I’m onw home from Peoria so uh I’ll get to this later
#VGC Rates
wanton abyss
misty rose
why protect over spiky shield on hearthflame
native knoll
hi chat can you vote my team thx https://pokepast.es/1fb5dcf5591a25d6
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
wild sinew
hi chat can you vote my team thx https://pokepast.es/1fb5dcf5591a25d6
Good 6 that doesn't need pokemon changing
I'd prefer a defensive Tera for Kingambit here, you lack enough speed control and enough consistent support to protect it. Fairy and Fire get my shouts, noteworthy that dark is fine though. Can be used, just think it'll be harder to pilot with the current team
Would suggest Adamant Ogerpon for more field presence and it seems to be built Bulky enough to take hits, making the speed not that necessary.
Swap the hp and spd on Iron Hands for maximum value from Assault Vest, as you have a Water absorb and ground resist redirector, I'd consider Tera Fire which has good matchups into opposing Flutter Mane + Chi Yu and Ogerpon-Hearthflame + Chien-Pao
Lando is fine, I prefer dropping down to 196+ or 116+ for the extra bulk but it is a preference if anything
Your Chi-Yu needs to be bulkier, doesn't need so much Special attack investment and can get away with low speed when you make a change I'll refer later. 212/0/4/124/4/164 Modest is probably enough bulk, living Surging Strikes (after Tera) and Opposing Booster Flutter Mane is more crucial as you're already choice specs imo.
Make Flutter Mane speed booster Energy with Icy wind over Moonblast to better synergise with the team. You lack speed control and a Bulky Chi Yu in particular appreciates it, Beads of Ruin making up for the damage loss. Feels stronger on this team
native knoll
Good 6 that doesn't need pokemon changing
I'd prefer a defensive Tera for Kinga...
ok thx but it is a good team?
native knoll
ok thx
dawn elm
hidden path
tw w gambit and sinistcha doesnt really make sense, seeing as theyre both slow
its like its sole purpose if for ogerpon
also eq n stomping tantrum
on 1 mon
why\
do tera flying tera blast
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/609f0589ebf32323
Ogerpon Hearthflame, Landorus-T, Tornadus, and Kingambit is a great core. Grimmsnarl and Sinistcha however go against it, trying to play a bulkier playstyle which mashes up with the core trying to play a faster paced style.
Would suggest Flutter Mane in replacement of Sinistcha, keeping a Special attacker and other pokemon just being hard to justify over it.
The final slot can be something like Urshifu or Chien Pao, who bring their respective utility while being a fast pokemon under Tailwind. Iron Hands/Rillaboom is also a shout, as a Bulky pokemon for occasions where you are out offenced.
With this in mind, Ogerpon can't reliably run Swords Dance with the minimal support it has and would benefit from Knock Off / Grassy Glide / Taunt / Encore
Make Landorus Adamant, you don't need the extra speed
By the way would recommend using the Showdown sliders instead of manually putting in the numbers, for pokemon like Tornadus, you've wasted EVs as 120 isn't a number
lost phoenix
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/e466fbb860d51cf4
Not a huge fan of Tera Fire Zap when you have Harc and Moon, redirection and fake out when necessary. Steel/Water/Fairy are what you'd look for
Why the speed on Moon? Can get away with dropping a few if not go Adamant. It doesn't need it, esp when you have Tailwind
Would benefit from a slower bulkier wellspring set to perform its role better. 236/76/68/0/44/68 Adamant is an example
Move 1 point from SpA to Speed so you can outspeed Modest Flutter/Adamant Pao. The bulk is questionable but if you're comfortable it should be fine
lost phoenix
Not a huge fan of Tera Fire Zap when you have Harc and Moon, redirection and fak...
the bulk on flutter is for glasses gambit sucker
wild sinew
Find it a bit frail but yh, if you're comfortable it should be fine, you do have Harc
lost phoenix
https://pokepast.es/9586b7dd19f62304 like this yea?
wild sinew
Yes
north tree
https://pokepast.es/9586b7dd19f62304 like this yea?
Might be personal preference here but glide on ogerpon does really well into a lot of matchups
snow bluff
https://pokepast.es/13c067d9b5bd6b50 Trying to go for a sandstorm team with not widely used pokemon. I preferably want to have an iron hands counter without changing a pokemon. However it would be fine if a mon or 2 changed.
fresh flicker
Should we tell him there a reason why sandstorm isn't used as much anymore?
wanton abyss
https://pokepast.es/13c067d9b5bd6b50 Trying to go for a sandstorm team with not ...
The easiest way to say this is that Flutter Mane and Iron Hands run circles around your team. The only thing you have for it is Gastrodon, and that’s going to involve Yawn spam and forcing it off the field. Arcanine can also be an option if you maneuver it correctly, just make sure you don’t let Lando in to Intimidate down your big tera fairy tera blast damage. Speaking of Landorus-Therian, it’s VERY good into your team, and the scarf variant notably does big damage into your team and isn’t too scared back
wild sinew
To me, the best way to fix the team is to remove the TTar + Gastro combo but that seems to be the main idea
wanton abyss
I don’t even think TTar is bad! I just think this team stacks weaknesses in a way that is detrimental to the current metagame
north tree
https://pokepast.es/13c067d9b5bd6b50 Trying to go for a sandstorm team with not ...
Firstly, roaring moon wants to have booster energy speed and acrobatics over u turn, as it hits grass types that threaten gastrodon and tyranitar.
Next, leftovers on gastrodon. The longevity allows you to take advantage of sandstorm chip much better than rocky helmet.
Ogerpon can drop play rough and actually run a focus energy set. This gives ivy cudgel a guaranteed crit with tailwind and sand support while having a defense boost.
After this, kommo is a bit too setup heavy as a special attacker so you can add specs tera fairy flutter mane to deal with iron hands. This also counters the rain teams popping up when paired next to gastro ( be careful round dengo however).
Last mon should be something that facilitates setup like redirection or fake out rather than harcanine. I'd recommend tera fire amoonguss as it deals with both glide spam and iron hands while synergizing with gastro.
untold estuary
Can't use pokepaste cause I'm not home (for some reason it doesn't like my phone-) yet opinions on this team before I do the work to put it into my game. I wanted to use 2 of my favorites being Sawbuck and Delphox
wild sinew
Can't use pokepaste cause I'm not home (for some reason it doesn't like my phone...
Based on the pokemon, Teras, and moveset, I assume you're new to VGC. Would recommend pre existing teams to get a better idea of what's good and standard teambuilding needs.
untold estuary
Based on the pokemon, Teras, and moveset, I assume you're new to VGC. Would reco...
Yeah true the setup was not what I was expecting (only picking 3 mons threw me off guard lol)
wild sinew
Yeah true the setup was not what I was expecting (only picking 3 mons threw me o...
Might be annoying to not use your favourites but it's important to understand VGC and the meta before you try and go for sub optimal pokemon
fresh flicker
Yeah true the setup was not what I was expecting (only picking 3 mons threw me o...
Yea that's very important, Park may have won the regionals with Pachu, but it was for a reason that was viable.
untold estuary
Might be annoying to not use your favourites but it's important to understand VG...
Probably for the best :c
untold estuary
Yea that's very important, Park may have won the regionals with Pachu, but it wa...
I see so the mons you bring in are insanely important
fresh flicker
I see so the mons you bring in are insanely important
Exactly. He chose Pachu for Follow Me, which allowed him to invest in great offense. Pachu took a Draco Meteor for chomp which won Park the championship.
Nowadays Pachu is not viable to its mediocre stats.
And Indeedee and clef are much better users for it.
untold estuary
Oki also I just realized this was the wrong chat lol I'm no good at double battles the team was for single battles using the current format
I do wanna learn double battles don't get me wrong yet slow and steady lol
Apologies for any miscommunication!!
@fresh flicker @wild sinew ^^
wild sinew
Alright, got it
snow bluff
Firstly, roaring moon wants to have booster energy speed and acrobatics over u t...
Thanks, I’ll try this!
untold estuary
So uh after using the wrong channel by mistake I decided eh why not let's do vgc practically the same team yet with edits (note it's my first double attempt using what I know from tournaments) using favorites of mine being Delphox and Sawsbuck. It's been doing well so far with my attempts yet hadn't got the chance to try Zapdos
Yet then again most likely doing well cause I'm low ladder lol
fresh flicker
So uh after using the wrong channel by mistake I decided eh why not let's do vgc...
First off, the team has no synergy and half the mons are quite bad.
And the EVS and moves are quite mediocre.
I recommend to use re-built teams to get a grip of the meta.
untold estuary
?? What do you mean by no synergy? Torkol drought gives a buff to Sawsbuck, Flutter Mane, and Delphox. Clefable is a tank healer to take attention off the weaker 2 and Zapdos.. imma be honest idk lol
No offense I just wanna understand cause it's a lot of synergy to me
fresh flicker
?? What do you mean by no synergy? Torkol drought gives a buff to Sawsbuck, Flut...
In doubles, Koal is on trick room teams to nuke with Eruption.
And Torn is used to set up sun instead as koal is rather slow.
Buck is a bad pick.
Firepon is a better pick.
fresh flicker
And Torn is used to set up sun instead as koal is rather slow.
And torn provides speed control with tailwind and icy wind.
north tree
Yet then again most likely doing well cause I'm low ladder lol
Are you playing DOU?
Since you can't have two leftovers on the same team in vgc
fresh flicker
And that.
untold estuary
What no it let me in
fresh flicker
Item clause.
untold estuary
Might be a weird bug cause I managed to play 2 matches with this
untold estuary
Yep
north tree
Vgc 2023 regulation e?
untold estuary
Yep yep
north tree
Wow
fresh flicker
Think you did DOU.
fresh flicker
Did you use all 6 in the same match?
untold estuary
No it was 4 only
north tree
Did you use all 6 in the same match?
That does not matter
Oh you meant for dou vs vgc
untold estuary
It's a showdown bug and my dumbass forgot item claus lol
north tree
Locks me out when I try playing with item clause
Log on to an alt and try playing a ladder game
untold estuary
Fixed it gave Zapdos boots
untold estuary
Log on to an alt and try playing a ladder game
Thats so weird
Guess it was quickly patched
untold estuary
Ig that's cause of eviolite
north tree
Protect over zen headbutt on sawsbuck
north tree
Ig that's cause of eviolite
That and friend guard
tulip totem
friend guard > leftovers
north tree
Close combat over brick break on zapdos
tulip totem
that 25% reduced damage is gonna do a lot more for you than 1/16 hp back a turn
north tree
And run an offensive item like life orb or focus sash instead of boots
Stealth rock isn't used at all in vgc
untold estuary
Huh okay noted for that
north tree
Speaking of that the torkoal set can be fixed
Games in vgc are short enough that heat rock isn't needed
untold estuary
Damn crazy how different the metas are for doubles against singles
tulip totem
the lack of a dynamic banlist really changes the meta
north tree
The main two torkoal sets are eruption heat wave earth power protect
untold estuary
Ooo nice to know!
north tree
Or if you don't have trick room
untold estuary
Or if you don't have trick room
Most likely won't no offense yet not a fan of playing with that
north tree
Overheat helping hand protect and either earth power or will o wisp
Item is eject pack
The idea is to get torkoal off the field and pivot into a sweeper like flutter or sawsbuck
untold estuary
Oki!
So like this?
Didn't change the tera lol
Ngl a very confusing mechanic gotta get into the habit of using it more
north tree
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
north tree
I'm trying to help someone, please don't trash this team guys
north tree
what does Sawsbuck hit offensively
Not my team
winter gulch
that Gapdos ser needs to be fixed, and I would move Swasbuck Sash to Pao
well I'm rating it so I'm just saying it shouldn't be there
untold estuary
I actually had a really good Sawsbuck game that I uploaded
north tree
yeah idk what to do for the sawsbuck slot
untold estuary
Lemme grab it rq
winter gulch
I would probably go for a more offensive Torkoal this series? not 100% sure though
I would personally replace Gapdos with something that abuses sun but if you replace Sawsbucj, Gapdos can just be a fast sweep which is good. Just make sure it outspeeds Scarf Lando
north tree
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2023regulatione-1964128484
Why don't you try ogerpon hearthflame?
It also gets horn leech, and it takes advantage of sun well
untold estuary
Eeehh not as cute- yet it's a new one so wouldn't hurt to try ig
north tree
Terastalizing it gives it +1 attack instantly and you can run swords dance
untold estuary
Ooo okay that sounds cool
north tree
Tornadus could also be a replacement for zapdos in this case
since it can use tailwind and make everything super fast
tulip totem
oger gets grassy glide as well, so it pairs pretty nicely with rilla, and grassy terrain reduces your earthquake weaknesses for koal and phox
untold estuary
Hmm let me try to make this with your feedback brb and tysm
I think I got it right!
I tried lol
winter gulch
where did the flutter go
tulip totem
fake out > taunt/acro on rilla imo
or bulk up, even, you're not gonna get a lot of free turns to set up
you're also still overgrow so remember to switch that for grassy surge
untold estuary
Oh woops
Ty for pointing that one out
Okay NOW I got it.. I think
Oops
Stupid screenshot messed up
winter gulch
Dazzling Gleam > Hyper Voice
untold estuary
Dazzling Gleam > Hyper Voice
Wouldn't moonblast be better? More power
WAIT FUCK IM DUMB
winter gulch
spread damage, hitting both pokemon for 60BP is often better than hitting one for 95
tulip totem
i also don't believe fling would work on hearthflame, it might be one of the unremovable items, spiky shield would do a lot more for you
untold estuary
Oki! Ty
woven rose
You can’t really get away with running flutter without any bulk anymore
toxic socket
why no fire stab on oger?
scenic kite
Without speed control or redirection? How are you going to make that sd oger work?
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
distant stump
whats frostmoth doing there lol
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/e52277fdb4e399fe
Frosmoth is unviable, with Goodra and Sneasler being bad. Team has minimum synergy
Would recommend looking at recent results/rentals (and ideally using them) to get a better idea of the meta, what is good, what works well together.
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-e/
Peoria was only last weekend so this should be a good starting point
distant stump
Yeah, I wish frostmoth was better but its practically useless
topaz edge
https://pokepast.es/8a574706df88871f Hyper offense team
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
topaz edge
oh whoops. i copied over H-arcanines set from a different team
austere wasp
Would suggest chien pao over smthg but the 6 is solid enough
topaz edge
my concern is this team is very physical so idk what i should do for dealing with intimdates and burn possibilites.
distant stump
Biggest thing is the ev;s
Also I dont reccomend sash urshifu
Mystic or choice scarf is usually just better
I would put at least some investment into special attack on tornadus
Urshifu with scarf beats landorus
harc and oger kinda overlap in roles, I agree in switching one of them out for chien pao
Or another attacker
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/8a574706df88871f Hyper offense team
Great! Fine, but the more optimal choices would probably be;
While Tera Grass is fine, Tera Fairy (With Tera Blast over protect) is stronger this regulation to not be weak into the Ogerpons its supposed to intimidate, your weakness being steels like Gholdengo which you already threaten. Every Banded Harc was this set at Peoria Day 2 to give you an idea
Would actually suggest Ogerpon-Hearthflame -> Chien-Pao. Makes a physically oriented team more acceptable, and Harc in particular loves it as a partner.
With access to Hisuian Arcanine and Chien-Pao, most Torn will not dare Taunt first turn, this let's you drop a lot of that speed to invest into Physical defence and and Special attack to give Tornadus both more longevity and a presence on the field.
With the Ogerpon slot free'd up, I think this team appreciates Rillaboom more. You aren't stacking on types anymore and keep a Fire-Water-Grass core. Your Amoonguss counterplay is also incredibly limited, even keeping Grass Harcanine. While you have options to kill it, a defensive Tera or the need to switch in would put you in a bad position. Rillaboom helps with the matchup.
Assuming you go Focus Sash Chien Pao (You could go Life Orb which is harder to pilot, but I'd still recommend changing Urshifu's item, though sash is fine), I'd recommend going Choice Scarf or Mystic Water Urshifu, it has enough bulk and appreciates the boosts the items give, which is why you'll see more of these than Focus Sash, even on teams without Chien Pao.
distant stump
One more thing
I would reccomend at least adding some speed on hands
and removing the HP
its more efficient to add defenses since its HP stat is already so high
topaz edge
Thanks you two!
hidden path
https://pokepast.es/8a574706df88871f Hyper offense team
why cb protect on arc
hidden path
Frosmoth is unviable, with Goodra and Sneasler being bad. Team has minimum syner...
i dont get it, why is sneasler bad?
unburden fake out w normal gem goes hard
fresh flicker
i dont get it, why is sneasler bad?
It doesn't have good bulk. Frail sweepers in Singles don't translate well into doubles.
hidden path
k
fresh flicker
And it actually can't afford to go bulky either.
So it's outclassed as a fighting type by urshifu if you want a decent speedy strong attacker.
topaz edge
why cb protect on arc
I copied over the move set from a different team and forgot to change it to wild charge
topaz edge
I’d appreciate it!
quaint phoenix
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
quaint phoenix
Idk what to add
wanton abyss
You have two choice bands, for one
If you’re running nasty plot + bulk, then I would suggest running Iron Hands + Amoonguss/Sinistcha for your backs
quaint phoenix
If you’re running nasty plot + bulk, then I would suggest running Iron Hands + A...
sounds good
wanton abyss
yeah the team seems very aggressive and it also looks like it super duper struggles into Torn tailwind. Turning peilippet into tailwind/wide guard support would shore up that matchup
distant stump
I'd add some sort of electric resist or smh to counter electric types and a form of speed control
quaint phoenix
I'd add some sort of electric resist or smh to counter electric types and a form...
I got volt Absorb
distant stump
Well yeah
wanton abyss
one ability does not fix that matchup
distant stump
Ya
quaint phoenix
Do u have a spread??
north tree
Scarf lando t thundy t peli and basc does ask for bundle problems tho
distant stump
Do u have a spread??
1 sec
quaint phoenix
k
north tree
100hp 116atk 36def 4spdef 252spe
distant stump
Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 100 HP / 116 Atk / 36 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
Stomping Tantrum
Tera Blast
Rock Tomb
U-turn
north tree
Leo spread
quaint phoenix
hahaha
north tree
Onto bundle problems
quaint phoenix
yea
north tree
Hands does well for both ig
quaint phoenix
I like rilla more tbh
north tree
Rilla is cool but in my experience using rilla it isn't as good into bundle as one might think
distant stump
Honestly
north tree
Ig next to scizor you have some pressure to ohko it
distant stump
Your kinda fucked in the bundle match up
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Tera-Steel Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Bundle: 102-122 (77.8 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This aint even close
quaint phoenix
Ig next to scizor you have some pressure to ohko it
ill calc give me a sek
north tree
Glide plus bpunch is what I meant
distant stump
Glide plus bpunch is what I meant
that ko's
north tree
I'm not too sure about scizor in general in an ogerpon format
quaint phoenix
i guess cc for knock
distant stump
Ya
quaint phoenix
mhh
north tree
And sciz does nothing for most matchups
quaint phoenix
mane
north tree
It's a flutter mane remover mostly and the team is not concerned about mane
wanton abyss
You’re rain, you don’t super care about flutter mane
north tree
Not in particular
wanton abyss
Esp if you have amoonguss
wanton abyss
Your priority is generally taking KOs fast
north tree
Would recommend twind peli
wanton abyss
Okay let’s clarify a few things first
north tree
Means basc just goes hard vs opposing twind
wanton abyss
@quaint phoenix , what do you want this team to do
wanton abyss
Win is not an acceptable answer
quaint phoenix
wait
I kinda want it to be a hybrit hyper off and a thundo sweep mode kind of thing
north tree
So essential mons = peli thundy basc?
quaint phoenix
yea
distant stump
So
distant stump
Hands/rilla and then lando I think is a good start
You could do smh like fighandsfish or whatever the name was
in reg d
wanton abyss
I agree with either Hands or Rilla as a good defensive backbone
quaint phoenix
id go w hands
wanton abyss
FigHandsFish was not rain and idk if that can be translated to the kind of team they’re trying to build
distant stump
Nah I mean
with basc a bulky core with rilla or hands for fake out utility for coverage
distant stump
I agree with either Hands or Rilla as a good defensive backbone
yeah that
quaint phoenix
yes
north tree
Peli gives the fig then
quaint phoenix
av hands ?
north tree
Yeah av
wanton abyss
The best is the vest
north tree
Peli hands something basc
This gives the basc mode
Peli hands redirection thundy
Gives a nasty ploy mode
Plot*
quaint phoenix
ok
wanton abyss
I think something like Pao in the last slot could supplement Hands + Basc really well
north tree
I'm wondering if you can get away with rilla too
quaint phoenix
What hands set should i be using tho?
wanton abyss
Double fake out IS good
north tree
Miracle seed rilla might ohko bundle with glide
wanton abyss
It can OHKO bundle yeah but you need a fair amount of investment and not to be intimidated
north tree
^
wanton abyss
So we’re looking at basc/pelipper/hands/thundy/redirection/pao?
distant stump
Nah dont bother trying to ohko bundle
quaint phoenix
Yeah pao I think is a good idea
i did in fact consider thjs
north tree
Maybe not redirection
quaint phoenix
this
distant stump
wild charge from hands is usually enough or rilla wood hammer
north tree
Double fake out might be enough
quaint phoenix
wait
north tree
Fake out chip does add up for wildbolt kos too
wanton abyss
The team doesnt actually have fantastic ways to consistently hit lando if you don’t have rain up
wanton abyss
Alright slow down
quaint phoenix
hear me out
wanton abyss
I too enjoy LO pao
north tree
The team actually looks more solid the more I look at it
distant stump
-4 236 Atk Life Orb Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Ice Spinner vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 172-203 (104.2 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This is the dumbest calc
ever
Lorb pao is the best set fight me
wanton abyss
4/4 is more common, and some are running 44/4 or 84/4 for the -1 spinner stuff while tera’d
north tree
Confortable in both fast and slow pace
north tree
-4 236 Atk Life Orb Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Ice Spinner vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landor...
Haha let's go
wanton abyss
But yeah i think last mon is amoonguss or sinistcha
distant stump
Dumbest win ever
wanton abyss
Because they love rain
north tree
Lorb pao is the best set fight me
Smh where the band pao love at
quaint phoenix
hear me out
Scizor (252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Steel Sword of Ruin ) vs. Iron Bundle
Bullet Punch 103.8% - 123.6%
distant stump
Wow
thats an interesting calc format
Idk man
What is bundle realistically gonna do
to chien pao + scizopr
wanton abyss
You seem really set on Scizor
north tree
This might seem crazy
quaint phoenix
not rly
wanton abyss
When Scizor isn’t providing much to the team in terms of coverage and depth
wanton abyss
Better teams for it than this IMO
distant stump
Try
north tree
But drop basc and start again
distant stump
Or smh focused on late game strenght
wanton abyss
I think the six we laid out is fine
north tree
^
distant stump
I think the six we laid out is fine
Which 6?
north tree
Scizor fits on completely different teams
wanton abyss
Pelipper/basc/hands/thundy/pao/amoonguss or sinistcha
distant stump
I've lost track
quaint phoenix
same
north tree
I think rilla might be good over amoong or cha
wanton abyss
True
north tree
Actually gives a bundle mu
wanton abyss
Counterpoint
distant stump
Mkay
wanton abyss
No one’s running goggle
distant stump
gimme a sec i'll assemble something like that
north tree
And the prio offense goes crazy
quaint phoenix
Pelipper/basc/hands/thundy/pao/amoonguss or sinistcha
where did lando go?
distant stump
What peliper item?
wanton abyss
Hands Pao schmooves all over bundle
Hell, amoonguss or sinistcha schmooves over bundle
north tree
They still get chunked hard
wanton abyss
One of the things you gotta accept is that most rain gets cooked by Bundle
north tree
Fair
quaint phoenix
soo
wanton abyss
It’s gonna be a losing matchup whether we put rilla or a redirector there
quaint phoenix
how about this?
north tree
Pao rilla is such a goated combo
quaint phoenix
how about this?
north tree
Grass type over lando
Rillaboom amoonguss or sinistcha
Amoonguss to spore everything in existence
Rillaboom to take your priority to silly levels
And sinistcha if you're looking to start a villain arc
quaint phoenix
yea
distant stump
Also specs peli?
quaint phoenix
Also specs peli?
what would u go for?
distant stump
Sash
north tree
Aqua jet over crunch on basc
quaint phoenix
ok
distant stump
Lorb basc?
north tree
Perhaps magnet thundy over lefties
quaint phoenix
how about band busk lorb pao and sash peli
north tree
Thundy is never getting value of lefties
quaint phoenix
in my testgame it did
north tree
Vs what?
quaint phoenix
a pao rilla core
distant stump
on thundy
north tree
a pao rilla core
How was that not just an autoloss?
Thundy gets hit by crash or glide
quaint phoenix
i won
distant stump
What the
north tree
Cloudish built diff
quaint phoenix
haha
distant stump
So you still want to use lefties?
quaint phoenix
totally
distant stump
Mkay
north tree
What about sitrus?
quaint phoenix
onn?
north tree
Thundy
north tree
Grass type over lando we decided
wanton abyss
we
north tree
Well you were included
north tree
Bye tea
quaint phoenix
:(
untold estuary
So uhh I wanted to try to make a team using my favorite maybe meta Mon Pawmot yet uhh it isn't really working I think it's obvious what the issue is yet I can't see it lol
Screenshot messed up lol
distant stump
Uhh
I can make a lot of small nitpicks
but honestly if you want to use pawmot and mismagius use it, but if you want a good team you just cannot use them
the power level is just too high
cursive mason
Pawmot might actually be better when the power level gets higher lol
But yeah I would not advise using mismagius or pawmot for a competitive team
You could maybe make pawmot work since it at least has revive but mismagius is just bad
north tree
Pawmot might be good on dozo teams tbh
The damage next to chien pao isn't horrible
Reviving a 50% dnite sounds cool
Might be worth it over chiyu on some 2 2 2 teams
Do the revived mons keep their tera intact?
untold estuary
Idk yet I wanted to make Pawmot a sweeper lol wayyy to squishy for a support imo
untold estuary
But like why use pawmot
Cause cute fight me 
untold estuary
Hey at least it's not Delphox I'd do that if I could yet I tried and it's better for singles sadly
north tree
Pawmot is like
untold estuary
Also nice you manage to make your favorite work!!
north tree
Hit then revive
You usually go to sash
Honestly if you wanna use pawmot
Run dondozo tatsugiri flutter mane pawmot chien pao dragonite
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
quaint phoenix
ok chill
iron robin
https://pokepast.es/6ef22d2c2cf20bdd Can you help me?
I wanted to give a chance and try out Ogerpon's Cornerstone form on VGC but I wasn't able to achieve success with this team. My main focus was making use of Sturdy there on Ogerpon. How can I improve it?
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
wanton abyss
https://pokepast.es/6ef22d2c2cf20bdd Can you help me?
I wanted to give a chance ...
Hi! Appreciate the RockPon love. A few of the things that I noticed right off the bat is that you aren’t utilizing the rock-type Ivy Cudgel that makes Cornerstone Ogerpon stand out. Definitely use that over rock tomb, you’ll see the damage increase. A few other things, rapid fire: Sash Pao NEEDS protect, it’s very vulnerable otherwise; Gardevoir is pretty cool right now but it struggles against Flutter Mane, a common Pokémon, and can’t hit much for big super effective damage other than Iron Hands, which eats those hits anyways. I would suggest finding another Pokémon other than Gardevoir that does something similar. AV tran is sick, and Rocky Helmet Lando is a cool chocie right now. I will say, your team would probably benefit from a fast pivot in Choice Scarf Lando-T, and really thinking about what you want your Pokémon to DO when they’re on the field. Common situations you find yourself in, those are the best things to calc for
distant stump
Agreed with pretty much everything there. Theres a lot of minor problems with the team and the evs are far from optimal, but honestly your team just isent really utilizing rock pon
It really benefits from helping something set up
Things like roaring moon
Or maybe milo
Also gardevoir is outclassed by hatterene for tr or flutter outside
iron robin
Thank you! So I am going to give Protect to Pao over Acrobatics (or maybe Sacred Sword?) and replace Gardevoir with Enamorus or Mane. I want to change Lando-T's item cus it wasn't that beneficial as I've seen so far but Idk what to use if I can't go with scarf + how to spread Evs for him. Finally the reason behind not using Ivy Cudgel is because that I don't use Tera on Ogerpon as it loses it's Sturdy and I don't think Rock moves are that efficient in this meta so Rock Tomb was enough to give decent dmg for those which are weak to it and Speed drop was advantageous too. I again don't know what to do with her, maybe I should replace it with it's Water form or something else?
wanton abyss
Oh! So fun fact about Cudgel, the type change happens as soon as Ogerpon wears the mask. Ivy Cudgel changes type even if you don’t Terastalize. The mask also boosts Grass and Rock moves by 1.2x just by Ogerpon wearing it. So Ivy Cudgel is a base 120 Rock Type move with 100% accuracy and a high crit rate, all without Tera. It’s a better Stone Edge.
Acrobatics isn’t very useful on Pao, as it won’t hit anything extra that stab + sacred sword doesn’t hit. I’d recommend slapping scarf on Landorus-T. In my opinion, it’s the best scarf Pokémon in the metagame right now, and it can reliably run 252/252 max atk max speed adamant (or jolly if you need to outspeed the others)
tulip totem
what spread would you guys reccomend for a bulky torn?
wanton abyss
Live 156+ adamant surging strikes
you’re not eating wild charge
enough speed to outrun a few other torn and be comfortable losing the speed tie
tulip totem
what's the average speed they run?
distant stump
what spread would you guys reccomend for a bulky torn?
EVs: 164 HP / 68 Def / 92 SpA / 68 SpD / 116 Spe
This is what I use
I think this should be fine for bulk
EVs: 220 HP / 108 Def / 116 SpA / 4 SpD / 60 Spe
woven rose
https://pokepast.es/7e6a5e5da9539231
I have never really played a trick room team so I may be doing it completely wrong but I thought I would attempt to put a little spin on the team Leonard Craft used at Peoria and I'm wondering what I could improve on it
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/7e6a5e5da9539231
I have never really played a trick room tea...
I think the main issue you're finding is that you're focusing too much on the Trick room mode. Dusclops + Bloodmoon is intended to be a duo slapped onto an already strong Balance core
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/7e6a5e5da9539231
I have never really played a trick room tea...
So Sinistcha would probably be replaced with Flutter Mane, or Gholdengo/Kingambit, Flutter Mane outputting much more damage and the switch options easying up the choice lock of Specs. While Gholengo and Kingambit can use the strong defensive options to set up and sweep.
If you don't go for Flutter Mane you'd find another pokemon over Heatran, Chi-Yu and Hisuian Arcanine are exceptional fire types rn, Chi Yu would want Choice Specs on this comp so you would probably favour Arcanine if you go with it.
If you go for Gholengo/Kingambit I'd recommend Follow me Ogerpon, and you may want to look at the Strategy Dex for EVs on certain pokemon
iron robin
Oh! So fun fact about Cudgel, the type change happens as soon as Ogerpon wears t...
https://pokepast.es/78dd2cdf6943e490 I've gone through those changes and very glad with this version of the team. Tysm again!
wanton abyss
I’m glad you’re liking the team :))
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/78dd2cdf6943e490 I've gone through those changes and very gl...
These are more minor but consider 12/4/4 bulk or at least moving the 4 to defence on Pao. Your Flutter would also want to be bulkier, whether you want the SpA or Speed boost is your choice. 76/140 is a nice benchmark imo
woven rose
So Sinistcha would probably be replaced with Flutter Mane, or Gholdengo/Kingambi...
I realized as soon as I posted this that I was way too slow and that if I don't set trick room I just lose lol
wild sinew
Yh
woven rose
I'm going to cook a little and come back
I'm really wanting to use sinistcha 🥲
Would I be correct in saying that Heatran is more of a slow option for a fast team (like iron hands) instead of an actual trick room core pokemon?
wild sinew
Would I be correct in saying that Heatran is more of a slow option for a fast te...
Yes
You may want to take a look at Peoria teams for Sinistcha as an inspiration
pulsar trout
https://pokepast.es/ce3c6eef097f4933 i tried making semi room
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
austere wasp
Depends on what u need both ursas r epic
pulsar trout
whats the difference between them (other then one being a sp attacker and one being a phys attacker)
distant stump
whats the difference between them (other then one being a sp attacker and one be...
Both have slightly different roles on the field and in how they set up/apply pressure
Regular Ursaluna needs at least 1-2 turns to set up with burn and to get a swords dance up (Which you really want to offset intimidate and for just more damage)
Bloodmoon doesen't really need any set up, except for calm mind strats.
Blood moon has more survivalbility because you can run lefties and dont have the ticking burn damage
pulsar trout
i just realised i got specs + protect
distant stump
But you trade out a lot of field presence
distant stump
i just realised i got specs + protect
dont run specs blood moon
at that point just use ursaluna
pulsar trout
i replaced it lo
distant stump
guts is just a specs where your immune to spore moves
I think regular ursa is better than blood moon but if you want to run it use it
distant stump
https://pokepast.es/ce3c6eef097f4933 i tried making semi room
Your stacking
so many follow me users
Sinis, deedee, and oger
Ok so oger doesent have it
pulsar trout
i was thinking cress > indeedee and base ursa > bm
distant stump
that would probarly be a good start
Honestly though
You could run something like farigiraf
You dont got a reliable way to set up tr outside of follow me, weak to taunt and fake out
pulsar trout
what do i replace to make room for farigiraf
distant stump
Probarly deedee
then I think switch out goodra
Problem is you dont have that much offensive pressure with your team
Goodra is more of a late game win con but what are you gonna use to get to that late game?
pulsar trout
what do replace goodra with
distant stump
Hmm
distant stump
Prolly
Ok 1 second
If your gonna go chi yu
I reccomend not going for trick room
pulsar trout
yea true
distant stump
I mean
Maybe something like this?
I would switch out stuff you dont like
but as a start its probarly fine
pulsar trout
alr thx
distant stump
gl with your team
sand minnow
just made a trick room team, any thoughts? https://pokepast.es/b9663698930bdf74
UPDATE: ursaluna got tera steel instead of tera fairy
sand minnow
the team without it is extremely weak to fairy types, which is why i switched over
distant stump
I reccomend poison
It gives you resistance to grass, fairy, and fighting which are all super usefull
sand minnow
thx
distant stump
Then I wouldent use lorb on Urshifu, I think band if you want damage or focus sash is better if your gonna run tera dark
252+ adamant Maushold with no offensive moves
is not good lol, if your gonna run pop bomb use jolly
sand minnow
super fang is an offensive move, no?
distant stump
No
Super fang cuts the opponents HP by half, no matter what it is
If you want to run sash offensive switch it out with population bomb and run jolly
0 speed iv brave urshifu is 91 speed which is bad for tr
You get outspeed by most slow mons
I would pump the speed up a bit, and maybe go tera poison choice band
and spam sucker
sand minnow
i would prefer to keep speed as low as possible, bc its a trick room team
distant stump
Well yeah but its urshifu
91 speed is bad for trick room, I wouldent bother with that
also you dont need everything to be min speed in tr, some faster options are fine for late game or early game
Sucker punch is prio anyways
Then I think you gotta axe farigiraff or cresselia
Both of them overlap heavily in their roles on your team, and having 3 supports who basically cant do anything is a bad idea.
Either switch out farig for hands, or another tr set up/support
or switch out cress and go more speedy, so you have a mix
fathom token
https://pokepast.es/52bd637692ea9f05
when I firstly thought of making this team, I wanted flutter and garchomp to be an offensive and dangerous pairing, but then, as I started testing it, I figured out that they need a lot of support before being an actual menace
-(tailwind, sunny day for protosynthesis...)- then I had more ideas like the scarf hisuian typlosion and the rillaboom + ogerpon grass... I feel like its a solid team
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
wild sinew
My rate!
distant stump
?
wild sinew
Nothing dw
distant stump
I have some thoughts but i'll see what you say
fathom token
wot 
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/52bd637692ea9f05
when I firstly thought of making this team,...
Okay so while Ground + Fairy coverage is really strong, Garchomp is the weak-link here. Landorus-T (preferably Scarf) can perform the same role with Intimidate utility, making up for Flutter's low physical defence, while also being the best Ogerpon check in the format.
Flutter Mane would be better off with Choice Specs here, and you'd want at least 76 hp /140 def bulk to live a Chien-Pao Icicle Crash. You're too vulnerable to faster/same speed threats without the extra defensive investment.
Typhlosion would also want to get replaced here, even if Scarf isn't taken, it doesn't output enough damage outside of sun and is vulnerable to a lot of the tier, Sucker Punch Chien Pao and Opposing Scarf Landorus/Urshifu standing out. Your own Chien-Pao looks very strong here, enabling more damage for your team while being one of the best pokemon on Tailwind HO.
While Ogerpon is good here, I'd suggest going for Hearthflame to better take advantage of sun, especially after you lack a Fire type when Typhlosion is replaced
On a side note, I would recommend taking a look on the Smogon Strategy Dex (https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-e/) to get a better idea of EVs, nothing is as big as bulk less Flutter Mane but you're wasting EVs on Rillaboom and Garchomp as examples, and using EVs that are probably not preferred on other pokemon. A tip for when you make your own spreads, is that it starts out with 4 EVs and then a stat point gets added for every 8, (4, 12, 20, 28, 36 etc aren't wasting EVs), in short your EVs must be a number divisible by 4 but not divisible by 8
distant stump
That sounds a whole lot more menacing
Than I planned
Yeah tyhplo is really weak now
You need scarf to outspeed lando and other threats, you need to tera for the damage
and even then its super underwhelming
and its like a paper straw
wild sinew
Expanding on it a bit, while this is definitely respectable damage
252+ SpA Typhlosion-Hisui Eruption (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 118-141 (71.5 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Typhlosion is too frail and even some chip forces you to switch out as eruption is weak now, not being able to break through things like no bulk Landorus and Flutter Mane is just not enough for the current power level
fathom token
Okay so while Ground + Fairy coverage is really strong, Garchomp is the weak-lin...
wow :0
-Its kinda sad to leave my lil garchomp friend, but I see what you mean, landorus-t is rlly strong 
-I see what you mean with chien-pao, tho I still have got tailwind on my side... wait, but the enemy can also have a tornadus... okay, I'll do it
-I'm a bit scared of changing typhlosion here, I think that an eruption mon would be interesting in the team
I could reinforce em with tera fairy if that saves his ass from a sucker punch, and it still has got shadow ball and flamethrower hitting hard, with focus blast as coverage for that same chien-pao
-I've always thought that heartflame ogerpon doesn't need sunny day support, it already hits like a truck, and it would make sense to add em if I change typhlosion, but I still don't know if I'm gonna do that
-Lastly, I did hear a while ago about how not adding EVs that are divisible to 8 can result in not adding the ammount you want for the mon, tho I didn't fully believe it cuz I thought decimals exist in EV calculations XD
I'll take it into account if you say so, it makes sense
fathom token
Expanding on it a bit, while this is definitely respectable damage
252+ SpA Typ...
you didn't take sun into account there
it doubles the damage, and if I decide I want to go for just one of them, I can still use flamethrower that does not take reduced damage from user's HP
lost phoenix
it doubles the damage, and if I decide I want to go for just one of them, I can ...
Sun doesnt double the damage
1.5x boost only
fathom token
Everything is too fast and strong for poor tyhplo
I believe in em 
lost phoenix
252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 93-109 (53.1 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Typhlosion-Hisui Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 100-118 (57.1 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Typhlosion is only barely stronger than chi yu even at max health
Chi yu also has a stronger secondary stab and is faster and not weak to sucker punch
fathom token
as I said before, sun isn't taken into account there, and I can still use flamethrower
lost phoenix
Sun also boosts chi yus damage
fathom token
Chi yu also has a stronger secondary stab and is faster and not weak to sucker p...
I can put tera type fairy for defensive reasons, as I also said before
lost phoenix
So it doesnt matter
Even if you tera your eruption is still weaker than chi yus heat wave
fathom token
Sun also boosts chi yus damage
heat wave can miss, and that's underwhelming
flamethrower or eruption doesn't
lost phoenix
Heat wave is more consistent due to working at any hp
fathom token
chi-yu is also a lot more fragile than typhlosioin
lost phoenix
And blaze flamethrower is still weaker than chi yu overheat
distant stump
chi-yu is also a lot more fragile than typhlosioin
No its not
Chi yu has 50% more spedef and the same defense
only like 10 hp difference
lost phoenix
No point arguing, typhlosion is just worse.
distant stump
plus the typing is way better
fathom token
shit true
damn it
how do I always get a wrong perspective about what's better and what's worst
fathom token
🥹
austere wasp
Chi yu has better ability
and well , if u think niche x mon is good feel free to use it and top the ladder to prove me wrong , results speaks louder than theory anyways
I like Hisui typhlosion for the eruption tho
lost phoenix
i think the best way to use hisui typh is WITH chi yu, not instead of it.
fathom token
there's no space left in the team, I can't use both
and I don't think I should replace more
distant stump
I used typhlo for a bit in reg d, the only thing that really worked was specs because your really missing out on the damage with scarf
Even then it’s taking glass cannon to the extreme
1 boo-boo and it sucks
fathom token
yeah, I admit its not worth it
distant stump
But now there’s too much tailwind, speed control and fire resistances
fathom token
even with tailwind it can easily get outspeeded if you don't use em with scarf
fathom token
But now there’s too much tailwind, speed control and fire resistances
true
distant stump
Yeah it’s cool but not very good at all
fathom token
now that I remember, I have a promotional pokemon tcg card of em
okay, this is how the team looks like after these changes:
https://pokepast.es/f02b9e5e1685bc14
I personally prefer chien-pao than chi-yu, and it anyways wasn't worth putting two fire types (chi-yu and heartflame ogerpon)
distant stump
okay, this is how the team looks like after these changes:
https://pokepast.es/f...
It looks good I think
Biggest thing I see is evs
I would recommend taking some evs from the site Leo linked
fathom token
I've done that
distant stump
It’s 40 modest
fathom token
oh wait true
fathom token
lemme change that, I don't know why I did that honestly 😅
distant stump
I think your missing some ko’s with it
Though I don’t use it so I’m not that familiar with its calf’s
Calcs
fathom token
lemme change that, I don't know why I did that honestly 😅
k changed it to 220 speed and 72+ sp.atk
and with landorus, I'll just add em 16 extra EVs on dmg
distant stump
12/236/4/0/4/252 is optimal on pao for urshifu calcs
You definitely should as at least some speed on rilla
You will lose every fake out if not
fathom token
btw, talking about calcs, I've recently discovered pikalytics but I don't know how to use it
distant stump
Like the website or it’s damage calc
Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 100 HP / 116 Atk / 36 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stomping Tantrum
- Tera Blast
- Rock Tomb
- U-turn
This is what I reccomed for lando
fathom token
Like the website or it’s damage calc
its damage calc
distant stump
You should use nerd of now damage calc
fathom token
Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Tera Type: F...
rock tomb? not rock slide?
fathom token
nerd 🤓
distant stump
rock tomb? not rock slide?
Yeah
fathom token
love that name
fathom token
Ik wide guard's a thing, but it may be worth on some ocasions
fathom token
https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/
thanks, I'll check it out
fathom token
ok, I'll use tomb for some games, then I'll decide what to use
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
mighty stone
im like really new to vgc
so i have next to no idea whats going on
im tryna get into it tho
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/37e10eb78528e75d
I would recommend using pre-existing teams from Victory Road to find teams. This is to get a better idea of whats good and some standard reambuilding needs. While I understand the concept, if I were to help fix the team I'd probably replace over half the members.
distant stump
Yeah
mighty stone
fair
aight ill check out the pre existing ones then ill come back to tryna make a team once i know whats actually happening
hazy gull
https://pokepast.es/34608630dd5d80d5 still to be completed but could I have some critique and suggestion for final member
mint scaffold
@hazy gull
hazy gull
yes sorry this place seemed dead so I went to general
mint scaffold
leo to the resueqe
hazy gull
Started as a Oger flame team I thought could work well with azu but urshifu just looked better no matter how I looked tailwind torn for speed, sun boosts oger and the flutter who hits specially and pao further enables physical atackers on my team
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/34608630dd5d80d5 still to be completed but could I have some...
A more offensive Hearthflame with 3 attacks is preferred, you don't have enough support to go for Swords Dance.
Chien-Pao's current best and easiest to pilot set is Focus Sash, with Protect in the last slot. As it's typing is very bad defensively, it is threatened by almost everything and would be a Tera hog otherwise
Flutter Mane would appreciate some form of bulk and Tera Fairy, with Moonblast over Energy Ball/Icy Wind.
You lack protect so Tornadus is vulnerable to fake out, use Tera Ghost
Walking Wake is Illegal, Iron Hands or Rillaboom fit better on this comp, improving your Trick room mu and giving you a defensive backbone
mint scaffold
yes sorry this place seemed dead so I went to general
only post teams in #1051236342740308089 👍
hazy gull
yes sir
winter gulch
yes sorry this place seemed dead so I went to general
this is the least dead VGC rate place you will see
besides maybe the VGC Room on Showdown
also we take some time, we aren't bots that get to things immediately lol
balmy valley
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
winter gulch
that flutter moveset looks and feels criminal
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/7399d6085eec9a8a
Goggles on Cresselia here and drop Follow me on Ogerpon for Spiky Shield. Your team isn't reliant on Trick room and you don't have a set up sweeper to exploit the Fake Out, Intimidate, healing and redirection.
Taunt Flutter does nothing for you yh, Shadow ball is almost always preferred
winter gulch
or even Dazzling
digital raven
Hey, so I was inspired by hearing about hail room teams so I tried something https://pokepast.es/f56b4599190487c7
I like farigiraf as a trick room setter a lot and the tera grass, helps it take on amoongus and tornadus' taunt which is how a lot of people splash on trick room answers
but slowking-galar is probably just a bad idea, I wanted a slow trick room setter and something slow with blizzard and it had both
also a lot of the tera types are kinda bad
wild sinew
Hey, so I was inspired by hearing about hail room teams so I tried something htt...
I'd generally not recommend snowroom
Not a very good archetype
digital raven
yeah, it's been kinda mid with what I've tried so far
and it's pretty trash into fire ogerpon which is being used a lot
means I have to run occa berry Abomasnow instead of light clay or the snow extender rock
digital sierra
https://pokepast.es/e3de63f86dc8709d chien-pao is one of my favorite pokemon so i thought id build a team around it
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/e3de63f86dc8709d chien-pao is one of my favorite pokemon so ...
Would recommend going rain dance Tornadus and replacing Flutter Mane with Scarf Urshifu here
EVs at level 50 start by 4 and then add 8 for every stat, so they need to be divisible by 4 and not by 8 to know you're not wasting EVs, you can take a look at Smogon Strategy Dex for EVs in general though
distant stump
Main problem I see is that you dont have anything taking advantage of the sword of ruin
distant stump
Hands really does not want ruin, it isent going to be going for strong attacks and the defense lowering on it only hurts it
digital sierra
what should i put rain dance over on torn?
distant stump
Prot or taunt
personal preference
Scarf shifu is a good start
and I would consider maybe switching amoonguss
and going for specs dengo
digital sierra
what should i swap amoonguss and hands for?
distant stump
1 second
wild sinew
Keep Hands
NP Dengo is honestly fine
Consider Rillaboom/Wellspring over Amoon
distant stump
what should i swap amoonguss and hands for?
I would try something like this out
Ofc make the switches you want in the team
but I think as a base this is fine
digital sierra
https://pokepast.es/8909a314800cca96 so could something like this work?
distant stump
https://pokepast.es/8909a314800cca96 so could something like this work?
Prolly
You gotta add more special attackers
You really struggle with intimidate
Also hands and rilla kinda have overlapping roles
distant stump
Your choice really
I think flutter is a good starting place
and if you find any glaring weaknesses it can be changed
north tree
https://pokepast.es/8909a314800cca96 so could something like this work?
I think this is pretty strong, intimidate isn't a problem via scarf urshifu and torn pao leads. Remove 8 from def on iron hands and add 4 to speed and 4 to attack. Remove 4 from spdef on rilla and add 4 to def. Otherwise you just need to test the team constantly and see how it fits your playstyle.
abstract shore
https://pokepast.es/600f85d7bb23f338 plz be nice, this is my first ever doubles team and idk what i'm doin
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
distant stump
For a first doubles team
I've seen worse
Its pretty good
But I (and most other people) say this every time, if your starting out I highly reccomend trying out rental teams or watching youtubers
Its much better starting with something thats already good, and learning the meta, how to play, fundamentals etc than having to learn all of that with a probarly not great team
https://victoryroadvgc.com/sv-rental-teams/ You can take a team from here to start with, or take one from one of Cybertrons videos (He also makes great content for beginers in general)
distant stump
https://pokepast.es/600f85d7bb23f338 plz be nice, this is my first ever doubles ...
shoulda replied oops
abstract shore
oops sorry, was being a cringe art nerd
abstract shore
https://victoryroadvgc.com/sv-rental-teams/ You can take a team from here to sta...
for this, are there any teams there in particular that are good for beginners? or are they all of equal level?
distant stump
for this, are there any teams there in particular that are good for beginners? o...
Hmm
I think this https://pokepast.es/f2690a29409d9eab
Is probarly the most beginer friendly
Its HO
which is basically click buttons
https://pokepast.es/d0be8fa012054778 This team was made by a friend which I think is also a good start for learning the meta, but its a bit harder to use
abstract shore
which is basically click buttons
fuck abt and find out?
distant stump
Basically go as fast as you can
and knock out your opponents before they can knock out yours
abstract shore
https://pokepast.es/d0be8fa012054778 This team was made by a friend which I thin...
So do you reccomend i use the 1st one, and then after i've become more familiar I use this one
abstract shore
okay nice! Thanks for the help!
distant stump
np, I hope you enjoy vgc!
untold estuary
Hi hi so I've played a bit of nat dex doubles to learn double battles better then I made my nat dex team for SV TCG! Here's the team it's been working well so far yet then again I'm low in ladder so might be cause of that.
Also a replay of the team in action: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2023regulatione-1968202183
And here's the nat dex team in question
winter gulch
is there a reason the team's attackers go from VGC staples in NDDOU to being unviable threats in the VGC version
primarily Ogerpon and Rillaboom
untold estuary
eh not a fan of rillaboom design wise no offense to rillaboom lovers :c and I wanted to include and eevelution cause come on there adorable lol
Besides even when I play with the nat dex team I rarely use rillaboom yet that's mostly cause I don't understand why have 2 terrain setters
I mostly put leafeon for shits and giggles at first then realized "hold up this kinda works"
wild sinew
I'd recommend using viable pokemon, especially if youre starting out. Helps you get familiar with the format and understand what is good. When you lose, you know its a skill issue but when you lose wth a bad team, youre unsure if the team is a problem, or it's a piloting problem.
winter gulch
I'd recommend using viable pokemon, especially if youre starting out. Helps you ...
b-but I want to use Regieleki D:
(yes that's good advice)
north tree
Why is there a Marsh?
untold estuary
I'd recommend using viable pokemon, especially if youre starting out. Helps you ...
I did try a more meta team yet I couldn't use it well sadly
untold estuary
Why is there a Marsh?
That's the nat dex team as reference
winter gulch
Why is there a Marsh?
NDDOU
wild sinew
I did try a more meta team yet I couldn't use it well sadly
Takes time, you know the team works and you just need to practice with it more.
north tree
Flutter mane over delphox
untold estuary
Flutter mane over delphox
Fluttermane is banned there lol
And I love Delphox so she ain't leaving
Besides we aren't talking about that team where talking about the vgc one
bronze mural
Thoughts on this team?: https://pokepast.es/93a00f943b8e88b4
wild sinew
Thoughts on this team?: https://pokepast.es/93a00f943b8e88b4
Fine 6, here is how you can improve
Iron Head -> Kowtow Cleave on Kingambit, Dread Plate Tera Dark lets you muscle past neutral hits, and with Swords Dance you tear through Resists. Peoria had almost every Kingambit running this if youwant results
I would recommend Heavy Slam Iron Hands, you have reirection and your pokemon aren't that frail. You don't exactly have a consistent way around Flutter Mane
Moonblast is preferred over Thunderbolt/Power Gem as a strong single target stab. With Tera Fairy to boost both moves. This also lets you dodge opposing Flutter Mane shadow ball which can be crucial
make Urshifu Tera Water/Grass and equip a Choice Scarf, Aqua Jet, Ice Spinner, U-turn, Rock Slide and Tera Blast are moves you'd onsider on the set. This is preferable as it threatens Scarf Lando who applies pressure on every member except Kingambit, and also strengthens your Flutter Mane mu
Consider Rain Dance over Protect on Tornadus to weaken fire moves onto Kingambit and Tera Grass Iron Hands, while also boosting Urshifu and Ogerpon's water moves
Lastly, takea look at Smofon Strategy Dex for optimal EV spreads, things like bulkless Flutter Mane and 0 Atk Wellspring are things you can't get away with
sand minnow
https://pokepast.es/aaf023fe6a7a7af9
What do you think
Should I replace one of Arma moves with protect of keep it as it is
Should I remove glastrier
Should I use another hands set
Can I use regidraco over torkoal
Should I have another trick room setter or abuser over orangepourou
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
wild sinew
https://pokepast.es/aaf023fe6a7a7af9
What do you think
Should I replace one of A...
Give Indeedee Safety Goggles for a more playable matchup into Amoonguss, Dazzling Gleam is preferred to ohko sash mons like Chien-Pao
Replace Energy Ball with Armour Canon on Armarouge, you want the single target nuke option, Energy Ball doesn't hit anything relevant
You can give Iron Hands the psychic seed to give you an Assault Vest that also lets you Swords Dance, you could also consider Liligant in this slot as an optipn
Glastrier isn't good, Ursaluna is better into Heatran, brings another spore immunity, and hits much harder, you'd want it under Trick Room.
Orangaru is also pretty niche here, consider Hatterene, Liligant, or Kingambit who all bring something valuable.
sand minnow
Give Indeedee Safety Goggles for a more playable matchup into Amoonguss, Dazzlin...
Thanks a lot
Should I go with what over orangaru should I got with kingambit for offense or another support tr setter mon like cress
wild sinew
Thanks a lot
Should I go with what over orangaru should I got with kingambit for...
Hatt would be what you for if you are comfortable with another setter
Cress is also an option but then Youd drop Swords Dance Iron Hands and run standard Assault Vest
sand minnow
Ok thank you a lot I will try hatterena
untold estuary
okay so I took the advice of using meta teams even tho its not as fun yet whatever- I took a meta team and edited it a bit so far its working well yet I do wanna see if im using it right and if my edits where okay
replay refrence- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2023regulatione-1968373329
edited team- https://pokepast.es/70b7cbc1ce60706d
OG team- https://pokepast.es/038e30862862e284
I removed Chein-Po cause hes way to squishy for my liking and difficult to use sadly :c
(for me at least)
wild sinew
okay so I took the advice of using meta teams even tho its not as fun yet whatev...
would recommend keeping the Booster Energy Iron Bundle
and running a bulkier Choice Specs Flutter Mane
wanton abyss
inb4 ttar teams come THROUGH
digital sierra
https://pokepast.es/1bd4c9864ddc3c40 i was making a cheempao team when i found that gholdengo was carrying a lot of my games, so i turned it into a gholdengo team lol
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
digital sierra
i forgot to change the tera on rilla, thats supposed to be fire
distant stump
Looks pretty good honestly
distant stump
https://pokepast.es/1bd4c9864ddc3c40 i was making a cheempao team when i found t...
I think banded harc is just stricktly better
there isent much sleep going around for spore immunity to matter
and the extra damage is super usefull
you want to be pivoting in and out anyways to reset intim
Minor thing if your going to be running bulky bold tornadus, dont use that ev set
use one designed for it
digital sierra
what nature is better for that set?
wanton abyss
EVs on Hands are unoptimized, you can take 4 out of attack and put it in speed
distant stump
currently your only counter for lando t intimidate cycling your team is urshifu
While i agree its good as a counter it easy to play around
like Lando T + Oger water is a super hard MU
wanton abyss
I think double fake out is strong right now. Paired with Gholdengo, you get to set up a lot of ugly game states
I do think the Kommo-o matchup is really iffy, but everyone’s is right now
distant stump
You dont even have trick room there, its just tw as a speed control
a lot of stuff is gonna outspeed you or outdamage you
distant stump
I think double fake out is strong right now. Paired with Gholdengo, you get to s...
ehh idk man no speed hands with tailwind and no trick room is very iffy
wanton abyss
I think Iron Hands speed wars are silly. Run your thick Hands, it wants the bulk somewhere for sure
distant stump
If your going to run thick hands
then why not add tr
Dengo also really likes trick room there
wanton abyss
It still outruns a lot of mons hitting 138 and 140! Although you have a point, this Hands could probably use some speed EVs. Any speed investment would be hefty, and reduce bulk or damage specifically
digital sierra
maybe i could swap rilla for sinistcha then?
wanton abyss
Honestly? I think Hands is what you drop here
distant stump
Yeah
Rilla + Harc + Urshifu is already super strong
as a core
Though I think band is a bit better on harc
wanton abyss
I love hands to pieces; this is a TW Ghol team and Hands doesn’t add the benefit that it normally does for teams
distant stump
you already have intimidate so willo is kinda pointless
distant stump
I love hands to pieces; this is a TW Ghol team and Hands doesn’t add the benefit...
Switch it for farig
Maybe idk
wanton abyss
Honestly you could slap a Kommo-o or Flutter over that Hands and call it a day
Or even your own Lando-T
Or an Ogerpon forme if you wanna feel spicy
distant stump
I think Flutter Lando T and Farig are all good options
Basically preference
Im a fan of farig on that slot but its kinda hard to use and I think lando T also works
digital sierra
imma go with farig since urshifu is taking up the scarf slot
distant stump
Yeah
wanton abyss
I, personally, do not like Farig here, I also want you to give it a shot
distant stump
Farig is good with urshifu + harc
Super good at blocking problem fake outs and grassys going into harc or urshifu, and can help with the armadd match up
wild sinew
Very versatile last slot
digital sierra
idk why but when it comes to any format the last slot is always so hard to pick
wild sinew
Wellspring, Farigiraf, Lando all fit pre well
Tho you'd swap out Rillaboom if you go Wellspring to not stack too many types
distant stump
I think lando or farig are good options
digital sierra
i still think imma go with farigiraf
cheempao and rilla are all real problems to deal with, and ive dealt with armadd twice, the first game i lost miserably, and the second time it was pretty close
wanton abyss
I think double grass w/ Waterpon is fine tbh
Yeah psyspam looks super annoying for your team to deal with
distant stump
cheempao and rilla are all real problems to deal with, and ive dealt with armadd...
My team is like kinda similar and the farig is really nice in blocking the prio from chiennite and grassy rilla/ogerpon
Also yeah armadd is nice
wanton abyss
if you’re using h-arc paonite should be solvable! Farig is great utility rn
digital sierra
should i drop some of the speed on harc?
wanton abyss
Firepon grassy goes through armor tail but that’s irrelevant
Why do you want to drop speed
wanton abyss
bulky band is also relevant
distant stump
I use bulky band
wanton abyss
I think the willowisp set is fine honestly
distant stump
but I think av is fine
wanton abyss
Willo is very strong in the current metagame
distant stump
Your already pivoting in and out of intim
digital sierra
imma go with vest on the basis that i hate choice items
distant stump
With its ability
distant stump
imma go with vest on the basis that i hate choice items
Sure
distant stump
Its better to be switching in and out of pivots like rillaboom to reset the fake out and harc to reset the intimidate
or farig to set armour tail
digital sierra
should i maybe put some more spdef on harc?
distant stump
its nice but I think some tiems have more value
wanton abyss
Only change EVs if you know exactly what the change does
distant stump
should i maybe put some more spdef on harc?
172/116/116/0/76/28
Thats what I used for av
though Idk if its still good now
digital sierra
what evs should i put into farig?
distant stump
what evs should i put into farig?
I use 196/0-/236/4+/28/44 with iapapa
wanton abyss
Because that is somehting a lot of people will do in order to remove your Farigiraf from the field turn 1
distant stump
I reccomend at least adding modest
wanton abyss
I think sitrus is 1000 better on the kinds of hits farigiraf eats. is something else taking up sitrus
digital sierra
Nope
distant stump
Nah
Sitrus is better on something like rilla
Where your under more fire
Farig doesent have that many weakness so its mostly neuteral damage, and with enough bulk
your pre much always procing the berry
digital sierra
okay, thanks
fathom token
team centered on electric terrain https://pokepast.es/1acf17bd0361b784
I've invested a lot of time on it and I'm really confident about it!
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
north tree
team centered on electric terrain https://pokepast.es/1acf17bd0361b784
I've inve...
Let me take this step by step:
Firstly, sash tera electric regieleki isn't a reliable way to set up electric terrain. You either want tera ghost, covert cloak or both. Consider thundurus incarnate (recommended) or pincurchin as well instead of regieleki if you want to set electric terrain.
Second, electric terrain is not that good of an archtype. The pokemon that abuse it are common so you will run into opponents who can also take advantage of it often, the value isn't worth the effort half the time and the setters are mostly bad (thundurus does provide some other support however like thunder wave and taunt).
Third, protect on iron bundle with focus sash, you don't need tera blast steel. Iron hands should also run an assault vest with volt switch over swords dance, the attack boost from electric terrain allows for kos into flutter mane with wild charge and more healing with drain punch.
Fourth, have protect on iron moth with a life orb set, it allows you to sweep easier, and tera grass over tera ground, that gives you tons of defensive value. The set would now be heat wave, energy ball, protect and acid spray. Now replace heatran with either spa booster energy or choice specs flutter mane, depending on your comfort, and you have a solid offensive core of iron moth, flutter mane and iron bundle.
Lastly, have follow me over swords dance on ogerpon, too much offense and not enough to support the offense and perhaps tidy up the spreads.
Sent a paste of all the changes I would make
wild sinew
That's pretty much your best bet, but as Insertable said, electric terrain is an unviable gimmick currently
fathom token
Let me take this step by step:
Firstly, sash tera electric regieleki isn't a rel...
-I don't know why I didn't think about thundurus, makes a lot more sense. I do know that future paradox mons are all over the place, but that's why I had Heatran and tera blast ground Iron Moth to get rid of them because they are mostly steel and electric types.
-You're probably right with Iron Bundle, it wasn't working as I wanted with the past set. I mainly put em for
Landorus-T matchups, but without Protect it always got screwed 
-I understand the change of heatran, but without em I need a ground type attacker, and tera blast ground Iron Moth was the best bet there...
-I've never played Wellspring-Ogerpon with follow me, but it sounds fun so I'll try it out!
Thanks for the tips!
fathom token
That's pretty much your best bet, but as Insertable said, electric terrain is an...
I sometimes think that my brain gets so focused on doing something original that I always end up using gimmicks instead of just a normal VGC team... I really want to try and just make a normal team that satisfies my brain, but it ends up being too overwhelming for myself 
wild sinew
I sometimes think that my brain gets so focused on doing something original that...
I think the main thing you should be doing is using standard things when you're staring out, after some time, you'll understand what is good and what is bad, helping you build in the future
distant stump
I think the main thing you should be doing is using standard things when you're ...
^
Teambuilding is a super hard hard skill, it takes easily thousands of games to get good
I woulden't start by trying out gimmicks and off meta stuff, sorry if this is mean but its probarly not going to be any good
Try out meta or strats that are known to be good
Then as you get better start adventuring into strats or mons you think are underappreciated
fathom token
I think the main thing you should be doing is using standard things when you're ...
That's a very wise quote, thank you for the help
fathom token
I woulden't start by trying out gimmicks and off meta stuff, sorry if this is me...
It isn't mean at all, I completely understand it ^^
mossy arrow
https://pokepast.es/ec73a951c2578c0a I just thought up something but need help refining. any advice would be appreciated
drifting onyxBOT
New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
mossy arrow
i want to add skeledirge in it no matter what
digital sierra
https://pokepast.es/aeff04800e788c27 this gholdengo team has been doing pretty well on ladder, but im wondering if there is anything i could do to polish it further