VGC Rates

[spiral cosmos]

Maybe like, bloodmoon or something

Works in tr and tailwind

[rigid ore]

Maybe

[spiral cosmos]

Or amoongus

[rigid ore]

I’m a lot more likely to run Ursa B than Amoongus I think

Cuz the slower TR threats run Amoongus into the dirt, and Ursaluna has burn so sleep immune

Idk

I could also just be stupid and overcomplicating

I’ll try some with Ursa later

Ty

[sleek laurel]

Ftr it is fine

To send teams for unplayable regulations

So long as the team is competitive

Because friendly tours and even friendly matches exist

What’s not fine is sending teams that aren’t meant to be used competitively, as in “not built to be optimized/win and rather just ‘for fun’”

But I do get the misunderstanding lol

Team looks mostly fine, Arch isn’t the best but it’s viable so you can make it work if you want

Sash Calyrex is preferred here tho because the item slot is free, Mind Plate isn’t needed at all, and you get to be better against opposing Calyrex-S which, right now, pose a massive threat

Oh, and also consider Scarf Urshifu for the same reason + less reliance on Tailwind, but Mystic Water is fine

But I think the way I’d do this is Tera Water Scarf Urshifu + Wide Guard Pelipper > Torn

I have a Limitless rn tho so responses will be slow, but that’s the way I’d do that

[sleek laurel]

Although actually Caly really wants sash so maybe not

Yea nvm, just do Sash Caly and you can try either Urshifu way

I still prefer Scarf but you can try both lol

[spiral cosmos]

@sleek laurel could you please take a look

[sleek laurel]

Lemme do this round and I will

Sorry it started LMAO

[spiral cosmos]

Shit lemme watch

[sleek laurel]

Cart tour 🥀

[spiral cosmos]

Aw

[sleek laurel]

@spiral cosmos got paired vs Leland Smith round 1 and crashed Game 1 > got fucking smoked game 2

Am here now

[spiral cosmos]

RIP

[sleek laurel]

LMAO

I think your Tailwind mode is too weak

You probably want a Flutter Mane > Iron Hands

[spiral cosmos]

Wouldnt i basically be going full tailwind here then?

[sleek laurel]

You have Torkoal, Farig and Bloodmoon

[spiral cosmos]

Also, icy wind flutter or a different set?

[sleek laurel]

Offensive

Specs with Speed Booster

[spiral cosmos]

Got it

[sleek laurel]

Oh, and Helping Hand > Earth Power on Torkoal

Earth Power without Specs does 0 damage anyway

You’re better off boosting Ursaluna’s Earth Power or Flutter’s Dazzling Gleam or Moonblast if you can’t click a Fire-type move/are outside of Trick Room lol

[spiral cosmos]

Yeah i noticed that after it only did 60% to fucking chi yu

[fiery plinth]

do you have suggestion for a replacement for arch, I love the mon but wouldn't mind different options

[sleek laurel]

Yea lmao

[sleek laurel]

Wisp Incineroar probably, you don’t need to go hard Rain

And Wisp Incin just helps against Caly-S and Caly-I

The Caly’s are rough for this team to face as is

[spiral cosmos]

Also i may as well get a second opinion, is it worth going for sleep powder on lilligant or should i stick with protect

[sleek laurel]

Sleep Powder is usually worth it because it’s the only reason to run Hilli in Reg F

And in general, otherwise you’re better off with other offensive Sun abusers

[spiral cosmos]

Aw poo

[spiral cosmos]

Ok what other offensive sun abusers are there

[fiery plinth]

also I was testing with this calyrex set expanding force+ astral barrage deletes anything that isn't dark or has absurd bulk but the price is making it frail

[sleek laurel]

Chi-Yu notably

[spiral cosmos]

Dont you also get ur teeth kicked in by wide guard

[sleek laurel]

Which pairs well with Flutter Mane and Bloodmoon on Tailwind matches (you’re not using Hilli on TR ones anyway) and with Sun just does 3 billion damage

Your Incin matchup kinda looks somewhat problematic, but you can legit just overwhelm it, and Hilli also loses if it gets Intimidated or if Incineroar Tera’s

[spiral cosmos]

My whole team would be special attackers though

[fiery plinth]

I mean it's not completely helpless, tera blast even when not tera does absurd damage if it already has stacked up boosts and also the rest of the team can help

[sleek laurel]

I noticed that yea, but almost all Sun abusers are Special attackers

[spiral cosmos]

Guess i'll try sleep powdee then

[sleek laurel]

And Specs Flutter + Sun-boosted Chi-Yu + Bloodmoon + Eruption Torkoal just don’t care much LMAO

But this isn’t to say that Hilli isn’t fine

It’s just you kinda really get value off of Sleep Powder

Just remember not to click it mindlessly

[spiral cosmos]

My thing is like

[sleek laurel]

Rather, click it when you MUST put something to sleep

[spiral cosmos]

I miss draco's constantly

[sleek laurel]

A 75% chance to get emergency bailed-out

Oh yea I mean

[spiral cosmos]

Now imagine that on fucking 75% accuracy

[sleek laurel]

This is a mistake many VGC players make

They click innacurate moves when they don’t have to

Sleep Powder is a consolidating or a bail-out move

[spiral cosmos]

Also losing protect kinda sucks here

[sleek laurel]

You use it as an emergency button or if there’s no cost to it

Hilli rarely runs Protect

You just do STABs After You + Sleep Powder

After You also pairs very well with Eruption

[spiral cosmos]

Yeah i know that

[sleek laurel]

So ye

[spiral cosmos]

That was the most popular set i saw

I just feel more comfortable with protect

[lament scroll]

focus blast more like focus miss

that joke is really old

[lament scroll]

one of my usual crappy teams but

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2026regf-2508072595-1b2bbbf0lvutn8gpfn4ep5oc774svbtpw

[unborn silo]

https://pokepast.es/6c2011dee5f16fb9 thought?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[random wagon]

is cb shifu really necessary?

i feel like it benefits far more from sash (lets it actually win 1v1 against flutter minus tera)

this should also make you less reliant on speed control although cb can probs stay

sunnyday on flutter should be shadow ball though bc ur specs flutter mu is meh

if you want sunny day can be on torn

which speaking of i recommend sash / just run a faster spread on it tbh

considering you have quite the offensive team

additionally im not the biggest fan of farig but if it works it works

bolt can probs be something faster though, maybe lando?

or fast lorb/booster bolt

but not a super necessary change, overall solid team

[lament scroll]

probaby way less than ideal but any improvements?: https://pokepast.es/fabde10a8f573079

[viscid knoll]

is it weird that I feel like I'm doing worse with the teams I'm getting from the samples than with my old team

I've dropped like 100 points lower than where I was before

[cinder glacier]

Does anyone have a meta team for Toronto?

[wispy spruce]

https://pokepast.es/2234600b8ed9f20b thoughts?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lament scroll]

you made your own team so you know how it works

you didn't make the sample, so you dont think the same way as the creator

[viscid knoll]

fair enough, them saying that my team was so bad that it was actively hindering my play just made me expect that the other teams would immediately feel better, but they probably were meaning that for more long-term play

[ripe turret]

yeah initially it will be difficult as you figure out how to play your team, but once you figure it out you will perform much better

it also comes down in part to how comfortable you are with the way the team plays

etc. control, bulky offense, hyper offense, etc.

[random wagon]

Playing the teams more and more will let you learn them

you probs did better with the other team bcuz u were used to it (even if the team wasnt good)

playing the samples more and more will likely make your play more consistent

And because the team is better you may see better results

But the team may not fit your playstyle so i recommend trying a few out to see what fits

[fiery plinth]

https://pokepast.es/cfbebee61284867d

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[random wagon]

this is just a reg h team

Rain is nothing without urshifu tbh

And gholdengo probs isnt best here

Esp since you want some way to hit raging bolt

i would replace bascu with ursh-r and replace ghold with pao/lando

bulky sash peli also makes no sense just make it 252/252

[fiery plinth]

was more or else experimenting with other mons then the same formula

[unborn silo]

https://pokepast.es/99d8d5240dd94a2f

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[unborn silo]

Ultimate sun team

[sleek laurel]

Try a faster Ogerpon, maybe the standard 204 / 76+ / 36 / 0- / 4 / 188 spread

But if slow is working fine then that’s fine, it’s a matter of preference

Overall solid Sun team

No big flaws that I can see

[unborn silo]

But my critical weakness is guts ursaluna and raging bolt

[sleek laurel]

You should be able to explode Guts Ursaluna with Tera Fire Eruption

Or just your “fast” mode too

[jovial creek]

you probably shouldn't struggle into either

[sleek laurel]

But assuming it’s already inside of TR yea

[jovial creek]

pon explodes both

[sleek laurel]

Pon doesn’t explode bolt wyoab

[jovial creek]

ok so

its a sun team

theres a torkoal

it has helping hand

pon explodes both

[sleek laurel]

Ok then say “Pon + HH” or “Pon + Flutter” 😭

[jovial creek]

its implied

[jovial creek]

you could go stomping tantrum hearthflame

[sleek laurel]

Stantrum can help into Bolt if you can’t Tera the Ogerpon yea

Sun-boosted Tera Fire Ivy Cudgel will outdamage but otherwise yes

Or wait it doesn’t outdamage, it does the same damage

Forgot about Hearthflame Mask

[lament scroll]

tips?: https://pokepast.es/a3f2ca2528c91d84

[south token]

yo guys can anyone give me some tips for this sand team and what could i change? https://pokepast.es/feca0148c9144e44

[granite basin]

well first u have 2 avs which is something to fix second no tera ice / ice punch on ttar imo instead go tera flying tera blast and then earthquake over rock slide on excadrill, then generally i think leaning more offensively could be a good idea but otherwise looks fine

[granite basin]

generally this team just isn't good and doesn't have many good mons
something like this takes a simlar core but is a lot more proven/viable: https://pokepast.es/2af6c672d02a9630

[south token]

ty man!

instead of raging bolt av i can use booster energy?

[granite basin]

booster energy should fit fine, another thing to consider is potentially water urshifu

[south token]

i can deal with it if i tera ttar or with raging bolt

also raging bolt helps me out with other rain teams

[granite basin]

no i mean waterfu in that slot

but raging bolt is fine yeah

also not sure how well farigiraf fits here

sure armour tail is nice but doesn't help w/ most of ur problem mus mostly how vulnerable this team is to intimidate cycling

[south token]

so what can i place instead of farigiraf? water urshifu or what do u consider best?

[granite basin]

water urshifu looks like a good place to start yeah

you can play around with the slot tho see what sticks

[south token]

what water urshifu build u recommend me?

[granite basin]

probably choice scarf w/ tera ghost

[south token]

sure

thanks pal

[granite basin]

nws lmk if u still have issues / stuff u wanna workshop

[south token]

ok thanks man

[loud hamlet]

flutter shitter is likely temporary i just need an tailwind offensive pick

[unborn silo]

https://pokepast.es/fc979fc001787e4e

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wispy spruce]

Thoughts? https://pokepast.es/af6f1259c86371db

[spiral cosmos]

If ur gonna use gallade you may as well be HTR here

[frigid dome]

https://pokepast.es/fd367b96a39da484 reg F

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[clever imp]

https://pokepast.es/5a979eafd9648cc1 Im back again made a new team

[lilac glen]

why is whims and flutter max max

[lament scroll]

you can max hp ev flutter mane and still have it be strong and fast enough

[frigid dome]

no

flutter is meant to be a glass cannon

[granite basin]

generally you dont wanna invest too much in hp instead invest bulk points in defense but yes you can heavily bulk invest and still function well offensively

[digital sierra]

https://pokepast.es/126694792df9b903
is this darkrai team any good?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[autumn cairn]

https://pokepast.es/723ba818790e9fa0

Team I made, I'm not good enough to know if it can be optimized

[lavish nexus]

https://pokepast.es/e654287212d571ec
wondering about a different item for torkoal and a potential change for walking wake into another mon

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jovial creek]

I think if theres any mons you should change it would be the whimsicott and the annihilape

currently your team is very offensive but those 2 don't really fit the pace

torkoal might be struggling to get value because you don't have trick room, adding farigiraf over whimsicott and raging bolt over annihilape could help

[lavish nexus]

torkoal is there for support and anti tr

helping hand is higher priority than fake out, meaning you can put it next to flutter against balance teams and just nuke

[jovial creek]

could go heat rock torkoal

[lavish nexus]

admittedly it doesn't work as well without a balance piece but ape is here to punish being too defensive, with bulk up to setup and whims beat up to support, and whims here actually does allot, with tw and encore for general support and sunny day to beat opposing weather and turn flutter into a nuke

[jovial creek]

what can really be too defensive into sun though

whims is probably fine

[lament scroll]

is mystical fire or hyper voice better on flutter mane?

[jovial creek]

neither

what set are you running?

[lament scroll]

decided to just go with icy wind

what are the current main weaknesses of rain urshifu teams?

[digital sierra]

rillaboom and especially raging bolt are a major thorn in the side of urshifu

[jovial creek]

Av bolt, lando I+redirect

[azure yew]

https://pokepast.es/2f2705159ccb3223

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[azure yew]

prolly dont let me cook?

[jovial creek]

yeah

thats not it

[azure yew]

but its so sick

scream tail is for sure a throw but

i wanted to find a way to utilize the uniqueness of hydrapple

hurricane on the bird needs to change and teras need to be thought about

[azure yew]

but like if I want to do this how would you

i feel like just throwing drapple on an average TR team is just strictly worse

[jovial creek]

what are you trying to do?

[azure yew]

make hydrapple good

[jovial creek]

I'd probably run like

3 attacks regenerator

[azure yew]

like take advantage if its unique attributes

[jovial creek]

maybe life orb?

fickle beam giga drain earth power protect

it probably switches into urshifu quite well

aside from uturn

[azure yew]

like

are you running it on balance?

[jovial creek]

probably semi room

with like

farigiraf

[azure yew]

mmm

[lament scroll]

if you're leaning that much into sleep moves might as well use yawn

but don't consider what i say too much

im not very experienced

[azure yew]

well the idea is that hydrapple's ability will increase the chance of hypnosis hitting

using same turn lower acc sleep moves is the idea

[lament scroll]

hope you don't get the aaron zheng special

i mean if you set up gravity nothing is immune to ground and hypnosis and sing become 100% accurate

exactly 100% which is neat

[azure yew]

yeah true

but hydrapple also has really good typing and coverage into the meta

fickle beam is a funny button

and I love the idea of using valiant in doubles too

im for sure gonna do some testing with it at least

i was looking into sleep powder too

bellossom especially

idk i like trying to make stuff work

but I have a tailwind squad I run too

[azure yew]

thoughts on Sleep powder Liligant-H over the Valiant? Feels like it plays well with the sun mode

[digital sierra]

lilligant is most likely the best choice
chlorophyll + after you pairs beautifully with torkoal

[jovial creek]

you aren't really gonna be using hydrapple then

you can do that but then it would be best to just go a normal sun team

and hydrapple wouldn't really work

[azure yew]

idk I feel like there's some application?

spots where you might want to swap out torkoal turn 1 and put something to bed at the same time

[jovial creek]

thats just normal liligant+torkoal though

[azure yew]

what are sun's worst matchups?

[jovial creek]

av bolt?

I don't play sun so I dont' really know

[azure yew]

with the added bonus of a more accurate sleep powder

worth noting

[jovial creek]

ig

[lament scroll]

ground types prob

walking wake double resists fire and gets boosted by sun in two different ways

[tight adder]

https://pokepast.es/32148dd15a69b3de a champions team i’ve been thinking about for a bit

[unkempt river]

https://pokepast.es/72079944c312b6ce very new to vgc but trying to make a sun team for reg f doubles and this is the rough draft just wanted opinions/suggestions:)

[frigid dome]

https://pokepast.es/d3a677c037053a96

how am i doing

[frigid dome]

personally id never use status on a scarf. because your opponent can 100% punish it and it mostly just ends up hurting you. I also thing items could be changed

[unkempt river]

you think life orb chi yu would be better?

[frigid dome]

i think you could run tera ghost tera blast for coverage

[unkempt river]

for chi yu?

[frigid dome]

ye

love using chi yu

[unkempt river]

i’ve never used them before

honestly it’s my first time using some of these newer pokémon 😭

[frigid dome]

it can also sneak KO a flutter with tera blast ghost

[frigid dome]

ive used about all those 6

in some shape

[unkempt river]

i’ve loved seeing so many vids about vgc recently so i wanted to get into it

[unkempt river]

you think wilo wisp would be the best move to replace?

for tera blast

[frigid dome]

ye. ive never seen a choice mon use a status move unless we in singles ngl

[unkempt river]

ye that’s fair tbh

thank you:)

[frigid dome]

yk

i found smth

so in my experience ive learned off of rentals

heres smth that did well in reg F if u wanna try it https://pokepast.es/98d19c40d8aafbad

same premise and uses similar mons

it was day 2 at euic

[unkempt river]

yk i was literally just thinking of adding raging bolt in some way

[frigid dome]

ye. i love raging bolt.

[unkempt river]

i’ll try this team and learn a bit with it to thanks again fam

[frigid dome]

the team above is the only 1 of 2 with torkoal i could find

that one has the closest to your team suprisingly

[frigid dome]

np also the evs are in the pokepaste so you can run it on sd without doing it yourself

[unkempt river]

oh awesome sauce

[frigid dome]

you can feel free to adjust wtvr. i see some things id personally adjust but it has to be there for some reason lol

[unkempt river]

might change incin to give him parting shot instead of u turn thays the only thing i see after just looking at it

[frigid dome]

thats a issue

u cant

because assault vest

[unkempt river]

ye but give him rocky helmet

[frigid dome]

honestly i dont get rocky helmet besides shifu

[unkempt river]

that’s mainly why tbh

i’ve already seen a few on my first day of showdown

or safety goggles

[frigid dome]

safety and av are the most popular

[frigid dome]

but you got sun and venusaur for that

[unkempt river]

i’ll go with safety goggles for just in case

[unkempt river]

i got another suggestion to get rid of venu for hisui liligant

little bit faster and hits hard with close combat and still has sleep powder

and it has the after you move so torkal can move first without trickroom so that’s cool

[frigid dome]

thing is chlorophyl sleep powder with bulk feels way better

hisui lilli is just a glass cannon

[unkempt river]

you make a good point there

[frigid dome]

with a abusable type combo to things like flutter

[unkempt river]

venu can def take a hit

[frigid dome]

ye hes bulk city

[unkempt river]

i’ll keep venu i love them way more anyway

[frigid dome]

the only sun teams ive seen use lilli are tr teams with lilli

[unkempt river]

ye i’m def keeping my venu

but changing chi yu and farig

for bolt and tornadus

[frigid dome]

id be happy to run some to later.

but also run ladder alot

[unkempt river]

got it 🫡

[frigid dome]

also watch videos on the metagame but also reflect on your games

the metagame is smth important ngl

[unkempt river]

ye gonna re watch battles i do

and already started to watch videos

[frigid dome]

ye. honestly the goood people are like wolfe glick, aaron cybertronzang and james baek

[unkempt river]

love wolfes vids thays honestly what got me into it 😭

[frigid dome]

same

but also aaron explains his thought proccess and tests popular teams

as u can see

[unkempt river]

i’ll def give him a watch

[hardy mountain]

should raging bolt ever use protect, volt switch or electroweb in reg f? im thinking of putting raging bolt on my team but im not sure what moves i should use with him

[lament scroll]

electroweb has been used for speed control

specs volt switch should be powerful and give you a choice reset

protect is just a thing that's useful on any non-choice or non-vest mon

[hardy mountain]

my team doenst have any speed control like tailwind or TR, im using choice specs on flutter mane so should i just run thunderclap dragon pulse thunderbolt electroweb on assault vest raging bolt?

[lament scroll]

sure

but if opponent sets trick room you're screwed if you manage speed drops on them

[hardy mountain]

ill send the full team in here in a sec i just wanna finish up the bolt, its the team that won the big online vgc tourney i just changed iron hands for raging bolt and i might change some other stuff cuz i like the roaring moon core teams

[lament scroll]

do you have a non-prankster taunt mon?

[hardy mountain]

no, ill send the full team in here just give me like 20s

https://pokepast.es/01f17c147927c53e

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[hardy mountain]

am kind of a beginner, tryna get ready for euic, i need all the help i can get tbh

[hardy mountain]

i dont have a taunt mon at all and i dont have any speed control, do u have any tips how i can counter TR and tailwind?

[lament scroll]

if you can pull off a taunt you shut down TR and i dont think many TR users run mental herb

if you tr same turn as another tr then field resets to normal

tr also ruins tailwind

just make sure your tr user can tank hits

[hardy mountain]

what would happen if someone uses mental herb TR and gets trick room down

[hardy mountain]

and do any of the pokemon i have on the team even learn TR and if they do, which one should i use

[hardy mountain]

same with taunt

[sleek laurel]

I have a similar version to this on my builder, this team is good but it is notoriously hard to play

[lament scroll]

knock off and then taunt

[sleek laurel]

I can’t say I endorse the removal of the Rillaboom though, Double Fake Out is like

Way more important than usual here

I’d do Rilla > either Amoong or Bolt and if > Amoong, change the Bolt set to Life Orb + Protect > Electroweb

Speed control itself isn’t the greatest issue due to Roaring Moon’s Dragon Dance

[hardy mountain]

yea but what if they setup a TR

i checked and the only mon that learns TR on the team should be ogerpon

[hardy mountain]

nvm he doesnt get it

[lament scroll]

incin, flutter

farig gets tr

[hardy mountain]

yeah but is farigiraf good on the team and who would i change it to if i used him

[lament scroll]

absolutely

it blocks fakeout

and all other priority

most players run it with throat spray

so it gets +1 spa from hyper voice

[hardy mountain]

what would happen if they setup TR

[hardy mountain]

yeah thats the usual item

[lament scroll]

click grassy glide

as long as they dont have indeedee or farig

but those are the two top tr setters i think

[hardy mountain]

yeah i dont think there r other good TR setters im pretty sure in reg f

[lament scroll]

well cresselia is hella bulky and can heal

but pure psychic type might not be the best idea in a world with incin and flutter

[hardy mountain]

im not sure if i should get rid of bolt or amoongus but i dont think its a good idea to have dupe typings like amoongus and rilla

[lament scroll]

wait nvm cresselia tanks knock off and shadow ball

[hardy mountain]

rillaboom Glide wood hammer fake out u-turn/high horsepower do i run uturn or horsepower for reg f

[lament scroll]

as a support mon i think rillaboom should run u-turn

allows it to get a new mon in

and if it switches back in it can go for another fakeout

[sleek laurel]

You’d prolly get rid of Amoong (at least that’s what my builder’s like) cause you have Ogerpon, but Amoong kinda helps punish TR

That said, you are very bulky

Incin + Pon + Rilla is very bulky

Im really busy rn sorry for the sporadic responses

[hardy mountain]

yeah im changing the team and i removed amoongus for rilla, i just want a clear like counter to TR so i dont automatically lose to it

[hardy mountain]

allgood, im very thankful for all the help i alr got 😄

https://pokepast.es/b52494ae934c6f0e https://pokepast.es/d0355d7bb84317bc i want to play 1 of these teams, you got any more tips Stallsun on what to change and which one is the better to play?

also idk if its good to have 2 dragon types

[lament scroll]

i mean you can just not have them out at the same time

if you meet a flutter then bc it's super frail you can just tera flying acrobatics to ohko it

[ocean lantern]

im playin around with my amoonguss' ivs. should it
a) live +1 draco from max spa raging bolt, 2 cc from max attack band urshifu, and 1 wicked blow from max attack band urshifu
or
b) only live +1 draco from 100+ spa raging bolt, live 2 ice spinners from 156+ urshifu, and 1 icicle crash from 252 atk chien pao (more than half run 252+ instead)

[sleek laurel]

Tough one, both are fine

Max SpA Draco Meteor Bolt is very rare but exists

Granted

If it’s +1

Then it doesn’t exist

But CM bolt also won’t run Draco Meteor

[ocean lantern]

wait what

[sleek laurel]

I think the second looks better if your team is weaker to Chien-Pao

[sleek laurel]

CM bolt will

1. Always run a ton of bulk
2. Always run Dragon Pulse

[sleek laurel]

And first if it’s weaker to Urshifu-S

Which is a bigger threat than many are considering it to be

But if your team matches up fine on it then it matches up fine on it

[ocean lantern]

idk if this is better? it kinda explodes to anything physical tho

ignore the others

[sleek laurel]

How much pdef is that?

[ocean lantern]

but why wont +1 max spa draco happen i dont get it

[ocean lantern]

196+

[sleek laurel]

+1 is

Calm Mind boosted

[ocean lantern]

76 def

[sleek laurel]

and Calm Mind raging bolt will never run those

[ocean lantern]

or booster

[sleek laurel]

Ah fair

[sleek laurel]

Uh

Booster

Is a 1.3x boost

[ocean lantern]

oh

[sleek laurel]

It is only a 1.5x boost

[ocean lantern]

right

[sleek laurel]

For Speed in specific

Lol

[ocean lantern]

mb

[sleek laurel]

Dw lol

You should try to live Booster or LO Draco

Booster Max and LO Max is also kinda real even though 180+ is more real but still real

But that’s easier than +1

[ocean lantern]

52 spd does that its ez

[sleek laurel]

And you should get it with any spread

Yea

[ocean lantern]

ill run b and see

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Level: 50
Bold Nature
Tera Type: Water
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 236 HP / 180 Def / 92 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk / 27 Spe

• Pollen Puff
• Spore
• Rage Powder
• Protect

[ivory drift]

Im working on a SV ingame VGC Ladder team.
I'm trying to reach masterball with an all poison type team.
Need some advice on ideas to try. To include potential duos/leads

https://pokepast.es/538e11fbea3861f1

[ocean lantern]

a team with the very loved and underused long raikou https://pokepast.es/17d04ccae0d59552

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[ocean lantern]

raging bolt's calcs got cut

[jovial creek]

Why do you have double sunny day

[ocean lantern]

to not have to bring the same guy to all games

[jovial creek]

Idt you need it more that once so I would go moonblast over gleam on flutter and protect over sunny day

[jovial creek]

You dont need sun that often though

You could also go taunt on flutter over sunny day/protect if amoonguss is an issue

[ocean lantern]

i got 3 powder immunities and both fire types make it explode so not really

[ocean lantern]

do i get any nice ohkos with moonblast or is it just for more damage

[jovial creek]

Probably but i don't remember them off the top of my head

Probably bulky ursh?

If you want you could go sd on ogerpon for a second form of setup, especially since you already have very strong support for bolt

[ocean lantern]

for follow me?

[jovial creek]

Over follow me yeah

[ocean lantern]

ok ill see how it goes

[ocean lantern]

this and ohko against 60 hp / 124 spd urshifu (its 75% to kill with d gleam) is all i could find

if i find myself not clicking sunny day very often ill run moonblast

[lament scroll]

dazzling gleam is a spread move, so it has its power cut by 25% if it hits both targets

[ocean lantern]

yeah i realized i had the calc set to singles

moonblast it is then

[lavish nexus]

https://pokepast.es/040cb375394b5719

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[ivory drift]

https://pokepast.es/538e11fbea3861f1

Need help
Im still working on potential duos for the team

[lament scroll]

no offense, but having all your team be the same type is a terrible idea in vgc

a single expanding force team

and your mons are gone

you can only tera once, which leaves all your other pokemon vulnerable

plus for sneasler you can run white herb and unburden to boost acrobatics after using close combat once

[ivory drift]

The point of the team was mono poison
Trying to challenge myself with my favorite type on ladder

[shadow crypt]

Do we like this team

leat amount of effort ive ever put into a team and i think it shows

least

[frigid dome]

wow just wow

bravo

[frigid dome]

wheres our vgc protects.

https://pokepast.es/43f51e4c2257b40d would love to find some optimization for urshi and my goat farig

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[ocean lantern]

If you don't really know what sets to run use the ones provided by smogon, in the vgc category ofc cause ghold and meowscarada look like they're made for singles. If you don't find ev spreads for your format you can min max ig but if you don't ev with some calcs in mind you'll die to a lot of stuff

[frigid dome]

you plan to go to a regional or you just do extreme calcs for fun

[ocean lantern]

Nah I don't even own a switch it's just fun

[frigid dome]

oh damn. you seem like you would be good at it. you seem amazing at calcs lol

ive never zoned in on a team like that to calc shit and write a essay on each mon

[ocean lantern]

Not really I don't win that much on ladder but ty

[frigid dome]

i wish i could

[ocean lantern]

It's just that if I don't ev my own stuff I don't know what mons live what bc ev spreads by other ppl don't usually come with much explanation

[frigid dome]

well still its impressive you can zone in on that. If you really played enough i could see you doung well lol

[frigid dome]

yk ive never thought of that

god i wish i could ev focus. i tried and its stressfull

i tried making my own evs for ursaluna and its so hard and annoying

[ocean lantern]

I just look for the most used mons and their sets in munchstats and see if I can realistically outspeed anything important or avoid any meaningful OHKO/2HKOs, and if it's an offensive mon I look for common sets that I can OHKO/2HKO, or just ignore some defensive benchmarks and dump all remaining evs on offense

[frigid dome]

damn

i tried ev training a ursa bm to survive a wood hammer/surging strikes but it ended up being a mess

[ocean lantern]

Wdym

You died anyways?

[frigid dome]

no i survived em in the end with evs but man i turned to a mess because i tried eving for special shit but ended up ruining everything in the end

i surived one of em hitting not both was my goal

it ended up beeing way to weak basically

[ocean lantern]

At some point you gotta accept that you won't be living certain stuff and will just have to tera

[frigid dome]

right. i just scrapped it and went tera grass at that point

[ocean lantern]

Yeah with mons that want to deal damage you can't go too hard on bulk

[frigid dome]

i could honestly use help fixing some evs ngl im just tweakin on so much

like i got 2 mons i needa refix heavily

bc stallsun (no hate all love) was getting me smth fast so i got just a standard smogon set on urshifu rn so i should prob rework it somewhat

honestly idk what to look for at all

[ocean lantern]

You don't have to build the sets from scratch, you can use the smogon sets and then tweak them if you find yourself missing OHKOs or dying to stuff your tram is weak to

[frigid dome]

right. thats what ima start ngl

i might tune up my farig a bit bc it seems to barely miss some knock outs

[ocean lantern]

Tho you might think you're safe from one attack for 10 games and die to a max roll on the 11th so it's kinda risky

The calc won't mislead you

[frigid dome]

ye

i been runnin this monster rn https://pokepast.es/43f51e4c2257b40d

[ocean lantern]

Plus smogon sets are built with outdated sets in mind

[frigid dome]

then i 100% gotta retune up this urshi

[ocean lantern]

Most dark shifus run sash, but since it's taken the next most common set is 252 hp / 252+ atk and min speed for tr

If you don't like min speed you will have to get creative and run the calcs

[frigid dome]

ive seen people in reg J use iron ball 😭 wild af

[frigid dome]

the question is. would we be able to survive a non boosted mb without ruining a shifu

[ocean lantern]

You mean sash?

Oh wait

I can't read

[frigid dome]

lol

[ocean lantern]

mb is 4x you're not living that

[frigid dome]

we gotta optimize to surive a boosted shadowball (our tera poison) atleast

found out 68 hp is enough

if they max spatack and booster

[ocean lantern]

If you don't want to run too much bulk you can try to survive non boosted, since most flutters run max speed

[ocean lantern]

Oh if it's only that then yeah no problem

0 spd?

[frigid dome]

you barely survive with just 68 hp evs

idk what else ill try to survive

tbf that is max spattack modest boster flutter

[ocean lantern]

How does it handle 156+ atk surging strikes?

[frigid dome]

you mean wickled blow?

wrong shifu style

[ocean lantern]

From opposing shifu

[frigid dome]

ohh

ohhhh

from what item

just assume scarf?

[ocean lantern]

Scarf probably

Yeah

You could also assume max atk if it's not too much investment

[frigid dome]

well 156 ada blows me

[ocean lantern]

Not great

[frigid dome]

tbf thats just the 68 hp evs

ill work around it

[ocean lantern]

No way you're ever living that

[frigid dome]

nvm urshi doesnt survive

even max max

[ocean lantern]

Yeah

[frigid dome]

even a defence boosting nature cant stop it

wild

well atleast i got ogerpon for it

[ocean lantern]

76+ ogerpon w ivy cudgel?

How much damage does that do

[frigid dome]

which pon

bc ivy cudgel varys alot

[ocean lantern]

W

[frigid dome]

ok

we eat

68 hp evs cookin'

[ocean lantern]

What about max atk firepon

[frigid dome]

oh god

[ocean lantern]

You could try avoiding 2hko

[frigid dome]

barely get eaten

[ocean lantern]

Not barely

[frigid dome]

(yes i am changing the move typing

wait

i didnt calc the plus 1

[ocean lantern]

No need you absolutely explode to tera fire

[frigid dome]

154-182

[frigid dome]

this why we just sucker punch

[ocean lantern]

Screenshot the bottom text with the full info instead

[frigid dome]

ight

[frigid dome]

this was a mistake

[frigid dome]

just realized im still tera poison

[ocean lantern]

Does it say ogerpon tera? Try non tera

[frigid dome]

same calc

all ogers same the share stats

i think

[ocean lantern]

I'm pretty sure the calc takes the +1 from tera into account , just like it does for the +1 from electro shot

[frigid dome]

thats why it said +1 in the begining

[ocean lantern]

How much atk was this? Most cap at 76+

[frigid dome]

its 76 adamant

[ocean lantern]

Ok

You're not living the tera fire let it go

At least try to live 2 ivy cudgels from 76+ waterpon

And leave it at that you still need damage

[frigid dome]

i could but it waste to much evs and i barely see firepon ngl

[ocean lantern]

Thats what I'm saying

[frigid dome]

how much hp evs am i willing to use here

[ocean lantern]

Idk

For a single attack type (physical/special), eving def/spd is more efficient than eving hp btw

But hp covers both defenses

It's a bit tricky to balance

[frigid dome]

pray no crits fr

[ocean lantern]

Nothing ever crits trust

At that point max hp and drop som def

To cover for special moves

[frigid dome]

my urshifu would like to say otehrwise

lowest it can go

[ocean lantern]

Other than the so very balanced signature moves

How does 180+ non boosted raging bolt treat the bear

[frigid dome]

gulllpp

[ocean lantern]

Especially with the thunderclaps

[frigid dome]

what move

[ocean lantern]

Mainly thunderclap

[frigid dome]

suprisingly well

wait

i forgot calp

shit :/

[ocean lantern]

Yeah

[frigid dome]

suprisingly well

[ocean lantern]

Try living 2

[frigid dome]

do we push for the guarenteed 2ko

done

we survive a draco too

[ocean lantern]

More investment than I thought

[frigid dome]

tbf that is no item

magnet fucks it way more

[ocean lantern]

No one runs magnet

[frigid dome]

so does booster energy

[ocean lantern]

They do run booster tho

Yeah

But you won't live it all

[frigid dome]

booster energy ohkos with draco

i guarentee a 2hko with 76 and with booster bolt

[ocean lantern]

Huh

[frigid dome]

myf i worded it weird

its impossible to get the 3ko

[ocean lantern]

It's ok

[frigid dome]

ye

[ocean lantern]

Honestly it might be too much bulk

Especially if you want some speed

[frigid dome]

i see

what do i need to kill with adament band

[ocean lantern]

If you wanna run brave it's probably fine tho

[frigid dome]

i think the attack evs where we start and the speed we can consider

[ocean lantern]

But only in tr

[frigid dome]

tbf my current one runs only 76

its like a mid speed mon for shit.

[ocean lantern]

How well do you hit 214 hp / 116 def flutter

Bulkiest common set

[frigid dome]

no investment btw

252 sucker barely doesnt ohko

wow

[ocean lantern]

It's kinda unrealistically bulky tho dw

[frigid dome]

ofc ofc

[ocean lantern]

But you don't have 252 evs left

[frigid dome]

bc flutter has 0 defence

[frigid dome]

even with 252 max sucker was hitting was 99.5 😭

[ocean lantern]

Imma teach you how to fish now. Go to munchstats, select reg f bo3 and look at the most used mons. Click the hp+def box to the right and look at the damage you deal to the bulkiest common sets. If you see you miss important ranges even with all evs left put into atk, it's time to lower that bulk

[frigid dome]

ok

i found a way i get a 50/50 to ohko a flutter

forgot to add cc

im decent

[autumn cairn]

https://pokepast.es/550f26d5f526f874

Grassy rain team, any advice on changes?

[lament scroll]

well if its a personal challenge im going to try not to interfere

[ripe turret]

run urs over wellspring, lando over blastoise, and arch over bolt

they’re just better rain abusers generally

scarf rapid strike has a good speed tier that you can benefit from since you don’t have amazing speed control otherwise

blastoise I wouldn’t recommend running in reg f, and lando is a strong option that can spam sandsear in rain

and bolt doesn’t really fit here

also go with miracle seed rilla since arch needs the AV

[ocean lantern]

It's fine if this is just an unintended result, but you shouldt purposefully set ranges as benchmarks for your evs

[shadow crypt]

is this team fire

[digital sierra]

https://pokepast.es/af76fd132525d5ce
been starting to plateau around 1200s with this klefki team i plan to bring to the GC. is it worth salvaging or should i just toss it?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sleek laurel]

For the GC it’s probably mostly fine, you can try Sub or EQ on Ursaluna because Rock Slide just isn’t worth the click tho

It deals too little damage

And the flinches are too unreliable, especially since you’d always rather just OHKO something under Trick Room anyway

EQ is usually best but you have nothing that wants to take one on your side and very little protects so you can try Substitute or also Swords Dance

Also, I’d consider Amoonguss over Wellspring to honestly just click Spore and also heal your Ursaluna but Wellspring is fine

[sleek laurel]

Do note, if you run it, that the use of Swords Dance is to counteract Incineroar’s tomfoolery (and other kinds of Intimidate cycling), not to boost up from +0 because you already deal 1 billion damage at +0 anyway lol

[pliant forge]

If anyone has a chance, can you review my team? https://pokepast.es/43415fefe78c0ab2

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pliant forge]

Quick thoughts: Chein pao I have also done the normal FS set, but figured I’d give assault vest a chance

Raging bolt could probably use assault vest, and more optimized EVs but life orb has been my main item

Ogre probably doesn’t need helping hand, but I like getting some KOs if I lead her with flutter/entei

I’ve also flexed roaring moon for raging bolt too, but overall bolt feels better

[sleek laurel]

Lots of stuff can use EV reworks, and I’d consider Helping Hand Torkoal and Follow Me Ogerpon instead

Bolt is better than Moon in Sun teams fs

[pliant forge]

I got lazy with evs, just wanted to see how the team felt

[sleek laurel]

Im honestly not the best Sun builder out of the raters despite my ironic username but you definitely want more Speed in some of these mons

[pliant forge]

Like entei consistently has HP investment

[sleek laurel]

Entei doesn’t really run much HP, a little tho

Flutter wants Speed, Ogerpon wants some Speed

Flutter wants a LOT of Speed

[pliant forge]

I should say the flutter’s EVs aren’t exact but mainly gambling on less speed but more power

Which of course his bit me back more than a few games

[sleek laurel]

I’m also a fan of stronger Specs Flutter Mane but you really want the Speed-boosting Protosynthesis in Sun

[pliant forge]

I do have a timid flutter that I sub in so maybe I’ll change that one to be less support and more power

[sleek laurel]

Yea, probs

[pliant forge]

And for torkoal if I run helping hand I probably need to get rid of overheat, and from there the eject pack would need to be changed?

[sleek laurel]

Sorry im kinda busy rn but I’ll review the exact spreads later

You can get rid of Heat Wave too

If it’s support Torkoal

Especially since you don’t have Trick Room

[pliant forge]

Me too, just wanted someone’s quick two cents

[sleek laurel]

Fair lol

[pliant forge]

All the more reason to run normal timid flutter with some support, taunt is real nice

[sleek laurel]

Team looks mostly okay bar the EVs

[pliant forge]

I got lazy I know I know

[sleek laurel]

Nah dw lol

EVs are hard to optimize at first

[pliant forge]

I know for a fact entei and bolt can be optimized

Flutter was some random specs modest set I took

And last thought is I really want ruination pao to work but ultimately may scrap the idea 😔

Also been playing around with manual sun setting, whether that’s flutter or subbing in roaring moon

Haven’t tried whims

[digital sierra]

Would swapping ogerpon and bolt for amoonguss and urshifu and swapping gholdengo to the metal coat/nasty plot set work?

[sleek laurel]

Not sure about Bolt for Ursh

Bolt is a very strong piece in non-hard Trick Room-Sun

But the rest yes

[digital sierra]

Should I be worried about the lando-i matchup?

[frigid dome]

hey stallsun

[sleek laurel]

It’s a bit worrisome, you usually bring redirection and then try to explode it

[frigid dome]

yo https://pokepast.es/7a08d879742d80e7 do we feel confident in this for the gc 🤔

[sleek laurel]

Why 8 HP IVs Ursaluna?

[frigid dome]

ohh

i was messing with it and forgot to put it back

[sleek laurel]

LOL

Happens

[frigid dome]

thank you for pointing that out lol

[sleek laurel]

And Urshifu’s spread can probably be reworked but otherwise yes

[frigid dome]

ye. yesterday i was up trying to make it bulked enough to survive shit like it gets 3hko by a ogerpon 76+ ivy cudgel

i believe it gets 3hko from raging thunder clap

if its 180+ without proto

[sleek laurel]

You still have a small chance to get 2 shot but

Yea you need 76 for that

But I think you’re detracting too much from attack for this

If you want the SpDef tho

252 / 156+ / 20 / 0- / 76 / 4 can work

[frigid dome]

also i updated the luna spread. so out of tr i outspeed a 4 ev inin

[sleek laurel]

The Ogerpon calc isn’t relevant because you threaten it with an OHKO

[sleek laurel]

That’s fair

Lemme just check smtg

[frigid dome]

ye bc tbh i dont need max speed. i just need that bulk. because speed is just not outspeeding anything meaningful

[sleek laurel]

Run 164 HP, 4 Def and 12 SpD

Right now you are currently with 211 HP

By lowering it to 209, you minimize Life Orb recoil while getting the same points in other aspects of bulk

It’s just optimization

[frigid dome]

understood

i been thinking maybe to tune up farig somewhat

also i just thought of insane mind games.

[sturdy pecan]

whast current vgc reg

[fiery plinth]

Reg f

[sturdy pecan]

oh alr thx

the google ai overview

said Reg I

so idk

[sleek laurel]

I is the ingame ladder (from tomorrow onwards)

[sturdy pecan]

so like tournaments is Reg F

and ingasme is Reg I

alr thx

[ripe turret]

wait reg i is coming back???

blessed

finally free from reg f purgatory

anyways

https://pokepast.es/7d4fac2831d17a5b this team has been doing very well for me recently, only major problem is really harc + flutter lead

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[ripe turret]

idk how to really improve the mu without switching out a mon or something

but there’s probably something I’m missing

my main plan right now is incin + farig and get up TR, but I am so far 1 for 7 in games against it

so any help would be appreciated

[sleek laurel]

No

Just in the ingame ladder

It’s I substituting J, not F

[sleek laurel]

Honestly not sure if I’d run Hearthpon + Incin here especially if this lead is a problem

Ig Sunny Day is there

Tbh you can try to counteract with Torn + Flutter shenanigans and reposition but it’s a bad mu

Idk I think the team is fine if it’s this mild sun thing, maybe try faster Flutter since it’s Specs

It’s a bad mu but not unplayable and you won’t have a good mu on everything lol

[ripe turret]

oh T-T

the thing with torn + flutter is I have to tera to force at least a trade, otherwise harc can just ohko me and flutter lives moonblast without the tera

if I don't tera and take out flutter then it gets an icy wind which breaks my sash and makes me underspeed it

or harc just goes for rock slide instead and deletes my torn from existence, then flutter is once again underspeeding the opposing flutter

[sleek laurel]

I don’t mean lead torn flutter

I mean bring torn flutter and try to win with tailwind

[ripe turret]

ohh

lmao

[sleek laurel]

But faster flutter can also help in that element

Lmao

[ripe turret]

ok ok

so what would I be leading then

[sleek laurel]

Sorry im so heavily multitasking

Probably torn Blursa is an option

Against this lead

Cause you threaten to explode harc and it can’t really explode you back

And if it’s specs flutter you explode that one first

[pliant forge]

Oh my god

Why’d I think it was the other way around

[ripe turret]

kk thx

[pliant forge]

Probably should have seen what reg ladder would be before making a team :/

[ripe turret]

had to go eat dinner anyways so all good lmao

[pliant forge]

Perhaps I’ll dust off a terapagos team idea I’ve cooked up instead

[ripe turret]

idk if I want to make flutter speed proto since with special proto it can delete things from the game

and with tailwind I haven't found that I really need it that much

but I'll try out the lead

it is a relatively untested team with only around 25 games on the bo3 ladder and a couple roomtours

so I'm still figuring everything out with the leads and stuff

[pliant forge]

I still don’t understand why they split the regulations

At least for Reg J it made sense with mythicals being a bit harder to obtain

[lament scroll]

no nasty plot on gholdengo?

[frigid dome]

its specs.

[hollow parrot]

i dont fully know how to do this, but opinions on how to improve this chi-yu team? my major losing matchup right now is tailwind+landorus-i, which unfortunately i run into constantly.

https://pokepast.es/965c2b570dc06479

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[frigid dome]

hi my fellow vgc players

https://pokepast.es/f3b7fd12efdc3da7

any thoughts

[jovial creek]

Try making hands tera water with ice punch

That should help

[jovial creek]

This looks fine, are you struggling into anything?

Its probably better to go tera water/Stellar on ursh though

[frigid dome]

ye i been testing grass still. its still into the testing bc i ran a few games this morning

[jovial creek]

You could go tera grass mystic water

Idk i dont really like defensive tera on sash

[frigid dome]

true. i was thinkin bout that ngl.

my incin lives a jolly 252 surging strikes

also theres a funny calc for torn

[fiery plinth]

https://pokepast.es/3d98e6b65996efd2 is this good, I need help with ghold set I wanna make it specs but idk the exact evs spread good for it

[frigid dome]

why we running outrage and aq in doubles.

also maybe look at a new change of teras imo

[fiery plinth]

you mean on dnite? aq with choice band and swords of ruin effect does heavy damage even with low power, and outrage is the best option for physical dragons not really ideal but the others are either too weak or good on CERTAIN pokemon

also the teras are normal, nothing abnormal here go check the smogon site for yourself

[frigid dome]

ye but outrage you cant target and aj is just so weak.

[frigid dome]

smogon and vgc are completely different

[fiery plinth]

Umm...buddy you know what smogon is right?

[frigid dome]

not vgc.

[fiery plinth]

smogon has vgc formats in them

[frigid dome]

doesnt make em viable. doubles isnt just vgc

[fiery plinth]

no there are literal vgc formats in it, doubles has it's own format (even doubles UBERS, UU exist) and there is vgc formats with vgc rules

[frigid dome]

doubles ou and such is not vgc at all.

[fiery plinth]

bro are you even comprehending what I'm saying both are separate formats

[frigid dome]

ye whats your point

...

bc thats what im sayin

[fiery plinth]

that both are different formats with their own ruleset... some mons and strategies aren't allowed in one but not in the other... what more do I need to clarify?

[frigid dome]

? what vgc has a completely different meta.

rulesets being similar means nothing

[fiery plinth]

that literally what I'm saying...

[frigid dome]

your proving my point.

in doubles outrage is ass bc you literally cant control it and smogon was never built for vgc.

[fiery plinth]

okay you know what? you do you, I'm not going to respond since you're either ragebaiting or with a really thick skull

[frigid dome]

for exmaple how does one deal with this https://pokepast.es/e46756da37ab44f3

[frigid dome]

idk how young you are but idc. anything i say is "rage bait"

[marsh frigate]

outrage is standard lol

[frigid dome]

you do understnad vgc and doubles are different

wanna see the reg f standard d nite.

[marsh frigate]

this is a vgc set

written for reg f

[frigid dome]

well sorry to tell you ts is not

not even close

[marsh frigate]

check pikalytics as well lol

outrage is normal

[frigid dome]

ill send u 2 versions

[frigid dome]

good luck into flutermane?

omg look its the most common d nite sets to even see

notice anything.

[marsh frigate]

theyre interchangable lol

anyways if you wanna continue lets go to #comp-general-2

[sleek laurel]

@frigid dome outrage is legitimate btw, it’s not a move you click often but it’s a legit nuke click especially alongside like Chien-Pao if you can force a kill or a switch onto something

It’s a guaranteed delete button onto one Mon unless it’s a Fairy-type so you can realistically click it more often than it looks like you can

Meanwhile Aqua Jet is real per se, it has seen use in high level play though mainly in other regulations
I am personally a huge hater because it does 2 damage (4 if supereffective ) but it’s not unused (but you will never see me suggest it)

I would say “standard” is two of Outrage + Spinner + Aerial Ace, but Outrage is still 100% standard

[frigid dome]

who tf says we making outrage standard

[sleek laurel]

Jet is bait tho I’ma be so fr

[frigid dome]

you might be special to believe its good espescially with flutter running around.

[sleek laurel]

There are multiple positions you can afford to just nuke something

[frigid dome]

oh yeah hit into my steel or fairy type.

[sleek laurel]

Flutter is around but then you just don’t click Outrage against it

Steels just die anyway

[frigid dome]

you resist no?

[sleek laurel]

This move does 80 to Gholdengo with Sword of Ruin

You do

And you still die

[frigid dome]

well you get the bait of outrage bc you hungry then i throw my tera raging bolt

[sleek laurel]

Ok well, 70 if it’s the omega bulky set

[sleek laurel]

It’s not a move that you’re always gonna click yea

But often you can just

Nuke something

It’s also an early game click most of the time

[frigid dome]

aint noone gonna be successfull with it in a tourney

shits so counterable and just bait

[sleek laurel]

many have already

I wholeheartedly share this sentiment for Aqua Jet, but like, we’ve seen Top 8 and Top 4 Worlds teams with both moves on the same Dnite

I still think Jet is bait but like it has results

[frigid dome]

question is why we running smogon sets in general for this very bs of a meta game

[sleek laurel]

This is compgen matters atp

[frigid dome]

wtf is compgen.

[sleek laurel]

But I can probably give a more detailed throughout of why you can actually click Outrage later on

#comp-general and #comp-general-2 = compgen

[fiery plinth]

any thoughts?

[lavish nexus]

you'd probably get allot more use out of a playing balance rather than stall and using a plot ghold

[ocean lantern]

trying to build a thundurus to lead with harcanine and spam twaves and rock slides (im sorry). ive cooked 2 ev spreads but idk which one i should pick. idk about the rest of the team tho so defensive priorities arent very clear. any other spread suggestions are welcome

[frigid dome]

I could see this as a very off meta pick actually

eerie impulse hurts like every special attacker who isnt dark typing and dengo (i think)

[ocean lantern]

yeah

[frigid dome]

so you get a free -2 onto flutter

[ocean lantern]

or raging bolt

[frigid dome]

ye

most attackers are also special this reg ive noticed

[ocean lantern]

eh idk

[frigid dome]

i been working on smth for the gc actually.

[ocean lantern]

a lot of bears and ogerpons too

[frigid dome]

currently this just a doc i been workin on.

[frigid dome]

well when you get rid of like the 3-4 maybe 5 good psychical attackers the meta has formed around special

[ocean lantern]

nice

[frigid dome]

rilla, oger, incin, urshi and like maybe smth idk

[frigid dome]

im workin on writing explanations for the rest of the leads.

[ocean lantern]

what is there other than flutter, raging bolt and lando

[frigid dome]

bm, iron crown

i seen alot of iron crown

regidrago

dengo sometimes

torn to be funny

[ocean lantern]

ursa, chien pao, dnite...

[frigid dome]

chien pao d nite and like gouging are like the others i keep seeing and its pissing me off

[ocean lantern]

most run sash no bulk so yeah

[frigid dome]

espescially ting lu

[frigid dome]

idk i seen coverts more

[ocean lantern]

with the sand tomb spam

and yawning fish

[frigid dome]

ye it pmo

[ocean lantern]

i might just notice the sash ones more cause they annoy me the most idk

[frigid dome]

i always expect coverts tbh

bc without it you either need protect or lose your tera

https://pokepast.es/664b284d738a117f here is what I use

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @sleek laurel, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[frigid dome]

i notice we shifted from tera dark recently.

[ocean lantern]

interesting bolt name

[frigid dome]

Reg F is so weird

[ocean lantern]

what do the incin bulk ivs do? i run this cause idk what else to try to live
Incineroar @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 244 HP / 60 Atk / 84 Def / 116 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature

• Fake Out
• Flare Blitz
• Knock Off
• Parting Shot

[frigid dome]

my incin is very weird but

tera ghost gets 3hko by non adamant and tera strikes by urshifu

also lives a cc in base

[ocean lantern]

non adamant is fiction

[frigid dome]

sadly. idk why

also my torn has a 99.9% chance to survive jolly tera water surging strikes

[ocean lantern]

ppl wanna hit hard and with scarf theres not much more you can do with jolly

[ocean lantern]

dude jolly is not real

[frigid dome]

i mean

[ocean lantern]

wake up

[frigid dome]

it is somewhat

i run jolly sash tbf

[ocean lantern]

what do you outspeed

[frigid dome]

espescially bc if u wanna outrun smth

[frigid dome]

adamant urshifu

[ocean lantern]

not if it runs scarf like most do

[frigid dome]

gah damn

[ocean lantern]

yeah

[frigid dome]

no wonder they one shotting incin barely somehow

[ocean lantern]

who evs for jolly shifu smh

[frigid dome]

id expect a 252 180+ to survive somehow

[frigid dome]

idk it use to be meta idk when it became adamant. ig i aint up to date

[ocean lantern]

228 188+ does

[frigid dome]

when did 2.1% of people use lorb

[ocean lantern]

oh wait thats strikes

252 212+ lives 156+ cc if thats what you want to live

but you could run into max atk and then you die

[frigid dome]

who tf runs 156

[ocean lantern]

many

[frigid dome]

meet my favorite game

gambling

[ocean lantern]

you do you

[frigid dome]

anywho

i didnt know the meta changed so much

[ocean lantern]

wdym

[frigid dome]

like it feels like a giant shift from reg H to F and early F to current

[ocean lantern]

well its been a while since early reg f

[frigid dome]

i mean

when reg f came back around

[ocean lantern]

oh