NatDex Other Tiers

[solemn zodiac]

the other thing is that you are fighting against pokemon like mega rayquaza calyrex shadow and arceus in national dex ag

i dont think these mons can hold up very well against any viable ndag team

[random wadi]

not even ubers are having mercy on this 😭

[solemn zodiac]

or even ndubers for that matter

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/123092214b6f0195 this lowkey feels like garbage

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[solemn zodiac]

for starters choicers on hyper offense is almost always a bad idea in most tiers

but even then said choicers like. barely even benefit from webs at all???

the movesets for the other mons are also kinda weird

esp on smeargle if they like lead setup zyg into smeargle u kinda just lose on the spot

[low juniper]

smeargle needs perish song or whirlwind (ideally the former) to beat substitute mons that want to setup in its face (aka dd zygarde); drop burning bulwark for it. U also want either mortal or rapid spin to remove opposing hazards (such as against deoS) so get rid of stone axe for it; not having stealth rock sounds bad but it isnt necessary a lot of the time assuming you have the right team comp

flutter mane is a niche choice already but specs is just bad; as soon as u click anything that isnt power gem hooh can come right in and click defog. youre better off using taunt 3a with life orb (you also dont need modest thats just greedy)... but even then just run lunala or marshadow instead, theyre way better

u could keep eruptdon if u want to but personally i wouldnt since its just a free defog for giratina-o, and even defensive hooh since youre using rock tomb which doesnt even ohko it; id rather use groundceus or chi yu instead

dont use phero its just the hooh/girao situation again; just use zacc or marsh or ekiller

yvel is mostly fine but nuke uturn, why are u pivoting, better off using smth like heat wave to beat zacc better or sucker to punish unecro harder

also could go tera fire on it but its up to u

finally for etern just drop flamethrower and use fire blast not being able to ohko zacc is terrible imo

https://pokepast.es/4517d6c7ab6d7e13

[random wadi]

252+ SpA Eternatus Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 252-298 (77.5 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO even with fire blast it's not one-shotting so it does need the stat boost
+1 252+ SpA Eternatus Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 310-366 (95.3 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO, with flamethrower it still has a decent chance to one shot it, and I just prefer consistency overall the acc can make or break a sweep

[low juniper]

why are we modest etern

[random wadi]

I mean in sticky webs focusing too much on speed doesn't really make sense, it should be abused in damage

[low juniper]

ngl modest is just greedy

if webs do get removed or denied somehow then ur dealing with an etern slower than marshadow

[random wadi]

is that a bad thing?

[low juniper]

can be yeah

idet etern needs the extra power

+1 etern is strong enough as it is

[random wadi]

when tanks like ho-oh or giri exist it's better be safe then sorry

[low juniper]

hooh just gets nuked by mbeam

and girao vs etern

[random wadi]

+1 252 SpA Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Giratina: 452-534 (89.6 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO, with timid even a super effective moves from an already boosted spa stat has a decent chance at not one-shotting, I hate rng to my core so I won't bother trying to depend on a lower chance to ko

[low juniper]

i mean like

if u wanna run modest then fine but personally i wouldnt

not tryna be rude ofc but i prefer consistent speed even on webs

[random wadi]

no you're fine dude 😭, but ye it's fine if you think that I just prefer to get as much advantage of webs as possible for damage so even when they get webs off it won't change anything. also what set for lunala and marsh i should use?

[low juniper]

Lunala @ Power Herb
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Fairy / Fighting
Timid Nature

• Meteor Beam
• Moongeist Beam
• Moonblast / Focus Blast
• Psyshock / Calm Mind / Moonlight

Marshadow @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Ghost / Stellar
Jolly Nature

• Bulk Up / Rock Tomb
• Spectral Thief / Poltergeist
• Low Kick
• Shadow Sneak

[random wadi]

is bulk up really good in marsh? isn't it a bit too frail to survive?

[low juniper]

u can punish switches with it

[random wadi]

ok then thx for the help

[solemn zodiac]

thats tina-a btw

tina-o has 20 less spdef

[crude bloom]

Went to sleep sorry on the delay on my reply, what do yall think would be a good improvement on it? Is the core of Hatterene and Dragapult even good? What would be better for team synergy with hatterene?

[random wadi]

giri-o is used more as a defensive mon?

[solemn zodiac]

yes

altered is basically exclusive to stall since it does negative damage

[random wadi]

+1 252 SpA Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Giratina-Origin: 480-566 (95.4 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO, I mean definitely better chances but still I hate depending on luck

[random wadi]

also quick question is stall any good in natdex ubers?

[solemn zodiac]

it's fine on ladder?

i rarely see it in tours tho

[random wadi]

ye

[crimson obsidian]

What format is this for? UUbers?

[crude bloom]

i switched it to OU

wait no i see the issue i switched the format and forgot the channel change XD

[crimson obsidian]

Pult isn't legal in OU btw

[low ruin]

Ice nihilego or coverage ? You’re probably not really calm minding rocks overall are frail ; the diamond storm move still feels good but overall I believe you should try to realistically win flying ; theoretically landorus-t scarf would be like a chokept for a scarf nihi and even then no one’s using that on every comp.

The sample recommends arcanine-h so adversely manipulating tyranitar could work with like a special blast + ep to blow of archa / alarm …realistic sense ttar it’s not directly for anything long term and it’s also ok on paper vs psychic, ghost is not real, pokes lati. I suppose ? Either the mbeam or having ice feels really valuable

I guess the av ttar works but doing pelican damage to Archaludon and skarmory just feels like we aren’t achieving anything at all

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/f04d575c809ee816 feels like a mess

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/77ee5894a9c20b9d that zygarde set was an idea from a friend of mine, ES is really effective

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid oriole]

alright, showtime

first of all, zyg generally isnt the best user of espeed

it also really prefers lefties over chesto

id reccomend replacing espeed with glare, or maybe dtail. we'll come back to this

regardless, tera normal isn't a great tera type for zyg. its only real utility besides boosting espeed which again, you shouldnt be running, is to not get stolen by marsh, which you should be able to switch in and out against in most scenarios

recover isn't actually something ho-oh gets a ton of usage out of. it's usually better off switching out to get regen heal, and it gets a lot more out of another move, usually whirlwind for defensive ho-oh, which you're running

[random wadi]

recover comes in clutch when 1v1ing winnable outcomes

[pallid oriole]

however defensive ho-oh, while usable, is usually outclassed by offensive ho-oh on these teams. brave bird is a crazy button that ho-oh can spam a lot, and that hits basically everything in the meta

[random wadi]

ye I did notice that def ho-oh are a bit rare, but it's still decent, the amount of things it can ruin by burn or toxic is really high

[pallid oriole]

also stone edge is for the most part outclassed by rock tomb on marshadow, which thanks to technician is almost as powerful, still OHKOs ho-oh with LO, and is a lot harder to switch in on thanks to the speed drop. its also more accurate. generally its a better choice

actually another reason to drop espeed on zyg is that you already have ssneak. i do really like priority on teams when possible so i would usually get the urge to add espeed, but ssneak is usually more than enough

now, utility darceus is fairly uncommon outside of stall. cm is usually the better choice, and considering that your pdon doesn't have a lot of spdef, id say that this applies here too. foul play does do considerable damage to pogre, but cm taunt usually does better i think

[random wadi]

ye I had rock tomb in mind but my greedy self wanted more damage, with stone edge you're gurrnated to one-shot def ho-oh with rock tomb you still can but has a slight chance to not, I really hate rng but the damage is tempting

[random wadi]

also what do you think of the kyogre set?

[pallid oriole]

what does the defensive investment do?

[random wadi]

surivives +2 252 atk ES + life orb from arceus, +2 252 SPA moonblast/thunderbolt for xerneus, +1 252 adamant Ultra Necrozma Outrage or Photon Geyser

[pallid oriole]

im not an expert on working with defensive investemtns in pogre, but it really seems like there should be some adjustments. Yes, pogre hits hard without offensive investmetns, but going all in with origin pulse and thunder with this much defensive invesmtents seems silly. that much defensive investments in general also seems redundant.

side note, i think that this team would be a lot more structurally sound if zyg was tera fairy dragon tail

actually maybe not.

[crimson obsidian]

https://pokepast.es/2adac947253c995e this would be the 'standard' for the six you're looking at. Zyg can be tera fairy if needed

[pallid oriole]

dragon tail i think would be helpful a bit for ekiller if you lower the defensive investmetns on pogre, but i think you do well enough into dd zyg with pogre. that is, if you put whirlwind over recover.

i don't really know what pokemon ho-oh clicks recover on

maybe defensive pdon?

[crimson obsidian]

Most things it'd click it on will toxic it

[pallid oriole]

yeah also should have brought up that cb marsh is generally superior to lo. lo for sure has merit, but tera ghost cb marsh is just stupid. you click the ghost mvoe and everything dies

imo this is far from a thing you have to run, you for sure could keep lo, but id go cb

[random wadi]

I did have it in mind but feels inflexible

like locking on attacks that there are mons that straight wall them feels a bit limiting, ye the damage is good but still be easily countered with any normal/ghost

[pallid oriole]

anyways i dont think i finished my thought but id say you should probably go standard defensive pogre instead, or if you dont want that standard offensive pogre. unless you need it to do some specific things, defensive offensive pogre is generally the worst of both worlds

like, the pokemon that come to mind where you'd need it are lunala and yveltal, and it looks like your team does good enough into both.

the only physical threat youd need pogre to deal with that comes to mind is chien pao

which i guess your team is a bit weak to its ice stab, but tera water zyg can usually get you around that

i personally don't like using sd utility pdon, but as long as it checks zacian and your team does good enough into pogre (primal kyogre) it should be fine

[pallid oriole]

not to mention chein is somewhat uncommon and if you can keep rocks up it probably isnt coming out often enough to where the ice stab will be too big of a deal for darcues and no defensive investment pogre to deal with. technically chien might have tera ice, but i dont think anyone actually uses that

[crimson obsidian]

This team gets smoked by yveltal

[pallid oriole]

really? ok, but even then that really only justifies specially defensive inevstments to pogre, not physcially defensive ones.

[crimson obsidian]

Pogre doesn't need much investment for yveltal

If you have hooh arceus dark zygarde a good rule of thumb is that at most one should be defensive

And that is likely going to be zygarde

[pallid oriole]

oh right, the team had foul play darceus, which sucks ass into yvel

even then, cm darceus admitidly isnt the best into yveltal on webs

anyways, yeah i didnt want to just give you a team thats that team but more standard, but the team bumbo gave is a pretty good baseline. you could defenitely substitute cb marsh for lo marsh if you want to, but other than that i reccomend learning the ropes of that team before you make any big changes.

[random wadi]

Ok then, still at it core is the team good and just needed some tweaking?

[pallid oriole]

pretty much i think. it seems you generally have a good idea of what a team needs, it just wasn't as optimized as it could be and had a few blindspots

[random wadi]

ok, btw what are the mons that I should be worried about?

[pallid oriole]

in general or for that team?

[random wadi]

both

I'm still kinda new I started playing like 2 weeks ago so I'm not aware of everything

[pallid oriole]

in general, the mon that have the biggest impact on teambuilding are marshadow, zacian, and pogre. the latter two usually force you into putting pdon on your team, with pogre also usually making you want to have a pokemon capable of taking a hit from it in case it ever switches in on pdon and can therefor hit it with water moves until it switches out and comes back in. marshadow will basically wreck your team if you don't have a coil zygarde or alomomola + resistance to its stabs. a well built enough team may not need them to protect against marsh, but in general if you don't have either there's a high chance your team gets steamrolled by marsh

webs is also a pretty big concern, but unfortunately outside of a few pokemon, combating webs usually doesnt have as neat of a guide for what to do. pokemon like fezandipiti, scarf yveltal, and mdiancie help out a ton, but if you don't have one of them, you're going to have to keep in constant consideration on how to not let the pokemon on webs (namely yveltal and chi-yu) melt your team.

[crimson obsidian]

Defensive pogre helps as well fwiw

[pallid oriole]

generally using the ghaz core (pdon, ho-oh, cm darceus, and coil zyg) solves a lot of teambuilding issues off the bat save for webs, butif you're not using it you're going to have to build outside of a neat and tidy framework, though this also gives you more freedom

ultra necrozma used to be spouted as the worst thing to ever hit the teambuilder, but i havent heard anyone complain about it in a while, though that may partially be everyone just accepting doom and using ghaz 24/7. but i think that generally, if your team has a yveltal, darceus, marshadow, or tera steel giratina, you don't really have to worry about it

mbeam eternatus is actually a sleeper threat, and is harder to build against than you'd think at first. unless you have zacian its going to be scary for your team regarless, but in general you're going to want some sort of special tank, like cmceus, ho-oh, or pogre.

you probably want multiple tbh

[random wadi]

So I'm guessing from everything you said that HO is the most common archtype?

[pallid oriole]

ho-oh itself is usually not enough to deal with it for obvious meteor beam shaped reasons

[pallid oriole]

not really, but it is probably the one that devotes the most effort to dealing with. id say that the most common team style is balance and bulky offense, but ho slots in right after them and is generally a solid choice

actually on the ladder it probably is the most common archetype

but in tournaments you usually see bulky offense and balance with a fair amount of hyper offense mixed in. i dont have exact statistics, but it kinda feels like in tournaments hyper offense is once every three to five games. stall is somewhat rare in this tier, likely because there's basically a single stall team, and semistall is virtually nonexistant

some other threats you usually want to watch out for include dd zyg, chien pao, ekiller, double dance pdon, and dd arceus ground

[random wadi]

with power level here stall feels kinda helpless

[pallid oriole]

i refuse to play stall so i don't have firsthand experience, but id say probably. there are a lot of pokemon in the tier that stall really hates, so its realistic to come up against a team that has an almost oppressive matchup against it.

[random wadi]

that's ig why you said I need whirlwind instead of recover, a lot of powerhouses need setting up to get op

[pallid oriole]

generally stall is utility darceus, chansey, dondozo, regular giratina, defensive eternatus, and defensive ho-oh

sometimes someone tries to throw mttar into it, and i've heard theres apparently a clefable stall team going around, though i don't know what it looks like

[random wadi]

ok you mentioned all the general threats, what about the threats for my team specfically?

[pallid oriole]

before or after the changes?

[random wadi]

after

[pallid oriole]

so, im assuming your team is the one bumbo showed except lo marsh over cb?

[random wadi]

sure ig

[pallid oriole]

the team is very solid in general, there aren't a ton of huge issues. it does struggle a bit into webs, that's probably your most relevant weakness

lunala is tough, but that's basically like saying the sky is blue and you have probably among the best specs lunala matchups you can have

however

i think this team fears garganacl a fair amount.

tera fairy garg seems difficult, pogre should be able to handle it but only if you are in a position to not get your ass handed to you by salt cure

[random wadi]

I mean it needs to tera to get annoying which is not always available

[pallid oriole]

tera water i think you can use tera poison darceus to reliably handle

garganacl is a little bit of a tera hog, in my experience theres a fairly high chance they tera garganacl. garganacl is like one of the most annoying pokemon to deal with cause depending on your team you probably have like one or two pokemon that can handle it and no matter what salt cure is going to be very annoying.

i dont think the team does bad into it perse, but this is for certain one of the many teams that would hate seeing garganacl

other than that i think the team is pretty good

[random wadi]

okay then, thx for the help and sry if I asked a lot

[pallid oriole]

you're all good

[crimson obsidian]

re: unecro is still broken, but webs are more broken and makes unecro worse

[atomic salmon]

my bad for late response, holiday shit haha, but overall it looks fun, i think overall we can make it a lil better if utilizing a raging bolt varient. we need ways to break flying + steel more effectively while also utilizing the setup spam in m alt + bolt to our best capabilities
Goodra-Hisui @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature

• Heavy Slam
• Flamethrower
• Dragon Tail
• Protect
  I feel AV hoodra is a flop rn and overall gets worn down too quickly towards our liking when it has to deal with alot of special wallbreakers for the team, being able to now rack up passive recovery + scout via protect is most appreciated.

Lastly i would just take off latios for latias with defog + h wish compression. just synergizes well with cm bolt + dd m altaria other than that rest is fine.

steel mu seems annoying but i ladder with the team a bit and see wassup, can do kommo-o over bolt as well

[random wadi]

you're all good, thx for the help anyway

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/ff3520410b65d6ad toxic for life

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid oriole]

This I think is a lot better. it does however struggle a bit with DD zyg and double dance primal groudon.

[random wadi]

I mean half of the team can toxic them putting them on a timer

[pallid oriole]

that's debatably passable for double dance pdon, but toxic wont put it in range of shadow sneak for a few turns so it has time to tear through a bit of your team. dd zyg on the other hand can sub on mola for free.

also ho-oh cause it doesnt have the attack investmetns for sacred fire to break sub.

actually wait no

cause whirlwind.

technically yveltal is a pogre switch in, but only if it is at full health

something to keep in mind is that mola is usually run alongside gira-o, as unlike zyg, mola doesnt check dd pdon that much, but gira-o does. but i dont think this is an easy replace for ho-oh on the team, so some adjustmetns will have to be made

imo that when you have a choice between ho-oh and gira-o, you should almost always choose ho-oh, so a different solution is desirable

[pallid oriole]

to clarify what i mean, sometimes you don't really have a choice and are basiclaly locked into gira-o, but ho-oh is generally more useful so if you can slot in ho-oh over gira-o, you probably should

i think tera grass offensive waterceus might solve some issues in this team

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Grass
Timid Nature

• Calm Mind
• Judgment
• Grass Knot
• Recover

also i think scarftal is a good choice over defensive yveltal cause your webs matchup isnt the besst

yea honestly i think if you swap out defensvie yveltal for scarf yveltal and waterceus for groundceus the team is pretty solid

alternatively i think tera ground earth power defensive calm mind arceus water gives you a better matchup against eternatus

[crimson obsidian]

Will weigh in on this after work

[pallid oriole]

actually a lot of problems would be solved if you substituted mola for tera fairy coil zyg, though i think that gives you an unfortunate stall matchup

[random wadi]

sry took long to respond thx for the help anyway

[pallid oriole]

alr so like here are three variations of that team that i think would do better
https://pokepast.es/61b3760452eacca6
https://pokepast.es/7b1b277184cbf59b
https://pokepast.es/267547b7bb2df54d

[random wadi]

so the first ones are just different warceus sets and the last is just switching mola with zygrade?

[pallid oriole]

yea p much

here's another one

https://pokepast.es/89995e391cb69027

you could drop gira for ho-oh, but then your best pogre switch in if it comes in on pdon is mola

unless you tera your ho-oh in advance

oh also you can swap will-o-wisp on gira for toxic.

[random wadi]

can this giri tank a zacian attack?

[pallid oriole]

after tera it can

well, i should say after tera it takes play rough

+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 248 HP / 152 Def Giratina-Origin: 235-277 (46.7 - 55%) -- 68% chance to 2HKO

tera steel you can use if you're really worried about it, but pdon and scarftal should be enough

tera steel would also help with ultra necrozma if you want it. you can always revenge kill it with tera scarftal or usually marsh, but if you don't want to sac a mon you can do tera steel

[random wadi]

ok then thx for the help

[buoyant jolt]

https://pokepast.es/89137dc8012fcf1d

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[buoyant jolt]

idk why it posted twice

[river vault]

https://pokepast.es/2ac185d43c393c1c team isnt rly coming together how id like it to and im not sure why :'[

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[river vault]

i feel like the problem is with politoed or sm

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/d14d8a21de6a0900

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[runic sage]

always go jolly lopunny you dont want to be slower than koko, and go 252hp 252def blissey it does not need spdef investment in this format. Also triple axel > uturn on lopunny preferably

your blissey also needs rocks, so you're gonna have to drop toxic

[atomic salmon]

Sup what was u building around

[buoyant jolt]

stallbreaker mew

[atomic salmon]

Then you don’t really need hatterene on this comp, it’s really a flop rn and what your trying to accomplish in the long run. I think overall with mew on ur comp, you just want immediate breaking like tapu lele which just really synergizes well with the team. That way now you also are boosting a strong hitting zen headbutt on m gallade. Overall this looks annoying vs roaring moon dragon rn.

What does mew evs do

[buoyant jolt]

outspeeds mimikyu

[atomic salmon]

Which is a non existent Mon in the tier, and overall u can just negate it with just utilizing lele to stop shadow sneak sweeping. This now just can allow u to be more bulky overall. But that’s up to u. I would stress about a mon on one of the worse types in ndm. And even then it’s just supported by mega sableye to block progress.

[random wadi]

oh ok is there anything else?

[buoyant jolt]

there r other speed benchmarks but its for other more unimportant pokemon

Bisharp is sorta important tho for HO darks

[atomic salmon]

Yeah u can just make it outspeed bisharp and call it a day. If u wanna slot a z somewhere can put it on celebi on this comp

[buoyant jolt]

kinda need celebis defensive util here for stuff like ogerpon and mega swampert

also this team has no removal

why does Psychic have such booty removal 😭

this team gets worn down by spikes and dies tho boomp

[atomic salmon]

That is the nature of psychic and no one told u to remove defensive utility. I also said if u wanna slot a z move somewhere put it on celebi

Hazard chip on bi is whatever as u have self recovery and not really dropping to stop right away

[buoyant jolt]

i meant removing boots would mean celebis gna be at like 70% when its time to handle pon

[atomic salmon]

And that’s bad?

[buoyant jolt]

i mean

pon vs latiosless psychic is kinda.. :C

[atomic salmon]

But overall that’s my suggestions

Gl

[buoyant jolt]

tho i do have a boulder

but ill just accept it ig and maybe put boots on mew

[atomic salmon]

I mean tbh more bulky on mew + wisp just nullifies waterpon better and if it results to it u have mega horn boulder already

And at the end of the day ur building with passive ass mew rn

Other than that try it out now

Gllllll

[mighty wharf]

https://pokepast.es/f7e8ef2adcf2e63f

Nat dex doubles team.
Set up shell smash (clamperl) and tailwind (volbeat) turn 1
Trick deep sea tooth ( to clamperl) turn 2
Switch in pelliper and start spamming rain boosted surf

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[simple stag]

I think you are gonna struggle a lot with getting that off consistently

You dont really have ways to support clamperl because it can just be double attacked turn 1

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/72b185b5f35d270c feels bad for some reason

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid oriole]

imma be so real i know basically nothing about defensive ndm everyone doesnt stop talking about how its washed and it sucks now so i never tried to use it myself but i dont know if they mean its just not viable anymore or if its more niche.

either way though

+3 252 Atk Tera Fighting Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 417-492 (104.7 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+3 252 Atk Tera Fighting Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 104 HP / 8- Def Groudon-Primal: 399-471 (108.7 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

you still have scarftal so this isnt the biggest deal in the world

but at the very least you're going to have to accept that if zacian gets off a swords dance when it first comes in and your opponent is willing to tera, something is dying (not that the defensive pdon you switched in is going to live much longer after taking a +3 tera fighting cc)

i wouldnt neccesarily say this is bad, as a 20% health defensive pdon isnt much more useful than a dead one, but its something you will have to keep in mind

though the pdon does live a +3 cc if zac doesnt tera, so chances are if your pdon doesnt have much revealed you could probably trick them into not teraing as they think they would just die after anyways since most people use defensive

[random wadi]

I mean the team has stealth rock and spikes, if zacian is chipped to like 80% it's getting one-shoted by yvetal foul play after a sd
+3 252 Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Zacian-Crowned: 252-297 (77.5 - 91.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

[pallid oriole]

yeah no im not saying you have a bad matchup v zacian perse, just that the thing people usually like to happen where their pokemon survive the attack might not work. yveltal threatens to revenge kill and if it comes in later it loses the intrepid sword boost which should let ndm deal with it so either way zac shouldnt smoke your whole team

now, you don't have zyg or alomomola, but i think between scarftal and a defensive arceus form you have enough wiggle room where you can probably manage against marsh, even if the matchup isnt ideal. unfortunately you have failed to cat-proof your team. don't worry, this is a common occurance, but it doesnt change the fact that you're standing on needles when facing chien-pao. this isn't the worst thing in the world, as it isn't too common, but idealy you don't want to auto lose any matchup. that statement isn't entirely fair, as you do at least have speed control and resist both its stabs, but if it gets the predict right it is probably killing something on your team. if they are healthy enough you can switch into pdon or ho-oh and then switch to something else depending on what move it is now locked into, but this will only work once for pdon, and it only reliably works for ho-oh if you can keep its health above 75%, as thats how much tera dark crunch does. everything else on your team is weak to one of its stabs

don't worry, wrecking entire teams is a common thursday afternoon hobby of Chien-Pao

[random wadi]

😭 also is all the version of chein pao are a threat or just the cb one?

I did feel like the team was weirdly weak to ice but thought ndm would be enough, completely forget chien pao existed

[pallid oriole]

the only set listed on the dex is choice band, i don't know if any other sets are actually good.

[random wadi]

well rip ig

is there a way to at least salvage the problem?

[pallid oriole]

i think tera on ndm would certainly help you. its not listed on the dex, but i think you might want a dark resist tera like tera fairy. i think not having a different tera shouldnt be a problem as the dex says ndm doesnt tera that often anyways (defensive ndm, obviously the other ndm sets don't tera at all cause they carry z-crystals)

im not sure how much that would help you though.

worth noting chien-pao really hates rocky helmet chip if you can keep up rocks, so clever use of tera ndm could save you. the problem is figuring out when to tera, as you can't be sure you will be reliably able to tera before chien hits the field.

i think you're team is actually pretty solid outside of this- wait actually hold up.

mbeam etern with sludge bomb over recover is usally only used on hyper offense teams

[random wadi]

was more or less bc arceus fairy seemed annoying to me on a etern sweep

[pallid oriole]

obviously mbeam wants to blow shit up, but most balance and bulky offense teams want its defensive utility which becomes harder to make use of if you can't restore health.

+1 0 SpA Arceus-Fairy Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 184+ SpD Prism Armor Tera Poison Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 121-144 (30.4 - 36.1%) -- 50% chance to 3HKO
+1 0 SpA Tera Ground Arceus-Fairy Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 184+ SpD Prism Armor Tera Poison Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 181-216 (45.4 - 54.2%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO

wait why am i seeing how well ndm does against it?

you have a ho-oh

toxic the fairyceus and if they taunt or refresh it tells you they don't have wisp or ep so you can switch to ndm and obliterate them

[random wadi]

don't usually arceus form do run power gem often specifically for ho-oh?

[pallid oriole]

im not sure how often fairceus runs power gem, the analysis is pretty outdated i think.

arc fairy is certainly scary, but it becoems significantly less so onec you know its fourth move, so most of the difficulty comes from baiting the fourth move without it denting your entire team

however

+1 0 SpA Tera Ground Arceus-Fairy Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 56 SpD Ho-Oh: 268-316 (64.5 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[random wadi]

if it's taunt toxic it if it's refresh brute force it?

[pallid oriole]

you should have enough room to figure it out before it does too much

[pallid oriole]

if its either then it can't do shit to ndm. switch to it and hit it with sunsteel strike

thats assuming its calm mind. if its defensive then it might have will-o-wisp. id say once you switch into ndm instantly switch out to pdon to see if it goes for wisp

assuming of course you don't know which it is

[random wadi]

okay then, so other then all that is there any other weaknesses? even if subtle

[pallid oriole]

double dance pdon is a bit of a pain

if you switch in grounceus the second it comes in you have it under control

but if you don't know its double dance and it gets to +2 atk and speed before grounceus hits the field it has a 25% chance to kill with precipice blades, and if its running heat crash a 31.3% chance to kill.

[random wadi]

it does need to set up both dances to be able to out speed arceus and ko it
28 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 140 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 338-402 (89.8 - 106.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

or just taunt it

[pallid oriole]

yeah. its for sure not a huge problem, but it means if you dont switch in arc ground the second a mysterious pdon hits the field you run the risk of getting your team wiped

its probably going to be a very small chance

but it exists nonetheless.

oh

[random wadi]

what?

[pallid oriole]

i think this team struggles a bit with pogre

you do have a switch in, which is good, but the thing is once pdon comes back in, pogre can just switch out. usually this is enough because you get to rack up enough chip on pogre to put it down, but

your team... doesnt threaten pogre a ton

[random wadi]

I mean ye I can definitely see the water weakness but pgrouden can switch on it and shut it down

[pallid oriole]

ok maybe nevermind, tera dark foul play does a lot more than i thought it did

0- Atk 0 IVs Dark Aura Tera Dark Yveltal Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyogre-Primal: 228-270 (66.8 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

this move is actually busted holy shit

[random wadi]

isn't it worse on defensive kyogre?

[random wadi]

it is when half the tier has 120+ attack stats

[pallid oriole]

0- Atk 0 IVs Dark Aura Tera Dark Yveltal Foul Play vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Kyogre-Primal: 166-196 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

defensive is bulkier which is scary but at the very least it can't instantly kill everything like wallbreaker can. you do struggle to break it a lot though.

[random wadi]

damn, although it does kinda need tera for that which isn't always available

[pallid oriole]

0- Atk 0 IVs Dark Aura Tera Dark Yveltal Foul Play vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Kyogre-Primal: 166-196 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

why is this -attack?

0 Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Kyogre-Primal: 169-201 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

no fucking clue what happened

[random wadi]

it bases on the attack stat of the foe, no sane person is running more attack on kyogre

also that's timid nature or bold

[pallid oriole]

oh wait that was still the foul play calc

im blind

you definitely have options to break defensive pogre in the long term, but its probably not going to go down for a long time

your best bet when facing it is to take out its teamates so it can no longer run away

alternatively, if you keep tera dragon, meteor beam into two tera dragon dynamax cannons does just barely enough to always kills defensive pogre provided it doesnt already have a special defense boost before you start your onslaught, so clever positioning of it might let you take it out, though of course this comes with the caveat of requiring you to use your power herb

so uh... if you go for this, make sure it works, cause you're not getting another shot

[random wadi]

Okay then thx for the help, this is like super late but happy holidays 😭, ironically I feel like I'm better at teambuilding in natdex ubers then the actual ubers format

[real granite]

What are we thinking Silvally’s best memory and Tera type combo is?

[distant hearth]

Silvally isn't viable as a whole even in NDRU as the opportunity cost of an item slot, a practically useless ability beyond enabling other type variants to exist, and a surprisingly lacking movepool keep it outclassed at any role it could do, and Tera is banned in NDRU, NDUU and NDOU, so the Tera type would be irrelevant, and while it's legal in Ubers I don't have to explain that Arceus entirely outclasses Silvally. The only ND meta where it'd be viable is STABmons, but it's banned, so uh... yeah

[patent frigate]

https://pokepast.es/7988f5a2ee597559
NATDEX UU
web psyspam

[dry ridge]

Hey @patent frigate, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexuu. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[deep hemlock]

https://pokepast.es/925b853fa7fcf62b
NDRU

[dry ridge]

Hey @deep hemlock, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexru. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[distant hearth]

Just a note that Empoleon got stolen by NDUU today, so it's illegal in that team now

[deep hemlock]

Damn lol

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/11bb9188ae887253

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid oriole]

don't think ill be able to take this one. i just woke up and have work in 2 hours

[solemn zodiac]

this is just stall but theres a pdon no

[low juniper]

get the pdon outta here

[crimson obsidian]

Yeah, as mentioned, this is just a stall team with Primal Groudon over Eternatus and Blissey over Chansey. You'd be better off using a standard stall team

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/a93fee3083cee844 I feel I should swipe arceus fairy with water to salvage the ice weakness

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid oriole]

groudon over pdon is very much off book, i dont think any top players other than myself ever do that

[distant hearth]

The team is also way too physically bulky as if Koraidon was legal, more specifically regarding the Ho-Oh spread being quite passive for GHAZ

[pallid oriole]

even disregarding that pdon almost always offers more, you kinda need pdon unless you're using ferrothorn cause otherwise you fold to pogre

as for the ice weakness, while not ideal i think that getting by on just tera water zyg is somewhat common (would like a fact check on that bob)

[distant hearth]

Yeah, this is true, in fact with Ice-types barely affecting the metagame nowadays as they've been on a decline I wouldn't worry that much about them

[random wadi]

wait a second I didn't notice that 😭 it IS supposed to be defensive pdon

[pallid oriole]

just read the description for mystical fire on the dex, ngl this shit sucks im for sure applying to revamp it after scarftal

id say mystical fire if anything handles yveltal, this shit isnt doing shit to cmceus unless you also have like, toxic

"i have to conserve calm mind pp" said no one ever (ok, maybe vs stall i guess)

[random wadi]

so just something like flamethrower is better?

[pallid oriole]

i think so

[random wadi]

so offensive ho-oh?

[pallid oriole]

he was probably also talking about etern. im like the only one left who still believes in defensive etern

to be honest you don't need etern here, but you also don't need to drop it. imo defensive etern is a perfectly acceptable choice here, but bob probably disagrees

[distant hearth]

I did clarify about Ho-Oh here, Etern is fine

That said, I don't think the current set fits this team too well as it's Zacian-C bait, which isn't ideal as half of the team does little against it outside of revenge killing, I would recommend the wallbreaker set if anything

[pallid oriole]

Eternatus @ Power Herb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Fairy
Timid Nature

• Recover
• Meteor Beam
• Dynamax Cannon
• Fire Blast
  this is the wallbreaker set, for the record

though looking at how your teams are improving, theres a good chance you already knew that

[random wadi]

pretty much already familiar with most of them yes, also this set is literally the metoar beam set with recover instead of sludge bomb so ye

still is a wallbreaker is something really needed?

[pallid oriole]

your team is perfectly functional with defensive etern instead, but people tend to pick wallbreaker over it

you dont have to use wallbreaker, but i think you should at least try it out

[random wadi]

okay then, other then the obvious ice weakness is there any other holes here?

[pallid oriole]

i think ekiller a bit

[distant hearth]

Arceus-Fairy has been on a decline as in practice it doesn't check as much as one would think, you'd want to just use Arceus-Dark unless you have a more specific reason to use it

[random wadi]

is there other mon I could switch with? marshadow mu is still scaring me

[distant hearth]

Marsh is checked by Zygarde, that's not an issue here, Eternatus and Yveltal also annoy it, and so does PDon in a pinch

[random wadi]

ok anyways thx for the help guys sry for the long replay

[fleet spire]

https://pokepast.es/dcb18428f4d8f97d

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[simple stag]

I think you want a fake out mon over chien pao

Then you could go Quiver Dance volcarona and maybe follow me pon

[untold obsidian]

https://pokepast.es/e56db8208f77ecab I love this lil team I made but it can definitely be improved, I'd like to not have to switch mons out of the team if I don't need to but I understand if some of my picks aren't exactly top tier

[jagged violet]

https://pokepast.es/ac89c1e6ef9a26ad
is this a good weather team?

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[crimson obsidian]

Weather teams are not viable in NDUbers. Rain has picked up slightly in NDOU if you wanted to give it a go there

[pallid oriole]

to be more specific, pretty much every team runs primal groudon who invalidates rain teams basically just by switching in

[crimson obsidian]

Primal kyogre is also a rough matchup for rain teams as well since most mons you'd use don't deal with it well and it can always just remove the rain by switching in and out

[distant hearth]

The counterplay for the primals overlapping quite a lot with checks to weather teams also does no favors

[jagged violet]

Ah so even adding kyogre primal wouldn’t do me good? I only did an uber team to get walking wake in here but if a weather team would be more viable in ou I can probably just switch over to that forum

[distant hearth]

Dual weather is good in concept as then you can reset the turns left on a weather by setting another then switching back to your setter, thus retaining more momentum, but that still doesn't save it in this tier as the weather abusers are nowhere at the level of the metagame to begin with, so you'd be effectively limiting yourself while the opponent uses something more optimal, ultimately you'd want to go to another tier (such as NDOU) for this kind of stuff

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/d58938029ab9c57c

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[low ruin]

Hey hru

It seems like people have the sap sipper trend goodra-h trend going and you have no celes - thinking about sequences for leech celesteela is always nice

[random wadi]

oh hey I'm pretty good hru?, also wdym exactly?

[low ruin]

Sap sipper goodra-h for leech celesteela sequences is what I’ve seen other ndm raters would recommend

[random wadi]

oh okay then, I made goodra-h have gooey since I thought that a grass immunity won't be as useful for a steel team but ig it can be for leech seed shenanigans

[distant hearth]

Yeah, Sap Sipper eases the matchup against Ferrothorn, M-Venusaur, and Celesteela, which are common on their respective types. Blocking Strength Sap can also be of use with some prediction

[low ruin]

I felt the same way honestly but these sequences of celesteela really shows how much of a “chain” leech is really dictating or being like a chain on plays where it didn’t exist - maybe eventually you break the cycle but its impact is there so players have considered it an option!

[random wadi]

Okay then, other then that is there any other holes I'm not seeing in the team

[distant hearth]

There's quite a lack of hazard control, you may want to consider fitting Rapid Spin on Iron Treads, namely over Stone Edge, although if you do so you'd also want to swap Spikes on Skarmory with Stealth Rock as to better pressure foes like Volcarona, M-Charizard Y, H-Arcanine, and Zapdos

[random wadi]

oh yeahh I didn't notice that, btw can I change heatren to more specially tanky?

[distant hearth]

You can, yeah, in fact that's the standard set for Steel teams, as it makes a defensive core with Gholdengo + a Flying-type

[random wadi]

is it just the evs changes or I different moveset?
edit: Oh yeah sry I just noticed it on the smogon site, can I switch roar with toxic?

[distant hearth]

You can, yeah
In fact you can also do role compression with Stealth Rock on the last move slot, enabling you to keep Spikes on Skarm

[random wadi]

ye I already thought about it although I still wanna keep rapid spin on treads to not get wore down by hazards

do you think I can switch iron head with stone edge? steel coverage doesn't seem that important on a steel team

[distant hearth]

You can, yeah, Scizor already provides plenty to pressure Ice- and Fairy-types

[frigid mist]

ND UBERS https://pokepast.es/53a83ff2189b255f

Any improvements?

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant hearth]

Quagsire is out of place as this is clearly hyper offense, and in fact has no niche in the metagame as unlike in Gen 8, Zac-C can brute force past it with Tera Fighting Close Combat, Lunala's set is also way too passive for what this aims to do, Zacian-C should only run one of its STAB moves as to not be walled by Ho-Oh (aka, to fit a slot for Wild Charge), and Terapagos is only viable in Sticky Web structures to ease the matchup against other teams of this sort (namely by removing Sticky Web in front of Taunt users like Yveltal and Chi-Yu).

The changes to make to the team are too drastic for it to retain a proper identity without basically creating a whole other team, so I would recommend checking the sample teams so you may get more familiarized with the tier, in particular the Sticky Web sample (https://pokepast.es/de6efe8a692835b5) bears some resemblance to your premise, so that can be a good place to start.

[frigid mist]

tysm

[glass laurel]

H

[dry ridge]

Hey @glass laurel, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/3515e797c978de56

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid oriole]

on paper this team looks solid, however there's one problem. generally, you don't want scarf yveltal to be your only form of hazard removal, as being choice locked into defog leaves you prone to losing momentum. I'm not actually sure how detremental this is, as i've always taken the advice of everyone and never had scarftal as my only defogger, but you should be told that this is generally not recommended.

[random wadi]

I mean can I switch zygrd with defensive ho-oh to slove the problem?

[pallid oriole]

i think you need zygarde for dd (double dance) pdon and some other stuff, i think id replace kyogre but you could also probably replace marshadow or arceus fairy

[random wadi]

ig I'll go kyogre then, neither way is there any more problems with the team?

[pallid oriole]

i dont think so

[random wadi]

ok thx

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/7555f4a6d72c8f4d

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sturdy fox]

https://pokepast.es/9c214a42397707a3

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sturdy fox]

😛

[upbeat beacon]

Zeraora is fine as a support mon but the rest do not have the capabilities to face the top threats of the metagame.

[lusty lynx]

Hi guys I have a team I was hoping for someone to take a look at! Its a mono steel trickroom team intended for doubles. I'm trying to avoid megas and legends due to the weird format Im playing with friends. Any advice would be great, I need it as I'm not too good at team building lol.
If this is the wrong channel then just let me know a better place to ask, but any input is welcomed even if this isn't anyone's specialty! https://pokepast.es/d73d99e689d779ce

[distant hearth]

!nolegends

[dry ridge]

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: #1373406929317269624 message

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for formats hosted on the Smogon forums, such as VGC and OU.

[slender hollow]

https://pokepast.es/586bebf0651c1c08
Would y'all be willing to look over this electric type team I made for nat dex monotype, I wanted to include xurkitree as its probably my favorite electric type

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[low ruin]

This is missing tapu koko @slender hollow you usually never drop it if it exists and xurkitree is a meme pretty much in monotype ; in cg sm xurkitree wasn’t even needed for example and Alolan raichu zera koko are already pretty fast so the resource evaluation of simply gambling hypnosis which can miss but the +1 speeed isn’t really doing anything ; it wants to break poison but there is alolan raichu, z fly zeraora, hell in cg ss people randomly slapped on a dracozolt with sub but like xurkitree is just not needed and everything already probably hits harder as xurkitree just dies off and it wants a billion coverage in hp and psychic

At least it’s just not meta defining so I’d check out the viability rankings. Luckily hands can run a few sets here with Electric terrain giving hands a actual teammate in ndm to prompter quark (situationally) but it’s still nice ofc since that’s the only time ur gonna use it. I just fail to see what xurkitree is really doing? At least competitively as really securing certain matchups like Z kommo-o (no fairy type here) and also things like goodra-h on both dragon and steel; disrupting momentum or just dtail phazing complicates gameplay and I think galvantula also is a bit meme in this regard too ; galvantula+xurkitree definitely isn’t a long term core I’d say - the rotom-wash just defogs the webs in which every type practically has removal - at work you’re best bet it’s regieleki screens …I’d even use eelektross over this Mon tho ngl

Galvantula is considerably an aspect of hyper offensive compositions but when there is so much resource management in hazard control + the scales of power levels in zs, megas, and diffrentiating structures I think electric is just offensive naturally so much to a point where galvantula should be the scarce option maybe in non-ndm metagames …at worst I’d hp ice this (here is koko hp ice or just mons for ground/flyings matter) I’d read up on the vr as it’s straightfoward and I think you may be using some sample sets but if you aren’t Import/Export is a nice tool

It’s d on the vr here kinda signaling it’s on very niche compositions overall the concern is xurkitree kinda needs like direct support when other non exists that can still perform a substantial role or better with z’s also as a lot of mons theoretically can shift their viability/impact with z crystals

[dry ridge]

Hey @novel shard, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/a0e5327a78e1b915 I'm the only one who feel creativity is kinda on getting choked on this format?, like damn you seriously need a good amount of mandatory mons in a specific archetype, neither way is this good?

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant hearth]

That's because the tier has been stagnating lately, and the further centralization around certain aspects has made no favors

That said, you'd want offensive Ho-Oh as otherwise it'd be too passive here

[random wadi]

other then that is it good?

[distant hearth]

Arceus-Water is quite hard to justify in general, as it demands a ton of support and faces a lot of competition with Primal Kyogre and Alomomola, I could suggest replacing it with POgre given the set, unless it has a particular niche for the team that you have in mind

[crimson obsidian]

The team is probably fine with some changes. Hooh wants to be offensive. Ndm can probably be swapped with Zac c for opposing arceus formes. Arceus -w should be a lot faster

[pallid oriole]

how much faster, cause thats the only spread listed on the dex for defensive

i mean i can answer that question, usually i think you want your cmceus to outspeed yvel, but bumbo probably has a better answer

[crimson obsidian]

At least faster than chi yu, maybe max speed

That set will probably be removed

[pallid oriole]

i think i have objections to that, as i definitely see scenarios where you want a waterceus that physically defensive, but thats best left for another place

but yeah, defensive slow waterceus is not wanted here i think

[random wadi]

so Ig either offensive waterceus or just Pogre?

[crimson obsidian]

You would rather an arceus forme

[random wadi]

ground?

[crimson obsidian]

Water is fine if you make it faster

You have a zygarde you do not need a slow ass fully Phys Def arceus forme

[random wadi]

to outspeed chi yuu it needs 212 spe

[crimson obsidian]

Use timid

[random wadi]

with timid becomes 96

[crimson obsidian]

Go at least 136+ spe

[random wadi]

to outspeed what?

[crimson obsidian]

Max speed adamant 120s

[random wadi]

yveltal?

[crimson obsidian]

Ekiller, arceus ground, mega Mence

[random wadi]

wait is Mence mid? I haven't seen one literally for like 3 months

[crimson obsidian]

It is much better than some of mons / sets on this team

Doesn't mean it isn't worth considering

[random wadi]

never said it's horrible just asking IF it is since for my experience I barely seen it

[crimson obsidian]

It is mostly for the former two. It also helps with mence

[random wadi]

Ok then thx for the help

[rocky granite]

https://pokepast.es/ab552bd27a122946 How good is this ND Ubers team i got to 1571?

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid oriole]

we're pretty much in uncharted teritory with gliscor, and i think the protocol with mons not on the vr is to just go "unviable, ditch it" but gliscor is... weird. after the vr nomination, we've discussed gliscor in the discord, and the general consensus is that its... eh? it might have potential, but has a lot of problems, and there are some pokemon that can do some of what it can do and generally contribute more on average. the safe bet here would be to drop gliscor, but im not sure if thats neccesarily "the correct choice". im not sure how to proceed on this and am leaving it to my superiors.

[rocky granite]

Tbf it does 101% wall Zygarde Complete once toxic orb is active

still think Gliscor is overlooked in ND Ubers

[distant hearth]

TBH the core issue with Gliscor is that it struggles to do much back to Zygarde, especially as it needs Tera Fairy to not just lose to Dragon Tail, and at that point it's much safer to use Lando-T for stuff like that

[rocky granite]

you could use Taunt, incase you don't need Spikes

dats kinda how i use it to actually deal with Zygarde

[distant hearth]

At least I would recommend to use Tera Fairy on Gliscor to mitigate the matchup on Dragon Tail variants of Zygarde, Roost over Protect can also be ideal so that it can wall Ho-Oh better

[rocky granite]

ok

anyways whats the closest mon u think should be banned from ND Ubers?

[rocky granite]

mine would be Zacian-Crowned

[distant hearth]

General talk over the tier would go better in #comp-general

[jagged violet]

https://pokepast.es/53f46c4c544fd3a3
is this a good monotype fire team? I’m not sure if I should replace gouging fire with another Pokemon like volcarona or replace ninetales. But any thoughts would be nice

[solemn zodiac]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic salmon]

Gouging fire is banned , hearth flame is banned as well if this is for ndm

Normally the go to replacement for gouging fire is volcarona rn

Heatran wants to be spD to deal with flutter mane better for the team

And normally nine tales utilizes heat rock over choice scarf

[random wadi]

wait is feza actually usable?

[solemn zodiac]

checks yveltal checks arc

also kind of checks pogre if u give it utility umbrella i think

and active slowpivoting is nice when the tier has next to none

[jovial osprey]

Also checks etern and other dragon types

[solemn zodiac]

other dragon types being just etern

u kinda dont wanna switch into tina

u can either get trolled by polter or wisped

and any other phys dragon is obviously a no

[distant hearth]

It does also annoy Palkia-O, but that's far more niche

[low juniper]

not rlly
252+ SpA Lustrous Globe Palkia-Origin Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Fezandipiti: 166-196 (43.7 - 51.7%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
and it can just sub on it

[distant hearth]

Given that it needs Rocks for a roll it does work as a check, it may not be as sturdy as Blissey, but it can work as an answer

[jagged violet]

What about something like this? https://pokepast.es/b18a15faef481c7e

[atomic salmon]

oh if this is for natdex i would utilize like

[atomic salmon]

scarf blacephalon or moth or victini to have somethign vs z kommo-o

would run hp ice on heatran for ground mu

[jagged violet]

Replacing what?

[atomic salmon]

over taunt or flash cannon

[robust kestrel]

Im trying to make bulky offense altaria team. Im still confused which is better
Team 1:
https://pokepast.es/6c062c28d3c87d83

Team 2:
https://pokepast.es/fd3e7583ceedf80c
Im kinda enjoying team 1 but still losing. anything i can improve? need opinions

[verbal solar]

First time playing monotype. I decided to go with a steel team because I used to use a comp team with him a while back.. I know hes not that good anymore but im not sure really what to put in that 6th slot. Id love any recommendations for the team/movesets thank you! https://pokepast.es/a087a3d46855b974 @soft lion

i was thinking about maybe a skarmory placement over orthoworm,,, or even corvinight for the ground type weakness that seems to be the main problem but im not sure

[random wadi]

this a monotype team not natdex monotype, there is a channel specifically for monotype #1059658237097545758

[verbal solar]

Heres a revised one for natdex mono: https://pokepast.es/2cab3e3827eb881f

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[verbal solar]

I think i fixed many of the problems with my orginal set

[low juniper]

ye but mega lucario and genesect are banned

[verbal solar]

oh shit

do you think the skarmory is redundant

[robust kestrel]

anyone maybe?

[distant hearth]

Are these for NDOU? if so you'd have better luck asking in https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059714627384115290

[verbal solar]

genuine question- is empoleon viable for mono steel?

seems like such a shitty pokemon but the fire type weakness seems so scary with just hestran

[random wadi]

it's C tier in the viablity ranking so it should HAVE some use, although steel teams do have heatren (who's literally immune which is good enough) and two really good mons who are neutral to it soo

https://pokepast.es/be132e66115a60b6 solid?

[robust kestrel]

ohh... is the normal natdex considered natdex ou?

[distant hearth]

Yeah, NDOTs is another section for every other sort of ND format

[robust kestrel]

ohhh i see, i didnt see the ou written in the game so thats why i ask in NDOT. Thank you so much thoo

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/14a79052bf0599dd ditto for life

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[crimson obsidian]

probably make zyg tera fairy and ho-oh tera flying

you're going to have issues with taunt + cm arceus formes so you need a way to handle those

[random wadi]

how can I fix that?

[distant hearth]

The simplest way would be to swap Ditto with Fezandipiti, which'd also help with the Yveltal matchup and complement POgre at denting past stuff with Acid Spray

[crimson obsidian]

you can use zacian-c instead of ditto

https://pokepast.es/9122a91e878a5415 i.e. this with zacian-c over marshadow

[rocky granite]

https://pokepast.es/4e55d7457073bd3b Hows dis team that got me to top 500 ELO in Nat Dex Doubles

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[simple stag]

It looks good

I would go moonblast somewhere on flutter though

You could maybe go specs over sash too, the support for it is good

[grand spear]

Uncle Bolt is a crazy name

[craggy mortar]

hows my natdex doubles squad https://pokepast.es/227b02b01f4fd05a

[neat tiger]

someone 1v1? ndex uu

[quasi eagle]

i put my in-game squads from each region onto pksd

[grand spear]

none of these teams are remotely viable in NDUbers

if you want to better learn the tier, I suggest taking a look at the sample teams

[dry ridge]

National Dex Ubers (Gen 9)

• Sample Teams
• Teambuilding Compendium
• Speed Tiers
• Good Cores
• Viability Rankings
• C&C Forum
• Discord

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[distant hearth]

!rule2

[dry ridge]

See rule 2 of #1373406929317269624 message

[burnt radish]

https://pokepast.es/6a86898703784743 tips plss

[dry ridge]

Hey @burnt radish, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

[pallid gust]

https://pokepast.es/bc289eea399cc50a got me to 1234 elo, just wondering what i can change

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[crimson obsidian]

Hi, it'd be good to pick one archetype and build around that. At 1250 the teams you're going to be running into are not going to be representative of the metagame at all. It seems like you're interested in HO, so which style of HO would you like to use?

[pallid gust]

honestly @crimson obsidian didnt know there was different variants of HO

i just know arceus, yveltal, and kyogre are my mains

[crimson obsidian]

Well for starters, HO doesn't really run hazard removal outside of some dedicated leads that are also capable of doing that. The gameplan tends to be to prevent or punish their removal while exerting offensive immense offensive pressure and wrapping up games quickly

https://pokepast.es/7f2711005b926f3c for example this is one of the current Hstack samples

[pallid gust]

well honestly when i used to play i used this gimmivky team that worked really well on another account and got 1475 with https://pokepast.es/f186911d7bd42fdc

[solemn zodiac]

i dont think 1475 is very impressive

[pallid gust]

i think i was goin for like a BO? more a less with that first team, but its kinda old tbh with you

[pallid gust]

no its not but

at the time that was my highest in any ladder

now its 1805 in ubers

on a shared account

but thats aside the point

@crimson obsidian just looking at the first team.. what do u think would fit best for it

[crimson obsidian]

A lot would need to change so you need to pick an initial direction for your team

and rebuild it

[pallid gust]

i think hazard stack would work fine

so maybe deox-s, xac, groudon yveltal.. the other 2 not sure abt

[crimson obsidian]

usually that would go to an arceus forum + ultra necrozma

[pallid gust]

hm what type for arc

[crimson obsidian]

I'd recommend putting a Rocky Helmet on that sample team and giving it a go and seeing what you like about it and what you don't

[pallid gust]

sounds good

[crimson obsidian]

arceus on HO is almost always Ekiller or DD Arceus-Ground

[pallid gust]

hm ok

[crimson obsidian]

https://pokepast.es/c3fe1c08c5e0836a this is another one you could try

[pallid gust]

not sure how i feel abt sal but ill try it

[crimson obsidian]

fair enough. Both of those are fairly proven teams so right now it is best to give them a whirl and see what you like about them and what you don't

[pallid gust]

whats the first team do against marsh?

ik theres xacian but

i just couldnt get in a comfortable spot to get him out

[solemn zodiac]

pdon walls

*for a bit

[crimson obsidian]

generally with hoswitching isn't ideal so sacking is fine to let either primal groudon on zacian-c setup on it

or scare it out

[pallid gust]

mk

well second match went better

definetly like the second team more

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2522526533

[stiff knoll]

https://pokepast.es/94dc04fef9cad17c

[dry ridge]

Hey @stiff knoll, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9anythinggoes team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1208795569649356820 instead.

[calm sand]

is there any info on unfezant natdex mono normal?

[grand spear]

This isn't really the place to ask, but no. Unfortunately, there's no real reason to use it over Staraptor.

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/f5b13a68411861be is this good?

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[crimson obsidian]

You'd want to replace Marshadow with dragon dance arceus ground or ekiller, but other than that yeah

[random wadi]

wanted to try something diffferent so it doesn't look exactly like the sample

[random wadi]

oh ye btw can I switch yvel set with scarf?

[crimson obsidian]

I wouldn't, but tera fire + heat wave is pretty common on these structures for zacian-c

[random wadi]

what's the specfic set?

[crimson obsidian]

usually heat wave over sucker

everything else is the same

actually you can go timid w/o sucker

[random wadi]

idk, I kinda love the priority, it comes in a lot of clutches

[crimson obsidian]

try dragon dance arceus-ground over marshadow then

[random wadi]

oh on that I used sd normal arceus as replacement is it fine?

[crimson obsidian]

either should work yeah

[random wadi]

ok thx

[dry ridge]

Hey @ivory flicker, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

[rocky granite]

https://pokepast.es/9d1865357ed90588 How's this team that I got to 1530 elo?

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant hearth]

May I ask what's Aurorus's role in the team that isn't outclassed by a myriad of wallbreakers? It's too weak for the tier in general, the set is walled hard by Ho-Oh, and relying on weather for Blizzard accuracy isn't ideal out of the Primals either

[rocky granite]

Mostly cuz I wanted to use a random RU pokemon to probably do something

[distant hearth]

Just use Chien-Pao or even G-Darmanitan for an Ice-type breaker

BTW, you'd want offensive Ho-Oh here, defensive Ho-Oh is way too passive for this team

[rocky granite]

Ok

[distant hearth]

All of that said, if you go with either of these two you may want to swap Rayquaza with Choice Scarf Yveltal as to avoid the role overlap + easing the Webs matchup

[mint urchin]

https://pokepast.es/f0200cfa476e06a1
please can anyone rate it and give me sum advice thanks very much

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

National Dex Ubers (Gen 9)

• Sample Teams
• Teambuilding Compendium
• Speed Tiers
• Good Cores
• Viability Rankings
• C&C Forum
• Discord

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[crimson obsidian]

Id highly recommend taking a look at the VR. Screens are a viable strategy, but you've used so many unviable mons that this team cannot be properly rated

[mint urchin]

Ohhh I understand yhe I didn’t want to play full team of legends but maybe u could look and give sum changes to my team please

[crimson obsidian]

Thisis kind of the legendary tier so if you are trying to not use legends then this isn't the right tier for you

[mint urchin]

Alr I will try in diffrent tier

[mint urchin]

I made new deck with your comments check it out

https://pokepast.es/89383717500556e0

[mint urchin]

I was inspired by this

[distant hearth]

So many choiced Pokemon are out of place on Hyper Offense as they'll be momentum sinks the moment they're forced to switch (such as by being checked by a resist), in turn giving too much breath room on the opponent as to remove entry hazards, which isn't helped by Ferrothorn and Giratina-O also being out of place as they're walls, or in plain terms the team has quite poor synergy among its members, trying to be a weird blend of balance and offense, I would recommend to settle on one direction or another

[mint urchin]

Okey thanks very much I will send new team soon

[mint urchin]

Yo here is my team update I kept giratina for will o wisp and hex plus I didn’t really know what to switch for him could u please rate it and maybe what should I change thank you for help bro

https://pokepast.es/43c69d482cbfc4c4

[dry ridge]

Hey @random wadi, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexag. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[pallid gust]

https://pokepast.es/2520f5c904c71172 soo i made a stall team for NDU and i think i covered all bases

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid gust]

it does struggle against marsh but

[distant hearth]

As I've said earlier, Marshadow and Chien-Pao overlap in roles, but for Mola teams you'll often want Chien-Pao as it's better suited for the speed control and lower risk of dealing with entry hazards. That said, as Glimmora is exclusive an hyper offense lead, it's out of place, you'd want for that slot to be an Alomomola to ease the capability for Chien-Pao, Ditto, and M-Diancie to enter the field while also increasing Giratina-O's longevity to handle a myriad of physical breakers. The final team slot can then be one of Primal Groudon or Ferrothorn to cover the POgre matchup

[pallid oriole]

this team looks like it struggles into life orb yveltal a bit, but more importantly ultra necrozma kinda eats this team up

[pallid gust]

yeaa im not sure how to fix it tbh

ant poiinters?

[pallid oriole]

maybe tera dark dondozo? hold on let me check what it needs tera fairy for

[pallid gust]

yea all good

i also feel like dusk mane is up for changes, ive been switchin him out to see what feels best and havent found anything

[distant hearth]

Weak to Marsh? You have Ho-Oh, Eternatus, and Dondozo for setup variants, choice locked sets can also be PP stalled by Giratina and Chansey

[pallid gust]

reason for dusk mane is to take care of zacian tera fighting

[distant hearth]

If anything the elephant in the room is the NDM, it's quite out of place, do you have any particular roles in mind for it beyond being a setup sweeper?

[pallid gust]

dusk mane would be the set up sweeper but hes kinda slow and im not sure abt him

thats the main reason i sent the team in, to get the set up sweeper figured out

im comfortable with everyone else

so if u have any thoughts just lemme know

@crimson obsidian thoughts on like arc fairy or dark?

for setup sweeper

[crimson obsidian]

I mean you've taken standard stall and replaced Arceus-Dark with Necrozma-DM? There isn't really a ton to say. You'll probably have some success on ladder with it if you try it there, but I'm not really seeing a good reason to make that replacement

[pallid gust]

so you think dusk is fine?

[crimson obsidian]

I don't know if I'd say that, but if you're set on it go ahead ig. I don't see what this offers over standard stall

[random bluff]

Hello, i’ve recently taken an interest in competitive pokemon and have been wanting to start my pursuit of the hobby through the tier Natdex UU

I want to use a team based around Mega Absol. I get that the pokemon isn’t too great but they can still be decent if you use them skillfully. Because of this i would like to receive some feedback on the team i’ve got now, and how i should change it to compliment Absol better.

Please keep in mind that this is my first day on showdown in years.

https://pokepast.es/d95932df878e0f2b

[low juniper]

!pokepaste

[dry ridge]

This command has been removed. Please use !psteams or !shareteam.

[low juniper]

The microsecond i sent that

[random bluff]

sorry..

[distant hearth]

Hello, for starters, Terastallization is banned from NDUU, so the Tera types are useless, secondly, Arcanine is outclassed here by Victini (or Rotom-Wash if you merely want a bulky burn spreader, Fire isn't a good typing in the tier defensively to say the least), the Clefable set in general is suboptimal as it's passive, tries to set field effects that'd only shine in hyper offense while being outclassed at something like that either way, Mega Absol is unviable and outclassed by Lokix and Scizor, and there's little reason to use Alakazam over Mega Latias or Mega Gardevoir, Skarmory not running Roost isn't ideal, and the Keldeo set is rather passive as it'd want Choice Specs if not running setup. Overall the team has too many flaws to fix it without basically building a whole new team

[red orbit]

Hello Pokemon Trainers

I’ve recently made a team for NatDex Ubers,and after some wins and defeats I want to see if these anything I should be doing differently

https://pokepast.es/e5a2b7971fab7f84

[hazy remnant]

None of these pokemon are viable in the tier.

[distant hearth]

That's ND Monotype Ubers, not just regular ND Ubers, but indeed, this is just unviable (hardly any of the Pokemon here are meta, plus this just gets swept by a Primal Groudon or Arceus-Ground with minimal momentum)

[dry ridge]

Hey @random bluff, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

[random bluff]

Hi, good team?

[distant hearth]

As Chatot pointed out, this is not a tier that's rated here, please share this team in https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059714627384115290 for a proper rate

[random bluff]

I Sorry

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/1cc3945d90f51c6d been a long time since I posted here, was pretty much enjoying playing every once in a while get districted with life stuff, anyway is the team good? it's been a while since I builded a team in the format (quick fix since I forget to choose the moves of some mons)

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[low juniper]

Prob go tera poison fairceus

U need tspikes absorber

Go polter on marsh

Not tomb

Tomb only makes sense on lorb but for this team ur better off using band so dont use tomb

Use tera water zyg btw for ndm

[random wadi]

oh yeah some small tweaks needed, but overall is the team good?

[low juniper]

Yeah

I guess there's no speed control outside of marsh which can be a bit annoying but most MUs that would matter against (like deoA) u should be able to outplay

[crimson obsidian]

DD zyg is going to be annoying. Was going to comment on some stuff when it was posted, but currently busy with some other stuff

[random wadi]

should replacing marsh with something like scarf yveltal be good?

[crimson obsidian]

if you are going to replace marsh with anything you probably want to replace it with zac since taunt + cm arceus formes are otherwise very annoying

also primal groudon should be relaxed since you have overheat

scarf yveltal helps with webs over those two, but marsh / zac-c are both very good anti-offence and immediately powerful which this team is otherwise lacking

[random wadi]

actually you're right zac is naturely fast and can be really good for power, although I prefer priority or scarfers since they outsped the naturely fast mons

[random wadi]

sitll overall who's the best for the team?

[crimson obsidian]

marsh tends to be better on teams like this than za-c, but they both work. I'd probably change around the arceus-fairy evs to a more mixed spread or just go max speed max hp

you don't need much def with the rest of the team and some SpD helps it setup more easily

would also recommend tera poison

[random wadi]

by how much spd evs?

[crimson obsidian]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-national-dex-ubers-ev-compendium.3762292/

you can see what tickles your fancy there

the 248 hp / 4 def / 16 spa / 104 spd / 136+ spe spread that arceus-dark uses is fine, but I'd recommend at least hitting the yveltal benchmarks

[random wadi]

ok wow this format has a lot of good information spread right on, I've seen that good cores format which I do sometimes go to check in when I team build but never seen this

[crimson obsidian]

the role compendium is pretty outdated fwiw

when I have the 15-20 hours to update it I will since it is heavily curated

[random wadi]

you made that?

[crimson obsidian]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-teambuilding-compendium.3752305/ this is what I'm talking about as outdated

but yeah, I made both

[random wadi]

absolute goat

[crimson obsidian]

Thanks, the goal is to make it easy to pick up the tier and progress if someone is interested

[random wadi]

I guess I'll just stick with full hp/ max spe investment since I won't lie and say that I would know how to make specfic evs spread, thx btw

[crimson obsidian]

put 4 def / 4 spa if you go max max

[random wadi]

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Calm Mind
• Judgment
• Recover
• Power Gem
  this?

[crimson obsidian]

yeah

[random wadi]

btw with the changes is there any mon or archtype I should be concerned about?

[crimson obsidian]

cm arceus-dark is probably going to give you more issues than you'd think

[random wadi]

feel like I would need a mon with at least taunt so I have some ground against set up mons

whirlwind isn't bad but not completely effective

[crimson obsidian]

yeah, normally that would be arceus-fairy

generally I think thunder wave on ho-oh and d tail on zyg is better, but maybe not with arceus-fairy

one of the benefits of zac-c over marsh is the arceus-dark matchup since that slightly punishes marsh for teraing

[random wadi]

wait but shouldn't low kick one shot? 252 Atk Choice Band Marshadow Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Dark: 488-576 (110.1 - 130%) -- guaranteed OHKO unless it teras

[crimson obsidian]

its more about endgames where you've tera'd marsh and judgment ohkoes + w glare on zygarde it can setup and dancing around it is awkard since punishing tera poison is hardish

[solemn zodiac]

well you cant exactly switch into a judgment

[crimson obsidian]

chances are you'll need pdon for something else

also we have started a tutoring program you might be interested in

[random wadi]

I mean unless it has spa evs marsh can switch in and don't get one-shotted 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marshadow: 165-195 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[solemn zodiac]

well considering marshadow doesnt have recovery and potentially doesnt even resist rocks after tera its not exactly stellar either

[random wadi]

yeah obviously but it's not an impossible matchup with good playing

[random wadi]

wait with that combination what arc fairy can be replaced with

[crimson obsidian]

I kind of assumed the point was to use arceus-fairy

[random wadi]

I can make another version of the team with the replacement of arc fairy to test it (aka just pasting not hard)

[crimson obsidian]

https://pokepast.es/ecb2129d71975300 made this ages ago and it is called bog standard balance for a reason

zyg can be either tera fairy or water

[low juniper]

no he needs an unecro check still

its either marsh or scarf yvel

i wouldnt do zacc

[crimson obsidian]

you can do tera dark arceus-fairy ig but ye

[random wadi]

so instead of arc fairy arc dark?

[crimson obsidian]

It is up to you

[random wadi]

ok thx for the help

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/45345a9f0900e252 HO screens

[random wadi]

@low juniper wdyt

[rocky granite]

https://pokepast.es/219878ffa4a28dcd So I decided to give Kyurem-White a chance and got to 1535 elo with an Alt

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant hearth]

May I ask what the Kyu-W spread does? NDM also seems out of place as this isn't a TR team and it's bad over there regardless

[rocky granite]

120 hp and 112 spdef EV with Assault Vest means wallbreaker primal kyogre origin pulse can only 4 hit ko without stealth rocks

Specially offensive yveltal only has a 5.9% chance to 2 hit ko if it has life orb and tera dark

And 120 hp means it survives Adamant primal groudon stone edge

Otherwise it's just a set I just made to see how good it could be

And ice stab morally threatens zygarde complete which is quite a good thing

Still, mostly just a mon I wanted to try out since it still a D tier mon

[solemn zodiac]

i dont think any primal groudon is clicking stone edge on you

[low juniper]

?

[soft forge]

https://pokepast.es/1c2c79a3afa6745d
hey guys so im like kinda new to this stuff, and I just wanted to know if this team was good or not

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rocky granite]

theres no storm in this team 🙁

[upbeat beacon]

Unfortunately, your team is not good enough for the metagame. Gholdengo is alright. Volcarona is alright as well, but it will requires better support unless it decides to take on the role of a support instead. Regardless, both mons will need better sets and those sets are provided in the Strategy Dex. If the sets are not provided in "National Dex Doubles," then you can use "Doubles" instead. If you want to use community-made resources, they're all provided under "Teambuilding resources for this tier:" after you click on one of your teams for National Dex Doubles on Pokemon Showdown. Samples Teams and Viability Rankings is particularly resourceful for understanding the metagame. If you got any other questions, feel free to ping me. I'll try to answer the best I can.

[soft forge]

Ah alright, thank you

[umbral yew]

Hello, I hope everyone is having a good day. I'm presenting a Rock-type monotype team for a server I run with friends, similar to a Pokémon Gym. I'd appreciate any recommendations or opinions on how I can improve it, as my friends can run two direct counters. Thank you for your attention.

https://pokepast.es/7fbf63b9e4e54df2

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[low juniper]

u need hisuian arcanine

im not pro ndmono but surely rocks + mega scizor just 6-0s this

[umbral yew]

That's what Aerodactyl is exclusively for, because of the Fire Fang move and the Focus Sash.

I'll OHKO him

[distant hearth]

Stealth Rock will break the Focus Sash, and additionally Cradily is out of place as it's way too passive, granting a wide opportunity to remove your entry hazards and render your team much easier to handle
The lack of speed control also means that stuff like Choice Scarf Meowscarada or Roaring Moon eat this team alive, you'd really want another item on Iron Boulder, Ogerpon-C over Cradily, and H-Arc over Aero, with H-Arc in particular compressing as a breaker, a check to Steel-types, and speed control with priority
Here's a sample team with the above sort of structure so you have some baseline to use: https://pokepast.es/a9ddf0e344bb9daf

[umbral yew]

Thank you for the recommendations, I will take them into consideration.

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/0cfdc30ebb6776b4
https://pokepast.es/13a142db7215be28
same team but with one different mon, which one is better?

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant hearth]

I'd lean on the Yveltal one as the team seems rather weak to UNecro otherwise

[random wadi]

yeah thought the same, before it had darkcues but I switched with fez, so Ig I'm keeping yve, btw how is the team overall?

[distant hearth]

8 Speed EVs seem useless on Ho-Oh outside of creeping uninvested variants of base 90s as it's not running Thunder Wave (they can instead go into Defense to ensure avoiding an OHKO from CB Tera Dark Crunch from Chien-Pao), Defog over Toxic on Yveltal would further ensure the sticky Web matchup as then there wouldn't be as much strain on Ho-Oh and Fez, and beyond that you'd want Tera Fairy on Zygarde to answer Dragon Tail variants of itself

[random wadi]

k thx

[rocky granite]

At long last, a real ND Ubers team

[random wadi]

😭 thx

[muted steppe]

natdex doubles: https://pokepast.es/3e67c07dd659aa0d

[muted steppe]

so basicly kommo-o + support latios (max speed kommo o with tailwind outspeeds trickroom btw)

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/e1b36bb9cb62009c

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic salmon]

looks fun, team pretty ground weak tho i would utilize triple axel over sneak on m gallade and like a slowbro over hatterene. i think hatterene is a flop in this metagame, especially since lele just is overall the better psychic fairy

[random wadi]

ye kinda thought so, but I prefered hatt for something against hazards

btw weird question is there a sd agility set for m gall? and is it good?

[atomic salmon]

tbh its not really necessary as in this metagame, hatterene is getting bullied out by most hazard setters anyway. compare to regular mono where your just kinda force to run it. if ur afraid of like hazards then u can do like any of the lati with defog or just accept overall you will have to play the game at a faster pace vs shiity mus featuring hazard stack comps, normally u just out offense and trade hazards with one another (which is why uou have deo speed with dual hazard setting).

[atomic salmon]

yeah u can run it but it feels bad as you really need the additional coverage option

if u wanna do it i would do like

cc + axel as my attacks and see how that goes

[random wadi]

did had an idea for that, I'll test it, although it would be more better on a screens team

[atomic salmon]

can do screens or dual hazards, doesnt really make too much of a difference

but yeah try out 2 different variants

[random wadi]

oh yeah btw my pc got a problem so I had to install a whole new system, I lost my unsaved teams so I'll be kinda posting often to recover them but more reworked

https://pokepast.es/4f2cd3d454625101 feel like this gets absolutely destroyed to any fairy team

[atomic salmon]

its dark so common weakness type shit, and you have no alolan muk to combat vs it or no t spikes meowscarada to help force progress / worn down the mu

[jagged violet]

https://pokepast.es/ddb30f51807c0df8
thoughts? advice?

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[upbeat beacon]

It seems that you got the basics of a standard Sun team down. Some players prefers more bulk on Flutter Mane and a more offensive set on Raging Bolt, but the choice is entirely up to. First of all, I highly recommend replacing Amoonguss with Jirachi as the team's redirector. This is because your team have a notable weakness to Ice and Rock type moves. Note that Jirachi also provides you with another means for speed control. Next, I would replace Incineroar with Rillaboom. This will help balance the weakness that your team now have against Water and Ground type moves. In concerns to Landorus-T, you don't really need to change it. I just wanted to let you know that you could use its Utility set to Defog. Other Ground-types such as Landorus-I, both Ursaluna's, and even Great Tusk has been used to some success in tournaments. The option is out there for you to use.

I'm stealing a team from another player, but its from our bazaar so it should be fine. The link I provided basically showcases what I recommended for you. Kunal is a well-respected and established player, so I trust his sources. https://pokepast.es/a496b1058777f528

[pallid gust]

https://pokepast.es/878102e819c2070c team got me to 1370 but i wanna know what i can do to change it for higher ladder

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid oriole]

running both nuzzle and spore is pretty greedy, you usually want to replace one of them with perish song so your team doesnt get 6-0d by dd zygarde. i suggest replacing spore with perish song.

[pallid gust]

yea i thought of runnin perish

just didnt know what to replace

[pallid oriole]

also lunala on webs is generally meteor beam, i dont think ive ever heard someone use specs on webs. im sure theres probably someone whos used it at some point, but meteor beam lunala is generally very good on webs, so i think you should go with that set.

[pallid gust]

uh do u have the set for it? or can i just look on compendium?

[pallid oriole]

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/lunala/national-dex-ubers/

second one down

[pallid gust]

cool thanks

anything else?

[pallid oriole]

one last issue is that you are running both behemoth blade and play rough. i assume that is a mistake since you are also running close combat, but generally zacian wants sd / one of its STABs / close combat or tera blast ground / wild charge

other than that i think the team looks pretty good

[pallid gust]

ah... yea no not a mistake just what ive always ran tbh

which stab move is more viable?

[pallid oriole]

behemoth blade generally

[pallid gust]

alr

https://pokepast.es/b2242e4332b07bc7 hows it look?

[pallid gust]

oh alr

thanks man

[pallid oriole]

no problem

[pallid gust]

first time my team hasnt been absolutely ridiculed

[pallid gust]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2536446520-pnd4xhddnlxcdod760i6oe6wxrl9a58pw team works alot better

[rocky granite]

https://pokepast.es/431dc16a2bf61f2e How is this team?

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[crimson obsidian]

Don't really love the lack of an arceus forme. Yveltal wants sucker or this has huge issues w Ultra Necrozma. Ferrothorn really wants power whip over gyro ball. Don't like defensive ho-oh much in general

[pallid oriole]

what in particular is affected by no arc form, if i may ask?

[crimson obsidian]

gives a pivot that isn't ho-oh

wincon if it is cm

general mixed wall

[split rose]

i made this natdex doubles team to familiarize myself with it for the first time, just wanted to use pokemon i liked with sets that made sense. i dont think i have enough pivots here though, can anyone help me out to add more or replace redundant moves?

https://pokepast.es/73115d863d17b48d

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[upbeat beacon]

If you just want to use Pokemon that you like, then there isn't much that we can help you with. Raters here will always give you advice on how to improve your team / strategy based on the current metagame, and that's pretty much how it is in any competitive games, not just Pokemon.

Unfortunately, half your team is unviable for this format; there are simply better Pokemon that you can be using instead. I would replace Togekiss for Jirachi because the latter simply has better defensive properties. Common threats such as Chien-Pao and Kyurem-B also outclass Lapras as offensive Ice types. If you want to use better Ghost types, Flutter Mane, Marshadow and Gholdengo exist as well. The rest of the team is fine, but you could use better sets. There is no reason for Rillaboom to max out its speed. Fake Out and Grassy Glide (under Grassy Terrain) are priority moves and will ignore the speed of naturally faster Pokemon as long as they themselves don’t use priority moves as well. Kangaskhan also don’t usually use both Double Edge and Seismic Toss; those moves are used in separate sets. If you want to use Double Edge, then you should use Power-Up Punch as well. (I personally would use Frustration over Double Edge to not lose HP.) A set with Seismic Toss tends to invest mostly in bulk because Seismic Toss doesn’t require Atk investment. As long as you keep Kangaskhan at Level 100, you should be able to 2HKO most mons in the format. Both sets should have Sucker Punch.

Anyways, I highly recommend that you look at our strategy dex (national dex doubles section) and our other resources. If you have other questions, feel free to ping me, and I’ll answer the best I can.

[split rose]

thanks for the feedback! i do agree with most of these changes but i do believe Togekiss is better over Jirachi in its current state because most of my pokemon have glaring fighting and ground weaknesses so I figured Togekiss’ typing protects them from those moves

as for the rest, I’ll probably go full Double-Edge on Kangaskhan since i have many ways to heal off recoil such as grassy terrain so I’ll drop Seismic Toss for Sucker Punch or Power-Up Punch (whichever you believe is better for the set) because Kang is threatening when it can keep itself healthy with Drain Punch

I’ll replace Lapras for Chien-Pao, probably a Stellar Band set and Hisuian Zoroark will be replaced by Marshadow to gain some STAB fighting attack potential

I’ll update the team and post it back later on

[distant hearth]

First of all

!shareteam

[dry ridge]

Pokémon Showdown's team database is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply save your team to Showdown's database and you can share your team offsite by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team, scroll to the bottom of the team, untick the checkbox to make your team public, and press the button that says Upload to Showdown database.

You can then take the link to your team and share that link to share the team with other people.

[distant hearth]

Anyways, you'll want to pick up a format first, there's a wide variety of limitations and different semantics and rule sets at play for each, so any feedback is defined by this sort of details first (see https://www.smogon.com/sm/articles/sm_tiers for more details). Beyond that, please note that rating for upcoming Champions stuff isn't supported at present, see here (#1059704283072831499 message) for more details as to why, sorry for the inconvenience

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/06718b87a2a3966b

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid gust]

https://pokepast.es/a7af392c89ccd6e8 so i wanted to have some fun and asked a friend to give me a pokemon to base a NDU team off of and gave hawlucha, i was orginally gonna run HO just cause of haw's stats and everything but i work better with BO teams, the tera with hawlucha i wasnt sure on because of zac-tera ground

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[random wadi]

this is.....creative? although I HEAVILY doubt haw's powerlevel in this format

also bulk up is insane on something this frail

[pallid oriole]

iirc the policy on shitmons is for us to say "x mon is unviable, use something else". if you want to use hawlucha in this tier, thats fine but i dont think we can help. I will say that if you want to use a shitmon, you usually can to some extent, but you first need to learn the tier you want to use it in inside and out so you know why the mon sucks, how to compensate and cover for it, and what it can actually do

[random wadi]

also HEYY hru?

[pallid gust]

well ik the meta and shit, and honestly just trying to have fun with the builds im making,

[pallid oriole]

im doing fine, thanks

[pallid gust]

ik hawlucha prob gets screwed in the meta but it was fun to build around

[random wadi]

great, np

[crimson obsidian]

It is more you're asking people to put time and effort into making a competitive team with hawlucha and the advice is always going to be replace hawlucha with some other mon

[pallid gust]

i mean yea id like comments on what abt the team can change even it means changing hawlucha @crimson obsidian

[pallid gust]

https://pokepast.es/2da25ac72fbf890e

[low juniper]

errr idk what tera grass darkceus is

btw this has 0 speed control if u see a deoA its prob over

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/4fcffa8485b873f7 is this good?

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid oriole]

generally you dont want scarftal to be your only form of hazard removal because being locked into a move that literally everything can take advantage of isnt great and also yveltal is weak to rocks so it can't remove hazards often

also, owing isn't really yveltals best option for a fourth move. it doesnt really matter that much since you're not clicking the fourth move often anyways, but the updated analysis im working on rn has toxic and knock off as the other two options

id say sub out pogre for ho-oh

[random wadi]

I had a thought of switching yvetal wit hooh but I thought it would make the team too slow

[random wadi]

also btw is the HO match up good?

[pallid oriole]

i think so, scarftal goes a long way. its a little weak to unec but by no means bad and totally acceptable for me

[random wadi]

ok thx for the help

[pallid oriole]

the issue is basically everything else. scarftal is great for removing hazards once but it sucks ass at doing it a second or third time.

ok, basically everything else isnt true

if a team just has pdon with rocks you're fine.

but if they have like, an etern with tspikes, or are stacking spikes with anything that isnt a suicide lead, thats an issue

[random wadi]

also dumb question what is unec?

[pallid oriole]

ultra necrozma

sry bout that

[random wadi]

it's fine I'm used to NDM😭

[idle swift]

https://pokepast.es/ first time actually trying to make a pokemon team for natdex uber (started like 2-3 days ago)

was wondering what last mon i could use on this trick room team and if the builds for my other mons are even any good

[distant hearth]

Hello, I'm afraid that this is merely a link to the Pokepaste website, you may have removed the sublink that'd lead to your team in particular

!shareteam

[dry ridge]

Pokémon Showdown's team database is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply save your team to Showdown's database and you can share your team offsite by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team, scroll to the bottom of the team, untick the checkbox to make your team public, and press the button that says Upload to Showdown database.

You can then take the link to your team and share that link to share the team with other people.

[idle swift]

oh whoops lol

https://pokepast.es/3c8ab29baea74bd2 does this work?

[distant hearth]

That does work, yes
In any case, besides this being more so a place to rate completed teams (if still with notable flaws in some cases), barely any of the Pokemon featured here are viable at this power level, this almost could pass as a NDOU team

[idle swift]

oh ok. uber is higher than ou, right?

[distant hearth]

Indeed

[idle swift]

sorry for the (probably) dumb questions, but where on pokemon showdown can i find nat dex ou? im looking under the other tiers and cant find i, is it just called nat dex?

[dry ridge]

National Dex (Gen 9)

• Sample teams
• Viability rankings
• Tournament schedule
• C&C reservation index
• Role compendium
• Speed tiers
• Metagame discussion thread
• Discord
• Pokemon Showdown! room

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[distant hearth]

Yeah, NDOU is just called ND, I know it's confusing, but that's the way it is

[idle swift]

ahh thanks!

[pallid gust]

hey so i was looking on smogon and saw this set

Toedscruel @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mycelium Might
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature

• Spikes
• Earth Power
• Spore
• Rapid Spin

and was wondering if it could work on my current team https://pokepast.es/9bf70b89d330cee1 as an anti-lead

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid gust]

only reason im considering this is becuase its immune to spore and nuzzle, two moves smeargle loves running

and ep dals with glimma, diance-mega, shuckle and ribombee for the most part

deals

with it

[random wadi]

to be honest idk what's the use of toed on an HO team, like I don't think you can't replace anything with it, while ye it's immune to para and spore you're still are going last no matter your speed if you use spore, which make the person set hazard on you anyways

the typing is atrocious and the stats are not helping so I doubt that it will generally survive anything

[pallid gust]

eh just a thought i had, but thanks @random wadi for the insight

[pallid gust]

actually looking at what the person in the forums said it can actually do pretty well with primal-groudon, dd sub zygarde if it rapid spins in into ep, which accoring to them is enough to break the sub and zacian with spike and using tera ground.

[pallid oriole]

i dont use HO a lot, but ive never seen a team with two different leads. if you want an anti webs lead, ribombee is usually the pick.

wait, i might be stupid

for some reason thought you were going to run this alongside smeargle

[pallid gust]

oh yea no

lol, all good thou

[pallid oriole]

anyways toedscruel is hstack not webs, im not sure exactly how much is different between the two styles, but for starters i think mbeam lunala is significantly worse outside of webs. don't quote me on that though

toedscruel was only recently nommed so i dont know a lot about it in general, hold on let me ping the toedscruel guy

[pallid gust]

from playing around with the team a bunch i can infact say its notably worse without webs

talkin abt lun

[pallid oriole]

oh wait he isnt in this server

huh

anyways unfuuny has been cooking up this for a while actually but until he nommed it i was under the impression it was just funny impracticle anti-smeargle tech like double kick scarf calyrex-ice

[pallid gust]

so.. do u think its best if i just kinda wait until we know more abt what the shroom can do in the meta before i put it in the team?

or really any team

[pallid oriole]

you could, but there are a few other options.

for starters there are other team raters for this tier that should know what toedscrule does, as at least one but i believe most or all of them are on the council, and i doubt theyd aprove it for the vr while knowing jack shit about it

alternatively i could just ask unfuuny directly

[pallid gust]

ye

[pallid oriole]

so you want me to ask unfuuny?

[pallid gust]

sure!

if u dm

[pallid oriole]

aight.

[pallid oriole]

https://pokepast.es/0417112bfbce5dd6

[pallid gust]

Oh thanks!

[pallid gust]

From the looks of etern plays the same role as lun?

[pallid oriole]

theres a bit of overlap, but its speed stat is better which helps it especially off webs

theres also some other nice things about etern. it doesnt instadie to sneak, it can remove tspikes for a teammate if they need it, something nice for arceus here especially when its using life orb.

[pallid gust]

Ahh okay

[pallid gust]

Ay @pallid oriole Appreciate yah

[pallid oriole]

no problem

[umbral yew]

Could someone recommend a mono-type Rock team that's based on a Tyranitar with Sand Stream, please?

[distant hearth]

For ND Monotype, you mean? If so you'd have better luck with Mono Dark, while the SpD buff for Rock-types is nice on Rock teams, their structures are more limited as to build around it as it doesn't properly take advantage of entry hazards typically found on Rock teams like Sticky Web, thus limiting itself to bulkier structures that can struggle a bit as Rock isn't an excellent defensive typing per-say, meanwhile Mono Dark has more variety to benefit from its traits and more easily fit it
Here's a sample team you can use to test it out (https://pokepast.es/213b76d92e714c9e), and also note that this isn't the place to ask for teams, you'd want to go to #comp-general or the NDM server for those

[pallid gust]

thanks to cancel cult i got to 1420 with the new version of my team

[slender hollow]

For someone who plays showdown more casually should I use electric or steel type for natdex monotype?

[distant hearth]

This is more of a #comp-general topic, but Steel is more viable IMO, as its defensive core is quite strong and has decent flexibility for most matchups

[slender hollow]

Ah thanks for your input, I'll head over there and ask them as well

[late cliff]

https://pokepast.es/9bb8df67927dc4a8 Yo can i get advice for my team for ubers not sure how good it is

[solemn zodiac]

there is a total of 1 (one) ubers mon on this team

you can totally just replace it and go to NDOU instead

[late cliff]

is it dragapult? if so what should i replace it with?

mb

[solemn zodiac]

what do you want to accomplish with dragapult on this team

then you can choose another mon that can accomplish the same thing but legal in ndou

[late cliff]

Im not sure to be honest i thought dragapult was one of the best dragon types and i need a dragon type so i just decided to go with him since it fits my team type resistance.

[idle swift]

https://pokepast.es/2a6931576cd3676e id like to replace some of the pokemon in my team, mainly magearna and possibly landorus-t, and was wondering what mons could do the same thing but is legal in ou (ik landorus is legal but i dont know if i want to keep him). could i get some advice on what would be a good fit for my team?

[late cliff]

do you think I should replace dragapult with garchomp or dragonite for ou?

[distant hearth]

You'd have better luck asking in https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059714627384115290, as this thread is for every other ND meta but that one

[pallid gust]

played a couple matches with the new team and its been 6-0'ing almost every team so huge thanks to you my guy

[sinful jolt]

Rate my natdex ubers team
https://pokepast.es/b6f86dd4c07a14bf

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

National Dex Ubers (Gen 9)

• Sample Teams
• Teambuilding Compendium
• Speed Tiers
• Good Cores
• Viability Rankings
• C&C Forum
• Discord

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[crimson obsidian]

I'd recommend using viable mons

[sinful jolt]

Whats wrong with it?

[crimson obsidian]

ace, pult, and sneasler are unviable, etern wants tera dragon, zacian wants tera fighting. no hazards or removal

[pallid gust]

Whats the reason behind etern wanting tera dragon?

[rocky granite]

It's to boost it's Dynamax cannon to resist crushing level

and since fairy types are obliterated by sludge bomb

[pallid gust]

Ah alr

[pallid gust]

well sludge bomb is poison...

[rocky granite]

ofc

[pallid gust]

I dont see how it correlates to etern goin into tera dragon

[rocky granite]

It still has STAB poison even if it tera into mono dragoc

[distant hearth]

252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 248 HP / 160 SpD Arceus-Dark: 173-204 (39 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 248 HP / 160 SpD Arceus-Dark: 231-273 (52.1 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 248 HP / 56 SpD Ho-Oh: 153-181 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 248 HP / 56 SpD Ho-Oh: 205-242 (49.3 - 58.3%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO

The difference is noticeable

[pallid gust]

Ah alr

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/67d15472c9d1659c ground and fire are still tough

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[worthy fjord]

Fire is like

Yea you cant do it at all without say scarf exca

Ground should be fine juggling between treads and skarm tho

[random wadi]

btw can I switch goodra for arch?

[worthy fjord]

You can but that doesnt do you much good meow

Cerul has z move so it would just punch through it

Most steelbreakers are also special

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/f9e9ed74248b6ebf

[narrow linden]

Anyone got any tips for my natdex doubles ubers draft team? Any changes its 6v6 and im obviously going for a trick room team. Im very new to comp so any help would be very much appreciated!

[distant hearth]

For Draft stuff you'd have better luck asking in https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1320229793270337536, be sure to note the pertinent stuff as explained in the pinned posts of that thread

Also...

!shareteam

[dry ridge]

Pokémon Showdown's team database is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply save your team to Showdown's database and you can share your team offsite by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team, scroll to the bottom of the team, untick the checkbox to make your team public, and press the button that says Upload to Showdown database.

You can then take the link to your team and share that link to share the team with other people.

[distant hearth]

That said, if by "draft", you meant "a team that's in development building-wise", rather than "a team for a variant of a tier in which users "buy" certain pools of Pokemon and sort out what they can make with that", then that'd belong here, you may want to clarify in any case, however, and do note that posting the team in the manner explained by Chatot generally gathers more attention from knowledgeable raters

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/242db168398b5f38

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[boreal horizon]

https://pokepast.es/b84f2899f36cd982 someone perfect ts plz

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid oriole]

mola, zyg, and gira feels redundant.

id either drop zyg or drop gira for ho-oh.

to make the most out of mola you usually want a wallbreaker to switch into, so if you go with the former option add marshadow or something, and if you go with the latter option, id then replace mola with something else.

though you could also make zyg dragon dance, which mola lets you do without instantly folding to marshadow

[distant hearth]

!arbitraryformats

[dry ridge]

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: #1373406929317269624 message

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for Smogon and Nintendo formats.

[stoic spear]

Oh, sorry. :X Deleted it

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/242db168398b5f38

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[low ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/chatot-pokemon-anime-gif-5089885543144071994

[atomic salmon]

sup we be busy, and still see the pings from the first time you submit it. no need to keep sending the same team thrice we'll get to it when available

second can you tell me like the thought process behind this rainless water?

[random wadi]

oh sry, really I just wanted to try something different then just rain

[low ruin]

Aqua jet isn’t needed on scarf shifu ; cm Defog Fini feels a little awkward to pilot

[atomic salmon]

nah u good, always nice to try and be creative overall, its what makes us unique and special. i prob honestly would take away av alo and just add in empoleon there for a more comfortable kyurem swap in. and add in ice spinner over jet on shifu

[low ruin]

Empoleon feels really nice ya av mola feels like a kyu kommo last resort but u have z ice I feel like im more inclined on not having both in terms of resourcefulness ; I think I’d do different zs in the case of not having z haze but empoleon gets fog too so that’s pretty nice

[atomic salmon]

with empoleon now it helps stregthen your hazard stack comp while also being able to keep pivoting still via flip turn

[random wadi]

oh you're right, didn't notice aqua jet it should be ice spinner

[atomic salmon]

you also are bulu weak rn so i would add in poison jab or sludge bomb on pex instead of toxic

[low ruin]

Also nice for the cm taunt finis that’s nice too yaa

[random wadi]

and about fini I feel like I would need defogger since to be honest going without hazard removal while you have one would feel like a death sentence against any hazard ready team

[atomic salmon]

well if u think about it

[random wadi]

forget that thing ever existed

[boreal horizon]

is ho oh gonna be my wall breaker then

[pallid oriole]

no, ho-oh's just good cause brave bird is a good button and regenerator on it is ridiculous and its a good defogger. ho-oh's strong, but its not really a wallbreaker

if you are running ho-oh, dd zyg, mola, pdon, darceus, and pogre i guess you dont really have a wallbreaker, but mola lets you actually use dd zyg so it still kinda has a purpose. if you want something mroe offensvie, you could use tera flying ho-oh, which is somethnig that at least vaugely resembles a wallbreaker

wallbreaker pogre (primal kyogre) also comes to mind. im hesitant to say you should, but im running it through my brain and no major problems with using it comes to mind

though id like someone else to second this before i actually say you should use it.

[solemn zodiac]

i mean it can be if you really wanted it

band hooh breaks

[pallid oriole]

yeah but if you drop gira for band ho-oh you dont really have a defogger

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/944789bdf33f8679 this feel terrible

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic salmon]

sup sup why does it feel terrible?

[random wadi]

idk if stall has any merits to be good and I just don't know how to feel about this really

[atomic salmon]

beats like electric mainly thats about it, overall this team is just way too passive in this metagame and gets bullied out by mutltiple stallbreakers in this tier.

tbh your build is like going for a similar approach like the sample https://pokepast.es/03bad939b5c29d6b would honestly just utilize this

[boreal horizon]

icl I rly wanna run a ultra necrozma sweep what shld I use

[pallid oriole]

ultra necrozma is mostly exclusive to hyper offense. webs is great, but it can also work great on hazard stack iirc.

[pallid gust]

https://pokepast.es/6f917651a164ac45 thoughts

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pallid oriole]

few things. right off the bat Zacian wants swords dance. usually zacian sets are SD/Wild Charge/Close Combat or Tera Blast Ground/Behemoth Blade or Play Rough. Also Primal Groudon running both Overheat and Heat Crash just might be the most unusual choice I've seen on it. But that segways into the main thing. This is very clearly hyper offense, and you usually want a hazard lead on it. Primal Groudon fitting that role isn't unheard of, but something like Deoxys Speed for hazard stack is more standard. Hyper offense also usually doesnt run defog (or any hazard removal outside of their lead if they have a rapid or mortal spin) as they usually want to keep their hazards up, so you should probably replace Defog on Yveltal with Taunt.

Also Eternatus here is the Wallbreaker set, and usually on hyper offense you want to go with the slightly different Meteor Beam set, which has... wait a minute, i think you made a mistake there, your power herb eternatus doesnt have meteor beam. anyways as i was saying, meteor beam (stupid name for a set imo since there are two sets that run meteor beam) diferentiates itself from wallbreaker by running sludge bomb in place of recover, and carrying tera dragon or in some cases tera fire

[pallid gust]

yeeaaa... i think ill stick to the toedscruel team

but thanks

[vestal sail]

https://pokepast.es/c4cc3c3e107b55ed
participating in a black and yellow (including all electric and dark types besides incin) only pokemon tournament for natdex doubles (should i use scrafty or gambit over hariyama?)

any thoughts on this (i feel like ev spreads could be better)

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant hearth]

!arbitraryformats

[dry ridge]

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: #1373406929317269624 message

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for Smogon and Nintendo formats.

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/deef7d5fc0bf9022 people is this good?

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[random wadi]

https://pokepast.es/4bb29e89631a6be5

[dry ridge]

Hey @random wadi, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexbh. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[solemn zodiac]

ok so chien pao

i have no idea what it does over zac-c

(which btw has free item and ability in ndbh)

the improofing in general is also like. not it

screens setup is a neat idea but its much better done in svbh than ndbh imo because of the prevalence of spectral thief everywhere (so the only guys that can really abuse it are normceus and slaking/gigas)

you also kinda never break dondozo/slowbro ever

or even some lesser guy like fc hooh

*without instantly losing to their imposter

and u really cant stop any pheal setup mon

that's my take altho i havent played this in forever so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[random wadi]

before I had chomp it was this gigas set
Regigigas @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Normalize
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

• V-create
• Extreme Speed
• Swords Dance
• Multi-Attack