Smogon Doubles Rates

[peak crypt]

I don't really think any team does honestly

Cress fits better on this team because it's a lot harder to kill

[grizzled pumice]

I thought so but if he found that's the issue for him slot something that could fill a slot he likes using

Among us maybe?

[peak crypt]

like if that slot was just a Rillaboom I'm sure the team would play similarly (or even better)

same with Iron Hands

[grizzled pumice]

Iron hands is fat AF

[peak crypt]

Ogerpon can already redirect anyway, I don't think Amoong or Sinistcha really need to do that

[grizzled pumice]

Ogers attack tho so youre just sacking the mon with no benefite

[peak crypt]

part of Ogerpon's strength is that it presents an offensive threat and can click Follow Me when needed

this team has a Flutter Mane and a Chi-Yu, Dee doesn't need to play toward a Kommo-o wincon most games because those two can just do a murder

and Oger can threaten Ivy Cudgel on the Fires that would want to answer them

but the same Ogerpon that just one shot a Heatran can click Follow Me later to clear the way for Kommo-o

I also don't think Sinistcha really works with the rest of the team

it's really good when you can keep stuff like Volcanion and Iron Hands alive

stuff with a lot of natural bulk, sometimes augmented with AV or their own healing, that your opponent really has to try hard to knock out

but things like Flutter and Chi-Yu generally need to invest in defenses to take one hit

let alone multiple

[primal bramble]

the value i get is a helping hand, will-o-wisp setter

[torpid moat]

there are many, many options with helping hand, including cress and indeedee itself

helping hand is what you run when your mon sucks

and wisp is counterproductive to tr's hyper offensive goal

you'd rather kill stuff than wisp it

dusclops is tanky and dodges fake out, sure, but not taunt or spore

and can't really do anything to protect or aid allies like a sinistcha or cress could

or be offensive like diancie

[crude oracle]

bc i didn't know what type of move a fairy drifbloom could throw at me, and I don't doubt a crit fairy tera blast would shit on my iron hands

I think that was my thought process

[torpid moat]

it would not because drifblim sucks

and playing around crits is incorrect

[pulsar sinew]

You unfortunately played poorly there.

Playing around crits should never be considered, they are luck based.

[grizzled pumice]

And even so pretty sure iron hands eats a crit anyway

Yummy yummy

[pulsar sinew]

And even if it were to be crit, hands would survive because drif hits like a wet noodle.

[grizzled pumice]

You should never be switching unless you know for a fact their best move is to hit your guy with that move.

[pulsar sinew]

It's more tailored around support, which would be the most effective way to use it with boom, albeit it's not great as you could be taunted.

[peak crypt]

hey gang we don't need to all dog pile on them for playing poorly

[grizzled pumice]

We're not, we just wanna tell him what he did so he knows what happened not to berate him.

[peak crypt]

sure, it wasn't a very well played game, but leave the game advice to the people with the helper role

and if someone's already brought it up, let them handle it

having four different people on them about playing better is a great way to get them to not come back at all

[grizzled pumice]

I disagree. Having a large amount of people willing to help would make me more likely to return

[peak crypt]

in my experience helping people here and elsewhere, too many voices just makes people log off

and I've been helping people play Pokemon for more than a decade now

[grizzled pumice]

It'd not like we're calling him bad he's a fine player he just needs to get more game knowledge. If he knew the driftblim he could make the better choice it's not insulting its a learning experience

[peak crypt]

I've seen my fair share of people leave after basically getting bullied in these situations

[grizzled pumice]

But we're not bullying him lmao

[peak crypt]

in other words

shut up and let the people with the helper role do the helping

while the extra input is nice, nobody needs an entire chatroom full of people telling them how to play Pokemon when one person can do it just fine

and too many voices saying too many different things can drown out the individual bits of advice and overwhelm the person you're trying to help

[grizzled pumice]

A total of 4 people gave advice, 2 of them have the helper role, 1 said driftblim stinks and I gave one piece of advice. No one bullied him and the majority of the information was given by the helpers.

But go off queen

[coral warren]

Hey, lets stop it on this argument. Anyone is welcome to help, but when somebody already is helping out, you don't need to join in, unless the person that is receiving the advice is unsatisfied/needs futher explaining, which can still be solved by the raters.

[tight spire]

smh tryhards

[coral warren]

[crude oracle]

eh

ig

[peak crypt]

the tl;dr from all of what people have said @crude oracle is basically: you are playing super scared and it's probably costing you games

click your buttons with gusto

don't get too attached to creating the perfect setup, because the perfect setup usually won't exist

learn to recognize your opportunities to deal damage and take advantage of them, and you will win more games

[crude oracle]

ye

[crude oracle]

@nikotov @peak crypt @pulsar sinew @torpid moat

ty

all for the advice

oh the

nikotov dude

skedaddled ig

[fathom fog]

https://pokepast.es/84e84d9f52389abd

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fathom fog]

i made the single most generic team ever

it works for no reason

it just works

[brittle spade]

Simple doesn't mean bad

You could probably afford to run support landorus

With rocks

[fathom fog]

i dont rlly like rocks

i like damage

[torpid moat]

in the end, rocks are damage

[peak crypt]

yeah I really tried to say “this person doesn’t need four different people telling them they played a game poorly” and they got upset

[crude oracle]

yeah I get what they tried doing but overwhelming a person with 4 different perspectives doesn't rlly work 😭

also yeah

kommo feels

absolutely great

tbh

[peak crypt]

glad I could help though!

Clanger is pretty strong

[crude oracle]

yeah as long as they don't predict

a steel tera right away

I can almost always setup

[peak crypt]

You don’t even have to use Tera on it immediately

Dragon/Fighting has a pretty wide set of resists

[crude oracle]

I try to use the tera for example againt flutter and whatnot

or anything that could

do great dmg agaisnt kommo

I do need to play more matches tho

I barely play

[crude oracle]

@peak crypt

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2001186447

so

i have issues with

starting out matches

so what is something i couldve changed this opening

[peak crypt]

hit your Bleakwind Storm next time

[crude oracle]

there was a point where i was debating dark tera sini when leaves came out next to ninetales

but i then realized

valiant bullies then

[peak crypt]

The answer was probably just to go hard Kommo-o on turn 2 instead of bringing in Scream Tail

Valiant isn’t going to switch in on Tornadus and you can still fire off Sun boosted Flamethrower into the Tusk slot, or even just hard Clang and see where it gets you

[crude oracle]

can u explain on why komm turn 2? so i understand it

i dont rlly follow the plan abt it ig

[peak crypt]

Tornadus + Scream Tail is a really bad board and Kommo-o is only other thing not weak to one of Ground or Fire on the team

(And conveniently it isn’t weak to Fighting either)

[crude oracle]

okay understandable that actually makes sense

ty for explaining

[peak crypt]

no

np*

[crude oracle]

@peak crypthttps://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2001197541

i feel like

when i switched rilla in

i shouldve fake out weavile instead

thoughts?

[peak crypt]

first thought is you shouldn't have stayed in with Tornadus

[crude oracle]

yeah i realised that aswell

[peak crypt]

Icy Wind Weavile is not very good but the Taunt wasn't really going to get you anywhere anyway

[crude oracle]

didnt feel like i need tailwind

[peak crypt]

and again you clicked Heavy Slam instead of Drain Punch on a thing weak to Drain Punch

click Drain Punch!!

[crude oracle]

but its weak to

heavy slam aswell no?

i get drain punch gets hp but

tbh no excuse

[peak crypt]

it also gets STAB

[crude oracle]

no clue

o tru

[peak crypt]

and is 4x super effective on Weavile instead of 2x, and isn't resisted by anything on that team except Pelipper (who is NOT switching in on an Iron Hands lol)

[crude oracle]

good point

i was debating between heavy and drain punch there

[peak crypt]

you could have just clicked Grassy Glide on the Weavile and Drain Punch on the Regieleki

Eleki can't hit either of Rilla or Hands particularly well so you're not really in danger

[crude oracle]

ok noted, ty again

sorry for all the pings

[peak crypt]

you also clicked Wild Charge on the Regieleki instead of Drain Punch

Iron Hands isn't nearly as good if you're constantly clicking resisted moves

[crude oracle]

yeah

also the kommo setup at the end wasnt needed

but felt great ngl

[peak crypt]

yeah you could have just clicked Clanging Scales

but at that point you had already won super hard so it didn't really matter what buttons you pressed

[crude oracle]

exactly

[peak crypt]

as long as you pressed them on your opponent's Pokemon and not your own

[crude oracle]

lmao

also in a previous battle

someone did

life dew from sinistcha and hit their own gholdengo

why?

is that something im missing info abt lmao

[peak crypt]

Gholdengo should be immune to Life Dew

they might have just not realized it wouldn't work

[crude oracle]

yes but it afterwards said "sinistcha health is already max health" or sum like that

so idk

[jagged needle]

apparently the uploading doesnt fucking work so i have a txt file

what am i doing hmso horribly wrong here

im probably gonna replace ogerpon with ting lu or something

and for aome reason glastrier has a very slight appeal

[jagged needle]

they work

[peak crypt]

I'm gonna be honest with you: I can't really make sense of that at a glance so I'm not going to put more effort in

idk if replay files can be played through the site once the replay server is back up

but I can watch a couple games live if you'd like some time

[crude oracle]

@peak crypt could toxapex have usability in doubles?

idk wtf it does tho

I just like the way it looks

[brittle spade]

here is a team featuring toxapex not being completely useless : https://pokepast.es/3301d712014337b7

[crude oracle]

atm I'm trying to make a sort of gimmick team rn that includes toxapex

like toxic heal gliscor with assault vest

toxa poisons it

so bulky boi

[brittle spade]

not having protect on toxic heal gliscor sounds bad

that would also be extremely passive

[crude oracle]

true but that's what will make the challenge more fun

[brittle spade]

like, you're actively going out of your way to make your life harder

[crude oracle]

yes

[crude oracle]

the thing is

if idk what I'm doing

then the enemy can't predict

[brittle spade]

your enemy doesn't need to predict anything if you're going toxapex gliscor

[crude oracle]

true but imma ignore that

ngl this team is too much effort to make

😭

I'll j use the one u sent

[brittle spade]

a wise move

[peak crypt]

Toxapex is generally only good if the player is good

Otherwise sending out Toxapex will usually lose you the game on the spot

[shell arrow]

Just wondering but how did Ttar claw it's way back to DOU? Is sand viable again in doubles?

[tight spire]

Its because a couple of very high elo ladder players were running sand teams this month

[shell arrow]

But what do sand teams even do. It's not like there are any good sand abusers

[tight spire]

One of them straight up was using mono rock

Thats why kleavor is also dou now

Its just dou ladder being dou ladder

[shell arrow]

Lmao I suppose that also explains Harcanine

[tight spire]

Yeah

For example take a lot at abomasnows usage in 1825 elo stats

Theres only one guy using abomasnow that high up

[polar lotus]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2003551796-8350ldxkvnudzc72md3amhr3tvs4ouzpw Idk how I won but it was at least a refresher

hopefullt the next totw live tour is a doubles game

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2003558113

[toxic night]

https://pokepast.es/cdd663d7fc2b689f I don't feel that this team has enough synergy and just overall feel like it doesn't work. I would like to keep ninetales and baxcalibur but I take any advice.

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[polar lotus]

intersting

ngl I kinda wanna see how scarf kinggambit will play out

but im not really someone you should rely on for DOU advice, I think @tight spire and @peak crypt can help you

[toxic night]

It usually doesn't do a lot, but late game kowtow kleaves with ally switch tricks have worked for me a once or twice

[peak crypt]

I'm a little busy so I can't really do any indepth work on it

[polar lotus]

oh

thats ok

[peak crypt]

but Rotom-W hasn't been good in a very long time, Scarf Kingambit isn't a particulary good set, and other sets need some work too

(actually Ogerpon's fine. that one doesn't need any work. it's cool)

[tight spire]

Hmmmm maybe I could see you go with Landorus-T over rotom here and convert ogerpon-h into wellspring maybe...

Landorus is quite nice to have for a snow team compared to having a fire type

[neat berry]

Could anyone help me with my team, please?

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/view-team-172856-tqjbqw6cn81g5dtfq8d4

[shell arrow]

You might wanna post your team as a pokepaste

[torpid moat]

link works for me

repasted: https://pokepast.es/e19a5d8c7ac671c3

try using tornadus instead of illumise and like

palafin or basculegion-f instead of crawdaunt

[peak crypt]

I think the biggest issue for this team structurally is that everything is super slow; you have Tailwind, but everything besides Ogerpon is already so slow that you're not really beating any of the format's fast Pokemon, and if your opponent happens to have their own speed control then you will just go second every single turn.

Yellow Paint's suggestion of Palafin and Tornadus over Crawdaunt and Illumise is a good one that will help keep your Pokemon a little faster, and it replaces the two worst Pokemon on the team with better ones.

The sets you have on Kingambit and Sinistcha could use a little work too - Tera Normal isn't really going to help you accomplish much with Sinistcha, and Kingambit has next to no use for Poison Jab and Stone Edge. On Kingambit, I'd swap those two moves for Sucker Punch and Low Kick. I think Sinistcha would be better off with Matcha Gotcha, Rage Powder, Trick Room, and a fourth move of your choice, with a more relevant defensive Tera type - Fire and Water both flip some natural weaknesses, and Dark gives you Ghost and Dark resists and an immunity to Prankster Taunt

[polar lotus]

https://pokepast.es/92ab2c5efa966465 So I was thinking about making a DOU rain team, and once archuladon comes out, I'm replacing gholdengo with that

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

you don't need two rain settesr

take out the pelipper and put tornadus

or politoed and run landorus

with sandsear storm

[polar lotus]

https://pokepast.es/b9d40710df1c52d8 So more like this?

[peak crypt]

Something more like that yeah

There’s a reasonable chance Archaludon won’t replace Gholdengo though

[polar lotus]

Tbh the rain team was mostly a combo of FFA and how my Gen 5 OU team worked

[tough sky]

https://pokepast.es/88b7fe05a6dfd026 rate my team

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

Tatsugiri is banned from Doubles OU

[tough sky]

ok

[peak crypt]

Rotom-Fan is also not good in the slightest

This is one of those times where I’d recommend you play with one of the sample teams alongside your own; using a sample team will probably help push you up the ladder a bit and will help you learn what threats are important and a little bit of how sets are constructed

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-sample-teams.3710876/#post-9399767

If you just want to use Tatsugiri, I’d recommend you head over to the VGC Rates channel - though they’ll give you an earful about the sets you’ve chosen (the same way I would if I weren’t just pointing you toward sample teams)

[tough sky]

thanks

[jagged needle]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2007863958 cool game, rate my team and plays

please

https://pokepast.es/763bcd0ea5dad19c

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

Grimmsnarl doesn't really fit on TR

think of TR as hyper offense

Indeedee is about the only support you can really afford because the rest of the team needs to be dealing damage (or clicking Spore, because Spore in TR is a threat too)

Close Combat is pretty unnecessary on Ursaluna too

[tight spire]

yeah I'm thinking it's a bit too support heavy, setting screens on TR only really works if you do like snow aurora veil and its just one click

[peak crypt]

there's really only one Pokemon Normal/Ground misses that Close Combat can actually deal damage to, and that's Corviknight, who Sucks™️

[tight spire]

Sword Dance Ursaluna is better

[peak crypt]

Crunch to nail Sinistcha works too

[tight spire]

oh does it get crunchy?

usually I just raise my attack to +6 and eq it

[jagged needle]

i tried it

im bad with setups

[tight spire]

u could go with crunch instead then

but Swords Dance is generally for when either A: the opponet is trying to Landorus-T juggle you

or B: the opponet's trying to predict you will use protect turn 1

there really is no reason to run Close Combat unless for some reason you wanna win an Ursaluna 1v1

[peak crypt]

(Facade does that anyway)

[jagged needle]

okey

dokey

[tight spire]

depends, I find a lotta ursaluna have enough support to live one facade usually

[jagged needle]

time to give some psychic/ghost types the bite of 87

[tight spire]

I would also suggest

giving ursaluna a defensive tera type

I use tera poison myself

this is a bulky mon that often gets worn down easily so you wanna increase its survivability not damage output

its already strong enough

[jagged needle]

would fire be good (i forget what types it resists and gets killed by)

[tight spire]

If you go fire you could do fire punch maybe, thats good vs Flutter Mane

but

Ursaluna is often targeted by water type attacks

[jagged needle]

fair

[tight spire]

Poison is good bc its also good against

Iron Hands

[torpid moat]

fire gets awkward sometimes if you're paired with cress

[jagged needle]

i dont see many urshifus here so

[torpid moat]

urshi is banned

[jagged needle]

oh right

im not in vgc

[tight spire]

there's not really many threatening water types rn but

they ARE there

[jagged needle]

(rip palafin)

[tight spire]

Ogerpon, basc

palafin sometimes shows up

[torpid moat]

volcanion palafin

[tight spire]

yea

volc is a big one

[jagged needle]

wish palafin saw more use

[tight spire]

Volcanion is often paired with Rillaboom

[jagged needle]

volc can get headlong rushed in TR

[tight spire]

and that makes it hard to kill

with ursa

[jagged needle]

and rilla can uhhhhhhhh

[torpid moat]

palafin loses so hard to waterpon and dragons and rilla

[tight spire]

so you wanna focus on fighting rilla

[jagged needle]

does facade kill rilla

[tight spire]

bc rilla is a big threat to ursa

yes

but it won't let you hit it

[jagged needle]

ok good

[tight spire]

poison is good for this

bc u don't lose to volc

[jagged needle]

ok

[tight spire]

if you tera fire

[jagged needle]

also

hows grimm

i swapped ogerpon hearthflame with it

because it wasnt used often

[tight spire]

usually when I can't think of what to put on a team I just add flutter mane, but Grimm doesn't have much offense here

it only will set screens (and it takes 2 turns to get both them up) and that's about it

[jagged needle]

flutter doesnt work either

[jagged needle]

idk stat drops are threatening too

but yeah grimms for better switch ins and setups

[tight spire]

Iron Hands maybe

with a psychic seed

[jagged needle]

i cant position indeedee with arma well

[torpid moat]

flutter is fine

[jagged needle]

maybe

but fake out is

[torpid moat]

also I recommend not using indeedee arma

[jagged needle]

nuh uh

[jagged needle]

shut up

[tight spire]

you just gotta be smart if using indee

[jagged needle]

ill not use it when i uhhh

dont use it

[torpid moat]

it's match up dependent, and it only gets worse as you face better opponents

[tight spire]

I think if you wanna use indeede-arma you gotta be

semi-room

usually

bc like

once Chi-Yu shows up

rip

[jagged needle]

true

semi room will die to chi-yu flutter

if it goes out

[torpid moat]

not necessarily

[tight spire]

there's a pre dlc sample that used arma-indeedee sun

[torpid moat]

semiroom can run hands etc

or flutter checks

[jagged needle]

i tried that

[jagged needle]

physical moves check flutter pretty well

but besides that

theres too many suggestions on what to add

so ill maybe make a different semi room team

without indeedee and arma

also im starting to rely less on arma and diancie recently

which means more trick room setting up

[torpid moat]

yeah try a second team

[jagged needle]

alr i gtg for like 20 mins

[crude oracle]

@peak crypt does tandemaus or maushold whatever the last Evo is. any use in doubles?

[peak crypt]

Maushold, and not much any more

It saw some before Home but once Flutter got banned it kind of disappeared

[crude oracle]

flutter got banned?

what did I miss

tf

[peak crypt]

Whoops

Unbanned

[crude oracle]

oh

[peak crypt]

It was banned before Home

[crude oracle]

😭

[peak crypt]

I just forgot the Un

[crude oracle]

I was confused yea

hmm

but is it still usable at all?

or just not anymore

[peak crypt]

But yeah Maus just doesn’t cut it in this format

It’s outclassed as a support by Ogerpon, and offensively it struggles against the more widely available speed control

[crude oracle]

aw

that's ungortunate

unfortunate

@peak cryptsince its been a while since i dueled

https://pokepast.es/c23f9e991ca9c59f

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[crude oracle]

was there anything in needed to chanhe

i dont rlly remember

[peak crypt]

This team was working a lot better for you than what you had before

I think the major “update” would be changing the Sinistcha and Scream Tail slots

This team has a lot of board states that don’t really have much pressure, so swapping out one of those two would help the team out a lot

With that being said, we’re going to get a significant meta shift in just a few days

(And we might be closing this channel until DOU quickban slates have finished)

[polar lotus]

wait what

[peak crypt]

DLC2 is this week

[polar lotus]

oh yea

I really wanna test out archuladon once it comes out

or blaziken

[peak crypt]

Blaziken will be bad

Archaludon really depends on what its stats look like

Duraludon sucked last gen

If Archaludon has the same BST as Duraludon, like how Scyther, Scizor, and Kleavor all have the same BST, it will probably also suck

[polar lotus]

It does have stanima and sturdy from what Ive seen, so it could serve as a niche wall

[urban summit]

Stamina is insane

[crude oracle]

@peak crypt what abt abomasnow?

I seen hella ppl use it single but would it be useful in doubles

[tight spire]

Come into my office i've got the abomasnow info

You can use abomasnow over ninetales-a if you are running Trick Room

[urban summit]

But it’s still worse

[tight spire]

Not if u run trick room!

You got that nice grass type immune to amoongus and a better offensive movepool

smh they shoulda kept it tier 5

[polar lotus]

NGL I feel bad for swampert at the upcoming DLC

Having a 4X weakness to grass in a metagame filled with ogerpon definitely sucks

Oh yea and rillaboom

Im just gonna pray that swampert gets sap sipper

even if thats highly unlikely

[crude oracle]

@peak crypt what about switching my scream tail for someone like Arcanine? bc it can be a threat or defensively built

and intimidate

[unborn marten]

was this q before or after I gave you a harc set

[crude oracle]

before

lmao

talking abt that

i only been winning with it

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2009367310

most recent match

[unborn marten]

happy to hear it bro

[crude oracle]

ngl those intimidate switches make it so nice to switch into hands with stuff

[tough drum]

https://pokepast.es/d3001cf54a4cf7b8 tried building a dou team

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

questions:

why do you have double weather

why do you have Torkoal and Booster Energy on both your Protosynthesis Pokemon

[tough drum]

ough i forgot torkoal had drought

[tough drum]

and as for this idk, i just cobbled some sample sets

[brittle spade]

pick your poison, it's hail or sun

[peak crypt]

walk me through the teambuilding process

what were you thinking when you built the team?

[tough drum]

i tried to make use of snow

[peak crypt]

why did you choose the Pokemon you did?

[tough drum]

i heard that iron bundle is good, abomasnow to set snow, torkal cuz eruption, amoongus cuz idk 💀, flutter mane so i had a fairy type and roaring moon so i could have a dragon type

[peak crypt]

this isn't like a "how could you build like this" thing, I just want to know what your thought process was like

Bundle isn't really a thing you build around unless your name is @tight spire

but really I think the Abomasnow is the bad thing here

it's kind of just there and doesn't really match the rest of the team

[tough drum]

i have like, zero experience with building teams, even more so with doubles

[peak crypt]

having a Dragon type isn't inherently a good thing any more, mostly because of how strong Flutter Mane is

[tough drum]

maybe i should put a steel type in roaring moon's place

[peak crypt]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/

this thread will help you a lot

typing is important but typing is nowhere near everything

stats, stat distribution, and movepool are often much more important

have you played any games with the team yet?

[tough drum]

yeah im much more used to the way i build teams in regular, casual playthrough

[tough drum]

no

[peak crypt]

I think this team's core problem is that a lot of these Pokemon are good in a vacuum (except Abomasnow) but they don't work particularly well with each other

Bundle, Flutter, and Moon all have speed control, but you don't have anything that really takes advantage of that speed control

I would probably swap to Choice Specs Flutter Mane and drop the Abomasnow for something that provides more immediate damage

and run Knock Off over Acrobatics on Roaring Moon - if you're using Torkoal you won't reliably pop your Booster Energy

you could just run Chi-Yu over Abomasnow and have a super aggressive offensive comp

but you could also try something a little less aggro like Lando-T

Torkoal also isn't going to be moving first ever, except against opposing Trick Room, so consider Overheat over Eruption

[tough drum]

Ok, thank you

[warm river]

stall

suggest changes maybe

[peak crypt]

Suggestion is don’t play stall

Stall in DOU is bad unless you’re really good

[tight spire]

I can see issues here with fighting snow baxcalibur
Iron Hands is obviously a threat to this team,
Gothitelle isnt really good enough to check it and you prob should be running Competetive on it for landorusT (a lot of those teams also carry iron hands on them so at least you can fight them at +2)

Stall isnt exactly amazing rn but thats all i can think of

[unborn marten]

I would prob stick twave on chansey instead of tbolt

or probably just just protect/heal pulse actually

there's a lot of status on this team, but I think thunderbolt does not do that much

[brittle spade]

It's bad and you need to rework the whole team with a single thought in mind : how do I not get 6-0ed by nasty plot gholdengo

[unborn marten]

tbh I agree with artics suggestion

this team has only pre home let alone pre dlc asw

it's just not prepared for the current threat level

[brittle spade]

current threat level is midnight

[pseudo pilot]

@humble cloak

[coral warren]

@humble cloak

[humble cloak]

thx

just rebuilded the team
ive been on a losing streak of 5/6
im feeling so many things are missing, but i cant fix them.
help
https://pokepast.es/8f30b99fe8eb8ddb

[coral warren]

@unborn marten

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tardy bear]

One issue you'll find is how bad Sableye and Arboliva are

[humble cloak]

why?

[peak crypt]

the Pokemon are just not very good

[humble cloak]

i use arboliva for forcing someone to switch and lowering attack

[peak crypt]

there are a lot of things that need to be fixed up here

primarily that you are playing a full Trick Room team with a single Trick Room user

[humble cloak]

which second trick room user should i use?

[peak crypt]

it's already on your team! drop Dazzling Gleam on Diancie

[humble cloak]

and should i replace sableye with grimmsnarl?

[peak crypt]

no, that doesn't help either

think of Trick Room like a hyper offense team

sure, you invest in bulk because you're using Trick Room, but you have a very limited time to take advantage of it before you have to reset it manually

so stuff like Arboliva and Sableye, which aren't really contributing anything besides being annoying, are wasting your Trick Room turns

[humble cloak]

should i replace arboliva for something like kingambit?

[peak crypt]

I was thinking Rillaboom

you keep the Grass typing and you gain priority and a second Fake Out

[humble cloak]

grass glider, fakeout, grass glider and brick break?

[peak crypt]

Fake Out, Grassy Glide, Wood Hammer, U-turn usually

[humble cloak]

ok

assault vest?

[peak crypt]

yes

Sableye could become a Kingambit if you want, or it could even be a third Trick Room setter instead

having extra things with Trick Room means you can keep it up more often and don't have to waste time repositioning every time it runs out

[humble cloak]

like an armarouge?

trick room + offensive

[peak crypt]

Armarouge really only wants to be paired with Indeedee; its stats are a little too low otherwise

I was looking at Farigiraf personally

[humble cloak]

why farigiraf?

wouldnt make the team vulnerable to dark?

1 resist to 2 weaknesses

or no?

[peak crypt]

Diancie and Iron Hands both resist Dark

[humble cloak]

oh

real

forgot

which set should i use in farigiraf?

offensive?

[peak crypt]

yeah, Psychic / Tera Blast / Nasty Plot / Trick Room seems pretty solid on this team

here let me pass you a new import

I'll fix up some EV spreads in the meantime

[humble cloak]

ok

ty for the help

[peak crypt]

Cresselia's moveset is also kind of whack

one of Cress's strongest aspects is Lunar Blessing, and you've completely left it off

[humble cloak]

i wasnt using cuz cresselia didnt had much opportunity

and i didnt saw any problem dont having it

until the amonguss / brute bonnet thingy

[peak crypt]

with more offense on the team you'll get more opportunities to use it

[humble cloak]

yes, i would change it

[peak crypt]

https://pokepast.es/69e2de1654a1c60c

a quick note on EV spreads:

generally you want to max out your HP first unless a Pokemon has a gigantic HP stat and very low defensive stats

so 252 Def / 252 SpD Cress is less bulky than a Cress with 252 HP and mixed defensive EVs

meanwhile, Iron Hands really likes high Special Defense investment, because its HP is so high that you get diminishing returns on HP investment

[humble cloak]

i see

[peak crypt]

Farigiraf is... weird, and this 88/84/84 EV spread is marginally better than 252 HP

[humble cloak]

lol

ok

tysm tho

[peak crypt]

yw!

keep in mind that the new DLC comes out in less than 24 hours

so this team will probably want further changes soon

but I can't help you with those yet because... we don't know for sure what we're getting

[humble cloak]

ok

i will try to be on with the changes

[tawny salmon]

Closed for DLC2. Stay tuned for when it reopens!

[tawny salmon]

opened

[polar lotus]

yipee

[tight spire]

Mish

[cyan patio]

I know my team is very bad please help https://pokepast.es/ca978d0d54925573

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[unborn marten]

on its face this doesnt look awful

[cyan patio]

typing for so long is scaring me

[unborn marten]

dw

[cyan patio]

Are you sure I shouldn’t worry

[unborn marten]

incineroar item should be like boots or sitrus. incin is a pivoting mon, and doesn't really benefit from staying on the field to make leftovers useful
moveset is generally fine, either pick between parting shot or taunt. you definitely want to have flare blitz imo, mine always do
I would go with parting shot personally, if I was going to go with taunt incin it would be on a team which is weak to tr, but you have a slow tr team.

gambit set is fine ev wise, however you may want to go with a tera type such as fairy or fire, as ghost does not do that much for you in general
fairy for the 4x fighting resist and fairy's generally good neutral defensive profile, fire for wisp immunity, alternatively you can just go dark for extra damage.

I won't tell you to change hydrapple, as I can tell that this team was probably built to include it, so if you want to use it, I would maybe consider using fickle beam instead of or next to draco meteor. the most droppable here is probably pollen puff, as you already have a cresselia to be healing a teammate that would not want to take a status such as gambit

for diancie, typical EV investment is max hp max attack with a sassy nature to be able to survive a volcanion's steam eruption. since diancie's special attack is not that good, you can either go with moonblast if you want the fairy coverage, or even opt for body press to make use of the defense boosts from diamond storm to hit things like heatran that threaten you, once you're under trick room and can attack more safely without spending tera
common tera types are grass to prevent amoongus' spore, alternatively fire is somewhat popular, I would consider one of these.
my own opinion is that you almost definitely want diancie to be tera grass here due to an overall lando-i weakness
as for the item, either stone plate or goggles are good, depending on what tera type you choose. if you go something other than grass, I would consider goggles to set tr against amoonguss easily.

ursaluna already has a good defense stat, so you can opt to change your ev spread. I don't remember what the special attack stat does, but here is a spread of mine I use on a CM blood moon team.

Ability: Mind's Eye  
Tera Type: Poison  
EVs: 252 HP / 88 SpA / 168 SpD  
Quiet Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe  
- Calm Mind  
- Blood Moon  
- Earth Power  
- Protect```

I like tera poison a lot, since it resists grass and fighting, and can set up in the face of things like rillaboom or iron hands easier and avoid toxic spikes from glimmora for example.

as for cress, this isn't bad, but there's a bit too much special attack investment for me here when dazzling gleam is a non stab move. 

you could go double goggles if you want for more into amoonguss, other items that can see usage are mental herb to shake off a taunt/encore, or even covert cloak to block a fake out. people have run tera dark on it, to stop prankster taunt or being OHKOd by chi-yu, but I don't think it's that good, since you are still weak to flutter mane's moonblast

this spread dies to specs chi yu as I mentioned above, so you could adapt it to a more defensive spread like the sample set (which I think is still good). 

```Cresselia @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 132 Def / 136 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
Tera Type: Dark
Sassy Nature
- Psychic/Ice Beam
- Lunar Blessing
- Trick Room
- Protect/Helping Hand/Ice Beam```

if you want your cress to be more offensive, you can drop the defense stat here and put it in special attack, which gives you a solid chance to OHKO landorus-t before any tera 

your team definitely has trouble with either variant of landorus, but especially the incarnate variant where I would probably just start clicking earth power or sandsear into anything currently on the field

yes!

I like your team

but there are some simple changes you can make that I just explained the reasonings for

[cyan patio]

K got will do

[unborn marten]

let me know if you have any questions

[cyan patio]

What should i do for flutter sry for late response had to bake

[polar lotus]

Huh

I never saw anyone use kyruem black in DOU

[peak crypt]

I mean it was only legal for like a week and a half anyway

it is in fact That Busted

[abstract coral]

https://pokepast.es/ad0170399869e48c

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[abstract coral]

Hard trick room team

Not much else to say, have some very odd picks but i like em

[peak crypt]

Supercell Slam is just worse than Wild Charge

Instead of taking 20% of your HP when you hit, you take 50% when your opponent clicks Protect

or you just miss

[abstract coral]

Thats all i need to hear, ive been getting pounded by ground switch ins

[peak crypt]

Some of these sets are also otherwise not very good

Hands probably wants Assault Vest more than Booster Energy, the Kingambit has Iron Defense

[abstract coral]

AH right, i misclicked iron defense, thats head for stab

I tried vest but they just intimidate it to oblivion

Ill try again

[peak crypt]

Honestly you really still want Fake Out and Sucker Punch on Hands and Kingambit

I know it’s Psychic Terrain but those moves are just so good

And in a format with Rillaboom and Chien-Pao you can’t always assume you will have Psychic Terrain up anyway

[abstract coral]

What coverage would be best to lose for it?

[peak crypt]

Fake Out will help you safely set Trick Room and Sucker Punch is just a good move

Zen Headbutt

You need Brick Break for Incineroar

[abstract coral]

I see, for hands?

[peak crypt]

I would drop Ice Punch because this team seems fine into Lando-T and you always need a move on Hands that kills Flutter

[abstract coral]

Alright then, i barely got to use it other than said landorus, so thats ok

[peak crypt]

I don’t think you’re realistically getting screens off with Carbink

Competent opponents will see level 1 and go “I need to kill this”

I didn’t know it got Endeavor though, neat

[abstract coral]

Trick room setter plus sturdy endeavor

Honestly has saved me from so many damn torkoal that its usually mvp

[peak crypt]

I think instead of screens you just want like

[abstract coral]

What would i replace the screens with? I feel protect is needed, but what would the other move be

[peak crypt]

Protect and Helping Hand

[abstract coral]

Ah, cool

[peak crypt]

Protect is also probably worth replacing something with on Hoopa and maybe Hatterene

Probably Focus Blast

That move is terrible

[abstract coral]

I havent been using mystical fire on hat, she could use the protect

[peak crypt]

Good slot to replace then

[abstract coral]

Though usually i fake them out on the final trick room turn by double trick rooming. Most people protect and now trick room reset

[peak crypt]

A lot of good players are also familiar with that play

[abstract coral]

Its risky but its why i have 4 trick room mones before replacing a move on hoopa

Actually nvm, i still have it on this versiom

Oh well, stab coverage seems enough but is walled by darks so easily

Final thing, is the DeeDee ok?

[peak crypt]

It’s fine

I would go Tera Fairy instead

Also max SpDef on the Hands and not HP

Iron Hands has such high HP that you don’t get much return on your investment

vs your super low SpDef

Beyond all that there isn’t really a ton you can do to improve the team because fullroom is inherently flawed

[abstract coral]

I see, alright, will take note

Thxs

[peak crypt]

Like removing the Bink would probably be an upgrade but I don’t have it in my heart to tell you to remove that

I miss Aron just a little

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

is this vgc, we don't do vgc here

[abstract ember]

mb wrong thing

[kindred dew]

https://pokepast.es/da4855ea14e1358c I have no idea how to doubles but I want to get into it. How is this team?

[torpid moat]

seems pretty reasonable, though electro shot arch is only usable on rain teams

try using av arch instead, with body press and heavy slam or flash cannon

[kindred dew]

ty for the advice but would this team work better as a rain team?

[rose juniper]

I wouldn't say so, you can ofcourse if you want to

But if you want to make it into a good rain team you would need to change quite a bit which would make it closer to a whole new team

But if you like rain, go for it

[vernal mulch]

https://pokepast.es/8e57114c3b8aded7
is this a good team?

I'm kinda new to doubles so

I dunno what's the stuff here

[slow pike]

im not a rater but just wanna let you know messed up the link there

[vernal mulch]

https://pokepast.es/8e57114c3b8aded7

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torpid moat]

hatt really sucks, it's just too frail, and your team isn't made well for trick room anyways

also iron crown is just better than valiant as an eforce user

if you're gonna use indeede/deo/iron crown, then you need reliability from the other slots

chi yu and whims are okay, but the closest you'll get to fixing other issues would ve be running your own lando t

[vernal mulch]

could you give me a set for those? I don't know what I should use for them generally

and also what changes should I make besides those?

do I replace hatt for torkoal?

[torpid moat]

iron crown runs booster energy(speed) with tachyon cutter/expanding force/calm mind/protect

lando t can run sitrus berry with stomping tantrum/stone edge/stealth rock/u turn

you should not cut hatt for torkoal, torkoal would also make the team more unbalanced and only really shines in trick room, which cutting hatt is meant to move away from

[shell arrow]

https://pokepast.es/f21b614d64b58622

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[shell arrow]

Wanted to use Lando-I since i think it checks many of the new mons like Iron Crown, Archaludon, Gouging Fire, Raging Bolt

[unborn marten]

I would change lando-i's tera to poison, it gives a huge damage boost to sludge bomb as well as removing weaknesses, it's pretty standard.

politoed and or pelipper are generally pretty bad mons, you have rain dance on torn which works already. I don't particularly like using them because they can just end up being dead weight

on a structure like this, you may want to replace it with something like specs gholdengo, which offers some more immediate damage into a threat like flutter mane /opposing weather (snow) and also benefits from both tailwind and rain support generally
the torn set definitely wants to be bleakwind storm or air slash, I think hurricane is pretty bad as a single target flying move, bleakwind puts more damage on the board in general

farig set is fine, you may want to consider something like tera fairy to patch up your weakness to things like roaring moon, kingambit, etc.

for rilla, you can really only afford one of u-turn or brick break as you most certainly want to have grassy glide, I'm partial to u-turn here but keeping one of them is ok based on your preference. you already have a good way to hit something like kingambit that would otherwise get hit with brick break in landorus's ground coverage

I don't really like palafin in general, you could consider replacing it with an ogerpon wellspring, however you're kind of stacking flying weaknesses at this point, though I think it will perform better on this team as you can kind of do grass spam stuff with it like giving it grassy glide or power whip and have a more immediate offensive presence instead of always being on the back foot with having to switch palafin out to activate it

[shell arrow]

Thanks. im quite surprised to hear that both toed and pelipper are inferior to torn as a rain setter. But if im gonna use manual rain, then wouldn't it be more beneficial to just manually set gravity instead of rain for lando-i? Isn't manual rain quite inefficient since more set up is required

[unborn marten]

nah, rain is definitely more synergistic w this build due to having grass mons + the suggested steel

[shell arrow]

aight thanks

[unborn marten]

nw

[torpid moat]

you're definitely allowed to have peli on rain

depends how much you wanna commit

but yeah just manual is fine too

[shell arrow]

tbh I think that Politoed > Pelipper on rain teams since pelipper is pretty slow to be a threatening attacker, often gets taunted by faster mons and so cannot reliably set up tailwind etc. Politoed at least has helping hand to make it less of a deadweight.

[peak crypt]

Pelipper also learns Helping Hand

[unborn marten]

wide guard is also cool

[shell arrow]

Bird with no hands learns helping hand smh

[versed heart]

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 50
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 76 HP / 4 Def / 36 SpA / 156 SpD / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Sludge Bomb
• Earth Power
• Psychic
• Protect

Incineroar @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 236 HP / 20 Atk / 60 Def / 60 SpD / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Flare Blitz
• Knock Off
• Parting Shot
• Fake Out

Iron Bundle @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 196 SpA / 196 SpD / 108 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Freeze-Dry
• Hydro Pump
• Icy Wind
• Protect

Ninetales-Alola @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 60 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 188 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Aurora Veil
• Blizzard
• Dazzling Gleam
• Protect

Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 12 HP / 164 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Moonblast
• Dazzling Gleam
• Shadow Ball
• Thunderbolt

Ogerpon (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Defiant
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 68 HP / 116 Atk / 124 Def / 28 SpD / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Follow Me
• Spiky Shield
• Power Whip
• Superpower

Thoughts, Opinions, Questions, Concerns?

[tight spire]

these are Level 50s, this channel is for Doubles OverUsed where Pokemon are level 100

not VGC

[opaque cave]

What raging bolt sets are you guys running?

Just curious if Mine is somewhat unique

Wrong channel sorry

[indigo thicket]

https://pokepast.es/72c5589acf55dc5b im not too sure about the ninetails or glaceon, but im not sure what else would be able to round uot the team. i know that special attacking flamigo is bad but i like the element of suprise it brings alongside contrary hydrapple. torracat is for the utility that incineroar would usually have but its banned in uu so i had to make do. ive not got a clue on what terras to use

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

mkay lets see what we can salvage

[brittle spade]

try this : https://pokepast.es/84794fca6b121ed9

[indigo thicket]

i think you've missed the aim with malamar. the plan with it was to skill swap contrary to hydrapple to get around the downside of draco meteor and leaf storm

[torpid moat]

tfw got rid of contrary skill swap

it isn't very good btw but

if that's what you're building around then you can keep it on malamar

also make sure your malamar is slower than hydrapple

[indigo thicket]

why slower?

would it not be better to swap then trick room?

oh wait trick room is neg priority

[torpid moat]

no, trick room first is better

setting tr is far more important anyways

and setting tr also makes it easier to execute skill swap safely

you should be leading malamar with incin more often anyways

[indigo thicket]

well, incin at home

[torpid moat]

and give malamar ghost tera

[brittle spade]

honestly you can put it back over protect

[torpid moat]

for fake out immunity

[brittle spade]

just put covert cloak over sitrus

yellow paint is right i forgot to look at the speed

[torpid moat]

but yeah just take ratpacker's version with fixed speed and keep skill swap

is prob the best this gimmick will get

[indigo thicket]

another thing ive seeny ouve changed is regenerator over syrup ability

[brittle spade]

regen works very well with screens

[torpid moat]

regen is way better

syrup effectively does nothing

[brittle spade]

and pollen puff works great with torracat and av kyurem

[torpid moat]

well, not nothing but it's quite mediocre

[brittle spade]

much more survivability

[torpid moat]

and yeah regenvest hydrapple is much more flexible

[indigo thicket]

is the evasion boost from a skill swap on opponents team not worth anything?

[torpid moat]

it's actually a legitimate mon on its own

it requires you to spend an extra turn skill swapping

so no

[brittle spade]

if you pull that off you can take a screen shot

and then forfeit because you probably lost that game

[torpid moat]

well I'm sure they can pull it off against bad opps

but yeah if your opponent is competent your hydrapple will not be alive to survive ~3 turns of you doing almost nothing

[indigo thicket]

while malamars doing its thing tho its firing of increasingly stronger leaf storms and draco meteors

[torpid moat]

so like I said

you will not be able to safely lead malamar + hydrapple against a competent opponent most of the time

at the very least you will need fake out from torra to not get malamar disrupted or killed

so 1 turn fake out +tr

turn 2 switch + skill swap

turn 3 skill swap again

[brittle spade]

yeah, the teams and advice we give you in this channel are made to work against stuff you'll fight when you reach 1400

[torpid moat]

would be the only case where supersweet does anything

[brittle spade]

on dUU ladder

[torpid moat]

having just regenerator, an excellent ability in many other cases

is way more valuable

[crude oracle]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2025381112 so this is my match i just had with this idk why i have trevenant besides the fact he a cool dude, is there any improvements i wanna make on the team? ignore trevenant

https://pokepast.es/b82350130de18a2c

[peak crypt]

This channel is for Doubles OU, try the OU channel instead

[crude oracle]

ado i forgot fully mb homie

[fickle owl]

https://pokepast.es/3d1a6aeb7598f144

feedback is appreciated. Will note down changes and will test.

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

If you drop a couple spatk evs you get the speed protosynthesis boost on walking wake, which is good with specs

You need to get rid of the clodsire

If you really want skeledirge it can stay

Overall you're missing some of the best Pokemon in sun, namely flutter mane, chiyu and gouging fire

If you want to build a sun team, try torkoal, after you lilligant, diancie, flutter mane, walking wake and gouging fire/skeledirge

[peak crypt]

The sets you have could use some work too

Whimsicott likes having an attack, Chien-Pao really needs Protect, IDBP Torkoal kind of stinks

You also have no other physical attackers to pair with Chien-Pao

Beyond that I agree with ratpacker that Clodside and Skeledirge don’t fit the team

Doubles doesn’t use walls in the traditional sense because they tend to stand in the way of your own progress

And not a lot of things are truly tanky when they have to survive two hits in a single turn

[fickle owl]

thanks for the feedback, I'll test some of the suggestions. Thanks for pointing out the spatk evs, good to note that getting the speed increase is just a better option

[fickle owl]

also thanks for this advice. I'm fairly new to competitive and it's good to learn something about the pacing of doubles

[scarlet nexus]

https://pokepast.es/f425206c54661de1 this is my current team i play with the only thing i need changing is my volcarona idk how to describe it it just dont fit the team any idea for a replacement pokemon

if anyone can help pls lmk

[peak crypt]

this entire team is legal in Doubles UU and I would suggest you play it there rather than Doubles OU

you will probably win more games

[scarlet nexus]

im 1400 in DOU

plus dragapult

mb

[peak crypt]

Dragapult is a DUU mon

[scarlet nexus]

nvm

even then i still need to replace volca

[peak crypt]

I'm going to be completely honest with you: I can only assume you are either an incredible player choosing to play bad Pokemon, you are sending money to your opponents on Paypal, or you've just run into a bunch of players who don't know how to handle Wo-Chien, because this team looks terrible

you have Choice Band on a Pokemon with 100 base Attack and no moves with more than 85 power

[scarlet nexus]

ill have yk drain punch does 70% to archaludon he hits like a truck

does 15%rillaboom while at -5

[peak crypt]

252+ Atk Choice Band Regirock Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 180-212 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

are you sure about that?

[scarlet nexus]

i have done it b4 so may have ran sum goofy set i was in 1200 rating lobbys

[peak crypt]

even no-HP Archaludon can't take 70

[scarlet nexus]

ok i can replace drain punch w hammer arm aswell

[scarlet nexus]

idk then i just know i have done it

[peak crypt]

before we explain anything

I want you to explain this team to me

I need you to justify everything you've included

like... why is there a Weezing alongside Wo-Chien, one of the most ability-reliant Pokemon in the game?

How did you come to the conclusion that Regirock is a good Choice Band user?

why is the Scream Tail using Noble Roar instead of stronger moves like Encore, or Disable, or Thunder Wave?

[scarlet nexus]

ok weezing no one i go against deals w wether they try and fail or just ignore it so he just blocks things like tailwind sun rain and a shit and a ton more and i dont play it w wo-chien ever i aint dumb and lets say im in a position its forced i make sure im setup b4 even thinking about bringing in weezing

regirock is an absolute wall that also hits like a truck

and noble roar is to stop sweepers like gouging fire

any sweeper poke

and also they get encored or diabled they gonna swap which i dont want

[peak crypt]

they are going to switch out if you click Noble Roar too

[scarlet nexus]

not to often

im only 1400

im just trying to get a setup sweeper poke that i can switch in to

i can nvr get volc in

[gilded tide]

https://pokepast.es/a71c96b31f682a67 new to teambuilding ... my current elo is around 1350

[scarlet nexus]

u need easier methods of switching

[tardy bear]

Team looks like it can switch pretty well

[remote edge]

looks mostly fine to me

honestly the only thing i'd suggest is waterpon over pala and like torn over amoong if you do that

could also try icy wind flutter and specs chi-yu @gilded tide

[remote edge]

and also this is inaccurate, the team has a solid defensive backbone as is

so it doesn't need easier methods of switching

[gilded tide]

thanks for your sugestions 🙂

[gilded tide]

https://pokepast.es/90820e8463b6e680 i switched out pala and amogus but i decided to keep the moves on flutter and the item of chi-yu so this is what is looks like now. do the details for torn and pon look good, respectively?

[remote edge]

i'd go horn leech on oger, I really like super bulky torn but its preference

have you considered specs flutter or n

if not its fine just wondering

[gilded tide]

i have thought about it but given the prevalence of the ancient legendary dogs and incineroar it's been pretty useful to be able to switch between dazzling gleam and moonblast without having to switch flutter out depending on whether or not both of them are on the field

at least that seems to be what's prevalent at this elo lol

[remote edge]

fair

if you want to switch moves but want more damage fairy feather is an option

(or SpA booster but you lose a LOT of speed)

[gilded tide]

yeah ... and also i would need to have a sun setter in order to activate proto

which would require more changes unless i just sac the benefits of the ability entirely

[remote edge]

you don't necessarily need proto

imo

its nice but not necessary

[gilded tide]

yeah that's true

makes me think about all the times i never take advantage of hands' quark drive lmao

[faint yarrow]

https://pokepast.es/0067290a85715cc0

i like the idea of kingdra sweeping with crits, but im kinda bad at building teams. Can i have some feedback and ideas for a final member/roster changes?

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[opaque cave]

https://pokepast.es/f718362c521de5c0
any ideas what i could change or any crucial mistakes?

[opaque cave]

why are you 252 atk and 252 spa on monkey

[faint yarrow]

fake out do mroe dmg

[unborn marten]

kingdra should drop hydro for muddy water, and ice beam for protect.
you lack speed control on this team, so you should be using tornadus, the cloak set with tailwind taunt bleakwind and either rain dance to boost kingdra's muddy water or protect.
your archuladon set is completely walled by flutter mane, and does not tera into a type that deals with it appropriately. consider tera steel/fire for a proper fairy resist, and drop dragon tail for flash cannon or heavy slam.
munkidoris primary purpose is not fake out, drop the attack for speed, consider a setup move or protect on munki over shadow ball. i think sash is pretty bad, you could consider life orb or another boosting item of some kind, also drop sludge wave for sludge bomb, there is bad anti synergy on your team for sludge wave
you have a lot of setup stuff already so id just rec protect here, and change tera type
you need grassy glide on your rilla, drop either u turn or brick break, your preference

[unborn marten]

https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059704283072831499 this is a vgc team and belongs in vgc rates! sorry about that

ursh is not legal in DOU

[opaque cave]

oh yea mb

[polar lotus]

how does my rain team hold up now that the dlc is out? (I am late to this)

https://pokepast.es/e242f67893c5834c

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

honestly I'd probably just straight up drop all of Basc-F, Iron Hands, and Farigiraf

I think with the way the meta has developed, Swift Swim is straight up just not worth having

none of the Pokemon that have it are really good enough to bother using

not when you could be using stuff like Lando-I and Archaludon on your rain team

[polar lotus]

ooo why

[peak crypt]

Lando-I can't miss Sandsear Storm in rain and Archaludon can use Electro Shot without the charge turn

[torpid moat]

also your current team instaloses to opposing archaludon, having lando i is a way for rain to kill that and similar mons

[polar lotus]

what about the 6th member?

[torpid moat]

and with poison tera sludge bomb it kills rilla too

prob just your own flutter

though there are other options like kingambit or a torn

[polar lotus]

how does the team look now?
https://pokepast.es/2b6a6bf024552324

[polar lotus]

also should I change the sets on the other pokemon?

[peak crypt]

I'd probably just go max Attack on Rilla to get bigger Grassy Glides, but beyond that, the original three are fine

[polar lotus]

alright, how does the team look? I sent the pokepaste link you can look

[peak crypt]

Duraludon usually puts a ton of EVs into Special Defense rather than Special Attack

you focus more on becoming a giant ball of stats rather than going for immediate damage

[polar lotus]

oo ok, is that all?

[peak crypt]

Archaludon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Flying / Grass
EVs: 228 HP / 28 Def / 16 SpA / 236 SpD
Modest Nature

yoinked this from the C&C team's spreadsheet

this spread survives an Earth Power from Lando-I

[balmy iris]

https://pokepast.es/a96c139f4caa8914

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[spare mirage]

https://pokepast.es/062946dd40fc0346

Can you guys rate this?

[peak crypt]

The Ursaluna feels really out of place here; Ursaluna usually requires Trick Room support and a little extra push from either Cresselia or a Follow Me user to succeed, because it just isn’t fast enough under Tailwind. Trailblaze doesn’t really help all that much and just means you’re spending a turn dealing pretty low damage instead of clicking your nuclear Facade. No Spiky Shield on Ogerpon isn’t really the play either. What are you looking to get out of the Ursaluna slot?

[peak crypt]

Dancer is simply a bad strategy, Ursaluna without Trick Room is pretty mediocre (to sum up what I said to the last person), and all of the non-Dancer sets need improvements - especially Whimsicott, who seemingly only exists to be annoying and cannot deal any actual damage to anything

[balmy iris]

I dont know

[spare mirage]

True

(i use this as a gimmick set to do 3 stage spa on flutter)

Its funny

[peak crypt]

It’s funny but everybody above 1200 knows what Oricorio does and won’t let you win the game anyway

[spare mirage]

https://pokepast.es/988f75dd95c68b5a

How about this one? I purposely made a bit flawed cuz im too lazy to actually win games and be hated by everyone i see

I love pikachu

Also yeah i saw someone using lando on rain team and it looks nice

[peak crypt]

Like I mentioned to someone last night, I honestly don’t think any Swift Swim mons are worth using right now

They just don’t meet the power level standard of the format

[spare mirage]

Aww

[peak crypt]

Pikachu bought me drinks at NAIC 2019 so I cannot remove him in good conscience

You should definitely have different moves on Bolt though

[spare mirage]

Yeay!?

Oh what should the move be

[peak crypt]

Electroweb’s fine, cute idea actually, but both of your other moves just get slurped up by your own Pikachu

I’d probably go Thunderclap + Draco Meteor instead of Thunder + Volt Switch

And make sure it’s Modest not Mild

[spare mirage]

Alright

[peak crypt]

As far as the two Swift Swim slots go

Archaludon is The Guy Who Brought Rain Back, so that would be a strong include

It adds a lot of defensive ability and can turn into a big ball of stats pretty quick

however

this team is in dire need of a Fairy resist and it probably needs to do so without stacking too many Ground weaknesses

so Volcanion will probably fill the role of “big bulky idiot” a little better

[spare mirage]

Hmm i guess volcanion does work

[peak crypt]

And then probably something like Rillaboom last slot

Very good into Psychic spam and just an all-around solid Pokémon

But if you want to keep some of the speed the old team had, you could try running Chien-Pao instead and making Pikachu physical

Volt Tackle with Sword of Ruin probably hurts like hell

[spare mirage]

What if i ran special pikachu?

[peak crypt]

You already are

[spare mirage]

Ok

So i should replace ludi and bascu?

[balmy iris]

ok i changed ursaluna to archaludon

https://pokepast.es/f3d0a1e5dff94dbc

[vast patio]

Would love for someone to look over my team centered on fluttermane: https://pokepast.es/35b732b76f9c758d
this is the first team I have built by myself as I usually rotate through rental teams 🙂

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

is this for DOU or for the ingame ladder?

it's a strong first try either way, but you can get better help over in VGC Rates if it's for ingame

since I see in the description you want the Master Rank ribbon

@vast patio

[unborn marten]

there are good ways to improve this either way tho

but yea

[vast patio]

yeah, but i wanna continue comp after my goal of the ribbon

ingame ladder btw

[peak crypt]

yeah, I would go to the VGC Rates channel then

[vast patio]

ok thx

[spare mirage]

https://pokepast.es/f97649183fb9e426

Revamped my dance setup team

Still dont know what to replace ursaluna with

[unborn marten]

a couple things:
you probably want something other than wisp on volcarona, wisp is really not what this set wants to be doing. you want to hit things, so pick bug buzz or a coverage move
rest talk flutter is like, not a thing at all, just give it moonblast/tect and it will do what flutter mane does

can change the evs to be something like 120 hp 120 def 252 speed dump spa, or like 0 hp 156 def, this flutter mane spread is not ideal

indeedee isn't a screener, mental herb can be used on it but that's to guarantee trick room

if you want screens, there are better options, like grimmsnarl or even klefki, but indeedee isn't it

your chi-yu is vest with nasty plot and protect, so you only have two moves, and chi-yu always wants heat wave

I don't know what you want to do with the bear set but facade + hhp/headlong + coverage/swords dance + protect is standard , and don't use toxic orb. flame orb is strictly better

invest chi's bulk on the special side into HP instead, it's much more efficent, and you definitely want some kind of speed for this, could even be a scarf set with heat wave + overheat/flamethrower + dark pulse + snarl

notably your team has no speed control whatsoever also

I give 10/10 to the nicknames tho

you probably also want to change some tera types here, they're all default

tera dragon is cool on volcarona
fairy is good on indeedee

normal is often selected on bear to remove grass weakness

[spare mirage]

Thats alotta words

Too bad im only gonna read half of it

[peak crypt]

now read the other half

[golden solstice]

https://pokepast.es/24bd1a33da31cc75

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[golden solstice]

ik this team has flaws but idk where to make the changes

[peak crypt]

the primary flaws are you're just not using good Pokemon

none of Tauros, Meowstic, Weezing, and Gyarados are particularly good in DOU

and the sets on Amoonguss and Landorus could use a tune-up too - Lando doesn't really run physical moves at all because it's better off just clicking Earth Power and a coverage move, and Amoonguss typically just doesn't run Synthesis because it can heal with Regenerator

@golden solstice

[golden solstice]

Im using skill swap on meowstic so ammongus can get priority spores

[peak crypt]

Amoonguss doesn't need Prankster to be a good Pokemon

and that doesn't change the fact that you're still running four below-average Pokemon

[valid mist]

https://pokepast.es/28dfd3a86370cb72
Hii I really want to make a team for doubles OU around Mimikyu
I'm very new to teambuilding but I came up with this

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

Quad Dark is pretty awkward in Flutter meta

Especially without any Fairy resists to back it up

Have you played any games with the team so far?

[valid mist]

yeah
has worked pretty well shockingly but I'm afraid of not having speed control cause I feel at a disadvantage whenever a trick room or tailwind shows up

I've considered swapping out grimm for whimsicott but his screens have been very useful

idk I just want to make a functional mimikyu team LOL

what would you recommend?

[torpid moat]

give mimikyu clear amulet over life orb, protect over phantom force

sinistcha can run trick room over shadow ball or protect

and give it sitrus berry

grimm can probably just be a flutter mane of your own

or like a lando i

alternatively you can cut the pao

running trick room mimikyu itself is also an option

that's probably its best niche tbh

as a trick room setter rather than a setup attacker

[valid mist]

yeah I was considering that too

[valid mist]

phantom force for whatever reason has been working really well with my mimikyu
since it makes it invulnerable for one turn and confirms a hit on its second turn because it breaks protect

but if I run it as a trick roomer it would make sense to switch it

[valid mist]

what should I use ?
idk what the best trick room mons are rn

[trail iron]

Cresselia is a good trick room option

Or indedee

[valid mist]

and mons that benefit from trick room?

[trail iron]

Torkoal or ursaluna

Ursaluna paired with cress

[valid mist]

does clear amulet protect you from burn's effect?

[torpid moat]

no, just intimidate mainly

and parting shot etc

but yeah mimik sinistcha gambit incin is a very reasonable tr core

you can pad it out with stuff like waterpon or lando i or t or whatever

you don't have to fully commit to trick room

calm mind raging bolt could be cute there

your own flutter or rilla wouldn't be incorrect either

[valid mist]

yeah mimi sinistcha has been working really well + incin

what exactly is waterpon's role? I'm still learning the sv meta

[valid mist]

https://pokepast.es/3713e7eaad20649b
this is what I came up with

wait I changed sludge bomb for chilling water and changed incin's tera to water

[spare mirage]

https://pokepast.es/d840b203eebf4b1b

Rain team again

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tight spire]

if I was running pikachu I'd honestly just do a FEAR set

[spare mirage]

Ooh whats that

[tight spire]

Focus Sash endeavor sets

Pikachu could actually do it decently in older generations but it has since lost fake out

Problem with Pikachu is that it is too slow for it's bulk compared to modern power creep and light ball really doesn't make pika all that more powerful than like Kyurem

So best thing u can do is to do level 1 endeavor Sash quick attack

[unborn marten]

i will repeat:
sludge wave is very bad due to hitting your own teammates
both mons you are using it on have access to sludge bomb, so use that instead

new stuff:
I would not use pikachu for many reasons, however here it is especially bad due to absorbing your own electric attacks of which you have many
consider switching damp rock to eject button on peli, you can get more value out of activating rain and pivoting with it than damp rock imo
if you do, drop u-turn for hydro pump
body press compliments archuladon much more with stamina than aura sphere

I would consider dropping electroweb for thunder or calm mind, if you go calm mind you can make it dragon pulse so it can stay on field longer

[spare mirage]

Ok cool

But im biased about the pikachu

[urban summit]

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 390-462 (98.9 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

https://tenor.com/view/monsters-vs-aliens-i-may-not-have-a-brain-gentlemen-but-i-have-an-idea-jelly-i-may-not-have-a-brain-i-have-an-idea-gif-16097667901967257851

252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 240 HP / 132 Def Cresselia: 542-638 (122.9 - 144.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

btw

[unborn marten]

use what fangame suggested then, I think pikachu should also have fake out over something like trailblaze

[torpid moat]

waterpon is an attacker that carries follow me, please use it over toxapex

pex does nothing and will be completely ignored

if you really really want hazards you would use glimmora or kleavor

pex is always really bad in doubles because it has no offensive presence or proactive utility like speed control or follow me

[icy plover]

What should I add/change for this team?https://pokepast.es/435e3395b022ba1b

[urban summit]

1. Lv 75? uhhh no…
2. torrent primerina uhh with hypervoice uhhh… you probably forgot
3. i don‘t think you want power whip on pon
4. i think max speed timid serves you well on pon since there are so many base 110 speed mons wich you could at least try to tie
5. i don‘t really see what your team is trying to do like yea it might be fine but you got no setup and shit to make use of friend guard clefairy
6. electro shot on arch is not really good on an av set with no rain
7. 60hp 4spd 4def is not that good of a defensive spread (or am i wrong?)
8. no speed control (might be fine in practice but you will get rolled by a good Opponent)
   this does not take into account your mon choices really so you might want to get somebody else to look on that

.

https://pokepast.es/af30f1c63ed96ea4

[valid mist]

ohhh important

tho isn't waterpon too fast for something like trick room?

[torpid moat]

you're allowed to use faster mons like flutter mane and waterpon on tr

tr will not be up 100% of the time, and if your team absolutely requires it to be up, your opponent can exploit that

[valid mist]

ohhh

interesting

[lethal bough]

https://pokepast.es/78ead8c249c93136

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt, @unborn marten. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lethal bough]

its an experiment

[peak crypt]

core concept is solid but the details need some work

Bronzong sucks

like

sucks

Trick Room teams generally don't use screens because they take up important time you need to actually win the game in TR

if you're looking for a third bulky TR setter, Diancie is definitely your strongest option

the rest of the Pokemon are decent choices, though Lurantis is a bit out of place

but let's work with the Lurantis now and just clean up some sets:

Lurantis really likes fighting against stuff like Incineroar and Lando-T because Intimidate will boost its Attack, so you probably just want Leaf Storm, and max HP max Attack Brave

Indeedee doesn't want any Speed at all because the move Trick Room always goes last; the default spread for Indeedee is max HP / 240 Def / 16 SpD Sassy, but if you want more physical Defense you can just run max Defense Relaxed instead

Armarouge wants Protect instead of Flamethrower and probably Life Orb, and swap to Quiet nature - the extra bulk doesn't matter as much as the extra Attack

if you're using Specs Torkoal you should be running max HP and Quiet rather than max Special Defense, and you probably want Solar Beam rather than Protect (Protect and Choice items don't work well together)

for Diancie you should use the set listed here: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/diancie/doubles/

and Amoonguss too: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/amoonguss/doubles/

make sure all of your Pokemon have a 0 IV in Speed to ensure they're more likely to go first under Trick Room

@lethal bough

[lethal bough]

yes

sorry

[peak crypt]

try out these changes and see how things go, and if the team still needs more work then come back and we can work on it some more