelt
#

Those two interactions have set this old team into the "can bring but don't expect a clean win"

#

Like.. It has some stupid favours and some ugly ugly compromises

#

Which Shedinja stall always has struggled with