#VGC Rates

1 messages · Page 19 of 1

winter gulch
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which is like not good

uncut harness
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Whoops forgot to change that for sunny day

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I have sunny day in game just forgot to change it on showdown

winter gulch
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Specs Protect is also

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and imo SD Ogerpon can afford to run bulk so you can actually get the move up

uncut harness
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Yeah i’m changing that to thinderbolt

winter gulch
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I'd go Power Gem or a utility move tbh

uncut harness
uncut harness
winter gulch
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yeah

uncut harness
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What does power gem do again?

winter gulch
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hits fire types

uncut harness
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Oh true then

winter gulch
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the only water types in this format are ones you'll probably just hit with a fairy move

uncut harness
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Or wood hammer

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hehe

mystic parrot
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wild sinew
mystic parrot
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o7

wild sinew
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Smogon Strategy Dex is an option if you aren't sure with EVs

mystic parrot
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Ah OK fair

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I think I'm happy with it in the state it's in then

atomic mantle
mystic parrot
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its an adaption of the tourney team with my spreads

cosmic nexus
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´ello :3 i would like to get a second (and if someone want a third) opinion on this team.
https://pokepast.es/8b94377aaff4eb7a

Iron Moth is an Leftover from the beginning of the building process, and i´m thinking about replacing it with chi yu, up until now it doesnt realy get a spotlight in the matches (SD 1.3<->1.4K / SV Greatball Tier atm), and when i saw an opportunity to use it, its always just an attention fodder for the big guys, so i thought about the replacement, any thoughts?

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wild sinew
cosmic nexus
wild sinew
cosmic nexus
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thank you very much :3

nova quarry
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wild sinew
# nova quarry https://pokepast.es/241ba1ad3e7b93db I think that could change Iron hands

As I've said before

Would suggest less bulk on your Flutter Mane and more speed, ideally hitting 132. Having Icy Wind over one of your Fairy stabs

I'd say you'd benefit more from a bigger offensive threat that can take advantage of Flutter Mane's Icy Wind in the Urshifu slot. Chi-Yu is an example used in other comps, Dragonite and Ogerpon Hearthflame are other Pokemon to be considered.

What in particular is the issue with Iron Hands?

nova quarry
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Idk if I don't use it properly or don't figure in the team

wild sinew
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What has it been doing that's been disappointing?

nova quarry
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I feel that match ups aren't good for Iron H and can't hit decently if I don't use helping hand

wild sinew
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Also I've just noticed, but you want Lunar Blessing on Cresselia

nova quarry
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I changed it for ally switch 'cuz it give me some game ideas

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Anyway, thank u

digital sierra
distant stump
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You want regular ursa there instead of bm

digital sierra
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i felt kinda uncomfortable with cress being my only special attacker

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so thats why i chose bm

distant stump
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Ursa just has much much better synergy with cress and the team as a whole

digital sierra
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isnt regular luna a sitting duck outside of tr?

distant stump
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But bm isent much better

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You take want tr up on that team

wild sinew
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I second Choruto

wild sinew
north tree
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It's booster spa flutter mane @wild sinew

wild sinew
north tree
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I think both have a case since you have tr and the only true benefactor of icy wind is urshifu-rapid

wild sinew
north tree
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Yeah, I would also personally prefer booster speed flutter, just not sure it can be applied to every player.

uncut harness
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@wild sinew are these evs fine on Torn covert cloak ?

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252 HP / 4 Def / 116 SpA / 116 SpD / 20 Spe

wild sinew
uncut harness
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Ok ok

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I thought I messed up

wanton abyss
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that is a spread of EVs all right

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what do they do

uncut harness
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I was gonna break something

uncut harness
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also @wild sinew

drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

uncut harness
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the ev spreads on ogerpon

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Are they fine?

wild sinew
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Only spread I'd suggest changing is Chien Pao's

uncut harness
wild sinew
uncut harness
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But maybe a bit of bulk?

wild sinew
uncut harness
wild sinew
uncut harness
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Unless you mean against an urshifu

wild sinew
uncut harness
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wait

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math isn’t mathing I think

wild sinew
uncut harness
wild sinew
uncut harness
wild sinew
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Yes

uncut harness
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K

frosty wadi
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drop protect on flutter for an attack too

uncut harness
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Imma replace it w power gen

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gem*

quaint phoenix
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Yooo

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I just pushed flipin 300 rr without a loss

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trust me

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IT IS GOOD

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gone from 1100 to around 1400 without losing a single game

fresh flicker
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And Lando > tusk.

quaint phoenix
quaint phoenix
fresh flicker
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Actually ima call em. @wild sinew

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Lando is more consistent then tusk.

quaint phoenix
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booster headlong is op af

wild sinew
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This team is a bit weird

fresh flicker
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Urshifu, Flutter and Ogerpon being everywhere doesn't help.

wild sinew
quaint phoenix
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Its oger bait

quaint phoenix
fresh flicker
quaint phoenix
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ok

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this means that?

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huh

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ohkoing iron hands is strong w tusk

wild sinew
# wild sinew I think you want to aim for Dozo HO?

That would mean I recommend Kingambit -> Specs Chi Yu and to use Speed Booster Icy Wind Flutter

TalonTusk was good pre home, but now it's just outclassed by Torn Shifu and in some cases Torn Glimm on this team. Too many things can just come in and wall Tusk like Lando itself for example, who also intimidates it. Ursh's unseen fist ability is also preferable for HO teams that want to break through defences

fresh flicker
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Lando or H-Arcanine are also pretty good options if it's a HO team.

quaint phoenix
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could u explain what ho teams are

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pls

fresh flicker
quaint phoenix
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ahhhh

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alright

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sooo

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first up, i dont like to run an intimedate mon on ho rn cause there are so many defiant mons rn

fresh flicker
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Lando is also pretty much a more reliable way to deal with hands.

wild sinew
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Dondozo teams are naturally hyper offensive because you bring your lead pokemon, and Dozogiri in the back. You can't exactly switch in and out and the pokemon that take the most advantage from that are very offensive duos (Tornadus Urshifu, Chien pao Dragonite, Chi Yu Flutter Mane, etc)

quaint phoenix
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i know

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Flame tusk is good

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tusk gambit is very good against tr

fresh flicker
wild sinew
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If you want to use it, go ahead no one is stopping you
Just making it clear that you're being sub optimal and I won't further engage, as if you're playing for fun, you don't need competitive advice

fresh flicker
quaint phoenix
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huh

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tbh i came here to see if anyone could come up w a replacement for flutter

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bc i dont bring it often

wild sinew
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Basically

  • Talon Tusk is sub optimal here, you'd benefit from a Gambit replacement
  • If you won't take the advice then there's no need for me to keep giving it
quaint phoenix
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I just dont know if flutter fits well

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I think the rest is fine

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:(

fresh flicker
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If you want to find a replacement for flutter without changing the team then comp general is the place to be.

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Because they offer competitive advice here. Not find replacements for sub optimal teams.

quaint phoenix
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wow

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kinda mean

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just bc a mon is not used in the meta that often, does not make it unvable

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Trust me w tusk talon

fresh flicker
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Not the way I wanted the tone to go. But the reality is the metagame is harsh and the more skilled players higher up are going to be a more difficult challenge.

quaint phoenix
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ok

fresh flicker
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And often is what decides a mons usage.

quaint phoenix
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Then epls explain how so many off meta mon are winnig turnaments

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like the /back then) not at all used commo o

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or liligant

fresh flicker
quaint phoenix
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Yea

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i did the same

fresh flicker
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This team does not do that.

quaint phoenix
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Wait

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I rly think that the talon beats oger

fresh flicker
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Kommo walls flutter and can set up on it. Grass pon goes well against most Intimidate users.

quaint phoenix
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dozo beats other threats like flutter

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I ohko oger w talon

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i calked it

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calced

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Tusk is just to strong

fresh flicker
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There's really no point in arguing with you if you don't see it. Good luck.

sour pollen
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wanton abyss
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I think you’re going into this with an incorrect idea of how perish song plays

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It is NOT stall

wild sinew
wanton abyss
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your team seems like it has pieces and choices commonly seen on singles stall teams. Those aren’t as effective in VGC, and on top of that, Perish Song is difficult to use at best

wild sinew
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Pretty much

sour pollen
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I mostly made it with things that can draw out the match in mind so Perish Song goes into effect

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hence why everything has a move that can do that somewhat

wanton abyss
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Ah! Okay, that’s not exactly the best mindset to approach Perish Song teambuilding (and VGC teambuilding)

sour pollen
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o

wanton abyss
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VGC is a format that is significantly shorter than any comparable singles format, even BSS. Aiming to make a game longer is almost never the goal of clicking a move

sour pollen
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Im not sure how its supposed to be fast if the win condition takes a fixed amount of turns

wanton abyss
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I’ll let you know, if you’re trying to run effective Perish Trap in VGC, you already have the three base Pokémon: Scream Tail, Flutter Mane, and Gothitelle

sour pollen
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I tried using Carbink 😭

wanton abyss
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The best example for a modern Perish Song team is the team Wolfe Glick used to win a regional last season. I don’t remember the regional; he played Ashton Cox in the final. It’s available somewhere so if you do some digging, you’ll find it

sour pollen
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SCcatMIAO Ill look into that

distant stump
wanton abyss
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that team has 2 perish song users, a trapper, and tools to allow for BOTH the ability to click perish song and play the game as a normal person

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with that said

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as others have said

sour pollen
distant stump
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Half of all teams have a mon that is immune to your shadow tag

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And all teams have ways to blow up your goth and scream tail

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The only way I can see perish working

winter gulch
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That Flutter is criminal on too many levels

wanton abyss
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Perish Song is the hardest “meta” strategy to play

winter gulch
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and yeah I agree, perish is incredibly difficult to play

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like you do have a prescribed wincon, but actually achieving that wincon is terribly difficult

distant stump
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Is good ho at the start to try to kill 2 mons/ counters at the start

wanton abyss
distant stump
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So you can perish where they can’t switch out

winter gulch
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its not really annoying or non-meta

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its just unpopular bc its tough to play well

distant stump
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I really don’t even recommend trying to use it to kill

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Use it to force switches and remove set up

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Imo

wanton abyss
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both

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it’s got a lot of uses

distant stump
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And you don’t have to use goth

wanton abyss
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it’s also hard to use effectively

distant stump
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Which is always nice

sour pollen
wanton abyss
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unless you’re really good at hitting Magma Storm

distant stump
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I’m half joking but goth is so useless

winter gulch
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1200s mald at everything

winter gulch
sour pollen
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goth + soak fr cathello

distant stump
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If you plan on using it going ho is literally better than perish

distant stump
sour pollen
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I tried learning trickroom but uh

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Idk how others do it but I got steamrolled way to easily

winter gulch
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well what was the team

sour pollen
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One sec

distant stump
wanton abyss
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if this is a discussion about how to improve at VGC I’d suggest we move it to comp general

sour pollen
distant stump
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Well yeah that’s kinda your problem

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Stuff like trick room and perish are very hard to run

wanton abyss
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now, now, I think being a casual fan is fine

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Choruto is right, though

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you picked two very difficult compositions to run

distant stump
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Dunno anyways

wanton abyss
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a lot of people say so, and it’s true we do not rate meme teams

sour pollen
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Well its not that im not wanting to be competitive, its more I have just been hard stuck

wanton abyss
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ahhhh

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in that case

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Use Torn Shifu

distant stump
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I’m sorry it’s just not a very viable strategy to learn the game

wanton abyss
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Torn Shifu is the single most potent offensive combo in the format right now

sour pollen
wanton abyss
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so you will get hard unstuck, and it’s more helpful to learn the game

distant stump
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^

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Even if you get stuck at 1300 the strategy as a whole is a lot easier and better to learn things like positioning, reads, teras etc

sour pollen
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Ive been more of a singles player, were I do significantly better. This is the official format tho

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wumpus_dumpling gotta learn

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Ill try to cook up a better team and send it here

distant stump
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Mkay

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Good luck

wanton abyss
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wishing you the best of luck!

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!resources

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oh that doesn’t work here

distant stump
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Rip

burnt surge
drifting onyxBOT
nova quarry
north tree
# nova quarry <@543549395195658240> https://pokepast.es/a076c152bfe6cbaf I made this team with...

I happen to not be Eeveon, but firstly, your flutter spread can be optimized a bit by taking 4 away from def and turning it into spdef (84evs give the same as 88evs and 4 makes a new stat). Tornadus can also be optimized in a similar by removing 6 from special defense and adding it to speed, giving you 1 extra speed point without sacrifcing any special defense.

Speaking of spreads, Flutter Mane seems a bit on the frailer end, you may want to use a bulkier spread with less special attack. Iron Hands could use some speed investment, seeing as you are a tailroom team. Sash Chi-yu is out of fashion these days, it's usually life orb or specs to take advantage of the massive special attack stat (it has the same as mega mewtwo y counting beads of ruin). A bulky spread on it goes a long way too.

Cresselia should honestly have helping hand over ally switch, ally switch's utility has gone down ever since ots and the nerf making it work like protect while helping hand gives you extremely powerful dazzling gleams, overheats and allows sucker punch to take even more KOs. Also ally switch has the downside of making some opponents a bit too salty if you know what I mean.

atomic mantle
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

atomic mantle
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after talking to dawob for a bit i have adapted my team once more into what ever this is

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might make arc rock head

wild sinew
atomic mantle
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but bogerbon

wild sinew
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Spe Booster Flutter is usually more supportive and isn't on Torn teams as they have tough spe

wild sinew
atomic mantle
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but bogerbon is scary

wild sinew
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And you can just move SpA into speed to outspeed Pon

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Flutter hits it with 188 evs iirc

atomic mantle
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yes

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but then im frial af

wild sinew
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Move it from SpA

atomic mantle
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thats imposable

wild sinew
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like
132+ SpA
188 Spe

atomic mantle
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I thought oger pon was 188 speed fsr

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im a dumbass

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thats to out speed elki after booster speed im psure

wild sinew
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Other than Flutter I think the team is fine
I prefer Rillaboom over Amoonguss, though both are strong here

atomic mantle
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spore is funny

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rilla could be good tho

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no fake out is a bit cring

autumn wolf
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I also just have perish trap because it’s really fun lol

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Also I’m not exactly sure what the best set would be for gothitelle

severe basin
atomic mantle
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Body slam orthworm

wild sinew
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Using bad pokemon and sets there

pulsar trout
wild sinew
pulsar trout
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Thats crazy

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Does it do.more then dark glasses

wild sinew
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Except it means you can't break through Protect

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Since unlike pads, it removes contact entirely and unseen fist only works y u contact moves

pulsar trout
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Idk why u'd just run rapid strike over single strike

toxic socket
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

toxic socket
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damn i didnt wanna ping 50000 people

distant stump
toxic socket
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o shit didnt update the urs spread

toxic socket
distant stump
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I think you dont really want urshifu there

distant stump
toxic socket
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im asking for a 6th

wild sinew
toxic socket
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i was running both

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o shit

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my bad

wild sinew
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Choruto can you take this one though

wild sinew
distant stump
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Ok

wild sinew
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Ty

toxic socket
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ursh has been incredibly clutch in the fast mode

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not clutch

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good

distant stump
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Final slot

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harc

toxic socket
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yeahh harc was looking mad enticing

distant stump
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generally speaking I dont reccomend urshifu here, you want to conserve the tera for kommo oh and the tools you have

toxic socket
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natural hearthflame resist

distant stump
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dont really help it very much

toxic socket
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i rarely tera ursh

distant stump
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Wellspring has a ton more value here

toxic socket
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my worry is the speed

distant stump
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Grass/water coverage is great, follow me is good, provides a more offensive mode/counter to amoon, and generally good with kommo oh

distant stump
toxic socket
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legit forgot oger got follow me

distant stump
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You have tr on sinis after all

toxic socket
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im not using tr with kommo

distant stump
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is to outspeed things like flutter, chien, etc

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that threaten kommo oh

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thats why trick room is good

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also you already have bm and hands

toxic socket
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when would a kommo ever outspeed flutter or chien in tr

distant stump
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What do you mean

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like literally all the time

toxic socket
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or you mean unboosted kommo

distant stump
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Oh its throat spray

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I dont reccomend that

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set

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body press/iron defense is usually better

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dragon is just pretty bad and the boost aint worth it

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also fix your evs

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go here for them

toxic socket
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which evs

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all of them?? or just kommo

distant stump
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Like

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basically all of them

toxic socket
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they are for specific things lol

native knoll
wanton abyss
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That Gyarados is not bringing much to this team

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it can very easily become a different water type that offers more utility and damage

native knoll
wanton abyss
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I like Ogerpon-Wellspring for this team

native knoll
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i tried it few day ago and a had a realy bad matchup against lando-t because sucker punche tera dark at +1 doesn't get ko

wild sinew
sour pollen
#

hows this

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

north tree
# sour pollen https://pokepast.es/ea80b8c0bb9b1a9a

I don't think armarouge on this team works as a special attacker, life orb armarouge is too frail and too slow to have any meaningful impact on the game. Klefki is not a good pokemon either, neither does screens fit onto this archtype.
Instead, have a fast mode. A tried and true fast mode for these sort of teams is speed booster flutter mane with icy wind next to tera blast flying choice band dragonite. Dragonite benefits from the bulk of the team and is ok with trick room being up thanks to extreme speed while also adding depth with flutter mane to lower speed and remove major threats with tera blast.
Iron hands should be either tera fire, water or grass while sinistcha should have tera dark to prevent tornadus taunt. Iron hands and sinistcha you should nab a pikalytics spread for and have wild charge over ice punch.
Ting-lu is an uncommon pokemon, but you should not run maximum defense. Special defense investment is more of a priority. Try to calc a spread for specific hits or get one from Leo.
Cresselia may want more bulk investment but I think max spa with rocky helmet can actually put in work so I'll leave it there as a consideration.
Anything else would be a bit too subjective.

fathom token
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I've never thought Kleavor Sheer Force would be a solid mon

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but it have proven to me that sheer force mons can be really good

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it gets a very high damage output with both band and ability, and imagine that + arcanine's howl (+ 1 attack stat)

wanton abyss
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Out of curiosity, is stone axe’s setting of stealth rocks counted as a secondary effect?

fathom token
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I haven't checked it

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but it wouldn't be worth it adding it into the movepool, it's only a x1.3 damage boost for a base 65 dmg attack and there are other rock type physical moves that hit better than that alone

fathom token
lost phoenix
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Kleavor is already not that good of a mon so you should be squeezing out all the value you can get from it, by setting rocks from stone axe and firing off no drawback 120 bp moves

fathom token
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and the thing is, in vgc, rocks don't get a lot of value; 2 mons at the back, and another two fighting
there's not enough switches for rocks to be useful

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(you could say that its a new way of squeezing out all his value, because with sheer force you're just getting that whopping 135 atk base stat and converting it into pure --rock-hard-- strength)

wild sinew
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And I think rocks aren't that bad if you can use a 100BP attack to set them up

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They do bring stuff like ruining end game Chien Pao and we do have a lot of good rock weak mons rn

chilly jasper
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https://pokepast.es/57bc96f762b6c75c
trying to get into vgc so I made a team that seems mostly solid, though I don't know the tier well enough to know if I just threw a lot of strong pokemon on a team or if it is good

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wild sinew
distant stump
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danm leo your fast

chilly jasper
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rain def

wild sinew
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Alright

distant stump
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if going rain

chilly jasper
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i am testing teams on showdown before i spend time to build them in game, so I am fine changing everything if need be

distant stump
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Imo Hands -> Rilla
Lando T -> Chien, dengo, basically a free slot. Just dont use Lando T here
Wellspring -> Urshifu

wild sinew
# chilly jasper rain def

You want your Scarfer to be Urshifu here, one of the best offensive pokemon in the format and benefits much more from rain than Lando. Not to mention it's less mandatory because you overlap intimidate.

I'd suggest Nasty Plot Gholdengo over Flutter Mane, with the given support it can find opportunities to set up and has superior synergy with rain, especially into the common fire types right now.

Otherwise the sets are good and the EVs aren't bad, team can definitely succeed

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Choruto's suggestion is also an option

distant stump
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my suggestion is more HO

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Leo's is also good

wild sinew
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Pretty sure what I have is basically Baek's team

distant stump
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the one I said is the harc rilla shifu team

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or the HURT as I like to call it core

chilly jasper
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what is a ghold and urshifu set

distant stump
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NP and scarf

chilly jasper
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make it rain is a spread move right?

wild sinew
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Yes

wild sinew
chilly jasper
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okay how does this look

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ignore the names, i like to be a bit silly

wild sinew
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Looks good

chilly jasper
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ngl totem of udying has got to be some of my best work

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but Imma spend like a week or two running this team to get better with it and the meta

fathom token
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hmmm....

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I dunno, I just feel that Kleavor is a very good sweeping mon if you use it with sheer force

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it also may be the best rock slide user in that case

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and yes, I'm saying that its better than band h-arcanine

wanton abyss
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sheer force = no flinch

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plus no intimidate

fathom token
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I mean, flinch is just another +support rng tool, and after all, I have my very own intimidate arcanine at the back

wanton abyss
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L + ratio + Kleavor has no regional wins

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  • band rock slide
fathom token
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you loose the argument when the other one gets ratioed, don't you tryna close it here cuz I have a point

wanton abyss
#

I just think you’re wrong, because Kleavor does not bring that much to teams

fathom token
#

it does in this one, I've been explaining it for the past 16 hours throughout like +15 other messages

#

it has a sweeping role in my team, believe it or not, and it shreds

#

every single mon can have its very own unique strategy if you think it through, and trust me, I've been thinking about this one for a while

chilly jasper
#

The main one is taking the scarf from urshifu since I just wasn't getting much use out of it when I usually already have a second choice mon on the team

lost phoenix
#

and head smash can get the ohko on standard lando to help hands and ghold

#

what does tantrum on wellspring hit?

chilly jasper
#

I honestly have no clue why I gave it that

#

I just wanted one more attacking move on ogerpon but I think knock off would be better

lost phoenix
#

i would like follow me

chilly jasper
#

I will try headsmash on arca and give oger follow me again

chilly jasper
#

So this

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

chilly jasper
#

Oh wow I am so sorry

wild sinew
#

Yeah you want follow me

#

I still think Scarf is the better item here as it threatens a lot on rain and is just something you want to get used to, choiced pokemon are in general something you grow comfortable with

#

Tera Blast is fine imo but you want Tera Grass or Normal if you want to use Head Smash

mystic parrot
#

COuld i make a 2 2 2 tr team?

distant stump
mystic parrot
#

maybe like clops luna, armadee, two fast mons?

distant stump
#

Oh

#

I mean yeah sure you can

mystic parrot
#

will it be any good 🤔

distant stump
#

I mean

#

I would assume so but you haven’t given us much to work with

pulsar trout
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

quaint phoenix
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

quaint phoenix
#

Can someone help me make a Meowscarda team??

#

Pls

wild sinew
quaint phoenix
#

Do u have a idea for the other mons then?

#

so i that can clomplete it

wild sinew
#

One of the comp general channels would better suit what you're asking for

quaint phoenix
#

k

#

done

wild sinew
# pulsar trout https://pokepast.es/cb4d91259ba807cb idk how good this is

I think Glimmora benefits this team more than Okidogi here, when trying to use Dozo, the poison becomes effective, at least when you're going for screens

If you want to keep Grimmsnarl I'd suggest spirit break over fake out to not be a sitting duck, especially in endgames. Though I think Ninetales or even Torn are stronger here

Choice Band Harcanine is your preferred set for this team, let's you bring in a strong duo in it and Chien Pao first and then clean up with Dondozo Tatsugiri. That type of play with Dozo has seen significant success.

wild sinew
# quaint phoenix https://pokepast.es/cb54734f5b12163c

Meowscarada isn't great right now, outclassed by Rillaboom, Chien pao, and the Ogerpon forms with a poor meta matchup. But if you want to use itz I would suggest Knock Off over Acrobatics, strong stab is appreciated.

Would recommend replacing Flutter Mane with Choice Scarf Urshifu here, better synergy with Gholdengo and let's you benefit more if you go rain dance Tornadus

Iron Hands should be Tera Grass here as Firepon and Flutter will be a lot less of an issue

Gholdengo also generally benefits from Leftovers and a defensive Tera in Dragon, however if you intend to go Tera Steel you'd go with Metal Coat or Life Orb.

Tornadus wants different investment and benefits from Tera Dark here, take a look at Smogon Strategy Dex for EVs. Rain Dance is best with Gholdengo and the aforementioned Urshifu

Clefairy is less impactful than Amoongus here, who helps your matchups in rain and threatens Spore. Your team mainly being very offensive so the extra friend guard support is unnecessary.

quaint phoenix
#

Thank u

nova quarry
wild sinew
#

While making Flutter Mane a bulkier speed booster set

#

The former suggestion let's you redirect Taunt from Tornadus when trying to set up trick room and frees you into running the superior item in Goggles. They also function as Spore switch ins themselves which your team is in drastic need of.

The redirection gives Kingambit more opportunities to Swords Dance and protects frailer attackers in Chi-Yu

#

The latter let's Flutter slow down the other side and make up for Chi-Yu's middling speed, which is part of what makes them such a great duo. This also gives you a fast paced mode similar to Tornadus without being so passive and you still get the benefits from a redirector. You'd have protect and Icy Wind over one of your fairy stabs and trick room in that case.

nova quarry
#

Ok thx u

pulsar trout
wild sinew
pulsar trout
wild sinew
pulsar trout
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wild sinew
pulsar trout
#

alr thx

#

also why mortal spin over flash cannon?

wild sinew
timber meadow
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

timber meadow
north tree
timber meadow
#

uh oh

north tree
#

Dusclops does 0 damage, tera blast dark is better off being night shade, taunt is also pretty useless and better off being will o wisp

timber meadow
#

I FORGOT NIGHT SHADE WAS A MOVE FUCK

north tree
#

Secondly, you have no trick room sweeper, all your pokemon are relatively mid-speed apart from hisuian goodra, whose set is messed up. Hisuian goodra usually run acid armor, body press heavy slam and protect with leftovers and tera fairy. Gyarados prefers waterfall over aqua tail, crunch and facade are worthless, you might want to run a ddance set with lum berry or the optimal set for gyarados, which is waterfall, thunder wave, taunt and protect.

Arcanine is better off being arcanine-hisui, with rock slide over protect and head smash over extreme speed. Oinkologne would rather have protect and double edge over facade and helping hand and tinkaton doesn't want focus sash but rather a set with maybe a berry and fake out over swords dance.

#

The mons themselves don't seem to have any synergy so I'd reccomend taking Leonard craft's ursaluna-bloodmoon team from iirc peoria

#

Bloodmoon has a lot more immediate pressure than oinkologne and weakness policy is a lot faster and stronger setup than stuff cheeks

#

It also has more offensive pokemon and even a faster mode so you don't have to lean into trick room too much

#

This is the open teamsheet for it, I'd reccomend going to pikalytics or munchstats for spreads

timber meadow
#

ok, trhanks for the advice!

dry shore
#

Any tips (my first own Team) EV Spreads are form smb else

leaden breach
#

https://pokepast.es/b04961bfa0560f9f I am pretty new to vgc, I saw on yt a video with the idea to boost enamorus spa.att/speed and sweep, with thundurus, decide to try make also a team with it. I thought a tauros-paldea aqua as a intimidate user could be good. what do you guys think?

north tree
# dry shore https://pokepast.es/35c2b4a7ab3cadfa

I like chien pao over iron bundle and flare blitz over helping hand on hisuian arcanine. Knock off isn't a particularly good move on ogerpon, substitute, swords dance, follow me, or subsitute are all better options.
You may also want will o wisp instead of protect on hisuian arcanine, that's usually the reason you don't run choice band. I would like to know why roaring moon is on the team is all.

north tree
fathom token
dry shore
#

Bundel was/is in the because i dindt want regi too be the only SPA.

north tree
dry shore
#

plus roa has knock off and i like it a lot

north tree
#

I don't see too much wrong with roaring moon on the team anyways

dry shore
#

the move i mean ^^

north tree
#

I'm just not too sure if the value roaring moon brings is especially good on this team.

leaden breach
#

I made some type mistakes 🙈 yeah mental herb I meant, and the 14 EVs att where on Def, I thought tauros could counter arcanine, thats why

north tree
leaden breach
north tree
# leaden breach Yeah thats a good point, thanks for youre insights! Milotic is there if trickroo...

Enamorus isn't a pokemon that can last on the field a particularly long time, neither is thundy (especially on the physical side). Rillaboom is also liable to get ohkod or 2hkod. Scarf tauros also doesn't benefit sash urshifu at all. Intimidate still brings great value to any team, but this specific team would rather have a scarfer immune to intimidate than a scarfer that provides intimidate. Furthermore, the hisuian arcanine suggestion already gives you a pokemon on that team.

Against trick room, you have plenty counterplay, from extreme speed and grassy glide arcanine, eerie impulse thundurus for bloodmoon teams and potentially deedeerouge assuming you are winning the terrain war, and eerie impulse into tera fairy moonblast provides a massive burst of damage.

#

on that topic, I actually think life orb or fairy feather enamorus is better than leftovers, leftovers may have value on superpower sets but not here since the only thing being boosted is special attack.

leaden breach
#

Thanks for the advice!

digital sierra
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

fresh flicker
digital sierra
#

priority moves are always one of my biggest fears when running tr so i thought this could help, and also having a favorable matchup against kinganbit (and pao if tr is up)

#

also trop kick gives some pretty nice support

fresh flicker
#

@winter gulch

#

I'm not an official rater, usually assist them in rating teams oftenly with the knowledge I do know.

fresh flicker
distant stump
#

If you are running it anyways

#

lorb set with tera water is the best set

digital sierra
#

do i need to change EVs or am i good there?

fresh flicker
#

But you could go for a Intimidate user to help on that regard.

#

Or sacrificing some horsepower could be possible for that.

digital sierra
#

other than that?

fresh flicker
#

That's all I can think of. (And I'm blind you have Harc, mb my apologies)

#

But yea other then that, that's pretty much it.

digital sierra
#

sick

#

thanks

crystal lava
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

simple inlet
#

@crystal lava At first glance the team looks solid, there are a few things I would like to bring to your notice. First of all this team benefits a lot of using rilla boom in the oger pon slot, reduces the fire mons double up, provides fake out support and u can utilise the assault vest item as well, tera fairy on flutter mane is the way to go. The tornadus can be built with more bulk to utilise the sitrus berry item well in general too. Also u would like more attack in landorus to get some crucial kos too. Dark shifu is super strong rn altho I prefer water shifu (that's a personal choice), it also completes the fire water grass core with rilla heatran and shifu water, if u plan to use shifu dark u can run sunny day with heatran and specs flutter with speed investment to get the speed booster in sun but then u would love covert cloak tornadus

crystal lava
#

covert cloak?

wild sinew
# crystal lava https://pokepast.es/8aa7398854a932b7 currently trying to build this in scarlet f...

I'd suggest dropping Tornadus outright for Iron Hands here, the speed seems unnecessary and your team looks like it wants to play a slower playstyle looking at Urshifu-SS/Landorus/Heatran. Iron Hands is just excellent on this compositions, brings fake out opportunities to help you reposition. It also helps your Urshifu matchup more which may seem poor right now.

Ogerpon-Hearthflame -> Follow me Ogerpon Wellspring / Amoonguss, trying to support both it and Urshifu is something your team can't do, redirection support to handle Urshifu is incredibly valuable here and the two are best for the role due to the qualities they possess.

I would make Flutter Mane more offensive here, SpA Booster or Choice Specs depending on preference. With the bulky core you can forego direct speed control and just utilise Scarf Landorus.

winter gulch
#

Covert Cloak prevents Fake Out

wanton abyss
#

Covert Cloak is an item for cowards and those who want to be able to set tailwind without restrictions

wild sinew
#

Covert Cloak is an item for the evil

fresh flicker
stray stratus
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

fresh flicker
burnt surge
#

It's also reg d instead of reg e

stray stratus
fresh flicker
#

I'm not an official rater so I gotta hand this to them.

#

I usually assist them. Basically a unofficial assistant.

wild sinew
# stray stratus Rate me team https://pokepast.es/5945fff4a078e584 shit tuff isn’t it

I'd unfortunately suggest scrapping and grabbing a pre existing team
Leafeon is too weak and frail rn, Torkoal is poor without TR support, Banded Rapid is inconsistent, Kilowatrel is generally outclassed by Zapdos who isn't even good rn, loses into opposing tw, is very passive + frail, and is vulnerable to fake out. Treads does nothing and has a horrible meta mu. You also lack protects and are using hazards, implying you're new to vgc in general.

You can take a look at teams on victory road, here is the most recent event to get an idea of what's good rn
https://victoryroadvgc.com/2024-laic/

Victory Road
Alberto Núñez
2024 Latin America International Championships - Victory Road

The most important tournament this season in Latin America is here! All you need to know about LAIC, held on 17–19 November in São Paulo!

stray stratus
wild sinew
#

They haven't applied

fresh flicker
#

And I don't intend to. I would be glad to give advice and help wherever I can.

#

But I don't intend to be an official rater as I have things in life to do at times.

austere wasp
#

I mean, if you have a suggestion you can feel free to suggest!!

austere wasp
#

Id suggest changing kilo to torn and have double weather thats bout it

winter gulch
#

Its just that Leo is around 24/7 to rate

wild sinew
#

What too much free time does to someone

fresh flicker
crystal lava
pulsar trout
#

i think torn would want tera dark here

wild sinew
# crystal lava I tweaked it slightly https://pokepast.es/2f6cb413887425cc

I think the strongest way to use this composition is by making the Flutter Mane a Farigiraf. This gives you both options of speed control for your middling speed Urshifu and Heatran.

You could also keep the Offensive approach, using Choice Band or Focus Sash Urshifu, and replacing Heatran for Choice Specs / Life Orb Chi-Yu.

distant stump
#

If you go HO though, hearthflame looks a lot better than heatran

wild sinew
#

Also an option ^
In general a more offensive fire nuke that pairs well with Icy wind Flutter Mane

pulsar trout
#

I dont see ogerpon anymore

distant stump
pulsar trout
#

Why is that

distant stump
#

not to say hearthflame is bad, but it doesen't really fit on every team and those options often preform better because they serve their nieche better

pulsar trout
#

Ah i see

#

I remember when ppl were saying its broken asf

distant stump
#

Its "broken af" because it has big damage numbers (Which is true) but people are preparing for it

#

and options like harc just bring more to the table on a lot of teams

wild sinew
winter gulch
#

putting Arcanine on your team triples your chances of winning an event

#

and meta adaptations like Tera Dragon Gholdengo make it hard for ogerpon to do well consistently

distant stump
#

to be fair

winter gulch
#

you click Rock Slide

#

rise of Dragons like Moon are annoying

#

and Harc can actually do something to it

distant stump
#

moon and stuff I agree with

winter gulch
#

its more like

#

you force it to tera to avoid flare blitz then grab your flutter and deal with it

#

or your favorite Torn Ursh bc it still does too much damage

#

either way you make them burn tera

snow bluff
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

fresh flicker
snow bluff
fresh flicker
#

@winter gulch @burnt surge

burnt surge
#

Why are you pinging me

#

Idk shit abt vgc

deep marsh
#

https://pokepast.es/130b606d158008fa

Just threw this team together with the intent to quickly overwhelm opponents and was winning the majority of battles on showdown. Other than that, haven’t given it much thought (as you can probably tell by the EVs lol), but any suggestions?

Also I think I only brought Amoonguss to one game out of all that I played, so any recommendations on what I should replace that with if anything?

wild sinew
# snow bluff Ok, how about this team? https://pokepast.es/c6b84676b99b2723

Id suggest Scarf Landorus over Iron Bundle, which frees you inyo making Tornadus a Sunny Day variant. It isn't nerfed by the sun and keeps a positive matchup into the troublesome Heatran, Flutter Mane would switch into a Timid Choice Specs/Modest Pixie Plate set, abusing protosynthesis from sun and functioning as a strong breaker. This also weakens attacks frpm Urshifu who may give an issue to Tera Fire Iron Hands and the majority of your team.

wild sinew
deep marsh
native knoll
#

hi guys can you vote if it is better team 1 or team 2 thx

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wanton abyss
#

That’s not exactly how this works

#

generally we give you advice on how to improve teams; we aren’t a body of people who will tell you which team out of 2 is better

distant stump
wanton abyss
#

except if you’re Choruto, because they’re nice

native knoll
north tree
chilly jasper
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

chilly jasper
#

Idk I might keep iron hands

#

Yeah I do not like regieleki

pulsar trout
#

eleki is not hot rn

#

also doesnt gholdengo have thunder?

distant stump
#

Wellspring is fine but you generally want the rilla here

#

Specs dengo works better, you dont really have time to set up with the team and dont have any tools to really support it

chilly jasper
#

Okay I have

#

Uh

distant stump
#

Well, I guess wellspring but we covered this

chilly jasper
#

An idea for a mon over ele

#

Articuno-Galar @ Adrenaline Orb
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 113 Def / 175 SpA / 150 SpD / 70 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Hurricane
  • Freezing Glare
  • Shadow Ball
  • Recover
#

I made the evs myself so it is probably terribly optimized

chilly jasper
distant stump
#

Why articuno?

chilly jasper
#

I wanted another special attacker

#

And maybe specs dengo

#

What is the set

distant stump
#

Gholdengo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Good as Gold
Level: 50
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 132 HP / 92 Def / 124 SpA / 20 SpD / 140 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Make It Rain
  • Shadow Ball
  • Thunderbolt
  • Power Gem
#

I reccomend this

#

Articuno is also pretty useless

chilly jasper
#

I will try it

pulsar trout
#

wouldnt u want thunder > thunderbolt here

chilly jasper
#

Yeah because I almost always try to have rain up

distant stump
#

Only for the bulkiest of torns

chilly jasper
#

But I believe in tera steel Articuno, I am at 1200 rn after I dropped like 300 points so I am willing to try it

#

But any suggestions over it?

pulsar trout
#

bundle?

#

oh its galarian articuno

distant stump
#

Competitive, the typing, etc

chilly jasper
#

A special attacker

distant stump
chilly jasper
#

I really don't want to use flutter because it will be a pain to get in game, and bundle would be a third water type

#

Ig I could rilla over oger and peliper or bundle over Articuno

#

How is this

distant stump
#

You want tera fairy/dragon on harc instead of flying

#

dont run mental herb torn its pretty useless

pulsar trout
chilly jasper
#

I believe wholeheartedly in tera flying harca

distant stump
#

I do not

#

But its your call

chilly jasper
wanton abyss
#

Also tera flying H-Arc is both good and bad since you still lose versus opposing H-Arc

#

since you maintain a rock weakness

#

and now you still lose to Hands

chilly jasper
#

But I win against opposing Lando or heatran

wanton abyss
#

in exchange for a better Lando matchup

#

if that’s what you want from that slot, then you can use it

distant stump
wanton abyss
#

it’s not something I want my H-Arc to do

distant stump
#

isen't very usefull

wild sinew
distant stump
#

its just lando

#

and it does 30% after tera fairy

wanton abyss
distant stump
#

I mean

#

compared to the other benfits

wanton abyss
#

ground immunities are great

distant stump
#

of fairy or dragon

#

on harc

wanton abyss
#

I think flying is a more niche typing

#

reducing options into your H-Arc through the threat of a tera immunity is pretty cool

#

it also means you sometimes still lose to common stuff

distant stump
#

Hands weakness is pretty big

wanton abyss
#

if your team is built with that specifically in mind

distant stump
#

You already dont like hands as harc

wanton abyss
#

then it’s a very justifiable choice

#

That’s a big If

#

Because I don’t think your current team supports or can benefit from Tera Flying H-Arc

distant stump
#

lets just put it at that

chilly jasper
#

I probably will go back to tera fairy once I get higher on ladder again

#

But it is useful where I am

#

I really like tera fairy tera blast

wanton abyss
#

your team bodies the shit out of Lando, why do you have more

chilly jasper
#

For roaring moon, nasty plot gholdengo sets who tera dragon usually and chien-pao if I am already choice locked into blast and can't click rock slide lol

wanton abyss
#

no that’s my fault I didn’t specify

chilly jasper
#

Oh I know what you meant

wanton abyss
#

I meant why click Tera Flying when Tera Fairy is better

#

for ur team

chilly jasper
#

I am at 1300 rn, tera flying on harca messes up a lot of people

#

I go back to fairy once I hit 1400

wanton abyss
#

oooooookie dokie

chilly jasper
#

Idk, I want my team to be more mine but I really have so little doubles experience

#

And this is my first vgc season

wanton abyss
#

I respect it

chilly jasper
#

Okay here is it now

#

I would like to point out I made it so booster energy is special attack instead of speed because my team really likes having tailwind up and it is already extremely fast

chilly jasper
#

Taunt is fairly common, even if from opposing torn

#

And my torn kinda is useless if it gets taunted

distant stump
#

Just speed creep your torn a bit

#

ewll

#

If you want you can run it mental is fine

#

I just think there are better options

chilly jasper
#

What item would I even use over it

#

I think I have leftovers free now after changing ghold

#

But it isnt really bulky enough for that to be all that important

#

But it also kinda is?

#

Idk

distant stump
#

I really like sky plate on my tornadus

chilly jasper
#

Oh

#

Covert cloak

#

That blocks secondary effects right?

#

So I can't get faked out

#

I actually like that a lot

distant stump
#

Yeah

#

Thats the most common item

pulsar trout
pulsar trout
#

I shouldve dont specs tatsu instead of scarf

distant stump
#

Better instead of tatsu

pulsar trout
#

Yea

#

Miles better prolly

#

But i just had this idea for so long

north tree
pulsar trout
#

I have harc which benefits from storm drain tatsu

north tree
#

Probably not enough of a reason to use storm drain tatsugiri unfortunately

#

Try looking at Jamie boyt's team from that one regional

#

He ran storm drain tatsugiri in it

pulsar trout
#

What would u suggest i add?

north tree
#

I can't lie

#

I have no idea

#

There is a reason tatsugiri isn't used on its own much

#

I'll dm you tomorrow if I find an idea

pulsar trout
#

Ive had this idea for a long time

#

I believe harc is the best mon for this witbout having 2 fire types

winter gulch
#

although I could swear you were using some wack af Gastrodon set yesterday

#

that would give Tatsu a run for its money

north tree
#

For the set, I saw Slowhomie use it once and thought it was cool

dense nebula
#

Can i get some feedback on this team, i havent really played too much of gen 9 vgc and from my understanding the meta is just a bunch of power houses? https://pokepast.es/eb6fcdce0ee8fd82

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wanton abyss
#

You’re running a Sun team without a lot of Pokémon to benefit from sun (no second fire type or chlorophyll sweeper), and Tornadus commonly runs a weather move to help combat other weather, especially snow

#

A rule of thumb in VGC for me is “if your Pokémon doesn’t have an Assault Vest or Choice Item, they should probably have protect”. That goes for Flutter Mane especially, and Clear Amulet Lando as Well. The concept of the team isn’t bad, it’s just not cohesive. I’d recommend asking yourself “what do I want this Pokémon to DO when it’s on the field?” and evaluate how well it does that when you’re playing. If it’s not doing what you want, change something about it until it does, and if that doesn’t work, see if a different Pokémon can do the job better

dense nebula
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Ive been getting swept alot by dancer abilities

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Ill modify the team a bit. Ty

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Im gonna go experiment with it for a bit

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I forgot to make leafeon tera water

north tree
# dense nebula I believe i have fixed it https://pokepast.es/08f17e4f20d052df

Firstly, this sort of scream tail set is quite uncommon, and cresselia usually runs this set better. If you want to run scream tail in this slot however, run leftovers in order to get some recovery as sun will already give you a protosynthesis boost.

Secondly, you have 0 support for said scream tail setup. Haze murkow removes your own calm mind boosts and since you don't have follow me indeedee, you have no redirection, no fake out, no intimidate and not even a yawn torkoal to help the setup happen.

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Thirdly, leafeon is a bad chlorophyll abuser. Hisuian lilligant is better because it has access to sleep powder, after you into eruption when combined with torkoal and better physical coverage in solar blade and close combat.

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Fourth, landorus I is not the best offensive attacker in this position. Flutter mane by far outclasses it even if you have another fairy on the team.

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Fifth, murkow does not work here at all. The few advantages murkow retains over tornados are absolutely useless here and not worth dying to flutter manes using dazzling gleam without effort. Prankster taunt is already dealt with by indeedee and haze is counterintuitive with a scream tail wincon.

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Sixth, specs torkoal is really hard to position with your team. You have a single trick room setter and no after you lilligant. Even teams with multiple trick room setter and lilligant prefer charcoal torkoal a lot of the time for the consistency of protect but specs are nice option on those teams.

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Seventh, why is leafeon running tera blast water in sun when it's weakened significantly (edit: NVM this I just saw it was weather ball but I still don't agree with tera water) and running impish instead of adamant? Adamant would have more value than impish as leafeon is already heavily invested into attack.

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Eight, the murkow spread is actually harming you significantly. Foul play goes off the opponent's attack stat so you need no attack or special attack investment and prankster makes it so that you need little to no speed investment either. Naive makes you extremely vulnerable defensively, completely nullifying any value eviolite could have had and tera dark just makes sure you can't terastallize out of an incoming fairy move.

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9, why does torkoal have lava plume over heat wave/flamethrower and why is indeedee tera psychic?

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10, Tera grass Lando I still retains your ice weakness, adds a fire weakness and you don't worry about amoonguss when you have weather ball.

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In conclusion, you might want to go back to the drawing board.

leaden breach
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

north tree
distant stump
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Agreed with instertable

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Thundy and enam

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are just not very good strategy

north tree
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This deals with intimidate and provides you with a fire water grass core with a Pokemon to spare

distant stump
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too much investmentent into 1 mon when fluttermane tornadus just does all it does but better

distant stump
leaden breach
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Allright, thanks!

dense nebula
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wild sinew
dense nebula
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Well i can only use 4 pokemon in a battle so i wouldnt be using atleast 2

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If im not using tailwind then ill be using trickroom

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I did something similar in gen 8 and it worked relatively fine

dense nebula
wild sinew
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but pokemon like Amoonguss, Heatran are two passive for the mode

dense nebula
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Who would you replace for them?

rotund crown
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any thoughts on this team? spreads are pretty generic besides flutter but I wanted to toy around with armarouge

image.png
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essentially the idea is tera psychic into uturn to indeedee on myself then expanding force go brrrr

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and even when there are games where the psychic terrain combo can't do much the other 3 still put in work and wisp dragapult has been a pretty good support

pulsar trout
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protect > reflect of pult

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also id feel like pult would want sash or sumthing

rotund crown
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I thought about sash but then it just feels like a waste of EVs if I just run max hp

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colbur has been working decently because of all the chien paos and stuff

pulsar trout
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idk why ur using max hp on pult tbh

pulsar trout
rotund crown
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which is why I just slapped it on HP

burnt surge
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Isn't indeedee + armarouge stuff trick room?

rotund crown
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yeah but weak armor

pulsar trout
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it gets flash fire

rotund crown
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ik I'm just saying it can do both

pulsar trout
#

which id argue is probably better with tera grass

rotund crown
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yeah I just wanted to try smth different

pulsar trout
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https://pokepast.es/392c1793616e0bb0 idk if this team needs Politoed > Scream Tail, if i do i have an idea of making it a rain or mabye a tr + rain + team but idk if that would make the team cramped

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

austere wasp
#

Scream tail is better for perish mode but politoed also works+ it boosts urshifu

pulsar trout
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yea cus what i discovered was that tail doesnt do much after she switches out

native knoll
north tree
# native knoll hi chat can you vote this pls https://pokepast.es/506ecb385f1b9930

Great team! I'm interested to know the reasoning behind ogerpon-teal on the team over a pokemon like amoonguss. Iron hands usually runs more spdef than hp on an assault vest set and doesn't run that much attack investment.

This is due to the law of diminishing returns. Iron hands already has a massive HP and spdef stat so investment into those stats become less impactful, meanwhile investment into special defense is important because:

  1. every point matters more, an increase from 61 to 62 is better than an increase from 5000 to 5001 for example.
  2. Assault vest makes it so that for every 2 points you invest, you actually get 3 as Assault vest gives you a 1.5x boost on special defense.
native knoll
native knoll
wild sinew
# pulsar trout https://pokepast.es/392c1793616e0bb0 idk if this team needs Politoed > Scream Ta...

Scream Tail wants Disable over Wish and Tera Dark, Gothitelle needs to have Fake out and Psychic. You need to think of it less as stall, you have a clear wincon. You want to dodge Tornadus theough Tera but some things like TornFlutter may be problematic, so disabling the fairy move is crucial, it also in general works because it disrupts the moves your opponwnt wants to use and you're free to protect. You should also notably give it Booster Energy here.

Gothitelle wants a better defensive tera and as I said fake out and psychid over screens, this lets you be less vulnerable to Tornadus. Fake out can buy a turn by itself and Psychic can be used to threaten Urshifu who's unseen fist causes problems for Perish Trap. Sitrus gives you more recovery as you're not attempting to last 5 turns.

Highly suggest Sacred Sword or a Dark type move over Ice Shard as you already have priority

Flutter Mane wants to be Focus Sash on these type of teams for more surviavability

pulsar trout
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wild sinew
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252/252 Flutter and other stuff should bw done before you forget

pulsar trout
wild sinew
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also give it perish song over one of the fairy moves

pulsar trout
wild sinew
prime mountain
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wanton abyss
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This is a good core! We don’t build teams here; we edit them. I don’t know enough about the kind of team you wanna build!

chilly jasper
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I keep loosing to indeedee armarouge cores

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How do I fix thay

dense nebula
wild sinew
dense nebula
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im open for anything tbh, i just want to focus on expanding force and scizor

wild sinew
dense nebula
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one shots fluttermane

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and ive been losing to that alot so. figured it'd be a good idea

wanton abyss
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Does it one shot after an intimidate drop?

dense nebula
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lemme see

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its 152% without intim

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so i think?

wild sinew
dense nebula
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ill consider removing annigilape for urshifu

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rage powder doesnt work on grass type pokemon so follow me would be the better choice? @wild sinew

wild sinew
dense nebula
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alrighty

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

north tree
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Which is kinda the entire point of indeedee male

wild sinew
dense nebula
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did i not put trick on it?

dense nebula
wild sinew
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And then the following turn you freely use helping hand/follow me + expanding force

north tree
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Secondly, brick break urshifu is a bit passive on these sort of teams you really want close combat

wild sinew
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^

dense nebula
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should i just get terrain extender

north tree
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Third, idk how well Scizor fits on the team, it's main niche is bullet punch which is blocked by Psy terrain and it doesn't seem to benefit from tailwind too much

wild sinew
north tree
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Being an AV variant more suited to balance

dense nebula
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it doesnt really fit well

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i just wanted a fluttermane counter

north tree
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4, tera water urshifu is better than tera fighting

wild sinew
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Weather ball is pretty bad on Torn and you'd want Taunt and Tailwind

north tree
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This gives you a better flutter mane matchup and more powerful surging strikes

wild sinew
north tree
dense nebula
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most of my team is slow no?

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so wouldnt i want taunt

wild sinew
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The only reason you'd use Tornadus is for Tailwind

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It's not a very good pokemon otherwise

north tree
wild sinew
dense nebula
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nvm i was looking at base speed

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what should i replace scizor for then

north tree
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Your team looks quite fast with urshifu tornadus indeedee male and most likely timid armarouge

dense nebula
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kinda forgot psychic terrain blocks priority

north tree
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If you still want a steel type you can run gholdengo

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Choice specs can do some pretty significant damage for urshifu to clean up endgames

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You could switch indeedee to life orb or even try life orb gholdengo

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Coming onto ev spreads, urshifu usually wants to invest in spdef

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Tornadus does need attack investment and it wants a non flying tera as to not be affected by priority moves under psychic terrain

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This also allows it to potentially drop covert cloak for an item like sitrus berry, focus sash, sky plate or rocky helmet

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Oh and power whip > stomping tantrum on ogerpon rock

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You really want stab on that thing

dense nebula
north tree
dense nebula
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alr, done

north tree
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Gholdengo should be tera steel, get your torn spread from Leo and I think twisted spoon or safety goggles could be good armarouge items or just go back to life orb since it is free now.

wild sinew
dense nebula
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alright, i believe thats all done

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ty for the help

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is leading with tornadus indeedee fine?>

north tree
dense nebula
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figured. so indeedee armarouge is fine and tornadus urshifu is fine?

north tree
dense nebula
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ok, ty

north tree
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In fact the latter is currently one of the best leads in the entire format

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I would recommend rain dance on tornadus to increase urshifu's power though

cunning nexus
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

cunning nexus
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it is horrible

austere wasp
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Why marvel scale 😭

wild sinew
cunning nexus
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yeah i know

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im just messing around

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maybe shouldnt have bothered you guys with something stupid

wild sinew
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Though I think Heatran is just better in that slot and making Hearthflame Follow me Wellspring/Amoonguss

cunning nexus
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really?

wild sinew
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Yeah

cunning nexus
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do you want to see the original milotic

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before i made it a physical attacker

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Mavis (Milotic) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 228 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Scald
  • Icy Wind
  • Haze
  • Protect
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i think it was put here for speed control with the chance of punishing if you read the opponent right

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what's the reasoning for putting heatran and wellspring?

wild sinew
# cunning nexus what's the reasoning for putting heatran and wellspring?

Redirection for Moon who works best as a Dragon Dancer on Balance, Wellspring's typing and abilities make it more consistent than Hearthflame for the role. Heatran is just a really good bulky Pokemon right now, making it nice for balance. Having a fire type and something that can switch into opposing fire types is appreciated

cunning nexus
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thanks i think it did better

hearty gate
#

Is this a good sun based team? Torkoal @ Heat Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
IVs: 0 Atk
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fire
Modest Nature

  • Eruption
  • Earth Power
  • Heat Wave
  • Protect

Lilligant-Hisui (F) @ Focus Sash
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 SpA
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
Tera Type: Steel
Jolly Nature

  • Close Combat
  • After You
  • Sleep Powder
  • Solar Blade

Charizard @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Ability: Solar Power
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fire
Timid Nature

  • Heat Wave
  • Air Slash
  • Solar Beam
  • Flamethrower

Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
Timid Nature

  • Shadow Ball
  • Moonblast
  • Dazzling Gleam
  • Protect

Roaring Moon @ Clear Amulet
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Def / 4 SpD / 84 Spe
IVs: 0 SpA
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Flying
Adamant Nature

  • Knock Off
  • Tailwind
  • Dragon Claw
  • Protect

Ogerpon-Hearthflame (F) @ Hearthflame Mask
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 SpA
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fire
Jolly Nature

  • Ivy Cudgel
  • Spiky Shield
  • Solar Blade
  • Horn Leech
wild sinew
north tree
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I'll do it anyway

wild sinew
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Go for it

distant stump
#

Big thing I say here

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Is that your stacking way too many fire types

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Even on a sun team

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Like 2 is max

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3 is a lot and theres some pretty obvious weakness on your team, namley things like coverage

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And overall commiting to sun isen't very affective

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Actually insertable can you finish it?

north tree
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Third, heat rock on torkoal is completely unnecessary run charcoal instead.

4, hisuian lilligant needs tera ghost, tera steel does not provide enough defensive value especially with hilligant's low bulk.

5, Charizard is not a good pokemon, you would rather bring flutter mane ogerpon or even chiyu on a game to game basis.

6, I don't think roaring moon is particularly useful on the team. Your tailwinder being slower than flutter mane isn't very appealing and no access to acrobatics hurts. Instead, run a better support like iron hands or farigiraf.

7, the team has 0 defensive synergy. Nothing wants to switch into a move. Removing roaring moon and Charizard gives you slots to add defensive pokemon like the aforementioned farigiraf or iron hands.

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8, I think flutter mane or ogerpon fire can benefit from bulkier spreads. Refer to the smogon strategy dex.

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Oh an I quite like icy wind as the last slot on specs flutter for this team

hearty gate
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Ok I have seen all the feedback and it will be taken👍

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Plus I'm quite new to competitive so teams and set-ups may not seem that good but over time I'll understand better thanks for the suggestions for improvement aswell

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Another plus this team was made just for fun

untold estuary
#

Heyo does anyone have a weather team suggestion that I can throw Cyclizar on, I have a shiny one in game and low-key want an excuse to use it lol I already have a sun team as my main team currently

untold estuary
# hearty gate Is this a good sun based team? Torkoal @ Heat Rock EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA...

I'm always that person for using who you love yet too much fire types also matches typically don't last more than 5 turns so you can throw leftovers on your torkol so it has better recovery that's what I do for mine! I'd say replace ogerpon with the water version and have growth instead of solar blade I experimented with it a bit on my sun team and it works well!!

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As for Charizard I'd say use a choice item it'll help you live in the field more

untold estuary
#

Speaking of advice how is the ultra sun/moon team? I wanted to make teams for my favorite gens for fun yet NGL it's hard to tell if it's good if you can't use it yk? I based it mainly off my gen 9 Delphox team that works well and got me third in one of the showdown tournaments however I also wanted to use my two favorite legendaries of this gen Lunala and Xerneas

Screenshot_20231128-081853-308.png
jagged thicket
#

I don’t think Ogrepon has really been helping me, I feel like I’ve only been using it for the grass coverage since I have Pollen Puff on Amoonguss

IMG_5765.png
untold estuary
jagged thicket
untold estuary
jagged thicket
#

Here’s what it’s based on, I swapped grass knot for pollen puff

fresh flicker
#

FIRST OFF

jagged thicket
fresh flicker
#

Torn > Amoongus.

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It helps in speed control.

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Use the standard set, and Tera Dark to avoid enemy Taunt.

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Scarf shifu is okay for now. But ice Spinner and Tera water, it basically ruins rillaboom.

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Arc > Nite or CB nite > AV. Both are good picks.

jagged thicket
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I’ve been using chien-pao to take down rillaboom, they usually try to fake out but I Tera ghost and ice spinner them

untold estuary
#

Ah ty for stepping in like that I was gonna try to throw something out of my ass cause I was confused lol guess my specialty is only weather teams worrywhirl

fresh flicker
#

Rillaboom > Heathpon for fake out support. This helps form a nice little Fire-water-grass core if you choose H-Arc.

jagged thicket
#

Is H-Arc more support oriented?

fresh flicker
#

Nope but stab rockslide is helpful

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If you want support then Arc is the choice, but it's worse.

jagged thicket
#

I guess I’m thinking I may want to switch ogrepon out for a support mon

fresh flicker
#

Really torn is only full blown support you need.

untold estuary
fresh flicker
#

H-Arc, Boom, and Pao provide little bits of support

untold estuary
#

Yet if you don't like torn for whatever reason eviolite murkrow works too!

fresh flicker
#

Also Flutter Mane > Gambit.

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Helps in dragon match ups and helps against the terrifying hands.

untold estuary
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And flutter mane is just broken lol

jagged thicket
#

I do like gambit

fresh flicker
#

However if you want to keep gambit.

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Then drop Pao

jagged thicket
#

It helps itself with flutter

fresh flicker
#

Flutter tends to drop to most physical moves that deal an absurd amount of damage of which this team gets so it's unnecessary.

jagged thicket
#

With your advice I’m getting I should drop pao, and I want to drop ogrepon

#

What should I do then?

fresh flicker
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

jagged thicket
#

What’s this about?

#

The bot I mean

fresh flicker
#

If you want to drop Tera fairy on Arc then tera grass is your choice.

jagged thicket
#

Actually, this changes like 4 of my team, I don’t really want to change more than 3

fresh flicker
#

Harc gives intim, STAB rock slide, and E-Speed + a fire type that can counter fairies.

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That is not to say Firepon is outclassed. They perform entirely different roles.

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But when there's already a fire type, unless your inciniroar. You're definitely not going to be in a team.