VGC Rates

[jovial creek]

just go gleam if you want a fairy move

[ripe turret]

well AV hits like a slightly less wet noodle at least

[sleek laurel]

Gleam breaks sash both ways and Alluring Voice ignores Wise Guard and offers confusion for the Sash CSR mu

Both moves deal 0 damage

Neither of them can bring Darkshifu to Sash 😭

So its really just Sash breaking with utility

[grizzled nacelle]

also speaking of friendly fire moves

[sleek laurel]

?

[grizzled nacelle]

i was thinking of putting lava plume on torkoal to activate ceruledge's flash fire

thats why i had it tbh

[sleek laurel]

ok but you have to swap Ledge out anyway

[grizzled nacelle]

lmao ofc

[sleek laurel]

Lol

[grizzled nacelle]

too creative perhaps

[sleek laurel]

A bit yea

[grizzled nacelle]

i have

major kyogre problems

because of drizzle and origin pulse

[sleek laurel]

Kyogre looks annoying a bit yea

I would recommend Tera Water on Calyrex over Fire here

[grizzled nacelle]

ok

[sleek laurel]

Ursaluna-Hisui with Trick Room support from the Calyrex also helps a lot against it

Guts-boosted Facade is an OHKO

[grizzled nacelle]

interesting

so bring ursaluna in the back when i see a kyogre

[sleek laurel]

It helps yea, just make sure to get it in on Trick Room

Otherwise any Water-type move will also OHKO

[grizzled nacelle]

ok thank you

[sleek laurel]

Np

[grizzled nacelle]

also how does urshifu fit in? i get smeargle but is urshifu just like back up in case it doesnt work out

[grizzled nacelle]

https://pokepast.es/f436b74fc7b7280f team now

[upbeat geode]

Damn, and I wanted to send it to the moon...

I mean... those hydro pumps do be hitting hard tho...

[ripe turret]

no, I was actually thinking like a slow single strike shifu because it hits through protect which is one of the main tools for stalling TR

and besides rapidfu gets cooked by the sun

[sleek laurel]

Maybe, but then you have Urshifu-R which is considerably stronger, has a perfectly accurate move, ignores Protect and Defense boosts, and doesn't need to be at red- or almost red health to do damage

Greninja also has serious longevity issues, low damage output without the Torrent boost which is again unviable due to unreliability, and Wide Lens is a bad item on everything not named Maushold in Regulation H

Attempting to patch accuracy through items or similar commitment is just salt, sometimes it's tempting but it's not worth it

Maushold is an exception because you will almost always get a few hits off and that's where the consistency comes from, and Population Bomb has ungodly damage output

Then again it was only viable offensively in Regulation H due to the power level drop

[grizzled nacelle]

ohh that makes sense

[upbeat geode]

Damn, my viability!

[sleek laurel]

Yea, unfortunately it works like that sometimes

I would seriously recommend trying to build off of a tried-and-true core, if you liked the Water-type offense, you can do Kyogre + Calyrex-I or Kyogre + Zacian

Kyogre + Calyrex-I is going particularly hard right now

[upbeat geode]

I'm not married to water offense, I just like having at least one glass cannon/hammer mon. I also have a wise glasses/calm mind Delphox with max Sp.Atk investment. Some other mons like that too. I don't want these mons to be the centerpiece, but just like, secondary offense. My "rooks", if you've seen Wolfie's last vid about training a chess player

[sleek laurel]

I'm a chess player myself, igi lol

That's fair, but there are other stronger and better glass cannons around

For example, this Delphox could be a Chi-Yu

[upbeat geode]

Like Chi-Yu eh? Interesting...

[sleek laurel]

Yea, that's an example

Ofc its better to start building from the restricteds and go for the other Pokémon afterwards, but this is to say that usually, if you want to have some sort of archetype component on your team, there will usually be a prime option for them

In terms of specific Pokémon

[upbeat geode]

I getchu, I getchu. Looking at a Ho-Oh currently...

Thinking of sun and longevity...

[sleek laurel]

Ho-Oh Sun teams are there yea, usually alongside Koraidon

[upbeat geode]

Oh yeah, KORAIDON. (I'm on Violet usually, I forget)

[grizzled nacelle]

Urshifu @ Focus Sash  
Ability: Unseen Fist  
Level: 50  
Tera Type: Fighting  
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD  
Careful Nature  
- Wicked Blow  
- Sucker Punch  
- Close Combat  
- Detect

sumn like dat?

tera dark*

[ripe turret]

either that or you could go with a choice band set, but sash works yeah

and tera dark ofc

[sleek laurel]

Stellar is also viable on Sash

And I think it sees more usage than Dark (on Sash) but both are fine

Fighting isn't too good tho yea

[sleek laurel]

Do 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe with either Jolly or Adamant

[grizzled nacelle]

he said he wanted a slow one to fit in with the rest

[sleek laurel]

Oh for HardRoom?

Then I would go with the Banded Tera Dark set

And mix up bulk and offense

[grizzled nacelle]

fair

[grizzled nacelle]

ah the Final one https://pokepast.es/e26b859ac3d42dcb

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sleek laurel]

Some EV spreads still need altering but it looks p good, I'd recommend going for dex spreads tbh lol

[grizzled nacelle]

alr then

[rare hill]

anyone there? I need my team rated.

[jovial creek]

yeah send it

[steep mesa]

im js trying to make a team with pokemon i like, should i change any evs/ivs/movesets? https://pokepast.es/4b1ee2c3d7f1532c

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sleek laurel]

Team looks fine beyond the Pikachu actually

That said, you're not really supposed to send teams for rating if you're set in stone about not changing your Pokémon

[steep mesa]

oh myb

[sleek laurel]

I can't recommend you to keep the Pikachu in, but the team in general looks fine (maybe the Volcarona is a little weird here too)

But don't worry

If anything I would consider a different Calyrex-I spread by now

36 is a bit too slow with TailRoom

But theres no real stablished one lmao

[steep mesa]

https://pokepast.es/7fb2f744b94e448f how abt this?

[sleek laurel]

There are like 50 different ones, this one is fine

If you find it too frail, there are others, you can sacrifice Attack as well

[steep mesa]

okay ty!

[grizzled nacelle]

https://pokepast.es/045c29b829f46629

need one more and idek if this is very good tbh so yeah

ignore tera types im just lazy to fix them rn

[ripe turret]

alright I'm back lol

lando looks ok but one minor change to 132hp 4def 4spdef lets it guaranteed live a tera water surging strikes from jolly shifu (adamant has like a 1.16% chance to ohko) after terastallizing to a neutral type (poison, steel) and also a lorb csr astral

drop the sash on whims for cloak, and give it light screen and encore over protect and helping hand, also change it to the smogdex EVs

play rough>protect on zama and fix its EVs, it does not want to be using its attack stat very often and doesn't want max speed either, a mix of defense, hp, a little spdef and speed will work (smogdex should have the spread)

specs ogre is not good, I would suggest switching to a mystic water set that I will send later

hands looks good

for your final mon maybe just incin lol

Zamazenta-Crowned @ Rusted Shield
Level: 50
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 100 HP / 4 Atk / 236 Def / 4 SpD / 164 Spe
Tera Type: Dragon
Impish Nature

• Body Press
• Behemoth Bash
• Wide Guard
• Protect

here's the zama set

Kyogre @ Mystic Water
Level: 50
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 156 SpA / 4 SpD / 44 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Grass
Modest Nature

• Water Spout
• Origin Pulse
• Ice Beam
• Protect

and here's the ogre set

[tribal void]

https://pokepast.es/0b7b1bab5398b1ff uhhh here's a nala + groudon team. I do feel like slotting flamethrower on chi yu would be beneficial but i have no idea where to slot it over. Also, would appreciate if anyone listed any matchups that look weird or bad to play for me to have at the back of my mind

[ripe turret]

I would definitely run another attacking move on lunala at least

what exactly I'm not quite sure

maybe moonblast with fairy tera?

[grizzled nacelle]

i ended up adding gastrodon as my last mon

but thanks for the help

[ripe turret]

ye

[grizzled nacelle]

and yh i made lando tera poison

so it gets boosted on sludge bomb

[ripe turret]

alr cool

[grizzled nacelle]

https://pokepast.es/0e7f00c591ab187c

this it now

[ripe turret]

ok

did you want to leave lando and whims as is?

[sleek laurel]

Rain goes for the rater role when???/?

[sleek laurel]

Seconding everything Rain said, I would consider Amoonguss as the last mon tbh

It's Gastrodon but better

[grizzled nacelle]

oh shoot i forgot the evs and sash but i kinda wanted to keep helping hand on the whims

[sleek laurel]

May not be outright immune to Water

But it takes pitiful damage and hits you back with Spore and Rocky Helmet

[sleek laurel]

Thats viable

But still change the EVs

[ripe turret]

ye

[sleek laurel]

I like Amoong more here

More than Incin

You kinda want the help versus Ursh R

[ripe turret]

yeah I'm no good at 6th mons lol

[sleek laurel]

Nah you're fine

[grizzled nacelle]

amoonguss can take most electric hits too right

[sleek laurel]

Yes

[ripe turret]

ye

[grizzled nacelle]

thats solid

[ripe turret]

esp from mirai

(actually more like almost always from mirai)

[sleek laurel]

It takes a Drift always

And 50% chance to live if crit

So it takes 47 out of 48 drifts

[ripe turret]

yeah I was just saying that mirai is like the main elec user that you'll be taking hits from

[sleek laurel]

Ye

[grizzled nacelle]

and drift activates helmet

yh i think imma change it

[sleek laurel]

Yea

[grizzled nacelle]

take lando evs from spatk or speed

[sleek laurel]

Spatk

[ripe turret]

spatk

ye

[sleek laurel]

Also, about Whimsi

If you wanna keep Helping Hand

Go bulky Covert Cloak as Rain said, and drop Protect for Encore

Encore is semi-mandatory (you can drop it for Taunt in a few cases but one of the two is pretty much needed), if you want to use Helping Hand then that's the best way to fit it

[grizzled nacelle]

bulky on both ends or hp?

mines 252 hp 252+ def

[sleek laurel]

For whims?

[grizzled nacelle]

yh

[sleek laurel]

https://pokepast.es/087906ce6bc9167f

Here's the full paste

With EVs and all

Amoong having 27 Speed IVs is crucial btw

[grizzled nacelle]

for trick room?

[sleek laurel]

Because then you underspeed Ice Rider in Trick Room

[grizzled nacelle]

yh

[sleek laurel]

And click Spore

Ima go sleep

11:43 pm

Gl with the team tho

[grizzled nacelle]

Dang gn

its 9:45 here thanks to all you guys helping me

[ripe turret]

lol gn stallsun

[rare hill]

hey anyone there

[rare hill]

anyone?

[ripe turret]

you can just send your team and someone will (hopefully) get to it

[rare hill]

alright thanks

https://pokepast.es/09a824e810cf0374

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sleek laurel]

Will get to this when I arrive at cram school

[sleek laurel]

Sorry had some classes

Still here?

Ping me whenever, there's some stuff I wanna say

But to summarize, I like the core and concept but some of the specifics are either suboptimal or unviable

It's very salvageable and easy to work with tho, just requires a bit of an overhaul, but the concept is not only viable but also meta dominant so just changing some of the non-restricteds and a bit of the sets will do the trick

[rare hill]

alr you there?

[rare hill]

here just whenever ur ready

[sleek laurel]

Mb was tryna get something fixed

[rare hill]

its fine

[sleek laurel]

Ok so, the Miraidon, Calyrex-I, Iron Hands TR core is extremely good, but there are some specifics about their sets that are suboptimal, and particularly the Tera Types I noticed you didn't change at all

[rare hill]

Yeah I didn't really know what to do for tera tyoes

types*

[sleek laurel]

Calyrex-I is nearly perfect but it wants a different Tera Type, either Water or Fire on this team

Miraidon wants Tera Fairy and Dazzling Gleam > Discharge

And Iron Hands wants Assault Vest and one of Tera Water or Tera Bug

[rare hill]

ah alr

I see the tera-types are more defensively chosen?

[sleek laurel]

Yea

[jovial creek]

it depends on the mon but generally yes

[sleek laurel]

Miraidon's is more about boosting Dazzling Gleam, but it has its defensive utility for sure

Calyrex-I's and Iron Hands' are defensive yes

[rare hill]

alr

[sleek laurel]

That said, these three members of the team are otherwise perfect, but the rest want to be changed

Notably, it feels like you're a bit TOO committed to Trick Room but with a Miraidon by your side, which is probably not the best approach

[rare hill]

I assumed miraidon could be good in sticky situations where trick room is down

[sleek laurel]

One common misconception people make is that Calyrex-I needs Trick Room to be up to function

But that's not true

[sleek laurel]

That is true, but that's not the only use

And if you rely entirely on Miraidon to handle non-TR scenarios

It will get overloaded

[rare hill]

ok

[sleek laurel]

What I usually like to do in these cores

Beyond Miraidon + CIR + Hands

Is to fit in a faster offensive mon to help faster situations, and then a bit of support

My personal recommendation for the faster offensive mon is Urshifu-R

[rare hill]

hm

[sleek laurel]

Particularly Scarf Urshifu-R, for a few reasons:

• It outspeeds and threatens to OHKO Calyrex-S with Tera Water
• It has Unseen Fist, which is tremendous with Choice Specs Miraidon, because people like to Protect in front of Miraidon to scout for what move it's locking into, but Urshifu doesn't care
• It threatens the Fire- and Rock-types that threaten Calyrex-I
• It has access to Coaching to support Calyrex-I as well, in matchups where it (Calyrex-I) has the potential to sweep with a Coaching boost

[rare hill]

what is coaching? is it like a move like helping hand?

[sleek laurel]

+1 Atk and +1 Def to your ally

[rare hill]

ok

[sleek laurel]

As for the supportive Pokémon

Farigiraf is a great fit here; it threatens opposing Calyrex-I and Calyrex-S and blocks Fake Out and similar priority for Miraidon (who cannot Protect), it has its own Trick Room for Calyrex-I and Iron Hands, and it has Helping Hand for, well, everyone

The last slot is very much filler, you can fit a lot of stuff in

[rare hill]

well so the team would be
Calyrex-Ice
Miraidon
Urshifu-R
farigiraf
Iron Hands
Filler

[sleek laurel]

Yes

[rare hill]

hm

[sleek laurel]

As for filler, my personal recommendations are either Ogerpon-H, Incineroar, or something like Roaring Moon to have a Tailwind option

[rare hill]

I think I will prob go with ogerpon-h or incin to try and get raw power or pivoting

[sleek laurel]

Preference towards the first two honestly, offering either double Fake Out or a Follow Me option

Yea

[rare hill]

I don't really want a tailwind setter cuz well..

trickroom

[sleek laurel]

TailRoom is real, but for this team, I like this other option more yea

Be right back!

[rare hill]

Alr

[rare hill]

u back?

@sleek laurel ?

[sleek laurel]

Sorry, had to go buy lunch

[rare hill]

alr its fine

[sleek laurel]

Turns out we were going to the restaurant and I didn't know LOP

Anyway, anything else?

[rare hill]

so I made the team adjustments

https://pokepast.es/8dac9fb30db50fb8

this is it

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rare hill]

lemme know any needed adjustments

[broken shuttle]

looks better to me

needs some tera type adjustments

[lost phoenix]

Also ideally use eseed on farig bcz opposing calyi does still look scary

[broken shuttle]

go dazzling gleam>discharge mirai
tera water farig>normal
would recommend electric seed farig>mental herb
hands tera should probably be water but there may be other options

looks a little csr weak so be careful abt that

[sleek laurel]

@rare hill this, I forgot to mention Farig item and Tera mb

Rest you probably forgot to change lol, happens

[rare hill]

well thanks so much for the help everyone

😄

[broken shuttle]

[rare hill]

but one more thing

hearthflame, urshifu-r and miraidon all have their main purposes outside of trick room

isn't that a bit unbalanced since there is only one main trick room sweeper?

oh wait nvm.

Farig, iron hands lead for fake out trick room set up

switch out iron hands helping hand calyrex-ice and sweep

miraidon or urshifu-r typically in back as emergency sweep when trick room is gone

[broken shuttle]

yeah that can work

you can also do miraidon + farig and volt switch into ice rider or hands

as you tr

[restive mirage]

hey i just finished my reg i set for sv and pasted it on showdown but since im new to comp pokemon i wanna know if this team has any major flaws and stuff could yall give it a look

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Band
Ability: Unseen Fist
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Surging Strikes
• Close Combat
• U-turn
• Aqua Jet

Ogerpon-Hearthflame (F) @ Hearthflame Mask
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 212 HP / 76 Atk / 28 Def / 4 SpD / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Ivy Cudgel
• Wood Hammer
• Spiky Shield
• Follow Me

Miraidon @ Magnet
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature

• Electro Drift
• Thunderbolt
• Dragon Pulse
• Tera Blast

Tornadus @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 4 SpA / 76 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Tailwind
• Bleakwind Storm
• Rain Dance
• Taunt

Calyrex-Ice @ Clear Amulet
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 SpD
Brave Nature

• Glacial Lance
• Zen Headbutt
• Protect
• High Horsepower

Raichu-Alola @ Focus Sash
Ability: Surge Surfer
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

• Fake Out
• Alluring Voice
• Thunderbolt
• Psychic

[burnt surge]

!shareteam

[drifting onyx]

Pokémon Showdown's team database is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply save your team to Showdown's database and you can share your team offsite by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team, scroll to the bottom of the team, untick the checkbox to make your team public, and press the button that says Upload to Showdown database.

You can then take the link to your team and share that link to share the team with other people.

[humble lichen]

Zen Headbutt on Caly

Odd choice

[obsidian wadi]

so I tried to make a cool discharge spam team but it dosent work so well https://pokepast.es/5e7c6be6b7b16546

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[chilly jasper]

https://pokepast.es/2c5b68c2f2b5d0a1

Trying something a little bit different with this iteration of the team, usually run oger fire over klefki to have an offensive option

But I would get a lot of value from screens, just not sure if I prefer grimsnarl or klefki

[chilly jasper]

Been thinking more on it

Klefki gives me a third fire weakness, and no matter what (w/o tera) It get ko'd by koraidon , grimsnarl under vessel of ruin is guaranteed to at least get up both screens and then I can run snarl to help with miraidon

[sleek laurel]

Grimm is an infinitely better screen setter

It has better bulk, MUCH better offenses and access to Spirit Break to help against Miraidon (and other silly Special Attackers), a part-Dark typing to help against both Calyrex-S and opposing Prankster, and Klefki's main niche in hazards is not relevant in VGC

[chilly jasper]

i just didn't like having two dark types, but unfortunately its just inevitable aha

[ripe turret]

don't use dialga-o here

iron leaves is fake imo so don't use it either

tera grass>ghost on incin since you have goggles already

hydro pump>icy wind and eterrain>encore on bundle

go max speed whims (use the smogon spread)

oh and don't run tera ice bundle, just do tera ghost or smth

[obsidian wadi]

okay thx

[ripe turret]

yup

generally I think dgleam here would be better

but if you want to keep discharge you probably want to add lunala over dialga and something like ursaluna maybe

[misty tapir]

https://pokepast.es/813d4b7db86c0681

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[broken shuttle]

hi, we're currently playing regulation i which allows for two restricted mons on your team which has none

[jovial creek]

surely that is not correct grammatically

[broken shuttle]

https://tenor.com/view/rizzler-the-rizzler-christian-turn-rizzler-turn-gif-3468410536510015644

[misty tapir]

This is for indigo disk but I could also make a team that's for this regulation

[broken shuttle]

what do you mean by for indigo disk?

[misty tapir]

Team for indigo disk

[broken shuttle]

right you said that, but we rate for VGC here, do you mean for the indigo disk DLC?

[misty tapir]

Yeah, I thought that was somewhat vgc/competitive as well. Should I go somewhere else for that?

[ripe turret]

I think it is lol

the sentence looks weird but it reads fine

[lavish nexus]

VGC is allot different to playing the story

[sleek laurel]

This

[chilly jasper]

https://pokepast.es/e89983f0ca1d0478

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[chilly jasper]

i think

its in its final form

https://pokepast.es/c2fae487ebb5a8ea

i lied its better now

the four i will bring will depend on their team, if im worried about special attackers (flutter caly s) i bring ting lu grim sinistcha and lunala/terapagos if they have nasty phys attackers it'll be incin over ting lu

[eternal cliff]

the team seems weak into koraidon teams

[chilly jasper]

yeah

thats the biggest issue

hence meteor beam lunala

reflect + intim should ease the pressure a bit though

hopefully allowing luna to set up and kill it

[eternal cliff]

leading incin + grimm just seems bad to me

0 pressure

I guess tbf you don't really have any lead that pressures immediately

[chilly jasper]

i can also lead sinstcha to try and tr if they don't lead korai

ting lu and grim are the teams main lead, tho ting lu always inflicts some amount of pressure thanks to fissure

[shadow coral]

https://pokepast.es/37ca268d7a3ea0eb

[ripe turret]

dgleam>moonblast on flutter and go with a defensive tera like normal or smth, also give it a different item

I would suggest taking the sash off of csr, give it to flutter, and maybe change to a spell tag tera ghost set

don’t make koraidon max/max with clamulet, run a lorb set or add some bulk

and don’t run bastiodon 🙏

[tribal void]

bastiodon mafia

[shadow coral]

So I know I want to keep flutter and incin for sure but I can’t think of two other pokemon that would help a lot

[hearty tide]

bolt

?

brute bonnet?

[shadow coral]

Yeah I was thinking of bonnet and torkoal

Or bolt and torkoal

[hearty tide]

why torkoal

[shadow coral]

Sun

[hearty tide]

nvm

alternatively you could js run ability shield korai and add a weezing

[shadow coral]

I thought about that too

[shadow coral]

Wait actually that might fix a lot of issues

[shadow coral]

Ok here’s attempt two https://pokepast.es/d5df3c8ad290ebcd

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[broken shuttle]

2 things: incineroar is way too passive for a team like this, i would test chi-yu as an alternative

second, weezing-g basically needs some way of spreading poison in order to output pressure

i would suggest poison gas or toxic spikes

[shadow coral]

Would torkoal be worth considering over incin as a secondary sun setter?

[wheat estuary]

https://pokepast.es/16378eacc33b10f3 prob very basic but im jumping back into vgc

reg i

[lavish nexus]

Try give urshifu aqua jet for moon room teams since you're quite vulnerable to them as is

Also what is your calyrex built to live?

[tribal void]

https://pokepast.es/0398aa43090f5f64 basic calyI mirai team i made

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tribal void]

i wanted to use ursh dark over ursh water as i really liked its dark typing + i didn't really have a ghost resist outside of farig

[sleek laurel]

Looks p nice

[tribal void]

wicked blow also does very good against both caly's with it either forcing a tera, sack, or switching out since you cannot protect against it(though same could be said for banded rapidfu)

[sleek laurel]

Can't see anything immediately wrong

I like the Darkfu idea

Because it can always take an Astral Barrage anyway

[tribal void]

it also has the benefit of doing ok against amoong

[sleek laurel]

And yea

Amoong is a problem only if they have Terrain control

But Terrain control + Amoong is underestimated by Mirai players and a genuine threat

[tribal void]

the only thing that may cause a problem (theorhetically as i haven't fought it yet) might be screens

tfairy nala looks a bit scary imo

but i haven't fought one yet

to tell

[sleek laurel]

Screens arent that bad

Nala tho

Is a tough mu yes

Usually you wanna chip it with something and then target it with Miraidon

Electro Drift is an OHKO without Shadow Shield unless its like

Near max spdef

[tribal void]

or screens up

[sleek laurel]

Screens + Nala could be bad

[tribal void]

alternatively tpoison landoI is pretty good

[sleek laurel]

But then you Darkfu + Caly-I

And yea

[tribal void]

the worry with darkfu is that tfairy nala on mirai screens is like super problem

since usually water can just hit hard without worrying about resists

but like i said before i have no idea in practice since i somehow haven't seen screens nala in like the 30 games ive played with this

[spare widget]

I'm gonna be honest, I built this entire team just to use Orthworm, and this probably is not good at ALL but here's my thought process behind each 'mon:

• Orthworm is there to deal with fairy and grass mons that set up tailwind or support while not having to worry about Groudon's Earthquakes.
• Groudon is a semi popular mon in Reg I because it sets sun, and I like its design. I gave it Ancient Power in case we run into a flying type, Earthquake in case I needed Orth/Ho-Oh, and Prec Blades because, idk, it has higher BP.
• Farig is there mostly for Trick Room, Dragon coverage with Dazzling Gleam, and Helping Hand if needed.
• Not a big fan of Incin in VGC but I main him in Smash so he gets a pass, and also because Flare Blitz gets a boost in sun on top of STAB, and Goggles for Spore protection, didn't know what other item to use.
• Ho-Oh is there because Joey Pokeaim used it so I figured why not, it's got Brave Bird which is good and it can play a bit of support with Life Dew regenerator. I think I also use it for Urshifu counters but in retrospect not a great idea.
• I needed a last slot and talked to some friends and heard Venusaur does well in sun so yup there's Solar Beam and Sleep Powder to boot. Chlorophyll in sun has been doing me wonders but probably isn't the best when paired with Farig's Trick Room.

[ripe turret]

this is a cool team, but unfortunately a lot of the sets are unviable, for example CB groudon and lefties farigiraf, and a lot of the move/item choices are also suboptimal

I would suggest using a tried-and-true sample team, but if you really want to keep this team then I can give you some suggestions to improve it

[spare widget]

That'd be awesome thanks

[ripe turret]

alr here we go

idk much about orthworm so I don't think I'm gonna say much about it, but one thing is that I think investing more in special defense is a good idea so that it doesn't get knocked over by a stray special attack, especially if you're going to go with an iron defense setup set

for the rest of your team, I would personally shuffle around the items

clamulet goes to gdon to ignore intimidate, lefties go to ho-oh for that extra survivability paired with regenerator, goggles go to farig, and give incin either the AV or rocky helmet and tera grass so you can still have a powder immunity on it

venusaur is very mid in this reg, you could lowkey just replace it with flutter mane or something

ho-oh wants tailwind over life dew as generally tailwind is gonna be more useful and even though it isn't prankster boosted, it can still completely swing games if you can get it set up, and give it tera grass because it resists miraidon/waters which are the main things that threaten ho-oh

farigiraf goes dgleam>foul play so it can threaten the calyrexes and lunala, also go tera water because your cir matchup is a little awkward imo

brick break>knock off on incin and change parting shot to u-turn if you go with the AV set

here's the groudon set
Groudon @ Clear Amulet
Level: 50
Ability: Drought
EVs: 188 HP / 132 Atk / 92 Def / 28 SpD / 68 Spe
Tera Type: Fire
Adamant Nature

• Precipice Blades
• Heat Crash
• Swords Dance
• Protect

[spare widget]

omg tysm

[ripe turret]

yup

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[ripe turret]

something I forgot to say yesterday btw, a lot of your EV spreads are inefficient mainly due to all of them being minmaxed except for on the one mon (farigiraf) who wants them semi-minmaxed lmao

you can look on the smogdex for the EV spreads, just go to the reg i section (or reg g if the mon doesn’t have a page for reg i yet)

[spare widget]

Cool thanks

[inner basin]

https://pokepast.es/ff236d6ef96a22af

im not sure what Evs i should run on urshifu and kyogre. Also i feel like Grimmsnarl is a really strong against the team

[ripe turret]

urshifu is fine, you could make kyogre 76+ SpA and put a little more into defense

against grimm I think you just lead zac and nuke it

[jovial creek]

Go mystic water kyogre

And run hydro pump over one of ice beam/thunder

What grimm teams are you struggling with?

[inner basin]

Grim kyogre/calyrex - i balance

[jovial creek]

Yeah that would be rough

Making kyogre more offensive would help

[inner basin]

Like more its stat spread more offensive?

[weak citrus]

How to put teams in here?

[marsh frigate]

https://pokepast.es/208d62224c5abc63 are there any glaring issues with this team or specific mons that it would struggle with

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[ornate cloak]

Csr + Zamazenta balance

https://pokepast.es/6b1ff3978e15bae1

[sleek laurel]

Not that I can tell

Sorry havent rated much these days

Its called "studying for the entrance exam"

Team looks really good, at most I would replace Grimm if you feel like you need Terrain control but Grimm is so good with Pagos I'm not even sure

Test both ways ig

I also love the Wellspring call here because it fits Follow Me and Water-type damage in one slot

Seal of approval overall

[sleek laurel]

Helping Hand Incin is a bit niche, I would run either Flare Blitz or Will-O-Wisp instead

That's the only thing too, seal of approval as well

Great teams y'all sent 👍

[sleek laurel]

You are a bit Amoonguss weak otherwise, it forces Caly-S to click Psychic on it and can Tera for a guaranteed Spore

I would do Flare Blitz and either Safety Goggles or Tera Grass on Incin then

Preference towards Goggles because you have Rilla and that helps with Ursh-R way more significantly than Rocky Helmet on Incin

But the other 5 mons look perfect and these are minor details

Overall 👍 team

[ornate cloak]

Alright will change that, tysm!

[sleek laurel]

Np goat, gl with the team

[ornate cloak]

Ty man! Appreciate the help

[marsh frigate]

thanks

also what are your thoughts on parting shot instead of twave

[sleek laurel]

Viable

For this team it might make sense because its way more offensive

And TWave is more useful for longer games

[rare hill]

https://pokepast.es/74228e75757cb453

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lost phoenix]

Archaludon is sadly just bad. You also notably have nothing to answer calyrex shadow rider

The simplest changes to make this team usable would be to sub out archa and wellspring for electric seed farigiraf and choice scarf urshifu rapid strike

[rare hill]

alr

https://pokepast.es/516baa3fbf0aa112

this is with the changes

[lost phoenix]

Also use the dex spreads for all the mons

And adjust your teras too

[rare hill]

alr

I don't see what is wrong with the tera types besides iron hands

[lost phoenix]

You have a tera normal farigiraf and tera flying tornadus

[rare hill]

so wth do I change em to.

[lost phoenix]

Steel on farig, dark on torn, fire on hands

[rare hill]

Not to like yk be nitpicky or anything like that and I know I am being dumb when I ask this:
why? like can you explain why?

[tribal void]

isn't tera water better on hands?

you aren't weak to hhp

unlike fire

and helps against opposing ogre/ursh

[lost phoenix]

steel resists ice from calyrex ice rider, which helps in a pinch as the rest of your team is pretty weak to never melt ice ice rider
tera fire on hands is mostly for the koraidon matchup, as it resists moonblast from flutter mane and isnt weak to bolt
tera dark makes torn immune to prankster taunt/encore

[rare hill]

makes sense

https://pokepast.es/cc05799e393e65cb

updated

anything else?

[lost phoenix]

as i said, use smogon dex sets for ur mons

ur evs are suboptimal and there r a few moves u should be running that u arent

[rare hill]

no offense or anything but like you aren't giving proper info like what moves I should or should not run but I do get that you ain't here to spoonfeed me all the answers but most of these moves are mainly just from pikalytics
I don't rlly know proper movesets or anything

[lost phoenix]

smogon dex i am referring to has all the movesets and evs:
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/miraidon/ as an example

[icy meteor]

Hey so im creating a new team, and I’m struggling to know what to add here. I need a Pokemon that is good inside & outside of trick room, and the last one is good whatever style it is https://pokepast.es/795011e5431ad85f

[untold relic]

https://pokepast.es/a1193cadc9e819ac
if geph trashes on Scov here i will walk into prague with scov groudon

and proceed to hit every single pblades

[jovial creek]

Don't go sitrus incin

What's your csr answer

[untold relic]

copium atm

(incin + speed wake)

[broken shuttle]

why is it mystic wake dawg

[untold relic]

what should it be

specs?

[broken shuttle]

AV or lorb

so

AV

oh both are taken lol

i don't really see why you need rilla here tbh

you have scov and gdon

go fm>rilla and make it AV wake

[untold relic]

flut wants sash here tho

and scov has sash

[broken shuttle]

item clause truly despises you

[broken shuttle]

i would do Urshifu-R and Grimmsnarl as your last two

grimmsnarl gives you speed control and additional bulk w. screens + twave and urshifu is good in and out of trick room

[untold relic]

idk just filled the gaps with goodstuff

could go Roaring Moon here tbh it wouldn't be horrible

[icy meteor]

Aight ty

[icy meteor]

@broken shuttle ts good?

https://pokepast.es/6044ead4895404d2

[sleek laurel]

I think

LOrb Landorus and Scarf Urshifu is generally better

Especially if you're doing Coaching on Urshifu

Also, the Tera Fairy + Dazzling Gleam Miraidon variants are generally better for Specs Miraidon sets unless your team has a lot of Ground- or Electric-types

[icy meteor]

Scarf lando outspeeds Miridon so thats y it’s scarf (ik it sacrifices a lot of damage, trust me I was an Life orb user before someone told me)

[sleek laurel]

I figured

After I said that

It feels like your team has fine enough Miraidon counterplay, but if you're seeing enough success as is you can keep it

[icy meteor]

I don’t need fairy for opposing Miridons as I lead lando w my Miridon so it counters theirs, + I can use Tera electric discharge next to lando

[sleek laurel]

It just feels like Scarf Urshifu + LO Lando would drastically increase your Calyrex-S matchup's quality

Which feels like a bigger threat for this team especially since Incin has no Dark-type STAB

[icy meteor]

It’s Urshifu that I have issues with

[sleek laurel]

Tera Fairy goes beyond opposing Miraidon

[icy meteor]

Should I use AV then?

[sleek laurel]

It hits Iron Hands and Koraidon and its a generally great lategame cleaner move

It also lets you hit frailer Ground-types without having to Draco

[icy meteor]

If I see them I js use Caly-I TR mode

[sleek laurel]

Iron Hands has a good Caly-I matchup

Koraidon doesn't tho yea

[icy meteor]

Well Koridon doesnt
I mean Wolfey’s set does but I’m learning against that team

[sleek laurel]

Yea lol

Wolfey's set doesn't either

Life Orb Close Combat still doesnt KO

And Glacial Lance is evisceration + Incineroar

Unless you mean the whole team

That said

If you're having success with Scarf Landorus, the team looks fine

[icy meteor]

Iron hands a small threat
I can’t be good against every Pokemon in the game
I’m just tryna be good w my restrictes

I have major problems against Lunala

[sleek laurel]

I still don't see whats the great advantage of Discharge over Dazzling Gleam tho

Although actually there is one

[icy meteor]

It’s much more powerful + para chance

[sleek laurel]

Which is allowing you to run Tera Electric instead to reliably nuke non-Ground type resists

And Para chance yea

[icy meteor]

Yes

[sleek laurel]

Miraidon doesn't care about resists unless they're Grounds anyway

Yea I mean

If you're not going for these adaptions

Team looks fine

Actually

[icy meteor]

I really need a Lunala check tho

Like

[sleek laurel]

Ok so

Hear me out

[icy meteor]

I would use dark urshi but thats 3 dark types

[sleek laurel]

Knock Off > Taunt on Incineroar

You don't fear Trick Room, you don't fear Amoonguss

Taunt isn't doing you much here

[icy meteor]

I’ll use AV for caly

[sleek laurel]

And you get a clean OHKO on Calyrex-S as well as a much more reliable way to deal with Lunala

Oh

Then yea

That helps a LOT vs Lunala too

Knock Off + AV

[icy meteor]

Yeah but not enough

[sleek laurel]

Honestly, it might be a bit of a Tera Electric Miraidon matchup

[icy meteor]

I need to remove it IMMEDIATELY otherwise Caly & Miridon cant use their powerful moves

Cause of wide guard

[sleek laurel]

You Electro Drift it with Miraidon

[icy meteor]

Okie but then there is Caly

[sleek laurel]

OHKO without Shadow Shield or put it in range of anything

[icy meteor]

Weezing to remove shadow shield?

[sleek laurel]

No

That will deny you Electric Terrain

I feel like

[icy meteor]

Well obviously but I can position around it

[sleek laurel]

Your Lunala mu is fine with Incin + Electric Miraidon, the thing is you're overreliant on Discharge

Also

One option

Since you're not Scarf Urshifu

Is to run Taunt > Coaching

Which denies Wide Guard from Lunala

Frees up the Incineroar slot

(The moveslot I mean)

[icy meteor]

But then how do I position Urshifu

[sleek laurel]

Get it in outside of Trick Room

Another option

Is to go Landorus + Miraidon

And instead of Discharge

You Earth Power the Lunala to break Shadow Shield

Then nuke it with Electro Drift

[icy meteor]

Fake out is a problem

Tera ghost then?

On lando

[sleek laurel]

Tera Ghost could work yes

I don't like Tera Ground either

[icy meteor]

Mmm

[sleek laurel]

I was gonna tell you to go Poison otherwise

[sleek laurel]

But I like this call

[icy meteor]

Okie without parting shot I need more damage reduction

Ik I have screens

But grim is really awkward

[sleek laurel]

You're fine in that regard

Incin's Intimidate + Grimmsnarl is enough

[icy meteor]

I’ll learn to use grim eventuality

[sleek laurel]

Yea

[icy meteor]

@sleek laurel how does this look

https://pokepast.es/87f393965e712eb7

I forgot to add 4 EVs in an Urshifu stat

I’ll change that in a sec but yeah

[velvet cove]

my first vgc team

wanted to build around tinkaton

https://pokepast.es/216c660d6c148e1e

[broken shuttle]

i think terapagos is kind of out of place here

esp a passive set like CM

i would test calyrex-ice over pagos for the moment

also the kyo moveset and evs could use some work

would recommend this:

Kyogre @ Mystic Water
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 164 HP / 68 Def / 156 SpA / 4 SpD / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Water Spout
• Hydro Pump
• Thunder
• Protect

hits some good speed bunchmarks like outspeeding miraidon/koraidon at -1

[velvet cove]

pagos feels good into like

miraidon and calyrex-s

which im usually weak to

and counters opp weather mu

with its tera

is kinda the reasoning

[broken shuttle]

kind of

not into koraidon

you kind of just die into koraidon

[velvet cove]

that is true

[broken shuttle]

regardless

[velvet cove]

ill try the new kyogre set tho def

anything else?

is calyrex-ice just

probably it here

[broken shuttle]

pagos is probably fine to keep testing

if it feels lacking i'd test out leech seed ice rider

[velvet cove]

kk

[broken shuttle]

either way i'm also not the biggest fan of sash ursh

[velvet cove]

also ive been thinking like

tornadus doesnt use much

do much*

here

it feels like

like i already have follow me and fake out for kyogre support

ig terapagos does also benefit from tailwind

[velvet cove]

sash ursh has been doign p well for me

but if not should i just go band

[broken shuttle]

i think sash ursh is fine for now, if you swap to the calyrex-ice version definitely go life orb/splash plate/choice band

bc you want the slower bulkier ursh to take advantage of trick room

[velvet cove]

makes sense

[broken shuttle]

ftr

[velvet cove]

do u think tornadus shoudl be replaced tho

[velvet cove]

ill def run this if the intricate evs just make it better

[broken shuttle]

you can also consider opulse>hpump bc you have feint tink

[velvet cove]

yee

[broken shuttle]

i think you do kind of want tailwind either way tbh, you need good speed control with ogre

you can consider some other tailwind options like roaring moon or iron jugulis

[velvet cove]

fair

damn iron jugulis sounds good on this perhaps

could give it a try

is there any like

glaring weaknesses

or is the team p solid

[broken shuttle]

it does feel a little frail into miraidon but i think between cornerstone pagos kyo that's managable

checks out to me

[velvet cove]

awesome

[sick stag]

hey, if I'd like my team rated, do I post a pokepaste screenshot or a link?

https://pokepast.es/bf16c5e07b31f70e

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[broken shuttle]

pokepaste is great

i'll look it over in a minute or so

[sick stag]

thx 😁

oh whoops

Flamethrower is meant to be flare blitz on koraidon

[broken shuttle]

i don't think this is all that good, grafaiai tink and araq definitely do not fit here or rly contribute all that much to the team

i think starting with that core of wake/korai/calyrex is good

from there i'd go tornadus/incineroar/ogerpon-cornerstone

this gives you speed control from tornadus, overall support from incineroar, and follow me + sturdy on cornerstone

[sick stag]

grafaiai gives prankster encore and scary face which is pretty cool for me, araq for ground resist, webs and surprising offence, and tink gives great defensive typing with fake out

was my reasoning

[broken shuttle]

https://pokepast.es/29c8ab3674253825

[sick stag]

but yea incin is always an option, but personally I'm not a huge fan of tornadus

[broken shuttle]

incin and tornadus do that a lot better

& prankster encore is not worth using a bad mon like grafaiai for

[sick stag]

is grafaiai that bad?

[broken shuttle]

https://pokepast.es/1f26bccddcb90f06 this is the right one

[broken shuttle]

ya

[sick stag]

I also like the ghost immunity from the normal type

altho incin is nice as a CIR counter too

[broken shuttle]

basically graf does not have the bulk or utility to justify its slot on the team

prankster encore and scary face are kind of nice but there are mons that just do that better

like tornadus and/or whimsicott

[sick stag]

does whimsicott get scary face?

[broken shuttle]

it doesn't

but it gets tailwind which is realistically much better

[sick stag]

ya that's fair enough

is there a better Mon than araquanid for a good ground resist + offence + speed control?

[broken shuttle]

tornadus and whimsicott both do this

• they do smth similar to graf

[narrow dock]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025regibo3-2386887237

[inner basin]

https://pokepast.es/6dd2994c89d1008b

was building a sun team wanted a fairy type so i ended up turning it in a Weezing team.

This team do well against truck room and opposing calyrex - s

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[ornate cloak]

I'm ngl this team looks really weak to Ice-Rider/Miraidon screens

Also you'd rather use Koraidon over Groudon if you're not running any form of speed control imo, Koraidon is faster and offers more firepower

Also Geezing kinda holds the team back in some sense because Chi-Yu, and the two dragons can't use their abilities with Geezing on the field

Imho, replace Groudon with Koraidon, replace the two paradoxes with DozoGiri, alternatively if you want to use paradoxes, use AV Raging Bolt, and replace Wake with sash Flutter Mane, and give Calyrex-Shadow the lorb for extra damage

I'd prefer DozoGiri since that solves your trickroom problem and it's just more consistent

[inner basin]

https://pokepast.es/e5e617c79e0571b8

hows this? Add electroweb to raging bolt for speed control

[ornate cloak]

This seems fine, yeah

Probably go with Tera fairy tho

Or Tera Water

You should still ask some of the comp helpers for help since they have more experience and could help you improve the team even more

You could also try Brute Bonnet over Flutter Mane to help in trickroom a bit

[inner basin]

Ok thanks

[velvet cove]

the matchup into miraidon kinda sucks from what ive seen ye so like

if i run ice rider

whayt do i run instead of trick room

or is it useless without it

bc trick room kinda sucks here

[broken shuttle]

send me the team as it is rn?

[velvet cove]

https://pokepast.es/a77c81a3f33db64f

[broken shuttle]

hmm

okay i gotcha

[velvet cove]

terapagos and weirdly enough urshifu

feel like they arent doing much

[broken shuttle]

https://pokepast.es/95241da1840679a0

i would test this

slower offensive urshifu allows you to use it in tw and tr

bc ursh in rain is basically impossible to swap into

jug helps a lot into opposing pagos and csr

same with amoong

[lunar wedge]

What's the idea behind leech seed?

On cali i

[velvet cove]

kk

ill try it

[broken shuttle]

basically it allows you to stick on the field and outbulk stuff like zamazenta and lunala

[velvet cove]

do u like

lead with calyrex-ice + amoon

against like miraidon

or sum

act ok i see how this works

[broken shuttle]

a lot of the time you can do kyogre + amoonguss too

another option here is rillaboom>tinkaton

it gives you more lines into mirai teams

it’s pretty flexible tho

[velvet cove]

what is the thought behind jugulis over torn @broken shuttle

[broken shuttle]

@velvet cove

it’s more flexible basically

ghost resist good

you could also consider smth like light screen whimsicott there

[velvet cove]

i feel kinda shit

into calyrex-shadow

nvm ig

iu just gotta keep jugulis

for tat

[velvet cove]

k ive been doing some testing

team feels a lot better ye ty

[broken shuttle]

glad to hear it

[zealous steppe]

https://pokepast.es/4e05c12b939ed36c

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sleek laurel]

team looks mostly fine, but I would not run non-Max Speed Calyrex-S or Counter Ogerpon-C

[zealous steppe]

yeah i forgot to swap counter for follow me

[sleek laurel]

especially since Follow Me on Ogerpon is so valuable lol

yea

and Max Speed is almost always going to be more valuable than just 252 Modest, you can drop some SpA easily since you're running Life Orb

oh, and Protect over one of Encore or Nasty Plot

Protect > Play Rough on Zamazenta asw and Tera Ghost > Steel on Grimm and you should be fine
(also Choice Scarf Detect Urshifu is a choice, run U-Turn on that slot lol)

[zealous steppe]

forgot about the shifu 😭

[sleek laurel]

lmao dw

https://pokepast.es/5964fb77af4199f2

I made you a Paste due to some EV specifics

it's the same team, just a few move and EV changes

[zealous steppe]

tbh i hate running multiple protection moves on zama, only thing that walls zama hard is koraidon but i usually just tera and hit them with play rough

korai is annoying for this team

any reason for the specific def/spdef/hp ev's on csr

does it help it survive anything

[sleek laurel]

yea, Tera Fire Flame Charge from Koraidon

and Tera Water Surging Strikes from Scarf Urshifu almost all the time

[sleek laurel]

if you have Tera available

there's no universe Koraidon is beating Zamazenta-C 1v1 with Tera Fire on your side

Body Press also 2HKOs anyway

otherwise, Play Rough doesn't target anything in particular (Body Press is considerably stronger vs Miraidon and anything that's not x4 weak to Fairy) and Protect is immensely vauable

[zealous steppe]

are you sure losing that much spa on csr is okay?

[sleek laurel]

it's usually fine, but I can see why you'd be concerned

if it's worrisome, you can do like

[zealous steppe]

im not 1 shotting any of the aidon's, obviously i could have another pokemon to deal with that but at the same time

and like yeah i have psychic for koraidon ofc but at the same time

spread damage >

[sleek laurel]

you're not 1 shotting any of them from 100 with Astral anyway

[zealous steppe]

plus 1 protect will put me out of commision

specs mirai and orb korai usually run little to no defensive ev's

actualyl u right

[sleek laurel]

252 SpA Life Orb Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Koraidon: 121-142 (69.1 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[zealous steppe]

im just realizing now that my spa was already on max

LOL

[sleek laurel]

252 spa doesn't ohko either lol

[zealous steppe]

and its doing like nothing

ye

[sleek laurel]

but you can do like

the same bulk you had if you're uncomfy with 100 spa only

and then do 140 spa and 252 spe timid

252 spe timid is mandatory tho

[zealous steppe]

okok

[sleek laurel]

ogerpon doesn't need defensive investment because it's already got a built-in Focus Sash

in the form of Sturdy

and Urshifu-R needs 252 Speed to outspeed opposing Calyrex-S

Adamant is fine

Scarf Adamant Urshifu-R hits 223 Speed LOL

[zealous steppe]

o true

i just saw that

urshifu single could be scary

lul

[sleek laurel]

body press it

[zealous steppe]

outspeeds calyrex and touches him

[sleek laurel]

if it's scarfed

then you either wall it with zama or csr

if not then you body press it

👍

[zealous steppe]

true true

aight lemme try this out rq

[sleek laurel]

gl goat

[zealous steppe]

am i js dumb or does fakeout go before follow me..

i thought they were both +3 priority being decided by whichever pokemon is faster

i regret not having play rough

[ripe turret]

redirection is only +2 I think

there's a nice chart on bulbapedia that has the priority brackets

[broken shuttle]

correct

fake out is +3

[short halo]

https://pokepast.es/8822e9a70cfaac63

obviously not fully made by me at all, just a slight variance of some popular choices with stuff I like more personally.. want to know if I should just stick with the more common lunala tr with whimmsicott tailwind or if this variation could work

[short halo]

ive had some success on showdown, and taken trick room off of caly ice in place of swords dance and just dont play it much unless im fighting trick room

[dull siren]

hi

[gentle lagoon]

i'm looking to build a koraidon team and i think i have most of it worked out but i can't decide on a second restricted to bring

what pairs well with it

[ripe turret]

csr, and I think I’ve seen groudon/lunala too

[broken shuttle]

here are a few examples, all of which are either partnered w. calyrex-s or lunala:
https://pokepast.es/f924c71c048c3b0c
https://pokepast.es/e06bd4843d7f4016
https://pokepast.es/bd23870a138462bc
https://pokepast.es/9796ba222d6dc7d4
https://pokepast.es/56aaecb44f44c6b1

[short halo]

did i not follow the rules or smth

do i need to like redo my pokepaste or smth like that

[ripe turret]

your paste is fine

I'll get to it in like half an hour or so

[short halo]

youre good, no rush just wanted to make sure i was set

appreciate it

[jovial creek]

this just looks like a miraidon zamazenta team

with a cir over zama

[ripe turret]

um ok well I'll give you some set suggestions ig

[short halo]

i didnt really go crazy off whats already established, i just like caly better than zama and i love volcorona and tornadous so im trying to make it work, but i think i def wanna build a team around miraidon calyice

[jovial creek]

its too all over the place

I think

[short halo]

open to any suggestions though

[jovial creek]

mirai cir volc is good

mirai volc tailwind is good

not really together though

[short halo]

id be happy with a mirai cir volc core and branching out from there

3 of my favorite pokemon

yeah it feels a little awkward at times bc of what you just said

[jovial creek]

then I'd go for like

grimmsnarl

+2

[short halo]

ive used grimmsnarl a lot

[ripe turret]

ok looks like I'm probably not needed here lol

[jovial creek]

I think most people do iron hands and then a choice slot

[short halo]

i dont love him but ik hes good and i like prankster

no no youre needed lol

im just chatting and taking in as much info as i can

[ripe turret]

lol I think bigfoot got it

[jovial creek]

I don't have a problem with you helping too

[short halo]

:/ okkay man lol sounds good

[jovial creek]

as long as its good advice yknow

[short halo]

so like mirai cir volc grimm sounds like a good start to me

[jovial creek]

yeah

[short halo]

for the last two slots i think rapid strike urshifu would be cool and id love tornadous or landerous but ik incin is too good and fake out in general so itd be better to have iron hands or incin ig

when you say choice slot i could mess around with like a chi yu or choice band urshi or smth with iron hands/incin maybe?

[jovial creek]

there is a team that uses lando and cir mirai but idk if it has volcarona

oh I meant choice as in like

its up to you

[short halo]

oooh

okay

[jovial creek]

https://pokepast.es/1793e9682cfdeb6d

[short halo]

so basically mirai cir volc grimm, with iron hands or incin + choice?

[jovial creek]

yeah

[short halo]

whats the benefit of having iron hands or incin over the other?

[jovial creek]

incin has intimidate

and is incin

iron hands does crazy damage with etterain

[short halo]

incin is just better but iron hands can do damage and stay alive more

[jovial creek]

and adds more depth to your trick room mode

[short halo]

okay i got you

i dont love trick room too much its what ive used the most. in a perfect world id have mirai cir volc, with a tailwind setter and a mon thats good in trick room but doesnt have to run it, hince swords dance on calyice but if you tell me thats dumb ill take the advice

trick room is just better than tailwind in most cases it just feels nice to have both but im bein greedy

thats my opinion i could be totally off

hmm i do like the iron hands though bc im tired of running incin tbh

maybe i could do iron hands with a chien pao or one of those guys

i just had a thought of tera fire iron hands with fire punch or smth for fairy resistence and coverage

[jovial creek]

trick room calyrex-I is just too strong

its dumb to run something else

having the speed control vs opposing miraidon and csr is so good

[short halo]

ye youre right... :(

i just want to be different but id rather win with a good team than lose and wish i had tr. especially since im so new to team building and vgc

what are common items for iron hands? life orb or AV or smth?

i can look all that up, im gonna try out mirai, cir, volc, grimm, iron hands and chien-pao

actually chien pao slot is not set in stone i gotta do some thinking

[ornate cloak]

AV/Clamulet

[ornate cloak]

Chien-Pao could be WaterShifu/FirePon/RockPon

Or some other trickroom attacker to combo with cir

[short halo]

rn ive got life orb lando, just bc i like himbut that slot is still up for change

yeah thats a good idea

hmm

[ornate cloak]

Honestly you could try scarf Lando for fast pivots

That's one option

But I wouldn't recommend it that much

[short halo]

yeah

i just like lando a lot

[ornate cloak]

Like it's usable but it's kinda clunky if that's the right way to put it

[short halo]

ideally id have mirai, cir, volc, and lando/torn/thunderous on a team without incin but its hard

no i get it

itll be awkward

[ornate cloak]

Ursaluna can be one option

For trickroom

[short halo]

i do like ursaluna

[ornate cloak]

Normal/Ground coverage in this regulation is really strong

[short halo]

ive used ursaluna tr a lot

mainly used the common lunala team with that

trying to get away bc i like cir so much

https://pokepast.es/86e0b4b7ba9c8924

[sleek laurel]

AV nearly all the time

[ornate cloak]

The only problem with Ursaluna is that you don't have any Wide Guard users so you can't button mash headlong rush which kinda sucks

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sleek laurel]

Claumlet if SD, but that was mostly a Reg G thing

[short halo]

this is what ive got rn with the help of the others

i didnt mean for that to ping eeryone shit my b

[sleek laurel]

Dw

The bot doesnt recognize repastes LOL

[short halo]

sick lol

[sleek laurel]

Anyway

Team looks fine, what is the Landorus EV spread for?

[short halo]

im gonna make adjustments to evs as i go

but currently theyve all got the most common spreads

[sleek laurel]

I think you mixed up

SpD and Spe

On the Landorus

[ornate cloak]

@sleek laurel could Ursaluna fit as a trickroom option?

Just curious

[short halo]

i mightve yeah

ii fixed it

[sleek laurel]

Ursaluna is a great TR option but its not used much in Mirai CIR

Its viable

But Hands is better in these compositions

[ornate cloak]

I'd imagine because no wguard

[short halo]

it just sucks leaving urshifu/incin behind and no wide guard

so many choices

[ornate cloak]

But yh makes sense

[short halo]

im gonna have to give a little up to use the core i want

[sleek laurel]

One thing I personally like in Landorus and 140 Spe and 244 HP

140 Spe outspeeds Paralyzed Booster Speed Valiant, which is far from the most popular mon atm but you run into it every now and then

And like

You lose a MASSIVE 1 HP 😱

[short halo]

[sleek laurel]

All memes aside team looks fine

Maybe check some updated EV spreads

[short halo]

got those from pikalytics today

[ornate cloak]

1 hp is still 1 hp

[sleek laurel]

But theres nothing actually wrong with it

[short halo]

but i can deep dive more in to them and change them for what fits for this specific team

[sleek laurel]

Usually Leech Seed Calyrex-I runs more SpD

Thats the only one

[short halo]

my fear of incin and csr wont go away

okay lemme look at it

[sleek laurel]

I am also big on another Iron Hands spread but that might be bias LOL

[sleek laurel]

252 HP
36+ Atk
4 Def
196 SpD
20 Spe

[short halo]

hahah shoot

[sleek laurel]

Smogcord has it as 20 Def 4 Spe

But that's

[short halo]

makes sens completely

[sleek laurel]

Iirc misrepresented

I am 99% sure Kelsch used 4 Def 20 Spe

[ornate cloak]

Just throw your Iron Hands at it

[sleek laurel]

Could be wrong tho and then I'll look dumb

But amog

[ornate cloak]

In trickroom it should be more than capable of dealing w Incineroar + Csr especially w something like cir beside it

[short halo]

careful nature with that probs?

[sleek laurel]

Nah

[short halo]

thanks for the advice

[sleek laurel]

Adamant is needed to OHKO Miraidon

[short halo]

makes me feel better

[sleek laurel]

36 Adamant OHKOs Miraidon with Glacial Lance

[short halo]

oh sick okay

[ornate cloak]

It's all fun and games still Incineroar burns both your mons tho so uh, just keep that in mind (speaking from experience)

[short halo]

once i get more playtime ill know what to look for in type matchups and stuff

[sleek laurel]

Incineroar however

[short halo]

and damage calcs

[sleek laurel]

Cannot deal with the combination of Miraidon and Iron Hands

Whether in or outside of TR

And it can't deal with Miraidon period, but in TR it can annoy it

[short halo]

does leeech seed cir ever run clamulet?

[sleek laurel]

No

Lefties

[broken shuttle]

no

[short halo]

gothca

[sleek laurel]

Hello geph

[broken shuttle]

it can get away with never melt ice asw

[sleek laurel]

Oh yea that too

[broken shuttle]

but mostly lefties

[ornate cloak]

Wb cloak

[sleek laurel]

Not worth it

[ornate cloak]

Fair

[sleek laurel]

Fake Out is not

The biggest threat to it

[ornate cloak]

True

[short halo]

never melt ice seems redundant or useless off the top of my head for a bulky leech seeder meant to threaten OHKO on mirai. just first thought

does that change some important damage calcs?

could help with intimidate ig

[sleek laurel]

It probably has some because it has seen use

And admittedly I agree in theory

Lefties is better in general tho

[ornate cloak]

Leech seed cir wants to stay on the field for as long as possible, so lefties is generally going to be better

[sleek laurel]

Maybe NMI threatens and OHKO on bulkier Mirai and that feels like the reason

[short halo]

well either way im happy with the mons i have and now i get to go try it out and change stuff around with spreads and items as i go and see where i get

[sleek laurel]

But liiiiike

If its bulkier then its slower

So kill it with your own Mirai LOL

[short halo]

yeahhhh LOl

[sleek laurel]

Yea gl

[short halo]

good point

[ornate cloak]

Ye just win the Miraidon mirror atp

[short halo]

ive got choice specs tera fairy max speed mirai rn

modest

[sleek laurel]

I like this set the most too yea

[ornate cloak]

Probably should look at the smogon Dex for some help with the EVs and movesets, can be very helpful for beginners, and you'll get a general idea of how every Pokemon works

[sleek laurel]

Modest and Timid are both fine

[short halo]

sweet

will do

[sleek laurel]

Altho without Farigiraf

I usually like Timid more

[short halo]

im just happy that the mons are solid

[ornate cloak]

Gl man

[sleek laurel]

Because one of the greatest niches of Modest

[short halo]

i did mess around with fargiraf a little

[sleek laurel]

Is OHKOing Rillaboom with Helping Hand Draco Meteor

[short halo]

not used him much but i like the idea of it

[sleek laurel]

Even without Hadron

[short halo]

oh thats important

[ornate cloak]

The fact that it can do that is so wrong 😭

[sleek laurel]

Which makes it so you win the Terrain war afterwards

But

Without Farig

[short halo]

could free up some use for other mons ive got and wouldnt be expected

[sleek laurel]

Yea

You can use Farig here toi

Too