VGC Rates

[cerulean totem]

iron valiant isn’t very good

but if you would run it on a leam like this, lorb is not the best item

also a bit comfused by chi-yu, doesn’t seem to have crazy synergy or help in any major matchups and you overlap fire types with arcanine

and spare 4 evs on def for chien pao 😭

[acoustic slate]

What does valiant even do in vgc

[sand minnow]

https://pokepast.es/b0b27343adb34ab2

Entei has snarl instead of tblast and I’m also actively trying to replace flutter but can’t think of much

[fair marlin]

Yeah changed it to Dazzling gleam and booster energy

Vacuum wave dropped for dazzling and item swapped to booster

[hybrid summit]

I think Latios is a cool pokemon https://pokepast.es/1224a52fff9fc62c

[fair marlin]

I’m using it as a situational choice so against espeed dnite I have quick guard for example

[robust moon]

https://pokepast.es/26fc794a0378e1bc tried making a sun team

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

Main things you want to keep in mind are

• Torkoal is better with TR comps
• Flutter Chi Yu is better with Tailwind comps
• Gouging Fire isn't an offensive mon and is bad on sun

[robust moon]

any suggestions for pokemon i should replace with?

[wild sinew]

Hard to do that without pretty much recreating the team

But if you want Torkoal, try and build around Indeedee or Farigiraf with other Trick Room Pokemon and probably a Flutter Mane
If you want Chi-Yu, go for a more offensive Sunny Day Tornadusteam

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fair marlin]

Please someone help me here I’m practically considering calling it quits altogether at this point this is the 5th comp today that has failed

https://pokepast.es/64f2d960cc8d3848

[distant stump]

Besides the fact that this is kinda bad

If you play 5 different teams in 1 day

Of course you will lose more

[fair marlin]

They’re test plays

[distant stump]

as you aren't getting used to the playstyles of each

[distant stump]

yes then give them a proper test

[fair marlin]

If I see a big weakness I drop it

[distant stump]

your also probarly tilting

[fair marlin]

Shutdown by encore, drop it

[distant stump]

Dont build like that

[fair marlin]

Shutdown by intimidate, drop it

[distant stump]

Dont build to counter other stuff

That way you will always open up new weaknesses

[fair marlin]

There is 0 point in using the team if it gets shutdown by one move or one ability

[distant stump]

build around making a good team into most sitatuions

thats just wrong

[fair marlin]

No it’s not

[distant stump]

if you lose to intimidate like yeah whatever remake it

if you lose to dondozo or something, but the team is otherwise really good

I just accept it

like this reg, your just going to have a bad MU into 10-20% of the meta

work on making a good mu into the rest

[fair marlin]

What is a good mu for it then?

Cause I am at my limit with failure

I just want 1 good result

[distant stump]

I really really really recommend using another team

to start with

before working on your own one

or use a mon that you like and know is good

that way you understand properly how to build good teams

seriously

[fair marlin]

I refuse to use rentals

They’re not fun

Where’s the joy in winning using someone else’s work?

[distant stump]

I get that mindset, I diden't really learn with rentals either

but I played for a very long time

before actually getting decent

[fair marlin]

I came back to competitive this gen

7 and 8 competitive was horrendous

[distant stump]

your gonna accept that you will be playing with sub optimal teams for a while

if your like really new

[fair marlin]

I played competitive in XY/ORAS

[distant stump]

work on other stuff instead of just changing the team

[distant stump]

that was 10 years ago

just like, work on other stuff then if you dont want to use rentals, and keep playing

you'll slowly get better

[fair marlin]

I want to make a good team now rather than later

Cause level grinding is tedious as hell after completing the storyline

[distant stump]

Then keep playing and working on teambuilding, its not gonna happen overnight

teambuilding is really hard most of my teams are pretty mid

takes a while to get something good

[fair marlin]

Nah I’ll take the easy path, fuck competitive at this point

[distant stump]

What easy path?

[fair marlin]

Not trying anymore

I’ve gone through 30 different teams in 2 weeks none of them working

[distant stump]

have you considered its not a teambuilding problem, its a playstyle problem. Work on that instead of switching teams a lot

not trying to be mean here

[fair marlin]

How is it a play style problem?

[fair marlin]

I don’t exactly get what you mean

If you mean the play style isn’t fitting me, I’m trying different things people suggest I tried Chi-Yu + Flutter, it doesn’t work

[distant stump]

not playstyle

but like

[fair marlin]

I tried Tornshifu it doesn’t work

[distant stump]

your generally not good

at the game

[fair marlin]

Well screw you too

[distant stump]

not trying to be mean im serious

[fair marlin]

Shut up I’m done

[distant stump]

like play more

you will get better

alright

[native knoll]

https://pokepast.es/b3f90917bfbc51d2 hi what do you think about it?

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

Swords Dance Urshifu isn't very good because of how many faster threats there are rn and how often it's forced to switch out or Tera, Scarf is currently the strongest set and fits well with the pivot heavy Incineroar Rillaboom duo.

On that you'd want to replace Clefairy since it's providing a lot less now, this slot is pretty flexible though, speed control in Tornadus and Farigiraf can make the team shoot off hyper offensive, Farigiraf can be used for a bulkier spe control Pokemon, and Chien Pao/Landorus/Ogerpon-H exist as great offensive threats, good offensive synergy with the rest of the team.

[native knoll]

so do you think that ogerpon fire (with sw) is better that urshi rs(with sw)?

[wild sinew]

Swords Dance works but I'd suggest Follow Me honestly

[native knoll]

i agree with you but if a put it on clefary i have a bad match up against calm mind raging

[lost phoenix]

https://pokepast.es/a258f2d8b627ceef @wild sinew

ive mainly had a bad time vs glimmora, but idk how to fix that exactly

[cerulean totem]

just accept it

[north tree]

Just go Lando I over harc

Murders glimm

[icy urchin]

https://pokepast.es/f87c27a5d7da6fd3 i've made a team that revolves around azumarill being decent into the meta (especially both urshis), any thoughts?

[lost phoenix]

That makes me more paoentei weak than i like

[fair marlin]

hey, just wanted to apologize for snapping at you last night, that wasn’t cool on my part, even though I was frustrated I shoulda handled it better.

[north tree]

Paotei isn't particularly relevant you can afford a bad matchup into it

[fair marlin]

How’s this? I decided to try an expanding force comp
https://pokepast.es/cd76c0899e06899b

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fair marlin]

I have found some success using Valiant here

[wild sinew]

Hearthflame can just redirect stuff for Flutter to Moonblast it ig

[wild sinew]

What insertable said ideally, only a single Entei made day 2 at Knox and it wasn't paired with Chien-Pao, I think affording a loss to it is okay

[lost phoenix]

fair enough

[fair marlin]

I would prefer water for that cause it cancels RS-Urshifu

[lost phoenix]

do i use sub lando here just in case?

[wild sinew]

Probably, I don't like Sandsear w/ out rain and it doesn't seem to be necessary

[native knoll]

i have tera steel on urshi

[wild sinew]

That's fine, Hearthflame can redirect Thunderclaps though helping with the match up

[native knoll]

but dragon pulse no

[wild sinew]

You have enough time to get Flutter in position to fire off Moonblasts or switch in Shifu to CC with the time it takes to set up and ohko Hearthflame

[fair marlin]

Does iron crown look okay? Valiant is there solely because I’m testing a few shenanigans to see what I can come up with

https://pokepast.es/cd76c0899e06899b

[native knoll]

i can beat flutter with rilla and it can't beat raging right?

[wild sinew]

Right

[wild sinew]

Recommend 252/252 if you want SpA Booster Crown, and Shadow Ball over Protect on Flutter Mane.

The 5 look fine otherwise

[fair marlin]

Alright 252 speed and SpA?

Or go bulky with HP instead of speed?

[wild sinew]

Yeah

[fair marlin]

Should I keep Tera water?

[wild sinew]

Yes

[fair marlin]

The only ones my team seems to be never able to get around are Tera grass Entei and Tera grass Heatran

[native knoll]

so my team is good

[fair marlin]

@wild sinew so if I’m unsure what to choose into a team what would be the go-to?

https://pokepast.es/1a9396194fc71b92

[wild sinew]

Tornadus Urshifu Indeedee Iron Crown

[fair marlin]

Aight, and which pair do I lead with?

[wild sinew]

Tornadus Urshifu if you're completely unsure

[fair marlin]

Got it

[fair marlin]

I need a 6th team member, would Final Gambit Ape be good?

[autumn osprey]

hi so
regi and weezing are pretty fun and i love my grassy seed rilla cause it beats urshi and ogrespring plus the worry seed for regi
ability sheild urshi cause it has a nice ability and i can put in next to weezing
things i dont like are idk what to do with the lando spot but i need the intim and the scarf speed is pretty necessary cause my team doesnt have much speed control
anotther thing is urshi is kinda slow without scarf and cant switch into stuff very well so its awkward

any advice?

[wild sinew]

You have 6 members though

[autumn osprey]

(100atk on weezing looks weird but i can ohko offensive flutter and ogrepons with it :)

[fair marlin]

Oh does valiant work here?

[wild sinew]

I assumed you didn't want to change it

It's better than Annihilape here though

[fair marlin]

Oh cool

[fair marlin]

Keep the build or should I do something else for the moves?

[wild sinew]

Moonblast or support move over Tera Blast s9 it isn't just a worse Iron Crown

[fair marlin]

Got it

[wild sinew]

And then you're Focus Sash anyway so youre free to use an offensive Tera like Fairy or Psychic

[fair marlin]

Should I use Destiny Bond or nah?

[autumn osprey]

what tera should i give a flutter

it has sash and dazzling gleam, shadowball, thunderbolt, and protect

[wild sinew]

Pretty much always Fairy and Moonblast over Tbolt

[autumn osprey]

looses so much coverage tho

[wild sinew]

Electric isn't a very good offensive type ig

[autumn osprey]

but im allergic to ogrepon welspring

wait thats neutral anyway

urshis and tornadi are mean to me

[fair marlin]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2056503720

Dude forfeit after my first turn

[autumn osprey]

that was something

[fair marlin]

Ikr was pretty funny tho

[fair marlin]

Sorry for late response but I’m curious what support move(s) would you recommend?

[autumn osprey]

Any advice

[wild sinew]

Destiny Bond, Wide Guard, Encore, Disable

[fair marlin]

Which do you think is better?

[wild sinew]

Moonblast / Wide Guard imo

[fair marlin]

Aight moon blast

[cerulean totem]

https://pokepast.es/3df68b703e308b9a thoughts?

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

P2 makes the team too passive imo, you don't need 2 trick room setters

Youre better off with a fast mode in Urshifu-R, which partners well with Ting Lu and Farigiraf, as well as completes a FWG

[cerulean totem]

good point thanks

[cerulean totem]

https://pokepast.es/6c39474871838edf also i accidentally laddered 300 elo with this but it doesn’t seem fully optimised to me, what could i change?

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean totem]

it’s not particularly good, most of the sets seem niche and it would intuitively seem like your team would like the rain but there is no setter

if i were a bit more brutal it’s very bad

[cerulean totem]

why did he shadowball there 😭

[wild sinew]

I think making Ogerpon-H a Follow Me set or replacing Gholdengo with Amoonguss are your major changes, hard to support two forms of set up without redirection.

Team is really well built though, my other nitpick would be a bulkier Urshifu-R but thats it.

[cerulean totem]

yeah bulkier urshi would be a good change

however, the double fake out makes the double support very easy to pull off, and i find that in many games by threatening with two setup options, opponents are forced to counter one and not the other. all you need is one spare turn and the game can be over in your favour. perhaps having follow me over protect on ogerpon may be a worthwhile change, but protect is very very valuable as you know

also i didn’t want to overlap grass types more than i need to with amoonguss, an earlier version had it and i was having trouble with the overlaping weaknesses

[wild sinew]

It might seem that way but it's hard to imagine considering both set up options are answered well enough by Incineroar, Landorus, other fire types, and to an extent, Ranging Bolt.

Btw use Spiky Shield, missed this in my first look.

That's fair, didn't take into account Rillaboom which you'd be forced to change when going for Amoonguss.

Double Fake Out should work well to support at least one set up option so I can see Landorus or Flutter Mane in one of the slots

[cerulean totem]

oh yeah spiky shield forgot

maybe flutter would work better for gholdengo

i will see

[fair marlin]

So how would Gholdengo do on this team?

https://pokepast.es/f0b023b2a3298546

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fair marlin]

Valiant is feeling a bit TOO situational tbh

It legitimately has only come out once in like 30 or 40 battles

That one time being to destiny bond the opponent Ursaluna

[wild sinew]

I think I like Hearthflame 6th

[fair marlin]

If I may ask in what situations would Valiant work? Or is Dbond a powerhouse kinda all it has going for it?

[wild sinew]

Trying to figure that out myself but probably as a support with Encore Disable helping set up a Pokemon

[fair marlin]

At least Disable doesn’t have the accuracy of dookie anymore

[fair marlin]

Btw any particular reason Ogerpon over Gholdengo?

[wild sinew]

Better partner for Urshifu and helps threaten Kingambit and Rillaboom, which screw over Psyspam.

[fair marlin]

If I were to use Gholdengo who would I drop? If anyone

[wild sinew]

Flutter Mane

[fair marlin]

Really? That’s legitimately surprising

[fair marlin]

Would the team still function ok with Gholdengo over flutter?

[wild sinew]

I think worse since you already have a steel type but it's the best place Ghold fits

[fair marlin]

Darn it

2 turn victory

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2057407219

[fair marlin]

Clobbered this dude

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2057415454

[cerulean totem]

@fair marlin i’ll try and see if i can find a good team for iron valiant

it has lots of good support i’m sure i can find something

shit this thing gets so much

[north tree]

@wild sinew someone has mentioned the VALIANT

[wild sinew]

Valiant

[cerulean totem]

have i summoned some sort of demon?

[wild sinew]

Potentially

[cerulean totem]

ruh roh

[cerulean totem]

@wild sinew https://pokepast.es/22a595efe414cafc would the adjusted moves on urshi and rilla help into the problem matchups here or am i just going down a rabithole?

oh i forgot the bulkier evs

prolly 44 hp 92 spdef then def dump

the theory is high horsepower is good into fire types, bolt and incin whereas ice punch is good into bolt (and lando)

[wild sinew]

Hhp is good but Ice Punch does less damage to Bolt than CC and less damage to Lando than Surging Strikes.
If it runs Ice coverage it's usually to remove Rillaboom's terrain and win the 1v1, and hit Amoonguss for good damage, but you have your own Rillaboom which makes that hard

[cerulean totem]

it was also party for amoonguss

i never click aqua jet though

i could go rock tomb for speed support 💀

or taunt for tr matchups

https://pokepast.es/9683c7a8e9929841

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean totem]

oop

[wild sinew]

kinda nice for spe booster Flutter and outplaying Thunderclap

[cerulean totem]

i have other ways for that though

idk i think i’m overthinking it i should just go play some pokemon

[wild sinew]

mainly Urshifus other moves suck

[cerulean totem]

yeah

it doesn’t really need them though

surging strikes just carries

hpw did they think this thing would be balanced at all 💀

[autumn osprey]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2057764129

i need you guys to tell me i won because of pure skill here

[cerulean totem]

OMG THEY THREW

icicle crash would have KOed last turn i’m sure of it

[autumn osprey]

Pure skill on my part

[fair marlin]

@cerulean totem @autumn osprey
Here’s my replay I think I’m getting better at this team

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regfbo3-2057938739-4qjohe5b1hdwak9r5abbmmwxwikjcmipw

@wild sinew is it normal to play the Go-to option first when learning a new team?

In this case Tornshifu and Crowndeedee

[wild sinew]

Yeah
When you're usually unsure how to play vs specific matchups

[fair marlin]

In what cases should I take flutter?

[wild sinew]

Raging Bolt imo

[fair marlin]

Aight and this may be a dumb question but in the case of Lando, who should I lead with against it?

[fair marlin]

Also which is more common, offense or support Lando?

[wild sinew]

Offensive

[fair marlin]

Got it

[fair marlin]

Also I think I adapted well here using flutter, thoughts?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2057956874-s0bhkmlpszsgcxljqlh4wtkm5ior8mypw

[acoustic slate]

https://pokepast.es/f977950ed96bd2db me and a friend of mine tried to make a perish trap team, what do we think? He really likes dewgong so I told him perish trap is the best way to go for it.

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torn geyser]

https://pokepast.es/ccbd6d83ab735bb4

[torn geyser]

please help, Goldhengo doesn´t convince me

[fair marlin]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2058047846-kqr5x4lrvgg53mf00k3fmdureukq4umpw

[fair marlin]

I think WolfeVGC did a video on that

[fair marlin]

@wild sinew so seems Raging Bolt is proving to be an issue

I’m unable to kill it in a timely manner

[wild sinew]

What Flutter is used for, have to preserve it

[fair marlin]

I did

But Moon Blast did like nothing

And Tachyon Cutter barely dented it when it fairy tera’d

Honestly can we not make pokemon with no blatant weaknesses?

[winter gulch]

Flutter should not have problems dealing good damage with moonblast

[fair marlin]

Definitely feels like they favored scarlet with how many of the scarlet paradoxes are meta

[fair marlin]

But between Raging Bolt and SS-Urshifu which should I prioritize with flutter mane?

@wild sinew

If they’re out together

[wild sinew]

You can Dazzling Gleam

[fair marlin]

I tried that but it didn’t do much to Raging

[wild sinew]

How much

It should've been in Expanding Force range

[fair marlin]

Like 35-40% of it’s full HP

Moonblast is doing 60-70%

[wild sinew]

You're Choice Specs right

[fair marlin]

Yeah

I think it’s like full tank Raging Bolt I’m facing

[winter gulch]

how is specs dazzling doing only 35-40

what's your EV spread

and is the raging bolt tera'd when you're doing that

[wild sinew]

Prob AV Bolt?

It's the most common set rn at least

[winter gulch]

its important to chip bolt down even if its a neutral or worse attack, the chip adds up on an AV mon

ok but like I swear my dazzling does like 70%

[distant stump]

132 SpA Choice Specs Tera-Fairy Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 196 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Raging Bolt: 212-252 (94.2 - 112%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Your still obliterating it even with vest

132 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dazzling Gleam vs. 196 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Raging Bolt: 102-120 (45.3 - 53.3%) -- 21.1% chance to 2HKO

[winter gulch]

ok maybe not 70%

but that's still a lot of damage

and if it teras out then you can hit it with anything else

[fair marlin]

I think it’s like full tank AV, like maybe some weird Max SpD EV + SpD up nature?

Tho they’ve also been using Tera fairy a good portion of the time too

[wild sinew]

That makes them vulnerable to the Iron Crown you ideally have in the back

[sand minnow]

https://pokepast.es/3b0fbae4d363a35e questions comments concerns? Or suggestions

@wild sinew

[wild sinew]

Urshifu kind of lacks the support to function at its best here and makes your team even weaker to Urshifu-R, Dragonite, Rillaboom, or Raging Bolt are fantastic in this slot.

Gholdengo also really wants Tailwind and Fake Out support which team doesn't provide, Flutter Mane looks like the stronger Ghost as the team isn't built around Gholdengo.

Less noteworthy but you're wasting EVs on Ogerpon, move 4 from hp to speed. Chien Pao should also run 4 defense instead of 4 SpD for optimal chances to survive Surging Strikes.

[fair marlin]

Against Bolt what should be my lead?

[wild sinew]

Can be many things depending on their team

Tornadus or Indeedee + Flutter Mane sounds like the one you'll lead most often

[fair marlin]

Yeah might as well cause psychic terrain stopping thunder clap is awesome

[cerulean totem]

icl i think that playing is my stronger suit

[hoary marsh]

https://pokepast.es/56ad4214ec85f1d3 (advice) i feel something isnt working here . any suggestions/fixes

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[north tree]

1. don't run drain punch on rilla, high horsepower/uturn is always better, I'd recommend uturn for pivoting.

2. Power whip/Wood Hammer on ogerpon hearthflame instead of solar blade, you want to be able to hit out of sun.

3. Heat wave over clear smog on torkoal and earth power over solar beam, better coverage overall. Also change tera grass to tera fire.

4. Change the item on raging bolt to magnet, remove calm mind and replace it with thunderbolt, and then have a more offensive ev spread. You don't have enough tools to support calm mind setup on this team.

5. replace Lando t for farigiraf, the trick room and armor tail support vastly outclasses what Lando can do on this team.

6. Choice specs bulky flutter mane with tera fairy and icy wind moonblast shadow ball dgleam.

[hoary marsh]

@north tree Is this better https://pokepast.es/3d271c6f19dbd2f2 (Wanted to keep clear smog because i have a vendetta on dondozo)

[north tree]

If you keep clear smog replace earth power for heat wave

[hoary marsh]

ok thank you

[ornate cloak]

https://pokepast.es/75e910c31dd4453d

This might seem a tad bit gimmicky but it is really potent against the current meta (at least I think it is)

[north tree]

Honestly replace alcremie incin for ogerpon w and maybe rilla

Alcremie doesn't work here, the mons you have are gonna die before getting off a second attack most likely

[ornate cloak]

Is it ok, if I explain the strategy with this team?

[north tree]

Sure

[ornate cloak]

Basically:
Lead Alcremie and Incineroar, protect Alcremie, Fake out with Incineroar.

Decorate on the Incineroar slot and parting shot and since Incin is faster, it will always go before Alcremie so the decorate will boost Dnite's atk.
E-Speed with Dnite and either switch to Incineroar or Chien-Pao depending on the opposing Pokemon

If I switch to Incineroar, I can apply Fake Out pressure and get off another intimidate and if I switch to Chien-Pao, I can guarantee an OHKO on something.

It's a bit unorthodox, but I think it can be effective

[north tree]

It could be

[ornate cloak]

Yeah

[north tree]

But you have the problem of either incin and alcremie getting kod in those two turns

[ornate cloak]

I can even do this with Urshifu so I don't even have to burn my Terastralisation

[ornate cloak]

Thats true

This won't work against rain teams

For rain I have to leave Incineroar and Alcremie behind

[north tree]

The thing is incin is also vulnerable

If it faints you get no pshot

So no switching in

[ornate cloak]

True

Yeah and my decorate gets wasted

[north tree]

Also don't forget you give your opponent a turn

The strategy falters vs tr

[ornate cloak]

Oh yeah true and since I'll ESpeed most of the time, I only have one turn to do my decorate shenanigans

[north tree]

I'd recommend having your own tr mode

Alcremie and bloodmoon

Decorate before bloodmoon

[ornate cloak]

Alcremie learns Tr?

[north tree]

No, run farigiraf for tr

[cerulean totem]

there us a problem with thus

and that is it is too inflexible

sure that works but you can’t adapt it

[ornate cloak]

Yeah

[cerulean totem]

depending on the matchup/opponent etc

[ornate cloak]

I have to get the turn 2 right or I just straight up lose

[north tree]

Farigiraf/incin/ogerpon w/bloodmoon giraf

[cerulean totem]

that isn’t worth it

[ornate cloak]

Tbh, I might just drop Alcremie for like, Farigaraf

[north tree]

Vs opposing tr teams you can still do the pshot trick

[cerulean totem]

alcremie only rly works w tr, as insertavle is saying

[ornate cloak]

Yeah

[north tree]

That's fair

[ornate cloak]

I can do something with Alcremie, Farigaraf, BloodMoon like Insertable suggested

[north tree]

If I want to stick to the essence of the original I'd just replace alcremie and incin for ogerpon w and maybe rilla

[ornate cloak]

I don't have to run throat spray on Farigaraf if I do that

[north tree]

Incin feels off now that the team is so offensively focused

[ornate cloak]

Tbh it does feel a bit clunky if thats the right way to say it

[north tree]

Oh wait ogerpon w and a special attacker

Flutter

[ornate cloak]

Wait

Decorate on Flutter and spam Dazzling Gleam

And maybe use Chi-Yu?

[north tree]

Kinda tough to do

Flutter is pretty frail

[cerulean totem]

i’d start from the begining if i were yoy

[ornate cloak]

But then the team is insanely frail to Shifu

[north tree]

And doesn't work well under tr

[ornate cloak]

Thinking the same

[north tree]

If you want to use alcremie start again

[cerulean totem]

also i had a question about TR abusers good in this reg.

[ornate cloak]

Not to mention, Chi-Yu and Flutter really fall to Urshifu

[ornate cloak]

Yeah that's probably the best way

[cerulean totem]

apart from BM ursaluna which feels not right for my playstyle, what is there?

[ornate cloak]

I can make Alcremie work with the right pokemon

[ornate cloak]

Well

[north tree]

Hatt indeedee

[cerulean totem]

i hate hatt i’m not using it

[north tree]

P2 balance

[ornate cloak]

I experimented with minimum speed Chi-Yu and Farigaraf for a bit but idk if that's any good

[cerulean totem]

yeah with what?

i tried that but i think my team was not good

[north tree]

You could use the gouging stuff that got 2nd Dortmund

Or just get a bunch of good mons

And slap p2 on the emd

There is also tailroom

[cerulean totem]

i’m listening…

[north tree]

Tailwind + trick room

[cerulean totem]

oh

[north tree]

Usually Tornadus and farigiraf

[cerulean totem]

alr

never heard it called that way

[north tree]

You have a bunch of mons that work in both tr and tailwind

[cerulean totem]

i’m just lookignfor a powerful tr attacker, like BM, but not blood moom

[north tree]

The cool part with tailroom

Is that your tr sweeper doesn't have to be super slow

You just have to be slower than your opponent

[cerulean totem]

yeah but i’m just looking to adjust this one thing

and the only mon that makes sense is BM

but it feels wrong

[north tree]

Unfortunately BM just does the job best

[cerulean totem]

yeaaaah that is what i had arrived ta

at

[ornate cloak]

@north tree

https://pokepast.es/5b0837de00ce1b3e

This is what I started with

I think Hyper Voice over Dazzling Gleam on Farigaraf would be better

But idk what else to add

Maybe TornShifu?

[north tree]

Ogerpon and incin seems good

[ornate cloak]

Hm

Wellspring?

[north tree]

Yeah wellspring

You can actually do the pshot decorate thing now with your non tr mode

[ornate cloak]

Hm

So lead Alcrem, Incin

Decorate Parting shot

Switch to Flutter Mane?

And then dazzling Gleam?

[north tree]

Yeah or wellspring

And start bonking

[ornate cloak]

Wellspring would go crazy

+2 atk, +1 sp def if I choose to Tera

Omg this works perfectly

Tysm

[north tree]

Np

The team isn't dissimilar to the Dortmund winning team so you have a good core even if alcremie doesn't pull it's weight

Oh yeah does decorate go through protect?

[ornate cloak]

Um

[north tree]

If so try booster flutter to get the spa boost behind protect

[ornate cloak]

I'll have to Google that

Yeah lemme see if Decorate goes through protect

[ornate cloak]

Lmfao

It does go through protect

I can just use Booster Energy

But speed over sp atk no?

[north tree]

That's what I was thinking too

You have the speed and then decorate for spa

[ornate cloak]

Actually, for Flutter Mane

I kinda wanted to go 252 speed

[north tree]

Honestly go bulky

[ornate cloak]

To outspeed opposing max speed Flutter which tend to run booster sp atk

[ornate cloak]

Hmm

[north tree]

And then run 124 timid speed booster

[ornate cloak]

It's a shame Alcrem doesn't get Follow me

[ornate cloak]

Alright

[north tree]

You don't need much spa investment just go into def then hp

[ornate cloak]

Goofy Mane (Flutter Mane) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 116 HP / 204 Def / 60 SpA / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Moonblast
• Shadow Ball
• Dazzling Gleam
• Thunderbolt

[ornate cloak]

True

[ornate cloak]

This should do it

[north tree]

You forgot protect

[ornate cloak]

I'll just add protect instead of Tbolt

Perfect

You're a genius

This works even better than Choice Specs

[north tree]

Hope you like it!

[ornate cloak]

Let's see!

I'll test it rn

[cerulean totem]

why 124+ ?

i always go very slow on my booster flutters

https://pokepast.es/daccddfdf2f8bf01

also i have this but idk what to do for gouging or kingambit evs

[north tree]

It's speed booster, this allows you to still outspeed opposing modest flutter even after your booster is spent

You could go way lower on speed ofc

[cerulean totem]

i usually go 20 evs and timid to allow still a shit ton of special attack and bulk

[cold void]

Heyo!
I never played vgc or doubles at all, but i kinda want to give it a try. And i created this team by using Smogon and Pikalytics. And is this team good enough or is there anything to change, besides Latias. Beacuse Latias is my top 1 favorite pokemon of all times and i really really want her in my team, and pretty much i dont care if Tornadus is better Tailwind setter, or Latias have usage of 2,42%
So far i did some battle and im doing pretty good, but i want to make sure if this team is good enough.
https://pokepast.es/7e51888a238e08f9

[cerulean totem]

first thing i not is that you are very amoonguss spore weak, try safety goggles on either gambit or incin

[cold void]

oke

what is a Second thing

[cerulean totem]

it seems like a solid team, especially from a beginer

if you ever feel uncomfortable with it there is no problem using a team that has won a regional/big event recently to get used to some mons and the meta

if i really had to say something, kingambit feels out of place here

and especially on a balance-ish team with tailwind like yours maybe redo ogerpon’s EVs so you have more bulk and less speed

(and i personally really really like tera grass incin)

[cold void]

okeoke, but who do u think could be a good replacement for king in that case

like urshifu or rillaboom can work here?

[cerulean totem]

tbh idk i think probably a grass type

[cerulean totem]

urshifu is falling off rn, especially rapid strike

i’d go amoonguss or rillaboom

actually go assault vest rillaboom as both sitrus and rocky helmet are taken up already

with fake out grassy glide wood hammer and u turn

[cold void]

okeee, and how about ev's
because for me ev's here are really confusing unlike ev's you go with at Singles battles

very weird Numbers

[prisma valley]

https://pokepast.es/256c6fa5bf3ab4a3 ive been having a lot of fun with alex sotos team from liverpool, been great to help me understand synergies and stuff for vgc building. but idk if i like gambit on this team, and feel gholdengo would ge a good replacement. am i stupid to think that

[fair marlin]

I heard this is a good anti-meta duo, any thoughts?

[hidden path]

someone suggest me gimmick mons

[north tree]

This is what Anton used at Portland regionals, he paired it with Regidrago, Incineroar and Ogerpon-wellspring.

Btw booster energy scream tail (boost speed) is the best set, leftovers is suboptimal

[wild sinew]

(Last Pokemon being Tornadus)

[north tree]

Gholdengo doesn't particularly fit on this team, you already have crown for steel STAB.

[north tree]

thanks, I blanked on that one

[fair marlin]

Ah so it is the steel, fairy, dragon core

[wild sinew]

The main thing is that Gholdengo doesn't take abashed of Trick Room as well, and may act as a sub optimal Iron Crown outside it

[fair marlin]

Are there fairy types that can fill scream tail’s role or not really?

[prisma valley]

but could that not be said of gambit since it is steel as well, or is it more so because of its dark STAB being good enough coverage?

[north tree]

Exactly, dark stab is what makes kingambit fit here. Kingambit's steel typing isn't relevant to how it plays offensively it's arguably pure dark.

[prisma valley]

yeah ok that makes sense. gambit for whatever reason was the one mon a couldnt wrap my head around but i think it was simpler than i thought. occam's razor etc etc. thanks

[wild sinew]

Closest thing you'll get is Iron Valiant which is still worse and plays very differently

[fair marlin]

Well that’s a bummer

[fathom jackal]

https://pokepast.es/484520c69949433b

new team i built. Idk whether the ivs need to be fixed because i kinda want sinistcha, armor and iron hands to be able to outspeed some slower stuff outside of trick room

[fair marlin]

So what exactly makes Scream Tail better?

[wild sinew]

The huge bulk which lets it click Encore Disable for longer

[north tree]

Ok I'm gonna write an essay

deep breath

[fathom jackal]

that bad huh 😭

[fair marlin]

Would you say the team with Crowndeedee + Tornshifu is better or the Gholtail team?

[fathom jackal]

well i just got a shiny iron hands as we speak so im hoping 31 iv works lol

[north tree]

• Roseli Berry Incineroar does not activate, you have to be actually weak to fairy moves for it to proc. I would give you items for Incineroar but Incineroar does not fit on this team much, try Iron Crown or Hatterene, preferably the latter.

• Indeedee-F doesn't need terrain extender, Psychic seed and Rocky Helmet are both better items, vgc is fast paced enough that you only need 5 turns.

• Heat wave instead of Will-o-wisp on Torkoal, you need fire stab that works when you have taken chip damage.

• Power Herb Armarouge is by far the best set, with Armor Cannon, Meteor Beam, Expanding Force and either Protect, Trick Room or Wide Guard as the last move. Tera Stellar or grass are the preferred tera types.

• Iron Hands having fake out is suboptimal here, you have psychic terrain which blocks your own priority. Since you have belly drum, run thunder punch over Heavy Slam, and Fake Out can be replaced for protect to ensure flexibility.

• Every EV spread here apart from Sinistcha's has obvious mistakes, replace them all with Smogon dex ones apart from hands who doesn't have a bdrum set. This bdrum set would be 180hp/76atk/252spdef and a brave nature.

• The team is very linear, not a bad thing persay since this is true of every hard Trick Room team, but if your playstyle prefers to have even matchups into everything rather than winning matchups into some and losing into others, you may want to consider another team.

[north tree]

No I've seen worse dw

If it was a lost cause, I would write like two lines

[fathom jackal]

okay i like those things alot

but what about the IVs for armor, hands and sinistcha

should it be 0 or

[north tree]

Ideally it should be 0, but it doesn't particularly matter lol

[fathom jackal]

i would like them to operate out of tr as well

[north tree]

with sinis you don't need it at all since you have a lil speed investment

[fathom jackal]

especially since this team is susceptible to flutter mane

[north tree]

They don't they are still too slow, whether with 31 ivs or 0 ivs

[fathom jackal]

alr

but light speed ivs is fine for like BM and stuff

[north tree]

Yeah it's fine, just have 0 ivs on either hatt or hands

or low enough speed on hatt

oh 31 ivs is slow enough for bloodmoon under trick room

[fathom jackal]

il get 0 spe on hatt, the issue is i want to run shiny hands 😭

[north tree]

yeah you don't NEED 0 ivs on anything

[wild sinew]

Imo yeah

[fathom jackal]

NO WAY

BRO

THE SHINY HANDS I JUST GOT IS 0 IV

HOLY

nvm then lol

[north tree]

Yo let's go!!!

[fathom jackal]

my luck is crazy today, i just got my 0 atk spe torkoal shiny from 200 eggs

and now this

wow

[fair marlin]

Great, I already adapted well to it and I suck with Gholtail

[autumn osprey]

W

[fair marlin]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2058677486

[cerulean totem]

wwwild

[cerulean totem]

some of them here are absolute shockers

that team had the right general direction but bad sets

[crude prism]

https://pokepast.es/2022059b68339d50 Built this team. It needs EV's and I'm debating Darkfu or Waterfu but I think it's alright.

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

I recommend using Choice Scarf Urshifu and replacing Wellspring with Hearthflame to not stack water types. You could also however keep Wellspring and use Focus Sash Urshifu-S in the Urshifu-R slot. Otherwise team looks fine

If you're uncomfortable with EVs, the Smogon Strategy Dex would be a great guide

[fair marlin]

Any thoughts on Enamorus for VGC?

[distant stump]

Worse flutter

[fair marlin]

Even with Contrary? Darn

[distant stump]

not worth the investment

just tera fairy + specs

on flutter

[fair marlin]

Man flutter stealing everyone’s thunder

Hopefully if paradoxes return in gen 10 they gut the hell outta flutter

[hidden path]

i swear

[burnt surge]

no swearing

[hidden path]

my fault

[cerulean totem]

flutter is that guy

[fresh flicker]

https://pokepast.es/c3e466b822695737
Trying to create a balance team using a core of the first 4.

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean totem]

i’d reccomend gambit with the first four, they seem to be quite intimidate weak and howl + sucker punch goes crazy

you can even pair kingambit with farigiraf for a good TR aspect

[topaz edge]

https://pokepast.es/bc8cf75e43daeb6b I feel like I’m possibly missing something on this team but not 100%

[cerulean totem]

if you’re going to go calm mind raging bolt, swap out urshi for ogerpon wellspring with protect, right now you don’t have anough support for that kind of setuo

[topaz edge]

Gotcha. I had wellspring originally but then I felt like having the double grass type was a mistake

[cerulean totem]

no, the double grass is actually quite useful into amoonguss, which your team seems like it woulf struggle against. urshifu water is just hard countered by too many things rn and ogerpon-w has all the tools you would want for supporting raging bolt i think

looking at urshi EVs, ogerpon would fill a similar role, just watch out for landorus incarnate with the suggested changes

[topaz edge]

Right. Those usually Tera poison so I feel like I get sorta walled by that tbh

[cerulean totem]

yeah but with the correct plays like tailwind support and pressure from tera ogerpon i feel like it’s manageable

[topaz edge]

Fair.

[cerulean totem]

wait

bolt usually has protect over thunderbolt in these sorts of sets

are you sure you want to drop pretect on it?

also tera water on flutter seems a bit redundant, you have plenty of counterplay to urshifu

[topaz edge]

My main reasoning for that is I was worried about thunderclap failing due to follow me or status moves so I just wanted a back up option. I forgot to swap the Tera on flutter back to fairy. I copied its set over from a previous team

[cerulean totem]

i understand that but protect is probably more iseful

[cerulean totem]

first time i’ve used raging bolt it seems good

[wild sinew]

Kingambit sounds best over Bloodmoon yeah, minimizes how much Incineroar can switch in to reset your howl boosts. If you do go Swords Dance instead of 3 attacks Kingambit look into Wellspring over Urshifu for redirection and flexibility with protect.

honestly might flat out suggest Wellspring on both Kingambits because of how troublesome Amoonguss is in general, Burning Bulwark doesn't protect you from Spore and you have nothing to kill it other than some double up that can be shut down with a Tera.

[cerulean totem]

yeah basically ehat i said

[wild sinew]

I think the main issue here is actually the Raging Bolt, doesn't keep up with the fast Tailwind mode and something for opposing Raging Bolt like Archaludon or Landorus would be better for the team, though if you were to go Archaludon you'd give up Rillaboom for Amoonguss.

[topaz edge]

So you believe I should swap bolt out for Lando-I?

[wild sinew]

yeah

[topaz edge]

What type team does raging bolt fit on more then? Only thing I can think of is a hard trick room team.

[wild sinew]

This would help

https://cut-explorer.stalruth.dev/regional-dortmund

But in general bulkier balance structures, and when using Tornadus, usually with a defensive core that opens Gholdengo set up

[cerulean totem]

i made a good team with bolt td

it’s not finished but i’ll send what i have rn

https://pokepast.es/61c64000f39a03c9 it’s got a good tr core of p2 incin and amoonguss and the fast mode is booster speed flutter ig

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean totem]

good defensive synergy overall

[topaz edge]

P2 is an interesting choice

[cerulean totem]

p2 is one of my favourite pokemon and it has a good place in the meta rn too

bulky enough to survive a lot and tera poison tera blast hits so much for super effective, if you get the download spatk boost then it’s crazy damage

[topaz edge]

Oh really? I haven’t seen a single one on ladder so I had no idea it was decent rn

[cerulean totem]

it’s been getting good usage with incin, p2 and ting lu on both ladder and tournaments

rn especially the 1300 mark on showdown from my experience

i originally thought icebeam+tbolt for perfect coverage but then i saw the good performing p2 teams go with tera poison blast and i just knew it was better

[broken jackal]

Hey when someone gets a chance mind giving your thoughts about this doubles team pokepast.es/fc553be0ab11606e

Hold up

https://pokepast.es/fc553be0ab11606e

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

Assume you're pretty new to doubles?

[broken jackal]

Sorta just wanted to test the waters with a weird tink team

[wild sinew]

I see, Tinkaton is pretty bad unfortunately

[broken jackal]

Do you think you can give me a better ev spread because keep in mind tink and grafiai are the stars for this team mostly

[wild sinew]

im not good w stuff for fun, another rater can help though

[broken jackal]

That's fine

[brisk portal]

https://pokepast.es/a7576541ce458449
thoughts?

[wild sinew]

This looks good

[cerulean totem]

yeah great team

[topaz edge]

https://pokepast.es/45a3490f524f28f2 Think i've made a pretty good team centered around bolt

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

I think a Tailwind comp would prefer AV Raging Bolt a lot more, makes for a good switch into stuff and throws damage without burning Tailwind turns, but with that you'll have to sacrifice Rillaboom.

Grass type I'm currently looking at is Wellspring as a way to mix Urshifu and Rillaboom in one, gives you the ability to run Darkshifu which synergises well with Wellspring.

[topaz edge]

would you think a banded set for Darkshifu or sash is preferred?

[wild sinew]

Focus Sash ideally

[distant stump]

Depends

I prefer band but sash is easier to use on most teams

but yeah generally you want AV or booster energy bolt there, and consider scarf fu

You want goggles on incin as you have no taunt torn or pon

[topaz edge]

https://pokepast.es/5080559d0f06e73f Ok i swapped out the rilla and urshi like you suggested.

[cerulean totem]

why not 252 252 urshi and no moonblast flutter ?

not problems just pointing stuff out

https://pokepast.es/08cbca5e19b03106 i’ve been struggling to find good partners for this rly string core, i’ve tried everything from bolt to various gambit sets, ting lu to lando and basically everythin imbetween. i think a setup pokemon would fit well due to double redirect + incin and either a fast or slow mode idk

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean totem]

nothing feels fluid and as strong as these first four

[north tree]

#comp-general or Smogonvgc cord, I think this team can go in many directions. My advice would be to look for a lot of power in the last two, staple sweepers like flutter and setup sweepers like gholdengo.

[cerulean totem]

invite to smogonvgc discord? also i found a good duo

https://pokepast.es/6bd96f80db1ca3cd odd pao set but it works well

[north tree]

https://discord.com/invite/PAhc3hQT

[cerulean totem]

many thanks

[north tree]

I think it's fine if I link it here

[distant stump]

You can just do

!vgcresources

[drifting onyx]

VGC Resources
Format Details and Analyses: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/
Metagame Discussion Thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3732909/
Viability Rankings: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3735769/
Simple Questions, Simple Answers: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3588172/
Rental Teams: https://victoryroadvgc.com/sv-rental-teams/
Teams From Most Recent Tournament: https://cut-explorer.stalruth.dev/regional-dortmund
VGCPastes Repository: http://tinyurl.com/vgcpastes
Room on Showdown: https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc
Discord: https://discord.gg/Wt5dD7z
Last Updated <t:1707679184:f>

[cerulean totem]

wild

i’ve never really been involved in the online pokemon comm before

[topaz edge]

https://pokepast.es/e05ce3f7e19ae4fd Got an idea about a sun team with trick room as a option. Darkshifu is slow so it can under speed other urshis when trick room is up and still works ok in tailwind I think especially when next to cresselia or flutter. Ursaluna is the one I’m iffy about because there’s alot of intimidate going on so may swap to bloodmoon.

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[north tree]

replace cresselia for farigiraf and normal ursaluna for ursaluna bloodmoon. Farigiraf provides priority block to complement with both forms of speed control and trades the ghost weakness for an immunity. Bloodmoon-ursaluna is much more efficient at trick room sweeping and works well in tailwind as well when you give it maximum speed investment with a modest nature.

[topaz edge]

For bloodmoon EV would something like 92HP/164 SpA / 253 Spe work or should I adjust for some more SpD with less SpA?

[north tree]

you can honestly go 252 spa 252 spe modest

with 4 hp or spdef

I'm not a bloodmoon player so I wouldn't know specific spreads

!vgcresources

[drifting onyx]

VGC Resources
Format Details and Analyses: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/
Metagame Discussion Thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3732909/
Viability Rankings: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3735769/
Simple Questions, Simple Answers: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3588172/
Rental Teams: https://victoryroadvgc.com/sv-rental-teams/
Teams From Most Recent Tournament: https://cut-explorer.stalruth.dev/regional-dortmund
VGCPastes Repository: http://tinyurl.com/vgcpastes
Room on Showdown: https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc
Discord: https://discord.gg/Wt5dD7z
Last Updated <t:1707679184:f>

[candid kiln]

https://pokepast.es/1f769c46d76c6b2f made a new reg f team

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

I don't like Urshifu here, doubling up on water types is usually not recommended and I think Landorus has more synergy with the team, beating common Gambit resists (Tera Fairy Flutter, Iron Hands, opposing Kingambit, Incineroar) and with Substitute, giving a more comfortable Amoonguss matchup.

I'd also look into Tera Fairy Harc for a better Urshifu-S matchup, the Pokemon is a big reason Latias comps got so much worse.

Otherwise this is a standard Latias team, I don't think the composition is very strong right now but it's definitely alright and can work well.

[candid kiln]

Okay thank you!

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/66d0e93e66f93f39 what's the best team you can make with these 13

[acoustic slate]

I could literally make my normal team with these

Flutter, incin, rilla, lando, torn, shifu

[wild sinew]

Atp subjective

The FWG core + Tornadus Flutter Mane Landorus is the easiest to pilot

[long barn]

If this is a draft league team your insane

Cuz this amazing

[narrow dock]

Who should be the FWG core

[wild sinew]

Incineroar Rillaboom Urshifu-R

[narrow dock]

On a scale of 1-10 how good is that team

[wild sinew]

8 ig

[narrow dock]

How can I make it a 10

Or 9.2

[wild sinew]

I wouldn't say there exists a 10

I think that this is just the best TornShifu can go honestly, 8 is still fantastic, probably closer to 8.5 even

[heady latch]

https://pokepast.es/a6fddbeab6595e5c

Hello there!
I made a funny non-meta status-team. It works in ranked matches - but if anybody can tell me how to improve it would be great! Getting better is always fine 🙂

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

Assume you're mainly looking to have fun with off meta techs right

[heady latch]

You're right! But they should work and it's fun to beat meta sometimes 🙂

The alpha version of this team had Gengar instead of Flutter. But we all know that Gar is currently far behind other special attackers - so I decided to go for a bulky Flutter which checks Gholdengo and Amoongus. Lax is a leftover of my previous teams - it checks Flutter-Yu leads.
But it still feels like a weird invention by a mad designer.

[narrow dock]

Who's better on a trick Room team, Porygon2 or dusklops

[hidden path]

porygon2 by far

well not by far but its just better

[heady latch]

Porygons advantage are its offensive opportunities. Dusklops can just stall (I mean: it does extremely well 😅), status around and press Pain Split. Like it but Porygon2 can do active stuff and nuke opposing monsters with Ice Beam, Tera Blast.... I love bulky monsters!

[cerulean totem]

p2 by far, especially tera poison blast in the meta rn

i’ve been using p2 a decent amount recently

and it’s generally one of my favourite mons

[proud seal]

I need a little help. I'm trying to build a team around Incineroar & Landorus I

[cerulean totem]

just a few minor things:

glim needs speed for this meta and i’d suggest a standard 252 252 set with only special attack - earth power over venoshock for things like gambit

tera poison on p2

also flutter EVs need to be reviewed, i have a set that could work if you want

[cerulean totem]

if you have a team you want reviewed you can send it here, if not you can ask for help building it from scratch

[proud seal]

I need help building it from scratch

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/a3ac9b2140deaf46 what should the last member be?

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean totem]

trick room with incineroar - the best core rn is incin p2 and amoonguss rn in my opinion

if not, you can go farigiraf over porygon 2 and have blood moon ursaluna

[cerulean totem]

add a fast redirect mon like ogerpon i think (also have some offensive investment on p2)

i would also change iron hands for an attack invested incineroar personally, iron hands feels bad into the meta rn imo

and you want hyper voice on blood moon over moonblast

and tera fairy on gambit is strictly better, overlapping ground weaknesses is not good

[heady latch]

I would like to see your Flutter Set 🙂
P2s Electric Tera was just an idea for coverage - my team has a lot of poison. But I will try Tera Poison 🙂

The Idea was poisoning everything and then delete with venoshock. But I will try out Earth Power and your set - maybe it works better.

[proud seal]

https://pokepast.es/b8ad695dce15c18b
So something like this I didn't know what to add for that last team spot

[cerulean totem]

tera poison is good defensively as well, stops you dropping to a FM double-up

i’ll dm the flutter set to not clutter this channel more than i already have td

[cerulean totem]

no, porygon 2 over porygon z and remove creselia for some fast mode like flutter mane. i think farigiraf goes better with blood moon, so maybe you could go:

porygon 2, incin, amoongus, araquanid, flutter mane and ursaluna

[proud seal]

https://pokepast.es/8662589520d64fb5

[cerulean totem]

you need more standard sets:

more bulk on incin, fake out + glare blitz on moveset (over temperflare and u-turn) and defensive item

use the standard tera poison p2 set

spore on amoonguss, preferably over sludge bomb, also leftovers isn’t the best item here

specs isn’t common on ursaluna but i could see it working

idk how to use araquanid

[proud seal]

https://pokepast.es/335a639a1f024963

[fresh flicker]

First off-

There's no reason for Palafin to be there when shifu is already there.

You're stacking too many weaknesses to Electric and Grass

One thing I would do first is replace everything except Shifu and Oger for Flutter, Incin, Rillaboom, and Torn/Fari

And replace Urshifu-R for Urshifu-S.

Ogerpon-W can stay.

But use the sets on the Analysis for all the pokemon.

@sand minnow

[north tree]

I would be nicer if this was a casual team but you CANNOT bring THIS to vancouver and do well.

I would reccomend taking a sample team from somewhere or a team that top cut a regional and play around with that

see if you like it and if it fits your playstyle

if you want a breakdown of the team you sent and what's wrong with it, ping me and I'll get it done tomorrow inshallah

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/202dd092eab266dc could i get some advice. The team works great but the only problems i have are Amoongus spore teams paired with incin cripple and Indeedee Tr paired with Farigiraf. other trick room setters im usually fine with

[wild sinew]

The team looks fine

You might want to switch Chien Pao to Ice Spinner for terrain

Then you can just priority your way through half their team and let Dozo clean up, it's too bulky for the tr teams to break

As for Farigiraf you try to remove it with like Tera Ghost Ice Spinner -> Ariel Ace (which should be there instead of Thunder Punch)

[dense nebula]

thats the issue with spore

they just spam spore and slowly chip away my hp

[burnt surge]

guy has a rain team without the rain poke (tornadus)

[cerulean totem]

that is why tera grass dozo is optimal

[dense nebula]

i was wondering if that'd be better but idk

[cerulean totem]

today i fought a set that was tera steel with sub which i thought wouldn’t work but it was tough to take down, maybe you cound try substitute if it sounds more appealing

[distant stump]

Sub dozo is neat, I used to run it

Problem was

You still are affected by rage powder

So amoon can just soak up all ur attacks

And there’s so many urshifu

[cerulean totem]

idk you still have eq

i haven’t used dondonzo much myself but i thought sub was a nice addition since tera steel is great defensively

[distant stump]

Proble there

Incin can just

Fake out + parting cycle you like crazy

And you can’t effectively ohko it

[cerulean totem]

yeah ig

idk i don’t use dondozo lmao

i used it once when murkrow was meta and yeah that was the end

[distant stump]

Doz is like my main strat so I’ve played pretty much every bad mu under the sun lmao

While I like sub, it’s not great rn

[cerulean totem]

i think it was a matchup issue

i had game plans for tera grass but not tera steel sub

[wild sinew]

Your leads easily shut down Amoonguss, Taunt, and a bunch of ways to remove it.

You can run Tera Grass Dondozo if you are really struggling, which solves the endgame

[dense nebula]

ill run tera grass ig

everytime i lead with torn they lead amoonguss fari

and i cant taunt

[cerulean totem]

try going taunt on tatsugiri then

i don’t think icy wind is doing much anyway

[dense nebula]

is clear amulet immune to clear smog

[winter gulch]

no?

[dense nebula]

alr, i assumed so but wasnt sure

anything to prevent clear smog amoongus

[wild sinew]

Tera Steel but nothing else no

[dense nebula]

so i'd have to use tera steel with safety goggles to prevent spore rage powder and clearsmog?

[wild sinew]

yes

though I wouldn't recommend it

[ornate cradle]

here?

[abstract latch]

Yup

[ornate cradle]

oh right cool

ok so

[abstract latch]

Send it in a pokepast

[ornate cradle]

that

[abstract latch]

Oop okay not like that

[ornate cradle]

oh is that okay

right

do you just want screenshots it’s on showdown

[abstract latch]

Go to showdown, go to your team, at the bottom it will say “upload to pokepast” and send the link

One sec

[ornate cradle]

mkay mb

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[abstract latch]

See?

Also delete this, you’re all good though

[ornate cradle]

mkay

it won’t let me :<

one min

[abstract latch]

Take your time

[ornate cradle]

https://pokepast.es/8dfb8c158f79db18

[ornate cradle]

out of curiosity why?

just clutter?

[abstract latch]

There we go

[abstract latch]

And yes, clutter and it’s not the right way to send your team

[ornate cradle]

right mb i’m new to competitive

[abstract latch]

It’s all good

[ornate cradle]

as you’ll be able to see from my team

[abstract latch]

Can be kinda confusing at first

[ornate cradle]

mhm

[abstract latch]

Why do you have protect on a mon with a choice item? Just curious

[ornate cradle]

idk things

that’s why

it’s a good point

i just didn’t actually think it through ig lmaoo

[north tree]

Fix the tera types on amoonguss and flutter, flutter should have tera fairy and amoonguss a defensive tera

[abstract latch]

I was about to point that out

[north tree]

Protect choice specs flutter has been used on hyperoffense teams

[abstract latch]

Ooohhhh never knew that

[north tree]

Maybe not the best choice here since trick room seems like a good idea

[ornate cradle]

mkay icl i have very little experience in gen 9 stuff so idk what terra types to give people

[north tree]

Also make flutter bulkier, the smogon dex spread should do you good

[ornate cradle]

so i’ve probably made a few mistakes

[north tree]

Amoonguss can take tera fire or water

[ornate cradle]

okok

[north tree]

Fairy not fire sorry

[abstract latch]

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/flutter-mane/

[ornate cradle]

mkay

[north tree]

Apart from this, the team's only issue is not sweeping effectively under tr, I'd recommend SD pon so you can just sweep with a balance mode of incin amoong oger cress

And have bloodmoon as your tr sweeper

[ornate cradle]

that’s what it says

[north tree]

Sun with flutter is a neat concept but idt it fits here esp with oger wellspring

[ornate cradle]

the only difference i had was 4 on hp instead

[north tree]

Oh not that one the one Sandy posted

[ornate cradle]

right

[north tree]

Anyway I have to go hope this helped

You said you were new but your team is rather solid I think you have a bright future

[ornate cradle]

ty it did

[ornate cradle]

ty it’s only my first team

[abstract latch]

Yeah good luck, I think it looks solid from my experience with vgc

[ornate cradle]

i’ve loved pokémon my whole life and i thought giving competitive would be fun

[ornate cradle]

ty

[abstract latch]

Just remember to take breaks if it gets frustrating. I’m the same way, but it’s easy to get lost in ladder battles

[ornate cradle]

yea

so all in all,

• protect w flutter is bad here
• fix flutter and amoongus terra typing
• make flutter bulkier by changing the ev spread

and i don’t understand after that icl

[ornate cradle]

this

[ornate cradle]

this

[ornate cradle]

and this

it probably makes sense i’m just not great with words sorry

[abstract latch]

In my opinion I think you should just switch flutter for bm ursaluna but then again I’m not an expert on vgc, I focus on dou

From what I understand, if you want a tr team you should have two sweepers. The torkoal and the ursaluna since they’re both great under tr

And with flutter, while you do have speed outside of tr, again it should be bulky

[ornate cradle]

right

[abstract latch]

So if I were you I’d either make torkoal a bm ursa and keep bulky flutter or swap flutter and go hard tr

[ornate cradle]

right so

replace flutter w bm ursa

and like

[abstract latch]

So you wanna go hard tr?

[ornate cradle]

uuuh ig

[abstract latch]

Hey it’s up to you. For hard tr I’d prefer having at least two tr setters so it’d swap around your team a lot

But it’s up to you

[ornate cradle]

right okay

[abstract latch]

I think I’m too sick to be thinkng this hard about pokemon rn

[ornate cradle]

so it’s probably not optimal to do hard tr?

unless i change it a lot

[abstract latch]

For right now, I’d suggest you start with bm ursa and bulky flutter to play around with the team first

See what you like

[ornate cradle]

that’s not bulky tho no?

[abstract latch]

When you open the link it auto selects the highest tier on smogon, ubers

Switch it to one of the vgc regulations and look for the set named “bulky specs” I think

Where is it…

[ornate cradle]

oh right lmao

[abstract latch]

I think reg f’s choice specs is already the bulky variant

Yup yup, reg f’s choice specs

[ornate cradle]

this?

[abstract latch]

Yup

Oh I gotta go to the doctor

Uh

Buena suerte, buddy

[ornate cradle]

tyvm gl

[burnt surge]

!pokepaste

[drifting onyx]

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180492013660/pokepaste2.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=2d3caf4b912c30f438c896f0b696d9c80bd50d9e5a4a8ed067bca9e5dbf6ff3c&

[abstract latch]

Ah yes, bot commands automating my explanations

Yippee

:D

[burnt surge]

I'm a step ahead of you buddy

[abstract latch]

Yeah but I got there before you did

[north tree]

No switch torkoal for bloodmoon lol

Flutter stays

You don't need two sweepers here, you just play a balance trick room mesh here

Where you are bulky enough for multiple trick room setups

[burnt surge]

https://pokepast.es/c8853bec5ff1ea40
Decided to build some sort of hyper offense, Tera Grass Gyara is so that it can ignore Ogerpon and Amoongus, Gapdos is Intim deterrant and Tailwind setter in one slot

[ornate cradle]

yea

dw i figured that out after a whole

https://pokepast.es/0200cc574587f94a

that’s the team now

i finally got a win with it lmao and although there may be some small issues with the team i’m 100% certain that the reason i’m losing is a skill diff beyond belief

what tends to happen is

i play cresselia and blood moon at the start

then i get one or two with bm

then he goes down

and i’m a little stuck cos i have a few turns left on tr and everything else is relatively fast

that’s my issue atm but that’s probably somewhat skill diff

[burnt surge]

ok @rare slate ur right, howl gouging is actually insane

https://pokepast.es/5fc74f3b7deabeec
changed gyara/gapdos evs w/ ones from pikalytics (no idea what they do)

[distant stump]

Dragapult/Pao is kinda ehhh rn, Pao is fine but dragapult takes up to many resources and doesen't do anything that flutter doesen't do, esp with dark fu everywhere.

I personally Gyarados, I think if your good it could work, but consider a pon instead, follow me is really really nice with

Gapdos feels kinda out of place there, gambit has much more synergy with the overall team composition, has speed contorl with sucker, and much better resistances

you also dont have a solid switch into flutter, the OG gouging team has AV rilla and Tera water pon

[distant stump]

While I like cresselia its probably not the pick here, fig looks much nicer. Or you can be based

and run regular luna

also

if you run double redirector

you kinda need a set up mon

to justify the slots

[burnt surge]

oh I wasn't even looking at an OG gouging team

I just saw Eve's screenshot of Pao + Pult her talking about howl gouging and thought "oh that sounds pretty good"

[distant stump]

Icc

Wait lemme get the og team

https://pokepast.es/487ac3ae899aa58e

something like this

very solid

[burnt surge]

I think I settled on Gapdos since it was another anti Intimidate Pokemon that also had Tailwind so I could deal with opposing Tailwind.

Gyara I chose cuz I wanted another angle of attack into Urshifu-R

Ogerpon W is probably better but I liked Clear Amulet cuz this physically offensive team really dislikes Intimidate

[distant stump]

Yeah but thing is

gapdos tw is not prio

so teams can easily just go

flutter + torn

so your burning a tera for tw you know

[burnt surge]

yeah

[distant stump]

just run gambit

and sucker punch them

is the idea

[burnt surge]

that's fair

[distant stump]

I like gyra, luna would probs say no but I think its pretty solid

you might want

another supportive option tho

you can double stack water types with pon/gyra

[burnt surge]

I'm probably gonna go av rilla and kingambit

I just realized that gyara and rilla have negative synergy

[distant stump]

Porque?

Seems fine to me

[distant stump]

Sounds fine

[burnt surge]

Grassy Terrain + EQ

[distant stump]

just dont run eq

[burnt surge]

also

is it worth to run Lum Berry on Gambit

[distant stump]

i ran prot, dd, tera flying tera blast and wfall

I really recommend running tera flying tera blast

[burnt surge]

sounds good to me

[distant stump]

Nah

just run goggles

no mon burns

[burnt surge]

gotcha

https://pokepast.es/633797b9d2bae16d

[distant stump]

like no meta relevant mon burns

[burnt surge]

Gouging Fire

[distant stump]

change your rilla tera

[distant stump]

True

but it just

heat crashes

ya know

[burnt surge]

fair

should rilla be tera fire?

[distant stump]

I recc flutter > dragapult

[distant stump]

whichever

water/fire/poison are all good

poison is my tera of choice

[burnt surge]

👍

yeah I wanted pult cuz I wanted to build around Pao + Pult + Gouging

[distant stump]

Like theres no special attackers there

and fairy coverage is really nice

[burnt surge]

lol fair

[distant stump]

in concept its cool but then stuff like dark fu/raging bolt just rolls your team

[burnt surge]

hm I haven't played much darkshifu yet

bolt I just brought in both dragons and I was cooking

[distant stump]

Breaking doesen't effect bolt really

and dragapult doesen't do too terribly much with dragon darts

[distant stump]

it will show up

[burnt surge]

https://pokepast.es/2194092a4de2fd27

this is w/ flutter mane

[distant stump]

Stamp of approval

looks good

[burnt surge]

ty

[digital sierra]

https://pokepast.es/e825bedcac3102a5 gouging fire/ninetales team i made

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant stump]

Snow is really hard to play this reg, too much opposing weather/taunt control and your main mons have no pressure

ape is just kinda mid, again it has no immediete pressure and just gets blown up by other mons

ting lu doesen't look ideal there, it doesen't support anything really

[digital sierra]

so what would i change?

[burnt surge]

new question

what do I do against archaludon

[wild sinew]

you just Howl really

and it takes like 60 from Moonblast

you force a Tera with Sacred Sword and if it's Tera Grass you can get rid of it quickly
Tera Fairy would be annoying but should be easy to get into Moonblast range and play around that wincon

[wild sinew]

unfort just really slow and lacks a way to immidietely threaten the opp

[digital sierra]

so what do i change?

[burnt surge]

what do here

[distant stump]

If no flutter you kinda just dont

[burnt surge]

I guess

but it was also av

[distant stump]

132 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Archaludon: 99-117 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

archaludon is paper thin specialy

[burnt surge]

I see

[digital sierra]

https://pokepast.es/162553c19cc71362 how's this?

[wild sinew]

prob bring Gouging

[wild sinew]

is screens what you're trying to build around?

because the Grimm becoming a Chien Pao or Landorus-T/I works

[winter gulch]

ok I can't lie that's kinda on you for having 0 special attackers

[burnt surge]

yeah I switched to the flutter mane version after

I also ran into a kommo-o and was like "yeah this is untenable"

[ornate cradle]

tyvm but i’m sorry ur gonna need to explain some things like i’m brand new

because i am

[wild sinew]

what confuses you

[ornate cradle]

Also is fig that one giraffe?

[distant stump]

Ye

[ornate cradle]

the last section

[distant stump]

Both amoonguss and wpon are redirectors, hence the double redirectors

[wild sinew]

Fig = Farigiraf
Luna = Ursaluna
double redirector = Pokemon that use Follow Me / Rage Powder
set up = set up moves like Swords Dance and Nasty Plot

[distant stump]

if you run both your kinda giving up a lot of opportunity cost

[ornate cradle]

tyvm

[distant stump]

so you need something to justify both 1/3 of your team being supportive mostly

oh you just needed vocab

yeah what luna said then

[ornate cradle]

so it would be good to replace wpon?

sry i’m a little slow and the fact that i just woke up doesn’t help

[ornate cradle]

that would make sense because i don’t often play wpon because i find it just less useful than the others in most circumstances but i guessed that to be a skill issue tbh

[distant stump]

No you can keep both

theres nothing inherently wrong with both on a team, but you need something to justify it

normally teams with w/pon and amoonguss run for example

dragon dance roaring moon

just some kinda mon that appreciates the redirection

[ornate cradle]

oh like a setup sweeper?

[distant stump]

Ye

tr is also a good shout, but something on top would be nice

[ornate cradle]

eg?

[distant stump]

Kinda up to you and how you want to continue the team

if you lean more into trick room consider something like registeel or kommo o

[ornate cradle]

fair enough

[distant stump]

if you go more balance

go for roaring moon

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/

Sets for most of the stuff mentioned above should be here

[ornate cradle]

it’s the first team i’ve made so sorry if i’m being annoying it would just be cool to make it decent yk

[distant stump]

Why are you apologizing so much, im not gonna kill you 😭