VGC Rates

[jovial creek]

there is

[flat oyster]

also double atk restricted really makes it easy for them to counter you

[jovial creek]

that isn't really an issue

[flat oyster]

I guess defense base stats are not commonly higher than spd on most restricted at the top

where is the sunny day wise grand master

for I cannot see

[jovial creek]

I think you could go protect over sunny day on whims

[flat oyster]

nvm

I see

I really think he slots groudon on that team

[jovial creek]

and make it sash

groudon doesn't fit

[flat oyster]

turn two sunny day is tough is it not?

after tailwind

[jovial creek]

you'd have to change the whole team

[flat oyster]

yeah

I would myself

[lavish nexus]

I don't like its signature being 85% accurate, and it doesn't fit the team composition

[flat oyster]

This is true but how will you deal with the hits or trick rooms from turn 1 if you don't have sunny day up.

I'm not huge into poke math but you should do the showdown calc

determine if you can ko anyone without sunny day

and who you cannot

[jovial creek]

korai sets sun

whats the issue

and into tr you probably use korai next to wide guard zama

[lavish nexus]

Koraidon is the main sun setter, whims has sunny day incase of rain teams

[flat oyster]

ah you're right with tht

yeah you're set just tailwind watch out for cal

[jovial creek]

into rain teams I think you use zama and raging bolt

[flat oyster]

Astelea do you want to battle on showdown?

test out your comp?

[lavish nexus]

If you're still good then sure

Ign the same as discord

[flat oyster]

Awesome!

ill add

That team runs zamzenta it is probably what I struggle greatest against

[unborn hull]

Doesnt have stab tho, so sludge bomb is more effective

[brittle gate]

hmm. well, i haven't thought about that

i suppose it's helpful to have that so that i don't always have to have incin, if that's what you're getting at

so everything else is helpful in some way or another?

[jovial creek]

yeah

[brittle gate]

huh.

could there be anything else that could be changed? i just put the other three in without any thoughts or consideration

[jovial creek]

it looks pretty similar to the pagos scream tail teams i used

[brittle gate]

icic

would there be any other options instead of scream tail?

also could i see your team that you mentioned so i can see exactly what i would wanna run

@jovial creek

sorry for the ping, just didn't know if you've seen these messages

[jovial creek]

https://pokepast.es/05ff31ccd08eb39b

change indeedee

[brittle gate]

that would be just replacing it with urshifu?

[jovial creek]

yes

[sleek laurel]

https://pokepast.es/a4b95742a62289c5

this is so standard it almost feels bad to send for rating but i need to make sure I got tera types and some sets right

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jovial creek]

why lefties fish

I feel like mystic water>

[sleek laurel]

misinput

it was like cloned from a diff team and i forgot to change the item

[sleek laurel]

anything else? mostly asking for the zac-c set and rapidshifu set

incin ev spread was given to me by a friend btw i gotta ask her what exactly does it do

[jovial creek]

what does ursh spread do

[sleek laurel]

also wondering if hydro pump on kyo isn't better

[sleek laurel]

live grassy glide

[jovial creek]

zacian looks fine

I'd run sd but idk thats just me

[untold canopy]

What’s the regulation set

[jovial creek]

I

[sleek laurel]

which is good because it has zero way around glide

[untold canopy]

Ok thank you, and is it changing on the 1st?

[jovial creek]

team should be fine

[jovial creek]

actually its G rn on cart

[sleek laurel]

oh and it lives opposing kyogre spout

[jovial creek]

but it will be I on May 1

[sleek laurel]

bet ty

[untold canopy]

Ok thank you

[broken shuttle]

i feel like this just gets cooked by CSR

[sleek laurel]

yea

[broken shuttle]

like

[jovial creek]

there is a whole kyogre

[broken shuttle]

looking at LO csr + bolt and then back at the team

[jovial creek]

then you just drago

[broken shuttle]

kyogre does not beat csr fym

[jovial creek]

its fat as hell

[untold canopy]

2 restricted are allowed for set I is what I’m seeing is that true

[sleek laurel]

also incineroar like

helps a lot vs csr no?

[jovial creek]

yep

it helps

@broken shuttle

how does

[untold canopy]

Alright thank you again! Do I send a team here when I form it to get it rated?

[jovial creek]

bolt csr

handle

[jovial creek]

yep again!

[sleek laurel]

ok i'm glad this was actually worth the rater ping

but

[jovial creek]

kyogre torn tera grass water spout

[sleek laurel]

i don't know how

yea

[jovial creek]

other than getting a 50/50 right

[broken shuttle]

its best pal zamazenta

[sleek laurel]

tera grass kyogre + tailwind + incin seems like somewhat good vs csr-

[broken shuttle]

or sub

[jovial creek]

thats too many mons lil bro

[sleek laurel]

ok yea that's

[broken shuttle]

or tera water

[jovial creek]

yeah this mf is just making stuff up

[sleek laurel]

i love this interaction

anyway

[broken shuttle]

twater caly is so real fym

[sleek laurel]

hold up let me

calc something

[jovial creek]

me when I lie

alternatively that gets cooked by drago

[sleek laurel]

i think the real issue here is like

csr in tailwind

[untold canopy]

Should I use reshiram or zekrom? I wanna use miraidon to set up the electric terrain for Iron Valiant

[broken shuttle]

drago thinks he's on the team

[jovial creek]

I think you go whims over torn maybe

[sleek laurel]

there IS a drago on the team

[sleek laurel]

me?

[jovial creek]

yeah

[sleek laurel]

doesn't that make the sun mu a little complicated

[broken shuttle]

this ain't DOU lil bro drago is a fraud

[sleek laurel]

what would I replace drago with anyway

[jovial creek]

idk what to say other than you are wrong

[sleek laurel]

LMAO...

[broken shuttle]

i am exaggerating for fun

but i do hate drago

[sleek laurel]

what would I replace it with anyway?

if i end up changing it

[broken shuttle]

ok i'll be serious now

i think

tb ground zacian?

is that rly necessary here

[sleek laurel]

tb ground zacian was specifically the reason I sent the team for rating

[jovial creek]

should've just said that bro

[sleek laurel]

well more than that but

point being

[broken shuttle]

yeah then we wouldn't have to waste time yapping abt how bad drago is

[sleek laurel]

I was extremely uncertain about

[jovial creek]

beating up zama would be nice

[sleek laurel]

LMAO

anyway

[jovial creek]

and miraidon kinda

[sleek laurel]

3rd move and

tera type

also like

[broken shuttle]

yeah i'm just not sure u need to

i like it as Bo1 tech

[sleek laurel]

"tera types and some sets"

[broken shuttle]

but it feels excessive if you're playing bo3

just hit pr

[sleek laurel]

and then "zac-c and rapidshifu set"

but fair

what would i run

sacred sword?

[broken shuttle]

and go stellar w. sacred if ur worried abt zama

[sleek laurel]

zama is definitely worryinng

[jovial creek]

does that even kill

[untold canopy]

Is Ogerpon not restricted?

[broken shuttle]

miraidon?

yes

[sleek laurel]

+1 definitely kills miraidon

also like

it's stronger than tera blast

[jovial creek]

I meant tera fairy

LMAO

oops

[broken shuttle]

fym does it kill bro's a zacian

[sleek laurel]

then

you need stellar

and +1

but if you have both of these then yes

[broken shuttle]

u mean if the mirai tfairys?

idt so

but like

[sleek laurel]

yea

[broken shuttle]

tb ground wouldn't either

tb ground would be weaker than pr actually

[sleek laurel]

+1 108 Atk Tera Stellar Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 44 HP / 4 Def Tera Fairy Miraidon: 156-184 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

[sleek laurel]

and yea

it's mathematically weaker

[jovial creek]

yeah I am aware

but

I was thinking like

whats the upside

[broken shuttle]

u still take it on better defensively

[jovial creek]

to stellar sacred

[sleek laurel]

oh

[jovial creek]

I feel like youd rather have tera ground and hit zama harder

[sleek laurel]

outdamages on zama

because

sacred ignores

dauntless

the upside of tera ground is also

it basically does the same to zama

[jovial creek]

and you wall miraidon

[sleek laurel]

and it hits incin

and you wall mirai yea

the upside to sacred is obviously

you don't need to tera

[jovial creek]

tbf

what else

is clicking tera

[sleek laurel]

kyogre

[jovial creek]

if not to get 2 kos

[sleek laurel]

those are the main two

ig i might test both tbh

[broken shuttle]

urshifu

[south token]

https://pokepast.es/9ccd64030f9c8284 thoughts?

[sleek laurel]

oh yea ursh to knock caly too ig

outside of rain

[jovial creek]

looks fine

[broken shuttle]

psychic>tect on farig
why is hands so fast?

[jovial creek]

psychic move>foul play I think

fast hands is sheist wdym

[broken shuttle]

no like

for what purpose

i can get why you would

im curious

not saying it's bad

[sleek laurel]

same yea

not hating on it but wondering what it's for

[broken shuttle]

oh also low kick>volt switch on hands

u could do it over dp too ig

[sleek laurel]

yea do that

[south token]

just for outspeeding some ppl like caly ice and using volt switch or smth like that

[jovial creek]

you would want to underspeed

so that

[broken shuttle]

yeah

[jovial creek]

your fat iron hands

takes the hit

and then something else switches in

[sleek laurel]

but then

why is fast hands sheist

[south token]

makes sense

ty

[sleek laurel]

i'm lost

[broken shuttle]

sheist

[jovial creek]

because if it has a good reason then ik that reason is

gonna be cooking

[broken shuttle]

yeah

[sleek laurel]

lmao

[broken shuttle]

fast hands can work

[sleek laurel]

oh fair

[broken shuttle]

u just have to have a good reason for it

o

missed smth

[broken shuttle]

go max/max on whims

[south token]

in which situation?

[broken shuttle]

u don't need bulk if you're going sash

[sleek laurel]

oh yea true

welp thanks chat

[south token]

max spe and spa?

[sleek laurel]

i'ma go play chess w my dad and then try out the team fr

[broken shuttle]

yes

[south token]

so should i change the speed evs in iron hands?

[broken shuttle]

for now yeah

lemme send a spread

[broken shuttle]

Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 100 HP / 156 Atk / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

• Drain Punch
• Low Kick
• Wild Charge
• Fake Out

[south token]

why low kick?

[untold canopy]

How do send my team

[jovial creek]

lots of the restricted pokemon are heavy

so its like a free 120 bp stab move

[south token]

select upload to pokepaste

[untold canopy]

What are yall using if I may ask?

[south token]

pokemon showdown

[broken shuttle]

you need low kick to hit mons like zamazenta/miraidon/zacian/calyrex-ice harder

[south token]

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/

[untold canopy]

Oh thank you!

[broken shuttle]

without it you can miss a lot of damage into them

esp notable for CIR

[south token]

i havent seen any zamazenta rn ngl

but for caly ice is good

[broken shuttle]

what cursed segment of ladder are you on

[south token]

idk

i just play for fun

and cuz

[broken shuttle]

but yeah in seriousness zama is like

fairly common

even if u don't see it all that often

[south token]

ok

ty pal

[broken shuttle]

yw

[untold canopy]

https://pokepast.es/1cc6e2cf1e33db7a

Idk who to add as my second restricted

[jovial creek]

that team doesn't look very good

if you are new to vgc I'd recommend taking a team that is proven to work

[unborn hull]

Uh what? Ok firstly immeediately replace that iron moth, Iron Valiant is extremely niche but i mean its usable, do something like spirit break, wide guard, encore, and coaching, also give it booster energy. Annihilape with choice scarf and final gambit would be better but if you dont want to kamikze him, I guess its fine. Also choice specs miraidon is far better than electric seed, i'd reccomend using electro drift, volt switch, draco meteor, and discharge/dazzling gleam (depends if youre going electric tera or fairy tera) also it needs more bulk, as i assume youre new use Luca Ceribellis ev spreas of miraidon, if you dont like stealing just try to add a bjt more bulk ok? Also replace cotton guard for encore and 2nd restricted i'd say calyrex-ice is a extremely good choice as it can deal with rillaboom and have a physical attacking restricted.

[untold canopy]

Ok thank you so much for the help! Sorry for the eye sore lmao

[untold canopy]

I just wanted to use iron valiant so that’s why he’s there

[unborn hull]

The team that got 2nd at 2024 world championships used ironvaliant

[untold canopy]

Oh that’s cool! I like iron valiant so it’s why I wanna use it

[unborn hull]

Heres the team (you'd have to ev it tho you can use smogon)
Landorus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Ghost

• Earth Power
• Sandsear Storm
• Sludge Bomb
• U-turn

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unseen Fist
Tera Type: Water

• Surging Strikes
• Close Combat
• Aqua Jet
• Detect

Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost

• Spirit Break
• Wide Guard
• Encore
• Coaching

Pelipper @ Life Orb
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Grass

• Weather Ball
• Hurricane
• Helping Hand
• Wide Guard

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fire

• Spore
• Pollen Puff
• Rage Powder
• Clear Smog

Calyrex-Ice @ Clear Amulet
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Tera Type: Grass

• Glacial Lance
• High Horsepower
• Trick Room
• Protect

[jovial creek]

@broken shuttle do you know any ival teams

I'd think like

groudon miraidon right

[untold canopy]

Would teal mask ogerpon be a decent option to replace iron moth?

Or any of the masks really

It’s a cool pokemon

[unborn hull]

I mean its the worst out of the 4 masks but its still ogerpon, i'd reccomend iron hands you can so something like lead whimsicott miraidon volt switch miraidon into iron hands to get the attaxk boost dus tk the terrain

Heartflame is generally regarded as the best mask

[untold canopy]

I’ll test both of those out to see what I like more! Thank you so much again 🙏🙏

[unborn hull]

Your welcome

[untold canopy]

Should I make ogerpon strong and fast or bulky and strong

[broken shuttle]

no

but i guess u could w. gdon mirai

it’s a cute idea

[unborn hull]

Srry i logged off after my last message, well it depends on the mask so heres an in general for each mask

Teal: fast and offensive as it wont last long anyways (worst of the 4)
Cornerstone: same as teal it also has sturdy making bulk even more obsolete (2 or 3 depending on how you think)
Wellspring: bulky and speedy as its also the best user of follow me ( 2 or 3)
Heartflame: bulky and speedy id reccomend more physical bulk (1 the best)

Example EVs
Teal: 44 HP / 236 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
Cornerstone: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Wellspring: 212 HP / 84 Atk / 12 Def / 12 SpD / 188 Spe
HeartFlame: 188 HP / 76 Atk / 52 Def / 4 SpD / 188 Spe

[untold canopy]

Alright, thank you once again. I’m having a lil trouble cause I’m thinking about how my ogerpon is gonna swap forms to be decent with all forms 😭

[unborn hull]

Your welcome

[untold canopy]

https://pokepast.es/7a1735409f9afc1a

Is this better? I didnt do to much with Ogerpons evs because I like to be able to swap forms

[unborn hull]

1. Put trickroom on ice rider
2. Tera grass cie rider since if you trick room and amoonguss switches in itll put your team to sleep so terag grass is good fo become immune to spore
3. Iron valiant isnt here for atk really but a couple of evs is apprecjated for soirit break like just 4 on atk
4. Tera ghost iron valiant to avoid fake out
5. That whimsicott spread is just, no. Judging of what youre going with whimsicott do almost max speed something around 160 with sp def and the rest on speed.
6. Tera grass sucks on whimsicott its already immune to spore tera dark to avoid opposing pranskter mons like a taunt from tornadus is better
7. Please PLEASE follow me on ogerpon (i wont criticize furthermore on ogerpon since you swap masks)
8. If youre going eigh a 252/252/4 ev spread of miraidon, you shouldnt but since i think youre new and cant do complex evs please do 252 HP over def

Also still reccomend choice scarf final gambit annihilape but if you dont want to its still ok

Also shadow claw over rage fist

[untold canopy]

Might I ask why trickroom on ice rider?

Everything else I get

[unborn hull]

Just look at its speed stat

[untold canopy]

Yea I see it, but I typically use tailwind with whimsicott

[unborn hull]

100 spe with power creep most things outspeed

[untold canopy]

Alright I understand, thank you!

[unborn hull]

Your welcome ima log off now

[untold canopy]

Alright!

[unborn hull]

God i just realized on suggestion 5 i accidentally putted moms instead of mons i didnt mean that i edited it

[broken shuttle]

hi, this team has some very questionable ev choices and a lot of questionable sets

i went in and retooled it a lot

https://pokepast.es/488e6250347188c6

this should work better

[untold canopy]

Oh thank you! Thing with the ev's though is I have no clue how to do it without maxing them out 😭

[broken shuttle]

if you go to the teambuilder there's a link to the smogon analysis for ev spreads

let me show u

[untold canopy]

Also something else is how do I plan teams out for battle? Like when Im in battle how do I know how to choose. Its a completely different issue that I needa learn

[untold canopy]

Alright!

[broken shuttle]

once you click on that look for VGC regulation G or regulation I

there should be a list of formats

and you can find spreads from there

[untold canopy]

Oh, thats not the main issue I have, though it is a big one. I mean in S/V

[unborn hull]

Oh also dont just do the guessed spread as often the spread directly in the website is better

[untold canopy]

Wdym?

[unborn hull]

It says guessed spread at the top like in the image 252 hp 4 atk 252 def but thats not good, if you directly go to the smogon website it shows a better sprewd

[broken shuttle]

if you click on the smogon analysis button you can find recommended spreads for different mons

[untold canopy]

Oh I didnt know that thank you so much!!

[random wagon]

use iron ball min speed miraidon if true chad

[broken shuttle]

[tribal void]

could run bulky maybe

i like 252 hp mirai on calyI mirai

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/900e2be8df9abe9e
How's this team

[sleek laurel]

I like the 20 Speed Miraidon on like

Mirai CIR or Mirai Lunala

Or generally Mirai teams with extremely solid Speed control

[tribal void]

i do gotta say though

181 is very nice

[sleek laurel]

But if you’re not running massive Speed control then

Yea

[tribal void]

since you don't have to bring whims into zama

[sleek laurel]

For mega Speed control teams I run like

252 HP 20 Speed 4/4 228 SpA Modest

If else just Luca spread

Also this is probably worth mentioning

The Luca spread on Smogdex is missing 8 SpDef EVs

And yes, it only has 500 EVs total

Y’all have a Smogdex spread with 500 EVs.

[broken shuttle]

i think 181 is almost required

[broken shuttle]

it should be fixed soon

[random wagon]

this team looks pretty solid but i think you would benefit more from Trick Room on Lunala over Tailwind, especially since the majority of your pieces are on the slower side of the meta.

since you arent running Wide Guard on Lunala, Pelipper can drop Tailwind for it. I highly recommend having Wide Guard somewhere, whether on Pelipper or on Lunala (dropping Moonblast for it), since both of your restricted Pokemon are weak to Astral Barrage.

Your Urshifu-R EVs are a bit off, move either 6 EVs from HP to Speed or 2 EVs from Speed to HP to optimize your EVs.

To be honest, Archaludon isn’t the greatest as of right now, especially with this chaotically high power level and things like Koraidon and Zamazenta-C being very popular. Amoonguss fits this team nicely over Archaludon, pressuring Zamazenta-C and others with Spore. You can try dropping Pollen Puff or Protect for Sludge Bomb if you feel you lack damage.

Amoonguss set would be something like this: Rocky Helmet, Tera Water/Dark, Spore, Rage Powder, Pollen Puff/Sludge Bomb, Protect/Sludge Bomb, 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD with either a Relaxed or Sassy nature, 0 IVs in attack and in speed.

Since, with these changes, you will be running TR, you can consider dropping Taunt on Urshifu-R for Aqua Jet, as long as you feel comfortable in front of Incineroar’s Will-O-Wisps/Parting Shots and opposing Wide Guard.

[narrow dock]

Should I give incin assault vest

[random wagon]

no

[narrow dock]

Ok

https://pokepast.es/bfe17d2187cd4afb
How's this

[broken shuttle]

i think you should go wide guard over moonblast here

on lunala

having a way to block astral barrage is rly good here

i also don't think u rly need tailwind on peli here i'd go with protect

i think i'd also test choice-scarf urshifu but if mystic water has been working then that's fine

just feels like the team desperately needs some speed so it can kind of function out of TR

i would maybe consider tera normal on calyrex or lunala so tht you can stonewall csr but that's a suggestion, worth testing at least

[narrow dock]

I'm trying to make the team tail room

[broken shuttle]

then you need a more consistent tailwind setter

[broken shuttle]

i would test roaring moon over pelipper then

if you want tailroom i'd also run

this calyrex spread

Calyrex-Ice @ Clear Amulet
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Atk / 4 Def / 20 SpD / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Glacial Lance
• High Horsepower
• Protect
• Trick Room

amoonguss + incin might be a touch too slow to be your last two mons but if they work that's cool

honestly you could go with like an assault vest adamant incin here

i would suggest going faster on it though

make it 91 speed incin so you can will-o-wisp zamazenta-c in tailwind

[gloomy birch]

no one is going to run max speed zama right?

[tribal void]

max speed impish is pretty common iirc

unless you mean jolly

[sleek laurel]

What does it hit anyway

It’s like Oger and Zama right?

[broken shuttle]

180 is zama

[broken shuttle]

plenty run max impish

[tall trail]

okay so I made a new team and honestly I'm very proud of it. I mostly just followed what was popular team members but it worked out ironically for me

https://pokepast.es/7843a7fce648555d

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tall trail]

I just want to see if there's any problems that I may have missed

[broken shuttle]

bolt is pretty redundant here since you have miraidon

i would go ogerpon-c over bolt for now there could be smth else that works there ogerpon just looks like it fits

go tera dark on whims, ghost on chi-yu, and either water or dark on caly

i would also suggest psychic caly but if you find that u need psyshock for cm pagos then that's fine here

since miraidon should beat zama well enough

you might consider specs miraidon here

idm AV tho

[tall trail]

AV?

[broken shuttle]

assault vest

on miraidon

[tall trail]

oh

[vivid shard]

So I wanna play a sweeper miraidon team so like tera electric, choice specs, tailwind. But I'm not sure what my other restricted should be, any ideas?

[broken shuttle]

i would suggest either calyrex-shadow or miraidon

[vivid shard]

Okay thanks i decided to go with Calyrex shadow

[broken shuttle]

oops

[unborn hull]

Calyrex-ice to counter rillaboom, that way you also have a physical and special attacker

[broken shuttle]

i meant kyogre there

not miraidon again

[broken shuttle]

calyrex-ice does not function the greatest under tailwind

if you want tailwind hyper offense with miraidon it's better to have something that can quickly force damage like calyrex-s

[unborn hull]

Tailwind lasts for 4 turns often whimsicott is already fsinted by then.

[broken shuttle]

tailwind lasts for 4 and it doesn't matter

[unborn hull]

And i personally use calyrsx kce more late-game so tailwind often already ran out

[vivid shard]

I do have iron treads for hazards and for physical dmg/kinda tanking

[broken shuttle]

if you'd like you can send your team to be reviewed here

[vivid shard]

Alr

How do i go about that

https://pokepast.es/8efa3e5d704135c0

Found it

[unborn hull]

If youre going with tera fairy calyrex-s pls use draining kiss

Also no physic terrain setter so expanding force isnt that good

[vivid shard]

Should i swap iron treads for a setter

[unborn hull]

Also train whimsicott on spdef over def

[vivid shard]

Oke

[unborn hull]

You have miraidon so putting another setter wouldn't be a smart move

It'd be better if you replaced exoanding force for draining kiss and iron treads for iron hands

Also max spe calyrex-S is much better, i wont judge evs anymore as judging off the evs you dont know how to make complex evs (not trying to be rude)

[south token]

change iron treds for indedee m or f

[unborn hull]

He has miraidon tho, theyd be cancelling out their terrains

[south token]

or why ur using expanding force caly s?

[south token]

so whats the purpose of expanding force?

[vivid shard]

I was using expanding force for coverage but i realized draining kiss has same coverage

[unborn hull]

If you want a psychic stab psyschock works but since youre tera fairy drsining kiss is better

[vivid shard]

Oke

And do i just keep iron treads?

[unborn hull]

I'd like iron hands better

[south token]

why u turn in ogerpon?

i preffer wood hammer

with stab ofc

[unborn hull]

Better bulk with assault vest and more atk

[onyx bear]

What normally goes into making vgc teams? I've been using sample teams, but I'd like to understand how to make my own teams

[south token]

depends

what reg are u playing or u want to play?

[unborn hull]

https://www.vgcguide.com/

[onyx bear]

Thank youuuu

[vivid shard]

Doesn't it overlap with urshifu

[unborn hull]

Depending on the situation you'd bring either iron ahnds or urshifu to the fight

For example urshifu has a very good matchup to groudon, but iron hands has a juch better to kyogre

[south token]

farigiraf and groudon carries

[vivid shard]

Ok

So like this?

https://pokepast.es/98007ac125596bec

[unborn hull]

Tera bug water or grass is betger on iron hands, ima give you the evs the 2024 world champion used for his iron hands as its one of the pokemon that needs them the most:

EVs: 76 HP / 180 Atk / 12 Def / 236 SpD
Brave Nature

Drsin punch is very good, but you need electric stab and a bettr fighting move so wild charg eand low kick are needed, snd please PLEASE use fake out

[vivid shard]

I forgor he learn fake out

https://pokepast.es/602983dba09cc7c1

[broken shuttle]

do not use that calyrex spread

or that whims spread

Calyrex-Shadow @ Life Orb
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
Level: 50
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 140 HP / 4 Def / 100 SpA / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Astral Barrage
• Psychic
• Nasty Plot
• Protect

Whimsicott @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 236 HP / 164 SpD / 108 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Moonblast
• Tailwind
• Light Screen
• Encore

use these

[unborn hull]

Why is it running psychic? Wouldnt psyshock be better since although it does a bit less damage it can allow you to hit specially defensive pokemon like assault vest rillaboom, kyogre, terrastalized fluttermane, etc.

[lost phoenix]

psychic hits zamazenta

and its also stronger as a single target than barrage

[jovial creek]

it also does more to amoonguss imo

[jovial creek]

they are the same no?

120x.75

[lost phoenix]

oh yea

theyre the same mb

[unborn hull]

Ok fair point

But i'd prefer psyshock still because rillaboom is pain for his miraidon if the other player positions it right

[broken shuttle]

does more to most amoon

i think they're mostly physically defensive now

[jovial creek]

I meant iirc instead of imo but yeah

[broken shuttle]

ah ic

[vivid shard]

Thanks for the ideas, i will switch whimsicott tera type but i think the rest of my team suits what Im looking for, still thanks

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/bdfb6aa7f3f018e2
How's this team

[narrow dock]

Or should I replace incin with B-ursaluna

[ripe turret]

Incin works pretty well on that team, I would say keep it

replacing it with ursa-b makes your cir and zama matchups kinda bad

[narrow dock]

So this team doesn't need any changes

https://pokepast.es/30d2a126019cdbf7
https://pokepast.es/bdfb6aa7f3f018e2
So between these 2 which would u say is better

[jovial creek]

miraidon amoonguss is huge anti synergy

https://pokepast.es/9d71ec51f6c41076

fixed some sets up

last slot should probably be an ogerpon

[unborn hull]

https://pokepast.es/bc7abfa5169429ae

Ok i've been trying to find a 6th pokemon (and 5th but i settled on hitmontop will explain later) i've tried farigiraf and it felt extremely weak, raging bolt couldn't keep up with the power lvl, i hate fluttermane, incineroar didnt help much with hitmontop already on the team, rillaboom has anti-synergy with miraidon, amoonguss ALSO has anti-synergy with miraidon, and i refuse to use ogerpon since i dont want people to think i grabbed luca ceribellis team and replaced farigiraf with calyrex-ice, and i already have a fighting type aka iron hands and i dont really want two (hitmontop doesnt even have a fighting type move), i even tried super niche options like raichu or maushold

Also I chose hitmontop over incineroar since ive been struggling with calyrex-S astral barrage and hitmontop has wide guard, it also offers fake out and intimidate like incineroar, and has rain dance since ive been struggling vs koraidon, and it also has helping hand (like incineroar again). Its still in prototype im seeing if its bulky enough for eject button to worm or if i should focus sash it. I have tera ground to fight miraidon, i've also trained it to survive miraidon tera fairy dazzling gleam when terrastalized and survive a volt switch when non-terrastalized, also a glacial lance from calyrsx ice when non-terrastalized allowing me to counter.

Its a trickroom + tailwind team

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[broken shuttle]

i don't think hitmontop is very good there

it mostly just steps on hand's toes

and with eject button you'll get pivoted out before you can counter anyways

• counter is super unreliable

i would replace hitmontop with pelipper and add urshifu-r

[unborn hull]

I chose it for intimidate + fake out, even tho incineroar is definetely better by far, i really needed a wide guard and helpojg hsnds and pelliper has terrible stats + rain doesnt help th team its just there to counter koraidon

[broken shuttle]

i mean

hitmontop also has terrible stats

[unborn hull]

Thats outdated i changed counter for helping hand

[broken shuttle]

then it's passive asf

you already have an iron hands

top is just redundant here

you don't even particularly need intimidate on this team, a lot of the times you can just out offense the mons you would want to intimidate anyways

[unborn hull]

Hitmontop is just there in case i play calyrex or koraidon

[random wagon]

please dont use hitmontop

Its bad

[broken shuttle]

pelipper does literally exactly what top does in those matchups but better

and also means you can enable your own urshifu-r which is really good

[unborn hull]

I tried pelliper can the opponent immediately switched to urshifu-r and ounsihed my rain, thats why i gave the edge to hitmontop since i can choose when to put the rain

Example: once i played against a clyrex-s so i grabbed pelliper to wode guard and then urhsifu-r came and swept 2 of my mons

[unborn hull]

Ok fair point

[random wagon]

this has nothing to do with pelipper and is 100% a misplay on your side

[broken shuttle]

https://pokepast.es/53c54aaa46bb2777

[unborn hull]

I kind of needed the wide guard support or xalyrsx would sweep

[broken shuttle]

smth like that could work

[unborn hull]

Wouldnt 252 atk 252 spe 4 hp adamant with focus sash be better?

[broken shuttle]

ursh?

i mean you could

it's usable here

[unborn hull]

Also tera grass calyrex ice to counter amoonguss in tr

[broken shuttle]

i think scarf is better becasue you're able to actually take advantage of the rain and immediately OHKO csr without committing tera

[broken shuttle]

you don't need that

you have miraidon

electric terrain blocks spore

[unborn hull]

Oh yeah fair point

Ok ill try it out thx

[broken shuttle]

you could drop coaching for aqua jet or tect on peli for helping hand

also peli tera type could change

not suggestions specifically just moreso proposing options

[unborn hull]

Oh also why 252 sp def on iron hands, i felt with 160 evs + assault vest it was good enough

[broken shuttle]

since you have an assault vest and hands' special defense is so low you get more value out of investing into spd than HP

because hands' base hp is so high that investing in it gives diminishing returns

[unborn hull]

Hm ok thx

[broken shuttle]

EV math quirks basically

[lavish nexus]

Changed out zama for lunala because i didn't like having mostly physical attackers, also more coverage, any opinions?
https://pokepast.es/7f1a73478aa8bdeb

[jovial creek]

Lando wants life orb there but korai already has it

Bc it wants to work in tr and tw

So id go clam korai probably

[broken shuttle]

what's giga drain whims for

[lavish nexus]

extra water coverage and survivability

[broken shuttle]

if you want the water coverage go grass knot or energy ball

whims is not bulky enough or strong enough for giga to increase its longevity

[lavish nexus]

aight changed it to grass knot

[untold canopy]

Odd question, but could terapagos be a decent replacement for ogerpon? I completely understand if it isn’t!

[unborn hull]

Its Reg I, limited to 2 restricteds

[untold canopy]

Ohhh I didn’t know terapagos was restricted thank you!

[unborn hull]

Your welcome

[flat oyster]

https://pokepast.es/6c73842635d99293 I think were set i've been doing well at like 1200 ELO.

Urshifu is in a weird spot on this team though. He is useful don't get me wrong. Any better options?

Everything has been built on speed and outpacing opponents. Calyrex-S is crucial with a few mons.

[random wagon]

honestly looks really solid.

Moonblast is overall a better attacking option than Energy Ball on Whimsicott, especially since you can then hit hard into the Dragon, Dark, and Fighting types of the format/your Miraidons, Koraidons, Chien-Paos, Urshifus, and more.

To be honest, if anythjng doesn’t belong it would be Incineroar. Your team is hyper-offense oriented, and Incineroar can struggle to keep up with that pace. Ditto is a good replacement option to help against Trick Room teams if necessary. Ogerpon-H or Ogerpon-C can also help to keep the offense alive while still providing redirection, especially for your restricteds.

Why run Tera Ground without Tera Blast? If you are planning on running it, I suggest dropping Swords Dance or even Play Rough. If not, try swapping your Tera to either Fairy, Grass, Water, or even Stellar. Do note that Tera Stellar will need Sacred Sword over Swords Dance and Tera Grass or Water may force you to run a more defensive Zacian-C spread. I don’t mean super defensive, but you might want a bit of bulk.

I see you also mentioned that Urshifu-R feels weird. How often do you bring it? If you don’t bring it often, then I suggest trying and bringing it more, especially against other Calyrex-S or Zamazenta-C. Tera Stellar Surging Strikes chunks them both well and OHKOs most Calyrex-S. Chi-Yu can achieve this, but has to Overheat Zamazenta-C, switch, and then Dark Pulse/Snarl Calyrex-S to get both (or vice versa)

[flat oyster]

I bring it into heavy fire teams. It gets outsped and bullied. I’m relatively new to VGC so maybe I could get a bit of advice. Here are my current problems:

whimsicott gets killed turn 1 after using its tailwind most of the time

Fake out is a huge threat against cal s mirror matches and in any case where the opponent starts with a fake out user I feel compelled to bring incineroar

Any mons that outspeed or match me I feel compelled to bring whimsicott.

A lot of the time I am successful but as I reach higher elo I can tell this dependency will be a crux. What are some alternative ideas?

[random wagon]

• Whimsicott going down turn one shouldn’t be that big of an issue, since you get more momentum off of that, bringing something else in in its place. It, in most matchups, should just be there for Tailwind. Do note that some players will disrespect/ignore Whimscott because it doesn’t cause much of a threat most of the time. Use Encore to punish them for that if Whimsicott doesn’t go down turn 1.

• Opposing Fake Out shouldn’t make you feel forced to bring your own Fake Out. To be honest, Fake Out isn’t necessary in that matchup, especially since Whimsicott (with Covert Clock), Calyrex-S, and Tera Ghost Chi-Yu are immune to it, and the rest have Protect. You should be applying pressure with damage, not Fake Out.

• The third point is reasonable. If they all outspeed you or use their own tailwind, most of the time you should bring your own.

[flat oyster]

Okay I think I’m ready to move away from incin then. Not sure what to swap out. I’m trying to keep sp. atk and atk mons balanced. Chi-yu and whim do help with balancing that if needed though.

[random wagon]

i believe i mentioned options like ogerpon-h, ogerpon-c, and ditto above

[flat oyster]

Awesome thanks!

[undone brook]

https://pokepast.es/e5416693d3ad1698

Welcome any thoughts. Built most of the team around countering the mir/caly-i mirror and zama/caly-s. Urshi outspeeds both after tailwind/icywind or under TR and oneshots zama with a Tera fighting CC.

Caly and Mir are trained to live an astral. I've found AV just ruins calcs and saves me from pretty much anything that isn't an opposing Mir Draco meteor.

I still struggle against the mirror about 50% of the time but I think that might be my play. I also seem to get really messed up by Lunala.

I don't often find myself bringing bundle and unfortunately caly often feels like it's not doing much, except for when it does.

[sleek laurel]

is tera fighting urshifu intentional

[undone brook]

Yes. Tera fighting CC okhos max def zama.

[sleek laurel]

oh that's so goated

honestly i'm not much of a mirai cir player, the actual raters can help more for sure

[lyric void]

https://pokepast.es/41686eb55461e805

[flat oyster]

https://pokepast.es/11aed39e901ce26c Any weaknesses to my psychic team?

[onyx bear]

Wouldn't it be better to run moonblast on lunala? Over tera blast

[flat oyster]

yeah I was under the presumption it was multi target

I dropped dark pulse

for protect

😦

[onyx bear]

What

[flat oyster]

its dusk wing

[jovial creek]

I don't really like AV dawn wings

[onyx bear]

Oh

Makes more sense

[jovial creek]

What was your idea for it

[flat oyster]

I just wanted a trick room av thickums to take hits and drop expanding force aoes.

It was really fun testing it so I liked the idea

[jovial creek]

If you like it that's fine but I think power herb Meteor beam would be more optimal

Like 3 attacks+tr

[flat oyster]

Ill try it!

[floral quarry]

https://pokepast.es/27f39ab28bca05a9
CSR Koraidon Tailwind Bulky Offense
Can I get tips on what to lead against different popular cores?
Some things I need to be aware of, weaknesses and checks and counters etc.

[dawn elm]

https://pokepast.es/d6246f6c804ef911

I was having a ton of success with this team but I feel like it could be better

[jovial creek]

Wide guard zama maybe?

To make the csr mu easier

[floral quarry]

hey how do i counter trick room with this

and what do i do against indeedee

[onyx bear]

I think without a trick room setter you kind of have to deal with trick room. Or kill before it gets set up

[floral quarry]

hm alright
i have three fast mons and three slow ones

and two have priority

so i think i can manage pretty well

plus almost everyone has protect

[onyx bear]

Yeah, utilizing switches and protect to stall out trick room

If its really rough, might need a trick room setter to reverse the trick room

[floral quarry]

i can drop pollen puff on csr for trick room

[steep mesa]

https://pokepast.es/d4e9c8f6e226a14f js want help building tailroom

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[floral quarry]

What are the tornadus EVs doing

[steep mesa]

i js copied them from smogon

[floral quarry]

Tornadus @ Rocky Helmet  
Ability: Prankster  
Level: 50  
Tera Type: Dark  
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 4 SpA / 92 SpD / 28 Spe  
Bold Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Protect  
- Tailwind  
- Sunny Day  
- Bleakwind Storm  

this survives sash Urshifu RS surging strikes in rain 99.7% of the time and brings down urshifu to 51% HP @steep mesa
change the moves according to ur wishes but the EVs are right there

[steep mesa]

okie tyty

[floral quarry]

ur lunala is fine

why does ur ursaluna have speed EVs @steep mesa

urshifu and indeedee look good

why go for grass tera on urshifu

I'd rather keep the defensive typing and instead go for stellar tera

[steep mesa]

i wanted to start bringing it with tailwind so i gave it evs to help outspeed certain things in tailwind

i can change the tera, i js had it for spore immun

[floral quarry]

oh nvm ur not sashed

yea that's fine then

keep it like that

[steep mesa]

the evs or my urshifu

[floral quarry]

ursh

ur ursaluna gets 182 speed in tail

[steep mesa]

should i change the evs back then? i used to have min speed ursa

https://pokepast.es/ea9c76fbaa01092a this was my old ursaluna

[floral quarry]

miraidon without timid nature gets 187 speed

it's not outspeeding that

u need to ditch the speed EVs and make the guy bulky

it's ok u will outspeed hands and calyrex ice in tailwind

[steep mesa]

okok is 252 hp/252 atk/4 sp def/brave nature alright?

[floral quarry]

no u dont need brave nature

you should do +atk -spa nature @steep mesa

[steep mesa]

do i keep the speed ivs?

[floral quarry]

oh wait does min speed Ursaluna not outspeed min speed cir in trick room

hold on lemme check the speed tiers

[steep mesa]

min speed is 49

i believe could be wrong

[floral quarry]

ok never mind they're the same

yes go for min speed

0 IVs

brave nature

[steep mesa]

ok i did that

[floral quarry]

ok so the team is fine then

have fun

[steep mesa]

tysm!

[floral quarry]

report any issues later on

[steep mesa]

will do

prolly playing tmrw so i can report them then

[broken shuttle]

this seems p okay

i would maybe suggest roaring moon over torn

i'd also probably put 1-2 more points in speed to creep for other mons that go around 91 like pelliper/incin

or make it slower

Ursaluna @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 188 HP / 188 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Facade
• Headlong Rush
• Earthquake
• Protect

you could try smth like this maybe

124 is to speed creep the fast calyrex-ice by a point

Ursaluna @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Facade
• Headlong Rush
• Earthquake
• Protect

this could also work

it's EV'd to outspeed adamant urshifu in tailwind

i'd test and see how much speed is necessary

min speed is also an option but having some speed to use ursaluna in tailwind isn't a bad option

[broken shuttle]

if you use this spread you can get the jump on zamazenta in tailwind

which i think is rly useful

[distant trellis]

https://pokepast.es/b37e6955c74760da

tailroom is hard man 😭

the sun mu is also kinda dire so I threw torn over roaring moon

my main inspo was the San Antonio winning team

but now I lowk can't hit lunala

one of my ideas was urshifu dark over lando since I don't feel like lando does a lot here

my mirai mu is already manageable

[floral quarry]

https://pokepast.es/44e891987b13b3d1

I'm just NOT winning with this team (50% win rate at 1300 ladder)

Is it the team or is it me?

[sonic wind]

A big part is that the teamstyles you're trying to combine lack synergy

Screens wants prolonged games that enable for set up and allows for a team to function with less immidiete speed control.

Tailwind tries to take advantage of every turn by outputting as much damage as possible

There's also things like Rocky Helmet Torn on such an offensive team without Farigiraf

And 3 Fire type attackers being redundant

You end up getting countered really easily by something like Tera Fire Calyrex Ice or even Raging Bolt and Incineroar

[floral quarry]

so how do I fix this

[sonic wind]

Pick one archetype you want to focus on

[floral quarry]

well I wanted to have two modes of speed control

both trick room and tailwind

but i also want to use the CSR Koraidon core

@sonic wind is a team like that possibke

i thought but couldn't make it work

so i decided on only tailwind

[distant trellis]

tailroom works yeah

[sonic wind]

That's a bit hard

If you were to use it you'd probably use something like Farigiraf that's moreso using Trick Room for the Trick Room match up

Those are two of the fastest and most offensive Pokemon in the game

[distant trellis]

trick room with tailwind is usually a case of like

reversing an opponents trick room

or having mixed speed tiers to be adaptable to both

jack of all trades master of none

[floral quarry]

yeah alright so im fine with tailwind

my original idea with grimmsnarl was to trick lagging tail on my opponents

but priority isn't dynamic

so i switched to the standard clay screens set

I want to keep the CSR Koraidon core

@sonic wind tornadus is trained to live sash shifu surging strikes in rain

so that i can successfully get tailwind up and switch out immediately after to get it up again later

I added Chi-yu as a means to stop special attackers

and to deal with the steel types

Ogerpon as a ground resistance which can dish out damage in the sun and to water types like kyogre/urshifu

[floral quarry]

this is a team which i really liked (reg G, behzad muntazir's vancouver regional winner)

and it does that perfectly

[distant trellis]

yeah very aggressive team

its a good one

[gloomy birch]

i like shiliang tangs better

[broken shuttle]

yeah NGL not sure abt this one boss

[distant trellis]

ykw fair

its been strugglin a bit

the initial idea was howl zama to boost itself and caly I

but no one else rly benefits from howl

[broken shuttle]

tbh

[distant trellis]

and there's a lot of kinda random techs here as a result

[broken shuttle]

if you wanna use howl stuff pull a vgc uu and yoink gouge as your howler

don't waste your restricted slot on howl

it's more ok if it's smth that has real utility like wg/trick room zama/lunala

but like zama clicking howl just feels bad man

[distant trellis]

yeah its a lil bit situational

I will say tho

that +1 beheamoth bash hurts a ton

and its nice into fighting resists

but yeah I'm rarely clicking the button

[broken shuttle]

have you ever heard of

+1 behemoth blade

[distant trellis]

true !!

[broken shuttle]

[distant trellis]

but nah zac here ain't it

tbh

zama appreciates tr being up a bit more cause its kinda slow for a restricted

[broken shuttle]

i mean

tbh

nothing is rly it here

[distant trellis]

and also wide guard n shit

[broken shuttle]

[distant trellis]

again i was initially tryna take san antonio tailroom caly I

and slot zama in there as another bulky attacker

[broken shuttle]

ok i can work with that

lemme spin this back

[distant trellis]

but I slotted indeedee over ogerpon cause the mirai MU was a bit dire

[broken shuttle]

https://pokepast.es/0265d03f018bc582

boom

ok

now

i like lunala here over zama

way more

[distant trellis]

tbh I had smth closer to this orignally but my korai mu was miserable

[broken shuttle]

https://pokepast.es/806fda6814845085

[distant trellis]

it just beat the entire team

[broken shuttle]

i think that's workable

you have to force tr hard in that mu

[distant trellis]

roaring moon acrobatics couldn't bail me out either cause booster energy wouldn't activate

[broken shuttle]

go like

tera fire caly/water lunala +1 on lead

bring the other restricted and indd

spam lunala eforce and cir glacial/hhp

[distant trellis]

hmmm yeah fair

[broken shuttle]

this definitely had to be a player/tera type issue

you can absolutely beat korai with that six

[distant trellis]

in a vaccum yeah but the second restricted made things kinda difficult

[broken shuttle]

i mean

if second restricted is csr you have indd still

[distant trellis]

korai lunala just completely shattered the team of 6 in my experience

[broken shuttle]

hmm

what if you tried durshifu?

[distant trellis]

thats what I was thinking

cause torn feels a bit

meh

and I liked moon

[broken shuttle]

https://pokepast.es/e7b8ee4ca7230057

this + CB/glasses dursh

[distant trellis]

hmmm yeah that can work

[broken shuttle]

you could do moon or even whims here tbh

double dark type + lunala + indd should be p good into csr stuff

[distant trellis]

and ye lunala should be enough for korai

lowk was rly hoping to make cir zama work

cause it sounds kinda heat on paper

but maybe I would need to go a diff approach and run more anti sun techs in that mu

[broken shuttle]

tbh

idt it's the move rn

lunala has more synergy and zama has more synergy with csr

i'd wait a bit later into the meta before trying it out

[distant trellis]

fairs

[broken shuttle]

see what structures are good first

[distant trellis]

howl tech will have to wait 😔

do I run tr on lunala or wg 3 attacks

I feel the latter

cause expanding force moongeist and meteor beam

and then wg in the last slot

zama does get coaching I think but that might be an overcook

mfw I turn the fattest physical attacker into a utility mon

[broken shuttle]

tr 3a

[broken shuttle]

definitely

[distant trellis]

fr? I feel like tr on caly I is enough

like without wg csr just gets to click astral barrage for basically nothing

[broken shuttle]

hm

probably

it just feels bad not having it on lunala

ig you could just to wg three atks but that puts a lot of pressure on indd or caly to tr

which i don't like

[distant trellis]

ig but this is a tailroom team

like idk how much I should commit to having so many tr users

I had the one initially cause I had two redirectors so I do agree that I probably need two now

but idk wg kinda feels like lunala's best tool to compliment cir

[broken shuttle]

yeah fair

wg 3a is prolly fine

[lost phoenix]

i think on tailroom u just go gfire koraidon calyi btw

[unborn hull]

https://pokepast.es/783b3f8e34201900
Ok it just isn't pulling together, at first it was a Tr/tw team with farigiraf and calyrex shadow instead of ice, i changed calyrex-shadow for ice to deal with rillaboom, and then fwrigiraf felt weak after doing trick room as it was only there for helping hand, urshifu also felt weak as i wasnt bringing it that much ss i almost always opted to lead whimsicott miraidon tailwind then volt switch into iron hands, i chwnged farigiraf for hitmontop for rain intimidate fake out and wide guard all in one mon, i also changed urshifu R to a choice scarf set as i got reccomended to do so, i removed hitmontop but didnt like to add pelliper due to his terrible stats and it felt like itd jsut rain and spam huricane and helping hand, tyen i also felt like whimsicott felt so weak because it paired terribly with calyrex-ice but removijg miraidojs best partner feels wrong. It just isnt pulling together (and dont tell me to do arubega i dont like basically copying)

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[steep mesa]

would this be to hit stuff that hits my lunala hard?

ive been on the edge abt it but ive never tried putting in moon for torn

[broken shuttle]

basically it defensively holds up a lot better into calyrex-shadow and kyogre

[steep mesa]

i also wouldnt have to waste tera to not get taunted

[broken shuttle]

• it can knock off or acrobatics stuff like opposing urshifu which look like they could b p annoying

[broken shuttle]

yeah this too

[steep mesa]

yeah ill def try that

[broken shuttle]

i mean tbh

you said not to just recommend arubega

but that's what fits there

an ogerpon forme +1

either cornerstone or hearthflame

[unborn hull]

Idk i've always hated just copy and pasting teams

And i stil, have the whimsicott anti-synergy with calyrex-ice problem

[broken shuttle]

i think that's always gonna be a big issue with cir miraidon

you could try a different sort of cir mirai comp

with like grimmsnarl stuff

[unborn hull]

For example?

[broken shuttle]

https://pokepast.es/60276932b5e6a4e6
https://pokepast.es/2fa4ded72c8818c3

some of my friends have been testing these

for example

1st one is based off of joeux9's reg g team

[unborn hull]

Choice scarf & Assault vest miraidon feels off

And volcarona having 252 hp evs and nothing else

Also with ditto using focus sash instead of choice scarf

[broken shuttle]

o that's just bc the evs were never finished

[unborn hull]

Oh alr

[broken shuttle]

sash ditto is right

it's more consistent into stuff like CIR bc you speed tie them under tr rather than being slower

• u can actually use protect and aren't choicelocked

[unborn hull]

Oh yeah fair point

[broken shuttle]

• still beat CSR and zacian after copying it

[broken shuttle]

AV is good but you can also totally run specs on both

[unborn hull]

Alr

[broken shuttle]

just how they chose to build it out

[unborn hull]

Thx for the help

[broken shuttle]

yw

[steep mesa]

u think i should js run the basic roaring moon thats on smogon reg g?

Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Level: 50
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 244 HP / 76 Atk / 44 Def / 20 SpD / 124 Spe
Tera Type: Flying
Jolly Nature

• Knock Off
• Acrobatics
• Tailwind
• Protect

[broken shuttle]

yeah

if u need smth else from there adjust as needed

[steep mesa]

okiedokie ty

[past basin]

https://pokepast.es/5423be5645d55feb
Can this team work?

I didnt do any build yet

But could it work?

[broken shuttle]

not really

i mean

mausape and indeedee + arma are pretty bad

they just get outgunned really hard in a restricted format

[zealous steppe]

https://pokepast.es/7404c1d98126ba82

Getting walled by trickroom teams pretty hard, what can i do to counter?

usually tr caly teams or tr ursaluna w/ earthquake

[random wagon]

have you considered trying out imprison over shadow ball on indeedee-f? Shadow Ball really only hits what Chi-Yu and Lunala hits, and thanks to Imprison, Trick Room wont get up, and you’ll be in control in terms of speed.

Wide Guard should probably be here over Protect to protect your team from Earthquake and Glacial Lance

[gloomy birch]

why do you have 4 defense and 4 sp def EVs in Chi yu?

[floral quarry]

can i get help

[steep mesa]

in the few games ive had roaring moon has helped a lot, helps check csr and opposing lunala, ty for the suggestion

[broken shuttle]

ofc!

[tribal void]

https://pokepast.es/8f5876cc9057df0e screens kyogre team i made. I know it has quite a few weird, probably unviable mons but in all honesty i have no idea what would fit in. Ghold kind of walls calys + Zama with wide guard support and my zama also has imprison to improve the matchup against zama just a bit easier. Haven't fought lunala korai yet but it'll probably be a hellish mu. Any ideas for mons that could fit better into some of these slots?

[lavish nexus]

https://pokepast.es/ff52ae092aa1cdec

Pretty standard team with the current meta

[steep mesa]

do u think chien pao would work better than urshifu r?

[broken shuttle]

hmm

it could work

i don't mind it bc it's rly good next to zama

i think i would keep it urshifu tho

bc you rly want the immediate incin clean

[broken shuttle]

don't go dark pulse caly

even with tera dark

it's not good

go psychic

other than that looks good

[broken shuttle]

honestly normally i'd say it exceeds the two shitmon limit but i actually don't mind comfey here

i think something that could work pretty similarly is this

https://pokepast.es/d477261bfd567a83

you're basically condensing amoonguss and comfey into one mon in woach

then juggy for tw and ursh + zama for cleaning and sweeping

[broken shuttle]

i think i'd try raging bolt>grimmsnarl and ogerpon cornerstone>hearthflame

also i'd recommend going 252/252 jolly on koraidon and running nasty plot or encore over pollen puff calyrex

[floral quarry]

Hello!

[torpid nova]

kind of new to this, wondering if I could get any pointers?https://pokepast.es/7cbce805213e3dc4

[floral quarry]

Can you give your reasoning

[broken shuttle]

well

grimmsnarl is definitely too passive there

[floral quarry]

not doubting u or anything just wanted to learn

[broken shuttle]

ik

[floral quarry]

also i had a few questions

are volcarona and togekiss any good

fuck this game

[broken shuttle]

hearthflame has type overlap with chi-yu and cornerstone's sturdy is a lot more helpful into the mirror, raging bolt is strengthened by sun and helps a lot into kyogre and miraidon alongside cornerstone

[broken shuttle]

volcarona is a little niche but it's definitely usable yeah

[floral quarry]

yeah i need miraidon counterplay

also about chi-yu

can i try running tera flying

i swear it's more useful than ghost atp

[broken shuttle]

i mean you could

ghost is generally more useful if a bit predictable

i like ghost bc it means they can't force fake out into you

flying is cool for the fighting resist and ground immunity but idt it's rly all that useful

[floral quarry]

hm alright i'll keep ghost

[floral quarry]

whats ur opinions on running roaring moon

for a fast dark type

[broken shuttle]

here? no

[floral quarry]

why not

isn't it an incredible CSR counter

[broken shuttle]

rm is better on slower compositions where you don't necessarily need the tailwind

whereas on something more offensive like what you were running smth with prankster tailwind like whimsicott or tornadus are rly important for their immediate speed control

you need to be able to send damage quickly otherwise your opponent will outdamage and outspeed you and you'll lose

[floral quarry]

i see

[broken shuttle]

it's a decent csr counter but you already have chi-yu and your own tera dark calyrex

[floral quarry]

i'll be rebuilding the team and sending a paste in a sec

[broken shuttle]

so its dark typing and ability to check shadow rider are somewhat redundant

[floral quarry]

@broken shuttle can i run this

tera normal draining kiss

[broken shuttle]

you can run tnormal but i wouldn't suggest dkiss on sash caly

[floral quarry]

why though

i'll need a fairy type attacker

with grimm gone

[broken shuttle]

you don't need a fairy type attacker + that's not even what grimm does

[floral quarry]

aight so what's the final move

dpulse?

[broken shuttle]

no

encore or nasty plot

[floral quarry]

I like encore

idt this thing needs to set up

[broken shuttle]

u could also test wisp or disable or smth like it

this shitter's movepool is stupidly deep

[floral quarry]

absolutely

xD

thinking about removing kdon

[broken shuttle]

u jsut don't rly need 3a

[broken shuttle]

nah

i'd keep it

fits well there

[floral quarry]

wg zamazenta is so tempting

oh and is my tornadus set alrigth

252 Atk Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Tornadus in Rain on a critical hit: 156-189 (83.8 - 101.6%) -- 0.3% chance to OHKO

actually ykw i dont need this much bulk

i should be happy to be KOd after setting up tailwind

@broken shuttle

[broken shuttle]

you have a koraidon

and sunny day on your own torn

prolly don't need to calc for that

[floral quarry]

so i go full offense

and speed

@broken shuttle can i get help with the tornadus rb and rockpon sets
i've never built these

[broken shuttle]

send me the current team

[floral quarry]

https://pokepast.es/23487cfe6cb1ef4a in the works

https://pokepast.es/c3992d278d1aa77b the old one @broken shuttle

[broken shuttle]

https://pokepast.es/06bc804cc00f0dac

added bolt torn ogerpon spreads

these are just overall solid ones

if u find u need to calc for smth else later on then feel free to edit them

[floral quarry]

what are the spreads meant to achieve

anw tysm @broken shuttle

[broken shuttle]

bolt spread lives glacial lance or adamant pao icicle crash, cornerstone is just max/max cz that's all it rly needs

torn is just general bulk benchmarks

idr what exactly

[floral quarry]

alright ty

[tribal void]

Thanks for responding! I was honestly going for something like shiliang tang's NAIC team with wo chien but didn't know how to utilize wo chien in reg I so this was pretty helpful!

[broken shuttle]

ofc, could defo use some optimizations but the core idea is p good

[sleek laurel]

https://pokepast.es/1ec827c690db55e5

Korai Lunala PsySpam

Took the idea from a Wolfey patreon vid but he never actually fleshed out the team so I built that myself

Slower Korai with Flame Charge gives me an option for TR mode too

[wispy night]

https://pokepast.es/0eb7312af6c6b339 am i crazy or is walking wake good for rain and sun

[zealous steppe]

Can you give an idea on how to use that team? I've got a very similar one but im using fluttermane rather than whimsicott

I use fluttermane as a decent counter into miraidon/csr

with icy wind it also gives some speed control^

[sleek laurel]

It works the same somewhat

I like Whimsi because it gets access to Sunny Day

Which helps vs Rain

But like, generally want to play for game control, stuff like weather (when needed) & Speed

Based on the opponent’s team, you can see whether you want to be faster or go TR mode

If you win the control war then it should be rather smooth most of the time

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/8a9f64203540b369

who should be the 6th mon?

[zealous steppe]

u could have sm1 like farig with trickroom and get a diff move on caly ice

[narrow dock]

What about ursa B

[sleek laurel]

Even with Farig

You still want Trick Room on CIR

But yes Farig is good here

[wanton abyss]

This is well meaning but inadvisable. One of Caly Ice’s strengths is being able to set TR by itself

I would like to second the Farigiraf suggestion, and would recommend the Electric Seed set to better match up into opposing CIR and Korai*

[dusk sun]

https://pokepast.es/f2826d4292505d22

Ive updated it slightly, im open to any changes! Looking for better ideas for wide guard; i also think i dont have enough type coverage?

I was thinking maybe shadow ball instead of pollen pof on Caly?

[broken shuttle]

i would try tornadus>indeedee and psychic on calyrex

and then drop pollen puff for nasty plot or substitute

[random wagon]

serious nature kyogre goes hard ngl

[dusk sun]

what makes torn better?

I thought indeedee would be good to setup trick room since my teams a bit slow

[broken shuttle]

basically it gives you more immediate speed control into slower teams and into the tailwind mirror

[broken shuttle]

calyrex-shadow doesn't want to be in trick room

and having indeedee makes you rly vulnerable to wide guard