#NatDex Other Tiers

1 messages · Page 14 of 1

worthy fjord
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Tho

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No M.Gal or Valiant here is a bit weird tho, Breloom isnt really that good these days and if you want a fight prio theres kommy

grand spear
worthy fjord
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Pex hazes you btw

grand spear
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I thought +1 Soulblaze OHKOs

worthy fjord
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The issue is tho you dont really check lele as both the types it has will set hazards and can prevent tusky from spinning away hazaeds due to threat of team mates or ouright killing it

worthy fjord
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Oh it does

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Thats scary

grand spear
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Yeah lele mu is generally auto loss but that's the fighting experience really

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if a fighting team doesn't suck ass into psychic is it really a fighting team? 🥹 /j

worthy fjord
grand spear
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we check every Lele that's below 1300 :trollface:

undone gyro
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https://pokepast.es/ec60328732de5759

pls help idk what im doing i wanna learn movesets n abilities cuz usually i just casually press wtv attack when playing pokemon and hope for the best

distant hearth
undone gyro
dry ridgeBOT
distant hearth
undone gyro
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thank u

dry ridgeBOT
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Hey @lyric mist, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen8nationaldex. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

tender mango
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Hello guys im new to pvp and was trying to build a team around espeed sweep arceus and came up with this.

is this good ? or do i make changes. I still need to fill in a 6th mon.

https://pokepast.es/1a93abd1dfa7cea4

distant hearth
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!pixelmon

dry ridgeBOT
#

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1373406929317269624

Do not ask for assistance with fangames, Minecraft/Roblox mods, or other such titles. These games/mods have mechanics and available Pokémon which do not match those in the actual Pokémon games or Smogon's formats, and are often played with arbitrary rulesets.

muted echo
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Rate my team

image.png
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(Could it beat an Urshifu?)

solemn zodiac
muted echo
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Oh okay

distant hearth
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!shareteam

dry ridgeBOT
#

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muted echo
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @simple stag, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upbeat beacon
covert wedge
dry ridgeBOT
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Hey @covert wedge, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

covert wedge
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-w-

grand spear
covert wedge
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So just validate it under different tag?

covert wedge
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

worthy fjord
# covert wedge https://psim.us/t/1326200 Same thing I only made Ninetales shiny so I could uplo...

This is a bit too passive for mono ice and dont really mesh as well together

For instance, Walrein being passive makes it possible to spin away or defog the hazards set by mamoswine

There's also no speed control in this team, like for instance a hh jirachi would be able to just meow on you late-game, as well as something like Tapu lele (Scarf), so would suggest having either scarf Weavile (kills Jirach with punishment btw >:3) or Slush Rush Cetitan (has Z Belly drum to be a great cleaner meow)

For sub mons, Kyurem feels nicer than walrein possibly, mainly due to fdry ground coverage being better than water ice coverage. Its also relatively much more faster and kills the pex which can be an issue for these guys.

covert wedge
distant hearth
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NatDex Other Tiers

low juniper
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W edit

solemn zodiac
grand spear
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for a sec I thought ND Non-OU vanished and got really sad

distant hearth
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Not on my watch, lol

dry ridgeBOT
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Hey @open anvil, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

solemn zodiac
grand spear
fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

worthy fjord
limpid pawn
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cat

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why would you take out Luna for Zoroark

muted echo
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @simple stag, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upbeat beacon
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Hi, nice to see you try out ND DOU! Unfortunately, the team, for the most part, is unviable against the top threats of the metagame. You could still use Scizor (Mega form) and Heatran (without the Balloon). To have a better understanding of the metagame, take a look at the viabilty rankings (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-doubles-viability-rankings.3757433/). If anything catches your eyes, then I can start helping you out.

frozen jasper
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

crimson obsidian
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I'd recommend taking a look through there is not really much to work with here given blissey is the only viable Mon on your team

distant hearth
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This almost looks like a NDRU team NGL, I'd recommend to rework it for that meta

static garnet
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saw the mega scrafty leaks and thought that not only did its stats look crazy but its design looked sick asl so i decided to build a team around scrafty, and recomendations appreciated (doubles nat dex) https://pokepast.es/2836e648135d313a

distant hearth
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Please label the tier of your team properly so it can then automatically ping the pertinent raters

@simple stag @upbeat beacon NDDOU team

upbeat beacon
# static garnet saw the mega scrafty leaks and thought that not only did its stats look crazy bu...

I don't think it is appropriate to rate a team based on speculations alone. On the hand, most of the mons in your team are viable in the ND DOU metagame. Bronzong is used best when it is a Z-Trick Room + Hypnosis user. However, this would mean Tapu Fini cannot be used along side it; Misty Terrain prevents any status conditions. Togekiss is outclassed by Jirachi, Amoonguss, and the Ogerpons as a redirector, so I don't recommend using the mon. Sinistcha is fine as a redirector and trick room setter. Heatran is also fine as a trick room attacker although Mega Camerupt is better should you choose to go that route. Ping me if you want to have further suggestions.

covert wedge
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https://psim.us/t/1337121
Hm so I remade the team a few times but still feel like something is missing. Maybe I can remake something here?

dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

patent sandal
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https://pokepast.es/9b2c0a36c979cad0

Natdex ubers paraspam team. It's heavily modified from a team I found on the natdex ubers bazaar a while ago (no idea where that original team is).

Some of the sets are less conventional, but I have found success with it up to about 1550 (I am a pretty mediocre player).

A few explanations:

Iron tail kang is a niche callout to kill specifically bulky sash hatterene. Yes I really hate trick room that much. It also sometimes allows for funny stallbreaking shenanigans with double defense drop.

Core enforcer Zygarde is specifically to improve Coil Zygarde 1v1. It also allows you to occasionally shut off an annoying ability like M-Mence's Aerialate, Yveltal's Dark Aura, and the primal weathers.

Special Groudon is basically to nuke things with eruption, and oneshot opposing P-Dons with earth power. Rock tomb is specifically for flying sweepers and 4x rock weak mons like Ho-Oh, Rayquaza, and any pokemon that Groudon can tank that you want to be slower.

Obviously the gameplan for this team is to cripple as many mons as possible with paralysis, and then sweep with one of the wallbreakers.

I would take any and all suggestions! I wouldn't say I am very good at teambuilding.

crimson obsidian
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Hi, it sounds like maybe you'd be interested in sticky webs? It seems to fit best with the type of gameplay you're looking for

patent sandal
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I mean, it’s a possibility but idk where I would slot that

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I thought webs were more for enabling HO. This is more slow offense

distant hearth
# covert wedge https://psim.us/t/1337121 Hm so I remade the team a few times but still feel lik...

  • Flash Cannon hits little for Kyurem that Earth Power + Freeze-Dry doesn't, more specifically it's already forced out by Fairy-types, if anything, given that Kyurem is generally a Fire-type check for Ice teams, you'd want the more standard bulkier Substitute + Roost set, especially as the team otherwise also seems weak to stall, such as those seen in Mono Water and Mono Poison

  • The team seems to lean on a bulkier direction, so a lead Mamoswine is quite out of place, Piloswine would be a better pick here so it can complement Kyurem at checking common threats to Ice teams like Mega Diancie and Mega Charizard Y

  • Weavile really wants Pursuit here, as part of its niche in Ice teams is ensuring the removal of key worn down threats as a reliable revenge killer, so I would recommend using the more standard set involving Triple Axel / Pursuit / Low Kick / Knock Off

  • Cloyster would benefit more from a Naive nature, given this is going mixed and its Special Defense is lacking either way, given it's a late-game sweeper it'd also want Waterium Z to overwhelm checks, given that the bulk "retained" by White Herb after a Shell Smash isn't as notable in comparison

  • Heal Bell is unlikely to be used in practice as Alolan Ninetales does not have the longevity for that sort of role, Encore would shine more so that it can gain momentum and ease switching to an ally that's enabled by Aurora Veil and/or Snow

https://pokepast.es/179c1fb76d91f594

Here's the team with the above fixes, I hope it helps you. It's also worth noting that I fixed some spreads to line up to more standard ones, given that there was no justification given from deviating away from them

distant hearth
# patent sandal I thought webs were more for enabling HO. This is more slow offense

If you mean like bulky offense that's nowadays monopolized by GHAZ (Primal Groudon + Ho-Oh + Arceus (mostly Dark) + Zygarde) structures. Mega Kangaskhan is funny but also quite unreliable, even against Trick Room teams as Iron Tail has rather unreliable accuracy, GHAZ is quite tough for Trick Room teams to beat with sufficiently smart play, so I would recommend to just grab a sample team if that's what calls your attention. If you want to use M-Kangaskhan in particular I'd recommend to look at ND Ubers UU for that purpose, although it's still niche over there

covert wedge
next yoke
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @simple stag, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

next yoke
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it is good?

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could someone improve this team ?

upbeat beacon
# next yoke https://pokepast.es/fbd4eaa064348a96

Hi! I cannot realistically say that this is a good team. A well planned out team usually focuses on one or two archetypes, but in the case of weathers, it is always only one. Mega Charizard, (Mega) Tyranitar, Iron Hands, and Blastoise (not Wartotle) are all viable Pokémon in this tier. If there is a specific weather that you would like to work on, then feel free to ping me and I'll do my best to help you out.

subtle flame
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

atomic salmon
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please tell me there arent like any specific rules with your friends 💀

subtle flame
atomic salmon
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kk i gotchu

atomic salmon
subtle flame
atomic salmon
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if this is ndm and doing a balance / rainless water comp. can start off with the urshifu + greninja core your going for and then fill out the rest.

  • Pex should be physdef here and removing volcanion for a water ground would be most appreciated. swampert is dope, team lacking pivoting. we have av prim in this comp to handle / trade with kyurem
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so like urshifu / gren / pex / water ground / filler / filler is what you should be going for

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pex can run z haze and urshifu can utilize choice scarf here

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if you want to forgo rainless water and go for rain water to really role compress a electric immunity and a rain sweeper, mega swampert is a solid choice

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its just slow as shit as i mention b4 scarf meow can just doink it even in rain but you have pex to deal with it

subtle flame
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I don't mind going for a rain team tbh, especially considering they might go for weather themselves, i just dont any expirience with weather team so idk who get the buffs from there, i just know that i need to keep pelipper safe

atomic salmon
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right,

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you can drop waterpon for pex if you want

subtle flame
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i would more like to drop the kaldeo tbh, not for any praticular reseon, i just dont like him

atomic salmon
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and can do like poison jab over flip turn if your afraid of a fairy load, mainly bulu

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oh thats so real

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lmao

subtle flame
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xd, would urshifu be a good switch in?

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why the 9 speed iv?

atomic salmon
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keldeo can be swap for like z manaphy or urshifu ya, just the problem is you dont really have a hard hitting special mon now if adding urshifu

subtle flame
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on pelipper

atomic salmon
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u underspeed hippo

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so you activate rain vs it t1

subtle flame
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ohhh ok got it!

atomic salmon
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you can do like

subtle flame
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manaphy is good too, super cute, whats a z-manphy? i guess tail glow z?

atomic salmon
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ya

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Manaphy @ Waterium Z
Ability: Hydration
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Tail Glow
  • Surf
  • Psychic
  • Rest
subtle flame
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0 atk cause foul play right? im still kinda new to the competitve aspect

atomic salmon
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ya it just a given

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and ur fine it seems even if ur new you know some things

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which is good!

subtle flame
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Okay, I think I'll go with the team you sent me with the Manaphy, thank you for all the help! any pointers i should consider before starting?

atomic salmon
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honestly, just make your rain turns count, preserve pelipper as much as you can, and should be victorious overall.

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gl!

subtle flame
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thank you!

subtle flame
# atomic salmon gl!

tried now a few battles, couldnt figured the role of empoleon, is he just a tank?

atomic salmon
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ya just a special tank / pivoter / hazard setter / fairy + kyurem check

subtle flame
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oh so basically just the defensive steel check on the team

atomic salmon
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ya its part steel typing really helps with this team

subtle flame
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kk ty!

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ok its look like that aslong as i dont get in a fight agaisnt Ferrothorn in good

atomic salmon
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thats wh💀 ere keldeo came it

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where*

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lol

subtle flame
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worth the lose 🙂

atomic salmon
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😭

subtle flame
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XD

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yea but i handled like grass and electric pretty decent i would say

atomic salmon
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thats good!

subtle flame
atomic salmon
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banned

subtle flame
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oh lol havnt noticed

native prism
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@atomic salmon @soft lion @worthy fjord @grim cobalt @runic sage

soft lion
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You're probably good to load this up and do well

native prism
soft lion
digital frigate
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

solemn zodiac
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i would suggest just scrapping zekrom and make it an NDOU team instead

digital frigate
solemn zodiac
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as i've said every mon except for zekrom is legal in ndou

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and if you're doing some weird format where each person only gets 1 legend or something then

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!arbitraryformats

dry ridgeBOT
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Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: #1373406929317269624 message

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for formats hosted on the Smogon forums, such as VGC and OU.

digital frigate
solemn zodiac
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we don't rate teams for those here

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you can try in #pkmn-general though since its not strictly smogon related

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although the quality might be subpar

dry ridgeBOT
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Hey @subtle flame, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9monotype team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059658237097545758 instead.

subtle flame
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

worthy fjord
# subtle flame Hey, my friends and I are doing a tourny of Netdex monotype with a few changes, ...

You dont put acro in chien pao 🙀
Just use ice shard or sucker whichever floats your car

If Z moves allowed Z belly drum is better on cetitan

Encore is better than taunt on bundle, as taunt means whatevers pivoting in will get hit

Scarf darm is better since band pao breaks up everyone because cats are the opest things in the world

AV kyu isnt the worst, but I would check on what coverage you'd want off it. Like maybe stone edge for volcarona, or investing bulk to survive a close combat/Bullet Punch (M.Sciz) from someone under snow to nuke it. Depends really. You could also check out on Piloswine for rocks so that sturdy cant interfere with a Cetit sweep. In that case, consider removing darm g and making kyu specs or scarf, up to you mrrp

subtle flame
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For the kyurem, run a physical set? Or mixed?

limpid pawn
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the team looks pretty HO if anything

worthy fjord
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Well Chien Pao cant

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Its a good cat.

subtle flame
worthy fjord
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Z belly is "better" since its guaranteed to work regardless of HP

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So if the oppo drops you to 20% you can still bd

worthy fjord
subtle flame
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but like in theory i should be faster with slush rush no?

worthy fjord
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They really wont knock vs any of your team tbh

worthy fjord
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You get it in to meowder someone

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Then you retreat for bding later

worthy fjord
subtle flame
limpid pawn
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i’d rather you run a special since you have 3 physical mons

worthy fjord
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Just run scarf/specs depending on what you want

limpid pawn
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PLEASE put specs

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it’s BEGGING for it

worthy fjord
subtle flame
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i can also change one restricted to bax if hell fit better

worthy fjord
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You can use SD Bax

limpid pawn
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that’s honestly fine

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good fire answer + hits hard too

worthy fjord
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Dont drop chien poo ;-;

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Its a nice cat

subtle flame
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the other option to drop is bundle

limpid pawn
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neko will haunt you if you drop it

subtle flame
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and they both seemed for me with higer value

worthy fjord
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Ngl

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Bundle + Bax

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Pao + Bundle + Kyu

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Would be the pairings

limpid pawn
worthy fjord
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Bundle Bax then get Scarf Weevil

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Pao Bundle ScarfKyu is just fine

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Scarf kyu mainly just takes out stuff randomly

subtle flame
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kyurem isnt restricted right? from what i saw hes allowed

worthy fjord
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Depending on the other restricted

worthy fjord
subtle flame
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only ice got restricted

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cause kinda hard to play without

limpid pawn
worthy fjord
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This ice with 2 resrricted is super broken

limpid pawn
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^

subtle flame
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basicly same rules just ice can choose 2 of the 3

subtle flame
worthy fjord
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Like I would expect this team to go toe to toe with like FM / M.Maw restricted

limpid pawn
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but what are the rules btw

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seeing what’s allowed will help greatly

subtle flame
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same as mono national dex

worthy fjord
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Other types can have 1 restricted while others have 2?

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Lik

limpid pawn
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then how is Pao allowed

subtle flame
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nope, just ice get restricted

worthy fjord
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Bruh

limpid pawn
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ok but like can we see the restrictions is what i’m asking

subtle flame
worthy fjord
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Yea

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Thats so imbalanced

limpid pawn
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that’s VERY op

worthy fjord
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Anyway you can go ham on any of the combos tbh

subtle flame
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thats why i picked it xd

worthy fjord
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Pao Bundle, Bundle Bax

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Pao Bax also works but the first 2 complement each other better

limpid pawn
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the fact that Ice has little restrictions is a bit odd but then again

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go crazy

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go stupid

subtle flame
worthy fjord
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Scarf is wanted on something since everyone will cteam the type

limpid pawn
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Glaive

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EQ

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Ice stab and then DD?

subtle flame
worthy fjord
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SD Shard Scaleshot Eq, DD Glaive or Icicle Crash Eq Shard or Icicle crash

subtle flame
limpid pawn
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.

worthy fjord
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I kinda like your idea of pivoty bundle to enable Pao Cetit tbh

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But up to you meow

limpid pawn
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As long as Cetitan can safely set up

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This is PRETTY broken

subtle flame
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i really hope, tho hes pretty much fragile against most prio

worthy fjord
subtle flame
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maybe mega snow?

worthy fjord
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Also scarf weavile

subtle flame
worthy fjord
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As I mentioned, everyone will try to just meowder you

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So that means packing scarf close combats

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Or even something like just z happy hour jirachi

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So some scarf is wanted to just at least knock off the opposing scarf (punishment for the z movers)

subtle flame
worthy fjord
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Knock, Punishment, (Triple Axel, Low Kick, or Iron Tail)

subtle flame
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punishment is after they switch or in the turn they switch?

worthy fjord
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Thats assuramce

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Punishment is +20 for every boost

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So thats punishing Z Happy hours

subtle flame
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oh lol

worthy fjord
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Sure

earnest vine
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Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Band
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Brave Nature

  • Hyperspace Fury
  • Zen Headbutt
  • Focus Punch
  • Snore

Aggron-Mega (M) @ Aggronite
Ability: Rock Head
Hidden Power: Fighting
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature

  • Heavy Slam
  • Body Press
  • Iron Defense
  • Protect

Venusaur @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Leech Seed
  • Toxic
  • Protect
  • Block

Hatterene @ Leftovers
Ability: Healer
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Heal Pulse
  • Trick
  • Light Screen
  • Trick Room

Incineroar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Def / 120 SpD
Brave Nature

  • Darkest Lariat
  • Fake Out
  • Flare Blitz
  • Parting Shot

Baxcalibur @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Sassy Nature

  • Ice Shard
  • Glaive Rush
  • Iron Head
  • Brick Break
lime patrol
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ok

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lets start with the move choices

earnest vine
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taking notes

lime patrol
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hoopa has choice band but also snore, why does it have snore?

earnest vine
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i have a friend that likes sleep teams

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and i hate his team with a passion

lime patrol
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even so snore is 50 base power, if you really despise sleep that much use tapu koko or tapu lele for terrain

earnest vine
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ayy! hats true!

lime patrol
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electric terrain blocks sleep and misty terrain blocks every major status condition

earnest vine
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okokok

lime patrol
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bax looks out of place

lime patrol
earnest vine
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ok

lime patrol
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hoopa is fine in trick room but make it minus speed, its physical defense is bad though so its vulnerable to fake out

earnest vine
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okok

lime patrol
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you can try protect life orb if you want but band shouldnt be awful

earnest vine
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okokok

lime patrol
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also not sure about focus punch

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if youre banded youre locked into that and if your opponent knows this its useless, you can give it gunk shot or drain punch

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and tera stellar is usually bad

earnest vine
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gunk shot would work best i think

lime patrol
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you can try poison or fighting

earnest vine
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okokok

lime patrol
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Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Band
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

  • Hyperspace Fury
  • Zen Headbutt
  • Gunk Shot
  • Drain Punch

maybe something like this

earnest vine
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yeah that could work

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ok

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ok

lime patrol
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next up is aggron, it is not bad with filter, it gets really strong with i def body press

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evs add on stat points, at level 100 4 evs raise a stat by 1 point

earnest vine
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the ability is locked after mega

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ok

lime patrol
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you can give a stat 252 evs so 63 points in other words

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if you give this to a stat thats around 160 it goes to around 220 right?

earnest vine
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yeah

lime patrol
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so its almost a 40% increase

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but if you give 252 evs to aggrons defense it goes from 496 to 559, around a 10% increase since the stat is too high

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since aggrons defense is already so high it doesnt need evs, you would better give them to hp or attack

earnest vine
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okok. but im using heavy slam and body pres for damage. so ithink hp is better

lime patrol
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yeah and protect is fine

#

Aggron-Mega (M) @ Aggronite
Ability: Rock Head
Hidden Power: Fighting
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature

  • Heavy Slam
  • Body Press
  • Iron Defense
  • Protect
#

if you want trick room make it sassy and 0 speed ivs

earnest vine
#

okokoko

#

btw. is tricking on my aggron so it gets the leftovers after it has mega evolved a good strat?

lime patrol
#

you cant do that

#

you cant trick mega stones

earnest vine
#

oh..... well shit

#

fine. then il do someting else

#

with the hattarin

lime patrol
#

trick room is good to have

#

you can always give it healing wish or dazzling gleam

earnest vine
#

ok ok. dazling seems good

#

i dont need reflect cuzz agron has insane defense

lime patrol
#

yeah

#

for venusaur im not sure, its not that bulky

earnest vine
#

im using it to set up leech seed and blocking in the enemy so agron can have a source of healing

lime patrol
#

i dont think it works like that, if you switch from venusaur to aggron block expires

#

you can try sinistcha maybe? it has hospitality and life dew

earnest vine
#

oh....

#

yeah sure. do i just run macha gacha, life dew and some support

lime patrol
#

i guess yeah

#

it has rage powder

#

strength sap, stun spore, trick room

earnest vine
#

okokok. so 2 trick room setters. i mean. good to have a back up

lime patrol
#

i mean yeah, one might get knocked out

#

people run even more like 3

earnest vine
#

that seems exesive

lime patrol
#

also change hats tera

#

tera stellar is not good

earnest vine
#

ok. steel?

#

for defense?

lime patrol
#

maybe, steel, ghost

#

try out stuff

earnest vine
#

okok

lime patrol
#

give knock off to incineroar

#

if you have assault best you cant have parting shot

#

you can either give it u turn or change the vest

earnest vine
#

okok

#

knock of instead of darkest lariet

#

but sinichas item?

lime patrol
#

i dont know, leftovers i guess?

earnest vine
#

sure

#

i max out hp and spa?

lime patrol
#

not special attack

earnest vine
#

ok

lime patrol
#

does it have strength sap?

earnest vine
#

yeah

lime patrol
#

then go spdef

#

with some defense

earnest vine
#

okok

lime patrol
#

incin is cool, change the tera

earnest vine
#

ok to what?

lime patrol
#

i dont really know what is used in nat dex doubles, if you want to counter your friend you can choose a tera for it

earnest vine
#

okok

#

mayby grass

lime patrol
#

alright

earnest vine
#

okok. but baxcalubur i have found to be op with ice shard tera ice

#

or iron head tera steel

lime patrol
#

hm

#

you can keep it

#

what sleep putters does your friend use

earnest vine
#

just one. the dreaded amoongus

lime patrol
#

sinistcha with rage powder can help with that

earnest vine
#

okokok

#

so str sap or powder

lime patrol
#

hm

#

if sleep really annoys you powder

earnest vine
#

okokoko

#

thanks. il tets the team against him tommorow

#

thank u x1000

lime patrol
#

youre welcome, you can send a replay as well

earnest vine
#

okokok i will. hes new. and ive just started trying comp so. were mid players

#

file:///C:/Users/arbea011/Downloads/Gen9NationalDexDoubles-2025-10-30-bontheboomer1234-jaklade.html heres the link to the first fight with the new team

lime patrol
#

you need to upload

#

upload and share replay

earnest vine
#

okok

lime patrol
#

nice, sinistcha was good see

earnest vine
#

yeah. mvp

#

i didnt know it was so bulky

#

impossible to kill. even with multipule breakwind storms

earnest vine
lime patrol
#

dont mention it, just play more and make changes when something doesnt work

earnest vine
#

yeah. i will

limpid pawn
earnest vine
#

yes. biggie

earnest vine
#

hihihiiiiii

#

i swear if these pokemon are ever in the same gen!

limpid pawn
#

why did you let Mega Aggron 1. set up.

#
  1. let it set up, stay IN, and send in 2 pokemon it can check and KO
#
  1. send in its answer AFTER it set up, and got it OHKO’d
lime patrol
limpid pawn
#

i wish people clarify which team they’re using instead of posting a paste and having people guess!

distant hearth
#

Replay play feedback would go better in #comp-general BTW

earnest vine
#

okokokok

native prism
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

distant hearth
native prism
distant hearth
#

Nothing that's inherently better per-say, for example you could try out Tera Fairy Lunala to flip its matchup on its checks while also enhancing its Moonblast, but Tera Ghost is still nice to better overwhelm walls, so this'd be good to go, yes

crimson obsidian
#

use 248 hp / 4 def / 16 spa / 104 spd / 136+ spe on arceus-dark

#

and swap the arceus-dark to tera poison with taunt

native prism
distant hearth
#

Outspeeding non +Spe nature base 120s like Arceus, M-Salamence, and Palkia-O can be appealing, but that'd also include the tradeback of having a worse matchup against Yveltal and Chi-Yu, Tera Poison + Taunt would only be desirable if this is paired with Tera Fairy Zygarde for the before-mentioned reasons

crimson obsidian
#

double ghost is very tricky to make work, but if you're running less than 341 speed on Arceus you kinda need zac-c

#

on something like this

distant hearth
#

TBH this is making me notice that Arceus-Dark could use some updates on its analysis, but that's another topic
Bumboclaat's suggestions are worthwhile

limpid pawn
distant hearth
#

There's some plans for revamping half of the meta-defining sets given some considerable shifts lately + to align with a more readable format, but that'll take a few more weeks as some surveys are sorted out

limpid pawn
#

i do need a bit of help with the team i’ve been using though, i’ll post it here in a bit

limpid pawn
#

hi…. i’ve been using this and it’s been carrying me well on the ladder. but i know i can do better, if may, can i get advice on how to make this BO team better? https://pokepast.es/d0b77cca42616c6a

dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

distant hearth
# limpid pawn hi…. i’ve been using this and it’s been carrying me well on the ladder. but i kn...

The lack of PDon alongside the use of DD Zygarde and offensive POgre would lead me to believe that this is more inclined to offense than the standard BO structures, so I would recommend to swap Giratina-O with Bulk Up Marshadow, which'd fit nicely as it compresses as a better offensive Ghost-type, a revenge killer, and as a wallbreaker that benefits from MMY and Zacian-C nuking its checks. Arceus-Fairy is a poor SR setter as it only preys on Giratina-O, while still losing to Ho-Oh and most leads, so it'd be better to just go with the lead M-Diancie set in its place, heavily easing the hazard leading interaction while also compressing as a Sticky Web and Yveltal check

I presume that the team is meant to be built around MMY, which is why I haven't been yelling about its myriad of issues and matchup fishy nature, but in any case here's a paste with those proposals applied (https://pokepast.es/88418cef60d59fcb), I hope it helps

limpid pawn
#

especially since i’m not using Ho-oh

#

but then again i was trying to compress a bit and it may not have came out good. Although ive never really faced a lot of issues with it on the ladder since i’ve been easily been able to help Mewtwo Y clean and sweep easily.

#

though this does help

#

thank you so much for the changes

distant hearth
limpid pawn
frozen jasper
#

does anyone have any good mega salamence teams

limpid pawn
#

but since xern is banned, you can use lunala

Lunala @ Power Herb
Ability: Shadow Shield
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

  • Moongeist Beam
  • Meteor Beam
  • Trick Room
  • Moonblast
frozen jasper
#

ok nice thx

pallid oriole
#

never seen offensive trick room lunala before

limpid pawn
#

it’s speed is GOD awful, so having Trick Room can help it to use its offense prowess to be a little shit

pallid oriole
#

just checked the team, it's pretty weird

limpid pawn
#

oh?

#

how so

pallid oriole
#

there's a bunch of unconventional decisions, such as sludge wave, outrage on salamence, and dragon dance giga impact normalium z arceus

#

a few of these might not have been that unconventional when xern was legal tho

#

my memory stinks but i do remember that at some point dragon dance was listed as an option for ekiller

limpid pawn
#

it is

#
  • Outrage is supposed to help against Zygarde
#

but that’s not always the case

#

since it run either use Double-Edge or return in place of it

#

works just as fine

#

it can honestly just run its DD set

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

  • Dragon Dance
  • Double-Edge
  • Earthquake
  • Roost
#

hits Pdon abd Zacian

pallid oriole
#

i wasnt nearly as knowlegable on the meta back then as i was now, so i cant really say a lot with any certainty, but i dont think arceus typically ran normalium z even back then

#

i do remember a council member using normalium z ekiller against me in tournament at one point, but that was well after the xern ban and to my knowlege arceus never had normalium z listed as an option on the analysis in gen 9

crimson obsidian
#

I would not recommend using a team from 2 years ago when Xerneas was legal

limpid pawn
#

that’s why i stopped myself

#

though tbh i could use some help since im not too sure i have enough know how to build for Mega mence

#

@crimson obsidian please help i don’t want to embarrass myself here 🙏🏾

crimson obsidian
#

Dragon dance or defog?

limpid pawn
frozen jasper
#

yea

#

uh

#

on which mon

#

oh

#

dd for salamence

limpid pawn
#

alright

distant hearth
sturdy pond
#

gotcha

distant hearth
#

That said, uh...

#

!arbitraryformats

dry ridgeBOT
#

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: #1373406929317269624 message

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for formats hosted on the Smogon forums, such as VGC and OU.

outer forge
#

Is this any good?? It's a casual team I made

Screenshot_20251106-201148.png
distant hearth
#

First off...

#

!shareteam

dry ridgeBOT
#

Pokémon Showdown's team database is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply save your team to Showdown's database and you can share your team offsite by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team, scroll to the bottom of the team, untick the checkbox to make your team public, and press the button that says Upload to Showdown database.

You can then take the link to your team and share that link to share the team with other people.

distant hearth
fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

cobalt arrow
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

solemn zodiac
#

i dont play this tier but surely 5 volt switches are unoptimal

runic sage
# cobalt arrow hello. I'm kinda new to competitive pokemon in general and wanna try out mono el...

Not the worst start but there are some things mononelectric needs. Firstly is iron hands which helps in the dragon mu and can actually pressure ground due to swords dance and shuca berry. I would also go pain split > rotom wash.

Furthermore, mega mane is ok but when you already have koko and raichu for special offence its not really as necessary. Zeraora is a better mon thanks to its coverage like close combat

#

Sandy shocks -> iron hands
Mega mane -> zeraora
Rotom wash pain split > thunder wave

#

Also koko needs hp ice or else gliscor flying kinda 6-0s electric

cobalt arrow
runic sage
#

There isn't a set number but you want a mix of physical and special

cobalt arrow
#

this flows better in match ngl

novel kayak
dry ridgeBOT
#

Hey @novel kayak, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

novel kayak
#

mb

novel steppe
#

Hi guys, what do yoou think of this team I made.

dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

crimson obsidian
#

There is one viable set on this team, I'd heavily suggest taking a look at some resources

novel steppe
#

ok thanks

#

p.s. It's my first team.

distant hearth
#

More specifically base Arceus has much better things to do than being a Defogger (namely the famous Extreme Killer set, Defog on it is nowadays niche on it even with a Plate as there's better options for that such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal), plus losing to Ghost-types by compromising crucial coverage over such utility sucks.

Lunala isn't quite justificable as a Z-Move user as that also compromises its damage output and tends to find better results with Power Herb + Meteor Beam to retain crucial KOs across the match over a one-time nuke, which isn't helped by the competition for such sort of role with Arceus-Ground, Ultra Necrozma, Necrozma-DM, and Chi-Yu.

Primal Groudon is running redundant coverage (which isn't ideal as it's already constrained of move slots as is), and seems to be trying weirdly to be a offensive support set considering the mix of utility, setup, and the unusual EV spread, generally it's better to stick to a defensive set given it's much more easy to fit on a team unless you know what you're doing.

Mega Lopunny is an extremely niche option, and it doesn't seem to fit here given the niche of a fast Healing Wish user would only shine in Hyper Offense (which this isn't), and the rest of the team isn't really viable, more specifically Shaymin-S is only Uber out of Air Slash + Serene Grace letting it cheese stuff in lower power levels, which is unreliable to say the least here as it's almost trivial to outspeed and KO offensively, and has statistically low odds to KO something out of often requiring to land 4 or more Air Slashes + inflicting flinching in a row to even try to overwhelm common special walls and hard-checks like Ho-Oh and Eternatus. Tinkaton is outclassed by Magearna, which in turn is outclassed by Fezandipiti and Ferrothorn given that the niche of checking Xerneas isn't valuable when that Pokemon is banned here to begin with.

I would recommend to just grab a sample team so you can familiarize with the metagame before trying to experiment

novel steppe
#

I guess I'll have to start again from the beginning.

#

Thanks for the extreamly long message, you're really dedicated.

crimson obsidian
#

It is very difficult to build for a metagame before you learn it if you're unfamiliar with it which is why bob recommended samples

novel steppe
#

Don't worry I listened to him, I'll study.

fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

atomic salmon
fleet spire
atomic salmon
#

well gliscor kinda just shits on this comp + trying to actively block + gastro acid the gliscor is a pain in the ass

#

i rather just utilize an offensive mon like nidoking over clodsire to handle gliscor

#

you also just compress nicely with being a breaker + providing stealth rock support to really doink annoying ass flying comps

#

that way as well you can just utilize like pursuit on alolan muk to pursuit trap annoying mons like greninja and friends

fleet spire
#

And which mon should I replace with nidoking?

atomic salmon
#

clod would be going bye bye here for nidoking

austere herald
#

is it true that only I can be ladder top 100 with stall teams

random wadi
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

river vault
#

fiddling around with a core to setup an iron crown and made this team
which im fairly happy with, but im kind of floating around 1500 elo with it and ive hit a bit of a wall...

#

any help would be appreciated

dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @simple stag, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upbeat beacon
#

@river vault , this is not a bad start, but your team could use a couple of improvements. First off, your team is very weak to Fire type moves, so you definitely would want at least two Pokemon that are resistant to them. I can also see what you’re trying to do with Tapu Koko and the Pokemon with the Quark Drive ability. However, there’s better ways of utilizing these Pokemon. As weird as it may sound, Iron Crowns is best used with Indeedee-F with Booster Energy (for Speed). Take a look at this team as an example: https://pokepast.es/81f393b0975d6a16. If you want to go the route of using Iron Leaves instead, I can gladly assist you on that. Other things that I want to point out is that you generally wouldn’t use a weather setter without a weather abuser or use Trick Room in a team where the majority of the team is already fast, particularly with Quark Drive. Let me know (by pinging me) on what you would like to do.

grand spear
#

Air Slash over Toxic on Steela is also an option as MVenu looks similarly problematic

fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

atomic salmon
#

team looks fine, just moreso of positioning. mega scizor should easily deal with kyurem and i would prob do like z fairy here with dazzling gleam on gholdengo to deal with kommo-o better

fleet spire
atomic salmon
#

freeze is not always happening

fleet spire
#

And I ragequit after that lol

atomic salmon
#

and if it does then thats just unfortunate

#

ya then thats about it

fleet spire
atomic salmon
#

yeah i'd test it out afterwards, mega zard y seems like a bitch too but that would require changing a mon or two to deal with it

#

after the change, test the team out more and see wassup

random wadi
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

grand spear
#

Probably want to go Poltergeist over Close Combat on Ceruledge and then probably swap Sash out for Ghostium Z

fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

atomic salmon
fleet spire
#

Is the team perfect?

atomic salmon
#

well no team is perfect, but it is a solid team that will have great success

fleet spire
#

Is there something should I fix on a team?

distant hearth
#

This is fairly standard and the most that could be done are sidegrade changes that wouldn't really improve it per-say, but rather ease some matchups in exchange of others, for example, you could go with U-turn over a coverage move on Greninja to ease momentum early-game, at the cost of no longer pressuring as well certain opponents

dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

nova shadow
distant hearth
# nova shadow https://pokepast.es/25101f6943bbe5b9 any tips pls? i do pretty decent with this ...

– You'd want Tera Steel over Tera Normal for Smeargle, given it lets Smeargle prevent Glimmora and other Smeargle from removing its own Sticky Web with Mortal Spin

  • Arceus-Ghost is quite out of place here, besides being quite niche and facing a ton of competition in general, this sort of set is too passive for hyper offense, you'd want to just go with Chi-Yu as to make an offensive core with Yveltal while also easing the act of keeping Sticky Web up

  • Zygarde is outclassed by Arceus as a Extreme Speed breaker, I'd recommend to just replace it with that here, but you could also just go with a more standard Dragon Dance set, although this can be more matchup fishy

  • Mega Lucario is unviable in the current metagame, it's outclassed by Marshadow and Zacian-C, in particular you'd want Zacian-C here in fact, given it's also a borderline staple on Sticky Web structures

Here's a paste with a variant of the above suggestions, I hope this helps!
https://pokepast.es/677a6f45e995fced

fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

runic sage
# fleet spire https://pokepast.es/349ee14fa375375a Weird but work azumarill set.

I cannot really fathom why bulldoze and bounce would be superior to your fairy STAB and knock off but that's my first recommendation. You also don't need defog on klefki since that's the only mon on your team capable of running hazards.

Dropping lele is also like a no-go on fairy. Either the team drops azu which is more standard or you drop bulu but dropping bulu weakens matchups like water and ground

fleet spire
solemn zodiac
#

i am fairly sure you can just kill toxapex and muk with knock and play rough respectively

#

at +6

fleet spire
#

What about Venu?

solemn zodiac
#

+6 252 Atk Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Venusaur: 256-302 (70.5 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

#

oh oops whys it no mega

#

+6 252 Atk Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 197-232 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

#

so uhh just find a way to chip it for 40% i guess

fleet spire
#

Ok

solemn zodiac
#

or u can run return apparently thats on the calc set

hot summit
#

can i get advice for this unfinished natdex team for doubles

dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @simple stag, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

low juniper
#

all of these mons except gholdengo are unviable

upbeat beacon
fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

random wadi
atomic salmon
atomic salmon
random wadi
atomic salmon
#

you would make hippo more defensive yes

rugged flower
#

Not sure about landorus therian or hatterene, the other 4 pull their weight for sure but these last two feel a bit like stopgaps for when exeggutor cant setup trickroom.

i feel like i need to be flexible with who i lead with because i always lead with exeggutor alola and rillaboom for the frisk, fakeout, ztrickroom (it gives +1accuracy, and sleep powder) and it works well until they lead with something that has ice type coverage. i might replace hatterene for a fast sweejer like fluttermane. Also my team is very very weak to ice. At first the surprise factor of nobody knowing what exeggutor was doing on my team was enough but after a while it stopped working because now people know what it does.

solemn zodiac
#

oh its nd doubles

#

nvm apparently it doesnt fucking ping

rugged flower
#

Yeah mybad its Nat dex doubles

low juniper
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @simple stag, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

limpid moat
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

grand spear
dry ridgeBOT
river vault
#

how does that team play

#

whats the game plan with it yk

#

i mainly dont get what the standard leads are supposed to be

upbeat beacon
# river vault i mainly dont get what the standard leads are supposed to be

Tyranitar + Dracovish is a very common Sand core, and Iron Crown serves as a Psy Spammer (a mon that uses Expanding Force under Psychic Terrain) that is immune to the damage due to Sandstorm. In Doubles, you don't necessary have a lead that you start off with. You look at the opponent's team and decide which mons are the best to sent out. It takes metagame knowledge to do this, and with time, it'll come naturally to you. I say this, but I would still say Tyranitar + Indeedee-F is my most common lead. Use Follow Me so that Indeedee-F gets forcibly removed via Eject Button, and send out another mon for a better matchup. Some things to note about the team... you could exchange Play Rough for another move and exchange Firium Z for Flyinium Z.

upbeat beacon
# rugged flower https://pokepast.es/a674aaea1d8bd431 how do we feel about this

This isn't a bad start, but I would recommend a couple of changes. First off, you got zero Fire resists in a metagame where Sun is the most dominant archetype aside from the typical Goodstuffs team. Note that Sun's most common core is Charizard-Mega-Y + Flutter Mane (which most likely has Icy Wind and receives a Speed Boost via its ability). In order for Scizor to be effective against Sun, it will require Rain or, like I said, enough teammates that are resistant to Fire type moves. I would also like to add that it is primarily a priority move user so Trick Room is not necessary. Here are two Scizor teams that you can try out: Rain (https://pokepast.es/79a4802cb29bd910) and Goodstuffs (https://pokepast.es/e19a06c3318eba54). If using Scizor wasn't the direction that you wanted to go or if you got further questions, just let me know by pinging me.

pastel sierra
#

I have a team specifically for National dex, should I upload my team here? :0

tepid raft
#

#1059714627384115290

pastel sierra
patent anchor
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @simple stag, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upbeat beacon
# patent anchor https://pokepast.es/5ecd2a3fd4992acc Is this a good team?

This is Zee's old rain team from the samples, but you have made some changes to it. No experienced player will have a problem against Tsareena, so I recommend replacing it with Archaludon instead. Also, you would want to keep Rain Dance on Tornadus in case of weather wars. Chien-Pao is better off having Tera Ghost to be immune to Fake Out and Fighting type moves.

patent anchor
#

Yeahh

#

Thanks for your suggestions

patent anchor
upbeat beacon
fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

runic sage
#

Would also go babiri berry on bulu over life Orb for similar reasons

#

Iron Valiant also gets knock off only scenario I see throat chop being better is hitting z ghold a little bit harder

fleet spire
runic sage
#

Fair enough that's a minor thing though your team is gonna struggle vs steel anyway and knock is more useful generally but valiant can use multiple moves as coverage.

fleet spire
runic sage
#

Yh bulu is not beating scizor but ground has historically has had advantage over fairy this gen and bulu is just insurance vs drill assuming you don't get flinched but screens up also can check it.

#

The team while unorthodox can work some mus will just get harder than others

fleet spire
#

Ok

fleet spire
runic sage
fleet spire
fleet spire
runic sage
#

Unless shifu runs pjab fsr

fleet spire
#

Ok

fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

distant hearth
#

Gliscor and Lando-T overlap quite a bit in roles, the simplest approach to handle this would be replacing Lando-T with Choice Band Dragonite, which serves a similar role of Speed control while also having different edge matchups from Gliscor to come up for the benefit for the team

digital quail
#

https://pokepast.es/08963184be1214c4
Hi, i need help to complete My hyper ofense team, no legendaries or paradox (it's for a Minecraft/cobblemon server, but usefull in showdown), this is the team

solemn zodiac
dry ridgeBOT
#

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: #1373406929317269624 message

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for formats hosted on the Smogon forums, such as VGC and OU.

digital quail
# solemn zodiac !arbitraryformats

Is there any place where I can ask for help with my team? It’s just that I’m kind of new to competitive play and I still don’t know what to choose or what changes to make 😔. Sorry for breaking the rule.

distant hearth
rugged flower
distant hearth
cold heath
#

so i have this team and i want to use rayquaza but it feels all over the place can someone help me

distant hearth
#

!pixelmon

dry ridgeBOT
#

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1373406929317269624

Do not ask for assistance with fangames, Minecraft/Roblox mods, or other such titles. These games/mods have mechanics and available Pokémon which do not match those in the actual Pokémon games or Smogon's formats, and are often played with arbitrary rulesets.

analog juniper
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @simple stag, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

analog juniper
#

I'm thinking I might need another Sand setter, but I'm not sure personally.

rugged flower
rugged flower
analog juniper
upbeat beacon
# analog juniper Been doing pretty well with this Sandstorm team for NatDex Doubles, but does it ...

This is Schister's Sand team (https://pokepast.es/5448c22c0e57bf14) from the Samples except you replaced Marshadow for Glimmora. Schister's team is fine as it is, and he provides additional context should you want to make some changes. Personally, I would use Flutter Mane (with the assistance of Volcarona) over Marshadow to have an easier time in taking out common threats such as Iron Hands and Raging Bolt (should you tera-Water your Dracovish).

upbeat beacon
# rugged flower https://pokepast.es/eba26ee0a9196510 rate my team

I see that you made some changes from last time, but haven't implemented anything that I have recommended. I can also see why you want to use Metagross + Cresselia, but I do not recommend it. On ladder, this stat-copying gimmick may work once against a skilled player, but it is very unlikely to succeed in future games. The teams that I have provided is more flexible against the metagame's main threats. Should you want a different direction or have further questions, feel free to ping me.

rugged flower
#

NGL I haven't had any trouble so far aside from a surprise ice type coverage or unless someone's played against my exeggutor before and can predict z trickroom sleep powder sooooo I disagree with the bot

upbeat beacon
# rugged flower NGL I haven't had any trouble so far aside from a surprise ice type coverage or ...

You probably didnt have any problems on the ladder due to the lack of activity of quality players; they usually focus on Smogon hosted tournaments. To answer your question, click on this link and take a look the "viability rankings." It should give you a better idea: https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/national-dex-doubles.858/.

Smogon Forums
National Dex Doubles

This forum is used to discuss all things National Dex Doubles! Join the National Dex Doubles Discord Server for live discussion!

rugged flower
#

What's up with these bots throwing shade 😭😭😭😭 what did I even dooo

rugged flower
#

MYBAD I THOUGHT U WERE AN ACTUAL BOT 😭😭😭😭

#

I'd have been nicer if I knew u were real sorry fam 💔💔💔

#

U kinda type like chatgpt and ur username threw me off 😭😭

upbeat beacon
rugged flower
#

IM SORRY 😭😭

#

I THOUGHT U WAS AI

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I'll make sure to treat u with human decency sir 💔💔

upbeat beacon
#

okay enough

rugged flower
#

I still feel like an ass 🧍

hazy bridge
dry ridgeBOT
#

Hey @hazy bridge, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen8nationaldexdoubles. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

tired stirrup
#

https://pokepast.es/3056d33494ff7927 thoughts? this is my first nd dou team and i kinda wanna get into the tier, i got inspired to use garg after seeing loglce in fl semis but idk if it's rly viable

dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @simple stag, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upbeat beacon
# tired stirrup https://pokepast.es/3056d33494ff7927 thoughts? this is my first nd dou team and ...

You built well for your first team. I understand why you would in use Garganacl in perhaps SV, but in ND, you are better off using Ferrothorn. They do the same thing except Ferrothorn has less weaknesses and uses Leech Seed which can be seen as Salt Cure + Recover as a single move, leaving you with an extra slot for Protect. Another concern for your team is that you have too many Intimidate users which means you will have a bad matchup against Kingambit. You can lessen this burden by using a regular Landorus over the Therian version or/and using Iron Hands over Incineroar. My last concern for your team is that most of your mons are slow, and even though you have Mega Salamence for Tailwind, most competitively viable teams will have Tailwind of their own, usually with even faster mons. This would be my recommended team: https://pokepast.es/891f289b72293576. You could use Stealth Rock, Substitute, or Taunt over Sandsear Storm should you desire. I understand the team that I have provided seems a lot different from what you originally had, but sometimes, that is how team building works; a few concerns can completely change the "look" of a team. Down below is a direct comparison to show that not much had truly changed: Mence - Setup - Lando - Ghost - Fake Out user - Coverage.

rugged flower
rugged flower
# upbeat beacon You built well for your first team. I understand why you would in use Garganacl ...

Sorry to bother you sir but sun teams arent really a problem unless they have anti sleep stuff, something i do agree with is that my team is inflexible, i always lead with rillaboom and exeggutor, and when people expect ztrickroom and sleep powder it can be a real problem if they have some coverage against my tree. what should i do to give myself some more flexibility? (this guy expected trickroom exeggutor and taunted me)

I only really use the metagross/crecellia core when im against a team that can either wall my ursaluna and (so far) its worked every time i needed it aside from an unlucky crit, i feel like it compliments the more offensive side so long as i repsoition them at the right times, but taking up two slots for a strategy probably further makes my team less flexible. I'd honestly like to replace crecelia for a 2nd lead with fake out but i also really really like having a 2nd backup tr setter

#

i was thinking choice scarf vivillon sleep powder but that seems a bit overkill, i like the idea of being able to shut down a pokemon so i can guarantee a trickroom reset or have ursaluna kill something before it dies due to slowness

#

Scizor i feel doesnt often do much but when he does something it's worth it so i might replace him with viv, but being able to act regardless of trickroom is SOO NICEEEE

upbeat beacon
#

I recommend taking a look at ND Doubles's Viability Rankings (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-doubles-viability-rankings.3757433/) and Bazaar (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-doubles-team-bazaar.3733510/page-2#post-10556040) to have a better understanding of the metagame.

Smogon Forums
Resource - National Dex Doubles Viability Rankings

paragraph and art stolen and adapted from the dou vr thread. art credit: Fangame10

Welcome to the National Dex Doubles OU Viability Ranking project, where we rank the viability of Pokemon in DOU. The floor will always be open to discussion, and after a period of time (roughly every few...

Smogon Forums
Resource - National Dex Doubles Team Bazaar

So you want to start off with Mega Manectric on the field and then volt turn to Incineroar and rack some intimdates up. Chien Pao takes care of most of Manectric's weaknesses and since this Mega Manectric is modest, I decided to use Tailwind with Tornadus. Tornadus has taunt to prevent trick...

tired stirrup
rugged flower
fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @simple stag, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upbeat beacon
#

Regarding the ND Doubles Monotype rate, I've directed the player to seek advise at Monotype OM discord server.

lyric mist
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

low juniper
#

idt u need stealth rock for anything significant so nuzzle is better into taunt fairceus

#

psyshock lunala improves stall mu cuz this might eb weak to stall

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or if u replace lunala with standard chi yu and use earth plate groundceus u would beat stall but its up to u

lyric mist
distant hearth
#

May I ask what niche Garchomp has here over Zygarde or Kyurem-B?

lyric mist
#

notably chomp is faster than yveltal

distant hearth
#

Oh, are you using it out of its historical niche as a wallbreaker that can pressure Defoggers offensively? if so I'd remind that Tera renders that kind of role rather inconsistent, so you'd be better off using the more standard Chi-Yu, which does the same sort of role without relying heavily on type matchups, although this'd also mean having to swap Groundium Z on Arc-Ground with Earth Plate, given that Chi-Yu relies on a Z-Crystal to reliably OHKO Ho-Oh after a Nasty Plot

lyric mist
#

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 20 Def Ho-Oh: 440-525 (106 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

distant hearth
#

That's a 50% chance in disguise as Loaded Dice only ensures 4 hits, not 5, so it's inconsistent
If you want to use Garchomp viably in a Ubers meta I would recommend checking out Gen 4 or Glacemons

lyric mist
#

i mean if they are burning their tera for garchomp thats like

#

good

crimson obsidian
#

realistically they'll burn the zyg tera and just setup

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when one of the nice things about ho in general is that it generally limits zyg to trading with something at most unless you use something like mence

low juniper
#

wouldnt item boosting chomp be better than scale shot actually

#

like lorb

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if chi yu is fast enough on webs do you really need loaded dice scale shot

crimson obsidian
#

chi-yu has good stabs

#

and actually ohkoes neutral targets at +2

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if 330 speed arceus formes were still used then maybe chomps speed tier would matter, but even then they only used that b/c they can't hit 329

grand spear
dry ridgeBOT
#

Hey @grand spear, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexuu. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

grand spear
#

pensive

low juniper
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im not an nduu pro but u have no dark switch in

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smth like banded bisharp could roll u

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idk how u would fix that tho

grand spear
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Should I swap smth with Keld

low juniper
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maybe mienshao over scizor prob

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Or keldeo over washtom and then another defog user over sciz

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Acc wait u have exca nvm

#

Forget the defog bit

grand spear
#

what abt the MLati MU

low juniper
#

Wait cant u just use bisharp instead of sciz

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That improves mlati MU too

grand spear
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that's true

low juniper
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Banded bisharp with sucker knock ihead low kick

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Idk if u need pursuit

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U could drop ihead for pursuit u have 2 poisons and an exca anyways

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altho ngl with another ground weak mon u might want another ground switch in that isnt washtom

grand spear
low juniper
#

moth is fine here

grand spear
#

ough :(

distant hearth
#

TBH the Morning Sun Iron Moth matchup also seems rather shaky, but I'm unsure how that could be handled

grand spear
low juniper
#

U get a knock switch in too

grand spear
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Like this yeah

low juniper
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ya that should be good

grand spear
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Aight thank you

low juniper
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maybe u want ihead bisharp now that u have a dragon but idk

grand spear
#

Didn't know megaless was a thing in this tier

low juniper
#

u might be fine

fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

random wadi
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

trim harness
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @strange knoll, @simple stag, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

simple stag
#

a lot of those pokemon aren't good (noivern sandy shocks glowking) and you have 2 megas

trim harness
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Noivern and Scizor are my favorite mons so i wanted to use them

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Im using galarian slowking because of curious medicine to reset the stat drops from draco

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i want to make a kind of voltswitch esk team can you help

upbeat beacon
#

@trim harness Unfortunately, there are better dragons in this format. Scizor is viable, but you can't use two Megas in one team. For any of us raters to give you a viable team, we will have to make drastic changes to your team. Here are two Scizor teams that you can try out: https://pokepast.es/a952aed97674806a + https://pokepast.es/3c1295be1588b1c5 . If you got further questions, feel free to ping me.

trim harness
#

I kept a similar core but updated the pokemon

upbeat beacon
#

It is as yellowpaint from the doubles channel had said. Noivern is just not that good compared to the high stats mons of this metagame. You definitely do not want Lele as it would make scizor unable to do what it does best.

tired stirrup
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @strange knoll, @simple stag, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upbeat beacon
# tired stirrup https://pokepast.es/d1fb16bdcb240cc3

It's not a bad of start. Walking Wake isn't ideal because the two most used Fairies, Flutter Mane and Tapu Fini, easily beats it. I recommend using Raging Bolt (Life Orb set) instead. I also recommend using a Fire-Type and replacing Kingambit to make the most out of Sun. Some options include Ogerpon-H or Scarfed Chi-Yu.

fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

crimson obsidian
#

Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature

  • Shadow Claw
  • Swords Dance
  • Extreme Speed
  • Double-Edge
#

Would recommend something like this and using dark-z chi-yu like in the same and chosing between one of ky-b or primal groudon

#

generall for sticky web you want smeargle + ekiller or ground + yveltal + chi-yu + zacian-c + flex spot

#

also persih song is needed on smeargle or you get 6-0'd by dragon dance zygarde

#

without psychock lunala will lose to cm arceus formes

fleet spire
crimson obsidian
#

wait what

#

why does this have tauntI need to fix that lmao

fleet spire
crimson obsidian
#

magic coat

fleet spire
#

Is it look better now?

#

Oh I still forgot to make smeargle perish

crimson obsidian
#

Yeah do that and it should be fine

#

The sixth slot can be more or less anything

#

Etern, lunala, and primal kyogre are the most common though

#

Hope you have fun!

fleet spire
#

Ok

buoyant jolt
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

subtle flame
dry ridgeBOT
#

Hey @subtle flame, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

random bluff
dry ridgeBOT
#

Hey @random bluff, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen8nationaldex. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

random bluff
#

wait no theres val

crimson obsidian
#

This should go in NDOU rates btw

lyric mist
summer pebble
#

https://pokepast.es/d1a72d4cf12f8a07 wanted to hop back into playing some ndubers after seeing webs getting suspected. A few things just want to ask is if there are any viable scarfers in the tiers since i used to love spamming scarf korai back when it was legal

dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

low juniper
#

https://pokepast.es/b55b5a3187067d55 ur team is fine for the most part but
defensive ndm kinda sucks so i just made it ddance instead
used a more phys def pdon spread to improve zacc MU just a bit more
defensive darkceus is too passive so i switched it to calm mind
made landoT defog since scarf lando is best at removing things such as sticky web against HO
replaced hooh with marshadow since u dont rlly need hooh for anything apart from 2nd defog + slightly better ekiller MU + priority is nice

#

altho the last slot is kinda free anyways u could prob go eternatus there too

#

or maybe even deoA

summer pebble
#

thx

#

also are there any suggestions on how to break stall with this team?

#

before i would try to spam knock with ndm and try to get hazards up to make progress

low juniper
#

U could try photon NDM instead of stone edge since that beats dondozo

#

Against stall u always tera poison darkceus ASAP to prevent eternatus from being annoying

calm sand
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

gloomy marten
#

Okay, so my brief is this looks HO without going full HO normal.

#

As Blissey and P2 stick out like sore thumbs here.

#

If you didn't want to go full HO and instead wanted to make it more of a balance team:

  • Make Staraptor bulky Defog (Impish 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe with Brave Bird, U-turn/Close Combat, Defog, and Roost)
  • Run Discharge > Toxic on P2 as that makes it a far more threatening mon overall.
  • Drop Aromatherapy for Stealth Rock and run Bold 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD on Blissey.
  • I would also probably drop Ursaluna for a special breaker. Either Zoroark-H with a Nasty Plot set (Nasty Plot Shadow Ball, Flamethrower, Focusblast with Ghostium-Z) or Terapagos with Choice Specs (Tera starstorm, flamethrower, Ice Beam, Earth Power)
random wadi
gloomy marten
#

I feel like if you're gonna fit mega lade on this, its gonna be over boulder.

#

But I'll leave that upto the proper NDM heads.

random wadi
grand spear
low ruin
atomic salmon
#

fits in this comp well and you have an offensive fairy psychic mon in lele thats better compression, especially with psychic terrain support. You also have compression in specs latios with defog support if your really afraid of hazards on your side

#

overall solid team and well done

grand spear
#

and fire, weirdly enough. Pex kinda gets overloaded against it

sweet fiber
#

who can rate my nat dex uber team

distant hearth
# sweet fiber

I'm afraid that rain structures are unviable in ND Ubers as they are countered by Primal Kyogre and especially Primal Groudon, more specifically I'll just reiterate the following:

While Drizzle may seem strong due to the presence of Pokémon such as Iron Bundle, Dracovish, and Kyogre, Desolate Land replacing rain and only being replaceable by Primordial Sea, which itself leaves when Primal Kyogre switches out, makes rain and several Pokémon that could take advantage of it such as the previously mentioned examples completely unviable. Walking Wake deserves a special mention, as contrary to what one would normally think, Protosynthesis does not activate under Desolate Land and Hydro Steam is fully blocked by it as well, so it's just entirely outclassed by Palkia-O.

In terms of viable Water-types, Primal Kyogre applies offensive pressure, as it can override Primal Groudon's ability with its own, but Primal Groudon can also do the same depending on whichever's ability activates last; as a result, matchups often depend on which Pokémon switches in last, though Primal Groudon has the advantage of being able to switch into Primal Kyogre's Water-type STAB moves.

Other options for Water-types include Palkia-O, Arceus-Water, and, in more niche terms, Alomomola and Dondozo. Palkia-O has Dragon STAB to eventually break past Primal Groudon, especially given its lack of reliable recovery; Arceus-Water instead focuses on the defensive traits of the typing and either relies on its teammates to cover Primal Groudon for it or carries moves such as Toxic and Earth Power for it; Dondozo acts as a stall option to wall several threats, including some variants of Primal Groudon; and Alomomola can come into most sets of Primal Groudon and cripple it with Toxic, although it's unable to do much else out of its passivity and reliance of niche in the metagame as a cleric with Wish + Flip Turn.

#

I could go over Dracovish's Speed tier being so terrible to the point that nearly every offensive Pokemon will outspeed and OHKO it, Zacian-C having no reason to use Sacred Sword over Close Combat and needing Wild Charge over one of its STABs as to not be Ho-Oh bait, Tailwind being unviable in Singles out of the limited turn count and momentum liability required to even use it properly over just Dragon Dance in M-Salamence, Defog M-Salamence and Kingambit being rather situational if viable and demanding teams built around them, and other flaws that'd make this require the team to be rebuilt, but with rain being a lost cause these explanations should suffice. I would recommend to just grab a sample team so that you may familiarize yourself better with the metagame

low ruin
# grand spear Fairy. I only recently realized that I can't really beat IVal with screens up

Volcanion might be a nice deviation water is pretty hard to exactly point fingers and deviations kinda just run their own things aswell- if ur scarf that zones out a good bit of typings and gyar can maybe just be like taunt dd maybe- hinting maybe an empoleon drop but it can also do like av, boots , if you run red card on pex you could explore z on this or like taunt + z (fire spin does pretty good) ; wisp+taunt is nice vs ting lu. If you have having issues with meow volcanion can run custap and check it in the “middle” of a battle ; pretty much during scripted turns. Washtom is going to have passivity issues individually vs those those by the nature of the set but you can either change the rotom based on a volcanion and run like defensive split | rindo berry . You could also just consider running toxic spikes pex sometimes but despite this even having a pex/ empo it’s gonna be annoying vs buku koko lele setting terrain and more

#

The same with exchanging resources the flip empoleon is here to slow pivot in as we have scarf tom but gastrodon I can comfortably say is pretty awkward add a swampert with flip turn and kinda tweak the structure. Water has a lot of middle ground but fairy is a pretty annoying mu even vs potential waters - outside of this you can’t change too much as this leaves you more kyurem weak but also

#

Raging bolt is well inside the tier so it’s also evaluating realistic matchups - if you ask me I’m probably deviating this structure even in a more hyper realistic way because specs bolt / kyu - idk I just slapped av king on this to dtail all those guys out. So there will be gray areas - wellspring also feels good into fairy but the global note of fairy and fire def volcanion - it really depends on temper flare gyar tho it makes me think of skarmory but then I’m thinking taunt is better for some rzn for whirl but you’d need to like burn it but taunt is still fine if they click it ig and luckily celes corvi is valid

calm sand
#

hey @low ruin Ive been experimenting around and Id like to incorporate porygon z into my team, but id also like to focus on using megas like pidgeot, is there any item other than normalium Z that can work well?

#

like maybe life orb or choice specs?

low ruin
#

Porygon z is usually a slot that’s should be interchanged with zoro-h because I zone it out as tera burn tbh - charmflash or someone brought a hyper offensive normal but it was specs in ss mono and it was still a one time thing - goodra h is just beyond scary to a point where you really need types and actual matchups that you need to realistically pan pz out against - alongside with comparing them alongside other roles at bets specs but you will go like 2-98 because it’s not consistent

#

Normal has a lot of miraculous normal Pokemon so you need to pair things with standard compositions and make them synergize - it’s normal but the play style and the name normal isn’t a lie - I think at work plot but then it’s like who’s you’re other z

#

But also z is not the fundamental of teambuilding here

#

It’s about creating consistent compositions ; those things will fall in place but first we need a good structure

calm sand
low ruin
#

Having realistic matchups against actual types that are being ran should be the approach so porygon z can burn with defensive evs ghost can nukes psychic in certain chokepoints and electric can zone para and be good in chokepoints vs electric poison flying

#

There’s just everything in the dex and I just can’t imagine me actually loading a lot of things I run with the dex adjustments in comparison to ndm when it was a hard time learning myself that teams in sm shouldn’t have just been “trying” to force a z to work also for example - the same here ; it should just be looking at matchups you wanna win and I think it’s just important to compare data ; nothing wrong with cheffing up but recognizing the archetype also in bully offense , stall, ho, offensive, hybrid:alternative styles like weather/trick room whatever it may be - THEN ALSO AN IMPORTANT STEP -> making it perform up to par just like the sample teams or enough to mimick the same fundamentals still - I also think mega pidgeot is really shiest someone actually used pz and mega pidgeot and whooped me we are 1-1 in room tours now

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Goat is default07 Ubers main lol

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Off topic I think you can try those two for sure you just won’t be able to have everything dual bird is nice and they used sub bird sometimes (default) I liked using it starting off , cg sm some even had hp ground to poke Heatran but with the adjustments to mons going around it’s not really used - Luna is still really good regardless

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Luna PZ dual bird bliss/chansey zoro-h if tera electric then have gknot zoro? Or drop zoro add conversion ghost and have a 6th

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Pretty exponential tbh

calm sand
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this is allota terminology im learning so uhhh gimmie 1 sec to take this all in ;v;

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ok finished notes i think, i think ive got it......maybe o_o

sweet fiber
distant hearth
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I'm afraid that this is just a worse version of a Trick Room team, and that's already quite matchup fishy as is

sweet fiber
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yhen can u rebuilt it bro

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just lemme run dracovish pls

distant hearth
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You may want to go to ND Ubers UU or ND Doubles OU if you want to use Dracovish viably

ivory flicker
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

random wadi
low ruin
random wadi
distant hearth
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Sap Sipper is relevant as it blocks Leech Seed from Ferrothorn and Celesteela, as well as Strength Sap more situationally

atomic salmon
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yeah its really nice for the mirror, forcing progress to an extent but still annoying as the lack of flamethrower on hoodra.

low ruin
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True

atomic salmon
# random wadi https://pokepast.es/3013f70e3adb6b55

i think the comp is fine im not a huge fan or scarf ghold but if not running like both spikes / stealth rock then your default hazard should be stealth rock as that just remotely hit everything and now have a way to pressure zard y better, not allowing it to have safe swap ins

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u need like stone edge over like knock on treads to offensively pressure zard y, hoodra can knock shit pretty fine for the comp and is more beneficial here as like your counterplay to zard is like coping with heatran + hoodra that gets worn down via focus blast and in some instances scorching sands which can just have a chance to burn hoodra which becomes pretty dire af.

random wadi
low ruin
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I agree with something over scarf gholdengo like boomp ya

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U can realistically have a better mirror steel mu with z and pop kommo

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Or twave I was typing for a dark ho; gooey came to mind in trading vs urshifu water or like mega gallade then u can just drop scarf , (main things I’d use scarf for) then have treads scarf the analysis suggests scarf treads anyways

low ruin
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Also Kingambit is banned

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Leech makes u a lot let passive on turns I think the abilities (gooey sipper) aren’t directly what u want but it (sipper) still compliments and limits gameplay and is complementary of such structures known for stretching out turns with obnoxious mons in ferro ghold flying/steel whatever it may be - maybe no one has clicked leech enough into certain chokepoints I need to play more mirrors now☠️

sweet fiber
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trick room dracovish

Screenshot_2025-12-12_at_07.17.05.png
sweet fiber
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but 2 archetypes will get messy

distant hearth
# sweet fiber trick room dracovish

Yeah, as said previously I'm afraid that ND Ubers isn't the tier to be using rain, let alone Dracovish, additionally this fails to capilatize on the niche Trick Room teams in the tier have of counterteaming standard hyper offense structures, more specifically the lack of Hatterene as an anti-lead means that setters like Smeargle, Deoxys-S, and Glimmora can quickly wear down your team, Slowbro's lack of special bulk also turns it into a terrible setter as it's rather easy to overwhelm on that defensive side by the myriad of wallbreakers like Lunala, Chi-Yu, Yveltal, and Primal Kyogre, and this team having no checks to Primal Groudon outside of Primal Kyogre is quite bad news as then it'll always KO something whenever it comes in (by forcing a switch to POgre or just KOing what's in front of it), and finally Kingambit is unviable in TR structures as it's outclassed by Melmetal. Zacian-C also seems out of place, typically the Speed control when having to play without TR up is Arceus, which works as Extreme Speed's priority enables it to normally go first regardless of TR. Overall this team still has the glaring flaws of rain and I'd recommend to just grab a sample team. TR teams nowadays are just Hatterene + Cresselia + Calyrex-I + Arceus + Primal Groudon + Primal Kyogre or Melmetal, and have minimal flexibility out of having little else to capitalize on as far its role in the tier goes as explained before

zealous osprey
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

zealous osprey
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I built this team and had very good results with it, and I was thinking about using it in the tournament I’m going to participate in. However, I think I’ll need to make some changes, because Mega Mewtwo Y can 2HKO almost everything, and the team doesn’t have good Speed. I need advice on which Pokémon I should replace. Can you help me?

solemn zodiac
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This is literally just an NDOU team

zealous osprey
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All these pokemon is allowed

solemn zodiac
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what kinda format is this

zealous osprey
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Yeah but i relly like mega pinsir and i think he have good vhances in this tornument

zealous osprey
solemn zodiac
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why are only these mons allowed

zealous osprey
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Yes

solemn zodiac
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!arbitraryformats

dry ridgeBOT
#

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: #1373406929317269624 message

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for formats hosted on the Smogon forums, such as VGC and OU.

zealous osprey
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Ok

zealous osprey
solemn zodiac
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the advice would be to use the ubers and mega gengar since they are allowed

zealous osprey
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Ok i try build one team with mega gengar

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But you think pinsir is good or no?

solemn zodiac
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we arent going to help you with the team

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its not a smogon format so we dont know the meta

zealous osprey
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Ok

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Mega mewtho and marshadow is very used

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But ok ty i try mega gengar

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But you think mega pinsir is good for that or no?

random wadi
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

low juniper
random wadi
lyric mist
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And chose two bad teras

grand spear
lyric mist
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How did u end up with the exact same order of pokemon

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And that giratina set isn't on the smogon dex

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Neither is the Arceus set

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Oh wait I'm fucking blind

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Lmao

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I did it again

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I'm looking at the sample lmao

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Kms

random wadi
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literally just switched refresh here with earth power

image.png
lyric mist
random wadi
lyric mist
random wadi
lyric mist
random wadi
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doesn't it feel like a tera hog? without tera it gets walled by grouden

lyric mist
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Well groudon survives +3 tera fight cc after 1 spike anyways

random wadi
random wadi
lyric mist
random wadi
solemn zodiac
lyric mist
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the 140+ one

solemn zodiac
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ye

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ones that run less bulk will die

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oh the 68+def one also lives after rocks if u havent reverted before switching in

random wadi
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

random wadi
grand spear
grand spear
random wadi
rocky granite
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

distant hearth
#

Oh, and you'll want Fire Blast over Fthrower on Etern, as to actually OHKO Zacian-C with it without burning the Tera slot

grand spear
fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

lyric mist
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Why does gastro have yache

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Its not weak to ice

rocky granite
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the nefarious freeze dry

rocky granite
atomic salmon
# fleet spire https://pokepast.es/c640684fd807645c

honestly team looks fine i would just take off yache for boots and like beam over mirror coat. as far as kyurem concerns you have 3 mons that can offensively pressure it to the point its not having no type of fun, SD Shifu / Scarf fini / Specs Gren all just pressure it out effectively. i would also just remove t spikes on pex for poison jab so your not "passive" against bulu.

#

other than that looks fine for rainless

fleet spire
real granite
dry ridgeBOT
#

Hey @real granite, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexdoublesubers. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

real granite
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ah

crimson obsidian
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@upbeat beacon

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Pretty sure pretty much everyone that plays Nd doubles plays doubles Ubers as well

dry ridgeBOT
crimson obsidian
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There is a channel in the Nd doubles cord for doubles ubers

real granite
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oh thanks

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oh but that server is ou

crimson obsidian
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It covers all Nd doubles formats

real granite
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oh ok thanks

upbeat beacon
real granite
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I just ran it in Ubers though?

random wadi
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

low ruin
#

alt-m is banned

atomic salmon
random wadi
atomic salmon
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yeah, you also would want like sd cc t punch ice punch on this valiant for better synergy with koko. with electrium z.

random wadi
atomic salmon
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nah normally u just utilize 4a on koko builds normally, i would replace roost with g knot

fleet spire
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

worthy fjord
# fleet spire https://pokepast.es/c991fa6e0134af26 I see no sample team that build around doub...

In paper it feels ok but meow is concerned about the in practice part

For one, 2 steel birds with zard feels a bit wrong since 2 steel birds take increased damage in sun when your fire resist doesnt have recovery is an interesting choice.

I think double steel birds fits better with M.Aero, as the 2 steel birds dont really solve lots of zards problems (corv pivots are nice tho, but I feel like Celes could be a more useful mon with pivoting instead)

fleet spire
random wadi
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

low ruin
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I know for sure you get way more value out of this optimizing the spa here and letting the av just “do its thing” ; also dual flyings and a water looks super weak into electric here on paper

IMG_0093.png
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Atp I also think the av just needs a lot way more super than just cc cinderace too

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It’s also just really evaluating what this is beating ; I honestly don’t think cerulefge should just be thrown on any comp here in ndm either; the balloon structures really highlights how there was a trend in ss monotype running like excessive balloons, this same trend was brought out for a SV Hyper Offensive poison team. Both types aiming to have some sort of “resilience” against grounds but rn we are also 6-0d by mega diancie so azumarill doesn’t even have to come out

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Gyro ball / having a heatran also if you do have ballooners here is hp ice for scale chomper , (fire is the matchup u can realistically win) , A scarfer that can just creep Mega Diancie would be nice alternatively but fire has the tools to play so aggressively

random wadi
random wadi
dry ridgeBOT
#

Hey @random wadi, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexuu. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

ebon crane
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Hi is this the best place to put my NatDex ZA teams?

viral mountain
dry ridgeBOT
#

Hey @viral mountain, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexdoublesubers. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

distant hearth
ebon crane
visual crow
# random wadi https://pokepast.es/eb9e91349519ac38

BU Okidogi just kind of wins on preview v this icl, I'd make mega latias aura + psychic/psyshock over boltbeam which is generally a more effective set here since boltbeam is never beating aegi anyways and is just going to get trapped by ttar. it also gives you a way to actually threaten mega venu without dedicating to CM, and mvenu just otherwise walls your whole team, as well as bulky NP pecha who ngl kind of wins on preview otherwise. replace PSplit on washtom with hydro, there's no reason to ever drop hydro and you need wisp so that SD aegi doesn't steamroll, so psplit gotta go.

ebon crane
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https://pokepast.es/6e727f02158e4cd6
Hi i built this team around mega absol Z but i have no idea what to put over gallade. it was originally lead meowstic but i found that i was getting no use from it bc i have glim. What would be some good suggestions as a replacement or should i go back to meowstick and replace glim?

dry ridgeBOT
#

Hey @ebon crane, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9legendszaou team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1060682530094862477 instead.

ebon crane
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am i not in the other chat or am i tripping?

distant hearth
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No, this is the NDOT thread (ZAOU is not a NDOT, but a Pet Mod, and thus would go in Other as previously said)

ebon crane
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ah okay my b

pale sorrel
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https://pokepast.es/d1fc8f69f282885b found out that natdex double ubers is up n running again so i decided to make a lil team. Liligant kinda seems to be the weakest link rn, what should i change her to?

dry ridgeBOT
#

Hey @pale sorrel, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexdoublesubers. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

random wadi
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

random wadi
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @low ruin, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

cold heath
#

Doing a dat dex doubles with no ledgands i need 1 pomemon and I dont want to swap anything else I played a few rounds and Goodra is my only heavy hitter what should I add
https://pokepast.es/1e0f075dbf080cd6

dry ridgeBOT
#

Hey @cold heath, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexdoublesubers. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

crimson obsidian
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you would have better luck in this discord

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but also this is not a doubles ubers team

crude bloom
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ok so i was tinkering around with a team idea i had, its in NatDex AG. what do yall think of this team? Is there any way to improve on it? advice and such is greatly appreciated

image.png
solemn zodiac
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minus 1 mon

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ok 2 actually