VGC Rates

[ornate cradle]

idkkk

[distant stump]

advice chat exists for a reason

[ornate cradle]

i just do

i don’t wanna be annoying :<

ty tho

[distant stump]

Gl with the team man

[ornate cradle]

thanks

[burnt surge]

oh also

the gapdos version would've had 0 issues

(though I probably would've still lost to IDBP Kommo-o)

[north tree]

+2 252 Atk Choice Band Tera-Ghost Dragapult Phantom Force vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Archaludon: 232-274 (117.7 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO

T1: howl + phantom

T2: howl and come up

[burnt surge]

🧠

[burnt surge]

nvm ran into idbp

and uh

I never was able to get gyara in

[gentle moon]

https://pokepast.es/19e2e4c39a91c6c1
How is my team
Tell if any changes is needed to be done

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean totem]

simply, very bad. it looks like a sun team but there is no sun

all the sets need redoing and i would suggest different mons as well

if you’re new, try using a team that has performed well recently, you can find results of recent tournaments at victoryroadvgc.com

[gentle moon]

Ok

[north tree]

!vgcresources

[drifting onyx]

VGC Resources
Format Details and Analyses: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/
Metagame Discussion Thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3732909/
Viability Rankings: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3735769/
Simple Questions, Simple Answers: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3588172/
Rental Teams: https://victoryroadvgc.com/sv-rental-teams/
Teams From Most Recent Tournament: https://cut-explorer.stalruth.dev/regional-dortmund
VGCPastes Repository: http://tinyurl.com/vgcpastes2023
Room on Showdown: https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc
Discord: https://discord.gg/Wt5dD7z
Last Updated <t:1708501776:f>

[north tree]

Use the VGCPastes repository

Find a team you like from there

Play a few bo3s with it and then you have a better idea of how a good team works

And therefore how to build kne

[cursive wigeon]

https://pokepast.es/25fe5635a16de732 i am both having a little fun with it and also trying to make something work, i feel like this team is almost there in terms of being useable but i just cant figure it out, also i know that its a sp.atk only team and my work around was adding chi-yu for beads of ruin and whimsicott with fake tears.. but maybe its just bad all the way through and i need to completely restart lmk LOL

[wild sinew]

this is pretty good, relevant changes I'd recommend would be using Life Orb Ursaluna and Choice Specs Chi-Yu, they make more use of Trick Room / Tailwind respectively.

Clefairy also looks out of place and doesn't take advantage of your almost hyper offense team, Speed Booster Energy Flutter Mane would be the right call to partner with Chi-Yu and Whimsicott.

you could also go 3 attacks Focus Sash Chi-Yu and Choice Specs Flutter Mane if you find Whimsicott getting sun up consistently, Nasty Plot just requires support you don't have and Fake Tears / Sun is enough to break through teams.

[cursive wigeon]

omg tysm i tried specs chi-yu and flutter and my team is just fixed, still need to work on some minor stuff but it feels sooo much better

[balmy valley]

https://pokepast.es/1e2bc2bbdcd4ca37

Raging Bolt HO

[wild sinew]

good, only change I'd recommend is Taunt over Icy Wind on Tornadus, your Amoonguss counterplay is pretty sketchy.

[balmy valley]

is ture

[wanton abyss]

I agree

your hard TR matchup is just blast them in the face I assume

[balmy valley]

yes just Heat Wave + something

[wild sinew]

oh btw you want Tera Ghost Chi-Yu

[balmy valley]

o for fake out right

[wild sinew]

yeah

[balmy valley]

wondeirng if Tera Fire would work and just try to smack them as hard as possible

probably not

[wild sinew]

lead Torn Yu, Tera Sunny Day Overheat the Farigiraf
and in general your team is too frail to switch around so it helps

[balmy valley]

252 SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera-Fire Chi-Yu Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Farigiraf in Sun: 330-390 (145.3 - 171.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

smh

wait double booster energy

💀

[balmy valley]

can't go Booster Flut and Bolt, assuming Magnet Bolt?
or Sash Stellar Flut

[wild sinew]

Goggles Bolt preferably
could also Specs Flutter Sash Chi-Yu

[cerulean totem]

i agree, booster flutter isn’t the best set there

your ting-lu matchup is a bit sketchy btw

oger works but you’re gonna have to bring it to the vs ting-lu games and then they have a very easy time knowing what mon to focus down

[balmy valley]

Ting-Lu mu is not sketchy

just Tera Fire Sun Overheat

(that's going to be an answer to most things)

252 SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera-Fire Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 100 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu in Sun: 210-248 (86.4 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

[cerulean totem]

fair enough

[fresh flicker]

We only rate complete teams.

[distant stump]

I mean yeah we only rate completed teams

but wogerpon is the easay answer here

theres no space

[distant stump]

is this a singles team?

[sand minnow]

No

Why

[distant stump]

Cant really say it nicely but pre much every mon here is not viable

If your new to VGC I recommend taking a rental team to get your bearings on the metagame and how to play

!vgcresources

[drifting onyx]

VGC Resources
Format Details and Analyses: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/
Metagame Discussion Thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3732909/
Viability Rankings: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3735769/
Simple Questions, Simple Answers: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3588172/
Speed Tiers: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3737294/
Rental Teams: https://victoryroadvgc.com/sv-rental-teams/
Teams From Most Recent Tournament: https://cut-explorer.stalruth.dev/regional-dortmund
VGCPastes Repository: http://tinyurl.com/vgcpastes2023
Room on Showdown: https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc
Discord: https://discord.gg/Wt5dD7z
Last Updated <t:1708653572:f>

[distant stump]

You can find them in the rental teams link

[sand minnow]

So to put it simply

The team is bad because nothing is viable

Kinda sucks that if that’s the case I have to limit myself to stupid legendsries

Which is lame

[winter gulch]

you can make a solid team without legendaries I think

I think the main thing is that the mons you have on your team don't really work well together

and are overall a bit too passive

Trick Room archetypes for example are great at being strong without having many legendaries

torkoal, armarouge, indeedee, p2, etc. are great without being legends

and your favorite metagame staples like rillaboom, incin, amoonguss aren't either

[sand minnow]

I’ve tried a trick room team before

Failed miserably

[distant stump]

Yes because your new

its fine

[sand minnow]

I don’t get this stuff man

[winter gulch]

I like trick room teams, they are fun to play and even more fun when you nuke

[distant stump]

I recc to practice and hone your skills

[sand minnow]

I just like basculin cause it almost Ohkod a Iron Hands and it Ohkod a Tornadus

There is one Pokémon that is making me lose all the time tho

https://tenor.com/view/urshifu-pokemon-pokemon-sword-and-shield-pokemon-journeys-urshifu-move-gif-24747047

[winter gulch]

Basculin reminds me of one of my favorite mons, Regieleki

[distant stump]

You dont have to use legendaries

[sand minnow]

Specifically this one

So far the one thing that worked was Grass Terrain Unburden Hawlucha

[distant stump]

You can build a pretty solid team without them

start of a hard tr team

[sand minnow]

Can

Can I use Slowking

[distant stump]

If your trying to have fun yes

[sand minnow]

Ok tell you what

[distant stump]

if you want to make a good team no

[sand minnow]

Can I at least

Add my Dusclops

[burnt surge]

Ftr using legendaries doesn't make ur team more or less lame

[sand minnow]

His pain split build is clutch

[burnt surge]

Legendaries are just Pokemon at the end of the day

[distant stump]

if you want

but its gonna be mid there

[sand minnow]

Ok but what sounds cooler

[distant stump]

real I dont get the sentinment

[sand minnow]

Hey I won with a mewtwo

Or hey I won with a basculin

[burnt surge]

Mewtwo

100%

[sand minnow]

If you win with a legendary it’s less impressive then winning with a mediocre pokemon

I don’t feel skillful using them

[distant stump]

Mewtwo isen't allowed first

[burnt surge]

Yeah but you're also less likely to win with a mediocre Pokemon

Mewtwo is also a mediocre legendary

[distant stump]

Most of the legendaries aren't even that strong rn, and still if it was possible for everyone to instantly win with legendaries woulden't we see all of them dominating

[burnt surge]

In comparison to other restricted Pokemon

[distant stump]

but most arent

[sand minnow]

I guess so

[burnt surge]

It also depends on if you consider Paradox Pokemon to be legendaries

[sand minnow]

No

No I don’t

I consider the paradox’s of legendaries

[burnt surge]

Alright then there opens up a bunch of other viable Pokemon

Even if you don't want to use legendaries

[sand minnow]

If I did use a legendary I limit myself to one

[distant stump]

I'll just say your no more or less skilled for using the best pokemon available, as your still playing against people also using them.

[burnt surge]

(Which I think is a very arbitrary limitation)

[distant stump]

and like

play and teambuilding outmatches mon choice (to an extent)

[distant stump]

as i said you can build smh decent

[burnt surge]

Yeah

Like this has only one legendary

https://pokepast.es/18c2b70c2252770f

I wasn't building it to only have one legendary

[distant stump]

It does?

[burnt surge]

I was building a team that is good that also happens to only have one legendary

[burnt surge]

Guy doesn't consider Paradox mons to be legendary so it's just Chien Pao

[distant stump]

wth pao is a legendary

since when

[burnt surge]

Pretty sure

https://www.serebii.net/pokemon/legendary.shtml

[sand minnow]

The ruins don’t feel like legendsried

At all

[winter gulch]

the tapus of gen 9

[distant stump]

Ig

What are the gen 8 equivilent again?

[winter gulch]

rillaboom

[distant stump]

-_-

no but like legendaries

[winter gulch]

rillaboom

I'm not kidding

its as good as a legend

[burnt surge]

Regis, Galar Birds, Urshifu

And the horses

[distant stump]

Ya know what I mean

[distant stump]

Aint that dlc stuff

pao was base game

[burnt surge]

There's nothing in base SS no

[sand minnow]

Is this a trick room team?

[sand minnow]

This

[winter gulch]

uh fr though I think the equivalent is probably the fossils (but they aren't legendary)

[burnt surge]

No

It's hyper offense

[sand minnow]

It looks

Like one tho

[burnt surge]

Ctrl F Trick Room

[winter gulch]

offensive gyarados is interesting

same with goggles tera poison mono dark

[burnt surge]

I took the sample Gambit set

[distant stump]

[burnt surge]

And changed to Goggles cuz I didn't want Glasses and Tera Psn cuz Choru recommended it to me

[distant stump]

Vish maybe

[burnt surge]

Mr. Fish™️

[burnt surge]

Have definitely hurt a lot from mono Dark but that's what the sample set is

[winter gulch]

I feel like you might benefit more from iron head

since you have gouging fire to get you some attack boosts

[burnt surge]

Maybe

[winter gulch]

and you're not going for all out damage with mono dark

[burnt surge]

I'll test that out fs

An earlier version of this team had a Dragapult and Gapdos

But Choru said no

[distant stump]

If your with gouging

You can go Iron head /sucker / kowtow / prot ig

I like sd more but thats probs fine as you can howl with gouging

[distant stump]

:< I stand by that

[burnt surge]

Tbf I was super weak to Archaludon and Kommo-o

So it was probably for the best

[distant stump]

Sorry dragapult

maybe good

but need to see it cooked mor

[winter gulch]

gapdos is actually really annoying

pult though, uhhh

[burnt surge]

I saw Eve post a Pao Pult screenshot and was like "yeah"

And she also talked about Howl Gouging Fire

Pao Pult may not be it but Gouging is the real deal

[distant stump]

It is

Gouging is really fun

[winter gulch]

I hate gouging fire

bc it walls my whole team

its really good though

[distant stump]

Whats your team again?

sun ho or some variant of it right

[burnt surge]

I also like Gouging + Gyara cuz it does really well into Torkoal

Which would be a lot more annoying if I had to commit Waterpon Tera

[distant stump]

Being able to just howl your physical mons outta intim is very satisying

[burnt surge]

It outruns Pult too so you now have a +1 CB mon that can't be Intimidated

Gyara does the same thing with Amulet and DD

And Gambit is anti Intimidate

[distant stump]

gapdos is just like

a wet noodle tho

[burnt surge]

125 Attack and Defiant is fine

[distant stump]

like you blow on it

and it dies

[burnt surge]

90/90/90 bulk

Better than Ogerpon

[distant stump]

better than I thought ngl

but fighting/flying is not ideal

[burnt surge]

Solid STAB combination honestly

[distant stump]

like playing dance around the raging bolt

[burnt surge]

Not the best defensively bc Flutter Mane obv but great offensively

[distant stump]

ye

[burnt surge]

Beats both common Intimidators directly

[distant stump]

flying is just solid

[burnt surge]

Has Tailwind

[distant stump]

problem

just dont lead incin!

easy

[burnt surge]

U-turn

[distant stump]

thats what I found with milo and co

[distant stump]

then it has to come back in

some time

[burnt surge]

Just kill their mons lol

[distant stump]

Why dident I think of that

[burnt surge]

125 Attack w 120 BP STAB moves

[distant stump]

...that lower its health or defenses

[burnt surge]

It has nice traits but unfortunately the good mons are too good

[distant stump]

its just like

you can only really trade

with gapdos

its not really staying on the field for multiple turns in a row

[burnt surge]

!vgcresources

[drifting onyx]

VGC Resources
Format Details and Analyses: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/
Metagame Discussion Thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3732909/
Viability Rankings: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3735769/
Simple Questions, Simple Answers: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3588172/
Speed Tiers: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3737294/
Rental Teams: https://victoryroadvgc.com/sv-rental-teams/
Teams From Most Recent Tournament: https://cut-explorer.stalruth.dev/regional-dortmund
VGCPastes Repository: http://tinyurl.com/vgcpastes2023
Room on Showdown: https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc
Discord: https://discord.gg/Wt5dD7z
Last Updated <t:1708653572:f>

[distant stump]

thats what I have found

[burnt surge]

Huh two 5-4 gapdos

One on psyspam and one was a scarfer

[distant stump]

Gappy

psyspam is interesting

[burnt surge]

Wait the Scarf Gap was used with a howl Gouging

https://pokepast.es/c81b684bd55299e3

That's cool

[distant stump]

Interesting team

kinda looks like flutter food

[burnt surge]

Top 4 at Melbourne

https://pokepast.es/0f442b186b769766

Yeah it seems like it has 1-2 placings at each regional

[distant stump]

Wtf is this

australia isen't real smh

on second glance its not that bad but still

[burnt surge]

Hi @wild sinew 👋

[distant stump]

they also aren't real

[burnt surge]

[winter gulch]

I will say I feel like that paste

is more of the guy and less of the mon

I swear that guy cuts every aus reg

[wild sinew]

why did this get so far

oh

I'm a big rainless Arch hater

[winter gulch]

its really funny seeing your reaction to teams

anything that's not meta or something you like instantly earns a "how did this place"

[distant stump]

I get what ur saying but like theres only one answer in how it got so far in that the piloter was just better lmao

[burnt surge]

Is the VS Recorder still a thing in SV?

[wild sinew]

lmao

I can't even deny
I hate a lot of teams

[distant stump]

I coulden't tell...

[burnt surge]

Luna do you hate my team?

[winter gulch]

I've slowly earned a mentality that is: yeah ukw people make weird stuff work

[distant stump]

I mean yeah

while teambuilding is important imo skill far outweighs a good team

[wild sinew]

what is it

[burnt surge]

This

[wild sinew]

I like it for the most part

[distant stump]

"Pon > gyra"

[wild sinew]

LMAO

[burnt surge]

Lol

[wild sinew]

exactly what I was thinking

[distant stump]

Nah trust in gyra

[burnt surge]

True!

[winter gulch]

low key I am interested in the purpose of DD gyarados

but it is kinda nice as a pick

[burnt surge]

basically gives this team a cleaner while having utility against Trick Room setters and Amoongus with Taunt

initial version was Tera Ground EQ but Tera Flying Tera Blast was just better

[wild sinew]

ig my issues are that it can be hard to support 2 set up sweepers with your minimal support and 2 protects, making it difficult to position. Gouging also provides howl so not like set up is mandatory. Because Fake Out / Redirection is so common, Gyara struggles to answer tr and then you notice the issue with having minimal protects.

[cerulean totem]

you will not win with a mediocre pokemon, especially if new. even pokemon that sound bad can be good if used well (pachurisu being the obvious example here), but let me put it to you this way:

mewtwo is bad in vgc, but is a legendary
amoonguss is a consistent staple of vgc, but is not a legendary

if i saw a mewtwo win a tournament, i would be much more surprised than amoonguss, because amoonguss is simply better.

tldr: legendaries are not always good, non-legendaries are not always bad and you will only win by using strong pokemon

[sand minnow]

I mean

I guess that’s fair

That’s actually a smart way to put it

Amoonguss isn’t a legendary but is stronger then most legendary

Just because their legendaries doesn’t always mean their good is what your saying

[cerulean totem]

so limiting yourself to no/one legendary is just kinda dumb, because plenty of better pokemon are not legendaries and if you want a challenge then just don’t use high usage mons

[cerulean totem]

yeah

obviously urshu/torn/etc are very good rn, but stuff like articuno has never been good

if you want to win as a beginner, use pokemon that are high in usage with good synergy

no one will win with a bad pokemon, legendary or not

[sand minnow]

Fair

But is a Pokémon like Dusclops really that bad?

[cerulean totem]

dusclops has been good in the past but is mediocre at best rn

use farigiraf or p2

[sand minnow]

Porygon 2?

[cerulean totem]

yeah, tera poison is great defensively against fighting types and flutter mane, eviolite makes it very bulky (similar to dusclops), and the combination of tera poison tera blast and ice beam (along with non-tera normal terablast) is deadly into the meta rn with a spatk boost. recover allows it to stay alive for basically as much as it wants, but you could also try giving it another support move if you want

[sand minnow]

That’s fair honestly

I’ll use it

I did like Painsplit trick room

[wild sinew]

use the good Pokemon and just climb higher or participate in tournaments if you want a challenge!!!

[sand minnow]

Ok so then what are some mons that synergies well with P2

Like what are some good TR mons

[tame bison]

Hi! I'm unsure if I'm in the right place, but I wanted some advice on building a team centering around Deoxys! It's been my favorite pokemon since forever, and I'm just now getting into competitive Pokemon. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated :)

[tranquil creek]

my college is doing a pokemon tournament soon under Regulation C rules and I'm planning on doing a snow team, any advice on things to change/tweak https://pokepast.es/12536e2fae8253a1

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[burnt surge]

so this channel in particular isn't really the most relevant place for this sort of general discussion; you'd want to head to #comp-general
anyway, if you want to use Deoxys, you can either use Deoxys-Attack in Ubers or regular Deoxys in Ubers UU

[sand minnow]

whats an amoonguss build

[drifting onyx]

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/amoonguss/vgc

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/amoonguss/vgc

[burnt surge]

wth

whatever

[tame bison]

Thank you! Sorry for asking in the wrong place lol

[burnt surge]

no worries, it's just that you're new here and probably saw discussion in here first

both #comp-general and #comp-general-2 are for general discussion, which also involves asking about how to build teams with deoxys

[drifting onyx]

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/rillaboom/vgc

[distant stump]

wtf you can just do this

[sand minnow]

what are good trick room mons

[distant stump]

Uh

Theres a lot of them

can you narrow it down a bit?

[sand minnow]

uh

idk whats one that strong but very slow

i mean

[distant stump]

like hard trick room where your team loses if it doesen't go up, semi room where you can play in and out of trick room, or tailroom where you have multiple modes

[sand minnow]

very very very slow

[sand minnow]

ig hard

[distant stump]

Alright its called hard tr then, like purely tr based

Generally the best mons for that are

Ursaluna, Hatterenee, Torkoal, Armarouge

in the trick room sweepers

[sand minnow]

ill go ursaluna

i have a physcic type

2 actually

[distant stump]

Flutter, Scarf Urshifu, and sometimes Drago

in the fast damage dealer slot

Indeedee, Cresselia, Hisui liligant

[sand minnow]

what moves should i give him

[distant stump]

in the support

off the top of my head

[sand minnow]

other then facade

https://pokepast.es/392f8651b162f81e is this good?

[distant stump]

Not really :<

problem here

theres way too many supports

in hard trick room

unless your like

ting lu pory stuff

with incin

you need to deal damage

in those 5 turns

otherwise your opp can just stall it ou

[sand minnow]

or they could use urshifu

[distant stump]

Holy shit I diden't even realize the scarf indeedee

Uhh why?

[sand minnow]

idk thats what a website said to do

[distant stump]

Which website 😭

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/

I really recommend using this website for strategies and sets

[sand minnow]

this one

[wild sinew]

Ohh

Look in Regulation F not the other tiers

[distant stump]

Look for regulation f

the other things are different format

[wild sinew]

What you should find yeah

[drifting onyx]

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/indeedee-f/vgc

[burnt surge]

huh'

[distant stump]

danm auto directs to the first tier

[sand minnow]

what counters urshifu

tell me

rn

i hate that thing

[burnt surge]

Amoong is pretty solid into it

[sand minnow]

anything else

[distant stump]

Which urshifu

[sand minnow]

the good one

[burnt surge]

they're both good

[sand minnow]

ok the better one

[burnt surge]

just say the name of the urshifu forme dude

[sand minnow]

oh

water

[wild sinew]

Amoon, Rilla, Bolt, speed control. Waterpon and Flutter Mane to an extent

[twilit pollen]

hihi hellorp i am cooking again
what should i change to make this team better
https://pokepast.es/b7b2c8f640a82d32 (guaranteed 9hko is my alt for GAMERING)

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[twilit pollen]

damn we have an amount of raters

[distant stump]

replace gambit, defiant doesen't really help with anything there

[north tree]

If you're asking generally it looks fine if you know what you're doing

[twilit pollen]

oh
fair enough

[north tree]

Not sure on the torn spread and gambit

[distant stump]

bolt or rillaboom is much nicer there

[twilit pollen]

all the sets r from smogon xd

[distant stump]

only a few of us are active

[distant stump]

its an old one afaik

[twilit pollen]

and waterpon's analysis said to pair it with gambit i think

guh

dammit/....

[north tree]

This was also old lol

[twilit pollen]

fair enough

[twilit pollen]

MISINFORMATION on MY smogon ?! (jk

wait will there b an update soon

[north tree]

Idk ogerpon does still pair well with gambit

[twilit pollen]

fair enough

[north tree]

But it pairs well with just about everything

[twilit pollen]

but defiant was stated to be Not Helpful

overlord is probably even worse in vgc

[north tree]

I think defiant Gambit may be ok if you just plan on being able to play a balance mode

With SD gambit and fake out double redirection

That can't be intimidated

[wild sinew]

Tbh

[twilit pollen]

o,gomgomg hi luna leo vgc stuff

[wild sinew]

I think looking at the team wrong

Replace Tornadus with something like Landorus or Raging Bolt and it looks a lot nicer than if you replaced Kingambit imo

[twilit pollen]

what would be the best mon choices for that

[wild sinew]

[twilit pollen]

interesting

fair enough

[north tree]

No torn tbh

Torn doesn't benefit Gambit unless it's crazy fast AV gambit

[twilit pollen]

Man rip my twind and dgleam in the same turn shenanigans

Fair enough tho ill do that tysm

[north tree]

You could also just replace Gambit for ursh single

[twilit pollen]

ooh

[north tree]

Same dark stab, still annoys incin, you can technically run tera stellar to kill incin through intimidate

[twilit pollen]

funny?!

wait

what set would it be

there's 2 on smog

[north tree]

The sash one

Btw at this point you probably replace either amoonguss or torn for raging bolt

[twilit pollen]

ooh ty

who would be best to replace tho

or is it just choose one

[north tree]

Choose one

Depends on your playstyle

[twilit pollen]

ok i think since i was told to Kick The Torn i think ill try that first

ty ty tho!

wait which set should i use for raging bolt

[north tree]

Assault vest

But I've seen someone run a similar team with booster energy

[twilit pollen]

okie dokie ill make 2 copies of the team

1 with each set ig

wait cm with booster or 3a with booster?

[wild sinew]

3A

[twilit pollen]

Tysm tysm tysm

Thanks everyone

[cursive wigeon]

https://pokepast.es/5c2e8a3a97d42da8 i need some help refining my team, i dont know about tera grass but it does help into amoongus, rapid urshifu and a problem ive been having as of late, landorus.
i also dont know how i feel about my chi-yu, i feel like the move set is alright but could maybe be improved.
also if anyone has anything else they think i should change pls lmk cause i plan to compete with this team ty :)

[north tree]

Not too sure on farig bloodmoon, you'd rather have some physical attackers. Chi-yu should go lorb or specs with 3/4 attacks and flutter mane can run icy wind, moonblast, shadow ball protect with sash if chiyu is specs. Ogerpon-wellspring can probably go instead of farigiraf and maybe glimmora or single strike instead of bloodmoon

also replace solar beam on raging bolt, the main ground type takes more from draco anyways (don't run dragon pulse on such an offensive team)

snarl, ewebs, volt switch could all be used

[storm quiver]

i did a thing https://pokepast.es/7eb288563ad05b28

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[storm quiver]

oh no you did not need to ping for that worrywhirl

[cursive wigeon]

ty for the help, i did end up changing bolts moveset to SB, thunder clap, eweb, and dracom, i wanted to keep sb as it works really well with whimsicotts sunny day, and i also wanna have farigaraf to avoid prio moves, plus a decent counter to both Troom and tailwind (ive also made it hit hard enough that its a pretty good pick just for damage) and i could drop bloodmoon if i knew another mon to replace with that hits as hard and is as bulky. lastly my theme for the team is to have all sp.atk (thats why i have protect&bulky chi-yu and whimsicott with fake tears) i know my team could be better with physical attackers but i just wanna keep the theme going. so if you have any ideas on replacements pls lmk <3

[cerulean totem]

you did NOT cook

[storm quiver]

yes i did

[mighty stone]

https://pokepast.es/589f533c2f548bfc

i realize drago isnt that good with flutter existing but i thought itd be fun

also i dont olay that much vgc so idk

[dawn elm]

https://pokepast.es/1979e6e427b8fbe5 how does this team look?

[wild sinew]

This is a nice start to a Regidrago team actually, it has the niche of just deleting everything that isn't Flutter which you can leave to Ghold.

I'd recommend Landorus in the Rillaboom slot as it's an excellent partner to Gholdengo, threatening lots of Make It Rain resists, especially Kingambit which folds this team.

Not the biggest fan of Focus Sash Tornadus but probably fine.

[distant stump]

Muk and Glim are really outta place here

I really recommend sacking both as they dont really contribute to the overall team structure/wincondition, instead something like moon/flutter is nice

[distant stump]

Switch out gouging and maybe gambit for something else, not enough of the team benefits from gouging and it plays too fast for tailroom

Gambit isen't great there too as again theres not much benefiting from defiant and the prio as your just going trick room anyways

Urshifu-S and incin work well in those slots, big damage dealer and coverage as well as support in ggetting tr up with incin and just general utility

[wild sinew]

Honestly think the two are fine there
Gouging Gambit Waterpon Flutter is pretty much the mandatory 4

[distant stump]

Depends on where you want to take the team tho

im assuming he wants to go more trick room

basically pick, trick room or gouging

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/

your sets are kinda wack

take them from here

I highly recc

[wild sinew]

Wouldn't you say Giraffe Gouging is real

[distant stump]

nah

[wild sinew]

Just as a mu check and speed control for another mode vs Gouging's bad mus

[distant stump]

Problem with gouging fig is that gouging only really works if your running fast pokemon

or prio

[wild sinew]

Smth like this
https://pokepast.es/b642f17639e426a5

[distant stump]

to take advantage of howl and the lowered attacking from breaking giving that erxtra bulk

as gouging doesen't offer speed

fig wants the opposite

[distant stump]

I dont really like this

[winter gulch]

I swear people slap giraf onto everything

[distant stump]

real

I mean

its a pre good last slot mon

[winter gulch]

Its ok

[distant stump]

its always gonna be like

pre good

but it rarely fixes any mu's

is the problem

its only good if the rest of the team is solid

[mighty stone]

what set for lando?

and torn

[wild sinew]

Just Sheer Force Life Orb stuff
Tornadus would be the bulky variant

You look like you've taken spreads from the Strategy Dex at least so those sets are what I recommend as well

[mighty stone]

ok

[cerulean totem]

draco is very good on ho teams, this is a good one. just switch out sash on torn and adjust its EVs, i think covert cloak tera steel would do better than tera ghost sash here due to incin + flutter beating the shit out of most leads you have

while lando would make a good partner for gholdengo, i fear you would not have enough support to let gholdengo setup, and you add an unneccessay weakness to ting lu

[mighty stone]

so what happens over lando

and is it still tailwind/bleakwind/icy wind/protect

[cerulean totem]

@mighty stone i edited the team to try it a bit earlier i’ll send paste when i can find it

[mighty stone]

ok

[cerulean totem]

https://pokepast.es/0066527d06761c8f note gholdeno, incin, ogerpon and tornadus evs. and torn + incin item. no moves changes

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean totem]

i thought rilla lacks damage though, maybe try a grassy seed set

[rapid quarry]

Trying to make Regigigas valid:
https://pokepast.es/7149b9bd16a2d4ae

Tell me stuff that I could fix

*I added protect to G-Weezing

[mighty stone]

miracle or grassy seed

[fresh flicker]

Send the paste with the EV's, also many team options are questionable.

And you need more protect.

[rapid quarry]

I dont know how to do that lol 😭😭

[fresh flicker]

!pokepaste

[drifting onyx]

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180492013660/pokepaste2.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=2d3caf4b912c30f438c896f0b696d9c80bd50d9e5a4a8ed067bca9e5dbf6ff3c&

[fresh flicker]

@rapid quarry

[rapid quarry]

I use the app

and it doesnt show link

alr 1 second

Alr I done it I just realised that it didnt save EVS and nature

https://pokepast.es/24ae8154b12e2d24

@fresh flicker

[fresh flicker]

I think this is the first time you're building a team in VGC.

I'd recommend using pre-built teams.

!vgcresources

[drifting onyx]

VGC Resources
Format Details and Analyses: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/
Metagame Discussion Thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3732909/
Viability Rankings: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3735769/
Simple Questions, Simple Answers: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3588172/
Speed Tiers: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3737294/
Rental Teams: https://victoryroadvgc.com/sv-rental-teams/
Teams From Most Recent Tournament: https://cut-explorer.stalruth.dev/regional-dortmund
VGCPastes Repository: http://tinyurl.com/vgcpastes2023
Room on Showdown: https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc
Discord: https://discord.gg/Wt5dD7z
Last Updated <t:1708653572:f>

[wild sinew]

I recommend experimenting with Landorus in the slot

[cerulean totem]

i meant miracle seed

[cerulean totem]

maybe

[cursive wigeon]

i need some help, i cant decide if im cookin or if im cookin meth, i really wanna make this team work cause i think its the most fun ive had in a long time, also it really isnt bad (imo maybe im wrong) but i feel like its still missing something. i wanna have a full sp.atk team, so i made sure i had work arounds to mons who have very high sp.def with both bulky chi-yu (to survive longer and keep beads of ruin online) as well as whimsicott with fake tears and sunny day to boost my proto mons. my problem is in two things, i cant seem to find a way to keep speed control AND also snarl + eerie impulse (that ive been weirdly running into a lot) shut down my team, so i think maybe i need to swap either farig or bloodmoon. anyone have any thoughs? is it just doomed? https://pokepast.es/ea711cf69ed86002

(i also started playing around with scream tail+ adding taunt to my whimsicott)

((might be cooking meth))

[inner hazel]

https://pokepast.es/4274816071ee1ef0

i like vipers power but she doesn’t feel like she 100% fits in it i don’t like the lack of coverage also but i don’t know who else to use

[digital sierra]

https://pokepast.es/3a7c8451c33ef487 is this team cooking or nah?

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/8d0f6a655ea0f61d hows this team

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant stump]

Imo remove pory and maybe gambit, farig just better fits the team and you only really need 1 tr setter

something like urshifu tornadus or pon tornadus or incin flutter works

[wild sinew]

Not sure how to take this team honestly, Cresselia is a bit passive and Heatran overlaps, neither taking enough advantage of Waterpon Incin. Serperior as you may have guessed is pretty eh, you already have Grass Water coverage and it'd be nicer if you had more offense

Also recommend a bulkier Flutter Mane, SpA Booster doesn't need max speed.

[distant stump]

Lotta the mons here are kinda mid

I recommend removing tsareena for amoonguss, enam for flutter, and potentialy hands for incin

[wild sinew]

Almost, but leans too much into the trick room mode and Tsareena is an eh pic in general imo

[distant stump]

no mention of enam?/

[wild sinew]

^ What you'll notice with those picks is that even if the latter two are slow, they function well outside of tr

[distant stump]

also just generally more powerful and offer more utility

[wild sinew]

Same issue really

• Have more flexibility, Flutter is good for a faster mode and something to do when you can't set tr

[distant stump]

no i mean like you diden't mention in the problem mons section lmao

like tsareena mention but no enam

[digital sierra]

i did end up swapping tsareena for waterpon

i chose enam since i wanted to go for hard tr, and it's a bulkier flutter that doesnt fear amoonguss

[wild sinew]

Ah

[distant stump]

problem is what happens

when trick room doesen't get set up

[wild sinew]

Tarpeena didn't lean into tr as much but I still wanted to say its eh

[distant stump]

either it runs out or you cant safely set it up

[digital sierra]

touche

[wild sinew]

Hard hard tr is in general
Not good

[digital sierra]

most of the time if i fail to get tr up, then its a guaranteed loss regardless

[wild sinew]

Wouldn't be the case with Flutter and stuff tbf

[digital sierra]

but i never really thought about a plan for an endgame where tr is down lol

https://pokepast.es/7f5e15972085c435 aight this is what im looking at now

[neon sequoia]

https://pokepast.es/81bf209b1b2b638d

An offense team

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant stump]

The overall structure of the team is fine, I'd recommend running Incineroar over gouging for more bulk/synergy overall

then a lotta the mon sets are kinda weird, stuff like rilla really wants miracle seed or av

I'd rec taking them from her

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/

[wild sinew]

Flutter Mane and Rillaboom in particular need their EVs changed, bulk is crucial

[distant stump]

ye

[simple valve]

https://pokepast.es/f05749f68b7f8756

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[simple valve]

Want to make a scizor team so I decided it would best fit in rain team

[wild sinew]

Scizor unfortunately lacks enough going for it

and for future references, Pelipper Urshifu-R is much better than Politoed Kingler

[simple valve]

I mean it's only there to check flutter

[wild sinew]

Its just that there are better Flutter checks that arent useless into everything else

Rain usually runs Amoonguss and Scarf Urshifu, AV Rillaboom on occasions

[sand echo]

https://pokepast.es/a41579f6dee65260

[rapid quarry]

I am not cooking 🗣🗣🔥🔥
https://pokepast.es/720974661216cda6

[wild sinew]

Feel like you could go for a Volc centric team and a Kingambit Dragonite offensive team with this, which one are you looking for?

[wild sinew]

Indeed you're not!
Sand is raw

[sand echo]

probably a king drag offense

i might replace volc

[cerulean totem]

pao!!!

[wild sinew]

Hearthflame as a second redirector is the ideal Fire type over Volc then, and Iron Hands can probably be a Chien-Pao to go all in.

Hearthflame keeps offensive pressure with Chien Pao and helps Kingambit set up for free.

I'd also consider Scarf Urshifu-R in the Flutter Mane slot for synergy but if you're Kron Flutter Mane, go for a bulkier spread

[sand echo]

okay tysm!!

[neon sequoia]

https://pokepast.es/03ea5553b722d7fa

Reg F
I added some suggested changes and made sure to give offensive EVs to Torn so it can take out Ogerpon with Bleakwind and also add some extra burst damage

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

Looks good

I'd recommend Rain Dance Tornadus for itself, Landorus, Urshifu, and Rillaboom. Also move those wasted 5 Speed EVs into HP

Rillaboom would prefer Assault Vest here, helps it actually switch into things.

[neon sequoia]

Sounds good, what should I switch it's protect to?

I haven't used rilla in doubles before so I'm more or less just learning how to use it

Nvm I see Horsepower

Useful against incin probably

As well as gholdengo

Thanks for helping out, I'm gonna start testing the changes now

[waxen juniper]

High horsepower or u turn usually

Uturn is nice for doing like 35ish to other rillabooms, horsepower is nice for the coverage

[feral hemlock]

https://pokepast.es/4aef7c81369c9bd8 hi new doubles player here, is this any good ?

[fresh flicker]

I'd recommend using pre-existing teams on the recent tournaments to get a grip of the meta

[fresh flicker]

^

[mighty stone]

https://pokepast.es/d552280ce58c7128

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[mighty stone]

alr got this rated but i feel like i kinda want taunt somewhere

what yall think

[austere wasp]

well the slot for taunt is either on incin ( replacing knock off) / torn (replacing icy wind)

[mighty stone]

aight

i like icy wind here but i might swap that

[cerulean totem]

you kinda need fnock off on incin, but torn taunt can’t affect dark types or when farigiraf is on the field

also landorus instead of rilla @mighty stone

played a few games and tbf it is better

[mighty stone]

heard

just the smogon set?

[cerulean totem]

life orb set with sheer force, sub, protect, earth power and sludge bomb with tera poison

idk what the smogon set is

[mighty stone]

p sure thats it

[cerulean totem]

go max speed timid with 20evs in hp, 4 in defence and spdef and then the rest (i think 228??) in spatk

[mighty stone]

yea its 228

[cerulean totem]

aight my mental maths is still on point

[mighty stone]

the smogon set the same but with more hp evs

ill just keep icy wind and knock off taunt isnt completely necessary

[cerulean totem]

i think the spatk is a lot more valuable and the hp is all you need for some 76+ atl ogerpon calc i think

[cerulean totem]

what’s the tr matchup looking like then?

incin gholdengo?

actually that’s not terrible

[mighty stone]

yeah ive done decent vs tr

[cerulean totem]

https://pokepast.es/823e9dc64d0dc75d this is the team i played with for a little bit

may play a bit more

no wait i used tera fairly

*tera fairy dengo

[mighty stone]

i was thinking dengo would like a tera change yea

[inner hazel]

cressalia is a good supporting pokemon? I literally took the build almost straight from wolfey fluttermane sb does 17-20% which gets healed right back with lunar blessing. heatran (also on the wolfey team with cress) hits inc, fire ogerpon, fluttermane, and raikou paradox. in testing those were some of the Pokemon that hit my team the hardest flutter mane specifically why i have my flutter mane +speed so that I don ´ t have to pray on a speed tie. serperior after a lot of testing is a mon that quickly overwhelms bulky Pokemon and a lot more useful than i originally planned. i also don't know what you mean when you say i need more offense i have some of the hardest hitting physical and special attacker. (in ogerpon and flutter mane) the team i sent you i actually lost but it played so well i tried to remake it and changed some of the moves here is the new team https://pokepast.es/1717b6600a0eb357

after re reading that it sounds kinda aggressive i assure it was not meant to be that way 😅

[versed shell]

https://pokepast.es/52b8c5f55ca9882b did some testing with it today which went well, but i'd love to know if it could use any improvements

[wild sinew]

I think the main issue is that you already have supportive Pokemon, and adding more of them makes it hard to utilize the support effectively. You want Pokemon that can do damage like Urshifu-S/Chien-Pao, Raging Bolt, Landorus, Kingambit, and even Rillaboom

[inner hazel]

what other supporting mons do i have other than cresselia and inc?

[wild sinew]

Wellspring has tools w follow me and realistically that's all you need, if you were to go very offensive you could go Speed Booster Icy Wind Flutter Mane to help

[inner hazel]

in no situation would just follow me be ok what 😭 follow me is there for mainly if 1. ws is low and i need to sack 2. if a surging strikes is on the feild to utilize water absorb i use it other times but those are the main 2 reasons also fm is already +spe i tried icy wind and mane has always been to frail in my eyes to really be able to risk the turn and also mb dg and sb + protect is arguably the best set for him giving him icy wind would put him in a weird semi supportive but also frail pokemon that gets dropped by any supereffective move

[wild sinew]

Yes it's enough? You don't need a lot of support

[inner hazel]

if you can show me an example of that it may be able to sway me

[wild sinew]

The main thing about Flutter is that there aren't super effective moves

[inner hazel]

inc ???????

almost always has knock off

[wild sinew]

Out of every Pokemon there are like 2 relevant Pokemon that can hit you for super effective excluding opposing Flutter

You're part Fairy

[burnt surge]

Knock isn't SE on Flutter

you resist it if you Tera

[inner hazel]

nah im tera grass

spore

but wait im slow 😭

[burnt surge]

ah the default is tera fairy cuz broken flutter mane is broken

[inner hazel]

oh ik why i thought it was supereffective

because it hits for 60%

no tera and nothing on the feild

[burnt surge]

4 Atk Incineroar Knock Off vs. 124 HP / 140 Def Flutter Mane: 54-64 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

[inner hazel]

your using a very bulky flutter mane

[burnt surge]

it's the speed booster set from smog dex

the one that luna recommended

[inner hazel]

most common is 4hp 252 satk and sdef

[wild sinew]

252/252 Flutter is never how you run it as of right now yeah

You invest in bulk to live neutral hits and stick on the field

[inner hazel]

why though the strongest mons in the format are weak to either dgleam or shadow ball

never understood bulky flutter

i can see it in niche situations but everywhere else someone else can do it better

[burnt surge]

for this

[inner hazel]

or just dont keep in your flutt in that situation or tera fair dgleam

also that goes back to what i said right above yours just use someone else

[burnt surge]

so what is that someone else?

[inner hazel]

first thing that comes to mind although a little outdated is iron hands

fake out denies the inc in general and ice or fire punch denies tera and cc hits se

[burnt surge]

as a support Pokemon?

or like

[inner hazel]

or iron head cuz ur right tera fair is becoming more common on inc

[burnt surge]

its ability to offensively check a bunch of Pokemon

only thing that can sorta mimic flutter mane is gholdengo imo

but it's also hard to mimic

[inner hazel]

tornadus and amoongus also

[drifting onyx]

VGC24 Regulation F (Gen 9)

• Viability Rankings
• Speed Tiers
• Metagame Discussion Thread
• C&C Reservation Thread
• Discord
• Pokémon Showdown! Room

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[burnt surge]

the literal best Pokemon in the format

[inner hazel]

true but also its the best in the format in general a few years ago smeargle wasnt the best offensive mon in the game but it was the best

[winter gulch]

Smeargle was never the best

[inner hazel]

who was better than smeargle when it learned dark void?

[winter gulch]

Annoying and broken does not mean best

[inner hazel]

so flutterman isnt the best?

[winter gulch]

Anyways what they are trying to say is
Its better to hit twice for slightly weaker damage than hit once for slightly stronger damage

Which means running more bulk so you can actually hit twice

[inner hazel]

i mean its annoying the entire metagame is based around it and its pretty broken diverse learn set amazing type multitude of viable held items

[burnt surge]

well uh smeargle also has 0 bulk

and 0 offensive presence

and 0 speed

[inner hazel]

fluttermane by design is a glass cannon treat it as such give it a good support mon or another offensive mon and you run away with teh game

[winter gulch]

yes because 135 Special Defense is very glass cannon material

[inner hazel]

sucker punch or urshifu dark one tap it

[winter gulch]

exactly

which is why you run bulk

so it doesn't one tap it

[burnt surge]

156+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 147-174 (113 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

156+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Sucker Punch vs. 116 HP / 204 Def Flutter Mane: 109-130 (75.1 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[winter gulch]

252+ Atk Tera Dark Urshifu Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 142-168 (108.3 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tera Dark Urshifu Sucker Punch vs. 116 HP / 204 Def Flutter Mane: 104-124 (71.7 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah I was going to say, you can actually hit twice with bulk!

[inner hazel]

its vgc

if it only survives 2 hits its pointless

if you REALLY need it of the feild double it or double spread move

[winter gulch]

by taking two hits you force them to double your flutter to kill it

which opens up the opportunity for your other mon to do something

or maybe you have a fake out mon on the other side which forces a 1v1, in which living is important

[inner hazel]

but if you run bulky flutter it is inherently less threatning meaning you arent FORCED to do it

[winter gulch]

that extra 5% damage you are dealing from having more Special Attack is not worth it

[inner hazel]

send me a bulky flutter build rq

[winter gulch]

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/flutter-mane/vgc24-regulation-f/

[inner hazel]

spe boost support?

1st off the inc that was already in my second calc slot from an old calc does 70-82 and its an assult vest with 20 attack evs

the goat bulk mane is doing a whopping 20

but holdup ill get the most common urshifu dark build via pikalytics

[winter gulch]

different builds are for different teams

there's literally a specs Flutter set right below it

[inner hazel]

but we arent talking about that set

ik that set is good its what the meta game is based around

that and ogerpon

i think were all in agreence that specs mane is prolly the best satk mon in the game rn

[winter gulch]

I just scrolled up a bit

Luna just said remove speed for Bulk

what are you even arguing here

[inner hazel]

reply to it rq

ion feel like scrolling up 😭

[winter gulch]

most Pao are Adamant anyways you're not even outspeeding anything by running that much

and like your booster speed doesn't need to be that fast

[inner hazel]

yk what types are supereffective against flutter mane right?

[winter gulch]

like even most ursh in tailwind aren't hitting near that number

[winter gulch]

physical moves yeah

[inner hazel]

ghost moves

yk who else is threating and ghost type

fluttermane that think they are so fast the dont need booster speed

[inner hazel]

r u talking abt this?

[winter gulch]

I am just talking about in general but I'm assuming you are refering to this team?

[inner hazel]

im refering to to what?

like when im talking about fluttermane im talking abt flutter on that team?

no

[winter gulch]

This channel is for team rating, not vgc discussion

like if you have a team I'll rate it or fix your flutter spread or whatever

but I'm not here to explain to you why bulk flutter is better than 252/252/4 or whatever else if its completely unrelated to a team

[inner hazel]

the original discussion sprouted because she said i should make it bulk instead yeah

and then it kinda evolved

your right but 1 more thing a 252 adamant band ohkos the bulky flutter you sent me

s-punch

[wild sinew]

With Tera Dark?

[winter gulch]

you know that urshifu is not the only attacker in this format right

also if you're going to refer to calcs we'd prefer you actually send the clac

[wild sinew]

I'm happy to go over it deeper with them in another channel

[winter gulch]

ok cool, #comp-general-2 is probably a solid spot, or we can shoot an invite to smogonvgc discord if you want

Also here's something that could be helpful
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/vgc-regulation-f-speed-tiers.3737294/

[inner hazel]

i think your team looks semi t-room semi tailwind, but it seems more tailwind focused if i were you i would drop the t room as a whole. But if you like it and want to keep it i would change some speed evs either you dont need much because you have t room. Or you dont need as many as you have because you have tailwind. Alternatively the team is so divided that your opponent can prolly tell what your back 2 mons are by what you lead with. i.e. leading with tornadus your opponent can resonable assume you didnt also bring farigaraf because its for t room. They can also assume your ursaluna bm isnt there for the same reasons.

[inner hazel]

id be down also im he/him sorry

[inner hazel]

no but other than urshifu water and ogerpon he is the most common physical attacker

[inner hazel]

no

[winter gulch]

yeah you can bulk train to live those too

especially waterpon

[wild sinew]

Got it ty

[distant stump]

What happened here lmao

[burnt surge]

discussion abt why you don't just run max max on broken flutter mane

[distant stump]

all that disscusion for that??

Isen't the reason

already on the dex ev spread thing

I mean its just more return on investment on defense

[versed shell]

of it working? i have 2 2-0s i can share

[inner hazel]

oh no not that lol were talking abt fluttermane builds in comp 2

[versed shell]

oh my b lol

you pinged my paste so that's why

but i'll def see what i can do, i think i'll try just tw offense

[cerulean totem]

people look at pikalytics/showdown reccomended and go straight with it without doing calcs

[radiant haven]

Heyyy can someone give me tips for uprading this team for vgc?? Please and thank you!!https://pokepast.es/b5b37bd9c8c685d9

[wild sinew]

Unfortunately team would take too many changes and pretty much a complete overhaul. This is because Meowscarada and Great Tusk are pretty bad into the meta and kind of outclassed.

Corviknight is niche but when used doesn't really pair well with more offensive Pokemon like Chi-Yu imo

Would recommend using or taking inspiration from already built teams, here are the most recent regional results.
https://cut-explorer.stalruth.dev/regional-dortmund

[radiant haven]

okayyy thank you so muchh 😄

[versed shell]

https://pokepast.es/d4ec9a8a8a211eb4 did some changes to make it a full tw team, but ik there are improvements that can be made

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[austere wasp]

Sludge waves risky

[wild sinew]

Lando I moveset should be redone, you need Protect for positioning and Earth Power for riskless single target STAB. Sludge Bomb is the preferred Poison move as its stronger (allowing for chance to ohko Waterpon) and you don't hit your allies.

Urshifu would much rather have Sucker Punch than Bulk Up, it's a bit squishy and won't find enough turns to make good use of it.

Iron Crown is just bad without Indeedee, here it's outclassed by Gholdengo which can take advantage of Incineroar and Wellspring with Nasty Plot. Good offensive core w Lando and Urshifu because you threaten the Pokemon trying to Tera Fairy and Lando helps remove Steel resists.

Otherwise team looks good

[versed shell]

tyvm, got pretty similar advice from vgc cord

wait i realized i forgot to ev urshifu😭

what are the reccomended evs for the bear?

[wild sinew]

252/252 works as you're Sash

[rapid quarry]

https://pokepast.es/d62f9c589fffb78e
Probably isnt good but I just want tips for improvements

[topaz edge]

https://pokepast.es/ea58407887211e24 Made a rain/tailwind team with archaludon and calm mind raging bolt as the center pieces. Amoongus with clear smog over pollen puff to deter any setups and i figured the poison stab sorta helps out with ogerpon variants. i forgot to change the teras but they should be Arcaludon steel, pelipper steel, amoonguss water, rilla grass, urshi water, and raging fairy.

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[radiant haven]

Hey guys what do u think of this team???https://pokepast.es/9c9eda0e83b6aad9

[north tree]

Change ursh to scarf, amoong to incin (the grass type overlap is a bit weird), pelipper to tera ghost/stellar and tbolt for protect on raging bolt

[north tree]

Way too much speed investment on the raging bolt otherwise this is just a meta team.

[radiant haven]

okkk thank you so muchhh :DDD

[topaz edge]

Why Incin over amoong? Ive had people say double grass isnt bad so im just curious as to the reasoning there?

[cerulean totem]

i disagree, the bolt evs seem to be fine

[cerulean totem]

scarf is a change i’d definitely make. if you do change to incin, which wouldn’t be a bad idea for better type synergy, plus intimidate and stuff support, go tera ghost safety goggles for amoonguss mu (yes, i didn’t reccomend tera grass for once)

i think the rilla could switch for safety goggles incin though, and amoonguss change it’s set to include pollen puff. you can get rid of protect for clear smog if you want to keep it (wouldn’t be terrible)

yeah i’d reccomend switch rilla for incin and change amoonguss moves

[wild sinew]

I think Rillaboom if the Grass type that should be replaced
Incin allows for more consistent set up and a good FWG core allowing for consistent pivoting.

Amoonguss is crucial on Archaludon rain as one of the few viable Fairy resists and access to Pollen Puff to heal it up and make it unkillable
Wouldn't say you really need to deter set up with this team

[rugged glen]

https://pokepast.es/1fbbfe048ba82290
finding no use/idk how to use rillaboom and heatran
shud i jus switch pokes what pokes do u suggest?? i usually lead with arch peli. sometimes lead with archuladon and lando and switch to pelipper immediately to catch ppl offguard if they choose to atk arch with ground move or just rain electroshot

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant stump]

You want Ogerpon-W and Incin instead of rilla/heatran, both benefit from the rain much more and provide more to the team

I highly recommend you run weather ball over protect on peli, as well as tera ghost

[rugged glen]

ohh alr

[rugged glen]

peli already has weatherball

teraghost sure

when to use it

[distant stump]

sorry not weather ball

wide guard

[rugged glen]

ohh

against sun teams??

[distant stump]

nah just in general its great utility

if you dont run wide guarad

theres really no reason to run peli over tornadus

[rugged glen]

i see thanks

[cerulean totem]

https://pokepast.es/f1341fc9c7c0de1d suggestions? - specifically is there a good bronzong set this format and what about the various evs

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean totem]

also is there some glaring weakness i fail to see?

[austere wasp]

a good bronzong set i know is iron defense + body press

[winter gulch]

+gyro ball trick room

[cerulean totem]

i felt like iron defence set was a little to setup-y for an archaludon team

but i didn’t see any good support or offence moves apart from it

[austere wasp]

yeah well i would suggest changing bronzong to a lando i

[cerulean totem]

nooo

i thought about that but bronzong is cool

[austere wasp]

i dont really know what bronzong does except for that really haha

skill swap seems useless

[cerulean totem]

ik, i have no clue what to do with the moves. reseting rain into sun teams, intimidate and getting levitate onto archudon is it really

[austere wasp]

it can learn rain dance fwiw

[distant stump]

Bronzong is just kinda mid, its worse kommo oh and even then kommo is pretty ass.
I highly recommending switching to Landorus I, its just much better in that slot

Also, some of your evs, specifically ogerpon-w and archa could use an update

[drifting onyx]

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/ogerpon-wellspring/vgc24-regulation-f

[cerulean totem]

nooo i like bronzong

[drifting onyx]

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/archaludon/vgc24-regulation-f

[distant stump]

I rec the sets from here

[cerulean totem]

are you sure it’s not usable with this format

[distant stump]

I mean

Its usable, but in most situations its kinda just outclassed

If I had to use bronzong

https://pokepast.es/6df4deb3155bb477

it would probs replace kommo here

or somethign like that

[cerulean totem]

sigh

[distant stump]

there were a few bronzong teams in utrecth you can look at too

[cerulean totem]

fair enough

i felt like it would have been cool as a lano-i answer

[winter gulch]

Aldrich gave you the answer

Iron Defense Body Press Trick Room Gyro Ball

[distant stump]

Problem with that

VGC isen't a 1v1 game

walling lando means squat if it can just hit your partners

theres other mons like Corv that are pretty good but they do other things too

[winter gulch]

its fine as a tr setter, but its just not great with stuff like ursh being on 2/3 of teams rn

[distant stump]

Ye

At least with corv you hit urshifu for SE and have decent coverage and support, and kommo just resists both urshifu

flying is really good coverage

[winter gulch]

not to be that person

but that team would be really solid if you swapped waterpon for ursh and bronzong for flutterr

or a change along those lines

[distant stump]

Nah Wpon lando is good there

Water pon has more flexiblity is than urshifu, even though i personally like urshifu more

personal preference

you really need lando on a rain team

[winter gulch]

that's fair

[winter gulch]

on that one arch team its fine

[distant stump]

its like the linchpin to the entire strat, theres no win con into tons of things without it

problem with arch amoon incin stuff is that its a slow burn core, not so focused on big moments but positioning and stuff

lando is the one piece that can threaten tons of mons that either can just set up or abuse the lack of pressure

[winter gulch]

idt that's a problem, especially in the slower meta

and the main goal with that team is just to make arch unkillable as a wincon

[distant stump]

I mean yeah

but archa at the start is pretty not threatening

you need this offensive piece to put pressure on your opponents

If you dont have it, opponents can just blast through archaludon without any pressure

Landorus puts pressure on opponents, forces them to respect it and archa at the same time

gives you wiggle room and an alternate win con

[winter gulch]

the other wincon is just incin guss let's be honest that wins so many games if you're good

[distant stump]

Incin guss doesen't win games, it puts you in a position to win games

archa wins games, lando gets u in a position to win games

kinda

amoon incin supports that

[winter gulch]

I know you're trying to apply some sense here but low key incin guss on its own wins so many games its crazy
Like just on any team really

[distant stump]

-_-

this was a terrible analogy

I mean, amoon incin is good but its not a win con

amoonguss maybe

[cerulean totem]

i get all your points and yeah what you’re saying is fair it’s just outclassed

but for my team wpon is better than ursh

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/49b36f432208a14e how is this team

[cerulean totem]

first thing i see is no spore immunities

also what do you guys think of nasty plot lando? prob not good but i’m tempted

[wild sinew]

Incineroar is better off with Safety Goggles here, Amoonguss is one of Archaludon's scariest matchups and you want to be thoroughly prepared.

That brings me to my next switch, one of Flutter or Landorus for Amoonguss. The Fairy resist and Pollen Puff healing are mandatory so Archaludon can function at its best.

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/296a52f8cfb85c2a what about now

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

This is good yes

[narrow dock]

What about this version

https://pokepast.es/712e483f597f3dfd

[snow bluff]

any suggestions on this team? https://pokepast.es/a985acc15f702207

[wild sinew]

This is also great

[wild sinew]

I don't think Entei does much here, a more supportive Fire type like Incineroar has less anti synergy with rain and helps Archaludon and Raging Bolt sweep.

Milotic is a pretty weak Pokemon that doesn't abuse rain as well, a momentum sink on a team that already beats Incin so hard, nothing is actually hurt by Intimidate so you might as well go for Scarf Urshifu-R, puts on so much pressure.

Pollen Puff on Amoonguss is mandatory for Archaludon synergy, Clear Smog isn't necessary as you already have a pretty good Dondozo matchup.

Archaludon needs Assault Vest to better take hits from Flutter Mane, and without Entei, you can use AV Archaludon freely.

Consider making Tornadus a bulkier variant to more consistently get up Tailwind and Rain.

[gilded bay]

I saw a gouging fire team, tested it out, and I wanted a pokemon that could do speed control for the team, just wondering what pokemon should it be? https://pokepast.es/5984ef17b6305ad4

[feral hemlock]

https://pokepast.es/0182a7a69a5631f6 any suggestions for this team ?

[inner hazel]

is perish song any good on mane? its amazing when your opponent only has 2 mons left but like is it worth giving up the move slot?

[inner hazel]

i would run a tailwind rain dance bleakwind set on tornadus as rain is good with bleakwind and ogerpon also prankster tailwind fills your speed control needs

if your still having speed issues icy wind mane is always a good option

[gilded bay]

thanks ill think about that

[cerulean totem]

depends on if you’re very setup weak (eg kommo-o, archaludon, dondozo etc)

[cerulean totem]

i had a team like this with icy wind chien pao, i thought it was pretty cool and it was good as well

[gilded bay]

never knew chien pao could be used with icy wind

ill consider that probably

[cerulean totem]

i mean it learns it… not many people use it but i think it has potential on a lot of teams, such as your own. remember to go -SpDef nature to get more damage off icy wind (since you’re dropping to two special moves anyway)

[neon sequoia]

Im not a rater but I noticed that you're running heat crash, from what I've seen Temper Flare is a lot more popular

[cerulean totem]

heat crash is better (more consistent)

also you don’t have to be a rater to give tips, as long as you know what you’re saying!

[neon sequoia]

Ah

[cerulean totem]

hell, i’m not a rater and rate every team i see

[winter gulch]

also rating teams for fun is often how you get the experience to become a rater if that's something you're interested in

icy wind pao is really niche and you need to have a really good reason to run it over 3 physical attacks imo

[winter gulch]

temper flare is definitely not more popular, you need the immediate extra BP from heat crash

[cerulean totem]

it fits the team well though

he doesn’t need sacred sword imo

or if he doesn’t like missing icicle crash then instead of that

[winter gulch]

I don't think that core particularly needs the speed

3 attack is quite fine there, you could even run stellar pao if you really wanted to

[cerulean totem]

true but they wanted speed control

[winter gulch]

also pao definitely needs sacred sword there, you need to hit incin

[cerulean totem]

i thought hhp was enough

with ivy cudgle

eh you’re probably right

[neon sequoia]

Ive seen it to punish fakeout but I understand Heat crash. Weight based moves are always sketchy to me so I dont personally use it

[wild sinew]

That would usually be Porygon2
The first 5 looks good

[spark salmon]

https://pokepast.es/09a666741438769f

How's my Serperior Team?

(Got some help from another Server im in)

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[neon sequoia]

This team is pretty good, Why tera poison tho? (This isnt me being against it, I'm just interested in the matchup)

[spark salmon]

I just needed a defensive typing or a way to get rid of any flutter users

If possible

[neon sequoia]

Ohh

Fair

Ive seen water, Fire, and grass funnily enough

Fire to resist fire attacks, water to resist and beat fire, and I've seen grass to boost Leaf Storm

[north tree]

• 5 special attackers doesn't seem rather good, Assault Vest is the best item in the format and pokemon like ogerpon wellspring and flutter mane are already well suited to take special hits. Not that your team can't deal with them but try to diversify and add another strong physical attacker.

• The serperior set being lefties feels odd on such a fast paced team, surely even sitrus would have more value here? Tera stellar should also be considered as the tera type, poison blast only hits terastallized flutter which stellar blast also hits while raising your spa like leaf storm.

• Beat up whimsicott looks nice to proc toxic debris but in practice you almost never click it and whimsicott adds a third grass type. The set you have is doing nothing effective that torn can't replicate so run that instead.

• Chiyu or bloodmoon can be replaced for an urshifu single strike imo they feel kinda off, bloodmoon likes tailroom teams a lot better than it's currently on and chiyu is counterintuitive seeing as serperior needs to stay for long periods of time on the field and your sweeper not being able to click protect also gives up synergy with glare. Urshifu rapid strike could also form a consistent rain mode with rain dance Tornadus and ogerpon.

I had other suggestions in mind but those would be me actually building for you and probably burning the food a bit

[spark salmon]

. . .at this point I'm not questioning it anymore, since you're like the 5th or 6th person to say "Bloodmoon and Chiyu are off-putting for the team" or something along the lines

Plus you've already "burned the food" the moment you said the last thing

[north tree]

Fair enough, ursh single is definitely better than ursh rapid on the team

[spark salmon]

🤦 not what I meant, but whatever

[north tree]

If it's a serperior team they don't fit, they would be fine on anything non serperior

But as you put it as a serperior team, I made the assumption that serperior was irreplaceable

[spark salmon]

I still haven't beaten the ID yet..so I can't get ursh yet

[neon sequoia]

https://pokepast.es/ed7c4c2d368edab1 I wanted to make a hyper offense sun team. So I made this.

[narrow dock]

How about if I replace flutter with farig

[wild sinew]

I think it's worse
TR doesn't work as well with any of your Pokemon

[spark salmon]

Updated my Serperior team, how's it look?(Didn't know what Tera to give Ursh)

https://pokepast.es/5ee72dbe3d465466

[eager idol]

I've been trying to make Hisuian Decidueye work. I'm inexperienced in vgc but I did my best. I've been testing it on Showdown. How does it look so far?
https://pokepast.es/28c5163dfc3202b7

[north tree]

Trick room > beat up on whims and either dark or poison tera ursh

[spark salmon]

. . . If I have Tailwind, wouldn't Trick Room defeat the purpose?

[north tree]

No, tailroom is already an effective archetype, trick room helps reverse vs opposing trick room teams and flip the tables on opposing tailwind teams

This ensures your sweepers like bloodmoon and serperior always have the ability to attack first and your opponent has to guess as to which mode of speed control you go with

[spark salmon]

Huh..

[cerulean totem]

torn over whimsicott with tailwind and raindance, more bulky evs on serperior + tera stellar, i’d personally go sash ursh but i’m not that good at using urshifu single so idk

also i’d make oger to outspeed lando-i, (switching to jolly should worl here), as it’s rly weak to lando i

i mean what isn’t weak to lando these days

[spark salmon]

. . .

I'm not even surprised at this point anymore...

[cerulean totem]

https://pokepast.es/d9d1e80d6d5b9493 made this in 3 seconds, what could j improve?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

This looks good

[cerulean totem]

what abt the mirror and like hard tr

i’m about to start playing with it but i don’t want to have like 10 bad matchups

[wild sinew]

If your Gouging is faster you can just go straight into it
If they're faster you can use P2 mode

Hard TR you also use P2, reversing their tr fucks them up and they can't exactly ko you, Amoonguss is pre good against most of their team, Flutter is an effective wincon

[cerulean totem]

mmm

what about amoonguss (i hate amoonguss)

no super effective damage + only 2 immunes

snarl is nice on gouging for lando and flutter tho

[wild sinew]

Amoon is a pre bad mu for all Gouging Fire teams ig

Burning Bulwark is a move of all time and it can switch in on your mons

You utilize Follow Me Pon there

[cerulean totem]

i hate the amoongsus man

[wild sinew]

Missed this but really recommend Heat Crash, you're going to ohko Flutter at +1 anyway and you always have the P2 Gambit mode.

[cerulean totem]

thought it was techy but ig not

actually i’ll play around a bit

[odd osprey]

https://pokepast.es/d9aa217470369d20

This is my first attempt at building a non-rain team, tried it out a bit got some success. I'm curious for any way I could improve or optimize it.

[wild sinew]

Okidogi would rather Gunk Shot as the OHKOs on Ogerpon and Rillaboom are always worth it, also Knock Off over Close Combat to utilize Tera Dark and hit Gholdengo who otherwise walls you.

I think the Corviknight is in particular out of place here, too passive to abuse Tailwind and you don't have the support to help it set up. You would much rather smth like Landorus to hit hard and the Offensive synergy with Flutter Mane and Chi-Yu

Would recommend looking at the Smogon Strategy Dex for sample EVs, Flutter Mane for example needs bulk to function effectively.

[odd osprey]

Thanks man, I'll try them out

[heady latch]

Hello there! I am interested in building a VGC-Team around Vaporeon. My first impression was, that Raichu-Sup with Fake Out, Surf and Electro Web did a nice Job but superoffensive Meta-Teams are just too much for my buddies.
Is anyone experienced in using Vape? Or are there maybe clear checks for Urshifu Dark, Flutter and Ogerpon?

I know, this team will be no tournament-stuff, but Vape is my favourite since Gen 1. And I would love to wash the ladder with it away.
The current set is: Scald, Ice Beam, Calm Mind and Acid Armor.
It really needs support and can shine in late game. To pressure during the first turns is really important, so Vape can come in when my opponent is distracted by my other mons. I first tried out with Scarf-Annihilape and Greninja (Water-Shuriken then Rage Fist) what was funny but in the end Annihilape was the match winner.
I'll be thankful for any ideas and tips for brainstorming.

[burnt surge]

this is for already completed teams, if you want to have vgc discussion, I'd ask this question in #comp-general or #comp-general-2 (we have plenty of vgc players here) or the dedicated smogon vgc discord

[heady latch]

Thanks! Will use the open forum

[drifting onyx]

VGC24 Regulation F (Gen 9)

• Sample Teams
• Viability Rankings
• Speed Tiers
• Metagame Discussion Thread
• C&C Reservation Thread
• VGCPastes Repository
• Discord
• Pokémon Showdown! Room

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.