Smogon Doubles Rates

[jagged needle]

before it was hands

[tight spire]

but that's specifically for indeedee-arma

[jagged needle]

might swap chien to palafin or oger

[tight spire]

I think chi-yu would be better for that combo

[grizzled pumice]

Chi yu for me fits extremely well

[jagged needle]

i mean

[tight spire]

snarl AV is great

[jagged needle]

its when i dont want indeedee arma

i run chien diancie

[tight spire]

but I feel like that's relying too much on Diancie doing more damage

[jagged needle]

true

[tight spire]

Diancie is kinda like

[jagged needle]

that last game sucked

burn and trick

[tight spire]

you want it to be more of an annoying chip mon

in the background

it can do crazy sweeps

but generally, survivability is one of Diancie's strongest points

[jagged needle]

true

maybe start chien amoonguss or chien indeedee

[grizzled pumice]

https://pokepast.es/c0a05ab541bcd677 this is my team indee arma are rarely my openner

[jagged needle]

indeedee stops priority so maybe

[tight spire]

amoong is strong but I think you can experiment without it

this meta is unkind to it atm

[jagged needle]

man it sweeps nicely

well

supports sweeps

[grizzled pumice]

I used to like diancie but having torkoal diamcie was leaning too heavy into tr so if it's gets stalled or canceled I'm screwed

[jagged needle]

i might do torkoal

idk ive had a very bad problem with diancie

[tight spire]

It becomes harder to sweep with diancie against better players

[jagged needle]

and its

whenever i TR with diancie, always ohkoed by waterfall

or hydro pump

[tight spire]

Waterfall is probably something that shouldnt be hitting you

Cus that implies they are using

Gyarados

[jagged needle]

barraskewda before trick room

[grizzled pumice]

Getting them to throw out barra before it's got time for swift swim and for last respects is awesome

You should capitalize on that

[jagged needle]

you seem to forget

[tight spire]

I would say maybe you wanna increase water resists also and not just amoong

[jagged needle]

this is low ladder

theyre not using hound

[jagged needle]

hence im switching chien

[tight spire]

Yeh but any team built for high level play should crush low ladder anyways

[jagged needle]

the point is that

what he said doesnt apply

[grizzled pumice]

If you can't climb low because they don't play optimal, then you can't capitalize on game winning mistakes by players who always play optimaly

It's not tje mon

It's how to use it

If it'll work in high ladder no reason for it jot to do so in low

[jagged needle]

true

but like

im asking a question and its that

should i switch oger in for chien

[tight spire]

that could work

also, you don't have to try this rn or anything, but I think you could also look into Iron Hands over Ursaluna

[jagged needle]

no

hands was clunky

[tight spire]

Iron Hands works really well outside TR

ic ic

[jagged needle]

and sucked because it was always my last mon

[grizzled pumice]

Iron isn't good here cause it doesn't pair with anything

[jagged needle]

or it was sacced from a ground or a psychic attack

[grizzled pumice]

Clunky lunky

[tight spire]

I was thinking maybe like

psychic-seed hands

with indeedee

that is a good combo

[grizzled pumice]

It's not a good tr sweeper tho

[tight spire]

it has a swords dance set?

[jagged needle]

theres

assault vest

[tight spire]

AV is fine

but if you want the sweep in TR set you could do either sitrus or psychic seed SD

[jagged needle]

runs protect with hands in case of trick

[tight spire]

we've had those kinds of hands sets used in past high level play

iirc DPL had a few

[grizzled pumice]

The problem with the sweeper hands in this team specifically is it'll eat indee's tr so arma is useless mater

And if arma uses it hands is useless

U wanna make sure every mon can pair with each one in a 6man team

In 4 man's it'll work

[jagged needle]

ok i gtg

[grizzled pumice]

But 6 mons is a big diff

[jagged needle]

or

[grizzled pumice]

I'll try ur team tonoght

And see how it goes

[jagged needle]

waht i usually do

tr arma and follow indeedee

[tight spire]

here you can look at my semi-room snow if you want

your team is full tr mostly so it may not be comparable

but if you just wanna see some of my sets

https://pokepast.es/299ec094c807e7ad

[jagged needle]

snow TR setup

i could do sun TR

[tight spire]

thats common and may work

I think you could use

liligant

with a sun ver

[jagged needle]

i would try out acovillain on that just to test but

its too fast

[tight spire]

I don't recommend acovillain as a grass

[jagged needle]

acovillain would function as a fire

acovillain is best on non TR teams tho because of chlorophyll

[tight spire]

if you're doing sun you should already have torkoal and a 2nd fire type on it would be like

Armarouge, Chi yu

[jagged needle]

i know this

[tight spire]

Liligant is just so much better for sun generally

[polar lotus]

https://pokepast.es/1b67a9b4bb49a9db IDK I guess I wanna see how u guys think of this

[grizzled pumice]

Looks good. Gay bowser seems it would be a lil put of place but I can def see it working well.

[grizzled pumice]

I'd make tornadus an attacker instead of bulky

He's not gonna survive too long anyway once he gets his stuff off

[polar lotus]

Tbf Air Island is meant to be a support

[peak crypt]

physical Kommo-o is almost always full bulky with Drain Punch and Fire Punch

and Clear Amulet

if you're running no bulk you generally want to be using special Kommo-o instead

[grizzled pumice]

Yea but it's not great support. If uts bulky it deals no damage so the enemy will likely keep it there since it's not a threat in favor of keeping you from getting a free switch into a better mon

The damage forces them to do something about it.

You don't need to have multiple tailwind, taunt usually shuts down a mon right away, sunny day usually screws over a rain team immediately so you wouldn't need it again and bleakwind is too inaccurate to warrent not running any spA cause of it does hit it'll deal no damage even to things like chi yu or flutter which it usually 2hko

I haven't calculated but I don't think it's even a 2ko with no spA

This is the calc for the bulky vs speed and spa against standard chi and flutter. With all that bulk he still gets 2hko by both and he barely 2hko and nearly always 3hko on a move that's fairly inaccurate.

Pretty much useless a support like this.

This is against the super low defence of these mins to

You're not gonna put a dent into anything

[polar lotus]

@grizzled pumice actually i do remember thinking about giving tornadus knock off instead of sunny day

[grizzled pumice]

That would work well

But you'd probably want to use something else

It would catch people off guard

My tornadus is a bit diff too

It's the standard. But it has eject button so it cab setup sunny day and swap immediately for free

Honestly iron hands looks big here

[peak crypt]

the point of bulky Tornadus isn't to survive for the whole game

it's to survive for just long enough

[grizzled pumice]

Yea but it doesn't really do anything with that moveset.

[peak crypt]

I don't personally like it much (I just like hitting Oger for a bunch of damage too much), but it's honestly what most tournament players use at this point

[grizzled pumice]

I agree I was too focused on the bleakwin

The bulky? Really?

[peak crypt]

yeah

[grizzled pumice]

With what moves

[peak crypt]

same ones

[grizzled pumice]

Honestly I don't see how it's very useful like that

[peak crypt]

part of the logic is Bleakwind isn't a super reliable move

[grizzled pumice]

It doesn't survive for much longer than a sash and doesn't have the ability to dish out damage if it does l8ve

[peak crypt]

it's better than Hurricane, sure, but it has this nasty habit of not hitting the things it needs to

[grizzled pumice]

Knock off tho is a big if true momen

I don't think there's enough rain teams to warrent the sunny day rbh

[peak crypt]

and if you can take a hit with 26% left on the turn you set Tailwind, then switch out, you can still switch back in later on Stealth Rock and set Tailwind again

[grizzled pumice]

Unless you're using the sunny day

[peak crypt]

this is really the most important thing about Tornadus

you click Prankster Tailwind

[grizzled pumice]

True true

[peak crypt]

Sunny Day is more about powering up your Chi-Yu and Flutter than it is about stopping rain

(it also messes with snow)

[grizzled pumice]

I guess I just haven't seen enough to find the usefulness in the bulk

I'm also more of an all out attack kinda guy too

So the bulky kinda messes with my whole thought process.

I mean if they know it's bulky or even if they don't 26 percent is enough to warrant a switch predict

With a different move

That'll be good into a switch

And since it's got no spa you can't even threaten with bleak

[peak crypt]

bulky Torn also does stuff like dodge a 2HKO from Heatran's Heat Wave

which offensive Torn can never do

your goal isn't to take on Specs Flutter Mane

it's to not die to the small hits so you can keep doing your thing

same logic as bulky Thund in older gens

if the stray Rock Slide doesn't just kill you, you get another turn to click your buttons

even if that turn isn't right now

it's also much better against opposing Tornadus and it can reliably switch in on Rillaboom

[grizzled pumice]

I just think it's better as an attacker. The bulk is surprising because the meta settled and a shift with the norm can be good

For certain mons

I've also never used it as anything other than click tailwind press bleak till dead

So yea I guess

[peak crypt]

The first player to lose their Tornadus in the mirror will usually lose the game

Ceding speed control is rough

[crude oracle]

https://pokepast.es/410507b353b125a2 im brand new to showdown and especially doubles but i wouldnt mind feedback on this team, it hasnt done to bad for me

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[grizzled pumice]

That's a very odd team. What's the gameplan usually? It looks like it's just a bunch of offensive mons with murkrow to setup tailwind and sinistcha for the healing a bit.

[crude oracle]

I start out with murkrow and zoroark to mainly try and confuse the enemy ig? then protect murkrow Incase there is a threat then try and setup ribombee as support damage with mewoscarada doing stab+fairy tera play rough to alot

and if I suspect someone trying to use trick on me or sum I tend to use baton pass on ribombee to either go back into murkrow for tailwind setup or sinistcha for healing

[grizzled pumice]

So I already see a problem, heatran just kinda mows through your team. It's resistant to all you moves, and a Tera grass which is normal negates it's ground weakness and you don't have anything else for it.

That's not really the only issue I see but it's a glaring one.

I don't see the use in the assault vests, sure they provide some bulk but they also take power away in the form of not putting damage held items.

Meowscarada benefits greatly from a life orb to hit much harder and you don't need the Tera fairy for it to hut hard enough to kill every threat that play rough needs to hit

A stab play rough with life orb or a choice oneshots grimmsnarl through a reflect still

Tornadus is a better murkrow but if you want it to be bulky eviolite works but in a team like this where your goal is to be hyper aggressive it's better to have a double hitting bleakwind than it is for a bulky setup

I don't like turning every team into a meta slave ones so I'll take another look and reccomend changes specifically for this team

[crude oracle]

I'm not too sure Abt legendaries and their abilities, does tornadus also have prankster?

[grizzled pumice]

Yes and it's faster plus a 110 hit both flying move

It is 75 acc tho

It's a better murkrow basically

[crude oracle]

o

that sounds like my type of thing then

also I'm not too sure Abt any of the tera types I did for the mons

as Im not fully

understanding of the tera thing

so I hope what I did wasn't horrible

[grizzled pumice]

Usually a Tera will be to oneshot a mon or 2hko a mon that normal stab wouldn't do, something like flutter mane Tera to oneshot things out of normal range. Meaning if a play rough ko something already there's no need to Tera Fairy. The other is to get rid of common weakness like heatran grass to get rid of its glaring ground weakness

It keeps its stab on fire lives while providing defensive benefits.

[crude oracle]

okay so if I

tera something into another type

but its original typing is for example ghost

and I do shadow ball

it's still stab?

[grizzled pumice]

Yes

So if you Tera ghost you get DOUBLE stab

[crude oracle]

so is double stab a thing then

o

okay so my idea did work then

for

hisui zoroark

ig

[grizzled pumice]

Yes

[crude oracle]

and how does protean interact

with tera stuff

[grizzled pumice]

If you Tera fairy, while protean turns you fairy you do get double stab.

But because of meow high base attack plus protean turn a single stab is enough to kill any threats it needs to with a single play rough

[crude oracle]

also idk what item I should have done for sinistcha

so is heavy duty boots fine?

it hasn't had much use tho the boots

tbh

[grizzled pumice]

I don't think you need it specifically because it's a heal bot with some offense or a single rage powder so getting chip damage on it isn't a big deal

[crude oracle]

somewhat item on it should I do instead?

also do I do therian thundurus or normal thundurus

nvm normal bc prankster

[grizzled pumice]

I'm tweaking the team rn hold one

[crude oracle]

dw

o wait thundurus doesn't have tailwind tho, my team is kinda based around the tailwind thing

I think

[grizzled pumice]

https://pokepast.es/d3cd65099de8256d so this is what I came up with to keep the teams identity intact.

I swapped sinistcha to leftovers and Tera water so in some cases it can be a great support with rage powder and matcha gotcha because most would use a super against it so water helps it live longer and leftovers is great.

Meowscarada becomes a variety attacker that can ohko or just kock off uturn and coem back later. Sucker punch helps it off some threats that are faster and the Tera grass let's flower trick do a shit ton more than it should.

I don't like ribombee because it's already bug and 3 weak to fire is bad since it's common. I replaced it with volcarona which does similar as a setup and covers your fire weakness plus acts as an offensive fire typing for you. Heavy boots allow it to switch in free on any hazards.

Zorark is fine it does its job and rhe Assault Vest is good for keeping them on their toes but most good people will recognize its not what it is.

I gave enam Assault Vest because it's quite a bulky attacker and removed the flame orb because it should be a variety attacker and flame orb locks into facade basically. It has better coverage now.

Murkrow is replaced with tornadus as it's just better. There's also a bulky set if you want that.

[crude oracle]

wdym ribombee? it's bug fairy

how is it competing with the grass type

unless I'm missing something

[grizzled pumice]

It's bug typing is weak to fire is what I meant my b

[crude oracle]

o okay makes sense ye

[grizzled pumice]

It's also pretty frail

[crude oracle]

true but with a tailwind and a quiver dance or 2 it absolutely shreds ppl from my experience

[grizzled pumice]

Volcorona does a similar job in quiver dance buff plus covers what your other mons dont

[grizzled pumice]

So does volcarona but hits both lons

Mons

Volc doesn't even need a quiver half the time

[crude oracle]

o true actually

[grizzled pumice]

Tera grass covers a hydro pump or wave crash and giga drain heals all back in retur.

Also, I'm a fairly new player, about a month of doubles so everything I've said is from what I've seen. I know I havnt create the most optimal team but I believe its a great starting point. If anyone more experienced wants to tell me I'm completely wrong please do.

Also, there are strictly good and bad mons. Rillaboom is a better meowscarada in most cases and zoroak Is just bad I think so keep that in mind too. You can always use what you want but there are optimal mons.

[crude oracle]

@grizzled pumice sorry for the late reply

imma be testing the team

ty for the feedback

[peak crypt]

hi, more experienced player

this team's biggest problem is really just that the Pokemon aren't strong enough

four out of the six on nikotov's version aren't even in DOU by usage

[grizzled pumice]

this is exactly what I thought but I tried to keep the team the same just optimize them some

[peak crypt]

and pretty much every single slot has strict upgrades that are DOU by usage

[grizzled pumice]

I know when I make a team I try to make that team work as best as possible before replacing mons

[peak crypt]

I've certainly seen worse, the sets on the original at least have some thought put into them and there's a good amount of Protect

[grizzled pumice]

So I can learn what makes them bad

[peak crypt]

so many times it's just stats

like

why would I use Enamorus when I can use Flutter Mane? What does Meowscarada do for me that Ogerpon doesn't?

[grizzled pumice]

Also cause when I make a team its mons I like so I try to make the team like that injstead of just replacing them. But it is stricly better to choopse better mons

[peak crypt]

Zoroark is another "outclassed by Flutter Mane lol" moment but it also doesn't really work well without Flutter in the format

or at least didn't pre-Home when Flutter was banned

it's a little short on damage but also just dies to a light breeze

[crude oracle]

I just like the idea of using meow tbh😭

same with zoroark

just always wanted to use the 2

[peak crypt]

I think if you want to use one you need to drop the other

they kind of do the same thing: okay damage, awful bulk, very meta dependent Speed

and they both die to Heat Wave

[crude oracle]

after doing like 10 battles

meow is lacking for me ngl idk

[crude oracle]

so what uh

@peak crypt what should I switch

meow for

[peak crypt]

I've gotta go to dinner pretty soon, we'll chat later

think about if you want something similar to Meow or something that plays totally different

[grizzled pumice]

Rillaboom

Ogerpon

[crude oracle]

is it similar tho to meow

I want something close to jt

bc funny fast cat

[grizzled pumice]

Ogerpon is that

Grass form

Rillaboom is that too but it's a little more bulky

Grassy glide js a prio move in grass field

Plus it has fake out

Ogerpon is mostly similar as its super speed

[tight spire]

Ogerpon has 110 speed so its pretty speedy, its fire form also has immense damage when it teras

[grizzled pumice]

Brother play a different game.

[peak crypt]

fangame is one of the most famous one tricks in all of DOU

“different” is not a word he knows

[grizzled pumice]

17 hours payday bro

[tight spire]

I like the game and I left it on overnight

[tight spire]

The gameplay reminds me of Goldeneye

[peak crypt]

yeah Ogerpon is probably your best bet if you want something similar to Meow

I would probably advise not using Hearthflame if you want to keep the Zoroark, since Hearthflame's Mold Breaker has an activation message when you send it in

so a smart opponent will see there's no Mold Breaker and know it's Zoroark

if you end up dropping the Zoroark, you could also go full nuclear and run Chien-Pao

[polar lotus]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1993194449-pjn7jargq0c1l3pz4xdgduk2w9djiyapw @peak crypt this was just a random showcase of me using that Pheesh Team

[peak crypt]

I gotta be honest with you

this is not a great game

your opponent's team was awful and they still almost had a shot at winning

(and then they clicked Perish Song with their last two Pokemon in play)

[grizzled pumice]

tyhat is the most 1200 game ive ever seen

respectfully

[crude oracle]

what ogerpon should I run then instead of meow

[grizzled pumice]

Grass for speed, rock for sturdy(dont) fire for attack, water for defence

They all Tera to get the bonus

[grizzled pumice]

Water is the best without Tera cause water absorb is FAT AF but fire has the best attack out of all. Grass is there just for the odd time you REALLY need to outspeed and rock is uh. Rock.

At base they all have same stats tho just different typing.

[crude oracle]

so if I want the most similar to meow it'll be the grass type?

[grizzled pumice]

Really it'd be fire cause when you Tera meow it's for a stab bonus, not speed. Tera fire gives stab plus attack bonus

They're high speed anyway

[crude oracle]

do they have a prio move btw?

[grizzled pumice]

Yea, quick attack💀

If u want a priority attacker take rillaboom. It's basically just a better meowscarada and it shuts down armarouge psychic terrain

[crude oracle]

hell yeah that's... damn

okay so uh

I hate to ask this

but do u have the export info thingy for one? the ogerpon

bc i got no clue how to build one

[grizzled pumice]

Ivy cudgel, spiky shield, horn leech, kock off, max speed attack iv

U can make it bulkier by giving it some defense and spdefence and do a follow me but that's normally for water oger

[crude oracle]

this is for the grass one?

[grizzled pumice]

It's the same for fire and grass

[crude oracle]

o

[grizzled pumice]

Mmm actualy

Nah it is. Grass just has less coverage cause ivy and horn are both grass

U could swap horn leach for taunt or smth

[crude oracle]

so fire would just be better no

[grizzled pumice]

But it heals

[crude oracle]

[grizzled pumice]

Fire is better yea

[crude oracle]

o but that overlaps

grass only overlaps with sinistcha

hm

[grizzled pumice]

It's fine to overlap sometimes just use fire see how it goes

Then use grass see how it goes

It's all trial and error

[crude oracle]

what item on ogerpon

[grizzled pumice]

Mask

[crude oracle]

nvm

I didn't see it needed mask

[grizzled pumice]

Aight gl man it's 5am cya

[crude oracle]

ty homie

sorry for keeping u up

[grizzled pumice]

I'm awake of my own stupidity

[crude oracle]

also quickly uh

u said horn leech for taunt

is that on fire over or grass

or viable on botj

both*

[tardy bear]

Believe it was for fire

[crude oracle]

I think so yeah

haven't tried taunt yet but

so far with horn leech it's been great

5 winning streak

feels good winning as a new player😭

[tardy bear]

Mhm

[grizzled pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/get-real-tinkaton-gif-27120983

[grizzled pumice]

[wooden vale]

https://pokepast.es/9ee7fa76b24ad5f2 I'm having problems with water types. If you can do this team better tell me and thanks.

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

Yes

You need speed control my good sir

Or a better screens setter

Either replace the ursaluna with Ninetales a

And put a different set on the chiyu

Or add a tornadus over the bear

And still do replace the chiyu

[grizzled pumice]

What about fire types too lol

You're only resist is chi yu

The rest are neutral or super

[brittle spade]

Try this : https://pokepast.es/72492d5b9f1e1421

It should perform much better

[grizzled pumice]

Looks good to me

Just needed that spot for support

[wooden vale]

Thanks

[brittle spade]

Forgot the evs on the teapot, here it's fixed : https://pokepast.es/b6c92f5628104a11

Kingambit set KOs offensive ogerpon at +2 with sucker punch

You could also try a bulkier tornadus set, would work too

[wooden vale]

Thanks seeing the evs i think you are very good at this game and you probably looked up in pokemon calc. So thanks for that much effort.

[brittle spade]

Oh some of the sets aren't even mine

Pokemon is like coding

It's a lot of copy pasting

[wooden vale]

but thanks for the effort of doing this

[brittle spade]

Np my pleasure

Hf

[grizzled pumice]

You also have to know what you can ko tho or tank with those EV's. Just keep a mental note about how much damage you take or deal

I mean you do all the time, but specifically with the EVS given u gotta look out more

That way you underhand why those ev are given not just accept they were.

[peak crypt]

honestly I made my bulky Lando spread back in May when Home compatibility was added and I think I forgot a week later

and I still use that spread

[grizzled pumice]

When I used volcanion I thought about doing a specific spread but realized just balls to the walls atk hp

[crude oracle]

@grizzled pumice ik it's prolly not high but I hit 1200 rating with the team

[grizzled pumice]

Congrats

Keep goin

[crude oracle]

@grizzled pumice so from a couple more games, my strat with zoroark tailwind is fun but the hyper voice does Carry me sometimes, zoroark isn't reliable enough for me

what could I switch it for

the other dude reccomended chien pao

[peak crypt]

Remind me what the six Pokémon were again?

[crude oracle]

fire ogerpon, sinistcha, tornadus, volca, enamorus, zoroark-hisui

sorry for the late reply

I didn't get the noti

[peak crypt]

Yeah I didn’t tag you so there wouldn’t be one

Right now I think this team just really struggles against Tornadus

It just gets to click Bleakwind for free

[crude oracle]

trick room hasn't been the best

for me either

ngl

to play against

[peak crypt]

I realize at this point we’re basically just making a whole new team

But I would honestly just swap out all of Volcarona, Enamorus, and Zoroark

[crude oracle]

yeah it's sad but

my teams sucks

[peak crypt]

The original version was like

bad bad

[crude oracle]

my original was wayyyyy worse

yeah

I still win with it somehow

won*

[peak crypt]

You could hot swap those three with like

Heatran, Flutter Mane, Iron Hands

And give that a whirl

[crude oracle]

what if I'd only wanna switch zoroark?

I refuse to use heatran

proud hater

[peak crypt]

Heatran is so good though!

Volcanion works too

[crude oracle]

he is but

[peak crypt]

Still a bulky Fire but has a totally different weakness profile

[crude oracle]

he's from my fav gen but the old sprites r so so ugly for him

[peak crypt]

If you just want to swap out Zoroark, I think you actually want like Iron Hands in that slot

Hands loves having Sinistcha as a partner

Sinistcha is pretty good into Lando-T

[crude oracle]

idk a mon that doesn't love sinistcha ngl

[peak crypt]

And Hospitality with Iron Hands is gross

[crude oracle]

sinistcha my fav mon from the team tbh

[peak crypt]

It doesn’t have the best stats but it just does what it needs to do so well

[crude oracle]

fr and

it's moves r rlly nice aswell

rage powder with calm mind, shadow ball and matcha thingy

it's good imo

[peak crypt]

But anyway something like AV Hands will do you well in the Zoroark slot

[crude oracle]

av? assault vest?

[peak crypt]

It’s a pretty radical departure from what Zoroark does, but it’s just really good and will help patch up your Tornadus and TR matchups

Assault Vest yeah

Max Attack max Special Defense, Adamant, Wild Charge / Drain Punch / Heavy Slam / Fake Out, probably Tera Water on this team

There are some more detailed AV Hands spreads out there, but I’m not home right now to check for them, and 252/252 will work just fine

You run max SpD because your HP and Defense are already crazy high

[crude oracle]

ooo okay

[crude oracle]

adamant?

[peak crypt]

Yep

[crude oracle]

in what situations should I consider to tera iron hands

[peak crypt]

Iron Hands generally likes to use Tera on turns where it can take a knockout

Like if your opponent has Flutter Mane out, you might want to Tera Water and smack it with Heavy Slam

But it will occasionally just win games because your opponent has run out of moves to hit a Water type

Like against Chien-Pao Dragonite stuff

Tera is complicated and learning how to use it well is a skill

And I am not the best at teaching it

[crude oracle]

and I hate to ask this bc alot of answers but what should my opener be from now on? I always start tornadus + zoroark ngl

[peak crypt]

You never want a set opener

[crude oracle]

yeah true but

[peak crypt]

Iron Hands is a great lead because of Fake Out

But you always want to make sure you’re paying attention to what your opponent has

[crude oracle]

oh true actually

one day they'll make a move that is fake out + u turn

frfr

[peak crypt]

Hands + Ogerpon is a great aggressive lead, Hands + Volcarona can try to get an early setup going

But sometimes you just want like

Enam Oger click your highest base power moves

[crude oracle]

enam has carried alot of games ngl

[peak crypt]

Torn Ogerpon can get Tailwind up early too

[crude oracle]

superpower twice and then just one shot ppl with play rough

[crude oracle]

yeah I tend to always open with torn for tailwind tbh

or sometimes taunt if I expect a yawn or something

[storm raven]

https://pokepast.es/49dc85a8e514435b im new to this pls help :3

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

how did you land on decent sets for five good Pokemon

and a Life Orb Alomomola

[storm raven]

3 are from wolfys vid, 2 i just played agienst and liked, and idk cause regenerator seem good

plus flip turn to switch into landorus

[peak crypt]

so we'll get to the Alomomola in a bit (it's bad. you are removing it.)

but the team kind of has two halves that don't work great together

half the team hard focuses on keeping Kommo-o alive

and then you just have two Scarf mons that don't really do anything that Kommo-o needs and kind of just deal damage

neither Chi-Yu nor Lando-T really beat anything that Kommo-o can't already beat with the set you have

and as it stands right now, the team has two particularly big weaknesses

you can't really do anything against opposing Tailwind teams besides click Icy Wind and pray

and Flutter Mane sort of eats you alive

you have to Tera to get a resist

you can start solving the Flutter problem by smashing Alomomola and Chi-Yu together into a Volcanion

it's kind of a boring Pokemon, but healing from Cress and Sinistcha gives you big payoffs, because Volcanion is really good at just sitting around and clicking moves

and then the last slot is probably an Iron Hands

Fake Out buys you turns against opposing Tailwind, Hands itself is great into Tornadus, and it's another Pokemon that pairs really well with healing partners

Cress also really wants to not be Tera Psychic

you can run Dark if you're super worried about Taunts, but with two attacks it's not the end of the world if you do get Taunted

speaking of which I'm taking off the Mental Herb; this team needs a better Amoonguss matchup and Safety Goggles makes it much easier

@storm raven implementing these changes should look something like this https://pokepast.es/3163fed5d40eeb57

there are many things bad about that Alomomola though

the Pokemon is simply not good

it just has a really weak movepool

but trying to run an offensive set doesn't really play to the few strengths it has

it's okay at being a bulky support with stuff like Wide Guard and Icy Wind, but it doesn't really do it better than the more common support Pokemon

and no amount of EVs and no items can make its attacks deal respectable damage

[storm raven]

ye tht makes since i just like fish lol, thanks for the help ill have to test out the team

[grizzled pumice]

Based

[grizzled pumice]

If u lied fish barrasccuda

[crude oracle]

@grizzled pumice@peak crypthttps://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1994778531

i like this team

way more

hella fun

[peak crypt]

hell yeah

[grizzled pumice]

Looks good. Idk about enamouros still but that's preference of mine

[shell arrow]

https://pokepast.es/81d7c455683a2224

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[shell arrow]

Wanted to make a TR team that can outspeed other TR teams outside of TR.

tbh Im open to any changes. I just dont want to use torkoal in my team though

[peak crypt]

based Torkoal hater

the biggest issue I see with the team is that Flutter Chi-Yu kind of dunks on it, but besides that it's honestly pretty decent

the next biggest problem is Conk and Chandelure just aren't all that great

you could be using Iron Hands instead!

and once you're there you could swap Chandelure for Diancie, which is really good into all of Flutter Mane, Chi-Yu, and popular Taunt user Tornadus, and I think you have a pretty solid six

I think you'd also benefit a lot from Grassy Glide on Ogerpon instead of Horn Leech

https://pokepast.es/84385c358612d792 something like this

(full disclosure: I forget what that Iron Hands EV spread does)

I also swapped the Vacuum Wave on Ursaluna for Blood Moon, but I think Wave is still fine

I need to head to bed but if you've got questions or comments @shell arrow other raters will be happy to help too

or failing that I'll be awake again eventually

[shell arrow]

hmm i was thinking of replacing conk with regular ursaluna. but then idk what to replace blood moon with tho

[shell arrow]

thanks for the recommendations

[crude oracle]

imma be honest enamorus has been nuts for me in some games😭 they let me superpower twice or 3 times then I just play rough or iron head everhring with a tailwind

ohkos so much

[torpid moat]

it'll get worse and worse as your opponents get more competent

[shell arrow]

Why Grassy Glide > Horn Leech btw? With Horn Leech Ogerpon can potentially regain some health to use follow me again during mid to late game

[peak crypt]

Grassy Terrain also does that, and having Grassy Glide means Ogerpon can still attack even under Trick Room

[obtuse bane]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask but could I get some help making a DOU team gen 6? We're having a tournament at work and I've never really dabbled in pokemon too much. By the rules of the tournament I'm required to have Swampert and Exeggutor in my team, any help would be appreciated.

[peak crypt]

Politoed, Thundurus, Mega Swampert, Kingdra, Exeggutor, Talonflame

the Exeggutor should probably just be clicking Sleep Powder, so maybe something like Protect / Giga Drain / Psychic / Sleep Powder with Harvest and Sitrus Berry

and the other five can be straight up ripped from the XY DOU sample team: https://pokepast.es/83cd068200ed836a

[obtuse bane]

How's this? https://pokepast.es/c3ae193da1614276

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

is everyone required to have swampert exxegutor on their team or just you ?

[obtuse bane]

So the main idea was that you get your favourite pokemon and one random one in your team

My favourite is Mudkip so I evolved that to swampert and Egg is my random pull

[brittle spade]

just run the six arcticblast suggested

you're not gonna get mileage from rain dance hitmontop

use this for exeggutor
Exeggutor @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 172 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Protect
• Sleep Powder
• Giga Drain/Substitute
• Psychic

[polar lotus]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1996365401 So somehow this battle went better than last time

Im kinda curious about the spectrier tho

[worldly sable]

Can doubles UU be posted here or do I need to go somewhere else?

[peak crypt]

It’s probably better to go in the DOU Discord server (DUU doesn’t have its own)

However

A few of the DOU raters might be able to help

Go ahead and post it, if nobody’s said much in a day ping me

@worldly sable

[worldly sable]

ik this looks kinda whack but anyway to fix this?
https://pokepast.es/7465b4ed37ef271a

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[earnest junco]

Walking wake sylveon and scizor are all pretty

Ungood right now

I feel like politoed and rain dance is kinda redundant but i dont hate it

[worldly sable]

rain dance is just in case I encounter abomasnow

or politoed dies

[earnest junco]

Abomasnow is entirely outclassed by ninetales

And your plan into that is just having more pivots than they do

Eith eject button poli

[shell arrow]

This is a duu team right

[worldly sable]

yeah

[earnest junco]

Oh

I can’t read, i assumed it was dou

Because channel name

Nvm then

[worldly sable]

for DOU I have something completely different that's already been adjusted before

so I ain't posting that

[peak crypt]

smh you gotta read!!!

[torpid moat]

try running hvoice/cm/sub/protect lefties sylv

it's way more reliable/harder to play around than wish

run like life orb or av or even cb basc, and give it a defensive tera like grass

also try zapdos over thund

[grizzled pumice]

Just run rayquaza and eternatus

And groudon and other legendaries

[torpid moat]

consider tinkaton over sciz as well if you feel like you're missing fake out

[grizzled pumice]

They're all pretty under used

Tinkaton my beloved.

[polar lotus]

NGL it'd be funny to see kyogre and groudon in DUU

[grizzled pumice]

Just give it like 1/5th stats and bring it to littles

[polar lotus]

I have an even better idea

lets make it so that all pokemon can use the eviolite item

[grizzled pumice]

Oh lord

Shuckle

[polar lotus]

eviolite shucke

by beloved

[shell arrow]

Isn't eviolite dondozzo technically even worse, or eviolite iron hands

[tight spire]

Eviolite Iron hands would be the worse

Shuckle has no bulk or proper recovery

And would still be lousy with eviolite

[grizzled pumice]

Yea but big defense numbers funny

[polar lotus]

Actually now That you mention it, eternatus max with eviolite would be a straight up nightmare to face

[tight spire]

thats just pure hackmons at that point

[abstract coral]

https://pokepast.es/0a85ce9db826d35c Working well rn but i do need to refine it against fairies and other tailwind teams. Also trust defensive Chi Yu, he has been winning games.

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[earnest junco]

Well firstly your gholdengo only has two attacks

[abstract coral]

Oh yea, prob should put 2 more there

[earnest junco]

Also murkrow is

[abstract coral]

Never use anything other than rain tbh

[earnest junco]

Very useless here

Its not good on its own and you already have torn

Probably use rillaboom over it

For fake out + a wellspring check

The movesets are also just

Really weird

Like why does your specs drago have eq and explosion

[abstract coral]

Oh shoot, i forgor, i changed eq to earth power alr, forgot to save

Explosion there cause explosion i guess

[peak crypt]

You do not need double Prankster Tailwind

[abstract coral]

So i assume i run grass glide ans fake out on boom, what else?

[earnest junco]

https://pokepast.es/8be8fefe2c8e6ce3

If you want to run specs ghold + sub chi yu

Thats fine too ig

Just run dpulse > taunt

On the set you were using

[abstract coral]

I see

[earnest junco]

I think fari > landot could like

Maybe work

[peak crypt]

What was the idea behind running both Murkrow and Tornadus?

[earnest junco]

Landot is just more consistent

[peak crypt]

I’m not trying to go over top Noelle’s ideas, I’m just curious on the reasoning

[abstract coral]

Usually tornadus died when facing trick room teams, even with protect, so i just have a backup one if needed

Also, no need to worry about speed tie tornadus as well, i could just send out murk

[peak crypt]

A backup what? You shouldn’t be clicking Tailwind against the Trick Room teams anyway

[earnest junco]

Prankster tw stuff is usually not very good into tr anyway

With this team the plan is probably just trying to stall as many turns as possible with protects

While trying to get ghold set up for a reverse sweep when tr ends

But even though this team has a solid amount of bulk you’ll prob have to sack something to get through tr against good teams

[abstract coral]

Thats the thing, usually it ends up being my tailwind user, i sac em to get gold in for free in the final trick room turn

[earnest junco]

Imo when teambuilding the goal is less to just “have this button to click in this situation” its “if my opponent does this, do i have a coherent game plan to win the game?”

Like this team doesnt have a delete button for ogerpon but you have the tools to play around it

With intim + u turn pivots + scarf chi

[earnest junco]

With this team you should keep torn in the back vs trick room

The sack should prob end up being lando in most games

Which you can use to get torn in to tailwind on the last tr turn

To set up a reverse sweep

The thing with prepping into trick room is

[abstract coral]

I see, so i save tw for after they trick room, rather than at the beggining?

[earnest junco]

Against good players, you aren’t preventing the first trick room, the idea is just to have tools to survive throughout the trick room and then abuse the fact that the average speed of your pokemon is faster than your opponent

The speed gap is made even wider by tailwind

Which is why its so important to keep torn alive

[abstract coral]

Ah, so we let the first one through, survive and set up, then reverse sweep?

[earnest junco]

The idea is just to use torn’s tailwind + ghold/drago/chiyu to output enough damage to deny a second trick room

[earnest junco]

Pretty much yea

[abstract coral]

Is Farigiraf ok on this team? Armor tail helps in ensuring no fake outs and prio to deal with tailwind

[peak crypt]

Farigiraf is cool

You can actually run Imprison to lock teams out of TR

[abstract coral]

Oh, interesting

[peak crypt]

sort of a hybrid between your original draft and Noelle's team would be something like this https://pokepast.es/4dde7331c86c0828

mostly just swapped Rillaboom in over Murkrow and changed some sets around

[earnest junco]

I like scarf chi yu a little bit more here bc it gives you a speed demon mon for tailwind mirrors and is nice in endgames

[peak crypt]

Fake Out lets you buy extra turns against opposing field effects like Tailwind

[earnest junco]

But sub is fine if you want to use a bulky set

[peak crypt]

and gives you an easier time clicking your strong spread moves

you don't really need a speed demon for Tailwind mirrors because Farigiraf can use Trick Room against them

[abstract coral]

uh huh

[peak crypt]

oh, speaking of Farigiraf, let me fix up some Tera types

[abstract coral]

also, drago is ok, right?

[earnest junco]

Its fine

[abstract coral]

has terrible move pool but damn it hurts at max hp

[peak crypt]

here https://pokepast.es/7f409f2b5e33a6e6

[earnest junco]

Drago with tera and earth power fixes most of its main problems

This tier also has very limited fairy options outside of flutter

Which lets drago do stupid amounts of damage

To most teams

[abstract coral]

Nice, i like drago so this is a win

I assume horsepower on boom is for ground coverage, since i was going ask if more speed control in drum beating was needed

[earnest junco]

No, if anything run wood hammer

[abstract coral]

Also, goggles on giraf? No recovery in leftovers?

[earnest junco]

You need an amoonguss matchup

Also gterrain gives it fake leftovers for a bit

Which is enough

[abstract coral]

I see

[earnest junco]

As broken as leftovers + grassy terrain is

Its not needed

[abstract coral]

Also, just asking meta wise, if anything is faster than iron bundle booster energy speed

[peak crypt]

no

you gotta click Tailwind to outrun that

Booster Bundle hits 612 speed

[crude oracle]

@peak crypt how well does scream tail work in doubles?

ik it's stupid beefy

so I'm thinking av and like

just chip moves

or sum

[peak crypt]

Scream Tail doesn’t have the offensive stats to do any damage, so AV is out of the question

You usually just end up running three support moves and a single attack (so you don’t get forced to Struggle by Taunt users)

A lot of Scream’s niche has been taken away because Cresselia is just so damn good, but it can separate itself with fast Encore, Disable, and Stealth Rock, and Howl next to strong physical attackers isn’t awful

[brittle spade]

Best scream tail set in dou is howl psychic fangs encore play rough

[brave flume]

https://pokepast.es/0a03200f6c559fc8

Managed to grab a couple wins with this. But is it actually good? Also, some suggestions for better tera types would be great.

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torpid moat]

lots of moveset inefficiencies here and grimm and garganacl don't really mesh well with hard trick room

also boots sucks

for one thing, you wanna put protect on your mons

like over sub on sinistcha, over crunch on luna, over shadow ball on farig

do fire tera sinistcha, normal tera luna, grass or dragon garg or poison garg, grass hands

but yeah seriously consider cutting grimm and garg, or switch to a balance team with only 1 tr setter + luna

[brave flume]

Thanks for the tera suggestions and the advice on protect.

What would you put over boots? And also, why do they suck? I'm fairly new to competitive and even newer to doubles so if you could explain that would be great.

[torpid moat]

boots suck because hazards are not as relevant in doubles format

because games are significantly shorter and using an attack is often just more profitable than clicking a hazard

and your mons are not going to be repeatedly switching back in either

when in doubt, use sitrus berry

you have to basically compare every recovery item with sitrus

meaning leftovers is only better than sitrus when your mon is definitely staying on the field 5+ turns

and boots should only really be considered over sitrus when you're a 4x rock weak like volcarona, or you're a 2x rock weak that pivots often like incineroar

since sinistcha wants immediate survivability as a tr setter, it'd want sitrus

or possibly mental herb to dodge all 3 of taunt spore fake out

which are common tr answers

also give sinistcha rage powder over hex

grimm wants light clay, because its whole purpose is to set screens for as long as possible

though it doesn't fit too well on hard trick room that's trying to be offensive

[brave flume]

Okay, thanks for the explanations. Definitely makes a lot of sense. The games are a lot shorter (my last one was my longest at 12 turns) so yeah, I guess hazards being less important is just something that happens.

Why rage powder though? Just reading it makes it sound pretty bad. Is it an emergency thing? Like, if your other pokemon would be threatened out normally, you can click rage powder and have it survive the extra turn?

[brave flume]

Thought process behind boots on Grimm was that it'd go in and out a lot, mostly supporting with fake out and parting shot. And I thought hazards would still be important enough to warrant it. The screens are there as basically just extra stuff because I didn't know what else to put there. Would taunt maybe be good to put over one of them?

[torpid moat]

if you want a second generic fake out user, rillaboom is the best option

fits very well on room/semiroom

[brave flume]

Okay. Thanks for all your help.

[torpid moat]

consider cresselia as well over sinistcha if you do that

or over farig, or over both

cress's lunar blessing works very well with luna because it negates the flame orb damage

and then flame orb reactivates at end of turn

[brave flume]

That's definitely something to look into. Flame orb damage hasn't given me a problem so far, probably also because the games are pretty short, but that combo sounds pretty neat.

[crude oracle]

would kangaskhan have any usability? I don't remember it's abilities and whatnot but nobody hates kanga

[peak crypt]

Kangaskhan is good in XY DOU where you can Mega Evolve it

Outside of that you should leave it at home

[crude oracle]

sounds like a challenge

[peak crypt]

You cannot build Kangaskhan in SV DOU

[crude oracle]

trust in the power of kanga

[peak crypt]

Not simply because it is bad, but because it is not in SV

[crude oracle]

oh

goddamit

[peak crypt]

But even if it was, it doesn’t really have something it does well that can’t be done by something better

[crude oracle]

guess I'll make a team with scream tail or something

no clue what yet

[peak crypt]

You could maybe work with Scrappy Fake Out, but justifying a Pokémon with pretty low stats solely off of Fake Out is a hard sell

Scream Tail is pretty fun

[crude oracle]

I don't rlly see a reason to use kanga fake out over iron hands tbh

[peak crypt]

Exactly

Kang just doesn’t have the stats or the typing to compete

[crude oracle]

so I just switched to a new PC but ion have my old teams

@peak crypt is there a way to access my old teams? bc i kinda want my main doubles team back

[peak crypt]

Go turn on the old PC

There should be a button at the bottom of the teambuilder that says Backup/Restore Teams or something like that

Go onto Smogon forums and find the Sandbox, start a new thread there, copy paste

[crude oracle]

it's uh

dead

fully dead

[peak crypt]

Then so are your teams unfortunately

[crude oracle]

welp

thats

depressing

[crude oracle]

I'm trynna make a team with scream rn but

idk what complements eachother wel

[peak crypt]

Teams are saved in cookies, which is system memory and not stored online

You can put some teams online now but if they weren’t there already, it’s too late

Scream is a really disruptive Pokemon

[crude oracle]

I'm checking Smogon but that seems

outdated

[peak crypt]

You usually want to use it to help setup sweepers get going

Or to just stop your opponent from doing things

[crude oracle]

so what would be great around scream?

chien?

[peak crypt]

Stuff like Kommo-o

[crude oracle]

kommo is good in sv?

[peak crypt]

Yeah

Tera helps it out a lot

physical and special Clangorous Soul sets work, and Iron Defense + Body Press also works

The Pokémon is just pretty good

And being a Dragon gives you good matchups into stuff like Ogerpon

[crude oracle]

so how should I run it? what item

life orb?

oo covert cloak seems decent no?

so no para hacks or freeze stuff

[peak crypt]

Depends on the set

Cloak is not the item you run though

[crude oracle]

I found a kommo set

[crude oracle]

wouldn't running kommo and iron hands be kinda bad? bc flutter absolutely bullies then no

why r the showdown servers so bad for me

tf

[peak crypt]

You do not need Iron Hands on every team

(It’s very good though!)

[crude oracle]

yeah I rlly like using it

it kinda cleans up amazing for me

@peak crypt actually would tera steel help kommo? since it would help against flutter then

[torpid moat]

you basically have to stack flutter checks when running kommo

but yes it teras often

fire or steel usually

[crude oracle]

why fire?

[peak crypt]

Kommo-o will probably Tera in around 75% of your games

Fire keeps the Fairy resist without giving you a Fighting or Fire weakness

[crude oracle]

yes but then water ogerpon is the massive issue

which is a more scary issue for me

fire makes sense aswell tho now I think Abt it

agaisnt fire pon

hm

I'm thinking of adding tornadus agaisnt for tailwind

idk if tailwind is needed tho

don't think it is

bc of how fast I already am

[torpid moat]

before you do that, are you doing body press or clang?

[crude oracle]

clang

[torpid moat]

torn is necessary still

[crude oracle]

bet

what iv do I put for torn

[crude oracle]

actually what item for tornadus?

bc i don't remember

[torpid moat]

sash or cloak

[crude oracle]

and IVs?

bulky?

[torpid moat]

sash would run 252 spe 252 spa

[crude oracle]

sorry for the questions I'm still new to all of this

I'm running cloak

[torpid moat]

cloak would run hp spe

or potentially still spa spe

both would be timid

fat cloak is also an option

[crude oracle]

fat?

[torpid moat]

which is max bulk, just a smidge of speed

[crude oracle]

that could be nice for switchins

tbh

[torpid moat]

you'll miss the speed in torn mirrors or against certain things like booster flutter

but the bulk can be nice

torn mirror meaning their torn can taunt your torn before you can twind

[crude oracle]

nah I don't like that

ill run speed hp

[torpid moat]

btw, there is already a kommo sample out there

https://pokepast.es/95f0335842fd37ae

this one teras vs flutter very very often

[crude oracle]

I took sinistcha and rillaboom from this

that made me think tho

could I as the last Mon add bloodmoon ursa?

[peak crypt]

Blood Moon is not nearly as good as people think it is

You don’t want it

[crude oracle]

is normal ursa better or bloodmoon

[crude oracle]

@peak crypt@torpid moat

https://pokepast.es/c8b5b7e2a12aa936

the team i made

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[crude oracle]

i did not

expect that to ping

sorry

[peak crypt]

Boomburst hits your partner and is bad

Hands is Tera Fighting with no Fighting moves

[crude oracle]

oh it hits the partner? 😭

[peak crypt]

Yeah

[crude oracle]

I didn't change his tera yet

bc i has no clue

what to change it to

had*

[peak crypt]

Hands really wants both STABs

Volt Switch is cool but that takes up the Heavy Slam slot

It never replaces a Fighting move

[crude oracle]

ye I was deciding between switch and heavy slam

[peak crypt]

Sinistcha wants Matcha Gotcha not Giga Drain

[crude oracle]

I totally didn't forget that move

so what could I switch out boomburst for

[peak crypt]

And the Scream set needs some work I think - this team won’t get a lot of use out of Howl, and Scream Tail is not Howling for itself

Something like Dazzling Gleam / Encore / Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave will probably work better

[crude oracle]

I'll fix that, what should I change hands tera type to

and boomburst replacement?

[peak crypt]

I'd say probably Fire on this team

Boomburst can be either Flash Cannon or Protect

Scream Tail probably also wants Tera Steel and not Fairy (though you probably won't use your Tera much)

could also be Tera Poison to resist Fairy and soak up Toxic Spikes in a pinch

Tornadus is missing four EVs too

[torpid moat]

scream tail gets fake tears right

[crude oracle]

yes

just checked

@peak crypthttps://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1999030742

forgot to switch out

volt switch

but the crit won me it

[peak crypt]

clicking Tailwind against that team was kind of a waste

[polar lotus]

huh I thought baton pass was banned

[peak crypt]

Diancie Sinistcha Torkoal is pretty clearly Trick Room

Baton Pass is not very good in doubles so it is legal

[torpid moat]

your opponent only really got anything done because you completely ignored them

rilla and hands should've come in way earlier

[peak crypt]

@crude oracle

[crude oracle]

why a waste?

[peak crypt]

your Pokemon are already faster than pretty much all of theirs

and against Sinistcha and Diancie you can't really click Tailwind because they might reverse it with Trick Room

[crude oracle]

that's my bad bc i didn't know either of them could learn trick room ngl

torkoal I expected but

I was curious on why he would trick room

with yuyu on

[crude oracle]

I was kinda too scared to switch in rillaboom ngl bc I'm not familiar with how beefy and what he can't and can tank

[peak crypt]

there's one way to find out

regardless, switching to anything there would have been better than leaving a Tornadus in on a Diancie

Tornadus + Scream Tail isn't a very good lead because it lets your opponent kind of just do whatever they want

[crude oracle]

yeah for half the battle I forgot it was a rock type ngl, been a couple days since I played

[peak crypt]

you can hover over your opponent's Pokemon with the mouse to see what type they are

regardless

remember that winning involves doing things

[crude oracle]

yeah It just didn't click in my head😭

[peak crypt]

you led off with two Pokemon that don't really accomplish anything on their own

[crude oracle]

I won with the easiest way to win, crit to win

[peak crypt]

against that team, Scream Tail + Rillaboom or Iron Hands was probably a much stronger lead

and then when you saw the Clefairy lead you could Fake Out the Diancie and switch to Tornadus to Taunt it

[crude oracle]

ngl I expected heavy slam

to do so much more

agaisnt clefairy

even with it's eviolite

[peak crypt]

you were -1 and Reflect was up

[crude oracle]

yea but still😭

[peak crypt]

you should never assume an attack will OHKO Clefairy

chances are it will not.

[crude oracle]

small question I just thought of

so I know crits ignore buffs and whatnot

do crits also ignore debuffs on the person who gets a crit?

[peak crypt]

no

actually

yes

[crude oracle]

which one is it😭

[peak crypt]

a -6 Iron Hands that crits a Wild Charge will deal the same damage as an unboosted Iron Hands that crits a Wild Charge

sorry, I read it wrong and thought you meant ignoring like a Defense drop on the target

[crude oracle]

oh mb

I didn't rlly know how to word it

[peak crypt]

you wrote it right! I simply can't read

[crude oracle]

also I switched out colt switch for drain punch

that's fine right

[peak crypt]

yes

[primal bramble]

I have two ursaluna teams. One regular and one with blood moon. Is it great?

https://pokepast.es/41bdd5771d5734a6

https://pokepast.es/df9bcc9126b31c3b

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torpid moat]

regular luna is better by far, but dusclops sucks

it's just too passive and offers no real utility

you would want a diancie in that slot

also use headlong rush or sd over drain punch on luna

also normal tera

[crude oracle]

ngl idk if it's the people in agaisnt but this team feels stronger than my old onr

kommo kinda craz

[crude oracle]

@peak crypti dont like tooting my own horn

but

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1999766057

i clutched this

idk why bloodmoon didnt do an earth type move tho

[peak crypt]

okay let's talk about this turn 2

you had full health Iron Hands in on Chi-Yu, Drifblim was Taunted and used Tera

why did you switch out Hands?

[grizzled pumice]

He also swapped out scream tail wasting booster plus like every turn of tailwind and sacked his sinischta

Feels like I'm watching a singles with all the swapping

[polar lotus]

https://pokepast.es/a8b90568f9ee34a8 NGL despite not being the most balanced team, this was somehow able to win me a lot of battles

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[grizzled pumice]

What does cresellia do here. I feel like she's just a stat stick that can be ignored

[polar lotus]

healer

[grizzled pumice]

Yea but it's 25 percent and double ups would brute force through it.

[polar lotus]

I realized the biggest flaw in my team was lack of reliable recovery

originally my healer was indeedee

[grizzled pumice]

Why not sinistcha?

Rwge powder, heals on switch in

Can get rid of it quick after hesl for more power or bait fighting normal types

Even eject button for more hesls

Heals

Plus it's pretty good on damage

Pairs well with kommo

What's your usual strategy?

Is kommo the star or the backup

[polar lotus]

umm

lead with chi u and tornadus

[grizzled pumice]

So once tailwind is setup and chi yu locks into specs what happens. Into a good matching it's quite strong but in a losing position who comes out after someone dies

[polar lotus]

https://pokepast.es/f53e3fdba76f335d so heres my team with sinischa

generally either flutter or ogerpon

[grizzled pumice]

Yea I just don't see a game where cresselia is always useful but sinistcha has immediate value and cannot be stopped.

Try it out some and come back with some results.

[peak crypt]

I actually think Cress is better

[grizzled pumice]

I thunk if kommo is backup it's decent cause the bulk but I like sinistcha

[peak crypt]

Sinistcha has worse bulk and more "mandatory" slots than Cress

and it doesn't really beat anything the team can't already handle

I do think Cress would be better with Icy Wind or Thunder Wave over Dazzling Gleam to take some of the speed control stress off of Tornadus

[grizzled pumice]

Mmmm looking more into it cress is cool I was just looking at that moveset. I still think sinistcha immediate value is more helpful cause u can also use it help ur other members instead of just kommo.

[peak crypt]

Cress can click Lunar Blessing on everything too, not just Kommo-o

and clearing status can be really important against Glimmora and Wisp users

[grizzled pumice]

Yea but double ups onto them are gonna be common if they know you're gonna fo that

Sinistcha has the rage powder

[peak crypt]

Lunar Blessing goes through Protect

[grizzled pumice]

Chi is choiced but I guess that works for flutter

[peak crypt]

so if you're worried about the thing you're trying to heal dying before Cress can use the move, you can Protect that slot

[polar lotus]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1999960141 Ok admittetly chai wasn't helpful this match, but this match should reveal Gay Bowser's abilities

[grizzled pumice]

I've had bad experiences with cress and it's never been an issue for me since I just ignore it always.

The protect doesn't stop a second double up unless u do add the icy thinder but then you're not lunar blessing or protecting a double up.

[peak crypt]

this team also just has enough damage that you can usually prevent a double target by murdering something

[grizzled pumice]

True

[peak crypt]

I honestly don't think this team needs healing support