NatDex Other Tiers

[kind hedge]

yeah i whipped this team up in like 10 minutes yesterday
i usually play meme teams in this format and decided to finally give a proper team a shot

[solemn zodiac]

i recommend trying out a sample team first

[distant hearth]

The team has a good start by using the standard GHAZ core, but as said previously the sets are rather suboptimal
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-sample-teams-updated-30-03-2025.3752303/
After you familiarize yourself with an already well-tested sample team for the metagame, you can try diverging on what you may prefer for the remaining team slots, or maybe even go into something wilder if you know what you're doing, the VR rankings thread and the SmogDex lay out a good outline on what to look for

[kind hedge]

ok thank you guys

[crimson obsidian]

Smogdex is undergoing updates ATM so some stuff might be slightly outdated (Arceus ev spreads are the main thing that come to mind - you want to hit 330 speed generally)

[buoyant jolt]

https://pokepast.es/6fe707913a0151f1

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[mild halo]

https://pokepast.es/4c9a7331008151d7

[strange stone]

Lowkey looks like a gen 6/7 ou team

With the exception of garagnacal

[buoyant jolt]

hows tha helpful? :c

[simple tinsel]

Rate my national dex monotype team. An example of a game with it is here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexmonotype-2352015009

https://pokepast.es/198894554dd46d15

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic salmon]

looks pretty good, lack of hazard removal is scary tho, i would add in a rotom over raging bolt or, if you want to keep bolt i would just put rapid spin on regieleki over thunderwave. I would also just make Raging Bolt Calm mind + 3 attacks with dragon z as the item.
Raging Bolt @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
IVs: 20 Atk
Modest Nature

• Calm Mind
• Thunderbolt
• Draco Meteor
• Thunderclap
  Would use this with this team. speed allows for it to outspeed jolly ursaluna. rest is just to maximize its bulk + dmg output. Consider Grass knot maybe?? on koko. really nice against mega pert.

other than that well done

[buoyant jolt]

https://pokepast.es/a3661b1716531516 insta-dies to Keldeo what do I do

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sonic summit]

trade out clef for amoonguss or like apple and its probably fine

[buoyant jolt]

ty

[unreal lotus]

https://pokepast.es/0741879ebc254fb3 rate my team, NatDex Ubers technically but its a monotype team for a cobblemon server im on. struggles against sun so any tips are appreciated

[solemn zodiac]

!pixelmon

[dry ridge]

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1030567099703242903

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for formats hosted on the Smogon forums, such as VGC and OU.

Additionally, do not ask for assistance with fangames, Minecraft/Roblox mods, or other such titles. These games/mods have mechanics and available Pokémon which do not match those in the actual Pokémon games or Smogon's formats, and are often played with arbitrary rulesets.

[drowsy raptor]

https://pokepast.es/d6ae9dfe1ab0229b . What 3 other mons would go well with this core? Nat dex uu

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[uncut gulch]

flying mono https://pokepast.es/3f6eeb4851ccca1d i recently swapped tornadus out for thundurus what yall think

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[worthy fjord]

It looks "fine"

No dragon move dnite feels sus tho, you already have g.zap for flying stab anyway so you dont really need dual wing beat

Dd is better than hone claws on M.Aero to prevent scarf guys from revenge killing the aero

This team has no outs at all vs steel tho, it feels like you just straight up lose. You can use fire eq ddnite (not that great since skarm gets funny), consider focus blast on Thund (cuts its usefulness in Fly or Water mu), or consider someone else (m.zard over m.aero or NP torn over Dnite)

[uncut gulch]

i put hone on it over dd cuz i almost always miss stone edge for some reason but i think ill probably just swap it for mega zard

dont know why i never had him to begin with

thanks

[sonic summit]

i rated in dms

[zenith mica]

https://pokepast.es/1edae79f0eb08af5

Had some success with this in gen7 Ubers with some mild differences

[crimson obsidian]

https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059901370477576272 but there is no way this is viable there

[river vault]

https://pokepast.es/bf2efc7951298182
gen 9 natdex doubles - 1.5k, someone help I just got torn to pieces by a spore amoongus what do i do

little shit just put all 3 of my sweepers to sleep >:[

[strange stone]

It's not a bad gen 7 Uber team

It's pretty alright

[crimson obsidian]

Given the sashshadow and scarf ogre I am going to doubt that

[strange stone]

Oh yea I just noticed

Yea it's not viable

Mons themselves are pretty solid tho

Just change sets

And maybe replace deoxys speed

[light forge]

this national dex doubles team is so fun, please rate

its heavy fire type

[sonic sleet]

This probably just leans way too hard on sun and forgoes too much defensive utility

U notably have no rain or sand answers

[civic swan]

im just a bit curious but is there any extra tweaks i should make to this team? (NDMono)
https://pokepast.es/596cb9704c791ea8

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[civic swan]

ik ive already asked before at some point but i wanna know just in case ill need it

[atomic salmon]

honestly looks solid for a rainless build, ik the cat help u b4. i would just ladder with it now and see how it goes.

well done

it honestly will just come down to changing items around

[grand oak]

https://pokepast.es/ac31175ff10d60b2
Can someone rate my team pls

Idk if it's bad but it's not taking me beyond one specific point 😭

[solemn zodiac]

every set here is extremely unoptimal except the hooh who is only mildy unoptimal (fix evs)

magearna is also unviable

and some of these do not fit on the same structure

eg. mence only fitting on HO while hooh is more of a balance/BO mon

[grand oak]

Yeah

Im trying HO

But I need a defog user

[solemn zodiac]

marshadow also doesn't fit on HO

and again a lot of sets are really suboptimal

[grand oak]

I think Kyogre is useless rn

[solemn zodiac]

i would take a look at the sample teams

[dry ridge]

National Dex Ubers (Gen 9)

• Sample Teams
• Teambuilding Compendium
• Speed Tiers
• Good Cores
• Viability Rankings
• C&C Forum

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[solemn zodiac]

the HOs in here are as optimized as they can get

[crimson obsidian]

As rightclicker said this team is considered unviable and there are significant issues with every single set. I'd heavily suggest using a sample until you are a bit more familiar with the tier. The Ho-Oh set the cloest thing but still runs a different EV spread and Tera Ground if using Earthquake. HO in general doesn't run hazard control as it relies on offensive pressure to maintain its entry hazards, which this team is also lacking. Focus Sash Marshadow is completely unviable and Marshadow itself is very rare on HO - usually being a Bulk Up Life Orb set. Bob and I wrote an article last year that touches on this topic. While some of the recommended sets are outdated, the explanations for why these sets are bad is still the same. https://www.smogon.com/articles/natdex-ubers-use-dont

[subtle mirage]

team rate? NatDex Ubers "So anyway I started blasting"

[pallid oriole]

first of all, you usually want some sort of hazard setter on hyper offense

[subtle mirage]

agreed but there is a reason why its called "So Anyway I Started Blasting"

I just went for absolute full blast with mons that are decent against some meta

anyway suggestions for mon substitutions?

[crimson obsidian]

I'd highly suggest taking a glance at the viability rankings as while Mega Blaziken and Skymin may have some upsides, their flaws are drastic enough that they are not considered viable. This is partially due to them being outclassed and also due to them being poor in the roles they are attempting. I'll be busy for a little bit, but it seems like you're interested in building around Kyruem-B and that is something I can help you with when I'm free if I have energy before I crash or tomorrow as it is already quite late.

[subtle mirage]

Agreed but... I actually will say they are quite important. only mega blaziken can kill zacian on my team and only shaymin can kill groudon with a 60% flinch and not missing air slash. and if I need to I can just click seed flare for dmg. not to mention mega blaziken can trip so many people up as people who use ho-oh get one shot by stone edge which I use

im very unconventional

but I will definitely still look

i've been thinking about eternatus and its sets

[pallid oriole]

skymin isnt terrible however it is VERY unreliable

i dont recommend it at all really but if you really wanted to you could use it

[subtle mirage]

agreed. but it always seems to find some value, even if its tiny, in every battle. earth power and tera ice for zrgarde kills aren't bad

[subtle mirage]

I just dont know what would be my substitute for killing primal groudon

not to mention it sweeps marshadow

which is actually a massive issue with spectral theif

[pallid oriole]

arceus ground is a strong option

[subtle mirage]

ok

special for physical though?

im pretty seceptable to burn

[pallid oriole]

ususally phisical, but special is probably usable id say

[solemn zodiac]

you can use primal groudon + webs support who can be all of this while additionally giving you an offensive pogre check

[subtle mirage]

understood

[subtle mirage]

also let me surprise you with the fact that I somehow used this team to reach top 100. no idea how. absolutely bonkers but I did. currently 1625 and currently around 90th~. I dont want to touch it XD

[subtle mirage]

who would be the substitute?

[solemn zodiac]

well

the 2 mons you mentioned because pdon can do all you want them to do in 1 singular slot

the other slot would be a webs setter

also make marshadow bulk up

[subtle mirage]

why so?

[solemn zodiac]

doesn't fit on HO otherwise

[subtle mirage]

really!? but the set it meant for all out offense

isn't called all out attacker or smthg?

[solemn zodiac]

yeah but thats a set meant more for balance teams

[subtle mirage]

I see

[solemn zodiac]

bulk up marshadow is better on offense because you can potentially get ohkos

[subtle mirage]

alright

[solemn zodiac]

you get all the 2hkos with band/aoa which is good on balance but its a momentum sink here

[subtle mirage]

understood

so swap out MBlaze and Skymin for PrimDon?

rocks yes? and find a web setter?

[solemn zodiac]

pdon can be rocks eruption or something

or double dance

[subtle mirage]

probs double dance

but eruption could be a play

to think I made it to top 100 with such a stupid team XD especially with all the improvements and suggestions you guys made. thanks

I might be weird and not do double dance. only rock polish to have a slot for rocks

[hazy remnant]

i should mention the nduber ladder shouldn’t really be used to testify whether a team is good or not since it’s very

scuffed, lack of a better term

you could easily reach top 100 with subpar mons and strategies

hell, even top 50 could be done

[subtle mirage]

oh I know. i know how scuffed it can be having climbed all the way up here. im calling my own team atrocious.

im just surprised that I actually did managed to make it

it was sort of my own achievement for saying "hey maybe you aren't that bad at this, you might actually be pretty decent"

[fallen wolf]

please rate : )

[tepid raft]

What tier is this team for?

[fallen wolf]

natdex ubers

[fallen wolf]

is that what u meant??

[tepid raft]

Yeah it is, I'm just asking so that when a more experienced player sees this, theyll know what tier it's for

[fallen wolf]

aaaa i see, okie

[tepid raft]

But I'm pretty sure most of those mons are unviable, so i recommend using a sample team for a while, until you understand the tier a little better

And maybe try looking at the viability rankings if you insist on building a team yourself

[subtle mirage]

just saying this mf so har dtrolling you

I know him

this a troll team

calls it his "icon team"

[fallen wolf]

i still use it in nd ubers😑

[subtle mirage]

true

[hazy remnant]

this team is unviable, every mon (except arc and mmy) here is just not good in ndubers, and even the sets for mmy and arc are odd (you need nasty plot on mmy + normalceus runs life orb / silk scarf)

i would recommend just looking at sample teams to try and get a grasp of what teams work and how they do so

[hazy remnant]

yeah p much

[fallen wolf]

thanks🤗

[solemn zodiac]

pretty cooperative people today damn i fully expected you to start calling em slurs

[crimson obsidian]

Give me a few mins and I'll get back to this

[crimson obsidian]

Yeah so the best place to start given you're interested in Ky-B is to look at what your typical HO structure has

suicide lead + arceus forme + lo yveltal to maintain hazards (taunt instead of defog)

[fallen wolf]

another strange team but please rate for ND Ubers

[crimson obsidian]

Please stop posting troll teams. This is the second time you've done this in the past couple of days. It is a waste of our time and yours. Surely you have better things to do

[fallen wolf]

i mean ive faced good teams with this one and won before ( @subtle mirage cough, cough)

[subtle mirage]

cant deny, he did, he did. weird shit

[fallen wolf]

i just dont like using meta as I wanna find my own 'good team' without having to rely on common strats

[crimson obsidian]

There is not a single viable pokemon on this team.

You're free to use whatever you'd like, but if you want feedback you have to use viable pokemon.

[fallen wolf]

awww okay

is snealer still viable (not my one lol)

[dry ridge]

National Dex Ubers (Gen 9)

• Sample Teams
• Teambuilding Compendium
• Speed Tiers
• Good Cores
• Viability Rankings
• C&C Forum
• Discord

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[fallen wolf]

oh thx

[low juniper]

No

Because it's easily shut down by giratinaO hooh and eternatus

[fallen wolf]

aaaa i see

[low juniper]

And requires too much support compared to marshadow or pheormosa

[fallen wolf]

Please rate, @subtle mirage no looking i wanna use this team on u tomorrow

i used viable pokemon this time

i changed it a bit, NDUbers

[solemn zodiac]

ok so this is a pretty awkward structure

you have the HO lorb yveltal and the webs lead

and the pdon

but then you have a balance core

you need to pick a direction do you wanna build balance or HO

[subtle mirage]

thanks for the info ping, easier time planning how to face that team tomorrow

hes going against my ass

[solemn zodiac]

💔

[fallen wolf]

Thank you @solemn zodiac , sorry for the late response I had alr hopped off lol

[river vault]

any current gen natdex doublers with tailroom advice cause idk how to advance this team, its my first time doing tailroom 😭
https://pokepast.es/e2c3e5b90b179afb

[sonic sleet]

Neither your tailwind nor your trick room modes are super solid, you have a few good mons though, ill look over this in more detail later

[river vault]

i changed whimsicott's energy ball for taunt btw

cause i lost to a guy running ting lu hazards + whirlwind

[river vault]

but ty much appreciated

[low juniper]

Prankster doesn't work on dark types

[river vault]

tru

he used tera ghost

😝

good point tho tbf

i forgot abt that

[olive salmon]

this the worst team ive ever seen in my life ever in my life ever

[wraith crag]

https://pokepast.es/e3ff9daedeefc09b

[pallid oriole]

what tier

also fyi im pretty sure kings rock doesnt work on moves that can already flinch

[hazy remnant]

isn’t it banned in most tiers anyways

[tepid raft]

Natdex doubles
https://pokepast.es/34d247a795ea02d6

I have a hard time dealing with Gholdengo and Heatran

[sonic sleet]

use either ursaluna forme instead of smeargle

[buoyant jolt]

https://pokepast.es/4a53cc541bac4ee3 I couldnt fit knock or gking here 😭

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic salmon]

imo you would have to give up sneasler for gking / amuk or take off leech seed on m venu for knock off

if were building a team around salaze

salazzle*

Nah you have like 0 things to swap into any psychic moves, this team just dies out to to m gallade / latis overall.

[buoyant jolt]

not using a fighter on poison is uh

[atomic salmon]

its nothing

especially since ur running salazzle + geezing + nidoking to deal with common threats in steel / dragon / dark, etc.

[buoyant jolt]

oh I forgot to put a Muk

😭

[atomic salmon]

exactly lol

[buoyant jolt]

thats on me for speed building :c

uhhh

ig I can start from scratch

[atomic salmon]

so to compensate that you wou have to do like amuk + crobat over sneasler geezing or like what you said, start from scratch

or this might be weird but i have done this in the past.

(recent as well)

drop pex for z haze a muk

[atomic salmon]

me and mat been running z haze amuk, to stop like psychic cheese in general, which is pretty funny to see when its used

[atomic salmon]

https://pokepast.es/4522b0c06c5ebedd this is something i came up with @buoyant jolt , still keeping salazzle since i assume thats the mon u was building around. i opted to go band over scarf with gunkshot to just OHKO mega gallade. 3A M Venu because i dont like being walled by balloon heatran speed evs i just mane 211 to creep the standard defensive archaludon. and everything else is pretty standard. Tweak to your liking. happy gaming!

[buoyant jolt]

we hae no speed control

[atomic salmon]

its poison

a fat comp

[buoyant jolt]

they still run scarf sneasleer tbf

[atomic salmon]

https://pokepast.es/56d6686e3014501e

the sample doesnt even run it

[buoyant jolt]

tnf mat is pretty bold as a builder + on superthicc poisons u can justify

[atomic salmon]

https://pokepast.es/baa6e7906d96f8c5

this also

doesnt

[atomic salmon]

theres no justifying, if u feel u will be overwhelm by speed by all means slap a scarf on sneasler

as i said tweak to ur liking fam

[buoyant jolt]

ill try it as like

[atomic salmon]

❤️

[buoyant jolt]

those 2 samples are also

a bit thiccer than our team is

[atomic salmon]

its more so piloting good

and ur trying to utilize

salazzle

so idk

but the gameplan is just to corossion spam + hit like truck via band sneasler

pivot around venu geezing mu

muk

wear em down

win the game

😄

[buoyant jolt]

@ treads

I go venu right

[atomic salmon]

yeah

[buoyant jolt]

lele I shld be fine vs with this muk set

gliscor we r fine

[atomic salmon]

yeah. honestly its kinda hard to like try a fit a more key mon when you want salazzle lol

[buoyant jolt]

ghold we may need to do a dance around but

lazzle muk

[atomic salmon]

uhh ur general fine with salazzle muk and even band sneasler + nido to an extent

[buoyant jolt]

idt theres much Poison can do vs boulder right

[atomic salmon]

ig there is where u can argue for scarf vs band sneasler

or pex to an extent

if its sd

z

then maybe if u keep webs off

scarf sneasler would still struggle tho if u have webs up

[buoyant jolt]

Weezing actually does well into SD funnily enough I think?

as SD sets dont rly run zen

SD on Rock tho just kills

so I may actually need scarf here to not lose

[atomic salmon]

ehhhhhhh z zen still is fun / viable to use. think rock z is just more of psychic

[buoyant jolt]

sorry boomp 😭

[atomic salmon]

whatchu apologizing for?????

[buoyant jolt]

for not sticking with ur team

[atomic salmon]

ur fine lol

[buoyant jolt]

oh

[atomic salmon]

oh no

its a suggestion on what i came up with

i always say

tweak

to ur liking for a reason

[buoyant jolt]

Salazzles a fun mon with a somewhat important niche but building is annoying :c but the scarf sneasler version should work

[atomic salmon]

in my personal experience i havent really needed to utilize scarf sneasler here. but

hm

https://pokepast.es/4e6a5006665a720f i had the scarf version as well btw

just incase u said u didnt like band

LOL

[buoyant jolt]

I do like band I just

didnt see a sequence where SD Psych boulder was doable

[atomic salmon]

well now

u have both band and scarf version lol

[buoyant jolt]

yea

[atomic salmon]

🙂

[buoyant jolt]

tysm boop >w<

boomp

[atomic salmon]

i hope u have fun!

and np fam

[buoyant jolt]

I will 😄 doing this >:)

toxics ur hoodra

[atomic salmon]

yess thats always fun to see

[drowsy lion]

https://pokepast.es/06a26e5e9dbae5d7

I need help finding a 6th member for this team and maybe help me fix up the movesets.

Its for Nat Dex Ubers

and I was trying to go for Bulky Offense centered around Gouging Fire.

I was considering:

Walking Wake
Torkoal
Dragapult
Rillaboom

But not sure on which one I should choose or if there's a better option

[hazy remnant]

none of these mons are viable for national dex ubers

additionally we only rate full teams, we don’t help build incomplete ones here

[drowsy lion]

oh where should I go for that?

[hazy remnant]

i guess #comp-general would be a better place but again

[drowsy lion]

Alright got it

[hazy remnant]

this team is not viable at all in the tier

[drowsy lion]

Okay I'm gonna put in one of the ones I was considering and see if you guys can help me fix it with mons that are viable

[hazy remnant]

you should probably play around with sample teams on ladder first to get a feel for what mons are good in the tier

and look at the viability rankings ofc

[drowsy lion]

Okay

[drowsy lion]

https://pokepast.es/d70b1d1b27386989

I looked on sample teams and im not sure what mons I should use for my team, Mine is supposed to be kind of a sun team and i don't know any other setters than Groudon on the tier and I'm not sure what I should replace to put Groudon on

[solemn zodiac]

lowkey i think you should just play ndou instead of ndubers

all ur mons are already legal (i think)

[drowsy lion]

I wanted to use Gouging Fire, it's an Uber

[solemn zodiac]

well gouging fire kind of sucks in ndubers so bad luck

[drowsy lion]

What format is Gouging fire good in?

[solemn coral]

making a yzard weather team for ndex doubles, could use some thoughts

https://pokepast.es/e02cd904ca1918d7

[solemn zodiac]

these apparently

dont quote me on this tho

[grand spear]

I will

[crimson obsidian]

https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1320229793270337536 this probably belongs here

[gloomy cargo]

Hi I just made this team and kinda new to competitive pokemon I just wanted to make a all normal team just to have some fun with it https://pokepast.es/fc637c3bcd5876cb

[dry ridge]

Hey @gloomy cargo, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

[keen zephyr]

If this team is for Natdex Monotype, this is definitely unviable as you only have 1.25 viable Pokemon, and aren't using the good mons Normal has access to, u also lack a Flying type and lack Ditto, I would look at the samples

@gloomy cargo forums has a sample team thread and the Natdex mono room has them asw

[atomic salmon]

i would suggest using one of the normal sample teams and looking at the vr for normal

https://pokepast.es/b8f788e7b0d2a8fa
https://pokepast.es/e0f309f304525de1
https://pokepast.es/6794a8f8e65324c1

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-national-dex-monotype-viability-rankings-may-2025.3715785/

vr ^

[gloomy cargo]

Do I have to use ditto

[buoyant jolt]

theres no real reason to drop Ditto

tbh

only on like certain HOs maybe like the sample mateeus made

[gloomy cargo]

Thanks for the suggestion

Changed the team just a little bit

[atomic salmon]

nice nice

show the updated paste whenever or if u feel confident already, test it out in friendly battles / laddering

[gloomy cargo]

I will after I win using it 5 times

So far I've only won 4 times

2 against the same person 💀

I might actually need to add ditto

That or staraptor

[gloomy cargo]

Just wondering do you happen to have any other of these pokepast things but for different types of teams like water fire electric

[atomic salmon]

Yeah all of those are included on the sample thread

Ill link

[gloomy cargo]

Thank u

[atomic salmon]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-national-dex-monotype-sample-teams-ver-2-submissions-open.3733806/post-9920936

can click on the sprites for the teams

[gloomy cargo]

Thanks

[atomic salmon]

npppp

[strange stone]

https://pokepast.es/bd0a159c78e935c2

Typical physical spam team with a unique arc set arc likes to come in front of zygarde potentially glaring as then it can't get toxicd just walls zygarde very hard this team has some unconventional ways to deal with ho oh like facade salamance and rock coverage on both Groudon and necrozoma

Some replay vs ghaz core
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2389149673-30mq4mxv9kp1dlafd4tmdxledvkbr75pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2389158995-gist5ui99q6nehl8i7qp1kb17ieraevpw

[crimson obsidian]

hey so this arceus set is kind of unviable, tera normal double-edge arceus is popular because it just ohkoes zygarde at +2

fwiw with webs lo yveltal is almost mandatory

[low juniper]

drop scale shot for substitute on kyurem black

ngl its not worth it

[crimson obsidian]

and you probably would prefer chi-yu over unecro

[low juniper]

also drop either magic coat or ceasless edge for perish song

cuz otherwise this team gets bullied by dd zyg

[strange stone]

Noted

[low juniper]

also u might want rapid spin or mortal spin

if ur using both kyub and mmence

cuz theyre rocks weak

also theres a better unecro spread

[strange stone]

What's that

[low juniper]

Necrozma-Dusk Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 40 HP / 248 Atk / 80 Def / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Dragon Dance
• Photon Geyser
• Earthquake
• Stone Edge

A spread of 40 HP / 248 Atk / 80 Def / 140 Spe allows Ultra Necrozma to outspeed Chi-Yu unboosted and Choice Scarf Yveltal at +1. The physical investment enables Ultra Necrozma to avoid an OHKO from +2 Arceus's Extreme Speed after Spikes and Choice Band Marshadow's Shadow Sneak after switching into Stealth Rock as Necrozma-DM. The special bulk enables Necrozma-DM to avoid a OHKO from +1 Eternatus's Fire Blast after Stealth Rock.

[strange stone]

Chi-yu on a physical spam

?

[strange stone]

Thank u

[distant hearth]

Chi-Yu takes better advantage of webs while also ensuring they stay up with Taunt
Plus you shouldn't aim to just spam exclusively physical attackers regardless as then you can struggle with Zygarde

[crimson obsidian]

Yeah, tera fairy zyg just kind of sits on this whole team as Bob said while tera water still isn't a great matchup. Also if you're going to use double dance Primal Groudon Stone Edge is better than Rock Slide, but Heat Crash tends to be better than either

[hearty kiln]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexmonotype-2389356981-48o4c9sdnfmlakci6ox2pjp8sxn3sknpw
https://pokepast.es/b7d7b0a78dfd6203

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic salmon]

i dont see no paste, just a replay

oh i see it wtf

im blind

honestly as u got a W with the team, this is really unviable in the long run. If you want to utilize weather on ground i would just stick to the generic Sand Ground.

[hearty kiln]

ok

[strange stone]

Didn't knew zygarde can tera

Appreciate all the advice

[dry ridge]

Hey @jade pond, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

[leaden bolt]

https://pokepast.es/0c12a02237619bd3

hah

https://pokepast.es/e947102479dc5367

[crimson obsidian]

The second would be fine as a screens team w grim or deoxys over zyg

[leaden bolt]

and the first?

also

isnt there some rule that

you need to use a ground type

per team

[solemn zodiac]

not rly

in ndubers

theres like no electrics only electric coverage

and the mons that has electric coverage also has ways to get through pdon zyg and groundceus

[distant hearth]

With Dragon-types and PDon everywhere, Electric isn't a particularly good offensive STAB option, instead being mostly an option for Primal Kyogre to ease the matchup against other mono-Water-types like itself, Alomomola and the rare Arceus-Water, otherwise being more of a tool to fish for a paralysis if the raw damage output of its Water STAB won't do, for instance out of its ability + STAB a neutral Origin Pulse hits harder than a super effective Thunder
I guess Kyurem-B and Zekrom are also a thing, but they're very niche and every team naturally fits checks to them regardless

[crimson obsidian]

oh I figurted it was a emem team ro something because of the mega balstoise

ground types are not as common on ho and stall

as bob said, pdon being ground means a ground type will be on most teams

[leaden bolt]

no its a real team im planning to use ahha

[crimson obsidian]

I would highly recommend against using mega blastoise

[leaden bolt]

why?

shell smash to win

[crimson obsidian]

Infinitely easier said than done. There is a reason it isn't ranked

[leaden bolt]

oh

im doing megas to high ndubers seasonals

what megas would you recommend

@crimson obsidian

[crimson obsidian]

Mega diancie and mega mence are the only decent ones, mmy is meh but ok. Not sure if any others are ranked

[leaden bolt]

...

which one of the unranked ones are good

if you say none i will have to take matters in my own hands!

[crimson obsidian]

Nobody is stopping you from doing what you want

[solemn zodiac]

np psychic low kick stone edge mmx

[grand spear]

I think you need to think abt why they might be unranked

[solemn zodiac]

np psychic low kick stone edge mmx needs to be ranked tho frfr

[distant hearth]

TBH a whole article could be made on why every D-tier is where it is
But in a nutshell it generally has to do with something else that's actually ranked performing its role better, or simply not being up to the power level of the metagame

[main warren]

https://pokepast.es/c22de33eab483192

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 156 SpA / 48 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

• Dazzling Gleam
• Haze
• Heal Pulse
• Moonblast

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unseen Fist
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 124 Def / 120 SpD

• Aqua Jet
• Close Combat
• Surging Strikes
• Protect

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 112 HP / 180 Atk / 216 Spe

• Earth Power
• U-turn
• Rock Slide
• Knock Off

Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Water Spout
• Thunder
• Protect
• Thunder Wave

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Moody
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Spore
• Decorate
• Follow Me
• Baneful Bunker

Flutter Mane @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk

• Calm Mind
• Moonblast
• Dazzling Gleam
• Shadow Ball

here someone

[crimson obsidian]

Just the paste is fine, but there is zero chance this is a viable team

[low juniper]

load more uber pokemon please

[distant hearth]

This isn't VGC, there's no legendary restrictions of that sort

[native wagon]

is this where i put doubles natdex

[grand spear]

Correct

Also

!pokepaste

[dry ridge]

Pokémon Showdown's team database is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply save your team to Showdown's database and you can share your team offsite by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team, scroll to the bottom of the team, untick the checkbox to make your team public, and press the button that says Upload to Showdown database.

You can then take the link to your team and share that link to share the team with other people.

This command will be removed soon please use !psteams or !shareteam moving forward.

[native wagon]

it doesn’t work on my phone, i did try

[cerulean mason]

https://pokepast.es/bbe5a5bf4ea567be

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean mason]

I'm a Bug player who just made my first ever Steel team today

[worthy fjord]

Its an ok start, mons wise
You had the immunity core right there, and the other mons are pretty solid in their own right

However, I kinda notice that you dont have water resists like Ferro or Hisui Goodra/Archaludon. Without Ferro you kinda have to use a very very bulky Mega Scizor (with Roost) if you wanna beat the rain water matchup. Without hisui goodra, Volcarona becomes a terrible mu as it carries HP Ground almost always and Heatran doesnt have a rock move there, and doesnt have recovery (lefties) either

You also dont have a z move user, which would usually just be gholdengo

Which mon did you want to build around btw, so that we could adjust based on what your wants meow

[cerulean mason]

wdym "immunity core"? also, which mon do you suggest switching w/ Goohisui?

[distant hearth]

Gholdengo + Heatran + a Flying-type is a general teambuilding core for Steel teams, named in this manner as each one has an immunity to a type Steel as a whole is normally weak to

[native wagon]

steel mono 😋

[worthy fjord]

Swap melmy with H.Goo

[cerulean mason]

ohhh

[edgy torrent]

ND Ubers https://pokepast.es/848ce2ab84a81149

[distant hearth]

Mirror Herb + Swagger Marshadow is pretty matchup fishy, I'd recommend more the standard Life Orb + Bulk Up set here
Additionally you'd want to swap Behemoth Blade for Wild Charge on Zacian-C so it's not just walled by Ho-Oh, plus the team doesn't seem particularly weak to Arceus-Fairy and Tera Fairy mons as to require Behemoth Blade, as Play Rough does pressure more of the metagame in normal scenarios given the trend of Dragon-types

[edgy torrent]

Just realized this paste is a lil outdated.

For zachian I replaced CC with wild charge and changed its tera to flying

[distant hearth]

Well, that's unecessary, that just makes it struggle with Primal Groudon as then it can't even try to overwhelm it at all, also, as this is Sticky Web hyper offense you'd want to try to fit Yveltal and Chi-Yu somewhere, given that those two heavily enable such team structures between the capability to block hazard removal as well as ensuring progress

[edgy torrent]

Do you think it’d be best to replace eternatus with yveltal?

[distant hearth]

It could go over Eternatus or Marshadow really
In fact Marsh is often hard to justify in hyper offense, it's more of an anti-offense mon in itself

[edgy torrent]

Gotcha, thanks

[crimson obsidian]

Primal kyogre would be better with calm mind over water spout as well

[edgy torrent]

Water spout fun

Nothing without water absorb, storm drain, or desolate land wants to switch in

Full power 3HKO’s Chansey

[crimson obsidian]

We do not have any of the latter and +1 ice beam removes Pdon for Zac. This team autoloses v stall anyways

[edgy torrent]

The mons with taunt, encore and hard hitting moves in question:

[solemn zodiac]

i dont think the encore user is doing anything considering its shuckle

i also dont think the taunt user is doing much to staple stallmon dondozo either

and the evs are kind of wack i think

[edgy torrent]

How so

[solemn zodiac]

at the least i think bulky ekiller runs very minor speed investment to outrun pdon

and also adamant zacc is usually not worth it

[crimson obsidian]

you want at least 290 speed

arguably 327

[solemn zodiac]

why not 329 to outspeed base 100s?

well to be fair now that i think about it what viable base 100s are there

[crimson obsidian]

you can, but chi-yu is the only and it dies to espeed anyways, but yeah hitting 329 (can't remember if it is a jumpoint for ada) is good at well

[distant hearth]

It's not a jump point as that'd require a non-neutral nature on the pertinent stat

[analog juniper]

NatDex Doubles

Clodsire (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature

• Earthquake
• Recover
• Toxic
• Poison Jab

Tyranitar (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature

• Stealth Rock
• Crunch
• Dragon Tail
• Stone Edge

Hippowdon (M) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature

• Whirlwind
• Stealth Rock
• Slack Off
• Earthquake

Glimmora (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature

• Mortal Spin
• Stealth Rock
• Power Gem
• Earth Power

Ferrothorn (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

• Leech Seed
• Spikes
• Knock Off
• Gyro Ball

Corviknight (M) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Unnerve
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature

• Body Press
• Roost
• Brave Bird
• U-turn

Tried making a sandstorm team.

[hazy remnant]

!pokepaste

[dry ridge]

Pokémon Showdown's team database is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply save your team to Showdown's database and you can share your team offsite by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team, scroll to the bottom of the team, untick the checkbox to make your team public, and press the button that says Upload to Showdown database.

You can then take the link to your team and share that link to share the team with other people.

This command will be removed soon please use !psteams or !shareteam moving forward.

[limpid pawn]

https://pokepast.es/26da36b0de026379

[solemn zodiac]

scizor doesnt work bc u mega and then u just lose wbb

[limpid pawn]

you mean AAA doesn't allow the fake abilities for the megas too?

smfh

[solemn zodiac]

they are allowed for the base formes not the megas themselves

because you dont start as the megas you start as the base formes

[lyric mist]

https://pokepast.es/1a5285a1b518b409

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sonic summit]

Mental Herb has no value in NDUU

Rocky Helmet and Red Card are generally betyer

u should probably run Wisp over Twave to punish Mega Tar and Excadrill

if ur were to run Twave its dropping taunt

the team itself its very standard not much to build upon

HO building is incredibly easy

Synthesis Serperior is prob a throw in a super sand dominant tier

glare or sub works therr better

[lyric mist]

aight tysm

[jovial willow]

I am joining a Nat Dex tournament in a few days and want some feedback on my team. Any suggestions or improvements I can make?

I know the Leavanny isn’t the best option, but Sewaddle is my favorite Pokémon so I really want to use Leavanny

[crimson obsidian]

is this doubles ou or something? I can't think of any other tier where this combinaition of mons would even be legal

[jovial willow]

So this isn’t official NatDex. It’s actually for a Cobblemon server (a Pokemon mod for Minecraft). The format is NatDex, but with some items added/removed and a different ban list. Like Flutter Mane is just a restricted mon for the tournament and we are allowed 1.

[lyric mist]

!pixelmon

[dry ridge]

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1373406929317269624

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for formats hosted on the Smogon forums, such as VGC and OU.

Additionally, do not ask for assistance with fangames, Minecraft/Roblox mods, or other such titles. These games/mods have mechanics and available Pokémon which do not match those in the actual Pokémon games or Smogon's formats, and are often played with arbitrary rulesets.

[jovial willow]

Oh, sorry.

[crude bloom]

good morning! i was wondering if i could get some help with figuring this team out, i centered the core around lucario which is one of my favorite mons from when it was released, and i was doing research into the mons since ive not played a new pokemon game in ages given the fact that i stopped at legends arceus which is where i found this tinglu thing and tried it out.

I was wondering if this team was any bit viable for real competitive play or if there are changes that would need to be made, in terms of comp experience i used to do some light stuff that could be considered more casual but im fully getting into it recently and figured id get some guidance on if what i built was any good based on my research

[solemn zodiac]

Lucario is NDUbers and none of the other mons are viable in NDUbers

hell the lucario set itself is not even the 1 usable set

[crude bloom]

oh i was going for nat dex AG which if i recall from the reading i did is anything goes, granted im pretty sure what you meant by this is that the team doesnt synergize well

[solemn zodiac]

i would suggest making lucario not mega and just play NDOU

[solemn zodiac]

this is extremely bad in natdex ag because for comparison you are going against stuff like mega rayquaza and 3 arceus and calyrex-shadow

...and certain teams that can infinitely stall you out with revival blessing

[crude bloom]

gotcha, so definitely try out a team for natdex ou, which i see ou in the team buider on showdown but i dont see a ndou, its the same set if i am correct right?

[solemn zodiac]

NDOU is just national dex

[crude bloom]

oh my bad, let me fix that on the team builder

[lyric mist]

And tbh the EV spreads and natures are bad 👀

So maybe use the samples teams?

Idk

[crude bloom]

makes sense, i was mostly looking to spread the points between bulk and their main offensive trait as well as speed which i used a calculator at first, ill definitely look over samples when i get home from work since ive gotta leave the house soon

[bleak wing]

could anyone help me figure out the last two mons i should use? tryna build around maero and then when i was looking for inspiration from forum i realized i might have accidentally followed the sample without realizing lmao https://pokepast.es/87653eca393e7b5b

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[bleak wing]

sorry if this isnt a good place to ask

[sonic summit]

Hippowdon next followed by Nasty Plot Hydrapple seems fine

[bleak wing]

oooh

wait nasty plot hydrapple?

i dont really play uu much so i odnt know the niches of some of these mons

could u tell me what hydrapple is for exactly plz

[sonic summit]

grants you additional padding against Excadrill and Mega Tyranitar while still being incredibly threatening to traditional steels like Celesteela and Aegislash

Nasty Plot is valued here to break balance and fat structures

[bleak wing]

yea cuz not many crazy setup sweeping on the team im guessing?

or another reason idk

https://pokepast.es/95015e66a9294358 so this final team right?

idk what hydrapple spread should exactly be lel

[bleak wing]

wait @sonic summit how would i deal with gweezing

sorry for ping

[bleak wing]

https://pokepast.es/9403b62f28e88e6e um

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[bleak wing]

is this valid

sob

i didnt know what to put for sixth so i just put on moth

i could put a mien or zera maybe instead of it idk

[tepid raft]

National dex ubers https://pokepast.es/cec38c9aa25ce0fb

[distant hearth]

Just replace the Arceus-Dark set with the Calm Mind one and it's good to go
Foul Play Arceus-Dark is exclusive to stall nowadays

[low juniper]

Use Swords dance zacc brah wtf is 4a

Also go whirlwind hooh this team doesn't benefit from twave that much

[silk coral]

I tried making a NatDex Doubles team for Mega Charizard X, however so far I couldn't come up with anything good, can somebody help me? https://pokepast.es/07da91a03e041f2f

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[solemn zodiac]

natdex doubles
pings ndmono raters

[silk coral]

I pinged someone?!

I didn't want to ping anybody specifically

[sonic sleet]

few things

zardx is generally worse than other pokemon, its main good aspect as a pokemon is being a tailwind/wisper that takes a lot of moves semi well

swords dance sets get directly outclassed by other setup pokemon, like ogerpon hearthflame and mega salamence

your ninetales alola has the wrong item, but it doesnt really fit here anyways

alolatales relies a lot on kyurem black or base kyurem for viability, and not using those makes it meaningless

ting lu really really wants to have phazing so it doesnt just get set up on

[silk coral]

Well the thing is, I wanted to make a team specifically for ZardX, just because I wanted to try it after seeing it on other players' teams (I don't remember what other Pokémon they had)

[sonic sleet]

Yeah, u can make a team with zardx the mon is fine

[silk coral]

All the other Pokémon in this team are kinda thrown almost randomly

[sonic sleet]

But sd is simply not its niche

Ill show u an example

https://pokepast.es/65156c474ca29546 https://pokepast.es/747b67f34b195e37

on these teams, you leverage the niches of zardx being tailwind and wisp with mixed bulk and a neat typing

[silk coral]

So basically it serves more as a support Pokémon?

[sonic sleet]

yeah, pretty much

this specific spread makes it live two consecutive spectral thieves from sword of ruin life orb marshadow

while koing back marshadow with flare blitz

on the first team, ghold fini and ogerpon serve as great partners that shut down the general weaknesses of zardx pretty well

namely ghold against opposing fini and diancie, fini against ground types like landorus incarnate landorus therian and fire types that hard wall it (especially heatran), ogerpon teal against incineroar

on team 2 it itself is there because the team is generally weak to steel types and pao marshadow compositions, both of which zard covers well

[silk coral]

Thanks a lot, later I'll give these teams a look

Can I ask you to rate another team I made?

[sonic sleet]

oh sure ofc

[silk coral]

It's not a masterpiece but it won me a tournament so I'm very attached to it

[silk coral]

https://pokepast.es/08f2f8f8b8f61548

[sonic sleet]

hm yeah

this team just has like 3 good pokemon counting naganadel and alolatales as halves

[silk coral]

Any improvements I could make?
I mostly struggle against sun teams with flutter mane and Heatran

[sonic sleet]

so ill be rating it completely honestly

[sonic sleet]

so first of all, structural weaknesses
naganadel as your sole secondary fire resist isnt a good look at all, so i see why you struggle against any fire type, as it seems that you cant even directly threaten them.
no fairy resists or bulky assault vests leaves you very prone to mega gardevoir, flutter mane, and tapu fini
i assume you want the focus of this team to be naganadel and ursaluna bloodmoon going forward? so i will give the future feedback based on that
life orb ursaluna is cool, but should just be running max special attack with speed, and the mons niche over landorus incarnate is the fact that it can go in both trick room and tailwind so you should probably add one of those
id rather see a z move (like z fire or z poison) on naganadel or smth like scarf? life orb is also safe
and second of all, mon weaknesses
vikavolt is completely horrendous sadly, doesnt serve much of a purpose as it loses to so so much and gets outclassed by so so so much especially at assault vesting electric (namely by iron hands, raging bolt, and zeraora)
as previously mentioned with your other team, alolatales is a weak pokemon when not using a dedicated snow mon and a shit ton of setup to go with it, and just exacerbates your issue against fire types
lurantis is the best of the worst, but it is also just outclassed by the miriad of grass types in the tier both offensively and defensively such as rillaboom, ogerpons, amoonguss, and kartana

if my assumption is correct about the team being about ursaluna bloodmoon its a decently sizeable fix still but doable

[silk coral]

Ursaluna was actually a "last minute" addition

This team has a long story
It started out with Bellossom using quiver dance paired with Oricorio

[sonic sleet]

well, bloodmoon incin and naga are the only mons i can reasonably keep without making this team a wildly different thing

so, to fix this team

1. we are making ursaluna bloodmoons spread be max special attack max speed with a modest nature so it can leverage tailwind to outspeed max speed flutter mane all the time

2. make naganadel one of the aforementioned items

3. replace vikavolt for an av zeraora, this will greatly help your flutter mane matchup as it naturally outspeeds flutter which means it can snarl flutter before it even moves

4. replace alolan ninetales with a calm mind tapu fini, this gives you a much needed cleaner + fire resist while also being decent terrain control so u dont get steamrolled by deoxys attack

5. replace lurantis with jirachi, jirachi brings redirection and trick room and a fairy resist to the team while also being a good switch in to deoxys attack as well

that all should make the team a lot better without messing with the core concept and gameplay of the team too much

[silk coral]

Any alternatives to either Tapu Fini or Jirachi?

[sonic sleet]

You could run diancie over both with rillaboom as your terrain control instead

[silk coral]

Alright, I'll give the team a look later

Thanks a lot for your help

[sonic sleet]

No problem at all

[restive mica]

https://pokepast.es/b496a19d3917aa57 a stupid geomancy double ou team ive been playing with

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[restive mica]

Ill take any improvements but I admit its a dumb gimmick idea that works 2/5 times

[atomic salmon]

why is it pinging the ndm ppl 💀

@sonic sleet idk who else does nd doubles rates ^^^^^ but pop off queen

[analog juniper]

Trying to make a Sandstorm team for NatDex Doubles: https://pokepast.es/836fb86885bb718d

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[low juniper]

can we please label the format of the team

@sonic sleet

[sonic sleet]

Alright ill rate both in a bit

[analog juniper]

So, is anyone going to rate my team?

[distant hearth]

@hot pecan Are you willing to rate by any chance?

[hot pecan]

I'd recommend using the sand sample as a reference - you're stacking a lot of weaknesses here with some really passive mons like ferro , corv, and hippo https://pokepast.es/5448c22c0e57bf14

you have sand but besides the spdef boost on the rock types, nothing actually makes use of its benefits

[crimson obsidian]

Smudge the

[pallid gust]

https://pokepast.es/108e7dd965f87aa8 so i found this team a while back from and wanted to actually use it but xerneas is now banned and honestly i think most of this is probably out dated so want help fixing what i can to improve the team

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[low juniper]

Replace skill swap on deoS for magic coat so u dont auto lose to opposing deo and grimmsnarl

Replace xern with yvel
Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Fire
Naive Nature

• Dark Pulse
• Oblivion Wing
• Taunt
• Sucker Punch

Change kyub set to
Kyurem-Black @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 92 Def / 164 Spe
Tera Type: Electric
Jolly Nature

• Icicle Spear
• Fusion Bolt
• Substitute
• Dragon Dance

The 252 Atk / 92 Def / 164 Spe EV spread with a Jolly nature allows Kyurem-B to outspeed Deoxys-A after a Dragon Dance while avoiding an OHKO from +2 Tera Normal Arceus's Extreme Speed and Ultra Necrozma's Stone Edge.

Change unecro spread to
Necrozma-Dusk Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 40 HP / 248 Atk / 80 Def / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Dragon Dance
• Photon Geyser
• Earthquake
• Stone Edge / Outrage

A spread of 40 HP / 248 Atk / 80 Def / 140 Spe allows Ultra Necrozma to outspeed Chi-Yu unboosted and Choice Scarf Yveltal at +1. The physical investment enables Ultra Necrozma to avoid an OHKO from +2 Arceus's Extreme Speed after Spikes and Choice Band Marshadow's Shadow Sneak after switching into Stealth Rock as Necrozma-DM. The special bulk enables Necrozma-DM to avoid a OHKO from +1 Eternatus's Fire Blast after Stealth Rock.

Replace ddance on ekiller with SD

[solemn zodiac]

smogon analysis ass rmt 😭😭🙏🙏

[low juniper]

Literally copy pasted it

From smogdex

💔

[crimson obsidian]

Also the bulkier rocky helmet deoxys-s set is better than sash ATM by a large margin

[low juniper]

This team doesn't rlly need it

That set is great cuz it pressures smeargle way more

This team alr has kyub so they dont need that

Going helmet deoS means u lose to opposing sash deoS asw so that kinda sucks

[crimson obsidian]

Fair enough ig

I still prefer it anyways, but different strokes

[pallid gust]

either way thank you @low juniper

[tiny atlas]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[dry ridge]

Hey @tiny atlas, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

[tiny atlas]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[unborn ice]

https://pokepast.es/093b088236d50562 I want to replace Magearna and Tapu Lele on this team, what mons fit their roles? (Nat-dex Ubers UU)

[dry ridge]

Hey @unborn ice, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexubersuu. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[pallid gust]

https://pokepast.es/a7fbe18427423147 so i built this team around kangaskhan and wanted to know if its viable enough for national dex ubers and its current meta, keep in mind i do know what the meta is just never learned how to actually make teams to work around it

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[crimson obsidian]

Hey, so mega Kang isn't really viable and this is a standardish mola structure from around a year ago. This team kinda gets smoked the moment webs go up and has a ton of issues with taunt cm Arceus tormes

[low juniper]

dont

[low juniper]

theres no cm darkceus answer on this team and u have 1 way of breaking zyg with yvel

dont use mega kanga he sucks (seismic toss is mid when everything has loads of hp anyways)

[distant hearth]

@celest marlin

[distant hearth]

Also, regarding this team, besides the whole issue with M-Kangaskhan itself, I'd be more concerned about the Necrozma-DM in a non-offense team, given that it doesn't particularly benefit from a slow pivot compared to choice-locked breakers and shines more as a revenge killer in more momentum-reliant structures
You could replace M-Kangaskhan with Fezandipiti, which eases the Yveltal and CM Arc forme matchup, and replace NDM with Choice Band Marshadow to ease the Zygarde matchup while also having a wallbreaker that does benefit from slow pivoting

[low juniper]

also make girao special

[celest marlin]

• Nothing does what magaerna does. If you replace it you lose its utility of being one of the only good defensive checks to chien pao that also isn't passive and momentum draining.
• Lele is the only mon that gets Psychic Surge, you can't replace it with an equivalent Pokemon. You'd have to change the concept of the team. You could run a different set, though...

Why do you want to replace those two? What are you looking to do with the remaining mons?

Is there a certain mon you would like to use that's not on that team?

[celest marlin]

To add on to what @low juniper said:

• even though you aren't running Seismic Toss and instead are running PupReturn, Mega Kangaskhan simply does not hit hard enough for its Speed tier and bulk to distinguish itself from Extreme Killer Arceus, which gets SD, Extreme Speed, an item slot, and Tera. Fake Out isn't worth it.
• Sami suggested dropping Poltergeist for Hex, basically, but you can find the proper set on the strategy dex. Poltergeist's absolutely trash pp is a really big hindrance when you don't even 2hko targets with it.

[low juniper]

• no draco makes it harder to check what its supposed to (i.e pdon and ekiller)

[pallid gust]

whats the best way to wall yveltal?

[distant hearth]

Fezandipiti is the best Yveltal check in the metagame
It can slow it down with Icy Wind to then eventually Roost before being Taunt'd, while also threatening its longevity with bad poisoning by Toxic Chain, even compressing utility by pivoting to a more offensive answer once it's worn down into KO range

[low juniper]

Cm fairceus, cm darkceus and zacc are also good answers

[pallid gust]

mk thanks yall

[old nimbus]

natdex doubles
https://pokepast.es/e55bc6362f5a34f1

[dry ridge]

Hey @old nimbus, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexdoubles. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[solemn zodiac]

#comp-general

this channel is for rating teams, not asking for teams

[junior badge]

Mons are good and viable which is nice to see, but there are a couple things I'd do to improve the team anyway
You're weak to stealth rocks, so I'd immediately go boots incineroar and switch to tera grass (you're already a somewhat fast incin so I don't see you losing fake out trades)
Haze chien Pao is definitely non standard, could maybe have a use but I think spore + incin suffices enough of the time, and pao kills kingambit anyway for when it doesn't
Eject button farigiraf could be kinda funny over sitrus to make it have value in all matchups, but I don't hate sitrus either. Throat spray with hyper voice/psychic noise could be nice too
Tera ghost could work on pao, if you don't want to do that at least go tera stellar over dark
Mixed mega mence is standard but I think Draco meteor is a nice tech over hyper voice, could go double edge draco meteor. The mence set still doesn't suck though
Diancie/other rock matchup isn't great, adding will-o wisp over knock off on incineroar can help and maybe you could find a steel as well?

[junior badge]

You're also kinda weak to heatran

But you can take it out with pressure from flutter shadow ball

[subtle mirage]

Hyper Offense I built with very little research, currently 1600~ elo

[subtle mirage]

issue is the absolute stall team of, Giratina, Chansey, Arc Dark etc

otherwise fine and pretty comfy

[crimson obsidian]

Wouldn't really call this ho, but yeah it doesn't beat atall

[subtle mirage]

fair

[pallid oriole]

i would questoin the practicality of having both zacian and unec but im not confident saying that

[subtle mirage]

I personally feel as if Zacian is a but lacking. the only thing he feels to provide is speed/revenge killing

[subtle mirage]

I kinda feel that playing the team, like sacian is great for speed and revenge killing but NDM feel pretty good fro switch ins and can sometimes run away with the game

[crimson obsidian]

It is a weird mishmash of ho and some sort of offense /bo

[subtle mirage]

yea

BTW I purely play off instinct and experience I have done 0 research into gameplay/comp

[crimson obsidian]

So ekiller tends to be ho exclusive, ultra necrozma as well (at least dd) and the rest of the team is pretty bo coded

It is probably better to decide between the two

[subtle mirage]

I would prefer HO

I just wanna hit shit

XD

[crimson obsidian]

The deo-s sample is more or less this team as a ho

[subtle mirage]

Deoxys-speed sample?

im not well inversed in jargon/lingo

[crimson obsidian]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-sample-teams-updated-30-03-2025.3752303/

[pallid oriole]

id generally recomend only running lo outside of ho cause the recoil can regularly stop you from being able to clean games, which ho doesnt like, while more slow paced teams apreciate its ability to make progress better and hit with a strong priority attack to save you from a sweeper

[subtle mirage]

lo?

[pallid oriole]

life orb

[subtle mirage]

ah I see sorry for my inexperience

[fleet spire]

https://pokepast.es/cf9a9f7ab90135ab
"Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites”

[junior badge]

Format?

Also if you want to use clamperl a more appropriate doubles tier (I assumed doubles) would be gen 4 doubles/vgc, go ask in smogon doubles cord or vgc cord

[fleet spire]

Natdex monotype

[solemn zodiac]

anyways i dont play ndmono but i think clamperl is very very bad

@worthy fjord @runic sage

[worthy fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/vica-vica-macska-vica-cat-vica-kitten-kitten-gif-13072422815127757848

[worthy fjord]

Clamperl aside
I think you want more priority since this seems to be HO

Something like Keldeo over Araquanid, getting a scarf user incase of scarfers that usually hover above webs

Ogerpon-W can be considered over mana, it has the coverage you like and its fast enough

Uhh

Scarfers is like scarf prot gren btw

[fleet spire]

What is a prot?

[worthy fjord]

Protean

[fleet spire]

Ok thanks

[fleet spire]

What should a replace with a scarf gren?

[worthy fjord]

Try out basc or mana

[fleet spire]

Ok

[arctic turret]

I'm almost afraid to hear how bad this is...

https://pokepast.es/f35daa5b9851a0fc

[dry ridge]

Hey @arctic turret, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexdoubles. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[limpid pawn]

it’s pretty solid

i love the picks

[arctic turret]

wait... really?

[limpid pawn]

it’s just that it lacks in speed….

and is Phys heavy

[arctic turret]

there it is, lol. I just kinda picked whatever i've used in previous playthroughs of the games and winged it.

[limpid pawn]

your picks are alright it’s just that we need to give you a BIT more leverage with it

for starters

I do like Hisuian Zoroark, but not bringing much to the table with illusion unless you’re bringing it in as Ursaluna

even then it’s STILL not ok because of Knock Off users wanting to remove its Flame Orb

so i’m thinking you could replace it with a faster mon like Torn-T

[arctic turret]

typically, i use it disquised as Garchomp to bait Ice type moves thinking they can do a one shot.

[limpid pawn]

that’s actually smart, but can be VERY dicey

if you’re gonna bait as Garchomp, it should be full offensive imo. Take Stealth rock out and replace it with Rock Slide

[arctic turret]

alright. done. anything else?

[limpid pawn]

we might need to change Indeedee’s item

actually wait

[arctic turret]

I settled on twisted spoon cause i didn't like Terrain Extender. kept interfering with Scizor's Bullet Punch and Incineroar's Fake Out

[limpid pawn]

yeah which isn’t that great i imagine

i do think that Indeedee can benefit from Follow me, and use it as leverage to help the other pokemon on this team to set up

sub is very passive

[arctic turret]

I'd have to sacrifice damage, since Indeedee (M) doesn't get Follow Me

[limpid pawn]

wait i forgot

shoot

it can probably run choice specs with Tera Fairy

or Psychic seed, since Lele is also an issue

[arctic turret]

I assume for the Specs version, replace Sub with Tera Blast?

and then lose helping hand?

[limpid pawn]

yeah

but only if you want to

if you want to keep helping hand then use Psychic seed

[arctic turret]

Alright. I'll go seed.

That's Garchomp and Indeedee down. Anything i should mess with for the other four?

[limpid pawn]

hm

your Incineroar set is basically perfect

i like it

Tornadus @ Mental Herb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

• Tailwind
• Taunt
• Hurricane
• Icy Wind

should go over Hisuian Zoroark to give your team a bit more speed

and can annoy set up users / hazard setters / Status spreaders

[arctic turret]

This adds another thing to manage while Terrain is up. Taunt and Tailwind would be blocked due to being priority... that's something i'm gonna have to get used to, i guess?

[limpid pawn]

well it depends really

Torn T is there to prevent you from being set up on

so it heavily relies on how and when you bring indeedee in

[arctic turret]

That has been an issue in the past. the couple matches had been rough due to that. I'll try it out

[limpid pawn]

Ursaluna’s set is fine

i think Scizor should run U-turn instead of Bug Bite

[arctic turret]

It... runs both.

[limpid pawn]

yes but how does Scizor pivot out of a bad match up is what i’m hinting at

[arctic turret]

Typically i click bug bite for higher damage, and then u-turn to pivot, since it doesn't get tech. boost. but what should I swap Bug Bite to?

[limpid pawn]

that’s honestly fair

I do worry about Ferrothorn and Heatran

so maybe Superpower?

[arctic turret]

Yeah, Since it get's tech boost, Bug bite is 90 power compared to U-Turn's 70, and wouldn't force me to swap.

Another issue i've ran into is water types. I don't resist it anywhere

[limpid pawn]

hm

you could possibly swap out indeedee for Tapu Koko or Rillaboom

that way you won’t have to worry about not being able to use priority moves

[arctic turret]

I'll try Koko. What kind of moveset should I look at?

[limpid pawn]

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

• Thunderbolt
• Dazzling Gleam
• Grass Knot
• Taunt / Volt Switch

i don’t think taunt would work here

volt helps escape ground threats

wait ew

protect can be grass knot

[arctic turret]

Alright. I think I got the team. Would you mind battling me so I can try both old and new versions?

[limpid pawn]

sure

[arctic turret]

Sweet. Showdown Username is Acelin7478

[limpid pawn]

sending now

[arctic turret]

Alright, ready for the new variant

[limpid pawn]

ok

sending now

[arctic turret]

the only idea I have for a defog user is T-Torn, swapping Taunt for it

[limpid pawn]

that’s fine

it makes it easier

[arctic turret]

Thanks again for your help!

[limpid pawn]

you’re most welcome

[junior badge]

Not a fan, indeedee-F is much more viable as a psychic terrain setter and if you want an offensive psyterrain setter tapu Lele is available and is better in every way than indeedee-M
I don't fully understand what core you're trying to build around but I don't like incineroar-indeedee if that was your goal, it blocks your own fake out and you're still walled by tapu fini
There's a lot more things that I could say like garchomp being bad, zoroark-h being bad, ursaluna without trick room or any speed control being bad etc

https://pokepast.es/6a7c21b6d7784bc0

[dry ridge]

Hey @junior badge, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexdoubles. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[junior badge]

Psychic terrain setter with 'abuser' being gholdengo because it blocks chien pao's sucker punch and other random priority

[arctic turret]

yeah, it was my first ever team, since I had never done comp before. Rodent helped me out and now it looks like this

https://pokepast.es/661c165ea1b7c734

[junior badge]

And flutter mane too I guess

[dry ridge]

Hey @arctic turret, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexdoubles. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[junior badge]

Better in that you don't get 6-0d by flutter mane because you can actually use bullet punch because no psyterrain and you have speed control
Worse in that tapu Koko without a terrain abuser (raging bolt, possibly iron hands) sucks and is offensively nothing

Since you're new stick to mons and sets from here

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-doubles-resources.3726341/post-10428366

[fleet spire]

Flutter trick room are usable?

[junior badge]

Yeah it learns trick room

It has a surprising utility moveset

[fleet spire]

But flutter is fast it won’t viable right?

[junior badge]

Idk I just slapped it on because it could be useful someday

It might suck I have no idea

It's moreso for surprise factor being able to cancel enemy room inmediately

[limpid pawn]

incineroar is fine

[fleet spire]

https://pokepast.es/1944c02888831892
opinion? natdex monotype I just want to play ampharos

[fleet spire]

@formal garden
@distant hearth

[distant hearth]

M-Ampharos is entirely outclassed by Raging Bolt I'm afraid, and we don't support building around arbitrary restrictions if the result would be actively hindered over a strictly better pick
https://pokepast.es/494343530ef58b37
I'd recommend to just use this sample instead, it's rather similar to what this'd become

[sacred wasp]

https://pokepast.es/678cc11c737b4e78 had some success in nat dex ubers but it might just because of my low elo

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @distant hearth, @crimson obsidian. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[solemn zodiac]

this is awful

please refer to the sample teams

none of your mons are viable in ubers

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-sample-teams-updated-30-03-2025.3752303/

[tepid raft]

yo what the hell?

you didnt need to say it like that

i agree that they arent viable mons and sample teams are a good idea

but you didnt need to say the team he made is awful

[solemn zodiac]

i mean that's just the most blunt way to put it

i don't mean anything harmful i just wanna get straight to the point no sugarcoating

[crimson obsidian]

Id highly recommend using a sample team until you get a bit more used to the metagame. The wins are due to low ladder where it is mostly RU mons + maybe an Uber. None of these Pokémon are viable except for ferrothorn which is not running a viable set. Making something remotely usable out of this would be making an entirely new team

[sacred wasp]

if i switch ceruledge for palafin is it somewhat more useable? i understand it's still very bad for the format

[dry ridge]

National Dex Ubers (Gen 9)

• Sample Teams
• Teambuilding Compendium
• Speed Tiers
• Good Cores
• Viability Rankings
• C&C Forum
• Discord

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[crimson obsidian]

if you're not willing to use pokemon on the viability rankings you're not likely to receive any help

[lyric mist]

It is true tho

[fleet spire]

https://pokepast.es/e123dfa98e98a151
I have reached top 6 with this team

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic salmon]

solid team also well done on reaching top six, i would just prob do flamethrower over blast on hoodra for consistency wise. other than that i have nun more to say gj!!!!!!!!

[fleet spire]

Thanks

[distant hearth]

I can add that Gooey is kinda useless on H-Goodra, either of its two other abilities are better picks, but given the set I'd think that Sap Sipper would be nice here so it can be immune to Leech Seed and thus comfortably sit on Celesteela and M-Venusaur

[atomic salmon]

I’m ngl I thought it had sap sipper already lol

Yeah most definitely slot in sap sipper

[lyric mist]

It's a sample team bud

[fleet spire]

?

[lyric mist]

Oh my bad

The 6 is the same

And the sets too mostly

[fleet spire]

https://pokepast.es/d246e68f5fadf619

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @simple stag, @strange knoll, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[strange knoll]

only two real things wrong here, go SD>quick guard on scizor & draco>dragon pulse on arch

[fleet spire]

I don’t want to lower all of my boost from electro shot

[strange knoll]

you need draco to secure KOs on specially defensive mons like amoonguss

allowing you to preserve tera

for the most part you’ll be clicking the other 3 moves anyways it’s just nice to have the nuke into stuff like amoonguss/iron hands

[fleet spire]

And quick guard is for fake out

[strange knoll]

you don’t need quick guard for that, tech something like tera ghost dracovish & protects on torn & peli

scizor is kind of dead weight if you aren’t using SD

[upbeat beacon]

i'm seconding everything @strange knoll has said here.

I recommend using eject button on pelipper cause its job is really to just set rain and get out of the way for another rain abuser.

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/national-dex-doubles/ you might want to take a look at the dex as well to get some improved EVs.

Basc surviving Grassy Glide from Rillaboom or Arch surviving Close Combat from Marshadow may help you out in the long run.

[fleet spire]

https://pokepast.es/f99fd98561eb9076

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic salmon]

hi i feel thats too much rain abuser on this comp tbh, in theory ur not utilizing all the mons to really benefit the rain. I think m pert is more than enough and ig barra can work as well since pert is slow as shit. you have double defog and only flip turn as ur water stab on pert so i would slot stealth rock on empoleon over defog and add waterfall or liquidation on mega pert. You most definitely want like Choice Band on Barraskewda, i think life orb is bad on weather abusers bar like venusaur back in the day. and i prob would just slot in pex over kindra, just for a nice defensive back bone to fall back on. or like offensive mons like Urshifu/ Keldeo (Fighting or water z) / Waterpon in that slot

looks fun

[jagged violet]

Mono Flying: https://pokepast.es/001c984617edb5f7
This is a team for nat dex monotype and would like to hear some advice and critique on my team in case i can do better.

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[solemn zodiac]

surely murkrow and band dnite are bad

[distant hearth]

Band DNite is an actual set, but Murkrow and Hawlucha are unmons here

[solemn zodiac]

i see

[atomic salmon]

would start off by taking a look at the sample teams for flying, to get a better feel on what to look for.

i think overall what comes down to as well is like what were you building around or what were you trying to accomplish with the build as well

can prob give me a better understanding

[distant hearth]

In more detail, Murkrow is funny but just bad, its stats don't really let it do that much, and PrankHaze isn't really worth it, meanwhile Hawlucha's more of an offense Pokemon, which doesn't really line up in a Monotype context as the pool of Pokemon don't allow to viably lean that way, thus making it out of place here

Gyarados is usable, but also rather niche, while its typing is good to check Ice-types, its lack of longevity limits it to more Bulky Offense-like structures, if you want to have a sturdy defensive core you could go instead with Mantine + Zapdos to ease against the common types Mono Flying is weak to, from there you could even afford a Mega Charizard Y as then it'd have plenty of support to enable its long term wallbreaking

From here it's clear that Corv doesn't need Defog as other mons in the team can run it, typically 1-2 Defoggers are desirable when supporting M-Charizard Y, which is why the team in the end has two, and thus in the end Corv had Defog replaced with Body Press

Gliscor also shouldn't run Protect as it's outclassed by Roost, minimizing passivity while also further increasing its longevity and capability to check Rock- and Electric-types

https://pokepast.es/9d2171637858b792
Here's a revamp of the team following the above, I hope this helps

[jagged violet]

Recently I had done a tournament and lost round 1 because I just got swept by a cetitan belly drum set. Which is partially why I was running Murkrow with prankster haze, I had also put on hawlucha to give myself more coverage towards more of my weaknesses like ice rock and steel. And gyarados was there as a potential sweeper of its own and corviknight being my only defogger. But looking back it doesn’t feel great synergy wise

[jagged violet]

This does help I do appreciate showing which substitutions you did thank you for this and I’ll most likely end up using this team instead. But if possible what do you think would be a good substitute for Zapdos?

[solemn zodiac]

fwiw if you were facing belly drum cetitan its almost always ice shard which goes before prankster haze does

[distant hearth]

Being swept by a Cetitan implies that you faced mono Ice, against disfavorable types more often than not the most you can do is to out offense
The problem with Hawlucha is that its bulk is terrible and thus is at best an offensive check, which isn't too useful when an ally has to faint first so it can revenge kill, devaluing such role a lot as that only works in offense teams, which aren't viable to do in a Monotype context as explained previously
As for a Zapdos substitute, may I ask why? If you mean for the Cetitan matchup, refer back to the start of this post

[jagged violet]

But would it just clash with my priority with haze prankster and since I’m faster base stat wouldn’t I go first?

[distant hearth]

No, Speed tiers are determined by EV / IV investment as well, so you'd need nearly full investment on Murkrow just to outspeed Cetitan, and it's still trading at best as its defensive stats suck

[jagged violet]

Oh that makes more sense actually I didn’t think about that and the reason as to why is because the tournament that I did didn’t include any legendaries and even when they do I tend to not go for legendary pokemon. I’d understand if this question is a bad question to ask considering I would want the best of the best and zapdos being one of them but it’s the only reason I ask.

[distant hearth]

Uh, no, not really, all viable Electric/Flying mons are legendary

And even then...

!nolegends

[dry ridge]

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: #1373406929317269624 message

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for formats hosted on the Smogon forums, such as VGC and OU.

[jagged violet]

Ah ok well ty again for the help and advice.

[slender hollow]

Hey I have a quick question, I’m trying to build that electric tera type shedinja thing and was wondering if I should run sunny day on it or not

The moveset for it right now is swords dance, x-scissor, poltergeist, and return

[distant hearth]

The standard Shedinja set in NDAG is Secret Power + Poltergeist + Will-O-Wisp + Swords Dance
Notably this set can hinder a lot of stuff while also ignoring Rocky Helmet
Sunny Day is very prediction reliant for minimal gain, as that'd require Shedinja to use the move on the same turn the weather changes to sand or hail, otherwise being OHKOed by the indirect damage, and at that point you can just run Safety Goggles or Tera Ground to mostly ignore that

[fleet spire]

https://pokepast.es/c168e54a4c6fec1e
I pretty sure this team is extremely weak to Tapu koko

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic salmon]

thats the problem with water overall, as its koko is a pain in the ass but overall this team is solid. i would honestly do like knock off over spikes on pex to knock off key items via rocky helm against steel (so shifu can just surging strikes + cc to victory better) and like boots to rack up SR dmg. or if not knock... Definitely add Poison jab over t spikes to not be passive against bulu which is a pain as well. i fuck with the z zen headbutt tbh. poison can be a pain. especially mega venu. Vs koko u just deadass have to lead gastro and just trade with it. you will be able to recover later on in the match. what does the m gyarados evs do? would just max max it.

[fleet spire]

https://pokepast.es/d19177185da4cdb6

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @simple stag, @strange knoll, @upbeat beacon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[strange knoll]

go poison or steel over ground on lando for the tera but it looks good otherwise

[candid pendant]

https://pokepast.es/3843bbc3c0b51687
I know some of these pokemon/moves are banned but the tourney im joining allow all of these. Just not last respects sadly. Which was my whole plan for basculegion so i was thinking of maybe swapping him for rotom since im really weak to grass pokemon.
I know its not meta but the tourney is actually on a cobblemon server so its not all that serieus

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[candid pendant]

@grim cobalt

[grim cobalt]

you need more ebuttons

ebutton on toxapex for sure

probably scarf fini of golisopod with defog

band barraskewda generally is just better than basculegion

if not band even some random item like mystic water or ebelt with all the coverage it gives with pjab drill run cc crunch psyfangs etc.

[candid pendant]

Alright man thank thanks for the tips 😁

[umbral anvil]

nat dex uber

https://pokepast.es/5382331aa3dc1a91

i feel tera ground zacian's

very troublesome

[strange iris]

https://pokepast.es/380baf377567a25e

can anyone lmk what i can do better on this team? i just started and not sure what i can do better (not tryna use legendaries cus i dont really like using them)

[solemn zodiac]

doesnt this just lose to cm taunt darkceus

or just most cm taunt ceus if they tera tbh

[solemn zodiac]

!arbitraryformats

[dry ridge]

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: #1373406929317269624 message

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for formats hosted on the Smogon forums, such as VGC and OU.

[umbral anvil]

what do people use against darkeus

[solemn zodiac]

i see ho-oh and zacian-c used the most

altho u have to play more aggresively w the latter

[umbral anvil]

ho-oh

whirwind?

toxic whirlwind

sacred roost

is this good

enough

[solemn zodiac]

roost kinda a dead slot, you have regen and can just regen up if u get low

i'd run brave bird + defog over roost + toxic

[distant hearth]

• Earthquake doesn't really hit anything for Arceus, you'd want Double-Edge instead to more easily overwhelm slower foes, it even makes better use of the Z-Crystal to OHKO Zygarde at +2

• Defensive Necrozma-DM hasn't been viable ever since Xerneas got banned, and even then it was an unreliable check anyways out of Tera

• Eruption Primal Groudon is limited to offense teams, this team clearly leans away from that, so I'd recommend to just stick to the more standard defensive set, especially as the team seems rather weak to Zacian-C otherwise

• Zygarde needs Tera Fairy so this team isn't too weak to opposing Dragon Tail Zygarde, and by extension this could use the more standard defensive set so that this isn't as easy to overwhelm by setup sweepers (remember that Substitute blocks phazing by Dragon Tail)

• Terapagos is a very niche pick limited to offensive teams weak to Sticky Web, so the Pokemon seems out of place here, I'd recommend to go with offensive Ho-Oh, which is a more standard Defogger and a core member of GHAZ cores, it even eases the matchup against CM Arceus formes. If you're too concerned about such matchup you can also replace Necrozma-DM with Fezandipiti, which can check and slow down opposing Taunt users like Yveltal to then enable Ho-Oh to outspeed and Defog before being Taunt'd

• Otherwise you may want to go with defensive Primal Kyogre over Necrozma-DM, it's a jack of all trades that annoys hyper offense teams and often trades at worst

• Yveltal should run Taunt, part of its niche is being one of the best stallbreakers the tier has to offer, that can easily go over Heat Wave as this isn't hyper offense, plus this also eases the Zygarde matchup

Here's an example paste (https://pokepast.es/3776992ec49b6636) with the above suggestions implemented, but as explained you can go with slightly different results depending on your priorities/preferences, I hope this helps

[umbral anvil]

i see

[umbral anvil]

okay

[solemn zodiac]

check bobsicans advice btw hes more qualified than me at this

[distant hearth]

BTW, I'd also want to clarify that the team submitted is bulky offense at most in terms of its offensive to defensive ratio, the line between hyper offense and bulky offense in ND Ubers is very thin, so "regular" offense isn't too common, especially with the former being more meta defining nowadays

[umbral anvil]

1. i thought itll do good against pdon. so the moveset ur suggesting is sd, espeed double edge shadowclaw?
2. oh damn, i currently use it to 1v1 non sd zacian, and even with sd-no tera ground/fire zacian but i see ho-oh would do good too, also thinking about alo to sponge hits
3. yeah i later did switch eruption for lava plume, will overheat be better?
4. ohh damn, i acutally used this set in gen 8 natdex ag to stall out pdon and i thought tera water would be good against zacian, allowing me to 1v1 it somehow. (also what does phazing by dragon tail mean)
5. i see, i thought it's really great at stopping sweeps and earlier i used to use the bulky utility set with toxic roar starstorm and rapid spin but ig it just doesnt fit here..
   also very intresting fezandipiti suggestion, what set do u suggest for it
6. wow i did not know pogre could be defensively used, i will look into this
7. okay replacing hw with taunt, ( i was thinking about rock tomb for ho-oh too tho)

Okay i didnt see the team u gave me thank u soo much 😭 🙏 i will definately try to learn how this team works

actually this team is basically a shadow of the team i used to use in gen 8 nat dex ag, and used it to great success back in 2021 with the same 4 with addition of mega ray and probably arc-water, i think i peaked some rank 200s back then..the game has changed far too much for the same stuff to work

thank you so much for your valuable time and all the advices

🙏

[umbral anvil]

i think u can call it that (?) the main thing the team does is spread statuses and cripples the team as much as it can for an endgame cleanup by some mon

thats what i had in mind atleast

also what is acid spray on fez for

• i see the zygarde has taken a offensive route

good tbh

[solemn zodiac]

you spam it on calm mind arceus

[umbral anvil]

OH

[low juniper]

acid spray fez is useless here theres no special attacker to follow up on

[umbral anvil]

so fezandipiti has to 1v1 the cm arceus/?

[solemn zodiac]

• random other setup stuff

[umbral anvil]

yeah thats what i thought

[low juniper]

replace acid spray with alluring voice methinks

[umbral anvil]

i special attacker i had in mind was the kyurem white with a scarf

[low juniper]

dont use that

it just gets walled by hooh

[umbral anvil]

okay

[low juniper]

and its stealth rock weak

[umbral anvil]

yeah

actually i did try to make a team around the guy and

i mean it did eh

[low juniper]

u could try calm mind arceus ground instead of ekiller arceus

[umbral anvil]

ohh

max speed?

or bulk

[low juniper]

max speed max spatk

[umbral anvil]

damn

[low juniper]

acc wait

theres a bulkier spread

lemme send

[umbral anvil]

and what oppurtunities to setup will i get

[low juniper]

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 72 HP / 60 Def / 252 SpA / 124 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Water
Modest Nature

• Calm Mind
• Judgment
• Ice Beam / Power Gem
• Recover

[low juniper]

u can force out pokemon like primal groudon and necrozma-dm

[umbral anvil]

okay

[distant hearth]

1: Yeah
2: Thing is that every single viable Zacian-C set runs SD, those that don't are just ladder memes
3: Overheat has a reliable damage output regardless of PDon's current HP, because of its lesser reliance on the current longevity state of PDon, it's better at wallbreaking more reliably, especially as it's generally tasked to wall a specific mon or two per match, part of the reason it's ranked so high has to do with its heavy role compression, mainly being held back by its lack of reliable recovery
4: Tera Water is also good, but not being phazed is crucial so that it can actually check other Zygarde. Given that the team would have Yveltal and POgre as Zygarde checks, you can also afford Tera Water instead in exchange of a weaker matchup, but that's up to preference as both Tera types are still good
5: The Fezandipiti set is in the paste I just linked at the end of my previous post, it's the standard one in the set, so you can check there if you need more details on it
6: 👍
7: Ho-Oh already gets very annoyed by Knock Off, that's your last concern with Yveltal

NDAG is a very different meta to say the least, the different meta trends reward and punish different things

[distant hearth]

...Primal Kyogre and Yveltal

[umbral anvil]

lemme build a double orb team

[low juniper]

ye u right nvm keep acid spray

[umbral anvil]

the necrozma dm turning into ultranecrozma and vaporizing arc

[low juniper]

+1 252+ SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma-Ultra: 313-369 (90.7 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

[solemn zodiac]

u are arceus so u probably live whatever it clicks LOL

[low juniper]

^

[solemn zodiac]

unless if its somehow already ultra and then clicks z on u

[low juniper]

ye if thats the case u shouldve gone yveltal

[umbral anvil]

okay good odds

i'll take that

[umbral anvil]

true but sometimes you ko a mon at the wrong time and it sets up on your face

okay https://pokepast.es/3c1a0cffa110a301

how's this

• is alo really not good in this format

• wait up why are both the primals defensive 😭

does this even work 😭

[distant hearth]

Zygarde-C is illegal in the teambuilder, it has to start off as Zygarde-50% (same way you can't directly have UNecro in the builder and have to clarify whether it starts as NDM or NDW)
Alomomola is good, but doesn't really suit this team, plus it's been on a decline out of the rising trend of Sticky Web doing no favors to Alomomola teams
Both primals check different things, it's not too out of the ordinary

[umbral anvil]

okay so the team isnt that bad?

[distant hearth]

With the reworks it's much better now IMO

[umbral anvil]

yeah sticky webs are problematic, so i see the taunt

yessir

i will try it out

also does arc-ground fit in this team

[distant hearth]

Arc-Ground is mostly seen in offense these days, and it faces competition with regular Arceus anyways, so I'd lean against it if you ask me

[umbral anvil]

allrighty

time to test

[low juniper]

Switch thunder with Ice beam on pyogre

Also defensive pyohre is less "defensive" and more "bulky setup mon"

Name is a bit misleading it doesn't check that much

[umbral anvil]

opposing pogre ...

i thought

[low juniper]

True but its better than being weak to dragons

Like etern

And girao

And mmence to an extent

[umbral anvil]

whoa true

also 1 more issue that is flying types vs zygarde

[low juniper]

Thousand arrows

Hits flying type

Don't use substitute with defensive zygarde either

Use glare or Dragon tail instead

Sub doesn't rlly help with what zyg is trying to do (beat physical attackers like marshadow and mega salamence and pdon)

[umbral anvil]

yeah thats why i ran toxic dtail arrows

tho sub helps

against status pdon

the set ur suggesting is dtail arrows coil glare?

or rest

[low juniper]

Coil arrows glare/dtail rest

U need rest

[umbral anvil]

yep

[low juniper]

Zyg and especially zyg-c are so bulky they can afford to wait the sleep turns

[umbral anvil]

yes

lemme try 1 game with this

got heavily annoyed by a smeargle, got almost swept by last respects bascu and parahaxed by nuzzle

hey win is win

won game 2 easily as the chad pdon tanks zacians cc at 8 % !

game 3 won

some goofy eternatus set

z - eternamax beam

easily countered by fez

im so impressed

might just hit top 500

game 4 lost

got kingambit'd

screens sableye is crazy too

won game 5 goofy gen 4 leggie team

[umbral anvil]

1 more win for top 500

lets go.

we there yesssir

thanks everyone

team works great

[naive plover]

NatDex Doubles Rain Team
https://pokepast.es/5feb360b009488fd

[distant hearth]

Please be sure next time to flag the tier that it's for in the paste so that Chatot the bot may automatically ping the pertinent raters for an smoother experience
For now I'll just do it manually, but please keep that in mind
@simple stag @strange knoll @upbeat beacon

[upbeat beacon]

Scizor is usually the mega of choice for rain, so that's fine. However, you are not using the best rain abusers of this tier. I highly recommend using mons like scarf dracovish, swift swim basculegion, or achaludon; their sets are available in the strategy dex. I also recommend putting eject button on pelipper since its only job is to set up rain and move aside for another rain abuser. Most players also use tornadus as a secondary rain setter thanks to its prankster ability.

[naive plover]

Who shld I replace or put on the team?

[upbeat beacon]

I would recommend using Basculegion or Dracovish > Barraskewda and Archaludon > Kingdra. Rilla is fine for the metagame, but not ideal when Rain wants to deal with Sun or Ferrothorn. Garchomp is not that great either. For those two, I recommend using Tornadus and Chien-Pao instead.

Here is a team that you could use based on my recommendations: https://pokepast.es/d58c7fcaca321c41

[grand spear]

NDMono Fighting. Feels weak against glim leads
https://pokepast.es/52487778c258fbc4

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @atomic salmon, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[worthy fjord]

Is it just meow or being weak to glim leads literally doesnt matter anyway since sneaker can just remove tspikes later