OM Rates

[gray crane]

isn't like arceus water good against all those strength sap sucks their attack for consistent healing and maybe scald can burn the non-fire types and it naturally walls special attackers and can set up on them

[shrewd spoke]

the problem is that

1. you need to switch in first (you can't because they're too strong)
2. it's reliant on strength sap (prone to getting blocked by things like magic bounce or blobs) without any additional support, not even leftovers

for reference, these are the calcs vs every mon i just mentioned:
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus-Water: 366-432 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Blaziken-Mega V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus-Water in Harsh Sunshine: 294-347 (66.2 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Blaziken-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus-Water: 340-402 (76.5 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ice Scales Arceus-Water: 187-221 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

yes, theoretically you live all of those attacks but in practice they will just switch into their strength sap blocker

this is also not considering water is a pretty bad type to be a special wall in general thanks to the strength of thunder cage users

[gray crane]

ye it sure will take long for me to get the grasp of all this 😭

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/a4c5fb0557d9d7ce Okay I did my best to somewhat salvage the problem (I feel like I flopped even more)

[shrewd spoke]

i think this is a step in a direction

i can send you some examples of successful hazard stack teams if you like

[gray crane]

Sure I would like to

[shrewd spoke]

https://pokepast.es/c1e51f3f8d27da27
https://pokepast.es/95f58d2286d02379
https://pokepast.es/76459944a572f652 (side note i have never used this)
https://pokepast.es/9e93c2be3f8d7a28 (this can be hard to understand)

[gray crane]

a bit of a stupid question but I don't understand the chansey set on the first one

[shrewd spoke]

it has very little attack so your opponents' strength sap heals irrelevant amounts, its a hard answer to most special threats, does damage with ruination (which adds up) and pivots around

[untold hornet]

why not teleport tho

instead of u-turn

[shrewd spoke]

beats taunt

[untold hornet]

oh ic

[gray crane]

ok then thx for the help

[mint crypt]

Syringe mention peak has been reached

[onyx quartz]

I'm returning to showdown with this as my first team made back into bio mech mons how is it? https://pokepast.es/6f7c8995a99e1efb

[umbral lava]

Hey @onyx quartz, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9biomechmons. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[oak topaz]

you will get better responses if you go to omcord

and the lcotm channel

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/69d778994a8e403c this feels like a mess for some reason

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Balanced Hackmons RMT @shrewd spoke, @oak topaz. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[shrewd spoke]

i think the main problem w this is the exact same as the previous team where there just isnt any coherent direction

[gray crane]

was going for a HO team but still don't know much of the meta to know which mon is the best at something, I wanted two sticky webs sitters to make sure they don't just get erased constantly, I did want a spinner for hazards but couldn't find the set for something fast and decently strong with a spin move so I sticked with kyogre which from what I think does kinda slow things down

[shrewd spoke]

fwiw we dont have a lot of sets on smogdex that cater to offense right now so you really just have to wing it most of the time

or look into sets others already made

but uh generally speaking you want to constantly and consistently apply pressure so your opponent dont have time to heal up

so more passive guys like your zacian and kyogre or more reactive wallbreakers like ur choicers dont usually work well

[gray crane]

Arceus-Steel @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Earth Eater
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

• Mortal Spin
• Topsy-Turvy
• Moongeist Beam
• Tachyon Cutter
  would this set be a better replacement for kyogre?

[shrewd spoke]

its still kinda passive (doesnt do enough damage) and doesn't actually remove that well due to you not pressuring steel types

fwiw you dont need hazard removal on offense per se

[gray crane]

so I guess I should just make the last two mons strictly offesnive?

[shrewd spoke]

i think you should make the core less reactive first

2 choice breakers is insanely inflexible for any playstyle and offense particularly cannot afford it whatsoever

choice is already a luxury and every single choicer u see on offense will be some scarf guy to revenge kill and not a strict wallbreaker

[gray crane]

so if I'm going to use it at most I should use one at most?

[untold hornet]

https://pokepast.es/920645d9a7eb9583 😭

[shrewd onyx]

zacian crowned's ability becomes intrepid sword in battle

[untold hornet]

yeah ik that’s why it’s wabsorb instead of a better one

[shrewd onyx]

real

[finite dove]

https://pokepast.es/8d55e00f7af6a0ec is this team good for balanced hackmons?

[mint crypt]

New [Gen 9] Balanced Hackmons RMT @shrewd spoke, @oak topaz . I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[shrewd spoke]

apart from greninja being unimproofed and zacian improof being pretty flimsy (it outspeeds hooh into sap into living vc) the core is kinda workable i guess

[untold hornet]

should i just throw away gren and then add a better zacian check

like a m bounce steel or smth

[shrewd spoke]

i have no idea what zardy is supposed to accomplish here since it 1. instantly dies to rocks 2. is running a bad ability (beads of ruin is straight up better than solar power in 99% of situations) 3. really doesnt synergize with sun's main gameplan being pivot around get sun up get chicken or other ridiculous wallbreaker in because it cant pivot nor wallbreak
apart from that your imposter proofing is really poor which is a problem for any team but especially weather since it tends to have less sturdy defenses thanks to having to waste at least 2 slots (weather setter + abuser improof) ((also your abuser blaziken loses to every regular blaziken check like thats just a really bad idea))

[shrewd spoke]

the gren is fine since its the wincon u can just tweak around the fur coat mons a bit

[untold hornet]

prolly i replace arc ghost for another one?

[shrewd spoke]

like miraidon + yveltal/fairyceus or something

well actually ig if ur on yveltal u dont need it to be fc per se

[untold hornet]

like m guard yvel?

[shrewd spoke]

ye

[untold hornet]

and fc mirai

and replace what tho

[shrewd spoke]

the already existing fur coat users

[untold hornet]

oh

[shrewd spoke]

if u dont wanna do arcless u can also do like fc etern instead of miraidon and then ice scales electric arc > pert

[untold hornet]

i want pert tho

[shrewd spoke]

thats just a suggestion /shrug

[untold hornet]

it’s fine to drop arc cuz i don’t like it

oh ok

thx

[finite dove]

Ngl i just thought zard was funny to run since it 2hkos scales arceus and outspeeds a lot of stuff, what abuser should i run over it tho

[shrewd spoke]

i really like random mixed guys w v create

like pogre ultra necrozma whatever

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/0da38478e2a5e633

[umbral lava]

Hey @gray crane, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9convergence. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[umbral lava]

Hey @ripe nexus, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9legendszaou team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1060682530094862477 instead.

[lunar mural]

https://pokepast.es/4d398a29e8c62db2
made a team using one of my favourite pokemon in Gliscor! its not revolved around them but i wanted to use Shore Up on a Poison Heal set so its a STABmons team. lmk what i can change!

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @pliant coral, @orchid grove, @real osprey. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lunar mural]

oh forgot to mention that the main core is Gliscor, Tyranitar and Kingambit: the trio that’s immune to the sandstorm chip

[gray crane]

I'm absolutely not an expert but I have questions, first I feel like your team lacks a bit in special power, ye moth exists but once it's gone practically most physical walls are walling your team, also why steller on val?

[mint crypt]

my big problem is it feels like the last two mons are just sort of slapped on there, without actually contributing to the overall team very much. The second thing is that 2/3 of your "core" sets could be improved drastically. Tyranitar actually gets shore up from a pre-evolution having ground type, so I'd recommend running the more standard

Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Def
Careful Nature
- Shore Up
- Knock Off
- Salt Cure / Parting Shot
- Stone Axe / Spikes```
Tera is not legal in stabmons currently, so there's no need to care about tera types. Gliscor won't ever really be using facade, so I'd switch it for u-turn, spikes, or defog, since the team is currently lacking hazard removal. Gliscor also isn't making great use of it's ev's, As with the higher power level of Stabmons, it needs to invest more in bulk even with sand. 
Kingambit would really rather be Excadrill, as exca benefits far more from sand offensively while also offering some much needed speed control and revenging capabilities for the team over just sucker punch mindgames with kingambit. Dondozo can work on these kinds of sand teams, but usually runs curse + jet punch or surging strikes over body press and wave crash if you are set on running it. My final recommendations would be to drop moth for a regenvest toxapex 

Toxapex @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

• Mortal Spin
• Scald
• Clear Smog / Malignant Chain
• Flip Turn

Moth's issue (and why I had you drop it) is that it completely thuds into the tiers top special walls ting-lu and toxapex, even with coverage for them. Coupled with it's crippling rocks weakness and a lack of otherwise distinguishing features mean it's just not worth running over other special breakers.

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/c110085a8cb55de0 is this good for a starter?

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @real osprey. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[mint crypt]

Make exca shore up 4th + covert cloak

ur using it as a revenger + cleaner

[gray crane]

oh ok, is the team good tho for a starter?

[mint crypt]

oh and make lando a defensive set and not scarf, you don't need the speed control from scarf lando since u have exca, and the team really wants a strong physical in

to shore up hydrapple

[gray crane]

should I give it some spe evs or just mostly def?

[orchid grove]

Okay, I was writing a bit of a long thing, but Beef covered about everything I wanted to.

One thing I will say though is that with Lando being PhysDef, I think this six would benefit heavily from Defensive SD unless you're really set on keeping Spikes.

Still a reliable defensive Lando that can now turn the mons it switches in on into an opportunity to become a very potent balance breaker. Especially as a variant of Lando that beats other Lando. (Defensive Lando usually being a mon that comes in on another Lando in the first place.)

Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
Impish Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Beak Blast
- Swords Dance
- Shore Up```

Also one of my favorite sets for Lando in general, but that's a topic for another day.

Beating opposing Lando, or at least turning it into an opportunity to make the opponent scramble against it is really helpful for Sand teams, especially with how threatened Drill is by opposing Beak Blast Lando.

So having a mon that straight up turns it, and other threats like Pex (While holding Covert Cloak) into set up fodder allows Excadrill a lot more wiggle room to do as it pleases.

[gray crane]

interesting, ok I'll try that, although is there any weaknesses in the team like what are mons or teams I should be worried about?

[mint crypt]

weavile/mamo are always going to be scary matchups

[gray crane]

ye the ice weakness here is annoying, while pex can be decent once it's gone rip

[orchid grove]

I think they generally have the tools to outplay Mamo, and Weavile in most scenarios.

Offensive Rotom Wash is going to be hard to deal with if it's carrying Freeze-Dry. You're free to experiment a bit with the teamslots, but it's a really hard Pokemon to account for from a purely defensive standpoint in the first place without leaning into something like the Blobs.

[mint crypt]

ye

[lunar mural]

thank you so much for the advice! I’ll change up the team based on this and post an update to the team afterward in case there’s still problems

though I do have a quick question

[gray crane]

ok then, thx for the help guys, I'll test it and see for myself the changes that need to be made, wish me I don't get crushed by a pro's alt (happens to much)

[lunar mural]

if I drop gambit for exca, should I run rapid spin on it for another way to take down hazards?

or is Mortal Spin gonna be enough

[orchid grove]

Rapid Spin is generally just nice for Exca to have regardless, since it rarely needs the slot for anything else, and the extra insurance is very helpful due to how unreliable Mortal Spin is as hazard removal.

[mint crypt]

Excadrill @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Headlong Rush
• Sunsteel Strike
• Rapid Spin
• Shore Up
  this is the set I normally use

[orchid grove]

Covert Cloak is evil tech to scare Pex.

[lunar mural]

looks nice, tho I’ll probably use EQ over headlong because I like being able spam attacks without punishing myself for it. just my preference, not a change I’d do to ur set

[mint crypt]

Cloak exca is my goat

[lunar mural]

exca for greatest gen 5 pokemon

[mint crypt]

valid, headlong is mostly because you need the oomph to properly revenge a lot of neutral targets from full, but eq works fairly well given the team's ability to spread chip

[gray crane]

I mean to be honest, exca kinda frail as hell it's not surviving strong hits most of the time so the stats drop aren't that bad for extra damage

[lunar mural]

true, I just don’t like the risk of versing a team with strong priority

because then even resisted priority attacks might KO exca if it spams headlong

I’ll play some games switching the two to experiment though, get the best of both worlds

[severe thorn]

Headlong is honestly better as it lets you deal some extra damage that would put stuff in range of things

Offensive tusk as an example generally uses headlong over eq

[lunar mural]

i made a stall team that... isn't really stall. fun concept i thought up of, kinda like bait and switch. lmk how i can change it (if at all) or if i should switch roles
https://pokepast.es/15ac4fea60192775

this is for STABmons

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @real osprey. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lunar mural]

why did it not ping the first time i have no idea

(also i know i can't use terastalization but it's a habit for me anyway)

[oak topaz]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
Here you too

[lunar mural]

thx 🫡

[mint crypt]

ok so if you're going fakestall there's a couple main problems rn but also just some basic fixes

rabsca is not worth it

you also don't make great use of trick room since you have nothing that can take advantage of it immediately, and troom isn't long enough to support fake stall with breaking

first changes are basic stuff for p2 and dozo, boomburst over tera starstorm, recover over wish since you want more reliable recovery. Trick room is not working on a team like this. If you really want trick room, you're going to have to scrap the team and rebuild from the ground up for trick room as that + fake stall is kinda just too much for one team. I'd swap it for glare or transform.
sleep talk over surging on dozo. You basically break everything you want with jet, and need the PP since you aren't a super strong breaker on your own. Being a sitting duck for two turns with just rest isn't great either. Plus you're going to be resting off burns from contact a lot so Surging's power doesn't really offer a lot of benefits.

glisc would really like to be something that can block wake, because right now the team folds to it. It also isn't contributing to your fake stall plan? Swords dance Lando-T can fill a similar role (albeit without some of the special bulk) while also actually threatening to sweep teams. I'd go basic Lum berry

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Lum Berry  
Ability: Intimidate  
Tera Type: Ground  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
- Swords Dance  
- Dragon Ascent  
- Precipice Blades  
- Shore Up / Taunt

Taunt 4th is a cool option that can punish some ins and support a dozo sweep as well, while shore up helps bluff a more defensive set and also gives you some longevity to set up on stuff like opposing lando after intimidate.

rabsca is basically useless. dropping it for smthn like calm mind primarina would shore up the wake matchup, and also give you another sweeper.

TTar's moveset isn't one I like very much, you'd probably benefit more from the standard dex set if you're invested in it, but ting-lu might actually fit what you want here better, since you can more comfortably run an actual offensive set.

Ting-Lu @ Weakness Policy  
Ability: Vessel of Ruin  
Tera Type: Dark  
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD  
Adamant Nature  
- Knock Off  
- Sucker Punch  
- Precipice Blades  
- Stealth Rock

is a fun one

my final suggestion is to drop weezing-g, not only is the set not super coherent here (wisp + toxic spikes don't synergize well, no healing), but something that could run an offensive set like pecharunt would again fit the fake-stall theme. Sammyce has a very cool set that I've stolen, but here's a revised version of the team that I've made for you https://pokepast.es/03464631e27689d6, this does seem like quite the cool concept in stab though so you'll have to tell me how it feels in tests!

@lunar mural

[lunar mural]

thx for the analysis and revised team version!

I don’t have any problems with the new sets, but I still want the team to look the part of a stall team (Lando-T and Primarina don’t really look the part [imo], even for semi-stall) so what replacements could I maybe look for if it doesn’t work out?

I’ll def test this version firsthand but I’d like to know in case I don’t manage to catch a grip and want/need a change or two

[mint crypt]

lando is actually a stall staple in stab! Prima not really looking the part is fine, Wabsorb clodsire could fit a similar role as it also checks wake, but stacking that many weaknesses with the rest of the team isn't great. Offensive slowking/slowbro could also work, albeit they aren't rated very highly for a reason.

Slowbro @ Kee Berry  
Ability: Oblivious  
Tera Type: Water  
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD  
Modest Nature  
- Steam Eruption  
- Nasty Plot  
- Photon Geyser  
- Slack Off

[lunar mural]

dang I didn’t know that lando was actually meta-relevant in stall teams on stabmons, the more you know! I think I’ll hold onto Primarina for now because fairy is a great type if not the greatest anyway. thx for the help 🫡

[mint crypt]

intimidate with lando's general versatility and bulk will do that

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/eb79b358e11abc50 roost me

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[mint crypt]

torkoal is a bum run goat venusaur, uhh wake doesn't want specs dragon fang / lorb to delete pex is better, your tusk loses to every single physical wall u prob want it to be rocks/fighting move, ice spinner, headlong, rapid / thunderous kick / shore up with protective pads - last move is kinda whatever u want just feel it out on ladder.

bolt wants lorb + solar beam and clanging/spacial rend over fickle beam, eject hatt is fine but I personally like air balloon more, Hatt desperately wants teleport though, like port+mblast/dkiss+nuzzle/moonlight+lumina. Mfire is like ok but like why mfire their wall when you could be teleporting into the brokens

and I already said it but torkoal is a bum and u want the goat growth + malignant + weather ball + EP/matcha gotcha/like seed flare venusaur

[gray crane]

what's the specfic set for wake?

[mint crypt]

Walking Wake @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

• Hydro Steam
• Clanging Scales
• Knock Off
• Flip Turn

wait no knock over weather ball

[gray crane]

idt there is room for a last move, it will basically just a normal tusk set

[mint crypt]

kk, u really really want ice spinner tho on like every tusk set

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/4834422bb0031c54

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gray crane]

i feel like one ground type isn't enough for 4 mons weak to electric

[mint crypt]

yeah you get wiped by rbolt or thundy

make tusk ting-lu and torn-t like offensive hydrapple and ur pretty chilling

[gray crane]

wait should I make pex av with those changes?

[mint crypt]

nah ting + pex u got is fine

[gray crane]

I meant like ting being the only special wall while having 3 physical tanks feels a bit weird

[mint crypt]

oh it's phys leaning no av I can't read

yeah you can make it av

skarm also really wants beak blast over Idef though

[gray crane]

btw what set should I use for ting lu

[mint crypt]

Ting-Lu @ Covert Cloak / Lefties
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

• Earthquake/Precipice Blades
• Knock Off
• Stealth Rocks / Parting shot
• Shore Up

is the basic set

if you're making pex av then you can drop torn for like cornerpon

[gray crane]

thought you said hydra

[mint crypt]

hydra also works sorry I'm sick so I'm a bit all over the place

and also thinking about like 3 different possible new versions of the team you've sent

[gray crane]

it's cool, so like both are good neither way?

[mint crypt]

ye

[gray crane]

brainstorming

[mint crypt]

yeah

[gray crane]

I feel really torn between rocks and parting shot like I DEFINITELY need rocks but parting shot feels really good

[mint crypt]

if you run cornerpon you have saxe asw

so it frees up rocks on ting

[gray crane]

oh yeah sd set right?

[mint crypt]

aqua cutter is also like lower damage than surging still afaik (tho it doesn't proc helmet 3 times) so it's up to u

[mint crypt]

I kinda hate sdpon because you have severe 4mss

saxe grav are the only 2 moves you really need

and you can run like u-turn,bulwark,sap,encore,pyroB,bitter,sd

and taunt

[gray crane]

damn forget this thing can learn the moves of other pons

[mint crypt]

yeah it's a very versatile mon

[gray crane]

Ogerpon-Cornerstone (F) @ Cornerstone Mask
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Grav Apple
• Stone Axe
• Pyro Ball
• U-turn
  I'll be going with this ik I probably need a utility move but corv is really annoying

[mint crypt]

honestly prob sap 4th over turn

cause you can just sap walls down to go back to spamming pyro/grav

team isn't hurting for pivots and you don't have a lot that can instantly threaten anyway

[gray crane]

burning bulw should do the same job right?

[mint crypt]

bulwark is nice asw

spreading burns on stuff for ghold is cool

oh ghold should be the bulky set probably

I already said that

[gray crane]

I got destroyed by banded tusk so many times so I'd love to burn it

[mint crypt]

banded tusk isn't real

who is running that 😭

[gray crane]

idk I don't want the team be overly slow, ghold is usually the sweeper so I wanna run it as fast as possible

[gray crane]

I'm getting addicted to the format so I might post teams kinda regularly, also quick question in HO what's generally better hs or screens?

[mint crypt]

hs?

[gray crane]

fast hazard setter

[mint crypt]

o, both work

u can kinda run both thanks to hamu tho

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/dff8074a2dd970f0 this absolutely sucks but I tried

[orchid grove]

For what it is, it's fine. Iron Crown is more of a mon for Screens than the standard HO archetype though.

Heavy Slam on Zama isn't hitting much, and I would more often go Substitute to better dodge Poison from stray Mortal Spin, Scald, and shut down Clear Smog.

The only thing you might slot Heavy Slam for is Valiant, but this team already has it covered pretty hard between Ceru, and Ghold, but even without them I wouldn't recommend it. It has far less of an impact than Sub does on a game to game basis.

[gray crane]

so overall the team is good?

[orchid grove]

I would drop Crown for something more consistent on this kind of archetype, and change Heavy Slam for Sub on Zama, but otherwise, yeah.

I think Plot Thundy gives you a lot more leeway into Lando, which can otherwise 1v1 a lot of the mons here, and Thunderclap just being helpful to be packing in general.

If you want to get really greedy, Mental Herb and Lunar Dance/Healing Wish > Psycho Boost is also something you could do over Deo-S.

[gray crane]

oh yeah I've seen the set, altough I prefer sash to make sure at least both screens are set

thundrus or the therian one?

[orchid grove]

Therian.

Incarnate's a good Band Breaker, but doesn't really do anything here.

[gray crane]

ok thx for the help

[mint crypt]

don't forget Gweezing and sylv! but ye sub is better imo

[orchid grove]

Crazy that I spent so long gassing up GWeezing, just to forget it exists when it finally won getting on the VR.

Hah.

Gassing up.

GWeez.

[orchid grove]

Sorry GWeez. You're still my Shifu pairing goat...

[mint crypt]

yeah gweez is really cool, only annoying thing is u gotta kinda run another physdef alongside it because you just barely don't beat a bunch of physical attackers with chip and it's hella annoying 😭

I've been running gweez + zap a lot which pair super nicely

molt also works

hell basically any bird lol

[orchid grove]

I usually go WashTom for the Ground immune, and Water resist, but on fatter teams, birds are excellent.

I've especially enjoyed GWeez + Plot Torn on fat.

GWeezing in general relieves a lot of pressure for balance, and I would still argue that it's pretty underrated. Moonlight is awesome to finally have on it.

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/f1f646d0e70e67f9

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[shrewd spoke]

surely power whip is dogshit

over flower trick

[gray crane]

is good actually but still generally less damage then powerwhip although I'll wait for an expert thoughts

[shrewd spoke]

it's 8 less bp than power whip

for 100% accuracy

we used to debate over this in bh

[gray crane]

isn't the crit boost is 50%?

[shrewd spoke]

wait oops i mistook it for wicked blow

[gray crane]

it wiill be like 105

[shrewd spoke]

still idt 15bp is worth the accuracy drop

[gray crane]

I mean it's definitely not bad really being able to break throw id setters is good but still powerwhip isn't bad either

[shrewd spoke]

i think unless if theres a relevant roll you need to get you just take flower trick every time

[gray crane]

although to be honest I kinda prefer wood hammer but idk if it's good

[gray crane]

so you think is wood hammer decent?

[real osprey]

flower trick is restricted, I would recommend ivy cudgel though on band rilla

[mint crypt]

Ivy Cudgel breaks every relevant wall wood hammer would break

idk why tran is power gem tho, just run like fiery dance/blue flare/armor cannon

[gray crane]

a surprise to severely damage flying types

btw what do you think of the team, I feel like I'm a bit weak to ground

[stiff temple]

https://pokepast.es/2e2f4eda4427fe7d
I tried to build hazard stack.

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Balanced Hackmons RMT @shrewd spoke, @oak topaz. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rare oak]

not really a bh player but chansey should probably have 0 atk ivs for sap

[shrewd spoke]

im not sure what scarf blaziken is doing here

[stiff temple]

Force switch

[shrewd spoke]

band is better at doing that

scarf blaziken is mostly a thing you'd see on offense to rk specific mons

also ability shield on eternatus is kinda redundant because there hasnt really been any moldy/sunsteel users who u rly want to wall

[stiff temple]

I want to counter normalize flutter mane

[shrewd spoke]

you can run revelation dance on celesteela that does the same thing

or steelceus

yeah actually idk why its tachyon cutter on steelceus here

wait its good as gold i didnt see that nvm LOL

that already checks norm flutter as is so u dont rly need ashield

it would rather run like black sludge or boots

(and +spe too)

[stiff temple]

And what other mon that I need to fix next?

[shrewd spoke]

i feel like both ur celesteela and ur chansey are pretty passive as is

you can probably run like knock > dtail on celesteela, ruination > circle throw on chansey and some other move (denergy comes to mind first? it just needs to punish imposter) over knock on etern

[stiff temple]

That’s all right?

[shrewd spoke]

i guess

it probably struggles into volt spammers like zam and offense in general but /shrug idk if thats fixable without changing out mons

[pine ridge]

1 question, mega ray is still allowed on ag and not just natdex ag right

[oblique chasm]

Megas are dexit'd in SV, so it's disallowed in SV AG

SV AG rates would be more of a https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1208795569649356820 thing in any case

[pine ridge]

what tiers r actually playable with mega ray actually being usable

[mint crypt]

pure hackmons!

[oak topaz]

Non NatDex? Pure Hackmons, Formemons, Balanced Hackmons with custom banlist

[umbral lava]

Hey @gray crane, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexbh. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[gray crane]

whops wrong channel

[gray crane]

ig technically wasn't wrong

https://pokepast.es/4bb29e89631a6be5 wanted to try using this chein pao tech my friend show me, although I feel like I need something for the normalize ghost types

[umbral lava]

Hey @gray crane, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexbh. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[shrewd spoke]

this should be bh not ndbh

actually um

[shrewd spoke]

this has ndbh moves actually go to #1060037469472555028

[gray crane]

I'm so dumb😭

[pine ridge]

fah

other then those

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/400dec46b613c4f2 is this good for a starter?

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @gloomy elm, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sacred oriole]

Yes, this is a really good start and you could win games on ladder with it right now. A few small notes:
latios tends to be better with Specs. It’s easy to force out and relies on Draco, so it can’t usually set up much, and specs Psyshock 2hkoes most of the regenvest that would try to switch into it

You don’t have a good Zapdos switchin, which is very common on ladder

But very good first attempt

If you’re struggling with anything specific, let us know

[gray crane]

I feel like set up is important so I don't get walled and about zap I feel like that can be solved with switching tusk with treads but I'd leave that to your opinion, also mind if I asked some questions?

[sacred oriole]

Treads over tusk could work well here yeah

And sure feel free

And tbc I don’t think the LATIOS set is bad; I’d prefer Specs here personally but Calm Mind is still good and if it’s working for you that’s great

[gray crane]

still didn't try the team at all, although what set for treads I should use?

[sacred oriole]

Bulletproof leftovers is probably what I’d run

Moves are very flexible but something like rocks / spin / volt switch / earthquake

[gray crane]

feel like knock off is needed for regenvest shenanigans

also btw in the specs latios set should I use trick or flip turn?

[sacred oriole]

I like Trick last on Specs

Provides more setup control, lets you ditch them against teams you don’t need them, and the number of times I want to flip turn is very little

I’d rather click Draco / Psyshock / Luster

Knock is very good on treads too, fair to slot it over any of those moves

[gray crane]

ok, generally what are the common/good regenvest mons in? and what's the one that I'd likely struggle with on this team?

[sacred oriole]

The one you’ll struggle the hardest with is Regen Ting-Lu, since you have to Draco it and don’t 2HKO

You do still outdamage regen but barely so it takes a bit

Physdef mana is more common and also a bit annoying but still manageable

Most of the rest LATIOS blows up

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/1b445fcdb83a01fa good for a starter?

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Mix and Mega RMT @real osprey, @pliant coral. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pliant coral]

You're missing 4 EVs on Mage but otherwise the team looks solid on paper (at least for pre-ZA stones that is as I am still learning MnM + ZA stones 😅)...a bit of an issue against Bulky Waters so you may be better off with Luc Bolt > Regieleki and possibly running Spikes > Pain Split on Mage and then a Spin set for Tusk (like Pinsirite or Metagrossite)

As for newer threats, I would say this team may struggle with common Zygardite users such as Dragapult and Deoxys-Speed since it doesn't have priority

And the team is only so-so bulky so Luc Bolt alleviates this a bit with Thunderclap but if you could fit in an -ateSpeed user somewhere that would be worth imo

[gray crane]

So generally the team is fine?, also dumb question what is luc bolt

[pliant coral]

It is a good start for sure.. Just may be a bit outdated with the new stones and stuff

Luc Bolt is Lucarionite Raging Bolt mb

Raging Bolt @ Lucarionite
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 20 Atk
Modest Nature

• Draco Meteor
• Thunderbolt
• Thunderclap
• Volt Switch

[gray crane]

also yeah forget to ask wdyt of that corv set, I love the bulk and it's generally doing fine but is the well-baked body and volt absorb better?

[pliant coral]

I assume you meant to ping @sacred oriole as I do not play AAA :x

[gray crane]

wait... god my focus is negative, sry for that 😔

[sacred oriole]

hello

both WBB and Volt Absorb are good

[pliant coral]

Lmao you're all good. I'd help if I played but UT is the AAA god so whenever he responds trust him

[sacred oriole]

depends on rest of team needs

[pliant coral]

Speaking of...hiiiiii

[sacred oriole]

gm

[gray crane]

my team has a lot of steel types I have treads for the electric immunity but i still idk if I should make corv wbb or keep it fluffy since I have prim

[sacred oriole]

Treads is a bit dubious as the electric immunity since on ladder you're mostly worried about Zapdos

who just Weather Balls you

[gray crane]

also yeah is destiny bond good on pech? thought it would be good to stop sweepers with prankster db

[sacred oriole]

Prankster Pecha should always be running Destiny Bond yes

Recover / parting shot / destiny bond / attack of your choice is standard

usually malignant chain, but shadow ball and night shade are also good choices

oh just checked the om cord, is this the team we're talking about? https://pokepast.es/31e7647cb6237dca

then yeah you don't need volt absorb here

[gray crane]

ok, btw is focus blast decent in psyshock place since lati already does the job of breaking stall

[gray crane]

ye

wanted to see other people's opinion

[sacred oriole]

Then yeah you don’t need volt absorb

No guard heat wave still fucks up treads, but it also gets Corv too

Adaptability 100% should be running Shadow Ball

Trick scarf should be trick / make it rain / shadow ball / one of your choice

I am actually a fan of Recover last, it’s nice to help stick around in long games when you trick away scarf

also on Tinted Latios, I am a fan of double psychic stab over thunderbolt

Luster is much stronger once you have handled their regenvest

if you're doing Hadron, Thunderbolt should be last yes

[gray crane]

it was that, made a mistake

[sacred oriole]

neither Psyshock nor Focus Blast really hit that much

it's kind of to taste

[gray crane]

won't that just get walled by grim?

[sacred oriole]

Grimmsnarl?

[gray crane]

ye

[sacred oriole]

that is not a viable mon in AAA

if you're playing a team with Grimmsnarl, you are likely to win anyways

[gray crane]

ohh ok, still feel like something like ting lu is a annoying

[sacred oriole]

Ting Lu is annoying for Tinted Latios yes

probably your worst common matchup

you have to draco it every time and barely outdamage regen

[gray crane]

oh yeah btw is surf good instead of ice beam on prim?

[sacred oriole]

Ability: Regenerator  
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD  
Relaxed Nature  
IVs: 0 Spe  
- Flip Turn  
- Moonblast  
- Psychic Noise  
- Surf```

I usually run this set, unless I need a specific coverage move

Draining Kiss is too weak to really recover much, and moonblast makes it much less passive

ignore that it's physdef you have pecha and fluffy corv

[gray crane]

fluffy become wbb

[sacred oriole]

still probably fine

[gray crane]

ok thx a ton

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/8fe8b55cad3a7604 roost my team

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sacred oriole]

Do you mean to be running teal Ogerpon

[mint crypt]

Ogerpon -> ogerpon-cornerstone same set, sturdy is realistically more useful than defiant for a set like that, and 1.2x move power is fantastic. If you're dead set on running normpon, sash/Lorb is probably better. Tusk is not it here, Zama does basically a very similar set but better + this tusk crumples into the good physical beak blasters anyway. Ghold probably wants destiny bond + air balloon over recover since your goal is to get plot and click big moves, and ting muscles past you through reflect so you'll probably get more life out of destiny bonding ting or something else. I'm not a grimmsnarl believer, it's C for a reason, deo-s or alotails set screens better and can do more stuff alongside it. Finally, ceru should probably be swapped for Urshifu-R b/c your weavile matchup is atrocious.

I realize I never actually sent my message 😭

[sacred oriole]

I guess Defiant is nice to have but I’d imagine Rocky is still better

[mint crypt]

rocky is def still better

ur getting defiant off to still die to lando

[gray crane]

didn't even know ursh is allowed in here

also what set for ursh

oh yeah in zama's set which is better sub or heavy slam

[mint crypt]

sub is usually better, Wursh runs Punching glove sd, surging, jet punch, thunder punch/close combat max atk ada

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/7480e7e25990e502 people is this good? Idk which one to use helmet on

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[orchid grove]

Rocks > Pshot on Ting to free you up to run Knock on Cornerpon.

Other than that, I think you defo want something faster here in general as well. Rilla's prio only gets you so far.

Could make Ghold Scarf, there's a lot of overlap between what that checks, and what you already have covered.

[gray crane]

if so then I should turn oger to sd right?

I would still need set up

[orchid grove]

You could, but Grav Apple's main appeal is to allow Corner to apply pressure without having to take turns to set up, and be more immediately threatening into more passive teams.

If you do go SD, swap it for a stronger Grass move.

Ogerpon-Cornerstone (F) @ Cornerstone Mask
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Power Whip
• Diamond Storm
• Knock Off
• Swords Dance

I like this a lot.

[gray crane]

wouldn't I need some sort of recovery to abuse sturdy?

like horn leech

[orchid grove]

Not always, Sturdy is more of a bonus than something you need to actively be abusing to make Ogerpon Cornerstone worthwhile.

If you can keep it up, great! If you don't, it's not a huge deal in most cases.

[gray crane]

ok I'll test both sets, other then that is there more blind spots I'm not seeing?

[mint crypt]

you don't need a setup.

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/01db7b7c4996fa6c this was my first team ik it's already been rated but I've been really struggling against corv, especially corv+tusk duel how can I improve that mu

[mint crypt]

get rocks up, plot on corv in, hydrap can be spacial if you want since that 2hkos corv but otherwise you spam fickle until they either beak blast you to death and hamu can clean the weakened corv or you get enough "going all out/crits"

[gray crane]

it just feels tough if it has a complementary partner/s

[gray crane]

oh yeah forget to ask about pex and corv having both rocky helmet, is it fine or should I switch, also about knock off on coger feels unnecessary since I already have two knock off users I feel like bitter blade is better

[gray crane]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9stabmons-2547881178-b9rfkr5lqkp9gr8043k3b9glxfgxqqopw a noob vs another noob who wins? but my god my rng is hell, hope I didn't do TOO many dumb moves

[mint crypt]

run pyro ball or fire lash, they're non contact so you won't get burned by beak blast/lose sturdy to helmet

[oak topaz]

Did you mean sacred or torque

Bc lash is contract

[real osprey]

don't run blazing torque, just overall worse than sacred

you preferrably want pyro since it cleanly ohkoes corv after an SD / 2hkoes without it

[oak topaz]

But the pp and accuracy

[real osprey]

Pp is irrelevant here & if you're scared about accuracy not always being in your favour pick another mon

[mint crypt]

sacred mb LOL

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/84d1c23eda219b44 roost this

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[mint crypt]

plot -> trick on ghold, otherwise it isn't terrible. Bolt MU is pretty bad tho since nothing switches in well and sylv doesn't outspeed. Birds also cause issues for most of your team since you have no way to prevent healing and gambit/rilla really struggle to break them.

imo drop kingambit for like washtom since it helps w/ weavile and mamo while also pressuring birds, and make sylveon defensive to shore up latios mu

[gray crane]

to be honest I did change the whole thing, although it seems a bit passive for me

https://pokepast.es/88de225b00aedb4a this is what I got

[mint crypt]

freeze -> burning bulwark

broken move

you don't make great use of sand rn and struggle to wake, so imo drop tar

latios or bolt or thundy-t look pretty good here

[gray crane]

which one specfically

[mint crypt]

they all kinda fit

[gray crane]

what sets?

[mint crypt]

specs tios, cm/specs bolt, plot thundy (or if you're cool you can run band incarnite)

pex could also be tspikes over haze for some cool shicanery

just means you have to play more aggressive against zama

[gray crane]

okay then, btw what do you think so far about my teambuilding? I feel like I'm a bit bad at it since I'm kinda used to a movepool I already memorized but now I have to take for an account a lot of possibilities

[mint crypt]

S'pretty fine

you're learning the tier

[gray crane]

oh yeah also on tios set what should I make for a last lot, aura sphere or shadowball?

[mint crypt]

clanging, psystrike, flip, tbolt/gknot/trick

tbolt for birds, gknot for ting, trick to punish both and open routes for your other guys

sball/aura sphere probably don't do too much for your team

[gray crane]

ig I'll go for tbolt, ting is not much of problem to me and most of my team are support/tanks

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/809d94f50774115d getting addicted to this format

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gray crane]

also quick question is 99 pex a thing?

[mint crypt]

you can't really break birds with this team. special waters annihilate this team asw. Make lando 252/252 jolly because idk what that spread is even for but it kills nothing. Weav should probably be band, then maybe swap pex for slowking since it helps weav break through stuff.

[gray crane]

shouldn't something like banded weavile solve the birds problem?

[mint crypt]

ye it helps

[gray crane]

oh yeah what about rock slide on lando and make ting rocks instead of parting shot

[mint crypt]

eh

ting should be rocks

lando can work as second defogger to support weav, sedge also works but weav hits all the sedge targets

[gray crane]

there is already 2 other removal

[mint crypt]

I was sayin swap pex for slowking but if you're keeping pex then lando can do spikes/second rocks/sedge

[gray crane]

what set for glowking specfically

[mint crypt]

regenvest serupt flip fsight lumina

[gray crane]

won't I need a poison stab?

[mint crypt]

what?

slowking

the water one

[gray crane]

oo ok

btw is scald good as replacement? the shaky acc and pp are not appealing when it's point isn't hitting hard

[mint crypt]

sfine

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/487f000785d72243

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @gloomy elm, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gray crane]

feel like I'm a bit weak to zap

[gray crane]

;-;

[sacred oriole]

I feel like this team will usually be behind in the hazard war

Mono treads for both your hazards and removal (and a treads that can’t spin against Pecha and has no significant recovery) means it’s going to be hard to keep the field even neutral

And you have several mons (especially Deo and Moon) that would rather play ahead in the hazard war

I would think about looking at Ogerpon’s slot here

[gray crane]

something like wbb corv?

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/0b5d609135390741

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic canyon]

do you play every format

it’s very impressive

[gray crane]

not EVERY format but usually never stick with just one or two

[atomic canyon]

every OTHER format mbmb

[gray crane]

although most of the time I'm playing natdex uber

[atomic canyon]

ru good at it

[gray crane]

between 1400 and 1500 elo so I'm decent

[atomic canyon]

tuff

[gray crane]

although sometimes it's hillarious since generally the format is a bit of a meme, you will see random teams a LOT

[mint crypt]

knock -> swords dance on pon, exca should be either soft sand, lum, or pads with shore up over rock blast

[gray crane]

I wanted to try this tech to not be completely walled by flying mons

[mint crypt]

ttar would probably appreciate boots over smooth rock asw, exca is more of a revenger than a breaker anyway so sd is mostly to clean up teams that pon + bolt soften up

[gray crane]

aka the birds

[mint crypt]

corv skarm still laugh at you, washtom eats it up, you really only hit zapdos/molt

+2 252+ Atk Excadrill Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 176-208 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- approx. 0.6% chance to 2HKO

[gray crane]

oh yeah quick question is there a good shift gear user?

[mint crypt]

case in point

[mint crypt]

not off the top of my head, could probably pull something with jirachi or crown for stored power

[gray crane]

is something like metagross good?

[mint crypt]

mid but workable

[gray crane]

quick question is stall any good in the tier?

[mint crypt]

decent, but you're better off running bulky balance over full stall

it's mu fishy

[real osprey]

no considering the move's restricted

[mint crypt]

oh ty bonk

[real osprey]

[gray crane]

oh ye completely forget, sry about that 😅

https://pokepast.es/e8ff5abb350ad598 this is SUPPOSED to be bulky balance (I think)

[tranquil pendant]

https://pokepast.es/e75538f389d794aa
half of ts team was made on a whim so uhh. idk im tryna make double weather work. also debating on scarfed or specs latio

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @gloomy elm, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gray crane]

@mint crypt if you're not busy can you help with this?

[mint crypt]

ghold should probably be infernal parade but otherwise it's probably ok

[gray crane]

ok thx a ton

[gray crane]

AAA experts is moth beads of ruin good?

[sacred oriole]

it's fine; generally I would do SFLO but beads is still fine

[sacred oriole]

I don't like Grassy Surge Ogerpon in this economy; Grassy Glide isn't very strong and has poor coverage

I would consider a more classic amp ability on it

I would also consider a more sturdy physical wall than moltres, prank pecha as your only physical check is pretty tough

maybe do SoR Ogerpon and Intimidate Corv?

[tranquil pendant]

oops i forgot a spinner too

[tranquil pendant]

lwk i havent seen intimidate in so long i forgot it existed

[exotic vale]

https://pokepast.es/4007f23c0768159e

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @gloomy elm, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sacred oriole]

Protean Deo-S is usually mixed with knock and fighting move

So you can draw in special walls and remove them

Also means it’s usually paired best with other special attackers that appreciate the RegenVest being gone

Actually making Primarina Specs here could be that partner

Fluffy isn’t very good on Pecha; the moves it tends to struggle with the most (Ivy cudgle and earthquake) are non-contact

I’d go intimidate here

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/10ad16262930ad4a feels bad

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @gloomy elm, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sacred oriole]

You do have regenerators, so that will be a problem

[gray crane]

wdym?

[sacred oriole]

You can only have one regen per team

Ting and Prim both havevregen here

[gray crane]

ohh yeah mb

what should I replace who with who?

https://pokepast.es/eb3b2ac7da276bc5

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[shrewd spoke]

Why did it turn from an aaa team to a stab team 😭😭😭😭😭

[mint crypt]

looks ok. Ceruledge should probably be a zamazenta though

[gray crane]

that was a whole other team

[gray crane]

why?

[mint crypt]

b/c ceru gets hard trolled by every good wall and zama can bully it's way through MU's it shouldn't

[gray crane]

ohh ok, also what's with the username? 😭

[mint crypt]

wdym

[sacred oriole]

Easiest replacement is Prim to Empoleon

Gets you a slow water pivot, just with manual recover

Can slot rocks, phasing, or knock as desired

[gray crane]

what set specifically

[gray crane]

the pfp makes me hungry

[dusk pasture]

tbh wouldn't replacing lu probably be easier? prim already serves as a pretty fat dark check anyway

i will say the team looks very passive and slow and dedicating 5 mons to ur defensive core isn't generally advised

especially since you're running a treads/prim core here which is very volatile vs stuff like specs ghold/latios/moth

[sleek merlin]

run psychic noise over Ice beam on Primarina, ice beam doesnt really hit anything that your stabs don't whereas p noise lets you deny heals and hit stuff like Iron Moth.

[gray crane]

huh? wdym?

[sleek merlin]

as @dusk pasture said, replace Ting Lu with something like Roaring moon

or something with speed control

[gray crane]

prim already has p noise

[sleek merlin]

Woops misread it, still replace ice beam, energy ball or surf are preferable

surf so you can hit Corv

Ice beam doesnt hit anything that your stabs + pnoise dont

[gray crane]

scarf?

[sleek merlin]

you could run scarf rmoon ye

also replace foul play on pecha with night shade or shadow ball, you want consistent damage, foul play as the primary damage source is detrimental

[gray crane]

AAA experts why is magic bounce banned?

[oblique chasm]

As everything would be able to have Magic Bounce, it's quite punishing to scout and leads to unhealthy interactions by rendering status moves a glorified gambling game

[gray crane]

point taken, my god I didn't think about it

[sleek merlin]

Magic bounce basically invalidates status, hazards, etc... It is just an unhealthy ability when everything can run it

[sacred oriole]

it's just more swingy than other abilities, especially with regards to the hazards game

it would be like if you used Earthquake on a levitate mon and it hit you instead

[gray crane]

AAA experts does anyone have a good stall team (if the archetype is good even) I can try out? kinda struggling to make one

[sleek merlin]

There is one posted recently by Galiegoesboom https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/almost-any-ability.3710568/post-10868075

They are the "staaall" expert

[gray crane]

interesting 😈

thx a ton btw

[gray crane]

btw is that page for posting teams?

[sleek merlin]

Yes you can post your team and explain your thought process or ask questions there

[untold hornet]

https://pokepast.es/5fa862e51aa9fa14

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Balanced Hackmons RMT @shrewd spoke, @oak topaz. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[untold hornet]

idk how good fairy ceus is in terms of improofing pdon

so i got scald

[shrewd spoke]

headlong rush isnt sheer force boosted

[untold hornet]

do i go ep

or buldoze

😭

[oak topaz]

you have too many offensive stuff

[untold hornet]

er maybe i take out etern?

i didnt know what to do with that slot anyways

[oak topaz]

nah theres no way you can ever say that people always want to run like 8 mons on a team

groudon is 100% not improofed they switch in click sap go out you have a dead slot

[untold hornet]

gourgei-

bounce fairyceus?

but without fc it seems wacky

or bounce etern but i have to play mindgames

[shrewd spoke]

u can also just drop sap

[untold hornet]

Groudon-Primal @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Pyro Ball
• Bolt Strike
• Diamond Storm
• Headlong Rush

(idek what this thing can run 😭

[oak topaz]

not sheer force probably

well you can but you need to be ep

and idk how good that is

you lose on some good coverage options like glance

so you have to be ice beam on sf

which isn't bad but yeah

[untold hornet]

what alternative offensive abilties r there?

[oak topaz]

sword of ruin, desolate land, teravolt, magic guard, tough claws etc

sf is fine the set was just not

[untold hornet]

imma stick with sflo with ep and ice beam then

[cloud mason]

(hopefully this is the right thread) https://pokepast.es/dd16a92b8811ee0b went into pokebilities aaa because i saw potential in offensive cinderace which ive wanted to try but know little about the tier, any help would be appreciated

[umbral lava]

Hey @cloud mason, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9pokebilitiesaaa. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[pine ridge]

https://pokepast.es/ecce996325efb846

[umbral lava]

Hey @pine ridge, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen7vgc. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[oblique chasm]

You'd have better luck asking in https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059704283072831499

[tranquil pendant]

https://pokepast.es/4aa7ba722064b8b1
Pokeabilities aaa team

[umbral lava]

Hey @tranquil pendant, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9pokebilitiesaaa. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[tranquil pendant]

was thinking to switch treads to bproof

[gray crane]

no an expert at all but I don't think it's a bad idea, you have two mons that can hardwall water types and one that directly threatens them so you should be fine

also forget some evs on mola and ting

[tranquil pendant]

yh i changed it

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/4bfdb21ea62323e3 how can I make this better?

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[mint crypt]

this is literally a previous team you sent with the edits I suggested.

[gray crane]

Ik but I feel like it's a bit lacking in something, I don't like 3 whole lo users that eventually die out

[mint crypt]

you can make wake like dragon fang, but it's a sun team. You really don't expect to have longevity since your goal is set up and burn through the opponent's team while sun is up

[gray crane]

is the idea of one of wake or bolt being specs really that bad?

[mint crypt]

it's more that you burn turns and momentum

lets say bolt is specs, you click clanging scales and get a ko, now they send in their fairy/bulky steel and you've not only lost a sun turn but given your opponent positioning and momentum on a team that really hates losing momentum

[gray crane]

can I add something like growth to venu?

[mint crypt]

oh venu should be growth I missed that

you should be either matcha or ep

this team beats pex pretty well so probably over ep

[gray crane]

ok then

still what are the things that I would struggle with?

probably like sand teams I think

[mint crypt]

sand obvs

opposing sub wake can be scary

[lunar mural]

https://pokepast.es/791ec31d1ecc16b3
thought of Sky Attack Talonflame. its an insane T1 nuke with +1 Priority 140 BP STAB move that can flinch and has a high crit ratio, that THEN uses the item to go into a 110 BP STAB move if need be. went from there tbh. i dont think this is optimized though, please help me out

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[shrewd spoke]

yo why is ting lu 0 recovery

[lunar mural]

oh i subbed whirlwind for shore up and changed EVs in a later ver, must have sent an old one hold on

ok fixed the link

[mint crypt]

ivy cudgel > horn leech, farigiraf really wants to just be a toxapex, hatterene should either be future sight over photon, or just swapped for slowking, in which case you should make farig defog corv.

talonflame concept is cool, but you probably want pyro ball over bitter blade

your issue is kinda just 252+ Atk Talonflame Sky Attack vs. 248 HP / 128+ Def Toxapex: 106-126 (34.9 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Talonflame Sky Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 142-168 (37.1 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

even if you don't get hit with intimidate

you break nothing

[lunar mural]

i def need another way to take down those walls then

[mint crypt]

are you dead set on talonflame

[lunar mural]

i built around it so ye

[mint crypt]

then something like band / hdb swords dance is kinda your only option

rilla / ghold / slowking-k / ting / corv or zapdos will support it fairly decently

[lunar mural]

farig is just for the niche of court change, wish and teleport all at once. has a lot of roles in one
and fs hatt is probably better bc of nuzzle speed control

[mint crypt]

toxapex does farig's job better

except for like wish

• you won't be wishpassing very often since the set is super exploitable by ting and like every other breaker in the tier

[lunar mural]

ye that’s fair, sad that I can’t get wish but farig is ZU for a reason and toxa is more optimal

[mint crypt]

farig can do stuff with like take heart boomburst recover

but that's not really a set you want here

[lunar mural]

I think I can go HBD swords dance since talonflme is 4x weak to rocks and can still break with SD

[lunar mural]

sounds like a cool set but ye doesn’t fit, might wanna experiment with that later

[exotic vale]

got it

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/8a37d57b27fc13ee how bad is this

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @gloomy elm, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[dense thistle]

https://pokepast.es/1cf9ff406c3f8bb4
AAA

[gray crane]

your whole team gets destroyed by electric mons, make corv volt absorb fire types already get nerfed from the rain

roaring moon ain't cutting it either

[sleek merlin]

I will say once again, Foul Play is an odd choice for Pecharunts only offensive move

also Rocky Helmet Pecharunt IMO is superior to HBD, guranteed chip damage is progress

it allows you to just switch into corviknight and get that nice damage

consider running stealth rock over knock on treads

you already have knock on rmoon

[gray crane]

usually went I switch it on a physical powerhouse it insantly OHKO with foul play if they're not bulky which is why I prefer it

[tranquil pendant]

https://pokepast.es/e0af2f15ffe527dd
Pokeabilities aaa team. Its been doing decently so far but i feel it still needs tweaking. Any thoughts/ suggestions

[umbral lava]

Hey @tranquil pendant, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9pokebilitiesaaa. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/34f7df3918d9b4b5

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @gloomy elm, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sleek merlin]

Not sure I like Ogerpon with grassy surge

too easy to wall with any steel

grassy surge waterpon or firepon even rockpon is probably the better choice

Even then I think Trailblaze with desoland for firepon and primsea for waterpon is probably better

[gray crane]

if I went with firepon what should I make heatren as? earth eater?

or to be fair I'm thinking of water absorb since I do have decent switch ins for EQ

[sleek merlin]

EE or lev works, bulletproof would work as well among other things

just change solarpower to something else or switch Heatran for something else

[gray crane]

solar power ;-;?

[sleek merlin]

beam*

[gray crane]

taunt or earth power?

[sleek merlin]

earthpower

taunt if you want to break stall however

[gray crane]

btw trailblaze instead of powerwhip?

[sleek merlin]

you rarely use grass stab, trailblaze lets you setup a sweep

[gray crane]

does the team manage against stall ?

[sleek merlin]

you'd have to outplay them but yeah it could beat stall

[gray crane]

the immunity abilities mindgames is hell 😭

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/531dee0867a398be this sucks af

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Balanced Hackmons RMT @shrewd spoke, @oak topaz. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[mint crypt]

you forgot your improofing

[gray crane]

what?

[oak topaz]

These sets are not very good

I advise joining the om cord and use the bh channel for more active discussion and such

I also advise using and understanding samples

Even though samples are currently lighter in quality restrictions they are still generally ok

[shrewd onyx]

imposter proofing

making sure your team doesn't lose to your own pokemon

[upbeat pebble]

https://pokepast.es/bbe46af4f6578280 for VGS (I'm pretty sure this is the correct category) the main lead is Kilowattel and Iron Bundle

[oblique chasm]

I'm sure you're looking for https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059704283072831499

[upbeat pebble]

your right my bad

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/4749bdbb9a4dc5f0 let's hope THIS time it's not horrible...

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Balanced Hackmons RMT @shrewd spoke, @oak topaz. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[oak topaz]

Sets are dated and mono wincon triage kartana is disastrous

[gray crane]

you mean outdated?

[oak topaz]

Yes that’s what fated means

Dated

[gray crane]

to be fair half of them I come up bc I literally can't find sets for most mons on smogon

[oak topaz]

Yeah I’ll give feedback in omcord as others can chime in but just identify which ones are useful advisors

Be particularly cautious about this hallward guy

[gray crane]

who ;-;

[oak topaz]

The guy who responded to you first

[severe thorn]

no, and wrong channel.

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/80dd2d5c0b798657 people I don't know if I posted this team since it's been a while since I've locked at it, is it good for a beginner

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Mix and Mega RMT @real osprey, @pliant coral. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sleek merlin]

Lunala doesnt really need ice beam, honestly, run stabs either psyshock or future sight. You already have Magearna which is a decent answer to Dragonites which you can pivot into with Lunala safely.

Run max hp on Hooh, it needs those stats in order to handle Zygardite special attackers.

Swap spectrier for a water resist or ghost resist / immunity. Or something faster for some well needed speed control such as regieleki which also doubles for hazard removal.

[gray crane]

ok then, roaring moon for spec spot?

[sleek merlin]

up to you, Rusted Sword Rmoon is pretty decent

but not really that fast pre-dd

[gray crane]

what's the set for it specficaly

[sleek merlin]

DD / Iron Head / Dragon Claw / EQ

or roost over EQ

[gray crane]

okay then, do you have any suggestions for that spot like other then roaring moon

[pliant coral]

So first off I feel like your Ho-Oh spread is not ideal like it mainly runs defensive investment to have an easier time against those PixiESpeeders/Zygardite attackers and to have more staying power and the team doesn't feel it properly supports offensive Ho-Oh.

Secondly, agree with Gia about giving Lunala Future Sight or Psyshock as Ice Beam is unnecessary when you have Magearna

Ghost resist is nice but not super necessary however the team does need some speed control so an AteSpeeder of some sort or Eleki like Gia said would go a long way to helping make the team faster

Could actually try Deo-S > Lunala if you want to go more offensive on the team overall but then you lost a bit of physical tanking so definitely tinker with slots

The base of the team itself seems solid and ofc rn MnM is a pretty volatile state with Champions revealing Mega abilities + its release next week

[gray crane]

yeh speed is definitely needed, but since I'm likely replacing spec I would set need a set up mon

which my opition is like roaring moon

[pliant coral]

RMoon's issue is not being that fast until after 1 DD which can be hard to set up

Hence why Gia's suggestion of Eleki is nice for immediate speed control

I also think Deo-S > Lunala can help alleviate the speed control issue but ofc that is more of an offensive team

[strong blade]

https://pokepast.es/720076fa68be3224 @echo lodge

https://pokepast.es/ea452aecc7e27fca @tawdry geode

[shrewd spoke]

why did neither of these ping

[mint crypt]

great question, anyway

New [Gen 9] Mix and Mega RMT @real osprey , @pliant coral. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[mint crypt]

.

[mint crypt]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @gloomy elm, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sleek merlin]

First off, Hadron Engine doesnt effect flying types. It is worthless on Thundurus. Run something else. Probably Latios with Hadron or Sandy Shocks.

Honestly the team as a whole is kinda a mess, and this is coming from someone that is known for "gimmicks".

Swampert with Sapper sipper is kinda meh you generally prefer regenerator + assault vest. Ogerpons/meow while good arent nearly prevalent enough to warrant sacrificing your ability and Swampert without regen isnt really worthwile to use honestly.

Iron Leaves is also a very weak choice, if you really are gonna run it you'd definitely want SD life orb with Psyblade / Leaf Blade / Stone Edge. Even then it isn't an amazing pick as if it runs into Corv it just kinda bounces off of it, X-Sciscor does nothing for it. Think about using another mon as a surge surfer and run Sharpness instead.

Grimmsnarl is just a really weak Pokemon in AAA, you use it for at most what it does in other tiers aka screen setting against pecharunt / corv your set basically achieves absolutely nothing and doesnt even beat Latios as it usually carries thunderbolt and has very weak defenesive stats.

Azelf is okay but mystical power is kinda meh run psyshock so you can better break regeners (run SR over Energy Ball.

Weezing-g is okay but kinda a waste in general as there are mons that do what you are trying better .

As a whole the team lacks synergy and is using extremely niche to outright unviable stuff in ways that dont maximize what you are trying. As a balance team you have no defensive core, as a bulky offensive similar but lack great offense, as a terrain team again no synergy.

I suggest running a hadron setter (Latios) + Iron Hands with an SD or Belly Drum set and Surge Surfer as a start for a terrain team. Feel free to ping me here or OMcord.

[mint crypt]

ty gia

[sleek merlin]

Similar to the AAA team break down, your MnM team uses a bunch of basically unviable stuff that is outclassed by another. Understand if you want to really climb to top of ladder or improve you need to use better stuff or have expectations that some elements of you team will not perform as well as another.

Example Magmortar as a special fire is generally outclassed by Iron Moth who can do exactly the same thing while hitting harder, having Fiery Dance, recovery, better typing, faster base speed, and so forth.

Lilligant-hisui issues are its frailty and despite the typing change loses stab on fighting and is still booped by common espeeders. Only benefits honestly gained from Meganiumite are Solar Blade charge and type change, but the primary stat gained from Meganiumite are specially offensive. This means you won't be hitting that hard without some serious setup which only a bad opponent would let you get that far and even then revenge killing with a token espeeder wouldnt be difficult what with pinsirite / salamencite dnite being common.

Don't run Dragon claw on Dnite ever, run Liquidation or Waterfall (I forget which it gets) as it gives better neutral coverage, if you want you can get rid of eq and run roost for some setup opportunities and the ability to abuse multiscale more.

Not sure the purpose of Zarude, but Dark / flying isnt a great typing in MnM with the prevalence of stuff like alt regieleki or magearna.

Thundurus is okay I suppose, may as well use Thundurus-t though since I dont think reg thundy gets enough speed to outspeed 390 thus the additional power of therian would be preferrable.

finally there are better steels out there with recovery or more benefits provided, in addition aggronite gives steel typing thus you can pick from a selection of non-steels as well.

[sacred oriole]

Hadron Engine does affect flying types, but they don’t get the terrain boost on Electric moves specifically

They do get the flat 1.33x boost to all special moves still

[sleek merlin]

Ah I wasnt 100% sure if it gained half the amp or not, point still stands, there are better setters especially ones not weak to SR.

[strong blade]

i get my spa boosted tho?

ah ok

selected mortar solely for solo fire typing

yea i was thinking about changing lilligant or her stone .she was js there cuz i wanted to test out mega sol but im still lookin for her replacements

selected regi cuz of bulk and solo steel typing

cuz i feel like agnite on sth like tink wouldnt be too useful

hm actually that could work

with spdef invest

its still annoying that gigaton isnt supereffective against flying or steel

why is lopunnite legal wth

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/1a22e28ecaf91562 pivot spam

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/163e6459761c038e

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gray crane]

SHOULD be semi-stall

[mint crypt]

looks p good, pex could probably be a little more offensive with malignant/steam over haze to not be so passive. Skarm can probably be body press over spikes asw, punishes ttar (and a few other strong mons) hard b/c otherwise it can spam annoying moves into you.

[gray crane]

ok between wdyt of the blissy set? is flamethrower good as an only attacking move?

[mint crypt]

I'd probably swap calm mind for something else, namely transform/glare, but given that you're using it to hard-wall ghold it makes some sense.

[gray crane]

oh yeah something do you feel that one hazard control is enough on the team?

[mint crypt]

You have enough boots and a tspikes absorber idt it will hurt too much if at all.

[gray crane]

also quick question with ting lu's ban are the samples kinda outdated?

[mint crypt]

yeah council is working on that I'd expect

[gray crane]

oh ya I probably should ask that in the main channel but why was ting lu banned? I haven't played the format long enough to know but for my experience is wasn't as oppressive

[meager drum]

https://pokepast.es/330d8170299489dc

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[meager drum]

prob doing too much here but idk i like the concept

stacking up on sweeping water types to overwhelm the enemy

one frail and fast one snowballer

[sleek merlin]

I'd say your team is too much of a mix of HO elements and balance elements and am unsure if it works together.

I think the manaphy set can remain as a late game setup sweeper but the blastoise is definitely something you'd see exclusively on HO teams.

I suggest something for fighting types if you go the balance route and replace it with the blastoise slot.

consider hadron engine or tinted lens on latios as well

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/5872f866c3bf73c3

[meager drum]

anything about the other mons?

I'm a bit iffy on having roar on molt but I don't really need roost per se

it's a nice scouting tool in my mind if they throw in their wbb metal birds or whatever

[sleek merlin]

Uturn is standard on MGLO Moltres as momentum and WBB Corviknight / Gholdengo is a potential thing you'd run into.

Roar is more for defensive desolate land sets and is rarer then weather ball / flamethrower, uturn, wisp (or coverage), roost

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/0971809425689830

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[mint crypt]

Mauled by latios

I’ll give a more in-depth review later but hands also gives you major problems

[gray crane]

probably bc of no dark types...

[mint crypt]

All your special walls crumple to psystrike

[gray crane]

maybe something like specially defensive mand?

or even heatren

wait... TTAR

completely forget this thing exists

[languid elbow]

6 minute cook lol https://pokepast.es/fde27897f9149a3a @echo lodge

[shrewd spoke]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[timid meadow]

Looooool

• not sure how I feel about double birds, Moltres could probably be replaced in general with something a bit more offensive since only real breaker is moon
• Pert should be av regenvest, if you wanna keep rocks as a 4th move that’s fine but should probably put it else
• Prankster Pex can be max def max HP, also should want boots or rocky helmet.
• Rocks/Body Press could be options for Tusk
• Not the biggest fan of outrage unless cleaning teams on moon

I’ll let others chime in since it’s midnight for me

[sleek merlin]

swap swampert for meloetta for better neutral special defense, or at least put vest on swampert, you dont have the leeway to run no vest.

Change Iron Head to EQ or Stone edge on Roaring Moon, iron head only hits scream tail which gets hit hard enough as is. Outrage can be swapped for both as well.

Run Headlong or EQ and bpress on Tusk, and replace knock off with Smack down. Also invest more in defense (you havent invest at all which is the purpose of fluffy).

The Pecharunt is a mess, run night shade / dbond/ parting shot / recover. Never forget the recover. Toxic is not worth it on prank which will inevitably have to face dark type switching into it like rmoon and you want the neutral coverage of night shade to harass stuff when runnning pecha.

consider running uturn on zapdos for more momentum and invest in some speed up to 294 or 301 (for gholdengo and great tusk respectively)

[rustic blaze]

standard team, consistent 1500+ https://pokepast.es/1ca6fa3e900a402c but what can i improve? scream tail is annoying, especially cm, offensive prim is annoying, and the team kinda struggles with stall if they can beat coba

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sacred oriole]

The main thing you need with scream tail is something that can one v one it, or outspeed and KO

There’s a few different ways you could go here; you could make Hoodra your regen, you could replace moon (or Zapdos) with Ghold or iron crown

Both also help against Primarina

That Coba set should be really good into stall, as long as you’re patient. What kind of stalls are you losing to?

[rustic blaze]

i think i remember some guy running water absorb skeledirge, i also remember losing to some other stall a while back idk

[sacred oriole]

You can still pressure Skele by volt switching a lot

Since then it takes damage and can’t recover

Especially if you can knock it with pert or moon

[sleek merlin]

@rustic blaze against glalie stall which is basically the only good stall, I recommend making sure to pressure the prankster bond Pecharunt without ko-ing it immediately as it will just destiny bond and trade to remove the cobalion usually.

also this may be a preference thing, but I prefer uturn on zapdos over volt switch, VA corv is super common and being denied a switch is a big loss of momentum against stuff like swampert. In addition, the chip damage against SE targets is nice like Regen Rmoon (fairly common) / meloetta (rarer but not unheard of).

Other then that the team is standard Balance, and pretty good, mostly nitpicks on our part in terms of criticism.

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/faaf430a15525344

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[mint crypt]

looks p good, could probably go geist ghold to beat clod but otherwise looks ok

pex could drop spin for malignant you have a spinner and a fogger so the extra offensive pressure could help wear down breakers

[gray crane]

to be fair thought that spreading poison while still spinning is better bc pex is generally not doing much damage neither way

[mint crypt]

you're doing 30-40 to most offensive mons which is pretty nice

[gray crane]

ok thx, btw is the stall mu good?

[mint crypt]

stall isn't a fantastic style overall in stabmons so I wouldn't be super worried about it, ghold beats most stalls that don't have blissey, and as long as you play a little aggressively washtom/heattom aren't too scary

[blazing lotus]

https://pokepast.es/d953bc2670fbb501

[umbral lava]

Hey @blazing lotus, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9championsvgc. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[severe thorn]

Am I actually hearing glalie being good on stall?

What?

Couldn’t imagine something with those stats and typing be good on stall…

[real osprey]

glalie in this context is a user

the ice ball will remain unviable sadly

[rare nexus]

https://pokepast.es/bad9f59d53aa0039

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rare nexus]

Is there a way I can improve my zamazenta match up without drastically changing the team cos I’ve found it to be very good so far

[sacred oriole]

easiest way is make the Skarmory Fluffy

and the Zapdos PSea

[timid meadow]

Skarmory ~> fluffy
Zapdos ~> Prim Sea

damn

same brain cell

[sacred oriole]

basically the same team but way stronger into Zama

also, please make Swapert Specially Defensive

it is not bulky enough to be tanking hits with 0 SpD in this economy

[timid meadow]

tran could also be taunt or wisp over sub

[rare nexus]

What move would I swap weather ball for

Roost?

It’s probably the move I click the least

[sacred oriole]

you don't need Weather Ball per se

there are a lot of options

you can run any two of Weather Ball / Thunder / Hurricane with Roost and U-turn

you can do Weather Ball / Hurricane / Volt Switch / Roost

you can do 3a Roost, or 3a U-turn (probably my least favorite option)

[rare nexus]

Hmmm I’ll see which I like more

So far i basically never use roost

Should i change earth power for utility move instead

[sacred oriole]

keep in mind PSea has more defensive utility than No Guard did

so you might find yourself switching into weak attacks more and wanting to recover off

[rare nexus]

That’s fair

Is it cos of the fire immunity

[sacred oriole]

yes

Earth Power is fine on Tran, but I might consider replacing Sub with Rocks and giving Skarm an attacking move

[rare nexus]

I really really like sub protect heatran tbh

I might swap earth power for either rocks or taunt

[sacred oriole]

that's fine too

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/889d48dca8a3c999

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[mint crypt]

hleech -> pwhip or grav apple leech hp kinda pointless for ho like this, esp with forretress, rilla -> ival. rilla is breaking nothing like that, and the prio is honestly probably less useful for you than a booster speed ival.

[gray crane]

to be fair I thought rilla for the situations of IF they get ride of webs I can still sweep with rilla

also what set specfically, sd or cm?

[sacred oriole]

https://pokepast.es/6515d697c2ade5e9 @tame sandal am I doing this right

[tame sandal]

you dont exactly have a good fire mu

eg you lose to moltres

id probably go like intim pecha > sinis and maybe a bproof treads > corv here personally

[rare hare]

AAA ⛽ ?? https://pokepast.es/c6ce8f939bd43e94

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sacred oriole]

Excadrill is the only actively bad set here

Prank Pecha should always have dbond, let’s you trade off with bad matchups

Scarf Ghold really likes an amp ability like Adapt; I would replace Excadrill with something that provides ground immunity / resist

Something like Fluffy Corv if you still wanted removal

[rare hare]

malig over toxic, dbond over foul?

[sacred oriole]

That works

[rare hare]

cheers

[sleek merlin]

Malignant can work but Night Shade gives better neutral coverage.

[tame sandal]

part of the reason why pecha is so annoying its that its hard to find a good switch that isn't scared of malignant and doesnt give a free switch (essentially just gambit non choice moon and vest lu kinda)

night shade makes it much more passive

would not recommend it here

[sacred oriole]

https://giphy.com/gifs/pokemon-pokeball-pokemonswordshield-corviknight-S3PcfvzNurPdvqA7SJ

[tame sandal]

corv gets parting shot on is the thing

[sacred oriole]

Clear Amulet Corv

[tame sandal]

i ran dazzling deos just to catch prank pecha once

it worked, i lost the game though

[livid flame]

https://pokepast.es/3c6b88406193f9bc

[umbral lava]

Hey @livid flame, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9pokebilitiesaaa. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[gray crane]

that's a thing 😭?

[sacred oriole]

no

I am memeing

[sleek merlin]

Hard disagree, the moment you know it is mono-malignant it becomes highly abusable and arguably more passive.

You really can't deny this point, Night Shade does nothing regarding passivity, it allows you to hit basically everything barring a rare glalie stall blissey or regenvest meloetta. You are basically admitting you are a parting shot bot at that point which can be further abused with any token dark type.

Without Night Shade it is extrordinarily easy to abuse it as it is limited to 8pp move that has immunities on top of another 8pp move.

Might as well run a different mon at that point.

You are sacrificing any offensive potential with mono-malignant imo basically

since it is that crippling of a choice

Regenvests can't be punished at all for example

aside from prim

the reason night shade pairs so well with destiny bond is that you can spam it inbetween turns thus get assured damage, malignant isnt assured at all, it is both an rng check with whether you get the 50/50, has low bp, etc....

anyways end rant

[sacred oriole]

both night shade and malignant are valid on dbond

Malignant lets you fish for poison (which still punishes regenvests) and avoid getting stalled out of DBond by mons with setup + recovery, since you'll still toxic them at some point and put them on a timer anyways

night shade can last much longer in long games and do more consistent damage, but you still aren't really punishing regenvest unless you hit them twice

ultimately prank pecha is going to lose to something, so just keep that in mind any build your team to handle what it loses to

or build non-prank and carry two attacking moves

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/5cd6b4e19ed23658 this feels like it sucks

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sacred oriole]

Volt Absorb Corv should be SpD generally, and probably lefties over helmet

Ghold doesn't really need Air Ballon if you have two immunities on the team

could do Colbur if you don't want a choice set

I don't think Weezing is doing a lot for you here; you already have fighting immune and resist, you already have defog, you already have ground immune

I'd conversider another speed control option or pivot in his slot

[dusk pasture]

if you're going to run heatran, though i dont think you should since it's not very useful i would probably run at least power gem for the moltres matchup as your mu into it is very weak

[gray crane]

to be fair I wanted another physical tank so corv would not get overwhelmed

[sacred oriole]

Volt absorb Corv is not a very good physdef guy in general

Way too many strong physical attackers, it really wants fluffy or intimidate

But you also have physdef Prima to help soft check them, especially the choice guys

And Ghold makes banded Zama think hard about what to click

[gray crane]

what should I do then?

[dusk pasture]

https://pokepast.es/f0b1e516529fe61d
https://pokepast.es/b75329120f9c94fb

came up with some disparate changes

main issues i can see are that 1. moltres is a terrible nuisance for a primarina team and the team has no check and 2. specs ghold will run you down

removing heatran is generally what id do but in case you want to keep it bulletproof makes it somewhat useful at least for checking gholdengo pretty well

aside from that prima -> mana and then running some hard fighting check in weezing slot also works which is what i tried for one

wbb gambit is an also an odd pick that semi helps with both of these cases though i will say the mon kind of sucks

i dont think stacking fighting resists with primarina is a bad idea though since primarina isn't particularly sturdy and would like help in checking phys threats (ala fluffy lando since gambit lets it in)

messed around with making corv physdef and heatran + some other zapdos check (though i struggled on that part...)

you can change out zama for some other stronger speed control, prankster pecha and priority makes it somewhat palatable on these pastes but it's not really necessary tbh maybe as like a gambit soft check?

i kept specs ghold in all these teams since it worked pretty well in providing an immunity for cb zama but you dont need it and can commit to zama physpam stack if you want

[dusk pasture]

scarf rmoon is an ok option and it also helps as a sball resist/deo-s check though it's not particularly great either

moltres is just a real nuisance since you kind of want a hard check but it's tough to full commit an answer

though it's not impossible to play around if you play really aggressively and your other teammates chase out the moltres (i also generally went boots > cb so you can reliably threaten out molt) but it's a bit scary

[rare hare]

Always got that clear am on me

[rare hare]

Yeah I'm typically pivoting out of pech quite fast

Currently running corrosion pech prankster Incineroar core

With AV Regen swamp

[rare hare]

Banded tinted lense first imp haxorus 🗣️

[sleek merlin]

if you are gonna be using a first imp mon use slither, isnt a consistent mon but better then haxorus

[gray crane]

https://pokepast.es/84c652c69f23ba82

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] STABmons RMT @orchid grove, @mint crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[orchid grove]

This looks good, but I would go Rapid Spin > Rock Slide (It doesn't hit much of anything besides Zapdos, and you'll appreciate the hazard control with no boots on this six), and Jolly > Adamant on Drill to outspeed Ghold outside of Sand.

Gambit might be a threat, but aim to keep Cornerpon, and Drill healthy to live a Sucker Punch in those games, and you should be good.

[gray crane]

to be fair didn't want triple removal since it felt too much also I didn't want drill to be completely shut down by corv

[orchid grove]

You are getting shut down by 90% of Corviknight to begin with, since Defog on Corvi is so unreliable due to Ghold, they mostly would rather run Iron Defense variants anyway.

And you have Ghold, and Cornerpon to be able to pressure Corviknight.

[gray crane]

also about the ghold set should I stick with this or just go moongeist/ full spa and spe?

[orchid grove]

You could do either, I think that's mostly up to preference. Albeit I think you might appreciate the insurance into Valiant more with PhysDef on a team like this.

(Specifically Specs rips you to utter shreds otherwise if it's packing Tbolt.)

[gray crane]

doesn't it fold to knock off 😭

[orchid grove]

Physical variants you got Pex to go hard in on. Specs/Mixed is better dealt with by Ghold.

On a team where everything is otherwise slower (outside of Sand), or folds immediately to it.

[gray crane]

wait, how can I even know if it's either physical, special or mixed ;-;

[orchid grove]

Generally there's no immediate way to find out for sure, but you can usually get an idea of what Valiant might be doing based on their preview, or other sets on their team.
Booster Energy is almost always an immediate tell of Swords Dance, Calm Mind is just not good in this tier, and every other set prefers a power boost from another item.

[gray crane]

ok then thx

[orchid grove]

That said, I think Scarf Ghold can also work here to have something reliably fast outside of Sand, and might be your best route, since you have Pex to deal with most variants of Valiant, and can outplay the rest.

[gray crane]

interesting I'll test that out, should I go psyshock or focus blast?

[orchid grove]

Focus Blast is my first thought for catching a Kingambit switch, and Trick is probably its best last slot regardless of scenario.

[meager drum]

https://pokepast.es/1f067e4504fe8845

[umbral lava]

New [Gen 9] Almost Any Ability RMT @sacred oriole, @dusk pasture, @timid meadow. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[meager drum]

this team feels so clunky and awkward to use and idk why

[sacred oriole]

Manaphy is very out of place here

that's a one-time setup set usually found on HO that is on an otherwise balanced team

[shrewd spoke]

surely u run like energy ball over alluring voice too right

[sacred oriole]

I'm not a fan of Fluffy for Garg; using your Fluffy sot on something that still loses to Zama and is earthquake weak is a bad use of resources

[real osprey]

you'd drop ice beam if anything for eball/psychic

[sacred oriole]

or Stored Power

[shrewd spoke]

does alluring hit anything relevant over ice beam

[real osprey]

zamazenta & regenvest moon mainly

[shrewd spoke]

i feel like you just nuke zama w scald no

[real osprey]

unrelated but it should def be surf as well over scald

[sacred oriole]

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 271-321 (83.3 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

not OHKOing when it OHKOes back is a big deal

[shrewd spoke]

damn i didnt know manaphy was ass like that

[sacred oriole]

100 SpA doesn't go very far these days

especially with no amp ability, mid BP moves, and can't even cheese Modest cause then Proto doesn't work

anyways, if you want to keep the Manaphy set, you should re-tool around an HO team

if you want to keep the bulk of the team, replacing mana and garg is a good start

[real osprey]

or make it like motor drive at the very minimum

[sacred oriole]

oh on Latios, I really don't like Tinted Scarf

I would do Hadron or Adapt if keeping Scarf

Tinted really needs Specs power to hit its benchmarks

[meager drum]

i see

[sacred oriole]

anyways, I think tweaking either of those directions will make the team feel less clunky

[meager drum]

okay

should i go back to my other concept

cm armor sp

[sacred oriole]

that's still going to fit better on HO than here

[meager drum]

i see

[shrewd spoke]

should be take heart btw

🥰

[meager drum]

i want to use manaphy as an explosive finisher

but its so clunky

[sacred oriole]

it can work on screens HO just fine

both double dance and proto tail glow

[meager drum]

i mean as a piece for this balanced team

but guess it just doesnt fit

darn

[sacred oriole]

but those one shot sweepers are pretty unnatural on balance

[meager drum]

im down to just axing it

[sacred oriole]

balance really struggles to dedicate a slot to a wincon and field the rest of the meta with five slots

[meager drum]

but then i got to rely on sinistcha for big dmg

[sacred oriole]

Moltres and Latios are no slouches

espeically if you replace mana with something fast, then you can do Specs Latios

and he drops bombs

[meager drum]

should i just tack zama on

feels like thatd solve like at least 3 of my problems

[sacred oriole]

adding Zama rarely makes a team worse

[meager drum]

my team has a problem

and uh

yeah not a good one to have

[sacred oriole]

you have regen treads

just call out the weather ball