#VGC Rates

1 messages · Page 11 of 1

sand minnow
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even then i have no grass on brute so hes not covering much

wooden shard
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yea

sand minnow
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i almost did solar beam torkoal

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which wouldve been funny

wooden shard
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lmao

sand minnow
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tera grass solar beam sun torkoal

wooden shard
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unironically they're are some sets who use tera grass sb

sand minnow
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its def usable

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which i might switch it up later depending on how im feeling with only Flutter having grass

wooden shard
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hmm overall the team is good with some changes it defo would be better

sand minnow
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yea dozo's/nites moves are getting changed

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i dont wanna ev train Cry

wooden shard
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rip

sand minnow
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plus im the type that prefers my comp pokemon shiny so i have to bottle cap the mfs

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so high maintenance fr

shy flare
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

winter gulch
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Looks solid, I woud change the Tera types on Amoonguss, Ting Lu, and Pelliper (and probably Bundle) to fit their better defensive niches
Also Damp Rock probably isn't the best item on Pelliper since the item could be used better elsewhere, I would recommend Sitrus and have a bulkier EV spread to allow it to stick around and set stuff up again multiple times

bold creek
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isnt focus sash better than damp rock?

winter gulch
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yeah

bold creek
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Any improvements guys???

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Also do yall think either maushold gholdengo for amoonguss corviknight or no?

prime thunder
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https://pokepast.es/1baa4dd1b0f0a259 Hey, I got this team together, and have about... 4 Days to get it. Just want to make sure it's good and can counter team strats. Let me sum it up:
Amoonguss(Redirection, Donbozo Counter)
Ting Lu(Pairs well with amoonguss, tanks everything, does big damage either with ruination, Fissure, Or high Horsepower. Serves as a way to deal big damage to Donbozo with Lum berry, and as a way to break through Tera steel Donbozo)
Nifalap(Unga Bunga Punch, Kills All Un-godly things)
Flutter Mane (Big damage, Sash to not get stomped by the prior mon (Nifalap) and pairs really well with Chi-yu,Amoongus, and Nifalap)
Chi-yu (Nuke, Pairs with FMane, Handles Chien pao (Only if Amoonguss is present) and Wipes out any hopes of Donbozo if it gets a burn)
Chien pao(Pairs with literally any of the teammates, Gets rid of Fmane, Ting-Lu, Wo-Chien, etc.)

cursive mason
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Chien pao wants sash way more than flutter does, you can go bulky booster or bulky specs flutter on this team

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Also for palafin replace iron head with wave crash, iron head doesn’t really hit anything

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for dozo mu haze on pala over drain punch works fine and then that lets you run pollen puff over clear smog on amoong, if you want more insurance go Tera grass ting

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I’d also recommend heavy slam over throat chop on ting

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And also prob ice spinner over ice shard and sucker punch over throat chop on pao

winter gulch
# bold creek https://pokepast.es/ffd7d80e369f1b6c

Vivillion and Amoonguss do like the same thing, I would remove one do round out your team better
ngl I'm very confused as to what you're trying to do with your team
Imprison is so gimmicky on Flutter, Protect is so much more consistent (team screams Bo1)
Also your team doesn't do great against Arcanine

prime thunder
cursive mason
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Sash on pao, and ice spinner over ice shard

prime thunder
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Oh, k

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did that

cursive mason
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Spreads could use some work, more bulk on Pala, your numbers are weird on flutter I think you’re missing some evs

prime thunder
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Evs are so it can still be fast while having bulk

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How much bulk on pala?

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Like full 252 or a mixed spread

cursive mason
prime thunder
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There's 0 remaining

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there's 510 evs in total invested rn in fmane

cursive mason
prime thunder
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alright

cursive mason
prime thunder
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I'll go with 112

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I am?

cursive mason
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130 is not an ev number

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124 and then 132

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So effectively 124 and 130 are the same

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Throw 4 evs in def

prime thunder
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they are in spdef i think

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oh

cursive mason
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Yeah sorry misread

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For Teras prob run ghost on Chien pao, and then for chi-yu prob run fire

prime thunder
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Ah, k

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did that

cursive mason
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Oh on flutter prob run moonblast over mfire you already have chi-yu for fire moves

prime thunder
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Right

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roight

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NEthing else?

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get it

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N E thing

cursive mason
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Can’t really see anything that jumps out to me

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You might wanna play around with the team a bit tho just to be sure before committing to getting it ingame

prime thunder
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k

balmy valley
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Ting-Lu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature

  • Fissure
  • Heavy Slam
  • Stomping Tantrum
  • Ruination
    If you're going Brave, may as well also go 0 Spe IVs
    If you just want added atk go Adamant
    also I cannot respect Fissure players
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you might want to add a bit of bulk to chi-yu to live 1 Pala hit as well

hidden path
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i sometimes use tera flying tera blast

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it works

winter gulch
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what grass types are there again

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Amoonguss?

hidden path
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ye

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thats the main threat anyways

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i got to 1500s with another team, but then went on a losing streak all the way until the 1300s, im tryna go for sun teams cuz yes
the old team mainly focused around palafin and dozo with shed tail. basically choice scarf cyclizar sets shed tail, then the pala switches to tatsugiri, and the shed tail goes to dozo. well, it didnt work cuz of iron bundle. so, heres my new team: https://pokepast.es/377152b616ae094c

drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

hidden path
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meh i wanna make an off meta team

hidden path
wooden shard
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and also add the extra 4 evs on appletun

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that triggers me

wooden shard
hidden path
hidden path
winter gulch
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Why not use Recover on Appletun? Also Iron Defense BP is an idea
Spiritomb does not live Heat Wave + Moonblast double up which is a problem

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I'm not going to comment much on the team bc its just so weird

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I don't understand the EV spreads or movesets really that much

bold creek
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

bold creek
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Wanted to build a Garchomp core team which allowed it to survive and get off big damage But I am wondering which is better

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Although the team has 3 fairy weaknesses flutter mane hasnt been an issue because of tailwind and tera poison garchomp

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I usually tera poisom garchomp Which I found at portland regionals and decided to try it

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Also Braviary is really consistent with yache berry

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As 116 SpD Allows it to survive bundle freeze dry and moonblast

winter gulch
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I'm really not sure what you have Imprison for, its really not worth the moveslot and only works in CTS effectively
first team is really weak to Arc, particularly Goggles Arc. Second team is Bundle food
Also if you really want Garchomp to set up more easily you'd probably want Arc and possible Ting Lu to support it better

bold creek
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from 252 SpA flutter

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I try arcanine and ting lu both didnt really fit and too much bundle weakness

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You think I should change imprison?

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Also I did think Of arcanine but when testing it hasnt really been an issue

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because defiant

winter gulch
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yeah imo Flutter's main threat isn't opposing Flutter, and you losing a big offensive outlet really isn't worth it

bold creek
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What do you think?

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Booster energy SpA

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I have seen that running around

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Or specs?

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Also you think I should change any pokemon?

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I will change sitris berry garchomp lol

winter gulch
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have you consider Amulet Chomp

bold creek
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Well yes

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But really I can consistently get SD with tera poison and intimidate doesnt concern me because of bravirary

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You think I should try it?

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Also do you think irom hands and chien pao r good here?

winter gulch
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I think its ok, I would change the Hands Tera type to fire though
I just took a fresh look on the team, your first team also doesn't do the best against Tusk and Flutter which is a bruh moment

winter gulch
bold creek
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Well considering It does has base 123 attack it has been so far

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Tbf I think booster energy speed flutter mane does well into tusk flutter?

winter gulch
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Scarf Tusk has been growing in usage, + when you only have two single target targets you suddenly lose to a redirect

bold creek
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How do you think I should counter this on my team?

winter gulch
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I'm not sure if there's one singular answer that can just fix your team? imo there are a couple too many issues with it, especially since you don't even have good EQ synergy on your mons (and I assume your team revolves around Chomp)

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I'll take a look at the second team though, looks better than the first imo

bold creek
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k

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tbf Any team is bound to have weaknesses

winter gulch
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I would probably go Sash Chi-Yu and Specs Flutter, you could consider Lorb (goggles is good)
Amulet Chomp is solid here

bold creek
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kk

winter gulch
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its actually not too horrible the more I look at it, I kinda hyperfixated on the first one lol

bold creek
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anything else?

winter gulch
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let's try that one out first

bold creek
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Oh thanks lol

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So sash chi yu?

winter gulch
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yes

bold creek
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Specs flutter

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and amulet chomps

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Anything to change rotom?

winter gulch
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Looks solid

bold creek
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kk

winter gulch
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I really want to add Bundle here but I'll keep your EQ core thingy

bold creek
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I will make the changes and test it out later

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Thanks

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For the help

winter gulch
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yeah the best way to build is to test and revise imo

bold creek
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@winter gulch Tried the team out

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It felt fairly inconsistent Tbf so gonna scrap the idea and try smg else

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Idk what to build around though my mind goes blank

winter gulch
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check VGCPastes and some top cuts for some inspiration

bold creek
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kk

bold creek
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@winter gulch This may be an odd request

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Could you build a team in your style?

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I would really want to see how you teambuild and your process of doing it considering you r the best player here

winter gulch
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might take a bit of time since I have a couple things on my plate but I'll see what I can do

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I'm currently building around Bronzong, I'll try to show my process when I find something I like

bold creek
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YES thanks alot I think everyone can learn from you

hidden path
hidden path
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imma make a terrible team and make it work

bold creek
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

bold creek
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ye

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felt like using bulk uo palifin

bold creek
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changed the team abit

normal stream
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looks ok on paper

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hands and mausape mu looks v
annoying

normal stream
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lack of ground resists is another concern

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chienpao dnite squads also demolish u rn

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imho if u replace pala w gyara and focus on volc doing volc things itll look better

obsidian linden
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

obsidian linden
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any room for improvement?

bold creek
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lol

bold creek
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

bold creek
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bored

covert hill
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hi everyone

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can someone rate this team?

urban steppe
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Wouldn't you wanna 0 IV your Torkoal's speed aswell?

urban steppe
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I'm not a master or anything, but I can't help but watch your poor soul go unheard

covert hill
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Well thank you

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I don't know why nobody rates my team's but doesn't matter

bold creek
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

bold creek
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Anti meta trickroom

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cause bored

plain kestrel
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Tsareena has taunt. The team is hella weak to garg but thats about it

bold creek
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I dont think its thag weak to garganacl

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I personally think the first is best but change skeledirge to bulk up ceruledge

floral herald
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

bold creek
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interesting team lol

plain kestrel
bold creek
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You dont always need redirection

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anyway you have fake out support

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Im bored

plain kestrel
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Fair

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Me too 😂

bold creek
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You wanna teambuild a pokemon together?

cedar summit
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Epig team

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Give me thoughts about it

bold creek
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buddy

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this is a vgc area

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not a tcg

plain kestrel
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@bold creek i msg you

bold creek
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Dont mind ting lu set hasnt been finished yet

drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

novel wraith
# covert hill https://pokepast.es/fa25b10395bf4a18

why are u invested in hp and spd on ihands? prioritise being max spd, then atk imo. also run 61real speed on it, that way you underspeed 31iv ting lu in tr while outspeeding uninvested base 85s after an icy wind like wo chien (same with kingambit), then make hatterene and torkoal minimum speed and run a bulkier flutter mane and a slightly bulkier iron bundle with these spreads```Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Def / 44 SpA / 4 SpD / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Dazzling Gleam
  • Moonblast
  • Shadow Ball
  • Thunderbolt

Iron Bundle @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 44 HP / 12 Def / 196 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Freeze-Dry
  • Icy Wind
  • Hydro Pump
  • Protect```
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the lower speed on flutter means you can abuse tr with it more, especially vs teams w/ pultpao or flutterfish while still outspeeding garchomp

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that being said i also think you should have indeedee-f over hatterene as a tr setter since you already have a lot of strong attackers

bold creek
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did some changing with the ttar trickroom team

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its busted

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hit 1400 with it

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

floral herald
bold creek
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good

balmy valley
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Clawitzer is viable
no clawitzer in sight

plain kestrel
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

plain kestrel
balmy valley
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that's uh

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why?

hidden path
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

plain kestrel
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Why? Cuz it sheds

novel wraith
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u might as well drop it and go something else

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also ting lu should always be max spd, take from hp instead in future for defense

winter gulch
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I don't agree with the max SpD Ting Lu, depends on what you need it to live and the moves you're running imo

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HP directly helps both stats, but SpD only boosts one

balmy valley
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tbh the only reason I see why Chien-Pao would be here is bc of snow
something like Arcanine would be better

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dont see why brute bonnet is here at all

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also the tera for ting-lu and grimm are wrong

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Abomasnow should either be sash or light clay

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and tera blast fighting bundle = ???

hidden path
woven rose
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Abomasnow should definitely have a more defensive item such as sash or light clay like mentioned above but why are you running Grimmsnarl and Abomasnow. Grimm is irrelevant here due to abomasnow setting up both light screen and reflect instead of doing them separately

tidal solstice
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are sand teams usable in vgc

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if so what archtype should i pair with it

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i don't want to rely on tyranitar all the time

winter gulch
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Sand could be ok, but I wouldn't recommend using it

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Ttar is 100% what you would need to be relying on, but more people are using Ttar by itself

tidal solstice
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i've been using sand in vgc for a while paired with ting-lu for a semi-defensive trope with houndstone and k9 for extra control over the opponents, it's been going okay so far, not much issues but i'm afraid there are some things that are easily counterable

spark venture
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Lycanrock sand has been pretty popular in Japan this format, and also reasonably present in NA meta too, 7 lycan-tar teams in top128 for both Portland and Hartford each

Screenshot_20230525-174704_Firefox.jpg Screenshot_20230525-174756_Firefox.jpg
bold creek
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

bold creek
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Lik bit bored

weary parcel
normal stream
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there are also multiple sand teams at 1.8k on ladder

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(aka me and bwahacough)

hidden path
hidden path
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

shrewd horizon
hidden path
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av avalugg is too good

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dang

hidden path
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gonna try stall in vgc

bold creek
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Stop

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No

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No stall

balmy valley
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it was a thing (albeit briefly) at the start of reg c

hidden path
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its working for some reason

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why is it working

north rain
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

north rain
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should i change aura sphere for focus blast ?

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because so I give 1 it kill in chi-yu

spark venture
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Though that is the case, that aura sphere fall shorts of the 1-hit, focus blast can be extremely risky with the low accuracy. Many chi-yu carry focus sash too, so often you'd have to look for chip damage to break the sash that would put it in range of aura sphere anyway
Generally speaking, I think most players prefer the more accurate and reliable options where possible, as it makes planning your turn, and the following ones, a lot easier when you know what's going to happen with more certainty. Which I think in TR is important especially since you want to be able utilise those 4 turns as effectively as you can

north rain
normal stream
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its better to ohko 70% of the time

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than miss it 100% of the time

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and in this case its an extremely important panic button

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so unless youre a very good player i do think focus blast is worth the risk

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although that said it is very inconsistent

winter gulch
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Also Chi Yu runs Sash a lot

bold creek
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

bold creek
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WO chien🔛🔝

undone fossil
drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

hidden path
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WHY IS STALL WORKING

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im at 1300 with this team rn

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wth

drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

hidden path
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the strat is to curse and use infestation so theyre trapped

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then

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since disguise is broken, i can normally use 2 curses before dying

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then its just toxic, leech seed, infestation, protect

cursive mason
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Feel like goth would be nice here to have an alternate perish trap mode

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Or Glimm for tspikes, and there are prob better methods of chip than curse, like garganacl

cursive mason
bold creek
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iron valiant frfr

bold creek
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Someone got salty because I used haze chien pao

hidden path
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but with stall...

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gonna try to get this to the 1500s

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oh yeah

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i def need garg

cursive mason
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It’s not like super good but it’s definitely something you can have success with

winter gulch
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I think Animus brought Stall to the last regs and got t8

cursive mason
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Not surprised

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Stall is def something that can d2 or cut

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It’s just not like a very prominent archetype

wide gyro
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hey i need sme one to tell me what to change

drifting onyxBOT
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New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

woven rose
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your amoonguss needs to have more status. Rage powder and protect instead of giga and sludge. Amoonguss is there for bulk

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spirit break instead of brick break is probably better on grimm

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AV on dragonite would be probably better than boots because it flies over spikes and toxic spikes

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Sneasler shouldn't have toxic spikes. Waste of turns really in vgc and would prbably be better for protect because its so frail

wide gyro
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Ok Ty man

woven rose
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plus I think unburden is good, but maybe switch out the item for something else, though white herb isn't bad

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could go poison touch with clear amulet on sneasler

wide gyro
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Yeah I could

woven rose
honest burrow
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

bold creek
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lol wish flutter is hilarious @woven rose

honest burrow
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Clickster isn’t the one who posted that team

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@bold creek

bold creek
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oh

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U do

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still a funny team lol

honest burrow
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It’s a stall team

novel wraith
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no hazards?

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i think u really need hazards to make stall work

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u could possibly on garg but this team wants a lot of support anyway since you have 0 anti-setup

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dozo looks like a technical nightmare

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and sun just breaks, no?

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id add a ting lu somewhere + dozo and then go from there, maybe drop maus + flutter for the time being and experiment from there

woven rose
# novel wraith i think u really need hazards to make stall work

I actually completely disagree. I feel like in vgc, or doubles in general, using a turn purely to set up hazards can be a waste. The only reason that toxic debris, and soon ceaseless edge + stone axe, are going to see play is because they can also do damage (hazards are just a plus), but hazards on their own I would say really aren't great on their own

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Hazards see a lot of use in singles because in singles you pivot a lot more and have a lot more options to pivot to than in doubles

novel wraith
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no im saying it here bc u can afford it

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im presuming a large percentage of your wins are going to be timer wins bc of the constant yawns n stuff pushing switches

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or leech seeds from wo chien

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in the few scenarios where it actually sticks around before the endgame

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intim does also help but the offense meta doesnt help any further

woven rose
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gothitelle gets heal pulse too so also support

novel wraith
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you could go glimmora too if u wanted bc mspin + tdebris adds up but again the offense meta

novel wraith
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especially sun, bc rn it feels like torkoal sun just autowins

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id also argue that goth should be heal pulse tr

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and im actually currently unsure if u want fake out

woven rose
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I would probably say no, just so you can have some more support

novel wraith
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i havent really played around with or seen goth stall tho so i wont suggest any edits for its use

woven rose
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heal pulse, trick room, protect, psychic i would probably say

novel wraith
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thats what i was gonna say too

woven rose
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Also since wish flutter mane will possible pivot a little bit to share wish healing, I would argue a more defensive item on flutter

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I've seen leftovers on defensive sets but that is already garganacl

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problem with booster is you lose it if you pivot at all

novel wraith
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id instead skip out on it personally

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you already have 3 mons that can heal others

woven rose
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true

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substitute flutter is probably better on a defensive set but still you don't have leftovers

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

topaz edge
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

woven rose
fair marlin
cursive mason
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It will eventually

topaz edge
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Oh whoops. Back to the drawing board

topaz edge
winter gulch
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Not a fan of dual weather in this format, the Pelipper seems shoehorned in just so you have 100% accuracy on Torn which imo isn't worth it, especially since it clashes with your Sun core. Also you don't have TR to properly support your offensive Torky and Ursaluna, which makes navigation a bit difficult. + your Lilligant moveset is kinda weird, Trailblaze isn't great and you have Sun to boost your speed, no need for scarf

topaz edge
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Hmm I see. So pivoting towards a more Sun/TR focused team would be better then? I had a lot of success with dual weather back in SWSH so thought SV could be the same

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

winter gulch
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Zard is lowkey garbage this format, don't forget about Protosynthesis for sun users

#

you 100% need protect on Ursaluna and Lilligant

topaz edge
#

Oh I completely forgot that ability activated off sun too

winter gulch
#

btw Lava Plume hits everyone, just use flamethrower or Eruption

#

also Tera Fairy on Indeedee so you don't get roasted by Chi-Yu Dark Pulse and Urshifu Wicked Blow

topaz edge
#

Hmm ok. Ill replace Zard with Bonnet and i think keep all my mons tera types as their own except indeedee?

winter gulch
#

I was moreso suggesting Flutter bc that gives you type diversity plus a really strong special attacker

topaz edge
#

Fair point. im sure life orb flutter does well on a sun team

winter gulch
#

Tbolt Dazzling Shadow Ball Moonblast with Specs Flutter is quite solid

topaz edge
#

So why the two fairy moves? Is it cause Dazzling is a spread move and moonblast is single? Would think mystical fire would be a possible choice due to sun bonus

woven rose
#

in case of wide guard

winter gulch
#

Dazzling hitting both is just very Strong, Moonblast when you need big damage

#

Mystical Fire is an option but most of the time a STAB Moonblast does about the same

#

Moonblast Specs in Sun is picking up or heavily chipping most neutral targets anyways so I don't think Mystical Fire is worth it since you lock yourself into a move that generally only hits one mon

#

75x2 is just barely more than 95*1,5 (15 BP difference, and when you Tera Fairy your Fairy moves just do more)

covert hill
#

hi everyone

#

what do yall think of liligant hisui?

#

I was thinking in using one on a sun team

#

I rlly like her im just not sure about her movepool

#

has anyone tried liligant hisui?

obsidian linden
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

obsidian linden
#

rate my team, give options for improvement

tidal solstice
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

winter gulch
# obsidian linden rate my team, give options for improvement

Protect > Substitute on Palafin, no Psychic Terrain on Cress (recovery move), Ally Switch is hot garbage, and I would run Psychic for STAB over Dazzling Gleam
I would go Sitrus or Wiki on Amoonguss since the immediately recovery is worth more + you still heal even when tera'd
Overall I'm very confused about the direction bc you have a TR and TW core but most of your mons have pretty mid speed tiers so I'm really confused + I don't really see the synergy between the mons

obsidian linden
winter gulch
# tidal solstice https://pokepast.es/33139d76716780e0 Pretty simple trope, spreads para around, p...

Flutter is not the best way to spread Para, especially with that EV spread I don't think its really loving anything to stick around long enough.
Rock Slide isn't a great move on Band Ursh, would probably go Poison Jab (although idt Band is the best rn). Also your team has a grand total 0 Fairy resists included Tera types which is definitely really bad considering the prevalence of Flutter in this format

winter gulch
obsidian linden
#

honestly what i was thinking was have cresselia ursa and amoongus work in tr and if i cant get tr up for some reason or sth i have palafin and stuff that was just the main idea

#

thinking maybe switching out ursaluna for lando T? to have some chalk team variation maybe if yk what i mean

#

not really experienced in competitive sv i really the first game im trying it out so ill take any advice i can get

winter gulch
#

I like the idea, although the mons that work outside of TR aren't exactly the best without better support or speed control

#

I think if you're starting out its easier to use some sample teams, although that is a bit difficult since there aren't many for S4 right now

#

I would go for some faster pokemon like Flutter Mane so you naturally have the speed you want outside of TR
Maybe Bundle or Urshifu could work over Palafin, that way you don't need to switch around to be at full power

obsidian linden
#

actually have both flutter and bundle so that might work

#

but what would you recommend should i ditch the tr aspect and go with lando for intimidate or keep tr with ursaluna?

winter gulch
#

I like TR personally but its up to you and what you like playing imo

#

TR Ursaluna is very strong this format

obsidian linden
#

okay thanks for the help nonetheless

trim fiber
#

Pls help me

heady kiln
#

the surf pult gimmick is not worth it

#

if you want a "wincon" mon you could try dd zygarde or kyurem-b

trim fiber
#

I have a new one

#

Yeah I realised how bad it was

heady kiln
#

or celesteela or cosmic power metagross

trim fiber
#

New one

#

Oops

#

Forgot to get grassy glide

heady kiln
#

this looks worse

trim fiber
#

Oof

heady kiln
#

incineroar is a good pokemon btw

trim fiber
#

So what changes do you recommend other than the ones youve already made

heady kiln
#

try using one of these incin rilla teams

#

I recommend not using heattom or scrafty ever

#

corvi isn't good either

#

most cases celesteela will be better

#

but yeah those teams use the strong bulky core of incin rilla but then actually do something with it

#

for the first team, it stacks hazards to force switches

#

for the second it has setup wincons

trim fiber
#

Set up wincons seems risky

#

Hazard abuse is great

heady kiln
#

they're not as risky as you think

#

just play them correctly

#

ss is a very flowcharty format

trim fiber
#

I’m gonna change the teams up a little

#

Feels kinda cheesy to just rip that team outta there

shy flare
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

trim fiber
#

@heady kiln

#

What if i make you a tier list of all the pokemon i like and you can pick the best candidates for the best team ever

#

I feel almost cheated stealing other teams and not coming up with my own

winter gulch
#

viability rankings are a thing

#

there's one made by experienced DOU players for Gen 8 on Smogon already

heady kiln
#

this one

#

it even has sample sets and explanations when you click on mons

heady kiln
lost phoenix
#

This has been doing fine for me but wanted some more thoughts

#

@winter gulch @cursive mason :>

woven rose
lost phoenix
#

Uhm

#

No?

#

Surging strikes literally ignores stat drops

winter gulch
winter gulch
woven rose
#

everything else tho

#

it gets no other attack that'll ignore stat changes

winter gulch
#

that's the most clickable move though

#

there are much better uses of that item slot than to prevent damage mitigation on a single move

#

that is not being clicked that much (relative to the crit move)

woven rose
#

clear amulet is not a complete answer as attack drops on not going to wall urshifu but it slows it down. I am partial to chien-pao + urshifu because you just defense drop and cannot be stopped by protect

shrewd horizon
shrewd horizon
lost phoenix
#

As in

shrewd horizon
#

248

#

it does the same as 244 at level 50

lost phoenix
#

Oh yea thats mb

#

It didnt scroll in computer

#

Corrected it

shrewd horizon
#

but also that thundy set is not how thundy is run

lost phoenix
#

It just got stuck on 248 in my builder

shrewd horizon
#

its kind of mediocre offensively

#

and wants to use prankster taunt, twave, eerie impulse egc

lost phoenix
#

That was the main mon i was experimenting with

#

I could make it zapdos if thats like suboptimal

shrewd horizon
#

id go hands anyway on ursaluna + cress

lost phoenix
#

Sd?

shrewd horizon
#

and if you want to get into team synergy more amoong is a much better slot than grimmsnarl here, makes TR setup much more consistent while also just being a better pokemon individually tbh

shrewd horizon
#

the hands + goggles cress + ursaluna + amoonguss is by far the most optimal version of tr ive seen so far

lost phoenix
#

Grimm has been really nice for ursa actually

#

The goal of the team wasnt tr

shrewd horizon
#

neither does amoonguss or hands need it though

#

but they make your tr mode a lot stronger

lost phoenix
#

I was trying just to do offensive mons under screens + cress

shrewd horizon
#

its very passive

#

you also cant lunar blessing ursaluna out of tr

lost phoenix
#

Yes i can

#

I specifically made it faster than my cress

shrewd horizon
#

ig

#

i just ran something like it early format and it gets shut down very easily by someone that knows what they're doing with a balance comp

#

Just looking at it im very concerned about like thundy + ursh into your team

lost phoenix
#

I can do rillaboom on the thund slot

shrewd horizon
#

might help a bit

#

you do need to get like the uturn calls correct on teragrass shifu very quickly problaby

#

because surging can just run through grimm ursaluna

#

not having to worry about protect and always critting makes shifu super broken vs more passive teams

lost phoenix
#

Urshifu is just really broken tbh

#

You need to run extra ho to not worry about it

shrewd horizon
#

yes its very overwhelming

lost phoenix
#

Prob both urshifus are best mons in the format

shrewd horizon
#

id run something like knock on rilla just so you can touch heatran

lost phoenix
#

I havent had a team without a shifu

shrewd horizon
lost phoenix
#

If i really wanna

shrewd horizon
#

urshifu-rapid is the most annoying mon in the format but prob not even the best

#

and urshifu single is way worse imo

#

like its good but just a way worse altarnative

lost phoenix
#

Single is more broken but way less splashable

#

So you end off using it less

shrewd horizon
#

splashable is a huge factor in how good a mon is though

lost phoenix
#

Yeah but i think its brokenness can warrant it a place up high

#

Anyways we should move this to comp gen

normal stream
#

hot take dark shifu gonna be better in 2 weeks

winter gulch
#

I agree with this

lost phoenix
#

I can see it

celest otter
#

I have had moderate success with this team on Showdown ladder. Slight weakness to Ursaluna tho. Any recomended changes? https://pokepast.es/673e988f4df0f482

(I mostly just built the team around Regieleki+Chi-Yu with a side of Spectrier. The rest I am open to changing tho, including moves and teras on the 3 listed above)

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

mint pilot
#

I haven't played pokemon in a hot minute, I decided to revisit it and made a team
https://pokepast.es/7207205b98bd2137
The team focuses around raising the goodras atk and the rest are just supports
Should I add/change anything?

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

mint pilot
cursive mason
#

Also ngl amoong and ting feel kind out of place here, especially ting

#

Feel like you should just commit to HO and just run torn+shifu in the last slots

celest otter
#

Thanks. I will try that out.

celest otter
cursive mason
#

Prob lean more offensive but still with some bulk

celest otter
#

mk

#

maybe bulky specs spread, but run orb over specs?

#

or booster energy

pseudo current
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

sterile flame
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

sterile flame
#

I need help fleshing out some last Pokémon for this team

#

Maybe remove talon/eleki cuz I have two speed control mons rn

#

Throw in a solid core like mausape maybe

#

Idk

#

Updated version

trim fiber
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

trim fiber
#

For glim

winter gulch
# pseudo current can I get critique on these teams? https://pokepast.es/0bf649d96b4f8441 https://...

your team gets absolutely steamrolled by any sort of speed control, and I'm not really seeing the synergy between the mons at all.
Pult is too passive imo, Ursh wants Sucker Punch, Amoonguss wants sitrus/pinch berry.
Tera types are kinda weird, for the whole team I would just take a sample team or take some other successful Reg D teams (VGCPastes has a Reg D repository now :) [same with the second team]

winter gulch
# sterile flame https://pokepast.es/dd9bc1b5728d031f

looks probably ok? I wouldn't run Specs if you want to use Glimmora, and probably an AV or Sash set
Expert Belt isn't that great as an item, especially on Thundy who generally wants to be more annoying than a damage inflictor
the rest should be ok

pseudo current
#

How about that?

#

I tested with really high success

#

Btw I am aware that double shroom is unpopular and supposedly a bad idea, but this team must have both as a statement

winter gulch
# trim fiber Final product, hope you guys like it https://pokepast.es/2117e3f1d56db897

solid, nice fwg core. imo you want Wood Hammer > Knock Off on Rillaboom since it hits like a truck
I think you want Recycle on Snorlax, Double Edge > Body Slam
imo you want to commit to either Wisp or Plot on Rotom and add protect to make positioning easier
Pult wants a more refined moveset that hits harder, like Tera Blast Steel Ddarts Phantom Force +1 (or special which makes it easier)
and I would go Spirit Break > Foul Play on Grimm
btw you're wasting EVs on your mons, just use the sliders at level 50

#

also what format is your team for

winter gulch
pseudo current
#

10 and 3

winter gulch
#

what elo?

pseudo current
#

1200-1275 ish

#

From 1000 though

trim fiber
pseudo current
#

I started 1000 then got up to this with a similar team then Went 10 and 3 at 1200

trim fiber
#

Sorry if i didn’t specify but this is swsh doubles

winter gulch
# pseudo current https://pokepast.es/9dc77ccb28528a93

I would go Tera Ice to destroy Lando (and bolt beam coverage), and Tera Fire to resist Fairy upon Tera to tank Flutter better, since your team doesn't do so hot against it
Also I don't like Tera Normal on Amoonguss very much since it doesn't resist anything besides Flutter Shadow Ball, would change to water or something
Bonnet is definitely the weak link imo, its not too bad though. the team is lacking a bit of bulk though

pseudo current
#

No reatricted?

winter gulch
trim fiber
#

I wanted to use this team ingame

#

14*

winter gulch
#

ok I think it would benefit you to look at the rules for Series 14 first

trim fiber
#

Up to 2 restricted pokemon are allowed but i dont have any

#

So i tried to improvise with what i had

winter gulch
#

If you want a team without restricteds or home mons that could probably work well

#

your best bet would be a Coalossal Series 9 team

pseudo current
#

True that team is busted

#

I ran that to master top 500

trim fiber
#

I have seen lots of busted coalossal sets

winter gulch
#

its hard to craft any team without full capabilities (also this channel is for competitive rates without mon restrictions generally speaking)

trim fiber
#

Yeah i was pretty stumped for like 2 days trying to come up with the last member

pseudo current
#

Can you list pokemon available to you?

winter gulch
trim fiber
pseudo current
#

Including dlc?

#

Also wouldn’t magnet eleki be better than specs?

sterile flame
pseudo current
#

I feel like the inflexibility of not being able to use volt switch is kinda bad

trim fiber
#

Base game as in the vanilla $60 game

pseudo current
#

Sword or shield?

trim fiber
#

Sword

pseudo current
#

Use zacian

trim fiber
#

ew

winter gulch
#

I have too many other good max options, Eleki does only a bit less than max magnet

pseudo current
#

Ok that makes sense

winter gulch
#

I'm not going to lie

#

finding a usable VGC 22 team just from the base SwSh game

#

is next to impossible

trim fiber
#

Is really tough

#

I agree

winter gulch
#

its hard enough making a team without two restricteds

pseudo current
#

On my team, for reg d, how do i run tera ice on a pokemon quad weak to fighting?

trim fiber
#

My options are truly limited

pseudo current
#

Wouldn’t it die to any fighting move no matter what?

trim fiber
winter gulch
trim fiber
#

The isle of armour has such good pokemon

#

I hate to admit it but i love incineroar

winter gulch
#

you know that

trim fiber
#

And the poli line

winter gulch
#

you can get others to trade you DLC mons

#

even if you don't have the DLC yourself

#

just wonder trade a couple times, someone will trade a breedject Incin

pseudo current
#

I could help you if you need it

trim fiber
#

I’m probably going to buy to like in a few hours

#

We’ll see how it goes lmao

pseudo current
#

Ok, when you do I suggest a lunala groudon team with eleki lando and incin

winter gulch
#

there are a lot of great S12 samples out there

pseudo current
#

Last slot is up to you, but I suggest mimikyu or amoongus

winter gulch
#

I used Caly-Ice Palkia as my main team

pseudo current
#

Trick room?

winter gulch
#

yeah I'm a TR main

pseudo current
#

I always found that lunala power herb meteor beam just kinda killed trick room

trim fiber
#

I wanna run zard + groudon

pseudo current
#

Good choice

trim fiber
#

I’m a huge fan of weather

#

My first weather based team was rain room in x y

pseudo current
#

Run eleki lando vena incin and another restricted then

trim fiber
#

I will

pseudo current
#

Galar moltres or kanto zapdos is always good too

#

Or yveltal or caly shadow, zacian, and eturnatus all work

#

Just a heads up, run lum berry zard it helps so much and use scorching sands not solar beam because it helps incin matchup

winter gulch
#

just look at some sample teams from 2022 and you'll be good

pseudo current
#

What role does bonnet normally do?

#

Like what moves are popular and ev spreads?

celest salmon
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

dense wing
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

sand minnow
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

pseudo current
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

pseudo current
celest salmon
wild sinew
pseudo current
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

normal stream
#

terrible trick room matchup aside scarf eleki isnt nearly a consistent enough speed control option

#

and prior spam still rips apart most of this team

#

also whats the gameplan against torn offense?

sand minnow
#

Leki chien for torn

#

What you recommend replacing for tornadus then?

#

Cos gyarados carries the urshifu match up

pseudo current
#

Amoongus or heatran

#

You can run tera steel on one of your pokemon

sand minnow
sand minnow
#

Gyarados already has

pseudo current
#

Then replace heatran and run rain dance tailwind bleakwind taunt torn

sand minnow
#

Cheers

#

What tera type for torn

#

As its covert

#

Ground?

pseudo current
#

Btw you dont have to run torn, just have your pokemon have a speed of 150 or higher

sand minnow
#

Leki

#

?

#

Or do you mean another

#

Bundle ig

stray canopy
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

balmy valley
#

dont use Clear Amulet on Urshifu
Surging Strikes is guarunteed crit, doesnt care about attack drops
Mystic Water + Tera Water makes it do nuclear amounts of damage next to Chien-Pao

wild sinew
# stray canopy https://pokepast.es/984dee151fcbb0b9 thoughts

Yh clear Amulet isn't the greatest because the move you click 99% of the time cross
Goggles is its best optiob uni Mystic Water behind. Detect >>> Protect
Drop Sacred Sword for Crunch, you already have fighting coverage with the thing that'll be best to Chien Pao most of the time, it's better to have reliable power vs Trick Room and stuff, Sucker Punch afterall isn't something you can always rely on.
Ting wants stone edge over rock slide for the higher chance to proc Stomping Tantrum. Also move the hp evs to SpD, you get more value out of investing in it because it's lower (60 hp added on 300 will be less significant than 60 SpD added onto 150, just an example) also you're wasting some evs, to make sure you aren't, check if it's a multiple of 4 but not a multiple of 8 (4, 12, 20, 28, 36, 44, 52, 60 and so on) if possible go 172 ATK on Ting for the guaranteed Flutter knock out.
Eleki and Brute Bonnet feel super off, Eleki is hindeted by the
team not dishing out enough damage, being worse speed control and no protect leaving it vulnerable to Opposing fake out or bundle Icy Wind into Partner k.o Brute Bonnet wants to be an Amoongus, but is Max atk with one attack, it's an awkward Mon here especially when you don't have any set up sweepera

stray canopy
#

thx man, great avice

#

advice*

wild sinew
#

Your welcome, good luck

stray canopy
#

good luck too

wild sinew
#

I want to suggest some set up next to Amoonguss or Sucker Punch Brute Bonnet

#

Nasty Plot Chi Yu completed your FWG core

#

But 3 ruins might be a bit much

pseudo current
#

Hey guys i made a vgc discord

cold wigeon
#

@pseudo current dont advertise your personal servers in here please

pseudo current
#

My bad, wont happen again

cursive quail
#

I’m fairly new to VGC, but I tried my hand at creating a Regieleki offense team. The idea is that Regieleki can be an offensive mon with the singles strat of tera ice tera blast to deal with ground types, while Chi Yu boosts its power. If I don’t wanna go for that cheese though, I’ve also got electroweb on it for speed control.

https://pokepast.es/8874b9b41bd013d5

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

pseudo current
topaz edge
#

https://pokepast.es/3db1b2b6431a201f Switched out Indeedee for Cresselia. Not 100% on its moveset and item because ive never used a cresselia in competitve before so just went mainly support with it.

wild sinew
coral granite
#

This is pretty much my first vgc team. https://pokepast.es/1fc728b00f9dc0a6 The strat is use broken moves like Draco Meteor and mitigate the stat drops with haze. Dunno about the great tusk pick tho.

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wild sinew
# coral granite This is pretty much my first vgc team. https://pokepast.es/1fc728b00f9dc0a6 The ...

There's some things you'll want
Protect on Flutter is recommended but optional, more bulk, less speed and SpA.
I suggest a different Dragon type for Draco Meteor because of the disappointing 100 SpA, if you want to use Pult you'd rely on Clear Body Dragon Darts Phantom Force. Dragon Darts doubling on a target if the other protects and Phantom force out right breaking through Protect is amazing in doubles. It won't be next to Murkrow all the time
Brave Bird > Drill Peck, Jolly > Timid, no reason to cut your attack stat and you normally want Murk off the field so you can abuse your Tailwind turns with your strong attackers. Also slight note but your team really wants sunny day (maybe over protecr which makes me sound hypocritical but it is the one mon you don't really need it on) Tera Ghost to dodge fake out is solid
You're investing 140 in atk with a -atk nature, just use Flare Blitz over Overheat imo, healing also loses a lot of momentum in 8~ turn games so just use Protect, a main issue is that you don't have any, it is the best move in doubles imo, also boots is a bad item because Hazards are non existent, there are 4 pokemon and 2 of them are on the field
Drop Flip turn, you want to hard switch out anyway since switching on a bad lead loses too much momentum and youre not really getting important chip damage. Wave Crash for the nuking power is so much greater imo, Choice Band leaves you a bit vulnerable, it already has a sky high attack stat so replacing it with something like Mystic Water, Eject Pack or safety Goggles and fitting in Protect will be much better for your team
Yh Hazards are non existent so no need for rapid spin, speed is crucial for Tailwind and you don't need those bulk investments really. Headlong Rush/Close Combat/Coverage/Protect is standard or if you want to go Scarf you can replace Protect with earthquake, lefties isn't as reliable in short games

Just my personal Thoughts and I hopefully wasn't rude or anything

weak kettle
#

hey ive been trying out this g moltres team and i like it alot, though i feel like its missing something. im kinda new to vgc specially reg d so id love some help ty :) https://pokepast.es/f756a6853b95abae

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

coral granite
#

Considering changing Arcanine’s Tera to fire

balmy valley
#

ik Spectrier is budget Flutter
but the sweeping potential is funnier

#

and base 100 HP + Grassy Seed goes crazy

wild sinew
# coral granite Dropped certain utility moves for protect, rearranged the ev investments and nat...

Getting better now, I want to suggest you dump the SpD into the Def, because it's already so low you want it to Bulky enough to live common priority. Since you already have Tailwind, you could get away with a modest nature, and I want to suggest another item on Flutter Mane because sunny day activates Protosynthesis
Tera Steel Tera Blast should help Dragapult more than Thunder, go Jolly/Adamant btw so you don't lower your defences.
You probably forgot to make the Arcanine change, a +Def -SpA (Think that's impish) Nature and fitting the SpA EVs somewhere would work better here.
Palafin looks good, although you want to know less hp = more Wave Crash recoil, some are fine with that so I'll leave you to it.
Sunny day Should be on Murkrow because of prankster and it can reliably set Sun or Tailwind depending on what you're team needs, Tusk can go Scarf, AV or if you want Protect can rely on Sash or a Life Orb. In VGC it plays a more offensive role, Ice Spinner/Rock Slide I recommend.

coral granite
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Is Eviolite still good on Murkrow or should it be swapped with Heat Rock so that the stronger Pokémon can be on the field for longer?

wild sinew
inner pendant
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

heady kiln
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the mons/sets themselves seem fine, main complaint is no ursaluna with cress

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also the glast evs are definitely inefficient

inner pendant
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how should i change the evs on rilla and glast?

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maybe ursa > lando

heady kiln
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more hp less defenses I mean

golden patrol
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hey all! wanted to make a vgc trick room team - inspired by cresselia, crabominable and landorus as i just like the last two - what would you suggest?

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i'd like to avoid super meta mons, and i'd also be happy to maybe try sneasler as i have a shiny one on PLA 😄 lmk!

wild sinew
# inner pendant https://pokepast.es/3771d263a5a64845 not my team, is it viable?

Always been mixed about Sash Urshifu, the meta isn't that strong and only super effective hits really threaten it. the moveset and spread are fine though.
Give Rilla 8 more hp EVs to optimise Grassy Terrain recovery. And may I ask what they are calced for? That is a very slow Rilla that may lose the fake out war a bit too often, faster fake out feels too important to pass up imo
Tera Ghost Tornadus or slot in protect, you're vulnerable to fake out
May I ask what the Lando spread is for? Not going Max speed feels a bit eh when you need the crucial jump on Urshifu and Chi Yu. Idk about grass knot when you have Rillaboom, Psychic to reliably delete Amoongus and Urshifu while also having a way to hit the mirror Lando is nicer from personal experience
Your Cress is vulnerable to Taunt, this may be an issue but testing on ladder is the best way to find out if you Like Leftovers or not, you need Lunar blessing, it's so good, you heal sleep from the mushroom
It could help Glastrier who doesn't seem to need Goggles when it speed ties Amoongus, a lot of your other pokemon are vulnerable to the mushroom more than Glastrier (Urshifu redirected into rocky helmet or Cress put to sleep)
These are just my personal Thoughts

grand umbra
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

sand minnow
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it oneshots ursaluna with helping hand

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use helping hand instead of ally switch on cresselia

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run wild charge over thunder punch on iron hands

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leaf storm amoonguss isn't good in vgc. run clear smog or protect depending on what you value more.

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these are just opinions tho

wild sinew
# grand umbra https://pokepast.es/4663d0178ff2439e Here's a trick room team. (This is my first...

Why hammer arm? You could use SD, Headlong Rush or Drain Punch for the recovery, Crunch is also nice to hit would be checks
Feel like you want helping hand cress since you're using earthquake, you want to guarantee the other side drops
Iron Hands learns detect, probably want it to replace protect, also you're wasting some EVs, move the 4 Def into Atk. Tera Fire for sure, Iron Hands without Assualt Vest doesn't appreciate taking the Strong special hits from fairies
Give goodra heavy slam and protect/life dew so you can invest in bulk. It provides a guaranteed kill on Flutter Mane with 0 investment, it's not really hitting much with Draco Meteor
Leaf Storm isn't recommended, protect is usually the best option but if you believe it can do damage, sure Ig. Btw you're using 2 Sitrus berries, vgc has an item clause rule

If it's possible I recommend slotting in Urshifu, protect is the #1 way to stall out tick room.

grand umbra
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Also the spdef and Def EVs are swapped. A habit I had when I was new to competitive.

wild sinew
grand umbra
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Ah I see, I lost to imprison my last match. The Chi-yu was dudunsparce sweeped.

wild sinew
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And yh it's better
Prolly experiment and decide if you like Punching glove

grand umbra
wild sinew
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?

grand umbra
wild sinew
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ah alr

grand umbra
# wild sinew ah alr

With full honesty I gotten a bit sloppy to a minecraft tournament I participated in. I won, but in turn I got a injury and haven't played competitive for 20 days. I think I right clicked to fast. I was playing in 1.8 pvp.

wild sinew
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ouch, sorry to hear

pseudo current
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what is the best AV rilla ev spread, and what is the best cress ev spread?

golden flint
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wild sinew
inner pendant
wild sinew
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Lmao

woven rose
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wooden shard
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Also isnt it better to have snarl over np on chiyu

cursive mason
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Over heat is actually probably preferred in that slot

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Also yeah go Tera norm espeed on dnite

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There’s also been a popular dozo team that puts bundle in the flutter slot if you feel like flutter isn’t working

drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

grand umbra
wooden shard
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Solid but tbh Grimmsnarl feels out of place here i would prob switch it out for smt

winter gulch
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this team wants to pivot a lot and I feel like no Protect on Arc, single use Booster on Flutter, and no ground immunes for Chomp feels a bit odd

grand umbra
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Booster on flutter may seem odd but when it switches in it does work. It helps that it doesn't limit it or drain it at the cost of a single use. Pretty useful late game, and early game sometimes.

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And Howl is to prevent Intimidate from affecting my team. Pala and garchomp appreciate greatly.

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However Grim does feel a bit out of place but I don't know what pivotal mon would help.

grand umbra
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@winter gulch sorry to ping.

winter gulch
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the first thing that comes to mind for me is AV Volt Switch Hands

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and I would probably drop Howl for Protect on Arc

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also probably Haze > CC on Palafin bc your Dondozo MU looks pretty bad rn

edgy wind
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wild sinew
# grand umbra https://pokepast.es/cc7933f61e70ed27 how's this? (This is for regulation C)

Yh choice locked spread move with no ground immunes is an issue, I think dropping the choice or giving it Tera Steel Iron Head would make this a standard Palance core (Amoon, Arc, Palafin, Flutter Mane, Ting Lu + Physical Attacker of choice). You could always replace the Garchomp if you find something better though, Scarf Great Tusk or even a speed control option in Bundle work better here imo
I recommend Haze Palafin, Dondozo is still a presence and you don't want a rough matchup into it, ever.
Arcanine spread feels a bit outdsted, it seems to be slow here, it's goal is not to dish out damage afterall, but you especially want the early burn on monsters like Great Tusk,
May I ask why the hp on Flutter? Feels like defence investment is more important since you don't care about special hits, and 36 & 116 are the SpAtk bumps for Flutter, just letting you know.

wild sinew
# edgy wind https://pokepast.es/c61f4a571ff475bc Thoughts on regidrago team ?

You have Covert Cloak, Tera Dark instead
I believe 76 EVs is the optimisation for Leftovers recovery on Heatran, may I ask why all that speed?
If you already have Tailwind, do you need swift swim? You lose so much damage without Adaptibity imo, one bonus is that 50 BP Last Respects picks up the kill on the Bulky Flutter Mane, and Aqua Jet deletes Chi Yu (87.5% chance to kill). I like Tera Grass to dodge Amoongus
132 hp optimises Grassy Terrain for Rillaboom and 36 (or 164) optimise for Sneasler's, not a big fan of substitute in this meta at all, especially because it contrasts with Grassy Terrain optimisation, you'll be doubled a lot of the time and it's just not worth it. Btw 188 speed outspeeds Urshifu, just letting you know. Have to say Rillaboom could use a defensive Tera, it's a U Turn bot after all. Fire and Water are it's best depending on your matchup with Urshifu

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is it weird that Im thinking Cress

inner pendant
edgy wind
wild sinew
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You're welcome, feel free to ask any questions

grand umbra
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And as FSG said: If you don't have the hp to tank those hits. Those defense stats are nothing.

wild sinew
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This just feels uncomfortable to deal with
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Ice Spinner vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 139-165 (87.4 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

fair marlin
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wild sinew
# fair marlin Can I get some input on my rain team? https://pokepast.es/6af29b5184f5a1d6

Not quite the fan of some stuff, (assuming this is new and you come from a singles background?)

Making Tornadus the rain setter and making Thundurus therian feels like a Start (Tailwind/Rain Dance/Taunt/Bleakwind and Wildbolt/Volt Switch/Tera Ice Tera Blast/Protect). Tera Dark Tornadus because you don't have any speed, you don't want to be taunted by the other Tornadus.

Flip Turn isn't good on Palafin, Eject Pack Close Combat and Hard Switching are your best bet, make it Tera Grass because it wants to Stay alive and dodge Amoongus. Jet Punch/Wave Crash/Coverage/Protect is standard enough with a lot more hp (you don't want to take too much Wave Crash recoil)
Tauros feels a bit meh here, it wants to be a mini Basculegion and a mini Landorus at the same time, it's Moonblast weakness already hinders it, but it's not really fast enough or capable of dealing enough damage.
Keep in mind hazards are non existent in a vgc meta, 4v4 with 2 pokemon each on the field doesn't make it worth it, hence you don't see boots on even quad weak pokemon.

Liligant feels a bit inconsistent, in a fast paced format one wrong turn is all it takes to lose the game. Making it an Amoonguss or Rillaboom to help position Palafin (Rage Powder and Fake Out) are very nice here, want to make the most out of its few strengths it has over Urshifu. Speaking of Urshifu;
Might as well drop Bundle for something like Urshifu Dark, 3 water types is a bit much even for rain, people like to stall out Tailwind turns with Protect so being able to pressure with your Urshifu is super strong here, helps vs the present screen teams and H Goodra rn.
In the last two slots, you can also go Chien Pao Dragonite if you are comfortable with the hyper offensive playstyle, them paired with Tornadus Tailwind is a common core right now and gives you a mode outside of rain

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Main thing you should pay attention to is your protects, recommend at least 3 as an early start, learning to position them is probably one of if not the most important skills in VGC

fair marlin
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Ok, I kinda based my team on favorites and felt Palafin being a Dolphin (which I had been wishing for since I was a kid playing RSE) was a good starting point since it would be easier to build around

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@wild sinew so you know, since Palafin was a favorite already I thought it’d be a great starting point

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Cause I like basing my teams around a few favorites makes it easier to get invested for me

wild sinew
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Mhm That's understandable

fair marlin
wild sinew
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Amoonguss/Rillaboom are great

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I'll send a right up of everything that works

fair marlin
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Sure

fair marlin
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Tornadus and Thundurus are fine tho right?

wild sinew
fair marlin
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I was using them as supports

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@wild sinew you know cause prankster Pokémon and all, so support felt reasonable

grand umbra
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I swear palafin is the All Might of pokemon.

fair marlin
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And even more so that it’s one of the strongest Pokémon around now

grand umbra
fair marlin
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This is partially why I’ve wanted Palafin in my team so badly, because it’s a Pokémon I’ve been hoping for since I was a kid

wild sinew
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Rillaboom, Amoongus, Iron Hands, Arcanine, Lando-T, Lando-I, Urshifu, Chien Pao, Ting Lu, Chi Yu, Gyarados, Flutter Mane, Tornadus, Thundurus, Basculegion, Regieleki and Baxcaliber all work as Palafin partners in a rain based team
I recommend watching NeilVGC, he made bulk up Goggles Palafin work very well

fair marlin
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Tornadus and Thundurus do what exactly?

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How does Iron Bundle do as a Palafin partner? Cause tbh I’m not quite a fan of Hands

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@wild sinew

wild sinew
# fair marlin <@783920415121735731>

Tornadus helps set Tailwind and Rain
Thundurus can be a Volt absorb switch in and gets rid of the water types resisting Palafin with electric STAB and the grass types with flying/Ice coverage

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Iron Bundle is okay but a bit harder to pilot

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I recommend giving hands ago, wasn't a fan of it either but when something carries you through games, it grows on you

fair marlin
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What would Rillaboom do exactly? Is he an attacker or support as well?

cursive mason
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Rilla kinda plays like a support but also does good damage, mainly supporting with like fake out and pivoting but also having good damage with wood hammer

fair marlin
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Ok, who’s a better partner? Rilla or Amoongus?

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For the grass type

wild sinew
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Honestly preference

fair marlin
wild sinew
fair marlin
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Just wanna see all my options

wild sinew
fair marlin
wild sinew
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Gtg-
I'll respond in a bit if you ask a question

fair marlin
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It’s a little hard to replace Lilligant-H cause I really like her

cursive mason
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Lilligant-h is really only used on sun, but it’s pretty good there

fair marlin
wild sinew
fair marlin
wild sinew
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I understand

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But yeah pokemon will grow on you as you win with them

fair marlin
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For some I have a hard time liking them at all solely because of their design

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Iron Hands/Hariyama being one of them

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Hariyama is one of my 10 least favorites

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Design wise

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@wild sinew also what do you mean Bundle is hard to pilot?

wild sinew
fair marlin
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Ah

wild sinew
fair marlin
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Tbh it’s a little hard getting behind the idea of using paradox Pokémon cause they don’t leave much room for creativity

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Is there anything else I could use instead then?

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Am I to assume you suggest Iron Hands cause electric type?

woven rose
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Hybrid of a Dozo team with a trick room mode as well

wild sinew
fair marlin
fair marlin
wild sinew
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You can get away with not using iron hands if you use Rillaboom

fair marlin
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Ah okay then

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So they’re both meant to be tanks with fake out?

fair marlin
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@wild sinew would Pachirisu or Maushold make a good follow me user? Cause Rilla + Amoonguss would be a bit redundant

wild sinew
celest salmon
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

fair marlin
wild sinew
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But it looks like a great start

fair marlin
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Oh why single strike? Cause a single moonblast can wipe him out

cursive mason
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Rapid strike might be stacking too many waters

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Also if you’re worried about darkshifu surviviability, sash is good

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Choice band is also good tho

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Also you should be running bleakwind storm on tornadus

wild sinew
cursive mason
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I feel like for rain specifically, pelipper is better than torn

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Torn is nice for semi-rain but for full rain pelipper is better

fair marlin
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I’d much prefer Politoed but that’s not an option cause of course Nintendo has to leave out one of the best water types ever

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Tbh Pelipper is not good because of the fact Torkoal exists and will overwrite the rain so the idea was to use Tornadus to replace it instead

cursive mason
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Torkoal is relatively uncommon and pelipper providing the opportunity to switch in and set rain is really nice

fair marlin
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I can’t bring myself to like him

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I’ve tried repeatedly with teams using Pelipper and I can’t stick with it long term

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Cause for me a big thing is if I like the Pokémon’s design

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Cause to me, Pelipper’s design is well…. Stupid and not in a fun stupid way like Alolan Exeggutor @cursive mason

wild sinew
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Peli cant reliably set TW often and it doesnt have the taunt support Torn gets, the SpA and bleakwind is nice. Torn can decide to set rain or tailwind first depending on what is needed, but if peli dies and they just brute force through, its kind of rough

fair marlin
wild sinew
fair marlin
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Aight

fair marlin
wild sinew
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good, some things

wild sinew
# fair marlin https://pokepast.es/603f7d0f9dedc4e7 How’s this?

as before, not biggest fan of flip turn, Wave Crash ans investing in hp is your best bet, also fitting in protect and safety goggles/tera grass.
Adaptibility Wave Crash Basc is best, Aqua Jet > Ice Fang. You have tailwind and Basc really likes the extra damage, Tera water is nice for the same reason
timid raichu, nuzzle > volt switch and replace Tbolt with protect, Tera Grass, Flying or Water work fine
Amoonguss is wasting EVs, Also prolly better to just go max def because the meta is physical rn, Water is its best Tera
Tera Dark Tornadus, Bleakwind Storm over Air Slash
Aqua Jet > Waterfall, Protect > Ice Spinner, ideally Tera Grass Urshfu

fair marlin
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But isn’t Palafin a speedy attacker? @wild sinew

wild sinew
fair marlin
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So what do I do for the switch then?

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Cause a hard switch seems like not the greatest idea

wild sinew
fair marlin
wild sinew
fair marlin
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Yeah

wild sinew
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Wave Crash, Jet Punch, Protect, Filler
Either Tera Water Safety Goggles or Tera Grass Mystic Water/Eject Pack

fair marlin
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Got it

fair marlin
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need a new line up

wild sinew
fair marlin
wild sinew
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not necessarily

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Ive gotten 4-0d a lot before, still use the same team and win often, its all about practice

fair marlin
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here's a battle involving them

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and another battle I'm against Mane and Bundle

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when can we burn all paradox at the stake?

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this feels impossible

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@wild sinew I'm now 1-5 yeah this team sucks

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1-6

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yeah please get me a new team I can't do this

wild sinew
fair marlin
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I leave before the final hit lands

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I don't wanna sit through it

wild sinew
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ah

fair marlin
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all you need to know, is that paradoxes shoulda remained banned

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cause they are the work of satan himself

wild sinew
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most paradoxes are pretty mid imo

fair marlin
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even then this team is not doing well

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so I want a new one

wild sinew
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You could try and use teams proven to do well as a start to get better at a faster rate

fair marlin
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I don't want rentals

wild sinew
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not sure how to help then

fair marlin
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I rather use pokemon I raise myself

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not someone else's team

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It's not some pride thing, it's that it feels more satisfying to win with what you worked on yourself

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I've tried rental teams before and to be perfectly honest, it wasn't that fun for me

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@wild sinew cause it's similar to using someone else's account for an online game, they already got everything set to go, but it's not as fun using it cause all the work's been done for you, if that makes sense

wild sinew
fair marlin
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and I really REALLY don't like them

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cause they feel static as hell

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I only put up with the idea of running iron bundle cause it at least is goofy looking enough

wild sinew
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Some of them don't

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I believe a lot of rain, TW hyper offence and balance can get away without using one

fair marlin
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rain teams use pelipper

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so I rather not use a mid at best weather setter

wild sinew
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Tornadus is usually the best weather setter

fair marlin
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here's the last team I used

fair marlin
wild sinew
# fair marlin https://pokepast.es/7133e2dcac813893

The idea with Eject Pack is that you can use close combat to get a free switch sometimes or be able to adapt a lead to something like intimidate

I'm happy to elaborate on why this team can work if needed

fair marlin
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normally I pick Raichu, Tornadus, Palafin and Urshifu-Surging

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tornadus and Palafin being my lead

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btw should I use Raichu with Endeavor instead of volt switch?

wild sinew
# fair marlin please I have no idea which to use, I typically hard switch Palafin for Raichu

Hard switch only if Palafin is actually threatened
In the replay you won, neither Grimmsnarl or Ceruledge threatened Palafin so you could go offensive with the rain boosted Wave Crashes. But also, when you see Grimmsnarl you should assume screens, better to lead Fake Out + move that kills it so it doesn't get a screen up, taking it out before it sets up both is also good enough, as they are effectively playing a 4v3 with reflect.
Your Tornadus has 0 speed EVs, use Tera Dark to dodge other Tornadus taunts.
I recommend more speed on Basculegion so you could outspeed Regieleki under Tailwind
Go Max special attack on Raichu since you're focus Sash anyway
Amoongus likes the hp EVs over the SpD EVs
Why choice band protect btw? My suggestion was for prev when you had Life Orb

fair marlin
wild sinew
fair marlin
wild sinew
fair marlin
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cause Showdown says it's illegal for it to know that move

wild sinew
fair marlin
wild sinew
#

A lot of move changes

fair marlin
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like if you're unsure about the opponent's team what would your 4 go-to's be

wild sinew
fair marlin
#

Got it

fair marlin
wild sinew
# fair marlin And last question regarding both choices, who would you Tera in each?

Tera is usually dependent on the situation, if you don't want to lose your Urshifu, you Terastalise for that crucial extra turn it sticks on the field, sometimes though they have a big threat in the back you want to save your Tera for, you have to play to a winnable endgame in most scenarios. I.e if Basculegion is in the back vs Chien Pao Dragonite, you target the Chien Pao as it would win vs Basc In an endgame 1v1, but Dragonite would lose

fair marlin
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Got it

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Didn’t know if it was like Gmax/Dmax, despite how toxic that gimmick was

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You know, have an intended target

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Sorry for getting fed up earlier, just so tired of losing with everything I try, so you know, it gets discouraging @wild sinew

wild sinew
fair marlin
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Like I get losing every now and then is perfectly normal, but getting a marathon of them is quite infuriating

fair marlin
wild sinew
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Even avalugg

fair marlin
wild sinew
heady kiln
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ah jk samurott isn't

fair marlin
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@wild sinew so one last question, regarding the Urshifu, what exactly is the difference between Water vs Dark?

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Besides signature move and type

wild sinew
# fair marlin Besides signature move and type

That's really it
If you have 2 water types already, you'll probably want to go Urshifu Dark
If you have Chien Pao, you'd like to go to Urshifu Water
Urshifu Water has the benefit of breaking focus Sash, but Dark isn't scared of rocky helmet. Dark is walled by Fairy but Water is walled by the best redirector in the format, Amoonguss.

fair marlin
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Guessing since I have Basculegion I can have either him or Water Urshifu then a check for Amoonguss?

fair marlin
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I think part of my problem is that I see a x4 weakness and immediately think “this one’s bad”

wild sinew
#

Ah

fair marlin
# wild sinew Ah

So would you say Glaceon/Chien Pao + Water Urshifu or Basculegion + Dark Urshifu

wild sinew
fair marlin
wild sinew
#

Mhm

north rain
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

hidden path
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av on heatran

cursive mason
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It’s hard TR LO is fine

covert hill
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Hi everyone

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Can someone rate my team?

balmy valley
drifting onyxBOT
#

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @winter gulch, @shrewd horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

balmy valley
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this isn't exactly original

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but uh

shrewd horizon
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the cress feels very random tbh

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bundle and lando are very fast everything else is mid speed tier

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and then there is a cresselia

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Would def reconsider that slot as like flutter mane

shrewd horizon
# covert hill https://pokepast.es/4fba6f3d8fe13b60

I would go scarf on urshifu, and run some more bulk evs (run some more on flutter too, you really dont need 252/252), run attack investment on rilla and replace the corv with like a heatran, oh and sucker punch > crunch on chien-pao

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Heatran gives you fwg and is very strong on tailwind, and sucker punch on chien-pao is super nice for elekis/bundles and outspeeding other priority

balmy valley
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I mean
I did struggle with TR but that was before I had Ape
ill try Flutter

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although that makes me weaker to chien/urshifu/dnite stuff