VGC Rates

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean totem]

it’s not a very standard team, so i can’t give the best feedback, but the EV spreads are a bit odd, actually the sets in general are very odd and most of the items don’t make sense

toxic on amoonguss is a bit ? and no protect on latiaps and no defensive evs but semi-defensive tera is not how i would run it no moonblast on flutter but it has mysical fire?? torn set seems quite bad and incin item makes little sense

overall i wouldn’t use it, try returning to the drawing board with an adjusted latios set and uh yeah

if you want u can whip up a quick fiexed version rq

[naive dock]

https://pokepast.es/27a47186cc7ed72b I mostly use this in either hyper offence with chien-pao, dragapult, and flutter, or trick room with farigiraf, hands and incin

[cerulean totem]

why tera fairy chienpao?

[naive dock]

mostly to live a fighting move if I need an extra turn

[cerulean totem]

why not tera ghost then

no fake out + fighting immune

also the 4 spare evs should always be defense for pao

for urshifu ohko rolls

[cosmic ferry]

can someon please give me some feedback. Im looking to build a team mainly focused on araquanid and this is what i came up with. https://pokepast.es/f04fdbc5a7c1d5f5

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wheat estuary]

https://pokepast.es/7fd884647cb44cfe new to vgc need help

[wild sinew]

Thunderbolt -> Calm Mind, Milotic -> Ogerpon-Wellspring, profit.

Would recommend using already built teams before getting into VGC, half of your Pokemon want protect and certain choices like Jolly no Flare Blitz Incineroar are questionable.

Here are teams from the recent regional.
https://cut-explorer.stalruth.dev/regional-portland

Wellspring is better than Amoonguss here, abuses screens better and synergises better with Gholdengo, being able to hit fire and water types hard.

Don't like Iron Hands here, makes the team very weak to opposing Incineroar. Something like Landorus instead which also hits Make it Rain and Icicle Spear resists, makes it a great Gholdengo and Baxcalibur partner.

I'd recommend playing with pre existing teams before team building in VGC. It's a very hard skill and it takes time to understand. Things like that Offensive Tornadus or Incineroar don't see usage as they're built as support Pokemon, and Flutter Mane doesn't hit hard enough for its lack of bulk to justify Scarf, Speed Booster variants are more supportive with Icy Wind as speed Control and have the option to protect and preserve the mon for another turn.

Teams from Portland:
https://cut-explorer.stalruth.dev/regional-portland

[wild sinew]

Incineroar never really protects in practice and likes having Knock Off, Helping Hand, Taunt, Snarl utility.

Flutter Mane is better off with a Speed Booster set honestly, makes up for the lost protect and gives you a fast mode. It can also be replaced with something like Ogerpon-W for options into Trick Room, Dondozo, and Amoonguss.

Ally Switch isn't very reliable as Farigiraf lacks the bulk to abuse it, Helping Hand or Imprison are what you'd usually see. You want Safety Goggles Farigiraf as you have 0 Amoonguss answers in the original paste, consider Uproar over Dazzling Gleam if the matchup is still dire

Iron Hands is weird here as it overlaps with Incineroar, Fake out pivot that helps Farigiraf set trick room. Ursaluna-Bloodmoon keeps something to use into Trick Room but is less weak to Intimidate. Recommend Tera Grass to help with the previously mentioned Amoonguss and Dondozo.

Chien-Pao just really wants the damage from Adamant right now, Jolly misses out on a lot of kills, and with the Dondozo checks, you don't need to waste a moveslot on haze and can run Sacred Sword. Tera Ghost is best because while you still dodge the fighting weakness, it matters more when you're at 1 hp or don't want to lose your Focus Sash. Fake Out and Extreme Speed bring similar issues Ghost handles well.

[wild sinew]

This is great

Make Raging Bolt a bulkier Calm Mind set, put Choice Specs on Flutter Mane, and that should be good to go.

[wild sinew]

Think this team is stronger if you go Choice Scarf Urshifu over Landorus and drop Sunny Day on Tornadus. Safety Goggles Raging Bolt is a great option to help with Amoonguss.

[narrow dock]

Are there any necessary changes

[wild sinew]

Entei over Great Tusk

And a different Raging Bolt set

[wild sinew]

I'd recommend going Lando T over Incineroar with the change

[narrow dock]

Should I add protect

[wild sinew]

Yeah, Safety Goggles Tera Fairy or Magnet Tera Grass.
Thunderbolt over Solar Beam and Protect over Weather Ball should pretty much anyways be your way to go.

[hasty owl]

I understand ogerpon but not calm mind, shouldn’t I have thunderbolt for tornadus

[narrow dock]

Also why entei

[wild sinew]

Better into the meta, good synergy with Chien Pao thanks to extreme speed, fire big boost from sun

[wild sinew]

Unnecessary, it's not going to suddenly make Torn not set Tailwind and it'll eventually start clicking Bleakwind Storms. Calm Mind is good because you have a lot of support for it, especially with Ogerpon.

[hasty owl]

Ok

Wait what build should I use for ogerpon

[narrow dock]

But tusk is stronger and has better defense

[wild sinew]

• Protosynthesis vs Sun boost and the prevalence of Intimidate cancel it out very well
• matters a lot less on HO, Tusk also has paper special defence making it very vulnerable anyway.

[celest salmon]

so can you make some changes right on the team? the idea behind fully offensive latios is that with thunderbolt electric tera it ohkos iron bundle, rapid ursh, and tornadus. aura sphere is specifically for kingsgambit and incine, but ig i could swap that out for protect. the evs spread is weird cus i just dump 252 into the good stats :/ the items are def weird cus i didnt really considered them well

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/857a988d5122cde6 modified old team with different ev spreads. added iron hands and replaced roaring moon with torn

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[dense nebula]

forgot to replace raindance with sunny day

woops

just ignore this i messed up a few things

https://pokepast.es/742b4bb7759d9aa2 accurate one

[fresh flicker]

I think whims does better here then Torn. It's faster and has most other tools Torn has.

[cerulean totem]

also tera water is way better than fire on amoonguss

[cerulean totem]

sure accept friend request i’ll dm a few potential teams

[urban cloak]

thx for the help ive been doing way better with da shroom

oops wrong reply

but both helped

[wild sinew]

That's good to hear

[urban cloak]

my literal only counter is waterpon now

which depending on the build is still manageable

[dense nebula]

which one do you guys think looks better. ill post the pokepaste

ive tried all of these a few times but idk

https://pokepast.es/b5f17a5b9acf64b4 1
https://pokepast.es/779144525d6d7f0a 2
https://pokepast.es/4abf65c6e190adce 3
https://pokepast.es/f656d5a9940fe15f 4
https://pokepast.es/2c927394ee85d889 5
https://pokepast.es/b43457b00c3f987e 6
https://pokepast.es/dafc709fe5149388 7
https://pokepast.es/964052626619d782 8
https://pokepast.es/ca7b531abb989eb9 9
https://pokepast.es/1f3d84b4c3aa9036 10
https://pokepast.es/a136345bcec3f559 11
https://pokepast.es/5064040168e6e0d9 12

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[dense nebula]

in order from top to bottom

[normal stream]

bruh

[dense nebula]

dont have to look at it xd

[severe basin]

https://pokepast.es/cfe05ec7dc3265b1

[cerulean totem]

why not rapid strike on the rain teams @dense nebula

just a question

[dense nebula]

which rain with lando theres 2

[dense nebula]

forgot to change it.

i copy pasted them from the original one i made

[cerulean totem]

and also there’s no rain dance on the torn on some

[cerulean totem]

idk number 5 seems alright

having not played any idk

i haven’t used archaludon mush so idk how good it rly is

[dense nebula]

they're the right forms now

also fixed

https://pokepast.es/caef4ef0b425b7ba this one?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2037589657-pp7jbge3490var28i3akcmnrby4z2fzpw @cerulean totem

[mint pilot]

would love some criticism on my tr team https://pokepast.es/2745a35ff130efc7.
i've been having trouble with some certain matchups but i cant tell if im just not piloting well or if its a team problem

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[analog shell]

https://pokepast.es/f79b549cf196bf56 could one of u legends help me find 4 more mons that would go well with this regigigas team? i know it not much to start but im at a stump to what i can put theat could work as another optional first 2

[magic light]

Mine 1v3’d a Lando-I, Rillaboom, and Metagross

[fair marlin]

yeah forget the other 3 teams I posted this one's been doing the best but still not doing super well

https://pokepast.es/fdfe677ecec05e74

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant stump]

Stacking way too many grass/water types

Amoon and rilla in some cases I can understand

You defo don’t want urshifu bundle and pala together

[fair marlin]

what should I run then? I personally really wanna use palafin

[cerulean totem]

using palafin is a big liability rn, urshifu does everything better

so you either drop pala

or drop urshifu, which js a worse option but always valid if you eant to use palafin

[cerulean totem]

try to find pokemon that synergise well with weezing, intimidate mons work well and protosynthesis is also quite good, most weezing fans (including me) use it with booster speed roaring moon with tailwind, knock off and breaking swipe

so i’d add scarf lando-t, roaring moon and gholdengo

and then probably another spore immunity so probably amoonguss/ogerpon

just as some first thoughts

[fair marlin]

what would I replace one of them with?

[analog shell]

ah, got it done hours ago

ran flutter, rilla, incin and urshi water

[cerulean totem]

seems mighty fine imo

[cerulean totem]

yeah that’s fine, although rilla isn’t the best due to neutralising gas stopping grassy surge

[cerulean totem]

a fire type, entei is my personal favourite rn, although people quite like incin too

[fair marlin]

would Chandelure do good? cause it checks enemy fire types with flash fire

[cerulean totem]

also instead of booster bundle go booster flutter mane, so you don’t stack up on water types but still get fast icy wind support

[fair marlin]

I have violet not scarlet

also I really don't like flutter

[cerulean totem]

if you want, althouhh the rain should be more than enough to stop them

[cerulean totem]

alright

also tera on amoonguss is grass, this is probably a mistake

[fair marlin]

plus no one wants to host their world so I can catch a Flutter everyone I've tried to strike a deal with say only if I host to let them shiny hunt all violet paradoxes

[cerulean totem]

and you really want at least a few speed evs on pala if you’re gonna use it

[fair marlin]

this includes even trading for a flutter

[cerulean totem]

and glide on rilla over drain punch?

[fair marlin]

this is an older team build so some moves are different

[cerulean totem]

i gtg now but just think about type synergies and overlapping

[fair marlin]

what would you recommend in place of a paradox if anything?

plus part of it is, I don't wanna rely so heavily on legendaries cause then I gotta bench my entire team from my primary playthrough

[wild sinew]

Use #6 but rain

[dense nebula]

Woops

That was supposed to be rain anyway

https://pokepast.es/41ad1faae180bb96 this better

[wild sinew]

Give Tornadus the mental herb or Rocky Helmet, games dont last long enough for damp rock to be a valuable item, especially when you're using Hyper Offence.

Invest in defence on Amoonguss and go Bold rather than Modest, not really an offensive piece. Should also be running Clear Smog over Giga Drain, tho if you really want an attack, Leaf Storm is your best option.

Run bulky Adamant Urshifu, crucial for living stuff like Specs Flutter Mane when you Tera

Roaring Moon is odd here and overlaps with Tornadus, better off as something like Landorus or Flutter Mane to help you against Raging Bolt.

Tera Ice Ice Shard is odd, it's the main stab you want to be clicking hitting so much of the meta so consider Ice Spinner instead, also helps vs Psyspam now that Roaring Moon is gone.

Bolt really prefers Protect over Thunder when running a Calm Mind set.

[wild sinew]

Yes, Go Choice Scarf Urshifu though.

And as said earlier, Giga Drain Amoonguss isn't very good

[wild sinew]

This is fine, just run Life Orb Bloodmoon and a second attack like Dazzling Gleam or Uproar over Double Kick on Farigiraf. A lot more consistent and immidiete.

[fair marlin]

#1059704283072831499 messagegot anything you can add on? I'm not sure what to change

[wild sinew]

Run EV spreads from the Strategy Dex, go Incineroar over Urshifu, and one of Archaludon, Landorus, Flutter Mane over Iron Bundle

[fair marlin]

why incineroar over urshifu?

Isn't Incineroar at a disadvantage by not using fire well in rain?

[wild sinew]

It's primarily a support mon so that less impactful

Good synergy with your grass types and helps Palafin switch in a lot easier.

I'll still recommend Urshifu because even hero form Palafin is worse but if you really want to use it I can't stop you

[dense nebula]

Protect? Foul play?

[wild sinew]

Protect ideally

[fair marlin]

how is Palafin worse exactly? doesn't it's hero form attack rival that of SwSh Zacian?

[wild sinew]

Surging Strikes and Unseen Fist is an insane combo of insane moves

Intimidate is very common in the meta so Palafin will often find itself at -1 Attack, Surging Strikes can crit and ignore the attack drop.

Unseen Fist is probably the single most broken ability in vgc, hitting through the best move in the game.

[fair marlin]

I get it now, though is there anything besides flutter mane? I tried striking deals with people before but they want absurd things like me hosting my world so they can shiny hunt all violet paradoxes just so I could get 1 Flutter, one person actually tried saying they'll only trade me one or let me catch one for a 5 perfect IV shiny Hisui Zoroark

[wild sinew]

Landorus and Archaludon are options

[fair marlin]

why them specifically if I may ask?

didn't lando lose a good portion of it's good moves?

[wild sinew]

Singles moves yes

But I'm talking about the Incarante form anyway.
It and Archaludon are good abusers of rain with their signature move, and both have a good matchup into Raging Bolt which otherwise beats the majority of your team

[fair marlin]

I might take Archaludon cause that's one less legend for me to hunt down

[dense nebula]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2037964040-sx23tmgcys664688gkeil67qlnpua6ppw

[fair marlin]

So let's see, my new team is:

Tornadus-I, Urshifu (water), Rillaboom, Incineroar, Archaludon, Amoonguss

does that seem okay?

[wild sinew]

Yeah it works fine

[fair marlin]

what tera types for each?

[wild sinew]

They have options

Dark/Steel
Water/Grass
Grass/Fire/Poison
Grass/Water/Poison/Fairy/Ghost/Dragon
Grass/Fairy
Water

[fair marlin]

think dark for Tornadus so he doesn't get prankster + taunted

for incineroar.... that's a tough one, maybe dragon?

[fair marlin]

also I love how Amoonguss only has 1 tera option XD

but speaking of which is there anything else that can do his role well or not really?

just looking towards possibilities to stamp out stacked up weaknesses if possible

[wild sinew]

Not really, Amoonguss is just really good with Archaludon

[fair marlin]

got it

[fair marlin]

do the movesets for the party members not getting switched out look okay? aka Rilla, Amoonguss, Urshifu

[wild sinew]

Urshifu would run Scarf with U-turn over Ice Punch or Aqua Jet, and Mystic Water would run Detect over Ice Punch.

Rillaboom wants Grassy Glide and Protect over Drain Punch and Knock Off now that it's not holding the Assault Vest, if you're running the next most common item Miracle Seed, I'd highly recommend Tera Grass.

[fair marlin]

I guess I'll replace ice punch cause aqua jet in rain can be a good revenge kill move

[fair marlin]

sorry to bother you again but what ability for Archaludon?

[wild sinew]

Stamina with Body Press is best

[fair marlin]

https://pokepast.es/2ef73ded3ae7b4e7 alright, new line up with everything you mentioned

[wild sinew]

• Strategy Dex EV spreads, 252/252 can screw you over especially on Rillaboom
• Scarf on Urshifu, especially because you get the power boost from rain
• Miracle Seed Rillaboom, Wood Hammer > Drain Punch
• Sitrus Berry Incineroar, hazards aren't a thing in vgc, you also probably want Flare Blitz over Protect

[fair marlin]

doesn't the rain mess with flare blitz though?

also what EV spread for Rillaboom?

[wild sinew]

Rain won't always be up and it still serves as strong STAB that can hit Grass types

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/ for your EV needs

[fair marlin]

got it, guessing Scarf is the more popular Urshifu?

oh good glory the ev training's gonna be fun

[wild sinew]

Yeah outspeeding Flutter Mane is huge

[placid bluff]

https://pokepast.es/f9db61d91154f162

First time trying to make a proper comp team, I’d really like to include Palosand. Opinions on it so far? Advice is much appreciated.

[ornate cloak]

https://pokepast.es/0ea2b26e41392d86

Dragon Cheer

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[burnt surge]

I thought Dragon Cheer was banned

Or is it not banned any more

[tulip totem]

tournament banned but ladder allows it iirc

at least until they fix the bug

[ornate cloak]

How's the team tho?

[burnt surge]

idk I don't vgc

[cerulean totem]

it’s banned for tourneys i think

[topaz mountain]

https://pokepast.es/2287f1d0a65a87da

Anything I can change to make it better

[topaz edge]

https://pokepast.es/f6277eb27f22226b Lemme know if any spreads or anything should be changed, I'm trying to just get closer to masterball rank since i havent in a long time

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

I'll be blunt, Palosand is unviable in vgc, the only viable pokemon here are Armarouge and Urshifu but they're using the wrong sets and are usually not together.

Probably look into a Smogon tier for better chances w Palosand

[winter gulch]

armarouge is niche too with iron crown around tbh

take a sample :/

[distant stump]

Debatable

[wild sinew]

Unfortunately just too much set up, especially for a slow team that gets Gleamed or Ice Spinnered to death.

[distant stump]

but yeah that teams kinda wack

[winter gulch]

I said niche, not usuable :/

[distant stump]

Yeah ig

[wild sinew]

Harc is a bit weird here as it's a very HO Pokemon and it makes the team unnecessarily weak to Intimidate, going Entei and making Dragonite Choice Band is your strongest option.

Invest some Physical Defence on Ogrepon, even with Intimidate, physical attackers are still the majority of the meta.

Thundurus doesn't really do anything here and you might as well go Flutter Mane or Raging Bolt for a consistent special attacker.

[wild sinew]

Glimmora prefers Tera Grass, not keeping the Urshifu weakness is huge.

Walking Wake is just not great and gives you a third Fairy weakness, Flutter Mane works better if you want a sun Pokemon but you could also go rain and Urshifu in this slot which is more convenient for Rillaboom.

Dragonite needs Tera Normal's damage output for kills. Consider Incineroar in this slot for a fwg core if you go Urshifu by the way

[topaz edge]

https://pokepast.es/46fc6f9212bbd08a thoughts on the new spreads and the urshifu and incin?

[wild sinew]

its fine, just go 4 Def instead of SpD on Pao and use Adamant 212 Spe Urshifu.

[worn turtle]

Ok I’m trying to make a team centered around rampardos. Using rock slide and iron head for sheer force on rampardos and head smash for some wall breaking action. Also a tailwind staraptor, with moves that cover some of rampardos’ weaknesses.
What Pokémon should I add or improve pre-existing ones?

[ornate cloak]

Maybe add some way to heal the life orb and head smash recoil

Smth like Amoonguss Polen Puff or a Pokemon with Heal Pulse

[chilly jasper]

Firstly
Rampardos sucks
Secondly i recommend prankster tailwind setters like tornadus or whimsicot

[fair marlin]

@wild sinew so sorry to ping you but what's the reason for the 27 IV in speed for Amoonguss again?

[wild sinew]

Underspeeding Min speed Base 50s in trick room

[fair marlin]

got it

[slim finch]

https://pokepast.es/de82337c1fd64bc5 Iron boulder based, 'counter meta' team. Thoughts?

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[austere wasp]

Idk what meta ur trying to counter

Only can see lando I and ogerpon w as "counter meta" honestly

[slim finch]

Aight

[dusty rock]

https://pokepast.es/3244412deba4f318
Knowing fully well how inexperienced I am I will gladly take any feedback. I'm just trying to have the team hold it's own against metas like torn/urshi and lando/heatran. Rain dance got commented on so I will clarify that it's for odd times to guarantee a KO or to slow down sun teams, it's not something I plan on spamming since it hinders Incineroar.

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fresh flicker]

Ok then,
-Urshifu-R is better then Basculegion. It's better as it can use CC or SS immediately.
-If you want a secondary Fake out user, Rillaboom is a great alternative then Amoongus to it being able to use tailwind effectively itself.
-Flutter Sp.Att Booster > Hands its a great tailwind abuser and provides so much to the team. Especially that Raging bolt is running around.
-Sitrus over Cloak on Incin, and cloak on Torn, it's much more beneficial for inciniroars longevity.

• Everything else is fine. But..
  If you so wish for more answers to bolt. Latias is a good pick over Torn. And AV Gambit > Pao if you do choose to go latias.

And then you could go Ogerpon wellspring > Rillaboom, or Miracle Seed boom > AV boom as Gambit will be occupying the AV.

[dusty rock]

I appreciate the feedback and will keep it in mind. I won't be swapping to Urshi right now ( I really want to use Basc but if it doesn't work out I will swap ) but I will probably refer to you and use Flutter and Rilla instead. I very much appreciated your points.

[dusty rock]

https://pokepast.es/0e7546c0c002e753
Would this be considered a more fleshed out and optimized team then? Ignoring my obsession over Basculegion of course. I'm also not sure how to look at Torn now, with a covert cloak I don't worry about fake out so can I drop protect for taunt? I can also see a clear argument for swapping out rain dance in favor of taunt.

[fresh flicker]

Other then Basc. Yes.

However you can swap protect for taunt.

[sterile cedar]

https://pokepast.es/6f3076e8363e7f62
Giga tailwind offense

Tailwind raging neck outspeed a chien pow

[cerulean totem]

cloak oh whimsicott

pao set isn’t the best, just go standard pao

bolt kinda wants calm mind over thunderbolt

lashout on hearthflame is odd

[dense nebula]

T

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/76b4b65c8ceec744 possible last post. Keeping landorus over incineroar until im higher ladder, think i have the correct tera's and Evs to survive shenanigans or stupidly powerful teams

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant stump]

Overall this is fine

• I recommend removing spinner for detect on Urshifu, and switching to tera water

Detect is pretty mandatory on non scarf sets and the extra damage is really nice

I just find urshifu doesent have enough bulk to properly use a defensive tera

• Dont run tera ground Archaludon

Ground is a pretty ass defensive type

Grass/Fairy have much more value in general

then evs are a bit off

[dense nebula]

I could replace the item for scarf but i need ice spinner for thr amount of expanding force teams im fighting against

The*

[distant stump]

Ok replace aqua jet then

[dense nebula]

Ok

[distant stump]

You really really want detect

[fair marlin]

So what 4 Pokémon would be my “default” selection on this comp?

https://pokepast.es/9bb9991a4f692d4a

[distant stump]

For evs

• Switch to adamant urshifu
• I recommend timid Flutter, but It should be fine modest
• I recc running adamant Lando T, and you dont need that much defense investment

I got no clue about arch

But you should be modest

[fair marlin]

I’m not using flutter

[distant stump]

Tornadus + Incin + Rilla + Urshifu
Archa + Tornadus + Amoonguss + Incin/urshifu/rilla

[wild sinew]

252/0/28/36+/164/28 is nice for arch

[distant stump]

talking to the other guy sorry

[fair marlin]

Oh I see mb

[distant stump]

That should be good

[fair marlin]

Got it, thanks

[fair marlin]

The EV training won’t be hard, my brother gave me 5 fresh-start mochi and the “power” items

Cause 5 of them I’m using through the fresh playthrough (don’t wanna breeze through the DLC too easily)

[dense nebula]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2039511068

[fair marlin]

You the one with Archaludon or Iron crown?

Cause my replays flip me around sometimes

[dense nebula]

No

Archaludon

Im neotis_

[fair marlin]

Ah kk

[dense nebula]

Made a new account with my discord name so its easier to see. So far im 6 wins 1 loss with the team

Lost to tera steel latios but it was close

[cerulean totem]

honestly there is a severe lack of protect here

urshi def wants it over ice spinner or aqua jet

also sitrus feels a lot better than rocky helm on amoonguss for me rn, but that’s an opinion

[dense nebula]

I can run booster energy on fluttermane and replace tbolt with protect

[silk nest]

Im trying to make a gimmick team around hustle and supersweet syrup but really struggling with finishing it off, what should my last 2 pokemon be and should I make any changes?

[urban cloak]

the shroom and the buff cat could work well

at least 1

of them

[silk nest]

i was thinking putting incineroar but didnt know how well intimidate would help

[urban cloak]

but its not just the ability fake out knock off parting shot is a great trifecta

[silk nest]

true, especially parting shot into hydrapple or something

[urban cloak]

and the shroom would just let ur liligant be safe

[silk nest]

thats also 3 grass tho

[urban cloak]

incin also wall the biggest counter to your liligant firepon

[urban cloak]

true but the only other good follow me user is indeed and orge

and orge is also grass

[silk nest]

i do think having shroom would help, because i am running into lilligant getting one shot by flutters

so i either have to throw away tera or put on amoong for the eject button hydrapple

not amoong sorry

[urban cloak]

you could go taunt firepon for flutter resistance

well then its more type overlap

[silk nest]

i have taunt tornadus i just need to use it better

[urban cloak]

mystic water urshifu always 1 shots flutter

u just need to survive

which depends since there is a few flutter builds

[silk nest]

alr i added incineroar and i think this will work well

im thinking wellspring oger for follow me to resist fire type moves

well it doesnt resist cause part grass but

also urshifu counter

alr this is the "finished" result still a WIP tho

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/67353569c7315640 does this count as hyper offensive sun

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

yes

dont use Lando though

[chilly jasper]

https://pokepast.es/62dca00ecf149311

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wanton abyss]

Thank you for sharing! Looks like solid stuff.

[austere wasp]

Solid stuff

[wild sinew]

A lot of the changes would be down to preference tbh

[austere wasp]

Yea

[chilly jasper]

Appreciate it folks, had some help from Leo, originally I didn't really want to use flutter but then I remembered how good flutter is

[lost phoenix]

https://pokepast.es/4828ebafca2bbd0a have been running this for a while but am undecided, should i be running this configuration or scarf dark shifu + sash pao?

Heat wave is kinda a weird pick but trust me im seriously weak to bullet punch metagross

[fresh flicker]

Leo did not even win one. T-T

[cerulean totem]

yeah basically

[chilly jasper]

Wdym

[fresh flicker]

Check news.

[chilly jasper]

Oooh

[wild sinew]

You probably want to replace one with smth like Gambit, Lando T, or if you're feeling crazy, Scarf Gapdos.

Personally don't see the Metagross weakness rn, Torn and Rilla struggle to damage it but you have double dark, including faster Sucker Punch, as well as Gouging Fire, and Flutter Mane which has the option to Shadow Ball.

[lost phoenix]

band does too much damage and i dont like my sash broken

i did try lando t but it felt underwhelming

[wild sinew]

Idk, Howl stuff is really nice for it and Fairy Ground is silly

[lost phoenix]

it is but like not a lando t fan in general rn

ill try it again tho

[fair marlin]

Alright so I adjusted the Tera types for my VGC reg F team, any thoughts?

https://pokepast.es/840fd135b653c6db

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

They're fine

I'd still recommend Tera Grass Rillaboom tho

[fair marlin]

Good, I saw before some didn’t get changed or had bad types

[fair marlin]

Oh okay

Archaludon with a giant heart crown on it’s head is gonna be a funny sight

[fair marlin]

Speaking of Pokémon who can learn taunt and knock off what taunt users should I look out for regarding using Tornadus Tera dark, and also does Covert Cloak deny knock off smacking it off?

[wild sinew]

Opposing Tornadus and Whimsicott.
Cloak does not deny Knock Off

[fair marlin]

Ok, didn’t know if it did since it stops additional effects like fake out flinch

[fair marlin]

how does Maushold fair in VGC? @wild sinew

[wild sinew]

unfortunately outclassed by Clefairy as friend guard support

[fair marlin]

Unfortunate, I like the chaos incarnate that is Population bomb Maushold

[distant stump]

Just run Pop bomb smh

Pop bomb is still good I swear

[wild sinew]

Im not a believer

[fair marlin]

What Ogerpon are usable in VGC?

[wild sinew]

All are usable, however Id say Wellspring and Hearthflame are the 'good' ones.

[fair marlin]

Kk cause seeing gameplay videos with people using it makes it look like fun

[fair marlin]

Tailwind Tornadus would be a good partner for it right?

[wild sinew]

Works with both yeah

[fair marlin]

So I’m doing a bit of my own research for VGC teams and I’m starting to get an idea on how to go about it

@wild sinew how does this look? Decided to try building a Gholdengo as a potential anti-stall mon

Wait it said invalid

https://pokepast.es/557f5ecf86aab31c

There we go

[wild sinew]

Big thing is stall doesn't exist in vgc

[fair marlin]

Oh

[fair marlin]

So from what I understand there’s the offensive core

2 Bulk and 1 support in a comp right?

Or something like that

[wild sinew]

Depends on what pokemon you see as bulk

[fair marlin]

Archaludon

He’s bulk right?

[wild sinew]

Ah yeah there are

There are bulky offensive and bulky support Pokemon, but not something plain bulky like Toxapex

[fair marlin]

Alright did a few more tweaks, how does this look?

https://pokepast.es/95a8cb7023af597c

I really wanna try a team with Ogerpon as it looks crazy fun to use

[wild sinew]

Wellspring is usually an alternative to Urshifu, tho Hearthflame could work here

Just without rain dance or Gardevoir which is unfortunately unviable.

[fair marlin]

Alright so flame it is

Also darn it, I love Gardevoir, like actually like the pokemon I’m not one of THOSE weirdos

[fair marlin]

But if I used wellspring what would I use? Another bulk support and build wellspring as offense?

[wild sinew]

It's good on a lot of Balance compositions, and Glimmora Tailwind

Nice on quite a few Tornadus sun stuff

[fair marlin]

Glimmora can learn tailwind?

[wild sinew]

I mean teams using Tornadus + Glimmora

[fair marlin]

Oh

I think I wanna give Wellspring a shot

Cause tornadus using rain does get a bit of control over fire Ogerpon

[fair marlin]

Who are some good partners for Wellspring, for sure Archaludon is one

[wild sinew]

Arch generally prefers Amoonguss and Urshifu so it's hard to use Wellspring on those teams

[fair marlin]

Dang it, I got a shiny one I wanna use but wanna try Ogerpon too D:

[wild sinew]

Wellspring

[fair marlin]

Of course paradox mons everywhere

[fair marlin]

Wait there’s one with Magmar? That’s a bizarre choice

[wild sinew]

Yeah

But I wouldn't recommend it, tough to pilot

[fair marlin]

Oh yeah wasn’t considering it, just thinking “out loud” you know?

[fair marlin]

Why does it prefer those two over Wellspring Ogerpon anyway?

[wild sinew]

Pollen Puff is really nice so you can keep stacking stamina boosts. Amoonguss' typing also helps with Flutter Mane and Urshifu, bad matchups for Arch, while Wellspring takes a lot from the two. Urshifu has better synergy with Amoonguss and in rain is one of the most broken Pokemon out there.

[fair marlin]

Guessing Rillaboom is a must with them too?

[fair marlin]

okay so the team with Tornadus, Urshifu, Amoonguss, Incineroar, Rillaboom and Archaludon lost

and lost again

this team sucks

6 losses in a row I'm dumping the team

they weren't even at least close matches

so total results in 7 battles

6 losses

1 win

[fair marlin]

https://pokepast.es/f2a66d81496635bd

Alright so I built a team around Ogerpon (water) any thoughts?

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pulsar trout]

revaroom?

[fresh flicker]

First off, why revavroom?

And why sunny day?

Because Sunny day seems counter intuitive from what you're trying to do.

[cerulean totem]

personally i like tera grass incin, it’s good for it defensively and you get amoonguss spore, even though grass is generally a weak defensive type

[fair marlin]

I forgot to change it but I made a new comp since this

https://pokepast.es/a922fb440d7f4fbd

@cerulean totem @fresh flicker Here’s the new comp

[fair marlin]

It was an experimental thing that went nowhere, trust me, the outcome was far from favorable

[cerulean totem]

you def. want spiky shield over u turn on oger

and also follow me is busted too

[fair marlin]

Should I do more bulk then?

[cerulean totem]

nah oger evs are fine

dual screens archaludon isn’t what i’d reccomend but i’ve never tried

[fresh flicker]

I'd go:
Protect
Draco Meteor
Flash cannon
Electro Shor
On Arch woth stalwart IF you do want to use it.

[cerulean totem]

defensive tera is generally better on torn, i understand the reasoning for dark but it’s not really as good as say steel

[cerulean totem]

stamina bodypress is better mainly

[fresh flicker]

However there are better options.

[cerulean totem]

i’d go AV electro shot, flash cannon, body press and dragon move

it’s the best set rn

[fair marlin]

It was pretty funny when I tried it

[cerulean totem]

also i’d still go tera grass incin

i’m a tera grass incin believer

[fresh flicker]

I think Tera water in better for incin.

[fair marlin]

I chose Archaludon cause of the bulk and the fact I got this a couple days ago

[cerulean totem]

whyyyyy

trust me

tera grass has so many benefits

i believe

[fresh flicker]

Water is a better defensive typing general.

I do not want a weakness to 50 types.

[cerulean totem]

yeah but specifically for sitrus berry incin grass is so useful

[fair marlin]

Why for the Berry?

[cerulean totem]

because if you are a safety goggles variant then water is better

due to you already having a powder immunity

since @fair marlin’s team only has one spore immunity, tera grass incin is definitely better

i agree grass is generally a bad tera type due to grass being a bad type, but it fits really well here

[fair marlin]

Okay so regarding Reflect, does it boost the damage body press does?

[cerulean totem]

oh shii i never tried

i think it should

since it boosts your def. stat and body press uses def. stat, including boosts

that’s a cool tech actually

[fair marlin]

The idea with reflect was to oppress opposing Ogerpon and Urshifu

And if possible make Body Press a bigger nuisance

[cerulean totem]

No i get the idea; it seems very interesting, it’s just i haven’t tried it out personally and it’s the first time I’ve seen it. Mind if I try out your team or a variation of it? I’ll send a paste if i find a better version

[fair marlin]

Sure

[cerulean totem]

it’s a fun team but tbh the archaludon set isn’t the best, AV would be fire tho

[fair marlin]

So just change the held item?

Oh wait then it has to be full offense

[cerulean totem]

it would be this

and personally i only brought torn to one game in about 20 mins of playing, it felt underwhelming damage wise when i had the other pokemon to choose from that didn’t need tailwind or rain support

and yeah i changed tera on incin to grass, ended up using it two or three times in various situations because it is the superior tera

i’ll change the set and try some more games

[fair marlin]

Incineroar is a support

[cerulean totem]

yeah i meant tornadus was not that strong in most of my matchups

[fair marlin]

He’s not meant to hit hard either

[cerulean totem]

i meant the support he offered felt not that useful

but i’m playing more and it seems good in certain matchups

[fair marlin]

Urshifu and Ogerpon are the main focus, Flutter is assurance

[cerulean totem]

also amoonguss would go hard with the team but that would be a shift in the playstyle

[fair marlin]

Who would be switched?

[cerulean totem]

idk it was just a thought, perhaps wogerpon but tbh oger is a key part of the team

[fair marlin]

My original team had Amoonguss, Tornadus, Urshifu, Incineroar, Archaludon, Rillaboom and it didn’t work out in my favor

[cerulean totem]

i’ll test around

it’s fun, the AV set works much better, as i expected

[fair marlin]

I can stick to the Ogerpon team right?

And still see success?

[cerulean totem]

probably, change the oger and archaludon set and should be good

was getting decent elo on showdown with it

[fair marlin]

So the follow me + Spiky Shield set for Ogerpon?

[cerulean totem]

yeah

[fair marlin]

Alright mind running a test for me quickly and see how it performs? I’m not home to test atm

[cerulean totem]

i have already

it’s good

[fair marlin]

Awesome

Thanks

[chilly jasper]

If you aren't running stamina on arch what are you doing

[fair marlin]

I’m still running Stamina personally

[chilly jasper]

Good haha

Stalwart would be good on most pokemon but not using stamina is underutilizing what archaludon excels at, staying on the field

[fair marlin]

https://pokepast.es/6f4c6e0cd78bc2a8 here we go, I switched Draco Meteor for Dragon Pulse or should I switch back to Meteor?

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[chilly jasper]

It's honestly preference, I believe the sample uses meteor but I prefer to use pulse to not ever neet to switch

[fair marlin]

Aight so Pulse it is

I felt the same way cause it removes all my stamina stacking when I switch

[willow owl]

What is better
https://pokepast.es/22e0b32296dcb0a3
https://pokepast.es/36e11de4ee24e47f

[cerulean totem]

yeah that is true, although i personally run draco because i feel like pulse has underwhelming damage and tbh if you’re on the field for that long, body press is gonna be your best attack anyway - sometimes just dropping the raging bolt turn one is so valuable

although it is preference

[wild sinew]

unfortunately a lot of the Pokemon here are too gimmicky and unviable to work out.

Azu is too slow to be a consistent sweeper and has next to 0 support, getting Belly Drum off will already be a challenge, and if you dont, Flamigo will be pretty much useless. PZ is frail and is not surviving as a tr setter when vulnerable to Fake Out, half of the metas hits, and Amoonguss, not slow enough to be an abuser of Trick Room either. Meowstic is frail and passive, outclassed by Grimmsnarl which is already niche. Electric Terrain Bolt is never really worth it as games go by so fast in VGC, and you dont have an electric resist to ever click Discharge.

recommend looking at Charlotte teams to get an idea of whats good rn
https://cut-explorer.stalruth.dev/regional-charlotte

[pseudo current]

https://pokepast.es/760c0d27f6a024fb

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[austere wasp]

Looks cool

[pseudo current]

what does?

[austere wasp]

Dragapult

[pseudo current]

nice

thx

[austere wasp]

I like ur team

[pseudo current]

like 100%

no changes?

[austere wasp]

Well you can add farigiraf for Zapdos

Or tornadus for zapdos

The 5 seems solid enough

[pseudo current]

can i ask why people dont like zap?

i feel like its a solid pick across the board

[austere wasp]

Its just a slow tailwinder

Id recommend rocky helmet

[pseudo current]

yeah i had that and then i put life orb

[austere wasp]

When I used it it was kinda weak in everything

[pseudo current]

fair

[austere wasp]

Its not so bad but

[pseudo current]

ur right tbh

[austere wasp]

There r just better options

[pseudo current]

also uh tbh i like slow tailwinds

bc if you give the accurate powerful moves then they are also another decent mon on the field with the option to tailwind for late game or to catch up if you need

like this would be my replacement for zap

https://pokepast.es/ae36c4b8f6f187fb

also yes i am aware that those are not accurate moves but intimidate is nice and clear amulate intimidate, and it beats all the fire water grass core, and it has optional tailwind and recovery

[austere wasp]

Yeah

It really depends on 0ref

Pref*

[pseudo current]

thx

sorry for all the messages, i just dont know why people dont like slow tailwind, is it because they just dont have that immediate burst of power? bc like you can play late game tailwind but idk if thats what people dont like

[tropic tinsel]

https://pokepast.es/a0a0f854ab14c21e

We are not cooking shit, fr

[wild sinew]

[cerulean totem]

4hp evs on chien pao should go to defense and apart from zapdos, i ususally go tera ghost on dragapult, but tbf tera steel is a fool innovation

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/49f935d408e36fce some memes im messing around with

mainly using iron hands

[cerulean totem]

do you want feedback?

because if the aim of the team is ‘meme’ then feedback doesn’t really work

the only valid feedback would be don’t mem

[dense nebula]

dunni

dunno

just trying to see if triage healing works with belly drum iron hands

[dense nebula]

if you've got any ideas for a triage based iron hands team lmk

chien pao is just to decrease defense so i do more dmg

[cerulean totem]

icl belly drum iron hands swept me a few weeks ago with sinistcha

like i had no way of winning both matches, i feel like i played flawlessly and still lost 2-0

[dense nebula]

icl?

[cerulean totem]

i can’t lie

[dense nebula]

ah

[cerulean totem]

amoonguss would be good on it too

since pollen puff, redirect, and spore to punish slow playing + switches

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/1de29fe97d7d0de7 kinda of a more serious team

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pseudo current]

https://pokepast.es/1c64ca756332448a

[wild sinew]

Don't think the team is salvageable unfortunately
WP Goltress is in general pretty bad, especially without a way to self proc, and Pult really likes CB to be doing damage, never a consistent form of support because of its frailty and better mons for the job existing.

[twilit pollen]

when in doubt play tornshifu

at least they rembered to pack the waterbear

[dense nebula]

wait

rage fists counter doesnt reset

[hasty owl]

Is my new team up to standard https://pokepast.es/a19c9199467e30d0

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

Looks decent, though Flutter Mane is way too frail here, invest in defence and aim to at least survive Joly Icicle Crash from Chien Pao

You'll want Torkoal over Entei to give your Trick Room mode more value though. Farigiraf wants to be part of the team in some way rather than just a Pokemon to make priority spam an easy matchup

I don't get why you have Iron Bundle here, Raging Bolt, Landorus, Chien Pao, or if you want a water type, Walking Wake, just synergise with the team a lot better and most outperform Iron Bundle in general.

[hasty owl]

Ok

https://pokepast.es/3c5fc5954f0065c0

I fixed the team up

[ornate cloak]

https://pokepast.es/4cfc80b7fb73ebed

[cerulean totem]

run grassy glide on oger and i’d reccomend tera water/grass on incin with a different item

[wild sinew]

^
Safety Goggles with Fake Out over Helping Hand or Knock Off

Then look at Strategy Dex for EVs
Or use the sliders to avoid wasting EVs

[vapid cape]

This team isn't gonna be very good- it's a initial concept of what I think would be good to make Shifu do as much as possible- looking for any mons that fill the roles of my current ones better:
https://pokepast.es/834b220e32d12b57
Shifu is obviously the main sweeper, Tornadus is there to set him up for a sweep and disrupt other support mons, Incineroar just serves as general utility and supporting shifu against a double threat he can't deal with by himself, Rillaboom is my other main phys attacker with speed control in drum beat to further help shifu against things like tailwind Fmane teams, amoongus is self explanatory, and raging bolt is there to clean up and/or deal with alot of Shifu's main threats like Tornadus.
I think individually they all work well but they're not very cohesive as a team

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fresh flicker]

I think Sp. Att booster Flutter Mane > Bolt, it's just an excellent mon in general, and Lando I > Amoongus to help against bolt matchups.

Amoongus is just a hindrance with rillaboom on the team.

Although bolt does help against opposing shifu and torn, the team can handle them rather easily.

Also I'd recommend Covert cloak > Damp rock, games go too fast for rock to have any value and cloak is just a better item to prevent fake out.

Also I recommend using different spreads recommended in the Regulation F sets.

Also Detect > SD, Protect and detect is a valuable moves which provide defensive counterplay to anything that's not an Urshifu-R or Iron Boulder

Sitrus on incin, Hazards are not good in VGC.

Tera Fire on Boom, Tera Water or Grass on Incin, and Dark on Torn to avoid Taunt.

With all these changes you get this: https://pokepast.es/565e0744fd71de1b

Parting Shot on inciniroar allows it to pivot into another mon while weakening the opposition.

Fake Out on Rilla also allows for it to Fake Out the opponent if Incin is not on the field.

@vapid cape

[vapid cape]

Thank you for the help! Was trying it on the ladder and got absolutely slaughtered so I definitely need to make changes

Also is Protect not objectively better for Shifu because of more PP?

[vapid cape]

Was thinking of subbing out Incineroar for Mold Breaker Fake Out Tinkaton, mainly to deal with armour tail farigaraf but also because I'm simply not bringing Incineroar into alot of fights. Is this a good idea or no?

[fresh flicker]

If that's the case then you could also use a Fari of your own.

Helps against opposing tailwind AND trick room teams.

All you have to do is replace torn.

[vapid cape]

Replacing torn removes my rain setup for Shifu, though, and also makes Lando's spread move 80 acc

Out of the 10-15 games I've played I've only brought Incineroar to about 3 so it just seemed more logical to replace my fakeout user with a better one

I'll try a Fari if Tinkaton doesn't go well

[fresh flicker]

Tinkaton isn't really viable at all, it's too flawed to be good. Besides for me Fari matches aren't too hard, you just have to manage it.

If it does to prove much of an issue for you, you can drop jet on shifu for Tuant.

However if you do go fari, Urshifu-R is just fine without rain, it's Tera water Surging Strikes are quite powerful, and you can drop Sandsear for sub.

So calling tinkaton as a "better fake out user" is not really good to how much Incin brings to the table.

[cerulean totem]

incin is actually fine into trick room teams if you play it well, don’t fake out if they have farigiraf and use a lot of knock offs and parting shots

the slow(ish) speed stat and bulk are good tools

if you have trouble into farigiraf TR teams, i’d reccomend dropping taunt for prot on torn maybe?

[vapid cape]

Yeah, Tinkaton is kinda just being used as a fakeout user which you're right, isnt all that viable

[viscid siren]

https://pokepast.es/fae5554b9d17838e js made this team based on one i saw online, would appreciate any tips on how to maximize it efficiently

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[austere wasp]

Looks efficient enough if you ask me

[wild sinew]

The 6 is good

EVs are the problem

[viscid siren]

hwo could i fix that

[wild sinew]

You want Max Atk instead of Hp on Chien Pao
Adamant Wellspring
Move the 4 SpA from Entei into Atk
Run Adamant/Jolly Landorus-T
The team wants SpA Booster Flutter Mane here

[viscid siren]

hmmm alright thank you

i’ll make those chnages rn

[steep geyser]

https://pokepast.es/3778f96ea8f746df made this with suicune + volc and darkshifu, does it look like there's anything that needs changing?

(Also I'm not all that well-versed in vgc, but I'm starting to get into it)

[steep geyser]

@winter gulch would you be able to look at my team if you have a free moment?

[pseudo current]

https://pokepast.es/d8e37805d26c45dc

i took inspiration from the basic team concepts used by brendan zhang in worlds 2018 and decided that the concept was good and that in the current format and meta it could be very useful, so I made some updates to that team to help it feel complete and to function with each pokemon carrying their own weight and I have felt that it has somewhat done that, i just need some finishing touches on it

[burnt surge]

If you want to use Lax in TR why does it have a +Speed nature

[pseudo current]

thats against hyper offense teams that use tailwind and icy mist

like teams with torn

also this lax is designed with the idea that if you use it without tr it will still be a massive threat that you have to respect, so it works well in tr against certain types of teams and it works well out of tr against certain types of teams

oddly It works well

[wild sinew]

Suicune doesn't feel necessary here, esp with Icy Wind Flutter, best to run Wellspring there.

Lets you run Sitrus Incineroar freely too

Looks good otherwise

[wild sinew]

Unfortunately the power level is too high for this to be viable rn.

And iirc pinch berries were broken in 2018

Clops Lax is just less optimal than Fari BM, P2 Luna, Cress Luna, etc. Lax has less stats and immidiete pressure, and Clops does far too little on the field.

Zapdos is kinda mid, lacks the bulk or the utility to function as slow tw.

[steep geyser]

Gotcha, thank you 🤝

[slender kiln]

Amoonguss (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Pollen Puff
• Protect
• Spore
• Rage Powder

Ambipom (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Fake Out
• U-turn
• Fury Swipes
• Knock Off

Baxcalibur (F) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Icicle Spear
• Scale Shot
• Earthquake
• Dragon Dance

Ursaluna (F) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature

• Facade
• Close Combat
• Earthquake
• Play Rough

Glimmora @ Focus Sash
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

• Stealth Rock
• Mortal Spin
• Spikes
• Spiky Shield

Illumise (F) @ Lagging Tail
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Fake Tears
• Encore
• Tailwind
• Trick

Team I saw some success with in reg one, what should I change for reg F?

[burnt surge]

!pokepaste

[drifting onyx]

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180492013660/pokepaste2.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=2d3caf4b912c30f438c896f0b696d9c80bd50d9e5a4a8ed067bca9e5dbf6ff3c&

[uncut harness]

Okk

soo

https://pokepast.es/a913acc7f376caf7

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[uncut harness]

This is my Chi-Yu team for vgc

this is what I got so far

I dont know what other mons to use yet

I am thinking amoongus or maybe replacing Tornadus for Tork

[wild sinew]

This channel is meant for full teams only :(, asking for help to finish a team would go in one of the comp general channels or the VGC discord.

[uncut harness]

Ohh ok ok mb

@wild sinew https://pokepast.es/5d1f269834e5d3c9

I finished it

I just put mons that are good and for typing to see what works

I dont think this is good bc I sorta rushed this

[chilly jasper]

Hm not sure if I see rapid strike on torn sun

[ornate cloak]

Okay, so this is a TornShifu team, ik the EVs on WaterShifu might be a bit awkward but I could really use some suggestions

https://pokepast.es/bc997d498dbcd9ab

The strategy is very simple
Lead Incin, Torn, Parting Shot and Tailwind

Switch to Shifu, Rain Dance Surging Strikes

With Ferigaraf/Dragapult in the back

I think switching to Oger-Heartflame is probably better than Oger-Wellspring

Might reduce speed EVs on Pult for some sp def but idk

[wild sinew]

this is similar to your composition and has seen a lot of usage, would just recommend going for it
https://pokepast.es/58009709fa793a93

[wild sinew]

A lot of EVs being wasted so just recommend using spreads from the Strategy Dex.

Farigiraf as a priority block is overall pretty mid, as its esecially passove with Dragapult, which struggles to do damage without a boost from Pokemon like Chien-Pao. Just better off as Ursaluna-Bloodmoon which males the team more versatile giving you a Trick Room mode and a Pokemon tha can function fine in Tailwind. with that, youd go a second attack over Imprison on Farigiraf or even Helping Hand, just not consistent, esp with a Trick Room mode of your own.

[ornate cloak]

So, you recommend I use BloodMoon with better EV spreads?

What are your thoughts on team synergy?

[wild sinew]

Bloodmoom over Pult yeah

team synergises just fine

[ornate cloak]

Hm alright

Alr tysm

[vapid cape]

https://pokepast.es/8f1a460632306437
Would it be better to put tbolt on in place of Moonblast simply to deal with things like Politoed/Pellipper/Torn?

[wild sinew]

Unnecessary

[vapid cape]

Why is MBlast more valuable than tbolt?

[valid mesa]

Because it hits like a truck

[lost phoenix]

moonblast already does plenty to peli and torn while also being single target stab to break through common av mons like kingambit and rillaboom

[valid mesa]

Tbolt you're only really bringing as your 4th move on a Specs Flutter

[wild sinew]

Not to mention Tera Fairy Moonblast hits harder than a super effective Thunderbolt anyway

[lost phoenix]

except on peli but i believe tera fairy moonblast alrdy one shots peli

[hushed bough]

https://pokepast.es/da7f8919b7e893ce

Hi! Would someone please take a look at my team? Thanks!

[wild sinew]

You'll want a Speed Booster Gouging Fire to get off fast Howls, 252/4/20/0/68/164 is a spread that enables this.

Chien Pao looks awkward here and I think Kingambit is just much stronger, countering intimidate and using the redirection from Wellspring and Fake Out from Rillaboom to get off Swords Dances.

Farigiraf is fine but you may want to go Flutter Mane for a switch in to Fighting types, especially how well it synergises with Ogerpon to beat Urshifu-Rapid

[dense nebula]

does clear amulet just defeat the purpose of defiant

or does it still work

[wild sinew]

Yes

[willow burrow]

https://pokepast.es/1bae8a500b302b85

I built this last season because I love Typhlosion. Somehow it's performing pretty good right now but I wanna hear another opinion

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[north tree]

I would recommend running typhlosion hisui, slightly better stats and an immunity to fake out comes extremely handy (also looks sick).

I'd recommend taking Arcanine hisui and brute bonnet off the team and replacing them for glimmora and ogerpon wellspring.

Torn does not need heat rock but can instead have covert cloak with tera steel or rocky helmet with tera ghost.

Run protect on typhlo if you're not running specs goes a long way. If you aren't running specs on typhlo hisui then consider bulky specs flutter over sash.

[uncut harness]

https://pokepast.es/93deabbf540fb7e2

Okk this is the team I thought of

[north tree]

48def is wasting evs on torn, go 44def and 4spe as 44 gives the same stat number as 48.

Run booster speed flutter if you aren't already with icy wind over one of your attacks.

Chi-yu should have dark pulse over protect it's a specs set after all. Apart from this team is perfectly good it's standard chi flutter ho with Gambit over ursh dark.

[wild sinew]

^

[uncut harness]

The ev spreads I am bad at and icy wind flutter sounds like a good idea for more speed control

and I yeah idk why I put protect on specs chi

[uncut harness]

I like Gambit bc how bulkey and hit hard

I think he can do well against Urshifu

With tera grass

[uncut harness]

I put Modest Flutter bc I want the most dmg out of it

Although speed should be better

It already hits hard anyways

[uncut harness]

Are the ev spreads on Tornadus good here?

https://pokepast.es/846b678fe1f87b3f

[wild sinew]

Move 4 from Speed to special defence

[bleak robin]

How can i make this team better https://pokepast.es/71daf592f12396d5

[wild sinew]

Run Flare Blitz on Incineroar, over Will-O-Wisp or if you may, Knock Off. Important as Incineroar's main source of damage

Aqua Jet over U-turn on Urshifu and running bulk investment, 44/4/132 to live Tera Normal Dragonite and Specs Flutter Mane after tera is ideal.

Tera Dark on Tornadus as your slow and vulnerable to Taunt mirrors, Rocky Helmet Tera Steel is also an option to stick on the field.

Specs Flutter Mane should run Dazzling Gleam over Protect or Thunderbolt, spread damage is one of the biggest reasons Specs Flutter Mane is an effective cleaner. Needs bulk investment, at least 76/140 to live Jolly Chien Pao's Icicle Crash, they have a lot less to lose going for the speed tie thanks to Sash and you'd rather be safe.

Chien Pao benefits more from Tera Stellar offensively, and Ghost is the more popular one for survivability.

[wheat estuary]

https://pokepast.es/2e53fa5360d28f77

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wheat estuary]

woops more than 1 av

[wild sinew]

replace Rilla with Incin, fwg core and support for Archaludon, gets rid of your second AV

make Arch Tera Grass / Fary and Amoonguss Tera Water, they prefer defensive tera types and I assume you forgot to change.

make Flutter Mane bulkier for Chien Pao and have 4 SpD to not waste EVs

[wheat estuary]

what evs you thinking for mane?

[wild sinew]

76 / 140 physical bulk is the minimum Id go bring some from SpA and Speed depending on which numbers youre comfrtable with.

[wheat estuary]

im not sure whats good to run really new to vgc

[wild sinew]

I see

[wheat estuary]

https://pokepast.es/f4bd700ed9fa4c09 does this look ok?

[wild sinew]

Yes

[frigid heart]

rate a multi weather team my friend and i built
https://pokepast.es/9dab0034789bcea7

[wild sinew]

Multi weather unfort doesn't work rn

[frigid heart]

alr

[fresh flicker]

https://pokepast.es/1468666d30ad7aa4 I want to know how should I make a team for Archaludon.

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fresh flicker]

Note this is the first time I'm trying to build around it. For now I'm using pokemon I have former experience with.

[wild sinew]

Amoonguss over Rillaboom and this looks good

[distant stump]

Eh rilla is still fine then

[uncut harness]

https://pokepast.es/87538d21e5a3e885

Update version

[cerulean totem]

sometimes protect can be good on a specs mon

very rarely

like i think specs flutter with prot won or top cut a tournament recently

[cerulean totem]

this is fine, but i’d reccomend inveting less speed into flutter in exchange for more SpAtk or bulk, also consider tera stellar on urshifu-dark. i’d personally use tera dark but many people have been having success with tera stellar

Flutter Mane @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 116 HP / 204 Def / 132 SpA / 36 SpD / 20 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Protect
• Moonblast
• Icy Wind
• Shadow Ball

This is my current favourite booster speed flutter rn, it has good bulk, enough speed and decent SpAtk. Your set seems to have less special attack but similar bulk overall and the speed isn’t really needed due to booster speed, excluding the booster speed flutter mirror, but you seem to have enough counterplay for that

also goes without saying that if you want dazzling over moonblast, then go for it

[cerulean totem]

cool tech would be u-turn on rilla for self-stamina prock if you want

[cerulean totem]

https://pokepast.es/f52170c618391974 was kinda stuck in the EVs for this HO sun team and also was wondering if venusaur woild work better than lilligant-h

[uncut harness]

I never used tera stellar before so idk how it works

[cerulean totem]

stick to dark then

[wild sinew]

This is fine yeah

No need for change

[uncut harness]

Hmm alright imma practice for the in person event then

[dense nebula]

Anything on here that would be better than what i currently have

Current team v

[wild sinew]

Incineoar over Landorus

[narrow dock]

Any changes I should make

[sand minnow]

clear amulet on iron hands just seems better for the current state of the game

[pulsar trout]

level 100 is kinda nuts

[burnt surge]

they get autolevelled to 50

[pseudo current]

can I get help with movesets and ev spreads?

spreads specifically bc idk what to calc for

https://pokepast.es/cd73b8121098f687

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant stump]

First off

Sending the paste is much easier than looking at it like this

I think theres a lot of minor problems with the team

• Hydrapple is just bad
• AV Hands isent great, it gets intimidate cycled like crazy
• Dont run lum berry gambit, av is just better there. Burn/sleep isent common enough to justify not running another item
• Sinistcha is super out of place, it doesent really support the team with anything

If its your first time making a team or tr team, or your new to vgc

I recc using a rental

to get a better feel at how to play trick room and how the meta game looks likk

[distant stump]

• Thundy is pretty much worse tornadus. Just run raging bolt + torn if you really want the elctric coverage
• Cressluna is very out of place here. It has negative syngergy with the team as your mons are otherwise fast, and removes the final slots that are usually used to handle bad MU like flutter for dark fu. Dark fu rolls this
• The item choices are all weird, like goggles urshifu

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/

You can take sets from here, and item reccomendations

I would switch out Cressluna with either Raging bolt + Flutter + Lando, pick one

and thundy with tornadus

[pseudo current]

thx for the advice, I was wondering if there is any good counter to trick room for this team

bc i feel like the team is very helpless against tr and idk what to do about it

[distant stump]

fig?

[pseudo current]

fig?

ohhhh

farig?

[distant stump]

Mhh

[pseudo current]

ok

so replace thundy w torn and then cress and luna with farig and either Raging bolt + Flutter + Lando

so this?https://pokepast.es/20c5da80a252b3f8

[distant stump]

I meant lando I

but somethign like that is ok

[pseudo current]

ok

[distant stump]

spreads are a bit wack

[pseudo current]

can you give me one of your teams?

i just want to see how they feel if thats ok

[distant stump]

I dont really have a team like that

Theres a pretty common core called F.R.U.I.T thats follows those lines

maybe ping leo they will know

[pseudo current]

im just asking for any one of your teams

doesnt need to be the same core or anything

[distant stump]

https://pokepast.es/2efd0808fd7902df

Dont follow my example

This is a very bad team for anyone but me playing it

[pseudo current]

it looks good

can i ask why no covert cloak on torn?

[distant stump]

I already have fig to block prio

and I havent really found much use out of it

protect usually works

[pseudo current]

ok

[distant stump]

and the extra damage hits a few key breakpoints

[pseudo current]

do you play ots or hidden?

[distant stump]

like urshifu and hearthflame OHKO

Bo3 OTS only

[pseudo current]

ok

that makes sense now

im building for hidden

and I usually use weird things that are meant to suprise people and are unexpexted

[narrow dock]

@distant stump https://pokepast.es/89475a9ae6e7320e

[wild sinew]

Wellspring/Hearthflame are just better redirectors for the team, applying a lot of offensive pressure and giving you a mode outside of Trick Room.

you can go Spe Booster Flutter Mane with Icy wind over Clefairy as you already have redirection. It refines your fast mode and makes the team really versatile. Farigraf Bloodmoon's strength imo

[dense nebula]

Farigiraf paired with indeedee f is just a garanteed tr right

[wild sinew]

Yes

I don't recommend the pairing though

[wild sinew]

With Tera in the picture

Because stuff like Flutter Fish / Flutter Lando

[distant stump]

its more like

you lose so much pressure

if you lead indeedee + fig

your opp can just stall out the 5 turns of trick roo

and you cant do much back

and if you switch, your also risking taking a lot of damage

[wild sinew]

Exactly

[dense nebula]

Not using it, just a thought

[fair marlin]

Archaludon is one of the best VGC tanks rn right?

[dense nebula]

Alongside av incin yes

[dense nebula]

if i want a more offensive team should i replace archaludon with kingambit and amoonguss with ogerpon and urshifu with entei/suicune?

[wild sinew]

Arch -> Landorus-I/Raging Bolt/Chi-Yu/Glimmora
Amoonguss -> Wellspring
Urshofu-R -> Urshifu-S

[dense nebula]

kk

is raging bolt exclusive to scarlet

[wild sinew]

unfortunately

[dense nebula]

guess ill mess with power herb glimmora

[cerulean totem]

https://pokepast.es/f52170c618391974 still need help here

just a fun little team

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

This kind of tries to place Sunroom features into Tornadus Sun and it doesn't really work out as well.

[cerulean totem]

mhm

was trying to make it work

you’re right it probably won’t

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/48c255bfdc905bef how about this

[wild sinew]

Incin kind of overlaps and is better off as Landorus (either form) here. Always nice for opposing Fires

Run bulk on your Flutter Mane

Adamant Entei, you're clicking Espeed a lot of the time anyway, Iron Head hits nothing so you might as well go Flare Blitz for important kos

Raging Bolt usually barely invests into speed and Solar Beam is bad and inconsistent as you wont always have sun up, run Thunderbolt

[north tree]

Wouldn't recommend solar beam raging bolt you're much better with tbolt

Ah Leo got to it first

[narrow dock]

How about weather ball over Solarb

[narrow dock]

How about this team

[north tree]

Coming off of Leo's advice, Incineroar doesn't fit well here. If you want an intimidater, go Landorus-Therian and you can run Rillaboom if you want fake out support. If you aren't bothered you can always go Landorus Incarnate.

[placid bluff]

https://pokepast.es/75d994ba39d32061

How’s this look?

[river crown]

Hello, I am looking for advice and maybe a replacement for metagross https://pokepast.es/a9ddb53ec9dea353

[cerulean totem]

frankly, looks very bad. if you’re new, try out a team that top cut a tournament

[acoustic slate]

My honest reaction to a majority of this team

[placid bluff]

Did some research, worked on it, this is what I’ve got now: https://pokepast.es/450d6b76adfb48be

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wanton abyss]

Hi, thanks for sharing your team! I don’t think Rillaboom on Sun teams is particularly strong, and would recommend Flutter Mane in that slot to better facilitate your Sun offense

[placid bluff]

I see, thank you very much for the insight! I’ll look into researching her

[wanton abyss]

and while I’m at it, Urshifu Water has Surging Strike damage reduced in Sun. It’s not like Hydro Steam, which can be boosted in Sun. If you’re looking for another physical attacker, Dark Urshifu would slot in nicely on this team, preferably with a focus sash.

[placid bluff]

Gotcha, thank you very much

[wanton abyss]

Always welcome to help!

[river crown]

Is anyone available to offer any advice?

[acoustic slate]

You could probably replace it with urshifu

[acoustic slate]

Smth like sash urshi dark

Wait no

[wild sinew]

Go Adamant Entei

Latios and Metagross don't synergise with the rest of the team, you're better off with a combination of Raging Bolt, Dragonite, Landorus-T, Gyarados, and Rillaboom.

Flutter Mane is just better of with SpA Booster Energy here, you don't need the speed control with the priority and bulk on the team.

[river crown]

Alright thanks all for the help

[placid bluff]

https://pokepast.es/40f0226c6fcea60b

My team feels like it’s missing something, but I don’t know what. Any advice on filling the sixth slot?

[acoustic slate]

Replace bonnet with amongus and killowattrel with tornadus and add urshifu, preferably dark since you have a sun mon

Unless you want to keep bonnet since it’s been on your teams every time

Wish has no purpose on fari

Also specs protect goes hard 🔥🔥🔥

I just don’t see where this team is trying to go

[placid bluff]

I prefer bonnet because of the superior bulk and offense/support, but tornadus sounds interesting. Any mons other than urshi? It’s a bit of a hassle to get since I started with water

[placid bluff]

Yeah specs protect was a whoops

Generally just sun and proto stuff

[acoustic slate]

While bonnet does have superior bulk, its typing really fucks it over

Grass/dark is TERRIBLE in this meta

[placid bluff]

Fair enough

[acoustic slate]

Amoongus also has rage powder support and a better typing

It matches better into urshifu too

[placid bluff]

Bonnet has all of amoongus’ moves

But I agree on the typing

[acoustic slate]

Bonnet is cursed with the “idk where my stat spread is going” syndrome

It wants to be offensive with its 127 attack but it’s slow

It could be defensive but it’s typing is ass

[placid bluff]

Hmmm

It’s very unfortunate

[acoustic slate]

If u want sucker punch stuff, use kingambit or urshi dark

But

I do use emboar so I know how to use off-meta mons

[placid bluff]

I want to use bonnet

[acoustic slate]

Hmm

I’ll get back to you in a second, at work rn and I’m closing up

[placid bluff]

All good

Just ping me

[acoustic slate]

I could enjoy building for Bonnet actually

[placid bluff]

:0

Horray

[acoustic slate]

Alright I’m on my way back from work, should be home in like 15-20 minutes, I’ll ping

[placid bluff]

Much appreciated

I’m excited to see what you come up with

[acoustic slate]

Alright

@placid bluff let’s get cooking

[placid bluff]

Yo yo

[acoustic slate]

Before I start, I want to explain what I want to do

[placid bluff]

Alright

[acoustic slate]

Bonnet hits hard. Very hard.

His stab moves aren’t the best but they can’t work

[placid bluff]

He also learns close combat

[acoustic slate]

Not stab but yes, can work

Now looking at his stats, he’s slow

Too slow to take advantage of tailwind

But

He can take advantage of trick room pretty well

[placid bluff]

I see I see

I’m listening

[acoustic slate]

Since his highest stab move is bullet seed (unless u opt for leaf storm for some reason, since it’s coming off of base 70~ special attack) so we will work with this

Loaded dice is probably best here

Typical ev spread of max hp max attack with a brave nature

[placid bluff]

How does seed bomb sound?

Base 100 with stab

Leaves the item slot open too

[acoustic slate]

Hmm

We can experiment with it

[placid bluff]

Cool cool

[acoustic slate]

I think for moveset

U could go for spore/sucker/seed bomb/protect

[placid bluff]

That does sound pretty good

[acoustic slate]

Cause since he’s usually going first in tr u essentially get priority spore

That was he’s not just pure offense and he can offer team support too

[placid bluff]

I’d definitely like to make him bulky

Proto is also something I’d like activated

[acoustic slate]

I think max hp max attack is the best you’ll get with him

This meta is so hostile to him

[placid bluff]

I see

[acoustic slate]

Loses to flutter mane, incin, gouging, rilla (with u turn), torn

I could go on

[placid bluff]

Fair enough

[acoustic slate]

Also urshifu

[placid bluff]

I think I may want him to be my Tera

[acoustic slate]

U have a few options here

[placid bluff]

Tera psychic?

[acoustic slate]

Nah

Tera poison for bulk or Tera dark for offense

[placid bluff]

Hmm

I’d say poison is probably better since dark will go off sucker

Not 100%

[acoustic slate]

Yeah true

Poison is guaranteed value

[placid bluff]

Yeah

[acoustic slate]

Brute Bonnet @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
Brave Nature

• Spore
• Sucker Punch
• Seed Bomb
• Protect

I haven’t fully decided on an item yet but I’m sure I’ll get to it

[acoustic slate]

Alright now time to address this

This can work even better

Torkoal is great on tr teams

[placid bluff]

I’m listening

Yes

[acoustic slate]

You had the idea

[placid bluff]

I’d like to keep it as adamant or bold instead of brave

[acoustic slate]

Adamant on torkoal?

[placid bluff]

On the rare occasion I can’t tr or it gets reversed, I want to outspeed amoongus

[placid bluff]

Bonnet, my bad

[acoustic slate]

In the occasion you don’t feel confident on trick room going up, don’t bring bonnet

[placid bluff]

Fair enough

[acoustic slate]

He’s too slow outside of trick room to do anything

Torkoal @ Charcoal
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

• Eruption
• Heat Wave
• Earth Power
• Protect

[placid bluff]

The typing is unfortunate

[acoustic slate]

Honestly the typing is his biggest weakness

I think if his typing was better he’d be a lot more used

[placid bluff]

If he just had like, grass-dragon I think it’d still be better

Then he’d at least not be weak to fighting

[acoustic slate]

Grass/dark doesn’t have the best track record

(Insert obligatory wo chien reaction image here)

[placid bluff]

Lmao

[acoustic slate]

Anyways

For the tr setter, I think fari is great for this

I’m kind of iffy on indeedee since it’s terrain blocks bonnets sucker

But fari is fairly bulky in its own right

[placid bluff]

True true

and for tork I’m gonna do 84 spe ev, to outspeed no investment amoongus spore

Free heatwave

[acoustic slate]

Mmm, I don’t think that would do much

While your head is in the right place, you’re looking at it in a vacuum

Not in execution

[placid bluff]

Yeah

[acoustic slate]

Cause what is amoong gonna do to you

Spore? Sun is already up

Nothing it has threatens you except maybe sludge

[placid bluff]

Fair enough

Hmmm

For bonnets item..

[acoustic slate]

4 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Torkoal: 60-72 (33.8 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Yeah no it ain’t doing shit

[placid bluff]

Fair point

[acoustic slate]

It doesn’t even run sludge often, it opts for pollen puff more

And that does even less to tork

[placid bluff]

How does max def, max hp, adamant, rocky helmet sound?

Same moveset

[acoustic slate]

For bonnet?

[placid bluff]

Yes

[acoustic slate]

It goes against the point of what it wants to do

In trick room you don’t want to stall it out unless you are going against it

You want to hit HARD

[placid bluff]

I see

[acoustic slate]

As an avid tr user myself I never usually try to be defensive while it’s up

Farigiraf @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Armor Tail
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Psychic
• Dazzling Gleam
• Trick Room
• Protect

U could use this for fari

U also have the option for goggles if amoong is an issue

[placid bluff]

True, because of Tera

How does assault sound? Replace protect for Tera blast

Wait nvm

Spore

[acoustic slate]

I think life orb is best here

That or loaded dice bullet seed

Since it can break through sash

[placid bluff]

Hmm

[acoustic slate]

But after the team is finished you can tinker with it

[placid bluff]

Yeah true

[acoustic slate]

I feel like it’s interchangeable but for the sake of simplicity I’ll go with lorb

[placid bluff]

Bullet seed doesn’t connect with rocky helmet right?

[acoustic slate]

Correct

Not contact

[placid bluff]

Hm okay

Might do dice, I’ll think about it

It would be cool if sucker did big damage

Actually

[acoustic slate]

If you really want

You could do black glasses

[placid bluff]

Thinking about it more, lorb is best. If sucker fails it won’t drain hp

[acoustic slate]

But honestly at that point if you want big sucker damage just use kingambit lol

[placid bluff]

and spore doesn’t drain it either right?

[acoustic slate]

Correct

[placid bluff]

Just taking about bonnet damage in general

[acoustic slate]

Lorb only does recoil on damage moves, not status

[placid bluff]

I think I’ll do lorb for now then

So max hp max attack and where does the 4 go?

[acoustic slate]

You can put it into spdef

[placid bluff]

Gotcha

[acoustic slate]

For the 4th member, I think having flutter on this team is almost a given

Gets a boost from sun and is also just really good

[placid bluff]

Very true

[acoustic slate]

There’s a reason it had almost 70% usage at liverpool day 1

[placid bluff]

Yeah 💀

What if I did close combat over protect?

Covers my weakness against steel types

[acoustic slate]

You have a second teammate for a reason

[placid bluff]

Very true, I gotta stop thinking about bonnet doing a 1v4

[acoustic slate]

Without protect it gets bodied by the aforementioned threats to it

[placid bluff]

Yeah

[acoustic slate]

For flutter you can go the typical ev spread

Max speed and special attack + timid

We can go specs here also

[placid bluff]

Some bulk would be nice, just to live against other flutters

Focus sash is nice but specs and living would be cool

[chilly jasper]

That is not a typical flutter spec for vgc

[acoustic slate]

Wait

[chilly jasper]

Flutter specs almost fully into physical defense

[acoustic slate]

Fuck your right

[chilly jasper]

Lots of bulk and speed investment with little spatt investment

[acoustic slate]

I’m looking at pikalytics 💀

[chilly jasper]

Does pikalytics show spreads?

[acoustic slate]

Yeah

The most popular spread it shows is 252 speed and special attack for flutter

[placid bluff]

So for the other 2 members

[chilly jasper]

That's insane