NatDex Other Tiers

[pearl scroll]

Yea boots is a fake set

I think

[tropic scroll]

the mon is not hard to chip anyways

idt thats worth losing out on other zac

[pearl scroll]

Maybe pdon does not belong on every single team after all

[tropic scroll]

yeah

u dont put it on stall either

(which is dicks but yeah)

its good on ho but its not like other teams when u can always justify it

u got options

[pearl scroll]

Mhm

Yea

I guess pdon is more BO/balance/fat mon

[tropic scroll]

nah he fits on a good bit of hos

its def an everything mon

just not an everything all the time mon

if that makes sense

[distant hearth]

Too slow, and doesn't abuse Teras as well as other mons, especially as Tera Blast isn't compatible with Sheer Force

TBH it wasn't particularly viable in Gen 8 NDAG either for similar reasons

[swift pewter]

https://pokepast.es/5246d7e5bdbfdb16

[distant hearth]

Mental Herb seems useless on Eternatus when it outspeeds basically every Taunt mon

[swift pewter]

not deos

[distant hearth]

I mean, Deo-S can just nuke with Psycho Boost

[swift pewter]

it doesn't ko

[distant hearth]

0 SpA Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost over 2 turns vs. 249 HP / 40 SpD Eternatus: 434-516 (89.8 - 106.8%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO

Could be inconsistent

[swift pewter]

u only need 1 layer down vs deo-s builds to immediately lock the game down

fwiw now that xern is banned there is much less value to this tech anyway

[distant hearth]

You could also invert the spread (max SpD, 36 on HP) to ensure a 3HKO from Psycho Boost

[swift pewter]

oy that is interesting

can work yea

[distant hearth]

Eternatus has a lot of HP, so unless it's a mixed bulk spread it's better to just invest on the defensive stat

[swift pewter]

its mostly for marsh calcs but w/ yvel and lando i imagine its not a big deal maybe

[distant hearth]

Any particular reason to run Lando-T over Zygarde?

[swift pewter]

uhhh

how often does zac run pr

it can run rocks over taunt here

[distant hearth]

Basically always, but Zyg is a mon that Terastallizes 70% of the time

[swift pewter]

m

[distant hearth]

I suppose a niche can technically be argued, but it's way easier to overwhelm

0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 264-312 (81.2 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is sad

[sonic sleet]

you get helmet anyways

[buoyant jolt]

probs look to whatever it did in SS/SM

[distant hearth]

In Gen 7 it has no analysis for Ubers at all
In Gen 8 it has one for vanilla Ubers but not NDAG, in which its niche is mainly focused around U-Turn, and this team lacks fast breakers to abuse that sort of momentum properly, so the mon doesn't particularly fit here anyways
The Gen 9 Ubers analysis (no analysis for NDUbers exists, and I can say there's no plans to even rank it in the VR right now) focuses on checking Pokemon that don't exist in this tier (Koraidon, Miraidon) plus Zacian-C, and Arceus formes have Refresh here, so Toxic becomes a bit more situational

Overall i don't think Lando is a good idea, at least not on this team

Yveltal gets U-Turn and could be used to compress that role if really desired, not that the team would abuse it that much, however

[buoyant jolt]

Gen 7 its ranked very highly iirc but like

ig

[tropic scroll]

its c rank in sm

i think it has potential

fog on non fire move pdon

check zac

[tropic scroll]

i like this

this looks good

i think atp w lando

u just go offensive dd

[swift pewter]

mayb

[tropic scroll]

not having tspikes vs ekiller ho means u can lose to sd taunt btw

that set is a killer

or sd fresh

[tropic scroll]

ye

and make the etern from hp to spd

like yung bob said

[tropic scroll]

counterpoint:

pdon is a mon that gets chipped extremely easily and often wants to stay healthy

especially in mathcups where ur pressuring opposing pdon

same with dd ndm

mon can never set up if its not healthy

so i think landos slow pivots work well here

i think u can easily get overwhelmed if not

also @swift pewter have u thought of fresh instead of taunt on ghostceus

[swift pewter]

i did not

didn't think much about options tbh

taut has other uses besides supporting your sweep though, and that can have interesting applications i think

hazards + double taunt is nice

[tropic scroll]

Ye ur right

idk how cash cm rere arc is in this economy tbh but

if it works it works

or well mono stab in general

[swift pewter]

honestly team is relatively untested

there was something i didn't like about it when i tried it but i don't remember what

i think lando maybe was a bit underwhelming

[tropic scroll]

maybe

i wanna build w it

by using the Chris P Bacon method.

@carmine sundial 🤭

[swift pewter]

what is the chris p bacon method

[carmine sundial]

ughhhhhhhhhhhhh SHUT UPPPPPPPP @tropic scroll

[tropic scroll]

.

i was being NICE

[tropic scroll]

take sv/ss/sm/oras teams

and make them work in nd

[carmine sundial]

oh

that

[swift pewter]

u teached him to be this way adem

[tropic scroll]

.

.

HOW

i am literally

so nice

[swift pewter]

ctrl f "from:adem stfu"

[tropic scroll]

.

[swift pewter]

one ademillion results

[tropic scroll]

ademillion

ok but

this tactic surely works

u can take some last gen ndag teams too

[swift pewter]

tbh i think u can steal concepts from even older formats

[tropic scroll]

.

that is whag

i just said

OMGGGGG

[swift pewter]

older than those

i mean

[tropic scroll]

.

[carmine sundial]

DPP ag time

[swift pewter]

u can copy some sand balances 6 from bw

[tropic scroll]

ok older thab that

is where i draw the line

[swift pewter]

and they work fine in current nd t

[tropic scroll]

i got nineveh back on.

[swift pewter]

ngl

[tropic scroll]

we will be cooking

[carmine sundial]

.

[swift pewter]

u usually change 1 mon

or 2

[tropic scroll]

some supreme dpp ag.

[swift pewter]

surely there are concepts from dpp or even adv that u can try to reproduce

mons is mons dud

[tropic scroll]

yeah

[swift pewter]

as long as u know what u are doing

[tropic scroll]

triple darkrai

lead hariyama.

[swift pewter]

ok noob

[tropic scroll]

@carmine sundial is negative to hariyama

[tropic scroll]

?

hariyama is a real mon

ur hating

[swift pewter]

@carmine sundial bring primeape

[tropic scroll]

sm

[carmine sundial]

.

OKAY.

[distant hearth]

Good points regarding Lando-T Adem, thanks for covering them

[tropic scroll]

👍

Np.

-NDUbers Ghost Leader.

[swift remnant]

natdex monotype team (ghost)

https://pokepast.es/a71f2f866f99db1a

for casual and fun aggressive play, tell me if theres any mon i should add to couner certain things, struggling a bit with sucker punch rn

[pearl scroll]

That banette set is uhhhhhhhhhh

I doubt it heavily

[swift remnant]

ye even after trailblade i still dont outspeed some ppl lol

[atomic salmon]

Honestly looking at the team and i know you said this just more of a casual/fun play. I like the concept. ik you said you are struggling with sucker, you can run substitute on Gholdengo to help with sucker punch. Maybe a 3 attack + sub. You can also add in Mimikyu over Aegislash as diguise can also help against sucker (since u would only take that lil dmg first.) Mimikyu also can help in the dark match up. You can also run 3a + SD on mimikyu with life orb. I would run Night shade over Self destruct on Corsola, good wall. Blacephalon can be ran over hoopa, great scarfer, hits hard like a truck and can snowball after each ko. If you want a physical fire ghost, ceruledge is there as well.

[swift remnant]

i tried swords dance shadow sneak but shadow sneak would be the only move that i can use to go first with that build and they just switch and resist it

[swift remnant]

blace is a good idea, night shade was originally on corsola but people just didnt kill it and left it on to set up stuffand i found it hard to switch to my squishy attackers without them doing lots of damage to it

ill replace benett with mimik and hooper with blace

for blace do i use mind blown or flamethrower

[atomic salmon]

also mega sableye is really good for ghost teams as well, Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Careful Nature

• Knock Off
• Recover
• Protect
• Will-O-Wisp
  this set is nice you survive e powers from nidoking after you knock off the life orb

[atomic salmon]

flamethrower or fire blast if you want to hit like a truck

[swift remnant]

for blace i went fireblast shadow ball HPfighting and trick with scarf

[atomic salmon]

You can also run Metal burst over protect to just threaten m diance or you can run dazzling gleam to ease the dragon/dark/fighting match up more,

[swift remnant]

ye metal burst sounds fun

[atomic salmon]

yeah thats fine you can also run psyshock over hp fighting if you are struggling against poison or hp ice if ground and Dragon types is a pain as well like garchomp and dragonite

[swift remnant]

ill try hpfighting for now since it covers dark and rock

can i replace knock off with foul play on sable

actually nvm that overlaps with metal burst

for sable should i sometimes not mega immediately to get a priority willowisp

[pearl scroll]

Anyways

Anybody help with my ndubers team?

I try to ladder but I think HO is not for me

https://pokepast.es/c47d9d1bb287a269

The double status is a feature

[atomic salmon]

yeah that is fine to do

[pearl scroll]

So unless it really hurts the team I kinda wanna keep it.

I had success with it on regular Ubers, so now I try it here.

But maybe I should put taunt instead since pdon is a problem for this set.

[swift remnant]

looks a bit weak to primal kyogre imo since it can ice beam salamence and no water resist on the rest

[pearl scroll]

Technically pdon can help but ur right

But don’t worry Arceus is faster

Sorta

I may be able to make this better if I use fairyceus, but the fairy typing is important

[hazy remnant]

this a balance team?

[pearl scroll]

Yea

Mostly I guess

But I like BO a bit more

I mainly play SV Ubers so this is very different to me

[hazy remnant]

TR Ndm isnt really a think to my knowledge, you’d honestly rather run ddance with sunsteel/photon eq sedge and either Z sunsteel or ultra bust unecro

willo + twave is kind of

odd

on fairyceus

[pearl scroll]

Well, it was a set in SV Ubers so I just brought it here

[hazy remnant]

yeah svuber sets dont transfer over

meta is very different

[pearl scroll]

That’s to be able to do something to both the bird and non

Ndm

[hazy remnant]

Nah, not worth it

Would rather toxic then

For ndm dont stay in with fairyceus lol

[pearl scroll]

So ndm and fairyceus don’t fit?

And toxic on fairyceus?

[hazy remnant]

Just their sets

Fairyceus set is like

Judgement
Recover
Taunt
EarthPower/Toxic

And then hooh has 58 spd i think? to live a +1 dmax cannon from eternatus

My data is rlly bad rn

[pearl scroll]

Mhm I think it’s 60 or 54

Maybe I should use Waterceus instead

[hazy remnant]

Generic Nickname (Ho-Oh) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 52 SpD
Impish Nature

• Sacred Fire
• Toxic
• Defog
• Whirlwind

its 52 spd

[pearl scroll]

You don’t need that spd

It’s for xerneas

Xerneas gone rn

[hazy remnant]

no, it’s for +1 dmax cannon on etern

[pearl scroll]

Oh

[quasi garnet]

wasp 52 is xern

[hazy remnant]

what

oh it’s 56

from the analysis

248 hp 204 def 56 spd

[pearl scroll]

Ok

[hazy remnant]

tera grass ground or dark

[pearl scroll]

Now what about for ndm ?

Like what spread

[hazy remnant]

depends

do you want solgalium Z or ultranecrozium Z

id also run frustration over double edge on msalamence but that’s more of a preferential thing i think

[pearl scroll]

Mhm

Ultra looks nice

But I may just want to be able to tera

[hazy remnant]

216 atk 40 def 252 spe

[pearl scroll]

I just need to be able to survive some certain hits

[hazy remnant]

Adamant or jolly depends what you need

[pearl scroll]

Wait what is that for

[hazy remnant]

Unecro

[pearl scroll]

40def

[hazy remnant]

Always survives banded marsh shadow sneak

[pearl scroll]

Awesome

[hazy remnant]

Adamant helps out vs defensive arc forms but jolly lets you outspeed offensive arc forms

[pearl scroll]

Now for the Arceus

I think Waterceus is better here

Since fairy gets walled by a lot of stuff

[hazy remnant]

i personally think waterceus is a fraud

[pearl scroll]

Because of pdon?

[hazy remnant]

yeah p much

[pearl scroll]

Wait I have another idea, cm groundy

[distant hearth]

Primal Kyogre is also a better breaker

[hazy remnant]

ye

[distant hearth]

Or Palkia-Origin

[pearl scroll]

That thing is not a real Pokémon, right?

[hazy remnant]

use palkia origin (i am definitely not biased)

[sonic sleet]

Wisp taunt is the best fairyceus imo, simply to not let ho oh get fog or toxic or whirlwind off and makes double dance pdon only be able to attack making it half as threatening

[hazy remnant]

im offended

[distant hearth]

Palkia-O is quite good, it's surprisingly hard to wall in the current meta

[pearl scroll]

Mhm

[hazy remnant]

Speaking of palkia i gotta reserve the analysis for it if it hasnt already

[distant hearth]

It was taken already

[hazy remnant]

aw man

[pearl scroll]

https://pokepast.es/93523ed674079218

Ok here it is

Revised a bit

Probably not enough yet

Missing some evs

Maybe pogre is better over something

Or maybe palkia origin is better?

[tropic scroll]

they can

if you can justify it

[tropic scroll]

U def can lol

z solg doesnt ko and your faster and can wisp

completely shutting unec too

altho

hooh is the mon u dont want to stay in on lol

Getting toxed means ur arc is effectively dead

if u run dual status i think tox wisp r better anyways

u hit the same things u want to

and tox is brokenp

[tropic scroll]

that yvel set is balls

in arceus turn if ur offensive yvel is phys its not doibg anything

this is weird tho

its a balanced team with a dd mmence and off yvel

ur only removal is hooh

team is too slow for this and lacks the removal to support it

[pearl scroll]

Mhm

True,

I have like no experience in team building in this tier so yea

But we ball with adamant yvel

Maybe ddance salamence can leave

Oh wait, I can use defensive mega Salamanca

Salamence

[distant hearth]

Defensive Mega Salamence is limited to Facade sets at most, otherwise you'd want to use Giratina-Origin, Zygarde or, well, Ho-Oh

[tropic scroll]

idk why u wld use defensive mence when u can use all the other better defensive dragons/ground immunes

[pearl scroll]

Maybe another defogger would be nice

Plus my team may need a bit of longevity with Salamanca

Salamence

[pearl scroll]

Aerialiate body slam does stuff

[distant hearth]

Body Slam sucks, use either Return, Frustration, or Double-Edge

[pearl scroll]

Defensive salamence has became fake

Damn

Btw do I need a bit of priority?

Like I dunno rayquaza?

Oh wait that thing sucks

[distant hearth]

It's balance, you don't really need that

Plus you already have Yveltal, which should probably change its set to the specially offensive one, namely as Life Orb Oblivion Wing provides decent longevity while also hitting hard

[pearl scroll]

Mhm

Now only if it was still in SV

[distant hearth]

It'd suck in vanilla Ubers as it can easily be abused by the bikes

[hushed zealot]

i hate destiny bond

some guy was gonna get wrecked by my quagsire i had only quagsire left he had gengar on 1 hp and sirfetched on 1 hp too i was think i was gonna win by using earthquake bro used destiny bond

my quagsire was full hp

😭🗿

[tropic scroll]

ok

[tropic scroll]

https://pokepast.es/d2b5af962d5512a0

@distant hearth @sullen jackal

stall u will be helping me implement these changes.

[sullen jackal]

Sure

[tropic scroll]

oh make lando

[sullen jackal]

I got like 1 hour and 15 minutes

[tropic scroll]

tera water

[sullen jackal]

Ah ok

I forgot

That one was a misinput

Lol...

[tropic scroll]

@sonic summit get ur butt over here.

[tropic scroll]

its ok

[sonic summit]

i want to maul this with Caly Ice but the team is probably fine

[sullen jackal]

Lmao

[tropic scroll]

tspike own

• tera lando

• marsh

• im better

also what if i go tox on etern

over sludge

sludge hits nothing anyways

[sonic summit]

tera ground lando

[tropic scroll]

READ DOWN BUDDY.

[sonic summit]

doesnt matter

paste says otherwise

ur argument is DEAD

[tropic scroll]

.

insane hate.

[sonic summit]

like Caly runs through half the team before Marsh even gets in 😭

eh w/e TR is a meme

[tropic scroll]

Dud just set tspikes before it.

[sullen jackal]

So uh

[tropic scroll]

-The Roaming Bengal Cat.

[sullen jackal]

All im getting from this is

Tox over sludge

[tropic scroll]

Ok but like

do i make tox over sludge @sonic summit

[tropic scroll]

sludge is bad on etern anyways unless its offensive

[sullen jackal]

Fair enough lol

[tropic scroll]

the real question is

tox or flame

[sullen jackal]

True lol

[tropic scroll]

Ok wtv try both see whats good @sullen jackal

im inclined to think tox

[sullen jackal]

Ait lmao

Same

[tropic scroll]

bc zac is not that broken

and u got lando don hooh

get important replays and REPORT BACK TO ME

thank u.

[carmine sundial]

🤓

[sullen jackal]

Understood lmao

[distant hearth]

What do the EVs do for Ho-Oh?

[sullen jackal]

Ask @zealous plover

He gave the set

[zealous plover]

Live a +1 Zacian Wild Charge and outspeed +Spe nature ArcForms after Flame Charge.

[sullen jackal]

👍

[distant hearth]

Interesting

[sullen jackal]

256 +1 also outspeeds Jolly Marshadow

Which is cool

[sonic sleet]

I know not the most relevant mon but you get 6-0d by calyrex ice just as an fyi

[celest echo]

would NatDex Doubles go here?

[sonic sleet]

Yes

[celest echo]

https://pokepast.es/e092c0da11a94cd1

this team is one of the more interesting teams ive made due to the leavany addition

[sonic sleet]

I mean sadly leavanny isnt viable and walking wake and hisuian lilligant arent that good

[celest echo]

i wanted some speed control, i prefer sticky web and thought chlorophyll leavany would be fast enough to set sticky web

its a sun team

[sonic sleet]

Tailwind is the main means of speed control in doubles especially for fast teams

[celest echo]

right but with the speed double from chlorophyll a sticky web lets me outspeed tailwind

that was my thought process anyway

hard to do sun without just spamming parydox mons

[sonic sleet]

Chlorophyll boosted leavanny is not scary at all

https://pokepast.es/954693898f41b606 just have this, its a sample i modified to have flutter

[celest echo]

right doesnt need to be

it just sets sticky web

maybe gets a hit

then dies

[sonic sleet]

It sets webs and tailwind still outspeeds you

Because tailwind is a 2x boost

[celest echo]

right

thunderclap

[sonic sleet]

So the webs is useless

[celest echo]

not really

tailwinds not permanent

[sonic sleet]

Webs also just gives kingambit a free boost and doesnt even affect most things that annoy sun

Clear amulet kyurem black, volcanion, mega salamence, defiant kingambit

[celest echo]

but without it id have 0 speed control

not every team runs tailwind

[sonic sleet]

Every hyper offensive team either has tailwind or is purely priority based

Sun is a hyper offensive archetype

[sonic sleet]

Just use this

[celest echo]

fair

[sonic sleet]

Original sample has fini instead of flutter but i like flutter better

[celest echo]

wouldnt torn be better than whim because torn can also set sun?

that team only has 1 sun setter

[sonic sleet]

You can use torn too but encore is nice to have vs other hyper offense and setup

You dont need sun to be up all the time you can just switch in and out zardy

[celest echo]

if charzard dies your left without sun isnt that bad?

[sonic sleet]

It isnt the end of the world

Whims also gets sunny day if u really want

[celest echo]

https://pokepast.es/ea8372aeb540ede8

i think i make something good then im hit with the first game hard counter

[sonic sleet]

This is a bit better but u should run a few protects

Zardy doesnt need focus blast or air slash

Heat wave is its best move

Specs wake with booster speed is just better than spatk booster scarf

Numerically

Hisui lillis main niche is after you chlorophyll and you dont have anything slow to take advantage of it

[celest echo]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexdoubles-2093412050 best clutch ever

[sonic sleet]

Hearthflame or rillaboom is just better

[celest echo]

i understand what you mean but i didnt want to have multiple specs mons y'know dont put all your eggs in one basket

[celest echo]

I get Hearthflame but why Rilla? i know hes a good mon and all but i dont know how he benifits from sun

i might test a few mons to see what works best

alright my biggest hope for a secretly strong mon has been ruined

Balcephalon sun boosted isnt that strong

[sonic sleet]

Rillaboom is just a support mon with fake out and pivotting and helps you vs zygarde and tapu fini

[celest echo]

ooh then wouldnt incin be good?

fake out and parting shot plus sun boosted flare blizt seems good

[sonic sleet]

incin stacks weaknesses, rillaboom covers them

[celest echo]

i was already stacking weaknesses

[sonic sleet]

so u shouldnt stack more

rilla covers zygarde and tapu fini which are some of the hardest matchups for sun

[celest echo]

https://pokepast.es/e6d77df748ed7ade

[tropic scroll]

Mo

Playable

ill make hooh tera fire also

[buoyant jolt]

https://pokepast.es/ef4281b3906d5efb

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @fleet sand, @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sonic summit]

u prob want sash driller

[buoyant jolt]

yea lupla also said that

and sball on Zam

https://pokepast.es/caccf1f5d524ebba like this

Do any other changes need to be made?

[sonic summit]

i would drop Ice Beam for Sludge Wave

on gren

also probably want Sash Zam on psyspam i think

[buoyant jolt]

oki

[buoyant jolt]

https://pokepast.es/0b90f326dd34a3dc

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @fleet sand, @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[harsh furnace]

OHHHH

https://pokepast.es/94eb78d066b2a6df

i tried cooking after playing with some sample teams for a bit

[solemn zodiac]

i see that mon and i clicked out instantly

[hazy remnant]

what format is this

oh it’s ndubers

[solemn zodiac]

the sashshadow

[hazy remnant]

Don’t use focus sash marshadow, you’d rather use life orb or band with tera ghost/fighting
Skymin is not viable, neither is volcarona or mega lopunny

Toxapex and ferrothorn are only viable on stall afaik and those two are a bit mid on there too

[solemn zodiac]

what does ferro do on stall?

[quasi garnet]

idt ferro has a real stall niche..

[solemn zodiac]

does it even check pogre

[harsh furnace]

why?

the clown thing i have on reprents my knowledge on this game btw

[hazy remnant]

hits like a wet paper noodle

folds to competent hazard management

[harsh furnace]

cuz no life orb

everyone i fight on ladder gets confused on my lack of lifeorb

[hazy remnant]

correct

therefore, use life orb or choice band

[harsh furnace]

i understand WHY i should use those and i did use them at first, but the scenario where i get folded like a wet noodle to a juiced up arceus happens more than when i hit the same mon for 97%

[distant hearth]

Shaymin-Sky is unviable as it gets walled by Ho-Oh and in general flinch-hax is inconsistent
Volcarona is unviable as it can't break past the myriad of bulky Flying and Fire-types in the metagame
Actually, basically all the team but Marshadow, Toxapex and Ferrothorn are entirely unviable, and even then Marshadow is using an infamously unviable set

I'd recommend to just pick a sample team

[harsh furnace]

ok ty

[distant hearth]

That's its main purpose
It's more of a somewhat niche pick for balance, but it's not unviable as with the high HP of several foes in the metagame, it's surprisingly bulky with Leech Seed

[hazy remnant]

trying to build around the fish

https://pokepast.es/916f7c75905f35ad

[tropic scroll]

fish only works on ho

and by ho i mean generally psyspam

this team is too slow for it

if fish was smtg like an arc fairy this team would be significantly better

if u want to use fish start from scratch and build a ho

@hazy remnant

[hazy remnant]

[tropic scroll]

sorry

if it helps u can probably keep some of the same mons

tera ghost is bad on fish too btw

u hit hard enough

u need defensive utility

so something like tera normal/fairy is best

[hazy remnant]

now i’m getting conflicting opinions cause i think cayman told me to run tera ghost

[tropic scroll]

did they list a reason

i cannot think of any possible reason

u already ohko/2hko everything

also u have adapt already lol

so tera ghost isnt adding much damage wise

trust me i calced and tried it prior

[hazy remnant]

2hko darkceus and yveltal

[tropic scroll]

252 Atk Adaptability Basculegion Last Respects vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Yveltal: 283-334 (62.1 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Adaptability Tera Ghost Basculegion Last Respects vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Yveltal: 318-375 (69.8 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[hazy remnant]

good chip

[tropic scroll]

it 2hkoes anyways

run tera fight so u cant get rked by yvel

[sonic summit]

I don't get the Ferrothorn hate tbh

[tropic scroll]

WHERE

[sonic summit]

...?

@tropic scroll

erm

i missread it LOL

definitely not a stall exclusive mon tho

as Mr Wasp may have mentioned

[hazy remnant]

hence the "afaik" i dont know much about ferro's usage in ndubers

[tropic scroll]

Deep

[tropic scroll]

Ok

[sonic summit]

SROPPINGING ME

[tropic scroll]

Oh... SORRY!

[tropic scroll]

https://pokepast.es/d70a282fd9a09287

@sonic summit

still debating on yvel evs

but i liked the idea of taunt tox knock

n a fast one at that

with strong knocks

pressure arc dark and hooh and etern

[sonic sleet]

Didnt i build this...

[tropic scroll]

ye

u gavw the 6

i filled up the sets

i didt touch it u til today

[sonic sleet]

Rocks wisp fairyceus is ass

U can run rocks on pdon or drop rocks entirely

[tropic scroll]

spikes broken

[sonic sleet]

U wouldnt drop spikes

Drop rocks and run taunt on fairyceus

Rock slide seems fine but i really like extreme speed or ice beam

[tropic scroll]

Hm

cant break hooh then

no point if every time i bring it in hooh can come in

[sonic sleet]

Run rock slide then ig

[tropic scroll]

no rocks then kinda defeats the point of knock yvel no?

u cant knock hooh or opposing yvel

[sonic sleet]

Without taunt rocks is useless anyways

Since ho oh will come in without rocks up wall your fairyceus force it off and defog

[tropic scroll]

Hm fair

meh just knocking etern zyg lefties prob good enough

n if i force hooh tera

hm

i dunno

[sonic sleet]

If you are fine with being a bit weaker to zacc and dd ndm you can run rocks taunt

[tropic scroll]

i mean i have gira nd hooh

and bulky pdon

so maybe that works

[sonic sleet]

That could be better yeah sure

Id run wisp gira in that case tho

[tropic scroll]

there is an arceus fairy

this mon can also only set up on about half a mon

and thats yvel, which it would be stupid to unless it has cleared that it isnt fp

[tropic scroll]

aight

[ionic linden]

I feel like double edge and draco barrage just wrecks everything on mega salamence

Does he get draco jet?

[hazy remnant]

what

[distant hearth]

Neither "Draco Barrage" or "Draco Jet" exist as vanilla moves

[ionic linden]

Nvm he doesn't get draco jet

Nuh uh

[distant hearth]

Wrong tier

[ionic linden]

Sry

Wait but this is non ou

This is an ubers move

[distant hearth]

That move is not in any National Dex format to begin with

"National Dex Ubers" is the name of the respective format, rather than a description in itself

[ionic linden]

Nah you just didn't read the move list thoroughly enough

[ionic linden]

I see it on my end

[tropic scroll]

this is a move from radical red

just of off a quick google search

so idk if your trolling or just genuinely ignorant

but neither of these are moves in the actual pokemon games

[ionic linden]

I'm just genuinely ignorant

[low juniper]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1153076928895537165/1224503762941644841/Screenshot_2024-04-01_174029.png?ex=661dbaff&is=660b45ff&hm=f61e5bed8c6c835fe5772107eff5ec5c2e721467bdb453c3b57b3fa72ccf4833&

[tropic crane]

https://pokepast.es/877a22a0d1d9c0dd hows my natdex doubles team?

[ionic linden]

Oh that's too bad. It would be a great counter to seviian milotic, which is on like every team I see in natdex ubers.

[tropic scroll]

okay

not funny anymore bud

we get it, u like a fan gane

[ionic linden]

Nuh uh

[spare idol]

ndmono

https://pokepast.es/1b5f76bfa1d5b83e

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @rocky saffron, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[spare idol]

i need help making these six mons work (can rework the entire moveset items idc just somehow tell me what i need to improve it )

[runic sage]

you're going to have a hard time making these 6 work, you're missing out on some vital pokemon for the type and i will just say the most optimal thing here which is not going to be this 6 as per "Your team must be competitive, and you must be willing to have it optimized. We will not stop you from using whatever team you want"

• Replace ribombee and togekiss firstly. you want to have a klefki for screens and tapu koko for electric terrain.
• I would swap out Mimikyu for Iron Valiant, mimikyu isnt that bad option but tapu koko + iron valiant synergise well together due to valiant's quark drive.
• change the lele set to choice scarf
• you could keep clef if you want to, mdiancie would fit easier though
• primarina also is just kinda outclassed by fini or azumarill, but cm dkiss psychic noise with liquid voice and scald isn't the worst thing in the world, still offers fairy a steel neutral

[spare idol]

aight

my crush made that

Team

They liked these 6 mons

So I probably won't try to convince them to change it

Thanks for the help tho I've been liking mono fairy and you gave me great tips to teambuild for myself

[runic sage]

[hushed zealot]

guys is quagsire good or toxapex for tangrowth

i can only take one water type

anyone

[hazy remnant]

wrong channel, you’d rather go to #comp-general if you’re trying to get help on a competitive team

[low juniper]

pex

[low juniper]

zzzzzzzzzzz

[hazy remnant]

shut yo trap

‼️

[hushed zealot]

pex gets ohko or 2hko with earthquake or anyother powerful ground move

[low juniper]

thats why u have tangrowth

[hushed zealot]

tangrowth does not survive too it takes alot of dmg

[low juniper]

??

its a reists

resist

[hushed zealot]

wait m i tweaking somewhere

sami can u help me

in showdown

[low juniper]

with what

[hushed zealot]

u just have to come with a stab powerful earthquake mon

[low juniper]

what format

[hushed zealot]

uber

[low juniper]

wait what

why are u using

tangrowth in ubers

[hushed zealot]

bro can wwe talk in dm

pls

[low juniper]

whats ur user

[hazy remnant]

get out of the rmt thread

[hushed zealot]

sami check dm

[hushed zealot]

who r u

[grand spear]

the server owner

[hazy remnant]

[hushed zealot]

clown instead

[harsh furnace]

hehim

[atomic salmon]

Yoo ik this is a late reply, and i saw that you said your crush made it and you dont want to change the mons. Honestly your best bet would be making a sticky web offense team out of these 6. Ribombee can be the sticky web setter, so i would run like Moonblast, Psychic Noise (to hit scarf sneasler.) Sticky Web, Stun Spore or quiver dance. I would make Lele scarf with Moonblast, Psyshock, Focus Blast, and the last slot can be hp fire (hit scizor hard.), t bolt to ease the flying and water matchup, or shadow ball (for gholdengo.) Togekiss i'd probably suggest going a nasty plot + 3a set with fight z. Air Slash, Flamethrower, Aura Sphere and Nasty Plot. Same Evs as you have already. If you want to keep the z move on primarina, that is fine as well. you can always make it a defog roost togekiss set as well with hdb but having defog would just beat the purpose of it being sticky web, but its still nice to have that hazard removal. Clefable i honestly would make it a calm mind set. Moonblast, Tbolt, Moonlight, and Calm Mind. max hp 196 def, 60 speed bold nature with magic guard. The speed evs allows clefable to outspeed corviknight. Mimikyu I would run Drain Punch over Play rough and Swords Dance over Leech life. same evs and item as what you have. Lastly Prim I would also change it evs to what i recommend for clefable. Moves would be Scald (chance to burn threats like sneasler and alolan muk is always nice.), Draining Kiss, Psychic Noise, and Calm Mind as well. same ability as you have. What ttk said way earlier. the lack of koko + valiant + klefki is just very dire for the team. But I hope this helps ya, I think its sweet of you trying to make your crush team better. I your crush like the changes! and like always Happy Gaming

[hazy remnant]

arcd hooh bulkier balance team featuring lorb yvel and specs lunala

https://pokepast.es/9907dfc7a9955645

[distant hearth]

There's quite a lot of status spreading, so you could consider to run Hex over Moongeist Beam for Lunala here to raise its wallbreaking output
Really good team beyond that

[hazy remnant]

That’s a pretty interesting idea i think ill try it out

ty

[random bluff]

Is my team good? Anyone know a better set I can put on crustle?

[grand spear]

!pokepaste

[dry ridge]

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180492013660/pokepaste2.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=2d3caf4b912c30f438c896f0b696d9c80bd50d9e5a4a8ed067bca9e5dbf6ff3c&

[low juniper]

whatt tier

[random bluff]

Idk

Guess

[low juniper]

nd doubles?

[random bluff]

Nah

Singles

[low juniper]

so ndou?

[hazy remnant]

ndou, ubers, uu, ru, etc

if it's ndou then this is the wrong thread

[low juniper]

thanks wasp

[hazy remnant]

youre welcome sami

[tropic crane]

https://pokepast.es/29747dfae5b577dd can someone rate my sleep team please?

[random bluff]

IP grabber

[sonic summit]

please don't troll when people are very clearly looking for help

[sonic summit]

none of these pokemon are viable, please restart from scratch
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-doubles-ou-metagame-discussion-mega-metagross-suspect.3720802/post-9605589

best sleeper would be amoonguss, nothing else is really that great or even usable i fear

[tropic crane]

more for fun team than competitive, trying to avoid amoongus

[sonic summit]

rule 4 #1030567099703242903 message

[tropic crane]

well then where else do i get my team rated..

i am trying to get it optimized, just with the pokemon i got, or willing to replace a few

[solemn zodiac]

you can ask in compgens

the rmt channels are for serious teams only

[swift remnant]

https://pokepast.es/14883dc71e3f527a

nd Ubers

[solemn zodiac]

what the fightceus

does fightceus accomplish anything of note here

also i’m not sure if choice yveltal is a good idea on HO

[swift remnant]

i just wanted a good offensive type on my arceus that my team doesnt already have

[swift remnant]

oh, what item is best for it, wanted to kill marshadows with it

[low juniper]

Dont use fightceus

Also dont use specs yvel on HO

Just dont use specs yveltal actually

Also how do u beat LO yveltal on this team

Or scarf yvel

[low juniper]

No

[swift remnant]

ill switch to electric with liquidation supercell slam and flare blitz

[low juniper]

Bro thats just as bad

[swift remnant]

aw

[low juniper]

Just use ddance groundceus

Earthquake stone edge

Then whatever

Like recover or taunt

[swift remnant]

good idea

instead of yveltal ill go kyurem white with scarf to counter yvel?

[low juniper]

How does

Kyurem white beat yvel

[swift remnant]

ice moves

[low juniper]

U cant even switch in

Esp if ur taking hazard damage

[swift remnant]

then what beats it

[low juniper]

Zacian

[swift remnant]

oh right

crowned or not

i was also thinking of adding last respects basculegion

[low juniper]

obv

[hazy remnant]

basculegion has some potential in the tier but as of now it’s incredibly difficult to build around and not recommended in this team

[swift remnant]

k

[distant hearth]

You'd also want Tera Steel on Shuckle so it can situationally block Glimmora's Mortal Spin
The EV spread of Mega Mewtwo Y also leaves it vulnerable to Marshadow, you'd want an EV spread of 88 Def / 244 SpA / 176 Spe to avoid a OHKO from Life Orb Shadow Sneak while also still outspeeding Eternatus

[swift remnant]

i always use my terastallize for attacking pokemons to hit harder tho

changed mewtwo evs tysm

[distant hearth]

Well, you shouldn't usually Terastallize it, but it provides a use in very rare scenarios, especially as keeping webs up can define how the match goes

[uncut gulch]

nat dex mono ground https://pokepast.es/cce4c6f296199a60

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @rocky saffron, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[uncut gulch]

https://pokepast.es/d718e3a65cc4b3b5

was missing a few things

[atomic salmon]

Heyy i believe you are the guy that I was helping in the NDM Room. Dope team the thing i would only change is what i said in the Room and that is to change the Clodsire evs to this.
Clodsire @ Black Sludge
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Careful Nature

• Earthquake
• Poison Jab
• Toxic Spikes
• Recover
  This allows Clod to avoid a 2hko from Meowscarada and Choice Scarf Greninja's Ice Beam. other than that great team 😄

[uncut gulch]

oh hey your the guy who just helped me build my team

thanks again

yeah i just fixed clods evs

[atomic salmon]

glad i can help and good luck laddering!

[unkempt jacinth]

A 2hko from meow? I guess you avoid the 2hko from flower trick, but that is still taking like 90-100% from triple axel

[swift remnant]

question, for natdex ubers my smeargle is using spore stealth rocks and sticky web, what shoul;d i use for my fourth move?

[tropic scroll]

spkn

spin

[swift remnant]

mortal?

[tropic scroll]

rapid imo

mortal is also fine

but i dont like being spin blocked by ndm

vs webs stuff

[swift remnant]

i was actually thinking abt memento

[tropic scroll]

ur dying anyways

and ur not gna be fast enough to memento well

can also run taunt over rocks to block foggers

[distant hearth]

Generally Shuckle is a better Sticky Web setter as it can afford running a Mental Herb to avoid Taunt an ensure that the entry hazard is set, with Sturdy avoiding a OHKO from anything but Necrozma-DM's Searing Sunraze Smash

[tropic scroll]

yeah

smeargles niche over shuck is that it does better into opposing webs and tspikes stuff lol

but shuckle is better anywhere else

[hazy remnant]

then you have mdiance which deals with them both

[harsh furnace]

https://pokepast.es/37fa7d022cc892ea thoughts?

[sonic sleet]

Told u to change indeedee nature and cress evs since i missed them

Use the smogon doubles dex spread for cress

And relaxed nature on indeedee

[harsh furnace]

I swear i fixxed those...

The team works great btw, it would be completely useless without amoonguss

[sonic sleet]

Supporting mon is essential in fullroom setting its first trick room

[harsh furnace]

They are fixxed in the game already??

The paste is wrong?

[harsh furnace]

Yea ty for ur help

[hazy remnant]

main gimmick was 4attack pdon + defensive lunala but i don’t think it works

https://pokepast.es/5e58a41343d565a9

[tropic scroll]

lunala should be roost not moonlight

and imo with 4a i think ur better off with tomb, better midgrounds into things

idt the damage matters that much since your max spat

[distant hearth]

Z-Move Eternatus is an unset this generation, use the Meteor Beam one instead
Mega Diancie is also out of place as this isn't hyper offense, I'd recommend an Arceus forme of your preference instead

[hazy remnant]

https://pokepast.es/ef3021767017026b

this better?

[distant hearth]

What do the EVs do on Arceus-Fairy?

[hazy remnant]

helps vs lorb yvel

forgot what it outsped

[tropic scroll]

N z is still cash

not firium though im not too big on that

but dragonium

beam etern outside of ho is also hella iffy, theres a lack of pressure on arc ground and not enough ways to wear stuff down for it / take advantage of it breaking / ways to prevent it from being worn down

[tropic scroll]

no point in lunala with physdef zyg already

zyg does what lunala does for the most part

ud be better off with making it a hooh, making arc fairy physdef, and making etern a different set

and make etern drag z or a different set at least

[hazy remnant]

im getting two conflicting answers one of y’alls saying ztern is fraudulent while the other is saying it isnt

[tropic scroll]

z fire is fraudulent until people start using defensive ndm more

and even then in a spikes pdon tier it is not hard to pressure it

z drag is fine

[distant hearth]

I'd also have to ask what Dragon Pulse on PDon is for

[tropic scroll]

p sure glimm recommended it

to hit gira o harder while still pressuring zyg and mence

[distant hearth]

Firium Z is the one that is sus, other Z-Crystals are yet to be explored

[tropic scroll]

although im not big on it here, i think u have more than enough for gira o (and your rocker is fairyceus, so its taking rocks every time)

pressuring spd zyg is much more important here

so im on the hp ice train for that

[tropic scroll]

i have explored z drag.

it is Fire.

[uncut gulch]

https://pokepast.es/6b76562d0ac4e340 National Dex Mono Grass
https://pokepast.es/009b6cd98497939e National Dex Mono Flying
https://pokepast.es/767fc3675edb30f3 National Dex Mono Water (Rain)
https://pokepast.es/353d697d2007c7a6 National Dex Mono Normal
https://pokepast.es/b8bd678465d5c656 National Dex Mono Rock
https://pokepast.es/5dd21a57d9f463fb National Dex Mono Ice
https://pokepast.es/15220bc53861bdfe National Dex Mono Ground (Sand)

feel free to rate

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[runic sage]

ground looks p standard, no complaints there. the normal definitely needs a ditto somewhere

[uncut gulch]

whats most replaceable

[runic sage]

hisui zoroark

[uncut gulch]

alr

should i keep eviolite chansey or just get blissey

also need to know if porygons moveset is alr

[runic sage]

either works, chansey might be a bit better rn but they're pretty interchangeable

the p2 moveset is also fine, could be teleport over toxic but either is fine up to preference

[uncut gulch]

k

[atomic salmon]

alrighty, lets go down the list
Grass: Honestly this is fine I would just change the evs around Ferrothorn,
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Relaxed Nature

• Gyro Ball
• Stealth Rock
• Leech Seed
• Body Press
  allows it to handle subroost kyurem better while also preventing a 2hko from Band Weavile Icicle Crash.
  Ogerpon i would make it low kick over zen for the steel match up but zen is nice.

Flying not really much to say.

Water: I would change Gren to specs or scarf for speed control outside of rain (M pert is really slow.) I would also take out Basc for empoleon, allows for the team to not get 6-0 by freeze dry spam + its a great Special wall since the team is lacking tanking on the special side.

Normal: I honestly would just take off h zoro or ursaluna for ditto, ditto is like really good for the team, makes your opponent think twice about to try and setup against you.

Rock: I honestly would make Iron Boulder your scarfer as this allows for you to take out fast scarfers like gren, meow, and sneasler which is huge for rock teams. (also helps if your opponent removes sticky webs.) Honestly that can allow you to run EQ as well to help in the steel match up more. Now this might be insane as well but if you want you can also run an z item on nihilego.

Ice: Not really much to say on it pretty solid,
Ground: Pretty solid as well.
Nicely done! 😄

[uncut gulch]

alr thanks

[uncut gulch]

i'd rather run a different item on nihilego, whats another good one for its moveset/a better one

[atomic salmon]

Power herb + meteor beam can be run

[uncut gulch]

what should i replace meteor with

[atomic salmon]

Nihilego @ Power Herb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 80 Def / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

• Meteor Beam
• Sludge Wave
• Hidden Power Ice
• Grass Knot

[distant hearth]

You don't need that much bulk just for that one mon, if youre that worried of it you could run defensive Eternatus as a sturdier check then go with a more offensive Calm Mind set, and that Speed tier outspeeds neutral natured fully invested base 100 mons, which isn't a notable benchmark at all, generally it's ideal to outspeed fully invested Primal Groudon (307 or above Speed, or in this case 124 Speed EVs)

[tropic scroll]

yur

that prob sounds better

can run my beloved double tox etern then

if cm fairyceus

[uncut gulch]

should i run flip turn mpert

[tropic scroll]

or even cm waterceus

[atomic salmon]

yeah flip turn is nice, can run Flip Turn, Liquidation, Eq and Ice Punch

[tropic scroll]

because it forces hooh to tera to ww and forces pdon in to take that beloved tspike

and a teraed hooh means food for fire move pdon

tbh i like this structure with sd crash pdon TBH but that probably still workd

oh and also forces in gira o and zyggy to dtail it

which pdon wears doen

[sonic sleet]

I didnt recommend it i just said both were ass but dpulse pressured gira harder while hp ice only really hit mmence super hard

[tropic scroll]

O

mb

tbf it does a good deal more to zyg too

i think icer is fine TBH

[sonic sleet]

It does deal more but not that much anyways

[tropic scroll]

p sure i sent some calcs prior where it misses out on some 2hkoes or smtg

idt the danage to gira is that much more notable since

the mon is getting chipped to all hell anyways

rocks + ice do like 40 already

[uncut gulch]

monotype steel

https://pokepast.es/62c0325fb26a519e

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[uncut gulch]

i seem to sense boomp typing an essay

holy moly

[atomic salmon]

hi! im ngl the team is dope.

• Heatran we do not need both lava plume and magma storm. you can take one out for stealth rock and also i would put Stone edge or power gem over flash cannon and make heatran specially defensive. The team needs a special wall and Stone edge or Power Gem helps against Zard Y and Volcarona.
• I would take out B press for Spikes, to make this team into a hazard stacking steel team which is really strong. Most of the time/matches your opp is swaping constantly but if you want to keep b press that is fine as well.
• Drill is not bad but i would put treads over drill, great speed and access to ice spinner to take on Lando-I and friends is appreciated. this also gives you a rapid spinner as well. EQ, Stone edge, Ice Spinner and Rapid spin. You can honestly double up on scarfers since it outspeeds scarf landos or you can rock heavy duty boots.
• Or if you opt to go scarf treads, i would go for Fairy Z Gholdengo with dazzling gleam. if its not Gravity Lando making a pain for steel teams its Z kommo-o. Gholdengo from full can survive a +1 flamethrower from kommo-o and revenge kill it back with z fairy gleam which is huge.

Rest looks good to me. well done and like always happy gaming!

[uncut gulch]

alr

thanks

[atomic salmon]

also technician on m sciz like as its base ability as well

[uncut gulch]

yeah but light metal in base reduces weight based move dmg

like maybe low kick

and he gets it in mega regardless

its really just incase he doesnt have a free switch i guess

[atomic salmon]

low kick will not be a problem honestly, anything you more than likely always swapping to corvi on low kicks

[uncut gulch]

yeah but its nice to have

since when i inevitably mega him right after he switches in he gets technician

[tropic scroll]

tbf the weight based move interactions are very specific and random but

tech is generally useless, and can be worse in stuff like if he somehow fights a ditto (idk how relevant that is but giving it tech is still worse than giving it light metal)

n if ur gonna mega anyways all the time the damage boost from tech isnt gonna matter anyways

[uncut gulch]

technicians only use is bullet punch anyways

atleast for his moveset atm

[keen zephyr]

Ditto is amazing on Normal

So yes it's relevant as Normal is an ok type and easy to ladder with

[grand spear]

Ditto is an auto-include

on normal

[keen zephyr]

Most of the time yes

[random bluff]

anyone willing to help me prep for a draft battle i got later today

[charred gale]

https://pokepast.es/c65628d9629da001

[solemn zodiac]

w

[hazy remnant]

what format is this

[charred gale]

ubersnatdex

[hazy remnant]

half of your team does not have viable pokemon

[charred gale]

ohw

what tier is it viablefor

[hazy remnant]

and lugia isnt that viable either only working in incredibly fringe teams

dont tier the build, build for a tier

[charred gale]

ohw

[hazy remnant]

if you want to make an nduber team use a sample and learn the meta, if you want an ndou team do the same thing but with ndou samples

[charred gale]

where can i see ther sample teams

could u send me the link

[hazy remnant]

ye

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-resources-thread.3712170/

[charred gale]

oh is ther a tier with ubers where groudon and kyogre is banned?

[low juniper]

Yeah ou

[charred gale]

in ou all the teams look the same

[low juniper]

Goes so hard

[low juniper]

Capp

[charred gale]

realllyy

all teams have tje gliscor

[hazy remnant]

uubers

[charred gale]

https://pokepast.es/18e01c05ad15d2d8 this team better for ubers?

[low juniper]

no

[hazy remnant]

volcarona meowscarada and corviknight are not viable

garg is fringe viable alongside pex (unsure abt pex actually)

[charred gale]

what should i replace them with

[hazy remnant]

use a sample team when half a team is filled with unviable mons you should prolly learn how to pilot a meta team before building

[grand spear]

National Dex Monotype Mono Dark
Incineroar is EVd to be 3HKO'd by Brian Hands Drain Punch
https://pokepast.es/f2ac7ef3df3ea2d0

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @rocky saffron, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[noble hinge]

https://pokepast.es/30870bfcf77e89f2 mono ground team, how do i ease the flying mu

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @rocky saffron, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic salmon]

Take off Gliscor and add in Mamoswine or Sandy Shocks to the team. team can also use a Scarfer it is relatively slow. You can honestly add both shocks and mamoswine to the team, and take out Gliscor and Ting Lu. Lando-i is already filling in the Ground Flying wall breaking role and both Ting-Lu and Quag has Stealth Rock on your team. Both is basically comepete for the slot which i thing Quagsire will have a better spot due to unaware. So adding in Mamoswine and Sandy shocks can ease the flying match up. https://pokepast.es/7efc4427eb040824 something like this. Scarf Sandy for speed control while band mamo is for immediate wallbreaking. Change the Clod evs to deal with Meowscarada better. hope this helps

[noble hinge]

thank u thank u

challenged someone that i could beat their flying team with ground lol

[somber rain]

Ubers goes here right
Anyways i made a natdex ou rain team with arctovish n decided it wouldnt hurt to change to ubers n use dracovish

https://pokepast.es/553defb5b1cbd636

[hazy remnant]

it does hurt actually rain and dracovish are unviable in ndubers

[somber rain]

Ah oki

[hazy remnant]

👍

Primal groudon and kyogre just kinda

invalidates it completely

[somber rain]

Yea but once u kill them cant u just reset rain

[hazy remnant]

easier said than done

none of these mons are sufficiently able to kill pogre or pdon and the two primals just obliterate you

[somber rain]

I can ohko pogre with vish

[hazy remnant]

and when you build a team using mons that counter them atp it’s not rain

[somber rain]

Tbf i did once so good enough

[hazy remnant]

pdon

pdon is the reason vish is invalidated

pogre just stops rain and other weather teams by proxy

[somber rain]

I see

Wait wouldnt pdon be countered by one or two earth powers
Provided it can switch into a levitate/flying type but as long as i have counters to those on the same mons it would be countered right

Also if u were to do the math on rends base power after desolate wouldnt it still be still like x2 or 3 battle power assuming i outsped pdon

[hazy remnant]

wdym 2x

rend straight up doesn’t work

water type moves don’t work in harsh sunlight

[somber rain]

Oh

Damn i thought it was just like drought xd

Im fuckin stupid lol

But on the bright side it does work against drought users
Right

[hazy remnant]

yeah but there’s no drought users in ubers

cause again, weather is unviable

there’s the sole exception of mega tyranitar stall but that’s an incredibly niche playstyle

[distant hearth]

The only time weather worked in NDUbers at all was with Koraidon, which was broken for unrelated reasons

[novel marsh]

I miss NDAG, it was so fun to play in that format

I could go all out with any pokemon i wanted

[buoyant jolt]

https://pokepast.es/ef8a214e402d1365 uhhhh

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @rocky saffron, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic salmon]

Honestly this is pretty straight forward, I think the only thing i would suggest is taking out gren for ting-lu. imo hoopa u and gren are fighting for the same spot honestly. dropping gren also allows your team not to be electric weak. theres really not much to say about the team. dark is already locked into slots and tryna fit in hoopa-u is already dire.

[pearl scroll]

Uhh any ideas on how to improve? I want bulky offense.

https://pokepast.es/e08093e332ca3b9d

[low juniper]

ur missing loads of EVs on darkceus also tera poison is better than fairy

hooh should have 56 spdef to avoid the 2hko from +1 dynamax cannon (from etern)

ndm only needs 40 def to live banded sneak (from marsh)

what does that pdon spread do

what does that zyg spread do

[hazy remnant]

adding on:
darkceus could probably run toxic over will O, hooh could run toxic (maybe bbird) over eq,

[pearl scroll]

Damn I forgor the evs

[pearl scroll]

The other two evs are random or just placeholders, so I definitely need help on that…

Any ideas for Pdon and zygarde spreads?

[tropic scroll]

unec is bad outside of ho and if u want to use spd zyg u need better checks to the grounds

and something better into marsh too

[pearl scroll]

I did not realize the marsh weakness either…

Is HO still alive after xern ban?

[pearl scroll]

Fairyceus maybe?

I dunno actually I wanna keep Darkceus

It’s better now that xern is gone

[tropic scroll]

ho is the best playstyle in the tier

[pearl scroll]

It’s still the best?

Wow

Well anyways I need a powerful special breaker to beat zygarde

Pdon can’t beat it

I have been using that covert cloak arceus one for a while

But now that xern is gone I can’t even beat zygarde

[distant hearth]

Nah, HO took a hit with Xerneas gone, but offense is generally best if you're not running fat as there's a ton of sweepers that abuse passivity

[pearl scroll]

Now how do you beat zygarde

Powerful breaker? Not when I got a speed boost and Tera water.

[distant hearth]

Special breakers mainly, Arceus formes with Refresh also annoy it quite a bit

[tropic scroll]

Yes

[pearl scroll]

I guess I gotta get my max special attack primal kyogre now

[grand spear]

M-Latias + Cyclizar Fat
https://pokepast.es/c9be45de211ff0cd

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[low juniper]

wait how do u beat iron valiant..

swords dance

valiant

[grand spear]

well why do you think im here

[grand spear]

The team isn't great that's why i want to get it rated

[low juniper]

use dragalge trust

[atomic salmon]

Iron Head over Eq on Roaring moon to deal with valiant (one of your best checks to it.) Pivoting is nice yeah but if you find yourself either not clicking it often or the team is losing to poison in general, put Eq or U-turn in that slot. Kyurem if running Sub, you honestly want boots or leftovers and add in roost for the longevity. E belt not beneficial especially on a sub set due to the lack of recovery/being wear down by hazards. Set is off as well as well, clicking D Meteor behind a sub, you will just be hitting like a wet noodle afterwards. The team lacks immediate power so i would do a standard choice specs set on it.
Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature

• Draco Meteor
• Earth Power
• Freeze-Dry
• Focus Blast
  Ik this team is around m lati and cyclizar so i will not say to change it, instead just make cyc a offensive spinner. Can be Rapid Spin, Knock Off, U-turn, Iron head. Max attack max speed jolly nature. Item can be steel z if anything.
  Happy gaming

[grand spear]

Thank you v much

[atomic salmon]

np!

[grand spear]

ig I can change cyc / mlati tho

If it would make the team better

Even if it was originally built around it

[grand spear]

After testing this I have found that I can't really beat celesteela due to no taunt or hp fire

and hoodra not doing much with tbolt

And also struggles into ferro

[hazy remnant]

ndubers pursuit marsh + banded ray offense

https://pokepast.es/b9d4e58ae7f838d1

[grand spear]

should I go Mystical Fire on mlati over aura sphere

[tropic scroll]

what is your marshadow switch in

[hazy remnant]

nonexistant

[tropic scroll]

u also have double rocks

[hazy remnant]

oh dang

didn’t notice that

[atomic salmon]

honestly you can just add in raging bolt if you want to make the team better, you kind of just picking what you win against and what you lose against. but yeah m fire can help you. You can like run a comp like M lati, garchomp, hoodra, moon, kyurem, and like filler if you want to keep lati honestly if you want hazard removal for the team you have lati for that. cyclizar is really bad now. like its sole purpose was shed tail and now since its banned its really bad for the mon ik you want the team with it but i would highly take it out for something else its not worth it.

[grand spear]

Alr but how can I slot removal on lati

[distant hearth]

Arceus-Fairy is a good switch-in to Marshadow in general, just change the EV spread especially considering you already have Ho-Oh to check most other specially offensive stuff

Thunder Wave is weird on Palkia-O, I'd suggest to just run Draco Meteor over that

There's also a weird lack of setup at all for a team meant to lean to the offensive side, would recommend Calm Mind Arceus-Fairy and maybe Bulk Up Marshadow

[tropic scroll]

i think twave is kinda valid on palk

lets u actually beat support arcs

via cheese

[low juniper]

What cheese

[sonic sleet]

Parahax

[low juniper]

Yeah but u dont have sub

[sonic sleet]

Fairyceus cant rly fit refresh on most sets so

[pearl scroll]

Do we still need all the spdef evs once xerneas is gone?

[tropic scroll]

eternatus

[distant hearth]

The current spread for Ho-Oh is intended to avoid a 2HKO from +1 Dynamax Cannon from Eternatus, yeah
It sure is funny that it's barely any different from the spread intended for Xerneas, yet still viable with the minor change

[low juniper]

u could go 44 spdef to avoid the ohko from modest palkia-o's hydro pump

[lusty wadi]

https://pokepast.es/5d746aaf57bb7832

natdex AG

im in a small tournament with ubers and above banned

[low juniper]

no arbitrary rules

aka "no legendaries" rule is banned

[solemn zodiac]

whats the point of ndag if you ban ubers and above LMAO

[lusty wadi]

wdym by that

[hazy remnant]

we rate smogon formats / vgc, slapping a rule like “no legendaries” is considered arbitrary as a tier doesnt implement it

therefore we cannot aid you

you must be willing to have your team optimized without arbitrary rules

[lusty wadi]

i see

[lusty wadi]

arent some legendaries below ubers?

[hazy remnant]

wdym

there are yes

smogon does not differentiate between “legendary” “mythical” and “nonlegendary” when speaking through competitive terms as those dont entirely dictate whether a mon is unviable, viable, or banworthy

[lusty wadi]

i only mentioned a certain tier and above is banned

[hazy remnant]

yeah

which also counts as arbitrary

because why bother playing NDAG then

[lusty wadi]

so could u rate it if its theorectically in natdex OU

or below