NatDex OU Rates

[gentle trench]

should fry stall up

knock + rocks with a cm lele should grill most stalls as soon as u chip glisc like at all

[nocturne summit]

does woger seem annoying?

[gentle trench]

should be managable with pecha + defensive corv

[nocturne summit]

also I'm torn btw full spe or def pech

[gentle trench]

uh idt u particularly need the speed for tusk on this

caus u dont rly care abt keeping hazards up that much on this caus ur only running rocks

so id js go defensive

and then mayb spd corv for like mdia / lele

[nocturne summit]

remind me what was the spe investment you need on pech to outspeed full sped gambit

[gentle trench]

28 speed

no timid

[nocturne summit]

ok thx

[nocturne summit]

btw does ghold z look rough?

[gentle trench]

uh i think its workable with av mola pivot into lu

u js gotta bait luh z out

with mola into flip

it prolly trades 1 for 1 into u tho

[nocturne summit]

tbf was concerned since I have nothing that offensive pressures it

[summer magnet]

https://pokepast.es/31d0e7ea8f82d8f8 how is this team?

[nocturne summit]

has issues but should be fixable, I don't see the point m-sharpedo here like just m-zard y, I love scov but in most cases it's a downgrade of venu, and with only having it's stabs you're walled by any dragon type, what are the specific evs on hatt and tork? would recommend just using the smogon set, also that might be personal preference but just go bolt instead of dnite to have more sun abusers
probably something like this https://pokepast.es/b6fa5607a325be5b you can go rapid spin on tusk if your that scared about zard but wouldn't really recommand it you're better off with cc or knock off imo but you see for yourself

[summer magnet]

okok thank you on the adjustments

is there any other pokemon capable of replacing bolt?

[nocturne summit]

as a sun abuser? to be fair the better ones are tusk and bolt since they get the boost but you can try out something like volc

[summer magnet]

volc?

[nocturne summit]

the fat moth

[summer magnet]

oh okokok

aite thankls2

[nocturne summit]

np

[gentle trench]

General rule of thumb double sun setters is od

u don't need yard and tork

since it seems ur going down full sun route I'd drop yard

I'd prolly drop it for a diff flying, plenty of stuff works

[nocturne summit]

I mean is it neccesery bad?

[gentle trench]

i mean yeah ur kinda js stacking roles in a way u rly dont need to

much better js to free a slot up

[nocturne summit]

I mean they can go for something dnite or torn and make bolt air balloon

[gentle trench]

i think if u went torn ud go boots and keep bolt z

z bolt on sun is ur main breaker on this structure

[nocturne summit]

yeah that can work to

[gentle trench]

also smth like a balloon ghold would be nice on this i think

or mayb stack grounds with scarfdo

both seem fine

also side note but u deffo sitll want spin on tusk

even with hatt

[nocturne summit]

if they're going the torn route it should probably be utility with knock off...etc, tbh never was a fan of np torn since other then the big damage with z otherwise was heavily relient on rng to hit since none of it moves are accurate

[nocturne summit]

yeah I did mention it but idt it's a must really

[gentle trench]

it def is on sun

hatt isnt enough

espec given ur version had a yard on it

[nocturne summit]

tork has spin

[gentle trench]

tork is like bottom 1 spinners oat

ud be better off running wisp tork and spin 4a tusk

https://pokepast.es/78c54f7d96bc5df7 mayb more along these lines but it would need ironing our

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @vague hemlock. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gentle trench]

zlamn whys it always do that

[nocturne summit]

half of the time it doesn't ping when someone actually posts their team 😭

[gentle trench]

rip

[nocturne summit]

feel like you still need physical pressure

[gentle trench]

torn could be a scarf lando v easily

this was js since u were talking abt torn

[nocturne summit]

sure ig, although scarf lando is kind of a fruad these days but it still works

wait it has knock off right?

[gentle trench]

i wouldnt use it but yes

and sun is one of the few places scarfdo is justifiable rn

[nocturne summit]

also prefrence thing but I'll go toxic instead of wisp

[gentle trench]

on tork?

i suppose u could

wisp makes it easier for ur guys to setu up but idt tox is that egregious

[nocturne summit]

with decent rng you can make sure of that with lava plume but I go with toxic for the fatties of the tier

[nocturne summit]

https://pokepast.es/9ea48e0924296dc8 does this suck? (really want to make manec work)

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @vague hemlock. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[nocturne summit]

@gentle trench wdyt of this?

[gentle trench]

I'll take a look tmrw, going to sleep soon

[nocturne summit]

kk

gn

[nocturne summit]

@tame galleon wdyt of this?

[tame galleon]

sup

okay gimme a second

what about bootspam

also you are not hazard stack so unless you really want to be able to force some things out thanks to ting-lu's bulk i'd take avalanche or payback. Or maybe Spike/Rocks/Ruination/Eq. Which would be some sorta sidegrade ?

i'd go slack over twave for glowking

and idk about manetric let me look him up

pivot

yeah go bootspam tbh

i know you can't get boots on manetric but surely you can cook some offensive staying power with intim + 135/135 offense

btw it's likely an overlook but he's got 1 attack EV

anyways onto the team's structure

you have two actual offensive threats

who are both EXTREMELY frail and not that fast actually

i'd lose corv or make him a HP/Atk guy somehow

lowkey I could see Roost IronPress Powertrip as a thing
roost for longevity, ironpress cause it's good, power trip to not be walled by ghost types

and you could (theorically) lose defog with the boots

but then you'd be vulnerable to knock

keep the helmet on corv

[nocturne summit]

there is a set that uses powertrip but it's strictly ho screens and has strict structure to it

[nocturne summit]

I mean both have good spe tiers and wea has priority is shard

[nocturne summit]

bootspam needs a knock off absorber

[tame galleon]

weavile is outsped by zama, loppuny, koko and booster valiant, who i think all pack enough to kill it

[tame galleon]

true. i thought maybe corv actually

[nocturne summit]

mane

also nothing outspeeds booster val really without item

[tame galleon]

listen only time i actually used powertrip was on an aqua ring araquanid team all I know is that it hits hard enough to OHKO most gholds without attack investment

[nocturne summit]

also let's not forget the ton of tanks behind it

[tame galleon]

fair point

[tame galleon]

so imagine with it

[nocturne summit]

the fastest thing in the tier is zama at 138, mane outspeeds everything else except for lop who hates corv's chip

[tame galleon]

let me check mane's coverage again

garg ?

[nocturne summit]

?

[tame galleon]

garg could do some nasty stuff with salt cure
let me check if you can ohko it

i'm trying to think of stuff that could counter your team but maybe it's already fine and i'm just a balance fanatic yknow

252 SpA Manectric-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Garganacl: 123-145 (30.4 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Garganacl Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manectric-Mega: 174-206 (61.9 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[nocturne summit]

garg can do nasty to stuff to all balance/ any heavily bulky team

[tame galleon]

crazy

[nocturne summit]

garg most of the time is either running salt cure or body press

[tame galleon]

+2 0 Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Garganacl: 182-216 (45 - 53.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

knowing that you take 50% if he anticipates salt cure

got me thinking

4 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 270-318 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 127-151 (43.9 - 52.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO

however

4 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 924-1092 (328.8 - 388.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 135-160 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO

there's something to be cooked here

triple axel is ohko btw

but that's +2

so I guess you could try to bait encore with SD ?

eventually it's a setup val ?

[nocturne summit]

it has to be booster since weavile outspeeds naturely

[tame galleon]

it is

but that's the most common iirc

give me a second

holy

you're cooked

(also who tf runs scarf valiant like why would you do that)

[nocturne summit]

😭

[tame galleon]

lowkey run iron head on corv lmao

[tame galleon]

(please remember there might be some guys out there who're running booster for special attack)

[nocturne summit]

can weavile manage as a ghost resist?

[nocturne summit]

https://pokepast.es/ed701fa8813a0ce5 thinking of going to something like this

[tame galleon]

let me check some calcs

again

ok not needed

only fast relevant ghost is blacephalon

i think it'd outspeed all the others

so i just have to check pecha

+2 252 Atk Pecharunt Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 138-163 (49.1 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 228+ Def Pecharunt: 312-368 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

yeah you got this

[tame galleon]

okay now i see something !

double check your ghold's investments

also i think wishtect mola MIGHT be better

other than that it's got better structure i think

[nocturne summit]

need some sort of a special wall

[nocturne summit]

what's wrong with it? it's the bulky set up on

[tame galleon]

well if it's actual investments it's good
it's kinda 2AM here sorry

[tame galleon]

with skarm as physical ? alright

[nocturne summit]

no worries, and yes it is

it's kinda is midnight here anyway

[tame galleon]

huh

well if it works

[nocturne summit]

although idk if should go this or regular np

[tame galleon]

regular np uses what spread ?

[celest merlin]

Great Tusk (Gen 9)

Typing

Ground / Fighting

Abilities

0: Protosynthesis

Base Stats (BST: 570)

115 / 131 / 131 / 53 / 53 / 87

Weight

320 kg (120 BP)

Gender Rate

Genderless

[nocturne summit]

252 spa and 252 spe

[tame galleon]

keep the bulk

you'll need it on the special side imo

you were right with mola

[nocturne summit]

although the regular set usually wants balloon

[tame galleon]

ghostium is listed as an option too

[nocturne summit]

probably will go fight z

[nocturne summit]

yes it can run them but it does prefer balloon to be save from ground temperory

and also have a save np against them

[tame galleon]

you already have skarm for fighting attack tho ?

[tame galleon]

i guess it's situational.

[nocturne summit]

sry had to go to sleep (sick af) but I usually prefer for switching dark types

+2 0 SpA Gholdengo All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 434-512 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

[proper yarrow]

https://pokepast.es/081e1778754e04c2

[celest merlin]

Hey @proper yarrow, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen8nationaldex. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[rose granite]

Leftovers I always think it's risky on Volca since u have sub u lose like 75% if rocks are here (-25% from sub and -50 from rocks) so maybe hdb

And except that I like this team, if ur more comfortable with utility rilla it's nice but I prefer swords dance moveset

[nocturne summit]

subswam can absolutely work but it needs good hazard control

[rose granite]

ic

[gentle trench]

this looks rly hanky

hanky

janky

jeez

like on paper the typing should be fine but in practice u find it v hard to wall stuff

• ur breaking power is v setup reliant

[tame galleon]

its fine (take care), that's actually a good idea

[tame galleon]

you need to check the calcs for shadow ball or equip dazzling gleam cause you can't use it twice and idk if sb can do 20%

[tame galleon]

the humble aurora veil

[gentle trench]

veil is super bad rn

and screens in general allow things to setup way more than this for obvious reasons

caus things r way fatter

[tame galleon]

yeah i know but yknow

[blazing moth]

isnt this p weak to electric

also p messy archetype wise

[hard marten]

https://pokepast.es/bf0a0c039a499300 Thoughts?

[tame galleon]

tfw bug buzz but no swarm

rockium Z ?

you get folded by freeze dry btw

[nocturne summit]

swarm is exclusively for sub sets, otherwise flame body is the way to go and running stab isn't outrageous it's normal on it, also rockium is a thing yes, kyu is tough for everyone but he has a whole volc and defensive scizor it should be fine

[tame galleon]

well i have nothing else to say

it's not bad

[gentle trench]

the volc set is fine and he has 2 of the best kyu checks in the tier

being mciz and volc

this does feel a bit jank tho, i dont see any need to double up on waters or grounds on this

u prolly dont need 1 of each, prolly hsam and chomp

espec given u have 2 wincons alr

needs more immediate breaking power and also speed control

[tame galleon]

volc checks kyu how

genuinely

[gentle trench]

u resist ice and u can set up on it

and have 105 spd

its like widely considered top 1 kyu checks in the tier

[tame galleon]

mfw i play volcarona since I started competitive and always thought it was a mid matchup at best

[gentle trench]

i mean im not gonna argue over it but its definitely one of the best kyu checks in the tier and is widely considered to be so

[tame galleon]

yeah yeah i believe you

[nocturne summit]

resist ice, neutral to ground, is specially decently bulk and can set up in most of kyus faces and threaten back

[hard marten]

Any particular mons come to mind for that?

Oh also are you saying you recommend keeping chomp and hsam or getting rid of them?

I assume getting rid of

[gentle trench]

yur

idt either are needed v much

u could mayb go like zama + fogger

[hard marten]

I was kinda liked the idea of hazard stacking with them+pex but that's fair

[gentle trench]

not fogger even

rocker

[hard marten]

true

Do you mean IDBP Zama? Or offensive

I assume offensive

[gentle trench]

yeah

[nocturne summit]

https://pokepast.es/699cdd7945785ba8

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gentle trench]

i like this

i think cm terap isnt needed id js go ice beam

caus ur glisc mu is a bit dodge

[nocturne summit]

HEY FINALLY SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T COMPLETELY SUCK 🥳

[nocturne summit]

btw can I go cm on koko instead of roost? being told that the team is a bit passive

[summer beacon]

https://pokepast.es/709d65cdf3927134

it has some issues but it works

[blazing moth]

dont mean to come off the wrong way but this is super super messy I'd recommend taking a look at sample teams

[summer beacon]

I get it

makes sense tbh

[gentle trench]

yeah to start with I would just use sample teams

or try and use mons off the vr

[tame galleon]

big root hatterene 😭

[celest merlin]

Aromatherapy (Gen 9)

Every Pokemon in the user's party is cured of its non-volatile status condition. Active Pokemon with the Sap Sipper Ability are not cured, unless they are the user.

Type

Grass

Category

Non-Damaging

Power

0

Accuracy

0

PP

5 (8)

Priority

0

Target

AllyTeam

Flags

• Can target a Pokemon positioned anywhere in a Triple Battle.
• Can be selected by Metronome.
• Can be stolen from the original user and instead used by another Pokemon using Snatch.

[tame galleon]

i had to dt this move with how never used it is

it's just heal bell but grass type ?

bewear seems interesting but

[celest merlin]

Bewear (Gen 9)

Typing

Normal / Fighting

Abilities

0: Fluffy | 1: Klutz | H: Unnerve

Base Stats (BST: 500)

120 / 125 / 80 / 55 / 60 / 60

Weight

135 kg (100 BP)

Gender Rate

50% Female

[tame galleon]

huh

okay nevermind maybe you're onto something fun

give him bulk up or rest or anything tho

i'm told dd ttar isn't it

focus sash turtonator 😭

🍟 🛍️

and your cinderace is alright

anyways this is starving for special breakers

and the sets are uhh but the others said it already

[tame galleon]

nah keep the bulky structure imo

[gaunt stirrup]

me

[tame galleon]

yeah

[wooden drum]

https://pokepast.es/a445d0147237b572

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[crisp geyser]

https://psim.us/t/1770797
can someone gimme reccomendations for my team please

[warm nova]

https://pokepast.es/ff13b2fb6372fce6

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gentle trench]

uh scarf zama is p bad

I'd js go Boots but general structure looks p cool

[wooden drum]

Scarf Zama is for speed control

Gives me consistent ways to revenge fairies

Then again mirror coat alo deals with it relatively well.

Should change it to adamant bc 614 speed is some what overkill

[gaunt stirrup]

Run low kick on Tar

You suck against Gambit

And Drill is just better on sand

Even if you’re not using sand for that long it’s just generally better if you’re running sand

[gaunt stirrup]

Run specs Hydrei for the breaking power

You alr got scarf Kart

Make Aegislash sd and

Use Great Tusk over Clodsire

[gentle trench]

zama is alr good speed control in and of itself

• u have fine tapu switchins, av Mola + treads

[nocturne summit]

https://pokepast.es/b77357ba674f200d correct me if I already posted this

[proper yarrow]

https://pokepast.es/7bc397cff97efb8b

[blazing moth]

kinda lacks in immediate power and very much struggles to break the likes of corviknight

you also have 2 fighting types doing essentially the same thing (speed control and revenge killing)

[crisp geyser]

hmmmmm okay

who should i replace

[blazing moth]

whichever one is fine just get rid of one of them for something that can kill corv/birds

like a diancie or kyurem

[crisp geyser]

zapdos IS annoying asc

asf

dudes so fat

[blazing moth]

idk what moltres is doing w that ev spread but it seems super overcomplicated I'd keep it simple with like js max hp and max spdef/physdef

and like maybe 16 speed evs max for bulky ghold

i think you cal also slot potentially a way better pon check over hydrapple like mega latios or dragonite

or u can slot it in the form of a bird over molt instead

lots of routes you can take it tbh

i think latios is especially good because it compresses some checks that both hydrap and molt are assigned to (yard, pon, treads and tusk to an extent and also just a decent ground immunity) and deals with pokemon that check urshifu (like pex or pecharunt and also zapdos somewhat i guess)

and you have like 2 free slots after that because you sacked hydrapple mega lopunny and potentially moltres

[blazing moth]

idt you did, either way this a bit hopeless against volcarona i think, that malt set is pretty bad

base ttar is also just like not rly all that great

[nocturne summit]

I was torn between it and the dd set

[blazing moth]

this and heatran kinda fucks this too

like you can kill it but it can very easily come in vs half ur team and force out a ton of chip

and u cant pursuit trap so you just make its time easier

[blazing moth]

i think you should use mega tbh

it's not about the moves but like the mon itself

[nocturne summit]

not it but the malt

[blazing moth]

and having 3 setup guys is od

[blazing moth]

malt is usable but base ttar sand isn't

that's the problem I'm seeing

i think if you a sand-ish team you should js commit to mega ttar

[nocturne summit]

:/

[blazing moth]

i think you can rebuild it to keep malt tbh

or to keep ttar as a mega

i don't think i can stretch it enough to have both

[blazing moth]

this looks kinda ok but seems like it's trying to larp a bit as a screens team but without screens

also i dont think we need a fog+taunt serperior here it feels very forced in

[proper yarrow]

ig i can do foog screens serp

ls reflect light screen fog

[nocturne summit]

https://pokepast.es/098f404cbbc457ae is this a bit better?

[blazing moth]

that seems even more forced ngl

[proper yarrow]

how is thar

[blazing moth]

fog screens serp is just like

not a good set

it's bad a screens setter it's a bad fogger just a rly disfuctional set

ur also kinda checked by molt i just noticed

like 2/6 mons immediately threathen it the rest is ranging from kinda weak to it to fodder

ig (taunt) serp is kinda of a stopgap but you've gotta at least chip it/knock it and set rocks before that

i think you should get a screens zama or koko over like serp and make that an average screens team i mean you already 2 pretty notorious screens abusers there in gyara and bug z volc

and you can kinda still keep the pagos there as a guy that just hits decently and compresses you whole hazard game if you ever need it to

tho there's probably some better guys you can slot over it idk

[indigo vigil]

Is it not the fastest thing in the format

Besides D-S and eleki

What would u need speed control for

[wooden drum]

Booster val

Scarf Lele

[indigo vigil]

Oh yeah

[wooden drum]

Mostly booster val

[indigo vigil]

I forgot this was natdex and not sv

Mb

[wooden drum]

Drill is just ass

My Lele answers are ok with sdef treds and AV alo

[gaunt stirrup]

It really isn’t though

[wooden drum]

It feels very bad into Nat dex

[gaunt stirrup]

I mean sure you got annoying mons like the birds if you run ihead but also pretty sure Drill is better FOR lele and Val

With iron head yk

and you have z

it will outspeed under sand

[wooden drum]

I've played around with it and I was always disappointed bc eq or hhp failed to get kills

[gaunt stirrup]

so you don’t got to rely on a kinda shitty Za set

[wooden drum]

You have merit in that

[gaunt stirrup]

Valiant is only faster one time with a booster speed set

That’s more than enough time for Drill to just simply get sand up

and kill it

And if its booster is gone then even better

Zama now cleans easier

only time this doesn’t apply is e terrain which doesn’t have defensive pivots to Drill whatsoever

Unless maybe Zapdos

[wooden drum]

So just drop treads for drill?

[gaunt stirrup]

And scarf sets which you can surely abuse the fact its locked into one move

Yes

And you can run z for more assured kills

and what does hhp stand for

Hidden power?

I’d hope not

[wooden drum]

High horse power

[gaunt stirrup]

Makes sense

[wooden drum]

I'm average enough not to run hp on a physical attacker 😭

Only 1600

[gaunt stirrup]

I think

AV Gking is better than Alo

You lack a tspike soaker

[wooden drum]

Also future sight is good

[gaunt stirrup]

And I don’t have much confidence abt Rilla but tspike is really annoying if you don’t run gking since idef Za would be pretty great on a comp like this

[wooden drum]

Helps ttar and rilla break

[gaunt stirrup]

Since if you keep Rilla you can have lefties and gterrain

out healing sand damage or ignoring it

I want to say you have a fine mu into the birds since knock off and rocks will help with that

which put rocks on Tar

Since you lose the Treads here

This can allow Drill to run 3a if you don’t feel confident in sand sweeps which I can see, although the standard set is definitely sd because otherwise it lacks breaking power

I see 2 nice sets being ground Z sd iron head spin

to break past the alo pivoting into drill

[wooden drum]

Wouldn't av slwoking help with breaking

[gaunt stirrup]

Or sd 3a with rockium z on Drill

[gaunt stirrup]

Yeah that too

Little harder to pivot with av though

since you lack chilly

[wooden drum]

Mhmm

I haven't run into tapikes but now that you mentioned it I'm really bad into them.

[gaunt stirrup]

you can run defog zapdos for the hazard removal if you do go the route with no spin

[wooden drum]

Especially bc za has no boots

[gaunt stirrup]

https://pokepast.es/a445d0147237b572
resending bc I dont want to scroll

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gaunt stirrup]

whoops

Yeah Oger mu is fine with Zap + Rilla

I don’t really like stall with corvi against your team though

Since stall will almost always carry a ground for Zap like Clodsire

[wooden drum]

I've really only mindlessly put alo bc I have an av alo stall

[gaunt stirrup]

Balloon Drill though could be good against stall if you find problems against that, namely into Clodsire so it can’t touch you at all
With rocks support you should have enough pressure against corvi for it to just keep roosting and whatnot

[wooden drum]

Ttar plus rilla normally pressure hard enough although I have to play around corv perfectly

[gaunt stirrup]

Honestly there’s a lot of sets you can run on drill

It’s very flexible

[wooden drum]

I had balloon at one point for the stall mu

But if I'm running glowking I really don't find it too necessary

[gaunt stirrup]

Fair point

One thing I js caught

Psyshock Gking could be ran here
Volc seems relatively threatening

But eh

I think you just run spin 3a Drill

Rock slide hhp and iron head

[wooden drum]

Rocks or SD?

[gaunt stirrup]

Wait not spin

mb

sd

Rocks on Tar

[wooden drum]

Drop what move for low kick?

[gaunt stirrup]

I’d usually vote against it but tbh your gambit mu should be fine ish since you can run idef Za

With gterrain

[wooden drum]

I would have to maybe run idef za to afford to drop it

[gaunt stirrup]

So edge knock pursuit rocks can work

Yeah

[wooden drum]

What spread should I have for idef?

[gaunt stirrup]

Whatever is standard

[wooden drum]

Ev investment

👍

Idef press crunch sub? Or should I run rest?

[gaunt stirrup]

You can run groundium, but rockium is something I’d consider on Drill
But with rock slide, ground is probably fine

[gaunt stirrup]

Sub can be eh with a team that has sand

You should run roar

You need the forced pivot against set up mons

and it’s bulky enough to run it

[wooden drum]

Yeah

[gaunt stirrup]

Tbh you could run what’s standard in nat dex
Although I like the bulk that comes from OU (it’s my primary format, so ignore if it doesn’t help much) but 252hp 88 def rest in speed with I think speed boosting nature

Nat dex za correct me if I’m wrong runs body 132 atk to 2hko gholds

But with the bulk that comes from AV gking mu should be fine although scarf is ignoring

Think Drill handles scarf sets anyways

You can run max max jolly on Rillaboom to outspeed and ohko offensive ghold too

[wooden drum]

I like the bulk on it for the woger mu

[gaunt stirrup]

You have a defensive Zap though

[wooden drum]

Hurricane isn't reliable

[gaunt stirrup]

you just go zap v switch out if it’s sd (you should live one) and just out to Rilla for the revenge

[wooden drum]

Should I run special attack investment on my slwoking?

[gaunt stirrup]

Just run standard

otherwise ghold
runs over you

[wooden drum]

I'll send the recs you've given me

https://pokepast.es/855450652bd1e18f

[gaunt stirrup]

Fog over heat wave on Zapdos, rock slide over spin on Drill, max max jolly Rilla
I assure you, your Oger mu is fine

Esp with an idef Za now

[wooden drum]

👍

[gentle trench]

u have switchins to both of these fwiw

oh paste has changed

this is p cool, u rely heavily on breaking physically

so birds are p annoying for this

[blazing moth]

idk if i alr saw this but this struggles to break certain birds given that what actually pressures them (ttar) isn't what setting rocks

and like half of the offensive core gets checked by them

and ice spinner on a defensive treads is just kinda like not good

ur luring in birds but not actually doing anything meaningful to them without knock off

[blazing moth]

oh paste changed nvm
this is cooler in the fact that ttar sets rocks now but still faces much of the same issues in terms of breaking the likes of zapdos
I'd probably replace rilla with something like specs lele or whatever even latios works, you could also try giving exca rockium z or just rock slide in general because it's not a great hazard control either way unlike zapdos

also that ttar spread is questionable without low kick, just go w the default max atk adamant 164 speed and rest into hp

[wooden drum]

@blazing moth
https://pokepast.es/1e229a87bd09a0d9

[blazing moth]

this looks better yeah u can also try other spatkers that dunk on av mola like kyurem and use what feels best to you

av gking uses Psychic noise btw not future sight

[wooden drum]

I don't like the fact of how

I can't pivot

One ground type and now I have to play like LeBron for my breakers to enter the field.

[blazing moth]

well you dont rly need av gking by any means

[wooden drum]

I was thinking that too

[blazing moth]

ur team isnt entirely dependant on sand so u can use chilly reception

or just kanto slowking with teleport

[wooden drum]

Maybe just the standard pivot with special defense investment

[blazing moth]

yeah sure that's fine

[wooden drum]

I lose to tspikes if I go that route

[blazing moth]

tspikes is like very rare and not a big worry

[wooden drum]

Ik

But still

Normally I would go AV alo

[blazing moth]

besides u have a steel that breaks poison types

and a specs lele

u can js prevent em from going up with them

[wooden drum]

Ok

I'll think it over

[blazing moth]

I'd say your biggest worry is volcaronayou have to be a bit careful around it

[wooden drum]

I can always just make za stone edge

[blazing moth]

you can try stone edge zamazenta over roar but sub is generally better

ig roar helps more than sub vs volc so keeping it is also not a bad option if you play well around it

[wooden drum]

I'd keep glowking for my bolt mu

Run toxic over twave

To more consistently punish birds

[blazing moth]

ttar and exca are enough

even lele helps

but ig that's fair the toxic part

[wooden drum]

Yeah but exa and ttar can't heal and I don't appreciate playing 50/50's

[blazing moth]

what 50/50

[wooden drum]

Draco vs tbolt/volt

Ig it's not a true 50/50 because Lele exists

[blazing moth]

that's not a 50/50 exca and ttar just take the hit and attack back

you dont rly need to worry w bolt of all mons you have multiple soft checks to it

[wooden drum]

👍

[gentle trench]

yeah this is good

I agree, I tgink sedge on zama would be good on this

[wooden drum]

https://pokepast.es/aee7473a06b9ad67

[gentle trench]

if u wanna keep roar or go sub rock z exca is an alternative which could be p cool

js food for thought, but I think ur current version is p solid

[wooden drum]

Thank you.

This is the first ever team I've made that actually is competent

I kinda like roar because it's anti offense

So if probably try rock Z exa

[leaden sparrow]

im pretty new to the tier, heres a probably bad attempt at a team
https://pokepast.es/fb2ea3180ebf5b1a

[gentle trench]

uh u have 0 breaking power and this is super super passive

treads is also dead weight

u alr have a rocker, a spinner and 2 steels

[leaden sparrow]

how then can i deal with ghold?

[gentle trench]

u alr have a ting

js pair it with smth that outspeeds and threatens

the first 4 is probably fine, I'd drop terap for smth like zap and then treads for a breaker of some form

it would still prolly be a bit jank but likely more workable

[leaden sparrow]

id ideally want a spinner but thats negotiable

but above all else i dont want to have to click hurricane

https://pokepast.es/0a756e675a8c090a

is this better?

[proper yarrow]

loses to garchomp

[leaden sparrow]

how, and how can i fix it?

[gentle trench]

u have no ground resist

[wooden drum]

You need a ground immune

100 bp 100 accuracy move

Your team shouldn't allow that to always be the best click

I'm not a huge fan of pads urshifu, I prefer scarf or band to make it more intimidating.

Team building in this meta is very cut throat so I recommend looking at sample teams and checking out what each team has in common

[median harness]

https://pokepast.es/38bf27245c2ccb86
Any ideas on improvements?

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gentle trench]

if molt was js boots this would be fine

mayb even a fog zapdos over molt so u can slot rocks on lando

caus u have no hazards on this

[median harness]

Keep it scarfed or go to rocky then?

[blazing moth]

this is cool but molt should be either replaced but at very least should be defensive with boots like my friend said.
kinda also lacks a consistent gholdengo check so probably go av mola here and replace venu with a ferrothorn or a heatran if youre planning to also replace the molt, which you could slot a win condition over it

if you dont replace molt i think trying out iron defense zama is worth the attention

[median harness]

What other options over molt could i be looking at here, zapdos or other options?
Also if no venu am i going for a diff mega?

[blazing moth]

go ferro over venu if u dont plan to sack out moltres, and you can try heatran if you do plan to sack out moltres (alongside venu)

but you can do a bunch of stuff with the free slot if you sack both like trying out something like swords dance weavile or nasty plot gholdengo for example

[feral badger]

guys hows my team?

[median harness]

Interesting, i do like the heatran option for sure, how do these look then?

https://pokepast.es/0ade0b86f6e3a9fa

https://pokepast.es/c7a74d4a98d69cc4

[gentle trench]

both look fine, weav paste struggles into stuff like shifu and woger a fair bit though

[blazing moth]

first one u could try sinistcha they cool tho

[gentle trench]

sinis could work, lets u run boots

so ur less reliant on getting lando in to fog for venu and alo all the time

[median harness]

makes sense, venu is kinda the main woger counter there

[gentle trench]

which can be a bit annoying

[gentle trench]

caus normally venu alo structures have a fog zap which is sturdier removal

[leaden sparrow]

i have, and there's fuck all for balance teams

https://pokepast.es/34cb2b02f45a052e

[median harness]

Gotcha, would it be sinis over heat or over venu?

[gentle trench]

venu

no need for both venu and sinis they do same thing

[blazing moth]

this kinda folds to kyurem ferro should have bp here

or just have less freeze dry weak guys in general

u can do this one right meddy

@gentle trench

I'm busy rn

[gentle trench]

yeah paste is giga kyurem fodder, also schmoked by cm lele, sd woger plot torn to some extent

[gentle trench]

im not a rater big dawg...all u

[blazing moth]

goat

[median harness]

What sort of set would i be looking at om sinis, boots + cm?

[gentle trench]

https://pokepast.es/6198bd3e229fdd1c i think this sample is prolly what u wanna aim for with that typa structure

[gentle trench]

yeah boots cm matcha gotcha sap sball

[median harness]

so basically set on smogon dex

[gentle trench]

yeah p much, best set to check woger and shifu

[leaden sparrow]

i have this team in my builder

[gentle trench]

yeah it kinda solves the passivity issue ur paste had

while keeping main backbone

[tame galleon]

knock off victim

other than that you're rather good

also you have good musical taste

[gentle trench]

u can prolly play around with some of the slots but the paste as it is does well

[leaden sparrow]

https://pokepast.es/4e9e3b5d2cdf25f9

im trying my best here

i want this team to be primarily by my own hand as an excersize in building in this tier

i think i want a fire type for volcarona

[tame galleon]

"for volcarona" it's heatran.

anyways

are you sure you need two hazard setters...without ghold ?

and protectless glis is a gamble

[gaunt stirrup]

Chomp is brutal for this team

SD dragon Z alongside eq ruins your entire team, even scale shot is a threat

I really don’t feel the ace here at all

[leaden sparrow]

you have to have a ground resist, actually you have to have a ground immunity, actually that still isnt enough

i miss centralization

[gaunt stirrup]

Sub swarm Volc is annoying for this team

[leaden sparrow]

you'll never guess what i added cinderace for

[gaunt stirrup]

Subswarm means it’s usually bulky

I think subswarm is manageable but it’s annoying
My main problem is Chomp here tho

And I’m genuinely not sold on Ace

[leaden sparrow]

ill swap it for heatran

[gaunt stirrup]

I’m thinking of like Heatran over Ferro and you just run something over Ace that plays similarly to it

[leaden sparrow]

what checks chomp?

[blazing moth]

hi can you send the current paste rq?

@leaden sparrow

[leaden sparrow]

last one i posted here

[blazing moth]

kk thxx

[leaden sparrow]

https://pokepast.es/8a700ffca9ac6d8c

this is what im thinking im doing now

cause if i drop ferro i think i get rolled by waters

[blazing moth]

i think ur fine into most waters bar waterpon js w wishfish, and cm pagos seems kinda iffy, it's kind of a ho guy in my experience

this also struggles a bit to make progress since we have basically no mon that's purely offensive

[leaden sparrow]

https://pokepast.es/4dbb92345c48e066

[blazing moth]

hm yea i like the lando

we probably should sack lu though

already have 1 ground and 2 special sponges w ferro and tran

[blazing moth]

sonion

[leaden sparrow]

thinking maybe ghold

[blazing moth]

could work as a scarf yeah

[leaden sparrow]

https://pokepast.es/31bdb6e7b6ce3e63

ferro should have spikes i think

[blazing moth]

oh btw rocks sd lando is normally better w rockium z

to hit zap mainly

fly z is reserved more for sd 3a

which you actually can afford

that or toxtect heatran

[blazing moth]

yea that's fine

[leaden sparrow]

i wanted flyz just so i could nuke garchomp cause im tired of losing to that fucker

[blazing moth]

probably just go z 3a then

i think giving pagos ice beam instead of calm mind goes a long way too

that's basically the required coverage more often than not anyways afaik

[neat shell]

https://pokepast.es/0c74791eb38b7bf1 made a team around tspikes iron moth, any edit ideas?

won 2 games with it at 1700+ but thats not enough testing to know if its good obvs so just want some thoughts on it

[median harness]

regarding this sinis heatran version could there be options of going something like scarf lele & smn like boots zapd over lando?

https://pokepast.es/1c8e0cdbb851575b

[blazing moth]

rly nice idea and interesting execution, I'd say it's basically all fine except ghold should probably be np or else i think u struggle a bit into zapdos
also very, very weak to ground so probably get a baloon mon like ghold (z can be moved to treads or koko) or treads

[neat shell]

oo good point

alr

ty

[blazing moth]

np

also probably make treads the offensive set since balloon without ice spinner is kinda ass

[median harness]

ouu then again thats losing out on a physical mon that it kinda looks like i need, just after playtesting a little bit rocks chip on lando has been a little bit of a pain

[blazing moth]

yea that's doable I'd say go test it out

well actually if you sack landorus-therian you'll need another ground type

[median harness]

yeah, i'm kinda feeling like landorus is very important here

[blazing moth]

less lando but more ground types are op

you'll have to mess w the team a bit to find something that fits both a new ground and a zap but that's maybe doable

maybe iron treads>heatran is a good replacement ground type if you wanna follow through with the zap over lando thing

[median harness]

gotcha gotcha, heatran has been very good for me, but a sometimes inconsistent w the storm misses

[blazing moth]

if you get rid of lele's z crystal give it to sinistcha instead i think

anyways gl in testing I'm off to the z's

gn

[median harness]

night man ty

[blazing moth]

np

[next marsh]

https://pokepast.es/487929e12360f31f

trying to not replace hoopa or charizard x bcs i like them
idk what to add or improve atm can any1 help me out

[gentle trench]

think gambit can be dropped for speed control if ur Adamant on keeping hoopa

caus this is rly slow

[next marsh]

thanks

[next marsh]

any suggestions?

[gentle trench]

could go scarf shifu or boots zama

I'd probably drop tusk for treads tho

[next marsh]

thanks

[feral badger]

guys is my team good what should i change?

[nocturne summit]

bro 😭 reminds of my good ol days when I didn't know the difference between evs and ivs

[blazing moth]

lots of archetype mixing and overlap on this I'd recommend you take a look at samples

since to fix this we basically are gonna have a different team

[feral badger]

i just want a cool team that includes xurkitree

thats my only catch

[blazing moth]

there's probably something in the nd bazaar

[thorn ether]

https://pokepast.es/ab63886292529106 how does this look, and no im not taking out falinks

[celest merlin]

Hey @thorn ether, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9doublesou team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059655497587888158 instead.

[feral badger]

and wheres the bazaar again?

[gentle trench]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-bazaar.3710928/

[tame galleon]

wtf is this falinks set, from the item to the name 😭

go Expert Belt or Life Orb or smth

and replace the darn rock slide with knock off

anywho

it's mid

amoongus and incin have to go

replace em with more offensive pressure IMO

also band court change ?

eject button grimm with just light screen ?

uh

there're better options out there i think

[gentle trench]

I mean even as a doubles team which is what it's for it's completely unviable

[oak bear]

https://pokepast.es/59dfc69fb6d97fae trying to keep charx

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[blazing moth]

it's not for ndou

anyways the person alr posted in the respective thread just let it go

[blazing moth]

lots of archetype mixing here you should probably just sack all the defensive guys here and make this an hyper offense

https://pokepast.es/3b2557c88c2b9a0d probably aim for something kinda like this for example

• 1 lead that does something (light screen+reflect, rocks, etc)
• xard
• a grass/electric type to hit water types
• ground type and flying type
• rest is kinda up to you as long it's a setup sweeper or a mon super offensive by nature, would also recommend a magic bounce/rapid spin pokemon

[thorn ether]

https://pokepast.es/86ab39fe6b069ea2 how does this look?

[nocturne summit]

ah wrong channel go to #1059655497587888158 , although if you're trying to show them I doubt they're knowledgeable about doubles ou, no offense @tame galleon 😭

[amber ice]

https://pokepast.es/95fae1c982f266b6

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[amber ice]

sisyphian effort

trying to make mimikyu work

[tame galleon]

sorry for assuming it would be since it's here 😭

[tame galleon]

aight, good idea

[tame galleon]

it's fine, my knowledge about doubles is basically "you can protect into wide guard, but you can't wide guard into protect" and that's it 😭

[tame galleon]

the second tusk dies, mimikyu is cooked

[white condor]

my favorite team

https://pokepast.es/b9720b77a5dc4986

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[vast tendon]

https://pokepast.es/bbb87719f7cd37e0 mmaw bo

[proper yarrow]

not the mmaw 😭

[celest merlin]

Hey @night lark, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldexdoubles team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1060037469472555028 instead.

[tame galleon]

your team when ground types

[tame galleon]

phantom force is kinda bad ngl

[viral hearth]

Hi people any suggestion for this nat dex monotype dark team

This is my first time running mono so I would love to get some help

https://pokepast.es/550e2628fdcb73ba

https://pokepast.es/6bac65fc70e2fe53

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tame galleon]

replace NP with roost on moltres since you got berserk

btw i think the first one is better

[tame galleon]

by making it max HP/SpA i believe you can take 25% from rocks, eat an attack and proc berserk, immediately heal it up with roost, and then you'll have a boosted attack next turn. or use agility then roost if the opposing mon is not too fast ig

protect got no value on sableye here IMO

band gambit is IMO a bad idea cause if the opponent plays mind games with you and boosts they can lead you to struggle (and likely lose since he's supreme overlord) in eight turns.

extransensory gren 🤔
(to hit fighting types ???)

ting lu is good

hydreigon tbh idk

[viral hearth]

I think g moltres doesnt learn roost

[tame galleon]

90% sure it does in natdex

[viral hearth]

yes mostly

[tame galleon]

but if it doesn't uhh

give me a second

okay nevermind it's the smogon set

my apologies

[viral hearth]

🙁 all g

about the sableye I can add maybe foul play ? for the protect

[tame galleon]

yeah good idea

[viral hearth]

kingambit I might switch to the offensive utility set, the idea behind the band was for nuking faiory types

because the team is thematic like a gym leader team so people is gonna chall me with fighting/bug (volcarona)/ and fairy mons most of the time

[night lark]

https://pokepast.es/1504c18bc2eeebd0

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[main pollen]

hellooo, new to making teams would love having help making this team better! https://pokepast.es/78c64341311f38ee

[tame galleon]

so the title of the team is "cobblemon trick room"
idk about the cobblemon meta, but

• hatterene life orb isn't it tbh
• glastrier is something like ZU
• there are better items on glowking
• the chip from fake out on IH imo isn't worth it
• what ursaluna running protect for ?

[tame galleon]

personally i'd drop serp it's UR
CC/Knock > U-turn IMO
other than that the sets are good idk about hydreigon but i've been seeing it so

althought chomp and rotom have weird spreads tbh

[blazing moth]

!arbitraryrulesets

[celest merlin]

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: #1373406929317269624 message

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for Smogon and Nintendo formats.

[blazing moth]

this also looks like its not for singles which we very much dont rate in this specific thread

[daring frigate]

prot is probably to get the intial burn off (I assume)

[night lark]

It's something I use in normal OU but I want to transfer it to National Dex, could you please upgrade my team?

[main pollen]

i wanted to make some sort of bulky offense so im using garchomp scizor and rotom as "bulky pivot" idk if thats good or na
for serp i was looking for a stallbreaker and i thought i need a grass type to deal with bulky water mons
i can try cc scizor instead of uturn but do i not lose a really good stab pivot attack?

ty for helping anyways sorry didnt get a mention

[nocturne summit]

https://pokepast.es/8e5e978811b9f71d does this suck?

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[nocturne summit]

@blazing moth

[blazing moth]

hi gimme a bit

[gentle trench]

think dd tar is od

ur wasting excas sand turns

theres also no removal on this

prolly js go normal rocks mtar, spikes ferro and fog on zap

then it looks pretty solid although not much pressure is being applied on the special side

[blazing moth]

i think this is a bit too ground weak

[gentle trench]

but that can be worked around caus stuff overwhelms easy

[nocturne summit]

wait I forget that 😭

[blazing moth]

also what meda said dd tar is js bad basically always

zap doesnt need the speed here either

[main pollen]

@blazing mothhi, sorry for mention, do you mind checking my team above when you have time?

[blazing moth]

ping me the the text w the link please

[nocturne summit]

why?

[blazing moth]

ttar and shifu and already plenty good tran checks

[gentle trench]

zap speed is for modest tran

and u have a tar

[nocturne summit]

also should I stick with ice punch or pursuit

[main pollen]

||@blazing moth||https://pokepast.es/78c64341311f38ee

[gentle trench]

suit prolly but ice punch is a fine slot

[blazing moth]

ice punch is fine i think

[gentle trench]

ur better off js with max defense

helps u since ur relatively ground weak

also dont think pecha wants plot on this, only js noticed it wasnt pivot

[nocturne summit]

won't I need some sort of special pressure?

[blazing moth]

i think we honestly slot like a fairy over it or sum

pech as a whole aint doing much

[gentle trench]

u dont really, exca and shifu overwhelm for each other p well

[nocturne summit]

isn't something like corv annoying for them?

[gentle trench]

yeah a bit but pecha js invites stuff in on plot

u could go like

[nocturne summit]

the other fairies feel like they'll suffer more from sand, also need something that has some sort of bulk since fighting would be annoying

[gentle trench]

zama > shifu and scarf lele over pecha last

like personally i dont hate js a normal pivot pecha last

but thats an alternative route

[blazing moth]

zapdos deals w virtually every fighting type bar ival

it and pech js kinda check the same stuff here

[gentle trench]

wbout like bro last

[blazing moth]

ok taking a look at this i see a lot of js very inconsistent mons paired together i think thats the main issue

[nocturne summit]

slowbro?

[blazing moth]

yea he means that

[gentle trench]

yeah and then zama over shifu

[main pollen]

hmmm i see, do you see any potential core that i could keep?

or maybe, i actually have another core i wanna make a team around, do you think you can help?

[gentle trench]

https://pokepast.es/e0c1f8de3a24414b
https://pokepast.es/23c1ce14279d18a5
I had these 2 ideas as of rn

[blazing moth]

the first three is somewhat fine yea

[gentle trench]

nah washer is not in a good place rn

[blazing moth]

although i dont like non scarf rotom

[main pollen]

so like trick instead of pain split?

[blazing moth]

yeah

[nocturne summit]

k then, does ghold look rough?

[main pollen]

im okay with keep chomp wash and scizor but are their set any good? i was kinda trying to make a bulky offense so i gave them bulky set

not sure thats how it works

[gentle trench]

ghold needs to click the right buttons into u every time

[blazing moth]

theyre okay yeah

we problably prefer ghold over sciz tho

[main pollen]

im fine with keeping scizor since hes one of my fav ngl ahah

what direction should i go for then from this 3 mon core?

[blazing moth]

i think if we keeping scizor we need knock off over u turn actually

[blazing moth]

bulky offense is fine like u said

[main pollen]

so like bulky offense is like i should add a wallbreaker and a cleaner now or sth?

[nocturne summit]

k then, I'll test both out, let's hope woger isn't too much since I can see it being really annoying when ferro is chipped

[main pollen]

sorry this might be stupid questions im kindba getting started

(also curious why knock off instead of uturn)

[blazing moth]

zap and zama should be fine checks too

[blazing moth]

scizor is the cleaner we need a breaker tho yes

[blazing moth]

knock off is the best attack in the game basically

[gentle trench]

between max phys Def zap and ferro it's fine methinks

[main pollen]

i see! and how do you pick your breaker from there? do you check what your team currently covers?

or what my scizor CANT clean?

[blazing moth]

yeah you preferably pick stuff that can kill what scizor struggles with, needs to also hit hard with little to no setup unlike scizor

[nocturne summit]

k btw (sry if I'm asking too much questions) but is ice fang on zama mandatory or I can make it heavy slam?

[blazing moth]

rly up to preference here imo

[main pollen]

i see thanks a lot for the help, i'll try building from what you told me, do you mind if i ask you later on again?

[nocturne summit]

k thx a lot

[blazing moth]

no problem at all if i take a bit you also have @gentle trench @limber crypt and @gray lake

[main pollen]

ty bud!

goated gangg

[gray lake]

im home sick today so ill be here feel free to ping

[gentle trench]

both are fine

I tgink u probably struggle more into lando than fairies

but it's ur call

[gentle trench]

get better soon boss

[nocturne summit]

also another thing, do you recommand rock-z on exca for corv?

[gentle trench]

don't think corv is that much of an issue

between zap and bro

Lele version might want it but everything is still overwhelming corv so it's still not like needed needed

[tame galleon]

IMO you better make rotom a specially invested wall and chomp a physically invested wall then

[tame galleon]

well i told you what i thought of it already sorry if that's not enough

[tame galleon]

that makes sense

[main pollen]

@...trufs! (ping for NDOU)hello im back again, ive changed my sets a bit, now im considering iron valiant as a breaker with fighting/elec coverage to deal with steel/water types, do you think that would be good? tbh im kinda stuck from there ive considered a lot of options but havent found out what i need to ad yet

[blazing moth]

i dont think ival is good here youd rather want something that breaks pex like slowking-g, kyurem or np pecharunt

[main pollen]

I like slowking!

Would you play it chilling recep pivot def or assault vest?

[blazing moth]

i think both are good sets here actually

kinda up to you on that i think

[main pollen]

Okay ty :) do you like chomp set? Or would smthg else be better

[blazing moth]

its good

[main pollen]

Epic, ill work on it tonight when im off work, ty g

[slender sentinel]

@blazing moth https://pokepast.es/128bde68f13a8384

[nocturne summit]

actually just realized something, I should probably go lele since the slowbro ver is kinda of weak to subroost kyu

[main pollen]

helloooo, im workin on it rnn, i think i need a defogger rn? or is smthg else more important

[blazing moth]

maybe tmr

[main pollen]

[nocturne summit]

kyu looks rough, like REALLY rough

especially subroost

like prim is the only thing isn't getting twoshoted

and the problem you have nothing that can outspeed it so rip

[gentle trench]

removal is always required

[gentle trench]

and yeah as said this is giga farmed by Kyurem

[main pollen]

what do you call removal? phazer?

[gentle trench]

sorry meant always, yeah u need a fogger / spinner

[main pollen]

oh okay ahah ty :)

im trying to find one that fits well without playing iron treads or that one other

[gentle trench]

u prolly don't need glisc on this

and can make tran balloon

[blazing moth]

kyurem food as stated by meda protect heatran is also bad without toxic so i think first step here is sack gliscor for a corv or tornadus and make primarina another water like mola or samurott since av prima isnt rly good and we dont need another setup guy here

u also dont have a lot of consistent speed control so scarf is another good reason to use hamu

i think baloon tran also isnt a bad idea like medasus said

kinda up to u on that tho, u can try replacing it with another steel like melmetal if you give tusk a normal offensice utility set too

[blazing moth]

hi yeah removal is cool now, you can try something like terapagos or tornadus i think

[main pollen]

ehmm tornadus doesnt learn defog in SV

;(

[blazing moth]

well its nd

not svou

[main pollen]

oh ye right.....................

dumb me

so like a secondary knock off user

[blazing moth]

i prefer heat wave over that on defog sets

to hit scizor and gholdengo

[main pollen]

ye i need fire coverage to hit ferrot aswell i guess

but like do i put flamethrower on gking then

[blazing moth]

what set is it

[main pollen]

one of these

[tame galleon]

i'd put left spread on right set personally

[main pollen]

so like ehh.. whos actually breaking here

[blazing moth]

If you dont use Av dont use flamethrower if you do use Av use flamethrower

[blazing moth]

Show the full paste please

[main pollen]

https://pokepast.es/4cfa3fadd0455ebd !

[main pollen]

yeeeee for sure

[hard marten]

Ok so this is stupid as hell but hear me out

https://pokepast.es/0e0cdb3edfca26b9

[amber ice]

https://pokepast.es/1eefb04b839d3973

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[amber ice]

lycanrock

[hard marten]

(Thinking about Grimmsnarl, Glimmora and Araquanid as alternatives to Ninetales, and have also considered running different sets for T-Tar and Gyarados but I'm just not sure what the right fit)

[tame galleon]

tf are ttar and drill doing here

[tame galleon]

have you thought about mega gyara

[celest merlin]

Lycanroc-Dusk (Champions)

Typing

Rock

Abilities

0: Tough Claws

Base Stats (BST: 487)

75 / 117 / 65 / 55 / 65 / 110

Weight

25 kg (60 BP)

Gender Rate

50% Female

Lycanium Z (Gen 9)

If held by a Lycanroc forme with Stone Edge, it can use Splintered Stormshards.

Splintered Stormshards (Gen 9)

Ends the effects of Electric Terrain, Grassy Terrain, Misty Terrain, and Psychic Terrain.

Type

Rock

Category

Physical

Power

190

Accuracy

0

PP

1 (1.6)

Priority

0

Target

Any adjacent

Flags

• None

[tame galleon]

im not sure if he'll be fast enough tbh

anyways kyurem's the only source of special breaking power here

[amber ice]

damn really?

i thought the g king + msciz core could work something

[tame galleon]

msciz is physical and gking isn't a breaker

so basically the team's kind of a dozo/burn victim

maybe with enough skill you can do stuff with future sight or maybe splintered stormshards is powerful enough
idk tbh

[night lark]

https://pokepast.es/df3b824068bb4a77

[warm nova]

https://pokepast.es/97d7956e8cead2dd

[hard marten]

I got it in my head that I wanted to run partial sand LOL

[hard marten]

Yes

[hard marten]

(I really wanna make this work somehow it sounds so funny lol)

[night lark]

https://pokepast.es/df3b824068bb4a77

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[night lark]

@gray lake

[tame galleon]

in my experience dual weather's just weird, man

like the only mons that can "benefit" from both snow and sand are like...Mamoswine, Aurorus and Alolan Sandslash

and having tried to run alolan sandslash i can tell you that sadly bro doesn't have it

[celest merlin]

Hoopa-Unbound (Gen 9)

Typing

Psychic / Dark

Abilities

0: Magician

Base Stats (BST: 680)

80 / 160 / 60 / 170 / 130 / 80

Weight

490 kg (120 BP)

Gender Rate

Genderless

[tame galleon]

base 80 speed

[tame galleon]

what's the goal ?

[gray lake]

personally i prefer 3 setters/3 breakers, its a lot easier to facilitate especially since hatt usually dies as it sets TR up

also not a huge fan of band hoopa here, seems like it could be pivoted around

[gentle trench]

think if hoopa becomes a p2 this is decent

[blazing moth]

i think the way to use lycanroc should be always as a lead in ho

it's just not that useful on basically anything else since it has effectively no defensive utility if it has utility of any kind

https://pokepast.es/0d651ba3ece4fe18 take this as an exampe

not the best one but aiming for something like that just generally makes him less of a background mon in general

[blazing moth]

we cant do much against the likes of assault vest alomomola or even some fairy types like clefable or lele + hazards

also struggles a lot to make progress in general

dd ttar is bad, hydreigon is like usable but should be paired with more dark types that thud into fairies, clodsire is bad outside of exclusively stall teams

we need to borderline rebuild this i can help you if you want to tho ig

[blazing moth]

lots of archetype mixing you should stick to either sand offense or screens ho here, personally prefer the former with your current line up since it requires less changes and sinistcha is a super fun mon

[hard marten]

Do you have any recommendations for who to replace Atales with?

[blazing moth]

could be a water type instead like urshifu or slowbro/king

alomomola also works here

u can also think about a ground immunity since gyarados is gonna be gone if we go the sand route

i think youd be better off asking help from medasus too in this one since he's pretty good at building sand teams

[warm nova]

oh i didnt know it was that bad xD sure im down to renovate the team

[blazing moth]

i can help you with it for the time being but he's just way better at sand than me so he might gonna notice thing i don't

[blazing moth]

cool! which mons u wanna save

[warm nova]

id wanna keep hydrei, ttar(if possible), aegislash and mola

aegislash is really good at checking the likes of lele and iron valiant

but my team falls short at dealing with sub sweepers/wallbreakers like kyurem, garchomp

[blazing moth]

well its outclassed by ghold but sure aegi is fine

i think you gotta have to choose between ttar and hydrei tho

like they js

[warm nova]

also has zero ways to deal with gliscor

[blazing moth]

dont work together

[warm nova]

ah

i see

well imma go with hydrei

[blazing moth]

kk

[warm nova]

i do admit that hydrei and ttar add a tad bit too many weaknesses up in the team

[blazing moth]

yeah they're not very synergetic

anyways so we have alo hydrei aegi rn

i think first if all u wanna js set the hydrei set clear since it has like 2 pretty different sets with nasty plot and specs

[warm nova]

im going with specs

[blazing moth]

mkay

i think alo needs to be av ir else getting blown up by mega diance and Charizard-y

especially zard

[frosty canyon]

https://pokepast.es/931c7a67beed4907
Who needs Ursaluna when you got two of the best monsters from Hoenn

I wanna hear if there's any room for improvement for this team, though I see the team good enough. Thanks for the team and effort I'm already around 1500~

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @gray lake, @limber crypt, @blazing moth. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[celest merlin]

Hey @marsh ibex, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9doublesou team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059655497587888158 instead.

[blazing moth]

no hazard control and this should pratically always die to a well played bird

super passive for a trick room team too

[frosty canyon]

How it's a super passive?

I get the hazard but passive part caught me

[blazing moth]

you have

one breaker in crawdaunt

[frosty canyon]

Mega Aggron and Kingambit can function as breakers too?

[blazing moth]

no they don't

[gentle trench]

if gambit has sd it can

agg no

[blazing moth]

kgb without swords dance isnt breaking much of anything

aggron just dies to any bird ever

[frosty canyon]

Yeah now I see, well thanks for the rate guys
I'll try to optimize it

[blazing moth]

np

[night lark]

Could you give me the upgraded equipment, changing whatever needs changing?

[night lark]

P2? What's that

[gentle trench]

porygon 2

[night lark]

I think Hoppa is quite useful, but could you give me your take on the team?

[modern cave]

Nat Dex self built team https://share.google/cDf83GIEsBCdFfaij

Im 1100 elo and kind of unsure of why no matter what mode or what team I use i dont get to 1200 or much past it in some cases

+I only run dualwingbeat>UT on M.Scizor as a surprise factor+ helps keep scizor in after swords dance

[tame galleon]

i think CC is better on sciz ngl

do you need aura sphere AND vacuum wave when ice beam's right there ?

pivot zap needs the hp investment

i honestly don't think drill run x scissor hamurott is a thing

[celest merlin]

Error: Invalid autocomplete input.

I did not recognize that name, please choose an option from the list.

[tame galleon]

okay fine

[celest merlin]

Slowking-Galar (Champions)

Typing

Poison / Psychic

Abilities

0: Curious Medicine | 1: Own Tempo | H: Regenerator

Base Stats (BST: 490)

95 / 65 / 80 / 110 / 110 / 30

Weight

79.5 kg (80 BP)

Gender Rate

50% Female

[tame galleon]

i'm still not sure about the specs

[celest merlin]

Vessel of Ruin (Champions)

Active Pokemon without this Ability have their Special Attack multiplied by 0.75.

[tame galleon]

so since ting lu has vessel of ruin it doesn't need the spdef investment

his ability is basically assault vest already

[modern cave]

What would go over it? Aqua jet?

[finite lark]

AV Hamu is usually knock sucker instead of 2 coverage moves, close combat on Ival tends to be better, also aren't you oddly Mega Charizard Y weak? Your Slowking having 0 investment means it cannot take a weather ball and ting lu uhhh

252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 192-226 (37.3 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery and yours isn't even hp invested so it just dies lol

[tame galleon]

lowkey yeah

or sucker maybe

[modern cave]

Might go sucker then

[tame galleon]

btw that makes me think

always favor hp investments first on defensive mons

defense without hp doesn't work

unless you're chansey or smth

[modern cave]

It dosent learn ice beam apprently?