#NatDex Other Tiers

1 messages · Page 9 of 1

wraith heron
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Is electro ball with +2 speed better than thunder?

worthy fjord
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Oh and if you want, I think you should really have M.Pinsir over someone (Forre? Maybe)

wraith heron
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But it's a bit frail to get the agility up

worthy fjord
worthy fjord
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But try it out

wraith heron
worthy fjord
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Oh right

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M.Sciz then?

wraith heron
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Instead of band?

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I have band sciz on the team

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Should galvantula be timid on agility set?

worthy fjord
worthy fjord
wraith heron
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Right, I tried with galvantula

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It's really bad

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Lol

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That thing is only good for webs

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What do u think about yanmega?

worthy fjord
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Use M.Pins at that point

wraith heron
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are there any good z move users in mono bug

ionic flicker
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Buzzwole and that's all I can think of

keen zephyr
analog burrow
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NatDex Double

Screenshot_2024-07-10-07-47-23-905_com.android.chrome-edit.jpg
sonic summit
#

!pokepaste

dry ridgeBOT
#

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

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lone hedge
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Can anyone help me to make mega gengar team

pearl scroll
lone hedge
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@pearl scroll But we can still play with friends

pearl scroll
lone hedge
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Can u name the channel?

hazy remnant
sonic summit
tropic scroll
low juniper
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can u stop adem

sonic summit
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you owe 50 euros

tropic scroll
low juniper
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sorry

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soryr

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good morning

tropic scroll
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gm.

sonic summit
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can u stop adem

tropic scroll
sonic summit
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sry for the confusion

sharp scroll
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either sash vika to set up agility or risk it with some other item

sharp scroll
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It threatens lando aswell

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And corviknight

sharp scroll
deep lance
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https://pokepast.es/ca743de0d2b2d58d I’m new to ND Gen 9 Ubers and I recently made this team, its doing pretty well so far but I would like to see how I can improve it. The team uses Gira and Zygarde to spread paralysis so kyogre and Groudon can wreak havoc. DDance Necrozma DM makes a good defensive core with Gira and can wallbreak as well as cleaning up with DDance. Zacian wall breaks as well to make progress

hazy remnant
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you may also have some problem against unecro if it’s set up other than rking with zacian or tanking with pdon

crimson obsidian
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I'm also unsure exactly what tera water on Giratina-O is for (I'm guessing primal kyogre)?

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This team would also heavily benefit from play rough on zacian-c since lo yveltal can cause this team a lot of issues

deep lance
crimson obsidian
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also i'm very confused about the pdon spread. I'm guessing it is to live ice beam from offensive primal kyogre after rocks as base don?

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I'm fairly sure that using an adamant nature would save some evs

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it is a jump point but 12 or 16+ hits the same attack

deep lance
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It’s for Xerneas but that’s gone now

crimson obsidian
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yeah, I was wondering about the speed tier b/c 284 is very uncommon

deep lance
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And outspeeding Zygarde C DDance variants

crimson obsidian
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I wouldn't worry too much about those since this pdon set isn't handling them at all even with the speed investment

deep lance
crimson obsidian
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sd / play rough / wild charge / cc

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I'd highly recommend using a different ndm set fwiw (the solg z set does fit on this sort of bo style team)

deep lance
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Is there any spreads for SV primal Groudon

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Smogon has nothing

crimson obsidian
distant hearth
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In general I'd avoid using vanilla Ubers spreads as that is a rather different metagame unless you know what you're doing (for example, some sets on the dex for NatDex Ubers are based on Gen 7 Ubers sets but revamped to fit into the metagame),

crimson obsidian
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This can also be a decent reference if you're looking for a specific role (you can click on the sprites and it'll link to a pokepaste)

sharp scroll
distant hearth
# sharp scroll ?

What tier is this team for?
The paste says it's for NDOU yet everything is legal in NDUU

sharp scroll
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Its for just natdex

low juniper
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There's more than one natdex

sharp scroll
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gen 9 natdex

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thats legit the name

solemn zodiac
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whys this for national dex OU (which is national dex in builder btw) and every mon is NDUU or lower

sharp scroll
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i dont like the ou mons

solemn zodiac
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then... go play ND lower tiers??

sharp scroll
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and

solemn zodiac
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it's not that hard

sharp scroll
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those tiers r boring-

solemn zodiac
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your team is made for NDOU atm

sharp scroll
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its more fun to fight against ou mons

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ywa i selected mons from uu and nubl

solemn zodiac
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if ur just gonna deny advice

sharp scroll
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k if i did play in lower tiers

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then what should i do

solemn zodiac
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you could ping the nd lower tier raters

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/raters

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well i cant do commands fsr but you can type that in

sharp scroll
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/raters

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?

solemn zodiac
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try to find the chatot command for it

vestal rune
tropic scroll
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this is the wrong channel

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theres a seperate one for natdex ou

sonic summit
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i'm the only one and I'm just gonna say right now that its a terrible team

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just scrap it and actually try to play the metagame properly instead of shoving 6 random mons on a team

low juniper
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wow hater

vestal rune
worthy fable
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

runic sage
# worthy fable Someone can rate my team ? https://pokepast.es/ad0c31b7a1aa6631

drop cobalion for great tusk, you need speed control so scarf the sneasler, the iron valiant movepool should be

tbolt, moonblast, ice punch, close combat with a expert belt or Life Orb. If you do want specs, it would be moonblast tbolt shadow ball close combat with a naive nature. pjab is also redundant coverage on breloom, better if you run sd or rock tomb there to hit flying.

kommoo needs drain punch, it doesnt need boomburst. iron head is fine if you want to hit fairies but other options are vacuum wave.
in terms of iron hands, av doesnt need fake out. thunder punch or volt switch is preferred here

worthy fable
runic sage
distant hearth
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Some types can afford having a chance against disfavorable type matchups, but Fighting isn't one of them

random bluff
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I'm a beginner, can anyone help me?

distant hearth
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There is no such thing as Gen 8 NatDex Ubers in the first place
Back then there was just NDAG

low juniper
dry ridgeBOT
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See rule 6 of #1030567099703242903 message

low juniper
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Also what bobsican said

random bluff
low juniper
sonic summit
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  • Gen 8 ND Ubers is not a format to begin with
low juniper
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unfort

random bluff
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yall think this team works better with zacian or kyogre, or any other mons that fit the team better

tropic scroll
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what are u yapping about

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that is literally a tier

pearl scroll
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:/

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Mb

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Tho I’d personally run more speed on arceus to speed creep adamant mega rayquaza

random bluff
pearl scroll
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Well first we need to figure out what kind of weaknesses this team has

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This team doesn’t like opposing Yvel too much from first glance

random bluff
pearl scroll
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Behemoth blade does double damage to dynamaxed targets

random bluff
pearl scroll
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Also

random bluff
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Yeah that’s true

pearl scroll
random bluff
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You think any moves or items should be change ?

pearl scroll
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/ heat wave

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And the team lacks a defensive check to mray to me

random bluff
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Zacian checks m ray no?

pearl scroll
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Not a defensive check

random bluff
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Heat wave on which mon

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Oh true

pearl scroll
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Earthquake easily cooks

random bluff
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What would you put heat wave on?

pearl scroll
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I was saying that yveltal cannot do much damage to zacian without heat wave or foul play

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And staying in is really risky

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You don’t have a problem with zacian right now with defensive Pdon and caly

random bluff
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Yeah I could switch yveltal for a more offensive but I think scarf works well with the team

pearl scroll
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But you might have problem with screens hyper offense

random bluff
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True kind of need taunt

pearl scroll
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Mega ray can plow through the entire team with a single boost

random bluff
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He the goat for a reason

pearl scroll
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Yeah hyper offense could cook

random bluff
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You think I keep v create on ray or eq better

random bluff
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a ditto could make the team better aswell tbh

pearl scroll
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You can if you need to nuke necrozma dusk mane

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But earthquake deals with primal groudon

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But this is mostly your choice

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Oh and v create allows you to nuke Skarmory

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Which is frequently used to deal with mray

random bluff
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yeah i think imma keep v create

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only problem im seeing is like you said d dance m ray kinda just sweeps the team

distant hearth
# random bluff https://pokepast.es/db6c591debcf51ce

Oh, Gen 8 NDAG, I played that meta for a good while
Zacian-C is better here as Intrepid Sword is dumb and Behemoth Blade lets it brute force past Dynamaxed stuff
You may consider Ditto over Yveltal to have a better check to snowballing Dynamaxed foes while also adding a safety net to random stuff per the nature of AG formats

pearl scroll
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Remember hazard removal

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Because mega ray doesn’t like to start at 75 hp when it come in

random bluff
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yeah i do think ditto would be good for the team but yveltal is kind of needed also

solemn zodiac
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or airstream into flare

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doesn't even need flare if its passed boosts by caly-s

random bluff
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thinking of switching arceus for ditto

solemn zodiac
random bluff
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nvm i just did the calc its still a 3hko against zacian

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foul play is the better move

devout panther
dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

low juniper
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404 page not found

sonic summit
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there's no way to improve this team and make it viable

devout panther
sonic summit
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Monotype in non-monotype tiers just suck ass in general

sonic summit
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with it being impossible to competitively optimize

devout panther
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ok thats fair

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ty for the info

sonic summit
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Theme teams like this are kinda the same thing

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i would just stick with Cloyster or Barbaracle and then support it with viable mons

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but stacking like this is just asking to lose to a good team tbh

sudden wolf
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can smo rate my ice monothreat team?

pearl scroll
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paste it

ivory delta
solemn zodiac
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this is really really bad

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none of your mons are improofed (imposter-proofed)

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all the sets are questionable

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and you have no functional defensive core

ivory delta
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yeah I figured

pearl scroll
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idk if its even viable in the first place

solemn zodiac
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pinsir isnt

pearl scroll
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and embody aspect doesnt even work lmao

solemn zodiac
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yeah ok lets get to breaking down every single thing

ivory delta
solemn zodiac
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palafin completely loses to any water (including imposter) which is a massive problem when dondozo/mega slowbro are very common physical walls

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strong jaw is bad cuz it only boosts rend and nothing else

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scarf is irrelevant with jet punch (and scarf is bad either way)

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imposter needs moves in the event you switch it into a transformed pokemon or something behind a sub

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as mentioned pinsir is just bad

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if i had to use it then i'd use aerilate

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w/ boots

ivory delta
solemn zodiac
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moldy or sor works

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tc doesn't boost glance

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mmx is hasty max spa for no reason (photon turns physical)

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and pigbeeef also mentioned embody aspect doesn't work (it's not unviable it just straight up doesnt work outside of ogerpon-tera)

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facade and multi-attack on gigas serves the same purpose, remove multi

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i'd be partial to just remove half the team for a functional defensive core to not instantly lose to any balance structure

ivory delta
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yeah that's fair
I try to run more offensive sets because I just don't like playing defensively, but if it's that flawed it makes sense
thanks for the tips

solemn zodiac
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hyper offense can work

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but not this way

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HO in bh (and for an extention NDBH) looks really different from regular tiers

ivory delta
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I'll try a pre-built set and then go from there ig

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thanks again

night monolith
# solemn zodiac pinsir isnt

Ninjask @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

  • Dragon Ascent
  • V-create
  • U-turn
  • i forgor
#

ask akira

solemn zodiac
tranquil trail
solemn zodiac
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g7

tranquil trail
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simply play it in ndbh

solemn zodiac
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the ndbh with huge shell smash

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(also stone axe is everywhere which is lol)

amber fiber
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can someone help make perfect build for the pokemon

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the pokemon itself arnt the change

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like moves ev spreads

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etc

solemn zodiac
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!nolegends

dry ridgeBOT
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See rule 6 of #1030567099703242903 message

low juniper
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completely unvuiable insta loses to pdon

amber fiber
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oh

solemn zodiac
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they arent willing to actually optimize it

amber fiber
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alr

ivory delta
tropic scroll
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its bad

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dracovish is unusable in a metagame where primal groudon is on 90% of teams

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sneasler is unviable and does nothing into half the tier

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zacc without sd is awful

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since it breaks nothing

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and the moment you lose your isword boost you literally break nothing

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sucker is bad on marsh since it hits nothing sneak does, and without bu you dont break anything

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the mence set is not that bad but dragon claw is redundant, and its a bit of a harder fit on ho teams over other dragons

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fake out does nothing on smeargle

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if you want to build a webs team id advise looking at other examples of hos and webs people have made on the forums

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and the viability ranking to see whats viable or not

low juniper
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Blah blah blah

sonic summit
pearl scroll
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I enjoyed the funny damage calcs

sonic summit
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what does it have over Life Orb

pearl scroll
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idk... i guess it cant :/

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well lets just imagine that its lorb

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anything else?

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and yes i did forget to change regen

ivory delta
pearl scroll
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you are on low ladder maybe thats why

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but we can all agree that getting curbed by the most used mon in the tier isnt good

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also why use sneasler when marshadow is right there? and yeah sneasler just get stopped by many of the bulky mons in the tier

ivory delta
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I changed my team, I added eternatus and groudon because they're usable for hyper offense

and then went from 1480 to 1200 like how

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this is the same reason I stopped playing bh, I used meta picks and lost more

pearl scroll
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ar are you just tilting

pearl scroll
ivory delta
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yeah I'm using double dance

pearl scroll
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that one is my favorite.

anyways, we will never know why unless we know how you played

ivory delta
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honestly I think I just need to calm down

since I'm all tilted at losing I'm playing worse and losing more

pearl scroll
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maybe its because of the rest of the team idk

low juniper
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Walled by etern and gira

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Big tera hog

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Frail as balls

sonic summit
low juniper
tropic scroll
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until u have a good grasp on teambuilding

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like these mons really arent usable or "less viable" they are straight up awful

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sneasler cannot do any damage to half the tier, dracovish cannot do any damage to the number one pokemon in the tier

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(and the number 2)

pearl scroll
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oh and eq does like 30 something assuming max attack

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while uninvested precipice blades does like 70 something back

tropic scroll
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I threw by getting my Sneasler Counter slept.

low juniper
distant hearth
tropic scroll
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sleep move ban is mickey

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js ban sleep

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do what natdex was too much of a bitch to do

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🙏

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ok wait i js realised

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thats basically the same thing

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Yes bob do that

sonic summit
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what tier is this even

runic abyss
#

nationaldex

sonic summit
runic abyss
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oh ok

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srry

civic swan
sonic summit
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aside from that there's no real way to optimize this for nduu

civic swan
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ah ok

sonic summit
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since all of these mons are beyond terrible sry

civic swan
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it's fine

tropic scroll
sonic summit
tropic scroll
noble radish
noble radish
solemn zodiac
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i also do not think lucario bundle and terapagos-s (with that set) are good

low juniper
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On this team

noble radish
solemn zodiac
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isn't his entire niche just

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rking xern

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and xerns gone now

low juniper
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But groundceus is a good teammate

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And pyogre

noble radish
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ok

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i just try and make teams with megas i like

pearl scroll
crimson obsidian
noble radish
#

i forgot to replace terapagos

crimson obsidian
#

I'd highly recommend giving this a read through

#

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-resources-thread.3712170/post-9564970 this as well (all the sprites are clickable)

Smogon Forums
Resource - National Dex Ubers Resources Thread

art by Gaboswampert

The goal of this resource is to showcase good teams that are easy to pick up and use on the ladder. This should aid players in familiarizing themselves with the current National Dex Ubers metagame. We will try to actively look over the sample teams and ensure that they stay...

#

when I say shitmon, generally if you're new to ndubers it is probably best to avoid more than one mon below b+/b other than a suicide lead (i.e. ribombee which I'm not entirel sure is viable tbh)

noble radish
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ok thanks

crimson obsidian
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Its np. If it was maybe one d mon (i.e. mega lucario) we can probably make it work on webs. But with half the team being unviable it is too much

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fwiw i'd generally recommend going with shuckle or smeargle if you want webs

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ribombee is interesting, and I said I'm not sure if it is viable or not because I do think it has some potential. Its niche is mainly denying webs

noble radish
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i hate dragon tail so much

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ive missed 3 times in a row

crimson obsidian
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accidently had marshadow as fighting

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also zygarde could be z or tera ground / water

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Generally if you're using a webs team you want to focus on maintaining offensive pressure so defensive primal groudon doesn't really fit

fathom ether
tropic scroll
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dracovish and base kyogre are both unusable due to the existence. of primal groudon

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you would be better offf just using prmal kyogre instead

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aero is also poor as a lead, there are much better options

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that ray set has 0 real damage output, and kind of defeats the point of using ray

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treads is a usable lead but the set your using literally does nothing except waste a team slot and some time

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you would need to remake this team entirely, i would advise you to check the HO teams in the bazaar + viability rankings to see whats actually usabke

fathom ether
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damn, my attempt with ray was airlock for weather control, fish bc funny and thank you for the advice

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also whats a bazar

tropic scroll
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you cant really switch into them that well

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is the issue

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and pdon always swaps out

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it doesnt want to take a tera flying band dragon ascent, especiallt if u have a zacian in the back

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oh and vish is stopped by tera water everything, eternatus, and i think waterceus too lol

fathom ether
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darn thank you very much, im remaking rn

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but is the zacian good?

tropic scroll
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zacian needs wild charge over either play rough or blade

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hooh is too everpresent and tera water things are also very common, especially zygarde (and dozo on stall at higher ladder)

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also you need a different tera type, probably fighting

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other than that, the zacian is fine ues

fathom ether
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could i use wake in a rain team or are there better alternatives

tropic scroll
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rain does not work

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weather in general does not work

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simply due to the existence of the primals

fathom ether
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So just dont try a weather team at all

tropic scroll
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ope

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Nope

fathom ether
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dang nammit

low juniper
fathom ether
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they used it in a video that i coppied, there was a ferrothron, a zygard and another mon that i forgot

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but im scrapping the weather and now tryna figure out what to do

still mesa
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primal groudon seems like a good mon

fathom ether
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aight ty

still mesa
crimson obsidian
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these would be good resources to take a look through

fathom ether
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thank youuu

noble radish
solemn belfry
#

We scream We bite and We definitely bonk.
This is my gen9Ubers natdex team

Screenshot_20240807_233504_Opera.jpg
solemn zodiac
#

one,

#

!pokepaste

dry ridgeBOT
#

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
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solemn zodiac
#

two, your evs and movesets are completely unoptimized

solemn belfry
solemn zodiac
#

trick room in ndubers is a playstyle with not much room for innovation

solemn belfry
#

Simply put it at that

pallid oriole
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why are you using trick room in natdex ubers if you arent using calyrex

crimson obsidian
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Yeah trick room is not a great playstyle, but it is slightly viable. Basically it is very good against hyper offence in general, but an auto loss v nearly anything else

solemn zodiac
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no caly-i tr is still bad but i get the logic

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i cant spel

crimson obsidian
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Right clicker is right. Trick room is very limited in structure. Melmetal is viable, but calyrex-i is the main reason to use trick room

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Trick room normally has 3 setters and 3 abusers. The 'best' Trick Room team would be hatterene/arceus/lunala/calyrex-i/primal groudon/primal kyogre

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melmetal is viable, but should be paired with cresselia over arceus

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If you like hitting hard I'd recommend trying a sticky web team as it is is also full of hard hitters, but a much better playstyle overall

pallid oriole
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wait

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he was running dracovish on trick room

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i guess you could call that

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a matchup fish

ivory delta
pallid oriole
#

full physical asault vest dragon claw yveltal is not something ive ever seen, but i havent played this format in like a month.

crimson obsidian
#

have you even touched the tera types? because everything seems to just be the default setting

pallid oriole
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i also dont know if z move shadow is a viable set

crimson obsidian
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I don't consider it one no

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generally with hyper offense you want a suicide lead to set some form of entry hazard

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there is a lot to be changed, but what are you most willing to drop?

pallid oriole
ivory delta
crimson obsidian
#

Well yveltal is a staple on HO, but it usually runs sucker punch and life orb

ivory delta
#

honestly that'd probably work better

if z move marshadow is unviable then what item do I run on it

pallid oriole
#

not sash

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usualy life orb or choice band

ivory delta
#

I've fallen into the trap of just slapping life orb on everything before lol
I can see how that would work better

crimson obsidian
#

On HO usually you'll see life orb bulk up

ivory delta
#

replace sucker with bulk up? I mean sneak already fills a priority niche

crimson obsidian
#

this is a good resource to take a look at

ivory delta
#

oh thanks

crimson obsidian
#

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-viability-rankings-update-6-at-post-231.3712169/ also the vr has links to the dex which gives some good info on sets and how to build with them

Smogon Forums
Resource - National Dex Ubers Viability Rankings [Update #6 at post...

art by Gaboswampert

Welcome to the official National Dex Ubers Viability Rankings thread. In this thread, we as a community will be ranking every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." You're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in National Dex...

#

also btw in the first link all of the sprites are clickable and link to a paste

ivory delta
#

honestly should've probably looked at this first lmao

crimson obsidian
#

its np. I'm happy to help build a team if you'd like. HO is pretty good and the mons you want to use fit on it. The sets are the issue

noble radish
#

how does rayquaza mega evolve?

sonic summit
noble radish
#

i just have to use it?

#

coz i tried and it didnt work

sonic summit
#

nd ubers has a mega rayquaza clause which bans it from mega evolving

noble radish
#

oh ok

sonic summit
#

only usable in AG formats

noble radish
#

thx

sonic summit
#

np but for future ref. these questions are better asked in #comp-general 👍

noble radish
#

ok

pallid oriole
#

how do I make linoone happen?

solemn zodiac
#

whys there lead deo-s in a team with cm fairy hooh goth

low juniper
#

why is hooh even here

pallid oriole
low juniper
#

just out offense

pallid oriole
#

ok

pallid oriole
solemn zodiac
#

you are pairing it w bad partners other than linoone and maybe pdon

#

all the mons i mentioned loses you the hazards from being passive

#

you don't want to be passive and let them remove hazards for free on HO

#

you want to constantly pressure them so that when they remove hazards they would be way behind on tempo

pallid oriole
#

thx, this advice is very useful

tropic scroll
pallid oriole
#

i just realised that it might have the most potential on stall teams, and i refuse to play stall.

tropic scroll
#

what

#

stall needs every mon on there

pallid oriole
#

playing against stall often forces you to bring out all of your team even before a pokemon faints. this means that stall is the most likely to be able to trap an aplicable mon with gothitelle

pearl scroll
#

there are lower tiers

#

go make it happen there

pallid oriole
#

eh, it has a niche. whether or not its a practical one, i am unsure. i have, at least temporarily, given up on it, but i wouldnt be surprised if someone else made progress with it.

#

but if nothing else, it is a funny strat that can give you funny clips

pearl scroll
#

if its on highladder maybe

#

but i bet if it does have a niche then its in a lower tier, where it would 100% do better

pallid oriole
#

its technically the most threatening sweeper in the game after one turn. you have to give up a third of your team in most matches for the chance of getting that turn.

pearl scroll
pallid oriole
#

+6 252+ Atk Tera Normal Linoone Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 288-339 (88.6 - 104.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

pearl scroll
#

also ghost types and ekiller

#

ekiller can pick you off

#

and finding setup isnt easy either

pallid oriole
pallid oriole
pearl scroll
pallid oriole
#

salac berry

pearl scroll
#

cant you just do this in a lower tier

pallid oriole
#

i dont play lower tiers

pearl scroll
#

+6 252+ Atk Tera Normal Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 112 Def Giratina-Origin: 398-470 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

pallid oriole
#

and it isnt funny or inovative

pearl scroll
pallid oriole
pearl scroll
#

then why not use it in a lower tier

#

also giratina-o

#

also finding setup is super hard

#

arceus judgment takes half of your attack

#

oh why did i forget necrozma dusk amne

#

mane'

pallid oriole
#

im not doing this because i like linoone im doing this for the sake of inovation

pearl scroll
#

+6 252+ Atk Tera Normal Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 256-303 (64.3 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

#

its not innovation if its outclassed

#

feels like that certain murkrow thing i saw

pallid oriole
#

no other mon threatens to go first and ohko as much pokemon after one turn

pallid oriole
pearl scroll
#

ofc not lmao

pallid oriole
#

you are speaking to THE murkrow guy

pearl scroll
#

and when i mean get to highladder, i meant with linoone

pearl scroll
#

anyways you have to get this thing behind screens, maybe a sub and maybe it can sweep

#

but

#

taunt

#

whirlwind

#

dragon tail if you lack a sub

#

roar

pallid oriole
#

thats why i have gothitelle

pearl scroll
#

zygarde can dragon tail

#

also glare can mess it up

#

wisp can mess it up

#

foul play takes it down to half

pallid oriole
#

no, you charm and reflect, then switch to linoone on the now weak pokemon

pearl scroll
#

giratina can tank even a +6 shadow claw

#

necrozma dusk mane can also do that

#

opposing hazards exist

#

maybe its not impossible but same could be said for other gimmicks

low juniper
#

Also this strat completely ignores special attacking pkmn

#

Or mixed pkmn like overheat pdon

pearl scroll
#

sami please help

low juniper
#

What

pearl scroll
#

this guy still thinks linoone has a niche

low juniper
#

K

pearl scroll
#

this isnt innovation this is just cope

low juniper
#

I mean hes totallly allowed to think that but

#

Idt its gonna convince anybody otherwise

pallid oriole
#

everything you people are saying i already know

#

i never claimed it was good

#

i dont even think its viable anymore

#

why are we still discussing this?

low juniper
#

Idk

pearl scroll
low juniper
pearl scroll
#

okie

bold warren
#

nat dex ag stall

#

i wanna keep kartana...

solemn zodiac
#

insta loses to any phys guy that gets past pex like pdon groundceus mray

#

ferro also isn't a stallmon

#

you also just lose to hazard stacking

#

and revivecats

sonic summit
#

who made this...?

solemn zodiac
#

it was passed to me in stallcord

#

idk the original builder

sonic summit
#

some goon probably

tropic scroll
tropic scroll
tropic scroll
#

but this isnt new

#

your not special using linoone here

#

and its not good either

pallid oriole
tropic scroll
#

taking from past examples, gholdengo being built and winning in ndfl last year

#

with tera it beats all the hazard removal + is a good wincon akin to cm rere arcs and can bypass a lot of its former checks

#

or say alo picking up usage since people realised how well it works on bulkier teams as a pivot to stuff like marsh while passing wishes to keep up pdon and gira o

#

these both are completely new discoveries (at the time) to natdex ubers, serve a role well, and work well

#

thus, innovation

#

taking a random shit mon and putting it on ho where it would be outclassed by literally everything isnt

pallid oriole
#

no, i mean what is the most threatening mon after one turn?

tropic scroll
#

oh

#

zacian i would say, after it gets a sd

#

if its positioned right then it can almost always claim a kill / multiple

#

unlike linoone

#

zacian can actually get a free turn lol

pallid oriole
#

if linoone gets off a belly drum, it will almost always just kill everything

tropic scroll
#

ok

#

where are u getting off a belly drum

#

on what

pallid oriole
#

with floober

#

trap a threat, charm and reflect, then switch to linoone

tropic scroll
#

what is it trapping

#

that will not immedietely invalidate linoone, even at -6 (if it can even get there)

#

keep in mind

#

u have nothing to enable free entry for goth

#

ok u somehow trap ndm, u get it to -6, linoone comes it gets twaved and gets revenged by whatever

#

u trap pdon, it either kills goth with oheat, and then linoone

#

or if its not running that, clicks rock tomb on linoone then it gets revenged by zacian or whatever

#

u trap zygarde, it just dtails your linoone or glares it, then same story

#

actually, speaking of zygarde

#

+6 252 Atk Tera Normal Linoone Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 374-440 (89 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

#

if pdon procs its 100% form it does nothing, so even worse

#

so what is this mystery mon that gets trapped by goth and then becomes “setup fodder” for linoone

#

theres a fuck ton of mons that sure would appreciate zygarde, pdon, ndm trapped

#

and they all actually do it, unlike linoone

#

if your vs any form of ho, its literally not going to be doing anything

#

and ho is p much the most common playstyle on ladder and in tours, so

#

you face sucker punch yveltal, your also not doing anything

pallid oriole
tropic scroll
#

even just normal yveltal can tera ghost and kill you

#

sucker i think takes prio

#

but if it doesnt

#

every other point i mentioned still stands

pallid oriole
#

ultra necrozma is a prime candidate for trapping

tropic scroll
#

ok fair then, all the other points take precedent

tropic scroll
#

0- SpA Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Normal Linoone: 228-268 (76.7 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leech Seed damage

#

photon geyser changes to special once its attack drops below

#

or if you somehow find a way to lower its spat too

#

-6 252+ Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Normal Linoone: 162-192 (54.5 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leech Seed damage

#

lol

#

it is a prime candidate for trapping

#

your right

pallid oriole
tropic scroll
#

but since linoone sucks

#

the trapping isnt going to matter

#

most of the things this goth traps will still own linoone

low juniper
pallid oriole
#

wait a minute

#

we are all idiots

#

STRUGGLE

solemn zodiac
#

yeah youve killed their ndm or zyg or whatever

#

still cant setup linoone

#

atp why not just run good mons that benefit

low juniper
#

^

pallid oriole
#

what i meant was:
-6 252+ Atk Necrozma-Ultra Struggle vs. 4 HP / 16 Def Linoone: 27-32 (9 - 10.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever

#

anyways, lets stop talking about shitmons

crimson obsidian
#

yeah innovation wise I'd say chien pao is a much bigger deal than ghold tbh (adem was behind that)

low juniper
#

Innovation is mega venusaur

#

🔥🔥🔥

#

Imagine this is mega venusaur (there's no mega venu on tenor)

crimson obsidian
#

but yeah @pallid oriole the big thing is not that linoone 'can't' do anything. It can, but when you look at the support it takes to maybe do something, there isn't much point. Given the same level of support most mons in that role would be far more consistent while being able to function signficantly better under unoptimal conditions

pallid oriole
#

yeah. cool niche, but probably not viable.

crimson obsidian
#

Even niche is really oveselling it tbh

distant hearth
low juniper
#

Wow

amber fiber
#

opinions?

#

ubers

solemn zodiac
#

isn't this entire team available in ndou

tropic scroll
#

0 mons here are viable in ndubers

distant hearth
#

Also reminder that Hydro Steam does not bypass Desolate Land, nor does Protosynthesis trigger under it

low juniper
#

But orichalcum pulse works because fuck you

solemn zodiac
#

opulse sets sun

#

desoland sets desoland sun (completely unrelated to sun)

low juniper
solemn zodiac
#

does it really?

low juniper
#

Ye

#

Idk why

#

Or how even

#

But it just does

#

Korai built different ig

grand spear
#

NDMono Psychic Ft. Assault Vest Metagross
Meta's ev spread makes scarf Ghold SBall a guaranteed 3HKO after rocks, and also survives a +1 Fiery Dance from Volc
https://pokepast.es/090ac421c387828f

dry ridgeBOT
#

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

pallid oriole
grand spear
tepid sedge
#

recommendations?

low juniper
#

#1059714627384115290

tepid sedge
#

Sorry, I thought this was the right channel.

pearl scroll
#

But either you are really good at not missing or you REALLY want that flinch chance

grand spear
pearl scroll
#

But in all seriousness psychic fangs over zen

#

It’s just better

grand spear
#

I AM AWARE.

marble nest
low juniper
#

ok but srsly this whole team is #doodoo

#

mega beedrill is bad cuz it dies vs rocks and does ntohing vs eternatus and gira-o

kingambit has 0 synergy with the team

ditto is ditto but that's a crutch atp

focus sash marshadow is weak af and useless as soon as rocks go on

zacian-c has sacred sword over close combat for some reason and tera fairy is bad, also no wild charge to hit ho-oh

scarf kyogre is strictly worse than primal kyogre

marble nest
#

lol

low juniper
pallid oriole
low juniper
marble nest
#

rock tomb

low juniper
#

it doesnt get that

marble nest
#

marsh

low juniper
#

that doesnt kill

marble nest
#

it does

low juniper
#

252 Atk Technician Marshadow Rock Tomb vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh: 312-368 (75.1 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

#

nuh uh

#

252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Rock Tomb vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh: 406-478 (97.8 - 115.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

marble nest
pallid oriole
#

phermosa is better than beedrill in practically every way

marble nest
#

anyway i managed 1500 elo with this

#

somehow

pallid oriole
#

and even pher isnt that good

low juniper
marble nest
#

lol

pallid oriole
#

i think this team generally needs some fat. i recomend replacing kyogre with either p groudon or p kyogre

marble nest
#

alr

tropic scroll
#

i recommend starting over

pallid oriole
low juniper
crimson obsidian
#

Yeah nearly every mon on this time is unviable or running an unviable set

#

Also give the team compendium a look over. It has sets for most roles you'd want on a team

pearl scroll
#

Anybody?

lost locust
pearl scroll
lost locust
#

You dont have hazard control

pearl scroll
#

That’s hazard control

lost locust
#

Its gen 9

#

You should have

pearl scroll
lost locust
#

At least

#

Nat Dex gen 9

#

At least 2 hazard removers

pearl scroll
#

Ho-Oh has defog in natdex bruva

pearl scroll
#

Because many top teams don’t need that much removal

lost locust
#

😭

pearl scroll
#

And toxic spikes can be handled by grounded poison types

lost locust
#

You should add a speed Control pokemon

#

Beacuse your faster pokemon is arceus

#

And you have no prio moves

crimson obsidian
#

Yeah yv should be taunt over heat pulse and giratina-o isn't needed imo

lost locust
#

After nat dex ag deleted

#

Is mega rey even playable?

#

In nat dex

crimson obsidian
#

Maybe in some om

pallid oriole
#

this team is fairly passive

lost locust
#

Flutter Mane kinda destroys that team

#

With one calm mind

pearl scroll
pearl scroll
pearl scroll
lost locust
#

You can bait sucker punch

pearl scroll
#

Wdym bait sucker punch

#

You literally didn’t even read the paste carefully and say I got no priority

#

And outplaying sucker punch isn’t easy at all

lost locust
#

Sub

pearl scroll
#

Sub cm?

#

Great now ur gonna get beat by Ho-Oh

#

Cuz no power gem

#

Oh and why should I care so much about a C rank mon?

#

Oh, and post elo

lost locust
crimson obsidian
#

Flutter definitely isn't a concern. Give DD zygarde a go

#

if you're somehow good against everything that flutter mane is what is causing you issues you probably have a good team (generally speaking)

tropic scroll
#

2 forms of removal is far too much and unrealistic, even 1 is often times not needed

#

a lot of structures that function with no removal, and the rest all use 1

tropic scroll
#

currently the team is owned by marsh lategame, your best bet is going hooh to scout then yveltal and be forced to sucker

pearl scroll
tropic scroll
#

marshadow

#

lunala

pearl scroll
#

hmmm...

#

how do i not get owned by a A rank mon

#

maybe i just out offense them

#

dayum why is marsh always the bane of my existance when i team build

tropic scroll
#

wdym

#

u got tera dark hooh yvel fairyceus

#

its enough for marsh

low juniper
swift fable
tropic scroll
#

u r 6-0ed by pogre

#

and cm darkceus

#

what is taunt on mmy for anyways

#

band marshadow without polt is also throwing

#

if ur running tblast ghost deo at least run something like etern or cm fairyceus for ndm

#

at least ur running good mons, thats a start, but this team is missing a lot and lacks synergy

#

i cant see what the idea was meant to be with this team.

swift fable
tropic scroll
#

like what

#

and why cant any normal team deal with them

#

without np you are not very threatening

swift fable
#

i dont want to deal with it

tropic scroll
#

go to hooh

#

click whirlwind

#

not that hard bro

#

no physdef on hooh is also a bit od

swift fable
#

i just made this a few hours ago with no prior knowledge

tropic scroll
#

get some knowledge then

#

there are the analyses

#

use them, they explain what works best with what and why

#

the team bazaar has some good teams

#

we have a team and role compendium

swift fable
#

can you just tell me how to make it "good"

tropic scroll
#

i dont even know what you wanted to do with this team

#

again, this just looks like a random assortment of good mons with reasonable sets

#

there doesnt seem to be a coherant idea in mind here

#

you have tblast ghost deo, but no way to take advantage of ndm lured

#

you have no pdon, but no way to deal with pogre otherwise

swift fable
tropic scroll
#

thats just listing the mons movesets

#

you got one part right though, random

#

you cant just throw some mons together and assume it works

#

and i cant just "make it good"

swift fable
tropic scroll
#

i can change some parts and itll function completely different

swift fable
#

to get info

tropic scroll
#

yeah, the info im giving is put some effort into understanding the tier and what each mon does and why/how it does that so you can make a coherent team

#

theres a lot of resources on this tier that are prepared, its not hard to look through them and build a coherent team

lavish gyro
#

does anyone have a good build with lucario?

swift fable
#

@tropic scroll may i ask how better is my team with zacian over mewtwo?

swift fable
lavish gyro
swift fable
lavish gyro
#

ill finish my build when i dp can u rate it for me?

swift fable
#

although you can try hp instead of speed

swift fable
lavish gyro
#

kk

swift fable
#

when your done shoot it

lavish gyro
#

kk

tropic scroll
#

the issue is your team lacks a plan, an idea

swift fable
#

who i autolose to

tropic scroll
#

the mons are all good individually, and would only need minor set changes

tropic scroll
swift fable
tropic scroll
#

it also doesnt really want to hard switch into arc dark until it knows it isnt foul play or wisp

swift fable
#

oh i am dumb

#

its an offensive counterplay

tropic scroll
swift fable
#

its offensive counterplay

tropic scroll
#

it also cant even 1v1 some of the sets

#

also cant beat offensive after losing boosts

#

which is common for zacian of off ho

#

you pair it with something like sd pdon for example, since teams like that can limit the opportunities pdon comes in

#

so zacian alongside that pdon set can deal with pogre sufficiently

sullen jackal
#

Got to 1750 with this

#

I like

#

But want inputs

tropic scroll
#

how do u switch into giratina origin

swift fable
sullen jackal
sonic sleet
#

U need a proper dark

sullen jackal
#

You're talking to me or

#

Frozen?

#

Sorry i'm slow

sonic sleet
#

Zyg slot is a bit unnecessary id say just go for a yveltal

#

In that slot

sullen jackal
#

I was gonna say

tropic scroll
#

u also lose to marshadow

sullen jackal
tropic scroll
#

well

#

act nr

lavish gyro
#

@swift fable ive made it how do i share it now?

tropic scroll
#

with zyg

sullen jackal
#

Instead of over zyg

swift fable
lavish gyro
sullen jackal
#

Cause zyg blanket checks a ton of other stuff and its particularly effective on ladder from my experience

tropic scroll
#

maybe go like fairyceus over hooh

#

helps deal with dtail zyg

swift fable
tropic scroll
#

ye it should be your right

#

thought it was spdef

#

just go fairyceus > hooh shld be fine for dtail zyg

swift fable
#

i am thinking of making it go full spdef

tropic scroll
#

No

#

keep it physdef

#

it doesnt need spd

sullen jackal
#

But i'll try yvel ty @sonic sleet

tropic scroll
#

physdef lets u mess with pdon a lot more

sullen jackal
#

Didn't think of that one before in this

tropic scroll
#

@ stallsun

#

i think maybe yvel over gira might b better

#

and make zyg tera water

#

for ndm

#

gives u a proper switch in into hooh

#

think u cld struggle vs like

#

tspike + tera water zyg

#

altho zyg in general looks a bit scary then

#

H

#

m

#

act maybe over zyg is better

#

act yeah

#

it is

#

i was wrong.

#

altho dd z ndm still annoying, u might wqanna go tera steel on gira o for it

#

@sullen jackal

sullen jackal
#

Back

sullen jackal
#

I'll try both ways lol

tropic scroll
#

i was wrong, gira is the right way

#

as in keep gira***

#

but make it tera steel

#

THATS ALL

sullen jackal
#

Gotcha lol

low juniper
#

Cuz yeah u insta lose to pyogre otherwise

solemn zodiac
#

what if

#

gastrodon

low juniper
#

No

#

Bro checks nothing apart from pyogre and waterceus

solemn zodiac
#

he ummm uhhhh ummmm uhh

low juniper
#

Do NOT say zekrom

solemn zodiac
#

he checks hooh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

low juniper
#

Kid named

#

Toxic

solemn zodiac
#

just regen it back clueless

low juniper
#

It doesn't have regen

#

It needs storm drain

#

And recover pp nerf

#

U gonna get chipped like crazy

solemn zodiac
low juniper
crimson obsidian
# swift fable check pyogre and arceus dark

as the person who put together those resources Zacian-C is offensive counterplay to Primal Kyogre because +1 wild charge ohkoes offensive sets unless they run no speed (requires some hp and near max def evs iirc) and ohkoes defensive sets after some chip. As Adem mentioned, it doesn't switch safely at all. Origin Pulse OHKOes from offensive sets and Scald still hits hard while threatening a burn from defensive sets

#

also re: the triple ground. It has a very tough time with offensive pogre

lost locust
pallid oriole
#

what is flash cannon for?

#

cause pdon is basically better than camerupt in every way

#

your team is overall very passive

#

either fix that or add dodonzo

lost locust
#

I can add overheat instead of flashc

pallid oriole
lost locust
#

Pdon

pallid oriole
#

primal groudon

lost locust
#

But its ou

#

Primal g is banned

hazy remnant
lost locust
#

Uh my bad

#

Sr

hazy remnant
lost locust
#

Thx

jovial spear
sonic summit
severe laurel
pallid oriole
#

weather teams dont really work in this tier

#

the best pokemon in the game hard counters them

#

virtually every team will have primal groudon, which means virtually every team will be able to completely shut you down

low juniper
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gg

severe laurel
ivory delta
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252+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Yveltal: 270-318 (59.3 - 69.8%) -- approx. 2HKO

I finally get to use melmetal
https://pokepast.es/dd3caeac3038aa41

I made this team pretty quickly, but it's doing surprisingly well (maybe just because I'm low ladder)

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shit I forgot tera

pallid oriole
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why clear amulet?

ivory delta
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just in case of Intimidate stall, I see that a fair bit nowadays

pallid oriole
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theres like one good intimidate pokemon in the tier

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and it will only ever activate it once

ivory delta
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I guess
idk I suppose I could just slap life orb on it and it would be better

pallid oriole
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most people run boots, but i odnt think lo is bad

ivory delta
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boots actually makes much more sense if it's one of my troom setters

pearl scroll
low juniper
# ivory delta 252+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Yvelta...

Melmetal's flinch chance is already ~50%, you'd rather have Choice Band to have more power rather than banking off of flinches, since you're more prone to being revenge killed by the target once Trick Room ends.

Calyrex-Ice is better off using Choice Band as well, since the only Intimidate user is Mega Salamence, which happens once, and loses regardless. Use it with Trick over Trick Room to punish Tera Water Zygarde and Dondozo, since Calyrex-I is a very mediocre setter.

Kingambit isn't a Trick Room mon in NDUbers since you're better off using either another Trick Room setter (Cresselia, Arceus with Mental Herb or Lunala) or a better attacker (Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre and Necrozma-DM). By time the endgame comes, Trick Room will be over and it'll be worn down very quickly due to Life Orb.

Hatterene should use Focus Sash instead of Leftovers so it doesn't die as a lead. It should also have Healing Wish so it can bring in allies much more easier after it sets Trick Room.

Ursaluna-BM sucks on Trick Room, it's C- and it wasn't even good because of TR, just use Primal Kyogre, or even better, another Trick Room setter like Cresselia, with Lunar Dance to make up for Melmetal's and Calyrex-I's poor PP.

Zygarde doesn't fit here and again you're better off using a better attacker or a Trick Room setter like Arceus.

distant hearth
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Let's not ignore that King's Rock does not trigger on moves that innately have a flinch chance (meaning that it doesn't stack nor does anything of note here)

ivory delta
pallid oriole
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heat crash is better than overheat in almost every scenario

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oh sorry, i meant fire punch

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heat crash is better than fire punch

ivory delta
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done

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however, I'm noticing I lose to yveltal almost every time

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idk what a good check would be

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or who to cut

crimson obsidian
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generally you'd want to run eruption on pdon

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lunala with / tr/ teleport/moongeist/moonblast and tera fairy works

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fwiw generally tr is 3 setters (hatt>arceus>lunala>cress) / 3 attackers (caly-i> primal groudon > primal kyogre > melmetal) and melmetal pairs best w cress

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part of the problem w/ trick room is that is very linear with little ways to get around its poor matchups (pretty much everything other than ho)

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caly-i can be 0 speed ivs as well ig

lilac goblet
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Where can I use this team

IMG_5156.png
pallid oriole
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natdex ou

distant hearth
grand spear
low juniper
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Maybe even eruption pdon over SD 3a

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Yeah this team doesn't do super hot into stall (even if that's kinda niche ig)

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Esp if u don't have taunt or even overheat on chi yu

grand spear
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so taunt over flamethrower?

low juniper
tropic scroll
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why did u post this in both of the wrong channels

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#1059714627384115290

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this explicitely says non ou, and the other says svou

low juniper
drifting jetty
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im sorry

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I didnt know which was which I will remove my link

random bluff
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Heh, Skibidi sigma gyatt rizzmaster

low juniper