#NatDex Other Tiers

1 messages · Page 11 of 1

vocal stump
solemn zodiac
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do you really need double defog

vocal stump
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frogsc
** ** ok i be deleting it

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but wh⭕m

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man everyone is leave no one give me real zacian counter 😔

low juniper
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Aka Primal groudon

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Idk what giratina does here just replace that with Groudon

distant hearth
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PDon is required here to not be weak to Eternatus or Primal Kyogre, I'd think, as said above
In any case the Arc-Water set should be adjusted to not be weak to PDon (could go for Earth Power over Refresh), namely as the rest of the team can't properly handle it for it

vocal stump
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ok thank you 👌

tropic scroll
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if u want to run refresh arc

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u specifically need something to poison pdon

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aka shuca berry etern

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like

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thats the only way u can run mono judge arc water in this tier

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maybe somethinc like pogre + zac can work but meh im not fully convincrd

vocal stump
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ok i be doing thar when i get homej

crimson obsidian
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offensive pogre probably works, but fitting on a team alongside recover / refesh arc-w seems like it is asking to get blown up by ho

vocal stump
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true.. Tbh arceus water is a fraud imma kick him

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he has done a net 0 of things and i forgot to put earth power on him as um

vocal stump
pearl scroll
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Y know arc water can beat Pdon right

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Pretty easily too

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Refresh toxic recover ice beam

tropic scroll
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That is

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missing the point

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the point was cm

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and that set is horrid anyways

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defensive waterceus is completely outshadowed by every other defensive arc form

pearl scroll
#

Oh

vocal stump
crimson obsidian
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I'd go calm mind or taunt on arceus fairy

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let me find the better ev spread

vocal stump
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👌 ok i be do that

crimson obsidian
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also you probably don't want both tera ground ho-oh and tera blast ground zac-c

vocal stump
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oh

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forgor

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what do

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for my birb

crimson obsidian
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could go thunder wave or ho-oh or whirlwind

vocal stump
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ok i be copy and paste that

crimson obsidian
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gl with it

vocal stump
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👍

crimson obsidian
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also could change zacian-c to tera fighting close combat

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but see how it goes

vocal stump
crimson obsidian
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tera poison on arceus fairy and it should be good

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tera water is ok, but avoiding sludge bomb poisons from eternatus while you set up is very nice

vocal stump
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ok i be change that

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||i lied tho i am not national ranked yaria||

crimson obsidian
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you can add a few evs to primal groudon to outspeed paralyzed zacian-c if you want

vocal stump
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oh

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i forgor to exist ill try thatj

pearl scroll
vocal stump
tropic scroll
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we dont rate non competitive / meme teams

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@kind hedge

kind hedge
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oh sad 😔
i'd say it's on the border but i get u

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so uhh do i just delete it or?

tropic scroll
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its completely unserious, ferro and glimm are the only viable mons here

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yeah delete would be best

kind hedge
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bet

green elm
ivory sundial
leaden bolt
ivory sundial
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my bad

leaden bolt
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np

crimson obsidian
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Don't we do doubles here?

leaden bolt
steady cedar
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Funny team

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How can I improve it

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(Main strat is Serene Grace Sneasler and/or fluffy Chansey)

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(ND DOU)

gilded lark
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idk what to use for greninja

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and im not using life orb

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since they just switch out over and over

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with regenrator mons

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and i lose a mon for nothing

gilded lark
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and no i will not using choice scarf

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actually locks me into so many situations

hazy remnant
gilded lark
hazy remnant
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youre in the wrong thread

gilded lark
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oh-

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wait

hazy remnant
gilded lark
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isnt this natdex monotype too

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cuz im using it in monotype

hazy remnant
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i think so yes

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Oh it's monotype

gilded lark
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alr then im in the right thread then

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ye

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dark

distant hearth
gilded lark
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or him

distant hearth
gilded lark
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for greninjas held item

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thats all i really need

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im not using tyranitar

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incase i need to mega before

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all my mons are dead

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cuz otherwise

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thats just free chip damage for them

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and boost to other ground mons

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mega houndoom is the only other mega i could really think of using

gilded lark
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when hes weak to ground

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and i need a way to deal with grass types

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so i saw he had decent speed

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and enough bulk to atleast live one hit

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a non boosted one atleast

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so i could get the nasty plot off

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and do high neutral damage

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with dark pules

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get rid of grass with flame thrower

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and finally sludge bomb for pesky fairies and ogerpon

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also i doubt

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moltres is gonna live a super effective hit

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espicially when hazards are so popular

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and the z move lets me take down sweepers and bug and fighting types

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both super effective against

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dark

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and still does high neutral damage with dark pulse

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so all i really need is a good suggestion for greninjas held item

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that isnt life orb or scarf

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cuz like they keep poisoining him and using hazards so focus sash becomes useless

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all i could really think of was the berry

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as a way to check iron boulder

gilded lark
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he really hasnt done much besides some damage here and there

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or just a scarifice really

distant hearth
# gilded lark thats just free chip damage for them

The chip damage also applies to the other team, and given TTar itself is immune it's a net positive as overall the other team in normal circumstances takes more chip than your own, if you were facing a Ground team you can just use Meowscarada and Hydreigon to blow holes
Also reminder that megas aren't mandatory to use on a team, viable teams can often skip using one
G-Moltres has rather high special bulk, bring it on stuff like Rotom-W to get a cheap boost
You could always try Greninja with Life Orb, but the team composition it's on isn't too favorable for it, hence why I suggested using a sample, as to fix that quite a lot of rework would likely be needed

gilded lark
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but also

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the grimsnarl man

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it needs thunder wave

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to cripple the sweepers

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also i quite like using g moltres z move

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its just good

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hydreigon fighting doesnt do much for me

distant hearth
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With Scarf Meowscarada and multiple bulky mons to ease disfavorable matchups Thunder Wave isn't that mandatory, especially as on screens your priority is more on just withstanding hits
If you want to use a particular mon more, I would suggest to first select one first, then build again to minimize the disfavorable matchups, your original team simply requires way too much of a rework to the point it may as well be another team as said before

gilded lark
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hm alright

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ig il try out the team for now

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if it doesnt work for me

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ig il just build around greninja and houndoom

distant hearth
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I would suggest to just use another tier for M-Houndoom, it's good in NDRU, for example

gilded lark
distant hearth
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M-Gyarados isn't allowed in mono Dark (base forme isn't Dark)

gilded lark
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ig il switch to mono water then

spare idol
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straightforward webs

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i dont even wanna bother with complex strats or mons

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just turn brain off and kill type beat

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also ndubers of course

pearl scroll
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can sink momentum unless you are some prediction god

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Arc normal or arc ground is prolly better here

distant hearth
# spare idol https://pokepast.es/fbe50df7e78426a1

Should use Fire Blast over Flamethrower on Eternatus as +1 Fire Blast OHKOs Zacian-C
Moody is also far more viable on Smeargle than Own Tempo as it can potentially grant a boost on Speed to ease the lead matchup by hindering foes more, also could afford Mortal Spin over Rapid Spin as Steel-types aren't common in the metagame, and the few ones that do exist like Zacian-C are practically invalidated with Nuzzle
U-turn Yveltal in offense is also unlikely to see much proper use in practice as switching out can consume momentum quickly, would recommend to just use the standard specially offensive set in the dex here, especially so it can Taunt hazard removers to keep Sticky Web up
I also agree with Pigbeeef regarding another Arceus forme being more desirable here, especially given the desire of making the team as simple to use as possible,

frank basin
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could this team be viable in natdex doubles?

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and are there any changes i could make to improve it?

pallid oriole
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also i prefer flamethrower personally

low juniper
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fire blast is almost objectively better

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thrower does shit dmg without tera fire

pallid oriole
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run modest

low juniper
crimson obsidian
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What is wrong w moody smeargle?

pallid oriole
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rng

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the benifits arent reliable or that good. imo youre better off just using technician, its more reliable

hazy remnant
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technician is crazy 😭 the benefits of moody outweigh the rng nature

pallid oriole
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i prefer to mazimise control

distant hearth
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Worst that can happen with Moody is losing Speed, on a mon that's outsped by everything but hard stall mons or Trick Room mons (which shouldn't be something to just bring Smeargle to lead on such matchups anyways)
It's basically a 20% chance to just outspeed the entire unboosted metagame after a turn

spare idol
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Mostly because of inconsistency

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also rapid spin for potential bad matchup against grounds since I'm already applying hazards

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And in high ladder most smeargles are expected to run tera steel

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and low ladder most people don't even care

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Like imagine I get a nuzzle off against a lead arc or something and get a speed drop

spare idol
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something something own tempo something

distant hearth
# spare idol Mostly because of inconsistency

An inconsistency with no real net negative is better than a waste of an ability slot, this is like complaining about Scald's burn chance not being ensured and thus picking Water Gun as it's a filler option that does not have a risk by having no real benefit (aka, chance to burn) to begin with

tropic scroll
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The arc point is valid

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its the biggest reason why moody is not as good

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its not just a net neutral at minimum

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the moody interactions w speed r fairly limited anyways in terms of value

distant hearth
# tropic scroll The arc point is valid

...thing is Smeargle still outspeeds a paralyzed Arceus even if it's -1 Speed after a Moody, unless it's fully invested, but only Arceus-Ground runs that kind of spread, which is immune to Nuzzle anyways

tropic scroll
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not max

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which is the most popular arc fairy spread, and decently popular for dark too

tropic scroll
distant hearth
tropic scroll
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a lot of the pl teams used max / near max, including some of the samples

tropic scroll
#

which is the most popular spread

distant hearth
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In particular I was thinking of EKiller, which is even slower on that regard, but yeah, if max spreads are becoming a trend that's a topic of its own

tropic scroll
gilded lark
#

any idea on who i should give a z move on this list

gilded lark
distant hearth
# gilded lark https://pokepast.es/099f5312da9aad96

You do not need a Z-Move to make a viable team
Also you'd want Protean over Battle Bond on Greninja here, that ability is quite powerful in a Monotype context, and alongside Specs it can help a lot in several matchups
Liquidation would also be better on M-Swampert than Waterfall out of the higher BP
Tailwind is unviable in singles, you'd want a more standard Pelipper set with Heavy-Duty Boots, Roost and Hurricane over Tailwind and Toxic to ease longevity and minimize passivity, especially to ease the matchup against Grass-types, I'd also be obligated to ask what the EV spread does as it's non-standard
Urshifu also seems somewhat redundant with Barraskewda, to ease the pivoting of Pelipper and M-Swampert it may be desirable to have a sturdier defensive core by replacing it with Toxapex or Empoleon depending on preference in certain matchups

gilded lark
distant hearth
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...You have two Swift Swim Pokemon that already outspeed the entire unboosted metagame after rain

gilded lark
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like an air balloon heatran or smt

distant hearth
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Just use Flip Turn then go to a defensive Pokemon then repeat in such scenarios

gilded lark
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thats not really fun to do

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but yeah a regenarator

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mon

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would be best

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wouldnt it

distant hearth
gilded lark
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it just feels scummy

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to use regenarator or stall teams

distant hearth
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Regen is held back by entry hazards, if the opponent can't break it it's their skill issue

gilded lark
spare idol
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k im swapping to moody

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also which arc should i use

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i kinda fw ghost

spare idol
distant hearth
# spare idol also which arc should i use

If anything I feel the team could do far better with Ultra DD Necrozma-DM than an Arceus forme here
Eases a lot the matchup against Ice coverage considering half of your team is weak to that

gilded lark
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got me to 1367 elo in about 13 matches cant go much higher then that

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done about 10 more matches with it since then

pallid oriole
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whatever format this is, i doubt it is viable

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your entire team folds to a fairy type

gilded lark
gilded lark
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with roaring

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or dragonite

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with tera normal

pallid oriole
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this is a great resource for teambuilding

gilded lark
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theres a reason why most of it is mono dragon

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anywho back to beating up people

gilded lark
gilded lark
distant hearth
# gilded lark https://pokepast.es/2cc7bc13c24fe7ac

Your team seems to have barely any defensive core at all, in particular Archaludon is lacking here as there's no real switch-in to specially offensive Fairy-types, would suggest to test out with this sample team instead, it's a similar structure that replaces the sweeper spam for a team structure that can't afford it (no Sticky Web support really hinders this kind of teams), with a more balanced defensive core and Speed control to have a better matchup against a good portion of the metagame
https://pokepast.es/a6c34ad6a23cf49c

gilded lark
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it was wishful thinking honestly

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fairy is just far too easy to get access to

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if fairy wasnt immune to dragon

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it could work

green elm
sonic sleet
gilded lark
gilded lark
gilded lark
crimson obsidian
#

Id highly recommend taking a look at the resources available as Kyurem-B is the only Mon that is running a viable set

gilded lark
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i havent messed with the teras yet much

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ngl this team feels very intimidate spammable

crimson obsidian
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Clylizar and ogerpon are considered unviable and chien pao doesn't really fit on HO. Also you should use Ultra Necrozma and stone edge over waterfall on Arceus ground

gilded lark
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become a massive fan of it lately

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as for ogerpon

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i dont know what to replace him with

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also

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i dont like the fact i have to gamble with stone edge

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so i will not be using that when a safer option is just lying there

gilded lark
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AH SHI

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WAIT

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IM IN THE WRONG

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ugh nvm

crimson obsidian
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If you want to build around something I can help you with that later

drowsy prawn
hazy remnant
icy skiff
tropic scroll
#

paste is invalid

icy skiff
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Here myb idk why it does that sometimes

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Tera is banned in NdUbers, yeah?

tropic scroll
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No

icy skiff
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Alr

tropic scroll
#

anws screenss is not that good and that just looks like a worse version of a standard webs or deo lead team

icy skiff
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Ig I could go webs

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What should the last slot be tho

tropic scroll
#

usee this

icy skiff
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I'm kinda crap at using non-ekiller Arceus and Chi-Yu

tropic scroll
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its simple

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chi yu outspeeds everything in webs and punishes every passive team/mon

icy skiff
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Can I use tblast-fairy on Groundceus

tropic scroll
#

that groundceus is moreso for utility to check stuff like pdon and zacian but vs teams with dd zyg / no giratina or hooh

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it wins

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No

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Why

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oh

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over hwish

icy skiff
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Idk Ground/Fairy seems kinda nice

tropic scroll
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Ye ur gna do 0 damage to gira or zygarde

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dont waste ur time

icy skiff
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Goddamn it's that bad 😭

tropic scroll
#

just hwish

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dont be afraid to click thaf move

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in webs

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momentum is everything

icy skiff
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Alr

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True

tropic scroll
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u hwish on the gira fogging

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bring in a healthy yvel fot free

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now they cant defog the webs and u force more damage/the kill

icy skiff
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Yh

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Js one thing tho

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Can I try using Ndm over Eternatus

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I'm kinda better at using Ndm than Eternatus (in S/V Ubers at least)

tropic scroll
#

etern is broken on webs

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u click beam u kill everything

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oh go tera dragon on it too

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extra broken

icy skiff
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Alr

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Is Water Spout Kyogre not good anymore?

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On webs?

low juniper
icy skiff
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True

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But the Water Spout nukes feels satisfying

pearl scroll
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And chip damage go brrrr

icy skiff
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True

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But when you actually get off a full hp Spout, it's rewarding asf

gilded lark
#

@distant hearth do u think that could work on the cyclizar team

image.png
#

idk what the evs should be

low juniper
#

No

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First ekiller to do 0 damage

gilded lark
low juniper
gilded lark
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and clean

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up the

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things

gilded lark
low juniper
#

U cant act as a wall without recovery

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And ekiller being mono normal means it walls nothing

gilded lark
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then what do u suggest

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cuz i need smt to clean

low juniper
#

Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Tera Type: Ghost
Adamant Nature

  • Swords Dance
  • Extreme Speed
  • Shadow Claw
  • Taunt
gilded lark
#

hes the best thing that comes to mind

gilded lark
low juniper
#

A way better cleaner

gilded lark
#

i already have more then enough damage on my team

gilded lark
low juniper
gilded lark
#

BRO

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HAZARDS

low juniper
#

So what lmao

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Without scarf or life orb

gilded lark
#

omg

low juniper
#

U do no damage

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Also relax lol

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Cyc has rapid spin anyways

gilded lark
#

like that

low juniper
#

And if ur late game cleaning hazard dmg doesn't even matter that much

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Ur acting like it's sweeping

gilded lark
#

toxic

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spikes

low juniper
#

Just run etern then

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If u hate hazards that much u can run recover asw

low juniper
#

To anythijg

gilded lark
#

ive used him before

low juniper
#

Send team

gilded lark
#

he usually gets his sub cleared turn one

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also i need a normal type

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to stop spectral thief

low juniper
# gilded lark https://pokepast.es/2018c3fadd2a2823

Make cyc tera ghost or steel so ekiller can't espeed u once and force u to use uturn instead of shed tail

Make lunala calm mind cuz not running that almost kills the niche (cm lunala is almost unkillable for mons like glimmora smeargle and defensive etern)

Unecro is a bit meh here and pairing it with yvel and lunala makes the team kinda weak to calm mind darkceus ur better off using smth else

Id say utility SD pdon cuz the team has no hazards which sucks

#

Oh unecro also sucks if ur using sunsteel

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Don't use sunsteel on unecro

gilded lark
low juniper
gilded lark
#

im not gonna use stone edge

low juniper
#

Why

gilded lark
#

if it misses im cooked

low juniper
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Bruh

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Just gamble lol

gilded lark
#

NO

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WHY ARE U PEOPLE SO OBSSESED WITH GAMBLING

low juniper
#

It's not that bad dewd

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Would rather use sedge than do nothing with sunsteel tbh

gilded lark
#

steel coverage is still handy

gilded lark
low juniper
#

(Fairceus)

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Which pdon also beats

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And it can come into pyogre

gilded lark
#

so

low juniper
#

Which this team kinda hates

gilded lark
#

u want me to set up sweep

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with

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pdon

low juniper
#

And set hazards

low juniper
#

Break

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Pdon can't sweep reliably

gilded lark
#

il try out the team for now

low juniper
#

Shed tail

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Is like a C- strat

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So don't expect to win lol

gilded lark
#

il win

low juniper
#

It only shines vs HO

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Against balance and BO it's kinda mid

gilded lark
#

also can u send me a better defensive normal arc set

image.png
#

otherwise il just have to keep using this

low juniper
#

Cuz marsh eats it alive

gilded lark
#

stops spectral thief tho

low juniper
#

So

gilded lark
#

which can become a huge problem

low juniper
#

Zyg outspeeds and yvel can eat spectral

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Lunala can just tera and kill marsh

gilded lark
#

okay what do u suggest for me to use then

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cuz i need a cleaner

low juniper
gilded lark
low juniper
#

Ok have fun then

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With ur

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0 damage ekiller

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Ekiller which doesn't even appreciate shed tail either

gilded lark
#

il use eterna

#

which set

low juniper
# gilded lark which set

Eternatus @ Power Herb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Fairy
Timid Nature

  • Recover / Sludge Bomb
  • Meteor Beam
  • Dynamax Cannon
  • Fire Blast
gilded lark
low juniper
gilded lark
#

ima switch out fire blast for flamethrower

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since theres a chance i could lose a game from that chance

low juniper
# gilded lark ima switch out fire blast for flamethrower

Dont...

+1 252 SpA Eternatus Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 344-406 (105.8 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Eternatus Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 282-334 (86.7 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

#

Chances of ur low rolling are higher than the chances to miss with fblast

gilded lark
gilded lark
gilded lark
distant hearth
#

Chien-Pao is a balance mon, it doesn't suit offense as its longevity (aka, vulnerability to hazards and bulk) on its own is too terrible to sweep consistently

gilded lark
tropic scroll
gilded lark
#

i know

gilded lark
#

@distant hearth primal kyogre?

image.png
last river
gilded lark
#

what if i switch out pdon

#

for a sticky web guy

distant hearth
#

Would be best here TBH, then you could swap Ho-Oh for Yveltal, Palkia-O for Eternatus, and Chien-Pao for Marshadow, Arceus or Necrozma-DM

gilded lark
#

im not really keen

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on switching out ho oh for

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yveltal

distant hearth
#

Yveltal is very valuable in Sticky Web teams as it can block Defog with Taunt while also having longevity and stallbreaking potential

gilded lark
#

but i need a rapid spinner then

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cuz what if they sticky web me

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also which set for yveltal

distant hearth
#

This is why Smeargle is the main Sticky Web setter these days, it can apply pressure with Sticky Web, Mortal Spin and Nuzzle

The standard specially offensive one

gilded lark
#

yeah uh

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zygarde destroys his whole stick tho

gilded lark
#

taunt?

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as the last move

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or is it baton pass

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cuz moody

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theres also spore

distant hearth
#

Baton Pass is banned
The last move nowadays is Perish Song to avoid being setup fodder on stuff like Substitute Zygarde

gilded lark
#

i forgot that goes through sub

gilded lark
#

or is it banned

distant hearth
#

Sticky Web / Mortal Spin / Nuzzle or Spore (up to preference on matchups) / Perish Song
Nuzzle does ease setting Sticky Web more in the mid-game against foes with Taunt

gilded lark
#

hes gonna be my lead

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im not gonna keep him alive

#

unless he gets dragon tailed or smt

distant hearth
#

Yeah, but sometimes it isn't wise to lead with something that is easy to invalidate early-game, for example against a lead Mega Diancie

gilded lark
#

i have not seen a single mega diancie

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in ndubers

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and i do like

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200 hundo matches

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per day

distant hearth
#

A more common case are Taunt users like Deoxys-S, Yveltal, and Arceus-Dark

gilded lark
#

but if they really do that

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il just mortal spin them

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not too much to worry bout

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only real concern

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is necro

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or zam

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but then again

#

i can just spore

gilded lark
#

eternatus is obv just meteor beam set

#

marshadow is obv aswell

#

idk what set to pick for yveltal or necrozma tho

#

btw theres a bit of a problem

#

with picking marshadow

#

since i end up becoming super weak to dark again

gilded lark
#

i might just keep chien pao

#

since marshadow would make me way too weak

#

to dark

#

n cuz u havent said anything bout it yet

distant hearth
#

Sorry, had to leave for a bit
If you're so worried about Chien-Pao just fit Chi-Yu instead, it's really powerful in webs

crimson obsidian
#

^ chi yu is arguably the best webs mon

pallid oriole
gilded lark
#

have any priorty moves

#

cuz this is just shaping up to be another hyper offense

#

with hazards

#

and those are quite need on a hyper offense team

pallid oriole
#

my advice for a webs team is web setter, yveltal, ekiller, zekrom or unecrozma, chi-yu etern or pogre, and any of the previous mon or ray, zac, or kyurem-b

crimson obsidian
#

Ngl I would rarely recommend Zekron to anyone asking for advice

gilded lark
#

yea

#

zekrom is kind of bad ngl

pallid oriole
#

id say go unec then

#

its amazing on ho

crimson obsidian
#

It isn't great, but also isn't bad

#

Well it's kinda bad, viable though

#

It is very inconsistent

gilded lark
gilded lark
#

im using zyg

#

on the team

pallid oriole
#

thats

#

certainly a choice

gilded lark
#

yeah i know

#

i just like his tankiness

#

d dance set

pallid oriole
#

id say it can slot in the last slot i mentioned, thats where i usually put my shitmon

low juniper
gilded lark
#

why would i want ekiller

#

when i have yveltal tho

low juniper
#

Why wouldn't u

low juniper
gilded lark
#

its priority

low juniper
#

Yvel is more than that

gilded lark
#

why would i want two priority mons

gilded lark
pallid oriole
#

i usually drop sucker for knock off

low juniper
#

^

#

Ekiller likes yvel anyways

#

Cuz it helps break thru pdon zyg and girao

gilded lark
#

okay cool

#

but i wanna use zac alongside zyg

#

so i need to drop someone

pallid oriole
#

what is the team so far?

gilded lark
crimson obsidian
#

Not really a fan of DD zyg on webs

pallid oriole
#

id say yvel, rayquaza, and chi-yu

gilded lark
#

on mons

#

then the phys ice moves

pallid oriole
#

its more that zyg struggles to provide enough pressure to keep webs up

crimson obsidian
#

It's more zyg just doesn't benefit from webs that much

pallid oriole
#

that too

crimson obsidian
#

That as well

gilded lark
low juniper
#

Dd zyg is a BO mon

#

Not HO

crimson obsidian
#

Also ngl the only common non stab ice moves should be pogre running ice beam

low juniper
#

Better off using arcsus ground

gilded lark
#

when ur climbing ladder

#

u will see far more then just him using it

crimson obsidian
#

I said should

distant hearth
#

Yeah, but that's ladder
If you want an anti-ladder team look for some balance with Taunt Arceus-Dark

crimson obsidian
#

If people want to run ice beam on their Arceus just enjoy it

#

Because it makes nearly every Arceus forme worse in a tera meta

pallid oriole
#

webs isnt the best anti ladder because people will go to ridiculous lengths to get rid of hazards.

#

i

#

i would know

gilded lark
#

with the set ive built for smeargle?

#

yes

#

yes it is

#

people will quit three moves into the game

#

with this

#

guy as the lead

crimson obsidian
#

That is standard smeargle

gilded lark
#

most people dont run perish tho

pallid oriole
#

id say the best anti ladder strat is mbeam etern

gilded lark
crimson obsidian
#

I have not laddered in ages, but perish song is quite common

gilded lark
#

nope

#

it isnt

#

one out of every 20 smeargles i fight

#

has it

crimson obsidian
#

At high ladder it is close to or a majority of smeargle

gilded lark
#

at low to mid ladder

#

it is not

#

high maybe

distant hearth
#

Rates assume you're facing competent teams and opponents as that's the proper metagame
Building specifically for ladder is quite beyond here as that's very variable and you can't cover every cheese strat in the planet, but by nature they're more inconsistent anyways

crimson obsidian
#

If you're running a decent team you should be at high ladder with the state of this ladder

#

But if I was going to do anti ladder stuff the team would have ditto somewhere

gilded lark
#

in ag

crimson obsidian
#

Ok, well if you use a real team you'll easily get that on this ladder

gilded lark
#

tho i also just build teams for fun

crimson obsidian
#

You can do both at the same time

gilded lark
#

got me to near that elo

#

was 15 elo off it

#

then i got stuck in that loop of repeaters again

#

and fell back down

#

and fully gave up on it

gilded lark
#

instead of like

#

mega sal

#

he gets iron head

#

which covers his fairy weakness

#

and ice

crimson obsidian
#

Neither should run that. Their whole thing is blasting through stuff with flying stab

#
  • something for steels
gilded lark
#

quake

#

oh ray

#

is cuz

#

of

#

pdon pgore

gilded lark
#

just straight offense?

crimson obsidian
#

The specially offensive set on the dex

#

Taunt pulse wing and either sucker or knock

gilded lark
#

or is it the dark z set

crimson obsidian
#

it uses both

gilded lark
crimson obsidian
#

because it nukes all it needs w +2 black hole eclipse

#

and doesn't wear itself down

#

and saves tera for a teamate such as zacian-c or arceus

pallid oriole
#

addressing something you said here and something sami said at another time, perish song is not listed in the dex

crimson obsidian
#

yeah it will be added

gilded lark
gilded lark
crimson obsidian
#

though I feel quite justified for saying it should be a slash at the time

#

yes

gilded lark
#

it is added already

pallid oriole
#

HUH

gilded lark
#

i think

#

i swear i saw it as the third slash

crimson obsidian
#

+2 252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Yveltal: 501-589 (110.1 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

gilded lark
#

huh

crimson obsidian
#

oh bob did add it a while ago then when I requested

gilded lark
pallid oriole
gilded lark
#

why is it not added

#

yeah add perish song to that dude

crimson obsidian
#

+2 252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 104 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 385-454 (86.9 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

gilded lark
crimson obsidian
#

+2 252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 56 SpD Ho-Oh: 474-558 (114.2 - 134.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

gilded lark
#

oh

#

thought that was the z move

crimson obsidian
#

arceus fairy also tickles it back

#

so 2hkoing (likely ohko after rocks anyways) is fine

distant hearth
# gilded lark why is it not added

Multiple meta developments lately combined with the decent amount of changes to do for the analyses to keep up with the current metagame result on it being best to keep the next set of analyses updates until the next VR update IMO

crimson obsidian
#

with webs up chi yu doesn't have much in terms of defensive counterplay

gilded lark
#

rocks up tho

crimson obsidian
#

16 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chi-Yu: 130-154 (51.7 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

#

you're fine

gilded lark
#

aight aight

crimson obsidian
#

chi-yu has decentish special bulk

#

its issues are against offensive mons which is why it is limited to webs even if it is amazing on those

gilded lark
#

waut

#

wait

#

spa nature

#

or spe

crimson obsidian
#

55/120 will let survive most neutral hits

#

speed

gilded lark
#

just incase

#

gotta ask

pallid oriole
#

imo you should usually go spe for yvel

crimson obsidian
#

outspeeding yv is very important

#

modest is ok on some teams or to get some rolls

distant hearth
#

Yeah, Chi-Yu outspeeds Yveltal only by 1 base point, which is relevant as Yveltal is immune to Sticky Web

gilded lark
crimson obsidian
#

eh, yv has the same relationship w every other breaker

gilded lark
#

to have a mon outspeed u by 1

crimson obsidian
#

since they're pretty much all 90-97 speed

#

just remember that even if something isn't fast, if it is meant to be a wallbreaker all it really needs is 90+ speed

#

in this tier anyways

gilded lark
#

what bout ray

crimson obsidian
#

that is 95 speed

gilded lark
#

yes

#

okay cool team is done

#

il tell yall how it goes

low juniper
#

Send

gilded lark
low juniper
gilded lark
#

no

low juniper
#

Why not

#

Nuzzle is way better

#

Imo

gilded lark
#

sleeping them on the first turn

#

allows me to set up

low juniper
#

Para forever tho

gilded lark
#

the sticky web

low juniper
#

Fucks over support arc formes

gilded lark
#

bro

low juniper
#

And let's u get more done with smeargle

gilded lark
#

i have poison for a reason

#

mortal spin

low juniper
#

U dont mortal for poison u mortal to remove hazards

gilded lark
#

yes

#

its for both

#

spore is just better

low juniper
#

It really isn't but alr

gilded lark
#

okay

#

ima go finish my dailys in hsr while the servers restart

crimson obsidian
#

nuzzle is 100% better because it cant be taunted

gilded lark
#

in practice

#

prob no

#

oh well

#

if i find myself disagreeing with myself in the future il agree then

crimson obsidian
#

Feel free to do what you want, but there is a reason everyone here is telling you that nuzzle is better. That doesn't mean Spore is unviable, but it is signifcantly less consistent

pallid oriole
#

its more justifyable

#

both in terms of viablility and morality

gilded lark
#

i just got hit by taunts via five darkeus

#

in a row

#

switching to nuzzle now

crimson obsidian
#

yeah this is why

#

spore isn't used as much despite the upside

#
  • nuzzle means darceus won't outspeed chiyu and smeargle can still set webs with luck or later
gilded lark
#

OKAY

#

ARC

#

IS A PROBLEM

gilded lark
#

cannot

#

and i mean

#

cannot

#

handle

#

arc

crimson obsidian
#

What is the team? I thought it had Zac on it

gilded lark
#

have

#

cc

crimson obsidian
#

Well put cc on it then

gilded lark
crimson obsidian
#

Fighting

low juniper
#

Why do yall even have ray on that team

#

Surely u can slot in smth like tera ghost ekiller or ghostceus instead

gilded lark
#

he hasnt been very handy in the slightest

crimson obsidian
#

Ray ho is much better in tournament than on ladder

#

It struggles w cheese and tomfoolery

gilded lark
#

like tera ghost

#

or smt

low juniper
#

Idk up to u

#

Acc

#

U have chi yu

#

Use ekiller

#

Not ghostceus

gilded lark
#

okay

gilded lark
#

what is the extra 18 speed on ekiller for

low juniper
#

Outspeeds 252 primals without speed boosting nature (aka not Timid or jolly or hasty)

gilded lark
#

aight

gilded lark
crimson obsidian
#

congrats

gilded lark
#

was way too easy with this team

crimson obsidian
#

well yeah it is ladder and you're still in mid ladder

gilded lark
#

took very long tho-

#

cuz like

#

litearly everyone i fight is either

#

1500-1300

#

most of the time is the latter

#

so i only gain like 10 or so elo

#

each match

#

i beat bobi!

distant hearth
#

A solid team for sure

gilded lark
#

tho ik it was a prob a weak version of his team

gilded lark
#

kinda way too easy to climb ladder with this

#

also

#

ladder is dead dead

#

cuz ive feel like ive fought u multiple times now

#

more then it should probably happen

#

atleast

frail shore
#

Making a team around gengar and shed comp

gilded lark
#

IT GOT BURNED ;-;

#

AT THE STARTT

low juniper
#

altho barely anyone plays ndag nowadays so idk how good korai even is

frail shore
#

Its the only gm where I can acc use Pokemon I like

#

Like shed and mega gen

solemn zodiac
#

what does physdef yvel even do here

#

might as well make it spdef and pretend to check caly

#

nothing does either way

low juniper
#

But scarf korai RKs that anyways so ye go spdef

solemn zodiac
#

unecro unplayable mon anyways

#

loses to sucker yvel and scarf caly and ditto

#

and hard to setup in the first place bc of how batshit insane the offensive threats are

gilded lark
#

@distant hearth

#

melmetal is too much man

#

even if u sub

#

itl practically kill u

#

and if its in trick room\

#

which is guranteed

#

via hatterene

#

its almost impossible to win against this thing man

solemn zodiac
#

yes thats bc trick room is designed to matchup fish against hyper offense

#

theres no much you can do

#

besides switching to another playstyle

gilded lark
#

so i cant even set up

#

without the fear of losing

solemn zodiac
#

more bulky playstyles do very well against trick room

#

eg. balance

#

stall is an auto win but stall is terrible so lol

gilded lark
#

is prob my arc

#

followed by

#

zyg

#

arc does barely damage to him tho

solemn zodiac
#

as i said theres nothing much you can do against trick room as HO

gilded lark
#

and for zyg he has ice punch

solemn zodiac
#

you just have to accept you will lose to it

gilded lark
#

its genuinely kind of unfair

#

like how tf was i supposed to beat him-

image.png
#

ive also fought this exact guy like 8 times now

#

hes dropped me back to the 1500s

#

when i was near 1700s

#

legit infuriating

solemn zodiac
#

best course of action is load a different teamstyle

#

dont let the matchup fish team get the exact matchup it does extremely well on

gilded lark
#

i dont think he can win

#

its only my pure hos

#

i cant confidently use that team

#

in high to mid elo tho

#

since i can get f'd over

#

by just everything i think

#

priority and hazards f me over so bad with that team

low juniper
gilded lark
#

doesnt matters if its webs

low juniper
#

trick room counterteams HO

#

thats kinda why ppl like it

#

also cuz its braindead as fuck but thats another story

gilded lark
#

also magic bounce is bs

low juniper
#

tru

gilded lark
#

IT EVEN BOUNCES BACK TAUNT

#

HAZARDS I GET

low juniper
#

if u absolutely hate TR

#

but wanna use HO

#

use OTR ndm

#

that counterteams the fuck out of it

gilded lark
low juniper
#

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Solganium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Atk / 16 Def
Brave Nature

  • Trick Room
  • Swords Dance
  • Sunsteel Strike
  • Earthquake
low juniper
#

its not the greatest set

#

but

#

it bodies trick room

gilded lark
#

nah

low juniper
#

just lead NDM vs hatt
sd
then as hatt clicks healing then u click TR to remove it

gilded lark
#

im not tryna go after one singular person forever

low juniper
#

otr ndm does well vs opposing webs too but up to u ig

gilded lark
#

webs i can just counterplay

#

by using webs of my own

#

plus just outplaying them is easier

low juniper
#

ig

gilded lark
#

but it can work

gilded lark
#

i dont get why people run swagger marsh

low juniper
gilded lark
#

not really

#

they swaggered my zyg

low juniper
#

it is when u pull it off ngl

gilded lark
#

ngl out of the 50 times or so ive been swaggered

#

ive only gotten hit by the confusion

#

like 4 times

pallid oriole
#

its better when you hit it on switch

#

marshadow forces a lot of switches, which is nice

gilded lark
#

ehhhhh

#

ive only switched against him 9 times now

#

all of them were for arc

#

like to just switch into him

gilded lark
#

heehheheheheehe

#

I BEAT HIM

#

I BEAT ONE OF THOSE GUYS

distant hearth
#

You may want to show this stuff in the ND Ubers server (can link it if you want) as that no longer really pertains rating a team

gilded lark
dry ridgeBOT
distant hearth
gilded lark
#

thx

gilded lark
dry ridgeBOT
distant hearth
gilded lark
#

it says i need to verify three days later

#

i only bothered resistering in the smogon site just now

hybrid walrus
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

sonic summit
#

trade out the Keldeo for Hydrapple

#

Shao should also prob be like life orb or smth

#

a common issue mbeeteams face is the fact that all hazard removal is flawed in someway, which is no different for this team as u can't remove vs rocks clefable at all

#

don't run fell stinger tho its hella cheese, Pursuit gives it more reliable utility against shit like Iron Moth and Mega Latias

hybrid walrus
#

Magnet rise AND air balloon on magnezone?

#

Ig u can trap and kill drill that way?

#

I would say that seems matchup fishy but then again I'm using beedrill

sonic summit
#

its so u beat sand rush driller

#

fwiw idt Beedrill is a good mon for beginners because it creates matchup inconsistencies

#

it can work but u have little room for error

hybrid walrus
#

Feel like nd uu is not a very competitive tier anyway so I'm fine with that

#

Or rather it's not a popular tier

sonic summit
#

not popular is a better term

hybrid walrus
#

Yeah any tier can be competitive

#

Mb

#

Maybe except anything goes and pure hackmons

#

Feels like this still struggles against aegislash

#

Idk how well hydrapple checks aegi

#

Idk the calcs

sonic summit
#

u don't get KO'd unless its Ghostium-Z

#

EP ohkos in blade form

hybrid walrus
#

Oh nice

#

Would it be good to switch lu to drill

sonic summit
#

u lose the moth check which I dont like

hybrid walrus
#

Ok

gilded lark
#

any thoughts

hybrid walrus
#

Does from a draft nean draft league

gilded lark
#

and i just made a team from that

distant hearth
#

To be clear, is this for ND Doubles?

gilded lark
#

both

#

nd ou singles and doubles

hybrid walrus
#

This doesn't look like a doubles team

gilded lark
#

as i said both

#

my friend was gonna have me fight the other people in the server with the exact team in both singles and doubles

#

so i tried to make it as adaptable as possible

low juniper
#

Also arbitrary rules we can't even rate this properly

gilded lark
#

damn

low juniper
#

Unelss there's another thread just for drafts

#

Regardless no point sending if u aren't gna send ur whole draft or ur opps draft

gilded lark
#

true

gilded lark
low juniper
#

Not the best person to ask

gilded lark
#

aigh

hazy remnant
#

You'd have more luck in here

autumn frigate
crimson obsidian
#

What is the point in posting a team you know is bad to gloat about how bad it is?

low juniper
spare idol
junior trout
#

crobat seems rather suspect as a breaker

spare idol
#

all i can tell so far

#

is that nites gonna be one hella pain in the ass

junior trout
#

also dont love your dnite checks because once that sableye megas to gain bulk and leverage intim it probably doesn't take 2

spare idol
#

i mean i can always toss crobat in favor of koko then we would have a real team

#

but as Cimothy Jool says, every dog has its day.

junior trout
#

sableye is probably better as something like pecha or EE ghold, pecha isn't a great dnite check either though lets you leverage prank pshot to work more offensively while also checking other random annoyances like ogerpons

#

koko over crobat could work i suppose

spare idol
#

oh i like ee ghold

#

yeah im taking that

#

the rest is alright i assume

#

also this seems odd

image.png
#

should i use this or do some tweaks

junior trout
#

well there's still a few suspect things, you dont have a proper strong fire type switch-in given something like opposin tini and also struggle against random grasses/waters without pecha or some dragon like dnite, gag blissey over regen stunts its survability quite a bit as well

#

you can use ee with varying spreads, though zmoves/colbur are worth considering

spare idol
#

gag bliss does seems weirdchamp