#Smogon Doubles Rates

1 messages · Page 18 of 1

torpid moat
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it has 2 pollen puff users, multiple ways to weaken opps with incin and wo chien

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and speed control with icy wind mew

tardy lantern
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So it's tough to lose ghold

torpid moat
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yeah, as long as you're playing carefully

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this isn't similar in design to you original team though, let me find a more offensive team

tardy lantern
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that's kinda what I was trying to go for, thanks

torpid moat
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maybe this team, except with lando-i over the incineroar

tardy lantern
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Ok

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Is it just me or are the icons for raging bolt and ogerpon wellspring not loaded

torpid moat
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yeah pokepaste doesn't have the dlc mons I think

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ok this one is even more offensive

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probably closest in style to your original

tardy lantern
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That one looks pretty nice actually

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With Lando t what should I hope to accomplish tho

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I didn't know it should use sash

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So I'm not sure what it's gameplan is

torpid moat
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tbh that set is really weird

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if you don't like it it can be scarf lando-i instead

tardy lantern
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It looked a bit off the more I looked at it

torpid moat
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but the idea is to get sr up near-guaranteed in the important matchups

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while still hitting some other important mons with sandsear

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the non-prankster taunt is for trick room setters, especially indeedee who would block prankster taunt

tardy lantern
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Does it still need sash with intimidate boosting it's bulk

tardy lantern
torpid moat
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you could probably get away without sash if you wanted

tardy lantern
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Yea I was planning to change that first thing

torpid moat
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the antisynergy with intim/sash isn't as big as you think though

tardy lantern
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Cause switching?

torpid moat
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sash is there for matchups like snow where you really want to set sr

tardy lantern
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That makes more sense

torpid moat
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and the intim is more for the benefit of partners than itself

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again it's clunky, but I can see why it's there 6th to help solve matchup issues

tardy lantern
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6th where

torpid moat
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the lando is the 6th mon, meaning they added it on at the end to try fixing their problems

tardy lantern
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Ah

torpid moat
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likely trying to address all of trick room, paonite, and incineroar

tardy lantern
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One mon probably can't do all of that

torpid moat
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you can certainly check them all

tardy lantern
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Really

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With one mon or a team of mons

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Or just a few of them

torpid moat
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yeah that lando set technically checks all of those in a single slot

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that's likely why it's such a weird set

tardy lantern
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Hmm

torpid moat
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check, not counter btw

tardy lantern
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Yea it seems kind of shaky

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Thx a lot for the advice though I am going to head to bed but I will edit my team(s) tomorrow

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I appreciate it

torpid moat
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btw, check out the doubles discord if you want other people's opinions/advice

tardy lantern
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Thx

tardy lantern
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What would I replace for np ghold?

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Maybe Firepon?

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Also if I'm running np ghold I would need more physical attackers right

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Because Howl gouging fire

torpid moat
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you wouldn't run gouging and ghold on the same team

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a gouging team would probably go for landorus-i + waterpon as your diancie checks

tardy lantern
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Ok

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With gouging fire should I have vital spirit dragonite or replace it with Lando-I or replace another mon entirely

tardy lantern
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Should Lando I have sandstorm?

polar lotus
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

polar lotus
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Have some mercy on me lol

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I just got into competitive today out of curiousity and am mostly just playing because I watch a lot of Wolfey lol

peak crypt
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you should take some more time and actually pay attention to the things he says in his videos

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There’s not really a way to fix this team without dramatically changing it, and by the time it’s fixed, it’d look nothing like the current version

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I’d also recommend checking the sample teams and the DOU analyses on Smogon’s strategy dex to get a better idea of what to run and what sets Pokemon typically use

tardy lantern
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Dang

torpid moat
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by sandstorm I assume you mean sandsear storm, which is a personal choice, but lando i should always have earth power/sludge bomb/filler/protect

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that filler can be sandsear, as long as you're fine with the accuracy

tardy lantern
tardy lantern
tardy lantern
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tardy lantern
tardy lantern
tardy lantern
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Maybe different item and set idk

orchid stump
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

orchid stump
wispy kindle
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a random fun team i made

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is there a way i can improve it?

torpid moat
# tardy lantern https://pokepast.es/ca81492f3a154662

so as I said earlier, fake tears whims + ghold should be on a different team from the gouging/paonite package, fake tears is only worthwhile if you're committing to heavy special attackers like chi yu. In pretty much any other case, tailwind torn is more reliable. Gouging Paonite is physical focus, whims chi yu ghold would be special focus, and you don't want to have both at the same time

torpid moat
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but yeah first team could be tornadus + waterpon over whims + volc

brittle spade
brittle spade
# orchid stump https://pokepast.es/35e5e69633d176d0

ninetales-alola wants at least 332 speed, glimmora wants focus sash and special attacks, that farigiraf set is very weak and there's nothing interesting to baton pass to, just run throat spray or nasty plot.
cloyster and gliscor are very underwhelming in doubles and we wouldn't recommend using them. if you really want gliscor you can try running tailwind on it, cloyster wants max speed max atk and maybe even a focus sash. Gholdengo wants protect over thunder wave. try importing standard sets for gholdengo farigiraf ninetales and glimmora to better understand their strenghts in doubles

tardy lantern
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Or could I run a more offensive one

tardy lantern
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The main reason I had it was for follow me to redirect moves so I can set up

orchid stump
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
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Double weather isn’t very easy to run, nor is it all that good

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Your opponent can often pick apart the team so you have your sun abusers and Pelipper but lose Torkoal and your rain abusers

orchid stump
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(improved version)

orchid stump
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

orchid stump
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(improved) 2

tight spire
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when Baxcalibur would generallly be better in the physical realm

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additonally if you didn't know Alola Ninetales gets Howl if you do want a physical snow sweeper

peak crypt
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I don't have a ton of time right now to help with the team, but I do want to ask you to not just dump a bunch of teams at once in the future; it's a lot easier for us to help you out if you're focusing on one team and sticking around, so we can work together on it

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(fangame is the snow master. he will be of more help than me anyway)

tight spire
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Well I also think this snow team needs some better fire resists

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if glimmora dies the whole team gets nuked by chi yu

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like having a bulky water type for that is always nice

cosmic pasture
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

cosmic pasture
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im planning to not bring this against hugo hopefully so he should absolutely not prep for that

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if it isn't actually garbage

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actually posting that here was shortsighted

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Anyways the idea is shell smash blastoise semiroom

earnest junco
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A bold move

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Oh i misread

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Nvm then

cosmic pasture
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This is actually one big mind game against him

tardy lantern
tardy lantern
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Also trick room teams are giving me trouble

rose juniper
orchid stump
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
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you can still have chi yu standalone on a paonite team, or pao standalone on a chi yu fake tears whims team, but you can't reasonably fit everything at once while somehow having room for support and fixing matchup issues

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the idea is to build a team with a solid concept from the start instead of trying to make swaps later on

torpid moat
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the reason traditional rain comps could fit double redirection was specifically because of arch, and basc doesn't replace arch's role at all

rapid night
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hello guys,how do I send a team ? just copy from showdown or is there something else to do ?

tardy lantern
brittle spade
rapid night
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Thanks

torpid moat
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and volcarona would still wanna go

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pao/waterpon/incin is another one of that team's cores otherwise

tardy lantern
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Team I mean

torpid moat
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just link the team you're talking about

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like relink it

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I don't think any of them you have rn would make sense to swap chi yu for pao though

tardy lantern
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
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ok, what change do you want to make to this one?

tardy lantern
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Volcarona hasn't been doing much

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So I feel like smth else might be better

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But idk

torpid moat
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ok, in that case, try regidrago or chi yu over volcarona here

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you also don't need both hh and fake tears on whims

tardy lantern
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I haven't tried regidrago yet but chi yu was working pretty well especially for knocking out trick room setters

torpid moat
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you'd rather have protect or encore or taunt

tardy lantern
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Probably going to do encore

torpid moat
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I don't think balloon is a particularly good ghold item, but you do you ig

tardy lantern
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What does regidrago bring to the team

torpid moat
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damage under tailwind

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nukes nonfairy tr setters/slow mons too

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252 spa 252 spe modest dragon fang dragon energy/draco meteor/earth power/protect

tardy lantern
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Why dragon fang?

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If it's a special dragon why would there be physical moves

torpid moat
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dragon fang is an item

tardy lantern
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Oh

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It sounds a bit like a move so I mistook it as one

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Should I do Tera dragon for offense or Tera steel for defense

torpid moat
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prob dragon

silver gale
prisma swallow
silver gale
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lmao

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alright

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can i still use snorlax or is he really bad

prisma swallow
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snorlax is, pretty bad

cosmic pasture
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Belly drum has a niche but im not sure it has ever actually been used

silver gale
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yeah idk if its cuz of low elo but im kinda kicking ass once im set up

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with snorlax

stuck flame
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
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and even drum hands is quite niche compared to sd or vest

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and yeah a lot of these other sets are just built to fail, like the tr hatt running speed, or the special attacking rilla or the mixed moltres

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be sure to look up how physical and special moves work, because most mons are best either purely physical or purely special due to how stats and ev invest works

torpid moat
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if you wanted torn on this team it'd be ogerpon-hearthflame + torn over incin + waterpon

orchid stump
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

brittle spade
# orchid stump https://pokepast.es/daba4143253e561e

chiyu is missing a spread move, nasty plot doesnt want willowisp, gastrodon is a very bad mon in doubles but if you want to use it it should have an assault vest, sinistcha does not want curse or poltergeist, blastoise is too passive and raging bolt wants protect

wispy kindle
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid glacier
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I'm using this team rn but arch has been banned to DUbers in showdown

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What would yall suggest I do

peak crypt
# wispy kindle https://pokepast.es/d8e237800b705af5

I think you'll find a lot of trouble playing this team in Doubles OU simply because the quality of the Pokemon on your team is relatively low. The sets are mostly fine, but DOU just has so many stronger Pokemon. I think you'd find more success cutting the Incineroar and Raging Bolt and running this in Doubles UU instead, where Thundurus, Metagross, and Sneasler are comparatively stronger.

This isn't to say we can't make this work in DOU, but I'd like to see how you feel about the above before we proceed with any changes

peak crypt
# torpid glacier What would yall suggest I do

There is simply no replacement for Archaludon. Nothing gets to passively scale like Arch or has the typing Arch has, and going forward, rain will probably revert to a much more offensive archetype. You could try a pretty simple switch of Choice Band Basc-F and Assault Vest Raging Bolt over Ogerpon and Archaludon, but nothing will really fill the void Arch left. Your other option is to drop the Pelipper entirely and build into something a little more balance-focused.

normal aurora
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oh hi there @peak crypt nice to see you again

wispy kindle
normal aurora
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ngl I feel bad archaludon was banned

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yea it was pretty op but it was an absolute keystone to rain teams

normal aurora
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ngl been a while since I played doubles

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so hopefully nothing too crazy happened

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phew still got it in me

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idk how I won but I did

torpid moat
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a waterpon wouldn't be out of place either for example

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neither would atales

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if you wanna be hipster or whatever you could try webs araquanid or palafin in that slot

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or scarf basc-f

normal aurora
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ok maybe I should stop being too cocky

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idk ig it just feels satisfying to beat a top 500 player

plush otter
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you and I use a very similar team composition Dee haha

normal aurora
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huh

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whats your team?

plush otter
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its pretty much that exact same trick room team except i use ursaluna and armourouge

normal aurora
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ok instead of which 2 mons that I use

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@plush otter if u wanna use my team here it is

halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
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I'd recommend not using that team

plush otter
peak crypt
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but also that archetype in general

plush otter
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and here's my team that i used

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if it works for us, I'll use it

peak crypt
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psyspam is really good at killing people who don't really know how to deal with it, but when you play people with more experience you tend to lose hard

normal aurora
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cool

peak crypt
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a lot of games come down to "did you get the lead right"

plush otter
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that's a majority of times haha

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*teams

peak crypt
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nah I think it is way more pronounced with psyspam than with anything else

plush otter
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im glad i dont depend on psy spam then...

peak crypt
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if you get your lead correct you can usually get really far ahead of your opponent, but if you pick your lead wrong it's pretty much over

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whereas most other archetypes do a better job of stabilizing off a bad lead

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it's not just psyspam, it's particularly the Indeedee + Torkoal + Lilligant archetype

plush otter
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sure, it's helpful, but im not lost without it

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my trickiest match ups are mainly against rain teams

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your concerns are valid, but i know what im doing piloting this team

normal aurora
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tbh my main strategy is to just let torkoal shred through enemies

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with indeedee and walking wake in case things go severely wrong

normal aurora
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ok I tried with a rain team

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It feels kinda weird to use a rain team but with no archaludon

torpid moat
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that's because bulky rain builds are defined by having arch

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your team here would be objectively better if the pelipper were removed for an actual mon

normal aurora
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Im gonna try to make a team where volcanion can succed

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because I feel bad that he's not in many teams

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a cool pokemon with a cool design and typing

normal aurora
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

normal aurora
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dont question the nicknames

knotty lotus
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Drought team

peak crypt
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I think a lot of the sets on this team are a little too greedy and don't always make total sense

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why does Farig have both Thunder Wave and Trick Room? Your own moveset is making itself worse

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Roaring Moon doesn't really have the luxury of running all of Tailwind, STABs, and Acro; it really needs to pick a slot for Protect

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and I am entirely unconvinced by Iron Valiant

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I just don't see it really having an impact in a way that something else couldn't - Volcanion handles snow just fine, you aren't really vulnerable to Incineroar or Raging Bolt, and it doesn't beat Pao (which you also don't struggle with too badly), so what's it doing?

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also 0 SpA Moonblast does more than 252 Atk Spirit Break lol

peak crypt
# knotty lotus https://pokepast.es/8e195b5e52c71638

It's generally a bad idea to commit this hard to a weather condition in DOU; there are multiple good weather setters and Tornadus is liable to run a weather move on top of Tailwind, so maintaining your weather advantage can be really difficult

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Some of these sets are also pretty odd and don't work great with each other - Eruption Torkoal really doesn't succeed without Lilligant or Trick Room, Clear Amulet doesn't stop Draco Meteor's SpA drop, and Assault Vest doesn't make a ton of sense on a Tusk with zero bulk investment

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my best advice on this team is honestly to pick two of your current sun abusers and drop the other three - either build towards supporting the Torkoal better, or just fill the empty slots with Pokemon that are good

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Hearthflame Ogerpon would be a great substitution over Gouging Fire, for example

orchid stump
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rose juniper
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Hey

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I assume this team is Gastro focused?

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@orchid stump

orchid stump
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yeah

rose juniper
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alright

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there is some improvement to be made

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do you wanna keep all the same pokemon?

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cause if so we'll just work on the sets instead

orchid stump
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yeah same mons

rose juniper
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alright I made some set changes

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ill go through them one by one

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but ill start of with saying that idt banded pao is great and you are prob better of with the sash set but I kept it banded with some changes

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I also noticed overall that you went for a lot of bulk and or speed on mons that rather have it the otherway around

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you always wanna make sure you're using the strengths of a pokemon to their fullest

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for example poa has a great speed stat you wanna invest into speed to make good use out of that

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gastrodon has a great HP stat so you wanna use that instead of its bad speed stat

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so always make sure to check what the pokemon you wanna use is good at and go with that

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ill start with the gastro changes

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I didn't see a reason why gastro needed max speed and a clear amulet so I instead gave it a more balanced spread with the focus on bulk and gave it lefties to help with that

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gastro rather has bulk and longevity then speed that can't be used

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I also gave it protect and earthpower over icy and smog

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since you want double stab and protect is generally speaking a good move on every pokemon in doubles

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and you shouldn't be clicking smog and icy all that often anyways

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Sinistcha is another pokemon that rather has bulk then anything else so sash isn't necessary, sash is best used for frail but strong and fast attackers

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I gave it plot since you seem to enjoy a bit of power on your mons and lifedew as another healing option but also to boost gastros spatk stat when you click it

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I gave peli a bit more speed to outspeed bundle and pao under tailwind and gave it hurricane over pump

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you rather use both types for its stab then 2 stabs of the same type

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ogerpon is another mon that rather does have some speed\

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especially since lando is super common in the tier and this guy has enough speed to outspeed him and OHKO him with ivy

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I also removed stomping since you rather use spikey on him

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with Pao I gave him throat chop since you rather don't be stuck in something like sucker when you're banded and this allows you to be more versatile with its dark typing

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and gave it speed since poa is made to be fast and frail, HP invest won't save him from anything but with speed you can get kills before stuff kills you

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and lastly for bolt

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bolt wants to be bulky so it can get some calm minds up and get his power from that instead

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so I made bolt more bulky to allow it to use its set up better

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and swapped out thunder for protect since you don't need clap and thunder, just clap should be enough

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hope that helps :))

orchid stump
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thanks

reef crest
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

reef crest
#

And diance has mental herb ^

unborn marten
# reef crest https://pokepast.es/0f8ee4dd9a16681b Wanted to utilize gaurd split lmk if I coul...

I would change farig to goggles - cloak is best used to stop fake out and you have armor tail already. you probably also want something other than thunder wave here, probably just hyper voice. it's a bit anti synergistic with your trick room mode. Consider putting hard stone, goggles, or covert cloak on your diancie (can't always have it and farig out at the same time) and change the tera to probably dragon or a gholdengo resist like fire or water. on ursaluma, hyper voice isn't going to do much for you, as it's a special move. you could use substitute, swords dance, or close combat. you also don't need so much defense investment, better to put it in attack or special defense

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not having body press on diancie is rough, but that's kind of what you have to give up to use guard split i guess. you're already leaning hard on a slow/tr mode for this team so landorus is maybe not him, but if you were to use scarf and maybe tera ghost you'd be in a better spot, or just replace it with ogerpon-w

reef crest
wispy kindle
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

autumn cove
torpid moat
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if they're legal, stakataka and zygarde are better options

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there are issues with the sets as well like sand force protectless lando and trick room mega diancie

torpid moat
autumn cove
brittle spade
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you have double fake out on a team with psychic terrain

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i'd also pick a tera that gets rid of hoopa's horrible typing

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not dying to uturn is considered good

torpid moat
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you should seriously consider zygarde, stakataka, excadrill, mamoswine, or mega camerupt depending on what direction you want the team to go

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a lot of them would cover weaknesses or missing roles

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or just be strong options

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also rhyperior is probably better than rhydon even considering eviolite

autumn cove
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Zygarde and stakataka are banned in nat dex doubles, thought of putting excadrill or mamoswine but dont know Who i should chnage

torpid moat
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if you want something "balanced", probably dd mega ttar/exca/diancie/blood moon/rhyperior/lando t

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if you want a little more trick room focus, maybe something like mega camel/diancie/runerigus/rhyperior/ttar/exca

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the trick room is a lot more iffy without stakataka though

autumn cove
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Ty

torpid moat
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if you end up keeping garchomp though clear amulet is a way better item

autumn cove
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With that one, i use 3 fast 3 slow?

torpid moat
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yeah, ttar lando exca would lean fast

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rest would perform best in tr

autumn cove
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Okk, also does It change a lot in vgc?

torpid moat
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it depends on the vgc reg you're playing

autumn cove
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4 Pokémons lvl 50

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Bittype

torpid moat
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vgc has different mon pools, and if you're playing a restricted format groudon would be your only real choice

#

yeah that's all vgc, and to be clear vgc is bring 6 pick 4

autumn cove
#

Its nacional dex doubles

#

Gen 9

#

Groudon is banned right in nat dex

torpid moat
#

what does vgc mean then?

autumn cove
#

Being 6 pick 4

torpid moat
#

vgc isn't natdex dou

autumn cove
#

Thats what the organizers want to do

torpid moat
#

so that's your only extra rule?

#

everything else same?

autumn cove
#

I think so

torpid moat
#

the team probably wouldn't be different, in fact it would be much stronger

#

mainly because diancie sole tr setter is a bit of a bottleneck in 6v6

autumn cove
#

Nice then

torpid moat
#

oh btw you should consider rock ogerpon for follow me now that I think about it

autumn cove
#

What does that do?

torpid moat
#

it's rock grass and uses follow me to protect allies

#

on top of being a good standalone attacker

autumn cove
#

In that case Who should i change It for?

torpid moat
#

on the 6 I listed it'd replace lando probably

autumn cove
#

Really?

#

Ill try it

torpid moat
#

it would rather replace rhyperior but that one is stuck

autumn cove
#

Btw in that team there isnt a supoort right?

torpid moat
#

diancie and rockpon would be supports technically

autumn cove
quaint crystal
#

Hi guys, im new to DOU and getting back into showdown, so this is my current team thats been having decent success in the lower ladder!

#

This build is supposed to work as a synergetic Team that balances Trick Room and Grassy Seed to enhance the survivability and speed of Gogoat, Goodra, and Diancie as Arboliva Smeargle and Incineroar act as Support, Set up, and Disruptors

Gogoat is the primary, synergizing with Trick Room and Grassy Terrain to set up his high def and atk potential, with a fire tera type for its reliable resistances and countering attempted checks!

Arboliva is the Defense and Support, w Eject Button working as a both a pivot for Gogoat or others depending on the situation while simultaneously setting up the grassy terrain

Incineroar and Smeargle work as Openers and Set uppers in the early game with switch out moves to allow for pivoting, while also working as disruptors throughout the match in the mid-late game

Goodra works as a Defensive mid-late game buffer that can counter fairies with Stab Heavy Slam and Surf to hit both enemies and to synergize with seed sower, as well as dragon tail to halt team set ups

Diancie works as a General All Rounder in order to allow flexibility to situations depending on what role she needs to fill from Defence, Offence, Set up. Iron Defence-Body Press allows for countering normal and steel type walls such as Porygon 2 and an additional trickroom to allow for priority in the mid-late game against faster teams

#

If you have any advice on team building, movesets or strategies please lmk!

torpid moat
#

you would pretty much always rather spend a defensive tera on one of your other mons like diancie

torpid moat
#

even smeargle only fits on very niche teams that want decorate

#

you can find several diancie teams like it with explanations here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/12-months-of-sv-dlc-2-a-look-back-the-us-west-team-dump.3757399/

Smogon Forums
Resource - 12 Months of SV DLC 2: A Look Back + The US West Team Dump

posted with approval from Arcticblast dont fight me
Two years ago, US West took it's first title, led by DOU Villain [redacted], all time great manager Fespy, and DOU Legend Stax and featuring future US West Staples such as ESM, myself, Lemurro, and zom. One year ago, a less enthusiastic US...

quaint crystal
#

I see i see 😢

#

makes sense

#

tho deep down apart of me yearns to create a semi usable gogoat comp

quaint crystal
torpid moat
#

steel not so much because they force tera

#

and gholdengo in particular is fighting immune

#

it's more about inevitability than specifically wallbreaking

#

diamond storm is just a busted move on its own, and if opp takes too much time trying to pivot around it in trick room, then body press becomes very threatening after a few boosts

quaint crystal
#

I see

#

that makes sense

quaint crystal
torpid moat
#

so doubles should not have set leads really, you lead based on your opponent's options

quaint crystal
#

Right right, im just saying like under ideal circumstances

torpid moat
#

rilla + diancie is your "tr lead"

#

that's the one with the highest chance of successful tr if opp doesn't have an answer

#

tr lead is only good if tr is good in the matchup

quaint crystal
#

what does tr mean?

torpid moat
#

trick room

quaint crystal
#

ah lmao im dumb

torpid moat
#

mew diancie and rilla bolt also exist as greedy setup leads

quaint crystal
#

whats mews role? Midgame support and disruptoer

#

ah gotcha

torpid moat
#

mew is snarl/wisp for weakening opps

#

and pollen puff/coaching for support

#

it's an okay lead sometimes if there's enough good wisp targets

#

good targets ideally being slower than mew

quaint crystal
#

gotcha gotcha

torpid moat
#

just as a disclaimer I don't consider the team I sent to even be one of the strongest diancie builds

#

it just happens to be one that most directly outclasses your team concept

quaint crystal
#

gotcha

torpid moat
#

I prefer sinistcha a lot more than rilla, and mew can get clunky sometimes

#

mew makes gholdengo matchup a lot worse, which is the strongest diancie check

quaint crystal
#

what would you say are the most fundamental flaws of my team concept

torpid moat
#

mons too weak

quaint crystal
#

like with strategy, gameplan, movepool, checks etc

#

well other than weak mons haha

#

i udnerstand that but once i have better mons what should i learn/unlearn fundamentally

torpid moat
#

so when I say weak I don't just mean raw stats

#

I also mean mons having poor role compression and offering little support or utility

#

rilla for example provides fake out for disruption and much more controlled pivoting with u turn

#

on top of more control over the terrain set

#

raging bolt similarly is as tanky as goodra while also carrying either setup for itself, or more support options like snarl and volt switch and electroweb on the vest set

#

and yeah your movesets weren't optimal, like diancie missing diamond storm, which is the main reason to use it, or the weird smeargle and arboliva sets

#

smeargle mostly being just plain out of place

quaint crystal
#

gotcha gotcha

#

thank you youre advice has been v helpful^^

quaint crystal
peak crypt
#

Sinistcha is usually a dedicated support

#

the most common moveset is Matcha Gotcha / Rage Powder / Life Dew / Trick Room

#

with Shadow Ball sometimes slotting in over Life Dew or TR

quaint crystal
#

gotcha

#

what item is usually ran?

peak crypt
#

Sitrus Berry

wispy kindle
brittle spade
bright salmon
#

I'm new to competitive pokemon and trying to build a Doubles OU team. I also love shiny hunting so I am trying to use only shiny pokemon. I have three pokemon and am hoping for suggestions on three others. Thanks in adavance!

Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD
Nature: Careful
Fake Out
Flare Blitz
Knock Off
Parting Shot

Rillaboom @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Nature: Adamant
Fake Out
Grassy Glide
Wood Hammer
U-turn

Tornadus - Base @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
Tailwind
Bleakwind Storm
Taunt / Rain Dance / Sunny Day (Weather Team)
Protect

pls @ me with any responses

solar island
#

Hello! Also new to competitve play. I'm not too great at doubles, but I have already won a few battles with this team. (also the reason I'm not using legendaries is because they're gonna be banned anyway in the main games and I'm not using the mushroom cuz I hate it!

Anyway What do you think of this team? @ with any response.

Toxia (Toxapex) (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Baneful Bunker
Recover
Venoshock
Toxic Spikes

Pickles (Skarmory) (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
Protect
Stealth Rock
Whirlwind
Dual Wingbeat

Faith (Tropius) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Leech Seed
Substitute
Energy Ball
Protect

Gargoyle (Grimmsnarl) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
Bulk Up
Brick Break
Spirit Break
Protect

Jack (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 240 SpD / 20 Spe
Jolly Nature
Swords Dance
Earthquake
Facade
Protect

Nightmare (Blissey) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Seismic Toss
Soft-Boiled
Heal Pulse
Protect

#

Don't underestimate the Tropius, girl is a stall QUEEN!

torpid moat
bright salmon
#

yea ik im just looking for ideas

#

anything helps

torpid moat
#

having the rilla for grassy recovery kinda implies having some setup mon like cm raging bolt or np ghold

#

either of the two fits very reasonably on this kind of balance

#

sheer force lando-i would also fit quite well

bright salmon
#

is there any like roles that a team needs that im missing

torpid moat
#

attackers

bright salmon
#

cuz ive genuinley never played a competitive battle in my life

torpid moat
#

you currently have 2 glues + speed control from torn

bright salmon
#

so u think i got enough support basically

#

now i just need damage output

torpid moat
#

but no attackers to put up real pressure yeah

bright salmon
#

and i prob want at least one good special and physical attacker right

torpid moat
#

and having the rilla + incin suggests also having some kind of tanky setup wincon

bright salmon
#

any examples

torpid moat
#

ghold or bolt as mentioned

bright salmon
#

oh ok

#

ik that urshifu is pretty common also

solar island
#

Gholdengo is such a threat sometimes but falls to two earthquakes easily

torpid moat
#

you don't actually need to care that much about phys or special balance

bright salmon
#

is that the same role or diff from bolt and goldengho

torpid moat
#

different role, also urshifu is banned in doubles ou

bright salmon
#

oh ok

torpid moat
#

urshi is an attacker that just deals immediate damage

#

and the sig move always critting means it can't be mitigated by intimidate

bright salmon
#

is my team considered slow to the point where id want trick room

torpid moat
#

and also can't be protected against from its ability

#

trick room diancie is a potential option/direction you could go

#

I'll warn you though that not many people play dou on cart

#

if it's actually on a nintendo switch, you should look into vgc of various regs

bright salmon
torpid moat
#

and if you're playing vgc then you should think about running a restricted mon

bright salmon
#

i shiny hunted flutter mane and have one

#

is that good

torpid moat
#

in the current vgc format, you're allowed to run 1 box legend like calyrex shadow etc

#

flutter is quite good but it's not actually restricted

bright salmon
#

on smogon it says it is

#

i thought it wasnt tho

torpid moat
#

it's banned from doubles ou

#

are you playing doubles ou or are you playing vgc?

bright salmon
#

idk tbh

#

i have no clue what im doing lmfao

#

it sounds like i should do vgc tho

torpid moat
#

so if you're playing on your switch, you're playing vgc

bright salmon
#

yea

#

then vgc

torpid moat
#

you should also check out rental teams:

#

should give you a better idea of team structure and what mons are good and what they run

solar island
#

Mind rating mine next if that's alright? I'm trying to build here first before making the team real

bright salmon
#

ok ty

torpid moat
#

so the same applies to you, I don't think you're actually playing doubles ou

#

but regardless, stall is inherently unviable in pretty much every doubles format

#

that kind of team will just die to attackers double targeting your stuff as they ignore the partner

solar island
#

Even with Protect strats?

torpid moat
#

even with protect

#

you aren't putting up threat in a meaningful timeframe

#

so they will just focus fire and kill your mons one by one

#

it's just inherently impossible to wall 2 mons at the same time

solar island
#

They're being chipped if either Skarmory or Toxia set up their spikes

torpid moat
#

yes, but not chipped in a quick enough timeframe

#

skarm and pex can both be killed in 3 turns maximum

solar island
#

Any different mons I could use then? I like the stall strats (especially since it makes some forfiet out of attention span)

torpid moat
#

more often 1-2

#

so there are "grindy" teams out there

#

but they're more like teams that have heavy damage mitigation and trade up rather than purely stall

#

your opp won't just have free reign to get kills without fear

#

this for example is as close to stall as you should ever get

#

it chips mons down with ting lu and glimm, but for a specific purpose

solar island
#

Would Ting Lu be better over Skarmory?

torpid moat
#

that being weakening health so dnite espeed can finish off

solar island
#

Seems its running a similar set as my Skar

torpid moat
#

ting lu is a better mon than skarm yes

#

but switching it in will not fix your team

solar island
#

Isn't it gonna be banned in Vgc though?

torpid moat
#

also no?

solar island
#

Oh

#

I thought like every legend was going down lmao

torpid moat
#

I'm not aware of a new vgc reg being announced

#

didn't we just go back to restricted format?

solar island
#

Dunno lmao

#

Hah-

#

I'm very very new i've never built a team for doubles before

#

Singles Monotype was where I thrived (that's why I have like three flying types whoops)

#

I'll try Ting-Lu

#

Anyone else I could edit?

torpid moat
#

so again you're missing my advice

solar island
#

It is rather vauge for new folks tbh-

torpid moat
#

I'm telling you to not run a stall team

solar island
#

Ah

#

All out offense doesn't work very well either though.

torpid moat
#

yeah but I just showed you an example of an attrition based team that actually works

#

that isn't stall

#

all out offense definitely does work though

#

as long as you have important support like speed control

#

also trick room checks

solar island
#

Wait wouldn't getting Ting-Lu in the game be difficult? It's just soft resetting. I'm trying to also get this team into the game.

torpid moat
#

if you're planning on playing it on your switch, then you likely wanna be playing vgc

solar island
#

I'm building here, testing, then gonna learn how the heck competitive mons in the main game work lol

#

Since teams will be rather similar

torpid moat
#

you can play vgc on pokemon showdown too you know

#

the current vgc regulation is G, which allows 1 box legend, and then any number of other mons like ting lu and tornadus etc

#

box legend being stuff like koraidon and ho-oh

solar island
#

Main reason is cuz my friend is inviting me to the Pokemon International thing this summer so I wanted to finally try out a battle

torpid moat
#

you can just jump into games on pokemon showdown in the meantime, or use rental teams on nintendo switch

torpid moat
#

you can use those teams on both pokemon showdown and your switch, without building them first

#

the best way to learn is to play with a wide variety of teams to learn the format

#

but yeah regardless of what doubles format you're playing, you should use what's actually viable to learn the format instead of stall

torpid moat
#

you really just need to catch the mon once

#

ting-lu isn't as good in vgc though

#

if you're playing vgc you should check the rental teams I linked for examples

solar island
#

Hm aight

torpid moat
#

getting correct nature when catching can save you some time grinding for nature mints though so it's sometimes worth depending on what resources you have in game

#

there are guides online for training mons

#

but that's really just a time sink, the important part is getting better at the game

#

which you can only do with lots of practice and study

bright salmon
#

@torpid moat urshifu water type is the popular one right?

torpid moat
#

yup

wispy kindle
swift fog
limber lantern
#

Paladin (Snorlax) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 162 Atk / 252 Def / 92 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

  • Belly Drum
  • Facade
  • High Horsepower
  • Protect

Druid (Sinistcha-Masterpiece) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hospitality
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

  • Trick Room
  • Matcha Gotcha
  • Strength Sap
  • Rage Powder

Fighter (Ogerpon-Hearthflame) (F) @ Hearthflame Mask
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

  • Ivy Cudgel
  • Wood Hammer
  • Swords Dance
  • Spiky Shield

Monk (Incineroar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

  • Parting Shot
  • Fake Out
  • Knock Off
  • Will-O-Wisp

Bard (Clefairy) @ Eviolite
Ability: Friend Guard
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

  • Helping Hand
  • Heal Pulse
  • Follow Me
  • Protect

Wizard (Archaludon) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Stamina
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

  • Flash Cannon
  • Draco Meteor
  • Meteor Beam
  • Aura Sphere

this is a Team i played last year, what switches can I do, to make this work again, btw i want to play doubles ou, so archaeludon needs to go

north moat
#

so yesterday i build my first ever doubles team for pvp my team consists of this urshifu holding a life and with the ability unseen fist orb tornadus with the prankster ability incineroar with intimidate grimmsnarl with prankster and koraidon i get beat every match i was in so i was just wondering if what i did wrong i want a team that urshifu can be on so my question is did i have a good team i just didnt know how to utilise or is my team just not good

peak crypt
#

@swift fog @north moat both of you should check the VGC Rates channel; you both appear to be looking for help with VGC teams, not DOU teams (which belong here)

swift fog
torpid moat
#

I would also try indeedee-f over clef, with trick room/follow me + any 2 of helping hand/heal pulse/psychic/protect

#

you should also either be using either gluttony figy berry snorlax, or thick fat sitrus

#

with gluttony, figy is just objectively better than sitrus because it'll heal 33%

#

while thick fat can protect from a lot of common attackers like kyurem and chi yu

#

not (nontera) firepon though because of mold breaker

limber lantern
limber lantern
limber lantern
# torpid moat probably diancie over arch then, hard stone diamond storm/body press/trick room/...

Paladin (Snorlax) @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 162 Atk / 252 Def / 92 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

  • Facade
  • High Horsepower
  • Protect
  • Belly Drum

Druid (Sinistcha-Masterpiece) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hospitality
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

  • Trick Room
  • Matcha Gotcha
  • Strength Sap
  • Rage Powder

Monk (Incineroar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

  • Parting Shot
  • Fake Out
  • Knock Off
  • Flare Blitz

Bard (Clefairy) @ Eviolite
Ability: Friend Guard
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

  • Helping Hand
  • Heal Pulse
  • Follow Me
  • Alluring Voice

Muscle Man (Diancie) @ Hard Stone
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

  • Trick Room
  • Diamond Storm
  • Body Press
  • Protect

Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 200 HP / 124 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature

  • Ivy Cudgel
  • Horn Leech
  • Brick Break
  • Spiky Shield

i changed it to this

torpid moat
#

especially so if you cut firepon for waterpon ghold will be a big issue here

unkempt light
#

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Grass Pledge
  • Calm Mind
  • Leaf Storm
  • Leech Seed

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Water Pledge
  • Protect
  • Earth Power
  • Ice Beam

Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

  • Dragon Dance
  • Dragon Claw
  • Knock Off
  • Iron Head

Gholdengo @ Air Balloon
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Shadow Ball
  • Make It Rain
  • Nasty Plot
  • Protect

Chien-Pao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

  • Ice Spinner
  • Crunch
  • Ice Shard
  • Protect

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Effect Spore
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Rage Powder
  • Spore
  • Pollen Puff
  • Protect
torpid moat
#

as for the rest, swamp pledge really isn't that useful over tailwind, and the team isn't taking much advantage of it

neon wind
#

What we thinkin

IMG_2001.png
torpid moat
#

is this a singles team?

slim fulcrum
#

Somebody tell me how bad my team is and what I can do to make it better plz

plush otter
#

...

#

you have a lot of conflicting strategies

slim fulcrum
#

Well yeah ik but I can't really find a good setup for the sun team I want

plush otter
#

you have three pokemon strong in sun, a snow setter, a rain boosted mon, what kind of strategy do you want first of all?

slim fulcrum
#

I don't have any rain boosted mons

plush otter
#

water taurous

slim fulcrum
#

Yeah he's kinda just there for intimidate

#

I wanted to run Articuno with Ninetails but they don't allow the snow cloak ability so it was kinda pointless

plush otter
#

ok, you want sun...do you want a faster paced sun team? or a slower one to function in trick room?

#

yah, evasion boosted abilities are illegal

slim fulcrum
#

Well right now my main sun setup is meant to out speed and either solar beam or flamethrower but it's obvious got a lot of weaknesses

plush otter
#

outspeed...ok

slim fulcrum
#

There's not many mons that get the double speed from the sun tho

#

And most of them are kinda garbage

plush otter
#
  1. replace scovillian with liligant hisui, its the strongest chlorophyl user
slim fulcrum
#

That's like the teams whole thing tho I want it to run scovillain

#

Not to trash your advice or anything

plush otter
#

ok, what niche does it provide?

#

in english, what does it do well?

slim fulcrum
#

You mean what in my special brain does it trigger to make me happy?

#

Oh ok

#

It destroys anything weak to grass or fire verywell

plush otter
#

ok, counterpoint: torkoal

slim fulcrum
#

He's kinda bad

#

And that's the main issue

plush otter
#

i recommend liligant because it gets the move after you

#

with the double speed boost, it can make torkoal go first, then kaboom

slim fulcrum
#

Interesting I kinda like that but I don't think torkoal being faster would make much of a difference in my position

#

He doesn't really do much but setup sun and tank

plush otter
#

oh trust me, tera fire charcoal eruption is a nuke

slim fulcrum
#

Yeah but one water type and it's over for him

plush otter
#

make sure you max the special attack though

#

the only water type you need to worry about is pelliper

slim fulcrum
#

Do you think the team im running right now it at all viable?

#

Is*

plush otter
#

no

#

it has way too many off setting strategies

#

im trying to help, and answer questions at the same time

slim fulcrum
#

Well let's just say scovillain was forced to be a staying component in my team how would you set that up?

#

If that's to difficult of a question for you that's fine I'm not trying to force you to build a team for me or anything

plush otter
#

lets skip him for now...i'll work on it

#

ok, next goober on my hit list...armarougue

slim fulcrum
#

He's actually pretty useful

plush otter
#

why are you manually setting up terrain?

slim fulcrum
#

Is there a better way I could be doing it without giving myself an even bigger weakness?

plush otter
#

ok, let me ask this...are you doing it to block priority? or is there another reason?

slim fulcrum
#

For the bonus damage on his expanding force mainly

plush otter
#

k...

slim fulcrum
#

I didn't even know it helped with priorities

plush otter
#

yeah, psychic terrain blocks priority to everyone but flying types

slim fulcrum
#

I thought it might have given me priority but I realized it didn't when I used it the first time and was kinda confused

#

My main issue is that one counter to and my team is basically gone

plush otter
#

ok lets see here...since you are trying to go fast, and need a guy strong against pelliper...is raging bolt

#

sure, it's slow, but it's really strong, and gets its own form of priority in thunderclap

#

it's an electric dragon that learns a lot of mighty lightning and dragon attacks

slim fulcrum
#

Yeah I ran him for a few tries but I can't really find a decent combo for him and he dies for nothing usually

plush otter
#

what were you pairing it with?

slim fulcrum
#

Ninetails or something else I was running I don't really remember

plush otter
#

so lets see here, moving on...if you want bulk, maybe grimmsnarl could be the way to go.

slim fulcrum
#

The 3 that have been on my team as a mainstay have been Ninetails scovillain and torkoal

plush otter
#

priority setting up screens to boost your defenses is key

slim fulcrum
#

I've tried snarl but I don't know how to use him

#

I keep trying to use him as a physical sweepee

plush otter
#

plus taunt to halt tornadus or tailwind

slim fulcrum
#

Sweeper*

plush otter
#

he's more of a support mon tbh

#

give him light clay, then reflect, light screen, taunt, spirit break are good options

slim fulcrum
#

Yeah I get that but I feel like having him on the same team as Ninetails would be kinda pointless

plush otter
#

ninetails is going bye bye

slim fulcrum
#

They both are gonna die to the same thing

#

Yeah I suspected that much

plush otter
#

hail will mess with the sun strategy too much

slim fulcrum
#

But Arora veil is pretty good although it never really goes anywhere

#

Yeah I've had it kill me a few times

plush otter
#

it depends too much on snow staying up to even think about setting it up tbh

#

ok, so lets see here...so far we got
scovillian
raging bolt
grimmsnarl

slim fulcrum
#

I just can't find anything that will set me up

#

I'll test a few of those strate

plush otter
#

torkoal

slim fulcrum
#

Strats

plush otter
#

last two mons...

#

hmmm

slim fulcrum
#

Ok

plush otter
#

sneasler...

#

i'll think about him

#

but taurous is going bye bye haha

slim fulcrum
#

Lol yeah he was my newest change

plush otter
#

his water type moves will loose power in sun, but do you truly desire intimidate?

slim fulcrum
#

Just trying to find something to help me take care of the ground types that haunt my dream

plush otter
#

which ground types are giving you issues?

slim fulcrum
#

Ursaluna is a pos

plush otter
#

in trick room?

slim fulcrum
#

Then I think I also was having issues with fairy types

#

Yeah trick room users are mean to me

plush otter
#

hmmm

slim fulcrum
#

Like clefable be making me so mad because it tanks everything

plush otter
#

is it mainly from indeedee? or the girafe?

slim fulcrum
#

Yeah

plush otter
#

ok, then you just nuke it off the board the instant it shows itself

#

where was I? oh right

slim fulcrum
#

Yeah but often times they pair them with something that can do it to me too

#

I tried running the one water dark mon

plush otter
#

once tr goes up maybe

slim fulcrum
#

I forgot it's name for some reason

#

It's a starter

#

But I couldn't figure out how to use it

plush otter
#

i know what you're referring to

#

ok...

#

hmm

slim fulcrum
#

The one with ceasless edge

#

Not Greninja

#

I tried Greninja too tho and he didn't really do anything for my team either

#

I can probably change alot of the moves I'm using but I'm just not savvy in what moves are super good like I know what the moves are and what they do but I just can't figure out how to set up specifically for them

#

I love to spam solar beam tho

plush otter
#

gimme a minute forging a suggestions team for ye

slim fulcrum
#

Alright

plush otter
slim fulcrum
#

Interesting

#

I might replace grass knot depending on how useful it is but I kinda like it

plush otter
#

grass knot as a reliable damage option just in case

slim fulcrum
#

Why am I running rage powder on scovillain he's not tanking much of anything

plush otter
#

him being able to divert damage from one attack can be a game changer at times

torpid moat
#

hey, just so you're aware, probably the main niche for scovillain is spicy extract

#

it's otherwise significantly worse than lilli yeah

plush otter
#

does scovillian get baton pass or something to make the boost worth it?

torpid moat
#

spicy extract targets others, not self

#

you pair it with diancie or a clear amulet mon

#

like it's still not very viable but that's the one unique thing scovillain can do

plush otter
#

ooh, ok

#

odd, when i skimmed it, i thought it only targeted itself haha

torpid moat
#

maybe like torkoal/cb clear body dragapult/chien pao

#

would be a reasonable starting core

#

with scovillain ofc

#

and then after that you need diancie checks

plush otter
#

true, i guess i tried too hard to make a sun team without considering strengths around scovillian

torpid moat
#

let's say gholdengo first

#

landorus-i is another good option

#

though not as good defensively

plush otter
#

if you're on still joshua, i'd ask yellow questions haha, they know more about team building than i do haha

torpid moat
#

the cute part of spicy extract over other moves is that after you've boosted one of your mons once, you can spicy the opponent too for quadruple damage

#

it's cute, not good btw

#

@slim fulcrum above

#

torkoal/spicy extract scovillain/choice band clear body dragapult/chien pao/gholdengo

#

ah I take ghold back that's too incin weak

#

fine, lando-i over ghold

#

torkoal/scovillain/pult/pao/lando

#

still on the frail side, still no speed control

#

ideally want something with positive diancie matchup

#

pult can carry steel wing but that's not enough of a real answer

#

oh nvm I was thinking of gapdos it doesn't get steel moves

plush otter
#

maybe ursaluna bloodmoon?

torpid moat
#

not ideal either, blood moon needs speed control to function

plush otter
#

true

#

i didn't give him trick room or tailwind

torpid moat
#

alright fine, try diancie last then

#

team will still be quite unbalanced but that's kinda what you get when you're gimmicking like that

sand herald
#

Is this any good?

Screenshot_20250312_212002_Chrome.jpg
torpid moat
# sand herald Is this any good?

tales wants ghost or dark tera, kyurem is better assault vest with earth power > draco, rain dance torn doesn't fit at all, ghold would rather be dragon tera leftovers + protect > recover, garchomp should be replaced probably

#

oh also moonblast tales is better than dazzling, also it needs max speed

#

maybe swords dance waterpon in the chomp slot?

sand herald
#

is there no other set for garchomp that could make it viable

#

its my favorite pokemon and I really wanna use it on the team

#

Or should I stick to playing DUU...

peak crypt
#

Unfortunately Garchomp has not been particularly good in any Doubles OU format

#

It has really cool stats but it has a lot of shortcomings—its STAB moves are either weak or risky, it’s vulnerable to Intimidate, and its weaknesses are relatively common attacking types

torpid moat
#

clear amulet is pretty much mandatory on chomp

peak crypt
#

It also has to share the Ground-type limelight with Landorus an awful lot

torpid moat
#

but yeah it has a very similar speed tier to lando and lando hits so much harder

peak crypt
#

you would probably find more success Chomping in DUU, where it is a bit stronger relative to the field and it can get away with a couple unique support Pokémon more easily

sand herald
#

Ig I'll be playing DOU without chomp for now, thanks a lot for the advice

unkempt light
tender skiff
#

Hiii

#

could I get some advice on my team for the SV double OU if possible :D

#

This was built for VGC reg H but we're (my friend and I) are still trying to make it work for Double OU

peak crypt
#

and to be perfectly honest it’s pretty messy for a Reg H team too

#

Your best bet changing as few Pokemon as possible would be to keep Incin / Indeedee / Gallade and make it a hard Trick Room team

#

You could maybe instead keep Tink Incin Prim and build some sort of bulky offense, but Tinkaton and Primarina are nowhere near best in slot for what they do on that sort of team

worthy cave
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rose juniper
#

But would you mind telling me in the meantime what the idea behind the team is?

#

Do you just want a strong team or do you wanna use your favorite pokemon

#

Or whatever else

worthy cave
tight spire
#

You could just go standard sun fullroom by replacing indeedeM with its female form, adding a hatterene, etc

rose juniper
#

for now id say its prolly best to play with some samples first to get an idea of whats good and whats not before you start building, here are the samples: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-sample-teams.3710876/post-9399767

Smogon Forums
Resource - Doubles OU Sample Teams

Art by GenOne

Welcome to the Sample Teams thread! This thread is meant to highlight the best of the best teams in the Doubles OU tier. Sample Teams are exemplary teams that have proven themselves to be good and are basic enough for beginners to use, allowing them to pick up the fundamentals of...

#

the main advice ill give for now (besides to use some samples first) is to not put 6 pokemon on a team you think are strong but rather try to as fangame already said focus on a certain structure or direction first and then try to find pokemon that work within that framework

civic trail
peak crypt
#

The answer is they need work everywhere, unfortunately

#

You’ve chosen a lot of Pokémon that are not very good, and adding weather isn’t enough to save them

#

and Iron Valiant is a really mediocre Pokemon in DOU

#

I’d recommend trying out some of the sample teams linked right above your message, or at least looking at them and viewing other forum resources; these will help you learn what Pokémon and strategies tend to see the most success

#

also in the future please try to only post one team at a time @civic trail

inland parcel
#

https://pokepast.es/b2d7d2fc52fa5d03
I’m in a gym leader server and we host frequent tournaments
This is the team is use against the other players most often
It’s mono type, 1 legend per team, 1 paradox per team 6v6 doubles
I win a good amount times but I want to know if there’s something I can improve
It’s all on the official games so this is my in game team

torpid moat
inland parcel
#

Yes 1 legend and 1 paradox

#

I’ll try crown out, I like the screen support, and it helps malamar boost up

#

I just copied it, had Tera blast on malamar to beat 1 fairy team

torpid moat
#

yeah I was gonna say that knock off should be prefable over blast on malamar

orchid stump
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tribal plinth
peak crypt
#

I actually think I’m with Serafina - this looks like you’ve taken a pile of decent Pokemon but not really considered what makes them good

#

and then added an Armarouge on a team that shouldn’t have Armarouge

wispy kindle
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

brittle spade
#

otherwise you're just going to automatically lose to opposing tailwind

wispy kindle
#

ok thanks

tribal plinth
wispy kindle
plush otter
peak crypt
#

I think Slither Wing, Typhlosion, and Regidrago all demand a certain amount of team resources, and you certainly shouldn't have all three, let alone two

#

and I think Hands is probably unnecessary if you are attempting to use Slither Wing

#

I think Slither probably fits well into the "Tailwind for balance and Trick Room for offense" sort of teams

#

where you have two different methods of speed control based on the situation

#

something like Slither / Gambit / Tornadus / Farigiraf / Rillaboom / Hearthflame or Wellspring looks reasonable

#

Slither can threaten a big Close Combat into Incineroar, who would be a pain for Rilla and Hearthflame otherwise

plush otter
#

i see...

peak crypt
#

you can use Whims over Tornadus if you want to stick with what you're comfortable with, and you can try Focus Energy or Grassy Glide on the Hearthflame too

plush otter
#

interesting...i'll give it a shot haha

plush otter
#

any potential substitutes for tera types on the giraffe and rillaboom?

peak crypt
#

Farig could be Fairy but Rillaboom runs Fire at almost every single opportunity

plush otter
#

ok

limpid pollen
#

hi guys does anyone wna rate !!

torpid moat
#

however, the main issue is probably that the mons as a whole are too weak, you're just not using any particularly broken attackers, and not a worthwhile payoff for trick room either

#

prima is just too weak, there are stronger offensive options like iron hands and kingambit and raging bolt. If you wanna lean into tr, should look into ursaluna over garchomp, who works very well with cress

#

because the support isn't there for wp pult, maybe try choice band, or a more standalone mon like chien pao

tribal plinth
#

and ur cooked if ur facing an actual tr team bc ur slowest pkm still hae stats in speed

peak crypt
#

Sneasler is not actually better than Chien-Pao, and Whimsicott is pretty hard to justify over Tornadus

#

especially when Maus is perfectly capable of Encoring instead

#

the Incin, Rilla, and Gho sets are also pretty suboptimal - Incin usually wants Boots and more bulk investment, standard Rilla is AV max HP, and Gholdengo also typically runs bulkier

#

something more like this

#

I think the Maushold would be better off as a Wellspring but I don't want to change all of the unique things

#

also if you think you're in the "need help with teams" demographic, you probably shouldn't also be helping other people with teams

#

especially after an official rater has helped someone else with that team

#

@tribal plinth

#

(also 8 Def on the Maus, not Attack; I had Pop Bomb originally but felt it probably needed to go for Gholdengo to actually succeed)

torpid moat
#

wide lens (not loaded dice) offensive maus actually does have an okay niche too

#

but only with pao+torn on the team

#

though with ghold there friend guard does make more sense

red agate
warped arrow
warped arrow
# red agate https://pokepast.es/935009d0e3906118

to quote Hugo “for now id say its prolly best to play with some samples first to get an idea of whats good and whats not before you start building, here are the samples:” https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-sample-teams.3710876/post-9399767

Smogon Forums
Resource - Doubles OU Sample Teams

Art by GenOne

Welcome to the Sample Teams thread! This thread is meant to highlight the best of the best teams in the Doubles OU tier. Sample Teams are exemplary teams that have proven themselves to be good and are basic enough for beginners to use, allowing them to pick up the fundamentals of...

#

that’s probs the best advice

red agate
#

its uh

#

nearly each pokemon compliments eatchother

#

Iron valiant compliments and helps palafin with it's physical

#

with coaching

#

chi-yu compliments gholdengo's SpATK with its ability

#

Glimmora is for toxic spikes

#

and uh

#

scarfed regieleki is for electroball... unless they changed that- I'm used to gen 7

#

well uh

#

it's still based on speed but abuabit different

#

abit*

#

gonna have to change that now

tribal plinth
peak crypt
#

Wo-Chien is worse than Maushold

tribal plinth
peak crypt
#

Probably Wellspring Ogerpon, like I mentioned before

tribal plinth
#

ok

#

anything specific on it or just the default build

peak crypt
#

Standard is standard for a reason

#

You can drop Grass move for Encore if you really want to double down on support, but with Rillaboom on the team it’s hard to pass up

tribal plinth
#

ok

#

ty

tribal plinth
peak crypt
#

did you ignore all of the advice I gave besides "consider Wellspring"

#

that is also not standard Wellspring

#

Wellspring's strength in this format (and on this team) is its ability to provide Follow Me and an offensive presence at the same time

#

dropping Follow Me is generally not great unless you have a really solid plan for it

#

and Knock Off is definitely not better than a Grass move

#

Pecharunt is also very mid

#

and the Whimsicott would still be better value as a Tornadus instead; there are generally very few situations where a Whimsicott is the better Tailwind user

#

Leech Seed is also not worth using on it in this format

tribal plinth
#

and i cant use bleakwind storm tornadus

#

bc the rng gods hate me

peak crypt
#

Tornadus is still bulker than Whimsicott with a better defensive typing

#

and your opponent still has to respect Bleakwind, even if you never click it

#

Whimsicott can largely be ignored

tribal plinth
#

i keep getting 1 shot by chie u and thunderclaps

peak crypt
#

Whimsicott will also get one shot by Chi-Yu, that's not exclusive to Tornadus

tribal plinth
peak crypt
#

you can opt for a defensive Tornadus rather than offensive; same moves really but you just max out HP and Special Defense rather than Special Attack and Speed

tribal plinth
#

ty for advice

peak crypt
#

but with the specially defensive Tornadus instead

#

it has both slot improvements and set improvements

tribal plinth
peak crypt
#

yeah, you can put standard Wellspring in its place

#

here, give me a sec

tribal plinth
#

😭

peak crypt
#

you don't need Encore

#

if you really want Encore, you can drop Horn Leech on Ogerpon for Encore

limpid pollen
autumn cove
peak crypt
#

you should either fit in an Earthquake immunity or drop Earthquake entirely

#

Gastrodon seems like a slam dunk

#

Tyranitar has no STAB moves for some reason?

#

I think you'd be better off using Mega Diancie and dropping TTar Exca entirely, honestly

#

and then make the Blood Moon either Life Orb or Assault Vest rather than Throat Spray

#

Spray is pretty overrated and you don't really have consistent speed control, so you'll find yourself in a lot of situations where you can activate Throat Spray but can't make use of the boost before fainting

polar lotus
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

polar lotus
#

Though I was thinking of replacing that paper thin Sneasler for the ever flinching Jirachi and it has good stats and typing too

peak crypt
#

it'll be much easier to build out the rest of the team if you're not trying to juggle five different temporary effects

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

like to be perfectly honest: pledges aren't good. There's nothing you can do to make a pledge team that hangs with the best of them, because the effects just aren't worth the tax it puts on your team to include them. If you're going to build around something fun then you need to focus on that one thing

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

and to be additionally honest

#

you are not Wolfe Glick

#

something that works for one of the few people good enough at Pokemon to make money off of it will not necessarily work for the average joes like you and me

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

I had to give this same lecture to at least a hundred people in 2015, and Pachirisu was still DOU by usage until the end of 2016 despite being completely awful in the format

polar lotus
polar lotus
# polar lotus https://pokepast.es/b29288c451bb7967

I just wanted to make a Sand Hazard team
With Glimmora, Hisuian Samurott with Goggles or smth and Kleavor ofc.
And needed a Pivoter like Incineroar/Rillaboom/Hitmontop
So ended up choosing Incineroar cuz I want to chip damage them annoy the Heck outta the opponents XD

peak crypt
#

the thing I'm noticing with both of these teams is like

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

you are committing to the bit too hard

#

you don't need three "automatic" hazard setters; doing so requires you use multiple mediocre Pokemon that don't necessarily have any synergy with each other

#

and you don't need to double down on passive damage if it means you have triple Rock types

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

I think you drop the Kleavor and pick one between TTar and Samurott

polar lotus
#

Need to replace a Spiker and Rocker now ;-;

peak crypt
#

there will be some tension between Glimmora and Amoonguss - they might "compete" for status - but both of those Pokemon are really, really good, so it's not a total loss

#

you could even swap to Sinistcha over Amoonguss

#

TTar and Glimmora are both perfectly capable of using Stealth Rock themselves

#

and Spikes...

#

you don't need Spikes in DOU

#

there is one Spikes user in the format: Ting Lu; it really only uses Spikes because sometimes it has nothing better to do

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

hazards in DOU are nothing like hazards in singles

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

Sinistcha also has Rage Powder, which is one of the biggest advantages of both it and Amoonguss

polar lotus
#

Thanks I always wanted to try that Ghostly Tea XD

#

Soo.. it's Glimmora, Sinistcha, Incineroar and maybe T-Tar now...
Need to replace the 2 mons

#

Some Water type that's part Ground/Rock/Steel type might work?! Like Empoleon or smth??
(I like Empoleon but never saw anyone using it in Gen 9 +_+)

peak crypt
#

this gen is kind of awkward because all of the Water types stink

#

there's Wellspring Ogerpon hanging out as one of the best Pokemon in the format

#

and that's kind of it

polar lotus
#

I'm thinking of making a sacrificial Glimmora?! With
Spikes,
Rock,
Mortal Spin,
Maybe Momento

peak crypt
#

if you want an easy two Pokemon to add and call the team finished, you could go with like Wellspring and Landorus-I

polar lotus
#

Or maybe an all out attacker with
Power Gem
Mortal Spin
Protect
Rock/spike

peak crypt
#

Glimmora tends to run some mix of Mortal Spin, Stealth Rock, attacks, and Spiky SHield

#

still doesn't bother with Spikes

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

I've seen more people dropping Spiky Shield to run Mortal Spin / Stealth Rock / Sludge Bomb / Earth Power as of late

#

Meteor Beam is cool but this isn't a great environment for it

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

Venoshock's not worth running

#

it means you don't really have a move to hit Amoonguss or anything with a Covert Cloak

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

you can run something like Tera Grass on TTar or just play to ignore Amoonguss with Wellspring and Sinistcha

polar lotus
#

So I was finalising with
Meteor Beam Power Herb set
With Spiky Shield
Mortal Spin and Venoshock/Sludge Bomb

Usual Incineroar set

Landurous (never used it)

Sinistcha

T-Tar

Ogerpon wellspring

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

AV Tyranitar still has a lot of stats

polar lotus
#

I think sand is pretty much useless here... Maybe I should replace it..
;-;

#

Iron Treads/that big Tusks

#

Or maybe Grimmsnarl (⁠ ⁠╹⁠▽⁠╹⁠ ⁠)

peak crypt
#

and Landorus can also run Substitute on its set

#

something like this

#

(...with Tera Grass on the TTar. sorry, been fighting my internet connection all night and forgot that one lol)

polar lotus
#

OH WAITTTTT I JUST SAW THAT GLIMMORA HAS CORROSION!!!!!!!!
NOW Venoshock would be useful 101% XD

peak crypt
#

yeah but then you lose Toxic Debris

#

that's the entire reason you use Glimm

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

Glimmora does not need to be a suicide lead every game

#

you can hold it in the back and clear out the Amoonguss first

#

or you can get your Toxic Spikes up and force them to bring in Amoonguss to get rid of them, then take advantage of the Amoonguss with Substitute or a big Ivy Cudgel

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

Amoonguss can't redirect Ivy Cudgel from Ogerpon because Ogerpon is a Grass type

#

Grass types are immune to powder moves like Spore and Rage Powder

#

so if you have Ogerpon in play against your opponent's Amoonguss, you're free to attack the other slot with your Ogerpon

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

Gliscor sucks

#

don't use it

polar lotus
#

Btw I can see now that the team turned out much better than I thought... Thank you man for brainstorming such good ideas with a total newbie like me 😅

polar lotus
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

polar lotus
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Just wondering if I should've changed Sinistcha item?!

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Now I'm willing to make a Snowy Illusion team too XD !!

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This is the General idea of an my icy team...
Ofcourse I would need Aurora Veil, and than I need Chilly Reception to set back Ice...

Now the problem is I can't think of any mons to benefit from the +50% Physical Defense Boost

And If there's slowking maybe I should have a Trickroom team?!

And need an emergency Fast mon maybe something like Chien-Pao??

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I thought of using Rillaboom instead of Incineroar because of Snow and Aurora Veil I'll already be hard to kill and with passive Healing it would be excruciating for opponents...

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And the Main theme of the Team is Zoroark because of the Heavy snow people could see Illusions hehehehe...

polar lotus
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

polar lotus
tight spire