#[AEV] Squiggle Land [180]

57 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

magic stirrupBOT
#
#180 : [AEV] Squiggle Land

A fairly simple AEV map. Eliminate all emitters to win.

If you'd like to help test out AEV 2.0, try out free build mode and open the new menu. Any feedback is appreciated.

Tags

APEXEVOLUTION, AEV, IRPL

small zealot
#

I found myself with some extra time last week, and I managed to add in the meta progression mode I've been hinting at, and a run modifier system I never hinted at. Information on those is in the new menu.

#

The plan is to add more mutators (the run modifiers) and add some more milestones to the progression mode over the next couple maps. I'm a little short on ideas to be honest, so I'm open to suggestions. The free build content is not meant to replace the existing normal game mode, it's meant to add some extra depth and replayability for people who want to get a little more out of the maps. Neither can be used to upload a level.

#

With that said, here's the change log:


# Fixes:
# Fixed a bug where upgrades affecting multiple modules would not immediately update stats.
# Fixed saving and loading on the upgrade screen
# Fixed death on teleport bug
# Possibly fixed occasional game crash on death
# Heavyspirit mastery did not properly ban the numheavyspirit upgrade
# Fixed game freeze when no upgrades are in the pool (if it happens, the choice is automatically skipped)
# Fixed sprites breaking on reload (this was a one character typo)

# Menu:
# Remade the help menu into a full menu, with some more options

# Misc. Changes
# Added "ApplyEffect" RPL message channel, which can be used to manually apply any upgrade effect string
# Each normal run now starts with 3 rerolls and 1 artifact reroll

# Modules
# Reduced heavyspirit damage from 20 to 15
# Reduced lokispirit damage from  1 to 0.6
# Reduced the effect of "AC Detonation" Lokispiri artifact from 10X base damage to 7X
# Moved Odin Cannon to use the shot system (no effect on gameplay)

# Artifacts
# Added an upgrade ban artifact
# Updated phase shifter description to mention AC flip on revive
# Tripled the effect of the Cannon: Damage Aura weapon artifact

# AEV 2.0 beta:

# Mutators:
# Added mutators in free build

# Progression:
# Added progression mode in free build```
slow otter
#

progression mode is a bit hard to conceptualize as to what exactly I have to do?

#

as in how do I even turn it on

#

I know I have to copy and paste something, but what is it?

small zealot
#

Go to this menu and hit "enable free build," then open the menu. Go to the "import/export" tab, then since you don't have a code, just hit "import" to enable progression mode with a new save. When you die or beat the level, you'll get a code you can copy down and write in to keep your progression. More info is in the menu.

image.png
zinc yoke
#

I just had a game crash while trying to retrieve my code to export after I failed the map.

hushed bramble
#

I think I selected the ban card but nothing happened. Am I tired and I screwed up or how does it work?

small zealot
#

You can click the ban button to toggle ban mode, then pick a card and it'll get banned.

abstract arch
#

I haven't explored the new stuff too much yet but it looks really interesting. The modifiers seem cool, I've only played with the Glass Cannon one so far (which is deceptively hard with how much AC is on this map if you're not careful painting shields you can flip a cell and die without noticing). Just replaying the map with each ship once to build up some upgrade points before I start turning on the actual difficult stuff. Going for XP buffs first because more chances for power-ups sooner seems like a good strategy once you start amping up the difficulty scaling.

abstract arch
#

One minor annoyance that seems unavoidable since keybinds are a thing, while typing in codes you can affect the game (unpausing, advancing frames, etc). Probably end up just being something to live with and be mindful of.

I rebound my pause key to R for easy pausing. There's really no hope of generating codes that would work for everyone.

small zealot
#

Yeah, P and N don't appear for that reason, but there's no way for me to disable the keys.

#

Actually, I might be able to force the game to stay paused. It wouldn't fix frame advance if someone rebinds that, but I have an idea I can give a try.

weak garnet
weak garnet
#

AND Meta progression, Ugh Qople you spoil us today

#

Also if you are looking for a quick idea, a single red upgrade the increases lathe distance and speed by 50 or 100% (dealers choice) Sometimes it sucks waiting for walls to build before I open up a section of wall

#

(if theres a worry about balance, maybe make it so that if weapons are not firing (excluding darkling because always active) it gets the bonus

weak garnet
#

@small zealot heads up, I was using the x4 experience modifier, and it says that damage is "halved" however it appears it instead is set to 1/4 damage
(this modifier was on all weapons)

image.png
abstract arch
#

Am I understanding that the meta progression mode gives you a 0.5 debuff to attack as a starting point? Then you can claw back 0.2 through the matrix?

#

Oh weird timing

#

You start with 0.5 power to begin with before adding any modifiers, in my experience.

#

So cutting it in half again gets you that 0.25

small zealot
#

Progression mode halves all your damage, and increases creeper scaling. It’s meant to essentially simulate slammer mode always being on.

weak garnet
#

oh

small zealot
#

If you max out all the damage stats it brings your DPS to about 20% more than the non-progression, plus the experience bonus and all the milestones. I’m planning on adding some milestones to the damage stats as well.

abstract arch
#

Figuring out what to do as milestones seems like a puzzle. So many weapons with different effects. Could accidentally make something really unbalanced. Though that's kind of fun in itself, anyway.

weak garnet
#

okay but why would starting meta progression punish you if the point is to feel "progress" from multiple runs. The challenge should come from mutations not the base system itself.

#

Draft and upgrade rush remove points from rewards but put you in worse positions then if you ran without them

small zealot
#

My thought process for the difficulty of progression mode was that I wanted it to be centered around meta progression and choosing and thinking about your matrix upgrades. Without adding some challenge, the meta progression just becomes unnecessary.

small zealot
weak garnet
#

for example: arguably upgrade rush becomes purely net negative because 1/4 damage * 4x experience becomes "congratulations you deal less damage for 1x experience, oh and also no matrix points" edit - 1 matrix points*

#

also I know I am very critical, so I do want to take a step back and say I love what you are doing, AEV is my favorite gamemode

small zealot
#

I’ll admit I didn’t thoroughly test the mutators beyond that they all worked. The matrix point numbers are mostly what I thought sounded good. There’s a reason it’s in a testing phase right now.

abstract arch
#

As long as we're being fair and courteous in our criticisms, that's probably the best way to get a good game mode worked out. With everyone pitching in ideas and pointing out flaws. As long as qople is open to continue developing it anyway.

#

So far I haven't run into anything problematic but I haven't really dabbled with most of the mutations and stuff yet. That's tomorrow's task.

I might ask, I feel like I get a lot of common cards playing this. Is that tweaked from the original gamemode to make the Luck power more necessary? Or am I just very unlucky today?

small zealot
#

The base draw chance is unaffected in progression mode.

abstract arch
#

Interesting. Perhaps I was just in my own head about it, and the added focus made the commons stand out more in my mind. Or I was actually just very unlucky.

weak garnet
#

If I might make a request as someone who occasionally likes to be cheaty, "oops all reds" mutation, where other than New weapons and attack speed boosts, all options are red. (obviously cancelling any matrix point gain)

weak garnet
#

For "progression mode" going forward I think amping the creeper is great, but removing damage from the players base build may be a bit much and definitely both leads to situations im in where I have spent the last like 20 minutes game time at a complete standstill hoping for something that will let me progress the map further
this was done with the previously mentioned X4 exp 1/2 damage mutation*

small zealot
#

The problem is I don't have many good alternatives to reducing damage. Just doubling creeper output is the same as slammer mode, but I can't change creeper output on breeder, so that would make breeder-heavy maps disproportionately easy in progression mode. On top of that, creeper overflow is a problem, especially if the idea is for mutators and slammer mode to be able to add challenge on top of progression mode. Eventually you just can't put more creeper into an area.

I could counteract the creeper cap by reducing both damage and creeper production, but that again runs into the problem of breeder not being affected by any scaling I can do, so then breeder heavy maps become disproportionately hard. And on top of that, it causes problems with the creeper sim, I'd maybe want to scale gravity to keep challenge the same, creeper depth numbers would be way off to what people expect, and you end up with a lot of complexity for an imperfect solution.

Just cutting damage isn't exactly a perfect solution, but it's very simple to do, just "mulattr/all/shot_damage/0.5" in my upgrade system. It's pretty close to the difficulty increase from slammer, without also doubling the amount of creeper you have to destroy and give XP. Plus, the point of progression mode is exactly for it to feel very different from the non-progression gameplay, and I think this achieves it. Maybe some of the numbers may need to be tweaked, the scaling buff reduced, and possibly a bit of an XP buff can be made behind the scenes to offset the reduced damage, but the point of the mode is that "difficulty is greatly increased, and some levels may even be impossible at first." That leaves room for the meta progression and matrix builds to become more of a focus as you collect more points.

zinc yoke
#

I was definitely confused at first about the damage output, but I like it, fwiw

stoic geyser
#

Bug: If I choose the "pick two artifacts, but you can't choose which ones", then ban one of the choices, I'm stuck getting only one choice on normal level ups.

sour mist
#

Appreciate this new progression mode, after some initial confusion as to how to enable it.
Lack of copy/paste code is understandable if frustrating - caused me an issue as pressing my @ symbol on my keyboard apparently reads in-game as ", so one import code for me hit an issue until I spotted that.
Help menus could do with a bit more clarity around getting matrix points - I was initially worried I'd be slamming my head against a brick wall with early fails due to the 0.5x multiplier on damage, until I found I got some matrix points from levels even on a failure.
Given the matrix points on just levels, it does seem that the mutators that give +1 or +2 points on a win for a map-wide difficulty buff aren't worth it? If I gain 2 matrix points from a 10-15 minute failed run, the promise of getting +2 more IF I win with something making it yet harder (when presumably I'll be getting even more points from just levels on a win) seems muted

high pebble
#

I used that glass modifier for some "free" points initially by just not being as aggressive. Didn't use darklings since those prefer smashing into creeper. I also honestly didn't realize I was so much weaker until several replays in when I saw my damage number had a mysterious 0.5x.

I was managing slammer with a couple matrix points, and am now able to do slammer+glass+creeper+++ for several extra points.
||I have focused completely on XP gain and have that maxed now||

I saw the codes don't include N or P to avoid default pause keybind issues, but the code can include a capital E and shift+E is the default editor open prompt. Also, is the longer code just keeping track of the matrix layout? It seems like a lot of characters attached for something that doesn't need obfuscated, so I'm guessing there's more to it.

small zealot
#

The longer code just keeps track of the matrix layout. It's an extra 11 characters, since I can encode 6 of the 64 matrix squares into 1 character. The codes are essentially just using a base64 encode, with a different character set. It's not exactly "obfuscated," but the "value" of each character is shifted with each spot in the code to prevent cases where you end up with sections of "WWWWWWWWW" or whatever and it becomes hard to count and keep track of where you are in entering the code.

The uppercase E is tricky, since I can't really change the character set at this point without invalidating codes.

small zealot
#

Also, so I can get a feel for the balance of matrix point costs, how many points do people using progression mode have at this point, and how do people feel about the speed of getting new upgrades? I intended for it to take a long time to max everything, but not be too grindy to get enough points to get a good number of options for builds, so currently it takes around 2100 points to fill the matrix, but most of that is spent on later upgrades.

zinc yoke
#

I have like 1 and a quarter bingos worth and haven't touched the modifiers yet.
I never use the long code, it is too tedious for me at the moment.

high pebble
#

I've probably spent too much time and reached 321. Initial matrix point gain felt fine, and after several I could get ~15/run which was a bit more than 1 upgrade per win (and maybe 15 minutes average completion so 1 point/minute?). But is now slowed down to less 1 per win and I can only imagine it gets even slower from here.

slow otter
sour mist
#

Similar issue, it seems that the # symbol is shift+3 in the game's keyboard symbols, whilst it's the key just left of Enter on my keyboard 😄 Ah well, what a nuisance the game uses a different keyboard!

waxen heron
waxen heron
#

So game crashes on this map happen after you die usually, and the lancer still gets caught on land but because there is no permanent land you can use the lathe and unstick it. But I can see it will be a problem on maps with unlatheable land

waxen heron
#

Another item of interests for the Dev's. A guardian maker with no mods or artifacts is Range 45, AC depth 1.5 Dam Radius 1.75 and delay of 10. I then max out in progression mode Reroll and add the bottom and top left blocks for +3 damage and +1 speed, Stats now for maker again no mods or artifacts is Range 45, AC Depth 0.7875 (1.5 X0.525), Damage Radius 1.7675 (1.75x1.01) and Fire Delay 9.8039 (10x0.9804), These numbers don't make sense considering that the additions are supposed to enhance the weapon. In game when you get general damage increase it is applied to the AC Depth, so AC depth should not have dropped. Speed and radius seem to be correct. Checking Powers Damage should increase by 5 but I am guessing here as I am not sure what is meant by level. Is it for every 1 block I buy in the matrix or is it every time I level up in the actual game? Either way I don't think my AC Depth should be cut in 1/2, I think it should be increased by 1/2. I have also checked the Swordfish, And damage was cut in half as well.

high pebble
# small zealot Progression mode halves all your damage, and increases creeper scaling. It’s mea...

Well, the damage being cut in half is because progression mode is made more difficult by default (see replied message). So with +5 damage it should be a 0.5x1.05 multiplier which looks like what you have.

I can't remember if it ever specifically says damage is cut in half or if it only mentions that progression mode is initially more difficult (or impossible) at first. But there does seems to be a common confusion about the damage getting debuffed. I'm wondering if it'd look better to just "lie" about the stats in game and not include the 0.5 multiplier in the GUI explicitly despite the effect existing. You'd notice you're weaker compared to default, but might be less likely to think it's your damage being slashed instead of, say, the creeper having more density or defense

waxen heron