Smogon Doubles Rates

[brittle spade]

Iron Hands would work much better than okidogi on that kind of team I think

https://pokepast.es/4f14ba294c918cc9

Try this

You should be able to set marsh more reliably and have other options to win

Primarina lives every grass move in the game

Pelipper lives power gem

[shell arrow]

Iron Hands can be considered. However, I thought that Okidogi is nice since it resists grass attacks and is also immune to intimidate with guard dog

[shell arrow]

Also why tera ground on Primarina?

[brittle spade]

Yeah but your team doesn't really care about Intimidate, you already have two grass resists and can Tera for a third

[brittle spade]

Idk I was just trying to make sure rindo berry would work before and after tera

Ground also resists electric and poison which is nice for primarina

[shell arrow]

Fair. I'll try the changes for now. Tysm btw.

[glad sentinel]

https://pokepast.es/948f7b0bf7163307
I honestly didn't know what moves to give some mons, had a ton of trouble trying to find ev spreads

[peak crypt]

You probably had trouble finding EV spreads for some of these Pokémon because they are not very good Pokemon

Treads and Thund-T have had some time in the limelight in singles but they haven’t really proven themselves good in DOU

and Barraskewda is bad everywhere (sorry Hugo)

[glad sentinel]

So what do I replace them with

[glad sentinel]

Would Zapdos be better?

[torpid moat]

the trick is that rain teams do not need to have all of the mons directly care about rain

doing that tends to just make your team overreliant or unbalanced, leaving lots of bad matchups

you can start with peli/arch/waterpon as the main core

from there, you want things with good lando matchups, things that beat rilla, maybe speed control or priority, things that beat snow, more tr checks, etc

ways to beat opposing arch

landorus-i, chien-pao, rillaboom, tornadus, dragonite, iron hands are some mons that might help with this

you also have trick room as an option if you don't want tornadus

[glad sentinel]

Well what would be a good tornadus moveset

I'm assuming bleakwind storm would be good since it hits both mons in doubles and always hits if rain is active

[torpid moat]

torn normally runs tailwind/bleakwind, then any 2 of taunt, protect, rain dance, tera blast (usually ground)

[glad sentinel]

https://pokepast.es/4a2b76750d1497fb

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[glad sentinel]

What about this

[torpid moat]

pao I would run protect over sd

dragonite make normal tera with choice band

extreme speed/ice spinner/stomping tantrum/outrage prob

torn wants sash or covert cloak

sr chip is irrelevant to it

this is potentially the kind of team that may want to cut pelipper for lando i and just run a tankier torn with rain dance

or you cut rain dance on this torn for protect

as it is you're not terribly reliant on rain

[glad sentinel]

How good would it be with those changes?

[torpid moat]

it'd be a pretty acceptable rain offense with a paonite package

you'd still have trouble against some things like snow and iron hands, but it's not nearly as bad of a matchup as your original team

[glad sentinel]

What moves do I give lando though?

[torpid moat]

oh, you want that build

life orb sheer force, steel tera, sandsear storm/sludge bomb/substitute or earth power/protect

and with this torn set because you want fat if you're gonna rely on it for rain:
Tornadus @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Steel
Bold Nature

• Bleakwind Storm
• Tailwind
• Rain Dance
• Protect

[glad sentinel]

https://pokepast.es/dc4576655436345a

So this?

[torpid moat]

just do 252 spa 252 spe timid lando

your dragonite should be inner focus, that blocks fake out and intimidate

torn should be more defensive, like the set I pasted out

if you're relying on it for rain

you can just import it directly

oh also run follow me ogerpon over knock off

[glad sentinel]

https://pokepast.es/3b2bef18eb516ae9

So this

[torpid moat]

yes

[brittle spade]

What do you want your gouging fire to do

[haughty sequoia]

nvm

[queen plover]

https://pokepast.es/c78a6281e44b667b This is my first team I've made in Doubles OU in over a year, does anyone have any suggestions that they would like to raise?

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[queen plover]

oh hell I didn't realize I was top 250

damn I was good

[torpid moat]

blood moon would be better than regular luna here, regular luna requires too much support like healing and deterring intimidate, and is less flexible outside of room

indeedee should prob just be sitrus, psyseed is less flexible and reveals item

[queen plover]

fair

I didn't realize how high up I was in the tier

I played back when flutter was legal lmao

[torpid moat]

250 isn't that high, it's only a little above decay

but congrats

[queen plover]

oh really

F

lol

[torpid moat]

yeah unfortunately ladder only really starts getting competitive around 1700

[queen plover]

https://pokepast.es/6b7d9edf85d91805 Found my old team lol

[torpid moat]

you prob want sunny day torn?

not sure why it's rd here

[queen plover]

eh yeah prob

I wanted it in case I needed an answer to things like torkoal under tr

and uh

just torkoal under tr

and also so I can set bleakwind accuracy to 100%

[torpid moat]

try making your crown dragon tera, with calm mind over tera blast

[queen plover]

im very much a VGC player so I'm kinda basing off of that

[torpid moat]

wait huh

this is slow crown?

[queen plover]

yeah

[torpid moat]

that seems kinda not worth it compared to a ghold comp

[queen plover]

its fast enough to use in Tailwind but slow enough to work in tr

[torpid moat]

that just isn't running indeedee

[queen plover]

ah does ghold just kind of outshine crown here?

well in DOU

[torpid moat]

not technically because you have indeedee here

but crown's best strength is its speed

ghold has way better bulk and typing

[queen plover]

really?

crown has 90 100 108 defenses, thats pretty good imo

[torpid moat]

ghold incin waterpon is a lot more robust of a comp if you're not going for speed

[queen plover]

I'm not going for speed in the sense that I'm not relying on crown's speed stat

I'm relying on tw and tr support

[torpid moat]

it's mainly ghold's typing and not relying on terrain that helps it

like on this team crown would definitely be better than ghold here

[queen plover]

yeah

idk maybe I'll try and optimize the EV spreads but I do see what you're getting at

but from what I saw on pikalytics, isn't this a very normal crown?

33% of crown have 244 0 0 252 0 12 EV spread

oh yeah btw the teras are wrong

I just forgot to do them

whoopsies

[torpid moat]

that sounds like it's just 1 guy or at least 1 team

[queen plover]

yeah thats fair

looking at the rest of the EV spreads they are pretty fast

[torpid moat]

crown spreads are pretty nonstandard too because everyone likes running a different mix of bulk and spa

but they almost always go for either max spe or the modest 168 for spa booster

anyways, the tr aspect feels a little bit unfocused, but I guess slow crown specifically works here

you should consider meteor beam necrozma as well if you want a middling speed mon that can work in tr and tw

but yeah definitely either way it should be blood moon here

[peak crypt]

the speed booster Crown set is 84 HP / 172 SpA / 252 Spe Timid

[queen plover]

What about a specs set with volt switch, tachyon, expanding force, and some other move?

[solid musk]

Oh

On Russian

Second

[torpid moat]

a lot of crown's strength comes from it being able to switch moves and protect, but maybe? I think meteor beam necrozma would still fit a semiroom team better though

[torpid moat]

It's generally more efficient to invest to 252 hp before touching defenses. There are exceptions like iron hands and farigiraf with high base hp, but rilla and bonnet are not one of them

For the rest of your team, the build is pretty unbalanced, you're focusing too much on taking advantage of sun/terrain instead of using individually strong mons, and you also lack speed control

if you want a fast setup fighting, there's kommo

and if you want a trick room to work well with blood moon/torkoal, try farigiraf

[queen plover]

lets goooo

#36

[queen plover]

This just seems like a regulation H team, it just really lacks the power level imo

it also lacks a lot of flexibility imo, because even though you have 3 fake out users this team kinda falls apart to Farig + decent support

if I had to make any suggestions, I'd say to replace either incin or sneasler with Farigiraf or Diancie in order to make better use of your strong TR attackers

because this just looks like a tr team without the tr

oh yeah, also optimize those EVs

[edgy cipher]

https://pokepast.es/134b701a42018f06

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[edgy cipher]

Does this make any sense (i have never in my life played doubles)

[cyan patio]

incin doesn't need boots try a berry

[edgy cipher]

Fair

Which berry exacly

[edgy cipher]

But the team is generally alright?

[peak crypt]

nah Boots are great on Incin

hazards are real in DOU and Incin likes switching in and out a lot

I can’t really look at this team in depth until tomorrow so maybe Paint or someone can hop in

[edgy cipher]

Aight imma keep boots then

[cyan patio]

Sry I miss informed u

[edgy cipher]

No worries

You probanly know more than me anyway lol

[torpid moat]

definitely great for a first time, main issues are that you don't have enough trick room setters for what looks like a full trick room team, also hatt sucks, and indeedee itself learns TR

also psy terrain has a lot of negative synergy with your priority mons

prob for least changes, eforce tr ep protect necrozma/sitrus indeedee-f/blood moon/psychic seed sd drain punch fire punch protect hands/follow me waterpon

last can be any of iron crown/incin/landorus/diancie

[edgy cipher]

Uh okay

Thanks for help

[edgy cipher]

Sorry for a dumb question but whats ep on necrozma

Oh earth power

Dis gud?

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[edgy cipher]

Oh wait forgor to give ih prot

https://pokepast.es/9a8722d28b8c15c8

[edgy cipher]

Also why fire punch and not thunder punch

I thought fighting and elextric synergize well

[edgy cipher]

Also aint heat wave better instead of ep in nekrozma

And why does hatt suck

[edgy cipher]

Eh now that i think of it indeedee probably should be the one setting up tr

[torpid moat]

fire punch hits gholdengo in particular, while also dealing neutral damage to lando-i

eforce teams traditionally have a lot of trouble with ghold, and a flying tera fire punch hands can reasonably answer lando still

[edgy cipher]

i guess thats fair

But why does hatt suck isnt it good for tr eforce team

Also if ogerpon has 110 base speed and has to have max ivs anyway should i make it negative or neutral speed nature

[torpid moat]

ah sorry I got busy with something else halfway

yeah so hatt sucks because it's so frail

it has like 60 base hp without insane defenses like diancie, it just dies to attacks and can't be relied on to set tr

necrozma has a similar power level, and with follow me won't be disrupted anyways

and necro runs earth power to hit incineroar, which heat wave doesn't

[edgy cipher]

Okay okay

Thanks for help

[torpid moat]

waterpon wants to be max speed actually

or rather the standard set that outspeeds lando i but still runs bulk

[torpid moat]

Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 200 HP / 124 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Ivy Cudgel
• Horn Leech
• Follow Me
• Spiky Shield

you're allowed to have fast mons on a tr team

there are definitely other options for last 2 slots than even what I mentioned, depends how you'd wanna take the team

if you don't have trouble with gholdengo often you can replace fire punch hands too if you want

ice punch is better all-around coverage besides that case

[edgy cipher]

i like this

[edgy cipher]

But do you think i should give tr to indeedee instead of nekrozma

[torpid moat]

you should give it to both

hard trick room teams need 2-3 mons that know trick room

diancie and porygon2, some of the other options for 6th slot, also set tr

standard indeedee set for this would be psychic/trick room/follow me/protect

[edgy cipher]

Okay imma change helping hand to tr

[prime pulsar]

Trying to cook up a team with a few of my faves, hows this?
https://pokepast.es/d7b95b055ab72630

[edgy cipher]

Oh boy

[prime pulsar]

thats not a good sign XD

[edgy cipher]

I mean

I am not a team reviewer or anything

And about doubles especially i know shit

But i wont lie

If i saw this in team preview id take it as free elo xd

But maybe i am just stupid and this is good idk

To me it just looks like a singles team

With protect slapped on 2 mons

There is no redirection or support whatsoever

Or any real synergy

(But again that might be just me wait for a team reviewer to check this)

[scenic hamlet]

half this team is not viable and I’d suggest looking at the viability rankings and using their dex sets for the time being

[edgy cipher]

Uh yeah that too

[prime pulsar]

I'll definetely give this a redo then, maybe I can still keep the lilligant tho

[scenic hamlet]

check the samples thread, I think there’s a sun team with Lilligant

[prime pulsar]

neat

[peak crypt]

@prime pulsar stories said what I'd say, but I do want to add a couple things

first thing: Doubles OU is not just "OU Doubles," it has its own banlist that is much smaller than singles OU's

(you might know this already but a lot of people don't, so I figured I'd mention it)

and the second thing: you should take a look at the sample teams and just see how sets are constructed

pay attention to the things specific Pokemon are doing that other Pokemon might not be able to do

you have a couple Protects so you're not totally off kilter, but you will notice a higher rate of utility moves and a lower rate of setup

[long dagger]

https://pokepast.es/df2cf0373adc1be8

Can someone rate my team im doing with my friends

20 bucks are on the line

[peak crypt]

You’re not winning 20 bucks with this

There is one good Pokémon on your team in Ursaluna and the rest are all varying degrees of mediocre

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/ if you are looking to win I would highly suggest using Pokemon from this thread

if you’re specifically looking at Ursaluna, the “standard” Ursaluna setup is psyspam with Indeedee / Torkoal / Hisuian Lilligant / Ursaluna / Expanding Force user / filler

(not Hatterene, Hatt stinks)

@long dagger

[edgy cipher]

B-but pachirisu won championships 🤓☝️

Or something like that

[shell arrow]

just curious, but who is the most viable expanding force user? i thought Hatt was good since it can reliably set tr + use expanding force

From the top of my head, i thought iron crown, hoopa-u or deo-N were the best e force users but none of them are DOU

[peak crypt]

Armarouge is generally the best one

It has reasonable bulk, a good typing, and benefits from Torkoal’s sun

Iron Crown is better if you’re playing a less TR-focused psyspam build

[prime pulsar]

Tried to better my type coverage and give myself some better support options. This will likely still need some work but I'm hoping its a significant improvement compared to the last team I posted
https://pokepast.es/755cc54d73328dda

wait shit I just realised I gave the incineroar both parting shot and u-turn. ignore that u-turn should be knock-off

[peak crypt]

I think trying to build a team that works in both DOU and VGC Reg H is a fool’s errand

The threats you need to account for in DOU are so much more powerful than those in Reg H

[prime pulsar]

I see, I'll probably have to start building a seperate ou team then

[wide dragon]

https://pokepast.es/9f3deaa105e999dd

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

team is mostly ok, taunt isn't so good on ogerpon-h, youd rather just attack. I put wood hammer but uturn is ok too, i changed the rilla to make it easier to bring in palafin. I fixed the EVs on farigiraf, basically if HP is above twice the value of def or spdef it's better to invest in def n spdef. I put close combat on palafin because mono water attacker is actually very bad in the current meta because of ogerpon-wellspring and volcanion
https://pokepast.es/03b932a0f2b33387

[wide dragon]

thanks

[wild cove]

https://pokepast.es/8ef97abbd9e120f9
i reached top 100 in DUU with this team (idk how) and want suggestions for improvement in the team, my main strat is to go for terrak + maus and use beat up

[brittle spade]

if you're just gonna be beating the dead horse of gimmicks you might as well go all the way https://pokepast.es/132ac3d60bb7739d

[wild cove]

i like the replacement of pachi cuz it wasnt helping that much and those changes with arma tho i dont exactly have that much speed control now if i lead maus terrak and low sweep seems kinda situational + rock slide misses quite a lot so i run wide lens

[brittle spade]

low sweep is to beat ogerpon-cornerstone leads

redirection is your main issue

wide lens terrakion sucks though

run life orb or assault vest or clear amulet

covert cloak avoids fake out issues

if you want more speed control then replace regieleki with a tailwind user

[wild cove]

oh ye figures those r a big issue for a terrak lead

[brittle spade]

it does what twave can't and breaks sturdy

[wild cove]

if not wide lens i would say assault vest or covert cloak should work

tho i would argue if i am building my maus to be bulky and take hits rocky helmet should work better

imma run a few matches with this team rq

[brittle spade]

maushold isn't bulky enough for rocky helmet to get any mileage

it has like half the bulk of amoonguss

[wild cove]

ye i can see that now

played 5 won 5

arma provides huge value now compared to my older strat

terrak dishes out more dmg , maus is a bit more offensive now tho the berry doesnt help way too much, regi is same, bonnet i would say sucker punch might work better and havent got the chance to use close combat

[brittle spade]

close combat is for opposing bonnet, ogerpon, even heatran
chople is for something like sneasler or kommoo. But the duu ladder isn't very good so you don't see the good duu mons as often as you should

[wild cove]

ye the only times i see some actual good mons is when i am fighting high ranking players like how i somehow got matched with a top 5 player twice yesterday 🤡

[brittle spade]

you have to join smogon tournaments to see real teams

or check out the duu smogon page

[wild cove]

the sample teams one ?

[brittle spade]

yeah

[wild cove]

iirc the last time i saw a post on it was july

still i will check it out and see if there r any tournaments around for duu thanks a lot for ur time

[brittle spade]

there's one about to finish

next one should be in a month or two

you're welcome, gl

[wild cove]

also if i am not wrong do u have a sample team posted on the page cuz i vaguely remember seeing ur name

[brittle spade]

i do yeah, i was using that during the last tour i played

[vital narwhal]

i wanna make a good balanced doubles team but i dont know where i should start can someone help me

preferbly for gen 8 doubles ou

[torpid moat]

you can look at the sample teams/viability rankings here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-doubles-ou.3718683/

click on a mon in the VR to see an example set and explanation for its role

[edgy cipher]

.

Hey i can write here

Just not on sv ou

[peak crypt]

to put it bluntly, you probably did something to piss off the OU raters

like repeatedly posting the same team while ignoring rater advice

(you found the cooler format’s rating channel though)

[edgy cipher]

I have never in my life typed anything in sv ou rates

[edgy cipher]

I dont disagree

[peak crypt]

oh hmm

[remote edge]

@edgy cipher

can you send a ss of what the channel says when you try to type in it

[edgy cipher]

hi

[remote edge]

(screenshot)

[edgy cipher]

Aight

[remote edge]

i think I remember what it was from yesterday, but I want to make suree

[remote edge]

hold on

is it only SV OU rates?

[edgy cipher]

Um

I can type here

And on RU rates

So i think yea

[remote edge]

i've never seen this before

i'll look into this and get back to you if I find anything - if you post in one you should be able to in all of them

[edgy cipher]

Thx

And ihave no idea why i cant type here

Im pretty sure i have never in my life sent a message therr

[remote edge]

do you have this on or n

nvm ignore

[edgy cipher]

I do

Still cant type there

Imma try rejoining wait

Didnt help

[edgy cipher]

Okay

@remote edge

This is hilarious lol

So sv ou is basically locked for any new member rn

[remote edge]

yeah we're looking into it

[edgy cipher]

kk

[worldly summit]

hello! I'm hella new to Pokémon comp and really like hard trick room teams, I found this team online and would love some help!
Indeedee-F @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

• Trick Room
• Helping Hand
• Follow Me
• Dazzling Gleam

Hatterene @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

• Trick Room
• Expanding Force
• Dazzling Gleam
• Protect

Hydrapple @ Assault Vest
Ability: Supersweet Syrup
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 212 SpA / 44 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Giga Drain
• Fickle Beam
• Earth Power
• Hydro Pump

Iron Hands @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 52 HP / 204 Atk / 252 SpD
Brave Nature

• Fake Out
• Wild Charge
• Drain Punch
• Volt Switch

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon @ Throat Spray
Ability: Mind's Eye
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 52 SpA / 204 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Hyper Voice
• Blood Moon
• Earth Power
• Protect

Glastrier @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Chilling Neigh
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD
Brave Nature

• Icicle Crash
• Stomping Tantrum
• Swords Dance
• Protect

[torpid moat]

Hey, welcome to dou! So hard trick room is a hyper offense archetype that is fully dependent on trick room being up. The three important roles are TR setters, dedicated attackers, and disruption (things like fake out or follow me to facilitate a tr set). Normally, a hard tr team needs 2-3 setters and 1-2 disruption, but there can always be role overlap. Your team has too little of this utility, because hatt is too frail to be a reliable setter, and indeedee is too overloaded to properly set tr. You also have too many attackers, of which only hands has utility, and hydrapple isn't even offensively threatening. So against a competent player/team, this team likely wouldn't be able to set tr a second time and the team will be overrun. You should definitely cut Hydrapple, and Also, glastrier learns high horsepower which is better than stomping.

here's one way I'd build your team, though there are definitely other ways you could take it: https://pokepast.es/3224c0abd73bc651

and another thing, be sure you set your speed ivs to 0 with speed lowering natures like quiet so you have the lowest speed possible

there are reasons to not do so like fake out speed tiers and choosing the order your mons attack, but those decisions should be made intentionally, your default choice should be minimum speed

[worldly summit]

thanks so much for the help ❤️

[worldly summit]

any suggestions on how to play this team?

[torpid moat]

sure, so the new mon here is sinistcha, who heals your mons in on switchin, while also setting tr and playing a redirector role with rage powder

this gives you a lot more flexibility in the midgame when it comes time to set your second tr

it's also very useful for topping up blood moon/glast/necro's health when they get low

something you have to be careful of here is what terrain is up, because opposing rillaboom can cancel it

the effect of psyterrain is to boost psychic damage of grounded mons, as well as block priority moves targeting grounded mons

this includes fake out, both yours and your opponent's

your necrozma will only be truly threatening under tr, so you want to manage psy terrain against rilla teams, and use other mons if rilla is still alive and not on the field to reset

this also means your hands fake out only really works outside of psy terrain

the general gameplan is make a good lead that leads to a tr set, bring in your attackers to try to deal as much damage as possible, then position for a second tr set

if the second tr set is successful and you've been putting up sufficient offense, you've most likely won the game

[worldly summit]

okay ones again for the help man ❤️ ill try remember all this been using it in a few games now i won some so thanks so much the sinistcha is really use full especially with the necro

[torpid moat]

cool, yw

[worldly summit]

i love the team thanks man just wish iron hands looked a bit cooler like the rest of the team haha

[edgy cipher]

hi so https://pokepast.es/13e1388cad6a3dde

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[edgy cipher]

I wanted to change waterpon here to make this a hard tr team

Any suggestions

[wide dragon]

the mushroom

[torpid moat]

you're perfectly allowed to run waterpon on tr, even fast waterpon

I'd say your real issue is you need another tr setter, most likely p2 over incin

with clear amulet hands instead of psychic seed, fake out/drain punch/fire punch/sd

grass tera

[edgy cipher]

i was thinking bout that too

[edgy cipher]

ik, i was just wondering if i could make it tr only team

[torpid moat]

it already is, not everything on even a hard tr team has to be slow

[edgy cipher]

Fair

Would the mush still work though

Just curious

[wide dragon]

it could be a good replacement for wellspring yea, another setter is a good idea too tho

[edgy cipher]

Imma see what i can do

[torpid moat]

just do the changes I listed earlier

most other configurations of that team would be too weak to either ghold, lando-i, or incin

[edgy cipher]

Aight

[prisma void]

https://pokepast.es/d4700e57017c5d29

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[prisma void]

Try to make a archualdon based team

[brittle spade]

it's fine ?

except scarf protect of course

you might want tera ground landorus also

try fixing your pelipper EVs so itll live tera normal sword of ruin extreme speed from dragonite and power gem from glimmora

focus sash tera ghost is probably better on your tornadus

[edgy cipher]

https://pokepast.es/e81eba0a8446d6da Thoughts?

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[edgy cipher]

Also just a disclaimer that i am totally new to doubles and know shit bout teambuilding in it 😭

I just tried going for tr

[edgy cipher]

Oh yeah i probably should update hands to this

Mb i forgor

[brittle spade]

it's fine if you just want to climb casually, iron hands wants tera grass though

life orb is a bit sad on necrozma since its bulk is its biggest draw, you could try covert cloak or weakness policy

[edgy cipher]

Weakness policy sounds actually good on nekrozma

[edgy cipher]

Ye prob

For now i just want to kinda get in doubles

I have like 1300 elo just messin around lol

[brittle spade]

id recommend just opening the bazaar and trying all sorts of teams then

[edgy cipher]

I always liked the idea of a tr team thougj

So i wanted.to focus on that first

[echo island]

https://pokepast.es/897bbf178cbc681e
A friend sent this to me to try and I'd prefer to keep the pokemon the same. Any change in stats or moves?

[peak crypt]

this team is a bit messy

and I really don't think it's a Swords Dance Hands team

Covert Cloak is also pretty unnecessary with Indeedee on the team

I think the team would benefit a lot from just using AV Hands and keeping Primarina as the only setup Pokemon

Life Orb and Protect on the Hoopa, get the special moves off the Lando-T, Hyper Voice on Prim over Water Pledge

[brittle spade]

is it this guy ? https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-team-bazaar.3710875/post-10236259

this is the better version : https://pokepast.es/81dc1a415646e3b1

but he's really not gonna like it if you change his sets, is this really what you want ?

would you risk a friendship just to win games ?

[edgy cipher]

"Friendship"?

In showdown players?

[edgy cipher]

Btw primarina is good in a tr team right

[torpid moat]

primarina itself is decidedly mediocre

[edgy cipher]

Fair

Actually now that i think about it is it fine if my team has only 1 redirect

[echo island]

Yes that's him

[torpid moat]

if the redirector is indeedee, only if you have 3 tr setters

but it seriously sounds like you may want to go for semiroom instead if you're unwilling to commit that much support or want to use more generic attackers

[polar lotus]

https://pokepast.es/9dd192b3a017c808

Quick team I made

[lament void]

Hello all, I am very new to competitive Pokémon but I am really liking it. This is the first team I made. Would appreciate feedback/advice. https://pokepast.es/c000f146be9e97ae

[brittle spade]

physical regidrago is bad, run dragon energy draco meteor

you don't need calm mind on armarouge, run protect

you say you want a sand component but garchomp hippowdon is so much worse than tyranitar excadrill, run those

dragonite doesn't really do much for you

something like ogerpon-wellspring would be more useful

[lament void]

Thank you for the advice

[edgy cipher]

Yes it is and yes i do have 3 tr setters

[peak crypt]

This team looks like it just sits around until it loses

Generally in DOU you need to have a board state that actively represents some sort of threat, because otherwise your opponent can just double target down the thing that’s the most annoying and eventually overwhelm you

Or they can present a setup attacker with protection and still have threats rolled up for after the setup attacker is answered

It’s really hard to play anything that looks like singles stall without a really deep understanding of the format and the gameplay dynamics, because you can just get rolled over

[brittle spade]

(and the good stall players often still get rolled)

[polar lotus]

What do you think I should replace

Besides Grimm I already brought in a peliper

[torpid moat]

stall is not a viable archetype, the team would need a complete rebuild

and pelipper is not the right direction to go for here

if you want a "grindy" team, try recreating something like the one in this replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2221562945-d5n20jklypwz6bw9h3dm0562dzkdopipw

it combines ting-lu grind, mons that demand specific answers like arch, forced switches or lockdown from scream tail, with lategame cleaners in entei and scarf basc-f

[torpid moat]

there's too much setup here, and garchomp and hippo are not worth using

this would probably best be made as a semiroom team with ttar + exca

indeedee/armor (no calm mind)/excadrill/choice band ttar/special dragon fang regidrago (dragon energy + draco meteor)/tailwind tornadus

regidrago and ttar would work mainly under tr but can likely also outspeed opponents under tailwind

tailroom is very flexible in how you use your speed control, you choose based on your opponent's team and the current game state

[lament void]

i like the tailwind idea, i did try exca ttar but saw less sucess maybe because im still low ladder?

[brittle spade]

run assault vest tyranitar with life orb excadrill

[torpid moat]

yeah av ttar is fine too

[twilit wedge]

new to comp in general so its not the best team but im open to feedback and want to learn 👍 https://pokepast.es/b4dc423910a83e25

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[twilit wedge]

switched out landorus for garganacl (wide guard recover build)

[twilit wedge]

gen6 dou team im also looking for feedback on https://pokepast.es/719e469ee18064fa

[torpid moat]

this team is very weak to fires like incin/chi yu/firepon/torkoal, as well as various others like gholdengo and kommo that your team can't touch

volcarona is a very difficult mon to build with, it requires lots of team support and complementary offense partners to work at all

[twilit wedge]

yea, im looking on making some changes right now. i think i liked having garganacl instead of landorus for wide guard, but im not really sure who to switch volcarona with

[torpid moat]

wide guard isn't particularly necessary, especially if you don't have a volcarona

main issues are you probably shouldn't have both rilla and amoong on the same team, and lack of of offensive options like lando-i

it really depends what kind of team you're going for

[twilit wedge]

that makes sense. i really like using amoonguss, and had rillaboom mainly for the fakeout/terrain setup

[torpid moat]

maybe try amoong incineroar then?

pair with a bulky wincon like nasty plot ghold or calm mind raging bolt

[twilit wedge]

incineroar over volcarona?

[torpid moat]

I mean starting from scratch

[twilit wedge]

ohh

silly me

[torpid moat]

which do you prefer as your bulky focus?

you can potentially run 2 as well

like np ghold + body press kommo

[twilit wedge]

bulk as in physical attack and not tanking? (sorry im a bit sleepy and still very new to this)

[torpid moat]

bulk means tanking a lot of hits, physical and special

amoong and incin are support mons that basically slow down your opponent's offense

while very useful tools, they're meant to support a plan, not be the plan itself

the easiest version of that plan is to support a few tanky setup mons

[twilit wedge]

i could try garganacl or kommo

[torpid moat]

I'll pick kommo for you then just because it's more flexible

amoong/incin/kommo

[twilit wedge]

sweet

is tailwind worth getting in there?

[torpid moat]

adding torn is reasonable

if you go that route then the last 2 should be attackers

like lando-i definitely

[twilit wedge]

hows whismsicott sound 😳 (i love whimsicott and am not a huge fan of tornadus)

[torpid moat]

it's worse than torn in almost every way

only usable on very specific teams that care about fake tears or encore

[twilit wedge]

damn 😔

[torpid moat]

torn is an attacker in its own right with bleakwind storm

[twilit wedge]

true

[torpid moat]

your team is lacking attackers

btw, teams generally start with attackers or wincons first

[twilit wedge]

makes sense, ive just been looking around on smogon for mons i enjoy using and seeing if i can put something together

[torpid moat]

support mons can be decided based on what support the team needs, not the other way around

[twilit wedge]

and things that i know work well

[torpid moat]

anyways, incin/amoong/kommo/torn/lando-i is 5

for the last I would pick something like spectrier or chien pao

a fast straightforward attacker to enjoy support from the partners

also for your xy team a mega is pretty much mandatory, probably kang or gengar here

likely over wash because wash sucks

[twilit wedge]

damn 😔

ive been having good games without one but ill try gengar instead of wash

[torpid moat]

I think kang over wash plus cb genesect over aegi would be a reasonable enough semiroom team with prio spam

if gengar there should definitely be a volcanion

[twilit wedge]

would kang aegi work? (ive enjoyed aegislash a lot)

[twilit wedge]

this is what i have put together so far, i just grabbed builds from smogon for them all 😭 https://pokepast.es/7ab0c070fbe9996d

[torpid moat]

looks about right, try water, dragon, ghost, or dark (prankster taunt immunity) amoong

[twilit wedge]

sweet, switched it to dark. thanks for all the help :D

[echo island]

https://pokepast.es/d494859f70644d19

Decided to try TR with Rampardos. I'd prefer to keep him in, but should I make any changes to his moveset (which isn't very good imo). I'd also appreciate suggestions with the other pokemon.

[brittle spade]

run sheer force

mold breaker is useless

and rock slide

also you want bulk on ogerpon

just run the sample set

i think you can replace ogerpon by somethng like fake out iron hands

you're kinda very weak to rillaboom

ursaluna + rampardos is the problem

[echo island]

👍

[polar lotus]

https://pokepast.es/faa265674cf00eda

Doubles 9 ou

[peak crypt]

things were looking pretty good until the Drifblim showed up

this one's a pretty simple fix to get something pretty decent though

https://tenor.com/view/gholdengo-pokemon-gif-15242883686812850684

[prisma void]

https://pokepast.es/dce3521289cb7d4b

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[polar lotus]

https://pokepast.es/7c015947bbe5d853

Also made a new team
https://pokepast.es/1d7e157dad02302d

[prisma void]

I think lyranco uses focus sash without sand rush it dies to everything before it hits right?

[peak crypt]

Lycanroc is not a good Pokémon

Even in its absolute best use case

I realize that building teams is more fun when you get to use fun or niche Pokemon but it gets so much easier to do this when you have more experience using the good stuff and knowing how to construct sets well

[polar lotus]

Would cleaver work better

[peak crypt]

hazards are not required in this format

you don't need them

[polar lotus]

Ah

[peak crypt]

you're also really undervaluing Protect; it's arguably the best move in DOU

the only time you really drop Protect is when you are either using Assault Vest or you have so many support options that you drop it just to jam more stuff in (think stuff like Cresselia, Scream Tail, Whimsicott, Incineroar)

[polar lotus]

Ah

So what should I replace hazard with

[peak crypt]

Protect

[polar lotus]

I mean I feel like if not hazard what is cleaver even there for

Do you have any other sort of tanky or speedy wall breakers

[peak crypt]

you shouldn't think of Pokemon in singles roles

there aren't really wallbreakers in DOU because walls aren't really a thing

[polar lotus]

Ah

Ok

[peak crypt]

there are just Pokemon that do a bunch of damage

[polar lotus]

So whats someone for mons that try to stack a lot of defense and offense stats

[peak crypt]

Pokemon often don't really get sorted into roles as much as in singles because battles are so much more dynamic

so classifications tend to be a bit broader

[polar lotus]

Oh Haze I forgot haze

[peak crypt]

sweepers and glass cannons still exist but they're not sweepers like in singles where you try to click a single Dragon Dance and go off

they're more just "strong attackers capable of closing games"

usually with spread moves

you have some Pokemon that are more specifically tanks, like Raging Bolt, Iron Hands, and Kyurem - just big fat balls of stats that really love their Assault Vests

you have setup, which no matter what kind it is usually requires support

you have your offensive supports like Rillaboom and Ogerpon, and you have more defensive supports like Cresselia and Amoonguss

but there's some decent overlap between roles too; Torkoal is primarily an attacker on TR teams but also provides Sun for things like Lilligant-H, Walking Wake, and Raging Bolt

Rillaboom is mostly used for terrain, Fake Out, and U-turn, but you don't want to be on the receiving end of a Wood Hammer if you can avoid it

and then there are a few Pokemon like Archaludon who show up and go "I am going to click buttons and if you don't respect me you will lose"

[polar lotus]

Maybe I should do a sun team

[peak crypt]

I cleaned up the sets on this team a little bit: https://pokepast.es/15863e033eaad0ad

Cresselia has a more support focused build because it isn't really capable of doing damage unless you're hitting something for 4x weakness, so this spread is all bulk

(I copy pasted one of my old Cress so it has Helping Hand over Icy Wind; you can keep Icy if you want since that helps against things like Landorus)

Lando has Protect and a Tera type that changes some of its weaknesses while also enabling KOs against things like AV Rillaboom

Incin is now mostly bulk (and has Boots - while hazards aren't needed, Incineroar likes to switch in and out a lot, and as a Fire type it really appreciates Boots for the teams that do have SR)

Tyranitar is now Assault Vest

[polar lotus]

Wait hold on

I've never really understood ivs

Whats that about

[peak crypt]

EVs or IVs?

[polar lotus]

IVs

[peak crypt]

IVs go from 0-31; you pretty much always want those to be 31

[polar lotus]

Like why do some have 0 iv on attack

[peak crypt]

but if you have no physical attacks, you generally want your Attack IV to be 0, to reduce damage from confusion and Foul Play

and Trick Room setters and attackers generally want their Speed IV to be 0 so they are as slow as possible

[polar lotus]

Ah

[peak crypt]

beyond those two examples, you just want them to be 31 in basically every scenario

[polar lotus]

I see

[peak crypt]

to continue: Assault Vest is a lot better on Tyranitar than Leftovers because it generally gives you a lot more survivability over one or two turns, rather than the extreme long term that Leftovers provides; games usually don't last long enough for a Pokemon without Protect to get any significant healing from Leftovers

and Assault Vest TTar is FAT

the Ogerpon set is unchanged, and Gho just drops Thunderbolt in favor of Protect

generally coverage moves in DOU aren't super important; if your Pokemon can't hit one of your opponent's Pokemon for neutral or better, it can probably hit the other Pokemon for neutral or better

and having two Pokemon in play significantly increases the number of things you can hit

so it's usually better to just roll up with your strongest moves

Earthquake got dropped on Tyranitar because spread reduction makes it pretty weak and it requires you to have a Ground-immune partner next to it, so there aren't a ton of situations where it's really good

[polar lotus]

Hey so any tips on sunny liligant h

[peak crypt]

standard Lilligant sun is a little goofy

Torkoal / Lilli / Indeedee-F / Ursaluna / insert Expanding Force user here / filler

[wide dragon]

https://pokepast.es/4c7bae49ff638c4f

heres a core i am trying to bulild around, previous iteration was getting messed up by sun teams

the idea is to get in hazards and use perish song or yawn to forces switches or sleep to enable gholdengo

old team
https://pokepast.es/43980f2cee5784fc

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

I have some bad news about Clodsire

[wide dragon]

clodsire allegations?

[polar lotus]

Doesn't clod have like a bunch of weaks

Water, ice, psy

I'm forgetting more

[peak crypt]

Clodsire kind of just isn't good

[wide dragon]

rn he is actually doing quite a good job

[peak crypt]

why use Yawn with a Clodsire when you could click Spore with Amoonguss

and also have redirection to safely set up Nasty Plot

[torpid moat]

or use ting lu

if you want a real fat ground mon

[hollow rover]

https://pokepast.es/f5072356c3473130

i've made this team while i was bored and put random stuff it's supposed to be for lil cup but I can't really figure out how to use it. do yall know how to use it or should i do some changes to it?

[peak crypt]

you have three non-attacking moves on an Assault Vest Pokemon, you have four fully evolved Pokemon on a team that's "supposed to be for Little Cup," and the Pokemon you've selected are... mostly questionable at best

I would highly highly recommend you check out sample teams for whichever format you are attempting to play (is it Little Cup? is it Doubles OU? is it Partners in Crime? is it Doubles LC?) and use those instead until you get a better idea of what makes a Pokemon or a move good in the format of choice

[hollow rover]

oh alr ty

[polar lotus]

I tried to make a sun team
https://pokepast.es/8faf73ccbf616d77

Idk how to build like half the mons on it lol

[peak crypt]

never use Pincurchin

never, ever use Pincurchin

it is so mind blowingly awful that it's hard to put into words

the easiest way to figure out how to build Pokemon you aren't familiar with is to see how other people are using them

every video game community is collaborative and Pokemon is no exception - the best strategies are built upon literal decades of experimentation and optimization

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/doubles/ - here you can find sample sets and writeups for a lot of the best Pokemon in the format (and some that were previously great but aren't so great any more, like Garganacl)

and Deoxys-A. huh I should probably make sure that gets taken down since we banned that

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-sample-teams.3710876/ - this is the sample teams! you're in a spot right now where you're mostly building with good Pokemon but not quite connecting the dots on what to do with them or what makes them great; you probably don't need to use these yourself (though it won't hurt) but looking at the sets and construction might help you understand the Pokemon included for your own efforts

[polar lotus]

Idk why I have pictures there cause I removed I hands🤣

[peak crypt]

Iron Hands is honestly better without Pincurchin

[polar lotus]

Maybe another p paradox

[peak crypt]

Hands is great! but even Hands cannot make up for the sheer void that Pincurchin adds to a team

[polar lotus]

Maybe I add a gouge fire

But that's 4 Fite types

[peak crypt]

Gouging Fire isn't really a Sun mon honestly

it tends to see the most use clicking Howl next to stuff like Wellspring and Ting-Lu

(and getting completely stuffed by a single Incineroar, but that's not the point)

[polar lotus]

So whats gonna go in that 6th slot...

Maybe a rillaboom but I already got a fake out

But it WOULD work on psy terrain

[hollow rover]

https://pokepast.es/9f9c7569977bf3a1
I completly changed the team is it better now it for Little cup and partners in crime

[peak crypt]

this team is illegal in any Little Cup format

you can only use basic unevolved Pokemon in Little Cup, so no Tinkaton

[hollow rover]

ooh shoot

[peak crypt]

remember to read the rules of any format you want to play!

[hollow rover]

but i looked at the list of pokemons to not use and tinkaton isn't there

in Little Cup

but it's not in the pokemon list either i'm confused

[torpid moat]

little cup only allows the fully unevolved versions of mons that can evolve

babies only pretty much

no ditto, no ivysaur, no venusaur

[dire flint]

the pokemon not to use only refers to pokemon that would be legal in little cup if they weren't banned

Like gligar

or duraladon

[prisma void]

^

[brittle spade]

this is commonly referred to as a matchup fish, where if you load a good matchup it's gonna go well, but if you face a team that can easily deal with 4 rock types, it's an autoloss

thus fishing for a good matchup

typically if you want to use tyranitar + excadrill you try to complement them with mons that can deal with fighting types, landorus, gholdengo, rillaboom in a proactive way

that's why one of the best partners currently used on sand is ogerpon-hearthflame

[prisma void]

Gasdraton is ok?

[brittle spade]

no

gastrodon does nothing

nobody competent is going to click water moves and it just gets walled by ogerpon-wellspring

[prisma void]

I use it to storm drain and muddy water chipping and accuracy

[brittle spade]

yeah but there's one water type in the tier

two if you count pelipper

in tours when people brought sand it's ogerpon hearthflame, tornadus ttar+drill primarina and kommoo

there's also been amoonguss + av ursaluna + torn + chien pao

you should try those

[prisma void]

Alr I am going somewhere rn I'll ask some questions later too

[brittle spade]

excadrill also doesn't care for rock slide

run protect

assault vest clear amulet or chople berry work much better on tyranitar

[prisma void]

I used smoothstone because most of the time with that one switch in can create a sandstorm for almost the entire game

[prisma void]

Offensive tailwind or defensive?

Also the kommo do I use the iron defense body press or boom burst clangorous soul

I made this replica of what u said

https://pokepast.es/55aaf1b8b1a3514f

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[prisma void]

Idk if it's correct EVs and moves

Oh wait there a fault

The primirinia is running hyper voice

Not beam

[brittle spade]

for tyranitar you can run high horsepower ice punch or tera blast as the 4th move

and 167 speed to outspeed landorus once you have tailwind up

for primarina you don't need psychic noise

[prisma void]

Ice punch seems good cause lando

[brittle spade]

protect is better

tera steel as well

on ogerpon follow me is a very good option as well

swords dance is ok

[prisma void]

How about I remove crunch or knock off for ice punch and taunt for protect

[brittle spade]

the clangorous soul set isn't very good

body press is much better

[prisma void]

Alright

[brittle spade]

you wouldn't have a move to hit gholdengo

and youd need to get rid of assault vest

[prisma void]

Max Def and speed? Or max Def hp or something else

[brittle spade]

oh i didn't see you had both crunch and knock

yeah remove one

[brittle spade]

max hp bold with 16ev in defense and the rest in speed and spdef

and you can run flash cannon/flamethrower/throat chop/dragon tail as the 4th move

[prisma void]

For kommo right?

[brittle spade]

yeah

[brittle spade]

ttar wants to run protect stealth rock rock slide knock off ice punch low kick high horsepower tera blast

so just pick some of those

[prisma void]

If I run protect I have to get rid of assault vest though

[brittle spade]

yeah youd have to run clear amulet

or chople

if you're bored you can also try manaphy over primarina with tail glow scald dazzling gleam

or max speed tornadus with icy wind

there are lots of possibilities

[prisma void]

Nah I always like primarina lol

Should I get haze instead of psyhic noise just in case

I'll just use a ice move I gues

[brittle spade]

protect is just better

[prisma void]

Yo into some battles and I think trickroom is a being annoying against me

[edgy cipher]

Mist did you just lose to necrozma indeede lead a lil while ago

Either someone has a simmilar team to yours or we fought

And yeah the team struggles with tr

I think

[prisma void]

No I didn't

[edgy cipher]

nvm then

[prisma void]

I think I'll get rid of kommo for something else

Maybe hisuian goodra

[brittle spade]

it shouldn't, av ttar is an easy win against psyspam + torkoal and tera steel kommoo deals with diancie

protect also helps to stall trick room turns

[edgy cipher]

Does this work? https://pokepast.es/a2c710f1ea9e954e

The amongus was originally a p2 but i felt like id rather have more redirection instead of a third tr setter

[edgy cipher]

I am also thinking about changing protect to hh on indeede

[brittle spade]

youll be forced to sometimes lead indeedee+amoonguss so second redirection isn't gonna help very much

if you want a third setter id take out iron hands

[valid quail]

Titty (Tyranitar) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

• Crunch
• Rock Slide
• Protect
• Earthquake

Giddy (Gastrodon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

• Recover
• Sludge Bomb
• Yawn
• Muddy Water

Creepy (Cresselia) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

• Trick Room
• Helping Hand
• Ice Beam
• Psychic

Fiffy (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 96 HP / 204 Def / 208 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

• Power Whip
• Stealth Rock
• Leech Seed
• Gyro Ball

Emmy (Excadrill) (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Drill Run
• Iron Head
• Protect
• Brick Break

Diddy (Deoxys-Attack) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

• Signal Beam
• Energy Ball
• Shadow Ball
• Hidden Power [Fire]

Hello. I'm not very good at pokemon but I made a team with pokemon that I like

I struggle against dark types, but this is for gen 5

I put bug cannon on diddy and that made it a little better

[edgy cipher]

hm

what would you suggest

[edgy cipher]

hi

so a lil thing

you have that little Upload to PokePaste button down there

so you can send a link of ur team

or smth

people do that usually

[valid quail]

i clicked that but it just gave me a little window but no link to paste in

[edgy cipher]

ah dawg really

you should be taken to a site like this

and you should be able to copy a lil link there

[valid quail]

i am but how do i copy paste the link to that site

[edgy cipher]

you just copy this

[edgy cipher]

wha

oh shit you have showdown app

no idea then

[valid quail]

https://pokepast.es/b21ba678b8c0d467

@edgy cipher there you go

[edgy cipher]

Oh uh i am not a team rater

and even if i was i know shit bout older gen formats

||but if i was to say anything is expert belt on ttar good||

||doesnt it run like av usually or something||

[valid quail]

i could switch to weakness policy actually

wait. its not a thing in gen 5

[torpid moat]

neither is av

when in doubt, you run chople ttar

but the team has a lot of issues

@valid quail a sand team should not particularly care about sand chip or not (except for sashes like deo-a in which case it's awful) , all adding gastro and ferro does is stack weaknesses or reduce your options

this team will be quite bad vs an opposing lando-t, or jellicent, or sub metagross because you just have a bunch of mons that lose to the same things

a "sand" team is just a team that happens to have ttar and exca on it

a ttar team is just a team that has ttar on it

you shouldn't ever try to build around sand more than that

your team has other issues like having bad sets like choice band protect exca, inefficient ferro evs, or gastro without ice beam or earth power or toxic

you can get sample sets from this thread https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bw-doubles-ou-newly-updated-sample-teams.3606719/

though ignore the twave spam sand sample team it kinda sucks

it is definitely not standard

the first sample team is a much more reasonable team comp, try making something like that, except with exca on it

[valid quail]

What are ferro and gastro supposed to do normally?

[torpid moat]

ferro is pretty niche in bw, it just runs a tank set with leech seed + leftovers

the more common mon is sub leftovers metagross

which is more balanced than ferro and puts up reliable offensive threat

gastro has strong matchups against thundurus and lando-t, plus a few other mons like kingdra

it runs earth power + ice beam to hit pretty much everything, as well as recover

[valid quail]

So I should replace ferro with metagross

[torpid moat]

the last move can be toxic to hit jellicent

you should start from scratch with the intention of making a balanced team instead of maximizing sand immunity

[valid quail]

Oh I mean I just picked pokemon that I like

[torpid moat]

ttar and exca are both weak to lando and opposing exca, so adding gross just makes it more dangerous

latios and thund are common mons for ttar + exca teams, jellicent too to help with rain matchup

[valid quail]

What are some alternatives to jelly and the genies?

[torpid moat]

I guess you could try to make a shadow tag gothitelle sand

with genesect on it

conk is also not bad

but there is no direct replacement for thund or jelli

you will need them or mons like them to not lose to rain

[valid quail]

Yeah I guess my problem is that I'm being too much of a casual

[torpid moat]

eh, you do you, you don't have to make a perfect team if you wanna just use mons you like

[valid quail]

So, mons aside, what is my main weakness?

Coverage? defensive typing?

[torpid moat]

weak to lando, lacking coverage to beat sub gross, deo being out of place and lacking support, same for ferro

[valid quail]

How can I better support deo?

isn't he like a glass cannon?

[torpid moat]

tbh you just wouldn't want it on a sand team that breaks its sash

it would be more reasonable on kingdra rain for example

[valid quail]

My idea is that ttar can make exca go fast OR can go fast if trick room is up

[torpid moat]

yes, ttar + exca alone is fine

[valid quail]

so ttar should not be 0 speed?

[torpid moat]

it can be 0 speed, but I would make the tr setter jellicent

because it is more useful to a sand team than cress as it is now

[valid quail]

What if ttar wasn't 0 speed, i replaced ferro for metagross, and genesect for deoxys?

[torpid moat]

ttar being 0 speed or not isn't terribly relevant for the rest of your issues, it's probably better to be 0 spe

you would still have a lot of trouble with opposing exca, lando, and metagross

the whole point is to avoid stacking weaknesses

by running mons like thund and lati

[valid quail]

So the meta is using the genie defensive typings?

[torpid moat]

it's not exactly the meta, but on a team with 2 ground weaks already, yes latios and thund are pretty much mandatory

I guess skymin is also an option

[valid quail]

So latios can instead replace deoxys?

I like latios and skymin

[torpid moat]

then start with just ttar exca lati skymin

I keep telling you to stop thinking in terms of replacements and start from scratch, it's a better building practice

after those 4 the main issue is being too reliant on exca to beat opposing gross

[valid quail]

How's this?

[torpid moat]

cresselia and gross can't hit opposing gross, so no

I guess maybe eq gross could do it

but yeah with those 5 jellicent would be the standard last

[edgy cipher]

Oh

[valid quail]

what does this mean

[torpid moat]

if you choose the 5 mons of ttar/exca/skymin/lati/gross

I would pick jellicent as the last mon

[valid quail]

Are there alternatives to jelly?

[torpid moat]

gothitelle, the cress you already have

[valid quail]

Okay. And what kinda moves would they each wanna run?

[torpid moat]

goth would run something like tr/helping hand/psychic/protect

[valid quail]

I mean the whole team when chosing cress

So I just defer to the smogon website?

[torpid moat]

you should not choose cress, because it would be too weak to opposing gross

[valid quail]

i will choose goth instead

[torpid moat]

then with goth, the important parts are to run earthquake gross, also earth power skymin

skymin probably life orb 3 attacks (air slash/seed flare/earth power/protect)

lati can be specs I guess

draco meteor/dragon pulse/psychic/hp ground

make sure it still has max speed

gross runs leftovers meteor mash/earthquake/sub/protect

the rest can use smogdex sets

[valid quail]

Okay. That all makes sense

It seems like this team doesn't worry about trick room as much

[torpid moat]

so the purpose of goth will be to trap things that you want to get rid of right away, like pelipper or kingdra or metagross

[valid quail]

https://pokepast.es/f8643a3b70cf513c

[polar tartan]

My first proper go at building a team, lemme know what y'all think
https://pokepast.es/5690d980d6a600c3

[torpid moat]

principle-wise, it's mostly alright, but you're using a lot of weird or awkward options here where you'd be better off with standard mons/sets

for example, covert cloak tornadus does almost everything drifblim does, but with prankster, better offensive presence, and not relying on a one-time grassy seed

clodsire is kinda just a bad mon, and ting lu outclasses it in role by raw stats

as a side note, when EVing mons, it's generally more efficient to invest up to 252 hp before ever touching defenses

The only exceptions are when deliberately taking an efficiency loss to live specific hits, or when a mon's base hp is at least 2x its base def/spdef, like with Drifblim, in which case def and spdef may be more efficient

for the rest, your sets all have a little awkwardness

life orb rilla is annoying because you take away from its great bulk, especially so on utility moves like fake out and u turn, which is why Assault Vest is standard for it

similar issue with volcanion, you only want to run 4 attacks on assault vest

Otherwise, it's so much more valuable to be running protect if you can

for example I might do fire tera covert cloak steam erupt/heat wave/sludge bomb/protect

booster energy volt switch bolt is also awkward, you don't really want to switch out and lose your one-time boost

on a wider level, your original team was also incredibly weak to lando-i, you generally don't want to stack ground weaks after adding arch

@polar tartan here's an example of an arch-focused team with manual rain torn if you want to go in that direction, but if there was something else you wanted to focus on, you can just use it for inspiration https://pokepast.es/7c84a3903b9ec2cd

[torpid moat]

the simple beam is too gimmicky, also none of your mons have protect

you will likely just be better off with follow me waterpon + tornadus next to some setup mons

this sample team, for example: https://pokepast.es/88cdf287037480f5

[polar tartan]

I thought that myself about Clodsire, but no one expects it and thus no one really has a counter for it. That plus haze lets it take away setups. And when they hit him with water as no one expects water absorb on it, giving him a nice little heal.

And Driftblim is mainly used as a speed control stopper with imprison, which is why it has both trick room and tailwind. Ghost means it can’t get faked out, and with the grass seed and its pairing with rillaboom with grassy surge it’s more or less impossible to outspeed it, only thing that really stops it is prankster, which I usually read and adjust to suit.

But I’ve taken the other points, Rillaboom now has AV, volcanion has protect. Just debating what to put on it, mystic water has been doing some good against bulkier Fire types line Sp.D Inciniroar and Torkoal, but it feels very situational. I haven’t really come across anything that makes it need covert cloak as of yet. Fake outs are pretty easy to read so I just protect

[torpid moat]

the real problem with clod is that it does nothing, it has no significant impact on the game. Ting lu offers even better utility than haze with whirlwind, and actively protects allies from special attacks, including on switchin

[polar tartan]

I’ll give ting lu a try then, any recs on stat distribution and moves?

[torpid moat]

this is a relatively standard set

ah damn hate when that happens

Ting-Lu @ Leftovers  
Ability: Vessel of Ruin  
Tera Type: Fairy  
EVs: 224 HP / 36 Atk / 72 Def / 176 SpD  
Impish Nature  
- Stomping Tantrum  
- Ruination  
- Whirlwind  
- Stealth Rock

on drifblim, you just talked about prankster

the prankster taunt user in question is tornadus

covert cloak torn is also immune to fake out

the only advantage drifblim gets over torn is imprisoning tr past follow me

but it's a lot worse in every other way

and the most important thing I was trying to say was that the team as a whole has issues with faster offensive attackers

maybe you have counterplay for lando-i on its own, but if the lando is next to torn and waterpon it's a different story

not to mention if you go up against truly bad (but less common) matchups like chi-yu regidrago who instantly beat your team

just making direct mon swaps won't fix the core problems, even if everything was an improvement

[polar tartan]

You were right in all fairness, tornadus is pretty damn good, just had a few games with him. I like driftblim though I must admit, if they send a grass type forward acrobatics goes hard as the grassy seed is gone, especially with its speed boost, barely fight a grass type that’s faster than a 402 drifblim without tailwind, with tailwind it’s 800+ which is always fun. But I do admit it’s very situational.

And ting lun is very fun to use. I had not seen much of it and I just forgot about it in general, but I’m very much enjoying it, ruination is a very nice move as it just takes away half hp no matter the bulk. Think he’s replaced Clodsire, but Clodsire will always hold a place in my heart

[prisma void]

After exploring tons of team I finally made a team that I am going to using most of time so this is the team https://pokepast.es/e8522874c95f3a7d
Amoongus as always redirection
Farigarif as a spread dmg + trickroom guy
Tyraniter in case of a matchup agaisnt weather teams and also works in trickroom
Dragonite being the revenge killer and it can also ko things immediately with extreme speed
And landorous as a sp atkr
Wellspring being the op mon it is countering a lot of mons

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wet idol]

Can someone rate my team?

https://pokepast.es/d9d21cf27be196e0

Ive been tryna make it hyper offense

But it might be too slow

[brittle spade]

you can't run screens with hyper offense

you have to decide between making a slower team or getting rid of grimmsnarl

id get rid of giga drain growth and run earth power protect on venusaur

that mon isn't very good

you should run something else like lilligant-h

not sure you're gonna have time to setup hazards with glimmora as well

chiyu needs protect or needs a choice scarf

and torkoal enjoys trick room

you should look at the sun sample team and try to understand how it's built

RMT guys, is there a command to show samples ?

https://pokepast.es/75c24c3ae70c05a8

[wet idol]

removes the point of chi-yu and walking wke

[wet idol]

iron hands is a future paradox pokemon

it runs on electric terrain and not drought

[wet idol]

u get locked in with choice scarf and have to switch out continously defeated the purpose of hyper offense

[peak crypt]

Iron Hands is a better Pokemon without Electric Terrain than Walking Wake is with Sun

It is very difficult to overstate how good Hands is

[wet idol]

ok

Honestly i tried making a team around walking wake

but idk the only idea I had was sun

I wouldn't run a trick room with walking wake or chi-yu

expecially since they outspeed most pokemon

[peak crypt]

The issue is kind of just that Sun itself has to either deal with Torkoal as a dead slot or be willing to facilitate the Torkoal

[wet idol]

torkoal is not terrible

I've used him quite a bit

[peak crypt]

Doing it the first way just kind of stinks so most people opt into the second with things like Lilligant-H and a Trick Room setter

[wet idol]

the teams centered around walking wake

[peak crypt]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-800628

[wet idol]

I would like to see how u explain trick room is gonna help

[peak crypt]

bagel’s team here is a pretty good example of what I’m talking about

It’s still an aggressive sun team but it uses a strong solo Trick Room user to facilitate the Torkoal

Farigiraf is also seen pretty often on these sorts of teams because it can both set Trick Room when needed for Torkoal and protect your Walking Wake and Chi-Yu from priority moves

[wet idol]

but then you have two types of playstyles in one team

is that normal?

cuz shit I'm cooked then

[peak crypt]

Including Trick Room on your team does not make your team a Trick Room team

[wet idol]

read what I said

playstyle

[peak crypt]

You can use TR against opposing Tailwind teams, or you can use your TR to reverse an opponent’s TR

It isn’t “two playstyles in one team”

[wet idol]

I can see where this comes from tho

if torkoal dies u have trick room

so ur strat isn't completely ruined

[peak crypt]

Think of it less as a direction and more as a tool that you can use if the game calls for it

[wet idol]

and then u don't need to add random junk

also what does smeargle do?

is it just support>

[peak crypt]

The Smeargle in this game was meant to click Decorate on the Diancie, but it got stopped by Ogerpon

[wet idol]

so support

[peak crypt]

Pretty much

[wet idol]

but it can get one shotted

it's defense is you could fart on it

[peak crypt]

It’s not a necessary inclusion by any means; you could run something like a Rillaboom in that slot if you wanted

[wet idol]

and it would faint

[peak crypt]

Smeargle isn’t meant to survive a long time

[wet idol]

yeah but then u get one spot just taken

[peak crypt]

Between Fake Out, Spore, Decorate, and most likely Follow Me, Smeargle has a lot of ways to enable the big offensive threats the rest of the team has, and it really only needs to do that for a turn or two

Like I said, it’s not a necessary part of this sort of team

If I were building Sun I’d probably just put another attacker in that spot, most likely one on the bulkier side

[wet idol]

I was thinking of gouging fire but thought it fight be too risky

3 pokemon weak to ground and rock

[peak crypt]

Gouging Fire ironically doesn’t see much play on Sun

[wet idol]

lol

Ive tried incenaroar to get a feeling but he's way too support

[peak crypt]

It’s seen a lot more often with fast Howl sets alongside Pokemon like Ogerpon and Ting-Lu

[wet idol]

Just added ogerpon hearthflame

[wet idol]

with this match I'd say he brought out iron hands too late

in trick room he could've been a beast

https://pokepast.es/7c6cbb356e580d09

alr new and improved

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

The first couple turns of TR, bagel needed to keep trying to Decorate the Diancie because Ogerpon could just KO it without a boost

[wet idol]

hmm alr

[peak crypt]

But the Ogerpon also had to click Follow Me to not give Diancie the boosts, because if it didn’t click Follow Me it would just faint

So they had to play a bit of a stalemate

[wet idol]

alr

playing rn

nah I lost

some guys hitmontop guessed I was gonna use eruption and used wide guard

bro was playing 4d chess

[wet idol]

I just beat someone without losing a pokemon 💀

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2227214621

[brittle spade]

So there seems to be a miscomprehension here, what I pasted is a team validated and used by top players in this tier, this is what consistently works. I am very much aware of what Iron Hands' ability is and I can assure you I have the experience to give you accurate feedback on how to build your team.

[wet idol]

i forgot about booster energy bro

https://pokepast.es/ced6befb3c88c50d

just rate this

my team is similar but with my own variation

there's barely any difference

[wet idol]

and watch this based on my gameplay

ok I might change ogerpon hearthflame it has no fire type moves

[peak crypt]

Ivy Cudgel matches Ogerpon's mask

so Hearthflame Ogerpon has Fire type Ivy Cudgel

[prisma void]

^

[torpid moat]

you should have ttar be 252 hp, not 252 spdef, and your farig doesn't need all of that coverage, try cutting one of the attacks for nasty plot

[wet idol]

what?

mine turned grass for some reason

[peak crypt]

if it was a Grass move when it dealt damage then you should report that as a bug

[wet idol]

even in teambuilding it says grass

do u know how to report a bug/

[peak crypt]

it's going to say grass in teambuilder because it looks that way ingame

ingame it only visually changes type when you're in battle

but the damage type will always match the mask you're holding

[wet idol]

oh

lemme run a test

ivy cudgel is fire type

[prisma void]

Both voice and psychic are stabs so I'm replacing gleam I guess

[wet idol]

chi-yu does an UNGODLY amount of damage

and torkoal

they can one shot anything

[inland parcel]

https://pokepast.es/21a03d279d2b625b

I know flutter main, but I’m entering a DOU tournament where you can only bring 1 legendary

I don’t see any DUBER rates but help me if you can

[brittle spade]

define legendary

if koraidon miraidon are allowed you're gonna get dunked on ad infinitum

i'm not even talking about the rest of the mons which are atrocious in a DOU setting

[inland parcel]

Only the weaker legends like the bird and lake trios

[peak crypt]

Does it actually use the DOU ruleset with that additional restriction, or does it allow one legend and then anything else?

[brittle spade]

oh i see lmao

[brittle spade]

imagine they put restrictions on the lake trio but left annihilape basculegion unbanned

[brittle spade]

tell us your exact ruleset and don't leave out a word

[sturdy pendant]

https://pokepast.es/d8e93fa7a6365751

[torpid moat]

you should give your chi-yu protect over snarl or dark pulse, and hands could probably be a rillaboom, also consider changing lando tera and/or replacing psychic for sub/sandsear

psychic only really hits amoong harder, and I guess opposing lando

[inland parcel]

https://pokepast.es/c6da0b2765807fe8

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[inland parcel]

Trying out a rain team

Id like advice

It’s a tournament team where I pick 9 and bring 6 to the battle, I can have 2 legend/paradoxes but only 1 to battle

[peak crypt]

You can probably collapse the Kingambit and Raichu into a single Archaludon and then have a free slot to play with

Raichu is never as good as anyone wants it to be unfortunately

[inland parcel]

: (

Kingambit does wonders in this team

[torpid moat]

if you're not using arch, gholdengo is the other preferred steel for rain

and then you would likely be running pao instead of gambit

peli/pao/basc/arch/rilla/lando wouldn't be a bad 6

[inland parcel]

I Can’t have 2 legends in a battle

Id get rid of tornatus or pao

[torpid moat]

oh right mb

[torpid moat]

did you confirm if annihilape/basc-m are legal?

[inland parcel]

We did not ban them

[brittle spade]

then you bring them if you want a chance at winning :
https://pokepast.es/0c4e03049635a757
https://pokepast.es/586a64be2125ba11
there are very little legendaries that match the strength of basculegion and annihilape

it's why they are banned whereas we couldn't care less if someone wants to pack their team with legendary trios

the top pokemon in your format are magearna, urshifu, annihilape, basculegion, flutter mane

https://tenor.com/view/mmmm-monkey-monkey-ug-master-oogway-oogway-gif-19727561