#Smogon Doubles Rates

1 messages · Page 21 of 1

plucky elm
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Is this better

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Re rate anyone?

elder island
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sash bundle is fine but u need protect

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also cloak or sash pao

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based on evs

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cause priority sunny day

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also moon can be lorb or anything else

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roseli is not helping that much for a 4times weakness

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also weakness policy bolt isn't great cause in case it activates u will be dead next turn

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and tera fairy is better on bolt

plucky elm
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Btw my leads are tornadus thingy and raging bolt

peak crypt
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Rather than try to fix what’s here, it might be better to take the parts of this team you enjoy and start from scratch

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So to that end, what parts of the team do you like the most?

elder island
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

elder island
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can this work??

torpid moat
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gweez only fits on certain offensive teams really rather than defensive

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while hazard stack needs to be very careful about matchup vs things like hands and lando

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hazard stack also needs real finishers and mons that force switches instead of more defense

elder island
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so what should i changed??

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how about i drop geezing

torpid moat
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you'd need to drop at least gweez and comfey

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comfey is a gimmicky healer only good to support setup mons

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as for the rest, maybe just chien pao + dragonite would be the easiest swap

elder island
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

elder island
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how's this team??

rose juniper
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id say that it looks fine (besides for the Dnite's nature)

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have you already tested the team?

elder island
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in a battle

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i forgot the nature

rose juniper
elder island
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i have seen a lots of glim and sand teams

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so i went clam

rose juniper
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yeah youre indeed quite weak to rocks, both the type and the entry hazards

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idt that rock types are that big of a deal tho since they are quite rare

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stealth rocks however

plucky elm
elder island
rose juniper
plucky elm
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I really don't know what to add on to this team

shrewd iron
rose juniper
shrewd iron
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I suggest to play ogerpon heartflame for big damage in sun

rose juniper
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its mainly SR id look at

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if you don't wanna swap out any mons you could put taunt on torn to atleast stop rocks from going up

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but I think rillaboom could be swapped out for something to help deal with it

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you could go for removal with glimm or go with offensive pressure to try and prevent it that way with for example lando

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but if you really wanna keep rilla while adding another mon id swap out bolt

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@elder island

elder island
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this team is for ladder

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can it work??

elder island
rose juniper
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either glimm/other removal or offensive pressure against rock types like lando

rose juniper
elder island
rose juniper
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youre a bit weak against stealth rock but its not an auto lose nor super common

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so you could also keep the team how it is

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or just put taunt on torn

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just kinda depends on how much you wanna change vs how resiliant you wanna be against SR

elder island
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and boly

rose juniper
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not saying you have to remove that

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since youre cloak you could also consider dropping tect, while nice its not neccery in the way TW and bleakwind are, but as I said its all about compromise

elder island
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how about wake over bolt??

rose juniper
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yeah could also work

elder island
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spe booster wake

rose juniper
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I wouldn't go booster if you already got sun

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then id personally rather take something like lorb

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but if you feel better with booster then do booster

elder island
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but spe booster from sun

rose juniper
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oh like that

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yeah for sure go speed

elder island
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i will try it out

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see how it works

rose juniper
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👍

elder island
rose juniper
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wdym?

elder island
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👍

plucky elm
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How would you fix my team?

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I just wanna see the difference tbh

elder island
plucky elm
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I wanted to see how others would change it

elder island
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cause i don't think u have experience to make your own

torpid moat
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for example if you wanted diancie + sun, the main comp would be diancie/torkoal/iron hands trick room core, and then maybe adding some supplementary stuff like walking wake and scarf lando i

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if you wanted to do tailroom, I'd make the roaring moon a tailwind setter instead with booster energy, and remove the sun part

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and maybe add some middling speed stuff like ursaluna-blood-moon that would appreciate the speed control

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that's why arctic was asking which part you cared about

elder island
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spatk booster or spe booster wake on team with tw??

torpid moat
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always speed booster

elder island
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ok

plucky elm
elder island
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with torkoal i think

torpid moat
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diancie/torkoal/wake/firepon/indeedee-f to start, say

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maybe lando t last slot

elder island
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can torn run any other attk than bleakwind cause

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80% acc is ass

plucky elm
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I see

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Thanks yall

stiff sleet
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hi, would DUU rates be under "Other"?

normal aurora
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i think you can still post duu in here

stiff sleet
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oh neat

stiff sleet
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the idea for this DUU team here is honestly steeped in Pokemon favoritism, but brute bonnet bothered me. standard Amoongus gets to be much better in way of having multiple ways to stay alive and provide the best status effect in the game via a free item slot and regenerator, as well as giga drain if you run a more offensive set, but brute bonnet doesn't get those. it basically HAS to run booster energy to get value out of it's ability, and then you're down an item slot. and it's not like you cant run giga drain on bonnet, but it's going to suck and slow it down by requiring more EVs and a move slot [or more than one] so i figure if it cant heal itself i need something that can as well as deals damage. Clawitzer does that and has typing synergy as well, and bonnet can protect it via Ragepowder. i then stapled three other Pokemon i knew were strong + Pyroar on the team and called it good.

Brute Bonnet @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sucker Punch,
Stomping Tantrum,
Spore,
Rage Powder,

Clawitzer @ Life Orb
Ability: Mega Launcher
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Water Pulse,
Dark Pulse,
Dragon Pulse,
Heal Pulse,

Baxcalibur @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Glaive Rush,
High Horsepower,
Icicle Crash,
Protect,

Pyroar (M) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Unnerve
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Heat Wave,
Hyper Voice,
Snarl,
Protect,

Okidogi @ Razor Fang
Ability: Guard Dog
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 104 HP / 208 Atk / 48 SpD / 148 Spe
Jolly Nature
Close Combat,
Gunk Shot,
Drain Punch,
Protect,

Murkrow @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Tailwind,
Thunder Wave,
Taunt,
Foul Play

peak crypt
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I have some thoughts (mostly that some of these Pokemon, like Pyroar, are really bad)

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but I'm not really a DUU player so I'll tag @torpid moat and @brittle spade who have some more experience with the format

stiff sleet
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yh i just liked it as a anti gholdengo pick and kept it cuz idk how duu works

brittle spade
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there's no gholdengo in duu

stiff sleet
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i just figured id mess around im rating 1048 rn

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why no murkrow?

brittle spade
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because it has 300 bst

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and iron jugulis has 600

stiff sleet
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i thought prankster tailwind n stuff was op?

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or do a lot of duu teams have good counter play or smth

peak crypt
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Prankster Tailwind is great when either the user is also good or the power level of the rest of the team is high enough to make up for it

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Murkrow kind of stinks as an individual Pokemon and DUU doesn't have the crazy power level of stuff like Gholdengo

brittle spade
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you can give your baxcalibur clear amulet or dragon dance or swords dance

stiff sleet
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kk

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will do

elder island
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

elder island
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how do u use this sample??

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can anyone explain

peak crypt
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keep Trick Room up while clicking the move that does the most damage every single turn

elder island
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can u explain in detail

peak crypt
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this is hyper offense

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your job is to set Trick Room whenever possible

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and then click super strong attacks

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that's literally it

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everything else comes down to your own skill as a player and your ability to make risky decisions

elder island
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even twice a game

peak crypt
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okay so you've accomplished step 1

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step 2 is click all your strong attacks

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Eruption, Expanding Force, Facade, Diamond Storm, whatever is most likely to reduce the opponent's HP to 0

elder island
peak crypt
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it does a better job of setting Trick Room and then gets to steal an item

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and stealing Assault Vest from Rillaboom or Raging Bolt is a meaningful development

elder island
peak crypt
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there are four Pokemon on this team with TR

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if one of them suddenly can't click TR any more you'll probably be fine

elder island
peak crypt
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if you die to LO recoil you can't reset Trick Room

elder island
peak crypt
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Rillaboom, Pelipper, Tera Dark Amoonguss, Gholdengo if you screw up, weather move Tornadus, Incineroar, players over 1500 Elo, Imprison Farigiraf, any sufficiently bulky Snarl user, and anything that can manage to take two knockouts turn 1 (which isn't very many things tbf)

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this is about as hyper offense as you can get, there's not a whole lot of nuance or subtlety. you could probably hand this team to an eight year old and they'd do fine

elder island
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how's this

stiff sleet
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Im not qualified to give actual advice but I think u'd get more milage out of amoongus over rillaboom

stiff sleet
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Whats a good support iron jugulus set?

peak crypt
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Tailwind / Snarl / a Flying move of your choice / Protect with Booster Energy on Speed

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Jugs usually finds its home on Rain teams where it can use Hurricane effectively

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And the reason it doesn’t see much use is the competition with Tornadus is really steep

stiff sleet
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i wanna make a rainbow terrain team to use with meloetta in duu does anyone have some reccomendations?

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trying to make dark void from wish/temu lol

torpid moat
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assuming you're talking about fire+water pledge

stiff sleet
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NOOOOOOO

torpid moat
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and by dark void you mean relic song?

stiff sleet
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yeah

torpid moat
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yeah it's just a lot more simple to just run scarf rock slide dudunsparce

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with no pledges involved

stiff sleet
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Damn

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If only

main stag
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Hi, i want to get some help with my doubles team, is this the right channel to put it in? i accidentally was in the wrong channel before this

vale shard
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Yea

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Why trevenant

main stag
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to help set up hex damage for my mimikyu and for potential typing damage

vale shard
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Will o wisp?

main stag
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yer

vale shard
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But uh

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Can u send it again

main stag
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halves the attack damage and sets up hex

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yer

halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
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my companion in Christ, Mimikyu has base 50 SpA, why are you trying to use Hex

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(serious rate incoming)

vale shard
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Bro

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Change hr teras

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Kingambit kinda cooks u ngl

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Or like chienpao

main stag
main stag
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?

vale shard
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Change ur tera types

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That was a typo mb

main stag
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oh ok sorry haha

vale shard
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Why razor clas

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Claw

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On dragonite

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Use something like cband

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Actually im not sure what dragonite runs

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Loaded dice?

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For max scale shot dmg maybe

main stag
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oh sorry dragonite did have Cband, i put claw on there i when i was doing a random raid

peak crypt
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okay now that you say that I need to ask

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are you playing Doubles OU?

vale shard
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Dawg

peak crypt
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or are you playing the ingame Battle Stadium ladder?

vale shard
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If hes playing reg i😭😭😭

main stag
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in game battle stadium

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i think

vale shard
main stag
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i go to battle stadium then ranked

vale shard
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U need a restricted

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I dont play SV but idk if its set to doubles or songles

peak crypt
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You're looking for VGC rates

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The Battle Stadium Doubles ladder uses VGC rules

vale shard
peak crypt
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with that said though, Guesswhat is right - you cannot be competitive in that format without restricted legendary Pokemon

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yes

main stag
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ok so am i in the wrong channel again?

vale shard
peak crypt
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before you go there though, I need to be brutally honest: even if those Pokemon weren't legal, this team kind of stinks

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you've made a lot of pretty suboptimal Pokemon and move choices

vale shard
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Yea u get cooked by csr or cir

main stag
vale shard
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U need 2 restricteds for the ingame

peak crypt
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there are a ton of resources on how to use basically every Pokemon and which ones will be successful in the environment you're playing in

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and if you're looking for advice, the best advice I can give is to do your homework

vale shard
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Its pretty simple

peak crypt
vale shard
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Im just recommending

main stag
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i think thats probably where im struggling i thinks theres so much information i dont really know if im doing it right or not

peak crypt
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the best way to figure out if you're "doing it right" is to see what other people are doing

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you can also try to take things one step at a time

main stag
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well when i was researching i did find a website thats talks about how to build things like weather teams and stuff i think it was called game8, is that the sort of stuff i should be reading?

peak crypt
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This is a list of Pokemon that have proven successful in the format, roughly ranked by how good they are. Pokemon are nominated by community members to specific "tiers" and nominations are voted on by a smaller group of successful players

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never

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never ever

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use game8

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for literally any video game LOL

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it's so bad

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they frequently get their information completely wrong

main stag
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ok noted, treat game8 like the plague and dont go near it

peak crypt
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correct!

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they also have like 8 million ads on every page, that shit is cringe

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but yeah that link I sent is a good place to start

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some of the Pokemon listed there have individual pages with writeups detailing sets and tips on how to use them, what teammates they like, etc

main stag
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so i just looked at the link, so would i be right in saying that having amoonguss and grimmsnarl is ok, but i need to completely restructure everything else?

main stag
peak crypt
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a really good place to see successful teams is also Pokemon's official Youtube channel - almost every major tournament is live streamed and you can find the vods there

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plgx4HS0hpc

YouTube
The Official Pokémon YouTube channel
VG Day 1 | 2025 Pokémon North America International Championships

Tune in to catch Day 1 of all of the VG competition taking place at the 2025 Pokémon North America International Championships!

Championships Registration, Pairings, and General Info: https://pkmn.news/upcomingChampionships
2025 Season Regional Championships Schedule: https://pkmn.news/2025regionalschedule
Competitive News and Updates: https:...

▶ Play video
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this video is ten hours long. you don't need to watch the whole thing.

main stag
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thank you for the help i really appricate it

peak crypt
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no problem

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"getting good" at Pokemon is a way more daunting task than it seems, but the learning process can be super fun

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I got into competitive because I was using Smogon for sprites to mess around with in MS Paint and I just ended up reading the analyses because they were there, and eventually I got hooked and decided I had to try it out for myself

main stag
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well ive always like pokemon but was always a causal player, but since ive decided to give competitive a try ive been enjoying it way more, just found that the learning curve can be really steep just becuase theres so much infomation, and like you taught me just before there can be alot of bad infomation like with game8

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as someone whos learning would you say its a good idea to start by having pokemon that cover eachother in terms of type and then go from there? so like have a rillaboom, but then make sure to have ogrepon-wellsprings for water coverage?

peak crypt
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at a basic level, yes, you usually want your Pokemon to cover for each other

main stag
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ok cool, thank you

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i somehow had a feeling i was doing everything wrong

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hahha

stiff sleet
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DUU team, i saw a vid using future sight/chilly reception Slowking-galar, and i thought it was neat but not great so i thought why not put it in UU as a test run and paired it with two strong ice types in Bax and Bundle, and put on Luxray which could be a good intimidate user [ i wish it got fake-out ;-; ] with STAB in volt switch and fakey parting shot in Snarl, but I'm unsure, as it does fuck all against Garchomp (though it might make enticing bait for sacking? idk) and is at best "okay" and at worst "barely worth bringing" vs Heatran-tera-grass. additionally Tsareena doesn't seem to struggle vs Garchomp if i build defensive and tera-fairy/Play rough, but definitely suffers vs Hetran but the ability sounds sooo good, and grass helps vs some Ice type counters, and I then stapled on Jugulis without much thought. i also dunno what to do vs Psyspam teams [like Iron crown or Armarouge] , i have some stuff that helps like Slowking and Jugulis but i don't have experience yet. i think i'm fine vs rain teams as i can turn off rain and i have Tsareena and Luxray, Maybe I should run arcanine? or maybe ambipom to stop last respects spam and have fake out support? or tinkaton? [why is indeedee the only DUU-tier fake out user...] Thanks for reading :)

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Slowking-Galar @ Quick Claw
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 104 HP / 92 Def / 252 SpA / 60 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Chilly Reception
  • Future Sight
  • Toxic Spikes
  • Sludge Bomb

Luxray @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 88 Atk / 180 SpA / 240 Spe
Serious Nature

  • Volt Switch
  • Snarl
  • Thunderbolt
  • Supercell Slam

Baxcalibur @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

  • Glaive Rush
  • High Horsepower
  • Icicle Crash
  • Protect

Iron Bundle @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 92 HP / 164 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Hydro Pump
  • Aurora Veil
  • Icy Wind
  • Protect

Tsareena @ Assault Vest
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Impish Nature

  • Power Whip
  • Low Kick
  • Play Rough
  • Petal Blizzard

Iron Jugulis @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 92 HP / 104 SpA / 60 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Snarl
  • Tailwind
  • Taunt
  • Heat Wave
slow pike
#

!pokepaste

halcyon pantherBOT
#

Pokémon Showdown's team database is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply save your team to Showdown's database and you can share your team offsite by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team, scroll to the bottom of the team, untick the checkbox to make your team public, and press the button that says Upload to Showdown database.

You can then take the link to your team and share that link to share the team with other people.

This command will be removed soon please use !psteams or !shareteam moving forward.

torpid moat
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also there's not too much reason to use tsareena for priority blocking when you can just bring your own indeedee

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I will warn though that it's just way more correct to run abomasnow instead

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like an abomasnow/bax/moltres galar starting comp

stiff sleet
torpid moat
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I don't think it was ever good in natdex doubles either

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doubles and singles viability are completely separate

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but yeah aboma/bax/goltres is a strong veil comp

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pair with like mew and arcanine and it's pretty well rounded

stiff sleet
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thank u paint

torpid moat
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btw duu vr is here, there are several fake out users like tinkaton and scraft that aren't duu by usage

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Post in thread 'SV Doubles UU - Updated Sample Teams!' https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-uu-updated-sample-teams.3712825/post-9437169

Smogon Forums
Metagame - SV Doubles UU - Updated Sample Teams!

Big thanks to Jolly Togekiss ^-^ for this fantastic artwork!
What is Doubles UU?
Doubles UU, sometimes abbreviated as DUU or just UU in the context of Doubles, is exactly what it sounds like. It's a Doubles metagame in which the pokemon in Doubles OU by usage are banned.

Where can I play it...

main stag
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hey, is it possible if i can get an opion on this team? dont know if it needs to be from anyone specific like @peak crypt youre the only one ive really delt with https://pokepast.es/5527d903138b2cca

peak crypt
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this is a big step up from your first attempt but you're building in the wrong format

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you are looking for VGC 2025 Reg I

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and, consequently, the VGC Rates thread

main stag
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damn it sorry hahaha, should i post this in the VCG rates too?

main stag
main stag
peak crypt
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you might have been looking at analyses for past formats by mistake

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if you can think of any specific examples I can explain further

main stag
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so one example i saw was with Ho-Oh it says it can learn toxic, thunder wave and brave bird, but i couldnt get it to learn toxic or thunder wave at all

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thats why ive got some altered move set from the guides

peak crypt
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you might have been looking at guides from gen 7 or 8

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Ho-oh lost those status moves in newer gens as the TMs got removed; newer games tend to reset movepools these days

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it's 3 AM so I can't help with much else (oops)

shrewd iron
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@main stag can you send the guide you were looking at

main stag
main stag
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thank you

shrewd iron
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But still, this is a doubles rating channel, which is not VGC

main stag
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yer thats what ive done, i realise i had it set to doubles

shrewd iron
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Doubles is the official smogon format and uses 6 Pokémon and no restricted

main stag
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yer i didnt realise i was in the wrong one until artic mentioned it

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fair enough, thank you

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i noticed that for Sinistacha theres now sublinks for any Regs does that mean they are built pretty much the same way in any type of playthrough?

shrewd iron
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That just means that it didn't get an analysis yet

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Most of the time you can use the doubles OU one though

shrewd iron
main stag
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oh ok, thank you very much

unique horizon
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I actually kinda did wonder this before

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like idk if DOU is as easy to get into as VGC

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However, it's still the same pokemon and same synergies and stuff to a certain degree, obviously

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so like I guess some of the same stuff definitely applies where even if the spreads are different you'd still want to hit similar benchmarks such as having a Raging Bolt that can survive a hit from Chien Pao and stuff

normal aurora
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well I did start off in dou until I tried out vgc tbh

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I would say vgc is harder since you have to pick which 4 you are bringing

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instead of your entire team

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so I would say dou is easier to get into imo

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(Oh and ik this isnt important but vgc your pokemon has to be at lvl 50 which means you really have to think about where goes where instead of minmaxxing compared to dou and ou)

peak crypt
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there are more resources for VGC just because there are way more people playing it, but if you're used to playing like OU then DOU is way easier to get into

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bring 6 pick 4 is a pretty significant part of that (selecting the Pokemon I bring to VGC matches is still the part I struggle with most), but the faster pace of matches also results in more "do or die" moments compared to DOU

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more Pokemon inevitably means more turns, which means more decisions to make but also means more leniency for a bad play

shrewd iron
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Having 6 Pokémon rewards game planning

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It's another type of difficulty

peak crypt
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I don't think either really rewards long term planning over the other, DOU just has a longer window

upper cairn
upper cairn
torpid moat
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generally the best gross set is considered to be sub with mash/filler/sub/protect

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the garchomp should really prob just be an excadrill

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and then you'd prob run latios on that kind of sand comp

upper cairn
shrewd iron
peak crypt
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I can never remember the bot commands to pull up individual rules, but you can find the RMT rules here: #1373406929317269624 message

stiff sleet
#

does anyone have advice for palafin teams? i would think u would use a rain or terrain setter right? since everyone runs anti intimidate stuff now

peak crypt
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you probably just build rain and click Choice Band Wave Crash

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Palafin is really bad against Wellspring

torpid moat
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yeah the only setup other than rain I'd consider is bulk up drain punch on snow

brittle spade
#

you need to include kyurem or baxcalibur if you're building rain

#

or specs tornadus

pulsar bay
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rose juniper
#

I don't know what there is to say really, its not a good team but it is the best version you can prolly get of a fear team in doubles, so if thats your goal then id say it looks good

#

also do we only have 5 raters?

#

I thought we had way more

pulsar bay
#

my goal is to win fr

rose juniper
#

eitherway I suppose the only thing I could possibly suggest to add is something like a way to get sand up

brittle spade
pulsar bay
#

like if i switch donphan with chien pow or basc i can use priority moves to make them only have 1 mon and get another endeavor off

brittle spade
#

no, they don't, all this does is farm people who don't know how sturdy donphan work

pulsar bay
#

also chi yu gets rid of ninetails-a

brittle spade
pulsar bay
peak crypt
#

you have ruined many people's Doubles Ladder Tournament runs

shrewd iron
#

Your team is great for what it wants to do. Aka bullying player not really good at the game

#

I would say 10/10

brittle spade
pulsar bay
peak crypt
#

I don't mean that as an insult

#

I mean more you and this team are notorious

pulsar bay
#

i meant like cool because i didnt know that before

#

i lost like 1-3 last tour lol

#

well likle offical

#

but tours yeah i win some

peak crypt
#

yeah I don't think this is a very good tournament team

pulsar bay
peak crypt
#

it works best on ladder when you can kind of cheese people

#

a now-permabanned user once described this kind of thing as a "game 2 team"

#

it won't win every game and it probably won't win this one, but once you win game 1, game 2 is the only time you'll get to play it and if you win you feel like a god

#

Psychic on the Chi-Yu feels like it could just be Overheat instead though; with double Endeavor and lategame Last Respects you can cover Hands reasonably well and idk if there's much else you need Psychic for

pulsar bay
#

i should prob learn normal teams so i can use this to grab a sneaky win in a 3 round tour

peak crypt
#

you should do that yes

pulsar bay
#

i just hate glim so i try to kill it without it laying spikes

tight spire
#

Ngl if you're doing rock slide spam with dudunsparce you might as well use a Grimmsnarl with thunder wave at that point like that Reg I VGC Solgaleo team

slender basin
#

https://pokepast.es/5db9102382cc70f2

Hey guys, i found this singles team and i fell in love with it, but i saw a comment saying it works better as a doubles team, what changes to items and moves do i need to make it better for doubles?

halcyon pantherBOT
#

Hey @slender basin, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9ou team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1297721195604611163 instead.

slender basin
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

brittle spade
# slender basin https://pokepast.es/1a20ef836be3733f

there's a sample team that does that, i recommend you try it
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-sample-teams.3710876/
check the link

Smogon Forums
Resource - Doubles OU Sample Teams

Art by GenOne

Welcome to the Sample Teams thread! This thread is meant to highlight the best of the best teams in the Doubles OU tier. Sample Teams are exemplary teams that have proven themselves to be good and are basic enough for beginners to use, allowing them to pick up the fundamentals of...

tight spire
#

Yeah the Full Trick Room sample is way more refined than what that singles team is offering

slender basin
#

Yeah bur i want to turn tha single teams to doubles, since i like the pokemon in them, particularly azu and mimikyu

tight spire
#

Which seems to have some questionable moveset choices

#

Azumarill requires redirection if you want to run it

#

Which indeedee female does

#

Not the male

#

Mimikyu is probably not going to be very useful either

#

Curse isn't going to do much because it's too slow for doubles

#

And with trick room you want to maximize damage output within Trick Room

slender basin
#

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/twisted-magic-unite-psychic-terrain-trick-room-offense-peak-5-2015-elo-ft-azumarill-hoopa-u-mimikyu.3762770/

Smogon Forums
SV OU - Twisted Magic Unite - Psychic Terrain Trick Room Offense(Pe...

:sv/indeedee: :sv/hatterene: :sv/ursaluna: :sv/azumarill: :sv/Hoopa-unbound: :sv/Mimikyu:
Pokepaste(click sprites)
:indeedee:-:hatterene:-:ursaluna:-:Azumarill:-:Hoopa-Unbound:-:Mimikyu:

Content
1.Intro
2.Building Process
3.Team Breakdown
4. Usage Tips(vs playstyle and specific pokemon)...

#

The article explains why those pokemon are picked, i just want to know if these can work in doubles too

tight spire
#

Look you can't really go converting singles teams in doubles teams and expect it to work out

#

Mimikyu and Azumarill are very thin on viability

#

And the sets are not made for doubles

#

Since it has 3.5/6 pokemon listed on that team

slender basin
#

Alright, thx

brittle spade
slender basin
#

Why substitute on ursaluna?

shrewd iron
#

It also prevents fake out and intimidate

slender basin
#

How do i know people will do double protect tho?

torpid moat
#

it helps when your opponents get stronger

#

and yourself

#

you will learn to recognize situations where it'd be otherwise correct for opp to protect or switch their mons

#

because if they didn't luna would kill their stuff

#

so then you instead take advantage of their choice using sub

stiff sleet
#

DUU team again :)

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

brittle spade
stiff sleet
#

spore mons slow

brittle spade
#

you can pair it with icy wind or tailwind

#

even fast bonnet

peak crypt
#

(Toedscruel is in fact the slowest Spore)

brittle spade
#

ok true but wide lens hypnosis is just giving you a 62% chance to hit

#

just iron bundle with icy wind + focus sash breloom will give you fast spores

#

and quick sleep

stiff sleet
#

66%, but supersweet is supposed to help with that

brittle spade
#

without having to run a bunch of horrible mons

#

oh its 60 i thought it was 55

tight spire
#

Honestly I'd even just recommend like

#

Milotic as a hypnosis user if anything (don't take this fully seriously)

#

Over delphox

#

When you run wide lens you waste an item slot for a minor gain that is not worth it

#

When honestly you should just have used hypnosis at 60 and have a better item like focus sash

#

Which in that case probably smeargle would be better

#

You don't want to run items that don't have any actual game progression

elder island
#

does this works?

#

i had sneasler over pult than it got banned

elder island
torpid moat
elder island
torpid moat
#

idk, skill issue?

#

what matchups are you having trouble with

elder island
#

realluy

#

that's how u gonna help new players??

peak crypt
#

you are not new

#

but there’s also not really a gentle way of telling someone “you are playing badly” so sometimes it’s better to be blunt

#

The only suggestion I’d have is Typhlosion probably stinks, but I haven’t played enough DUU to make that call for sure (and certainly haven’t played at all since Sneasler and Basc flip flopped)

elder island
#

cause last respects access

#

so maybe i should drop H-hlosion

peak crypt
#

I think Typh is just ass in general. I don’t think it has anything to do with rain

elder island
#

cause a fast eruption user

peak crypt
#

But this team seems reasonable enough to get high on ladder with and I think Paint might be right that your abilities are holding you back more than the team

elder island
#

but everytime i lose it's to some random bullshit

#

like i just lost to a stall team with tr and wo chien

#

and smaergle upper hand wp entei

peak crypt
#

Like all of these Pokémon are either good or Typhlosion, and you should be able to make up for one mid Pokemon with gameplay

#

Nasty Plot over Air Slash might be something too

elder island
#

but people run normal tera inner focus wp entei with smeargel

#

this kind of bullshit i lose to

#

not like things that are common

#

How about armarouge

#

over typhlosion

torpid moat
#

if I were picking any fire over the typhlosion slot it'd be entei or arc

#

typhlosion is like okay though

#

it may be more fragile into certain comps but it has its uses

#

and yeah seconding np goltres

elder island
torpid moat
#

yeah cb and av both work

brittle spade
# elder island https://pokepast.es/3c8b648c2670b2e9

phantom force really helps against trick room so get rid of psychic fangs, timid moltres galar is bad, run modest and enough speed to reach 236, iron bundle can drop speed, drop it to 382, and run some spatk, im not sure typhlosion needs timid

#

you can also drop air slash on moltres galar for nasty plot

#

dragapult is easily the most droppable mon if you're having trouble, and you can put like helping hand fake out scrafty

#

or idk okidogi

stiff sleet
#

does magnezone have any use in duu? i feel like it doesnt given how prevalent sun teams are but speed control, STAB, bulk, volt switch and steel secondary typing is very attractive... it's really got a magnetic personality lolololololol

#

i didnt see it in the viability rankings

torpid moat
#

also magnezone's bulk is kinda mediocre, and its speed control is irrelevant as it's slow itself

#

if you want an electric with good speed control that's thund or regieleki

#

heatran also exists as another steel

stiff sleet
#

DUU team yet again (this format kinda more fun than OU)

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

stiff sleet
#

There are so many good possible variations im feeling frozen at choice

#

i could use Harcanine w/ mixed spread for coverage, i could use maaaybe kleavor to really lay on the chip damage, hell i could run a heatran myself idk

#

maybe t tar

#

but i dont always want sandstorm up i feel

stiff sleet
#

maybe gastrodon

torpid moat
#

also sandstorm goltres???

#

you should definitely cut the lati and boulder slots at least

#

also give your gross knock off over rock slide

#

boulder is frail, you can use it as a decent attacker but the sandstorm really isn't worthwhile, especially manual

#

and the psy terrain also doesn't particularly help boulder much

stiff sleet
#

I was thinking it'd null priority atks

#

So i did booster spd

torpid moat
#

imo clear amulet is better, but up to you ig

#

but yeah a good boulder team would just be a strong offense that runs complementary attackers

stiff sleet
#

Well I just want wins with boulder

torpid moat
#

goltres is a good partner

stiff sleet
#

Mkay

torpid moat
#

because goltres helps a lot with gross

#

but it definitely needs a more standard set

#

and if goltres is there, it makes sense to add bonnet or mew for extra healing

#

and then you want something to hit scrafty, also probably something else to hit gross

stiff sleet
#

Would running transform mew be good or should I not risk it and run taunt

torpid moat
#

mew can do a lot of things

#

but yeah I'd say no transform

#

tailwind most important

#

pollen puff next

#

rest should be some combination of wisp snarl coaching taunt sr

#

depending on what your team needs

stiff sleet
#

Alright

torpid moat
#

heatran would be an alright addition as well

#

or some other fire like entei

stiff sleet
#

Like this?

#

@torpid moat

stiff sleet
#

SOMEBODY PUT TYRANITAR IN DOU

#

HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO SET SANDSTORMS NOW??

peak crypt
#

hippo

#

I wouldn't really bother though

#

like Paint said, sand doesn't really help Boulder succeed, and Hippowdon's not the easiest thing to make room for

stiff sleet
#

So messed up

#

This is a huge L for excadrill teams

torpid moat
#

run heavy slam > meteor mash gross

#

give mew max hp, not max spa, this is a support set

#

make enam modest and give it earth power over mystical fire

#

but you should potentially consider primarina over that slot

#

idk why you're running random def, both ogerpon and boulder should be running 252 spe 252 atk jolly

#

ogerpon should also have spiky shield > protect

#

but if that's meant to be attack booster boulder, clear amulet is just a better item

#

also goltres is meant to be tanky, give it steel tera and protect over taunt

#

max hp, take from speed and spa

# 
Moltres-Galar @ Sitrus Berry  
Ability: Berserk  
Tera Type: Poison  
EVs: 252 HP / 76 SpA / 180 Spe  
Modest Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Tailwind  
- Nasty Plot  
- Protect  
- Fiery Wrath
#

like try this spread

torpid moat
#

also try cc + throat chop on boulder over sacred sword + eq

stoic coyote
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
#

is the first time you've ever played DOU? there are some decent choices here, but there are some that aren't as good and a few that conflict with each other, and the sets could all use some work

torpid moat
#

you seem to be trying too hard to build around sun and ended up with an unbalanced team, I see heat rock torkoal as well as 2 additional sunny day mons

#

there's just too many grasses and fires to not lose to incineroar or diancie or iron defense kommo or something

#

the other main issue is that by focusing so much on sun you end up lacking necessary support for the trick room options

#

sinistcha alone is not enough trick room support for torkoal + ursaluna, really you want multiple setters as well as disruption to make your trick room set safer and more reliable

#

note the fake out hands, priority blocking farig, as well as follow me cornerpon, all aiding the tr set

#

and this is just the support necessary for supporting a torkoal + hands core, with walking wake and chi-yu as standalone fastmodes

#

if you were to put ursaluna on this kind of team it would need even more trick room support to function

#

but yeah sun is nice to have for this team, but it isn't mandatory to function, so there's no need to run manual sun setters

stiff sleet
#

White herb + unburden is a crazy combo

#

Counters intimidate one time and allows you build bulk

#

Or negate close combat drops

#

Such a shame all the pokemon that have it are either shit or sneasler

#

Like hitmonlee could do good with it not to mention it has a good move pool but its natural bulk is poo

#

And lee doesn't have dire claw LOL

gloomy plinth
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

gloomy plinth
#

I can do the evs

tight spire
#

!nolegends

halcyon pantherBOT
#

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1373406929317269624

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for formats hosted on the Smogon forums, such as VGC and OU.

tight spire
#

we cannot help with a tier that isn't an actual Smogon Doubles Meta

gloomy plinth
#

OK my bad for disturbing

abstract hazel
#

this is my first time building a team

#

so i probably use the wrong move/item or some pokemon not synergize really well with the others

#

i often lead with farigiraf and amoonguss

#

amoonguss redirecting enemies attack with rage powder for farigiraf setting up trick room safely

#

when eject button activates, i switch it out with ursaluna

#

then helping hand on farigiraf + tera normal hyper voice/blood moon on ursaluna

#

and the rest of the team, im not pretty sure did they synergize or can work out with this team pretty well

#

i would really appreciate any feedback and suggestions given psycheer

peak crypt
#

I worry a bit that this team is too slow with only one Trick Room setter

#

If the Farigiraf is answered you’ll struggle a lot with things like Ogerpon, Chi-Yu, and Glimmora, all kind of just getting free rein to throw out big attacks

#

I actually think you could go a totally different route and swap Amoonguss +1 for Wellspring and Tornadus—a lot of early Bloodmoon teams ran both Trick Room and Tailwind and attempted to always keep their Bloodmoon moving first, and they’re still pretty scary if you don’t have a good answer

abstract hazel
#

ill try it out

#

amoonguss + 1 ?

#

do you mean like amoonguss + one other pokemon <swap it with> wellspring and tornadus?

torpid moat
abstract hazel
#

got it

#

thx

rose juniper
#

I will say tho that for a first ever team its quite good (ofc improvements can always be made)

wispy sandal
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

wispy sandal
#

Are there any improvements I can give to this team? Lead with incin + tornadus/sinistcha and clean with ursa and chi yu

peak crypt
#

The Trick Room angle feels kind of unnecessary here to be honest

#

Blood Moon is perfectly usable in Tailwind

#

I’d consider TR Farigiraf but only because it blocks priority and can Imprison TR if you want; you don’t have anything that really benefits from Trick Room going up besides Bloodmoon, and Bloodmoon at base 52 can’t actually go toe-to-toe with other TR Pokemon

#

I think you could try something like:

  • Sinistcha —> Farigiraf
  • Incineroar —> Rillaboom
  • Stomping Tantrum on Ogerpon —> Grassy Glide (or just Power Whip or Horn Leech for damage)
  • slow Bloodmoon —> fast Bloodmoon
#

There’s also a pretty reasonable chance that Wellspring will perform better than Cornerstone on this team, given that it makes your Lando-I and Diancie matchups way better, but I kind of dig the ability to bonk Tornadus immediately

wispy sandal
tight spire
# wispy sandal Okay tysm, should bloodmoon just be max speed?

you could just see what you want to try outspeeding with ursa under tailwind, make some benchmarks

For example at 252 speed with a modest nature you will have 203 speed which is exactly enough to out-speed Chien-Pao in Tailwind (but you do already have Vacuum Wave for that so it may not be as important to outspeed it with hypervoice necesarrily)

wispy sandal
#

Alright got it, thanks so much

elder island
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

brittle spade
elder island
#

stuff like lando

rose juniper
#

lando?

#

but you got 1 immume, 2 resists and oger water

prime pulsar
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
#

Hatterene is a terrible Pokemon without Indeedee-F

#

I can go deeper when I get home from work, unless someone else gets there first

tight spire
#

Idk where pecharunt is gonna get you

#

Trick room should be focused on being offensive within Trick roon

#

And pecharunt is just going to be wasting turns trying to poison things

torpid moat
#

seconding fangame, also if indeedee you can look into a third setter like diancie

prime pulsar
#

tbh the pecharunt slot is just something I'm trying to shove anything remotely decent into. perhaps diance would work for that slot

peak crypt
#

write a sticky note that says "do not click Fake Out in Psychic Terrain" and stick it to your desk

#

Incineroar doesn't really need Protect that much, and this team would really appreciate Knock Off for the Psyspam mirror and the occasional Cresselia

prime pulsar
#

Got it, thank you

torpid moat
#

I also don't recommend eject indeedee, prob just run sitrus there

#

definitely also consider protect > mystical fire hatt, the coverage really isn't as useful as you'd think compared to the positioning protect enables

amber panther
#

My Sun/Trick Room team

peak crypt
# amber panther

There's a lot of stuff here that directly interferes with other stuff. Ting-Lu makes Raging Bolt, the apparent win condition, deal less damage. Indeedee stops Thunderclap, Encore, and Taunt. Pecharunt has Hex but nothing on the team can reliably inflict status. Ting-Lu has Earthquake but there's only one Protect on the whole team

#

and Torkoal has no Fire moves to take advantage of the sun either, so you're basically just playing it for a damage boost on Raging Bolt

amber panther
#

Thanks

#

So what should I do instead

#

Should I change Indeedee’s ability to Own Tempo or Syncronize?

peak crypt
#

sorry it's super late

#

Indeedee without Psychic Surge is pretty bad. I think the better way forward is honestly just chopping off everything but the Torkoal and the Bolt

#

there's not really much you can do to try to salvage this six as it stands

#

sometimes that happens; you just put together a set of Pokemon that doesn't really work well together

#

most Trick Room in DOU tends to be either Indeedee TR or Sinistcha TR

#

Indeedee tends to be on way more aggressive teams that look to click Expanding Force as many times as possible until the game ends

#

Sinistcha TR tends to be built more resilient; this version is more likely to run a fast Pokemon and seek some opportunities to attack without setting TR

#

Ursaluna-Hisui and Diancie show up a lot on both variants

#

it's 1 AM and I can't really put much effort into building (I'm running on like four hours of sleep) but I'd look into something like this

image.png
brittle spade
#

if you want to build a trick room sun team

dim merlin
#

i forgot to change zapdos tera

tiny pond
#

https://pokepast.es/b88234ae4aca9c13
Hi guys, can u help me with this team that I created, give me any tips u have on everything: evs, moves, items. I'm not really good at creating teams

peak crypt
#

Doubles Ubers is a format where you can run literally any Pokemon with no restricted limit like in VGC

#

Why do you only have one broken Pokemon?

#

Why are Flutter Mane and Urshifu here when you have Pokémon like Miraidon and Arceus available to you?

#

Actually given the EVs this looks exactly like a VGC Reg G team and not like a DUbers team at all

#

@tiny pond

tiny pond
#

yeah I want to use this team in a format with 6vs6 and not 4vs4

tiny pond
peak crypt
#

You still need more powerful Pokemon

#

DUbers is a format where you might be staring down Arceus, Zamazenta, Koraidon, Miraidon, Calyrex, and Magearna all at once

#

If you really want to use Flutter Mane in particular, there’s a decent Sun core in the format with Koraidon + Groudon + Arceus-Fire

#

The last three slots usually look something like Miraidon / Zamazenta / Grimmsnarl, but if Flutter is the objective here, you could probably roll with like Grimmsnarl Caly-Ice in the last two slots

#

You’ll be vulnerable to stuff like the Gravity + Darkrai teams and somewhat vulnerable to Smeargle cheese, but Misty Terrain on the Grimmsnarl can help with the former and a judicious use of Tera Ghost can help with the latter

tiny pond
#

thanks for the advice

torpid moat
#

gapdos should really have brave bird > drill peck

#

and probably knock off over kick

#

but yeah in terms of mons selection it feels like an offense team but not using the strongest stuff

#

imo simplest fixes would be to cut armarouge for heatran, gastro for baxcalibur or primarina

prime pulsar
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
#

your ogre is mild

torpid moat
#

mons like zacian and shadow rider would actually offer better coverage than water urshi/basc/arch

prime pulsar
#

ngl I completely forgot about palkia

prime pulsar
torpid moat
#

you have to have very good reasons to use non-box legends, usually for unique support capabilities like incin and amoonguss

prime pulsar
#

yeah tornadus is there for support, sets up tw and rain when ogre isn't available

torpid moat
#

yeah torn is fine

#

I'm talking about water urshi/basc/arch

#

arch I can kinda give a pass to if it gets the right support

#

but definitely not the urshi

#

like just throw an ekiller in that slot or something

prime pulsar
#

so switch ursh and basc with zacian and shadow rider? or would it be better to switch one of them with palkia instead

#

might go with palkia, seems like it'd fit the team better with its speed

#

nvm apparently shadow and ice have different speed stats lol

torpid moat
#

yeah shadow rider is like basc but with spread and not reliant on deaths/rain

#

the arch I'm still not really sold on btw, it's cute if you wanna build around rain but it needs both tailwind advantage + rain to function

#

and probably eterrain too for getting kills

prime pulsar
#

the bridge is funny but yeah I probably need to find something consistent

torpid moat
#

if it were just a team that happened to have kyogre on it, magearna would be a boosting mon that also comes with a speed control option

#

imo that's the better direction to take a rain team anyways, mystic water ogre/magearna/mirai (for sleep immunity)/ice rider/ekiller

#

but if you wanted to get cute the magearna could become arch under tr

prime pulsar
#

yeah but then I'd have to build around tr aswell wouldn't I : /

torpid moat
#

the ice rider would already be a tr setter though

#

that's the point

#

ogre/magearna/ice rider is a perfectly serviceable semiroom core

#

and tr is more powerful than tw for mons of arch's speed tier

#

ogre/arch/tr regular palkia/ice rider would be okay too

#

origin palkia is the one with 120 spe btw

prime pulsar
#

makes sense actually yeah

torpid moat
#

ice rider and magearna also get tr if that wasn't clear

prime pulsar
#

yep figured that

#

Origin palkia over miraidon?

torpid moat
#

absolutely not no

#

mirai is the best mon on the team

prime pulsar
#

fair

torpid moat
#

the point is to run fewer mons dependent on rain

prime pulsar
torpid moat
#

sets could be improved, but monwise seems fine

#

the zac should probably become clear amulet ekiller because you have a pretty strong zama matchup

#

ogre wants 252 hp/252 spa

#

actually run like 20 spe on ogre, you wanna pass shadow rider in tw

#

give magearna sitrus berry tr/dazzling/flash cannon/protect

#

what makes magearna strong is letting it stay in and rack up soul heart boosts

#

ice rider wants an offensive item like clear amulet and horsepower> leech seed

#

leech is a vgc thing where switching isn't as powerful

#

the mirai should prob just be magnet with protect > snarl

prime pulsar
#

thank you : )

dim merlin
#

might put thunderous therian instead of eleki

elder island
#

and why icy wind bax ??

#

also why dark pulse on heatran

dim merlin
#

Icy wind is always good and dark pulse is great coverage

elder island
#

and eweb on eleki or tw on Zapdos

#

for spe control

#

also hetran can run lefties

#

also u have tw,eweb and icy wind

#

why u need tht much spe control

peak crypt
#

Non-STAB Dark is actually pretty lousy coverage and doesn’t help Heatran or Bax hit much they can’t already hit

#

Your Heatran is particularly missing Earth Power, which is actually really important to hit things that resist Fire

#

I’d also strongly consider “standardizing” most of these sets

#

Max Attack and max Speed Jolly on Cornerstone with Ivy Cudgel / Power Whip / Follow Me / Spiky Shield

#

Dropping Tera Blast and Thunderous Kick for Close Combat and U-turn on Zapdos (and probably Jolly nature as well)

#

Baxcalibur usually runs setup sets, like Swords Dance with Loaded Dice or Dragon Dance with Clear Amulet, and almost always runs a Dragon move (only rarely dropping it for High Horsepower)

elder island
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

elder island
#

how does this looks?

mild lichen
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

dim merlin
#

how good is covert cloak on sinicha just in case they have ursaluna blood moon

#

does cloak even help lol

brittle spade
brittle spade
#

chien pao dragonite gouging fire teams already need 2+ hard checks for it

#

you shouldnt be running paonite + regidrago chiyu

brittle spade
toxic sundial
tight spire
polar lotus
peak crypt
#

The basics are fine but the BP Incin is almost surely not worth it and Lucario is just bad

shrewd iron
#

If you want to play coaching in trick room you should probably play mew

#

Also, chien pao isn't a great target to use coaching on because it's not really bulky

peak crypt
#

Chien-Pao also doesn’t learn any moves that work with Loaded Dice

#

You may be thinking of Icicle Spear, which Pao does not learn

shrewd iron
#

You lose too much not having knock off and flare blitz on incineroar

brittle spade
keen summit
# brittle spade try this https://pokepast.es/cafb5d5f7389b0f2

You can optionally run a couple speed evs on incineroar to fake out better against other incineroars (shift them from defense, the spdef achieves a calc so don't change it), and snarl and will-o-wisp are possible over knock off if you want to do that
Also adamant loses pao sacred sword speed ties but that's a lesser concern

#

How do I make this not sound like I'm 'helping a helper'

brittle spade
# keen summit You can optionally run a couple speed evs on incineroar to fake out better again...

you should absolutely not touch the defense EVS on incineroar since they let it live ivy cudgel from the standard ogerpon-wellspring set whereas the spdef is a benchmark for volcanion, which sees 0 tournament use, snarl has no business being run on a team thats already very solid into raging bolt. wisp is definitely possible for diancie, over knock off. On trick room teams you specifically like having zero speed incineroar, even cutting speed IVs in order to have a slow parting shot and get ursaluna in safely. Adamant chien pao, beyond being the better set in tournaments right now, has synergy on this team due to the fact its slower than the mon clicking coaching, which was the original gimmick the ratee seemed to value.

brittle spade
keen summit
eternal lion
peak crypt
#

Sometimes you actually want your Incineroar on TR teams to be faster

#

You can Fake Out before an opponent’s Incineroar, set Trick Room, and then Parting Shot after their Incin

#

@eternal lion

#

Avoiding a speed tie against Farigiraf doesn’t hurt either mmm

#

Incineroar’s role as a Pokémon is really not that dependent on its Speed stat, so it can spare a few EVs sometimes to look for small optimizations like that

#

In a couple VGC formats this generation, I liked having a slower Incineroar to guarantee I beat Gallade in Trick Room, but my better performances have all had Incineroars with Speed investment so who’s to say

brittle spade
eternal lion
eternal lion
peak crypt
#

do you have an objection

#

we’re both open to talking about teambuilding. We wouldn’t be here if we weren’t. But if you’re just going to be like “omg” and nothing else then idk what else to tell you

tight spire
#

Incineroar is one of those pokemon you'd rather often have run some speed bc you're often not even using it in tr (you rather use things like Ursaluna or Torkoal while trick room is up) and it's better to have Incineroar be more functional outside trick room than inside

stark hollow
tight spire
# stark hollow Hear me out. https://pokepast.es/80e2e47818b19893

Clodsire is too weak damage wise to be used in trick room (you want to maximize damage/disruption)and idt that it's bulk can get it far in DOU. Additionally Empoleon's not really worth just trying to counter Incineroar as an attacker on its own (if anything id recommend milotic!.....or maybe Kingambit)

Personally I think you'd get more use out of Sinistcha over cresselia because it can offer immediate healing and easier to use redirection

stark hollow
# tight spire Clodsire is too weak damage wise to be used in trick room (you want to maximize ...

Tbh, Clod has actually been extremely useful, not only does it mostly handle water teams himself, he can actually get some really important ko's, being able to one shot rilla, hatterene, chi-yu, all tapus, enamorus, gholdengo, all ogerpon other than the stone mask, mega gardevoir, iron valiant and primarina. While two shotting gambit archeludon, raging bolt slowking-galar iron hands pelliper sneasler urshifu-rapid and even fluttermane (Without psychic)

tight spire
#

aditionally you named some pokemon banned in DOU

#

like uh mega gardevoir and archaludon

#

so i guess this is national dex?

torpid moat
#

while the coverage is neat, that's only on SE hits as a life orb tr attacker at +0

#

which should be the bare minimum

stark hollow
#

eh I played some games with it on Nat dex as well as DOU got to 1500 in both

tight spire
#

yeah 75atk is kinda really not good for trick room

#

1500 on dou doesn't mean much

#

bc the dou ladder isn't like the VGC ladders and anything can get to 1800

#

on it

torpid moat
#

especially so because you have to land a gunk

tight spire
#

ursaluna is the only consistent way of damage within trick room (maybe empoleon is a bit dangerous with specs)

#

on this team

#

which means when ursaluna is taken out its not hard for the enemy to stall out trick room

stark hollow
#

eh empoleon is like the latest addition, I am trying milotic as you recommended right now

tight spire
#

milotic is only something I really do myself but at least you can hypnosis with it

#

and do life dew and stuff

#

(this is just a disclaimer)

torpid moat
#

I've tried milo, it's only usable on snow btw

tight spire
#

yeah it needs some pretty good defensive prescense

#

Empoleon in a simiilar situation needs the defenses of snow usually

#

it worth wile over say kingambit

torpid moat
#

but yeah just pretend the clod were an okidogi

tight spire
#

okidogi actually sounds cool

torpid moat
#

dogi gets natural intim immunity as well as much higher attack

#

and gets drain punch/gunk/knock for very similar coverage to clod

#

except on a much stronger mon

tight spire
#

you could potentially? use an ogerpon wellspring over empoleon I think if going okidogi if you want to have a water type still

#

follow me works well for most things here

torpid moat
#

yeah waterpon would be helpful if you still have trouble with opposing waters

keen summit
keen summit
#

Drop clod, clod does not have the offense to take on DOU
It could be funny as like a spiker but that's not what this team is supporting anyway
Something like okidogi over clodsire as suggested would be great, helps take on diancie and also keeps incineroar off the field so you can click more buttons.
Something like this could work, probably with some other wake check than waterpon
https://pokepast.es/1703be2a2cf2ca7f

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

keen summit
#

Maybe go like rillaboom

#

And swap out incin for something else I can't think of right now

prime pulsar
tight spire
# prime pulsar Making a trickroom team for doubles, anything you would suggest changing or does...

It looks fine, there is the issue of Indeedee being tera psychic instead of a defensive one though as you won't get much from tera psychic.

You could potentially dump the rocky helmet on Amoongus for a sitrus berry or even a mental herb if you want to have extra taunt protection and potentially another option against to lead, rocky helmet is still fine though if you want to break a sash on Chien Pao or other physical attackers maybe.

But otherwise the team looks fine to me

ruby nacelle
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

shrewd iron
#

I think your volcarona should have protect, it's really important for setuppers to have it to dodge fake out and also to have mind games

#

No need for rage powder since your team is so concentrated on volcarona as the win condition

ruby nacelle
#

Ok I'll do that

shrewd iron
#

Also heat wave is better than fiery dance

#

Safety googles is an odd item, it would be better to be leftovers

ruby nacelle
#

Ok I'll also change that

shrewd iron
#

3 fake outters is a bit weird, volcarona plays well with clefairy or maybe putting another win condition will work out better but I would wait for other input before changing stuff

ruby nacelle
#

Which pokemon should I replace?

peak crypt
#

my big problem with this team is you kind of just have one threat

#

like Hands can definitely go off but Lando-T has seen much better days and the rest of your team (besides Volc) isn't really high damage

#

and against more offensive teams you kind of just don't really have any way to keep up if they can manage the Fake Outs

#

no speed control also really stinks

ruby nacelle
#

Could you recommend some pokemon I should use?

peak crypt
#

my instinct is like

ruby nacelle
#

Wut

peak crypt
#

actually hmm

#

is there a part of this team you really want to keep? or did you just put some Pokemon together to see what happens

shrewd iron
#

An option would be Lando I/Tornadus/ogerpon water

#

But there a lot of routes

peak crypt
#

yeah that's definitely the "easy" upgrade route

shrewd iron
#

Iron hands could be made sword dance as a second win condition

peak crypt
#

personally I think SD Hands is ass without Trick Room

shrewd iron
#

Maybe with a clefairy

ruby nacelle
shrewd iron
#

Raging bolt is also something that fits well

peak crypt
#

if you want to keep a little bit more of the current structure, you can squish Volcarona and Amoonguss into a single slot as Hearthflame Ogerpon, then drop Lando-T for Lando-I and run Tornadus in the last slot

ruby nacelle
peak crypt
#

though I think Incin / Hands / Volc / Wellspring / Torn-I / Lando-I is probably the better six

#

and would recommend that one first

ruby nacelle
#

I feel like I should just make a new team with an actual strategy

#

Can you help me with that?

shrewd iron
#

It wasn't a bad attempt tbf, just a bit passive

ruby nacelle
#

So should I keep working on this one?

shrewd iron
ruby nacelle
#

what would be the best pokemon for a trick room strategy?

shrewd iron
#

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-sample-teams.3710876/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/

Smogon Forums
Resource - Doubles OU Sample Teams

Art by GenOne

Welcome to the Sample Teams thread! This thread is meant to highlight the best of the best teams in the Doubles OU tier. Sample Teams are exemplary teams that have proven themselves to be good and are basic enough for beginners to use, allowing them to pick up the fundamentals of...

Smogon Forums
Resource - SV Doubles OU Viability Rankings

Art by Fangame10

Welcome to the Doubles OU Viability Ranking project, where we rank the viability of Pokemon in DOU. The floor will always be open to discussion, and after a period of time (roughly every month), the viability rankings council will vote on any of the Pokemon being discussed and...

#

Here's information that could help you

ruby nacelle
#

Ok I'll check these out

shrewd iron
#

Also you can check if a Pokémon has any commentary and what's the best set by writing /analysis Pokémon (eg. /analysis iron hands

ruby nacelle
#

okay

#

So what is the best strategy for a team cuz there's a lot?

shrewd iron
#

There are different strategies but there isn't a best one per se

#

You could try a couple and see what you like by using the sample teams

ruby nacelle
#

Okay

#

so I've seen intimidate incineroar being used first to lower the attack but what other pokemon should i put with It?

ruby nacelle
shrewd iron
#

The sample teams are always updated, you can see last edit in the thread was sunday

ruby nacelle
#

Ah

#

I'm still confused about team building

shrewd iron
#

Knowing which Pokémon work together takes time and experience

#

And often a lot of trial and error

#

Generally there are a couple type of teams:
Tailwind teams that want to push for damage
Bulky teams that don't need tailwind or any type of speed control (usually use fake outs to remedy the lack of speed control)
Trick room teams that push for damage after setting trick room
Archetype teams (like snow teams, drought teams)

ruby nacelle
#

So if I were to build a trick room team should I still have a healing pokemon and should have 2 pokemon that can do trick room ?

peak crypt
#

healing is not an important part of the game

#

it's a nice bonus but it's not a requirement at all

ruby nacelle
#

Ah ok

#

Also is hatterene a good trick room setter?

peak crypt
#

Hatt is good alongside Indeedee-F but it's not very good without Indeedee

#

Expanding Force is a stupid move that shouldn't exist, but Hatt is just not all there if it can't use Expanding Force

ruby nacelle
#

Ok so I should start with hatterene and a indeedee female form?

#

And then switch them with another pokemon or just play with them first?

#

Should I use iron hands and king gambit?

peak crypt
#

I'd recommend just starting with the "standard" Psyspam sample team

#

I don't want to say psyspam is "solved" but there's not a whole lot of room to build with it; the archetype is inherently pretty uninteractive and you generally just use the best things

polar lotus
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

polar lotus
#

Swords Dance +2
Spicy Extract +2
And Defiant +2

And within trick room to move first
& the terrain would keep me protected from Priority

#

The only problem is to figure out how to set all this up lol

#

And I maybe need a Pivot mon and maybe a Fast mon for when I don't have Trick Room up..?!

shrewd iron
#

Maybe you don't know but defiant gets activated only by stats lowered by the opponent

#

So spicy extract will be a +2 not a +4

#

Either way the idea would be a quite bad gimmick

peak crypt
#

Gambit can be protected from priority by using its own priority in Trick Room

#

you don’t need double or even single priority block

polar lotus
polar lotus
peak crypt
#

Spicy Extract does work the way you want with Clear Amulet, if you’re trying to get freaky

polar lotus
polar lotus
peak crypt
#

Standard SD Gambit actually just runs double Dark move and usually hangs out with a redirection partner

#

Like Amoonguss, Sinistcha, or Ogerpon (any flavor will do)

#

It’s 3 AM so I’m handing it off to fangame

#

good night chat

polar lotus
polar lotus
tight spire
#

I've been suddenly thrown this

#

Well I'm thinking

#

Its best to use spicy extract on something that can pull its weight independently

#

The only time I've seen this done is with Koraidon in VGC bc it's a sun setter

polar lotus
tight spire
#

I don't really see this thing being that synergetic on a full trick room team

#

Consider that you have 1 physical attacker who

polar lotus
tight spire
#

Is probably not going to sweep in trick room

#

As easily as Ursaluna

#

Moody is w/e

polar lotus
#

How about that old Alolan Muk and Scovillian strat?!

tight spire
#

The speed boost from chlorophyll is everything

polar lotus
#

Where I'll die and muk would get moody... And I'll spam Minimize or smth on him

tight spire
#

First of all you'd be doing that with smeargle 🧱

polar lotus
tight spire
#

2nd no minimize in dou 🙁

polar lotus
tight spire
#

So Muk cant really go that far

#

Like the closest you can get to successful scovillain without Koraidon is like, idk

#

A sun team with a physical Ninetales

polar lotus
#

I guess spicy Extract ain't that good to be used with it's massive downside 😭

tight spire
#

Or maybe u boost some espeeder

#

Like Entei or Dragonite

#

But they have inner focus so ig clam is pointless

polar lotus
tight spire
#

If you plan on never getting hit maybe

polar lotus
#

So any other strat... Or maybe I should start slow with a standard team!!

#

I always wanted to use Screaming Tail and Gholdengo... But idk how to build team around them

tight spire
#

Being standard is a ok

#

If you wanna do a silly gimmick

#

The best thing to do is have a good structure first

#

Bc u gotta assume that in 50% of your games, plan A fails

polar lotus
tight spire
#

But you also want to make sure that scovillain isn't just dead weight

#

It does have redirection I think

polar lotus
tight spire
polar lotus
tight spire
#

The structures should still be sound

#

There is always the insane path....

#

Flare blitz Kanto Ninetales...

#

I can see you making use of Ogerpon H maybe as eell

#

It will have a defense drop but

#

It will OHKO everything probably

polar lotus
tight spire
#

I believe I remember that as a YouTuber?

polar lotus
tight spire
#

Maybe you can mess with this

#

For a bit

#

It should still work

polar lotus
tight spire
#

Well iron hands is way better than tusk

polar lotus
#

Or ancient Jigglybuff

tight spire
#

And it's also protecting you from a lot of stuff

#

And giving u fake out

polar lotus
tight spire
#

And being a trick room sweeper

#

Pinchurchin is like extremely not good

#

To a point where you're better off setting electric terrain manually

#

With something else

polar lotus
#

It would've been so better if that porcupine could redirect lol!!

tight spire
#

Its the only electric surge mon in SV other than miraidon, youd think by now we'd find something to use it for

#

But no it's just such massive dead weight

polar lotus
tight spire
#

Ig but the boosts you get from electric terrain aren't particularly worth it

#

Without miraidon

#

Bc miraidon is the only pokemon capable of running an electric terrain team

#

And in VGC they only use Iron Hands

#

And sometimes iron bundle and maybe

#

Iron valiant

#

For speed

polar lotus
tight spire
#

Rip koko

#

But yeah if you had Koko

#

You could use iron bundle with it for speed control

#

But pinchurchin is so slow

#

That you can't do that

polar lotus
#

Wait, I always wanted to use Iron Bundle... That guy used to be a beast for awhile when it first came out, idk why I don't hear much about him now?!

polar lotus
tight spire
#

Bc iron bundle has less importance as a blizzard spammer or as speed control rn

#

Regieleki wouldn't be able to deal enough damage even in terrain

#

And you don't have good coverage with it + pinchurchin

polar lotus
tight spire
#

Kyurem

#

In snow

polar lotus
# tight spire Kyurem

Ohh... I think I rarely ever saw him in Gen 9 DOU?!
But yeah he's a staple in Snow Teams (especially with that Defense boost)

#

With defense boost I just remembered about Hisuian Avalugg... With his Natural Bulk and Snow Defense Boost he must have hard hitting Body Press even without Iron Defense ✨

tight spire
#

Sadly the defense boost from snow doesn't apply to body press

polar lotus
polar lotus
#

Isn't Cetitan better in that case