NatDex OU Rates

[nocturne willow]

ok but why put trode in the first place then

if you know its unviable

it just wastes time

[spiral pond]

I was bored

[nocturne willow]

sure but now you're wasting our time

and frankly it's kinda insulting

[spiral pond]

Shit mb

[brave valve]

https://pokepast.es/12b58647c161c236 other than resolute. Is there anything else I should change about this team?

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brave valve]

tried replacing Lando and mega scizor with a Glis and corv

but now I lack speed control

maybe scarf Lando over Gliss?

I also tried something like this as well https://pokepast.es/feda2c5ccd8a7f88 but I had no way of stopping anything that starts setting up

[bleak coral]

https://pokepast.es/85100655aee21cff

What change should I make?

[vast tendon]

https://pokepast.es/c6d6145bc7da831e

[fleet warren]

Someone rate this team for me
https://pokepast.es/bef5f3e6ad15ffd8

[tawdry ice]

Someone help me fix this https://pokepast.es/576c5d8e4684ce7d

@limber crypt

[young kayak]

Can someone upgrade my Aegislash equipment?
https://pokepast.es/4c710ced33a91280

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @hardy flint, @merry delta. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[merry delta]

Not having a complete team makes this a lot harder to rate. Araquinid is largely unviable, and aegislash is only suitable for more bulky balance or fatter teams if you HAVE to use it, although it’s also not a very good mon and should almost never be used even on those styles of teams. Kommo o, at least in my experience, can’t really be slotted on a team like this as there are generally better options like dnite or shifu for these kinds of teams. Again it’s hard to rate without it being a full team, but there’s an apparent lack of overall structure and purpose to this team.

[young kayak]

https://pokepast.es/d457cc8cf5a2b4f7
and this one ?

do I remove someone and replace someone else?

[glacial lichen]

https://pokepast.es/b86177ff1712fb63 I feel like the team is good but there is room for improvement, what do you think?

[glacial lichen]

Gen 8 btw

[summer bobcat]

Its okay but volcarona should always use heavy duty boots and salamance isn't very good when there's like 5 other dragon dancers that do it better. Run like gouging fire or dragonite with dragonium z

[summer bobcat]

IMO if you want to run araquanid it should always be sash lead, otherwise it can get killed before getting webs up. So either change the set and make the rest of the team more HO (every other Pokémon a setup sweeper) or just swap araquanid out for someone else. Also you don't really have any speed control, landorus or urshifu should be scarf.

Oh also you have no removal, make cinderace court change and heavy duty boots

[novel escarp]

https://pokepast.es/a2b546fd6dfd3d92 thoughts? trying to make a stall team

i follow the 10 commandments of the stall bible

[summer bobcat]

OK I will say I don't really know much about stall team building cause it's way different but I think (?) You should have a physdef unaware guy

And either magic bounce Pokémon or way more boots spam

If u read the stall bible tho bro you're probably better at stallbuilding than me so

[novel escarp]

eh im not that good either

i guess i should add dondozo

also i have rapid spin on tentacruel so that might be fine for hazards

i'll put boots on him though

[novel escarp]

alr so i found another weakness

chansey has literally zero threatening presence with thunder wave

i'll prob swap twave for seismic toss

[novel escarp]

Nevermind

I actually can't decide between toxic and toss

[merry delta]

I’m not a fan of this stall, I think you should follow a stall structure similar to the stall sample because that stall is probably the best you can get rn

If you don’t even load that in the first place, that is (which I think you should if you are building stall teams with non stall mons like the ones in ur team)

So stuff like corv / dozo / bliss or chans / clod or msab / pex / Glisc

Or something similar to that, just don’t use stuff like Magg / tentacruel and make it somewhat reasonable considering the offensive threats in the meta and it should be fine

[merry delta]

To answer this question, usually chansey should run both, making the set soft boiled / toss / toxic / rocks or aroma or even something like wish tect toss tox although bliss is probably better at that set

For future reference

[tawdry ice]

@merry delta can u fix my team

https://pokepast.es/c84621f9e7921537

Only thing i rlly wanna keep is raichu

[glacial lichen]

https://pokepast.es/f61b61ec76b12937 I don't know if this channel is the right one, but could you evaluate or fix my gen8 team?

[vast tendon]

https://pokepast.es/828924fc991c26a2

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @hardy flint, @merry delta. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tawdry ice]

@hardy flint can u help with team

[nocturne willow]

Don’t ping the raters, they will get to the teams when they have the time

[tawdry ice]

Alr mb

Jus like i asked 3 times diff days and nobody helped thats the thing

[nocturne willow]

Like I said, they will get to it when they have the time

But from a quick glance you have hyper offense setter koko and then the rest of your team… isn’t

Like why are you running defog corv when your strat revolves around eterrain

[glacial lichen]

One question, can you also send ndex teams from other generations here?

[nocturne willow]

Uh I’m pretty sure?

[tawdry ice]

Y not in natdex non ou

[nocturne willow]

Well cuz it is OU lol

Just gen 8

[tawdry ice]

Oh i readed wrong

Thought he meant like ag or ubers

[glacial lichen]

I was wanting to see if I could improve my Gen 8 team

I feel like something is wrong with him but I don't know what

[nocturne willow]

Can’t help with gen 8 cuz I have no experience with the tier sorry

[glacial lichen]

Np

[tawdry ice]

This is my team atm but it jus doesnt work https://pokepast.es/ab6722c73a1016c6

[nocturne willow]

Read my above messages

[tawdry ice]

Idk tbh

[cerulean karma]

Raichu is a horrible mon but at the very least give it smth like Focus Blast so it can get through Ferrothorn on its own. Probably replace Corv with Lando cuz its just way less abusable for this team and then probably Mscizor with Kartana

and then also probably use sample sets because the Lucha, Corv sets are not optimized

[haughty berry]

https://pokepast.es/e13da3a12ddebcca

its just palafin and barraskewda

do the same thing

[crimson mulch]

We only rate teams for Smogon formats

[haughty berry]

i never said anything

[crimson mulch]

You deleted the message where you said it was for a pokemon Roblox game

[haughty berry]

what message

wtf r u talking about lol

[nocturne willow]

palafin is not allowed in natdex and we do not help with roblox, which frankly this clearly is

(unless this is somehow a serious natdex ubers team, in which case rain is unviable and this is the wrong channel)

[tawdry ice]

Alr

[spiral pond]

https://pokepast.es/b170303ad528280a

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @hardy flint, @merry delta. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[hollow basalt]

https://pokepast.es/2db05dbf69eadec5 am I cooking or no

[spiral pond]

(I'm not good but) what does Bulu do that Rilla doesn't do?

[wild sentinel]

https://pokepast.es/f9bb74e0003b36fe

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @hardy flint, @merry delta. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sentinel]

Biggest issue I'm facing is, Darkrai

[hardy flint]

Fairy/grass so it can switch into/1v1 Bolt

[hardy flint]

don’t use trailblaze mmedi :p, fake out is too good of a move

on it

Also run lefties on bulu, Ur team is kinda slow as well/loses to yard a bit

as to fix that idk i can’t think that well rn :3

[hardy flint]

ur team looks pretty good

i think this team can handle darkrai well enough, tera pon/Mega lop being able to hit 2 dark pulses, tera fairy crown etc :p

[spiral pond]

Did you just indirectly say skill issue?

[hardy flint]

yes.

[warm isle]

https://pokepast.es/32f12c7c3dcee328

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @hardy flint, @merry delta. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[warm isle]

Trying to build a team around Blaziken, is this a good team?

[brave valve]

maybe run defog over stealth rock on Lando? you don’t have any removal and you already have stealth rock on thorn so fog might be a better choice

also, pretty sure blaziken likes to run fire Z crystal over sitrus

he’s not exactly built to survive a major hit

also run protect over tera blast so you can get the speed boost safely

[warm isle]

thanks a lot for the advice

[cunning hill]

https://pokepast.es/a05e61f7bfe10be8 I'm looking for ways to improve this pivot team

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[glossy fox]

When the pivot team doesn’t have a single heavy duty boots

[civic saddle]

https://pokepast.es/c473fefa9ad87daf
Zard y offense

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[spiral pond]

Mostly good imo, but SOLAR BLADE

[civic saddle]

You never click smart strike

Atleast i don't

[spiral pond]

Smart strike beats scarf lele

[civic saddle]

Solar blades cool tecc

[spiral pond]

And uh

Defog

Since dengo is banned

[civic saddle]

You have a heatran and pretty sure leaf blade ohkos after rocks

and also solar blade just clean ohkos

[cunning hill]

Which pokemon on my team would be well suited with HD Boots?

I don't know how much HD Boots pokemon I should have

[glossy fox]

Prob alomamola and slowking

[cunning hill]

Noted

[misty furnace]

https://pokepast.es/834aca354152c304 Dragon Mono team

wait no fuck dragapults uber

[misty furnace]

https://pokepast.es/f8151bbff37c52d8 updated

[merry delta]

We can’t rlly help with mono teams because mono teams are generally unviable in NDOU. If you still want to get ur team rated, just in a different format I think you can ask in the NatDex non ou rates section for NatDex monotype

[spring plume]

can someone help me with creating a Mega Scizor team, so far Im planning on using M-Scizor, tapu-fini and heatran, and most likley rotom wash. Idk what else to put and I also wanna know what spread for tapu fini I should use

[crimson mulch]

This is the thread for rating completed teams

[brisk dock]

https://pokepast.es/eefdc73cd49ea753

short bit of information in the pokepaste notes section

[wanton kernel]

https://pokepast.es/283ee5482e995de8 medikoko (changed black glasses to scarf)

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[spring plume]

https://pokepast.es/430206a76d878760

There

[brisk dock]

little oops, i forgot to make urshifu tera water

[spring plume]

This is nat dex OU

[cold fog]

oops i copied the wrong link hahaha

thanks for lmk

https://pokepast.es/7befe57d8a2e1a09

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[hardy flint]

@merry delta hey man! ur online!

[spring plume]

Rlly good team, I was also trynna build a team with mega scizor

[cold fog]

i made some edits on this https://pokepast.es/ab75d4222b2a627c

[spring plume]

No more defogger tho

[nocturne willow]

Most of this team is unviable and the only one that is viable is limited to stall teams only

[rose cipher]

https://pokepast.es/bf55d45e5e2510db

[merry delta]

I unfortunately have to say the same about this team. Not only are is the structure just… not good, most of these sets are very bad and wouldn’t suit a good team. See, hyper beam mgarde when you would lose all momentum from it, or item less victini, or steel beam kart when it has no special attack, and basically every other mon having a horrible set

Use the samples if u want to learn about the tier instead of just building straight on.

[rose cipher]

I forgot about victinis item

:p

I wanted to use Mons that I like

But I coudnt

Then... I tried use stronger ones

And It also fails

Is my gen 9 team any better?

https://pokepast.es/7b92f880f38d0b71

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[merry delta]

Oh that was Gen 8. Ok but the same thing applies here, the sets are largely unviable and the mon choice / team structure is not good either. The same things I said apply to this team as well, just with other pretty bad sets like work up + counter cinder and solar beam Meowscarada

Please use the samples

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-sample-teams.3714863/

[cold fog]

its fine since its a more offense team

and i got taunt on lando

[wanton kernel]

https://pokepast.es/22b598f763bb09ca is there anything better to replace samu

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[merry delta]

We can’t rlly help with teams with those restrictions

[cerulean karma]

generally we don't help with challenge builds because it means you are intentionally not building as optimal as you can for the tier

[merry delta]

^^ basically what I said with fancier wording

[cerulean karma]

a more solid rocker/fogger so Lando has a slot for Toxic, dual Fog/Rocks lando is pretty abusable tbh

and then on that point I would run a more bulkier lando spread

[wanton kernel]

Do you have one?

[cerulean karma]

the 252 HP 252 Def spreads are generally fine enough

[wanton kernel]

Ok

[austere nova]

fair enough

[wanton kernel]

eg?

[cerulean karma]

huh

[somber dagger]

first time i use this chat ((I didn't know there was a channel for that)

https://pokepast.es/e05b0c37db1072eb i have build a tangrowth stall(my first stall) but the team is weak to hazard + weavile the idea is tangrowth help to check pokemon like ogerpon and the rest of the team is classical

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean karma]

yo ngl doesnt Hstack + Knock Users mog this

[somber dagger]

yes the team is hazard weak my koff absorber are gliscor and skarmory

[cerulean karma]

why not just make the glisc Spikes and have Skarm be corv instead

or vice versa

idg the need for SD Glisc here

[somber dagger]

i see i will try

but so if i have a hazard removal i can lefto>boot

[empty olive]

https://pokepast.es/8b4d6a1e3be920be

I want to know what this loses to/why specific mons are bad or worse than others than just "use x over y"

[cerulean karma]

a lot of the sets are suboptimal so that could explain some mons u struggle against

actual mons u lose to i imagine Urshifu is insanely annoying

have to play the best mons of your life if it comes out

mu towards stall also looks borderline unplayable imo

[empty olive]

OK but what could replace them to counter what checks

Shifu matchup is kinda prediction heavy fair, but it's still kinda playable

The main point of the team is to go blacephalon as many times as possible since it's a nuke

And chip anything faster than it with other mons

Against stall I just trick the blis, twave everything, CM sweep or overheat the unaware mon to the point that I can CM sweep

[deft tundra]

https://pokepast.es/95baf0cb4c8c2b23

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[deft tundra]

I want to know the amount of issues this team has

[frosty swallow]

https://pokepast.es/0456cb2dffca97a8
Thoughts? :>

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[spiral pond]

Can I comment on this?

[frosty swallow]

Yeah dw about it

[spiral pond]

Why Arctovish (I have more to say but I'm just asking)

[frosty swallow]

Slush rush + fish rend deals insane damage

[celest merlin]

Arctovish (Gen 9)

Typing

Water / Ice

Abilities

0: Water Absorb | 1: Ice Body | H: Slush Rush

Base Stats (BST: 505)

90 / 90 / 100 / 80 / 90 / 55

Weight

175 kg (100 BP)

Gender Rate

Genderless

[spiral pond]

55 isn't really fast even with scarf and slush

[frosty swallow]

1 sec))

Boss fight rn)

[frosty swallow]

Fast enough to ourspeed anything it has to

[spiral pond]

Getting outsped by scarf lele isn't really... fast?

And also you're running Naive when Jolly is right there

[frosty swallow]

Oh right, naive is to further boost his damage. The scarf + slush makes him fast enough from my experience

[spiral pond]

You'd probably still run veil with icy rock

[spiral pond]

How does Naive boost damage

It's +speed

[frosty swallow]

Wait I'm so slow lol

[spiral pond]

Also

[frosty swallow]

Jolly is the one I should've been using. Ty

[spiral pond]

What does arctovish even kill

[frosty swallow]

In my experience it 2 or 1hko most things without buffs

[spiral pond]

Like...

Don't tell me anything that's weak to water

[frosty swallow]

Why am I responsible for giving you an immediate example?

[spiral pond]

You aren't but like

[frosty swallow]

We could play a game if you'd like?

[spiral pond]

I can't think of anything

Ok

[frosty swallow]

There's no reason for the attitude

🙂

Pretty sure it OHKO's darkrai??

[spiral pond]

Damn

...

[deft tundra]

I really want thoughts about this
https://pokepast.es/95baf0cb4c8c2b23

[empty olive]

https://pokepast.es/78c5d2b38e1eee24

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[empty olive]

Revised team

[empty olive]

Not a rater, but don't think the team has good synergy

Like gliscor no recovery, no removal with mons really weak to rocks, and gliscor in general bc it doesn't work in ho

[cerulean karma]

Spdef Lando and Clefable are pretty mediocre, dropping Knock Off or Thunder Wave on Ferro is also pretty ill advised since it makes it too passive

like too many teams I see Protect Ferro and i'm just abusing that for free setup turns

[empty olive]

Lando is debatable but clef can beat most spak mons with twave, CM, and bulk

[cerulean karma]

really unsure about Bandnite since that only fits on really specific comps and idt this is an exception when the fogger is Lando-t and you don't have a good way to pressure oppo clef and Lele so it can't even spam Outrage or Ekiller

[merry delta]

This team can not just keep up momentum at all, it will be super hard to get this team in actually good position to win and you’ll need to be a very good player to even pilot this well, disregarding this very weird structure.

[cerulean karma]

can say the same about Blacephalon too

[merry delta]

Blace + band dnite is just asking to lose to hazard stuff

On top of both being mediocre/ bad sets / mons in general

I think u don’t want double prio lop and it would benefit much more from u turn / taxel at least on this structure which isn’t in dire need of it

[empty olive]

So boots on dnite and axel and turn on lop?

Originally I didn't have any priority before I added dnite so I opted for double prio on lop

[oblique sable]

rate it fr

[cerulean karma]

i mean that's a start I guess but those 6 mons just make a poor comp in general imo

[empty olive]

And usually I want immediate damage on ekiller so I chose band

[cerulean karma]

this isn't even for NatDex OU don't waste our time please thanks

[empty olive]

Also wym about this

[merry delta]

Ye I agree with Runo I don’t like this structure in general, feels like viable mons were slapped on as support to blace with no real synergy behind it, like it wants to be some sort of balance but blace usually fits on offensive teams

If you even end up using it

[cerulean karma]

lando is better off running a PhysDef set in order to check the things it wants to better, this isn't Gen 8 OU so there is no need to go spdef when Gliscor exists to outcompete it

and then I already explained Ferrothorn

[merry delta]

Yeah ^

[cerulean karma]

Clefable is essentially the same thing except the extra physical bulk makes it a better sweeper since you're living more hits from both sides

the spdef is kinda negligible there while the physdef makes it more consistent

[empty olive]

Don't I lose to scarf lele if I make clef physical tho?

[cerulean karma]

Clef shouldn't have ever been your Lele check to begin with

[empty olive]

Why not

[cerulean karma]

it's curtains if it Tera Psychics or turns out to be Choice Specs

Lele can bypass it anyways and that's still under the assumption that it's actually choice scarf at all

[empty olive]

Then what mons check lele

[merry delta]

Steels (like spdef ferro / Tran, among others) or combos of stuff like dark + gking / whatever corv set

U still generally want a steel though

[empty olive]

Doesn't lele run fblast/hp fire?

[merry delta]

Those moves are pretty unsafe to click and can be exploited since they are choice locked

Also it’s pretty prediction reliant unlike just clicking stabs

[empty olive]

Can you explain the issue with ferro again

[cerulean karma]

you can't play reactively vs lele so the best you can really do is have solid checks that prevent it from spamming its stabs that you can use to your advantage to punish it or attempt to bring your other breakers in

[empty olive]

Bc isn't clicking setup on prot already a predict?

[cerulean karma]

if you are protect instead of knock off, or twave Toxapex becomes more annoying, Slowking-G becomes annoying, Ogerpon-W is straight up unplayable since u can't touch it well. Incapable of punishing threats like Heatran or Mega Medicham who would just love to come in on a Ferrothorn to cause trouble. You are inherently playing passively with a Ferrothorn as you lack any good mid ground moves to punish your checks with when you could've just run Knock/Twave to support your team and yourself further in the long run

[empty olive]

But wouldn't ferro get chipped down too fast without prot?

[cerulean karma]

it is not meant to be a pure wall that sits on threats

u are tanking hits so u can spread hazards or cripple the opponents back

kinda an exaggeration here but Ferrothorn doesn't really check anything well long term, but that's not the point of Ferro anyways

[empty olive]

Alr so if I did that and added twave over prot on ferro

What is the issue with the composition

I wanted to build a team that brings specs blacephalon in as many times as it can to nuke everything

Anti offense in lop and dnite to beat anything that outside blace

https://pokepast.es/6e7241a24fe22d14

New paste if it helps

[cerulean karma]

if u drop Dnite for Calm Mind Bolt and Clef for Glowking then a lot of your hidden issues can be solved here: more consistent outs into Offense threats like Urshifu without being hard locked into a Choice team or being passive

https://pokepast.es/bc7afee69b24fb46

my idea

and then still has good MUs against other stuff like Koko Terrain and shit

• hella more pivots to bring Blacph in more safely

[deft tundra]

https://pokepast.es/4b7f77f668db08f5 updated

[empty olive]

Is it fine to run oheat flame over psy blast?

[cerulean karma]

my general thinking is that you want Psyshock to consistently beat Toxapex and Clodsire

[empty olive]

Clod would get pressured too easily from oheat no?

Pex could be worn down by shadow ball, especially if you got a spdef drop

And you can always trick both mons as a last resort

[empty olive]

Again, not a rater, but I don't see team synergy

I don't think that kyurem set works well without snow veil support

Even if it did it'd be Tera blast fire btw, just use other mons for tran

Also what's the point of having zard y

Oh wait I just looked at evs

So rn the team already loses to most fire pokemon (ex goug)

Evs are wrong even past that (ex speed on zard, not hp)

And sets are wrong (bu over rocks on sweeper tusk)

Also I'm not sure if zard y is run on non sun teams or at teams not semi-built around sun

So not only are the sets/evs/other on the mons you're running wrong, the mons themselves don't have synergy (none of your mons want to switch into a viable fire type, esp if its boosted by the sun you set up, and your mons dont take enough advantage of the 3 field conditions you set up)

[cobalt skiff]

sample teams best??

[deft tundra]

How is this? https://pokepast.es/6030a46e94be07b4

[cerulean karma]

Run Timid Yard and just regular defensive Lando T. Suicide Lead is hella unneeded

idk about you but SD Iron Valiant is quite mediocre on those Electric Terrain comps I think, Calm Mind is generally better

[deft tundra]

I've been struggling to make my Gen 9 teams not 5/6 special offense so I only picked it to not do that

[cerulean karma]

as long as you aren't stacking weaknesses to a particular mon there is no reason that should matter

common thing I see with newer players but you don't truely need to have an equal split of special/physical

[deft tundra]

yeah but 5/6 is also a bit too much

[cerulean karma]

once again I will restate, unless all 5 of those special attackers somehow lose to one mon then there is no big deal here

[deft tundra]

oh wait blissey is RU and chansey is UU in ND nevermind

Only have to worry about clodsire, pex and glowking which all can be dealt with by psyshock

[cerulean karma]

should be noted that Blissey is pretty common on stall so probo just run Mixed Iron Valiant

or Gouging Fire on that slot

[deft tundra]

Gouging Fire > Raging Bolt here?

[cerulean karma]

no over Iron Valiant

[deft tundra]

Might aswell switch out koko or make it screens koko

[cerulean karma]

Screens Koko is pretty shitty outside of HO tbh

[deft tundra]

https://pokepast.es/e0f47efb033cdd84 Something like this?

[cerulean karma]

maybe HP ice over Dgleam here but it seems fine

[deft tundra]

koko does really look out of place

[misty furnace]

https://pokepast.es/98336c3c5b991423 team for tournament coming up can use coaching for it dm me if interested

[cerulean karma]

this team is in no way viable and you should just scrap it and use a sample team, but what do any of these EV spreads do

[misty furnace]

tbh i have no idea for most of them

i did them for extra bulk ig

[cerulean karma]

then don't fw the EV spreads if you don't know, EV for specific threats you might expect to see maybe or just run Max/Max if you're unsure entirely

cuz if not then its just wasting EVs if they don't change any relevant calcs

[torn granite]

This is my first team I’d like to know what I did right and wrong, what I could do better and what would make this stronger

[cerulean karma]

!pokepaste

[celest merlin]

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180492013660/pokepaste2.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=2d3caf4b912c30f438c896f0b696d9c80bd50d9e5a4a8ed067bca9e5dbf6ff3c&

[cerulean karma]

can barely read any of whats on there

[misty furnace]

https://pokepast.es/a975ee67f0299f1b fixed

[cerulean karma]

still doesn't really change my first point unfort

[torn granite]

I’m about to start figuring shit out on my own I got made fun of for not just copy pasting then shoved aside 😭

[misty furnace]

bro im on a limited dex conisedering its national

[cerulean karma]

dude I liteally can't read how am I supposed to help here

[torn granite]

I also didn’t see this channel said natdex big whoops

[cerulean karma]

its a rule for a reason

[cerulean karma]

?

is this not standard NationalDex OU you are playing

[misty furnace]

yes and no

its the format but not all pokemon r avaliable

[cerulean karma]

if i hear the word "ruleset change" i'm flippin out

yea close enough

[misty furnace]

no access to the likes of flutter, amoongus, and a lot more good pokemon

seriously

[cerulean karma]

none of the raters can actually help here is this is not really "natdex ou"

[misty furnace]

just rate some fixes pokemon wise and ill say if theyre avaliable

or evs

or anything

[cerulean karma]

its such a waste a time for me to entertain this especially if its not even a tier I could ever possibly be competent in (due to the very nature of it being insanely obscure that very few people could possibly know about on Smogcord), you're asking in the wrong place

also please stop insisting because its just a rule 6 scenario #1030567099703242903 message

[misty furnace]

fuck

welp

[summer bobcat]

Why is gyaradis berry instead of mega and why are all the tera types default first of all

[nocturne willow]

the team has already been rejected you dont need to rate it again

[cold fog]

Maybe alo > Samu in this team since wish support could be helpful to all ur mind

Mons

[nova quiver]

https://pokepast.es/4547bac8bcf55c8a my first time making a team, any tips? (other than changing out my water moms)

[nocturne willow]

Well we can’t help you

Mono teams are unviable in natdex and half of this team is unviable by themselves

[spring imp]

https://pokepast.es/5c50b79fd9822b6a
i have zero clue what i cooked i just masheed this together
kyurem is very fun(?)

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[empty olive]

https://pokepast.es/d1f51dbcf21cb31d

Idk if this counts as a team not made by me

Either way I added some changes anyway

[empty olive]

Not a rater but looks like hazard stacking with no real way to punish removal

Also pretty sure some of the sets are wrong, like you wouldn't use both knock and spinner on tusk

Same with like half the teras too

[hard creek]

https://pokepast.es/2139f03e5b0b4e5b

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[merry delta]

Double mega is not the smartest idea, also no ground immune severely hurts when using this type of team

I don’t like Weav + Mtar because I feel that just gives too many opportunities for fighting / fairy stuff to break easier, not to mention lele absolutely eats this

I’d swap out the Weav / Mlop / clef to be something like ground immune / lele check / speed control probably

Waterpon mu looks pretty dire too so probably do something for that, maybe something like ferro / ground immune / speed control works, just make sure those last 2 are able to help force progress

[hard creek]

https://pokepast.es/00e268af9a742789 kinda not sure what to put

@merry delta

speed control on sandfats like these uhhhh

[hard creek]

idk what to do ;c

is anyone an expert on sandfat

[dusky carbon]

Torn last

[cold fog]

i think this is pretty decent

https://pokepast.es/06301eb1d639f16e

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[harsh hemlock]

any big problems with this team? https://pokepast.es/e47528b05aa4d530

i really wanted to use specs lele but i wasnt sure how to build with it

[cerulean karma]

these EV spreads are all fucked up bar Lando/Lele

Gliscor wants spedef to deal with Heatran and HP Ice Coverage better

Mola doesn't nessesarily need the HP to be a phys wall so its more optimal to run both PhysDef and Spdef EVs

Ferro can't check Mswampert without Physdef EVs iirc

for actual movesets I think u defo want rocks on Gliscor over spikes imo and then drop Uturn for Toxic so u can pressure Zapdos properly

Lando can be the fogger if u drop stone edge

[merry delta]

Spdef Ferro is fine for lele / bolt, but I’d make it have 40 evs impish nature so it can take +2 mmaw knock

Also you need teras on ur mons, in addition to the changes runo suggested I’d look at the smogdex for more info on potential teras and evs

[cerulean karma]

yea i didn't mean like full max def sry

the samples sets are pretty good tbh

[harsh hemlock]

i forgot about tera woopsie

[harsh hemlock]

how much spdef invest do i need

[merry delta]

Full spdef

[civic saddle]

https://pokepast.es/61a813d13f53281e
reached 1800 with this team, opinions?

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[hard creek]

https://pokepast.es/66500fdc27fe6702

[cold fog]

https://pokepast.es/06301eb1d639f16e

maybe i should do specs koko but im not sure

[wanton kernel]

https://pokepast.es/2a9d6139771e6e45 improvement how?

[cerulean karma]

this seems pretty sucky into those Lucha HO/Offenses (also you have light clay and not icy rock, unsure if thats intentional)

kinda wanna say drop Volcarona for a Zapdos or Koko

[cerulean karma]

idt u really need that extra power for this team and its much more likely u accidentally sink your momentum on a bad predict than it will actually break anything that Regular Koko already couldn't

ngl I don't really see any huge issues with the team, might even steal it for laddering kek

[hard creek]

yeah hidin sent me a revised version of the team entirelt

https://pokepast.es/37917417e33077c4

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[hard creek]

oops ;-;

https://pokepast.es/27e1d8b533e7f0b5 heres an actual new team

[cold fog]

what the sigma

[hard creek]

https://pokepast.es/6535b103ac67a2a2 im not sure about the speed control

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean karma]

navigating around oppo lele seems like a pain if you're not AV Torn right?

[hard creek]

yeah fair

I mostly just thought av torn was something u ran on faster comps

[untold heath]

https://pokepast.es/517c65526959b130
Tried to make a hyper offensive team please rate:

[merry delta]

Chien pao and dragapult are banned, this isn’t the right place to ask

[hard creek]

im unsure how to fix this :c

[dusk flare]

torn doesnt seem to be doing a lot here honestly, especially not w this set

glisc could be a pain

could probably try zap + gking > pex and torn for a better glisc and opposing lele mu

speed control is fine

[untold heath]

thought they were not rip, where are they not banned?

[merry delta]

ND Ubers probably but the team would be complete garbage in that format

[untold heath]

Damn , also I mainly am doing this for a private league of like 20 friends is there a spot that will help me with this?

We are allowing all tiers now

And I want to make a really good HO team

[merry delta]

Probably a different format than NDOU so probably not

[untold heath]

rip

[hard creek]

https://pokepast.es/4f65acb1653a9ce6 like this?

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[hard creek]

oops...

[cerulean karma]

😡

[hard creek]

sowwy ruwuno ;c

[cerulean karma]

this seems hella annoying vs a Rain team tbh

[dusk flare]

i did not mean gking over torn

[hard creek]

oop

[dusk flare]

i meant more like zap + gking over torn and pex

altho hm

i might need to rethink that

[hard creek]

now im sad :c

https://pokepast.es/f364ab29a9224e2c like this sulo?

I wanna actually have fun building for once 😭

but idk if we are fine now

[wanton kernel]

https://pokepast.es/a5a2447794a95616 does volc need to be subbed out

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[summer elm]

https://pokepast.es/3420ebb3c641074c Really struggles versus Rain teams. Also realised its pretty majorly weak to ground

[hard creek]

https://pokepast.es/f54de8be63310534 @cerulean karma @hardy flint

[hardy flint]

LMFAO why me bitch

i think if hr gonna run bulky zap without defog

u run enough defense to not get 2khod by mega lop

that’s like 252 hp 72+ modest spa rest into defense , i also think U should always have Cane volt

[hard creek]

cant volt hwave roost?

[hardy flint]

yeah what i run

i also think sand in a whole is doodoo stinky fart but

u got this!

[hard creek]

https://pokepast.es/2f0f49caba75ba86

[hardy flint]

also lele x raging might be awkward

might need to swap one of the 2

[hard creek]

I diidnt know what speed control to put

[hardy flint]

could always do scarf shamone darkrai

[hard creek]

or better yet

dont I alr have Exca

[hardy flint]

yeah true

i think you still want some speed control that isn’t only exca in sand

well imo

[hard creek]

u got any ideas?

because scarf darkrai is anus iirc

[hardy flint]

woah, language

scarf rai is pretty nice w future sight support

imo

i had a team that i stole real

w scarf rai x slowbro

which for u is slowkingw

[hard creek]

https://pokepast.es/9fe089d9ef619c66

should bolt be a waterpon

because idk anymore 😭

I wanna build this tier but its always painful 😭

@hardy flint >w<

@cobalt skiff hii

[untold heath]

Lf a HO team I dont want a sample team off of smogon but was hoping to catch a team here

So if you are having one rated here can you @ me as well?

[empty olive]

theres no difference between a sample team and a team from your perspective in here except the teams from here are more likely worse

if you want a unique team the best option is to play with the sample teams until you can build your own

[hard creek]

https://pokepast.es/50c3a30ef745cb78

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[hard creek]

https://pokepast.es/50c3a30ef745cb78

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rapid iris]

https://pokepast.es/a7af88b71c33ede0 had some help from @bronze oracle

[deft tundra]

https://pokepast.es/83be3c6cb782c96d
opinions?

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean karma]

Sucker Mmaw and Booster Iron Val is prob enough speed control to where you can drop Scarf on Kartana

its a pretty mediocre set for that playstyle since its not hard at all to switch into and sinks your momentum hella fast

would just go standard SD kart

or Ogerpon-W actually if u want something more consistent for that role

while keeping a rain and stall check

[deft tundra]

I like that more

[cerulean karma]

the concept seems fun but then you got this weird Clodsire just slotted onto what would otherwise be a offense build

i kinda think going bulky Rocks Lando, and then replacing the Clod with Koko to enable Iron Crown would be better

and then u could just be fog on one of Serp or Washtom since they don't nessesarily need the last moves to function

[deft tundra]

Would gen8NDOU fit here?

[cerulean karma]

ya

[deft tundra]

https://pokepast.es/e9551d57449ed666
opinions?

[cerulean karma]

put speed EVs on Yard

also I hate how the fastest mon on this team is Koko

well played Mlop seems hella annoying

[bleak coral]

https://pokepast.es/82956b1b5e20d5ce

[cerulean karma]

seems solid, might want to consider going Tera Water over Fairy on Crown cuz the lack of good sun answers has me feeling uneasy

i think u can outoffense regardless tho

also would be a nice idea to go Toxic over HP Fire lando and kart seems fine enough and u kinda a better way of pressuring oppo Lando imo'

[bleak coral]

I had planned to use lando toxic or knock off but I thought that scizor could be a problem and another kartana

[bleak coral]

Would it be okay to take 2 with tera water?

[cerulean karma]

probably helps secure your Scizor MU anyways i don't see why not

Lando + Tera Water Crown seems annoying in theory

[deft tundra]

https://pokepast.es/d19b5f700ff3e968
opinions?

[gloomy citrus]

https://pokepast.es/365ffa7698c74109 this is mah first real team (the first four are pokemon i like and the other two i just picked what might be good to balance it out i guess???)

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean karma]

I can't lie that is a horrible thought process but its no big deal since you said right off the bat that this is your first attempt at a real team. To elaborate, a viable team in needs to consider the threats an average team has to deal with in the metagame and how to prepare for them and needs to understand how certain pokemon interact/support each other on a team (synergy essentially). You can use something like viability rankings to see what you need to prepare for and to see your typical options in the teambuilder (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-viability-rankings.3714511/). Seeing as the team you have lacks neither the tools to consistently handle opposing viable teams and synergy in general, I would recommend using sample teams for right now to familiarize yourself with how the tier works https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-sample-teams.3714863/

If not then generally the check list for ND OU would be like:
You need a Stealth Rock user
You need a Hazard remover
You need Speed Control
You need a defensive switch in and offensive check to Tapu Lele
You need a defensive switch in and offensive check to Ogerpon-Wellspring
You need an offensive Darkrai check
You need a Rain check
You need a Sun check
You need an Electric immune
You need either a Ground immune or very sturdy Ground Resists
probably more things to consider but this is the gist of it

[gloomy citrus]

dang thats alot of stuff

thx

[cerulean karma]

these roles aren't exclusive to one mon so typically you can fill all of these boxes if u build right

sometimes u don't even need to fill all of them

[cobalt skiff]

https://pokepast.es/6e6df5758731a0c2

This is my first team I’ve made in gen 9 and I’ve tested it and it feels pretty bad. I’m not sure how to improve it because my knowledge is lacking.

[cerulean karma]

i have a similar structure and I think u want to run Ogerpon-W on this to blanket check as many walls as possible, can just run it over Gyarados or Serperior probably but I think it would be nicer to remove both and have the extra slot be a sturdier answer to Lele/opposing Iron Valiant like Mega Scizor or Iron Crown

also Iron Val always wants fighting stab on its slot or else you struggle to break Ferrothorn, Blissey, Heatran, etc

so just run that over Sball

also don't really see a huge reason to run Adamant Dnite on the Z sets unless they have some random ass calc change that I forgot about

[summer bobcat]

Bro thank you for picking like OU viable mons at least you have no idea how many people say like "hey this is my first time making a team let me use crustle and heliolisk even though they're not good at all'

You'll go far kid

[empty olive]

I don't think this team needs or makes good use out of suicide Lando (screens doesn't even need rocks imo)

Val set is wrong, you don't necessarily need fighting stab, but you probably want to replace encore with cc or psyshock for stall (also replace lorb with booster)

And finally replace dos or serp with some sort of lele/pon killer or at least switchin

Personally speaking I would replace dnite with moon on screens

Serp can be replaced for like paper plane for easier oger switches

And Lando could be replaced for like crown if you really want rocks

[civic saddle]

https://pokepast.es/e13fe7e57ddf321c
Physical spam offense

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cobalt skiff]

So about this I was running lorb because the tapu’s electric terrain already makes Val have the ability. Is it still better to run booster?

[cerulean karma]

tell me the good Iron Valiant team that doesn't have it running Fighting STAB

[cerulean karma]

moon isn't even in the tier man 😭

would appreciate if u don't spread misinformation like this

[cerulean karma]

really don't like how the core of Clod + Dondozo just sits on this team for days.

would personally run Ogerpon over Urshifu-RS and then Scarf Kart over MMawile

to shore up that MU

[civic saddle]

Won't knock off mega mawile + hazards beat it

[cerulean karma]

none of your hazard setters keep them on vs corv

so it just switches into your setters

fogs

switches out

[gloomy citrus]

yay

[empty olive]

my ass is still in svou mb

also for valiant, psyshock is wanted for clod no?

cc doesn't ness have to be used on cm bc you just want chip anyway, but you can sub it out with sball

[empty olive]

yes

[cerulean karma]

again you cannot feasibly break any of Heatran, Ferrothorn, or Blissey if you drop fighting coverage, Psyshock woudl be ran over Encore

[empty olive]

can we just agree on cm cc mb psyshock

[summer bobcat]

Don't rate if u dont know brah

[empty olive]

I know a bit

I was just too used to svou

there's a cm val set without cc in strat dex (for svou)

[torn atlas]

So I have a nat dex monotype team and I’m thinking of changing my victini set but idk if I should

I’ve been running Z celebrate but blue fare is such a busted move

[empty olive]

think this goes in natdex non-ou

[torn atlas]

Shit I thought this was nag dex monotype

I clicked on the wrong sub channel sorry

[spring plume]

https://pokepast.es/34713e415dfd4e74 is this team good? What can I improve

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[charred sedge]

https://pokepast.es/dfd83feb9bb8db7e is a thunder team and
https://pokepast.es/b5eeac4a7d60ea44 is a niche mons team and https://pokepast.es/d83b53cfd5a54370 is a halfway sun team

[cerulean karma]

hi none of these teams are viable and you really need to look at sample teams and viability to get an idea of what's good here

[celest merlin]

National Dex (Gen 9)

• Sample teams
• Viability rankings
• Tournament schedule
• C&C reservation index
• Role compendium
• Speed tiers
• Metagame discussion thread
• Discord
• Pokemon Showdown! room

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[cerulean karma]

really don't think Fini would be that valuable on this team tbh

also you don't need rocks on lando when you already have a rocker on Heatran

rocks fog lando in general doesn't really work that well outside of really specific builds because it means you have to drop one of Uturn or Toxic

[spring plume]

What do you think would be a better replacement for fini

Cause I mainly use it to trick and get rid of status

[spring plume]

I was also thinking of getting rid of lando alltogether

[charred sedge]

idk won alot of gamws with these

At 1200 elo tho

[cerulean karma]

the top of the ladder is 2000+

ladder starts at 1000, 1200 is still a very low number

[charred sedge]

eugh oke

[cerulean karma]

like if you're just fuckin around on ladder then ok but serious teams need to actually follow the metagame they are playing if you are trying to win consistently

[charred sedge]

mhm k

im playin for fun rn

gonna start lookin at viable shtick later

they catch ppl off guard its amazing

Not the eterrain team tho thats predictable shit

[cerulean karma]

yea then this channel is not nessesary for you then as we can only really make attempts to fix teams that actually give a shit

[charred sedge]

rip k

[spring plume]

@cerulean karma any suggestions for a tapu fini replacement or lado replacement I'm thinking maybe great tusk instead of lando

[cerulean karma]

i think ur fine to keep lando if u just drop rocks on it

kinda think Scarf Samurott-H would be better for this team over fini tho

trick isn't super needed

would run Substitute or Fire Punch over Ice Spinner on Dnite tho

[spring plume]

Alr appreciate it

[charred sedge]

https://pokepast.es/fa776730de32dac3 this better?

[next forge]

no

[empty olive]

You should probably start by trying sample teams

Then once you understand the roles of specific pokemon and the general structure of teams you can start building your own teams

Like you start with a base structure (team archetype), then a core, and try out stuff from there. Also, you should really only be taking sets from stratdex for a while.

[charred sedge]

https://pokepast.es/6a61e37a897207c9

[cerulean karma]

please stop and just use samples

[hard creek]

https://pokepast.es/3bc763091c6fdeda

@cerulean karma

[cerulean karma]

franki this still kinda sucks into rain teams no?

[hard creek]

How would it not suck

[cerulean karma]

your water resist is Raging Bolt

[hard creek]

yes because I lose to Waterpon otherwise

unless I change bolt into a Waterpon itself

I'm not sure what to do and my friend ahs been bugging me to finish this team for a week now

I wanna get this done I wanna build in this tier and not pull my hair out man 😭

[empty olive]

Doesn't zap hate sand chip?

Also I don't usually use sand but could like banded boom work over rai if you want to deal with rain better?

With double priority and drill imo you don't need a scarfer

[hard creek]

u need speed control outside of sand

• hidin fixed the team for me

[empty olive]

you have double priority

that accounts for speed control

[obtuse chasm]

https://pokepast.es/7c8e804bfe246591

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[obtuse chasm]

im not sure about this

maybe this doesnt work

[empty olive]

looks like a good balance team on paper but you gotta account for metagame threats

like there's no waterpon switchin (or water switchin in general) without tera, which isn't good

[obtuse chasm]

Yup

but then again

nothing switches in to waterpon

nothing deals with random scarf

[empty olive]

ferro?

[obtuse chasm]

superpower

[empty olive]

that's not a common move

most use pr

[obtuse chasm]

it is common

[empty olive]

iir

[obtuse chasm]

then I have to change mons

also idk how to beat iron crown

[empty olive]

bulky grass/dragons like ferro, sometimes rilaboom (prob don't tho), raging bolt, etc

hard but not impossible

[obtuse chasm]

yeah changing my entire defensive lineup

now I need a special wall

that isnt SK galar and a fighting type resist

because ll likes to run fighting types

alot

[empty olive]

well ya it's a really good wallbreaker so you're forced to build around it

[obtuse chasm]

i do lose to random gimmicks more in practice

or bad play

rather than waterpon

[empty olive]

maybe you aren't facing enough waterpon?

[obtuse chasm]

yeah its all random bs

[empty olive]

it's relatively common and beats your current team

[obtuse chasm]

that i somehow lose to

which means im a noob

[empty olive]

alr, then start with a sample team

[obtuse chasm]

because a good team doesnt lose to random bs

[obtuse chasm]

i know the basics

i frequent ubers

ndubers and ubers

[empty olive]

that's not ndou

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-sample-teams.3714863/

[obtuse chasm]

well it seems like SK galar is my only spdef wall

always

which always loses to darkrai

which means i need to tera

on gking

all the time

[empty olive]

You sure you know the basics?

If you're building balance you should be using defensive mons that wall the meta

Gking walls Val and non Tera scarf lele

[obtuse chasm]

ik what it does

[empty olive]

It also has good general spdef bulk

[obtuse chasm]

but idk how to beat darkrai

or any RANDOM SCARF

[empty olive]

That's not a team issue

And therefore shouldn't be mentioned here

[obtuse chasm]

yeah im bad as a player

prob

[empty olive]

Search up rai on strat dex, it'll give you general checks

[obtuse chasm]

im gonna stick to bullying people out of comp in ubers and ag

[obtuse chasm]

it says its capable of being outsped

but then they slap a scarf on darkrai

ll is like that

[obtuse chasm]

also iron crown

how do you beat iron crown

no answer

[empty olive]

Search it up

[obtuse chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-breaking-bad-lol-lmao-rofl-gif-16433990

[empty olive]

Ask in #comp-general not here please

[obtuse chasm]

welp sample time

wont get me far

prob peak 1500

or smthing

b4 everyone there knows how to beat the sample

[civic saddle]

yeah I had issues against stall so I changed gliscor into scarf lando t, changed gouging fire into wellspring and changed urshifu into ferrothorn
I have a bit of a issue against fire types but most of my team hit it SE and i can tera my Lando t or my ogerpon to resist it so the team does fine now

[manic flare]

https://pokepast.es/b65d72e12d84f5c0 hii , any advices i cant add legendary pokemons and i just want to use good mega-lopunny team :c any help?

[cerulean karma]

can you send the team? im having a hard time understanding the impact of the changes

[cerulean karma]

!nolegends

[celest merlin]

See rule 6 of #1030567099703242903 message

[civic saddle]

https://pokepast.es/7d88e788c6dfde01
I have to tera to get fire resist but it does fine I got 62nd on ladder with it

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[empty olive]

In theory forcing yourself to tera for a resist is always really bad

Because they can always reactive tera/you can't tera offensively (or at all since you have to save it for the resist)

[manic flare]

but tham teams looks great or is really bad?

even if i could add leg

so

[nocturne willow]

We do not help teams built around arbitrary restrictions

[solemn harness]

https://pokepast.es/3cb69588f1b55a3d

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[solemn harness]

Hyperoffense

[cerulean karma]

none of these sets are good on HO teams tbh

Mlop, Choice Locked mons just don't fit period because they don't output enough damage / take up the mega slot or are rather large momentum sinks since you can't click any non-pivot move without it turning into an advantage for the opposing side

most HOs will run like lead + 5 setup sweepers

more advanced / specific builds can run stuff like Choice mons if they can properly compensate for the loss of momentum they cause but idt this team is an exception

some example HOs
https://pokepast.es/ec9cb1ad36e304b0
https://pokepast.es/21c2abaad9c6aa22
https://pokepast.es/e514657e8553d7cd

[solemn harness]

Well thanks for the feedback. It’s my bed time so I’ll check those teams out when I get up

[empty olive]

Can't some choiced mons work in ho

Like some scarfers for speed control

Or really good cleanup mons

Like scarf lati/rachi/tini/kart or banded boom

[nocturne willow]

Not really

Also this is not the channel for these questions

[cerulean karma]

none of them are good for the reasons i mentioned above

again you need a hella specific reason to run them and it cant just be "oh I wanted speed control / a wallbreaker" thats the hella generic excuse

[exotic turtle]

hi, could i get an rmt for this team https://pokepast.es/20da53561a9d7f7c

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[solar valley]

https://pokepast.es/55d4f60a94cef484

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[solar valley]

i feel like hera doesnt contribute cuz i tried this team and hera does nothing and the other 5 does everything, should I replace hera with other megas like medicham, lopunny, scizor or mawile?

[empty olive]

hera isn't viable or is outclassed as an attacker

also replace gliscor with gking or ferro (more likely option) bc both your walls have quite literally the same weaknesses

an example of a replacement to hera would be scarf/specs lele

if scarf, replace scarf urshifu with the sd set and if specs, replace weavile band with sd

honestly speaking, use scarf lele > heracross and use sd waterpon over shifu as it's more threatening

[obtuse chasm]

https://pokepast.es/da2621d2219dfc9e

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[obtuse chasm]

i'm kinda liking this team

it does lean alot on bulk

[empty olive]

You have to play really well against the urshifu/superpower pon matchup

And I don't really know what ting lu is doing here

I think something like a z goug would work better over lu, scarfkrai > current set and regular defensive lando

Also what's with the Lando evs

And finally use knock/twave over gyro on ferro to be more threatening

[obtuse chasm]

I need something to beat darkrai

[next forge]

Arceus Fairy beats Darkrai!

[obtuse chasm]

Arceus ground +2 dd solos

[next forge]

Unfortunately it struggles against Landorus-T

You need Primal Kyogre to beat it!

[obtuse chasm]

+2 ultra necrozma has no switch ins

Wait scratch that, +2 double dance pdon solos

[next forge]

Unfortunately it is easily revenge killed by Weavile and Hisuian Samurott

Use Tapu Lele for Psychic Terrain!

[obtuse chasm]

But seriously without tinglu i find the darkrai mu so much harder

[obtuse chasm]

I kinda have to accept that superpower pon exists and i will likely lose to it

[empty olive]

Skarfkrai, current medi fake + bp, dd goug, and emergency Tera fairy gking all can chip in for the darkrai matchup

[empty olive]

The only real way to beat oger is to outspeed and hit it hard (scarfkrai and dd goug)

[empty olive]

btw you should probably just use the sample that looks alot like it

https://pokepast.es/6066ce3aac181357

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[stray crown]

can someone rate my team

https://pokepast.es/3e3be611100f7ca1

[cerulean karma]

this team isn't viable, team lacks any sort of synergy and just looks like you chose mons that looked cool, the movesets barely make sense, EVs are you blatantly just having fun with the scroller, etc.

[stray crown]

i did indeed just pick the coolest looking pokemon

[cerulean karma]

I would just use Samples for right now

[stray crown]

alr

[cerulean karma]

if you are seriously trying to learn the tier

[next forge]

MIXED KOKO 🔥

CHILLING WATER MEGA ABOMASNOW 🥶

CLEAR SMOG CERULEDGE 😼

[stray crown]

https://pokepast.es/6302db09636217d3

slightly fixed

[empty olive]

⏫

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-sample-teams.3714863/

[next forge]

this aint it chief

im sorry

[stray crown]

im new bro i just need help building ts

[empty olive]

https://pokepast.es/8ac22f2bb3069949

The issue I'm having is against sub dd kyurem

I almost always have to save tera on lando to beat it and it sets up on too much (not even mentioning the huge chunk it takes from my team)

the changes I'm looking at are gyro on ferro over like whip or knock

but whip is nessesary to threaten big damage on wellspring and waters while knock is really useful on helmets so lop spams cc easier (esp in stall matchups)
my idea is a midground in body press over power whip, but I don't know if that's too weak.
another idea I have is gyro over knock on ferro and knock over turn on lando but idk if lando could knock the same targets

[split verge]

does anyone have a team that follows these restriction

Restrictions:

Species Clause
Baton Pass Clause
Evasion Clause
Sleep Clause
Moody Clause
No Z-Moves
Only one pseudo-legendary per team
There must be no more than two pokemon with a same/common typing (Ex: Having three flying types are not allowed)
No trapping abilities/moves are allowed (Arena Trap etc.)

Banned Pokemon:

Gen 8 OU Banlist
Legendaries
Mythicals
Ditto
Ash Greninja
Gen 9 Pokemon
Ultra Beasts

[empty olive]

god damn

oh wait

I thought this was a failed pokepaste

uhhh

there's a rule about this somewhere

lemme check

!nolegends

[celest merlin]

See rule 6 of #1030567099703242903 message

[empty olive]

⏫

[split verge]

well damn bro how is asking for a team with no legendaries against rules

[empty olive]

read it, explanation is somewhere in there

[split verge]

yeah i know it is

but thats just

stupid

gen 8 ou

[empty olive]

I'm not even a rater 😭

all I can say is that this isn't the chat to debate about rules

[empty olive]

Gonna bump this up bc chat clutter

[cerulean karma]

because you are essentially just telling everyone upfront that you have no interest in actually playing the metagame properly due to self imposed restrictions

might as well ask the raters to waste their time

[nocturne willow]

If it’s a custom metagame, we cannot provide any helpful advice because we don’t know the meta well enough, or at all

If these are simply restrictions on the mons you can use in a standard smogon tier, then you are holding yourself back arbitrarily, and we do not provide advice for someone who is not interested in hearing it

[split verge]

well i was hoping someone had a meta team that was still in the restrictions

[nocturne willow]

no because these restrictions are ridiculous

no one can build around those restrictions

[merry delta]

Trust me those kinds of restrictions will only hinder your builds and make them worse in practice

[ancient drum]

can you rate my team pls https://pokepast.es/940ce67bfe0d48c5

Mawhile is actually a beast

it gets huge power when u mega

but i struggle against stuff like tyranitar or garchomp because i dont have many ground type resistances

so im thinking that i should change great tusk to tera plying

flying

also the nickname on urshifu actually tricks people 💀

its really funny

[empty olive]

Bad sets + no synergy

Double mega is unviable

I'd heavily recommend you just trash this and start over

[ancient drum]

😭

im having decent success tho

and both megas have come in handy before

[empty olive]

Probably only on low ladder

[ancient drum]

fair

but out of like 20 games ive lost 1

[empty olive]

Having 2 megas forces you to waste an item slot and usually use a bad pokemon

[ancient drum]

diancie is fine even when non meba

but ye mawhile kinda stinks without huge power

[empty olive]

Also every pokemon you have is an unset

[ancient drum]

i just dont know if i need 3 life orb users

[ancient drum]

?

you mean non standard set

[empty olive]

Yes

And that's typically bad

[ancient drum]

idk

i used smogon sets and just changed as i needed

except for victini and diancie

[empty olive]

Again, I recommend you start over, the original idea was unviable anyway

[ancient drum]

is there any adjustments you would suggest

i dont mind \switching out 1 or 2 pokemon

[empty olive]

Read my last message

[ancient drum]

other than doing over

i enjoy playing the team

[empty olive]

Fun doesn't necessarily mean good and if you're looking for fun > competitive this isn't the chat for it

[ancient drum]

oh ok

still is there any mons that are weak links/dont actually help much

[empty olive]

If you're talking competitive wise over fun then all of them are

[empty olive]

⏫

[ancient drum]

ok

[ancient drum]

arent all of these mons ou and uu?

[empty olive]

If you don't read my messages I can't help you

[ancient drum]

ok

[empty olive]

This

[ancient drum]

ok

can u help me make a new team centered around mega diancie then?

im still somewhat new to competetive pokemon

ive been doing it for like 2 months

with a little bit of past experience

[empty olive]

This isn't really the channel for that, we rate and fix full teams, not build them from scratch

But you'll probably want to start from a sample to find the roles of pokemon before you build yourself

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-sample-teams.3714863/

[ancient drum]

https://pokepast.es/6ab8a0d55f4d3b53 ok what about this team

i picked more meta pokemon and sets

also can you explain why tera dragon is good for corviknight and why tera fire is the best for dragonite

[obtuse chasm]

I used that sample alot and learned alot from it so I'm now building balance

[obtuse chasm]

uknow ekiller dnite is better

right?

[obtuse chasm]

https://pokepast.es/8b768e10534de104

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[obtuse chasm]

I revamped it based on the improvements recommended

Actually I should name it

https://pokepast.es/8682ec9a63edcad0

[empty olive]

Really good try and MUCH better than your original team, but you can still fine tune it

[empty olive]

Like I'd use heatran over corv to deal with ice moves and pressure a little better

And it'd free up rocks on Lando giving up fog instead bc even with bounce, with non-hdb goug and dnite you'd need fog still

[empty olive]

You're better off asking #comp-general but a quick explanation is that dnite wants tfire to resist fairy + ice and have a stab fpunch while corv wants tdrag to gain key resistances against the starter types

The only thing I'd worry about is speed control, as you don't have priority or immediate speed

Which pretty much forces you to reactive Tera on things like booster val

[empty olive]

You could honestly go something like fog > rocks Lando rocks > spikes on Diance and SD scizor over tran

[cerulean karma]

seems very solid

I would run Ice Punch over Bullet Punch on Mmedi tho

[ember path]

I don’t keep up-to-date with new Pokémon moves or builds to much but,

How is archaldon banned from over used

And why

[obtuse chasm]

it is very hard to take down with stamina and av

and it can go outta control with electro shot in rain

[cerulean karma]

asking in the wrong place

#comp-general

[deft tundra]

opinions?
https://pokepast.es/0bbe1e108b64065d

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[nocturne willow]

rain without skewda is unviable imo

[deft tundra]

why?

[cerulean karma]

meh take

[nocturne willow]

one of rain's best breakers as well as rain's best speed control

[empty olive]

doesn't jolly m-pert outspeed most scarfers in rain anyway?

[nocturne willow]

sure, but skewda guarentees even against boosted mons ie terad volc or valiant can be outsped

and also its just an insane breaker with liquidation spam under rain

[empty olive]

pert outspeeds any scarfer below 110 base and has insane bulk compared to skewda

[nocturne willow]

ok but you dont pick skewda for bulk

You pick Skewda beacuse you want power and speed control

[deft tundra]

and choice locking lol

[empty olive]

the bulk makes you live most things faster (at least once) than pert no?

[nocturne willow]

if a volc gets up to +2 you are not surviving a hit

[empty olive]

in what situation does volc get +2 during rain

[nocturne willow]

-bring in volc against a arch that has dracoed
-quiver once on the switch
-tera out of weakness, quiver again
-glhf

[empty olive]

if it was skewda in the same situation you aren't killing either tho?

[nocturne willow]

Skewda can outspeed and put it in range of revenge kill

But Swampert just gets folded/turned into Giga Drain fodder

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Grass Volcarona: 294-346 (94.5 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
this is easily cleaned by bolt
+2 252 SpA Tera Grass Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Swampert-Mega: 924-1092 (270.9 - 320.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
this is not

[empty olive]

depends on a like a 10/90

[nocturne willow]

if you lose 16 50/50s in a row

[empty olive]

no way they tera first until skewda switches in (in which case its a flip/liquidation/cc/burn/drain mindgame you are WAY more likely to lose)

[nocturne willow]

respectfully, quit the game

[deft tundra]

ok, I won't play pokemon

[nocturne willow]

skewda's merits aside, why is lele here?

[deft tundra]

anti priority

[nocturne willow]

...but you run your own priority

like one of raging bolt's main traits is its priority lol

and you don't really care for bullet punch from scizor, and espeed from dnite/grassy glide from rillaboom can be covered by ferrothorn (or ig kartana in this case)

[deft tundra]

guess I'll replace lele with skewda then and hope I don't run into something with water absorb

[nocturne willow]

actuallyw ait why is kartana here

[deft tundra]

filler

[nocturne willow]

why not ferro lol

you dont really need the speed or power or coverage of kart while ferro is a handy check to any priority you're worried about + beats any waterpon that isnt superpower

[deft tundra]

isn't that like the smogon set?

[nocturne willow]

encore is slashed on there

and if its superpower then you can beat with bolt

[deft tundra]

but showdown usage gives a different set so

[nocturne willow]

?

ogerpon runs either superpower or encore as its 4th moveslot, with some weird tech like trailblaze/play rough/sub/wtv people think of occasionally coming out

[deft tundra]

showdown usage says play rough

so I guess ferro is safe

[nocturne willow]

ok then ferro walls congrats

[deft tundra]

Now I'll make a gen 8 version that probably is worse

[ancient drum]

yeah but this seems to be the other most used set and i dont really like tera normal on dragonite

also our usernames are like super similar (My user is K4vin60)

[ancient drum]

Yo is flame body better in this case?

[ancient drum]

also because adding heatran would give me something like earth power, is it better to swap out landos earth power for a coverage move like grass knot or smthn?

[next forge]

No flash fire heatran is always better

Why would u want ur fire type to not resist or be immune to fire

[empty olive]

This is literally false

Flame Body gives pressure against Rilaboom spamming glide and weavile taxels. It also gives a last resort to shifu surging strikes

It all depends on team structure

[empty olive]

No that's not how that works, and besides, adding priority like scizor would be more useful (Val check)

[merry delta]

Flame body is much worse on heatran and flash fire is always the better option. Heatran is one of the best fire resists out there and prevents stuff like Volcarona, gouging fire, and yard from overwhelming it quickly

[cerulean karma]

ngl this is completely unnecessary since a good team should be able to have strong outs to these threats without needing to resort to Flame Body Tran. A variant that generally makes Heatran less valuble since you suddenly can't check Moltres, Volcarona, or Gouging

[merry delta]

(And yard, one of the reasons you want a fire resist on almost everything)

And yeah there is no reason to punish most of those moves especially because you already double resist them and can throw out one of the million progress making options tran has so flame body is kinda just a cruddy way to punish those guys since you lose the fire resist

[next forge]

yeah we have a solution for that

its called

zapdos

[vernal totem]

hey basically im in a monotype tournament that a youtuber is holding but its held in natdex. i have the ghost type and am versing the ground type. could someone please rate my team?

https://pokepast.es/be023471b413c18a

there it is

[next forge]

#1060037469472555028

[vernal totem]

it is ou

the format is NatDex OU

[nocturne willow]

!nolegends

[celest merlin]

See rule 6 of #1030567099703242903 message

[vernal totem]

wait so am i not allowed to ask for help with my team?

dang

@nocturne willow do u know if there is a thread where i can ask for help?

[nocturne willow]

if you want to build a natdex monotype team, go to natdex non-ou

if you want to build a natdex ou team but its monotype, we do not help with arbitrary restrictions like those, and you will not get help in this server

[vernal totem]

oh

i was trynna get a second opinion on it for the the tourney sry

sry i didnt mean to break a rule

[ember path]

I think it’s pretty good, rate it within 1 - 10

suggest changes if you can

[empty olive]

!pokepaste

[celest merlin]

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180492013660/pokepaste2.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=2d3caf4b912c30f438c896f0b696d9c80bd50d9e5a4a8ed067bca9e5dbf6ff3c&

[ember path]

https://pokepast.es/272cc06d72acb7b8

[celest merlin]

New [Gen 9] National Dex RMT @limber crypt, @cobalt skiff, @dusk flare, @hardy flint, @merry delta, @cerulean karma. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean karma]

the concept is interesting but these specific choices are confusing me

[ember path]

I wanted to use somthing not many people use, the mega slowbro

[cerulean karma]

• why are you mega slowbro with magic coat instead of idk base form with the standard pivot set
• why are you Hoodra instead of a real steel type like Corv or Ferro
• in what situations does offensive sitrus lando help over defensive rocky helmet or SD + Zmove + Rocks
• Surely Power Whip or Horn Leech is miles better than Seed Bomb on Ogerpon, why go for the worst of both worlds here? Why also go for Uturn instead of just coverage for Dnite/Ferrothorn?
• just gonna say outright that Scarf Heattom has to be a hella inconsistent set with the rocks weakness and poor speed (idt this revenge kills a signle speed boosted sweeper lol)
• Offensive Fog Zapdos with no Roost???

[cerulean karma]

why? loading niche to unviable picks solely for the novelty is not good building practice

ideally you want all of your team to take on all of / most of the metagame threats while also being able to support each other

[ember path]

Ok thanks

[thin nymph]

Can somebody help me build a team🗣️